How Did Your Parents Mess You Up? My Daughter Got Brutally Honest About What I Got Wrong

Hey, it's your friend Mal, and welcome to the Mal Robbins Podcast. Hey, it's your friend Mal Robbins, I'm thrilled that you're here with me, and I am so excited. My daughter, Sawyer Robbins, co-author of The Let Them Ther- You're Here. I'm here! We did an episode, the last episode that we dropped, you asked me a bazillion questions about love and relationships, so this episode, what topic are we covering? We are covering parenthood. You're not pregnant, are you? Nope, okay, are you? Are you kidding? The well is dry, baby. Oh my God, we're gonna throw to our amazing sponsors, they wanna share a few words, and then we're gonna start the show in just a minute. Stay with me. I am so excited that you're here. I am sitting in the TV room at my house in Vermont, our eldest daughter, Sawyer Robbins, who's the co-author of The Let Them Ther- is here with me, and I'm fired up for what we're gonna do today, because you have a ton of questions that you've gathered from friends, from family members, from listeners around the world, Sawyer, and we're gonna wrap it fire through them today, and I know that you're gonna hear something, or laugh at something, or learn something, and you're gonna think, "Oh my gosh, I've never thought about it that way." Or you're gonna think of somebody that you love, and go, "I need to send them this episode right now." And so I'm thrilled that you're here. And if you're new, or somebody shared this with you, welcome to the Mal Robbins Podcast family. All right, so let's just jump right into this. Hi, everyone. I'm Sawyer Robbins. I mustered up all these new parenting questions from friends, family, my siblings, my significant other, about advice we want on parenting. Okay, now I'm not a parenting expert, correct. But you have experienced my parenting. So would you like to go on the record, and at least give some background, because I just wanna make sure that as you're listening, you know, this is your friend, Mel, sharing mistakes made, perspectives gained, things that I did well, things that I didn't do well, but you know, zero, two, ten, how did I do? Throw out the seven. Mel did with what she could. She was a nine. What? Yes. Not an eight? No, you were such a good parent. So let's get it. And we're gonna start off with the first question today. What do you think parents get wrong about preparing their children for adulthood? What I believe that I got wrong is underestimating how capable you are, and reinforcing the message that you can handle it, and that there's a certain amount of struggle that is necessary for you to grow and become an adult, and to become responsible for yourself and the life that you want. And what I probably got wrong and what I always work on is the balance between standing on the sideline and making sure you know that I'm here to support you and not rescuing you from the things that are challenging about life but reminding you that you are capable of figuring it out. You're capable of navigating your way through these challenges. You're capable of learning how to make more money. You're capable of dealing with friend drama. You're capable of figuring out your career. Learning from your mistakes, not stepping in and solving it because it robs you of growth. Before becoming a parent, what did you imagine parenthood would be like? Before I became a parent, I imagine that parenthood would probably be like a Norman Rockwell painting. Lots of time for coloring and playing and pushing on the swings. Lots of calm, happy moments. Everything just sort of flowing and it's really not like that at all. It's better and worse at the same time. I love that. What surprised you most about becoming a mom? My nipples. They turned into sausages that were spraying milk like a spiket. It's disgusting. They're like literally get like this big and this. It's just, oh, God. They go back. Not to the full form, but they go back. What was your first thought when you saw me come out of the womb? Thank God it's over. That's a good answer. Well, you had to be vacuumed out of me. Two weeks late and you did not want to come into this world. You were going to come in on your own time, dammit. They had to jumpstart the labor with Potosan. It was a particularly busy night at Mass General Brigham here in Boston. Everything went wrong. It could have gone wrong. Everything. I remember my mother hitting the button on the wall because I was screaming in pain and they had done three epidural attempts. It was like one o'clock in the morning and I was just a mess. She hit the button on the wall. Everybody came running and they had to vacuum you out and then the placentator and I started bleeding out. I don't actually remember you coming out. I remember being wheeled out to surgery. I was gone for two and a half hours before I got wheeled back in and I was so out of it that I don't even remember coming back into the room. I remember waking up in the room the next morning. I guess it was morning by then and they brought you in. That's what I remember. Except for one thing you. That's what went right. You were perfect. You were truly perfect. Thanks, Mom. That's crazy that that all happened. I don't think I fully knew that full