How Chad Janis Built Grüns Into a $100M Supplement Brand

(upbeat music) - Hey, and welcome back to e-commerce on tap, brought to you by Sourceify and Izba. I'm your host, Nathan Resnick, joined by my co-host, Aaron Halperer. Aaron, for those joining us for the first time on e-commerce on tap, do you wanna give a quick overview of what we're about? - Absolutely, so each episode, Nathan and I profile a well-known, typically D to C company. We tell their founding story, reverse engine, and their supply chain, and talk about their exponential. And this season, we're focused on the supplement industry. We've had some great episodes so far, and another great one today. - Yeah, today we're covering Groans. I was pronouncing it grunts, and Aaron has taught me a bit about the German language and how Groans is technically pronounced, and as we'll dive into their story and their founder, we see that the founder kinda has a bit of a background in Germany, so that's kinda how the name came to be is Groans actually means Greens in the German language, is that right Aaron? - German and Swedish, honestly, so yeah. - There you go, so that's a fun fact of the day, 'cause everyone I've heard, I've heard pronounced it over here, as I was like, grunts, grunts, their growth is crazy, but now we know for a fact it is Groans, and it means Greens in the German language. - Grunts kinda sounds like something that you don't want to have if you take something, it's not good for you. - Groans sounds a little bit more appetizing. - Yeah, definitely, definitely. Well, before we dive into their story and just incredible growth trajectory, is there any kinda tidbits that caught your eye in the past week that you wanna share? - Yeah, there were two that were interesting to me. The first one is that the last penny has been minted. So they're making no more pennies. They've been retired as of November of 2025. They are no longer making any more. They're still valid, so you shouldn't throw them away if you find them, but they're not making any more. And this was initially built as a cost savings measure for the federal government. So this is one of the early doge things that they decided. And the reality is like the metal that goes into a penny is more than a cent. And so people are like, hey, we're spending, I think it was like $60 million a year, basically making new pennies. And they decided to stop doing that. Although there's now this question and this issue it's popping up is, hey, if I am a store and I'm working with people who are dealing in cash and they have changed their foresense, do I give them a nickel? Do I round down? And so there's all these sorts of things that are playing out and there's some stores that are beginning to go back and forth and trying to buy people's pennies. And so it's causing a little bit of an issue, but eventually I think it'll go away. And then the other thing that caught my mind was the collapse of Sonder. Have you heard of Sonder? - Yeah, I've stayed out of Sonder. Did you like it? - Yeah, I mean, overall, it was a really smooth experience and well run, so yeah, I mean, unfortunate news. - Yeah, I got to know Sonder. I was, we had like a six hour delay on a flight to London last year. And I happened to just meet someone who lived a mile away from me who was running their supply chain. So we got to talking for a while. But it was a short term, kind of like a short term rental sort of company. And they partnered with Marriott a little over a year ago and thought was that they could have the bond boy members be able to use Sonder. And they were kind of in difficult financial straights to begin with. And so the thought was that this was gonna help save the company. Turns out that that is not what happened. And Sonder basically ended up a situation where all of these loyalty guests were using it and not paying as much and it was causing more costs than they expected. And so they had to in the partnership and basically shut down overnight. And the crazy thing here is that with Sonder, you can book for a day, a week, a month, a couple months. And they sent that an email basically one Sunday night saying, hey, sorry, but we've broken the partnership. You gotta leave tomorrow. And so it's not a big deal maybe if you're there for one night, but if you're there for a month or two months and you're being told that you have to leave, that's a pretty big impact. And so it's been an interesting piece just to watch out. Obviously sad for the company to go under. But just what does a big company like Marriott do when there's issues like this? Do they lose money and try to take care of their guests? Do they try to stick to what the contract says? And so it's been interesting to see how both companies are responding. Yeah, and I mean, Sonder, they had raised hundreds of millions of dollars and just all that equity completely wiped out. So sad to see both from the guest perspective as well as investor and operator perspective too. Never a fun situation there. And what was on my view this week was SUJU Life, which is kind of this better for you beverage company. They filed their S1 to go public. And I know SUJU because I spent a ton of time in San Diego past decade and became friends with the founder. And they originally sold in 2021 to paying shorts. And they bolted on like buying organics and a few other kind of beverage brands like Slice Soda last year. At the time in 2021, SUJU was doing around $200 million revenue. It probably doubled since then as the estimate. And so they're kind of pushing for a billion dollar IPO here, which is pretty amazing in terms of the kind of PE outcome for this. And I'm hoping they get it. I think it's a great team there. And they've got really strong distribution and a really strong product. And so we'll see. This is like the kind of the second S1 from a consumer IPO that we've seen recently. The other one was once upon a farm. We filed their S1 earlier this year. So they're curious to see how the public markets kind of like them or dislike them. And lately, it seems like a lot of these IPOs have a quite a bit since IP since their IPO date. But we'll see how they perform next year. That's great. Yeah, it's been interesting. Just