How Bad is Dating Here? Plus, AI Shopping Chatbots

(upbeat music) This is CityCast Twin Cities. I'm Sean McPherson, and here's what the cities are talking about. (upbeat music) Denzel, what's the best gift you've ever given? Last year, I got me and my partner, matching him in his wicked embroidered shoes university sweatshirt. (laughing) So that's the best gift anyone has ever given anyone. So Anna, do you wanna apply for the silver medal for best gift you've ever given? Yes, I gave a guitar to my college boyfriend for Christmas, and that year he gave me a plunger because he clogged my toilet so often. Thanks, Eric. That's our not bitter executive producer, Anna Wagle, and CityCast contributor and NPR Newsroom coordinator, Denzel Beeland. Today we're taking laziness to a new level. AI picking your gifts for you at Target and elsewhere. We're also gonna do a deep dive into the dating scene in the Twin Cities, the single men capital of the US of A. Now before we get into today's show, we do wanna shout out some new neighbors, Jason D and Kareem S. I bet Jason and Kareem have already sent their holiday cards out, that's just the vibe I get from them. You can join Jason and Kareem as a CityCast neighbor today over at twincities.citycast.fm. Dear robot, over Lord, I wanna find a gift that means nothing to me nor the person I'm buying it for and is simply just an algorithmic reflection of my conception of who they are. Robot over Lord, can you help me vacuum out the last little bits of human warmth and kindness that still remain in our dystopian landscape? Dear valued organic input unit, thank you for your vulnerable submission. Your desire to eliminate residual warmth is noted and deeply appreciated. May we suggest a tasteful object that will live in a drawer forever? Thank you. Thank you, Sean. Okay, robot over Lord, break character and tell me about how open AI is changing how we shop. Okay, this is Anna. I'm here for the first time, hi. So, target and Walmart and others are rolling out open AI-powered shopping tools just in time for the holidays. So, Carson Hartzog reports that generative AI could give the retail industry a $310 billion boost. So, I'm curious if either of you have seen these bots in your shopping apps. I don't even know if you have shopping apps, but have you seen these before? I don't have a shopping app. I have like, I punch in my wife's phone number if I have to go to Target. So, I certainly don't have an AI bot inside of an app. I don't have. Do you mean that you type in her number as a login to the app or you text her to ask her what you should be getting? No, when I'm waiting at Target, they go, do you want a punch in a phone number? And I sometimes I punch in your's, Anna, just for fun, but usually, usually I put it in my wife's cell. Okay, so I have seen one pop up a bot in my target shopping app when I was in the store, but I was very frazzled with multiple toddlers in a cart, and I just shoved the phone in my pocket. But I remember it like knowing where I was in the store and like asking me a thought-provoking question. So I can see people are really getting into this. Not like I condone it, but I understand. HardSug reports that despite privacy and environmental concerns, a growing number of people are using generative AI to do price comparisons and find deals and get ideas for gifts and stuff like that. So, not only do Target and Walmart have partnerships with chat GPT, but like we talked about, they've launched their own in-house AI tools. And this could really change things, I think, for the way that we shop. In the StarTubians article, they have their reporters do some testing with chat GPT as a way to come up with gift ideas for people. So, I thought I would ask it what to get you to for gifts. Are you curious? Are you curious to hear not only what chat GPT suggests that I buy you, but also the prompts that I put in? I'm beautifully horrified. Let's freaking go. - Okay, Denzel, you're up first. This is what I said. Okay, so I need some gift ideas for my friend, Denzel. He works in a newsroom, he's 30, something, he's really cool, he's Mr. Twin City's leather, which is like a really impressive title to have around here. And he DM'd me the other day asking if I would host a cake party and invite him so he can try my trace late, Chase cake. So clearly he's interested in cake. And my cake is really good, by the way. What should I get him for Christmas? Okay, this is what chat GPT reported. Gourmet, Trace, Laches, Kit. (laughing) - That's good. - No, that doesn't exist. Baking class, which you don't have time for, dude. Premium notebook and pen set, desk accessories, which may be really sad. A journalism book, a leather care kit. Okay, we're getting closer. A leather bracelet, a custom leather patch that says