story. Yeah. I knew the vacuum. Yes. I knew that you lost a lot of blood and then you went into postpartum but I didn't realize that you immediately went into surgery and then woke up without having known what basically had happened. They basically handed you to dad who was in a state of shock and everyone was super traumatized by how much of an emergency it was. And my mom and they sat and waited alone in the deliver. Oh my gosh. Until I got wheeled back in and I was basically like my skin was like the color of a dolphin. I had lost so much blood. I was gray. Yeah. I had really wanted and planned for this beautiful birth experience. I wanted to go natural. I don't know why. But I had a midwife. We were also at a hospital. We had taken all the classes and it just sometimes that happens. So I was really scared when I got pregnant with Kendall and we knew some of the medical issues that had gone wrong. So we were able to prepare for them and her birth was like just flawless. And I don't say that because there's a competition. I just say it because sometimes things go wrong. And that's why you want to be in a major medical facility at least for your first birth. So you know what you're dealing with because everybody's bodies are different. And every birth is different. And there's this magical thing that happens in your body. I don't know what it is. Some doctor can explain it. But it's true. You forget. Because I think if women did not forget the pain of childbirth, none of us would have children. Not a second one. But you forget. And it's worth it all. And a hundredfold worth it, a thousandfold, infinitely worth it. What parts of your own childhood did you want to recreate for your kids? Playing in the front yard before and after dinner. I love that. I loved being outside and playing games on our lawn. I loved it. I especially loved it at dusk. We did that a lot. What did you deliberately want to do differently from your own parents? You know, I don't know that I was able to do this. But I really wanted to be a little calmer, a little less reactive. I didn't achieve it. But I think it's a very common experience to feel like I've even heard my own mother talk about this. Feeling like I had no idea what mood my mother was going to be in. I don't even get me surred about my grandmother. Knowing what it must have felt like for her being in a big, raucous family with a mother who literally is going to an institution and would come back after a shock therapy and then be a little nicer but was mean. I think a lot of people have an experience like that. And even when your parents don't mean to be stressed out, you can be a really sensitive kid which I was and so I really wanted to just have a household that felt light and fun. And mine even was growing up but I remember being nervous a lot and nervous about people's moods and nervous that people were upset. And I didn't want to put that on my kids and I know that I did. And I know that I still do. It's definitely something that I work on a lot. And it's very challenging because you really think about it like you're inside your mother. And whatever state she's in, I believe this. I believe the medical experts that are now talking about the fact that the state of your mother when you were inside of her has an enormous impact on the way that your nervous system works. And how could it not? If your mom was under stress, if your mom was going through anything, of course, it's going to impact you. And I happen to have an extremely reactive nervous system. Like the second something seems off, I'm on high alert. The second somebody's mood is angry. I'm like amplifying. The second there's something stressful at work. Like I get very agitated and I don't want to be that way. And so I didn't have the tools when I was younger. Nobody went to therapy in their 20s, 30 years ago. Nobody could afford it. Nobody knew a therapist either. And there were no resources. You don't go to the self-help section at the public library 30 years ago because you would seem like a nut case. You kept it private, which means you suffered in private. And I was in this constant loop with myself where I would wake up and be like, okay, you can do it. And then the stress of life would take over and I'd snap at you kids and then I'd apologize and I'd feel like the world's crappiest mother. Or I'd be mad at your dad because we were struggling financially and I was mad at him because he couldn't get his career together. And I felt a ton of pressure, which is kind of similar to a lot of the pressure I feel now come to think of it. But it's all on me and it really triggers me. I have a question. Because I myself am also reactive and I'm also reactive. I blow up, I get very emotionally flooded and then I go silent. And I can't process my emotions fast enough to be able to communicate properly. And so I stay silent and then I just blow up. And I've noticed this pattern in me. I will not say where it has derived from, but when I think about my own, like my own path and my own journey of becoming a mother, what can I do from now until then to help ease that even though I don't have kids to practice with or etc. Obviously, I have you and other people who I'm reactive with. I'm in therapy, I have tools, but I still have not mastered