‘House of the Dragon’ Season 3, Episode 6 Reactions | Talk the Thrones

(phone ringing) - Hello, and welcome to Talk to The Thrones. I am Chris Ryan. I am joined as always by Joanna Robinson. And of course, we are joined by a woman who enjoys the simple pleasures to keep her going. It's Mallory Rubin. We are here to break down the sixth episode of the third season of House of the Dragon. Right after this. (upbeat music) (upbeat music) - All right, we are here to break down the sixth episode of the third season of House of the Dragon. You can listen to Mall and Joe go deep on this episode on Tuesday, on the House of our feed, which is where you're listening to this and where you're watching this on YouTube. Andy and I will also hit this show on Monday on the watch, perhaps not as deeply. But I think with the same water-veev that we usually bring to cooking shows and stuff like that, we're gonna get into the recap in just one second. (upbeat music) Fire up, Danny Boy, for the boyfriend. My beloved pre-Christine Cole, bodyguard, hand, usurper, dead, goes out fighting zombie river men, getting taunted by a teenager and then shot in the face by an arrow. May you rest in peace and listen to husbands by geese somewhere in hell, my friend. (laughing) - Amazing. - Before he goes out, he ties Allison's monogram tanky around his sword. Somewhere Allison is doing the Don Draper. I don't think about you at all names. Actually, she isn't a dark king's landing passageway with her daughter who is pregnant. And in the situation room of that same palace, Reneira is still debating what to do about Orman and his king's landing insurgency that's killing all the gold cloaks. During this cabinet meeting, Damon announces the prophecy that brought Reneira to power, but that I don't think anyone else but him and Allison knows about, except for now, the master of coin, and my Syria, and all the other people. - Got some notes. - Yes, have it the Freno's about the prophecy. - Okay. - That's a name. - Reneira has this slick idea to borrow some Baratheon garb and send some assassins at Orman and Darren, which works out about as poorly as you can imagine. - I thought it was a good idea, and it almost works. - She should have just said better assassins is my idea. - I mean, she didn't count on Gwen. - Gwen Wick, you know. - That's her power. - That's her power. - She's like, "Guinness is a superpower." He's like, "This guy not hot enough." - Sometimes it's also a surprise. What else? We have Hugh and Ulf who are starting to buck their heads. Ulf wants to take some beers with the lads and show off his dragon. Hugh wants to rescue his wife who's trapped in Orman's village of the damned. The Gold Cloaks are going on strike right when Damon needs the most because they have been paid and they are getting murdered. There are some Valarian family business that we didn't address last week really. Alan Lobby's is dad corals to come back into the Kingsland fold. Alan also hooks up with Bela as the two bond over being overlooked, and yeah, I guess it is, right? - It is, yeah. - It's for sure. - Uncle Alan. - Classic Chris. - But they, I mean, hardly counts on this show. They bond over being the beautiful children of father who overlook, fathers who overlook them. - What could be sexier? (laughing) There's also some high-tower stuff. Gwaine is back and tired, and Orman is not impressed with his adventures. We also get Darren finally articulating that he is not super into being Orman's puppet king. And he is Gwaine, and Gwaine is also apparently gay, according to Orman, which I thought was interesting. - It really was. I couldn't, you know what I never mind. Any, another tumultant reunion that goes wrong, she and his wife, Kat, he's like, babe, I'm kind of a big deal. And she's like, not to me. - Yes. - 'Cause she's like, you smell different. - On a more romantic note, Aiman and Alice have hard-launched their weird-kid romance, and they do so over a treasure chest of lost dragons. Aiman is something of an obsession for Ranero who bargains with Allison. You go draw him out of Heron Hall, and I'll let a with child and lay in a live. In peace, in peace, but if in captivity. Yes, her offers. Allison doesn't really have much of a choice. We wrap things up with Coralus, who is slowly but surely making his way back to King's Landing with his men, who have also provided security for the city. When he is captured by high-tower raiders, and we can get right into the questions here, because I'll start with Coralus, because I don't think we really talked about Coralus in a couple of weeks. He hasn't really been on the show that much. - That's, he quit his job. - He just went away, making boats. