How a Mom of 6 Runs Her Home Without Losing Her Mind | Wife School #2 Katie Voetberg

You married a Vogtberg. You're my soon-to-be sister-in-law. What was your first impression of Vance as a kid? Oh, everyone loved Vance. Everybody has a ton of kids, but there's not a bunch of junk toys. People have a purchasing problem, not a decluttering problem. In our home, we're really big on builder toys. So, you know, we've got a box of Lego, Lincoln Logs, mag tiles, dress up. And that's all the toys the kids have. When you pare things down to what you actually use on a regular basis, then it's a lot easier to organize that. Elisha and I have that hierarchy in our marriage. That said, he listens to my opinion. He's still the one that ultimately makes the decision, but I feel like he does so in my favor. We're so excited to have you in the family. You're so good for Vance, and we couldn't be more thrilled for you guys. You're such a fun aunt. You're already so much more of a fun aunt than I ever was. I, like, see you with all the nieces, and I'm just like, wow, I need to be more like Alex. What? ♪♪♪ ♪♪♪ ♪♪♪ ♪♪♪ ♪♪♪ ♪♪♪ ♪♪♪ ♪♪♪ ♪♪♪ ♪♪♪ ♪♪♪ Today is a first. On Culture Apothecary, it is my first time having an almost family member on the show. Katie Vogtberg is my soon-to-be sister-in-law, which means she married a Vogtberg son before I did and has graciously agreed to give me a little wife school before I joined the family. Katie and her husband, Elisha, live in a barn in North Idaho with their six children. Together, they host the Now That We're a Family podcast, where they talk honestly about marriage, parenting, homemaking, and building a family culture. Routed in biblical values, she also helps run Vogtberg Music Academy and writes music because, you know, apparently raising six children, almost seven, was not enough to keep her busy. Katie comes from a family of 11 children herself. She married Vance's brother, Elisha, who comes from a family of 10. And recently, together, they celebrated 10 years of marriage. So today, we're getting extremely practical. How to create peace in your home, how to stop micromanaging your husband, manage the never-ending laundry, run a household smoothly, and efficiently host a giant Vogtberg dinner and figure out what actually matters when you're building a family and life together. Watch this episode on the Real Alex Clark YouTube channel or Culture Apothecary on Spotify. Now, if you're new here on this podcast, we're in the business of healing a sick culture, and every episode talks about how to do that, either physically, emotionally, or spiritually. If you could pause for five seconds before we start, leave a five-star review, share how long you've been listening. Whether it's one day or two years, we would be so grateful. Please welcome Katie. Katie Vogtberg, co-host of the Now That We're a Family podcast to Culture Apothecary. You're the first family member, I guess, right now, almost family member that I've ever had on the show. You married a Vogtberg son, and you're my soon-to-be sister-in-law. And you guys also have a podcast, which covers marriage and parenting, all from a Christian, biblical perspective. So I knew I couldn't do wife school without you. Like, it just, you know, I'm doing this series as I'm getting ready to be married, and I knew that you had to be a part of it. So I'm really glad that you came on. Thank you so much for having me on, Alex. It's an honor to be here, and it's kind of intimidating, honestly, being the first one of Vance's family, but being an in-law on your show. No, I love this, and the audience loves you guys. A lot of my audience actually does know who you are, because as soon as I finally announced who I was getting engaged to, they were like, wait, a Vogtberg? We know them! And so they were so excited. And they have been badgering me ever since to have you or you and Elisha, which I know eventually we want to do on the show. So I think this is going to be awesome. But for those that don't know you guys, talk a little bit about your upbringing and how you met Elisha. Yeah, so we have kind of a fairy tale story in that it ended up working out. I was eight years old, and he was 12. And we went to a family camp, and I saw his tan legs under, you know, looking back, they were like the skinniest little things ever, you know? But I thought he was so muscular, and I saw him under the trampoline. I was sitting under the trampoline, which is a bad idea. And I was just like, that is the cutest boy I have ever seen in my life. And I went back, and I wrote in my journal, I want to marry Elisha Vogtberg at that family camp. And so I struck up a friendship with his two younger sisters. We stayed pen pals. I lived in Southern California. He lived in Washington. We would only see each other once a year at this camp. He didn't even know who I was, but I was pen pals with his little sisters. And then I was 18. And he finally noticed me and asked my dad to date me. And I was just like, mind blown. Like, he knows my name. Are you kidding me? Now, in the meantime, because that's, you know, from eight years old to 18, you said. So in the meantime, in your teenage years, had you dated anybody else? Like, or were you holding out for Elisha this whole time? So if you talk to his sisters, they knew he was always my, like, celebrity crush. Yeah. But, you know, he played on stage with his siblings in a band. And yeah, so he was totally a celebrity. But then there were other boys that I was definitely interested in in our family. You didn't date until you were 18. So that kind of, I didn't have any official relationship until Elisha. And actually, my dad, I was the first girl to start dating. I have seven younger sisters. And so he told four different guys right before my 18th birthday that had been interested. Okay, Katie is going to be dating, you know, material now. So. So, may the best man win. And he said, I'm telling other people this, too. So that's what he told Elisha. And Elisha was like, what on earth? Is this like a rodeo? Just like the way my dad does things. And your parents also, your parents do like marriage counseling or marriage retreats and stuff, right? They do. And this was their first time getting a daughter married. So they wouldn't recommend that now. But anyways, that's how it worked out with me. And so Elisha and I, we wrote letters. My dad felt like I was going to get married. My mom was still a little young. Elisha was 22 at the time. So we wrote letters for like a year and a half. And it was very much a courtship type relationship. Like I always had chaperones with sisters and stuff like that. And it didn't really, it was hard for us to gain traction in that type of relationship. And so Elisha broke up with me. I was like, well, it was too good to be true anyways, you know. What was his reason? He said, I think he just said like we aren't going anywhere. Yeah. And my dad was very involved in our relationship. And so looking back, he was like, yeah, I can see that. This, you know, it was just stifling the organic growth that would have happened there. It just wasn't fun for either of us. And I was really insecure around Elisha. And yeah, I was just. What do you mean you were insecure around him? Well, I just, I didn't think I was good enough for him. You know, like I just idolized him my whole life. And I couldn't believe that he was interested in me. And so I just was, you know, I was super confident around anyone else, like other guys and stuff. And then with Elisha, I just like clam up. Yeah. You know, I never tell him I liked him. And stuff like that. And he's like, she doesn't even, she's not even into me. So how long, once you were 18, you guys, you tried the dating thing. How long did you do that before the breakup? I want to say that it was about a year. Okay. He came to one of my high school volleyball games. And he was like, I'm too old for this girl. Like, I mean, that's kind of fair. When you see them in that environment with that age gap, it is a little weird at that age. You know, it was. Yeah. It just kind of like made it like, okay, we're on different playing fields. So then we both dated other people for a year and a half. Broke up the same spring with who we were dating and went road trip to a wedding together. And there we like hit it off and started texting. And I'd say like three weeks after we started really hitting it off the second time, we went ring shopping. Wow. So we were like really committed. Okay. So from the time that you guys got back together to engagement, how much time was that? So we got back together in October and we got engaged February 15th. Oh, my gosh. And we would have gotten engaged sooner, but it was just really convincing my family at that point. It was a good idea because they were like, you guys were terrible together the first time. But then you guys, I mean, what did he say changed his mind then? If he was like, I don't know that we're really on the same playing field anymore. There might be too big of an age gap to then like, I think I want to marry her. Yes. You know, that's a good question. I think we both. So we