that. Do you want me to listen if you want advice? Great work. She's learning. No, I want advice. I know that it has taken you a lifetime and you're still working on it and I know it will take me a lifetime and I'm still working on it. But I guess my ask is what is the number one thing that has helped you? Well, the number one thing that has helped me not be as emotionally reactive as I used to be is recognizing that I didn't want to be. When you make a decision that you no longer want to be this version of yourself, that's the first step to changing. And being in the cycle where you continue to be emotionally reactive and that if you're like me, you blame in a work and then you apologize and then you're emotionally reactive and then you blame it on the stress of work or the stress of your parents or your stress of child or whatever it may be, you're just in a pattern, but you have not made a decision to change it. Yeah. Do not wait until you are a parent to try to change this. Your everyday life right now provides the opportunity for you to become less reactive. And one of the gifts of having a lot of emotional sensitivity is you are a deeply feeling person, you have incredible instincts, you care very deeply. It's a matter of going from zero to a hundred and a nanosecond and not being able to get yourself back down to a 50. Yeah. That's the issue. It's recognizing when it's happening and you're hitting a hundred and then it is finding tools that get you to a 50 faster and without harming or sliming other people around you. And so number one, make a decision that you don't want to be that way. Number two, if I were doing this in my 20s, I would borrow, may I quote one of the experts on the podcast for this purpose? Okay. Always. So I love the Gottman's Gottman Institute, one of the most esteemed and respected and renowned researchers in the world on relationships and they've been married for 40 years. And when they came on the podcast, it was like literally interviewing the Muppets. I know. A couple of their results. I remember. And they rolled played all of these scenarios where somebody gets emotionally agitated. And that would be me. I'm a volcano. And the other person gets emotionally flooded and shuts down. That's you and your father. And if you're a person that's a volcano like me, and you get agitated and you're dealing with somebody like you who shuts down, your shutdown makes me more agitated because I feel more alone. I know. And that just scares you more because you start going, there's nothing I can do here. I don't know what to do here, which is exactly what happens to your dad and we've been dealing with this dynamic for 30 years, this is incredibly common in couples. Because if you think about it, two volcanoes together is an explosive relationship. Yeah. Doesn't work. But a volcano with somebody that goes silent, both of you have an opportunity to heal these patterns from your past and to work together at moving through moments where you're emotionally flooded and finding that connection. And that's what a great relationship can do is you can start working on it now. And Dr. Gottman did one of the coolest things. He has this trick because he is the one that goes like a turtle. Okay. My shell. She's mad. Hyde. That's me. And dad. Yes. But you guys look stoic. So when you shut down, you have a face that doesn't look scared. No, I look like I'm going to like kill someone. Yes. Yeah. And dad just looks like he's on a different planet. Pisses me off because I'm like, I don't hear anything because I'm shut down and I'm a turtle in a shell right now. But you probably feel unsafe. Yeah. And the irony is when I get like upset about something, I feel unsafe. So let me just ask you one question. When you, for those of us who shut down, and we're with someone who blows up, what does make you feel safe? And someone yells back at you and someone's like, no, no, no, no, I don't want to yell that. No, no, no. Okay. So what would make you feel safe in those very heightened moments? It's two things. It's to have somebody acknowledge the stress or frustration or the thing that I'm upset by. Okay. Comely, of course. Yeah. I understand. You have a right to be upset. And that acknowledgement immediately makes me feel less alone. And then you saying, and I'm going to give you a hug and then I'm going to leave the room because you need to calm yourself down before I can help you talk about this. Great. Okay. Back to the Gotmans. So, Dr. Gotman is a person that shuts down, he becomes a turtle and he said, whenever his wife, the volcano erupts, and he's got to talk about, why did you leave there? And he's like, shut down. He has a technique where he has a little notepad. And he slowly pulls the notepad out of his pocket. And he flips it open and he pulls out a pen. As the other person's going crazy and then he says, no, slow down a minute. I just want to make sure I'm getting this. And he then starts to write down what the person who's upset about is saying. And he said what that does is it slows his heart rate. And it helps him organize his thoughts. And it signals to you that you're not alone and that he's listening. And it's a way for him to calm himself down and get his thoughts down and stall until he can think of something