How Dropout Cracked Internet Comedy

- I'm an open book, I am a creased, open, dusty, worn library book with too many dog geared pages. I'm Charlie Warzel and this is Galaxy Brain, a show where today we're going to talk about how to make things online that people actually enjoy. We are living through an era of pretty remarkable media consolidation. The streaming wars started out scrappy and they have landed in this place where we now have this constellation of increasingly expensive apps and media catalogs. It's kind of an on-demand reconstruction of the old school cable package, but for arguably more money. The streamers themselves, they've become pretty hard to root for, gone to the days of password sharing, which means that people can find themselves in this constant rotation of tracking down individual shows, signing up for the free trial, bingeing and then waking up in a cold sweat three months later, realizing that you're still paying for Paramount+. Streamers have given us genuine content abundance, which is great, but it's not without its issues as well. These endless libraries have created a decidedly gilded problem of endless perusal and decision paralysis. The issue is real enough that there's actually been an uptick in people investing in physical media. Blue rays and other formats. It's for better quality, but also so that they don't spend forever trapped in this, what's on menu. Which is all to say that it's supremely difficult to start a streaming service these days, and it's even harder to start one that people will pay for and that they will actually seem to love. Now you may have never heard of Dropout TV, but in some ways, that's the point. Dropout was founded in 2018 as part of College Humor, the digital media company that rose to prominence in the 2000s as one of the early board at work video sites. College Humor were part of a generation of online video pioneers, coming up well before YouTube and before short form and streaming video became the lingua franca of the internet. One of those pioneers was Sam Reich, who joined College Humor in the mid-oughts, rising up the ranks, helping build Dropout, and eventually managing to pull off the deal of a lifetime. He purchased both Dropout and College Humor from its parent company IAC for the low, low price of $0. That's a story that we'll get into in detail later. Since 2020, Reich's help turned Dropout into an online comedy success story. He's built his beloved cast of characters and a slate of improvised series that stand on their own, but are also eminently watchable as short form video clips on TikTok, Instagram and YouTube. Now what makes Dropout so fascinating is that on this algorithmic growth at all costs internet, the company embodies an old school internet ethos. The stuff that comes out of Dropout is weird, it's playful, it's even joyous. But ads encourage password sharing, they don't run advertisements on the platform, it seems like they're not interested in courting the biggest audience possible. But the right one. And the concepts of their shows are not ideas that a major media executive would greenlight. There's a show based around comedians playing dungeons and dragons. I hold up to my earpiece, I go, "Bad child, we ride it." I'm sorry, we fly. Another word comedians are dressed up in a elaborate makeup, and then let's create a character in minutes to go on a fake talk show. Oh, well, Tony Stark, we cannot do that. I'm sorry, you're Iron Man saying Tony Stark we can't do that. There's a show where people give PowerPoint presentations. Lad Asians be bad drivers. Who cares about space? We should be kissing the homies. In other words, Dropout is executing a kind of indie media playbook in a media category that is dominated by Titans, and it's finding a real kind of success. I'm fascinated by Dropout because I think it speaks to this moment online and in media where people are just exhausted by the scale and the big sell. And so I wanted to talk to Sam about how he's built this platform and what it takes to make things that make people feel good. We cover his early days, the Dropout acquisition, but also how he thinks about the internet, how comedy can be inclusive, what it takes to greenlight shows, and why Dropout doesn't follow the VC template. Here's our conversation. Sam, welcome to Galaxy Brain. Thanks, Charlie, it's pleasure. So I got to get this out of the way early, you know, I do a lot of research here. The first place I started is just like, what is the bio? What is the person putting out there about themselves? And the first line, you have, you know, started at humble beginnings as the, quote, "village idiot at the New York Renaissance Fair." And so I'm going to need more context here. It just tell me everything. You know, it's like every other aspect of my life, hardcore impostor syndrome, even there. I was only a village idiot, one of four for one summer. And there are a lot of people who can claim to be more entrenched and truly better at the Renaissance Fair than I could. Did you want to be like more of a stage performer, more of a, in front of the stage camera, whatever it is type? For sure. I got the acting bug before I got any other bug. And I think that's pretty consistent with other young people because acting is the first thing that we have access to in high school. So we tend to be bit by that bug first, but really like every step along the way in my creative career was a concession based on the fact that no one would cast me. So you know, there was an acting class where an acting teacher said, "You should market yourself as an actor based on the first impression you give when you walk into a room." For instance, Sam is short, so he should do comedy. And I already loved comedy, but in that moment I was like, "I wonder if that's true. I wonder if I