How An Abuse Victim Took The Law Into His Own Hands...

Hey, it's Ryan Reynolds here for Mint Mobile. Now, I was looking for fun ways to tell you that Mint's offer of unlimited premium wireless for $15 a month is back. So I thought it would be fun if we made $15 bills. But it turns out that's very illegal. So there goes my big idea for the commercial. Give it a try at mintmobile.com slash switch. Upfront payment of $45 for three months, $90 for six months, or $180 for a 12-month plan required. $15 per month equivalent. Taxes and fees extra. Initial plan term only. Greater than 50 gigabytes. May slow when network is busy. The Boy Scouts kept what's called secret perversion files. There's over 10,000 names of Boy Scout leaders and Scoutmasters who abused children that they kept records of. We invited the wolf into our home. And he's just looking at us like, you stupid sheep. I got you all. He was like second in command in my life. Like, I loved him. I said, hey, how am I? Let me show you how the hell I am. And I raced across his room in a violent, ugly. Battle to the death began. I knelt down, eye level to eye level with him. And I said, it's not so fun raping little boys now, is it, Dennis? And I slid his throat. I instantly knew my life was over. Clark Fredericks was raised in an idyllic New Jersey suburb during the 1970s. But when he was just 11 years old, he was brutally sexually assaulted by his trusted Boy Scout leader, who also happened to be a local sheriff. This sent Clark's life into a spiral of depression and addiction. For the next 10 years, he was in a state of depression. And he was in a state of depression. But one day, in the summer of 2012, when Clark was already 46 years old, he confronted his abuser inside of his home and stabbed him to death. He did what most abuse victims dream of doing to their abusers. Make sure to watch to the end to find out how Clark avoided a first-degree murder charge and copped out to a much lighter sentence. Clark has since written a New York Times best-selling book about his experience as a survivor of sexual abuse. It's called Scarred, a memoir of a stolen childhood and a life reclaimed. I highly recommend you check it out. It's powerful. This episode is the ultimate tale of revenge, trauma, and healing. It's Clark Fredericks, right here on The Connect with Jonny Mitchell. I think recently in California, there must be a recent phenomena of the states starting to get rid of statute of limitations on, you know, sexual crimes, especially involving minors. I think in California, it was like 2017 or something. So I think the wake of the Me Too movement has seen a lot of states start to pass that. Don't you think so? I think there's like 32 states that updated their sex abuse laws. Yeah. That's the last time I looked. And what does that mean, update them? Just like extended it. You know, like in New Jersey, you had to come forward. You had to come forward at 18. You had two years from 18 to 20 to file a lawsuit. You just got horribly abused from 8 to 14. Yeah. You're not coming forward four years later to file a lawsuit. So we got the law taken all the way up to age 55. So it gives you plenty of time to heal. So if you're abused as a child, you have until you're 55 years old to? You have to file a criminal lawsuit against the person or the organization that harbored it. You have to file a criminal lawsuit against the person or the organization that harbored a person. Wow. So you can go to the Catholic Church. Yeah. Okay. Or you can go to, in your case, the Boy Scouts. Right. Which I got the law passed. I was outside of the parameters of filing a lawsuit. Right. I was in my 50s. Right. And got the new law passed. I was able to file against the Boy Scouts. Yeah. You kind of have – your story is a movie. Yeah. Your story – Another thing. Another one. Your story is something that everybody says, oh, if that happened to me, I'd go back. I'd get out and I'd fucking kill him. Yeah. You know, everybody says that. Yeah. And there would be millions of people dead every year, you know. For sure. Yeah. So – but I'm here to tell you that that's not the course of action to take anyway. For sure. I don't want to glorify anything. No, not at all. We do make jokes on this show. So if I do, forgive me. What you did is gangster though. Thanks. And well, let's get into it. You're from New York? I live in New York now. I'm from New Jersey. So that's where you grew up. Yeah. Yep. This is where – Everything happened. OK. Little town of Stillwater, New Jersey. Oh, I got it. Yeah. Yeah. It's hard that – you came up in that generation too where like abuse from – or committed against boys was like unspoken. Yeah, '70s and '80s, you know, the motto back then where kids were meant to be seen, not heard. Yeah. So that's what every – that's what all your parents said, you know. You remember the Menendez Brothers trial? Yeah, man. So Menendez Brothers was horribly abused by their father. Yeah. The first trial, they had women on the trial. Yeah. the jury and the women believed them. They killed their parents because, yeah, like boys can be abused. Then this was a hung jury, right? They retried them. Second trial, no women on the jury and all the men were like, no, boys can't be raped. What? Or they had been raped and they were internalizing it. And for whatever reason, they were like, yeah, we don't believe these guys. And there they sit 40 years later. Exactly. And that's why I don't want people to follow my footsteps. Well, that's what's so, it's so crazy. Like you almost pulled a Menendez brothers in a certain way. Yeah, I did. Like you could be doing 30. Yeah. You'd be doing life. Absolutely. I faced life. Wow. Okay. Let's get into it. How, well, how was childhood? Childhood? I mean, well, that's a loaded question. I meant like home life. Home life was cool. You know, middle-class family, brother and sister lived in a lake community. Everything, you know, growing up was outdoors. You know, there's no cell phones or computers. It's go out, get dirty, be home at dinnertime. And that's like, like from, from six, seven years old, you're allowed to go down to the lake all day. You know, the lake had basketball courts, tennis courts, softball field, jungle gym. Then the lake had a big dam right there and it went into a river and great fishing right at the dam. You know, so everything you did was down at the lake. Yeah. Yeah. How childhood should be. Yeah. So you joined the Boy Scouts. Yeah. Well, I, my brother, I had a brother who was six years older than me and my next door neighbor, Jeff, was six years older than me. And he and my brother were best friends. And I was over in Jeff's driveway because he had the basketball hoop. I was always over there. We had a huge backyard with, you know, horseshoe pits and a screened in bar and porch. And Jeff was always at our house in holidays. Jeff would always come over. We were in the Scouts ahead of me. And from their involvement in the Scouts, I met my brother and Jeff's Boy Scout leader. And at six years old, I had life or death open heart surgery. I was born with a hole in my heart and it grew to the size of a silver dollar. And the doctors said to my parents, we have a six month window to operate on Clark. They wanted me to like, try to go to the hospital. And so at six years old, I went to Mount Sinai Hospital in New York City, had this surgery. And like three, that was in April. So about three, four months later, it's a summer day. My family's out in the backyard. I came in to have a drink and to watch cartoons and boom, boom, boom on our front door. And it's my brother's Boy Scout leader, Dennis Pegg. And I like, love Dennis Pegg. He was a hulking, booming, loud, you know, big, strong guy. And I let him in and we sat down in the den on the couch. He asked me where everybody was. And my parents used to have me show my scar because I was, they were so proud of me. They would have me show my scar and collect a quarter from all their friends. I had collected a quarter from Dennis several times. And so he's like, hey, little buddy, as he tussles my hair, how about you show me your scar? I'll give you a quarter. So I said, sure, Den. And he gives me the quarter. And then he's like, how about I give you a dollar if you let me touch your scar? I was like, yeah, okay, fine. So he's rubbing his fingers up and down my scar and then he's probing my stomach. are you sore from the surgery? I'm like, no. He's like, all right. here's your dollar he's like this has to be our little secret he goes you tell anybody we're not army buddies i'm like i can keep a secret he's like okay go put that in your piggy bank i'm gonna go see everybody out there he's initiated touch already like and and and predators thrive on secrets and boom he's got secrets already built in yeah and now i don't even realize it but he's already starting to wrap me around his finger he's got me imagine in 2026 how weird it would be to just have a guy knock on your door unannounced to let a grown man in to a basically a stranger's house just a guy from the neighborhood it's already weird it's already creepy yeah but back then like that's what your front door was unlocked and open right exactly you know so yeah it's grooming yeah it's the the grooming process is underway yeah okay yeah man what happened after that after that like he did a lot of his grooming down at the lake that became like his trolling ground for young kids because that's where we all went um how old was he at the time do you know do you remember he was probably like 30 30 in that range okay you know and i'm six yeah and then i'm seven and i'm eight and then at nine years old he's inviting me into his truck to have a beer with him down at the lake had there been any touching any further touching after this incident up until that point i don't remember you know the tussling of the hair he was a big hair tussler you know and and then like it would be in his truck always telling jokes and stories and patting the thing and then you know the pat goes up to the thigh you know just testing the waters and having a beer with him and this got to be our secret you know i could get i'm a lieutenant in the sheriff's department i could get in a lot of trouble if they knew i was giving you a beer you know and you you think like he builds this they build this friendship with you you know that you're on even level with them and you're not also for people that didn't realize he's also not just a boy scout leader he's a cop he's a lieutenant in the sheriff's department wow so i'm thinking in my little nine-year-old mind now like why would i ruin this i get i get to have a beer with the lieutenant of the sheriff's department like i'm not gonna ruin this and tell anybody was that the first time you drank alcohol uh no me and carl little at six stole a beer out of my parents fridge and ran down to the lake and chugged it why i have no idea 80s shit dude yeah jersey just like yeah um but yeah so probably the second time i had a beer was was in his truck okay and then uh it's just like one thing after another showing me pornography but it wasn't playboy it was polaroids and it was close-ups of penises and saying my friend just bought a farmhouse and there was this old desk