to say. Yeah. I love that tool because I feel like that's what's happening when I shut down is I'm like just stalling. Like, my brain is not working fast enough than what my body feels. And so it's not that I like, I genuinely don't know what to say. Yes. And that means your body is working correctly because if I'm a volcano, you're under threat. So your thinking skills go out the window because if you're under threat, you need to defend yourself. You don't need to be thinking about anything. You need to run. Your heart is racing. You have the impulse to get out of there. You don't know what to do. So that's just a sign that you're in fight or flight. And so pulling out and open me like I understand I know you're upset you're right to be upset hold on a second Let me just get my notepad That is just a that what that's doing is it's giving you a physical thing to do that helps you create a pause Mm-hmm between the stimulus the other person yelling. Yeah, and you physically doing something the notebook flip it open get the page out Okay, I see that you're upset. I understand. Yeah, tell me what's going on and That is how you can start to practice the pause and how you can start to go from a hundred oh my god I'm under threat to start to bring yourself back down to 50 That's what I would do Incredible This feels like a great moment to take a quick break to give our amazing sponsors a chance to share a few words and do not go anywhere I'm looking at her clipboard and we got a lot more to cover when we return to stay with me You Welcome back it's your friend Mel Robbins and today I'm here with our oldest daughter Sawyer She's the co-author of the Let Them Theory book and she has a clipboard of questions about love and relationships with her And we are just rifling through them. I'm so thrilled you're here. All right, Sawyer. Let's just jump right back into it What's the next question? What's one thing me Kendall and Oakley each individually have taught you about yourself? Hmm This is a great question Well, let me let me start with Oakley so So Oakley Almost dying when he was five days old I Think like really taught me how much I wanted to be a mom Um, and how much you can love somebody in just five days, you know, and uh He is such a light like even even in the in the mic you Those big blue eyeballs And he's still like that He has taught me to be in a good mood for no reason That's what Oaks taught me Kendall Who I would say I'm probably the most she and I are the most similar. I Think she is just She's really shown me like what it's like when you have a deep calling And you have no choice but to follow it like I am I am extremely moved and proud of her for pushing through all of her fears and pursuing a very very difficult career of wanting to be a recording artist in a musician and a singer songwriter and Just watching her do it on her own and Figure it out and wake up every day and chart a path in a career that doesn't have one And to know as she says there's no plan B like she is a burn the boats person and she's definitely taught me that A lot of success in life and a lot of meaning in life comes from Having something that means a lot to you that you're committed to no matter what through all the doubt through the ups and downs She's definitely taught me a lot about that and also I think what a gift It is to share your gifts with people Like I have this friend Carl who says you know when you get to heaven you gotta make sure your pockets are empty You got a lot of gifts to give in this lifetime whether it's your smile or a book you're gonna write or in her case a song that you're meant to sing Do not get to heaven with your pockets full you want to give your gifts while you're here and so That sounds straightforward, but it's not always that straightforward There's a lot that you have to confront in order to feel worthy of the gifts that you want to give to give yourself permission to give Those gifts to keep giving the gift even when nobody wants to receive it To see the value in it when maybe nobody else does Huh, and then that brings me to you, so I um And what you've taught me you have taught me to be brave I cannot believe The things that you have taken on I cannot believe it The other thing you've taught me is having conviction about something I remember in seventh grade we went to visit your grandmother JJ and she was living for four months in Cambodia teaching English at an elementary school This was what she did define purpose after losing her husband your grandfather of 40 years And we went over there to visit her and we came back and you turned to us and you said I want to go back and Go back to Cambodia and we're like well, that's great. That was a once in a decade trip dude like calm down We don't have the money We're that's a once in a lifetime trip. We're not doing that again And then you're like no, no, no, go into the principal and No, I don't think you understand. I'm going and then you did it again When you said when I graduated from college, I am traveling solo around Asia and you worked for three years and you saved all the money and then to my complete horror you And your backpack Got on a plane and what I also love about you is that you Have the courage of the conviction and then you make it happen