both came from homeschool families, big families. There was a lot we had in common and a lot that we just assumed. We knew about the other person and kind of took for granted. And then we both dated outside of our regular circles. And I think we started to appreciate things that the other person had in common with us. And so I think he came back the second time and was like, one, I'd grown up a little bit. So I think there was that. And I was a lot more just confident in my own skin and able to affirm him and have a more natural dating relationship the second time. And so we were actually able to have like chemistry, you know, with my. Dad and sister's not in the room. And so then you got married at what age? And so I had just turned 21. You're married and you've been married for 10 years. Yeah. You're pregnant with your seventh. And so the oldest is how old? Nine. Okay. Just turned nine. Okay. Yeah. Wow. That is crazy. So I have to ask, I think in the audience is going to be wanting to know when you got back together with Elijah. I mean, Vance must have been very little because they've got quite a big age gap between them. What was your first impression of Vance? - As a kid. Everyone loved Vance. I mean, he was this cute little kid with his little glasses, like a big flirt, like with older girls. Like, I don't know where he like knew what to say, but he had all these little like coy one-liners. I was really intimidated by Vance because, you know, Vance's family plays music and they were all very good at the violin. And so I got a violin because I wanted to be good at violin. I was like 12 or 13 at the time and Vance is four years old and he's just ripping out these tunes. You know, and I'm standing next to him and I'm like, this is not the instrument for me. So I was very intimidated by Vance. He's like insane and he's judgy too. He'll tell you you are off key or whatever. He will let you know. Yeah, put you in your place. So he was just very confident from, you know, my first memories of him at three and four years old. That's cute. That's really cute. Like I said, a lot of my audience knows you guys listens to your show. For those that don't, though, how would you describe your family's mission and kind of what you believe? And what you want to put out into the world? That's a great question. And it's something that we circle back around to, you know, because there's so many things you can talk about. And I think it's really come down to wanting to encourage Christian families just in the Christian families, just very under attack. And that relationship of like, you can have so much joy in marriage. It could be a wonderful thing, you know, with effort, with work. But it's just it's such a gift. And then there's so much joy that comes from having children. And I think we both were able to experience that joy. In our own families, and now together. And so Elisha, and I just want to encourage people in that because I think a lot of families feel isolated, and kind of like maybe I'm the only person valuing these things where I live, and we want to help them know they just aren't alone in that. You come from a family of 11 kids. Elisha comes from a family of 10. Have you guys dealt with some pretty funny stereotypes of what people assume you guys are like, just based on your upbringing of these conservative Christian large homeschool families? Yeah. And you know, what's funny is like, they aren't always wrong. Sometimes we have to laugh at ourselves, you know, because it's like, even when we tell our dating story or whatever, it's like, it is bizarre. You know, there are elements to it that are very strange. And we both really respect our dads. They wanted something different than how they were raised. But I would say some of the stereotypes, it's like, you know, people are surprised when they meet you and you're a personable person or something like that. But then sometimes when they hear stories of how we were raised, I do think it fits into the stereotypes. Yeah. Like, you guys are weirdos, you know? It's a little fair. Yeah. When did you and Elisha start deciding, I think we want to start podcasting and blogging about our marriage and raising kids? I want to say right when we got married. Really? Yeah. And I don't know why that was an interest to us. I'd always wanted to be a writer, and he had. We both wanted to write a book. And so we had talked about that prior to marriage. And I think when you start looking into how do you, you know, get a book deal, it was like, at the time it was blogging. And so both of us thought, oh, we'll try blogging. And then we had friends who were podcasters. And Elisha's like, I want to get into the podcasting space. He's like, it would be so cool to be able to learn from people that are further ahead and interview them. And so he really headed up the podcast side of it. And we talked to a mutual friend, and he was like, it's hard to line up interviews. You guys better just do it yourself and put in interviews when you can. So that's kind of what we did starting off to make it easier for us. Yeah. And it's called Now That We're a Family. And I guess one thing that I'm really curious about, because these are conversations that Vance and I are having and trying to figure out ourselves with what my job is, is how did you guys decide what to share publicly? And how did you decide what to keep private when it comes to raising kids in your own marriage? It's funny because I was raised in a much more public family than the Vogtberg family is, I would say. But the funny thing is, is Elisha. Elisha was a lot more kind of risky, I guess, in public settings in real life than I was. Like, he was more out there in real life settings, and I felt more comfortable being out there online. And so there were definitely times I would post things, and he's just like, what are you posting? You know, he just had a different sensitivity to that. And a lot of our first disagreements were on that, where I was like, this is good. This is going to be helpful for someone. And he's like thinking of his friend on Facebook that's going to. You know, be offended by it or whatever. So it was just a process of learning, okay, how do I represent you well? How do you want your wife to present online? You know, because I am a representative of our family and him. And so I think that was a learning curve. And then him learning to trust me as well and be like, okay, I see your heart behind this and all that. I think once we had kids, we became a lot more unified on what we wanted to share and not. Because once the kids. Kids started becoming kind of fodder for conversation, we kind of drew back that side of our public life. And did you guys go through and decide, like, okay, these are the different types of subjects, like, we're not going to touch. Like, we'll never share X, Y, Z. Did you set parameters like that or just kind of as they come up, like, do we want to talk about this? Do we not? I feel like it was kind of as it came up. Yeah. Initially. Yeah. Where I'd be like, oh, let's talk about it. This is a hot topic right now. And he's like, no, no, no, I'm not okay with that. And then with the kids. With the kids, though, we set specific parameters. And I would say we set them late. We weren't on the front edge of, like, protecting our children, I would say. We were all very comfortable with having them online, vlogging, stuff like that. Times have changed. Yeah, they have. It's crazy. Just the Internet landscape between even 2016 and now, just 10 years, how much is different, especially with AI and all these other things. What is something that you kind of assumed about marriage? You were absolutely convinced about something, and then you got married, and then you realized, wow, I could not have been more wrong about this. So I think the biggest thing that I noticed is in marriage, I thought there were couples you just figured out how to have a good marriage, and then you had a good marriage. Like, I thought there was a set of steps that if you could, like, figure them out. Like, I'm a rule follower kind of a person. I was like, I just want to figure out how to do it and then do it well. And while there's truth to developing tool sets and skill sets, it's like. Your spouse is going to keep changing and keep iterating, and, you know, a new grief is going to happen. Like, maybe they'll lose a parent later and in their 40s or a sibling or you could go through something traumatic with a child. Or there's just going to be things that bring out a side of your spouse, I think, at any stage in marriage that you aren't going to have anticipated. And it's not like, oh, well, I know Elisha down cold. This is what always works. You know, I think. I think just watching my parents, watching his parents, and then now just having 10 years of marriage, it's like, oh, I feel like we know each other very well. We're best friends. We have good communication. But then you just walk through hard things with someone at different stages, I guess. And you have to keep learning. Keep learning your spouse. And I don't think that ever is going to go away. What