for the longest time, the M&A market has been closed. And people aren't going public. So it's good to see this stuff coming back into the ecosystem. Totally. Totally. Well, diving into Grooons here, I think what's pretty incredible about Greens and this whole kind of green space is when people think about Green Powder and just this kind of part of the supplement industry, typically I think. And I think most people think of AG1, right? Because they've just done such a good job executing here. Grooons has kind of really become this almost like uncovered giant that I think more people have now realized how big they are. And what they did is just kind of take green supplements and make them into a really healthy gummy, right? And I think in general, most people, especially kids, prefer gummies over powders. And so I think on the surface level, it makes a lot of sense of their execution, right? They kind of just made AG1, but in a chewable form. And their growth has just been really phenomenal, really incredible. And I think before we dive in specifically to their story, I think we should talk about gummies because there is some pretty interesting tidbits from the history of gummies, right? Yeah, completely. It's kind of this thing back and forth, where is it a candy? Is it a supplement? I mean, there's all these things going back and forth. But the concept of gummy candy goes back to the early 20th century in Germany. And I went through-- and I'm doing some very scientific research-- Haribo is the original OG gummy manufacturer. And they started in the 1920s. And this was seen as a candy up until the 1990s. And so regardless of the brand, if you had a gummy fruit snack, whatever, you associate that with candy. And that was the way things worked until the 1990s when the first gummy supplements were introduced. And these functional gummies, as we know them today, were first commercialized in the US. And the first brand was called Yummy Bears, which was introduced in 1995 by hero nutritionals. And it was aimed at children. And you saw things where Disney started to license vitamins. And the Flintstones-- I think you might remember those like Flintstone kid things, the chewables. They transitioned to gummies. And these were basically the market was like very simple multivitamins for kids, H2 to 12. And the insight was pretty straightforward. Kids hated swallowing pills. And the parents wanted something that was more palatable and less likely to cause a meltdown. As a parent of young children today, those meltdowns are awful. And so anything you can do to avoid them and still do what you're supposed to is helpful. And kids thought this was a pretty good deal for them as well, because they thought this was candy. And the candy texture made it feel like they were going to treat. And so this was a really good thing when went all the way around. However, while parents like them and kids like them, pediatricians were really split in terms of where these actual help-- actually helpful or not. And because of the format, the doses were generally very, very low. And they were often missing core vitamins like iron or calcium due to some limitations with the gummy format. And a lot of people saw them as nutritional insurance, but they weren't really seen as clinical strength supplements. And the biggest concern from pediatricians was the sugar. And let's face it, these early gummies were essentially fruit snacks with some vitamins included. And so there's this question of, is this candy dressed up as health care? Or is this actually something that's helpful? Even parents were worried to sundry, because kids thought this was candy. And their parents said they kept over-consuming and eating sorts of things. I think where the industry was in the late 90s was just the thought that behavior of your old compliance, getting people to want to take things on a daily basis, that was better than any of the chemistry. And so, you know, kids were actually eating the vitamin, and it was a win-win, even if it wasn't perfect. Yeah, I mean, I think that's really powerful in Sihair, right? Because most people in general would probably prefer to take a gummy versus a pill or, you know, powder. And I think that's kind of, you know, what made gummies this unstoppable format in terms of just how it's become kind of so popular across, you know, modern culture. Like, hey, you know, would you prefer to be prescribed pills or gummies or powders? You know, what kind of form of consumption you prefer? And, you know, I would think that most people definitely don't want a pill. Maybe it'll, you know, accept the powder, but, you know, gummy in general just kind of, like you said, almost how this candy like feel or texture, right? Yeah, you associated with candy, and it turns out that, you know, adults just happen to be children with, with credit cards, and they hate taking pills as well. And it was kind of nice, this nice little dopamine hit in the morning as part of their, their morning routine. And it was really only a matter of time until the children that grew up taking gummies as quote unquote healthcare became adults and, and one of this as well. And so, you saw companies like by diffusion nature made eventually, Ollie enter into the whole host of categories like multivitamins, fish oil, you know, hair skin nail formulations. You see these a lot like sleep with melatonin or immunity like the vitamin C sort of of gummies. And Ollie was really the winner here in this, in the second wave. They came to market in 2014 and built a supplement brand around design, taste and simplicity. It really wasn't about having the most forward leaning science in terms of gummies. And they sold for hundreds and millions of dollars to unilieversers as a result. And in terms of efficacy, these gummies were seen as a little bit more legitimate in the kids version. But the dose was really limited by the gummy size and the formulation constraints. And, you know, you look at a beautiful formula formulas took off because consumers believed in biotin, even if the evidence was mixed and these sleep and mood gummies gained traction because melatonin and botanicals fit well into the matrix or the structure of a