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - That's some stuff to work out in the field. - For me, three times, shame on you as a television show. I do not believe Coralus is dead, obviously. - I don't even think they're implying that though. - So it's just a kick-to-dove. - I thought the wind was freezing Coralus. - The guy from the andor is looking at this situation. - Yeah, bulldog, bulldog, bulldog. - It seems to feel like he's like, "Oh, now we kill him." - No, I mean, like logically, I don't think they're trying to imply it, but if like a character is like choking over the closing credits, I think they're gonna be some people at home wondering is Coralus dead again? - Yes. - Stanis is still out there. - You have always believed and you'll never stop. - Body, body, body. - This actually ductiles work very nicely with Kristen, which I guess is the thing I wanted to ask about starting off with, he is a major character on the show. We spend 24, 25 episodes with him, whatever it was. My fave, maybe some mixed feelings across the panel on his participation. This felt like the way an episode should end. Instead, we began with it. What did you think of the death? And what did you think of the treatment of the character? - This was a long episode and I was wondering, do you think there's a version? How would you have felt if this had closed out last week's episode? - Pretty excited. - Like, Wayne leaves and then they go encounter this and then he dies rather than sort of the opening. The unceremonious nature of his death, we should say is sort of the point of Kristen Cole's death in the book and we can talk about that. - Okay. - It's a really cool moment in the book, which they mostly, but unfortunately did not entirely capture. - Yeah. - But yeah, like Mallory, what happens in the book when Kristen Cole dies? - So, Joanna and I had this moment last week 'cause I think a lot of fire and blood readers probably did when Kristen is saying, there will be songs about it. - Yeah. - We're like, okay, one of two things is happening. They are setting up one of the most iconic lines in Georgia, our Martin has ever written and we're getting it next week when Kristen dies at the butcher's ball. Or they're doing that in place of the iconic line and we're not getting it. We didn't get it, I'm despondent. I will say, ultimately, didn't make my top five list of notes on the episode. I think this was by a comfortable margin, the weakest episode of the season, which maybe we can talk about, as we go, but also in a bigger sense. The line is, wait, wait. At least, will you read the fuller passage? Not just the line? 'Cause I think the fuller passage. - Three arrows flew across the field. You wanna start? - I think, I think, okay, so, sorry. - That's right. - I remember my notes, but like, it's pretty close in terms of what Oscar Tully says. I'm building a septic bones. I don't have enough bones, right? And what? - It's right in the ass. - It's right in like slurs, which is like, but it was a zi with a blade in the hand. - Also just refusing to call him, sir. - Right. - To not give him the honor of identifying this guy who's obsessed with identity and vows as a knight in this final moment, won't call him sir, Kristen, right? - And so then, and then the same thing happens where Kristen's like, okay, let's start with a little fight. Like, just me and like, three of your guys, let me show you, like, what about us? I am on the way out the door. Can I, I'm gonna read the, like, text and then you read the lines. - The text. - You read the lines, right? - Look at the shared bit of theater and the battle. - You love life theater. - I love life theater. - Okay, but Longleaf, the line slayer, who's not a character in the show, said, "I'll want three more as in three more men." And up on the ridge, Red Rob Rivers and two of his archers raised their longbows. Three arrows flew across the field, striking coal in the belly, neck and breast. - I'll have no songs about how brave you died, Kingmaker declared Longleaf. There's tens of thousands dead on your account. He was speaking to a corpse. - That's how Kristen cold eyes where he's like, "Let's do something big and fancy." And the rivermen are like, "Fuck you." - They refuse to give him the glory that he's so desperately seeking. - I did like when he was just like, "If I strike my banners, can you let my let men live?" And they're like, "No." - Too late. The man that he led on this hopeless cause that was not actually about the larger cause. - Those guys are going out with queen, right? - Sure. - I had, like, this moment, 'cause so the person who actually shot him, black alley blackwood, who has is a character who has physically shown up on the show, but not spoken or become a character in any kind of meaningful way for the audience. So first I was like, they just randomly had black alley do it and then I was like, "Wait, wait, that's the point. It's supposed to be like quite random." And, you