is the first thing you should do if you start to feel a little bit of distance between you and your spouse? Like, just. I don't know. Ebbs and flows of the days. Or you guys are both traveling. Or just something is off. You feel a little distance. Like, what do you think is the best way to kind of repair that? This might be just personal to me in our marriage. Because love languages, you know, mine's quality time. So I'm going to always say have a conversation, you know, that would, like, make me feel closer with Elisha. For him, I feel like often it's physical intimacy, which sounds like such a stereotypical answer. But in our marriage, that has been something to just prove, like, hey. I'm close. I got you. We're together. So I think it's different things at different times. But just distraction-free connection. Yeah. And you guys are big on distraction-free. Because do either you or Elisha have a smartphone? No. He's been six years now without a smartphone. And I've been five. So what do you use? So we do have a. Well, we have flip phones. OK. Like $30 Walmart flip phones. And I know there's so many different options out there now. But I just feel like the flip. Phone just is the best. And did you notice? Have you noticed a massive difference in just your relationship, your family dynamic, just not having a smart device like that in the home? Yeah, I think I notice it mainly for myself with the kids. Not so much Elisha's in my relationship, but with the children. And I would say him not having his phone, I notice more with our dynamic. I feel like he's more present for me without his phone. Yeah. So, I mean, we both have computers. So it's not like we're like. Yeah. Because you guys have a sub stack. You're obviously uploading your podcast. So you have that going on. Yes. So we have Internet. We have Wi-Fi and all those things. But just, you know, you don't really casually pull out your laptop. Yeah. So it definitely just sets up a little bit more friction there. Every September, Pumpkin Spice stages a hostile takeover of this country. You walk into a store looking for toothpaste and suddenly there are Pumpkin Spice candles, Pumpkin Spice cereal, Pumpkin Spice dog treats. And yeah, maybe Pumpkin Spice toothpaste. At some point you're like, does my Labrador need to experience autumn? But I will absolutely participate when it involves protein. I don't know about you. Sava just launched their seasonal Pumpkin Spice protein. 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And one of my favorite parts is when this Harvard-trained doctor comes to town acting like he's God's gift to medicine, wanting to deliver everybody's babies, and things are not going great. Meanwhile, of course, he doesn't know anything about birth. He's like 24, just graduated. But he's got the white coat and the ego and the credentials, this fancy education. And then there's Martha, who's actually delivered hundreds of babies and has decades of real-world experience, right? It's funny how little things have changed since the late 1700s. We're still taught that the biggest institutions automatically know best, right? If it's a doctor and he has a degree, well, he must know everything, and we just have to trust. Well, just like Martha back then, I agree. We shouldn't just be handing over our control of our health care without asking questions. That's one of the reasons I appreciate CrowdHealth. CrowdHealth is not health insurance. It's a community that helps people fund major medical expenses without the traditional insurance middleman. Because here's the reality. Paying cash for routine care, like having a baby, is often dramatically less expensive than people realize. And when something truly catastrophic happens, CrowdHealth's community steps in to help with those big bills. And you're like, no, they win it, and I'm going to be on the hook if I have cancer or crazy surgery or a car accident. No, no, no, no, no. CrowdHealth has a 99.9% funding success rate, okay? That is way more. Than a traditional insurance company who denies one out of every four claims. CrowdHealth lets you choose your own doctors, including functional medicine providers, naturopaths, whatever you want. They even provide $300 annually toward wellness support. They will give you a dedicated care advocate to help negotiate bills. My mom has one. My mom has just joined CrowdHealth as well. If you have been feeling trapped by the traditional insurance system, it's time to start asking better questions. Go to joincrowdhealth.com. Use code CULTURE to get started for just $99 for your first three months. That's joincrowdhealth.com, code CULTURE. CrowdHealth. That is not insurance. When it comes to disagreements, how do you decide basically like who needs to give in to compromise without always making it that one person is always getting their way? Okay, so I'm going to say kind of the, I guess, fundamentalist answer first, which is, you know, the Bible verse, wives submit to your husbands. So Elisha and I have that hierarchy in our marriage that is clear. That said, he listens to my opinions like he won't listen to anyone else's opinion, you know, because he wants me at the end of the day to be happy. So when you're in a loving marriage, there are so many times when Elisha goes for my preference because I've just made it so clear this means the world to me. And he's like, okay, this is a way I can love her. And so he lets me have the preference, you know? So if it comes to big decisions or stuff like that, he's still the one that ultimately makes the decision. But I feel like he does so in my favor by me nine times out of 10, you know? And then it's more up to me to be like, okay, I won't make your life miserable if we go through your preference because, or with your preference here. Because I do think that the wife has a lot of power to say, okay, you know, we'll go with your preference, but like, I'm going to make your life stink because I don't want to go with it, you know? I totally, I know what you mean. And I can totally be guilty of something like that for sure. Has there been a time where, okay, he did choose something, whatever it is that you didn't necessarily agree with, and then it didn't pan out. And then did you find yourself having to learn that, like, hold my tongue, not nag or berate him? Like, I told you so, we shouldn't have done that. Like, have you experienced that? Well, my mom gave me really good advice early on in marriage. And she said, never say I told you so. Okay. She's like, if you are right, he will know you are right. And she's like, he might not even say you're right, but trust me, he will know. So she's like, never say that. And so I don't think it's ever been something I said in our marriage. You know, Elisha isn't here, but that has come to mind often where it's just like, oh, that I was actually right there. And he just said, you know, I was right. And Elisha's not like this proud person. He's really willing to be like, oh man, you know, you were right. But I think there are some times where, yeah, it's been kind of fun to see. It just, I would never say it. Because then you don't end up winning. Right. Even in the relationship, you know, it's like he's going to, because he'll probably be, he'll be more likely next time to be like, I'm going to make this decision and prove I can make good decisions and make it right without her. You know, it kind of like sets up a losing battle versus him coming for advice next time. This is kind of controversial in Christian circles. What do you and Elisha think about the Enneagram for Christian couples? Do you think that it's helpful for marriage or do you think it's something that nobody should touch? I have mixed feelings about the Enneagram because Elisha hates personality tests. You know, it's so advanced. Is this a Votberg thing? I don't know. Is it Votberg or guys? It could be either. They don't like women putting them in boxes or something. Yeah. Elisha's like, don't put me in a box. I'm like, okay, you're the non-box guy. Which one are you? He's the non-box guy. Yeah. So what's funny is the Enneagram. So we did the Enneagram before a lot of research came out of people saying like, it's a cultic or it's bad for Christians or all this stuff. I never went down that rabbit hole. I've never done my own research on it. So it's not like I'm sitting here with conviction saying one way or the other. It's funny, though, because the Enneagram is the only time when Elisha said, I feel so understood by a personality test. Wow. And I think it's because the test said you feel he was a four, something that said you feel misunderstood. And he was like, yes. Wait, so he's a four? Thank you. That's what I am too. Are you? That's shocking. Wait, I have to ask this. Now, see, the people that are like anti-Enneagram, I know, I know. First of all, I am not when it comes to it. I think it's like a fun, like, that's interesting type of a thing. It's not like every move I make. I'm like, did I do that because I'm a four? You know, did he do that because he's a seven or what? I've never done that. I almost I basically never even think about