How a Mormon Kid From Texas Became a Mexican Cartel Sicario

late night bites with friends already hard to beat that first too hot bite of fries you couldn't wait for followed by ice cold pepsi now that hits different suddenly the energy kicks back in the night goes longer and the laughs don't stop because pepsi brings out more flavor more fun and more of the moment food deserves pepsi grab a pepsi zero sugar today hey it's ryan reynolds here for mint mobile now i was looking for fun ways to tell you that mint's offer of unlimited premium wireless for 15 a month is back so i thought it would be fun if we made 15 bills but it turns out that's very illegal uh so there goes my big idea for the commercial give it a try at mintmobile.com slash switch upfront payment of 45 for three months 90 for six months or 180 for 12 month plan required 15 per month equivalent taxes and fees extra initial plan term only greater than 50 gigabytes may slow when network is busy see terms my dad was mormon um we went to the church of jesus christ lauderdale saints maybe a week went by and he asked me if i wanted to drive i was taking a bag not knowing what's in the bag just knowing sometimes the bag's heavy sometimes the bag's not heavy one day uh a guy had to like check his product and it didn't look like cocaine i'm driving heroin cartels are professionals at controlling chaos they kept a guy alive for four days i was there to pick up his body they blow torched his nuts they blow torched the bottom of his feet his tongue was out he had his fingernails missing and a couple of these little nubs you're my target i'm not trying to hit nobody else i'm gonna get four in you man i'm sorry i'm a bad person learning to be good you've gone so far at that point it's just normal what happens when a sheltered mormon kid from a houston suburb has a chance meeting with a mexican cartel he starts killing for them in today's episode you'll learn how a young man named tyler worked as a heroin mule a migrant smuggler and then eventually as a hitman for the gulf cartel with 16 confirmed kills for the organization in the cities of reynosa and matamoros in northern mexico this was shocking even for me and before we get started if you could do me a huge personal favor and hit that like button subscribe to the channel and drop a comment i would be forever indebted to you all right you guys prepare to be stunned it's tyler the hitman right here on the connect with johnny mitchell tell us how you grew up uh i grew up with two parents they lived in you know they got divorced and both got remarried uh my dad was mormon um we went to the church of jesus christ latter-day saints um a little bit different there you know church is three hours on sunday and uh you know you got to do if you're in high school you're gonna go to seminary in the morning for one hour uh you got mutual on wednesdays very you know you gotta be very active and i didn't fit in with that because in my mom's she wasn't mormon it was normal you know keep your grades up i just need to know where you are but you know go be a kid so yeah i did not get along with you know at the church a lot when did you start i don't know acting out getting in trouble because you took such a such a left turn from going from being a strict from a strict mormon house to well i grew up like that but it got annoying when it started to be negotiate like to watch football on sundays what my dad's you can't you know we don't watch uh we don't watch tv on sundays you just live with the family that's you know that's that's like common for mormons you actually don't like watch normal tv it's like bro i negotiate to watch a football game but like you know the you know i've been at my mom's and like before i could watch football it wasn't a problem like if i would it's smoke some weed oh my god my dad's yeah i'd be grounded for six months like yeah like normal kid there was crazy to be at my mom's i mean i want to just be smoking weed in the backyard but yeah i'd occasionally go tap the blunt and come back home and it was like normal lifestyle started being annoying all the time like everything be a church related like you're asking for so much my time i don't even like being here what do you think i'm gonna do i'm gonna get mad i don't like it here i don't get along with these people i'm not gonna watch my mouth like i'm gonna say exactly what i want i'm not gonna sugarcoat it for linda because you know you know it has to be easy for you at your pta meeting i bro y'all kiss my ass with that y'all y'all you know come on we're all adults we talk crap about each other we're not perfect but we try to be perfect y'all be doing the most oh i gotta get seminary in the morning that's crazy so you're from houston or just outside of houston outside of houston i lived in conroe were you fascinated by the streets like were you influenced by the the criminal culture of houston no i just want to make extra money you know like i worked a job like my dad taught me to work a job and you know i worked i worked at a golf course uh but like all the other kids work part-time jobs i worked a full-time job worked about 35 hours and went to school it's like yeah a little extra cash on the side like yeah that was that was nice that's like a little weed money me and my friends want to go out bro i got it like let's go have fun that's really all it was about then an adventure yeah yeah yeah okay so talk about how you first talk about your first adventure oh so it was heroin and i didn't know i didn't know because you know in the real drug game you don't open the bag you know that's real don't look back don't touch the bag just take the bag we're supposed to go because it's not your business it doesn't matter you're being asked to take this point point b that's what the guy told me point a to point b and come back that's it okay how'd you get put on uh a kid at school um he stole something for someone and i i helped him hide it i was an accomplice and we didn't get caught you know we did our time yeah we had to talk with the cop for a couple minutes but he didn't find nothing well i didn't really talk to him at all in class he was like super you know sport athlete dude and i didn't think i thought i was kind of weird i just moved to that school was he popular no well no because he could stay to school long enough but he was gifted oh so he was like a troublemaking athlete yeah yeah black guy yeah yeah but yeah very uh i never even saw him play but yes very very talented is what kids said when he got to move to our school oh god yeah but yeah he told me two weeks later like we started talking a little bit and maybe a week went by and he asked me if i wanted to drive for for you know make a little extra money and i thought well you know he's black probably just weed but you know i met his uncle because he did not drive he's just asking you know they were looking for a white kid as i found later they just needed a white boy um for for unusual circumstances as i would call them um yeah i was taking a bag not knowing what's in the bag just knowing sometimes the bag's heavy uh sometimes the bag is not heavy but i was taking a bag sometimes the bag's heavy uh sometimes the bag's not heavy but until one day uh a guy had to like check his product and it didn't look like cocaine it was kind of beige so i mean i assume like this you know i'm driving heroin which again i still didn't know the circumstances then of like what would happen if i got caught it really didn't matter to me i thought weeds like all you know everything's the same charge how bad could it be and where are you taking the bags like where are you how far are you driving i'm going to south houston i live in spring i'm never driving more than an hour from anywhere in south houston and how much you getting paid 400 every time right so they're getting over on you but yeah yeah the price i mean i would never but the price would be now a thousand a key what are you talking about like we got a way out risk reward here people come on but yeah i was getting over on me yeah did you have any close calls yes yeah um one time we had to go over to mexico uh and uh a gentleman was stealing and anyone who participated in driving that day which i was one of the people we had to go and you know have a talk with this guy little did we know that he knew he was stealing and he chainsawed him in half in front of everybody some of these guys were not with that like i threw up i'm gonna be honest like that's not it you shouldn't see that um another guy puked but he kind of needed to start to understand something too so we went back inside this little warehouse where he had a discussion and me and the first guy was trying to get out of there we were too threw up we're trying to we're trying to leave this is too much but when i'm walking out you know i thought this guy was dead and when you are getting tortured you actually pass out so he passed out well i hear him like mumble something in spanish and a comes out my ass and goes back in my ass hole so quick i swear to god and i almost lost my legs i literally almost fell like i didn't have legs for a minute he was changed he was chainsawed in half his guts are hanging out his his stuff his like what you see like on the war movie that's real but like sometimes you don't die you don't like actually die yet you'll pass out you may bleed out but he woke back up from it that's good out of me yeah how many of you were brought down there six and these are all the drivers for this present for that day anyone who drove that day had to go other than that probably his some of his people he had like 10 guys with him but now was it the black guy the uncle of your friend at school who ordered this no this was the this was his people this man was his people this guy was not a black guy his connect yes but well i mean no this was someone that works with them but the point is is like one of us had handed him something and he was stealing anyone who was present driving that day had to go we didn't even know that this guy is gonna yeah like i didn't know i you know no one said that wow how old was the kid getting towards gonna be more than 25 26. yeah and you're still in high school i'm still in high school yeah yeah i held up a whole story to stay at a friend's house so i could go to the border not knowing oh my god like i'm gonna try to get some cocaine and like i'm gonna have fun i'm experienced that's not how that went yeah Yeah, I was ready to go back immediately. Like, yeah, we were all trying to leave. And you kept working for the organization after that? Well, we had an agreement six months, six months to drive with them for unusual circumstances, which I found out later was really you just had someone roll on you, and you were being watched. And you needed, like, the most least conspicuous person to do some stuff for you, which ended up being me. Okay, so their organization was being watched, and that's why they needed somebody, a square, to come in and work for them. Yeah, which I found out later, you know. After a couple months of being done, I find that out, you know, that really you were just being looked at. What do you think that did to you, seeing a person murdered like that? Nothing, because I have to go home. Whatever the fuck's going on, I have a normal life. I can't—I don't want this to—I don't want this to correlate. So you got to go home and figure it out. Like, you got to snap out of it. That's not what happened. The first two hours of being home was horrible. It was the worst experience of my life. It was terrible. It was like being in Alice in Wonderland. Like, everything looks different to me, but everything feels terrible. Like, I feel like if I touch anything, I'm going to be sick. I feel like if I drink water, I'm going to be sick. I feel like if I eat, I'm going to be sick. I feel like if I sit down, I'm going to be sick. So I smoked a blunt, threw up instantly. Threw up, yeah. Yeah, on the side of my house. Like, I was so sad, I didn't even want to, like, walk away from the house to go smoke. And, yeah, I threw that blunt out, and, yeah, bro, shower time. Like, I have school. I got to— Did your parents have any idea any of this was going on? No. No, absolutely not. You were just great at hiding from them? Well, this is where it got bad. I'm pretty talkative, but I don't think I said a word to myself for, like, two weeks, or much less to anybody. And that's when the teachers started being like, Hey, man, hey, Tyler, what's going on? And I'm realizing, like, I can't do this. Like, I got to snap out of it. So that's what I did. I went to school, and Dad's like, that's it. I'm good. Like, next day, like, one of my friends saw me, and I was good again. But I didn't say a word to, like, anybody for, like, two weeks. Yeah. The perfect lunch combo. That first bite of your favorite sub, followed by ice-cold Pepsi. Add a couple of friends, and now that's next level. Suddenly, the laughs get louder, the stories keep flowing, and the food tastes better. Because Pepsi brings out more flavor, more fun, and more of the moment. Food deserves Pepsi. Grab a Pepsi Zero. True Sugar today. Wow. Did you ever have to be violent? Did you ever have any close calls yourself? Yeah, I was engaged in a couple shootouts. It's not like I'm trying to hurt anybody, but, you know, you shoot me, I got to shoot you. So, yeah, Mexico's a lot different. Gravitating towards down the border with those people is different. It's a blessing for us to be here, Johnny, and we go shoot out in the police, and they can come fuck us up. But there, it's different. They do what they're told. The cops do what they're told. Yeah, they do what they're told. They, it's not, and it's not even like they're bitches. It's like, hey, we, the one thing that you keep saying is very true. Y'all call them gangbangers, you call them whatever you want. They've been doing this a long time. They're so fucking organized. Everything is compartmentalization. From the time I worked with them down at the border again, I never saw cash. Like, large amount, never. It's all compartmentalization. Yeah. Yeah, never, bro. It's, it's, you know, you're with someone. When there ain't no slip, bro, I'm in a position. That's it. Right. You have someone else doing something else. You have a backup for that person to do that because you don't want them to know about this. Like, yeah, they are, they're organized, and. And you think this was the Gulf Cartel? Well, you never ask, you shouldn't ever ask, ever. Ever ask an active member you think they're active, and that's disrespectful. And you're not going to see them throwing gang signs and all that. You don't see that. But the Gulf Cartel have always ran everything from Reynoso. Reynoso to Montemortes. So that's everything on this side of the border from Brownsville to Hildago and McAllen. