How I Learned To Stop Fighting Myself

- Man, I was so self-abusive. I was (beep) in brutal being in my head. I was emotionally shut down doing whatever was not the acceptable thing. I ripped that open when I said, okay, I don't have to be who I think I am. Sitting quietly, watching the voice in my head and learning how to react differently to it. Not believe it, not buy into it. - How does one simply from the meditation cushion be like, I'm getting an adventure capital? You can evolve consciousness and make money at the same time. The root of the problem that I wanted to work on was helping people understand themselves, to love themselves. (upbeat music) - Welcome to the Art of Accomplishment where we explore living the life you want with enjoyment and ease. Today we're doing a little bit different of an episode. I'm just going to have a fireside chat with Joe and we're just going to learn more about him and get really personal with it. So I hope you enjoy this episode. - So Joe, there's a whole bunch of personal questions I've been wanting to ask you and I'm sure a lot of other people are curious to and I just love to do an episode where I just ask you questions about you. - Okay, cool, that sounds like I'm scared. (laughing) - Excellent, great, great. So just to start with, I'm curious at you know, you often contrast your upbringing with kind of where you are now. And where you are now is you're clearly on some sort of path, you are very intentional about your self-development. And at some point in the past, you presumably weren't. And I'm curious like what was that point of transition to where you recognize, oh, I'm on a path? - Yeah, that's a good question. And I actually would, it doesn't resonate with me that I'm currently on a path, which is interesting. So there was this unconscious part, right? Where I was, where I was just living. I didn't particularly know there was a voice in my head. I was interested in things like the parables of Jesus and parables widely and different religions. And I was infatuated with things like the doubtaging. And I think it was like a Fritz Pearl's book where he talked about the upper dog and the underdog that started letting me understand that I had a relationship with myself, which I think is really where the beginning of the path was. And then if it was not fully understood that I was on a path, when I finished a meditation retreat where I had this experience of oneness for eight seconds, then I was like, I am on a path and I am there to get this thing. So there was some kind of awareness that I was into self-development. Once I understood that there was a self that I was interacting with, and then there was like, I am on a path to try to get to a place. - And how old were you around the time of that meditation retreat? How long? - 26. - 26. - College up to 26 was sort of this kind of-- - Yeah. - I am interested in seeing through the self. - Yeah, I'm interested. Well, it started with I'm interested in like getting back to that state. And then it just became, oh, it's really self-explanatory. - That state was experienced when you were 26. - Yes, correct. - Prior to that, you were like kind of exploring what it's like to be a self of it. And then you had that meditation retreat. - And then there was like a very clear path. And then there was the moment when that, oh, that thing that I'm trying to get back to is always here, and that kind of recognition that's so hard to describe happened. And then there was a way in which the path kind of fell apart. - Yeah. So you mentioned you had this experience of oneness and then you were hung up for a while trying to get back to that experience of oneness. I'm curious, like for that one and then others, what are some other hangups? What are the, what are some of the things that you've kept hitting on your turns on the corkscrew for your own development, your own self-exploration? - Yeah, I mean, they're all the like the core issues from childhood. They don't go away, you know? I feel like I can almost, everything that's causing me pain, I've been able to find some way in which it relates to my childhood. Relates to something that I learned early on or an earlier trauma, like I can find that. And big ones have been, you know, not being seen abandonment. Anger was a huge one for like 10 years. Just, I was accessing it or. - Getting angry at people, like putting my anger on other people, holding other people responsible for my stuff, like uncontrolled anger or very constricted anger. So I was just a dick. Those are all things. And the breakthroughs almost always came the same way, which is welcoming an emotional experience, bringing my attention to it. Having faith that it can change, like knowing that this will be different over time. The grief is a big part of the process of all of those shifts, like really being. There's a moment where you kind of see the whole thing and you're like, oh man, I didn't have to be living like this and this grief comes and if you don't feel that grief, there's a moment that usually comes in every one of them where you're like, who the hell will I be if that happens? If I let that in, nobody will be able to relate to me anymore. I'll never be like that moment. And at the beginning, you're like, I don't want to feel grief, I don't want to dissolve and nobody