and you spend the first three days hyperventilating and crying. Yeah Always talk to me about that I feel like I'm so I know exactly what I want a lot of the time and I think about those things for years. So like The Asia thing when I was 13 that was just A very rare like I have to do this in my body soul like I'm gonna make this happen. I'm gonna homeschool myself I'm going to go to the principal. I'm going to go for four months and teach English to Cambodia and kids I'm gonna bring all my textbooks like That was I think set me on a very clear trajectory of always putting myself out there and and then just be clear for the first two weeks We did zoom calls every day where you would be sobbing uncontrollably in this very dark hotel room And I felt like the world's worst mother and then I started to have nightmares What happens if JJ dies and she's over there alone There is nobody else. What am I doing? I have sent My daughter to Cambodia With a 77 year old what kind of mother am I like what what happens if something she has epilepsy? What what if she has a seat like a nicer to But anyway within two weeks you worry a different person. Yeah, I think that I always like Hanek I can get myself there. I can get myself on the plane. I can get myself to do the hard thing I can get myself in the chair but once I'm sitting there for the first it's finally then that I realize that I'm doing it And then all the fear and all the angst and all the reality of it happening hits me then versus before my decision And so then I have to like own my decision because I'm sitting in it and I think that there's a lot of Experiences in my life that have made me sit in those Experiences whether it's Cambodia whether it's going to camp and crying for two weeks straight and sending letters home Because I have no technology that like I hate my life pick me up and then after two weeks I'm like I love it don't pick me up and There's just like a lot of experiences that I've Put myself in that have forced me to move through those really hard Moments in the beginning, but I always know that I'm better off for it in the end You know what's really cool about this is that it kind of shows you there's two types of people It's the same thing about going on tour. What do you mean when I literally cried myself Like to sleep for two weeks straight when we went on tour for the first time and the second time Because I was so nervous about speaking on stage But I had already committed I had already planned the whole tour I had already gotten all the content together like we had Co-created this and then it was the night before where I'm about to go out on stage where I have a full-blown Diarrhea to hyperventilating panic screaming attack. It was so bad that In the morning in Australia, I actually thought okay She's she didn't go home like she can't do this. Yeah, but I'm gonna have to do this entire thing on my own And it's a tour that's written for two people But the whole time that I'm screaming crying. I'm saying like I'm gonna do it I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna do it. I just need to like move through that What's interesting is that You there's two types of people there are people who feel that fear before they commit and they never commit and they spend Their entire life thinking about what they want but feeling emotionally flooded and talking themselves out of it before they even do it And what you're talking about is this ability to be brave and bravery does not exist without fear You have this ability through the courage of your convictions to commit No one That once you land in the seat, you're going to hate it, you're going to get emotionally flooded and become a turtle with diarrhea who's crying for two weeks and regretting it, but you then remind yourself, I can do this. I can do this. I can do this. I can do this. This is just the hard part and my hard part comes after it starts not before. That's a gift that it comes after. Yeah, wow. I think it's a gift, but it's also I've trained myself to be like that. I've put myself in situations where I had no out. I was in Cambodia. I'm not flying home tomorrow. We barely have the money to fly me over there. I'm at camp. I have no way of contacting you to come home. I'm going on service trips and other places in the United States and I am unable to leave. So I think growing up has always been there's no other options. It's always through. You have no out. The obstacle is the way. Yes. I love hearing these questions that you pull together and I have no idea what you're going to ask me next. So let's take a quick break. I got to go to the bathroom and I need to get a cup of water. And I also kind of want to gather myself because I know you probably have a doozy next and don't you go anywhere when we return more on parenting. Stay with me. Welcome back. It's your friend Mel Robbins. Today you and I are talking all things parenting. I'm here in my TV room in Vermont with our oldest daughter Sawyer Robbins. My cat Mr. Noodle is on my lap and I'm hanging out with you. All right, so let's jump right into this. What do you hope I understand about you as my mom that I may not fully understand yet? Just how much stress I'm under right now and how hard I'm crying and that I don't mean to have a