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And, and that's kind of the areas I was in. The only time I was a little bit out of the area was Eagle Pass, but I'm just moving people. I'm not stepping on no one's toes. I'm, you know, that's kind of where I was, and I met someone that was near McAllen and kind of started going there. But that's, that's who I'm out there operating for. Mm-hmm. Okay, so did you graduate from high school? Yes, 2013, yeah. So after all this happened. I tried to be normal, you know? Like, my dad was, you know, my dad was a lawyer. He didn't make a lot of money at first. He does now. It was not like that then. Yeah. Getting out of law school, did not make money. Your dad was a lawyer too, right? Yeah. I watched your podcast. Yeah. Yeah. Now, he wasn't successful at first. He was in real estate, and as you know, in 2008. Mm-hmm. So, yeah, it was never a good time. Now, he owns the law firm, and he's, he's badass. He's killing it. Yeah, it's 415 hour. Yeah. So. Did you try to go straight? Yeah. Like, did you go to college? Like, what happened? I tried to do school. I did a semester of college. I passed. I just, wasn't for me. Like, I'm not going to invest in this while I'm going to, like, while I'm working. I tried working at a bunch of jobs. I would do okay. I would get promoted, but yeah, I think a lot of my mental health was just always bad. Like, there were just times I get really, I didn't know how to engage with someone when they were, like, disrespectful to me. But other than that, I was always cool, but there'd be that one day with someone, and bro, we, like, right here, bro. We could punch. Like, I had a manager one time really say, let's go to the freezer. I was like, we're not going to the freezer. I was like, I'm white. It's 17. We're going to, we could punch right here because you're going to get fired, and I'm still going. I yelled it out for everybody. He's like, yeah, like, I wouldn't handle that stuff well. I'd get mad. So, like, I think that would slowly affect me because I'd be really good at a job, and then somewhere, I'd be great. I'd be the dude. And then, yeah, one day I'd get real mad. They'd be like, you're a different person. Did you do drugs? Are you on drugs? No. I mean, I smoke weed. Like, I'll, you know, I'll tap the pen a couple of times, but no, I don't do drugs. Even back then? I had a prescript for Vyvanse, and I would smoke sometimes, but no, not really anything else. And drink. I mean, you're in high school. You're partaking in alcohol. But you've never been diagnosed with, you know, bipolar disorder, schizophrenia, manic? No. I have complex trauma and obsessive compulsive disorder. Okay. I recently have been seeing a therapist last couple months. So I've been addressing that recently, mental health, because it started to get really bad. Good for you. Like, where I couldn't go outside. Like, I wake up with cold sweats, like, every night. I started getting memory loss real bad. It started, like, really deteriorating me with time. Like, with time, it really starts to—every man's different, bro. Like, the weight you want to carry on your shoulders is you. But the question is, is when you break it, how you break? And yeah, that—it slowly started to, like, it got bad. Do you think the trauma comes? Does it come from witnessing that man being murdered with a chainsaw? Or does this—is it something else? Or is it a connection of all of it? Man, in my time at the border, if you don't see death, you're still going to get a phone call about it from someone down there. It's death—the faster—the closer you go to the border, the faster people die. Because it's—you can't keep up. I don't care who you—the FBI, you the DEA. Like, you need to move all your headquarters down there then. Like, because you're not going to stop that. You don't have the resources to just compete. You don't have the resources to just compete, bro. Money talks, bullshit walks, bro. These dudes will throw up everything they have just to keep winning. Like, it's—yeah, it's—I saw a lot of death. And really, I wouldn't even care about seeing death because most people—I don't even care. But there are people you feel responsible for you lose. And I—yeah, I took some bad phone calls sometimes. These were people that you were working with? Yeah. That became friends? You try not to, but yeah. Yeah. You try not to. You don't—you do. You don't try to. Yeah, but when you're in that life and you're living that high stakes, you can't help but get close to people. Yeah, you do. It's like trauma bonding, for real. It is. Can't help it. You're there. Bam. So you saw friends get killed? Or you saw other people get killed? No, but I heard—I got the worst phone calls. I've seen people die, and I've had phone calls that were as hurt, like, by far. How were people getting killed down there, and why? I knew someone that got killed because not only was— Her brother was stealing in a—like, he—you know, he was sloppy. He was doing the white, and he was driving around, and he thought he was being followed, and he left it at her house. Well, they went to the last three places he'd been, and I was in there, so. She was the consequence, and I didn't know, but I was actually helping try to get him back across, not knowing that I can't get one fucking coyote that he ain't fucked off in some type of way. And yeah, like, he—I mean, I leave him there. Like, when I found out about that, and I knew they were going after him, I left. Yeah. Well, you out there. You go ahead and eat that up. So they killed him on the Mexico side? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I didn't care about him. I cared about her. Like, stupid motherfucker, man. So the cross-border movement of people and drugs is 24-7. Around the clock. Everybody knows somebody that's in on it. Yeah. Dude, look, you could get a coordinates and, like, okay, if it's drugs, I'm going to tell you to go buy me backpacks, right? You're going to take the reflectors off every backpack except one. You're going to put them all piled up, but that one needs to face the fucking road my guys are driving up to. Bro, I've done it one time and grabbed, like, what was needed. But literally, I looked, like, not even 20 yards away, and you—like, there's another—like, people are doing it everywhere. Longitude or latitude, man, you could honk the horn. Be careful. Be careful where you honk the horn, because it'd be 15 people pumped out. I'm dead serious. I don't care who says it. I broke the record for most people in a Camry. Dig it. not to take to San Antonio, but to get housed. I booked the record I'm telling you I had four people in the front I had dude nine people walked out it was crazy nine people got out of this Camry it was ridiculous how many it sounds like a bad joke how many Mexicans can you fit in a Camry nine motherfuckers man yeah without the trunk that's why they're so small yeah they evolved well and they're malnourished down there it's kind of sad and they've been they've been traveling these people you're picking up exhausted traveling for weeks dude I had a lady holding her daughter's hand and when they jumped in the car they prayed the whole way to us to get housed but it's that bro for them it means that much okay so I want to talk about how you you got introduced to this people smuggling this human smuggling how long after you graduated high school did you start getting back into the 2017 is probably when I went down there and first did that I did try to do that again in 2021 one when I got out but I instantly they knew me yeah I could yeah they I got pulled over pretty quick and asked to leave you were too hot because it's a small town you got the same guys working there been working there like they're not stupid bro these guys got a good fucking memory their job is to be at the checkpoints and know what's the town Eagle Pass okay yeah so I've been to a couple places so it's right across the river from Pedro Piedras Negras yes and that was one of the main border crossings under Biden that they were showing that they were just yeah just literally just gushes of people coming over thousands of people every week well they also picked the place least populated I think they set it all up you pick the place least populated why because you can make look like the most immigrants are coming across because there's more coming across in that town than people are in that town right yeah I don't think you picked McAllen because you have 1.5 million people there bro don't don't fuck with the money right you know you got all those trucks coming through right don't show it in El Paso you got all those trucks coming through this episode is sponsored by BetterHelp you guys have heard me talk about BetterHelp for a long time but we haven't really covered how much people love this service when they use it you can check it out for yourself at betterhelp.com slash reviews to see amazing customer reviews in real time the reviews are updated every day with hundreds of people sharing how helpful it's been for them please visit betterhelp.com slash reviews to see for yourself BetterHelp has an average live therapy session rating of 4.9 out of 5 based on over 1.7 million client session reviews I am one of those client sessions okay I go every week to a therapist that I met myself on BetterHelp years before they were a sponsor of this podcast the feedback from people who have actually used the service speaks for itself more than 6 million people have used BetterHelp globally their therapists have at least 3 years and 1,000 hours of hands-on experience plus all the required education training and certifications getting started is simple answer a few questions get matched with a therapist based on your needs and switch anytime if it's not the right fit see the reviews see what stands out and see if BetterHelp is right for you visit betterhelp.com slash connect that's B-E-T-T-E-R H-E-L-P dot com slash connect okay so you're working you're trying to keep a you know a legitimate job and it's just not working it's just not working out yeah and then I start selling and doing that and it's like well you know you get paid when you're done right so you're did you go back to working for the organization that you did in high school or did you just break out on your own he gave me he I put I asked him for a favor because I always did good business with him and you know we had an understanding so I did ask him for a favor years later and that's how I got back in he was like I could introduce you to somebody you know you'll go down to somewhere near like San Antonio and you'll meet someone and go from there and yeah I met a 45 year old 50 year old lady you know she was nice but yeah she gave me a phone and I got a call the next day but literally I stayed out there because I knew I was going to get a call right yeah then I got introduced to a guy and he's like we do this and you know I meet his guy at the mall in Eagle Pass and that's it I'm you know I'm put at one of the houses and yeah so sometimes you get a call hey we got 10 people and you're going to get longitude and lagitude you don't go to fucking McDonald's go honk couple people will come out you're going to house them you're going to keep them in the house okay so so they give you coordinates yeah about where to go yes so literally they don't even say go to they don't give you a street address they don't give you don't go to the Dairy Queen go to go to this longitude and latitude and then just honk your horn yeah six seven people will come out that's serious like jump out of the bushes yeah yeah dude you see it's real where they show you like men in black where you see nothing and people pop out that's real yeah I'll pull up to a spot and it'll be a fence it's someone's private property sometimes right you can't see a fucking thing you honk the horn yeah six seven sometimes two or three but yeah the people come out and then you take them to the safe house yeah then there'll be a couple sometimes it's the one you're going to but hey sometimes you get a call from a spotter hey there's you know a cop here cop here go to the other one and it'll be a hotel sometimes it's another house but yeah it'll they are it's a small town and they're everyone's doing it yeah literally everybody and they must have lookouts everywhere all over the place everywhere yeah yeah just like just like in Mexico everywhere everywhere you go there's an alcohol a puntero everybody's got eyes on the cops you can't dude they want to know the cops are going they know where you're going they know you've been caught yeah very organized even on this side like they're yeah wow so and it's it's a mix of groups right like like factions it's yeah different factions and essentially you were saying like they on the other side of the border they pay a tax to the cartel yeah and what are they paying that tax for I mean obviously to avoid violence and murder but is it because they have the police paid like they're the ones who deal with the the corruption I think it's more because they allow you to use their their turf like that's their turf bro like they don't hold that for a long time they could tell you to fuck off and you're going to right it's really them you want people to cross they'll let it happen if they don't want people to cross not one person would move they and their strongholds they are in charge like in charge like yeah I know that they had a stash house I'm not supposed to say that like I know even when we're there I'm not supposed to know what it is I'm waiting outside but yeah there are police parked like two miles down the road they know what this is there was a shock to me bro and he's like dude it's not it's different they're paid yeah like yeah or they're told