went hard at comedy if I'd find more success." And then you know, I was doing some work with the theater studio in New York and they asked them, "How many headshots and resumes do you get from actors per year?" And they said, "Roughly 50,000." And I said, "How many director resumes do you get per year?" And they said, "Between four and five hundred." And I went, "I like those odds more." Yeah. So I started directing from directing to forming this whole internet comedy group with a group of friends plucked out by called Shimmer, became a new media executive at the age of 21. Yeah. It's like a richy rich situation, you know. It's like, kind of. Yeah. There's something there, I think, with also being good at the internet and being good at making stuff for the internet, which is like, you only have so much control, right? A hundred percent. I think I'm not the first person to make this observation, but I think the internet really captures a lot of theater people because there is a kind of a black box studio. The show must go on tonight, no matter what quality, to ending up on the internet. I really don't envy folks who lock themselves in a room and try to write a screenplay over the course of a year or two because the feedback loop on that is so long that it's hard to get good at it, whereas if your feedback loop is, you know, 60 seconds to three minutes as it is these days online, it's easier to get good at that with consistent feedback from your audience. So, I want to start for, you know, very basic for people. What is dropout for people who haven't heard of it? How would you describe dropout? Sure. Dropout is a niche, maybe even, you might say, alt-comedy streaming platform. Right now, it focuses largely on unscripted comedy content. We are, over time, sort of moving away from that moniker specifically. And that's basically it, Charlie. We charge X number of dollars per month, depending on when you're watching this. Right now, about seven bucks, it's cheaper if you sign up for an annual subscription and in turn, you get our collection of original shows. So we're a little, unlike most of our quote-unquote competitive sense in the sense that most people producing original content are doing it with an avod model or an advertising model on YouTube. And most people who are doing the S-vod thing, meaning the subscription thing, are doing it with other people's content. We are making our own content and monetizing that with a subscription, which puts us in a little bit of a category into ourselves. But first, a quick break. I also have to acknowledge the history of dropout and you becoming the CEO of dropout, is like a bit mind-bending. You purchased it for my IC for zero dollars. You know, we don't have to go deep, deep into the weeds, but like how did that all go down? How did you pull that off? A lot of this is like very lucky slash unlucky circumstantial IAC for years and years had been trying to give birth to a bigger, better version of college humor. And there was always a plan to do that depending on the year. That plan might have come from any number of my bosses at the time and some of those plans were better. and some of them were worse. I think I counted at one point. I think I had nine or 10 bosses over the course of my tenure at College Heamer. Some of them at the same time. And we would never objectively fail at the things that we set out to do. We just wouldn't achieve mammoth success with them either. And I see God bless. We're incredibly patient with us over the course of those 10 plus years. College Heamer wasn't hemorrhaging money. It just wasn't making a lot of money. It was essentially like a break even proposition as long as it was under IAC. So IAC was in losing money. They were just losing a lot of time and effort trying to make something happen with us. It was two years before 2020. So it was 2018 when we hatched this plan around subscription, which is social media is taking a huge bite out of our ad sales business. Like all the ad dollars are now rolling up into social media, TV turns out not to scale very effectively. We had made admirons everything at that point, but it's hard to pitch and sell TV shows. What if we went to direct a consumer with our own subscription proposition? And IAC got excited enough about that to get on board. We started production in 2017. We launched in 2018. And by the end of 2019, we had 75,000 subscribers. So not nothing, but not enough relative to the amount of IAC's money that we were spending on this. And around the end of 2019 as they realized they would not carry on bankrolling us. They tried to sell us aggressively. And the problem with that, it turned out was that because they had just invested a huge amount of money and dropout on paper, it looked like we were losing a lot of money. And the business plan that we had put forward for dropout had us losing many millions of dollars before we flipped profitable. So anyone looking at the business was basically like, well, I have to buy it for X account. And then I have to bankroll it for Y amount, hoping it flips profitable. And then I make my money back over a Z period of time. I mean, a real losing proposition. I had this realization as I was going around town trying to sell the company in order to save jobs, which is any great investment opportunity is one in which you know something that the rest of the world doesn't know. Not to make this sound like insider trading or not to be a proponent of insider trading. It's basically like, I have a thesis that other people don't agree with. But I'm really confident in my thesis. And I was really confident in the thesis that we could reboot this company and no one agreed with me. And at a certain point, it was like, well, maybe actually I can work that to my advantage. And I can pitch IC on the idea of