‘House of the Dragon’ Season 3, Episode 7 Reactions | Talk the Thrones

Hello, and welcome to Talk the Thrones. My name is Chris Ryan. I am an editor at TheRinger.com. I'm joined, as always, by Joanna Robinson and our dim but ambitious Dornish friend, Mallory Rubin. We are here to break down the seventh and penultimate episode of House of the Dragon Season 3, and we will do so right after this. Talk the Thrones is a House of R production in very many ways. You know what I mean? Like, I'm here, but by the grace of you two. Yes. And you can listen to House of R Go Deep on this episode on Tuesdays, correct? Correct. Yeah, sometimes. I, when you watch this, Sometimes once. When you listen to this, we'll be on a lake. So, Eddie and I are not talking about this episode. Oh, shit. You want the uncut, raw CR takes on this. Damn, okay. You can only get it on House of R. Wow. And I will start my recap of this episode, the seventh episode, right about now. So, I'm going to go ahead and do this by character this time. Okay. Because I, you know, chronologically going through the episode, there's moments that are important, obviously, but I thought this was a bit of a table setter, a step up from last week, which I suppose we were somewhat critical of. But, you know, exciting stuff brewing. Oh, yeah. Tumbleton in the balance. Let's start with Allison, who arrives at Heron Hall, has sex with her son, Amon, and then arrives again. You said arrives and not comes? I know. Well, I'm a little jumpy about making too many sexual jokes. Don't worry. We've got you covered. Shout out to the ghetto boys. Amon's mind is playing tricks on him. And he's a little freaked out by all the H-Hall voodoo flying around. As he greets Allison's bodyguard by stabbing him in the throat. Things just get more frosty from there, like an awkward dinner between Amon's mom and his girlfriend and an awkward cocktail hour where Allison poisons Amon with some berries that she found next to the body of her dead minder. Some berries. Amon collapses in Allison's arms as Allison seemingly escapes Heron Hall. Yeah. Okay. The nightshade payoff. Helena talking all season about the poison plan. I thought that was just, there were just some cool berries. I didn't know. Amon is out and about looking for Reyna, whose dragon has been spotted hither and yon out in the Vale. He finally finds her, but the reunion is interrupted by Rhaenyra and Adam's arrival. And there's a big standoff, an intergenerational family fight, basically like the Fish's episode of The Bear, but with dragons and Caraxes. Oh, yeah. Winds up fighting Sheepstealer with Rhaenyra at first condemning Reyna and saving her life and riding back to King's Landing. Rhaenyra is quite upset with Damon. Because she had thought this has all been handled and that Sheepstealer's rider rested comfortably in her room as a skull. Yeah, some merch. But she finds Solas in the arms of Mysaria. Indeed. Arms? Like a 30.11 assist game for Mysaria today. Literally, after an episode worth of scheming and whispering, Mysaria figures out the best way to a leader's heart is through their robes. And the two of them get down. Have they done this before? They've kissed. They've smooched. I thought they were having sex this whole time, but they really treated it as a monumental moment. Like a breakthrough. Yeah. Some other news and notes. Orman now has Corlys hostage and sends Alan his finger as proof. He has also been working behind the scenes to turn Ulf against Team Black. And it looks like offering the pub crawler Driftmark and the title of Lord of Tides will do the trick. Yeah. Honeywell, not good enough. Another knock for the bees. I can't wait till it ends. For House Beesbury. He's just like, he's like, ha! Fuck him. There is an army of 20,000 men marching on Zumbleton, so that is one thing Does it feel important on the eve of the finale? Orman might want to keep an eye on. About a day away. And also, Gwaine and Darren really starting to build a degree of skepticism about Orman's leadership and thinking he might be a fascist. This episode culminates with Laris, Aegon, and Tylan returning to Rook's Rest after finding the roads impassable and they decide to make a stand against an oncoming Rhaenyra-aligned army Mutants. with Aegon proclaiming his identity out loud for all to hear that it's this big moment and we're so happy for him because he believed in himself. Are we? That's right. Okay, character and an arc, yeah. And then the reason why this all works for him is because there's a giant fucking dragon that's not dead behind him. Sweet. Sunfire. No longer long in the dying. Sunfire lights up the opposition and announces a new old power in the game of the thrones, which is Aegon. Look at you, man. Sierra, did you identify with Orman when he said, what do you see in them anyway, the Targaryen element? Remember the other day on the watch when you were like, are there too many Targaryens in this show? I don't like to identify with anything Orman says. But kind of. Interesting. But I do, you know, like his point to Corlys I thought was very well taken, which is like, why are we working for them on behalf of their own self-mythology? Yeah, and then he had to be like, sorry, I forgot your wife was one of them. I should probably account for that real quick here. Can you. All your kin. Give me your finger while we're talking. Make sure it's the one with the easily identifiable ring. Do you think he took the ring off and sliced the finger and then put the ring back on? Or yeah, used a different finger entirely and then it's just like, oh, let's add the ring. I think Orman raised the cleaving knife in dramatic effect and then let other people handle all of the things that might smell. Okay, got it. There's one thing I didn't mention in the recap that I kind of did want to start with. Okay. One of my most memorable experiences podcasting with you during Game of Thrones is the hysteria surrounding Bran's visions. Oh yeah, sure. And the predictive nature of these visions and how you could maybe see where the show was self was going by breaking down these visions. Helena has two visions in this episode, correct? Yes. Like the one in the beginning where she's like petting her horse and stuff. Yes. And then the one at the end where winter comes. In between, Rhaenyra is like, what do your visions tell you of like. Yeah. Were the gods right? Are the gods right? Am I going to win? And she's like, I was watching the Russo brothers film The Gray Man, actually. You know what? It's actually not that bad now that I think about it. The Gray Man is better than a lot of like late period Netflix, Amazon. Oh yeah, Bars in Hell. Great. Do you think Helena enjoyed it? Gray Man? Yeah. Depends on what format she watched on. Gray Man's really supposed to be appreciated on like a wide screen possible a la The Odyssey. What did you make of either of Helena's visions? Which one do you think was more significant? And Helena the Dreamer, welcome to the party. Yeah. Okay, listen. Inside all of us there are a couple wolves and Helena is both a sheep girl and a dragon girl, right? And a chicken girl. Well, and a mom girl, I guess. So, I mean, a lot of this is about her longing to escape and to get a chicken farm and for her daughter who exists and her unborn child to be happy on a chicken farm with her. So that's in there. We saw Dreamfire for the first time. That's her dragon. And her own Dreamfire. Yeah. Her in riding leathers, like, looked unlike any Helena we've ever seen. So that's what I mean. It's just sort of like, it felt like this is a part of her even though she does not, she doesn't enjoy dragon riding. She doesn't want to be a part of it. But, like, to dream of herself in riding leathers on the back of her dragon I thought was really interesting. And, yeah, winter's coming. Last week, we noticed this after