terrible tone of voice. It's actually the one thing I don't want to be is harsh and hostile. And to take my emotions out on you guys and you're not. It's not your fault. And it's not your responsibility to fix the things that are stressing me out or to make me happy or to calm me down. And I apologize that for a lot of your life you probably felt like you had to walk on eggshells or you were tired of having a mom and you didn't know what mood she was going to be in or you were bracing as I was walking in the door because nine times out of 10 I was stressed or pissed off at your dad because we were struggling and I wish I could have handled that better because as a child it's not fair that I put my adult stress on you and I still working at it. You've come such a long way though like truly and I've seen you put in all the work. I've seen you regulate your nervous system. I've seen you use the tools that you've been given from your therapist. And she's meditating every single morning and night to try to calm it down. So I do really want to give you credit for continuing to work at it and no one's perfect. And like you said, everyone does the best job that they can with what they were given and you have done the best job you have been able to do with what you were given. Okay, well, I am horrified whenever I experience myself acting in a hostile or reactive way because it's the last thing I want to be. And I don't want to leave people in a state where they're nervous around what kind of mood I'm going to be in. And it's a hard thing to manage when you're going through a very stressful period in your life or career, which I am right now. And so it's very much front of mind. Yeah. And I think you guys see me as somebody who's like super strong and very opinionated and bulldozing through life. And that's my outside demeanor. Like when I come home, I am still want to have fun. I still, I need hugs. I need more compliments. I, you know, want to have more girl time and be softer with each other. And you guys favor dad so much and lift that up and he's an amazing human and I lift him up to and he's my favorite person. And I also imagine that because I get so much public, like attention that you're compensating for what dad may not be receiving. And it does feel a little bit like he's everybody's favorite and I'm the monster. Well, I thank you for sharing that and I know you've shared that forever. And I am sorry that you feel that way. And I think that me, Kendall and Oakley, we are never intending to make you feel on the outside or making it is never our intention to make you feel like dad's our favorite. I think that we have grown up receiving love from you and dad in very different ways. You, because your mother did this, your love growing up was gifts. Yes. Your love growing up was solving problems. Your love growing up was, let's go on a big shopping spree. That is how you showed your love. So we learned that if we want something, go to mom. It is very hard to rewire that. And so if you want that to change, then let's talk about it and let's work on it. But that is in our nervous system. When we grew up with dad, the way in which dad showed us love was listening. He was also the stay at home parent. So he was with us 24/7. And as a result, for anything that's joyful or news or whatever, we go to him because he listens. You are a practical problem solver. Yes. And he is a passive problem solver. What does that mean? I love this. Okay. I come to you for tasks. I come to you for check boxes. Because I know it checks. It checks. I would never go to dad for a doctor's appointment. I would never go to dad for a medical reason. Whenever I've been in the hospital or anything which has been like twice, but like I've called you. Like you are for emergencies. You are for flights. You are for like I need stuff to get done. I trust mom. I don't trust dad. And you look at that is a bad thing. We go to dad when we want to be heard. Because we don't want a solution. We don't want me to come to you with boyfriend troubles or other thing troubles. And you to be like, well, here's a therapist that you should really get him into. Oh, here's a doctor's appointment that I'll set him up with. Oh, here's five tips from this podcast guest that if you don't listen that episode, your relationship is not changing. Like we go to you for different things. Nothing is better or worse. You look at it as worse. Dad has expressed he would love for us to come to him for helpful tasks. He wishes that we would go to him for money and we don't. Ever it demoralizes him that we don't go to things to him that we go to for you. You guys both feel the same way. But you don't communicate about that. You just feel like dad is our hero. And you are like a failure. Well, I don't communicate with dad about it because it's not an issue that I have a dad. It's an issue I have with you guys. Well, I think you need to change your perspective or we need that that's very helpful because like if you want us to come to you for good news, then I think even using that tool we talked about today about like, great, let me just listen. And I think another difference between you and dad is like, like you said, dad is a slow processor. But I should say deep processor, but he's very you solve