Mr. Twin City's leather, or a ticket to a local event, because they don't know your schedule, they don't know how busy you are. And they also recommended some tiered gift bundles, but we don't have time for that. So did any of these really hit it for you, Denzel? - Desc accessories is the vaguest thing I have heard in my life, in I date men. Like, what is that about a leather care kit? It's really nice and sweet, and I do like that. I thought OpenAI was smarter. It was really gonna give cool ideas. Also, baking class infers the fact that I wanna bake my own stuff and not that I wanna go and have my friends bake wonderful things and just like, basting the accessories. - Show where you with cake, which I understand, it clearly, GPT doesn't know you like I do. So if those were the vaguest of answers, we're gonna get into some extreme specifics with Sean. (laughing) Here was the prompt. Now, can you recommend some gifts for the host of my podcast, Sean, his family's Jewish. He is a bass player. He's really funny. He likes cute clothes. He hates shopping. He has a new hot tub. He has two dogs. He has two daughters. He has an extremely cool wife. Please impress him because I like to keep him happy. Okay. This is what Chad GVD came up with. (laughing) I don't know a lot of these words. Fender Rumble 40 bass combo amp. Line pod expressed bass effects processor. Ernie Ball Cloud Comfort Guitar Strap. Zoom MS60B Multistomp Bass Petal. A dog lover bass player T-shirt. (laughing) - I just got it. I dropped the first four things. I have legitimately Googled and I know exactly what they are and describe them. So they're doing better. Okay, dog lover bass player. Okay, go on. - Okay, your t-shirt. Pet Puri Deck the Paws gift set. A floating tray for your hot tub. And a heated towel warmer. Now, that last one was very shocking to me because you have indicated to me that you want that item. Like, you need something to hang your towels on. And so I feel like it, you know, it got a little bit closer for you. Am I right? - Well, you both take one headphone off so I can scream a little bit loudly when I'm feeling right now. - Yes. It's the thought that counts. We're supposed to be thinking that that is literally, are you kidding? Like, you have excised the one thing that counts out of the process of buying gifts. And I understand some of us have to buy gifts for people we don't care about. If you care about the person, I complimented my friend after his wedding speech, his vows. And he was like, yeah, I got it off AI. And I was like, oh, I'm so sick, dude. - Oh, they're gonna get divorced. - I have no idea 'cause they have a lot. There's the rock solid in a lot of ways, but that is a bad sign. And this is not as bad a sign, but it is a bad sign. And if I ever wear a potpuri dog puppy lover t-shirt base pedal, kill me now. It's just, it's the thought that counts. And there's no thought. - When dog lover base player t-shirt shows up on your front door, I apologize in advance. I'll do better next year. - Dog lover base player does sound like a wonderful band at Seven Street Entry. - Yes. It's really hard to get tickets, but if you can, it's worth it. - We want to hear from you. Have you used an AI shopping assistant? Are you a dog lover base player? (laughing) Now I want to share this is terrible. Text us or leave us a voicemail at 612-217-0637. You might hear those comments in an upcoming mailbag segment. (upbeat music) For this next segment, we are saying goodbye to the very married Anna Wagle. And we want to welcome Kiki Buu Drow to the show, a burlesque performer in the Twin Cities and a single person navigating dating here. Hi Kiki, thank you for joining the show. - Hi, it's great to be here. - Now I never really used the apps as they say. And a couple times I've been sitting next to somebody who has used the apps. And as a person who did a lot of analog dating, this is a very jarring experience because folks are taking in in a matter of five minutes an amount of information and potential. partners that would be, I think, accurately maybe two years during my dating history. And I was sitting next to a friend who was truly like swiping, swiping, swiping, swiping, approving, approving, denying, denying. And I almost got motion sickness. And beyond motion sickness, I got this sense of like, this is a very different way to relate to the world. And there's a lot of folks who have been in it for a decade plus at this point. And there's a lot of people in our world who have never really been on there. And it's a worthwhile topic to talk about how dating has changed because it has changed profoundly in the past 20 years. And it's worth talking about how it's unique in the Twin Cities, thriving center of psychology compiled some census data and found that Minneapolis has