The Wave Pull Mag podcast is made possible due to support from Wave Pull operators, technology providers, and the growing list of companies doing business in the surf part space. For commercial opportunities, reach out to us at
[email protected]. Thank you and stay stoked. [Music] And welcome to the Wave Pull Mag podcast. My very special guest is Clemond and Axel from Inlesserve Wave Pools and Clemond, welcome to the show. Thank you, Brian. It's really cool to have you here because so much has happened since our last podcast two years ago. And you have a Wave Pull in Munich. You have other projects opening up elsewhere. You've been through a lot to make this happen. Yes, a lot of times since that's time. Yeah, and today we're here in Munich just checking out the pool and seeing how it's come along. It's been I guess a year since the first commissioning. We started the commissioning last year in March and the pool opened to the public last August. Last August. We were here in May with I think Blair Conkland. Yes, which was the commissioning was still in progress at the time. Well, you created the like the best skin boarding wave pool as a world. Yes, that was an unexpected compliment. It was like a happy kind of a happy accident. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's always like this. We always, you know, usually the writers are during the commissioning and we're focusing more on the specialty wave first and then finished to go for the public operation waves. Okay, that's always like this. Yeah, and most of the images we see from a wave pool once they opened is pros getting amazing stuff and that's just basic marketing. And the the front part also of what you're all this is working with the pros. Yeah, well, cool. Let's give us a little history. Some people turning in might not know your background. We've been with endless surf, white water for for how long to just give us your background. So I started to work in the wave pool industry back in 2011 with American wave machine at the time. So I was a different industry at the time, but it's is a. That was the the in the sea of wave calls pretty much. Yes. Well, it was already a turning point in 2011, but yes, so very yes, it was still the in the infancy. And so worked with American wave machine for four or eight years and then I started to work with endless when I was hired by a white water and slash and a surf because it's the same company to design and the surf. So starting from scratch and it was really cool because it gave me the opportunity to reassess some of the thinking that I had since 2011. So and we've gotten was about to open the code. We had Waco, we had KS waveco. So a lot of polls surf legs as well. So it was a really good opportunity to reassess on the technology side to change for what we think better operation, better wave, better more flexibility and better design as well. Okay. Now, I know there's some measure of creative process to this. Is that okay to say because it's it's very much engineering, very much pushing water. Yes. So it's a point where you have to think outside the box or you have to kind of let your consciousness go and tap into something else or my mind does so. No, for some parts you completely write. I mean, the design of the the her shape is, I mean, that was really a creative process. So I was envisioning basically the middle being like kind of an island where, so the pool was was designed with the to maximize the number of waves and the occupancy. So we already had the split peak in mind right away. And the the the the middle of the hurt was the idea and I have some photos of this is an island where the waves actually wrapping around and reforming on the side to the shore. And this is then of course we simulated with CFD but the design starts through creative process. Through the and this and that comes from wherever great ideas come from out there in the ether. Yeah, it's exactly and inspired by nature and stuff like this. Oh, that's awesome. And then so let's let's move to I remember for years we just had animations and and diagrams. And then we had the actual pool here in Munich. And what was it like going from you know computer design to an actual physical pool was that I know there were some elements of like, oh my god, it's is here. Yes. And but there also had to be some other elements of like, wow, it's it's real now. We can't break the concrete and change anything. Yes, yes, yes. Well, I'll always been a believer of CFD and let's say law of physics design tools. So that's why we were working with CFD for the waves and the current and then basically the law of physics to monitor what's happening in the mechanical. So it's you can be really, really accurate if you're taking the right assumption and not forgetting to took some variables in the mix. If you invest that's probably like assumption and not forgetting anything is to put in your model is is a hardest part. And that's what is the most stressful. Did I forget something? And my assumption right or is that too narrow or too broad, you know, until yeah, that was a stressful part about it. So how do you have to ask how do you handle stress? I mean, because you're you're designing it. There's so much pressure on you and it's not like, oh, I messed up a batch of cookies. I'm out. It's like millions and millions of dollars of poured concrete, you know, matter chambers. How do you deal with the stress of that? It's a good question. How I manage to do it is by being 100% sure that the model I'm using is completely right. As the only way I can really stress, I want to make sure. So that's something that I do all the time is how I can compare the results that I have on my CLD models or on the model we developed internally to to to design what's happening in the mechanical room with some data we can have on site. So and you can sometimes you can compare two simulation tools as well. And if they if they say the same thing, then you know, they probably write because it's two different approach. And then for the rest, because we didn't have a poll, we actually did some validation of the model on the small pneumatic wave pole. So that? A prototype. Not a prototype, just a pool that we were built a really long time ago. Tiny wave pole for kids. We went there and changed our design and changed the CFD to model this pool and actually validates the so that was a first step of validation. Not full scale, but it's still considered as full scale. And then we built a prototype of one case on in Nierta and that was not around of validation. So once you had the case on pushing out waves, you were able to get your measurements to use the CFD and extrapolate that into the many changes. Exactly. When I saw the so we had a bunch of sensors temperature pressure, everything every time I can put a sensor somewhere, it's not for the machine itself, but it's to better understand for to feed the CFD model and the design model. I'm doing it because it's really valuable. And when I saw the first result at the Nierta case on, even if it's just just wire going up and down, but when I saw wire movement, when I saw the pressure curves, the curves that you are really from my model. So that was first I was like, here was big relief.