we talked to you when we did the deep dive. There's a couple scenes in last week's episode where actually you could see, like, snowflakes starting to fall. Really? Like, in the Agan, Thailand, Lara scene. Just, like, really, just a few are falling down. Meteorological question. Mm-hmm. Can you have winter without winter coming? Can you get a little bit of, like, frosty weather in Westeros without it being. No. Okay. It's coming or it's not. Well, because if I was, like, just a dude in Westeros and it started snowing. Like a Disclosure Day hail shower kind of thing? Well, more just, like, if you were just, like, a regular guy and it started snowing, like, would you just be like, holy shit, what is happening? Or would you be like, the Night King is coming? Well, no, no. It's not. It's not snow zombies every time, but it is a long season every time. And sometimes there are plagues and it can last years or at least a year or something like that. In this case, I will say last season when Jace went to the Wall to meet the Starks, right, Craig and Stark was like, hey, winter's coming because they love to say that, right? So he's like, I got a lot on my mind. Do you see all the snow around here? Yeah. But he's like, snow here means snow eventually down there. So, yeah, they've been experiencing autumn, but winter's on its way. Okay. So I like the combo in both dream sequences of something that feels potentially like escape. You know, the opening of the door, the Red Keep Courtyard in the first dream, the opening of the door, the bathing of the light, the gray mare. I think a pale horse is not like the subtlest symbol inside of a story. Inside of Game of Thrones, there are also a pale mare and Dany's storylines. There are a lot of associations there. But this idea of something opening, something you're seeking, but then also the doom. So it's this kind of mix of like the potential happy path and cat cataclysmic reckonings all around. I thought that the childbirth, and we move into the second dream, which is more loaded, the childbirth, the fact that the baby is immediately handed to a soldier, that tells us everything we need to know, male heir, right? Got to get rid of that kid right away. Right. To see Helena, given what Helena says about dragon riding and the conversation that she and Rhaenyra have about dragons and Viserys, which we should talk about in a second, to see Helena on Dreamfire and just get, we had glimpsed Dreamfire just in the distance when all of the dragons left Driftmark, left Lena's funeral, but not like this. So this was just a magnificent glimpse of the purple and the blue and the horns. And then, of course, to hear Helena, a character, because they're in the dragon pit, Helena's on dragon back, Dreamfire's looking, again, a door looking out. There is a crowd that is coming in, right? Storming in. Knights, soldiers, people. Common folk, I would say. And to hear Helena, a character who, when Aemon said last season, fly with me, you know, she said, I don't want to burn anyone. And we've heard her say, no beast shall be harmed. Helena is a peaceful creature, does not want to partake in the war, but also, yeah, also fears what the dragon power does to these Targaryens. To hear, even in this dream setting, Helena say Dracarys was so bone chilling. And you think about what it means to be a dragon dreamer in this line of Targaryens and what it does to you to see these things about other people, about yourself, about the realm. I just liked the idea that it was like, it's chilling, but I also just like the idea that it's part of her. That like, as gentle as Helena has been, there's a part of her that dreams of being on Dragonback and just burning anyone who's in her way. And that she's working to avoid that. And she's like, chicken farm, no. Refusing to partake. Think of a chicken farm. Think of a chicken farm, you know? The chicken farm with the two kids and the beautiful like cottage and then the way that the sun just kind of blots out like an eclipse. There is the, on the winter front, there's the, okay, the weather is changing immediacy of the winter is coming. The Kragan thing that Joe mentioned, but I thought that undeniably the rush of kind of the misty, foggy cloud was meant to evoke for Game of Thrones viewers. White Walkers. White Walkers. And then you have winters coming in two ways. What does it mean right now for winter to be coming during the dance in this moment in the canon? And then the prophetic doom that the entire show has started and operated against. Aegon's Song of Ice and Fire, this prophecy inherited down. The idea that Rhaenyra is saying to Helena was, will I prevail? Is it right? That's because of the prophecy. Like this all comes, this idea of being chosen and ordained, see smoke and Adam appearing to her. So how is a character like Helena receiving something like that in such a different way? Interesting to think about. I was wondering about Rhaenyra's compulsion to ask her in the first place. Is it a sign of her waning self-confidence? Is it that this is a prophecy that has been debated publicly or semi-publicly, but at least between her and Alicent? Well, there seems to be no fallout, at least from Damon talking about the small council. I know all those people were just like, I forgot what happened in the last meeting, but I really need to get back to the Harry Hall. Yeah, Harry Hall, tick-tock. Manderly pied-à-terre in King's Landing confirmed. Just smeared with shit. Tough one. Incredible Rhaenyra moment. She's like, what do you want me to do? This is great. I think that Rhaenyra, everything's been going wrong for Rhaenyra and she enumerates it inside of this episode where she's like, what did me doing, your plan get me, Miss Arya? Love of my people? No, not exactly. Everything going well? No. And so, yeah, everything's been going poorly for her. She's been betrayed in her own mind and in reality by Damon and so she's looking for people to affirm that she's on the right path, that the death of her children were worth it, that all of these things will turn out in her favor and if she doesn't get it from Helaena, a dreamer, she looks for it from Miss Arya. She demands Miss Arya tell her that she is, you know, the one chosen. And I remember when we first started covering this show talking about the love language and like Damon being a words of affirmation guy and this is such a words of affirmation Rhaenyra moment, she's desperate when she asks Helaena that. But also physical touch. Definitely also physical touch. She's so desperate when she asks Helaena to confirm that the lens through which she has been She grabs her by the arm every now and then. Yeah, and I mean, we've gotten a lot, multiple episodes in a row now of the like left forearm grab where that's where the Alicents use the dagger of prophecy to come out to cut Rhaenyra. The dagger is what Aemond uses to stab Sir Adrian. Like that's all connected to the prophecy. She sees it on the table, right? Yeah, exactly. Looks at it for a long time before going with the woman's weapon, poison. I literally wrote poison a woman's weapon in my notes. Say it, why would you not? It's Pavlovian at this point. But Miss Arya, who and Rhaenyra does call her out on this, is so nakedly projecting the things that she is saying about Damon while not wrong, to be clear, also all apply to her. And Rhaenyra is kind of like, like you haven't deceived me, right? But then Miss Arya says to her, Rhaenyra's like, am I worthy? And Miss Arya tells her what she wants to hear, right? But she tells her before even the are you worthy, am I worthy question, don't lose faith. You're on the precipice of a great victory. This is what she's looking for is affirmation and confirmation that she's doing the right thing. All she gets from everyone else is broken trust, questions, being undermined, deceived. But