a problem with him with you, you solve the problem. And it's like, I'm going to you could when I have five minutes, I'm going to dad when I have two hours. And I feel like because of that, he is forced to listen, he is forced to be there. He is very present with us. And I think sometimes with you, if we come to you, it feels like you have because of your ADD, ADHD, like you literally have 50 million things on your mind. So it doesn't actually feel like you're present with us. So if I want to talk about something that's really hard to talk about or deep or I really want someone, my parents attention, I'm probably not going to come to you because I don't feel like you're going to give me the presence that I think I just want or deserve. That makes sense. I can work on that. Yeah, when I have time, I'm just going. No, I appreciate that. It makes a lot of sense. I also feel like it has a lot to do with the fact that for some reason, as a daughter, and I know you feel like this with your own mom, like, I care so much more about your validation than I do dads. And I care so much more about what you think of me than dad. Really? Yeah. And I know Kendall feels the same way. And I don't think it has to do with the fact that you have a big career. I don't think it has to do with the fact that what you've created in your life or who you are as a person, I see this in all my friends. Do you think it's because a lot of us are emotionally dysregulated? Yes, and unstable. And so the approval is actually your, your seeking calmness and safety and belonging rather than, I don't know, like I, well, I feel like there's a lot of like, like women have been suppressed for decades. And I think now we're in a generation in an age where women more than ever are empowered to be choosing their own adventure and making decisions in their life and choosing who they get to marry versus being forced. And I think the, it's almost like the overwhelming amount of agency we feel as women brings resentment. It's like flip-flopped, like before it was all, I have no agency. And I'm completely reliant on my husband. And now I have all the agency and all the possibilities and all the ability to make my life the best it could possibly be. And I'm the caregiver and I'm doing the dishes and I'm doing the lunches. And I'm still taking care of the kids. And I now have to make just as much money as my husband to be able to afford a house. Like it's almost like there's so much more added onto our plate. And I don't know why that connects directly to mother daughters, but I can look around like everyone in this room right now and think about every one of my friends. And there's nine times out of 10. It's about the mother that is brought up rarely are my friends talking about their dads. And I just feel like there's so much. There's such an imprint of you on us and such a desire for us to be our own person and find our own way and not feel like I don't know. I I bet a lot of it has to do with honestly growing inside of you and just feeling so much energetic connection because we talk about this all the time. As soon as my mom rolls her eyes or I like my tone goes completely angry, we notice it immediately. The energy shifts immediately. I notice it with my friends. We had this huge mother daughter weekend. I went to Boston College and I had 10 girls and their 10 moms up in Vermont. This was a few years ago at this point. And you just looking around, you could tell immediately who was in a fight, who was having fun, who was pissed off at each other. Like it's crazy how much our energies are intertwined. And I have heard stories of like some colleagues being like I who don't necessarily have a great relationship with their mom. Like as soon as someone says one word incorrectly, it's like my whole nervous system is shut down. And I feel like it has a lot more to do with how connected we are than how disconnected we are. What do you think? I agree with you. I think there's a much bigger role that society plays in it in how women are treated and feel and the amount of stress that women are under and shifting gender roles and dynamics and the both opportunities as you said it and the pressures that it creates. And the thing that I find interesting though is just how hardwired we are to each other's modes. Yes. And how hardwired we are to take care of each other. Like you feel so much pressure to take care of your kids and provide and be the mother, but we feel equally as much pressure to take care of you and dad. And make sure that you guys are feeling good. Your moods are happy. You're feeling positive. Like it goes both ways and it feels like you as an adult feel this innate need to take care of us, but it flips. Like you guys get old and then we're taking care of you and wiping your ass. Like we're all both trying to take care of each other and trying to make sure we're both okay. And you feel that responsibility. But I think what parents don't understand about their kids is that we equally feel that we equally want you to be good. We equally want you to not be going through a hard time and trying to do everything in our power to solve that. But half the time we don't have the tools to do so, but you do. Yeah. You know one thing that I love about our relationship is the