well. And the other thing, the other important thing to really stress is to not be the only one you know, taking the assumption or being just one person. So I did a lot of everything. I talking to you, Axel, if it thinks rights, if he has some feedback and so then we can share the stress a bit. And the exact soul is also under. So yeah, the team is also a way of. You're surrounded, you have the support team now. Is that what is back when you first started that or was it? Yes. Well, the best, you know, at the beginning, I was pretty much by myself. I mean, Andrew was with me right away. But it was, let's say, the first pull when I started was so far away, that the pressure was not very yet. It cannot build up for the years and climax probably in a year before Munich. Okay, it was still out there and then yes, then they are all they're all theoretical. And then how about emotionally when you saw the pull first, like the first wave roll after you remember seeing the first. Yes, yes. And that's. I have mixed feelings because usually when the first wave is made is it's only the beginning of the commissioning process. So and I knew we could make waves. So I was not that excited or it was not a relief yet. It was even more a source of stress because as soon as we fired a wave, everybody is yelling and I'm here and I'm like seeing all the problems already. So the first wave rolls out and you just see what changed. I was just dead quiet and say I'm gonna, how I'm gonna fix this. This is gonna be a problem and so yes. So it went into work mode. Yes, exactly all the time. Yeah, yeah. I was during the commission process, I was required needed to be on the side and and just walk around and just think it's it's it's really stressful. And yeah. Okay, if you could pick one thing that was the most challenging. So let's do this build here in Munich. What was something that I took you a while to get your head around to a problem that was really challenging to solve? I think we knew the solution pretty quick right away. It's not like at one point with like this problem we won't be able to solve it. It's a process that takes a long time because usually there's still some construction around. So you know, if you need to build something else to fix a problem, this is something that's taking sometimes and and the stress is not only on you list the stress for us on the technology side that then there's a stress on the client on spending all this money to make it work and the it's it's hard also to try to tell the client everything is gonna be okay. Don't worry, it's we're gonna fix it and and so then there is a lot of stress. It's really it's a really stressful for everybody during that process especially on the first one. I think this will be much easier on the next one. We already see it with the pool in Kedia but yeah here it was like trying to manage people's stress internally and externally. Okay and then let's talk about so we're here. We have Munich. It's in the ground. It's working. People are surfing it. What other projects are in the works that you can you talk about and you just give us numbers? Yes I think we so I to be honest I kind of lost track of all the projects. We have in place because that's right after Munich open and I think then we had a lot of same contracts. So we have some project in Kedia that we made first wave a month ago. We have another project in in Saudi and then we have project in Mexico in Gabel, project in Florida and a few projects in Brazil and all these are under construction right now. Okay. At this point in the conversation we're joined by Axel has been roaming around the endless surf wave pool in Munich, attending to business and he's finally joined Klemel and I in the recording studio. Hello thank you for you're very busy running around Munich and during this event but thank you so much for joining us. Yeah and so that's for having me here. And so we kind of have the wave creation dynamic duo here Klemel and Axel. That's it's pretty cool. Two wave DJs. Yes. So actually you can speak directly to Klemel and the first part of the program spoke to having doing all the heavy lifting, getting everything going, getting everything off the the ground from design to to actual producing waves. Yeah. When I saw you in May of last year we were out here and you were like tweaking waves and you had your software going. What was we ready for that or were you just kind of thrown into it? Like you're the new kid on the team and you're like okay tweak these waves. Okay very good one. We were ready not really it's very simple and boring question boring answer but it's been like three years before that we've been working on the computers and refining simulation tools working on CFD like all the all those stuff that helped us not only to design the the product but also to make sure that when when we will be there like on the ground the field starting to make wave we have everything as flexible as possible to play with and that's kind of that's kind of what happened. So in a sense yes we were prepared because we knew we would have everything to tweak. Now everything needed to be done because it was the first the first spool out there like going from simulation to reality. So that transition you have to make tests and you you never know how it's going to come out really. So the first wave that we made was was amazing and it was the best surprise ever