can recognize me. And now, as you go through it a couple of times, you're like, yeah, cool, there's that grief moment, there's that moment of, who am I going to be at the end of this thing? - Yeah, you've mentioned how it took you like 14 years to be able to cry. And I'm curious, so you got a degree in psychology, which at the time you took those classes psychology and academia looked a certain way, and we could get into that. And you are doing non-dual practices meditation, which can look a certain way. You could have like a neck up awakening and just be non-dual but not feel what's going on here. But something that really strikes me about this work is how embodied it is, how about the emotional fluidity on the muscular and nervous system level it is. And a lot of your work has been influenced by, like we don't often mention a lot of the sources, like Alexander Loewen, you mentioned sometimes. - Yes. - Reich, like you did some Reichy and breath work for seven years, you've mentioned that a few times. How did you get exposed to and really take and run with the really deeply embodied physical aspects of the work? - Yeah, well, the first thing that happened where I got really lucky was that after the, the kind of the head awakening, I had the immediate recognition that I thought that that was going to be an end and it wasn't an end. It was just the beginning, evolution doesn't end. The path ended because I didn't have anywhere to go anymore. The non-duality and meditation that was, I was very head-oriented, my body was very unsafe because I was told, taught not to care about my body, not to listen to my feelings, not to cry. So all of that, the only access point really was my head. So, and I happened to live with a woman who was highly into the embodied emotional thing because she was an actress, Tara, and she learned all that. So I also was exposed to it. I knew there was something over in that corner, but the first thing that happened was I was in downtown one day and this person walked by and I was like, what the fuck happened to you? Which is where I found most of the modalities was, I saw a significant change in somebody and I went, whatever it is, you're doing, tell me what it is, I'm just gonna go do that thing. And that person had done reiki and breath work with a woman who's not dead, Michelle. And Michelle was the person who taught it. And so I was just like, yep, sign me up. And so that was sitting in her room naked on a bed, breathing, and she would push on me. She would literally just like, like I'd come out bruised often, and she would look at whatever my muscles were holding and she'd push and I remember one time, it was like three years in for you. I did this for seven years. Three or four years in, I vomited. And she's like, good, you're almost releasing. I'm like, I just vomited, Michelle, come on. Like that's a release, she's like this. She had her own issues, but she was just like, incredibly emotionally fluid. There was, she had no, she said what she wanted to say, there was no filter in her world, you know. And so muskarily, I like very much changed because of that work and a deep embodiment came in that like feeling all the emotions was really important. And breath work generally, there's kinds of, there's breath works that you can do to do lots of things as dissociator, dissociator or increase your, you know, immune system, there's all sorts of things, but a lot of it will release some emotions. And so if you can find one that like, fully releases emotions, so that's one of the things that I did. I also found a worker who did, was really into lowens work and every therapy session, it was like a therapist, but it was, and every session was a physical. release of some sort and so that really helped me get embodied. So there was just I had some great teachers who who really but but the calling was because of Tara because Tara I saw that there was something that I was missing and and I also saw like oh I could access peace but I but joy wasn't there. Yeah. I was at peace but I wasn't in love with the world. So when you guys met like tell me about what your lifestyles were at that time. You were you were your 30s. No no we were 20 26 right around that time frame in San Francisco San Francisco artists I Tara will tell you very quickly I had a bowl cut and I look like a complete nerd. Yeah that was a lot. Even even a worst bowl cut. That was like kind of like yeah this is complete bowl cut. I would somehow I stuck around. I was in a rock and roll band I was playing music and I was very much like fuck the system fuck money fuck business. I had a chip on my shoulder I had something to prove I was emotionally shut down I dressed in a way that I could be anywhere you know where I could just fit in in the corners of a business meeting or at an artist's thing. So I I was going through the world collecting as many experiences as I could. You know I really I would drive try to find that like weird bar in the middle of nowhere and talk to people who were like actual cowboys. I mean I remember I remember like this would be a typical story in those days. I'm driving home from LA and there's this guy with kind of dreadlocks hitchhiking I pick him up. He's from Uruguay. We talk about Uruguay and then he's like I'm going to San Francisco I'm like cool but