left behind then i opened it up and i was like oh my god i'm gonna have to open it up one of the drawers and it was filled with pornography you want to see some i'm thinking cool get to get to see some boobies you know as a little kid right and it's not boobies and it's close-ups of penises and he's chuckling and laughing as he's like showing me he's looking at him and laughing like hysterically look at this looking back now he probably took all those yeah and uh so what was your first thought like i'm like this is gay and weird i i said where's all the women then yeah and he's like oh those must have been in the other drawer i just quick grabbed a handful i'll i'll i'll get some out of the other drawer next time i'm over there there was never a next time this guy was a monster this guy was a predator monster and i'm not the only one down at the lake he's giving a beer to you know there's like all of us young boys were down right and he would spend hours drinking beer and he would spend hours drinking beer and he would spend hours fishing with us teaching us how to fish um you know i would think nowadays if you see a grown man spending all his time with young boys you bet you better yeah you better be on on the lookout you know like like parents i mean it was also sign of the times you know like be gone yeah bag of dinner like a lot can happen in that time frame yeah and uh did you in hindsight did anybody else come out about him abusing them like the boys that well by the lake well did you know anybody like in your neighborhood that was also now i do okay not not at the time right yeah okay so after the incident after it came out in the news about what happened you had people that came forward yeah wow yeah i knew one kid had to have and he reached out when i got released what we had dinner and wow that's amazing uh what age did the did the first like actual abuse occur well you know i'm so like we're going years now of grooming like i mean who knows how many kids in the pipeline he's got going right you know and and this is just one little isolated area paul and skill lake he's got he's got the whole area and he's involved in every organization under the sun every boy scouts boy little league but you know he also was moved around from the boy scouts just like catholic priests got moved around he had been in various chapters all over the place why would you move from chapter to chapter to chapter yeah tell me yeah really one reason was he moving himself or was you know were the higher-ups moving him yeah like how deep does that go in the boy scouts we kind of know that but i don't know if that's true but i don't know if that's true but i don't know how deep it is in the catholic church or at least it was god well the boy scouts kept what's called and this is what they named it secret perversion files that's what was uncovered by an oregon lawsuit against them and there's over 10 000 names of boy scout leaders and scout masters who abused children that they kept records of and this is going didn't go to the police no no and this is going back for decades so i like to say all right let's say you've got a a corrupt ceo of the organization for whatever reason and he wants to protect the name so he keeps secret perversion files doesn't let anything get out doesn't want scout masters getting arrested for this because it'll tarnish the image this went on for 70 years so like you had every change at the top of that organization is like yeah we'll just keep burying this and we'll keep moving the guys around and we'll we'll we'll keep shushing everybody like for for decades like how do you how do you not have one person take command of that organization with a with a conscience and a soul and say what's going on here like this is a debacle yeah i don't get what the boy scouts is weird like catholic church okay i don't excuse it but i i get it from just uh from a religious perspective they're like this is the most important one of the most important organized religions certainly churches in the world like i don't know how a billion catholics so many catholic and christians right we blow the lid off this thing it's like we're gonna create some atheists like we're it's gonna it's it's like a whole paradigm shift right with the boy scouts who what are you what are you protecting why are you protecting people it's like an antiquated thing that like white americans did in the 1950s there was there was two guys down i believe it was in louisiana back in the uh 70 80 range who started a boy scout troop for the sole purpose of molesting boys and trafficking them around the country like they had guys all over the country that they were hooked up with and and would take these boys on weekend trips to go get raped you know that was the sole purpose of that uh boy scout troop i mean look i i believe it because now with technology there's you know disgusting chat rooms and different ways that predators can network but back then you needed like a cover and i don't know how they all got the same playbook you know you got to initiate touch pornography and alcohol and then you go for it is that a playbook yeah the predators that's like the yeah yeah the 101 predator 101 man yeah that's fucking insane they find each other yeah and secrets secrets secrets secrets you know so the number one thing to tell parents is teach your child there should never be an adult whether it's the father or mother or the uncle who who tells you to keep a secret if somebody if an if an adult tells you to keep a secret you gotta keep it a secret you gotta let us know immediately unless i'm cheating shut up kid this is your yeah this is She's your other aunt. Yeah. But yeah, man. Damn. So then it finally progressed to wrestling matches. How old were you? 10. Okay. Where he would get excited. And what I noticed during those wrestling matches is really the first time I noticed it is his eyes would go dark, you know, like the pupils would dilate. His mannerisms would get really aggressive and his eyes would darken. And I thought maybe as I got older, maybe I made that up or imagined it. And then I've talked to. I've talked to abuse victim after abuse victim after abuse victim who, without me saying a word, has said to me, like, and then my abuser's eyes would darken like a shark or like a doll. I'm like, you too? They're like, yeah. So, like, is it demonic? Is it – I don't know what goes on when they go into that, like, counts mode, you know? I think it is. I think it is. It is the devil taking over. I mean, in the Bible, it says, like, you shall not harm children, right? And so now you have the antithesis of that. Right. Yeah. So, from that, it went on to other sexual acts at 11. Okay. And then at 12, it led to a glass of Blackberry brandy, beer, and penetration. And it was always, like, in his truck or on a lake? No. For years, he'd been getting me used to going to his house. I lived on one side of Stillwater. He lived on the other. And at the other end was other fishing spots. And he would be at the dam, and he'd be like, the fish aren't biting here. Throw your bike in the back of my truck, and let's go over to the other side, you know, and try fishing over there. And then we'd get over there. And he'd always mysteriously slip into the water and wet his sneaker or slip into the mud. Ah, we got to go to my house so I can change my, you know, shoes. And then we'd get to his house, and he'd give me a beer. You know, so it was getting me used to being at his house. And the reason you didn't tell anybody is because you thought this guy was cool? Yeah. I mean, my father's here, and then he's right. He's right here. Wow. He was, like, second in command in my life. Like, I loved him. And that's the mind F that so many victims have. It's that they love their abuser. Right. You know? Because he was basically like a second father to you. Yes. Showing you how to fish. Yeah, he hunted with us. Wow. He was at our house for holidays. My father and mother owned a restaurant back then. Every Sunday night, they put on big Sunday night dinners. He came over Sunday nights. So he knew your family well. Yeah. He had a horrible car crash, and my mother insisted he recuperate our house so she could bathe him and feed him and mend him back to health. And we invited the wolf into our home, and he's just looking at us like, you stupid sheep. I got you all. So predators have to win over the community. Yeah. Which he was in everything. Went over the family and then went over the victim. Imagine how badly you must want that if you're willing to go through that, those lengths. Invest years in me. Yeah. So did you feel when it started, like at 11, 12, did you feel like this is wrong? Or how did you – how does your little mind process that? I mean, you know, and – Yeah. I don't know. The freaking trolls that come out when you do an interview, you know, they'll be like, I know the type of kid I was, and I know exactly what I would have done if this ever happened. I would have went running right to my parents. And it's like, no, you wouldn't have. You know, like, by the time something happens, it's too late. You know, like, you know, one, like, do I want to speak up? And allow my classmates to know what's going on? Do I want that to come out? Do – do I want to say anything and have my parents question why I don't want to see Dennis anymore? Like, what do you mean you don't want to see Dennis? Like, do I want to – do I want to uncover that? And your parents hadn't talked to you about any of this? My parents, back in the day – You know, the other – the other saying, you know, besides kids were meant to be seen, not heard, was don't get into a stranger's vehicle. Right. Stranger danger. Stranger danger, yeah. They never said a word about don't get into your brother and your scoutmaster's vehicle. Yeah. Never said that. And when he penetrated me at 12, I was screaming. I was crying. And this piece of filth whispered in my 12-year-old ear just another minute so that he could make sure he finished what he was doing. And he had a coon dog. Coon dogs have a long, drawn-out howl. And his coon dog heard my cries and screams and was howling nonstop. When we got done and he cleaned me up and cleaned himself up, he sat me down. At his kitchen table, he brought his dog in and he said, I want to show you what will happen to you if you ever open your mouth about what just occurred. And he began beating his dog and beating his dog and beating his dog. And I'm screaming and I'm crying and I'm pleading and I'm begging, please, Dennis, stop, stop, stop. And he beat this dog until it lay in a clump at my feet. Poor old Duke. And I've blamed myself for what happened to Duke this whole time. Just like it was tough to not feel that what happened to Duke wasn't because of my cries and screams. So now to all the trolls out there who know what they would have done, what are you going to do now when this just happened and that just happened with the dog in front of you and you're 12 years old and the guy, you're going to do this? You respect the most next to your father has just done the unthinkable. He's taken your life, right? Your life will never be the same. My life instantly is going off course. Within three months, I start smoking