like fuck off you know I mean I imagine one of these guys could openly go piss on their cop car but what you would do like it'd probably just be like that it's it's different man they're not you have you have some very egotistical people on a lot of stuff making choices and they're in charge and yeah okay so you begin with this smuggling organization how much do you get paid? 200 a day to just sit in the house you know that's I mean really you're not you could you could call it guarding people but no one's trying to leave everyone's trying to get to San Antonio and then you're typically that's where it starts to become easier to not get caught at all right so these are the people after they they cross they cross the line the border then they get housed right and then we're waiting for you know the heat where's how many cops are out you know what's going on like sometimes there's cops everywhere sometimes there's not yeah right then you have the second checkpoint right and that's where that's where you gotta get them through is the second checkpoint or help get them to so they can move across and after they get across they're basically free and clear if they can get to San Antonio yeah when you get there it's really hard to just I mean you know people are dropping them off everywhere right out there how many people do you think were part of this organization from the lookouts to the bosses I mean it seems like a massive logistical you got half a million people it's fucking crazy but soldiers you know crash dummies you know people doing human smuggling for you everything yeah you got half a million people easy what's a crash dummy oh man you'll I mean you can get them to do anything for cheap you know anything yeah right right it's like in prison they're usually crackheads or something yeah give you a sheet of tune bro you know you want a couple sticks yeah go smash that dude in the shower for him it was like 50 bucks and the dudes will do it right okay so you garden people in a house how did it evolve how'd you get deeper well I had helped that guy I guess you could say I was capable with a pistol I was okay so yeah they asked to just help with the you know with other things maybe going to collect a little money but really you could say most of the time these were people that were in default and were going to be a problem so really you're not you know sometimes you're you got you know you go there with the intent of having to whoop this dude's ass or do something but yeah it it turned from that to like you know do you want to like take care of other things for them like like helping with people that are problems and you know I a gentleman explained the advantages I'd have you know not looking like everybody else obviously sometimes that'd be beneficial and so sometimes they knew that they could use my services for that and yeah I would do that and that would that'd be $10,000 a head yeah and that was on this side no no that's over there that's in Mexico that's doing more intense stuff with them if you're referring to people it's going to go to about three to five hundred a head based off of what's going on I meant to to clean somebody up oh yeah 10,000 yeah okay and that's this side no that's that's that's in mexico yeah yeah i never do that over here that's wild you can't beat them people over here no you can't no they'll get your blood they'll they'll they'll get you they'll get a camera they'll get the satellite bro don't fuck with these dudes over here yeah it's always wild to me you know people talk how violent it is at the border but it's really when you go to a place like eagle pass it's super chill because everybody's there's so much money on the line everything's in control right they're really in control cartels are professionals at controlling chaos because in their strongholds if you can't move if if meth ain't going good for the gulf cartel you ain't smoking meth in their stronghold it'll whoop your ass that's disrespectful so didn't they ban meth from one of those border towns because they were on the other side uh because i heard they were trying to move coke and so they were trying to basically i heard a different cartel i think it was seen a lower cjng they were trying to take over either reynosa or one of those plazas with meth and so what the cartel did was they said if you we catch you smoking meth we're gonna kill you so guys have told me that can't confirm that because i never used and i'm not really trying to like buy anything over there over there it's to do a job go home it's all it's you're not staying even after like you're not even welcome to stay after it's you're there do we gotta get you the fuck home okay and how would you enter mexico when you had a job would you would they would they bring you over like it was a migrant or would you just drive like a migrant i'm walking over i'm walking over with someone though they're never gonna sit by myself they'll always be a coyote right someone who knows what they're doing and knows we're walking so yeah you're good that's an easy walk just keep a gallon jug and then i keep called the addy pack under my shoe the addy pack is if you have something happen because johnny me and you get in a rob a bank right you get shot in the leg well johnny i only got to get you 10 feet to the car bro we good shut the fuck up you ain't gonna die but bro you roll your ankle out there while we're walking and we're having to come back across and be hot what you want you want me to do it you want an extra clip what do you want to do because if they grab you the police are not you ain't going to jail bro he's gonna fuck you up they're gonna torture you i don't know what they're gonna do to you but like you want to be that person so yeah even rolling your ankles whole nother element when you're crossing like bro you get hurt i might cry how far are we from where we need to go bro because you can't slow us down like right so what is an addy pack oh that's where you keep five adderall right here and boy you you swig that down and uh you're gonna drink less water so you got your jug on you that's gonna save you water and you are going to move wow yeah go and take the addy pack take the whole thing how you say you could walk across from that area in south texas into mexico i thought the rio grande was there with the river yeah yeah we're going across okay so then how would they move you across so kind of like how i told you they have spots they have paramilitaries they have spots where you can cross like you can move it's not too hard to move but that's why again go with the coyote yeah so it's shallow like you can almost walk across yeah you have you have certain places again go with the coyote do not do not try to go out there by yourself bro because like you go somewhere with the current you ain't that ain't happening that's not happening so they so you would get contracted for a job and they would say okay did you get paid up front yes i'm not going across without that yes yeah only because like what am i doing when i get caught i don't have anything like i'm fucked money comes first absolutely y'all could not pay me i could get captured i'm not getting that money no like money comes first but there's always a timeline it's two weeks that's what i tell them two weeks i'm gonna watch i'm gonna do i need to but two weeks and they obviously have the target and where do they give you the location or when you get there do you have to come i'm gonna know a place where he's gonna be at a certain time and you gotta you know hey he's gonna be here for two hours monday you gotta be there one of those days and that's how you start from there watch you know watch where he goes watch who he's with right just see your best spot to get him and get your getaway time and you would make it out of mexico the same day after the job not all the time no no uh the longest i had to stay was three days but i stayed in a hotel and they brought me food i mean i have to go nowhere right i just stayed in there smoked cigarettes you're in mexico and you're in one of the hottest parts of mexico how do you as a as a gringo as a white boy how how do you stock your target without standing out the perfect lunch combo that first bite of your favorite sub followed by ice cold pepsi add a couple of friends and now that's next level suddenly the laughs get louder the stories keep flowing and the food tastes better because pepsi brings out more flavor more fun and more of the moment food deserves pepsi grab a pepsi zero sugar today just just this bro because like it's a level look it's a level four they right they say because there are shootouts there will be random barricades that come up you might have to pay a tax if you're they don't know you but i'm i'm there to do certain things i'm going to be put in a certain area and i'm probably not going to have a lot of issues when i'm going to the day i'm going to do it as far as walking around and moving though i'm just like everybody else i mean there's tourists there's not a lot most of them are locals so they literally live across the way and have family but you literally you they got an heb there they got you know they you know you just blend in right what's harder is like when he goes into like when certain people go to like their trap i don't try to follow too far into a neighborhood that's where but we're in the city no like we're at the hdb bro i got you i'm i'm i'm grabbing some stuff for tortas bro like you know so you're gonna try to find him when he comes out of his barrio his his hood well i'm gonna find him the best spot i can to give me the best getaway time that's that's what i'm looking for getaway time how about that i'm gonna find him the best spot i can to give me the best getaway time how fast can i drive away after do you think that whoever's contracting you do you think they they have local cops paid off so then it allows you to get away yeah but again the time i was there for four days it's just sometimes there's unusual circumstances maybe something else was going on too and it set something off i really don't know i'm not gonna watch the news i learned don't watch the news there just smoke cigarettes hang out dead serious smoke cigarettes go to sleep do they outfit you with a gun when you get over there do you bring your own i the first couple of times uh i i was embarrassing but i really just asked coyote like you know he's closer there i don't have to drive all the way with the gun but yeah i prefer a glock 9 or a nine millimeter beretta but no once i knew them a little bit no i'd always bring my own gun and i wouldn't bring you know you're throwing it away but i always wanted to give me a glock 9 or give me a nine millimeter beretta that's it i want something really fast and really light i don't care if it's plastic man what if i could say that ac was a gun i don't care if it's plastic i don't care if it's plastic i don't care if it's a gun does the man's body i don't people say it's plastic glock 9 is fast i can i can move uh if i'm in a situation i feel like i need to be more accurate i may have to hit from a little farther i need a nine you know i need the beretta just because it's metal it's recoil is a little little better but that that's all i ever used i never tried to use anything else because that was the only thing i was comfortable with and in that moment do what you're comfortable with i don't care if it's a 44 magnum if you think you can hit that's what you're comfortable with use it but feels good with your hand and then how do you how do you ditch that throw it away i mean really like when you're at the rio grande i mean i could leave it in my bag and and you know i could tell homeboy to dump it for me the coyote dump is somewhere like we're bro you dump that gun out there when once we start traveling out there good luck you find all kinds of guns i would love to be a scuba diver to just go to the bottom of that river oh dude some of those bricks that are sealed like johnny is this good hey man try you find so much shit down there man i wonder if there's a whole pallet just like saran wrapped ready to go once we're all gone as a species they'll dig it up like the dinosaurs they'll be like you mean people fought over this stuff right right but we forget man uh there are people doing life sentences for tobacco you know like from a long time ago yeah everything at some point is you know so how did you square this like the first time you did it how did you feel like you would you had gone from being this mormon kid who was maybe just a little social but but a good guy a kid to to now this this dude that did something that you can't take back like the same way that losetas made soldiers young they i would already seen violence like i'd already they'd at least known i'd had seen violence like after that as long as that dude vouched i was good with the pistol that was okay um do you think it was the guy getting chainsawed to death in front of you do you think that's what first like i think that numbed me i think i made it where like like man like that is brutal like i'm trying to be respectful like you're my target i'm not trying to hit nobody else bro i'm watching you for a reason i don't need a fucking drum on my thing i'm watching you let's be respectful i'm gonna get four in you man i'm sorry all right i'm gonna try not to aim for the face i want you to be sent off right but like i'm trying to watch you to to do that properly like quit being fucking like don't be malicious as shit get the job done get the fuck out man why do you think they contracted you i mean in mexico you get away lots of people there yeah why do they need you to come from the north well you can never ask that question but i could only come up with two circumstances if i get caught there's no repercussions for you i don't know who you are i never actually met you and then other than that because you're going after someone that you don't have permission to oh so you think you might have been hitting somebody that could be your homeboy you want to spot it but it's not my business but yeah why did y'all hire me but i sat for a couple years and that really is only two things i could come up with other than that i'm not trying to ask i want to but like man let's see you know what those people are better