because we saw that all the simulation that I had in my head and that came to like where now reality they were real it was the same thing. So it was like it was a relief for sure. It was a relief for you Adam we just asked Le Mans and for him it was a whole series of the other. It was the other way it was not a relief. Oh okay because I saw the problem leading. I wonder we never talk about that it's funny. So but yeah for me was yeah it was a relief it was like wow okay it's behaving exactly as we as we thought and there's a bunch of things in simulation that it's hard to do like starting to mess up with the sections and see what they're producing in terms of surfability it's very hard to get a grasp of it in a in a software. So all this you have to do it in real life and we had a few ideas okay how are we gonna make how are we gonna change the let's say the breaking intensity of the wave how are we gonna make a more begging a wave and a more expert wave we knew what we would play on but the values we didn't know then. So it was I think the best summary of this thing then becomes a trial trial and error process. You know the variable you're gonna play on but you don't really know what they what they are exactly and you learn a little bit the more you move forward like okay I'm gonna tweak I'm gonna tweak this like to this value or it produces this I'm very happy with and now let's try to add these pieces together so they're the discovery component was obviously huge there so that's what I'm saying it's a long it's a long answer sorry but it's a bit of both if we didn't have the simulation and the tools that claim more turned super hard never would have a result like this and never would have been so quick in the wave making but on the other hand being on the field that many days because we spent a lot of time on site almost I would say six months that's what I had not told them and sorry I'm repeating I don't know and depending on the time it sounds pretty crazy and so this this part has had also to happen like the field component had to be like a long one so we could test and like compare to simulation and and see what it how it turns out to the lagoon because they're again as I said it's really an important point for me but you cannot really judge the surfability of the wave in simulation it's tough like there are a lot of things that you have to to see on the field and you see it visually but also it's different when the surfer is on it like a huge amount of time that I thought that the wave would be really good and when you put a surf on it is like a takeoff is too hard or this section is too mellow and I'm like come on like you are you're you're joking
must not be true. And when I get in the water, I'm like, oh, they were right. So like, the, the, it's really subjective. All this thing is subjective. And you, you have to judge it visually with a feedback from surfers that know what they're doing. And sometimes with yourself too, because like you, you, you have to feel it too. Like it's, uh, no, I, I, I, I remember that watching, um, the, the waves come through and you're working with Blair Conkland and having, uh, he wanted an air section and with Leon, oh, I heard too. And it, and it's like the first, the first one you tried, like the little side wave came out too soon. Exactly. So it was like, there was the way behind it and the other one. And for, for me, watching that was like an aha moment. That's like, oh, wow, there are, it doesn't just, it looks so easy when you look at the Instagram clip with the, the wedgie, oh, and section. So, so, so what was your process? And get that to create something like an air wave. Okay, my is looking at me because I cannot really much. Otherwise, uh, no, it's, uh, the process, the process. Um, in general, like, let's take the example of the air wave. Um, again, the, the role of like knowing the technology and what we can do with it is super important. So, I know the parameters I can play on and I know them well because we, we made sure with Klem, including with Klemon that, uh, they give us all the flexibility on the wave making, like all of them, like the, the case on motions, like all the, the patterns that we have, like all how we design the system, we made sure that we can have, um, the maximum range of flexibility on, on the wave making basically. So first, it's knowing the system well and what I can do with it. Okay. And then it's highly relying on the, on the feedback of the server. And then you start, honestly, you start also making trials and you'll be like, okay, what happened? Um, if I start making this and this with Klemon, sometimes it was like me sending a message, it's like, oh, can you send me a new, kind of a new profile or new stuff and he's like, okay, I did this for you, like kind of the, the, the, the, the, the, the machine. And so that was that was it. Like I think it was, I was giving, sorry, it's not even a, it's not, it's not a wave. Like we're not importing a wave. No, it's like we, we, we importing kitchen, kitchen, it's very grammy or, and then very grammy or. And so the, the idea was like, I was on the field most of the time and gathering feedback from the server and starting to play with the tool that I had, like, like a, like a gems bomb and you always had a guy behind that is making new tools, right? And I was Klem, like he was making all those numbers, like that's a poor