weed on a regular basis. They took seventh and eighth grade out of the elementary school and put it in the high school. They built a brand new high school and put – so elementary school used to go up to eighth grade and then you went to high school. Now they built a new high school. They built a new high school with seventh and eighth grade in it. So I go to seventh and eighth grade. You're mixed in with older kids and I got all these traumatic thoughts swirling constantly. My mother worked in the library of the school. So I got to like – I got to crank on that smile. I can't let mom see me walking around with my head down moping like, what's wrong with you? So I got to be Mr. Outgoing and Mr. – You can't tell your parents because of the shame? Just – yeah, I mean just – it's – there's so many things, dude. You know, like shame. Do you know how powerful shame is? Like something like that? Back in the day when you can't even talk and the guy next to your father on the pedestal just did the unthinkable. And maybe they don't believe you either. And he's a cop and who's going to believe me? All of that. And I speak out and – Now my classmates and all the girls in my class are going to know I'm the abused kid. Right. And what are they going to say? Are they going to call me gay? Right. You know, like – and then as time goes on and you don't speak, then it builds from a little pebble into a snowball, you know? It becomes this monster in you. Like your mind just plays all sorts of games with you. You know, like, you know, oh, well, you waited. Now it's – a couple of years has gone by and you can't say anything now. Like, you know, like, you know. Did he do it again? No. Because that Christmas – so that happened in the summer before I went off to the high school. That Christmas I got a dirt bike for Christmas. And so to avoid going down to the dam area where his – The trolling ground was I started riding my dirt bike with older kids around the lake, you know, that I was already smoking weed with. Right. You know? And then that was like my out from going down to the lake. It's just, you know, my dirt bike. bike every day. Did the other victim who came out, the kid that used to live in your neighborhood that was abused by this guy, did he come out and say it was a one-off or was it like, what was his MO? Uh, no, he said it was like over the course of time. Right. And he, he said to me, like, I knew every time I saw you pulling away in his truck, that the same thing was probably happening to you. Wow. Yeah. Um, so I go into high school. I like give up on sports, give up on studies. I was a, I was a really smart kid. I could do like the basics of applying myself and get decent grades. Uh, alcohol became more readily available in high school. Back then they had paper licenses. So my brother was six years older than me. When his license expired, he tossed it to me and like, nobody would like check the data. Like as long as you could go in. So as a freshman, you know, I'm going into toss these bar, you know, and like showing my paper, my brother's paper ID. And they're like, yeah, that's cool. And, uh, and you know, I'm just, I am my, my course in life should have been this way. And I'm just year after year, I'm getting further away from that course. I go to college up in, uh, Northeastern and Boston. Did you ever see this guy again? Your abuser before the incident? Yeah. I mean, I, I'm sure he came over many times. Um, I, I can't, uh, recall like the, the, the trauma events are so like ingrained in your mind that they blur out the rest of your childhood. Now, like I didn't live with my abuser, like, some abuse victims do where I'm getting abused daily or weekly. Like it, it could be months, years spread out, you know? Um, but did I have a happy birthday for my 12th birthday with friends over? Sure. I did. I can't remember it. I can remember getting raped. Did I have a happy 11th birthday? I'm sure I did. Did I play with friends after school when I was 11? I'm sure. I did. I can't remember it. I can remember the sex acts he did, you know? So it's like blurs out what happened back then. Yeah. Um, and like I say, you know, my father at 13 sat me down. Dennis was a Lieutenant in the Sheriff's department in the County jail. So like the county jail is run by Sheriff's deputies. Right. And that's where he worked. I was a CEO. Yes. Okay. This story makes a lot of sense. So he was a mentor of young boys. He would wait outside the jail for 18, 19, 20, 21 year old drug addicts to get released, to take them back to his house, to mentor them. In the middle of the night, now our town of Stillwater is like a little rinky dink town, man. Like, you know, it's still rinky dink now. This is going back in the seventies and kids would run out of his house in the middle of the night. Some of them would run out, hitchhike in the little town of Stillwater and be like telling the residents, this guy offered me a place to stay to get back on my feet. And in the middle of the night, he pounced on me, trying, trying to sexually abuse me. And that spread around Stillwater like wildfire. My father sat me down. He goes, I can't believe what I'm hearing about Dennis Pegg. And he goes, did he ever touch you? And I just couldn't, I couldn't bring myself to tell my dad. I said, no, daddy never touched me. The perfect lunch combo. That first bite of your favorite sub followed by ice cold Pepsi. Add a couple of friends. And now that's next level. Suddenly the laughs get louder. The stories keep flowing and the food tastes better because Pepsi brings out more flavor, more fun, and more of the moment. Food deserves Pepsi. Grab a Pepsi zero sugar today. When I was around 15, a kid in my class who was in the scouts when I was in, who lived in Stillwater, his mother worked as a waitress at a Dunkin Donuts. And my father went in there and she told my father how her son was abused and raped by Dennis Pegg. My father came home, sat me down again and said, look, son, you know, he told me the kid who it was, what his mother said. And my father said, before you answer my question, I just want you to know, you'll never have to go to the police. You'll never have to testify in court. I just want you to tell me and I'll take care of it myself if Dennis ever touched you. So what's my father telling me? I'm going to kill this motherfucker. Right. Good dad. And it was just like, I agonized over that decision for a long time. Holy shit. Like. And was Dennis Pegg, he wasn't yet like exposed. He wasn't arrested. He was still around. That kid. Filed a lawsuit against him and his mother. Dennis, his mother worked the graveyard shift. Dennis would sit in there at night with no other customers in there and tell her, you and your son are going to pull those charges or I'll kill you both. And he would do this repeatedly and they pulled the charges. And, you know, I just, I couldn't. Like, tell my dad and because my mind's going, what if it goes wrong and my dad gets killed or mortally or seriously injured? What if my dad has to go do life in prison for killing this piece of garbage? You know, like, I didn't want that responsibility. Yeah, I get that. You know, like, and that's when parents say, if this ever happened to my kid, I'd go kill him. Well, your kid needs you. Now, more than ever, they don't know it needs you sitting in a prison for the next 30 years. They need you to comfort them. What could your dad have said to me to have made you tell the truth? What could he have done differently? You know, it's it's it's such a tough thing. You know, maybe not, maybe not imply that he's going to go kill. You know, like, if he's going to do it, you know, just keep that part of your stuff. You know, like, don't let me don't let my little 13 year old, my 14 year old mind. Don't worry, he's doing this. Yeah, you know. Yeah, I don't know. Maybe like, come at it with love instead of like, maybe just say, like, it's safe with me. You don't have to be ashamed. Maybe you actually use those words. Yeah, yeah. I mean, just like. It is Jersey, though. Your dad probably knew some connected guys that could get him. You know, everybody hunted back then and everybody had guns and, you know, the dad would have just gone and taken care of it, you know. How ironic is that years later? Years later, where the story goes. Yeah. OK, so. Yeah, moving on, you see, you never. You never confessed to your parents about it. No, no, never, never told anybody. OK, yeah, never. I wrote a I wrote an essay in seventh grade, like when it was still still fresh in me and like bubbling at the surface. Teacher, English teacher gave us an assignment and I and I still have the the essay and said we had to write a one page short story. I'm going to give everybody a letter of the alphabet and you have to use that letter to start as many words in your short story as possible. I got given the letter S and I wrote about being a slave on a ship where the ship master is a gay guy who tries to come into my bunk at night and I have to beat him off with a metal pipe. This is what a 12, 13 year old is writing. And that's dark and the teacher gave me an A and it says on the bottom, use more paragraphs. like not hey do you want to talk to someone like where in the world did you come up with this one yeah like but i i don't know if they thought well his mother works in the library if something was up i'm sure she would know yeah like and that was my only time of letting my guard down i got you and then after that like there's there's nothing else and i'm off to the races how when did the memories start to fade a little bit or when did you start to be able to live a quasi-normal life where it wasn't like the first thing you thought about um it had you know it slowly fades over time yeah but there's something driving your actions so like you're not like consciously thinking of the abuse all the time but you're living a life that screams there's something wrong you know um you know like just you know not studying good like i got i got caught for shoplifting in seventh and eighth grade at the mall uh i was a fire bug always playing with fire playing with fire and shoplifting are signs of abuse i didn't know it at the time actually yes yes um so i had those things uh drinking heavily in high school got caught in high school coming in the school drunk got caught drinking on class trips got called into the principal's office that i won't graduate with the class if if there's one more incident of alcohol on my breath um got a drunk drive and i was like oh my gosh i don't know what's wrong with me i don't know what's wrong with me i don't know what's wrong with me i don't know what's wrong with me i don't know what's wrong with me before i went off to college alcoholism played a huge factor yeah that makes sense right you what you what happens to abuse victims is you become a pleasure seeker like you want the uncomfortable feeling the un the thoughts the anxiety the depression you want that gone immediately so drugs alcohol actually work but you're never addressing it and you're never healing it you're just you're just and how long would it be before you saw dennis again how many years oh it's a whole lifetime yeah i was in my 40s so 35 years later or something like 