telling kids where water comes from, telling kids, you know, how the house is built, you know, I think the more we have these conversations with our kids, the more that we show them the different opportunities that are available in life, it has to be part of the conversation. Hi, I'm Andrew Brown. You're listening to the Law Star of the Skill Trades podcast, a show that shines the spotlight on careers in the skill trades that are high paying honorable, rewarding, and fulfilling. The trades are the backbone of the economy that keep us running and without them, our world would cease to exist. Today, we have a special guest, Melissa Hazelwood, of Ferguson. Welcome, Melissa, to the show. Hey, Andrew, thanks for having me. It is great for you to be on the show. I was thinking about a teacher and his name is Edvin Jarrett. He teaches young kids about plumbing, carpentry, electrical work, maystery work every day at a elementary school named Mayfair in Pennsylvania. And I see he livestreams almost every day on Instagram. And you're seeing the kids using all these different tools and you're like, wow, there's really a teacher out there that's engaged with students who want to learn at a young age. How important do you feel is it to educate these kids about the opportunity in the trades, especially so young? First, I want to say, Evan is a remarkable teacher. And what he ignites in his classroom is just off the charts. I had an opportunity to go visit with him and his students. And he calls it Castle Jarrett. And it really and truly is. And those kids are so engaged. And just they're having the time of their life in school no less. You know, I think it's just one of those things where getting in front of kids earlier and educating them about the skilled trades is, you know, when you think about the young kids and the kindergarten for a second, third grade, it's just about igniting their curiosity, giving them opportunities to play with their hands, play with water, get dirty, and just boost their imagination. And then as they progress through that K through 12 continuum once they hit middle school, it's okay, here's some hands on projects, here's some opportunities. This is what you could be if you were to pursue a career. I think at Ferguson, we really try to address that K through 12 continuum. And it's, you know, how can we get in front of kids earlier and how can we get in front of parents and tell them, hey, these are opportunities for your kids. Not every kid is destined for college and that's okay. It's not a bad path. There are two tremendous paths for kids in life and, you know, really just showing them at a young age. What is possible makes all the difference? You know, he's also called, I guess, a K the dope teacher? Yes. Oh, yes. Yeah. And he constantly pops up on my LinkedIn. But more so, he's got a much larger following on Instagram. Just what he's doing is just outstanding. And he's been recognized, you know, on the media. And it's teachers like that that really engage kids and it's all about trying to get them at a young age because obviously there's so many stigmas about the trades that really kids are feeling like they're more engaged to go to college versus, you know, working with their hands. And that's one thing that I do is just to give kids least an opportunity as another option in their path versus going to college path. Because for me, I was only given one option, go to college and it honestly did not survey. It did not serve me in any way possible. And I kind of walked around for four years, kind of lost and switched majors about three or four times. If these kids are at least, especially the ones that have that technical spark or have that mechanical ability, they're learning that at a young age that it's okay to work with your hands. Evan's doing that firsthand. Evan breaks every single stereotype in his classroom, right? He's got girls. He's got boys. He's got young kids. He's got older kids. He even works with young adults in the trades. I spent time in his classroom and he's handing these fourth graders blow torches to solder some pipe and it is amazing. But the kids can do what you teach them to do. You know, you always hear kids are little sponges. But in Evan's class, you see it. They soak it in. They do not want to leave. They come in fast and furious, ready to learn. They roll up their sleeves, pull their hair back and grab whatever tool they're doing that day and go to work. And they genuinely did not want to leave his classroom. It was just the best thing that I think I've ever seen. So I would definitely say that Evan is the dopest teacher. We makes it fun and he makes it exciting. And you know, I happen to, you know, I don't know if it was about a couple months ago. I saw explore the trades actually on his podcast and explore the trades for the people who don't know as an organization that is working to get the younger generation into the trades. Kate Semeno is on our foundation, the skilled trades advisory council. And she's done an excellent job, especially with that organization to get kids really interested in trades. And I have these posters that they send out to guidance counselors and schools around the country. I think they have these posters in about 20% of all schools, which is quite amazing. And it shows why consider a career in the trades, the electrician career kit. It's a great way to at least when kids walk into a guidance counselor, they see college, college, college, and then they see these posters. It's like, oh, wait a second. I'm interested in working with my hands and I can make this amount of money. The organization goes to all the trade shows or a lot of trade shows around the country and they do in a great job and kids do in a great job. But I'm very curious about Ferguson and how the skills lab program kind of came about, I guess a couple