it unless like right now I'm bringing up just because it's fun. But so does he like think sad things are beautiful? Oh, yeah. That's so funny. So I do, too. Like, I could listen to a really intense, sad, like movie score. And I like I'm like, this is the most beautiful thing I've ever heard. It's like, and Vance is like, this is so depressing. So that's funny. But that's what they say is like a four thing. So you guys think it's fun, but you don't put a lot of weight on any type of personality test in the marriage, because I do think sometimes people can use their personality test, not necessarily Enneagram, but anything as an excuse for sin. Do you ever feel that way? Yes, definitely. I think you hit the nail on the head there. I think using personality tests and saying, well, this is my weakness, kind of using it as an excuse. Instead of like, well, I need to grow as a person. It's not like I just need to stay stuck in this box forever. I think there can be a ditch that we fall in. And Elisha's helped me see that because I was just personality plussed out. Like at my family, with my family, we talk personality tests, business tests, like everything is just test language. When we're home, Elisha's like, what on earth? Okay, one thing that's very different between you and I is I am very disorganized. I am not a scheduler. I am a person. I am a procrastinator to the max. I finished your interview questions last night. This is something that definitely bothers Vance. I think, I don't know that it, I would say this, it panics Vance. He's like, I'm just worried for your well-being. Like, how are you going to get all this done? I'm like, don't worry about it. Like, I will do it. And I always do. But he's like, I just feel like there's a better way to live than like, you know, just by the like skin of your teeth type of a thing. Like, it's like the night of, it's five o'clock and I'm like, oh, what should we have for dinner? I guess I should go to the store and figure it out. So. My question is, I know that you are, are really good with all of this stuff. It's kind of like what you're known for. When I ask people that are familiar with your podcast and your family, what should I ask Katie about? They're like, ask her about her whole like house running system. And you call it the, the get it all done club. The get it all done club. Yes. Is like my home management program that I started when we had a two-year-old, one-year-old and I don't know, infant. And then if kind of just added to over the years, but it's funny that you say that. Alex, because they say that people try to solve solutions to things that they struggle with. And I'm actually very much a deadline oriented person too. I think I created the get it all done club out of like, I need help. Like I have three little kids and I need systems. I feel like I'm drowning in motherhood. I would like to get a lot out of life and I don't just want it to be changing the diapers and going on playdates. Like there's other things I want to do with my life, but I need to get more organized to get there. And so I think a lot of. What the get it all done club is, is actually like helping my naturally disorganized state. If it had come natural, I don't know if I would have even known how to break things down to be able to teach it. So when you guys first got married, did you guys have really big differences in, in, you know, what is messy to you and things like that? So growing up, I like had a super messy room and things like that. I knew I didn't want a super messy house. My mom was really good about keeping the house clean. So I think like when I started. started managing my own home, I just thought like, oh, it always needs to be clean before I go to bed. Like that was always her rule. Like don't wake up to a dirty house. So I think I had seen things that my mom did, but Elisha was super gracious because he's like not the husband to come home and just drop his pants on the floor. You know, like he puts everything away. So it would bother him if there were dishes left in the sink. And I was like, oh, I like tidied the rest of the house, but like, don't look in the laundry room. Don't look in the sink. You know, I had my like hidey holes where I'd put stuff. So I think realizing that he's very affirmative when I do clean the house. So that's a big positive motivator. Cause I think some husbands come home, they like don't notice stuff. And Elisha's like, oh my goodness. You know, he came home last night. This house is so clean. Thank you so much. Whoa. The bathroom's so clean. Like talk about a motivator for a wife, you know, you noticed. One thing that is going to be a total culture shock for me. And I'm thinking about this with, with getting married. So I'm 33 and I, I, you know, this is my first time being married. And so this is a long time I moved out, you know, very, very early twenties. I've been on my own for a long time. I put things where I want. I, you know, do dishes when I want, I cook when I want. Sometimes I just want to have chips and salsa for dinner and I just have girl dinner. You know what I'm saying? So this idea of like, we're going to get married, we're going to go on our honeymoon and then we're going to come back and we're living together because we obviously we don't live together now. And I just feel like I'm going to be like, this is so weird. How do I even begin like starting some kind of routine to make sure that I'm doing a good job at, you know, I'm doing a good job at, you know, I'm doing a good job at making my house a home and making it peaceful and not overwhelming and cluttered and organized when I, you know, I'm only used to taking care of me. You have more experience with managing a home than I did when I got married, you know, having lived out on your own. I think something that's really helpful for couples and that I found in my marriage is asking your spouse, okay, what's your prime mover? So what is the one thing that I can do that makes the house feel or what's the one thing that I can do that makes the house feel clean to you and you feel like you can unwind? Because again, like I said, the laundry and the dishes were not that for me. I was like, I want a tidy living room. I feel like those questions are even great to ask even if you've been married for a while. Oh, yes. If you've been married for 20 years, just to check in and asking your husband or whatever, you know, hey, what what is it for you that like you come home if this is done, like you feel really great. I think that's a really good. It's really nice to be like pick one or two things. And I think a lot of moms feel this that have, you know, four or five, six kids or in the thick of it with little toddlers. And they're like, I can't do everything. They feel like they're dropping the ball. And it's like, well, just you know what matters to you. Pick one space that matters to you. Maybe it's your bedroom, whatever it is, your bathroom. And then ask your husband, what's the one thing I can do for you? I'm in an overwhelmed state right now. And then I think he can understand, oh, she's doing this out of love for me. Even if the rest of the house is a disaster, she did this specific thing for me to make me feel at home and at peace here. And so I pressure off whoever's managing the home. And it also lets your spouse know you're trying, even if it's in a busy, overwhelming season and they can feel loved. Any other things like when it comes to, I don't know, coming up with chore lists and or grocery planning or anything like that? You know, I'm still on the like Walmart to show up at my door, drop off my groceries thing. You guys here in Arizona, you have like incredible grocery stores and all that. I might enjoy going out a little bit more if I can. Vance loves to go to stuff like that. He's obsessed with it. Because I said that before. I was like, why don't I just order groceries? Like that would just make things so much easier. And he's just like, no, he loves being at the grocery. So I'm like, that's fine. If he wants to take on that chore, then great. As long as I don't have to do it, I don't really mind, you know, as long as it's getting done. How can you be sure as a wife not to micromanage your husband? Because you know what I find myself doing is like, hey, have you made that eye doctor appointment? Hey, did you make that eye doctor appointment? And it's like, I don't want to be that naggy wife. That's, you know, a constant dripping faucet. So when you ask something that's not getting done, but you know, it's important to do. How'd you handle that when you first got married? Okay, so this is another, but this is like my grandma's advice. Okay, my grandma told my mom, my mom told me so my mom was married to a guy that was younger than still is. He's still younger. And he hadn't really he my dad was really irresponsible. And so she called my grandma and she's like, Chad doesn't pay the electrical bill. Like he always forgets about the electrical bill getting paid. And my grandma said, Well, light a candle. And I think that's just great advice. Like, when you you can make the most of it