30 34 years later wow yeah i mean i saw him sporadically here and there over the course of time but the last time i saw him was 46 did he see you seeing him like did he ever acknowledge you when you guys you know would run into each other in the town or anything like that uh yeah i remember whether it was after i graduated college or during college being home from break i i don't i don't remember the time frame but i remember going to a bar and uh he's in the bar and no shame comes over puts his hand on my shoulder hey bud how are you oh yeah good yeah you know just saying whatever and i i pound my beer and i tell my friends let's get the f out of here they're like what do you mean we just got here i'm like i'm driving there's no chicks here we're going somewhere to find chicks let's get out of here they're like all right calm down calm down terrifying yeah and like when you're not ready to address that monster yet you know um i would have panic attacks when he would touch me i would freeze like stiff like paralyzed like your mind like you know like his chair at the kitchen table like i'm like in the death grip on it and uh just can't move you know your mind's swirling your heart's pounding you're sweating uh and you're you're stiff as a board you can't you can't move man so you go on and you live this whole life yeah like 30 34 35 yeah like like i i go i go off to college uh i tried cocaine in college for the first time absolutely loved loved well you don't have to be abused to love cocaine we all do everybody does and uh i meet the the the woman of my dreams in college like uh we have an amazing six-year relationship uh she would she would say though like we'd be in bed and i'd get that like soldier thousand mile stare uh-huh and she would be like hello hello and i'm just like nothing like i'm just out and she'd hit me and i'd be like what she's like where'd you go i'm like what are you talking about you just left me in your mind like what's in that mind of yours i'm like nothing i would just play it off nothing and when we graduated uh you know i was uh living in jersey she was in new york uh i would go in for a weekend of sex and drinking and fun disappear for a month or two show back up sex drinking fun and it's been on for a year and then she's finally like what are you doing like you're breaking my heart every time you come in and disappear on me like are we gonna get our lives going together i'm like i can't do it what do you mean you can't do it can't do it like like when you when you got secrets and you can't do it you can't be vulnerable to your partner and you can't be open like it's not gonna work you can't be intimate i could have sex i could tell her i love her but i couldn't be intimate intimacy is vulnerability there was no way i was being vulnerable my my 20s were one career after another one job like two or three years in a job and i'd start to get that twitch and and feel trapped and trapped is how i felt at his house yeah and it's not like my mind's all right we've been in this job for two years we're trapped we were trapped in dennis's house but it would be that uncomfortable feeling every day going to work like like like anxiety and stress and be like yeah i can't do this any longer i'm out of here and it would be one night stands my whole 20s you know like uh if i have enough sex i'll prove to myself that i'm a man i gotta check if i was abused because you're talking about my 20s same 20s maybe maybe you blacked it out like so many do yeah yeah i mean i'm not i'm not minimizing it at all i'm just i i'm i like many people who haven't been abused are interested in like the you know the long-term effects of what that does yeah well you're hearing it yeah um i felt like a shell after my 20s like going into my 30s like i hurt so many women like they as soon as they would catch me i'd be like oh my god i'm not a feeling for me i'd be like see ya yeah um you know like i'm the fun wild crazy guy which they find attractive in the beginning but then the fun wild crazy guy never shuts his motor off and it's just like this is it like yep this is all you're getting out of me and it's just like see ya you know um do you think that's how a lot of i mean that makes sense a lot of addiction especially like sex addiction and things like that a lot of people have been abused i've been in those rooms those sex addictions and i've been in those rooms and i've been in those sex addiction sex addict meetings i mean almost everybody to a t has been sexually abused yeah and that's part of it you can't they can't be intimate right yeah yeah man yeah so uh you know when when sex wasn't cutting it anymore then i turned to gambling and i had amazing like four year run in the casinos like hundreds of thousands of dollars i had a briefcase at home with with with chips and cash of like 300 000 at all time like you're playing poker uh playing blackjack and craps okay and um it's it's like any other drug though where you need more and more and more like i can't wait for the weekends to to go to atlantic city like you know what am i gonna do monday through friday why i'm like feeling feeling uncomfortable you know so uh after after four years i'm like i'm Somebody says, well, we can sports bet through this bar we go to. They're hooked up with the mob for sports betting. And the owner knew – like I took buddies from my area down gambling with me. I wouldn't go around bragging. But they'd be like, holy hell, Clark's out of his mind. Like he won $80,000. He lost $50,000. You know, like I'm working with my brother in the tire automotive industry making $700 a week. And yet I went on this unbelievable run which gave me a bankroll and just betting insane amounts. So now you're betting on sports. Yeah. So now I start betting on sports. And within six months, I lost everything. Right. No, that's what happens. That's like the last stage of a gambling junkie. That's when he goes to sports. So I'm $20,000 in the hole. And I'm like – and I'm out of money. So I call up the number and I'm like, hey, man. I got to move money around, you know, can you let me roll this 20 over into the next week and, you know, until I get my money for you, anything, buddy. I'm like, thanks. So now I'm betting real aggressive because I need to cover that 20 plus I want money to keep gambling and I go 77 in the hole. And then that's ass pucker in time when you got to make that phone call. Right. And that was the worst after that. It was the absolute worst. How so? I just, you know, I didn't know what to do. Like I'm not a snitch at all. I'm not a weasel. I didn't know what to do. They instantly started threatening my life. And their big thing was, and this was like for a while. You got to rob a bank like, like maybe you'll get away with it and you can pay us money. If not, you do five, 10 years and you'd be better off in prison than what we're going to do to you. You're a dead man. So I called Gamblers Anonymous hotline and I told the lady over the phone, I'm 77 K in debt to the mob and they're threatening my life. I don't know what to do. And she had the head of New Jersey. Gamblers Anonymous back then, Ed Looney called me direct and he took me to a meeting that night and it was, it was at a VA hospital with a, with a bunch of hardcore dudes that had gambled with the mob, had been in the mob and they, they laid out a plan for me and they're like, you gotta, you gotta do a payment plan and you tell them you're a man, you're going to make good on this. They're going to scream and bitch. Bitch and moan that they're not taking a payment plan. Um, but you just got to stick to your guns. And that's what I did. So legit people from the New Jersey gambling, Gamblers Anonymous organization told you to pay the mob. They didn't say we're going to call the FBI. Dude, I fucking love old school Jersey, dude. Like, no, no, no. You owe them. That's. Well, it gets better. Okay. So, uh. And they're like, these guys are going to find out who your family are and they're going to call your family and you got to go tell your family and get them ready. I'm like, how are they going to find out who my family is? They're like, they're going to find out who your family is. So I had to tell my parents and, uh, you know, how do you, how do you tell your mother, you know, you're in debt 77 K to the mob. And your little life's being threatened and they call my father and then they call my brother at his business. We had two tire automotive stores. They call the one he's at and like your brother's a scumbag piece of shit and you can save his life. You got to pony up the money for him or else he's dead. And I already told them, like, if they, if they call, you have to say it's my brother's problem. You know, this is my son. This is my son's problem. You know, he's trying to deal with you, with you like a man. And that's what they did. But, you know, they were all scared to death for me, you know. How much were you paying them? What was the payment plan you worked out? They wouldn't accept it. That's what they said. You know, like the, the, the gambler guys at GA went through my finances and I'm, I'm in debt to all the casinos, you know. And the guy's like, do you know who you owe this money to? And I'm like, I got a pretty good idea. He's like, don't be, don't be effing cute with me. I'm like, I'm like, I'm not being cute. I, I, I know who I owe the money to. I don't think you do. He goes, you owe this money to little old men who sit at a cafe sipping espresso all day. If I go to him and I say, you want to pay $500 a month? That's 77K. You're going to put my life in danger. It's like, it's like, I, I, I can't even go tell them that. And I'm like, I, I have no other way to pay you. And, and it would be like, go back, rob a bank. You got to go rob a bank, bro. The last phone call I got from them was, you're an effing dead man. Click. No other response. That was it. A few months go by. I get a phone call and it's a guy who says he's a special agent with the FBI. And he's like, Mr. Fredericks, I'll be at your, uh, your, your store on Thursday at three o'clock. And I suggest you be there. And I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. You got to tell me what this is about. He's like, no, I don't. Click. And I'm like. What the hell, man? You know, like I'm, I'm doing coke sometimes, you know, with buddies. I'm riding with, with, with bikers and selling drugs to some hell's angel prospect guys. I'm like, are they going to try to pinch me for those guys? I'm like, what the hell could this be? Because it's been some months now, like since that last phone call. And I'm still on edge. And this guy shows up and says, we have a confidential informant inside one of the major crime families who says a hit's been put on your life for a gambling debt. I'm like, all right. You know, it's official now. So, uh, um, and he won, he goes, you know, uh, to protect you, you should wear a wire. I go, are you out of your mind? I'm like, I'm not going to make my situation go from bad to worse. I'm like, there's no way, you know? And he gave me his business card and he's like, when things get too tough for you, he'll give me a call. I'm like, all right. And, uh, and that was it. And. Add a couple of friends and now