we're not going to go the direct way. We're just going to like I'm like this is a big valley the central valley so we don't we can just take any road look I'll show you and so like we and he got a little scared but then we saw a trailer that said cold beer Friday Saturday Sunday walked in all cowboys back in the day when they you know today it's like oh cowboys and some hippies getting together it's like not a big thing back then it was like enemies and I'm looking as neutrals possible bowl cut Joe guy T-shirt and like pants and and we walk in and the music there's literally playing music and the music they literally stop playing and they look at this guy and they look at me and I'm okay and I was like used to being putting myself into these situations so I just like it's like hey I was just hit I was just driving up from LA and this guy was hitchhiking he's from Uruguay do you all know where Uruguay is next thing you know we're drinking beers in this trailer it was literally a mobile home trailer that we're having the the barren and I'm talking to this guy who's a cowboy who literally only owns a car and a saddle and he's telling me stories about what it's like to be out he just goes like out in the open with some cows for multiple days on top at a time weeks at a time and then comes in stays with the woman his girlfriend or not sleeps on the side of the road whatever he needs to do drinks some beer and then off he goes again and we're talking about like how much whiskey the owner of the ranch gives him you know per day or whatever but like that was like just a really like that was my experience and I was constantly finding the most obscure people places that I could and understanding them like hanging out with homeless people or hanging out with billionaires like I would find these little niches I literally there's one time when we were digging holes to understand wetlands in Yuma, Arizona and within one day I hung out with a homeless person named Lucky who had been living and jumping on rails and living homeless for 15 years and the next day I'm hanging out with one of the Waltons and like hanging out with like these from from Walmart and hanging out with billionaires it was like that was that was my reality it was just I was trying to find I was trying to understand humanity in any way that I could yeah so you mentioned you mentioned before on the podcast too that you don't like cooked fish and I heard once a story that seems to be I used to not I used to not like fish at all yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah it's so and this seems related to the finding the weird nooks and crannies of experience and I like what made you not like just experience with fish for some time fish story um okay so I'm I'm finished with college I'm just out of college and I just read a book called black elk speaks which was a medicine man Lakota medicine man and in it he talks about the sun ritual about how the endurance of pain and understanding the endurance of pain gives you an appreciation for life and and my buddy had said hey I'm going up to Alaska to butcher fish working at canary do you want to come with me and roll hitchhike up there and I was like that's my son that's my son ritual and um and so and I needed some money so I felt like oh this would be a great way to do it and then so my buddy and I hitchhiked up there great great like one story after another meeting freezing individuals um and learning about humanity on the way up but but when I we're flying into it's in the Bristol Bay which is that big bay right before the illusion islands and we're toghia not kodiac toghiaq alaska which is where we were and and so we're flying in and my buddy said you know this work is like digging a ditch 16 hours a day but doing these fish I was like okay you know and we land and the guys like the septic is gone you're digging ditches and we literally dug ditches 16 hours a day only to find out that they had a backhoe and all that was caught there just warming us up so that we could do the work and when we did the work it was like kicking you down the steps at the temple exactly what only find out that the work was a lot harder than digging the ditches and so and we would work you know we slept maybe six hours a night I when we finished we literally slept for 36 hours straight it was I remember I got injured so I had to go to a hospital and I came back and I got in a little bit of sleep and I remember looking at my friend talking to another one of my friends one friend was drooling and the other friend wasn't noticing okay it was like that level of fatigue that was going on and so during that time we had all sorts of parlor tricks that we would play one of them was gut tag where how many fish guts could you pile into somebody else's like slickers without them noticing so as it turns out I didn't really like eating fish after that it took me until Terra to get into sushi and I and now I can even eat mostly a lot of cooked fish but it took me a while to get there that's how that's happened but it was all that I wanted to collect as many experiences as I possibly could and what made what turned on that bug in you for collecting experiences out of that I think I think in retrospect it was all about trying to understand humanity for whatever one of my passions has always