and have a great time. Or like, and then next time he's going to pay the bill, probably if you let the lights turn out, aren't the lights turning on? And you're like, Well, I don't know, I guess the building paid by here. Let's light some candles. It'll be very romantic. Dinner. Exactly. And just like, you know, the embarrassment of that would make him be like, okay, I'm going to make sure this doesn't happen again. But I think for something that matter to me that they haven't shown up as a big deal to Elisha, like, you know, you mentioned appointments, like he hates going to the dentist, or he had like this skin thing that needed to get dealt with with the dermatologist. I just put it on my to do list. Okay, so we're making the appointment for them and say, Hey, you got an appointment here this day. Yeah, like if it's something that's really irking me that I can do, it's kind of like, you know what, I can do this, you apparently don't think it's a big deal. So I could take it on myself. And then yeah, because it's like, he's just gonna have different priorities. And so sometimes if I'm making something a really big priority for me, I'm just like, well, I just maybe I should just do it. Okay. And then what about tasks around the house? I hear this from wives all the time of how annoying it is to ask your husband, you know, 100 times, can you please take the trash out? For example, how do you handle things like that? Elisha was raised to take the trash out. It's like, he's a obsessed with taking the trash out. I never have to. But what's funny is some of my sister's husbands, their husbands don't do things like that. Or like they don't mow the lawn or they don't do maybe the stereotypical like husband duties. And maybe it's from growing up in a family where we're primarily girls, we just did the thing, you know, and so I don't think it's the end of the world to like, take your own trash out or just, you know, do things I feel like you can petition your husband be like, Hey, this would mean a lot to me. If you could do this thing, because it's uncomfortable, or it's a stinky job or whatever. But some things, it's just not that big of a deal to just do. If it's never going to hit their radar, like some guys are just not going to notice the trash is overflowing long after it's been bugging you, you know, and so it's like, either when they come home being like, Hey, hon, the trash is overflowing. Would you mind taking it out? Like, they might just need you to ask in that moment, they're never going to be, you know, just notice it when you do. And I think that's something in marriage that, is really easy to do. It's just if we want something done, just ask for it in the moment. And don't feel like I've told you this 100 times, you know, just being like a whole, it's never gonna be a pain point to them. So if it's a pain point to you, just ask, and they'll be like, Oh, sure, no problem. Let's talk about breakfast in America, which is essentially dessert marketed to children. You wake up, you pour a bowl of something that's been engineered in a lab by a man named Greg, who was born in 2004. And you're like, this is a great way to start the day. Meanwhile, it's loaded with pesticides, refined sugar, artificial dyes, basically a chemistry set with a cartoon bird on the front. So you don't ask questions. And even the healthy cereals. Oh, don't even get me started. It's like now with ancient grains. Okay, great. Still poison. You walk into the store, you're like, I'm not buying junk cereal. I'm getting Cheerios. I'm a good person. Let's talk about Cheerios. You're eating 729 parts per billion of glyphosate. Oh, and if you really want to treat yourself, how about Honey Nut Cheerios? Over $800. This is why Lovebird exists. Lovebird is a cereal brand that was invented by a dad who worked in big food. And he was like, I'm not feeding this garbage to my kid anymore, which is the most radical thing you can do in this country. Care. Lovebird took out all the fake stuff, no synthetic pesticides, no refined sugar, no weird lab ingredients and replaced it with actual food. 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So you can email them, find their info on their website, and tell them about your kid's school, and they'll send cereal for free, which is insane because they're basically losing money just to fix the system. These are the types of companies that I sponsor on my show, okay? So now do you understand? I am so picky. I want the game changers. I want the real parents making a difference. You can grab Lovebird at a grocery store near you, but if you want 20% off, go to lovebirdfoods.com, use code ALEX20. That's code ALEX20 for 20% off at lovebirdfoods.com. Code ALEX20 at lovebirdfoods.com. Summer makeup in September is like keeping your 4th of July decorations up until Halloween. At some point, we have to accept that the season has changed, and one of the biggest beauty shifts for fall is skin that looks expensive and hydrated, not aggressively matte and also not glazed like a Krispy Kreme donut. Think healthy, polished. You know, I drink bone broth and own cashmere. 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So if you've been needing to stock up, this is a great time. adelenaturalcosmetics.com, code CULTUREAPOTHECARY this month only. adelenaturalcosmetics.com, CULTUREAPOTHECARY for 20% off whether you are a first-time customer or long-time. You're really big on creating what you call a rhythm in the home as opposed to like a strict schedule. What does that look like? Rhythms, I think children really like to know what they can expect. And so when you aren't going on exact times, that gives you freedom to be out later or, you know, to shift things around, but kids still know what to expect. So I think I like the rhythms of, you know, my morning rhythm, getting up in the morning. Breakfast is always the same for the kids. They know we're going to have school time in the morning and then lunch, and they're always going to go down for a nap. So like, even if we come home from something at one in the afternoon or two in the afternoon, and they're used to going down, for a nap, say at one o'clock, they still know we're going to eat lunch and you're going to go down for a rest time. You know, so there's certain things with rhythms. Maybe we aren't doing bedtime exactly at seven because people are over. And so now it's nine, but we're still going to go through our bedtime routine. So I like things they can count on. I've been with those families where, you know, their kid is supposed to be in bed. Their baby is supposed to go to bed at 645. Okay. And we're at dinner and the dinner, it's 615 and it's taking a little bit long and we still haven't eaten. And then we still have to drive home. And they've literally gotten up in the middle of waiting for the food and said, well, I guess we're telling our waiter we got to go because it's taking too long. And if our baby is not in bed at exactly 645, the whole schedule's off and all of this. And I'm just sitting there like, what? And I'm like, I don't know. I don't have kids. Maybe I'm crazy, but I'm just like, you can't, you know, adjust a smidge. I think that's smart to do the rhythm thing because with sleep training and everything, that kind of gives you a little wiggle room there too, right? Yeah, it totally does. Yeah, because I do sleep. But again, controversial on this show, I have to warn you. Oh yeah, I know. It's controversial on everything. No, I really thought it'd be half and half, like 98% of this audience co-sleeps. It's really fascinating. Sometime, like once I have kids, it'll be very, very interesting and juicy, I think, to have Vance on to share his opinions on that. He has the strongest opinions on baby sleep of anyone I know. And he literally brought it up on the first date. That's how passionate he is about it. I need to ask. I need to ask Vance about his opinions on baby sleep. You should ask him tonight at dinner because it's really funny. But no, I mean, and it makes sense. Look, he's one of the youngest kids in a family of 10. You know, you guys all have big families. He's watched everybody raise their kids and gets to sit in on all the conversations. What's working? What isn't? What do we do? What do we do? And so he's just picked up on so much stuff with child rearing, you know? So he's got his little, he's got his ideas. It's so funny. I like to say like the first year of a child's life, everyone is just cutthroat about, what you do with your child. Like it is going to set them up to like succeed as a human or totally fail. Like it's like, it feels like a salvific issue almost. And then you like get out of those years and you're like, you know what? I meet all my friends and I really can't point to which one was sleep trained and which one co-slept or who had a binky and who sucked their thumb, you know? So it's like, what age were you potty trained? Yeah, that's a good point. And I think, you know, that should lighten people to hear that other moms that are in the thick of those little years, like one wrong move, one 15 minute late bedtime and I've messed them