of years ago, working with, explore the trades and how to get kids into the trades. He tells a little bit about that program. And absolutely. So, you know, one of the things that I don't think you'll find very surprising is we hear from our customers all the time that they can't find kids or they can't find the talent to, you know, run their business much less. I mean, they can't even consider growing their businesses. They can't even find people to handle the work. And, you know, in our country, we're building, we're building and a few years ago Ferguson started out on a quest to really address the skill trades gap. I mean, we spent 20 or 30 years telling every kid, I mean, we told you, right? Andrew, like, go to college. That's the only place you can go. So we knew we had to address this gap to support our customers. I came across Kate and we started having really good conversations, brainstorming, how can we use that expertise of, you know, Ferguson associates? How can we use the expertise of the contractors from the next star network? I mean, she's got ready-made electricians, plumbers, HVAC techs ready to support this. How can we use all of that experience to give kids even more hands-on experience and more opportunities to pursue a career in the trades? Because there are a lot of schools that want these programs, but they're lacking. And so Kate and I, you know, we talked several times and we said, hey, what if we build these labs? What if we take the products and services that Ferguson sells and use the knowledge and experience and mentor opportunities from your organization? We tie them together and we help schools build these labs. It just took off from there. We started as a pilot program in our first year because we, you know, starting something new, we didn't necessarily know how it was going to go. And we had three schools and it just took off from there. I can imagine what it's like to see the faces on, you know, some of these schools that get the sponsorship from Ferguson, that they're going to build a lab and they're going to get X amount of tools and these kids are basically changing their lives. How many students really are in these programs? And what is the actual trade that they're learning? Is it plumbing and HVAC or is it certain trades? We have reached over 2000 students in the three years that we have built or refurbished plumbing and HVAC labs. So right now we're just doing HVAC and plumbing, but Kate, I hope she does it while I'm re-sharing this, if you is going to offer electrical labs this year as well. So, you know, just continuing to grow and to meet the market. What the demands are, what do we have in our back pocket that we can offer and, you know, explore the trades has these three different trades and why not? So I think you're just going to change the trajectory of so many kids' lives and give them the chance to be successful at what they're good at. I love when industry gets involved, you know, especially a tool distributor who's in the business and obviously one of the goals is to make sure that the next generation, they keep it going, whereas HVAC, electrical, plumbing, welding, and making sure that they basically, you're investing in the future of skilled trades. And that's extremely, extremely important and obviously working with an organization like Explore the Trades that is doing an amazing job across the board and getting the awareness out. What does a typical day look like in a skill lab? How many hours are they spending at the end of the skill lab? Do they take a test of some sort to get any type of certification or is it more so of like, it's setting you up to maybe go into a trade school later on or maybe go into an apprenticeship later on? Good question. I think it varies by school. They do have a set curriculum. Most
of the time they're using an NCCER curriculum and it's plumbing one plumbing two HVAC one HVAC two they are working up to be able to become an apprentice so depending on when they start like if they start at the ninth grade level then they would probably be absolutely ready to enter in an apprenticeship outside of high school it's learning on the job training most of them I think receive their OSHA 10 certification so they are getting some safety certifications stackable credentials based on their program so I think it depends on your school school state-to-state what are the different requirements I just had boyd a worship who is the NCCER president on the podcast to handful months ago and you know it's a great organization and what they do especially in the trades the actual lab itself I want to know more about this because I'm super excited that just you know given the audience a little bit more detail in sort of that day to day how do they find instructors to lead those classes is somebody who's already working at the school do they have to bring in somebody new to run a lab I think it's both I think sometimes you have some successful contractors that have the skill set to offer multiple trades at an existing school Evan Jared is case in point right there he could teach almost any trade some schools that are just starting from scratch and you know we want to offer plumbing this is our first foray into the skilled trades you know offering it to our students they would have to go out and find a certified plumber to come in and that is willing to teach the course so yeah I think it just it differs by school are there any success stories that have sort of popped up over the last year or so we could say like wow this person didn't know anything about this particular trade and now has come out of the program and wants to be plumber wants to you know be in HVAC any success stories out there that you want to share you know not one sticks out too too much but I think the number of students that have had the opportunity to talk with giving