what I thought was really interesting is that so Miss Arya in that earlier scene when she's in front of the Iron Throne with Sylvie, who's the madam in the, in the, okay. Mother's milk. Yeah. So when Sylvie says, you know, you'll only ever be a whore here. Yeah. The way that Miss Arya then uses the tools of her trade, not just her body, but also like to flatter, cajole, like Rhaenyra, tell her exactly what she wants to hear and then sort of like sexually, you know, dominate or please her or whatever the case may be and just, she's like, well, I guess I might as well do exactly what I know how to do very well. She shoots her shot. She wants to be basically put in charge as like a shadow. Proxy. Proxy, regent, you know, working on behalf of Rhaenyra but certainly tired of Rhaenyra getting distracted at the big table and being like, well, what about Daemon? Where's he at? You know, she's like, focus. Yeah. I just thought it was interesting that Sylvie like, you know, means to insult her by saying, they'll only ever view you as a whore. And Miss Arya being like, okay, if that's the case, I might as well get what I need using the thing that I know how to use. Cool. Now do that in Miss Arya's accent. She actually does a fantastic Miss Arya. Rich words from the mouth of a Hightower. Again, tune into the deep dive. You can get hours of that. The, I thought it was interesting, the Sylvie and Miss Arya scene was a good reminder of how the show operates in like phases and degrees because Miss Arya with Rhaenyra, with Daemon at the small council conducts herself and positions herself as the voice of the small folk. And then Sylvie's there and is like, like, that's bullshit. I'm actually doing that. Right? And like, is it any truer for Sylvie than it actually was for Miss Arya? But every, how many people are just like saying that thing? Who is it actually true for? Miss Arya is a fascinating character because I think we've gotten many glimpses across the, the canon with her where she does and says something that feels sincere. Like when she and Rhaenyra first kissed in season two, episode six, that was in a stretch where Miss Arya was basically like pledging her allegiance to Rhaenyra. So once again, there was a link of the, you can rely on me. You can consider me a trusted advisor and let's hook up. But also as a way to get out of prison. No question. No question, yeah. The moment with Aemond and Sylvie before Aegon burst in with his sycophantic friends and Aemond like had to insult, you know, insult Sylvie, had to, chose to insult Sylvie and barge off like one horse as good as another and she felt cast off. Just a side by him. He said, she's the one that he said to like, I do regret that business with Luke, right? And showed that vulnerable kind of repentant side, which I thought was also on display from Aemond and how he was talking to Alicent and that made it extra heartbreaking that she wasn't like, could we find a way forward here? Maybe I should just tell you what Rhaenyra sent me to do and we could work through it. It is often others who suffer the small folk like me. That's what Sylvie said to Aemond and then Sylvie became a part of the Massaria Diana Alinda plot to rally the small folk in season two for Rhaenyra against the Greens. But then when Sylvie petitioned Rhaenyra at the beginning of the season, it was a pretty naked challenge. Yeah. My queen who came to power as a champion of her people, a reminder of what they did to help her. So she has been very assured and bold in her convictions and pretty constant in the position. I think that's like a really good thing to point out because I don't know if like the casual viewer watching this show over the course of like years. Knows who she is. Knows who she is but also remembers every like little like tick of the box. That's why we have Mallory. Can I ask you guys about it? Oh, go ahead. Really quickly. I also think very intentionally the show is trying to nod to Varys and Littlefinger having a conversation in front of the Iron Throne. This idea of sort of these various strivers or masters of whispers or whoever you prefer and who are they working for their own personal ambition or for the people. No question. Another dream sequence of a sort. It happened when Aemond straight up nails his mom but it turns out it's actually Alice. It's incredible stuff. I was wondering who's dreaming? Or what is happening in that scene mechanically where is it like is it Alice taking on the form of Alice? When a man loves a woman. No, I know. And that woman happens to have also given birth to him. Was Aemond imagining that it was his mom? Was Alice taking on the form of his mom? Was that just two crazy kids? Well, here's my theory. Two crazy kids. Just trying to make it work? I think is similar to Damon where it's just sort of like Eamon is a bit in a sort of like waking dream state that she's keeping him hopped up on where would paste and is just sort of like he's having sex with her but he's envisioning this whole scene with his mom because he's on drugs he's mostly doing topless sword practice and just falling over tough one Blackfire is a heavy sword especially if you've been stabbed in the kidney maybe it's like having a donut on your bat though where you're like as soon as I take it off I'm gonna be able to kick ass at the bat speed and eggs and velo are on match how did you feel about Alice telling a prince of the realm to go chop wood I thought that was pretty sick he didn't appreciate it incredible temper tantrum but he did he did it he did it because and I genuinely believe this is the reason first of all he's in her thrall but more importantly we have to make sure we can map as many Eamon Harrenhal moments against Damon Harrenhal moments as possible and when Alice basically told Damon Wink Wink nod nod I know you dreamed about fucking your mom he was chopping wood yeah so we had to get that parallel the extent of the parallel here so Damon when he comes to if you will he's just like at the dining table with Simon Strong you know so there's a little bit of a difference there but the similarity extends not only to the fact that Damon dreamed he was fucking his mom Eamon dreamed he was fucking his mom their moms say the same things to them in these sex fantasies in these Harrenhal therapy sex fantasies if only you'd been quit wild if only you'd been born first my favorite son that was what Harrenhal vision dream Alyssa said to Damon how could I forsake my best and truest son the payoff of Alice saying you Targaryen boys all want the same thing which is not just to fuck your mom but for your mom to tell you that you're her favorite you're her best golden beautiful boy was so wonderful and I really liked I think it unlocks a lot of your it points toward your questions Chris I think are really valid of like how is the magic working exactly how much is meant to be a mystery is Harrenhal Alice giving Eamon because it happens exactly the way not the sex part but she arrives right after he has this vision she cups his cheek and says you're all I have left and he's like whoa and kind of pulls away because of the mirror moment for me it's that she's wearing the exact same thing that's bananas and then there's like Alice's how much does Alice know because she issues these very you know Eamon's like mind your dark thoughts right yeah she is like she's in a there's a fog of evil that surrounds her and she means to do you harm so Alice has a clarity about what Alicent is there to do but also is kind of like you're really fucking up what I'm trying to do here and feels a little bit thrown by it yeah she's like I'm sure your mom doesn't want to stay here the climate's not to her liking I didn't envision my future with you including your mom by the way that was so good really good how many couples wind up having that conversation you know