been to understand people how did that interest get kicked off I don't know I don't know if it was born that I was told it at a young age I remember being told at a really young age or you'll be a psychologist when you grow up just because I always had this interest in humanity I always had yeah so I don't I don't know particularly like I can't think of a story as to how that happened it just it just was always there for me and I think if I had to guess it would be like trying to read my father when when like part of survival is that when your father walks in the room he's in an alcoholic you better understand that shit really quick or you're going to get in trouble also recognizing you grew up in various places including Iran and like you left Iran as the as the revolution was happening around it's not Arabian whales in England and Switzerland and yeah and so that also probably had something because like seeing cultures completely differently like right yeah I mean you've got to see this yeah you go to another culture and you see how you learn so much more about your own culture by seeing it in contrast to another one yes yeah yeah and you get to see oh all of this stuff that's all choice that's all culture yeah all of this stuff that's humanity I got to hang out with a lot of tribes during this time and at least like six or seven in America and at least two or three outside of America and and you got to see wow a lot of this is choice a lot of what we think is right or wrong is actually just cultural and then it just really fired me up as to like what's what's what's human right like what is what is what is the yeah what is the essence what are we essentially what are we essentially yeah and so that's yeah so that's that was my 20s was until my late 20s like 27 26 that's that was everything was just about gathering as many experiences as I could gather from like sailing into heady to hanging out with homeless people for a week or whatever it was I was just like doing whatever I could going out into the middle of the woods and with nobody I was just gathering experiences and it was an investigation into myself and into humanity but not in a way that was like any kind of path it was yeah which is probably probably really useful because I I didn't have an agenda right you're just broadly exploring collecting data yeah exactly yeah following yeah what were you following you were felt sounds like you're following collecting experiences yeah it's on my interest that's following my wants right before I had like a way that I had to be right and then somewhere in that that's the other thing that kicked in is like all of a sudden there was this way I had to be like that that was as far as your question earlier about what was my pain and man I was so self-abusive I cannot tell you how self-abusive I was fucking brutal being in my head there was just like no and I remember like the first time I'm in my I think I'm like 25 I'm doing my first fast on my own I just decided it was a good idea to go out and fast on my own in in the woods in this old hermit's cabin that I had heard about and I remember literally seen that my brain would not like there was no fucking winning that I was just like what the hell this thing in my head makes it so I cannot fucking win and and even and it was like and I'd be like okay I can't fucking win it's like yeah you can't win you got to try harder I was like what the fuck is going on sounds like a badass a trip oh my god oh my god that was my life that was every day for me that was it was yeah it was brutal I I don't know obviously I can't know what other people's voice in their head is like but my mind was severe it was it wasn't you should kill yourself which we we see people with that from time to time but it was definitely there was no doing right there is no way that I was not going to be told I was wrong or bad how is it that you had that incredibly self-abuse of voice in the head critical no way to win and yet you're following your wants exploring the world with all this open curiosity and wonder for humanity how do those juxtapose I think I don't know exactly but I think that the reason that that happened was because I was I always think about this as I was so lucky to be born in the black sheep I had to be put in the role of the black sheep so I was the rebel I was the one who wasn't going to do the things that everybody was supposed to do I wasn't going to get the job I wasn't going to do what my parents thought I wasn't a authority shouldn't be trusted so I'm not doing that I'm gonna go do my own thing so I was going to the weird like the first thing was Taoist studies and Buddhist I was going to the thing that you're not supposed to back then like there was there wasn't a lot of Buddhism there wasn't America there's a lot of Christianity so the taboo thing is yes exact Buddhism and you're going there I was just doing whatever was not the acceptable thing that was that was absolutely my modus operandi it was just anyway that I can look feel like a rebel and and be above and despise those people everything that was okay was like that was mainstream mainstream was evil yeah how do you go from like bucking the mainstream to being Mr. B authentic and who you are happy joy yeah all that's yeah I mean it's like crazy I literally I will