just do your job go home yeah and so and then you'd go meet the same Coyote to take you back across the river, or would it be something different? So I know a couple, but, yeah, for particular jobs, it's their guy. So, yeah, it's someone either I know or I've known before he has a reputation. I knew a few guys from Eagle Pass and McAllen, but definitely would not. I don't, you know, you're like with the faction. You're not like a, I can't ask you to do that with me. I can actually be on this side and take me over there, but I'm not going over there with that permission. So, again, it's always going to be back to their guy. And it may be a different guy, but it's always their people. They need you to get back. They don't want me to get caught. That's the whole point. That's where I was kind of like, that's why y'all are doing it like that. You know most of the time you're sending me someone you ain't got permission to put hands on. Right. Why would you want me back? Right, right. And if they had permission, they wouldn't need you. The bosses would green light it. Dude, they have, dude, there are dudes out there that make, dude, they have kids out there that make your favorite rapper look pussy. Like, would they talk about hats? And let's be honest here. Okay, let's be honest here. You're a rapper. You done got a couple hats, but you ordered the other 15 while you're rapping. And like, no, I know kids that are, I don't know them, but they'll tell me about children that are like. Murders. For real. Yeah. Like, it's normal. Like, it's. It is. It's sad. And they wear hats like you. Yeah, yeah. If you, if you pull it down a little more, bro, that's the narco look right there. Yep. That's how I be walking when we go around. Yeah. Keep it low. Now, did you worry about surveillance? Because they do have a lot of surveillance, even in Mexican cities. Yeah, but I was never in an area where you're having a big battle. Like, you're not in a. Yeah, right. You're in control here. But this time, I wasn't having problems. And you never got your biometrics taken. Like, you never went through an official Mexican crossing. No. There you go. Wow. So, as you start doing this, do you still work on the smuggling side? No. Okay, so you gave up the smuggling shit. Because I don't want to take that risk. You know, and sure, could I work my way up to where I'm moving people? Yeah, but all these guys are the same. You guys come. You do too much coke. Dude, I'll say these guys make five grand. First thing they do, go to the mall, has $1,000 of Versace. You just spent 20% of what you risked for a pair of glasses. Bro, I can't be around people like that. These guys over here are more professional, sophisticated. And you're trying to get me paid, in and out. I like that. That was fast moving. Today's episode is brought to you by my favorite company in the whole wide world, good friends of mine over at Mood. Mood is making federally compliant, hemp-derived cannabis accessible, affordable, and convenient. 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The smooth, chill, and perfect, perfect for winding down at the end of a long day. I don't even have to take magnesium before bed anymore. I just take one of Mood's Sleepy Time gummies, and I'm out, and there's no grogginess the next morning. Their Epic Euphoria gummies are great when you just need a mood reset. And the flour, of course, comes from the small USA farms with unique profiles, so you can pick what fits your moment. Listeners get 20% off your entire first purchase. 20% off. Head to mood.com and use code CONNECT at checkout. That's Mood, M-O-O-D, dot com with promo code CONNECT for 20% off your first order. You guys, this is the only place that you should be getting your federally legal cannabinoids from. They are the longest sponsor of the show, and I love them. CONNECT is the promo code for 20% off at mood.com. Thank you, Mood. So, how did you not become a drug addict? Because we've met a lot of killers in Mexico, you know, through interviews and doing this show, and every one of them is, they have to numb themselves. Yeah. From the stuff that they've done just to live with themselves. How did you not get addicted? I did, but I was a drug dealer, so, like, I was more of a binge addict. Like, you could, me and you could get an ounce of Coke, I'll run through it. I don't need it the next day, but the next day it's a couple Adderall to keep up because I'm tired. You know, it's, I'm going to the bar and realizing, like, I have so much adrenaline all the time now. I'm, I mean, where she worked, I could get three tequilas in a row. Doubles. Right. You're fine. Like, but yeah, it was really, like, I realized, it took a long time to realize, like, that's not a normal everyday routine. Because then you start hanging out with your friends, your normal friends, and you realize, like, wow, I can't, this has been a three-hour conversation. There's nothing I could jump in on. I don't know about that show. Yep, missed that thing. Oh, my God, I don't even know that rapper. I didn't know. Yeah, and it's like that. That's how deep you were. Yeah, where I don't, I can't even have normal conversations with my friends. So you had your real, you had your normal friends still? At the time, yeah. I never involved them. I never thought that was cool. I never told them. I never, like, put them on a lick with me. Yeah, they were just normal people, like. Mormons or high school friends? No, best friends were Mormon. I met some good people that were Mormon. I still talk to some of those today, but no, high school friends. Right, right. Who are now, like, working jobs and had good lives. Yeah, very good lives, yeah. Would you go to your dad's house for, like, Saturday dinner? Or when do the Mormons do their shit, Saturday or Sunday? Oh, family home evening is Monday. You, like, do a thing. Family. So, like, but every night with my dad, we had to eat dinner together at his house. Yeah. But when I was, okay, so you're talking about when I was in Mexico? I didn't see them. I didn't talk to anybody the whole time. When it got that real, I didn't talk to nobody. When I got arrested, I didn't tell my parents. I bailed out. Like, my friend spotted me the money. I paid him back. I fought my case. I'd already signed for time, and my dad's a real estate attorney. So he had actually helped this guy get this property I was living on, and that's how he found me. He came to me. I was about to go to prison. I didn't see nobody. I didn't see anybody. I didn't talk to anybody. When it got that real, I was like, nah, man. This is, like, some real motherfuckers right here. Yeah. Like, this is crazy. These people are, I've just never seen, like, it's so, they're nice people, but it's like you have to be genetically, you have to be instilled to be violent, bro. And sometimes just from what you see, it's not even like you're a monster. It's like you was a product of your environment. It's bad. I didn't want to ever see people near that that I knew. What was the worst thing you saw, not that you participated in, but that you saw just in the course of being around, being that deep within the cartel? They kept a guy alive for four days. I was there to pick up his body, but they blow-torched his nuts. They blow-torched the bottom of his feet. His tongue was out. He had his fingernails missing and a couple of these little nubs like that. I guess they was trying to make it go as long as they could. But when I went and grabbed him, too, the fucked up part is they had, like, banana bags. Like, they're trying to keep him alive, too. I don't know what he did, but, yeah, we went and picked him up. And that was on the Mexico side? Yeah, yeah, we picked him up. Yeah, like, we picked him, like, yeah. Like, I'm grabbing little nubs and shit, yeah. And then disposed of him? I asked about that, like, because that was the first time I dumped something for him. I actually asked the dude, like, how they do that. I got the guy to translate, but, bro, they just heat up biodiesel. Like, they don't use, like, sulfuric acid or, like, whatever you see on Ozark. He's like, no, we just, you shred them down to bones and throw them out there. No one's going to find them. Wow. That's how he, that's how it's explained. Wow. And you never learned Spanish? A little bit, but, no, because when you're at the border, there's so many different people from so many different parts of Mexico. It's like, you say perico, and they're like, nah, we say it like this. And I got tired of that. Every time I'm corrected with the grammar, like, no, here we say it like this. I'm like, guys, guys, guys, last time it was a Honduran. Today, it's this guy from Astro Reynosa. I can't keep up, people. I know. Yeah. It drives me nuts. Yeah, it's a lot, yeah. The slang is just crazy. But you know what I'm saying, though. Perico. I'm talking about cocaína. Yeah, yeah, yeah, powder. What's the matter with you? Right. So how did you not get involved in drug running? Like, if you're this deep? I've been asked twice. I'd done it to help, you know, somebody. But, again, like, someone on this side, like, it was just a faction. It was just like a guy, like, hey, I run some people. Can you help me get coke? I did it for them twice. Paid me good. Paid me 2,500 bucks. Right. Four hours of my time, both times. It was cool. Had it like how I liked it, bro. I was like, I want to get paid. I want to go. I don't want to stay with all your dudes, drinking and smoking weed, whatever the fuck they're doing down here. Right. Like, talking about trapping. Dude, there's 5,000 people here. What are you going to trap? What are you going to, like, you have to get permission to even do that. It's like, bro, what are y'all doing? Like, no, pay me. I want to go. So when you're, you mainly operated in Eagle Pass when you were down there, right? That was like on your Texas hub. That was the first time I got introduced. I'd been there a couple times, yeah. Were you also in McAllen? Yes. Okay. And Hildago. And Hildago, Texas. The people there operating. Even on the American side, have to have permission from the Mexico side? Don't know from McAllen. I knew closer my connects, like, if I needed little things, a weapon or something last minute, I'm calling someone in Eagle Pass. That's just where I knew people where I got started. I could always go down there and know somebody. McAllen, I had talked to too many dudes. Like, if I'm hanging out, they got a hotel for me. I'm going to get the call. I'm going to cross with the coyote, meet them somewhere. We're going to go together. Like, I'm not meeting too many people. Yeah. Yeah. Right. That makes sense. That makes sense. The stories of them. Yeah. uh, smuggling people across. You said they would, they would throw people out to get caught. They will sacrifice just like they will with drugs. We could all be going in with five keys and, and one of us is going down. It's just, they'll, they'll do that with runners like they will. But typically that's the crash dummy. For instance, we had a guy and we knew we were going to do it after three runs with them. Why? Because it's, uh, you came to a town, 5,000 people when you should have gone to a town with a million because you are covered in fucking tattoos. You are covered in fucking like, and we knew bro, he's like, we're not going to do it, but yeah, you're, you're gonna, one of these loads, you're going to get caught and, and they're not going to even mention you. And we're going to know, yeah, they, you were the, sorry, buddy. And he doesn't know he's about to be a crash dummy. Yeah, no, no. So they've, they phone it in to the, and they were like, Hey, the guy covered in tattoos, he's got work in the lining of the car. I've never seen it, but yeah, that's what they, that's what they do. And then they pass fucking as many cars as they can. Well, you also get the crash dummy for this reason. What are you on bro? Cause I love it. That's what we want to know. What are you on? Cause like when you, how are you going to react when they get you? Are you going to burn off? Oh my God, bro. That's beautiful. Thank you. Cause they're going to follow you. How are you going to react when they catch you? The person they called on. If you're like a meth head, are you going to burn off? We want that. We want 20 cops to follow you. That's good. Dude, I want, dude, are you scratching a fentanyl? Man, bro, I'll tell you what, don't even think about it, bro. I'll give you this address. Drive straight there. Drive through. Like, are you going to react crazy? We want you to, cause they're going to follow you. And if not, well, then you just got popped. I mean, hopefully the other two cars still make it through cause they're going to do it tomorrow too. And the next day and the next day. So there's an endless amount of people that want to get involved. Yeah. Did you know anybody like you, like white guys or, or normal, maybe not even necessarily white, but normal kind of middle-class people from Houston that either got involved in smuggling, drugs, wet work, like, like, I knew a guy that from Montgomery County that tried, and I actually had to call him his brother before this interview, but yeah, I told him not to. When he went to Eagle Pass and was doing it, he had to get asked to leave. Cause I was like, bro, this isn't like, like he's at a hotel and he's telling me like the first time I heard him out there and I called him that he had a rival with the guy. And he's, he's, he's got this little pistol when I drive down there, that's maybe got six shots in it. Dude, these guys are going to fuck you up. Like, this isn't, I called his brother. He went back and stayed away. But other than that, I didn't know anyone personally from Houston or that, that I knew. And then I met them down there. No. Yeah. Did your parents wonder where you were? What did you tell your parents when you were just in this black hole? I didn't talk to nobody. Disappeared. You just got rid of your phone and? Disappeared. Do you think that's the only way to do it? Yeah. To avoid your family, but also the cops? Yeah. You kind of have to disappear, right? That and just desensitize, yourself to love. Like, don't be loved, bro. Like, nothing's personal. Like, I love some of those guys down there because of the bond. But in my head, I also