up. They're not going to college now, you know? I think that's great. I think that's really encouraging and just like a sweet reminder. What does it mean to simplify the home before optimizing the home? Well, I think sometimes we can just try to optimize all our piles of clutter and move them from one place to the next place to the next place when maybe they just shouldn't be there at all. So when you pare things down, to what you actually use on a regular basis, then it's a lot easier to organize that and label that and take care of it. Everything that you bring into your home becomes a maintenance issue. And so I just think that instead of seeing things as, oh, this is going to make my life easier, this is going to make my life easier, kind of looking at it as how much work is it going to take to maintain this item once it's brought into my home? That really helps me simplify on the front end before. Again, don't opt out. Don't optimize stuff that you're just going to end up getting rid of. You know what I think is interesting about the Vogtberg families? I don't, obviously everybody has a ton of kids, but there's not a bunch of like junk toys. I don't know. It just seems this way to me. Like, it seems like everybody's pretty dialed in on like, okay, what's like a necessary toy to keep? Do you do that? Like with seven kids, almost seven kids, do you purge a lot of toys and like try to get rid of things and declutter often? Because I just imagine with families that big, you would be up to your eyes and eyeballs in junk if you didn't. - And toys, you know, what's funny is I think most often people have a purchasing problem, not a decluttering problem. And so if I was having to purge my toys all the time, I'd be like, okay, how are they getting here in the first place? Like when people on YouTube are doing like another decluttering video, I'm like, well, how can you keep doing these decluttering videos? You should be out of things to declutter at this point. You know, you just keep buying more junk. So I think in our home, we're really big on builder toys. So, you know, we've got a box of Lego and a box of Lincoln logs and a box of mag tiles, and then we have a box of dress up. It's three bins and the dress up box. - So you live in Idaho. I mean, so that's a couple toys, but you live in Idaho. I mean, there are times where you've got snow up to your ears. So like, what do you do in the middle of many, many, many months of winter inside? Do they get bored with just those four toys? - You know, we do read a lot of books. They are very creative with the way they actually come up with using all those. They don't really get tired of them because I end up keeping, they have to ask to get one of them down. And so then it's like a fresh toy. It's kind of like my toy rotation system. They're all builder toys, but you pick which one you want to rotate. Then we actually taught them all to knit when they were like four and five. So they all knit, sit around and knit sweaters and not sweaters, scarves. And hats and things like that. And so that's fun for them. They also, and they all embroider. And it's funny to say this because they have one daughter, by the way, five boys. - I just need you to hear this and understand that I'm marrying into this family and guess what my talent is. I can lick my elbow. That's my talent. I don't play any instruments. I can't sew. I've never owned a cow. You know, it's just like, I suggested at the family Christmas concert, I was like, I can do the triangle. I could do that. And that's about it. So it's just so funny. - Well, I don't think any of us can lick our elbow. I mean, I don't know. That's pretty cool, Alex. - So that's what I bring to the table. So your oldest daughter is going to have to teach me how to knit. I do want to learn. Some of these things I think is fun. And honestly, I'm really excited. So I have no nieces and nephews. I have one little brother who doesn't have kids. And so I am so excited to be marrying into a family with all of these kids that are so smart and creative and funny. And I'm like, I think it'd be great to sit down with all the nieces and be like, teach Aunt Alex, please. How to knit a hat. Like, I've never done it. And I think it'll be fun to have some six-year-old schooling me. - Oh, you're such a fun aunt. I like see you with all the nieces and I'm just like, wow. Like, I need to be more like Alex. - What? Listen, I'm just, I'm barely, I'm just trying to learn names at this point still. So we're getting there. I'm doing pretty good. - Oh yeah, you're crushing it. - Why is it important as a wife and a mom to make sure that your home is not just Instagram aesthetic, but that your home is useful? - Something that is interesting is I feel like our homes have become very utilitarian, almost to a fault. So I get the desire of wanting things to look beautiful. It's funny because I was just talking with a couple of Vance's sisters. Why do all house brooms have to be bright green? You know, it's like you go to the store to try to find a broom that you're gonna use every day. And it's just like green, you know? - And why is that? - I don't know. - I've never thought of that till you said that. - It's like, is it gonna, is it just gonna make you hate your job? So like, I have got out. And what's funny is I'm not on Instagram anymore, but like I have the most lovely like brown handmade broom and I just love sleeping with it. And everyone who comes to my home is like, I love your broom. - Would you get it from farmer's market or something? - No, it's like online, some urban natural something. - It's probably better because of the bristles plastic. - No, yeah, the bristles are like natural fibers. - And that's good 'cause you know what people don't ever think about when you're sweeping with those plastic brooms? - That's, you're still sweeping microplastics everywhere. I mean, this is a Maha show, you know? So I think you're ahead of the game. Now everyone's gonna wanna link. - Everything in our kitchen. So Elisha and I lived in a tent before we moved into the house that we are in. - I'm sorry, what? With six children? - With, yeah, I was pregnant with our sixth. - You lived in a tent? - In a canvas wall tent for six months in North Idaho. - Wow, now see, we could have done a whole podcast on this. I didn't know this. - Yes, it was, it was a life experience. Yeah, we were off-grid. and yeah, we did it on our property while we were building. How long? It was six months, and we like cooked on a wood stove, and it was very like Little House on the Prairie. I lost a lot of hair over it, but it was a great experience too. I have so many questions that probably aren't appropriate for the podcast, but I just am like, my mind is spinning of like how this is possible. Anyway, so you're living in the tent. Yes, and so we didn't have a lot of stuff when we moved into our new home, and so it was a time to really thoughtfully curate, hey, what are the plates that I want to use every day, you know, and enjoy taking out, or what are the cups that I want to use? And what's funny is you don't actually spend a lot more on expense, but you enjoy the process. I think so often we've dumbed down things in our laundry room, things in our kitchen to like just get it done, just utilitarian, and I do think when we're trying to make something aesthetic for someone else's benefit, we still don't get the joy out of it, but. When I make something aesthetic for my benefit, you know, and I get to use my wooden spoon, I get to use the copper strainer that I love, like I have so much more fun working in my home with these things that can be utilitarian and beautiful too. Yeah, I think you make a good point, and something that modern society has really lost sight of, in my opinion, is making things beautiful. When it's something as simple as architecture, or even the buildings that we send our kids, you know, if you're choosing to sell them, you're going to send your kid to traditional school. The buildings that they're sent to are so ugly and depressing. There's no natural light. Everything is stark white or millennial gray, which I can't stand. So like, it's not inspiring. And I like your point of like, even those little things of choosing the type of spoon you want to cook with every day, or the type of broom you're going to sweep your kitchen with, very inexpensive, minor things that add a little bit of beauty to mundane activities, probably does a lot for your attitude, as a wife too. Oh, yeah, absolutely. I love doing tasks that would probably I would have seen as like chores or drudgery or things before. It's like, oh, I really like looking at this stuff. It's some of my favorite things. Yeah, I have never cooked for more than two people. Every apartment I've had, it's always been like a very small like bistro set or just, you know, two bar stools. I've never had a big kitchen table. So I've never hosted big parties. I come from a very small family. So one thing that I'm literally so panicked about with marrying Van, is that I've never had a big kitchen table. So one thing that I'm literally so panicked about with marrying