gummy. And so these early gummies still suffered from the perception of high sugar content and high calories and offered an incomplete nutrient profile compared to pills. And, you know, I think it's important to note that like vitamins, degrade faster in gummies and most nutritionists saw them as better for you candies and not serious supplements. Yeah, I mean, that's a great summary in terms of, you know, where gummy format was through 2020. And I mean, I think it was kind of this perception of, you know, is it a treat candy as opposed to kind of this key, you know, supplement type of format that, you know, now both kids and adults, you know, enjoy more than pills, right? And so it just seems like, you know, these are the ones that are more likely to take, right? In terms of, hey, if you've got these options, you're going to choose a gummy. You have to write. And gummies have always sat as a format on the thought line of, you know, these are less dense, less stable, more sugar, but people dramatically prefer them. And so we'll kind of dive in a little bit more into the Groon story and how they changed the paradigm of what gummies could actually deliver. But before we do that, we've got to talk about the founder. Yeah, yeah, totally. I mean, you know, Groon's is kind of this unique dynamic in terms of the founder Chad Janis is definitely unlike most founders we profile an e-commerce on top, right? If you think about our past episodes, a lot of our founders kind of either have this major health scare that provides this unique insight and goes on to really have a kind of passion driven approach to their business or they spend multiple years back back with the Asia and design a new product based on that experience. But Chad, he actually attended BYU right here in Utah, then went on to stand for business school and really his experience in training came from being a founder and then also working in a VC firm, right? And so he started his first company in 2017. It was called Credit Cash, which is basically like a kayak for free flight, but leveraging redemption points across different loyalty programs. And he did that for two years before joining Summit Partners, getting a firsthand experience of the high growth of some of these major TDC brand that Summit was an investor in like Solostov, Chubby's, Brooklyn and Ruggable and Dr. Squatch. And so for most of those companies, he was a poor observer, you know, really seeing their growth firsthand and understanding, okay, how are these, you know, companies getting to such scale so quickly? And I think that it seems from his experience just having that firsthand perspective, it kind of, I think, gave him that founder of it. It should like, hey, you know, I've got to find a category that I can innovate in that has a large tan that I really think I can build a strong business in, right? Yeah, I think, you know, having that front seat that you're talking about is just an amazing laboratory. Yeah, I think he kind of pulled out some key elements that he identified in the most explosive companies that Summit Partners was working with, right? And I think in general, he saw a few things they focused on everyday pain points, who he looked at the branding and marketing behind these companies and how they really kind of intertwined virality into their campaigns and what they did from that front. And he had this experience of taking cream powders every morning and grad school while at Stanford. And within a few days, he mentioned that he became frustrated by the taste and the sediment. And he begun thinking like there must be a better way to do this. And so he eventually started around supplements in his court insight was that compliance matters more than perfection that people won't just take it daily because it's messy or unpleasant even if it's the best formula, right? And so I think he's realizing like, hey, the actual process in which you take this supplement is almost more important than what's inside that supplement, which sounds a little counterintuitive if you think about supplements, you generally want the highest quality supplement. But at the end of the day, if it's a burden to take, probably not as likely to take it every single day, right? And I think that's really kind of what's nice about this technology that it realized around gummies is that they had matured to a point where a company like Bloons could be created here, right? Yeah. And I think we should take a step back and dig into some of the actual mechanics of gumming manufacturing. You know, we had a couple comments for people like, hey, you guys are supply chain people. You're talking a lot about branding and finance that I got. Well, this is a supply chain episode you've been waiting for. And I think that when you take a look at supplements or the beauty industry in general, there's some key components that go into making a gumming. The first and most obvious is you have to have a base. This is what gives it a shape. It's what holds the structure. It holds all the active ingredients. And traditionally, these have been made with gelatin. That gelatin is the exact same stuff that goes into gel. And you would add any sweeteners, waters or other binders in there that help determine how chewy or soft the gummy was actually going to be. And the base is actually extremely important because even though it doesn't have a whole lot of nutritional value to it, the complexity of the base determines how much room you have left in the gummy to put other things in there. And those other things are really the active ingredients. So this can be anything from vitamins or minerals, botanicals, mushroom, CBD, etc. And the challenge is that most active don't play nicely with heat, pH, each other or just plain taste bad. And so these are some of the big limiting factors that gummies have had, you know, for the first 70 years. Once you have your bases and your active, you mix them together. You actually heat the mixture until you reach what's called the right solids content. And it's basically how much of the good stuff is in the gummy. And you want to make sure it's equally dispersed throughout the mixture. So you don't have, you know, all of one thing and a couple