them that accessibility to the trades knowing that it has just changed the course of their lives I talked to one young lady in Evan's classroom and I think she was in the seventh grade and she's I think they were transitioning over to the high school in the eighth grade and she was just saying how she was going to pursue plumbing and she wanted to become a plumber and it wasn't even on her radar before that you hear that all the time there's some that you know don't necessarily want to pursue a trade and but now they have a skill set that they can leverage for the rest of their lives I think it just fairies but you know just knowing that in three years simply doing what we do every day as a business we've reached 2000 students 2000 students and we're just going to keep going and keep working with organizations like explore the trades to make inroads yeah it's about making impact and in what you said 2000 students those 2000 students were impacted where maybe they just never worked with their hands before and now they've been shown a trade which turns into either lifelong skills or can turn into a lifelong career about maybe opening up your own business one day it just shows the opportunities that are available and I just I really love that it's done at an early age and I'm a big believer about at least showing kids that what the possibilities are and even at the younger age even if you're just reading books to kids and it's about plumbing you know this a couple of different examples about people who have books and I'm just thinking of a woman by the name of plumber page page knows it's like 22 23 years old she wrote a book about plumbing but she reads them to younger kids who can understand about what it's like to work with your hands how water moves in your house how pipes work and just showcasing that to them gets their juices flowing and on top of it shows parents as well who may not know much about the trade of what's possible about working with your hands and then opens up the conversation about hey when my kid gets older maybe there is an opportunity because the money is there with all the men and women retiring over the next five or ten years about 40 percent it leaves a huge gap but now parents might be interested are you seeing parents as sort of an area where a young individual might be interested but the parent is saying no that's not for my kid have you seen anything like that throughout the program or they've been sort of open-minded and yeah so throughout this particular program I haven't had any direct access to the parents but I think that's what we've seen for the last 20 or 30 years right skilled trades are great but you don't mean my kid right and so I think you know I hear a CEO talking about this all the time he's very very passionate about the skilled trades will always tell you we need to be having these kitchen table conversations so how are the parents how are we equipping the parents to talk to their children and I think that's the next step with all this right how are we giving guidance counselors and parents the resources to truly you know talk to their kids and to understand that this is a tremendous career option your kid is coming out of high school with a ready-made job that he's going to get paid for to train and while he's learning the specific trade he or she they will have no debt they can work and they're on track if they want to to own their own business I think the trades embrace that entrepreneurial spirit that you can own your own business you could really build something special for yourself in the long term and I can't stress you know I think I'm still paying for my own grad school debt these kids are coming out with zero debt and they're just setting themselves up for success you know it's interesting what you said about your CEO kind of being passionate about this when this program was sort of brought up did it make its way all the way sort of the top of like Ferguson's making this initiative in these labs and sort of what was the response from upper management you know I think that's why we've been able to be so successful in our Ferguson cares which is our community engagement program I think that's why we've been so successful is our culture of service and community engagement and particularly with the skilled trades starts at the top Kevin is so passionate about the work that we're doing and it just filters down and we employ over 30,000 associates I would say it's closer to 35,000 associates and every single one of them wants to give back to the community and engage particularly in the skilled trades I mean it's what we do every day as a business and it just makes sense yeah I mean if you have passionate people especially at the top who want to see the industry grow and just have this it's more mission driven that you want to see the trades you know keep going and get the amount of people and I do the same thing in my own business called tool fetch we're industrial distributor in I've been supporting people in the trades for about 24 years and really with my journey and why I kind of got into this is that I was a high tech guy and I knew nothing about so to the trades and I had a a life changing event for me where I found myself on ground zero 9/11 a few days after the world trade center incident working back to back with firefighters EMS and trades people and that whole incident of just being down there and seeing what the people in the trades did to find survivors something that had the right protection on just changed my trajectory instead of going into IT I started a tool in equipment business with my brother to really support the men and women in the trades welding and carpentry and electrical for me it's been mission passion all 24 years behind the scenes you know handful years ago I started doing social media and popping up and and