ability to sit down and just crack this open and talk openly about it. Is there anything else that I could do that you may be afraid to ask or that you maybe even didn't know that you needed for me or I didn't know that you need? No, I think what I'll share is something that actually Kendall brought up the other day, which was so helpful. And I've never really thought about. And she shared that she learned this from her therapist to ask for what you need more. And so I and I think this could go for anyone. But so many times we come downstairs and we're in a pissed off mood or we blow up or something's bothering us and we just repeat the pattern that we always do, whether it's shut down or vent or scream or cry or whatever it is. And we become completely irrational and then stop all over everyone who is around us instead of coming down and being like, Hey, I need a hug or I need to be alone right now or I need to work for six more hours and just asking right up front for what you need versus assuming that everyone knows what you need because I think that we had a really long productive conversation about how when one of us goes into one of those tornado modes, everyone else is not only walking on eggshells but also trying to fix the other person's mood. And so many times we never actually acknowledge when the tornado is over. We just move on with our day and then for the rest of the day, everyone's worried about the one person who's in a bad mood. And instead just knocking it out of the park right in the beginning of, hey, so I need to cry right now or hey, so I can I would love some assistance with organizing my closet. Can you please come and help me versus like just blowing up crying being like, oh my god, I'm so stressed out about blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Let me just like flood and vent and puke all over you and then you're left feeling disheveled and crazy. And so I think that that's something that not necessarily you only need to do, like me, you and Kendall need to do and our trio dynamic is just ask each other more for what we need right up front. That's great. I agree. I love you. Thank you so much for joining me in this amazing conversation. Is there anything that I need to do differently as your daughter? My wish for you and you're already doing it. Is to really go to town and attack that emotional flooding that happens. So exactly what you need to do also pretty much because I basically made your nervous system. So with a combination of dads DNA plus you being in my body and the birth was pretty scary. So God knows like what happened there. But I feel that what a gift that you at the age of 27 can be talking about this and recognizing this in yourself. And so I would say stay focused on that and the rest of your life will work out because you will not be ruled by your emotions. You will feel them, but you will be able to communicate through them and think through them and choose how to respond rather than having them run you over the way they have my whole life. That's what my life has been like for 50 plus years. And that's why I'm working hard to not have it be like that. Amazing. I love you. Thank you so much. Thank you. And thank you Mr. Oodle for staying on my lap and thank you. Thank you for being here with me and Sawyer. Thank you for listening to this. Thank you for sharing it with your daughter or your mother or your sister or anybody in your life that you care deeply about. And in case nobody else tells you as your friend, I'm going to tell you that I love you and I believe in you and I believe in your ability to create a better life. And so I hope that there was something that we shared today that resonated, that was helpful, that you're walking away from this conversation, feeling closer to yourself and having something that you can start to practice or share with somebody else. And that's it. I'll see you in the next episode. I'll welcome you in the moment. Hi. What is the topic today? The topic is parenting. Questions about parenting? You're not pregnant. Are you? Nope. Okay. Because I'll answer questions about parenting. I don't know how I feel about grand parenting at the moment. No. No, baby in the oven. No baby yet. Okay. Yet. Well, that's your choice. Your body, your choice. Okay. Do you agree? Oh, yes. Okay, sorry. Your silence makes it seem like she's lying. - I'm trying to think of my next question. Yes, I completely agree. - Why don't you go to therapy? - Okay. - And then when you're done, we'll have you sit back in the chair and do some reactions. And we'll close it out and come back to that one. - Okay, let me just wrap it fire, some of these, and then you don't answer. - Um, try and make these positive or negative. - You don't have to say something. - Is your yeast infection gone? (laughs) - Oh, and one more thing, I know this is not a blooper. This is the legal language. You know what the lawyer's right and what I need to read to you. This podcast is presented solely for educational and entertainment purposes. I'm just your friend. I am not a licensed therapist and this podcast is not intended as a substitute for the advice of a physician, professional coach, psychotherapist or other qualified professional. Got it? Good. (upbeat music) - SiriusXM podcasts.