and, you know, just the base and a couple of the other gummies. If the mixture is too hot or too wet, the actors will actually break down, meaning that it won't be helpful at all. It's basically just candy at that point. And if it's too cold, it won't set. It'll be very runny. Once you have things mixed, you deposit the warm slurry into thousands of small molds. So again, think about the little bears that you're just seeing. And you really want to make sure that each gummy has the same dose of the active. Once they get cooled, they firm up. And typically you coat them with something so they don't stick together in the back. Makes a lot of sense. I mean, it really sounds very similar to how jello or candy would be made. I mean, is that far off in terms of the process? It's pretty close. I mean, that's really how it's been for the longest time. And, you know, the first era of these supplement gummies in the 1990s were really just that. It was candies and vitamins. And this was because gelatin was the universal base. And there are, there are some properties about gelatin that just make it difficult for supplements. The first is that it has a very low heat tolerance and low pH stability, which means that only very basic vitamins can be added in small doses. So think vitamin A, vitamin C, DE. If you try to add nutrient density gradients like cream powders or probiotics or adapted genes minerals, they either get destroyed in the gel. They taste terrible or they precipitate out. And so these gummy vitamins early on were essentially just fortified candy with trace nutrients. And so you think about like the pediatrician saying, Hey, I don't know if this is actually helpful or not. It's true because we're just feeding kids candy. But in the 2000s, the base format, which was still primarily gelatin, started to change. And people began to experiment with pectin. And pectin has allowed for better flavor systems to come on board. You have more stable sweeteners and binders and early micro encapsulation or active ingredients. And this allows you to start playing with some of the larger vitamin doses. And so you can fit more of the active stuff into the into the into the gummy. And there are simple ingredients like melatonin or biotanin vitamin C that are now available in a gummy format. And this is really the insight that let Oli launch 2014. They had great branding. But they didn't really have the the great gummy chemistry that we see later to support where they wanted to be. And so they you know their insight was let's just treat supplements like a beauty product and used all the time. And then you get to the 2010s and there were three main breakthroughs that advanced the the chemistry of gummies. The first was that pectin went from being an experiment to really the standard in terms of bases. And again this allows you to have higher heat tolerances and broader pH ranges. You can position as vegan or vegetarian. And it's just was was help more moisture overall. And with pectin you can start to put earthy or grassy ingredients in the gummies. And you did this without them dissolving the gel or turning into a sludge. The second big breakthrough was the process of micro encapsulation. And this allows manufacturers to basically take the molecule and put something else around it so that you can hide the taste of a really bitter ingredients or you can control for time release so that things pitch your stomach and then are released over time versus flooding all at once. And this allowed manufacturers to add in minerals and botanical extracts and probiotics and things like that. And you know with this you start getting more and more sophistication in terms of depositing equipment. People are able to add these active ingredients. In mass you able to take the solid concentrate which again is is the good stuff that goes in the gummy from 65% all the way up to 82%. So now it's just a better vehicle to do these nutrients. And then lastly in like the late 2010s early 2020s these functional gobbies really became a validated format with a couple other breakthroughs. The first was that manufacturers were able to create really low sugar matrices and sugar substitutes. And this allowed them to take an enormous amount of sugar out of the what was candy before. And taking it out was helpful from a health perspective but also made room for them to put in more active ingredients. And so now you can look at 50 to 60 nutritional active that are in a gummy compared to just a dozen a few years ago. Again more more steps forward in flavor masking and then the co-manufacturing ecosystem really matured in about the 2018 timeframe where up until 2018 if you wanted to produce a gummy you were talking to a company that produced candy as well as supplements. And starting in 2018 you start to see companies that are only focused on gummy supplements come out. And these are like a new class of world class manufacturers that allow you to do things like layered gummies, low temperature depositing, process stability, all sorts of really sophisticated things that are more common with pharmaceuticals than candy production. Yeah I mean I think that's really kind of the catalyst that enabled grunts to manufacture its products with these contract manufacturers right. I mean Chad brought this to market at a time where it just kind of became possible to do so right. And so kind of his initial steps were exploring you know 20 plus contract manufacturers through 2022 to understand you know what was possible what is possible. And you know he learned that most contract manufacturers are primarily focused on single benefit gummies. You think like sleep or beauty or immunity and not you know multi ingredient blends and you know eventually over time he narrowed his kind of fuel of site to manufacturers that could handle high active formulas and run kind of these low sugar production runs while maintaining these flavor profiles and you know stale to you know a ton of volume right. And so I think like a lot of manufacturing kind of discoveries that we've covered of founders going through this process on e-commerce on tap it takes a ton of trial and error right. I mean the initial kind of tests and the initial batches