probably tear up thinking about you could call it learning how to love yourself or you can call itself discovery you could call it I mean for me because I had so much abuse there was a lot of my time was literally just not reacting to the voice in my head like bringing awareness to the voice in my head it was a slow process there's a lot of tools that can move you quicker it's a necessary process I think you can't not do that and and end up but it's it's very much it was the very first part of my journey that was a real part of the journey was sitting quietly watching the voice in my head and learning how to react differently to it not believe it not buy into it not do the thing that it's said to do realize my reaction to it I ripped that open when I said okay I don't have to be who I think I am I I can I can die or be find out what's underneath this stuff there's a lot of this freedom in it and so it kind of is this reinforcing loop and I think that's something that's maybe the most powerful thing we can do for anybody in all of our courses is like just let them see it's possible just like like give them that experience of like oh some part of my ego I don't like calling it that I don't call it that very often but letting some part of my identity drop away and the freedom on the other side of that and so I'm curious how how did that translate into doing what you do in business how did you find the entry point into bringing that into so such a high pressure high high achievement yeah environment so I think there's a couple things one of the one of the few ways I felt connected with my father was talking about business he would come and talk about business and I would learn from him I had that same connection with you know not with us mate but and I'd like love talking about business together so there was some sort of like solve problem solving thing that I really liked about business and I thought about it a lot and so and even when I was rebelling against stuff I'd be like how do I make money and I'd be like oh and I do this complicated business thing to make enough money so I could meditate you know and so I wasn't trying to make money I was just trying to buy time and and so but so I always kind of had one thumb in business I you know did international stock lending at a young age and I did legal and compliance for a bank at at a young age and so I just I always have my hand in it and then again my family came along and it was time to have a family like I was clear that it's time to have a kid and you got to make some money and so I just was like how do I make money and that's when I like moved into venture capital and and so it was really for having a family that I made my I would I had no interest in making money before that I was 35 years old and I was how did you simply move into venture capital like how does one simply from the meditation cushion be like I'm getting an venture capital I was doing large scale yeah even we're doing I was doing large scale video art and and they're and the only people by large scale video are really wealthy people and so one of these very wealthy people that we were just talking about money and I gave them a couple of pieces of advice around gold at the time and oil at the time and what was going to happen and it made him a lot of money and this was just happening while I'm doing the started selection I've been thinking a lot about what's happening with gold and oil and and this was at a time with both of those two things spiked and he's like well come and work for me and I said nah I'm doing art I'm good and he said well if you could do anything what would you want to do and so I went home and I thought about for three months and then I called him up and I said well the change I want to see in the world is more like basically how do we as a as humanity heal conscious in a consciousness way because I'd been meditating like how do I bring this into the world and then the other thing I'm really interested in is how to help the environment so he gave me some capital to do both of those two things and so I spent 12 years starting organizations for helping kids with consciousness and then I spent the same 12 years doing venture in and environmental and we specifically focused on agriculture because that's where nobody was playing and where most of the resources were being used I have both of those these evolved like consciousness for nonprofits and environmental for venture capital I think there was something that you know what I saw in the environmental world was that people used to think in the 70s you could be an environmentalist or you could be a businessman and you couldn't be both but somewhere in the 90s people were like oh yeah you can be both and still to this day you can be both and I was like that same thing is gonna happen with consciousness that you can become a conscious like you can evolve consciousness and make money at the same time or capitalism can be a force for helping humanity heal become themselves understand themselves and so I would say That's how. I also noticed the other thing that happened was what I noticed is that in the environmental space that the number one problem was human ego it wasn't there was plenty of technology that could whatever environmental problems we have we have the technology to solve