the most single men across the country. And I don't know exactly what that means. I also looked up like just basically how many men to women we have in the Twin Cities, 103 men for every 100 women. That doesn't deal with single or you know, together with somebody. But regardless, we want to get a look at dating in the Twin Cities and some tips to find love in a situation where it can be pretty hard to find love. So Kiki, you are the sole single person on the call at this moment. How do you feel about dating here and is it as bad as I sometimes hear from folks who are in the market? I think it's pretty rough out here. I was on Tinder and that was just, yeah, a disaster. But right now I'm solely on the LK Black Dating app because I would say 90% of who I date is cis black men. Actually, I'm contemplating getting off the apps and taking a break from dating because I've had some very interesting experiences in the last six months. Yeah, I think a break is an order for me. No, Kiki, I'm not originally from Minnesota. So I've learned the word interesting is a very loaded term here. Would you be able to share one of those interesting experiences? So when people are listening, they're like, ah, I know not to do that. All right. So it was August or September. Matt was the guy, then we were going to set up a date. The day before he asked me, hey, you're going to wear heels? And I was just like, what do you mean by that? So I'm like, no. And I don't wear heels for more than five minutes when I'm performing because if it's not heels, I'm in my Bergenstocks. I said, you know, I'll be ready by 8 p.m. Here's my address. 812 rolls around. I get a text, hey, I'm about to go into the shower. And I'm like, what? No. I thought I'd be ready at 8. And I had to work the next day. I'm not trying to go out at 9 p.m. So I tell him this. I'm like, oh, okay. Didn't I tell you I'd be ready at 8? And here's my address. He shows up at 9 calls me. And he's like, hey, so I'm here. I'm like, okay, I'm coming down. He's like, oh, you're coming down to my car. And I'm like, aren't you picking me up? And he's like, oh, okay, just give me five minutes. So I live in a fourplex, a really old building. And then we have this big window. We can see the street and my roommates there. And we're both watching this man for seven minutes. No, not even kidding. Seven minutes, he's going from the front seat to his back, cleaning out his front seat and in the back. And I'm just like, I look at my roommate and I'm like, Michelle, I don't want to go. I don't want to go. I don't want to go. And she's like, okay, I'm having an emergency. I'm having an emergency. You have to stay. And so I'm like, no, I'm just going to call him. I'm going to call him. So I'm like, hey, so I think I'm just going to stay home. And then he blows up at me. And he's like, what, I came all this way. I took a shower. He said that. He said, I took a shower. So he hangs up on me and like, okay, cool. Let me just block him. But no, that man proceeds to call me no less than 10 times in a row. Like in leaving me messages and yelling at me. And I'm just like, okay, no. So for sign of red flag, let's just, we're going to cut it. We're going to cut it. Oh, man. Yeah, that, that, that, as the Minnesotans say, that is interesting. Do you think there's something particular about Minnesota, the Twin Cities, Midwest culture that makes it hard to date? Or is it just hard out here for everyone? I know Minnesota for the last, you know, 10 plus years is a married person. But I do think that we struggle to go out period. And I think a lot of people are quick to marry here. And we stigmatize people who aren't married and set up with a long term partner. And I think that means that some folks don't have the skill set, the experience and the, the knowledge to just be decent. I mean, Kiki, what I'm hearing about in this case is like, a lot of what you didn't want to put up with this potential date, I wouldn't want to put up with a friend. I'm like, you know, if you're coming over, I'm getting into your car. I also expect to be on time and I certainly expect you to not brag about taking a shower. And this is just skills that I think if you hang out a lot, I'm not talking about date. I mean, if you spend a couple nights out a week, you're not going to pull bullshit like that, but we have a lot of really insular people who don't have it together to just, to just act right in general inside or outside of dating. That's my take. I highly agree with that before I met my current partner. It was hard out here and I feel like maybe similarly the way I have struggled with communication with folks in Minnesota just directly translated for me when it came to dating. I am a pretty direct blunt person. And when I'm not, I feel weird and awkward and it