know, so you can't just be like, Kristen cold was killed by a rando. Yeah, that's kind of the point. Okay, fine. But I was trying to figure out why it didn't land and why they're struggling with like, some of these bigger moments that like, this is called the Butcher's Ball, one of the sickest names for a battle in Game of Thrones history. And like, we're hotly anticipating this for seasons, those of us who like hate Kristen Kohl. And I just don't know that for me it hit and they had the same problem with blood and cheese and they kind of had the same problem with the gold cloak showing up when Renera and Damien took the throne. And I think it's just, George Rammart has the advantage of writing these little tiny scenes with like one, a killer one liner, and then the show, just either sometimes chooses not to do the one liner or does it and it just land the same way, but it's just like these big, kind of hotly anticipated moments, I feel like they're not quite hitting, but then in this, inside of this episode, let's say the Gwayne and Darren and Ormond stuff, which is completely show-invented, I thought was really good. - So you're hitting something that I hope we can discuss, even if like a little bit off the cuff, you know, 'cause usually what we do here is get into the minutia like the lore and like how these things are working, but in terms of the storytelling, I think that you're absolutely right, and I was thinking back to prime thrones and why the set pieces and prime thrones worked so much better. For me, aside from like, you know, Sepachnick or whoever is directing, and like, I think it was a matter of POV. It was like, John is somewhere, and then these fucking guys come out, like, and these zombies run at him, or he is the one who's facing down this wall of horses, and battle of the bastards, like, who are we with, right? And the way that they tell this story in the show is much closer to kind of like if it was a Ken Burns documentary, you know, where it's like we're gonna go in on these four people talking about something, and these four people are gonna be talking about something. This thing that's gonna happen over here is not really gonna involve these eight people talking about it, so it's not, it doesn't really feel like super experienced. It feels like it's something people are happening upon. - Yeah. - And then leaving. - Yeah. - And I think that that's only a problem in so much is like, you get somebody like Kristen and you're like, well, just the amount of time that we have spent with this person. It feels like it should be about more than this. - Yeah, but I almost like, I was thinking about spoiler show of the Odyssey, minor. A character gets an arrow in the throat in the last act of the Odyssey, and in our screening that we went to, the crowd erupted in an applause, 'cause this was like a villain and people were happy to see him right go. And he got the arrow, if I remember midsens, maybe? - Yes, yeah. - I don't know. It was a really cool, the arrow comes out of nowhere and just cuts him off midsens and this guy that we hate is dead. And I was like, why did that hit better than the butcher's ball with a character that I have been invested in? Interest like, kind of interested in his spiritual arc. - 'Cause you know who shot the arrow. - Well, I do, I think that everything you guys are saying, I think it's really interesting. I think there's a little, the show feels to me, I've really liked the first five episodes of the season. I thought they were really strong. This is the first episode that hasn't worked for me, so I don't wanna like overreact for sure. - Don't allow it. - Give in the way that the end of seasons have dipped across the series. And the fact that coming out of this episode, we now only have 10 episodes of the show total left. I, a couple things around my mind, one, pacing. A pacing issue with the show. When to go fast and when to go slow, that's connected to your point of view, a point and to your big moments point because, and I understand if, I don't know if this is actually true, but I would understand if it were a reluctance to say goodbye to a character like Kristen, who is one of the central forces of the show, sooner, but clearly they should have. Because while Joe and I have said to you, like probably 17 times on Talk to Thorns at this point, can't believe how much we care about Kristen Cole and are invested in his arc. Like Kristen Kingmaker is one of the biggest pieces of shit in the text and fleshing out that character and putting him in on an arc is a testament to the ability to adapt this tale on the screen and a really compelling and interesting and new and fresh way. I've loved Kristen and Gawain together, but I think it's undeniable that by the fifth, sixth, seventh time, their scenes were only the two of them sitting