analogy, sorry for that. But I felt like that because he was sending me new, new ones and he was like, oh, try this one. And I was like, okay, let's, let's see. And I was seeing what he does in the water and all the guys were like, what? Like really? Like do that again. And then we obviously tweak it. It's never, honestly, we never had like a perfect 100% like in the, in the making. Maybe yesterday, yesterday, we, in good one yesterday, we met some new waves that, that we tried to idea because we have a little more time and working on this profile. And we actually tried it yesterday and, and when I go, if I works for you, well, do you remember something coming through and deploying that and the pull and just being like, oh, that's it. I will. And then how do you name it? So you can reference the future. Oh, yeah. I mean, can you can talk about the first damning that we completely removed? The first one. What's the dispice? Oh, well, oh, yeah, it's good. It's good. It's good. It's good. It didn't work well. That's a fun, that's a fun story. So we were, we were at the back in the commissioning and we were like, you know, like kids playing with a new tool and discovering all those waves and stuff and we're like, hey, we have to cover for something. Like we are reinventing the wheel in a sense. Like there are new waves, new patterns. We can do so many stuff. How we're going to name them and like all those pull out there, they have they have name for the levels like intermediate progressive. And I don't know what, why they thought about it. You came from we made some wave and oh, this one is spicy. Oh, yeah, it would also. And so then they they start to look at spice level and start to and we're like the wave like different spice levels and different names like and we're like, okay, let's take the paper scale, like the Scooby or scale. Like they start to name the way like this. And then he was so funny because we're sick. He was not anymore saying to the surf town guys like, hey guys, like what do you want as a wave? And they wouldn't say in advance. They would say the I want the Abanero. Like I wonder, I want the, I want the, yes, I want the like whatever the green paper like for the beginner and like we then claim it arrives with black. Because they were like, guys, I don't think it's professional enough. No, it's not, it's not even a professional. It's like, I don't understand anything. Like I arrive and it's like, well, what is the orange and benero? Because nobody know like, and you just stick that the scale, you know, like nobody know that the Carolina Reaper is the maximum. So like the naming, naming is a difficult. It is. Yeah, but I get that because I've been to the museum in Aspelette. Oh, yeah, yeah, true. In the Basque Country. Yeah. But in that, it's like, okay, that Permanente Aspelette, that's level four. And then yes, it goes out. The Carolina Reaper. Reaper is number number 10. So I get that. But yeah, how do you not bend to familiar with capters that wouldn't be very interesting? Well, exactly. And we can create so many waves that at the end, we have like 30, 40 different names. So it's like, if you don't, that's why when I arrive at like, let's do something simple, everybody can understand within the team. Sorry. I'm not telling you. It's great. So, but that leads me to another point. Did you have like a, did you get a request sheet? We need a beginner intermediate, progress or advanced. Yeah, that's a way. And that's a good one. How many do they ask you for? So it's always, it's always tricky. Back in the days when we signed the contract, we had like the market in terms of the industry, wasn't the same in terms of wave requests. So it was really, let's try to provide more and show the industry what we can do. And so like really quickly, we started to go with the intermediate level and creating one pattern. And like, it feels good, but I'm sure we can do something like, like something different and create a second one in intermediate that will still be good to write. And that would have other features. And eventually you would come up with three patterns per level. And so in the in the Munich library right now, they are like, I think you have three patterns per level, per modes. So free and speed, free and single. And we made a lot of waves. So I think the library is close to, yeah, 30 40 wave stopper. Yeah, not counting the custom one that are made with the pros, me training, Victoria, Vergara, everyone. And basically, yeah, the, unfortunately right now they are not using all of them because of the public session. And that's not the re the request by the surface to have more waves, but it is actually a lot that we made since the start. And we are just scratching the surface, honestly, we can make so more like way more like just look at yesterday. Sorry, go ahead. Yeah, no, that was going to ask does it ever get overwhelming? Like you're making so many waves. Yes, so I wanted to ask, did you keep track? Do you have any weight in you experimented with? And then also how your your process for filtering for editing. Yeah, it's it's it's honestly it's a very good one. And I think with flexibility and wave variety as much as we have, that's going to be the problem we go to face to make the right selection. And like, which one do you keep? And they're like the right official name and which one is like kind of a more the spicy one that you will