that's next level. Suddenly the laughs get louder, the stories keep flowing and the food tastes better because Pepsi brings out more flavor, more fun and more of the moment. Food deserves Pepsi. What happened? I can't tell you. Like, did they get arrested? Did, did, did the guy get killed? The guys in GA told me what they think happened was that when they have a heavy hitter like you, they're skimming your bets. They're not putting your, your, your bets down in the ledger and handing that into the bosses. Oh, because I, I, I don't know. I, the bar owner told these guys about my gambling winnings and they gave me an unlimited ceiling to bet. Okay. I could bet as often and as much as I wanted per game. You know, like there was no ceiling. So, and it's a boiler room, like it's a boiler room. And they said, the guy running the boiler room is probably maybe an associate. If that, you know. Um, the other guys in the, in the, uh, boiler room, you know, are just workers. Right. And the associate doesn't have the hired killers. Yeah. The boss has the hired killers. Right. But he can't go to the boss because he's been skimming your bets the whole time. Oh, that makes sense. And the person who was the snitch was probably just one of the workers in the boiler room who heard this guy say, Frederick's is an effing dead man. So you might not have even owed money. The mob probably didn't even have money. No. Yeah. What year was that? Uh, this is going back to 2000. Yeah. And it was, it was over sports, right? It's not like they loaned you money. No. So that's that. We've had mafia guys that have had sports books on the show. And it's unlikely in the modern era that they're going to hurt somebody just because you bet. It's one thing if they loaned you 300 grand. Now they're out that money. But when you just renege on a, a general, a bet that's, you know, an illegal bet, but they didn't have to put up any of their own money, you know, they might come after you in certain ways, but they're not just going to go straight to murder. So it sounds like you just were dealing with some kind of bum, low-level guys that were just trying to be tough. You know, I'm driving around with my loaded shotgun in my truck. You know, I got it bad at work. You know, like, it was just hell, man. No, for sure. For sure. You're on edge, hypervigilant 24-7. It's just, just miserable. And then having the FBI tell you that makes you pucker a little. Yeah, for sure. And that's when the mob was still the mob. So I get why you were nervous. Yeah. So how long after this you got clean off of gambling? Yeah. Yeah. So that was, you know, that was in my 30s. And I go into my 40s and I hit a depression, you know, like I didn't know you suffer from PTSD when you've been abused. Mm-hmm. and something triggered my, PTSD. And I just couldn't get out of bed in the mornings to go to work. It was just like climbing Mount Everest every day. And so instead of coffee in my travel mug, I'm putting vodka, I'm putting wine, mimosas, whatever, just thinking that'll get me. So now because I'm depressed and I'm adding alcohol to it, I can hardly get through my days by keeping my eyes open. So then my mind says, well, that cocaine we loved, we can just do little tiny bumps all day to keep us going. And then you're doing cocaine. You don't want to get too jittery while you're working. So you take a Xanax. And that just became daily life for me. And then we go to have a coffee in the deli one day. And in walks my abuser. And I look up from the coffee island. And he sees me. Clark. And he's an old man now. Or he sees you in his 60s, because this is 35 years after. Yeah. Yeah. He's probably 60. Yeah. He's 60 something. Wow. But you recognized him instantly? Yeah. Yeah. His looks never changed. He recognized me. Was he wearing his, I guess he wasn't wearing his sheriff's outfit. No. Was he still working at the time? No. He had retired then. And like I said, I've seen him over the years. It's been a decade since I saw him last. And what's different this time is he has a young boy with him about the age he penetrated me at. And that young boy is calling him the same nickname he used to make me call him. And I hear that nickname. I see that boy, him yelling my name. And I just instantly start going into a panic. And I run out of there, like right by him. He's yelling, where are you going, bud? And I hop in my truck and my life falls apart. And I got zero coping skills. So all I do is dive headfirst into drugs and alcohol. I'm doing heroin now, pain pills, coke around the clock. It's going weeks on end with like single digit. I'm going to sleep for a week, not caring if I live or die. And I can't get that young kid out of my mind. Like he's just like haunting my mind, you know, and I'm like, you know, I just obsess over, is he getting his hair tussled? Is he getting his leg padded? Is he being shown pornography pictures or having beers with him yet? Or is he already at the stage of penetration? And the day everything came to a head, it was the start of the Jerry Sandusky molestation trial out at Penn State. Yeah. Yeah. He was a football coach running a boys camp and molesting kids. Yeah. I think he was like the defensive coordinator for Penn State. For Paterno. Yeah. For Joe Paterno, who knew about it. In hindsight, we know that he knew for decades. And covered. Decades. And covered, or at least didn't say anything. Yeah. And died a hero from college football, died in complete disgrace. Disgrace. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So you saw him, what year was that? Yeah, it was 2011 when he was in the deli with the boy. Okay. And I ran out of there. So he's dodged all consequences. Yep. Yep. And what seeing him did to me was make it realize that it didn't end with me. Like, you know, like, you think, like, you're the last one. And then here it is 34 years later, and he's got another boy. And that just haunted me. Like, haunted me. And so the Sandusky thing happens. That's a complete trigger. And I spent the day out with a friend drinking. I was partying, you know. I stopped at my Italian restaurant, my favorite Italian restaurant on the way home. I was meeting a friend at my house who owed me money. He was going to power wash and stain the cedar siding of the house to pay me back. So I stopped at this Italian restaurant. I see a guy who burned me on a business deal, and I hadn't seen him since the deal went south. And I went up to his table and had words with him. And I went home, and I told my buddy who was dropping off the equipment that I saw this guy, and we were having a glass of wine. And my buddy goes, that guy's got to be number one on your hit list. And for the first time in 34 years, like I was just so beaten down with drugs and alcohol and lack of sleep and whatever. I said, actually. He's number two. The piece of garbage who raped me as a kid is number one. And there it's out. That was the first person you'd ever told? Ever told. And I said, it's time to go confront this piece of garbage. And within 15 minutes, we're in my buddy's van driving to his house. He only lived three miles away. The same house where he abused you? I didn't know. Yeah. I haven't been back there since he penetrated. We drive over there, park halfway up his driveway. He's got a long driveway. Go up. Front door's open, screen door's shut, and there he is sitting there watching TV. And I instantly started going to that panic attack again. And before I could, I just marched up to, like something was controlling me almost, like just marched up to the door, ripped it open, broke the hinge. And I always advise people not to waste their time confronting their abuser because they can never let their guard down. They can never give you the answer you think you deserve or want to hear. You're not going to get closure. No. No. And here's a childhood rape victim of his standing in his door at 930 at night. And. He casually looks over his shoulder and puts his hand up and goes, hey, how are you? Not drop to his knees, start praying, start telling me how sick he is, how he wronged me, start apologizing. None of that. Nothing. Zero. Just, hey, how are you? Like, like you're a little gnat. Go away, little gnat. And I said, hey, how am I? And I raced across his room and a violent, ugly battle to the death began. I had a knife in my hand. This guy was the firearms instructor, still retired as a lieutenant. He was the firearm instructor for two counties, Sussex and Morris County. So anybody in law enforcement. Has to get re-certified with their handgun every year, had to go to him for certification. The guy had over three dozen handguns and shotguns in his house. You've been doing this for 45 years. You better have a handgun strapped to every chair under every table, ready to go. Like, I should have been on a suicide mission. Like, at that point, it was. Right. And we start this violent, ugly, bloody brawl. At one point, he connected with a square punch to my, to my face. I grabbed his shirt to keep from going down and I screamed at him and I brought the knife down and I put the knife straight through my hand. In that way, he came out here and I severed all the ligaments and tendons. So my hands. I was like this now. We're both bleeding. He slips in the blood, falls down. He's sort of up against a wall. And I knelt down, eye level to eye level with him. I told my friend to go get the van. I just wanted to, like. Take it all in. You know, I got this horrific wound. There's no getting out of this. It didn't bring me the relief I thought revenge would bring me. To kill somebody, it's brutal, man. I didn't shoot him. I wasn't a sniper who shot him from hundreds of yards away. This was up close, personal. Did you go into the house with the knife? Yeah. Okay, so you were there to kill him. I was there to bring something to a gunman. Guy who's got three dozen guns in his house and he's the firearms instructor. But in the eyes of the law, that would be premeditated. Arguably. It would – yeah. I mean my defense became passion provocation. Right. And it was the first time ever passion provocation was used decades later after the initial provocation. Right. OK. So – I was arrested the next day. All right. Did you turn yourself in? No. I wouldn't have either. It's hard to do that. No. It probably wouldn't have ended well for me the next day. Like probably wasn't going to be a good call on my part. Right. What do you mean by that? What I mean by that is what I tell people who reach out to me and say they want to do the same thing I did. And I say, well, you're going to have to kill yourself right after. Or you're going to have to get ready for life in prison. It's one of those two things. Right. And I am here today with you and every other speech I've given is to tell people don't do what I did. Your life doesn't have to be forfeited because you experienced something horrific as a child. You know, like – Yeah. You know, like I said, I filled my insides with all negative influences my whole life. Rage, anger, hatred, violence, pornography, drugs, alcohol, sex. That's it. That's what was just coursing through my blood. And if I do life in prison, Dennis Pegg has controlled me from age six all the way to the grave. Right. Do you really want