there talking about an existential crisis. It started to feel really see me. And so then you're building toward this big moment that in the book, as Joe was saying, the anti-climax is the, that's the point. It is supposed to be such a devastating thing that Kristen is robbed of the glory he saw. The fact that it's Red Rod Rivers that will paint a long leaf is like saying this thing, it adds to the indignity for Kristen. On a television show, we don't care about Black Ali yet. And so it's harder for us to feel like holy shit what a rock star moment for someone we don't know. Right? And this is something I brought up on the deep dive where I was like, have they done enough work in the Relance? This is something we've been worried about since last season. There are all these little battles in the Riverlands and in the environment of blood, it's just random new character, random new character, random new character. And here they boiled it down to like Oscar Tully, a young River Lorde and one old winter wolf in Roddy the Ruin. Those are the two characters that they've given us in this entire army over here. And then in Kristen's side, it was Kristen and Gwayne and Gwayne left, so it was just Kristen. And now he has got like a new second in command who like we don't know. I like went back to the fourth episode to find that guy's name. I believe his name is Sir Edgar, maybe not, but I think Kristen at one point was like, Sir Edgar, I guess that's that guy's name. So we were closing in on Butcher's Ball as the Rivermen are swarming the tiny remnant of Kristen's Force. That's the only face that is even recognizable at that point. I just think that's a problem. And I think a gold cloak desertion is another, we like, we don't know those guys as they're handing their cloaks to Damon. Pacing is a question, but also allocation of time and it's hard to decide. But on the one hand, I was like, okay, did they have enough time to make us care about these people? And on the other hand, Darren and Ormond, like they've had the same amount of episodes to make us care about those people and I deeply invested over there. But if you spend all that time with the Riverlanders, do you have the time to devote to Darren and Ormond if they prioritize the mistakes? The mistake perhaps in the in the genesis of this show is how much stuff happens in a King's Landing like cabinet meeting. And those conversations, especially the ones since the Raniera episode, I think are just, they've been so repetitive to me. And they, they, you spend so much time before being like, what should I do? I don't want to do that. I don't want to do that in Damon asking for this and the sorry asking for to do that. And then you're like, well, if we just kind of trusted the viewer to be like, this is kind of the state of play in King's Landing, let's build towards something else somewhere else. And maybe it's a matter of like the style of writing that goes into different parts of the show whereas like the Ormond stuff seems to be very much written in a vernacular that you can understand exactly like what psychologically, what is happening with this guy, and what a bully he is. But this is a bigger storytelling. I mean, I don't want to, do you just say what you're going to say? No, no, no, I agree with you. I think that like, because I'm inclined to think there's a little bit of season two PTSD where they think they need to save in order to every couple episodes, parse out a major set piece and not rely on just like conversations in elegant rooms, even though that is also a tenant of Game of Thrones at its best. But I think you're right, Chris. It's like hard to maybe say that. Oh, just trust that those scenes are good enough. If they're out of balance with each other, I was thinking of that old dithers of Dragonstone knock against Reneira's small council back in the Dragonstone days. This is the first episode. I've actually quite liked the small council scenes to this point, but I really agree with you. I thought that the overall episode had a halting and congress kind of flow to it. That was really jarring and really notable inside of scenes, but also across scenes. Some of it is what you're saying. The repetition, even something like, and it's a tough balancing act because we want to understand for sure, the weight and burden that is driving the characters to this potentially devastating place. So an example in that small council scene is Reneira saying, "My father would abhor it." And I'm like, we need to understand that that's really a guiding principle for her. However, I think that the show needs to trust that we understand that at this point, right? I also think there was a lot of like, in addition to the repetitive story beats, there was the other thing, which was just literal missing scenes, set the, what is the conversation