knew, bro, if you're a problem, I'm going home. I hope it's never that situation in my head with any of these dudes. I'm going home. So yeah, like staying away from my family and not having love. Like, yeah, you, you, you got to train yourself. Like, don't, if you're going to do it, do it. Don't fucking involve them people. Don't be, don't get all messed out in the game. Go down there and then go see your people. Fuck. Or go rob someone, go see your people. Fuck you doing? What are you going? You want to be a street dude? Go on the street. Like, you know, that's some, and especially when you get to that level, don't fuck around. These dudes will follow you. You can't hide from these people. They're international. Look, when Elon Musk goes up to space, they going to be in space. Is what it's like. You're not stopping them. You know, they go to another, you go to another galaxy, they'll be there too. Don't worry about it. They're so motivated. Yeah. Like they're, you know, most people are like, oh, if I got to do all this to be involved in crime, I'm not even going to do it, bro. I'm just going to get a job. These guys, like, they're relentless. Is it poverty? Is it power? What drives them to keep them doing this? You know? I mean, I would ask the Mexican government that, like. Well, the fear of poverty for sure. Right. It's still very poor in Mexico. So it's like people, yeah, I'm going to risk it all. They become desperate. But yeah, I just. Like, how are you not out of, you trade, you were with our number one trader is Mexico. Where the fuck y'all money? Take care of your people. You wonder where you lost the love of the people when Pablo could build a subdivision and you couldn't. Like, bro, because these dudes buy the love. Like, y'all wasn't out dropping off food during COVID. What did these dudes do? They dropped off food. And then what are they going to do? And the sad thing is, is this pretty funny? Because their tactic is very simple. Our people are going to be happy as long as we profit. Other than that, if we don't profit, I don't care if there's a fucking war going on here. We ain't telling nobody. We ain't going to knock on, hey, y'all get out of here, there's war. Like, people are going to be innocent. Y'all are the government. How are y'all not like, take care of your people first? They're going to keep doing that. They're broke, they're poor, there's people hungry out there. Like, goddamn. Did you hear about the organization having people hit on this side? Like, sending people up to Houston or? Oh yeah, the people will travel. So they will do that? They will travel. Yeah. There's no, yeah. Because it's a, it's a, it's principle. I was talking about this with Matt Cox the other day. Actually, you know, we do a murder podcast now. I love, yeah. Go check out The Murder Man. See, that's a little subtle little plug right there. Okay. We were saying the only way to get away with a hit now is to send somebody internationally to smuggle them over, have them do the job, and then go back. Like, they cannot pass any kind of checkpoints. They cannot have any kind of. Where y'all, wait, okay. Matthew Cox has a podcast. Where do y'all do this podcast? Oh, I mean, we do it, you know, I don't want to go into all that, but we basically kind of what you did for them. Yeah. Being smuggled across, not passing through any, any kind of government checkpoints, not having any connection digitally to entering the country and no, basically no digital footprint, no text messages on phones that can be pinged. No, these are burners. No, I don't go back with the burner. No. Yeah. You dump it. What does a burner look like in 2017, 2018? Like an Android, uh, uh, like a, a Samsung talk Android that you get at Walmart. That's a better way. Right. And then the person that buys the phone, do they supply you with the phone when you get over there? Uh, eventually I bought phones because I would, I, I, I would bring it and let the guy do whatever. It didn't take a blog, do whatever he's doing, but no, most of the time they have a phone for me, but I came up on a bunch of phones on a bunch of these one time. Like a guy had stolen them. I bought like a hundred. Right. He sold them to a $5 pop. Yeah. So I literally bought a hundred of these one time, not a joke because I was like, well, man, I've had to use, like, I've had to use, like 80 of these in a month. I mean, why not? Why not? What's wrong with having like all of them already at my house. Now all I got to do is buy the prepaid cards and cash. I go send people to do that for me. Right. And go get that prepaid card. Right. Cause you can't be on camera buying any of that. You can't buy shit with cars, bro. Do not. No, no, no. You can't even buy shit with cash though, because that could still be traced to you. If you, if they somehow get the number that's connected to a body, they can ping all the way to where it was purchased. And if they have your dumb face on camera, it's game over. Yeah. Except in the US they would. They don't got time for that over there. No, no, no. It's not going to happen over there, but I'm saying they could. No. Yeah. Here it would be a problem, but I try to just kind of like how I saw them do it. I'm going to do it like, okay, well, I'm going to get the phone, but whoever knows how to do that, like make it however, I'm not trying to look that up on YouTube. I'll, I'll let someone do that. Yeah. Don't look it up. But the, the reason I did that is for this reason, there was one thing that I could get on that phone, uh, that I knew I could keep, which was, I didn't like that. I didn't have the, uh, the translate on those. The ones that they gave me had no translator. I liked when I bought those. Cause even when he did whatever, I had the Google translate without my shit having to be on there. Cause bro, I didn't know a lot of Spanish. You kind of do need that sometimes. And when you're handing me a phone and I can't bring mine, it kind of. Would you have a picture of the target? Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Obviously. Right. Um, Oh, it was a good picture. Was there any time that you backed out? Yeah. Yeah. But that was, that was because, that was because of work with the weed plug. I was helping him with something. I already had a prior arrangement, but other than that, most of the time I was pretty active. Okay. Yeah. But there was one time I did remember having to say no, but it was just cause I was already doing something. Okay. But it's not like you would be down there. No, no, no, no, no, no. You took the money. What do you mean? We already, the money is the deadline. Clock starts. The hourglass flips. There's no choice at that. You got to get that done. There have been arrangements made again. It's like they'd always say to me. Unusual circumstances like arrangements been made. This has to get done and I'm not going to ask nothing. It ain't my business. Okay. Let's get it done. And there's no going back and giving them the money back. Oh no. I've, I've never asked that. I doubt it. I mean, yeah, but it probably blew my head off. You think they could have found you even in the U S yeah. They could have killed me anywhere. Yeah. Hmm. Wow. Yeah. It's just so present active members, bro. So no, yeah. Nowhere dude. You're everywhere. Did you think about, did you have a contingency plan if you did get picked up by the cops? In Mexico? Like to die? No, no. When I saw that guy get chained, saw an app, die. I, who gives a fuck? I'm here. What are you going to do? What? Shoot a cop here? I mean, no disrespect. This is adult law enforcement, but y'all aren't going to take me to jail and y'all may portray me as a monster when I, whenever, if I had to do that, but like y'all would take and torture me if I didn't try to shoot out with you. So you would, you would shoot it out with them to try to get away. I mean, it's not, it sounds crazy in the moment. What am I going to do? I don't have my ID. I did not cross legally. You find out who I'm with. I'm going to be in a Mexican jail. Anyways, I'm dead. I don't know if I'm going to get protected by them. We need to discuss that. I'm not risking that. Like, no, uh, whatever it is let's do it cause I'm not I can't yeah no I don't this is the better alternative to whatever else y'all trying to do might as well just die quick man did you say your prayers before you did it no cause you shouldn't pray to God when you do evil stuff like I don't believe in that and I did see guys do the Santa Martha thing but like I'm not gonna do that it's no disrespect you know she's just the queen of the underworld but like the perfect lunch combo that first bite of your favorite sub followed by ice cold Pepsi add a couple of friends and now that's next level suddenly the laughs get louder the stories keep flowing and the food tastes better because Pepsi brings out more flavor more fun and more of the moment food deserves Pepsi grab a Pepsi zero sugar today yeah so you saw guys praying to the Santa Muerte no I saw people do the tributes like they would buy stuff so I've walked to a few houses and they've had some pretty interesting tributes I saw one dude he said it was real gold I don't know if it was as heavy as fuck but that was the coolest thing I saw it was a statue it was like this big but I swear to God it weighed like 10 pounds but it was cool I don't know if it was all gold it looked like it but that was the craziest thing I ever saw wow yeah what was the craziest like trap house in Mexico that you saw with like the most hardware the most crazy dudes no I mean it's not like I wouldn't go to the trap houses I would have a reason right not there to you know I don't even need to go there to like get like to score because I'm not using so no just there do your job go home but you'd be you'd have safe houses usually right well I have places where they're housing me but it's like a hotel I was never like in a house yeah never in a house never in again that would probably be something they utilize for someone else there like put me in a hotel like because you probably own the motel I mean so I cannot believe you would go from a hit to a motel a hotel and then you'd just be chilling well you gotta wait I mean well you have your getaway time to get away but yeah I could be I could be 20 minutes away from there I could be 30 minutes away from there but you gotta get your car you gotta dump that car you get another car I already typically have that set up as long as the plan goes good and are you responsible for that set up or is that is it all from A to B set up for you the car the car they'll give me but I'm never taking what they give me I had someone that could help me get a car because they wouldn't always give me the best vehicle like one time I basically saved more time having a Ford pickup instead of a car I tried to get over this I had an idea and it worked but I needed a truck to get over this ramp like this little concrete block and if I used a car it wasn't gonna happen that was the first time I looked for someone else to get me a truck because I was like dude this would save me five minutes if I could just drive over this curve get out of this little spot right here but no they would leave cars but it's not like you get to pick and I'd prefer to know what I have and what my extra vehicle is because I've had some some shit boxes like where it's like hey dude I don't even know like this thing could smoke out when I get to the fucking before I get to the border and I gotta walk I'm not doing that yeah but yeah it's up to you you can always like take your extra precautions but the only thing they guaranteed me was a coyote and if I needed a car but I'd always have the second car and eventually I paid just to someone to steal the first car cost you a hundred bucks in Mexico bro to get a car so we'll lift a car for you for a hundred bucks it's a huge car theft is a huge business in Mexico there are so many cars that are like American made over it's crazy I'll probably tell my cousin hey man your BMW is over here somewhere for sure yeah yeah have you seen the videos of uh they're actually stealing cars on this side now and then they're just dramming them straight through the checkpoints and taking them to Mexico and then they're gone I knew a guy that would steal them but he would use this little thing to steal scat packs that's really what he'd take but he always took them to Mexico any cars he stole he'd take them to Mexico really yeah so that still goes on yeah yeah he actually was I saw him at Holiday Unit in TDC when I was he was about to go home and I was about to get in yeah that was weird seeing him but yeah he would always steal cars and he said he'd always take them to the border wow yeah after you know obviously the coyote that's taking you over there and then where you're where you're staying always the hotel it's always gonna be the same place and is it gonna be is it gonna be in the city or is it gonna be it's gonna be in the city okay it's gonna be in the city yeah nowhere out near the farther you are to the outskirts of Reynosa there's a lot of small little towns right you don't want to because everybody knows everyone that's where it gets really dangerous that's where it gets rough because yeah that's where you can do ambushes that's where you can hit vehicles that's where lots of crazy stuff happens like that's where I hear guys have told me where they're like in real gunfights like they have rifles like if you're hitting a big enough load they'll pull up with the big old thing I've never seen one but they'll have a big old thing turret and yeah when it's war bro everybody's going to war and your jobs that you did were these typically at night or during the day I always did them at night I could have done it whenever I mean but yeah at night I'm again get away time and trying to just car get another car yeah and you never used silencers no never you don't got to out there yeah and you don't want to I mean just man like you don't that even looks worse you know I look like James Bond or something you know they could take me like you know right you know they're going to torture me with professional fucking federales or something I don't want to do that right yeah that would be bad I'm just giving my pistol I don't need modifications nothing right in