of grunts of grunts didn't pass these stability tests right or they had texture issues. And so you know you can imagine putting yourself in Chad's shoes thinking hey I want to bring this you know green supplement as gum a gummy form to market. And he had to literally go through 20 plus contract manufacturers that were already producing gummies but then had to narrow them down to understand okay you know where's your contract manufacturers can actually produce this you know specialized type of gummy with high active formulas. And then you know really understand and try to dive into shelf life which is a huge point for retail distribution right which we'll you know see either in thousands of stores across the country. And the melting issues as you ship it you know you think you're shipping your product across Arizona well good luck if you haven't faced those those melting issues right and that's a huge part of gummy manufacturing that he had to really uncover for himself right. And at the same time that he's learning the manufacturing process and becoming really an expert in gummy manufacturing he's also building his team and kind of stays primarily through his Stanford network kind of fine not only really team members but testers advisors and investors and he finds key hires that focus on ops and supply chain and branding and he says that you know in his Stanford business school class about 25% of his class tested early versions and their feedback really shaped the flavor profile and texture. And I think one key insight that he says that they have rather than trying one massive super gummy they get split the dosage by telling people to take six rate gummy gummy is instead of one or two to get the recommended dosage I mean kind of seems fun to have more more gummies and less right. Well yeah and it's it's actually really smart because if you think about one of the major issues that people had with gummies in fact it's just I can't fit all the stuff in there and so you know I guess like maybe they could have made like an apple size gummy but that would be just kind of weird but you say hey take eight of these and you know if it feels like candy why not why did they settle in the name groons yeah so groons you know means greens in a lot of the kind of germic and scandidaeian languages and shout it's meant two years in germany doing volunteer work and had become fluent in germin which is probably top of mind as he was exploring a company name and so I think it has this kind of visual identity and the name ties directly to the category without being kind of too generic and it's definitely instantly recognizable right it's you know gloons and it's got the kind of two dots above the you for a little bit of visualization for those that are listening and not familiar with the brand and I would say it is pronounced yeah you can pronounce it pretty easily but I think most people say gruns you know I say gruns before my my German lesson so you know it's definitely different than you know ajuwan or bloom or alley but you know I think with all of this research and all the testing it gets us to this point in 2023 when the brand finally launched what does that launch look like yeah it is really something where they they went to market pretty much as soon as they could meaning from a technology perspective this nobody else was doing this and they had a very bold promise and that was to take the most comprehensive greens or functional nutrition stack out there and pack it into a gummy and they really differentiate differentiated themselves from ajuwan and other powders and from other gummy vitamin brands which only had a few active and they wanted to give you the benefit of what many other brands were offering without messy powders or pills and they wanted the consumer to really look forward to taking this I mean again having taken ajuwan and having eaten gummy bearers I know that there's one that is much more enjoyable than the other although I you know I know that ajuwan is good for me but they launched in May of 23 as a D to C only brand and they were offering some subscriptions but they only had a single hero skew and that was a grab and go snack pack and each pack contained eight gummies and it had like it was like a mixed berry type of flavor and the core formulation was 60 whole food ingredients vitamins A to Z greens fruit vegetables adaptogens mushrooms and a prebiotic fiber and just like aji one it was a product with a really big promise you know take this and it'll help solve or fill in all the nutritional gaps to have and they priced it about 80 bucks for a 28 day supply which was competitive with aji one and yeah that's what they launched with and and kind of went to market pretty quickly yeah I mean I think it kind of is this interesting dynamic right because you've got this you know core formula that people know aji one for and now runs launches obviously in this gummy format and you know I think despite being in market they continue to iterate on their product you know quite a bit in the first year and I think that's kind of a key point for founders to take note of like hey you know don't wait till your product is completely perfect go to market get feedback iterate and that's really what you know they did here because they switched to the methylated minerals to approve bio availability and their gummies right they rework kind of greens blend to improve taste and nutrient stability and they adjusted sweetener systems to support both low sugar and sugar free skews and so they kind of continue to you know optimize like serving size and portion packaging and all of this through their first year that I think is a key point. for founders, right? Because so many people wait too long to launch. And like in general, your product's never going to be perfect. You should always be having this constant customer feedback loop. And I think that's what they did really well on in the first year of gathered feedback from their customers to understand how can we improve our product. And it shows, right? Because they're growth speaks for itself. Yeah, and I think that there's this constant tension between perfect versus good enough. And I think that the key thing