giving the business to me. But I didn't have money with which to buy it. So this premise depended on there not being a better offer. So it came down to me and one other offer, which came from a major conglomerate. And that offer was for I think like three million bucks. And it really was an asset grab. Like, we'll buy the YouTube channel. We'll let go of everybody. We'll figure out what to do with all of this IP. No promises. And my offer was zero dollars. IC would stay in the minority position in the company. I would assume complete control. Truly, truly my pitch to IC over the phone was, I'll make you more of the three million dollars. I don't know. I can't promise you a huge amount. But I'll probably make you more than three million dollars. And lo and behold, I have made IC more than three million dollars. Hell yeah. So you joined college humor in 2006, director of original content, true pillar of pre-social media joyful internet content. I'm curious, because you did mention the sort of like when social media came kind of ate up part of the business made everything a little bit harder. What did you learn during that pre-social media like time about making things for people on the internet? Some of those early core lessons, because I feel like a lot of drop out captures to me some of that joy of that time. It's so funny you should say this, because Ricky VanVeen, who founded college humor, who I'm still good friends with, was introducing me via email to someone and said, "Sam, once dropped out formally college humor, I can take zero credit for what it's become." And I reached out to Ricky immediately and was like, "That is total BS that you can take no credit for what drop that is." Like those early seeds were absolutely in my early college humor and early internet education. One of them is the strength of personality. In just about the earliest version of college humor, people were gravitating toward the people who worked there. And we were sort of noticing that having like a recurring cast gave our audience something to latch onto. The second has to do with attention and how you capture on attention online and how you capture it quickly. Even back then, I mean, even before the social media days, we were in the attention economy and trying to figure out how to get people to stop and to watch us. When we were making programming for television, when television was really just a matter of channel flipping, there was a little bit of this philosophy, which is like how do you make people stop flipping? That in the context of the internet, when people have literally the entire world of media forever at their disposal, right? It becomes like even harder to get someone to stop. And so we learned lessons to do with a virality, some of which are still super true today, which is people have to be clear on the premise of something, pretty immediately when they start watching it. Stuff needs to be visual or to have a visual hook in order to be able to grant people, like talking heads are normally not enough. Obviously a lot has changed about, drop out versus college humor, long form content as opposed to short form content, unscripted content as opposed to largely scripted content, but that early training was paramount. This is great that you led me nicely into, like I wanted to talk about that cast of characters, because I think that you all have built this sort of, you know, the drop out cinematic universe of personalities. And I think like when I look at a lot of different media properties, a lot of the things that they have in common are people will wander in from another space, right? That you have this previous relationship with that you really enjoy. And like you can get a little more like cynical about the parasocial relationship or whatever we're calling it, but I think at the heart of it, it's like there's this continuity. If somebody wanders in that you like and trust from this one thing, you're like, well, I want to see how they do in this environment, right? And then oh, I love this environment. I love this show. And I'm curious like how that system works. Like how did you go about building it? Was it one block at a time? Was it sort of just kind of organic as it happened? And I think it was super organic and accidental in a lot of ways. I mean, I think like to your point, we are an unusual company insofar as if you look at other media companies, particularly those who are doing comedy. A lot of them are not ensembles. Like they have like a few lead creatives at the forefront. Particularly if you're looking at like YouTube channels, right, those are creator-led channels, as opposed to sort of ensemble-led. And dropout, called Shimmer, has always been an ensemble. There has never been a star of the platform. Sort of on the flip side, you have companies that are strictly IP focused, right? Like the Juke and Media's of the world. Or the cut, for instance, who will do sort of concept after concept with no particular set of talent attached. And we again fall into this sort of middle space where people like the conceit behind the shows and they like the talent involved. Alchemy-wise, what's working for us here, particularly as we endeavor to do comedy, is the number one reason why people do not want to watch comedy. New comedy is stranger danger. It's hard to laugh at someone you don't know. You don't trust them well enough to know that they're funny. And interrelax around them. I think it's part of the reason why drama is actually, we're more likely to take a risk on new drama than we are on new comedy. We sort of don't doubt that someone can act in front of us, but we do doubt that they can make us laugh. And by having a cast that ports over from show to show, we're basically solving that problem, which is to say, once you're a dropout fan, you