Van, is I'm like, oh, my gosh, I have to figure out how to host like 60 people in my home. Now, how in the world? You grew up in a big family. So did Elisha. I know Vance is so helpful. He's an amazing cook. He already kind of has this down of like how to, you know, maximize recipes to feed a lot of people. But I don't know. What tips do you have for me for hosting now all of these new Vogtberg family members I'm inheriting? Well, I think it's impressive. You already have the vision of hosting everybody because when I got married, I was like, I don't want to have a whole family. Yeah, but I do think sometimes we were in a really small space and just not letting that inhibit you. You know, people love to come over and sit on the ground or whatever. But something that I've learned later that has been really helpful is setting stuff out when you have kids and people that get like irritable with low blood sugar. Setting, just having things to set out while you're making the meal. I feel like really. It really takes the pressure off and it allows parents like if you're making a meal and their kids don't like the meal to have alternatives for their kids. So something as simple as like mandarin oranges, chopped up watermelon or chips and salsa or, you know, I often do like grapes, like kind of a charcuterie board before breakfast. But I just feel like that really takes the edge off and then takes the pressure off of me to try to get the meal together. And early on, I mean, I couldn't cook anything, Alex. When we got married. You couldn't cook? Oh, no. I'm shocked by this. Oh, yeah. Does your mom cook? Yes. She's a fantastic cook. So you just not like it or. I didn't see any reason to learn how to cook. See, that's how I was. Yeah. Yeah. My mom's great. She's a great cook. And then my the three sisters below me were excellent cooks and they'd all fight over cooking dinner. And my mom was like, Katie, you have to learn how to cook. And I'm like, I don't want to like bagels and cream cheese are enough for me. That's right. Yeah. No, I relate to that so much. I only know how to cook because during the pandemic, I got red pilled on all the health stuff. Completely changed my life. Because all I did was go to Chick-fil-A, go through the drive through multiple times a week. Or I did, you know, pigs in a blanket frozen like from a box. Disgusting. That's like literally what my dinner was for years. And so during the pandemic, I got totally mind blown by all the stuff I was learning about why we are so sick, where our food comes from, how the quality of food can be like medicine to your body, all these things. So I bought myself a subscription to a, you know, a box that gives you. The recipe and the produce and the meat and you just put it together like a step-by-step picture direction. Oh, yeah. And so that's how I taught myself how to cook. And I'm like, I don't know how old were we. When was this? I don't know. I was like 27 or something. And this is how I learned. So that was way late in the game. I wish I would have learned a lot earlier. So at least I know how to cook, but I have to follow the recipe exactly. Okay. Yeah. So what's funny is I, yeah, I didn't, I went from not knowing how to cook. We did like Home Chef back in the day. We're like, I still have some of the recipes. You know, I just buy my own. I just buy my own ingredients and make some of my favorite pizzas and stuff now come from them. So, but then I just went to straight like dump and go cooking. Like I found like I enjoyed that way more not following a recipe. But like when we had people over, it was like spaghetti with gluten-free noodles or tacos, you know, taco bar. And that is like, those are my two recipes we were making for crowds. That's easy. Yeah. I love when people say, I don't take creatine because I'm not trying to look like The Rock. Really? Neither am I. By that logic, I shouldn't drink water because I'm not trying to become a whale. People hear the word creatine and then they start picturing some guy named Blade screaming at a squat rack while dry scooping pre-workout and punching drywall. Meanwhile, there's actually a ton of research looking at creatine, not just for physical performance, but for cognitive function and mood too. At this point, I'm interested in anything that helps me remember why I walked into the kitchen. That's why I started taking Puree Creatine Plus. What caught my attention is that. They combine 5 grams of creatine monohydrate with 400 milligrams of taurine in every serving. 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Birthright.co, code ALEX. Your hormones are communicating, so perhaps we should stop responding exclusively with iced coffee. That's Birthright.co, code ALEX for 15% off. Birthright.co, code ALEX for 15% off. The best hormonal supplement, prenatals, all the things. This is the brand I recommend. I have like quick hit questions of just, I think people are interested in big families, how you guys like run your lives on a day-to-day basis, what it's really like. So what time does your day on average start? To be honest, I have two different start times. My, depending on where I'm at in a pregnancy, my 5 o'clock start time and my 6.30 start time. It's like when I'm well-rested, like I'm in a second trimester right now, I feel great. 5 o'clock is a really decent time for me to get up and I can get an hour of work done, like computer work done before the kids get up and I can get in a 30-minute workout. So those are the two things that suffer if I get up at 6.30 because I start and I just have like 30 minutes to do Bible time and get dressed for the day before the kids start. But we do have a, the kids aren't allowed to come out of their rooms until 7 and summer and 7.30 in winter. Do you guys do that colored alarm clock thing? We did with the little guys back in the day. And now, you know, there's enough big kids in the room that have watches. Yeah. So they know how to tell time. So when Vance and I first started dating and we were talking about like ideas of how we want to raise kids and I was like, I just know you and I know that you've got some like issues. interesting things that you've picked up on from your family and tell me something That you've seen your siblings do that you really like. That you want us to do. And he's like, there's this color-coded alarm clock that's like red and green. And when it's time that they're allowed to come out of their rooms, then it'll go green. And then they know they can come out. But they cannot come out, even if they're awake, until that goes green. So that it gives mommy and daddy time to do devotions. Have quiet time together. Start breakfast. Whatever it is you like to do. And I was like, that's great. Because I'd never heard of that. So you guys are one of the families that use that. Yes, Mella. She's like an old friend. So we've used Mella for years and years. Okay, I love that. Do you make your bed every day? I do. Yes. Who usually wakes up first between you and Elisha? I'd say we're on the same schedule. On weekends, we differ. He usually lets me sleep in one day. And I let him sleep in one day. What is the most important to you to get done before you have breakfast? Reading my Bible. Yeah, that's really it. I mean, if I'm going into the day in my pajamas, that's fine. I'll get dressed after the breakfast rush. Do you meal plan every week? I meal plan dinners. I love breakfasts, so they're easy to cook. And my kids love making breakfasts. And then lunches are usually just I cook extra meat the night before, and then I can put that on a salad or in a tortilla for lunches. Do you grocery shop once a week or multiple times a week? I guess you said you do delivery. I do delivery. I do it once a week. And then I do like a big Azure haul for like all my raw cheese and grains and stuff like that. Love them. Probably once a quarter. Honestly. And then Costco's probably once a quarter too. What is always in your freezer to make life easier? I would just say frozen meat. Most of my freezer is just like ground beef, fish and chicken, which is nice to have those things on hand. But I mean, I'm the queen for like putting the frozen ground beef in the pan and scraping it. So I can't say it makes my life easier. That's great. Okay. When I first met, actually, you might have been sitting there. When I first met Vance's mom, one of the questions I was dying to ask with just raising 10 kids was about how she does laundry. And I was just blown away. I was like, tell me how you kept up with it. You know, because I'm just imagining piles and piles and piles if you go a couple of days. So what is your all's laundry philosophy? Are you doing it every day, all day? Because that's what she said she did. I love my laundry system. So I don't have a folding room or a folding table in my laundry room. I hated seeing piles of laundry like on. Beds and couches and folding tables. And so I actually have all my kids clothes in the laundry room. They're stored there like it's their dressers. Oh, yeah. So I have a bunch of wicker baskets. So each child and very minimal with my kids clothes, because