really supporting and speaking across the country and working with the skilled trades advisory council or our foundation with Cape and a few other members really making an impact in the trades in each one of us on our foundation really is making impact it's just mission driven there's nothing doing this podcast I get excited speaking to other people who have the same passion and people in the industry I love this stuff this is important so it's always good to get around people who want to see the same result especially in the trades Kevin as our CEO and he's been in that role for a number of years but he came from a family of what it works folks his family owned a what-or-ex business in Midwest Ohio and that's how he came into Ferguson Ferguson acquired his family's company back in the 1990s so you know he's been around this his whole life and I didn't have the same experience growing up because you know I was in the era of everybody goes one way but my husband works in the industry he works in civil utilities the type of people that he works with are remarkable hardworking individuals and I hate how as a society we have lifted up everybody in the corner office while we have undermined everyone that built the corner office right which is they're both important I have tremendous respect and admiration for people that work in the trades and I'm so passionate about changing the way people think and you know really just closing that skill scape we need more trades people you have a sort of a background it a that your husband is in sort of that world and obviously you're in that world I try to have these conversations with I have two young kids I have an 11 year old and an eight year old grown a boy and I always talk about the trades
as an option. Obviously they're young and they got to figure out what they want, but I always kind of put it out there that you could work with your hands. It's not something that's going to be fully outsourced, even during down times, there's still work that needs to be done. Even during COVID times, they were essential. Maybe large projects weren't being done, but stuff breaks, your boiler breaks, your water heater breaks, electrical work needs to be done. I always feel that there's always work to be done, infrastructure work that needs to be done. But having these conversations with your kids is extremely important just to see if it would peak their interest. But putting it in raising it in a good light versus saying, like, don't do that. You don't want to do that. I put it in a different light that it's an opportunity that can lead into maybe owning your own business one day because you see these articles in the Wall Street Journal recently over the last year or so, especially small HVAC companies, plumbing companies, private equity is coming in and buying this up, like small $4 million companies that somebody who's been in the industry for 25, 30 years looking to get out and these private equity companies are just gobbling it up. So they see the opportunity as well in the trades. Yeah, absolutely. And you touched on it a little bit earlier. I just about telling kids where water comes from, telling kids, you know, how the house is built, you know, I think the more we have these conversations with our kids, the more that we show them the different opportunities that are available in life, it has to be part of the conversation. You know, I have children as well, might or similar in age to yours. So we're having very similar conversations. But one thing I stress to them is not everyone in the trades has to swing a hammer. There's so many different things that you can be doing. My daughter who is 10 is very interested in welding. And so she'll go out with her dad in the backyard and they'll they were building her treehouse recently. And just little projects like that where she gets a taste of everything. And I love my daughter, but she is not one that's going to sit behind a desk when she gets older. She just has too much energy and she is really good with her hands, which I think a lot of children are and they like to do the hands on projects. They like to be out and about and moving. And the more we can foster that, you know, sense of curiosity and experience and then I think the better off they're all going to be. I think kids should under supervision. Parents should have their kids play with their tools. So the reasoning behind this is that I always have tools around the house. And just recently, I had both my kids. We were kind of sorting through things like all the different tools. And my son would like say like, what's this? And my daughter would be like, what's this? You just don't say like for this application, this is how you read a tape measure, all the basic stuff that are just lifelong skills. And they got really interested in it. But if I didn't expose them at an early age, it would just kind of maybe it would pass them by if you at least explain these couple of things like building a treehouse. I mean, that's just like hands on work that you remember growing up that again might be the reason why you go into a trade. Just these little stories of these little things and trying to make an impact in your kids life, it could really set them up for their career that maybe is in the trades. Oh, yeah. What great conversations that you're having with your kids. And you said the tape measure. That's my favorite one because you know, they're going through school and they're like, when am I ever going to use this math in real life? When am I ever going to need fractions and a tape measure? Is this a great tool to pull out? Look, this is why you need to know fractions. And this is why you need to know math. And it just makes it all real for them. And I think the more you can do that, that they're just the better off your kids are going to be. I do. And it's interesting