to give your abuser that control? Like that's the sinful part of revenge. Like from the grave, he's going to – your abuser is going to control you. It's like you can't do that. Yeah. It's insanity. And it was from a family member that called for a well-being check on him. Maybe they were thinking – they didn't – I wasn't – my right mind with all the drugs and alcohol at that point in my life. Everybody knew I was coming apart. They didn't know why. Yeah. And they thought maybe I was just, you know, all messed up. Or maybe I had an altercation with him and they could save me from life in prison by getting help to him before he dies. But he was dead. And when they found him, they said, how did you know this is what we were going to find? Right. And then it – came out that it was me. So when I woke up the next morning, my house was surrounded by armed state troopers and detectives from the prosecutor's office. I was ordered out over a bullhorn. Come out of your house with your hands up. You know, the classic line. That's exactly what they told me. I chugged a couple glasses of wine. I had a friend in the state police who had given me a shirt. A month or two. A month or two prior, I went into my bedroom. I put my state police shirt on. Like, what better way to get arrested for murder than wearing the shirt of the organization that's going to arrest you? And as I walked towards my front door, I just was hoping I would get shot as soon as I stepped out. Like, I just – I said to God, a God who I had nothing to do with, I abandoned God at age 12 when the rape happened. And I said, God, let me go. One of these guys shoot me and put me out of my misery. I'm done with this life. And that didn't happen. I was handcuffed on my front lawn, spread-eagled, taken to the police barracks. And then the rest is history, you know. Wow. So you're charged with first-degree murder. First-degree murder charge. I met a lieutenant of the state police who did the crime scene. He was in charge of a crime scene. He was in charge of a crime scene unit that covered seven counties. And he came into my holding cell and he said, look, man, my detectives are waiting in another room with the prosecutor's detectives to interrogate you. He goes, your blood's all over that scene. This isn't a whodunit. He goes, but your life isn't over, man. Like, he said something moved in him when he looked at me. To say, I got to help this dude. Like, because he said he could tell I mailed it in. And he's like, if you go into that other room and open your mouth, you could derail the whole rest of your life. I'm telling you, go in there, request a lawyer, and don't say another word. And I said to him, why would you tell me that? And he said, because I can't look you in the eye as a man and tell you if the same thing happened to me that I wouldn't have done what you did. So you had already told the cops why you did it, the arresting officers? That guy. Okay. That guy, just for whatever reason, I trusted him. Yeah. And he asked me, was this a one-off incident or did it happen over time? And I told him it happened over time. And he said, all right, I got it. So you lied? No, it did happen over time. Well, you told me it only happened over time. It only happened once. The penetration only happened once. Right. Okay. That's interesting. Yeah. All right. So you're fighting your case now. You got a lawyer. You're obviously— I go to the county jail. I'm kept in a suicide cell for four weeks. I had emergency hand surgery from the barracks. I went to the hospital, the hospital to the jail. My family was sending in all different lawyers, you know, one guy came in, you know, with all this gold jewelry and Rolex, and he's sitting there, like, the whole time he's, like, doing this and, yeah, yeah, yeah. And he's telling me all these cases he represented, which were high-profile cases, and he lost them all. And I'm just sitting there watching him, like, touch his nose every five seconds, and I'm like, this guy's doing coke. Like— Like, I've been doing coke for a while. I know it all. I'm like, I'm not hiring this guy. And then this guy came in, Dan Perez, and he said, I think you got a valid defense, and your life isn't over, and— This must have been all over the news, too. Yeah. You killed a—murdered a sheriff. Oh, it was huge in our area. Wow. And instantly, like, in less than a week, people started a free Clark campaign. Like, bumper stickers everywhere. Right. The prosecutor, during one of my hearings in court, even told the judge, Your Honor, now, I'm held in the jail where this guy worked his whole career. And yet the prosecutor's telling the judge, Your Honor, I don't know how I'm going to get a fair trial, because driving to work, all I see is free Clark stickers on every car. Yeah. And I'm thinking, how am I going to get a fair trial when I'm being held in the jail where this guy worked? I thought they were going to give me the beating of a lifetime. Yet one guard after another after another came in. Like, hey, man, I never worked with a guy. I'm hearing some rough stuff about him. Just keep your mouth shut and don't talk to anybody. And that was, like, over and over and over and over. And, you know, when I got put in general population— Show button here. Football is finally back, and PrizePix is going crazy with the deals to start the season, giving out promos every day in September. On PrizePix, you can make all the picks you want, all in the same app. And now— PrizePix is available nationwide. So what are you waiting for? Lock in for kickoff, because everyone and everything is on PrizePix. What you want? Download the app today and use code SPOTIFY to get $150 instantly in lineups if you win your first $5 lineup. PrizePix. Run your game. I, you know— He must have the keys to the yard. Oh, man, but I just— There's nothing those guys respect more than, I mean— That's what they do to guys like that in prison. Yeah. I just—I was, like, suicidal ideation. You know, like, I don't want to do life in prison, you know. I had that sentence hanging over me for three plus years. And you're in jail the whole time. Yeah. Yeah. My lawyer said, I don't want you bailed out. He's like, I don't trust your mental state that you won't harm yourself because you're addicted to drugs and alcohol. I don't want you out. And I don't think it looks good for a murder suspect to be out at an Italian restaurant hooting and hollering with his buddies. Right. So every day you do now will go towards your sentence. Just get comfortable. You know, so that's what I did. And I read a book when I was locked up called Man's Search for Meaning by Viktor Frankl, Holocaust survivor. It's, like, uber popular in prison. It's all over. I read it. I did. And there was that line in there, though, faced with a situation you cannot change, you are challenged to change yourself. And I'm like, wow, I'm like, I might have to do life. Like I got to change myself. Like I can't change this situation. And, uh, and then I just, uh, devoted myself to begin healing. Like, uh, people from all over the country sent me books. I'm like, they, they, they were sending money to my mother for, for, for lawyer, for commissary sending me books. Like you can only keep six books per guy in a cell. So we, you know, we had 12 of my books already. And then I had books in all cells all over the place in the tier. And, uh, you know, for the first couple of years, I fantasized about a line of Coke and a glass of red wine. And then, you know, somewhere in that start of the third year, like it's a, I just. Snapped out of it. I'm like, what am I nuts? Like, I can't go back to ever doing that. You know, I'd tell you, tell a couple of guys I was close with, if I could never get out of this life sentence, I can't wait to do a line of Coke and have a glass of red wine again. And they'd be like, yeah, man. Yeah. And then, and then it finally like, it was just like a slap across the face. Like, no, that's, that's done and over that ship has sailed. And, uh, we, you have to hire a psychiatrist to do that. And, uh, and then you have to hire a psychiatrist to do that. do a full examination on you and draft a report. My lawyer had her slow roll it. And, you know, like just before the three year mark, like a month or two before he had her, you know, turn it in. So it's now part of discovery and everything's in there. So it's not like a whodunit anymore. You know, like everything about the abuses in there, the murders in there, everything's in there. Have you given a statement to the cops? No. Okay. No, never gave a statement. And they, the prosecutor was after my lawyer this whole time. They have in Jersey, what's called queen for the day. I don't know if you ever heard that term. And I, and I, and I'm like, just the term alone, like I snapped at my lawyer for even bringing it up to me. And I snapped at the prosecutor for even wanting me to do that. But queen for the day is a legal term where they can. They can ask you any questions. You can give them the answers and it can't be used against you. Yeah. I have heard of this actually. Yeah. And I said to my lawyer, I go, why would I want to do that though? He goes, you don't. He goes, but that's what the prosecutor, see if Clark will be queen for the day. See if Clark will be queen for the day. What is the point of that? The prosecutor probably wanted to know if he has a chance of winning or not. Yeah. To help him. To help him. And they wanted my co-defendant. Like they thought I might've had a valid reason for doing what I did, but he didn't have a valid reason for going. Talking to the guy, the guy that went with you. The guy who drove me. So he, was he being charged as well? Yeah. He was charged with. With like being an accessory? First degree. Yeah. Fuck. Yeah. He's facing the lights also. I'd be so pissed at you. Oh, but he knew though. He went along, he knew. Yeah. So. Good friend, but. Yeah. Took one for the team. Yeah. No shit. So they did my case first ahead of him. And after the prosecutor read that psych exam, they offered me a plea to second degree manslaughter. So now all of a sudden life is off the table and second degree is five to 10. Wow. So my lawyer's like, I'll go either way you want. He's like, no, I still think we got a great case. He goes, but there's a dead guy. What? His throat slashed, he goes, and he was a cop. And there's going to be people that can't look past that. He goes, is there going to be 12 out of 12? I can't tell you, bro. He goes, but you tell me what you want to do. Take a couple of weeks and let me know. And it was just too risky. You know, I already had three years in. Right. So, so I took the plea deal. If you had blown trial, what would the, like the max sentence have been? Well, if I went to trial, that plea deal's off. If I went to trial, that plea deal's off. And it's 30 to life back on. Oh, right, right. And if I move that, it's 30 years minimum. I see. Gotcha. Which you got to do 85, so it's 27 years. Oh, okay. I thought they dropped the charges. I thought they offered you like a second degree plea. If I take the plea. If I don't take the plea and I want to go to trial, I'm going to trial for a murder charge. Right. For first degree murder. Okay. Gotcha. Yeah. Gotcha. Okay. So