here is is what Grun's appeared to do was they put forward their best foot. But they also were nimble enough and had low enough inventory and started off partners to say, we're going to make this better. We're going to take your feedback and we're going to look at this. And that's really the name of the game here is, yeah, get to market with something you think is good and provides value today, but also be really flexible and get going whether you're building a tech product, you know, make sure you've got plenty of dev budget available to iterate and rebuild the product in that first year. Or in your launching a product, actual physical good. I think it's so important that you don't you're not sitting on two years worth of inventory at launch. It's better to stock out. It's better to be lower because you're able to iterate that way. Yeah. And I mean, unlike EG1, they decided to launch other products and product lines pre-quiply, right? So late 2023, they launched the sugar free daily gummy. You know, low sugar was previously the default in 2024. They launched the runes cubs, which I think is great branding. It's the, you know, their kids line and those were kind of snack packs that contained four gummies per day and had this kind of tangy fruit and softer chew. And they also reduced the greens blend in that product and lowered kind of the vitamin dosage, of course, for kids. And I think kids, this category is, you know, in terms of like supplement gummies is only a category that all is dominated. So this is definitely strategic move on their end. And then late 24 and 25, they introduced multi-week pouches as well as, you know, three pack or six pack bundles to be optimized for their D to C subscription business. And so they also then expanded into other flavors like the Mixberry, Watermelon, Berry, Tropical Punch. And, you know, these are high active supplement gummies, not candy, right? But the more flavors you add, the more complex the stability becomes, you know, and there's obviously supply chain variability here as well. And so I think it's, you know, kind of a key point that they have these core product lines, but they also expanded flavors. It's, you know, drastically different than AG1's strategy was, you know, just recently expanded into the product line. So I mean, it's rumor that they're exploring additional categories such as, you know, energy gummy and then mutated gummy and a sweet gummy. And I think, you know, it makes a lot of sense. So I mean, hats off to their execution there. Yeah, they really seem like they are working and innovating with a huge degree of urgency, despite all the growth they have. What have been the results so far? I think they've been pretty good from what we saw. Yeah, I mean, it's honestly really, really amazing to see their execution here. So, I mean, their growth in terms of revenue, I'll just start with that because I think it's pretty, you know, mind blowing for people that are unaware of the brand. In May 2025, they reported the ship 4 million gummies per day across all their channels. I mean, imagine that 4 million gummies a day and they reached over 100 million an ARR and raised the 35 million dollar series B at a 500 million dollar valuation. And so, you know, this kind of goes in terms of fun raising from like a pre-seed in August 23 to a $6 million C in February 24 to a $10 million series A in May 25 and then a $35 million series B in May. So I mean, now they're throughout Sprouts, where they launched in December 24. They're over 1,600 targets to stores that they launched in February 25 and they're 1,900 Walmart stores and you grow a 25. And so, I mean, it almost seems a bit caught lightning in the bottom, right? Because literally go from like just starting and just formulating in 22 to launching in 23 to just having this like incredible growth curve. I mean, how much of it was around kind of the technology manufacturing versus the branding versus, you know, Chad's experience, you know, at some of partners. I mean, versus consumer, you know, insight. I mean, it's just really remarkable to see this type of growth. Oh, yeah. I mean, the pace of the fun raising is really what got me. I mean, if CrunchBase and Pishbook are correct, there were only two months between a $10 million series A and a $35 million series B, which, you know, like I don't know how that conversation goes where the money basically hits your account and then you're like, all right, well, I'm going to keep fundraising. And I think that Chad's background in deploying VC and having these connections and being able to really show them exactly why this makes sense and why this is a good move for their portfolio with something that is, you know, you can't underestimate. I mean, just the fact that he's able to speak the investor's language, like, yeah, this is great. Like, let's keep doing this is really good. I think that there's also an element here where there's really just the sense of urgency that they've got. And I think that this technology has barely come online. And they were really the first one to take advantage of it in a major way. And that sense of urgency is so interesting. And I think the difference between AG1 kind of saying, hey, we're going to have one product and just will be on version 15 of it, you know, 15 years in is one way to do it. And they've built a wonderful business as a result of that. But these guys are saying, hey, we want to own all of gummies and we want to kind of expand as much as we can as opposed to just having one hero product. And I think it's like one of those businesses where you're like, who are all these customers, right? And it's just pretty incredible to see in terms of their numbers. Because I think with some of the other supplement brands or beauty brands that we've covered, like, you know, I have friends, our friends of friends, or I've personally tried them wherever maybe. And here I feel like their market penetration is almost like just starting in some sense. Yeah. To be so confident in your numbers that early on in this quickly is really impressive for I think any brand, right? Because I'm sure they're doing some sort of formula around CAC and LTV in a payback period there. And it