about different career paths because I speak to all different people whether they're young, their career changers. So a career changer would be someone like someone is in my family who worked for a supermarket chain for 15 years. And now he's going to be an electrician at 36. Just sat down with him actually. And we actually did a podcast together and learning about his journey. But the excitement that he's getting by getting into a career that he's happy with that he wants to be an electrician. But he literally has to start all over again. But what's interesting is that he's bringing in experience working for a supermarket chain. He was more of a white college job, but he learned leadership. He learned how to work with people. And now is transitioning over to be an electrician. But he's all the skills that he learned is being sort of brought over. So he almost has like an edge to some degree because he's been in an industry. It's different, but it's helping on the soft skills and other things. So I always say it's never too late to join a trade because there are examples out there where people into their mid 40s, 50s who make that shift. So wanting to work with their hands and they're happier for it. Yeah, absolutely. It is never too late to get into the trades. We need so many more trades people definitely reaching that very crucial level. I mean, you think about everything that we're building in the United States. We're talking about all of the aging infrastructure. There's not enough people to do the existing work. So when you just get into like the data centers and the mega projects, who's going to build that? How are we going to continue to grow as a country? You look at the disasters that just happened with Hurricane Helene and the wildfires in California. Who's going to rebuild all of that? I mean, do you think about when you have an HAC issue at home, it takes a week to get a tech out, right? It's not because they don't want to come. They just have that much work to do. So it's never too late. I think we need to start looking at other non-traditional groups more like women, military members that are aging out of the service or getting out of the service retiring. I think that they would be tremendous trades folks. So yeah, anybody and everybody that is willing and wanting to learn that has the work ethic. You hit a point about women and women only make about three or four percent of really the trades out there. I've met some really inspiring women in multiple trades, whether it's welding, electrical, carpentry, and some of them are just well-known influencers online showcasing what they can do with their hands. Years back, you just didn't know. Like you heard there was some women in the trades, but you didn't know. People pop up like Barbie, the welder, these works of art that she makes with their hands. And I had her on a podcast last year. And she's real and she's inspiring other women out there that, yeah, you can work with your hands. And there's an opportunity. And those are the women out there who really making extreme impact. And it's other girls see that and say, you know what, I can do that because they did that. So social media really changed the game across the board for the trades I feel. Speaking of social media, there is a plumber in New York City. She's a union plumber actually. Her name is Joodle and Cassidy. I don't know if you're familiar with her. She came over from Trinidad and Tobago 20, 30 years ago and she's made her own way. And she's a union plumber in New York City. And recently I would say within the last 10 years, I want to say 2017, she started a nonprofit called Tools and Tiaras where she is teaching young women ages six to 14, the skilled trades. And she hosts workshops and summer camps. Last year we had an opportunity to partner with her and sponsor 30 plus girls to go through her camp. And they're learning electrical. They're learning sheet metal. They're doing HVC plumbing, all different kinds of trades. And the kids can't get enough of it. We see the pictures of these young ladies in their hard hats and they're just smiling ear to ear and loving everything that they're learning. And the investment that Joodle and other female trades people in New York are making in these young ladies is remarkable. And I just would love to see more of those types of camps and workshops and hands-on opportunities for kids. That is a perfect example there. And I was also thinking about another woman on my foundation, Mary Gaffney. And she has a camp called Mywick, Women in Construction. And his out in Pennsylvania, she takes about 60-70 girls over the summer. And they're given free tools and is usually sponsored by an organization. I think in this case it was sponsored by Milwaukee and they get free boots. And they learn how to work with their hands. And I had met a young lady about a year, a little over a year ago, Maddie. And she came into that camp. I don't think she really knew much about swinging a hammer, reading a tape measure. But she came out. She teaches now the camp. And now she has aspirations to own her own construction company one day. So you never know when they go through these camps, these programs that they come out. They have aspirations to do something or start their own company. So in that case, and I've heard of her when you said the name, it didn't spark my memory. But when you said tools and T.I.Rs, I was like, Oh, okay, I know. And then you see Evan Jarrett and all these different people doing things. It's quite amazing. It's impacting people's lives in so many different ways. The other aspect of the trades, which I find a little bit difficult is trying to understand what they want to get into, which trade career expiration into the trades. And I had a chance to have an individual on my podcast to handful of months ago, Rashir Shah of skill cat.