and out in and out if you watch a person you're going to get them you're going to know where you're getting them and it's in and out like you ain't trying to do nothing else and these were just young men a few guys were probably older well I say that now at my age yeah these are guys probably in their 20s and 30s I don't think I ever did anyone older you're not going to make it that long out there you're supposed to elevate after that you're supposed to be where I don't see you so and then they have the time that you're supposed you're going to go back and that's not really up to you it's up to whenever it's up to them yeah right whenever they the cops are off of them 100% their spotters are going to say okay yeah your coyote is ready how many coyotes do you think are just lined up on that river outside of those towns I mean there's got to be thousands that are working right or hundreds it's not it's not hard to find one it's just you do want to like make sure you make sure they're credible with someone like who they're going with like because obviously you'll probably meet whoever they work with on that side like they're you know that family or faction man you just want to know that they're good other than that be careful out there if they know what they're doing it's a smooth walk it is for the guys been doing it but no you'll have a dude that tries and walks you off a cliff literally I mean yeah like you get caught in the current yeah people still drown people drown all the time yeah I here's the thing I never had to think about that until like when I went back to Eagle Pass and realized like it's a little bit different when you they tried to again I'm going down there for a guy thinking I would help him move some people but you know like his coyote was just said some things that like I remember from a guy telling me that were like wrong and I was like definitely not going to go with you like you're going to get people killed did you the people hiring you was it the same guy no I'm always dealing with the third party and I'm never seeing the same person of course so but it would be people on the American side who would approach you because now you kind of have this reputation as a guy that's yeah go to San Antonio get the phone go to San Antonio get the phone yeah that's how it's organized it's like hey you get a call go pick up a phone in San Antonio someone wants to talk to you yeah and then once I was good calls like I'd get my phone and like I when I was good like no my call would come quick but like my first time I waited a couple hours that was the nervous three or four hours of my life and I'm just waiting to go move people right I'm there for three hours like so after a job you obviously have to ditch the burner phone but you have a main line that they can get a hold of you with I'm keeping that in my truck once I go grab the burner my vehicle in that stays at San Antonio like nothing goes like my ID doesn't go my truck doesn't go my truck keys don't go yeah I don't you don't buy anything a couple hours before don't even have a fucking receipt in your pocket like don't it's like the old days you were just existing in the world didn't have a tracking device on you cash that's it you know like it was always cash I never I never had to swipe a card so San Antonio was really like the hub the jump off point whether you were going to Eagle Pass to smuggle people or you were getting smuggled across the border to go do a job good location okay because you can blend in it's a big city you disappear that's the next place you're going to you're going to go with the most population and you were saying like that's where the migrants if they make it through the second checkpoint that's where you're going and get picked up it's really hard from that point when you get past all those checkpoints you know like Eagle Pass you're going to go 30 miles past the checkpoint you're going to pick them up and from there your odds of just cruising the rest of the way are significantly high yeah did you drop off migrants to San Antonio twice yeah I did it twice I went all the way um that was whatever it's not that big of a deal they're crazy but are you driving them in a van are they in the trunk no they're in the car like dude when you have gone so in Eagle Pass when you've gone past that 30 mile point that means that we have a mile of stretch where there's no state troopers there's no nothing and we're maybe at that point anywhere from 20 minutes to an hour from a main highway where we can blend in yeah yeah uh no like you just have them get in the car after that some guys do it the crazy way I've seen a guy have a well not I didn't see it I saw it on YouTube but a guy had a trailer with wood and you they lift up the top like this and it had like seven people in it right there's laid laid back but again he could be driving from McAllen may not have to be different circumstances but there no I'm getting them in after come on like you're the youngest you get in the front with me like you're the pretty girl you're the young cool be my girlfriend okay you're you're the youngest dude to me alright you're my cousin get in everyone else get in the back and did you have like radios no there's no spotters like with drug drug traffickers like caravans so yes they're gonna it really depends on how sober the guy is that's running this operation with people cause eventually when they start getting you know little grills in their mouth and it's fucking july all right buddy like you're about to crack it's just a matter of when uh yeah so when they're good yeah you're supposed to have a spotter in the front a spotter in the back right and the car moving through but i've seen plenty of people they start snorting shit and then they can't afford them so then they send one spotter and then they tell you they're sending spotters and there's no spotter and we're just sending the car right yeah i've seen guys do it on the phone like just play at people's lives like wow yeah it seems like all of those low-level cartel movers right whether you're drug trafficking human trafficking cicada or whatever it seems like everybody's whacked out on coke or meth i mean i did some of the white down there it's pretty awesome i mean it is we have two it's yeah it's really good coke yeah but uh it's uh it's just yeah it's it's there's a lot of people are on a lot of shit down there but don't you think it's a lot of people are on a lot of shit down there don't you think that's because they're you're living in hell yeah no it's chaos and you're living in hell and you have you need some kind of escape and i mean i'm visiting they're living that's horrible i have it so easy i don't care what i'm dealing with all the things i'm figuring out about me that are bad like they have to live down there that's unacceptable somebody fixed that yeah so how many jobs did you do between 2017 and and 2019 2020 which when you kind of got out of that life and you were got into the drug game how many jobs do you think you did 16 okay i think no that's how many you know of course you're not gonna forget that 16 and did your price go up at all no i just stayed at 10 grand yeah i'm an outsider dude i'm not here to be the guy where who's that man they did just 50 000 what no just be the same price be the same guy this is hard bro it's hard you want to get egotistical out there but don't because these dudes will fuck you up because they're not going to do it they're not going to do it they're not they've been boy you're a different kind of animal you've had to do that from young i don't care how gangster i was these have been doing this since young i am i'm undomesticated people here these dudes to me i'm domesticated and i'm i'm knowing what i know about me and i'm like yeah these guys are fucking way different so you're a square i'm a square compared to these dudes i'm pussy i'm i'm the the third string quarterback you know yeah how do you not tell anyone like did you tell anyone no it almost killed me yeah no for a long time even when i went to prison i didn't talk about that i was there for manufacturing to deliver some drugs that's what they knew i didn't tell anybody about that i'm not trying to be hot i'm not trying to have a name nowhere like this is not what i think when you hold that it kills you yeah yeah oh yeah it destroyed me i'm really recently just now addressing mental health and like i even told my my psychiatrist like you see my life like i'm on two medications i'm good now but like that's part of the reason that you're here today that you chose to talk about this because people are gonna people are gonna want to know like i look i'm gonna i'm i'm obviously everything i did i also did learn that like i'm capable of running my own business and doing my own thing and i want to make money and i want to be happy my way and what i was doing was wrong but now i'm gonna move on and do other things but i'm here to tell people stop fuck street stuff fuck street could be a gangster it's not even fun they got flock cameras now it's not even fair it's not even fair no more like it bro stop the street man because it what it does your mental health is it's not even fair it's not even fair it's not even fair no more like it bro stop the it destroys you and if not today not tomorrow it'd be 10 years from now it'll kill you it'll it'll destroy you become a different person yeah yeah it changes you like my dad they're like yeah you change you're different did you yeah i was gonna ask that so you never obviously told any of your regular high school friends no and of course not your parents but did they see that change in you like when you were yeah yeah i just came dark i can't feel stuff anymore like you got to think about emotions now that's where i'm at with life i gotta think about emotions i think about emotions now that's where i'm at with life i think about emotions now that's where i'm at with me it's hard to feel it now right so you don't feel the human energy that most people have i can't i just don't have control when like i love that girl in my heart i go to war for her but then like you know there dude there there's times where like she'll be like i love you and i say it but like i don't like i'm it's hard to feel things i always catch myself doing that too much where i'm thinking about like a feeling like how i'm supposed to feel and that's that's not normal but yeah look cold sweats every night uh uh look fun fact about that uh my my wife so i didn't i didn't know because i'd have a lot of long-term relationships but i'm waking up every night in cold sweat i didn't know she's the first girl she slept in my bed seven nights in a row and it was like yeah what the fuck is wrong with you like we mean like i know i wake up sweaty but like yeah i'll be i don't know doing the most yeah uh memory loss uh bad bad social anxiety like my forehead will sweat my hands will shake hyperventilate like hypervigilant with my hands yeah yeah it's i'm recently on medication it's been different mental health will fuck you up so y'all fuck street man y'all quit being gangster because i'm white and i was mormon i i feel like i get four stars on gta and that's just it's not fun it's terrible bro it'll kill you did you ever go back to the mormon church during this time you never went back to church no no no great people like some people i met their best people in my life but no i never went back to church right yeah right um did you ever you know this whole insane journey got started with your high school friend not really friend not a friend right he did this the uncle his uncle that puts you on driving around this heroin did he ever find out what you were doing no because we were even and at that point i had a different reputation even if you did call me like bro what do you want to do what you want to do yeah i have nothing to lose bro i'll spray the house and i'll call police after bro i will if i have to win i'm gonna win but no there's always respect with him but if he ever called me back what are you gonna say at that point i'm grown now i'm a monster you a monster i'm a monster too like what do you want to do you know which you know like but no never he never called me i never checked in on him like i think i think we did our business that's it nothing ever came back to either person so there's still mutual respect right did that guy that did the chainsawing i never talked to him again because again i never actually dealt with him you didn't know who he was yeah right for all i know the guy that i didn't know who he was he was a guy that i didn't know who he was he was a guy that i didn't know i didn't even like for instance i know for a fact that day i didn't drop him off anything so i wasn't even the guy right like that dropped it off to him but like we all had to go anyone who drove that day had to go it was principal you know yeah and that the uncle might not have even known that that was going to happen to the guy no i i i did not ask and i if even if he did he'd look like he did know he was because that's not really a black thing to do i don't like stereotypes but black guys generally they don't like doing that kind of shit no that was it gets their shoes dirty wait what that was him it was the uncle no no no you're right like they have like they do their business yeah and like that's it you know they don't do the the crazy torture that's some cartel mexican cartel shit yeah i'm not sure that you have to but that's how they do the business i mean when you see one guy doing it you're like is this what it takes to be here you're not gonna question it you're just gonna try to go up that way too yeah because when you're going up in that game how much are you really trying to change you see this dude making it you're probably gonna try to you know you'll follow that yeah it just makes you that person sometimes you don't realize it well i think we're all capable of every human being on some level is capable of heinous things the reason that in countries like the united states and europe there's criminals that are psychotic just like mexicans but the difference is their government lets them get away with it so it breeds these kind of animals and the cycle perpetuates right and to survive in that environment you do have to be the a crazy psycho