just is really impressive to see and to have that confidence to go out and execute like this. Yeah, you bring up a really good point there. And I'm curious how many of our listeners here have tried grooms. So, you know, it could be that you and I are just the lagers and we haven't done it yet. But do you think that there's risk here to the business of being just so new? And, you know, if it all, if it is just like the VC echo chamber that's buying these things, is that a durable business? Or, you know, is the fact that they're at the beginning of their market penetration more of a risk or more of a plus in your opinion? Yeah, I think it's an opportunity. Their distribution is super strong and it's only in the US right now. So, I think if we look forward here, there's definitely more meat on the bone and that they're still growing quickly. So, they can start, you know, international sales probably can't it is an easy next step for them. They've grown pretty aggressively across channels, which is good to see, right? Most people start with one channel and slowly expand. They've gone pretty aggressive across channels. And I think the brand is getting some attention, right? It's definitely not mainstream yet. But I could definitely see in the next two years becoming mainstream. I mean, I actually bet, you know, two or three years are going to have a super bulk commercial. So, let's see if that happens. But, you know, I think the plan is definitely to max out their US distribution network before looking to go international. And obviously, they still have a ton of on-tap market potentials here, state side. You know, they've got kind of the compliance and regulation figured out here in the overall, you know, system to scale. So, I think probably they'll expand into other retail partners like CVS and Walgreens. Definitely more types of SKUs you think about, you know, the product category catalog right now. They definitely kind of already hinted that they're going to do, you know, an energy gummy and immunity and continue to expand flavor. So, I think in general, they're in a really strong position to grow right now. And they obviously have, you know, the funding to execute on that plan. Yeah, I think you're right. And, you know, one of the challenges with supplements is that it's so easy to start a brand in the US because the regulatory framework is pretty loose if you want to call that. We dove into that pretty deeply in our kickoff episode. But expanding into other countries, there's just a higher regulatory burden. It doesn't mean they can't do it. It's just going to be more difficult. So, I think you're absolutely right that they will probably just focus on the US for as long as they possibly can. And then when it's time to expand internationally, that's when they'll probably look at saying, you know, the time is right for an acquisition. You know, I thought about this a little bit as well. I mean, do you have any initial thoughts on, you know, who, who the acquirers could be? Yeah, that's a good question. I feel like on this trajectory and maybe with the IPO market opening up, I feel like in the next two or three years, I could even go public to have that option. In terms of acquirers, there's definitely kind of that dynamic of the liquid IV acquisition and all the kind of human levers, health and wellness division here that probably keep it a close eye on on grooms. What kind of caught your eye in terms of strategic acquisitions that would make sense? Yeah, I mean, I look at this and I would be surprised if Unilever's health and wellness division doesn't acquire grooms. I mean, they bought Oli liquid IV neutral foal smarty pants like they've been very active in the gummy space from an acquisition point of view and they have a really good track record of growing these businesses with the exception of Oli, which is, you know, Grunz is kind of eating their lunch, they've done really, really well and they love taking really strong brands and and target and adding them into retail with target and Walmart and things like that. I think if you had to broaden the aperture a little bit, I think there's a couple of other companies who could make sense. The first one comes to mind is is farmer might they make the nature's made vitamin category, which is like the number one vitamin in Costco and just in the country. They're really interested in younger brand-line assets that and they think that, you know, maybe moving into functional gummies would be a pretty good move. And they have a lot of manufacturing expertise and scale. So I could see as something where they say, hey, we can we can do this. We can bring in a house and we'll have this technology. Nestle is also an interesting one. They've been getting into things like beverages and powders and bars and pills, but they don't really have a hero gummy brand. And so they generally want to expand into wellness and so greens could fit well with the Nestle bear owns, you know, one a day in Flintstones. These are more legacy brands. And so, you know, this could be a really good halo brand and a new format and something a little bit more youthful and in Gen Z. Church and white has a bite of fusion, which is really one of the OG gummy vitamin businesses. But they're more mass as opposed to premium. And so if they were to look at it, then, you know, perhaps they say, okay, this is how we're going to premiumize our portfolio. So we're going to grow. But to me, you know, I come back and I'm like, this is this is unilever health wellness written all over it. Yeah, definitely. And I mean, what kind of outcome do you think they should be expecting, right? And what do you think the timeline is for that potentially? Yeah, it's a good question. I think in terms of timeline, I would I would do exactly what you said where they should focus on maxing out their US distribution first, which they probably got, you know, two to four years to be able to do that with their velocity. If you look at some of the public data that we know about the other unilever acquisitions, you know, they paid roughly four to five X for smarty pants liquid IV was a $600 million valuation on like 100 to 120 million evaluation. NutriFull was a billion