not offer to the regular clan, but keep it for something else. Like as as for instance yesterday again, we in one hour 30 was the pros in the water. We made like three different waves. One is like the the barrel along one is like a barrel and the slaby and one is a barrel to air, which one do you keep like which one is going to have a value on the market and which was or you keep for the pros that are going to come next time in two weeks, for example, it's a you don't really know and from now we didn't decide so that it's still name Osso Gore and Osso Gore slab into south to A.D. because I was making it with with Killian, with K.J. And like, you know, was saying let's give the first name I thought about it was it was this because they served that slant there. It seems there would be some saturation point. I mean, you guys are really in town Hagen and you have capacity to remember a lot of things. Is there some step that you forget? Yeah, for example, yes. I played the I saw in the library white lightning one. That's the way we make with me, Mike Fadin. I couldn't remember what he was. I played it and I was like, okay, that's what he was like, okay, okay, okay, let's move. And if you don't keep track, and it's same thing with simulation in the wave making, if you don't keep track of what you've done, then you go back in circle. Anything is the area same thing. When it war comes on something you work
on a couple of years ago and they're like, wait, that's not familiar. Oh, yeah, I've done it before. Oh, okay, just been all this time and I could just have, so we're keeping logs of what we do because we learned it the hard way. So when I was going to ask you have like a spreadsheet in Google Docs, sir. It handwritten no pads. It's all in the, honestly, it's all in the software. Like we can add the description to it. Okay. So usually we fill that in. Yeah. And yeah. And just to add one thing that, you know, we're probably going to talk about something else in, we don't, and that's a rule of thumb we always do is we're not trying to like foresee or simulate the wave that is that is going to be played because I mean, the wire isn't unpredictable. And as Axel said, like we in CFD is really hard. So what we do, where we spend the most time on is building all the tools and as Axel explained, building all the tools so we can tweak all the wave parameters, the fastest and the easiest way possible. So we can, we can create the wave. So and that's why we don't do reef. That's why we don't. So spending a lot of time in the technology to be able to control every parameters of the wave. That's why we work the most time. So that transitions nicely into scaling up. You've got many other projects going on. How is it like you need more than one claim all and and Axel and Axel, you're going to another project next. Okay. And then you'll be there and you'll go through the same process. Yeah. And then for the for the story as well, like I guess the time spent on sign will not have to be as as important as Munich. I was saying just earlier that we did almost like six months there, like in the in the next one, for example, not sure if we have the right to reveal the name. Yeah. Otherwise we'll yeah. So so in the next project in Kielia, we were there last week and we spent a few days there and it's it's crazy how how far we got in the sense that we got there and load the new software. That is, I would say, even a new version. A little bit improved from what we have in Munich. And we made the wave library from scratch and less than two days. In two days. In less than two days. Yeah. So in a few hours. So what took you six months here took you two days? Yes. So I mean, yeah, from scratch, I'm saying, yeah, because we had to redo, we had to redo some of the patterns. The reason is the again, the software was made differently and I cannot remember for on top of my head, like all the all the profiles, the case on motion that we are using. So like we had to do it from scratch and because also clean did some magic and he wanted we wanted to try some new stuff because he gave me some new tools. So I was like, okay, that's right. We use them and see what they do. And it was a very good surprise again. So basically we we re-did all the process, but we came up with 15 waves that are ready to to be operated in Kielia in less than two days of work. So we spent a lot of time making sure that the tech is doing the best we can and we have to improvise a little bit and make sure it's reliable and once so I took quite some time and then the process of understanding how everything works and how we can if we change parameter, how does affect the wave, that was another wrong process. But now, now that we re-em misunderstanding that and the technology also, the hardware part is well understood. Now the process is much faster as I so said. So yes, they're going to be a component of us getting there, importing libraries and stuff. But honestly, the more we move forward and the more we will be able to test new things. For example, like on seven days of work in Kielia, I think we dedicated two of them or yeah, three of them on importing the whole thing. And because basically two days of wave making, plus then you create them in sets and you see how it behaves and we re-found the same thing as Munich. So we were like, okay, that's a box ticked, I would say. And from there, we were able to use that