killer uh so i i think politics and and the country you live in has a big part to play in that too right yeah um okay so you you start did you save this money that you were getting for all these jobs i'm always putting it back into packs okay yeah go into that just you know weed wax carts adderalls annex little cocaine uh methamphetamine and the best one was probably the oxycontin um it wasn't pharmaceutical but like it wasn't from like a you know it wasn't like a actual from a pharmacy but i went and got some tested when you go to like a leslie's pool store and you test your water well they test for like five things but those machines can test for a lot well you know we knew a guy who had a calibrated machine and he could test your drugs but here's the thing if he liked the drug you have to give him more because he's going to test some and do some that was the most expensive test i ever got i don't know if you've ever had a drug test i had to buy at least 40 oxy and i'm i don't think he needed all those to test it but as he said there was no fentanyl in it and he said if he was degraded as a regular pharmaceutical drug he was like it would be like a like a b minus generic brand which was good for me i was like bet that i had the coke the meth and the oxy i had two friends at the border they didn't want to be down there no more they started selling in san antonio and i would front them that i didn't ever take that back with me but weed wax carts i was actively selling that in my county back home oh so you had money on the street yeah but you were investing yeah yeah yeah yeah wow yeah i wanted to go to cali at some point i knew you might as well get in all get as much cash you can go right okay so you're kind of that's wild so while you're doing hits in mexico you're also building this this drug business yeah that's pretty interesting on snapchat right this is the snapchat era so you were killing it with the wax and the weed and talk about that and how it's different from what you're doing in the city yeah i mean i'm not saying that i'm not doing it but And, you know, I didn't like going out partying and stuff. I would literally go to his house, and he had a little grow, and I was like, bro, I want to learn. And I was like, I'll do one even better. How much do you spend to get your soil and get your stuff for your 20 plants you're maintaining? Oh, you know, $300 or $400, and, you know, that's for three or four months. Done. Just show me. Anytime I come over, you show me that stuff. He showed me concentrates, which was my biggest thing. It was butane wax. It was all brown, nasty. You know, you hit it on a bong. You put a little bowl, and you dab it. Really strong, tastes really gross. I would sell that, and then it graduated to gold wax. It had more flavor. It was just, you know, we call it a slab. It's on parchment paper. Then I was also dealing a little bit of weed, but wax was my highest profit margins. I mean, I was paying maybe $10 a gram, but I'm selling it for $25, and I'm flipping it like a half pound to a QP every day, busting that down. Just in little grams? Just in wax, yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, so you're fucking busy. Yeah, I kept it very, again, I think the PTSD, it made me so wired. I just was very, very active, yeah. My plug in Houston loved me just like people like me at the border. I was effective. I took my job serious. Are you cooking it yourself, or are you buying it wholesale? You mean like the wax? Yeah. No, no, no. I'm buying it wholesale from my guy, yeah. Got it. So you're getting like QPs of just fucking wax. Yeah, just slabs, which again, then it's, I know it's not like a pound of people, but it was hard to sell that. Those guys were selling at 50 a gram, 40 a gram. I was selling 25, but like, I mean, it took me a week, and I was clearing four ounces a day. And that was after just going to him like a week later. I'm like, hey, I need four ounces every day now. And people are hitting that with the blowtorch? Yeah. Fuck, I did that once. I was like, if I survive this, I'm never fucking again. Yeah, it's a lot stronger now. Yeah, they've come up to modern day now. And you're marketing this on Snapchat? Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And I say marketing, it's kind of sad to say this now, people, but when you're making butane wax, you're cooking it at such a high temperature, there's no flavor. So it's literally just shit. But everyone always hit it and be like, what do you tell your plug when you smoke someone's weed? Oh, it's good shit, tastes good. Okay, well, all this is burned the same. All this tastes the same. So I would just make up names. Luke Skywalker, right here, boom. Like I'm giving different names, and they're like, it's advertised to them. But to me, I'm like, dude, this all tastes the same. Then it graduated to gold wax, and that had real names. I gave it that. Karts was brass knuckles. Then Big Chief. I always saw those a lot on the street. And then weed, whatever. I'd try to get like a half pound, pound. You know, some Blue Dream, something, you know, OG Kush. And then you just take a picture of it and post it on Snapchat and tell people where you're going to be? Shop is open 8 to 8. I'd post that every day in the morning to show it's like work. It's like really open. And I'd always put it at the bottom. I'd put everybody make appointments. So no one gets to meet up right then. I could be right then five minutes away from you. You're not getting it. Make an appointment. So what that started to do is create strides. Once I'm doing this with 20 people, it's still not really going. But once I did this with 500 people, I could probably clear about 200 people a week doing it like this, the system. Because it got to the point where 30 people are meeting me at Bank of America. Like, okay, because now what I'm doing is I'm doing this 8 to 8, and I'm going out and serving people. When it gets busy, hey, guys, they think I'm driving from 8 to 11, but really I'm setting everyone up for an 11 o'clock rush. I'm going to have 30 people there. Get in, get out. Okay, well, then I got my little licks in between, but at 3 o'clock, I'm going to stay close to 6, take care of everyone in Conroe. But at 3 o'clock, I got another 30 people. I'm meeting in a different area. Let's get that one. Let's go back. Let's get more. And, of course, when that started going like that, I had to see my plug like daily to get wax, carts, weed, addies, annex. But, yeah. So did you ever have to put that aside because you got a call from the south? Yes. So the deal with that was then is I'd still post the shop's open 8 to 8. The shop has to look like a regular shop. But, really, I had a guy, and every $100 he made, which I'd only. Let plays $100 or more get served then, he gets $20. So you get 20% of every. That's how I try to keep it. You make a decent amount when you go do 15 licks for me in a day. So you could be doing a job in Mexico, and your wax business is still moving? He's going to run it, yeah. And I don't have to call him, check on him. That one time I was there for four days in Mexico where I had to stay a little longer. Oh, dude. God, I love that man. Because I was supposed to be back in two. And he just kept going. And you didn't have your phone on you. You don't get to call him, bro. I'll know when I talk to him in San Antonio. He knows. Every time I'm going to call him, I get somewhere safe. Other than that, just keep it going. But yeah, that two days, the extra two days, he did not have to do that. That was nice. So let me ask you this. You're making all this money. You've got a really kind of a booming drug business, wax business. Why keep doing these hits? Do you think you were addicted? Do you think a part of you craved that? Yeah. I like the challenge. But where was the morality? Was it all gone? At this point? What do you mean morality? Didn't you know what you were doing was wrong? That first bite of your favorite sub, followed by ice cold Pepsi. Food deserves Pepsi. Grab a Pepsi Zero Sugar today. Not wrong like illegal, wrong like. Yeah, it looks like it. Wrong like evil. Yeah, no, I'm really. As my brother says, I'm a bad person learning to be good. And I did, but you don't think about that then. You've gone so far at that point, it's just normal. It's just a normal thing. Yeah, my friends would not know. I would openly go, and then I would come and hold my nephew, not knowing. You know, he knows I'm selling, but he doesn't know, like, I'd go over there. You just smoked a motherfucker. Yeah. Wow. Well, it's interesting, because you talked about at the beginning how growing up in a strict Mormon household, you had to live two lives. I lived two lives. And now you're living the most extreme form of a double life. And you love it. It's thrilling. Because even though it's all crazy, I'm gone away from it. When you take it away from me, you're like, I don't know who I am. I don't know what to do. Like, I got out. I didn't know what to do, because I was like, damn, bro. This is, like, what I was good at. But then, like, I got family. So, you know, I don't want to do that to them. Okay. What was the last year? When did you stop? Why did you stop going down there? Oh, so the kid that went out there from Montgomery County, that was, like, the circumstances of what he did, he was moving people. He left $40,000 and his ID in a safe. It got hit. And I know, like, I know his family. Like, his brother gave me a job one time, and I really needed it. And it's like, you know, I was in his house when, like, he got his new license. Like, bro, your address is these people. And he burned off. It created a whole thing. I can't talk about it just because of how close I was to the family. But, yeah, he knew not to go back out there anymore. It just created a lot of chaos. And that was the last time I went out there. I took care of somebody I wanted to. But, you know, pussy ass, like, you know. Like, dude, your brother had nothing to do with that shit. And it's like, I know, because I know you. I know you got your, like, your driver's license is in that safe. I know your license renewed at his house because I was there the day you got your license renewed. I didn't took you there. Like, bro, you just ran off. This is your brother. This is his wife. She has kids. Like, bro, you just burned off. And you think it's like burning off on the plug in Montgomery County. Like, you ran off with a pound. That's not what this is. I never went back after that. So for your own safety, because you're connected to this guy who burned the cartel. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, I got a call later. That was, you know, again, when I realized I fucking organized these people. Like, I don't like, it's like I have them on Facebook or something. But yeah, we were in the same county. And yeah, I did know him. I did know him. It just happened to be. But I wish I did not know him then. Okay. So, so you stopped and that was like 2019? That was, no, this was, so I'd been in prison. I got out and it'd been about a year out. And I saw him on Snapchat with. You know, the ice. So I call his brother and I'm like, what is he doing? And he's like, well, he's down there. And I'm like, I go down and see him. But it's like, bro, you're like, you got ice. You're, you're, you're, you're, it's fucking July, man. It's 90 degrees. I was like, this isn't where you want to play with that and do all that and be cowboy. Like you don't need to be high and be cowboy. But yeah, he's moving people and just did something stupid. Just, yeah. So I never went back after that. That was in 2021. I went down and helped with that and I never went down again. Okay. Now you went to prison, talk about what you got busted for. Carts and wax. Uh, I got pulled over in 2019 in October and they found like 15 cards, like 12 grams of wax and my phone, like the phone that I was actively on Snapchat, you know, like they're trying to talk to me and you just hear my thing linked to the Bluetooth, like every 30 seconds we've been talking for 15 minutes is bad. It's bad, bro. They're looking at me. Who's calling you, man. Who's calling you, buddy. Yeah. But it really, the whole 15 minutes. So obnoxious, bro. They grabbed my phone and just see the Snapchat. Just keep coming in. Yeah. And at this point weed is legal in Texas now, right? In 2019. And he, in Houston, uh, it's a misdemeanor in certain parts, but no, I'm in Montgomery County. That's north of Houston. It is not. Um, you will go to jail for 10 days if your license plate is, if, if the license plate is too big. They're going to take you for anything. Grandma weed weed whatever um it's manufactured with intent to deliver controlled substance out there so it's a felony one so minimum you get is five years and the most they could give you is 99 yes i'm not i know you can look it up it's when you've got the carts the wax control substance and they they treat it the same way so my first offer was 12 years my second offer was eight my third offer was five and they looked at my phone so basically they were like well you know you could tell on somebody we know you got a few people or you could go to trial and get 20 and i told my lawyer i was like man you're just go give me that five what are you we're not doing all that go get the five yeah i got the five i didn't even know at the time i thought when you got five you five years in prison i was fully prepared to do all that that was a blessing compared to what they could have caught me with you know well yeah you must have thought you must have sat in your cell i was happy as a son of a bitch damn i got five years like yeah did they find out at the border what happened to you they must have yeah but you know i mean nothing changed like you know if i tell you know that you'd know first i didn't tell like my name wasn't on any paperwork that's what would have told them that well did you bail out though and let them know hey i'm getting ready to go away i i well i didn't know then because covid was going on like courts were getting delayed my lawyer wasn't even showing up like it was everyone was preparing not to go in um i signed and it actually took them three months to get me to turn in because they kept shutting down the wow yeah so you got you got it kind of lucky