dollar valuation and 200 million revenue. And so if you look at this and say, okay, let's assume it's a two and a half to four X, you know, multiple. If I sold today, it's probably a 300 to $700 million sale. I think if they can grow to 250 to 350 million revenue, they're looking at 800 million to 1.4 billion. And yeah, if they unlock Costco or expand the skew set into sleep immunity energy stuff like that, this could be a $1.5 billion exit pretty reasonably. Yeah, I mean, it's pretty clear from just the story that Chad was definitely focused on disrupting this category and competing with a D1, which has done more for the supplement category than I think any other company out there. I mean, let's just real quickly put ourselves in a G1 shoes, right? If I'm on the team at a D1, I'm listening to this and seeing this story unfold. How do I feel? And like, yeah, I mean, the D1 missed the boat here, right? I mean, AG1 could still release, you know, got me format and compete, right? I mean, how do you feel if you're an AG1 shoes hearing this and seeing this unfold? Yeah, I mean, the last couple episodes we've kind of picked on AG1 a little bit. You know, there was bloom nutrition, you know, becoming big because they weren't fast enough getting into Amazon and owning that traffic. This is another example of a new format and I'm sure they have the consumer complaints or the consumer feedback says, hey, I just I don't like the mess. I don't like the taste, things like that. So I can't fault anybody for running a substantial nine figure business because you have to be doing more things right than wrong in order to have that kind of business. But I also think that, you know, it's possible that they were so focused on just the one note that played it over and over again that they didn't invest in any R&D or trying things, you know, do things like that. I do think that the the book is not finished on AG1. And so they've done one thing that nobody else has done where they've built a synonymous, you know, greens, nutrient brand. And so there's a real opportunity for AG1 to become a master band and to be in different channels like retail and Amazon to be expanding into other formats like like gummies. And so I would encourage them to do that quite a bit because yes, they they own the green powders market on D to C and podcasts today. They don't own it on Amazon and they don't own the gummies piece, which looks like it's growing super quickly. And so I think that if I were them, I would say I would take the optimistic point of view and say, hey, look, we've had other competitors that have proven out that people want to buy our products in this format and these channels. Like all we have to do is execute as well. And we should be able to reclaim a lot of the halo effect and just the brand credibility that we have. That's I say, what do you see? Yeah, I mean, I agree with you. I think if I was AG1, it would kind of like more, you know, fuel under my fire and just say, hey, we've got to perform here. We've got to execute. We can't let this team eat our lunch. And I think that's what they're going to do, right? I mean, they're already planning to expand into different product categories, right? I think that's like Steve and I think a beauty as well. And so they're already doing that. There's nothing to say that they couldn't go release a gummy as well. So, you know, I think it's going to really lighten more kind of motivation on our team. I think that's the right way to look at it. I think great team perform under pressure. And I'm sure that's what AG1's going to do is we're going to really kind of reinvest in the brand and growth and expand into some more product categories here to, you know, defend their position in the market. I think when I think about grooms in this whole story, you know, what comes to me in terms of takeaways is just that you don't necessarily need to be an expert in a category to build a big business. You can learn it. You can really have self-believe to understand that process. And you can kind of apply something that's working in a different format in terms of, you know, consumption. In this case, you know, a powder or a pill and say, hey, can I apply that to gummies that people enjoy in general more than a powder and a pill? And so if I'm kind of thinking about something up this story and kind of my takeaways, I think it's really just applying and applying my new format to an industry that's growing a lot. And I think that's really what Chad and the team have done very well here. You're absolutely right. And I think that, you know, this wasn't the kind of story of, you know, hey, there's a microbiome expert or an ex body builder that was trying to emphasize performance. It was really just, for instance, a regular guy who said, I hate this powder routine. I like the idea of powders, but how do I make it easier? And so I think you're right. This deep subject matter expertise is something that you can learn. And I think Chad did a great job of becoming an expert in gummy manufacturing and the science behind it. But the real piece here is finding a pain point, finding an insight, making people want to do what they should do and kind of doing that. And so, you know, I think the main takeaway for me here is that if you're a non technical founder or someone in that space, you don't need to be a chemist, but you need to invest enough in the science to teach yourself so that you understand when the manufacturer is bluffing. And so I think that Chad's understanding of supply chain and the manufacturing process has allowed him to outflank his competitors. And, you know, if if many factions going to be your boat, you'll spend time in the factory, I think is the main takeaway. Totally, totally. I love this episode. I love this story. Really impressive to see just the growth of greens and, you know, probably that continued growth too. We'll have to report back, you know, in a year or two and see where they're at. I'm sure they're going to have more growth and more funding. In the meantime, for those that are listening, you've got to leave us a review. We haven't heard from all of you that are tuning in. 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