incredible okay so Alicent's choice to poison him yeah a woman's weapon woman's weapon you're always saying that Chris yeah I couldn't remember and I did not review did Rhaenyra give her the explicit like I'm putting a hit out on Eamon go get him for me I thought it was to flush him out I think Adrian Redfort was supposed to kill Eamon okay right yeah the idea of the the the amount of guys with beards that you know their names and I'm like I don't know that guy by the way he's incredible because we've been talking since he debuted this season about how I said he I called him Harwin Strong Light and Joe very appropriately named him Harwin Weak for him to die at Harrenhal yeah nicely done I feel like the casting and the physical similarity was intentional also a big Redfort episode quite a big Redfort episode the um the the the plot from Rhaenyra was like okay you're saying that Eamon's there Vhagar isn't that means he's just a dude and a dude can be killed but if it's a familiar face a trusting face they can get closer so yeah she was sending Alicent there to ensure whether by her hand by Sir Adrian's hand that Eamon didn't make it out alive she's certainly considering the possibility that that will not work because when she agrees in a fit of frustration to allow Sabath with Frey to go to try to take Harrenhal she's like and then you can kind of check on like how the Eamon thing went for me as well right so she's like not she's like my last assassination plot didn't turn out maybe this one will work better I got a cruel threat scrawled on the kit that I had stolen from the Baratheons I have notes for both Alicent and Daemon in this episode which is just like stay a beat to make sure the person's dead right you know what I mean like and make sure he's not like going to a witch who might be able to kill him immediately I mean she's in the witchy workshop so he's gonna be fine it would seem she's like she's not worried at all not a lot of hate just idiot getting shot in the arm and going to the pit you're gonna be fine exactly you know Dr. Robbie I was as you guys know I bumped on like Rhaenyra sending Alicent there I thought that was just an odd choice for the character to make but I will say I thought these scenes with Alicent to Alicent Aemon were so fun to watch that even though I don't yeah even though I don't think it really made sense I'm kind of glad it happened and enjoyed watching the mommy bulls because I thought they were very entertaining you know we're not gonna spend a lot of time today talking about what we think is gonna happen to the finale Mal and I might talk about that a little bit more on the deep dive but like Alicent slipping out of Harrenhal in the dead of night alone to walk the king's road back to king's landing after this episode went out of its way and Kat said in the previous episode a lot of scary bad shit happens on the road on the king's road what are you gonna do I don't know is this Alicent storyline off book oh yeah it's all off book at this point honestly I was looking back at when she departed king's landing in the prior episode and there are definitely other guys with her oh so you think there are guys just down the road maybe but how many I agree with you I thought it felt very notable that Alice went out of her way maybe she was just like you're full of shit there's no way you just came here with this one guy and I know it right but maybe it's a like set up the possibility for us that horrors await I mean could she theoretically if I my photographic memory of your map is could she bump into Aegon she'd have to take a really weird road back yeah but now he has a dragon so I mean yeah who knows it's entirely possible county roads okay let's talk a little bit about dragon reservoir dragons fantastic everybody's like this you know oh yeah give me the hierarchy of dragon superiority in that scene in terms of like rep reputationally Caraxes is the baddest oh yeah I think so I don't think so no question I don't think so like what what's the metric here's well it's complicated right because there's age and there's experience and there's who's your rider and there's you know what's your temperament and that sort of stuff Caraxes has has the most is the most battle tested for sure no doubt has a nasty reputation right like nastiest blood worm fiercest of all young dragons in the dragon pit that's Caraxes so like definitely and is about 50 years old so like definitely that's true but Sheepstealer is like closer to a hundred years old and is completely wildest wild and feral yeah and the older the dragons get the bigger they can get and Sheepstealer is the biggest of those dragons right there and the tougher their hide gets and the hotter their fire gets so hence why Sheepstealer can walk off a Caraxes well throat shot I mean Sheepstealer takes some serious damage so did Cyrax three on one yeah so for me and I think your ranking is perfectly valid but for me I would say Sheepstealer just in terms of like size, age all this other stuff like that Caraxes right underneath because so battle tested so ferocious Seasmoke has also been to war that's Adam's dragon so I would and then with love and respect Cyrax who gets majorly pumped inside of this fight you know I know I know it was actually fun to see Cyrax out in the field in a fight though obviously I found it appalling that when they landed back at the dragon pit in King's Landing Rhaenyra was just like take Rhaena to her room and didn't like go pet her dragon or see if she's okay just because I'm not going to have the watch this week I think Emma Darcy is an extraordinary performer unbelievable I did not think her dragon acting was on par with some of her other work and I felt like in what respect the fact that she like got off bent over like she was getting out of the helicopter wasn't that the point it was like I thought that there was something about the way Rhaenyra was you know screaming this ends now the rage was just uncontainable but I thought there was almost something deliberately reptilian yeah about the the posture I think I think that's like a lot like there are a lot of tennis balls in that set you know you asked if you could say that because you usually reserve your harsher critiques for the watch yeah of women no I just want you to feel free to say whatever you want to say it wasn't even that harsh of a critique it was more just like I was like that it's been a minute since we've had dragons in the mix you know like they've been kind of seen in the distance for a minute now and so to have them all having a heavy dialogue scene yes and various actors acting in front of dragons yeah sure I think that was probably very technically difficult no question I I think that so this is a kind of this is a new thing this fight so it's not something we were expecting oh okay um I thought this was riveting yeah I thought it was pretty cool and for a few reasons and I think I on the the reason I have Caraxes first on the power scale is I think in book canon the age and just size of Sheepstealer would matter more but I think the show the way that the show deployed Sheepstealer at the gullet of like I'm scared because I'm in battle I think moves Sheepstealer down that said it was three to one at one point and Sheepstealer you thought it was like you thought it was like I'm scared I thought it was just sort of like You're like, oh, I'm going to do whatever the fuck I want to do. I'm Sheepstealer. It's interesting because Joe's kind of going off more advanced analytics than you're going off eye test. Exactly. Exactly. Just scouting in the old school way. What we have to do is rebuild Sheepstealer in the aggregate. Exactly. I thought that the, so, okay. Sheepstealer and Reyna are obviously, we can't in good faith say that they are part of Team Black. Because things went so wrong immediately at