and skill cat trains people in the trades by an app, $10 or $20 a month, but you can learn HVAC. I believe you can learn plumbing and a few other trades. I know that Ferguson and an Explobit Trades are kind of working a little bit with skill cat. Can you tell or share a little bit more about the partnership with skill cat? - In my early conversations with Kate, one of the things that we talked about is this is not an exclusive partnership. We want more partners to come to the table, we want more industry to come to the table because that means we can get in front of more kids. That means more kids will have an opportunity to learn the trades. And Kate approached me about a year ago and said, "Hey, skill cat wants to get in on the program. What are your thoughts?" And like I've said from the beginning with Kate, the more the merrier, the more people that are willing to get in the trenches with us and help children learn and have the opportunity to go into the trades. I think the better off we're gonna be. - Yeah, and I agree. And skill cat is another option for people to learn. If you want to learn VR, there are companies who do the VR experience. I believe interplay, transfer, there's a couple companies out there that have that virtual environment. I added an opportunity to put the goggles on at SkillsUSA, down Atlanta, championships. And I was with transfer. And I really got the feeling of being alignment, being a welder. It was just another way to get interested in working with your hands. So I think the VR experience, I think apps like skill cat and the programs that obviously Ferguson is doing and exploring the trades is just a variety of different things that are going on out there that's really exciting that I think has to some degree almost transformed over the last handful of years, how kids can sort of get into the trades and just it creates so much awareness out there, which is really amazing to say. - Yeah, absolutely. I think we talk about, education doesn't always happen in the classroom, right? So how can kids learn outside? And I think the programs like skill cat compliment that learning really well. Now the tools of the trade. - Well, listen, this has been a great conversation, but in every episode, we always ask our guests, a tools of the trade, what's the best advice you have for companies that want to support trades education, but don't know where to start. How do they start to, you know, if they want to go down that path and really give the trades, you know, some helpful support? Where I would start is get them to reach out to, you know, a local organization like explore the trades that is already doing this work, like a skills USA, like a tools in TRA, and figure out where they could potentially fit in. I think the more we work together and the more that we collaborate, the more inroads we're gonna make, and we don't have to go at it alone, right? Chances are somebody is doing this work in the more the merrier, truly. I think it's just about reaching out to your network and building those relationships. - I like that, you know, and explore the trades as one of them, obviously Ferguson, the skills USA, if you've never been down to a skills USA championship, please go down there, it is just unbelievable, the amount of advocating and the amount of support. I mean, it's just, they're all the kids who are in the trades or aspiring to be in the trades or own these red jackets. I'm gonna be down there too by self. I'll be, I believe, on the leadership side and being one of the judges, which is pretty cool. So I am just sort of integrated into skills USA and I just love that organization. And just overall what people are doing, it is kind of fragmented around the country, what people are doing, but each one is doing their own thing and making an impact. If people wanna find out more information about you or Ferguson, where do they go? - I would suggest they go to our corporate website, which is corporate.fergusin.com, and there's a link for Ferguson Care, so we kind of go into all of the things that we're doing within the skilled trades. So yeah, or they could reach out to
[email protected]. - Melissa, it has been great having you on the show. Thank you so much for telling me about Ferguson and about the program that you're offering. I think you're making an impact and appreciate what you guys are doing. - Andrew, thank you so much. It has truly been my pleasure. I appreciate it. - And thank you to our listeners. If you're looking for a dynamic keynote speaker to elevate your next event, head over to AndrewBrown.net and review some of my speaking topics, trades awareness, career exploration, advocacy, and addressing the trade shortage. Don't forget to subscribe to the podcast, so you never miss another episode. We'll see you next time. (upbeat music) - Thanks for listening to the lost art of the skilled trades. Visit us at AndrewBrown.net for more resources and tips. Join us next time for real stories and meaningful initiatives we celebrate our men and women in the skilled trades and shape the future together.
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