between Oralyn and Bolton Rockston setting up the coreless moment, or the acknowledgement of the missing Reneira scene of Jane Aryn. And I was like, this is just really kind of sloshy work. - So there's a missing scene where Reneira walks out of the cave and then we get to see Reneira. - Like gets on her dragon and flies around in plain sight of people who put Jane Aryn through the sky. - Oh, just a rando, I think. - Just a rando, just show us that she's a maniac. - And it's a, and it's a person who found Reneira because she's like, well, this person can't know that we found Reneira. - She's just talking in front of the whole household in a way that it was like really, and, you know. - How many of those people are not gonna go rat out and what's going on to Ms. Arynira? - Well, her dogs in the room, I was looking for them. I don't know. The, on the like, how it was written front. - Yeah. - You know, something you texted us last night, Mallory is like, David Hancock, a writer that we've really, really liked, is credited, but he's, he's one of two credited writers. And so I'm not trying to throw that other writer under the bus, but David's other episode is the episode titled Tumbled In. So I'm wondering if he, it was like assigned - Tumbled In. - The Ormond stuff, you know what I'm saying? - And that's why it feels so different. - There's also, we talk about like, "Why didn't Kristen Cole land?" Because nobody knows about it. Because for the rest of the episode, nobody reacts to Kristen Cole dying. Now, 'cause there will be no songs about him, but, and on the one hand, that's the point on how they had narratively. - Yeah, it's great. - There's lots of stuff that people find out about from Ravens, but he easily. - Everybody knows too much all the time. So you're right, it stands out and cons. - It gets into like, there's basically, I'm gonna take this back to South Park because there is a very good, 20-Parker, the Ortex, that stone lecture about storytelling, which I highly recommend. It's like, very brief, you can watch. And it's basically them talking about like, you go through the beats of an episode of South Park. And if you ever put in between the beats, and then, or meanwhile, the scenes don't connect. - Right. The scenes have to have, therefore, in between each of them, and then, but. - Yeah. - And you have to have basically, like, Kristen Cole dies, and therefore, Allison knows that her one protector in the world is gone or something like that. But there's no connective tissue between these scenes. There's connective tissue between relationships, like Allison and Ranera. That's a coherent episode throughout the entire thing where she's just like, why would you think I'm such a monster? Why do you think I'm such a monster? I have to be a monster now, right? - Yeah. - They spread out across an hour and two minutes with all this other stuff going on. It never actually like establishes like, I don't disagree, but I think they try, but it's less connective tissue and more like stitches that dissolve. Because like, when you got, when you cut from Aiman and Alice, and she's like, you know, would you fall like screaming all alone to someone falling out the moon door? So they're like doing these cute little cuts across scenes, but thematically or in terms of the fate of the characters, it doesn't make any sense. - You're saying your sons will be princes to Aiman and then we cut to the crying baby in the throne. - Right, there was a lot of that. - There's obviously a cute thing. - I think they're really cute. - Yeah, and I think the got cute thing also like connects to I think another undeniably less successful than the more deft and nimble scripts of the season aspect of this episode, which was just, I thought it a really kind of glaring and clunky way the number of characters who just said the quiet part out loud. Like the, the, I, Rina, again, actually is maybe the, that scene is a good example. Like all my life I have yearned after a dragon and now I have one, but I have lost everything else. - Thank you for, we know, we watch the entire art. Like we should understand that and the show needs to trust that we understand that. So that's, it's very, very strange. And then I think the other element, a couple of these things that you can kind of, okay, we're trying to figure out it's a harder show to make, but it has been operating at a high level, I think, and then this one also had just a lot, a lot. I think other viewers of the show have been bumping on this maybe more than we have to this point. A lot of characters making decisions that don't make sense. Now, I think that the show has always embraced the stakes as a part of the human condition that's actually part of the text that it's interested in assessing. Alison, mishearing Viserus or misunderstanding, misinterpreting what