the gullet. Unaffiliated. Yeah, undeclared, unaffiliated, right? It's supposed to be for Jane of Arryn. Well, I wouldn't, I don't know if I would say, I've got some notes for Jane of Arryn as usual. The, at the end of the day, nobody in this scene is Team Green. And it is fucking carnage and chaos, right? So that is a crucial thing. Would you say the only thing that could tear the House of the Dragon apart is itself? I would say that. And I think that this was a great sequence to remind us of the opening note of the show. Especially in an episode where, you know, Missaria and Rhaenyra. Well, Lena and Rhaenyra. Viserys comes up time and time again, not only in terms of his style of rule, but in terms of how dragons change you, what the link is, how they alter you, what it does. This was a real sequence where you could see the way that the dragons were, and we've talked about this a lot on various pods. The dragons were channeling the emotion of their riders, but then the riders could not control them because the dragons don't listen. Because the illusion that we control, it's the idea that we control dragons is an illusion, which is the other opening note of the show. I just don't know. As well as the House of the Dragon tears down itself. I just don't. Like, Rhaena's pain at having to, like, leave Sheepstealer. Oh, that was sad. And especially when Bael is like, you'll start a new life. Forget your dragon. And Rhaena's like, no, thank you. But Rhaena's pain at having to leave Sheepstealer. But if we're like, let's finish it, then let's fucking finish it. And so for Daemon to be like, Adam, you take off with the queen. I'll take care of this. And then half-ass not take care of it. I was just like, what are we doing? Can I ask a quick question? Another question. Sure. Did I miss some frame of the show where Adam is with Bael? Does the, like, I might want to marry a very pretty princess one day. And she's like, oh, did you already hear about me and Alan? That was so tough for Adam. But then the next scene is he's with Rhaenyra. No, no, no. They go back to the small council and report on having spotted Sheepstealer. And then Rhaenyra takes Adam. Sometimes I hit pause and I'm, like, writing stuff down. She loves Adam. Her talisman. Really tough. For Adam in this scene. Absolutely brutal. I felt bad for him. And I hope that the brothers have a little bit of a war over Bael. I think that would be fun. That would be fun. The other thing that was important about this four-dragon fight, in addition to how quickly it got out of hand, how quickly the writers lost complete control of the situation. They also took, while not affiliated, they gravely injured a dragon that could have been on their team. Sheepstealer's a mess. Tries to fly, can't, kind of walks and shuffles off very badly. Injured. As Jo said, Syrax is really hurt. Caraxes was the least harm. Seasmoke took, like, a bite or two. But, I mean, this was, especially the number of, the tooth and claw, which is, yeah, the fire and blood description. The neck bite, which is how Vhagar killed Maelys. Like, we were on the line here of losing some dragons. I was like, is Syrax going to die right now? Like, no way. I had the same thought, which would have been obviously shocking. But it was, I was, yeah, it was perilous. And that's the other thing. It is no easy thing for a man to be a dragon slayer. But dragons can kill dragons and have. A famous fire and blood quote that Daemon actually got to voice in a fashion at the end of season one. Dragons can kill dragons. This is a dragon war. So this is what it looks like. And we've seen it, right? There's, before the events of this show, Maegor the Cruel has come up a ton this season. Maegor and Balerion killed another Aegon, different Aegon, don't worry about it, and Quicksilver his dragon at Harrenhal at the God's Eye. But in just the show, Vhagar, and Aemond kill Luke and Aerax, right? Dragon killed a dragon there. That's not what Aemond wanted to have happen. That was Vhagar doing that. Rook's Rest. Again, Vhagar kills Maelys. That's a dragon killing a dragon. And obviously the decision Aemond makes to attack Aegon. For a long time, many in the realm who had not read the book thought that Sunfire was dead. Very perplexing. I'm glad we're past that. This was just a bizarre choice. Irritating for us to every week being like, Sunfire, long of the dying, I guess, when we knew that Sunfire was dead. Sunfire was alive. And then obviously we saw a different version of it at the Gullah because Sheepstealer didn't literally kill Vermax, but just when dragons are battling each other, how quickly things can go wrong. So this scene felt very intentionally placed to remind us of the losses that can be suffered when the Dragon War unfolds. I also think it was intentionally put here. You were asking last week, because we're pretty sure we know what the big events of the finale are going to be at this point, but you were trying to figure out, you're like, there has to be something sort of monumental in the penultimate. And the reemergence of Sunfire, I think is, but I think this dragon skirmish is here to give viewers not just this thematic richness, which I think is true, but also just a little bit of action candy inside of this episode. Can we talk about Sunfire for a second? Please. The Aegon, Larys, Tylan, but specifically Aegon and Larys plot of this season is my favorite storyline in the season. It's so good. It's the most reminiscent of Thrones, obviously, in a lot of ways, just because of the travelogue nature of it. But also, I find that Tom Glyncarnie's performance is so great precisely because he hasn't really said a whole lot in like three episodes. He's been getting talked to by people and sort of hustled around. But starting with that great smile he gives Tylan when he realizes, like, I got to go with the hard way, because he's basically like, Larys is right because he's not trying to overflatter me. You know, like, he told me the truth. But then who left him? I know. In the moment of truth. This was a big truth. For the Tylan Lannister heads, there aren't any, but I guess I'm shockingly immersed in this season. You're like, fuck, yeah, he stood his ground. I know. He stayed. He's staying on business. Larys. Larys ladies are hurting out here. Down bad this week. Is there a reddit board? It's my responsibility to convince to the sole remission of Larys ladies. I like a guy with a limp. Absolutely shameful of Larys to be like, I will, I will ensure that the great deeds will be second. Pathetic. Storytelling is important. Oh, OK. Thank you, Tyrion. Yeah. What's more important than story? I would like to agree. I've just loved watching a gun, watching Tom Glenn Carney, listen to people react with his face, not quite articulate how he's feeling or what he's thinking at any given moment. And then finally arrive at this place and not only gets his big Shakespeare speech. Yeah. His Braveheart speech. But it's there's like a layer of like humor to it because he's like, look at all these people quaking in their boots because the motherfucking king is back and then he turns around and it's like, oh, my dragon. And he gets to save your cars. And it's, you know, watching Thailand duck down like that. Like it just that this is this is cinema. This is what I thought. This was amazing. Do I have to become a Thailand convert? I like I like Thailand a lot this back out of the season. But can I read you the Sunfire Return passage from the book? All right. House Mutant, you know, walks right into it. Still here. Why? The would be drag. OK. They know that Sunfire is alive. She's Sunfire's just injured. Right. And so the would be dragon slayers easily drove off the cordon of guards who had left to feed, serve and protect the dragon. But Sunfire himself proved more formidable than expected. Dragons