them by far easily all we need is humanity to be human. Like all we need is like egos to stop doing what egos do and so I realized that the root of the problem that I wanted to work on was helping people understand themselves to love themselves because that was what's probably going to solve all the rest of the problems that's the core all these problems came out of human consciousness. So human consciousness shifts and there's actually like some pretty cool studies and thesis is that show like if you're trying to change a complex system that involves humans the first thing you do is change the story the thoughts of the human. So how did that end up transitioning to working with leaders. So I was a bad investor as it turns out what I didn't understand is what you're looking for is an entrepreneur who doesn't need you that's what you're actually looking for and my background was to be needed you know like that's what gave me some sense of validation and I see this a lot in the business world today that being useful showing that I can contribute was a really important part of my identity and so I would pick things that needed me which is a really bad way to invest venture money what you really want to pick is people who don't fucking need you who find you to be a nuisance. So because of that a lot of the investments we're making were working and so the only thing I could do was to like coach them on changing consciousness and so through that whole process I just got into the coaching world of like oh here's all the stuff I've wanted to buy myself and here's how I see that applied to business and here's how a business tool if you put a tilt of self awareness into it actually becomes a more powerful business tool I didn't know if it would but I kept on doing the experiments because I knew I needed that that's kind of self development at business had to be a form of self development for me or I was going to lose interest in it and what happened was that enough people enough people started knowing about me and then that other people you got to you got to get a coach by this person and so next day I know I was in Silicon Valley and so famous you know rich people were like hey will you coach me and then there was just more people than to coach than I had time for and then I started doing these small little groups which you were part of the third one and then at some point I was like this is my calling. I remember you know people thinking like saying to me oh you could should become a teacher or something way earlier than that and I remember constantly going no like one I was really scared that I saw a lot of teachers get stuck like when they start teaching they stopped evolving because they got cemented into this place and there was like I used to talk about it like they're on the side of a mountain holding onto a rope helping everybody get to where they are but they're not climbing still so there's that and also I was just like I was like I have not discovered way like I don't understand myself enough to teach because I saw a whole bunch of people teaching that clearly didn't have the understanding and I saw them doing damage and but that so I just didn't I just didn't do it for years and I'm yeah many people were like oh you should teach I'm like and then it happened literally happened because I need I need to make my investments work yeah I don't thought about it that way so you did all those to get back to Capitalism exactly Capitalism yes so in short Capitalism has made me what I am today yes so that that's that's how it happened and I mean and the journey just continues right the it becomes more subtle that's the interesting thing is it it becomes more subtle like right now there's just there's a bracket like the business is growing all of a sudden now we have lots more people coming to us and and there's a good chance that this is just the beginning of the beginning right like and I realize and I see how that has like a lot of destructive capacity if I hold that in a way that's if I hold that too firmly or with too much identity but more importantly it's almost I don't know how to say this like this is on the edge of my understanding but there's I realize that somebody like a Donald Trump or a Sam Altman or a Bono or whatever whoever the Bono is of today they hold like a lot of people's energy they hold you know there's a lot of attention being directed at them and it's pretty amazing like it's pretty easy to feel what I'm talking about if you just imagine being on stage with like 150,000 people like yeah cheering you know it's like well like that's just got to be such an intense experience but you know there's some version of that that happens when 10 million people watch you on YouTube or whatever that thing it like there's this like this thing and and I see the way that a lot of people hold that really like doesn't work out for them in the long run or our held by it or there's the term audience capture for yeah you know you to the extent that you're not aware of yourself you don't notice how you're being influenced by the crowd by the way you're seen by the way by the energy holding you yeah as you ascend into a leadership position or descend into it yeah exactly and so that and so the thing that I'm realizing is like up until now the way that the journey has