feels to be the complete opposite a lot of times, especially when you come to these apps. And Sean never hop on any sort of app or you have to chat with people. It's never going to be worth it the way you think it's going to be. And let me tell you as a queer man, there are a collection of apps aimed at queer men that are wild. And most often what it is is that they tell you how close people are to you and not like by like mile, by like the foot. I could shock you and maybe you'd be unsurprised but saddened by the way that men on the internet have approached me digitally, especially as like a black queer man. And you're like, wow, you said that. Are you going home to your family at holidays with that same mindset as well? Something about being behind a screen makes people of all races and genders. That's absolutely out of pocket. But hey, KK, you're going to delete the apps. Someone nice is going to approach you. I'm channeling that for you. So when that happens, I want to know where are the best places for first date. I like Como Park, like the conservatory, like you know, walk around, look at the plants. I think that's great. You know, there's exits if you need a scape. I love that you're like, enjoy nature. So easy ways to leave if it's getting weird, which is just such a sign of the times of like I'm it's terrible that that's in your equation for a first date yet it's completely plausible that it is. I like an experience. So I'm a big fan of like a can can wonderland type place where there is like activities to do. You can also sit down and talk. Fresh food for me food is very important for me on a date. And I'm still delighted in charm by it. I think a first date to Mall of America could really work. But I feel like that's very specific to me because I love the mall. I love the walking. I love fighting and restaurant. I haven't tried yet or food place. I haven't tried yet. I love trying on clothes. I love playing guessing games with prices. I might even write a ride if you got me there. And I think in the great words of Kiki so many exits. I think in my world of dating, this is going to sound very much like gang life. But I always want to meet a neutral territory. Like I never want to be at the spot where I know a whole lot of people or where my date knows a whole lot of people. I want to be at a place where like if this goes south, we both still have our own places. And so for whatever reason I'm always looking for kind of like a new experience. But the experience is an important word. I'm often looking for something where you can talk almost the whole time because I feel like, hey, if we go to a movie, I might get a false impression that we locked together because we had a good 10 minutes before the movie started. I want to be in something like quiet environment for drinks or for food to actually, I mean, one of the things you're trying to do is figure out if you're going on a second date. I think I can figure out a lot more from an hour to a conversation than I can from something where there's an overriding activity. And that's really what you have to focus on. Yeah, I never understood the movie one. Maybe you get to number four. Maybe you just get coffee before and then you go to movie and then you sit in silence for an hour and a half. I don't know. really understand that. All right. We're going to keep on talking about dating, but first we're going to take a quick break. Now, Kiki, when we opened, we were talking about the fact that a lot of your identity is as a burlesque performer. And there's plenty of folks who think if you're out there looking utterly sexy, confident, dancing, moving, often down to pretty down close to the old birthday suit, maybe dating isn't going to be a problem. But it's obviously something that you're still navigating as an individual. How do you align your dating identity and what you want in a partner with this identity that might seem like it's all available for this burlesque performer? How does that land? Well, I used to share my profiles that I was a burlesque dancer. I do not do that anymore. You know, when they would ask about it, it then it just takes a nose dive into them, sexualizing me. And be like, "Ooh, can I get a private dance?" I'm like, "No." "Well, see, I have $400, then, yes, maybe. Then maybe we'll do that." And then, you know, it is a big part of who I am. I don't really differentiate my day life and my night life. It is pretty one and the same. It is one full person. It's something I'm still kind of navigating. And then there's also some people who maybe don't approach me, maybe because of, because I am from Minneapolis. And I grew up in Minnesota and I know how a lot of us can be passive-aggressive, maybe not confrontational, but I've been a pretty big mouth my entire life even