yeah, I mean, I would have signed too. Yeah. Let's go. So, so, so I take the plea and now their side has to do a psych exam on me and draft a report. And we originally put our defense as diminished capacity. Their guy is the one who came up with passion provocation. There's, there's four pillars of passion provocation. You know, you have to be provoked. Then you have, you have to, there has to be a timeframe and then you have to. You have to be impassioned and then there's has to be a narrow timeframe and he drew up the whole thing that said Clark fits perfectly into passion provocation. Okay. So you saw, but you, it was a whole year after you had last seen, what the fuck's his name? Yeah. It wasn't a full year peg, but there was numerous events in that timeframe that impassioned me even further and seeing and not being able to get out of my head that boy. Hmm. And get peg out. Like I am, all my repressed stuff is ripped open now. But how, if I'm just playing devil's advocate, if I'm a prosecutor, how do I believe that you were actually molested by this guy? Other victims, a lot of other victims came forward. All right. There we go. How many, how many victims? There was a lot. That's all I can tell you. I don't, you know. Like dozens? I think, you know, the, the state police guy said at one time, just them alone had 14. And then my lawyer and another lawyer helping him said the phone was ringing nonstop with, with, with victims and the prosecutor was getting victims. Right. Yeah. So it was, it was. How wild is that? Like a guy, it speaks to the corruption of, and the impunity of a lot of cops. Like the whole town sympathize with you. Even the jail guards, even the CEOs are like, oh yeah, we heard about this dude. But yet he was still allowed to be like free. I mean, it's tricky and training and working. Yeah, I mean, I know, I know. It's wild. And it's tricky. Like if you don't have victims coming forward, you know, how can you, how can you stop him? I don't know, you, you, you, you take out a billboard in town or something. I don't know. You know, like I don't, that's the thing I don't have the exact answer for, but it should never have, he got out back, you know, you're going back to the eighties and seventies where everything was. There's no computer. Everything's handwritten. So the prosecutor had to go through boxes and boxes and boxes and boxes. And they found three other cases that were brought against him. Boy Scouts went on jamborees, different Boy Scouts at different times came home with hickeys on their body. And the parents were like, what is that? Those marks. And they were like, from Dennis Pegg, took him to the state police barracks. Mother filed charges. Father came the next day. My son labeled gay. I recant those charges. Took him to the state, another family, took him to the state police barracks. Family months down the road, my son's too traumatized to testify in court. We drop our charges. Then he's sitting in that Dunkin Donuts threatening the mother and son. And obviously your defense had access to these documents, right? Yeah. It's part of discovery. Right. So you- To the prosecutor's credit. He says he ran a dual investigation. Investigating me for the murder and investigating him for what he'd been doing his whole life. Right. No. This prosecutor did the right thing. I'm just saying there's certain areas of the country where prosecutors, I mean certain areas, many of them are guilty of prosecutorial misconduct and they withhold evidence even though they know it will exonerate the defendant. Absolutely. Happens all the time. But it sounds like your lawyer, in case you didn't get a plea deal, he was ready to go. He had people that were going to testify for you and he had those documents. That kid, that kid from the Dunkin Donuts mother, he's the very first one that came forward and put his name in the paper, did a full article on how Dennis Pegg raped him as a child. So you were the first one and then the dominoes just started toppling and everybody started coming out and speaking. Yeah. That's good. One of his best friends, Pegg's best friend, who stayed a best friend with him, came forward to the prosecutor. Yeah. And said, "Dennis did admit to me years prior that he enjoyed blowing Boy Scouts. But I didn't take it as real." And he was such a great guy, I couldn't imagine that he was being honest with me. Yeah. Because that's what buddies joke about. Yeah. Like, "Really? You knew about this?" So it seems like everybody. Yeah. Everybody had a story about Dennis. And especially now that I'm out, everybody comes up to me with a story. And then you see the awareness. obituary where his family lists 60 organizations as like a tribute that he belonged to. He belonged to the Kiwanis Club. Like Kiwanis' mission is the betterment of children in your community. And he's using that to hunt children. He started an autobahn society to teach young boys to find birds and molesting children. He became a trail angel on the Appalachian Trail, which runs from Georgia on up to Maine. And he would go out on the Appalachian Trail. You get reports when they're coming through and you're supposed to hand out a water or leave, you know, protein bars. He would come back to my house. I'll make a hot meal for you and take a warm shower and then pounce on them. This went on for 45 years. And the monster should have been stopped. Oh, yeah. No, this guy deserved to die. And you know what? A lot of law enforcement said to me is this guy needed to go. Sorry it was you, but he needed to go. And I just like, I'm like, I had to flush my life away to face life in prison to put an end to this guy's reign of terror. Like it shouldn't come down to the victim who's already been victimized as a child to have to put their abuser in the grave, you know? Well, what could you have done differently, though? I mean, could you have gone to, could you have, I don't want to put any blame on you, though, as a child, as a boy, especially in that era. Now, things are so culturally different. You know, I feel like a child could speak out and not have stigma around him. And plus, look, this shoehorns perfectly into the change of the law. Even if you had been an adult and you had come forward about what he did to you as a child, you wouldn't have done that. You wouldn't have done that. You it wouldn't have been enough to put a case on him. - At the time, no. Law's been changed since. - Yes. - And the criminal law's been changed. - Okay, so talk about that. - Yeah, I don't know, I had the prosecutor on my podcast. - Okay. - And like, what could I have done different? He's like, at the time, really nothing. He's like, but you should have come forward. So like, you build a case of evidence against somebody. Was there five other adult males that came forward? And you'd be number six, and put the spotlight on him. So, you know, he's like, I wasn't the prosecutor back when those other cases were dropped. I didn't know, I never knew this guy. Never heard anything about him. - Right. - You know? So I would just urge people to come forward now. And you know, like I said earlier, you know, like, - Yeah. - At the time, 32 states had updated their laws. You know, so by now. - There's statute of limitation laws. - Yeah, and the criminal law as well, you know? So like, you know. - Well, explain that though. So there was no, there was a statute of limitations on child rape, sexual assault in New Jersey at this time. - Yeah, which was, you had to come forward at 18 to 20. As soon as you turned adult, you had two years to file a lawsuit. - Right. - So like. - Am I coming forward after six years of grooming and sex abuse and penetration to file a lawsuit at 18? - Well, and what about the criminal statute? Was that the same? - At the time, I think it was five years. - Okay. - So that was done too. - So you had until 23 or something? - No, I had, it was five years, I think, from the time of abuse. - Oh my goodness. - Yeah, so it's just. - You would have been about 17 or something? - Yeah. - Yeah. - So that's just not happening. - It's just not happening. - Yeah. So now, well, we're jumping ahead, but. - Yeah. - We're jumping ahead, but that the new law that I and other advocates worked on by calling on senators, by testifying at the House Judicial Committee, takes it up to age 55. And they say you, abuse victims usually don't break their silence until 48 to 52. It's like you live with that pain. And then like, and you're numbing yourself, and you're having sex, and you're doing drugs and alcohol, and going through marriages. And switching careers. And then at 48 to 52, you finally confront the monster. - Wow. So I got another eight years of living like this? - Yep. - Before I start to change? - Yeah. - Fuck, dude. - Yeah, man. So I take that plea deal. - Yeah. - The judge gives me the minimum. The judge says, on record, I know Mr. Fredericks only did what he did because of what was done to him. I apologize to you, Mr. Fredericks. For having to send you to prison for a single day. But I'll give you the minimum, five years. And so I went to Newark, New Jersey to Northern State Prison. My very first day there, a therapist came up to my cell and said, I followed your case on the news. I can't believe you're here. Will you do therapy with me? And I said, yeah. So I had to go to prison to get therapy for the first time in my life. Second one-on-one, she said, I run a group. I run a group therapy class for childhood trauma, not necessarily molestation, just childhood trauma. She goes, I think it'd be beneficial for you. So I joined that. I'm in there with Bloods, Latin Kings, Muslims, Christians, black, white, abuse victims, horrible abuse, sexual abuse. And we all shared, we cried, we would hug. We took an oath, nothing left that room. 'Cause you can't show vulnerability in prison. You know, you can't be talking about male raping, you know, male rape in prison, you know, but we did. And that was the biggest healing thing for me. For the first time in a New Jersey prison, they offered a meditation class. I was one of 15 guys out of 2,300 to get accepted into that. Vipassana meditation every Friday for two hours in a classroom. Wow, there's just all that other insanity swirling around. I got my faith back. Like as a child, I was in the Episcopal church, you know, I was, I was an altar boy. The minister made God sound like a sovereign God. You do good, good will happen. You step out of line, you incur God's wrath. And when I was in jail, this dude came and taught Bible study. And the first one I went to, cause I couldn't pray. Like when I would close my eyes and try to pray, it would just be sexual abuse. And I was like, I don't know what to do. Like when I would close my eyes and try to pray, it would just be sexual images or violent images or the murder or the rape, just swirl. And this guy hugged me as I was going into the room and he whispered in my ear. Last time a guy whispered in my ear, you know what he whispered. And this guy whispered, "I've been praying for you in my congregation. "I've been praying for you." And I pulled away from him. I go, "Do you know who I am?" He's like, "I read the paper. "I know who you are." I was like, "Wow. "All right. "Thanks, man." And he taught about free will. He didn't open the Bible. He said, "I just want to teach you all about free will. "You are not puppets on a string "that God's orchestrating from the clouds. "You've been given free will. "The guy next to you has been given free will. "He can use it for evil. "You can use yours for good. "You could be vulnerable when he's using it. "He's using his for evil, "and something horrible could happen to you. "It doesn't mean God allowed it to happen. "It means God can't interject in every little thing in life "or I have life." That's right. He goes, "So it's free will." And that allowed me to drop the anger towards God. 