that's the biggest thing that cuts down on laundry is just not having a lot of inventory. And so they have enough outfits for a week. Max. So my kids, it's like they can go three days. Yeah. I need a. To wash. I have two outfits out that hang up on a rack that are their Sunday or nice like town clothes. I guess we live out in the middle of nowhere, so it's like I know they're always going to pants in a nice shirt for church or something, even if I'm behind on laundry, because those are those are kept out of the regular bins. And so it's really nice because I just I wash a load in the morning right when I get up, I throw in a load of laundry and then I just take whatever's in the dryer and chuck it in. And all the kids little wicker baskets. They look really cute. It looks like a French laundry system. I think it's cuter than like bins. Yeah, but it's still the same idea. I don't fold anybody's clothes and and then it's done in like four minutes. I've thrown in a load and put away a load. You don't fold just because their kids clothes and it doesn't matter if they're a little wrinkled or whatever. They're just playing. Yeah, you know, like they're cotton T-shirts and their jeans or my daughter's dresses. It's like they aren't. They don't need to be. They're folded, I guess. And then my kids dig through their stuff anyways. Yeah, this is a brilliant life hack. It makes laundry so easy. This is really I love this idea. People should copy that for sure. Or do hang their Sunday clothes. Do you do deep cleans once a month or constant small cleans? I relate with you saying, hey, I'm a deadline person. Like I have to have a reason to clean my toilets. Somebody's coming over. Yes. So I deep clean toilets when someone's coming over or our kids do sports a couple nights a week. My big kids. I have the little kids. They're home. And my deadline is just kind of like Elisha coming home, I guess. And I deep clean the house then. And so that's when I do bathrooms and floors and things like that. So maybe once or twice a week, I do a deep clean when he's gone. Who owns the family calendar? And is it digital or paper? So we have this calendar we love. It came from my dad because he used it for a long time. It's called the Big A Calendar. Actually, it's just a giant plastic year at a glance calendar. It is not. Cute. But anyways, we put it up in our pantry and Elisha and I dry erase everything on there. What age do chores start with your kids? As soon as they love to be included. So, you know, maybe 18 months or two years old. When it comes to having guests over, what are you willing to be imperfect? I mean, my whole house is probably imperfect. I did design it with that in mind in terms of like having wooden baseboards, like I hate cleaning baseboards. So it's like when they're wood, no one knows. It's like it's rusted. You know, who cares about the dust? So, I mean, you know, with the whole Maha thing, though, you know, dust is a big deal. So I should probably be more on top of my dusting. I've had a guest on that talked about vacuuming your walls. Okay. Yeah. So that's next level. I would say my walls in general. I don't always get to washing the walls and living out in the country. They get dirty. And then I would say dusting. What is something that you've stopped caring about that made your home dramatically happier? I don't know if I could say. I've stopped caring about something like I feel like just teaching the children expectations, walking them through. Because sometimes I'll get very frustrated. Like, why are the shoes everywhere? And then actually sitting down like I haven't taught you this. So this is the new expectation. Here's where I expect your stuff to be. And teaching them systems has really helped me. So I don't know if that's not really letting go of something. But it's bringing the. Kids into training them on things that irk me. How much of the culture in your home kind of just happened naturally with you and Elisha's marriage? And how much did you guys intentionally create? I think the biggest things that we intentionally created were our rest times and our family. We've intentionally created a few rhythms that are very specific. I would say almost everything has been pretty intentional, actually. When I go through like even things that we enjoy, like we both enjoy literature. But it's like we've been intentional to curate. Our libraries, you know, and have physical books around the house. And so even though there's things that we both naturally are interested in or same with like his music, like Elisha loves music. But we've had to be intentional to teach the kids and have the instruments out and invest. And, you know, so I don't think very much has come just. I mean, we'll find out what came naturally when our kids are older and say this is what our home was like. You know, but I feel like we've had to intentionally create most of it. Every family, even even amongst the vote. Bergs has, you know, different parenting styles, different personalities, opinions. How do you disagree with family members while still staying close? We're figuring this out every year more, I think, because as more people marry into the family, there's more variation within the family, which is a real gift. And it's really your I am the black sheep. You're hardly the black sheep. I wouldn't know. I'm like, I wouldn't know who that was. But I think it's really wonderful. Because you get all these different opinions and you get out of this group think mentality and people have to start giving credence to other people's opinions or lifestyles or, you know, ideas that they have and cultures that they want to create. And so I think it's a growing experience. I think at least for Elisha and I, there's some things like our list of just don't bring it up. Things has gotten a lot longer. This is probably just immaturity, but it's like, you know, you grew up in a family years. You used to. Like, it's my family. I can say whatever I want, you know. And then you start realizing, like, they've created their own families. They've created their own families. And that's wonderful. And we get total jurisdiction over creating our family. And so let's just pour into that. And, like, I don't think disagreements come up that often because it's just kind of like, well, it's your prerogative and like different families value different things. And so just getting to enjoy your nieces and nephews and their family cultures for what they are and then just kind of. Focusing on our own. Yeah. Speaking of the nieces and nephews, you're about to have the 40th grandchild in the family, which is crazy. Milestone. So 25 years from now, what do you hope the next generation of Vogtberg cousins says about growing up together? Well, I think I just want them to look back and be like, remember that one time, you know, like give them enough opportunities of hanging out together. Our kids are the only ones that don't live right now in in Centralia. And then, you know, you guys are we're kind of grateful you guys are here in Arizona. Because speaking of black sheep, it makes us feel better not living with the family. Once we have kids is, you know, that our kids are also going to be like kind of out and not as tight knit with them because everybody else lives together in the same area. So we're like, hey, summers, we're just shipping them up there. You guys are you guys are good with grandma and grandpa for the next month. We'll see you later. Just so they have that time. Yeah. And it is so fun, though. When we do bring our kids over, when kids come and visit us, you know, they're just like best friends and have all these wonderful memories together. So I just want to provide that opportunity. What is something new that your family is embarking on that you're really excited about? Well, actually, we've only done online business since being married. Elisha and I started our first business, Votberg Music Academy, when we were dating. So I feel like I really went out on a limb there and was like, yeah, let's call it your last name. But we're opening our first brick and mortar music school in Hayden, Idaho this fall. So we're excited. It's like a whole new experience, like a lease and a sign and designing the space. And so I'm really excited to have like in-person students again. What is Votberg Music Academy? Because my audience may not know this. Yeah, Votberg Music Academy. After Elisha grew up in a family band and his parents spent thousands of dollars every month, you know, taking the kids to lessons and all that. And I grew up. I grew up in a musical family as well. Although I, you know, I don't call myself a musician since being married to a Votberg. I'm like, forget that. And we wanted to make music lessons affordable for families. And so we started Votberg Music Academy where students, families learn together. So families might pay, you know, 40 something dollars for a monthly piano teacher online and all their kids can take from the same teacher. So instead of paying per child, they just pay a one-year fee. And so we started Votberg Music Academy. And so we started Votberg Music Academy.