will, if you're a dropout fan, you will probably like everything that we put in front of you so long as you like the people involved. And I'm sort of putting that in front of you as if it's a well-thought-out strategy, when actually we've like totally looked into this, right? Where there are a lot of what we do as leadership, we call like a gentle hand on the wheel, which is to say you notice something is working and then you start to like lean into it a bit. College humor basically, uh, starts using its editorial staff in videos over and over again. At a certain point, we start calling, uh, now as editorial members leave, they're replaced by people who's like full-time job is acting and writing. And we call those folks cast to, uh, we hemorrhage our entire full-time employer base and really can only afford to work with anyone on a contractor basis. And what that naturally does is open up the relationship in such a way where cast can now go out and do anything. We have non-exclusive relationships with cast, but we can call the dropout family a much bigger group of people and split them between more projects. So there's a, there is a larger group of people called dropout talent than there ever was called called shimmer talent. It's kind of ideal like we, I get asked all the time how we find new talent and, and sometimes it's a bit intentional and more often it's an accident where someone will recommend that someone else participate in a show or like we should check this person out. They seem really funny. They come and do a day with us or two days with us or I have them on GameChanger to make some noise. I'm wildly impressed by them. They start appearing in more things. And it's just like, you know, like a friendship. Like we, we hung out and the chemistry was there. Well, and it makes sense too that you would want that organic thing, right? Because if you're, I guess one way to think about it is if you're building that trust in order to get people to laugh, the new people that come in to the ecosystem, in a way sort of have to be vetted by the other people in the thing. Like if everyone's like, kind of this person is a little weird and we just kind of have to tolerate them for this, you know, one hour show that we're doing together, that, you know, that makes everything weird. So I think the natural nature of that is it's got to accelerate the ability for you guys to, you know, change the environment, change, bring on new people. I think that's true, but I would also give the cast a lot of credit and say that they are such sort of welcoming and open-minded people. It means that even if we were, and there are plenty of situations where we shoot horn someone into a show and we trust that our cast is going to get along with them because like we, we think they're really interesting and we want to work with them and the cast is always incredibly welcoming. But like they too, their social circles are always expanding and they're doing live shows with different people. And I get emails all the time from folks to say, "Are you aware of this person you should be?" Which, you know, it's not like our cast is at all economically incentivized to do that. They're just excited to see talented people thrive. Do you think about the talent feeding going the other way to like Jeremy Colling? Is an SNL cast member in this current year has been in a bunch of dropout stuff? Do you think about the old second city, groundlings, UCB? Like that kind of pipeline to these like, you know, legacy properties in the comedy, you know, Pantheon or whatever? Do you think about it going that way? And like, oh, what we want to do is also provide this thing to be an accelerator for those pathways. No, I mean, listen, I think it's an unfortunate reality of the. They're being very few middle-class media companies that exist anymore. You have sort of creators on the one side, and then you have these like monolithic institutions on the other, like SNL. And because there's nowhere in the middle, there's no stepping stone. There's no getting from here to there. And if we at times behave as a stepping stone, I think that's a really important community service that we can perform. And I'm not at all above it. Anytime anyone refers to dropout as a stepping stone, it's not like I'm like, we're more than that to like, I don't feel that way at all. I think that we are trying to do something a little different vis-a-vis our relationship with exclusivity. And I think this is super important because I see people. I don't, I would never take credit for this, but I think Jeremy is a really great example. If SNL had asked Jeremy to be exclusive, you know, I don't know what his reaction would have been. My guess is he would have done it anyway. SNL is incredibly powerful on a huge opportunity. But Jeremy has permission from SNL to come work with us and continues to all the time. Like whenever he is back in L.A., or off SNL, our attitude about folks like Jeremy, or Vic McAless who is in ponies, or Lou Wilson who is Jimmy Kimmel's announcer, is we are very content to be your favorite second thing you do. Like, by all means go out and find a primary job and then come play with us all the time. What I think Slash hope that means is that as time goes on, folks like Jeremy and Vic and Lou will always find the time to come back and work with us even as the rest of their career, sort of blossoms and transforms. They don't have to sort of step on us and move on from us, but they can come back and play with us all the time. I know you guys are rooted in comedy above all, but as we're talking about the cast characters and everything, it's hard to miss how inclusive the network and drop out is. And not just the diversity and the types of people featured, but also just I think there's a lot of small and meaningful