growing up here. And so I've been a confident person a long time. So I wonder, you know, if that's also an intimidating factor. I know it's a lot to navigate. I know these apps are a lot to navigate for everyone. And Meredith, a friend of mine who just got off the apps and locked down a solid boyfriend. And I was chatting with Meredith kind of randomly. And I made some kind of joke about her and her man breaking up. And she said, "If you mess things up between me and him and I'm back on the apps, I will literally kill you." And I realized that there's people who have spent some time on these apps and they're not going back under any circumstance. They're not going back. I want to run through some of Meredith's grievances from her time on the apps and see if they align with anything. The Kiki and Denzel have dealt with. And one thing that came up was Meredith having issues with people in the world of their work, either having a job they don't like complaining about it and not changing the job or straight up lying about the job they have on the apps. And then a simple Google search linked in, a handful of questions. And suddenly you find out that the person is in a much lower job than they actually first presented. Denzel, do you have any red flag jobs like for your potential partners as far as employment where you're like, "No, that's not going to work." Oh gosh, like I said, sometimes you're just open to anything. But I try to make it not. I have enough mind to date other actors as a performing artist myself. It gets weird. It gets weird when you're like, "Oh, did you hear about that audition?" And you're like, "Where in bed? What are we doing?" This might have been an oversight in my world. Denzel, do you know what negging is? N-E-G-G-I-N-G? The fact that you don't know means that you're in a way better place than the rest of us. He was this in your lexicon as well? I know it, yeah. I literally, in texting with Meredith, I was like, "I think that's the one where you fool around but you don't orgasm." And she was like, "No, that's edging." And I was like, "Oh, okay. So that was an awkward moment for me and Meredith." But her example of negging was this dude who just cut her down many all the time about little things. And then after the third date says, "You don't go to the art museum enough for my liking. I'm out." And that was literally the justification for breaking up, which seems so weirdly shallow and also minute. You could be so into art and just not go to the art museum. You could be so connected. And it seems like not only are there a lot of undatable people, but undatable men maybe on particular, but there's also a bunch of Goldilocks men who are looking for something so specific. And if you don't fit this particular bill, it's just out the door, which seems that's just not how I dated. And I don't think that's how most people date, but it seems like there's a lot of folks out there doing their part in negging and it doesn't involve orgasming. God, it really shouldn't. It really shouldn't. I've had many a person tell me that I do too much and I'm too busy and I've been like, "You know what? That's a great thing in my career. Oh no, I'm booked." And you have a problem with that. I don't know what the other solution was because I've seen your paychecks. You can't support the both of us, so I don't know what's going on there. Oh yeah, people love the neg and they're like, "I'm being hot. It's not." I am eternally grateful to both of you for not only being here and just spending some time with CityCast Twin Cities, but also being really honest and forthcoming about where you're at. And we talk frequently on this podcast about serious topics, but not always personal topics. This is both serious and personal and you've both exhibited a lot of courage as Meredith who was willing to share a lot of these stuff. I just thank you and Kiki, this is your first time on the show. I thank you for how open you've been and just for really painting a picture of where you're at in a really honest way, sometimes in a way that's hilarious and sometimes in a way that's a bummer. But regardless, I appreciate you bringing your whole self to this conversation. Thank you for being with CityCast today. Yeah, absolutely. This is great and not great because now I'm going to go home and overthink all of this and think about my dating life some more. That's all for today here on CityCast Twin Cities. I'm your host, Sean McPherson, Kiki Boudreau, Denzel Beeland, and O'Wagle. Thanks for being here today. You can get more news delivered right to your inbox by subscribing to the CityCast Twin Cities newsletter. If you enjoyed today's show, why not share this podcast with someone who's still on the apps? We'll see you back here tomorrow for more news from around the city.