he means by Egon, is a different category to me than are we supposed to believe that Damon, even in his rage, even with the threat against his, you made this beautiful point on the deep dive for episode five about the goal culture and extension of his identity. Clearly he's like shaken to his core by that. Okay. He's not thinking about what it's gonna do to Ulf that he embarrasses him and shames him and beats him up in the street, but he's not paying attention at all to the fact that everybody is watching him, including the little bird who's gonna report that to Orman. Now, that fits on one level with Damon's character, which is he's brash, he's reckless. - He thinks the dragon's meaning, I think you're right. - I think they're above any kind of punishment or consequence for their decisions. I think the, and the PR battle, the distinction and kind of PR deftness that we've been tracking. This fault tips, I think, just slightly though, into the side of like, you're just being stupid and we need to be able to trust your judgment a little more than that. I think they were near a sending Alison to Heron Hall falls into that bucket too. That's not a decision that feels defensible to me from that character at this point in the story. Alison had said to her two seconds before then, really just want to escape. And it's like, well, here's what I'm gonna do. I'm gonna send you out in the world. - Oh, but she has Elena. - She does have Elena. She's using that clearly as leverage in a very scary way. - I thought that line of mine was very scary. - I'll look over her Elena while you're gone. - And also they're like, remember when I told you that you would become the thing that you would board. - Yes, but I'm like, what is the plan? Is Alison standing outside of the gates of Heron Hall being like, "Amen, come out." - Yeah, great. - What do you see exactly plan? - Yeah. - So there's a lot of waiting and a lot of rushing in the decision. - I also, in terms of, and we can talk about things we liked and lore and stuff like that, we don't need to entirely pile on. But if Damon is going to talk about the prophecy at the small council table. - I just can't drop it crazy. - Why would he not switch into Valerian, which they've been doing in almost every other scene that they've had together this season? - Yes. - That is the moment. - Yeah. - To switch into Valerian. - That really bugged me. - That's, it just doesn't, because again, it doesn't make sense, and it doesn't make sense that the character would do it, but it also doesn't make sense that the show would do it. This is canonically established as a secret that has passed from ruler to heir. When Renera told Damon, brought it up at the end of season one, the fact that he didn't know that Viseras had not confided in him was such a massive moment in their relationship that he reached out and choked her. That was the stake that the show was established for how. - And now he's like, I'll say this in front of the master. - When she told Jayce midway through season two, ahead of Rook's rest, there's something I need to tell you, Jayce, something I should have told you when you first became out of the air to the throne. It's a secret. This is the line in the show. It's a secret that Viseras told me when he named me successor, and it has passed from king to heir since egg on the conqueror's time. Also, or while it's in that room. Or while as Joe has mentioned before, there's one of the main sources for fire and blood. There's no logical explanation for this not making it into the text if it was set in this room. Period. So it's just the kind of thing that feels like it's not like the coffee cup from crap services. Being at the table, it's not, but it makes me a little bit nervous. And I have felt a really high level of confidence in the adaptive choices to this point. So again, maybe next week we'll be like, fuck, we're back. That was a little bit of a dip, okay? And we end on a strong note, I hope so. But there were a lot of things in this episode that didn't measure up. - There were a couple of things actually, and you've alluded to a few of them. But Joe, there was moments where I as somebody who only has more of a superficial knowledge of the story that I'm watching was a little, actually could have used more handholding for every moment that we get of like Reina saying, I've always wanted a dragon, but I lost everything in return or whatever. I was a little confused by the Missaria stuff. Now, at the end of the episode was like, I see now she is carving like a third way where she is like, I see Damon and her. I need to make sure that I have like optionality going forward. I think is what happened, but I didn't understand who she was sicking that night one. - And you didn't understand her white Chanel little jacket. - Well, I guess I was wearing