touches, like as small as pronouns and title cards and things like that, that does feel different and welcoming in this way, especially on internet spaces. And I'm just wondering is that part of a concerted effort by you all to really message to an audience and make sure that they feel seen? Tell me about how that vibe that I get watching was created there. I would talk about this in a very similar way that I would talk about the cast in general, which is to say that I think we, as a gentle hand on the wheel, have sort of steered into the direction of something that was very naturally occurring anyway. We live in Los Angeles. It's a very diverse place. It's a very progressive place. We work with these people because they are the funniest and most talented people around. But I think if you're making comedy in a metropolitan area, it's going to be diverse. You know, Brennan sometimes says, "When we set out to do Dimension 20, we set out to do the comedy D&D show." And then the reaction we got from its audience was you have made the diverse D&D show. And that was sort of surprising, you know? It's not the mantle that we necessarily set out with. There is a way in which once this snowball gets going, right? If you have a diverse assortment of people involved in creating your content, the people they then recommend to come to the table are also probably diverse people. And this collection of diverse people will have wants and needs in order to feel taken care of, such as pronouns on screen. And all we are doing is sort of behaving as community leaders, which is to say we want everybody to feel comfortable and treated with respect. And so we naturally lean in that direction. It's funny, pronouns we're appearing on screen, maybe even for a full year before they started appearing on call sheets. On our production call sheets, we suddenly woke up and realized, well, why on earth aren't we doing that? And if we're not doing that, why aren't we wearing name tags on set so that people with those pronouns can feel treated properly? I mean, there's all sorts of just very naturally occurring ways in which one step leads to the other leads to the other. I say this so much that I think I'm almost in danger of seeming like I don't care about the ethics of all this. And of course I do. All of this has its foundation in ethics. But there are really just purely sensible reasons why this happens. Unfortunately, the bar is just incredibly low. There's that. But the other reason, and I hope this doesn't, I'm not setting you up to make a political statement or anything. But I feel like part of why I wanted to ask that is like the algorithmic nature of social media shows me two parallel worlds of comedy, right? What you are all building is this very decidedly different world. And then there is like the kill Tony sphere of light. I am here to push the boundaries in a very, you know, purposely provoking way or also just like mean spirited comedy versus a comedy that is a little more like we want you to relax and feel included and you know, entertained in this other way. And I'm just wondering if you see dropout as reaction to that type of thing as a positional force, a palate cleanser or in relation at all to like that fork in the road difference in how people pursue comedy. You know, it's interesting. I probably don't personally see it as quite that binary. And I would be sad if I thought that dropout didn't in in its own way have permission to be a little edgy sometimes. I do think that there is a difference between creating comedy that feels sort of cutting edge to use a term that I like a little bit more than the term edgy and punching down like we are in a moment that is scary enough, politically, that it's hard to laugh at punching down. Listen, I grew up on a lot of that comedy because it's hard to avoid when you were a teenager in the '90s. And like, I was a huge family guy fan when it was on the air. Like I'm not allergic to edgy comedy by any stretch of the imagination, but like when a community of people is actually being threatened to go after them feels real bad. There are comedians out there who are making this their thing. And part of the reason why they're doing it is marketing where they're like, by appealing to this, whatever this is, anti-wook right when group of people, I can sort of like gather these fans in my space, these fans who are willing to spend money on me. Their thing has like more to do with anti-wovenness than it has even to do with comedy, I would say. So how do you all come out with new show ideas? You know, like how do you know what to green light? What's not a fit? To cut bait and I think the bigger part of this question is actually asking like, how do you make stuff online in 2026? We talked about attention spans being fractured. But there's something about dropout, like I ate two nights ago. I watched whatever six comedians play a board game for an hour and I'm just like, give me another one. Can you bring me a little into the room? How do you guys make stuff for people in 2026? One thing that is set dropout apart since we broke off from college humor is we have an internal development and production mechanism, which is to say, particularly if you look at the slate of shows that we've done up until this point. The vast vast majority of them were ideas that came from inside as opposed to outside. Very important people is based on a series that I created 13 years ago, starring Joshua Ben for college humor called Hello My Name is and is a reboot of that show, which a lot of people have no idea that that's the case and why should they? Part of the reason why that is is because we need to be very particular about what we put on dropout given that we're trying to check a lot of boxes at once. The boxes that are difficult to check at the same