extra time to make experiments. And that's where we came up with that new wave, that barrel wave, that then we re-imported in Munich and we spent the next the last hour or hour and a half to work on. So like I would say that in the future, in the new project, the more we move forward, the more we have saved the waves that we know, that we understand and we'll be able to focus on new things and push the boundaries even more of like wave making and stuff like that. So for us, it's good because it's not only commissioning a ride as we did in the past, there is this component always of, okay, let's import what we know. Okay, these are the waves that are working, they're going to be part of the library. Now we'll tweak even more, like let's work, let's make new patterns, let's move forward and push the boundary of that sport. So that's what's going to make the future exciting for us. And for all the parts that we're going to open, I'm sure. Yeah, that's fascinating. And you Munich is 34 K-Sounds. Yes. K-D-A-Y-S 32. The 32. Small models. And you have some 48 K-Sounds. Where's in the works? So Mexico is, Cabo is 48. And in doing that in upscaling, are you, will you have to start the way it making process from scratch because it's bigger? That's a good one. I've been answering some of our clients and the my answer would be, let's take the example of a single peak wave, the one that everyone loves, like from one and to the other. Munich is 34 K-Sounds. If you go on the 48, you take those, imagine let me take the barrel wave. We're going to take those 34 K-Sounds and plug them in the first 34 K-Sounds, the 48 model. And then it's like, hey, what do you want to do with the rest? You want to keep on going with the barrel? Do you want to add an air section? You'll now revert to a certain wave just longer. So that's what I'm saying when it's not from scratch, that's why it's going to be more, even more exploratory as we move forward. And basically in every new park, if you have more K-Sounds, we're not doing from scratch. We're starting from the wave that we know. And then it's a matter of adding new stuff. You give us more K-Sounds so we can do magic. We can do the barrel longer. We can add the air section like it's really, that's the exciting part. And that's why I think you're going to have value in opening always new parks everywhere. And honestly, even if you don't have, that's a point I'd like to make and then like to mention. How are we going to keep all those waves and parks exciting, no matter the size of the park, no matter the number of the cases? You could be like, okay, if I'm opening another 36 but now in the middle east, how is it going to compare with Munich? Basically when we do the wave library, most of the time, so you saw the waves that we made here yesterday. We made them in Munich. Okay, so right now they are in the library of Munich. But tomorrow, if we go to Kilia, in the middle east with the same size model, we're going to make new waves. You're going to make all the ways because there will be other athletes and we're going to work on some more stuff. Now, what do we do with the waves? Maybe the park is going to say, I want to keep them in Kilia and Munich is going to say, I want to keep the waves in Munich. So now, you're not only surfing like an endless surf pool, you're surfing surf town Munich, break, or you're surfing Kilia break. Yes, there is technology, but because the wave variety is so different, I mean, it depends on the place and other people you've been making them with. You're not surfing essentially the same break. So in the sense that for me, the technology is very interesting. It's like you're not surfing in yes, you're surfing a break. The Munich yes, that has the specificities, it's breaks and waves that have been developed there and the whole history of the park with Blair going here, Lucas Kiner, we made a lot of waves with those guys. But in Kilia, we're going to have other athletes, we're going to have other people coming and there we're going to be able to make other waves. They're going to be different and you can offer them to public. And basically, that's the park that's going to decide what they want to do with it. And obviously, there is a possibility for us to take the way from Munich and import them elsewhere. That's possible. But who knows? In some instances, you might want to have different stuff that you don't want to share with other people. Just to make it more unique. And the branding opportunity that I'm sure of, when there are more parks around, someone could say, "Oh, we had this way." Exactly. For me, that's the important part. Because in a few years' time, there are going to be a lot of park out there and hopefully a lot of ES. So how my experience in this one, in this portion of the word is going to be different from the other ES. So for me, that's where it becomes exciting to start traveling to serve the different ES. Because yes, we will find some of the waves that you know and some might be different. That's fascinating. So much.
more than I initially thought when we sat down today, he just started this conversation. Thank you so much Axel for very random taking us up to speed. And it's great to see you guys again. And I will see you. - I'm sure you will, with new ways, we'll make your brain, brain waves, brain gyrus on the wave for sure. (upbeat music) (water splashing)
PodcastTranscript AI