are awkward creatures on the ground, and his torn wing left the great golden worm unable to take to the air. The attackers expected to find the beast near death. Instead, they found him sleeping. But the. Clash of swords and thunder of horses soon roused him and the first spear to strike him provoked him to fury. Slimy with mud, twisting amongst the bones of countless sheep. Sunfire writhed and coiled like a serpent, his tail lashing, sending blasts of golden flame at his attackers as he struggled to fly. Thrice he rose and thrice fell back to earth. Mutant's men swarmed him with swords and spears and axes, dealing him many grievous wounds. It each blow only seemed to enrage him further. The number of the dead reached three score before the survivors. Fled. Shout out, Sunfire. Couple cues. Yeah. What's the rehab process for a dragon on the death's door? Um, I guess, play dead. Just, just bed rest. Rest and relaxation, you know? Ice, rest, ice, compression, elevation. Are there dragon vets? Dragon veterinarians? There's dragon keepers who hopefully are tending to Cyrax and Fenyra couldn't be bothered. But it was just a bunch of guys charging you to touch the dragon and, and like presumably not feeding Sunfire. I know. Like where did Sunfire get the reserves of energy for this? I don't know. Why? Favorite part. Part of the sequence though, is the way that, because we couldn't, I, I think we couldn't see this side of Sunfire's, uh, face before because of the way that he fell and, and sort of, so his, his more fully formed half of his face was what Aegon was clinging to, but when he was reared up there, half his face is gone the same way that, you know, it's like a pet that looks like its owner sort of moment. I thought that was really cool. Two face squared. They got to do the like Aegon, Sunfire, half face poster. Yeah. Yeah. We need to start a conversation. Full back piece. Um, I love on your, like what kind of allowed him to heal and rise. I mean, obviously there was the, I thought beautiful moment between Aegon and Sunfire a couple episodes ago where he's like, is it denial and desperation or can he send something through their bond? He's like my boy, I'm here, you're alive. Exactly. The four dimensional library of love brought him back. Exactly. And it always comes back to Nolan. Um, there is something kind of like deliciously ironic about the idea that it's Rhaenyra, it's team black. sending a force out. after Thailand, after an enemy, and that leads to Agon's last stand, that leads to Sunfire rising at last. Not another own goal from Team Black. I know, it's that tough. I, so it was, I think, I really agree. I think Tom Lincarni is just wonderful. I mean, the cast is great. This was so interesting to watch compared to his first, Agon's first coronation, because he's so, and he's been a piece of shit the whole time, but he was so reluctant on the precipice of his first coronation, right? Alicent really has to like gaslight him with the handing over of the dagger into thinking that this was what Viserys wanted. It wasn't. And then when he's up there, anointed, coronated, the way that he was like, you know, lifting his arms and, oh, with Blackfire, right? And the adulation of the crowd, the way that he fed off having an audience. This felt to me so much like his, dark, warped, even though it was very dark and warped the first time, darker, even more warped, second coronation for Agon. Some of it is obviously just what he declares. Behold me now, I am Agon Targaryen, Viserys's true heir, the sixth king of the Andals. He's doing the titles, titles, titles thing, right? There's, it made me think back to the way that he says at the end, yes, yes, cowards, you might well retreat for now you see me as I truly am. You already noted, they're cowering because of Sunfyre, not him. We still get that language, which is very purposeful. Purposeful, now you see me as I truly am. We think of the Alicent Rhaenyra, now they see you as you truly are. We also got a version of this, just a scene later, I think, from Ormund and Ulf. They'll see you as you truly are. So this idea of who are you truly, but what are you conveying and what do you want people to receive? Call me crazy, the reason why I like it is a piece of writing and the reason why I think it works for the character is very few kings lose everything to get a chance to get it back, right? But what is your emotional reaction to what you're seeing when you're watching that? Are you like, go Agon? I'm not like cheering for it, but I am like, this is good writing because I am like invested. I have watched this guy go through it over the last two years between getting maimed, you know, being left for dead, being saved by the only person in worse circumstances than him. I was going to say, you already lost your favorite problematic Team Green guy and you're like, you need to transfer that complicated emotion somewhere else. It's not like I am cheering for him, but I also, I think, crave a third way here, you know, like the idea of another power base that's going to be not only hostile towards Rhaenyra, but toward Daemon. So I'm inclined to agree with your Rhaenyra take of Emma Darcy's physicality that you and I have been talking about. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. But I'm inclined to agree with you. But if we want to take it as sort of an intentional choice, you said reptilian, but it's almost like a slight cower. You know, Rhaenyra wasn't like, behold me, Queen Rhaenyra, Karras to Cyrax, you know? Do you know what the big difference is? Is the lighting and the scene that Aegon is in is dark. Nighttime woods and stuff. Great lighting. And these guys are emerging out of the woods. They only, they hear them first before they see them. It's a horror movie. Emma had to frankly like be in like a completely like flatly lit tennis ball volume thing. I think there's a version of what, so watching Aegon and Larys in season two and falling so deeply into like the investment of that, where it like armor bond in a way that I think genuinely shocked us, like that we cared that much watching them. And I agree. It's been a highlight of this season. There's a version of this scene where even though I am rooting for Rhaenyra and I'm team black, I watch Aegon survive and feel what you're feeling. The thing that keeps me from receiving it that way was the maniacal, gleeful murder cackle. This was Mad King burned them all shit. And so I felt like where we were with Aegon was character on an arc, we never thought that we could see any progress. We never thought that he could pick Larys over Tylen because Larys was the one who would tell him, you're not just a terrible king, you're a terrible man. Wow. A little bit of reflection and introspection. This was mania and villainy and I'm scared. I watched Aegon in that moment and I felt afraid. Which I love in a different way. I thought it was great. I'm sure that it's clear now to anyone who's been listening, but I would like to now declare myself firmly team green. In the Darren Gwaine sense. Oh, well, they're the best. I mean, Darren and Gwaine are. That's where I've now placed all my chips. Wait, I have one more quick Aegon question for you guys. Do you think that we watch, we do see, they burn a lot of people. And Larys did leave. Larys is gone. But like, was he like, I hear flames and people. Larys left. When we cut back to Rook's Rest, like Aegon and Tylen are sitting alone at a fire. Time has passed. I think Larys has left. I mean, who knows, but I think he has. In the book, in the book, in the book, the passage Joe read, you know, they know Sunfire's alive and then they know he's gone and he's killed a lot of mutants. The Aegon presence is not a known thing. So my question, genuinely asking, we have no idea, is did anybody who heard this guy shout, behold me now, I am