been is it's become less me through dissolution meaning the recognition that it the teaching isn't mine it's coming through me that it's not personal that it's that it's like a gift and that's all it's always kind of been how I've been able to see more clearly through the process and be a better conduit for what wants to move and when I hear you say that it I don't hear you say that in a way that's deflecting like responsibility like oh it's just happening through me right yeah yeah it's not my no there's some though I don't hold responsibility the same way but yes like it feels like your present in it yeah how do you experience that like just to flip the question from an observation to a question for you how how do you hold this reality this this way of seeing whatever's happening is moving through you without uh without bypassing without using it as a way to avoid the like sense of gravity that it can't have like that you are actually having an impact yeah up until now it has been or you know about a year ago up until a year ago it was very much like it allowed me to be more present because it wasn't about my ego because it wasn't about personal it was like, it's like, one-ness was kind of at the forefront. And what I'm getting to now is what I'm realizing is that actually the personal has to be re-incorporated back into it for me to be able to be healthy if this thing continues to grow. And so what that looks like is on one level, it's like, yeah, it's me doing this. It's like, it's not not me. It's like, it's me doing this. And there's like, but the other way, the most profound way that I felt it recently is I was at a hot springs, and two things happened at the hot springs. The first thing that happened at the hot springs is I woke up out of bed, I'm shirtless, and I'm wandering to the bathroom, and I'm half awake, and I'm like, and somebody's like, Joe Hudson, and I'm like, I'm like, yeah, I took your course, and I was like, goodness, like it was like this moment, and there was like, and it was like six women, and they were all, oh, the course, I heard about your course, and you're like, this whole thing, I'm like, I just want to go out of my room, I'll be alone. So there was that moment that happened, and then the other moment that happened in the hot springs was there was this guy, and he was just hanging out, and we talked for a couple minutes, and he just, talked about this one moment in his life when he was at a Walmart and he helped somebody interpret one of their dreams and it made a difference in her life and he just started weeping. And I'm like, you can't do that if it's not personal, right? And so it's like taking it personal in that way also, right? Like it's nowadays, it's at least daily. Now it's maybe even getting twice a day that I get a DM or a handwritten note the other day, type notes of people not knowing me showing gratitude, just needing to express gratitude for what the work has done in their lives. That's like constantly happening now. Like I constantly am seeing and being told about somebody whose life has changed and to be intimate with that experience is incredibly personal, to allow that to break my heart. I know that to allow that in on a personal level and the intimate level is going to be required for me not to become dismissive of people. To not there's this whole thing about power that like as you have more power, you lose empathy. There's like a whole bunch of studies on it. For me not to lose that empathy, it actually requires me to allow that to break my heart on a consistent basis like this guy in this hot spring. And so there's that's like and that's so now instead of the the freedom coming from like a disillusion of self, it's almost more like a permeability of self. It's like it's becoming so large that there's more space and it's such an interesting thing. And I was talking to somebody who had like six on one of the podcasts I was doing one of the six had six million followers and he's like yeah I know what you're talking about. Like the people who are in those places, they can feel the ones who are going to survive it. Like the ones who are like I want to be like you when you're doing like I'm doing six million people like they can feel they like they can tell you what it's like to have that whatever you want to call it energy directed at them or to have that. And I want to call it weight because it's not weight but just to be I think it's like a focal point. It's like being a focal point like that. It's just and and how to do that in a way that actually allows me to not compartmentalize myself, stay in myself, stay present. Yeah, it's a great life. I like I keep on thinking. I said it once. I think I was talking to audio audio shanti audio shanti and he said house life. I said I had dream come true that I never thought could happen. I never even imagined the possibility of it. Thanks everybody for listening. This was a different format than we typically do. If you really liked it, let us know. We'll do more of these little longer format fireside chats. If you want to hear more, check us out on YouTube at Art of Accomplishment or you can find us on Spotify, all your other podcast platforms. The podcast is hosted by myself and Joe Hudson and Mungie Kelly is our producer and this episode is edited by Reasonable Volume.