time, most difficult to check at the same time are the ones of this works in long form, wide screen format, and it works in short form, vertical video format, such that it can effectively market itself. Just in the last year or so, we've maturized the development effort considerably. There's now more new, very talented team members working on it. We're doing more development on the outside of the company, which is to say more traditional kinds of development where writers and creatives are developing ideas on their own and we're catching them through that process, but what remains is our hands in the mess with the creatives, which is to say we want to lead them to the promised land. We feel like we have a lot that we can do to help them. Development in Hollywood particularly now has a little bit of a pass-fail mentality where it's like creatives often partner with production companies. The production company is going to try to help craft the idea. By the time they're pitching it to the network, it better have a star attached. Then it passes and fails in that room, whereas our attitude about it is, let us make this show with you. An issue that I think is very prevalent in media, especially in Hollywood, is this nature that things need to be absolutely tested to, right? It has to be focus grouped. It has to have an absolute core audience. You know that those people are going to be bought in. It has to play well in this market or this market or this thing. You guys have so much more flexibility. Is there a sense with Dimension 20, a D&D series? Do you come at it and say there isn't an audience of underserved people who've grown up with this, who love this, who care about this, who think it would be great. We want to sort of give these people this type of thing or is it just genuine love for the game and a good idea and it's a huge surprise that it's it? I think it would be irresponsible to develop shows without some kind of a thesis. For sure, we have a thesis about the kind of shows that make sense for dropout and the kind of shows that don't, right? We call it our development siv or our creative siv. If you imagine a siv, what ideas are getting passed through and what are getting caught by the siv and rejected traditional networks, sometimes called the mandates. But ours are pretty loose and pretty experimental. Like part of the fun of running dropout and we think the fun of being a dropout subscriber is that we're going to do stuff that other people aren't going to do. Like we're focused on offering something differentiated. We want to be seen as better internet and not worse Netflix. When we're talking about innovation, when you're trying to encourage innovation, you simply cannot afford to be all that stringent with what shows get experimented with and what concepts get experimented with and what concepts don't get experimented with. If there is one criteria that rises to the top, it's that someone needs to be really passionate about this thing. But arguably the stranger more experimental that is if it has someone who's really passionate about it, the better differentiation, uniqueness, novelty, more fissaurus terms for that word. Arguably is the most important facet of dropout content. You're building this business in a way that a VC or a media executive like definitely wouldn't, right? And I mean that as a compliment, because it just doesn't seem like you guys want to grow, but you're not obsessed with scale. You're putting the words, yes, you can share your password in the marketing campaign, right? Like, do you feel like this in this moment that it's a superpower for you all to just zag in that way? In some ways, contrarian to my core, and so I think when other people are doing something we're inclined to do the other thing, partially just out of a rebellious instinct. Like that's just true probably. I think what's interesting when people tell me like you're not doing what a traditional network would do, or you're not doing what a VC fund would do, in a lot of ways that's true. And yet, like despite all of these things we're saying, like dropout doing its people, treating its people well or, you know, not being interested in like growth at all costs or championing sustainability or profit share or whatever you want to point to, it's working. It's really working commercially, meaning like we have grown a lot every year despite ourselves. So one of two things is true, either zagging is just its own commercial benefit, or everyone else has something slightly wrong. That we're getting right. I think what people want now more than anything in this era of saturation, like a lot of people use the word taste, but I think ultimately what what people want is to be led by curiosity, to be led by interest, and that is what feels authentic. And I think even if that is just the rebellious spirit of we just don't want to be doing that thing, because that's boring, because everyone else is doing it. I think even that is a signal to people that like this is something, sure worth checking out. Sam, thank you so much for coming on Galaxy Brain talking about, that's it for us here. Thank you again to my guest Sam Reich. This episode of Galaxy Brain was produced by Renee Clark and engineered by Miguel Carascal. Our themes by Rob Smurciac, Claudine Bade is the executive producer of Atlantic Audio, and Andrea Valdes is our managing editor. If you liked what you saw here, new episodes of Galaxy Brain would drop every Friday. You can subscribe to the Atlantic's YouTube channel, or on Apple, or Spotify, or wherever it is that you get your podcasts. And if you want to support this work and the work of my fellow colleagues, you can subscribe to the publication at theAtlantic.com/listener, that's theAtlantic.com/listener. Thanks so much, and I'll see you on the internet.