Aegon Targaryen, make it out? I think they're all ash. They're all dead? I mean, I feel like they kind of have to all be dead if anybody makes it out of there. Or they have the same. They're going to have Sunfire's alive no matter what, because he's not there anymore. Or they have the same goldfish memory as everyone on the small council last week. Right. What prophecy? What prophecy? Who said what about what? Okay, Darren. Okay, Darren, Orman, Gwaine, first of all, that's just an incredibly tough exit for Kristen Cole. Not the best prosthetic head that's ever been on Game of Thrones. And also just Orman being like your pathetic little bud from Dorne is gone. That's really sad. But Darren's like, sorry about your friend. That is nice, but like considering how many people Kristen Cole has slept with or mentored across this realm to have like one guy know about him is pretty tough. They'll sing no songs about you. They will sing no songs, and Allison will not know about your handkerchief. Think of that actually in the context of what we hear from Darren. I have no fear of insignificance. How many characters in the show would say that and mean it? Darren's an interesting guy because. My guy. He's just fantastic. But I don't know what his political ideology is. He's working through it in real time, and isn't that interesting? Just like young men everywhere. You know? And it's working out really well. You're walking on the edge today. It's working out really well. You're like, what podcast should I listen to? Red pill, blue pill. Well, that's what I'm saying is like, when he was just under Orman's tutelage, he was down one, like going down one clear path, and now Gwaine's here to put him on the straight and narrow, perhaps. Can I make a request for the holidays this year? Can you guys get me those like portable vaporizer things that Orman took to the hillside to talk to Ulf? He's so funny. Incredible stuff. Magical scene. Amazing. It's so crazy that all these guys are like, we gotta get this dude his perfume stacks. You know, it's like, what are you talking about? Ulf can't smell good. I think my favorite performance of this episode was actually Tom Bennett as Ulf, because the, you know, he's been comic relief for so long. And now he's like evil. And he's got this like very, the way that he, you know, turned that comic, it's not a, it's not a like a switch has been flipped. It's just an evolution of that comic relief into this sort of like sly sort of attitude that he has. And then yeah, and then they'll know they'll burn. I just thought that this was fantastic. Most consequential pub banning in the history of Westeros. Top three. Number one. With a bullet. Top of the list. Bill Simmons question. Just could have had a pint with the lads and we'd be fine. We'd be fine. Also, I really liked the callback to the, you know, cutaway to the person watching Damon slap him and scooch back. Or the fact that Orman at the very beginning of the season heard Damon taunt Ulf on Dragonback about wanting a castle. And so Orman's like, offer him a castle. The fact that Orman clarifies in this conversation, and so does Ulf, that they've had multiple exchanges. This has been ongoing. That was a slight trick by the show. That was a little bit of trick, like TV sort of like, last time we spoke. But if Orman is a character I'll accept that from because we have seen enough this season to believe that he is receiving every single bit of intel and then processing it and doing something with it. And I like the idea of going back and re-watching the last changing of the garb between Ulf and Hugh and wondering like, did Orman just leave? Like, was Orman just there talking to Ulf before he showed up? Ulf is kind of like wistfully staring kind of like in repose, like kind of trying to figure things out. I missed the incense and the. Maybe he brought him hot pies. Also, it was kind of good the way they set it up where Orman's patting himself on the back for this chess piece that he's discovered. And Gwaine's just like, you got Corlys? Like, who gives a shit? And Darren questions Orman at the table. That was fun to watch Corlys watch them, their dynamic when he's like, oh. He's like, what good will it do? You know, and Gwaine thinking about Gwaine saying, I can't fly away on my dragon. I owe it to these people who are here. What good will you undermining the infrastructure of King's Landing over there do to our men as the troops are marching towards them? Orman does have a plan about that. He's wooing a dragon rider, but, you know, you could process this because Gwaine and Darren reasonably are like, there's a 20,000 person strong army at the door. Focus on that. They don't know that he has this method of attempting to focus on it. There's a way that you could look at it and say, Orman, this is his version of hubris. Accounting for whatever is next before definitively solving this. But there's also a version of it where it's like he is so far ahead. Plans and side plans of everybody else that, you know, that's where the Tywin but he's got his Achilles heels nope I mean doesn't don't all the characters and that's very central in this episode you know like what is going to be the downfall that's what was so satisfying ultimately about this Ulf and Orman scene is we've spent all season saying you can't treat people that way you can't just assume that they're going to remain loyal to you and do exactly what you want for your reasons when you won't give them it would it's what Ulf and Hugh asked for is nothing the Targaryen name maybe that was an overstep a fucking castle like yeah there's no coin and you're dealing with a lot the thing I like that they've done a really good job of illustrating with the team black this year has just been you put Rhaenyra in a volatile position in the middle and have one side of the you know her council advocating for like total all out war burn them all like we're gods then you've got Mysaria going dem socialist and being like she really had her AOC moment in this episode you can be the people's queen but to do that you're going to have to tax them the rich and if you tax the rich you're going to lose the rich as this is why like you probably either need to like Oppenheimer these people or like really really like help them and and she's stuck in the middle and she's also probably caught up on her own like what's my story what's my mythology you know like I think I am chosen one so no matter what I choose whatever I do I'm going to wind up in the right and now I'm starting to really wonder about that because Daemon's betrayed me multiple times I'm all alone here this place is full of rats my kids are dead you know nobody listens to me yeah my you know like what am I doing here so I really think like and even the person you turn to for trust and comfort and a little bit of fun you know is working yeah I just I want to go back to Tom Bennett and Ulf and as Ulf and just say that like for those of us who knew as book readers that Ulf the character had to at least be someone vulnerable to some sort of coercion yeah watching the way that they established that character from the very start and what his wants and needs and inherent character was I just think it's one of the best jobs they've done a great performance from Tom Bennett and just like one of the best jobs they've done of just sort of like slow rolling an arc in front of us it's a really good character yeah what did you guys make of the Daemon Rhaenyra conversation the fallout the biggest thing to me was her keeping her chambermaid in there and now your girl Elinda there's a couple of moments in this episode I think for a second I didn't notice who Sylvie was but the woman who's with Jeyne when Daemon comes to the old Jessamyn Redfort okay Jessamyn Redfort close personal companion close personal companion of Jeyne Jeyne