'Cause I used God as like a lucky rabbit's foot my whole life. Like, it would be like doing a drug deal in Patterson, you know, getting an ounce of Coke and like in a spot I shouldn't be in and be like, "Bro, you owe me, man. "You better get me through this." That's how I talked to God. And that allowed me to start praying after that Bible study class. And then in prison, I kept going to Bible study. I kept going to church. If you want to see a lively church service, go to prison. Holy mackerel. There was nothing like that, man. It was awesome. I get out, I get released from prison and I become an advocate to overturn that law. Yeah. Like, I went and saw a high profile law firm. I wanted to file a lawsuit against the Boy Scouts. He said, "You have no case." He said, "There's advocates who've been working for 15 years "to get a new law passed. "Maybe your story's so over the top, "you can sway the senators that are holding it up." And I'm like, "All right, let's do it." So he introduced me to other advocates and we just, started hitting the pavement and talking to senators. And I got to testify before the House Judicial Committee. I told them they would all have blood on their hands if they didn't pass a new law. They would, if they didn't pass this law, there would be a whole bunch of other clerks running around doing what I did. And, you know, it was powerful, you know, and the law passed unanimously. I began speaking. I spoke at colleges. I spoke at churches. I spoke in high schools. I spoke at, like, every substance abuse center around. Like, 'cause they say 90% of people who have People in addiction have been abused as a child. So, like, my story resonated with everybody in substance abuse centers. I started writing my memoir when I was in prison. And when I got out, I instantly got an agent in Manhattan. And we did two book proposals and got no offers. And on the third book proposal, we drafted up. Simon & Schuster offered me a great advance to publish my memoir. Let's plug away. Now is the shameless plug time. No. No shame. And, I mean, to get a publishing deal is so tough, dude. Like, everybody self-publishes. Like, I was able to go the traditional route, get a publishing deal with Simon & Schuster. My book, Scarred, came out last July. The first print sold out. We're going through the second print. The paperback comes out in July, you know, two weeks from now. And it's not a trauma dump. This is a book of hope. This is a book of inspiration. My story, the arc, is trauma, revenge, redemption. You know, get the book if you want to be inspired. Get the book if you know somebody struggling with addiction. Get the book if you know somebody who's been abused. Just get the book, you know, and turn your life around. It's all in here. Yeah. And, NBC, Dateline NBC producer did a documentary on me, which aired on the Oxygen Network a few years ago. From doing that, they got me on Tamron Hall daytime talk show to promote it. I'm on a talk show. I went from facing life in prison, wanting to end it, to getting a book deal. It's Simon & Schuster being on Tamron Hall daytime talk show. Unfortunately, my older brother couldn't talk about it. Unfortunately, my next door neighbor, Jeff, couldn't talk about it. When I was 17 years old, Jeff was 23. He put a shotgun in his mouth and blew his head off. My brother and I found him next door. When I got out of prison, I was living with my brother. He had lost his tire automotive center while I was locked up. He had lost his marriage. He had lost his 33-acre farm. He spiraled into the bottle. I envisioned as I sat in prison, me and my brother having these great heart-to-heart talks, and yet he was like a foreigner. Who I didn't know when I got out of prison. And I could never catch him. He only had a little small window in the morning to catch him before he went off on the races again. And he did decide to file a lawsuit against Boy Scouts. I told him like, you know, if something happened, the only thing these pricks understand is the almighty dollar. Make them hurt with the dollar. Mm-hmm. He came to me. There was a cutoff for lawsuits because the Boy Scouts filed for bankruptcy. Dirty weasels, you know? And my brother came to me two weeks before the cutoff and said, I want to file. I'm like, all right, man. I go, you've got to fill out a 12-page report. And you've got to be specific. I got hooked up with the lawyer I was using. He filled out the 12 pages. He didn't use computers. He gave it to me and said, can you email this to the lawyer? I said, yeah. So I had to take pictures of each page, and I got to read everything that he wrote, which isn't something you want to read about your brother. And when people break their silence, one of two things happen. They either start going or they sink even further. My brother worked. I wouldn't follow it up with therapy, with talking about it. He wouldn't talk to me anymore after that report. That first bite of your favorite sub, followed by ice-cold Pepsi. Add a couple of friends, and now that's next level. Suddenly, the laughs get louder, the stories keep flowing, and the food tastes better. Because Pepsi brings out more flavor, more fun, and more of the moment. Food deserves Pepsi. Grab a Pepsi. Zero sugar today. It was abused. Yeah. Yeah. And your neighbor who blew his head off was abused. Yeah. And after my arrest, Dennis Pegg's nephew killed himself with a shotgun. And the prosecutor said they found sexual provocative images on Pegg's computer of the nephew. And three years ago, I came home and found my brother dead on our kitchen floor. Drank himself to death. I did CPR until the paramedics got there. They worked on him for an hour, but he was gone. So I speak out now. I do shows like yours, not for the graphic thing of murdering a pedophile. Yeah, that'll get some people going. But I really want to concentrate on getting people to break their silence. Getting healthy habits. Like, I coach people online. I started a podcast after my brother died because I didn't want other families to go through the pain we were going through of losing a loved one. I normalized talking about this so that other dudes will see a strong male figure talking about the shame he went through. You've got to get revenge out of your head. Like, you've been locked up. Like, is there any joy in being locked up? It's hell. It's misery. It's not a life worth living. Let alone if you're doing 40 plus years like the Menendez brothers. You're not going to get a five-year sentence like I got. So you're going to have all that same pain and trauma in a prison setting. Right, in prison. It doesn't heal you. I had to do all the work to heal. The murder didn't heal me. Right, right. I can't stress that enough to people. You've got to ask somebody. Somebody you trust to just sit in the mud with you, not try to fix you. Everybody thinks they have to go into fix-it mode. Tell somebody you love and trust, sit in the mud with me. I've got to tell you something. I don't want you to fix me. And then get it out of your system. And then follow it up by talking more. If you saw my court video, which is on YouTube, of me at my plea deal, I got to read a statement. I was so broken, dude. I was slunched out. And my chair, as small as can be, head down, shaking, crying. But I got through it. And then I spoke again. And again and again. And now I can sit here with you and talk about all this garbage and not give two hoots. Right. And that's how you've got to get through it. You've got to start addressing it. You've got to do the work. You've got to speak up. Yeah, man. But if you do decide to kill your molester and you happen to be in the state of New Jersey, there's now some good case law. That you put down. A little levity never hurts. Yeah, of course, of course. And you know what? I was just back at the court for the first time last week. My defense attorney just got the head prosecutor job for the county. Wow. There you go. So pedophiles, look out. He's coming for you. Oh, shit, man. He's the head prosecutor. Yeah, dude. We've got to get some Epstein Files stuff going. So one other thing, just to show people where life can go once you begin healing, once you take your life in a new direction. I got so far off course. Now I came back on course. That girl in college that I lost, she haunted me for 30 years. 30 years I heard her screaming in my head, why couldn't you commit to me? Why, Clark? Why, why, why? After I got that law passed, that was about two years after I got out of prison. I found her on Facebook. I drafted up a message. I erased it. I drafted up another message, and I thought, is it better to just keep the fantasy alive in my head of what we had? Because if I send this, and she's like, what are you, frigging nuts, brother? It's been 30 years. You're still pining over me? I'll never be able to go to sleep before you do. You slit a guy's throat. Sorry. Kick rocks, kid. Come on. Grow up and move on. Sure, sure. I couldn't, though. I had her stuck in my head. And I sent, you got to hit the send button in life. Never, never be afraid to hit the send button. And I sent the message, and she responded. And I responded. And she responded. And two weeks of responding back and forth went on. I said, why don't we have a cup of coffee? And we had a cup of coffee. And that was seven years ago in April. And we've been back together ever since. Bravo. Bravo. Look at that. That's where your life can go when you decide to not be a victim anymore and to heal. So let's plug away one more time. Yeah, brother. Scarred. Scarred, man. Scarred by Clark Fredericks, you guys. The link to that will be in the description of the episode. Check out your podcast. Free like me. Man, this is really – this has been a different one, dude. I really enjoyed this. I mean – I hope it doesn't ace with your audience, man. I didn't enjoy it. Maybe perhaps it's the wrong word, but I – No, no. You're keeping me safe. Yeah, I'm really grateful. Really grateful to have you on and for sharing that story. You have these people who lead these crazy, drug-addicted, murdering lives. How many of them have been abused that come on and just haven't talked about it? I'm here to talk about it. Whatever, trolls, come at me. All right, you guys. Take care. We'll talk to you later. Peace. Peace. through their Labor Day clearance on furniture, area rugs, mattresses, and more. Plus, surprise flash deals you can't miss. Whether it's one room or the whole house, Wayfair has pieces for every style and budget. Shop Wayfair's Labor Day clearance now through September 7th at Wayfair.com. Wayfair. Every style, every home.