when you got arrested because they were kicking people out early and because you only did what i did like i didn't even do a year got a fi1 which is 30 days to the house so yeah and i got released from the unit i walked into right so you never even got transferred you never even moved around the second time i did i went to a lot of units but that first time no total blessing went to the transit unit in the same dorm with the same people bye cakewalk even the second time was a cakewalk but then i went to more units i went to elliott list i went to larry gist i went to holiday i went to uh garza east and beaumont i went to a couple the second time why did you violate oh they found two weed carts on me and they tried to give me four years and i got them to two and uh so i have a two and i have a five with two left either way i'm doing a year on whichever one they give me i got a year left on this one i got two on this one but i'm only doing a year so i mean i you know it's just it was a parole violation but yeah they basically just caught me again with a smaller amount i wasn't able to do anything dealing then okay so you weren't dealing when you got back out no i was working two jobs just you know trying to be good yeah and then you go deal with this one thing yeah i just you know i had a couple carts i take home i keep them at the house but yeah i went and picked them up was going back home and they just pulled me over wow so how long you been home now a year yeah since april of last year i got released from the walls unit and that was easy that time or what was that time like that was easy but did you know any anybody from did you run into anybody that you knew from from mexico or from the border not from the border a couple guys i did business with in the world and like my county sure but no no one from yeah did you did were there any guys when you were down there on the border that ended up getting roped into big indictments or anything like that uh when i was at ellis i have a friend and he does have 60 and i knew him like from from the world yeah that's the most time i've seen on someone yeah 60 in the feds no he's 60 in the state okay yeah yeah it's weird it doesn't seem like those human smuggling operations there's never any big indictments like there are with drugs i mean because the guy you're not going to get the guy that has 100 people right that's five right and it's all right you can't you just can't put it together people are different than narcotics yeah it's it's it's yeah and these people aren't going to tell you man and it's so decentralized too like whereas it's easier to group it's easier for the the feds to group together people that have drugs you know you can't like no the biggest problem is is that like even the guy who let a hundred people cross his border when the biden administration was there they're gonna be like what's his name like dude no he sent a guy who sent another guy to go collect the money and bring it back you didn't even see the fucking car that he has in his driveway like you didn't even see the car that went to go get the money for the car like come on bro like you're not even gonna see him right and you're not gonna collect they're not gonna go serve any of those hey man the u.s wants to talk to you these are gonna shut the door of their face actually you don't have to go to the front yard they're gonna stay right there and they're gonna do it yeah how much do you know how much these migrants were being charged like you you were there you were there in the years before covid and before biden but do you know what the the average fee was what i heard 15 000 well just starting from the top trickling down oh right so the highest fee would be for like the big guy's getting 15 and then it's trickling down did you see anything like that yeah i mean like i mean like you're gonna see a lot of them let me say that but you're gonna see them with more professionals because their fee is not they're paying 40 50 000 yeah same for the uh people from india it's like 45 50 g's i'm not gonna see them like you're gonna have like professionals that are like someone who's offering that much is showing you that they got they're gonna make it a little bit better i never saw any chinese people or india people but they do move down there and they're they do their people are moving okay yeah they'll go to mexico city and start right yeah they they they do it they give them the luxury service but so but even a average mexican could have been paying ten thousand eight thousand dollars easy wow yeah that is huge business yeah my what so one of the guys i knew uh you know it's just like getting a christmas bonus but like he took two people you know the car to paid him but he took him to the guy who was so grateful handed him nine thousand dollars cash like that was just and that never happens but like bro like right some of these people are like yeah you could hit dice like that right i mean really i was like bro what did you go do and he was like no that he tipped me i was like what the fuck you mean he tipped you bro we can't rob him and he was like i didn't rob him i was like bro i swear to god he's like no that's all right that's probably a family member that needed you know so desperate or but imagine he probably already paid 10 for them to come over and then just say here you go yeah you know he already paid like i have a theory bro the a lot of these big industries you know people that lobby politicians lobby the trump administration the biden administration whoever they need a legal immigrant immigrants so bad to work in their slaughterhouses their their agricultural fields their factories their hotels i think they have guys on the street that literally just that that recruit the the immigrants that are getting smuggled over i really do no one surprised me they always end up working at like the the people that have the worst conditions always end up working at the worst places it's like who's like who's paying the bill on this like who right now who's paying light bill yeah because a family member is not gonna pay i love my family but i spent all the money i have to get them across i'm not giving you a nine grand tip yeah when i just spent 20 racks that was the only time i ever saw that though in my life and i could not believe it that was so bro like hey i knew one guy and he would bring people over and he was like a good looking dude and somebody you know he had fun with the with some of the you know clients sometimes but like that was a regular thing with him and he just yeah some of these people you'd be surprised how grateful they are it's crazy uh were most of the guys working on this side american citizens yeah yeah right yeah because they're the ones who can move around yeah slip around yeah yeah i rarely rarely i there where i saw a guy like okay you work on the other side like and he stuck out like he came to the hotel whole vibes changed for everybody except me i recognize it but it was different when he walked up for people how so because he was there's the vibes bro he was mexican yeah you're you're like you're you know you're someone of importance you're sent by someone of important status to come back over to eagle pass to address something the vibes were different i see okay that makes sense so you could feel when somebody of power was there yeah those murder vibes in there for real yeah and they're giving orders no that was to address something wasn't my business i was just we were staying at the hotel but he had to go talk to one of the dudes and when people of importance were sent over were they also brought over by the coyote or would they come through the check i saw i got pull up in a car i was sitting in a hotel but he pulled up in a car i mean you know when you were smuggling people over did you ever see somebody because you can tell who's there to work who's being smuggled to this country because they're desperately poor and they'll be all black we need you to uh we need you to wear all black and also how i told you about the coyote and the coyote and also how i told you for the drugs we keep one set of reflectors and we'll cover the bags so you can see it if you're driving by right well for the illegals no you cut off all the light reflectors right and you wear all black so most of the time actually most of them are wearing all black okay yeah i never saw someone try to come in yellow sweatpants i didn't have to turn around you're gone right but would you did you ever look at somebody and be like oh you're coming over here to do a job oh um no no okay no i never personally no one would be in our career i imagine they would especially going that way i'd probably they'd move them a little bit more privately and they do have people that sit here they do have people that sit like you know like people on call in regular states oh never met any of them but they are real right they just have people posted like yeah and of course they're not making 400 like a guy who's over there like deep in Mexico they're making some real real money yeah that makes sense bring them over here nobody knows they're here and just your job is to sit here and only thing you're doing is they're gonna pay you more and they're you doing that you're like wow yeah so you got out the second time you're home you're in a relationship well i've gotten a relationship i was in a relationship yet yeah i met her uh I'd probably been out for, like, almost a year, a little less. And you're in therapy, which is great. Yeah. Yeah, get therapy, people, if you've seen violence, because it disturbs your soul. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, a lot of people are doing the MDMA therapy now. I have friends that are doing the micro-dosing. I really believe in micro-dosing. It's beautiful. I really do. Like, it sets your tone for the day, which is hard to do when you've seen stuff. Yeah. Yeah. Do you feel, does this feel okay? Yeah, this is nice. Okay. Yeah. I need to do this. I was nervous. Oh, man. It's the scariest thing in my life. Yeah. Wow. Well, thanks for coming, man. That was a really incredible story. Do you worry at all about any of these things you've talked about coming back on you? Nope. You want to come, come, bro. I'm not, you can't be biased to death, bro. You want to go out there and kill people? Don't, hey, when it's time to get killed, I'm not saying don't cry or do whatever you're going to do. Pray, do it. But, like, bro, if it comes, it comes. Like, God got me, man. You going to get me? Come get me. So, have you come back to God? It sounds like you've come back to God. Well, I believe in God. I'm just not the Mormon guy. You know what I mean? I believe in God. Yeah, absolutely. Even when you were doing that? Yeah, I'm not praying or talking to him, but, like, I'm aware he's there. You know, it's just like, man, I think you'll just see me when you see me. Like, we'll figure it out then. Like, you know, you're going to send me to hell. Send me to hell. I've already been there. If I get to go with my people, cool. Let's go. But, like, wherever you're going to send me, it's rocking and rolling. Like, you know, I'm going to be me. Like, if I'm in hell with the monsters, let's be monsters. You send me to heaven with my people, cool. I'm going to go be at peace. Like, but you just got to make it work at that point. Do you worry about any of your family or friends seeing this on the internet? No. Y'all watch it. I love all y'all, but it is what it is. It's the truth. Like, I don't give a fuck. You know, it is what it is. That's my story. Yeah, y'all don't know about that, but it's okay. I still love y'all. I'm sorry if I hurt some of y'all, but fuck it, you know? I'm here now. So they haven't, nobody from your normal life has ever found out about? When I came out of prison, obviously there were questions, but even then I didn't really try to talk about all that until later because that was different. Like, the drugs and stuff was enough. They were like, oh my God. Right. And I'm sitting there like, wow, we could, you know, we could do another movie. We could, like, keep going. And, yeah, I didn't want to. That fucked me up, really. Like, seeing that, because I was like, damn, I'm going to do another movie. I was like, damn, I'm going to do another movie. Damn, we're not even to the next, like, we haven't got to part two, dog. Right. Yeah, yeah, you guys have no clue. You think this is bad. Now, yeah, what did the, your dad's side specifically, the Mormon side, when you went away for selling drugs, I mean, did that blow their whole world up or? No, because my cousins knew I was kind of crazy. So they just like, we love you. Be safe. But my family hadn't seen me in so long. I came to my aunt's, they wanted to do like a little party kind of like for me, but, you know, it was just family. But like, yeah, my aunt gave me a hug and we really just didn't talk about it because they know I'm just trying to move past that. They know that now I'm present. I'm not in the streets anymore. So really to them, it's just like, do whatever you got to do. So they brought you back. Yeah, absolutely. They accepted you back. Oh yeah, yeah, of course. That's amazing. Yeah. That's amazing. I'm happy to hear that. Well, Tyler, thank you so much. I really, really, really appreciate it. And, you know, best of luck. Is there anything that we need to promote for you or anything like that? No, I'm just Tyler. Yeah. All right. I don't got, I don't got Instagram. Well, I do, but it was really just so I could talk to Matthew Cox. So I don't, I don't do that. I don't got Instagram. I'm about to go live my own life. We don't know who Matthew Cox is. Don't ever say his name on this podcast. We don't want to promote Matt Cox. Except do go check out The Murder Men, a podcast I do with Matt Cox. Well, I'm going to check out Murder Men because yeah, you need to. It's good for you. All right, you guys, we'll see you next time. Thanks, buddy. Yeah. Yeah. Queen Carvania stood haloed by the morning sun. An army hung on her every word. My champions, I have sold my chariot on Carvana. It was a lovely SUV, an inexplicably queenly offer. They're even coming to the castle to collect it. Tonight, we feast. An offer you can feast on. Sell your car today on Carvana. Pick up fees may apply.