Aaron loves the ladies and then they were roommates Rhaenyra this is the cool thing about this Rhaenyra Daemon scene is that like all throughout the season there have been these varying levels of intimacy depending on what language they're speaking and where they're talking and instead of it being like hey it's just us kooky kids in this room together right like or let's speak in Valerian so that like high Valerian so that like only the two of us can understand Rhaenyra's like I'm just getting my hair done it's not even like this woman's doing something like critical in this room and she's staying because this is not going to be another one of you bulldozing me and telling me how much you love me and me yeah or us having or us having or us having sex like I feel like I feel like she's like you're not going to be able to sort of like seduce me into your way of thinking there's a veil between them yeah and you know he like sort of kind of tries to initiate something and she's like this will get out if there's a chambermaid here in all likelihood there is going to be whispers out there about what Daemon and I talked about yeah I don't know if like Elinda Massey we're not sure you're on watch I'm just you've been on Elinda watch she's just worked for Massaria before you know and like she worked for Rhaenyra before she worked for Massaria but like I just I don't like that Massaria is the one who rehired her back into the room and it's like if she brought that information to Massaria of like Daemon tried to come in tried to put some moves Rhaenyra was not receptive right and then Massaria's like cool later when we talk I'm going to go stand right in front of Rhaenyra's face in a way that's going to initiate something yeah that doesn't necessarily need to be accidental yeah no question I thought that the way I love what you're saying Chris about like Rhaenyra just being betwixt and between in so many respects I think that this is a very Rhaenyra's not trying to hide the turmoil in this episode she's asking out loud many times these key questions she is really trying to process this the thing that felt most undeniable I thought though was her hurt in this moment in particular in this scene with Daemon and Daemon I also think she's embarrassed embarrassed by all the times that she sat and looked at that skull and been like I know what this is deprived the actual vengeance she sought but also it's like what do I have to put my faith into yeah because he didn't just lie he was like oh no I got it and there's the there's the rational I really appreciated that we got like the rational beat from Rhaenyra where she says to like he didn't just he wasn't working me and trying to deceive me for his own end he was he was protecting his daughter well but that doesn't mean it feels good I know Ulf said the same thing where he was like well to be fair she told me they told me not to go into town you know what I mean like there are these moments of you know people are not just entirely stuck in their their one point of view and that makes them more interesting characters and there's like the what do you think I'm capable of right the I wished only to protect her from what what do you think I am yeah which is very very much a mirror to the sequence last episode between Alicent and Rhaenyra about Helaena and the baby so for Rhaenyra to before Rhaenyra does like pull Rhaena out of that right and bring Rhaena back but there was kind of like a violent lurch toward Rhaena out in the field and obviously the fear from Rhaena from Daemon from Jane Arryn about what would kind of inevitably have to happen here for Rhaenyra to have to confront with the two people kind of undeniably the two people who she has the deepest longest history with and depth of closeness to and Alicent and Daemon think she's capable of at this point well and that goes it's chilling that goes back to the whole Sylvie Massaria thing where it's just sort of like at what point when someone's like they'll only ever see you as a whore or they'll only ever see you as a mad queen or whatever at what point do you go like well fine if you'll paint me a villain I'll just be the villain and that's why getting the Aegon see me as I am and the Orm and Ulf see you as you are lines feels so those were the last two scenes of this episode so that's the idea we leave with and I thought it was telling that they were like cross-cutting out of like the Alicent scene like there was a little bit of like momentum as like these things start to come to a head right well so we're not gonna make predictions because we I mean the episodes have been very different from the book we'll just say so honestly who the fuck knows what's gonna happen but we have some awareness of certain key moments I want to hear from you what do you want what are you most invested in forget like even just story beats as a season finale think of where we were at the end of season two where we all have the finale we were like whoa that was the finale oh boy what do you need this finale to give you for it to be a satisfying season of television this feels like a conversation you might have had on the watch but you won't be doing it this week it's not necessarily like a set piece as much as a curiosity whether or not Ormond is a one and done big bad or somebody who is like a player throughout the rest of the series because there's only ten more episodes left or however nine total yeah eight after this season yeah so man I'm just curious is to see like 20,000 people are on their way to Tumbleton there's a dragon Ormond has two dragons now right so Tessarian and the Sept and then he's flipping off Rhaenyra has a bunch of beat up dragons that just did like internal damage to one another that is that is a good point Chris that's a really great point so I don't know whether or not we're gonna get like that's a good flag yeah yeah so like that was probably the worst possible time some hammy pulls on the eve of the four dragons this guy some four dragons to be like we're now all injured yep so and also for Rhaenyra to be like Moondancer your time to shine exactly Teraxis we're calling you up from the minors Joff you haven't aligned all season but wake up so yeah that was I would like to see something very Ormond centric so you don't you don't want the season to end with just the winter wolves marching I don't want the season to end with all of the pieces are you know I think it is fair to say yeah that there is not a person involved with the show who thinks they can do that again and each character is your favorite that's your companion webisode you should write a eulogy for Kristen Cole you would have done this back in the day for the live episode yeah we should wrap up and say we are going to be live that's right shortly after the finale on YouTube so you can watch us there then the episode will be available as usual on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts that's right and we will be engaging with the chat to the extent that we are capable and trying to answer some of your questions the thing about House of the Dragon is that while we do get these curveballs and wrinkles and deviations like it is a history you know piece and so there's things we know people will be like what's going to happen next season and we're like well we don't want to tell you you know but ultimately I think it would be fun to talk about what people's favorite storylines this season performances for sure I really look forward to it Sunday evening late for these coasts that's right yeah a dinner time affair for the west coast it's always the right time for some and House of R Tuesday D dive on this episode will you be back on the watch talking about the finale i think so non-committal interesting um i think so but more importantly furious yes more importantly yeah okay talk to you guys soon you