it. - So I was, you know, I've been enjoying this season. - Oh yeah, I agree. - When she dresses like Jackie Oat, I was like, she does lie about knowing that. - So this is my interpretation of what happened. Renera's, so Allison right away is like, hey, Helena's pregnant. So Renera knows now that Helena's pregnant, of course. And then she asked Missaria, did you know? I'm sorry, he's like, no. And now Missaria is terrified that Renera is gonna find out that she knew and didn't tell Renera. So the maid that she has killed is the one that Allison gave her necklace to. And so was involved in the whole let Smuggle Allison and Helena out of here. So everyone who knows, this is a PSA to people in King's Landing. If you knew, the Missaria knew that Helena was pregnant, you're in danger girl. - I really could use like, that's where I could use Adam Curtis voiceover like, and that was the nurse. (laughing) - So she's covering her tracks, so Renera doesn't find out that she's right. - So it's not necessarily Missaria being like, I'm starting to have my misgivings about Renera and I need to work the project. - I don't know if she's the time. - Work the project a little bit. - Yeah. - Somebody that could wrap her out. - All right. And if there are other things, I'd be worried. - Give me like a moment you love from the episode. - Yeah. Well, I will say this about Renera's plan to send the fake Baratheon assassins into Kildarion. And part of her plan is to make them as smelly as possible so that Ormond would have a like, would be, yeah, impaired during this moment. The way the like, you're really just putting the wax in his ear's sound cut out as Ormond was just like having a freak out about the manure on the boots. I really loved all of that. - I thought in a show where, you know, they usually are focusing on like massive battles as they are set to be the build up of Gwayne kind of being like- - Noticing. - Something's wrong here and also obviously as he lets on later, this guy had chestnut hair and his foot taller. - He's hotter. - I've met him, he's hot. - He's hot. - It's not this guy. I know we mentioned this to you when you first showed up, but the guy from Andor, Bulldogon, Roxon, he has a valerian steel sword. It's called Orfen Maker, which is one of the sickest names ever. - Orfen Maker. Like one of the like, - We would do really good work naming the swords. - I think so. Who uses it to like, vivisect a guy. - Like I just thought that was like incredibly cool. I really liked all of that. And then like the Darren Gwayne dynamic. Like when, when Ormins like, I'm not evil enough. Let me add some cash homophobia to the list, right? When he is like making his- - I'm the sawed you by being like- - Oh for sure. - Well that was already there. - You can't help yourself. - But like making his, you know, making his little jokes at Gwayne's expense, one of his little jokes that he makes at Gwayne's expense, Darren kind of smiles and Gwayne looks so hurt. And then Darren smile like, fades like, oh shit, I've gotten so used to playing along with Orman that I have like upset the person that I cared about. And then he did say the thing later where he's like, I'm a puppet, a child and I'm like, you're just saying- - That's the singular Darren line that I have not enjoyed in this entire series. - But like, at the end when Ormins and Gwayne are talking that cuts off before Ormins answers Gwayne saying, okay, so what's your plan? - Yeah. - Presumably that means Gwayne still is high tower until the day he dies and like he's-- - A long day. Staying for Darren, and I think staying to protect Darren. I think Darren asked him directly, the Orman Darren going in scenes for my favorite as well. I thought they were fantastic. I mean, they can, honestly, I also, once again, loved the Lyris egg on Thailand scene. Oh, you're gonna get to that. It's the Texas East teen green scenes. So good. Freddie Grave, Dirt, Layton, Thailand, Lannister, Sneaky Hot, more than Sneaky Hot. Okay. I agree. I agree. Yeah, just glistening chest. I agree. And by your dead dad. Yeah. And I agree when he's like, there's the shovel is free, Lord Lyris, and there's just kicks Janice's body into the, like, not even foot deep grave. That was great. High comedy. We could address whether or not Thailand also had to carry that body out of the camp that they killed him in, where there was definitely 50 guys standing around. Well, don't worry. They just need to pass a few more days until they could get on that cog. This one, the prior one was Delskidil. This one's made in pool a few days, gather provisions, they'll be out before the full moon. I'm sure it'll be fine. The Ormond stuff like, Ormond repeatedly calling Gauin, who has been through battle, who is a veteran of war, a fucking pussy, right, calls him a Craven. And then Gauin, sussing out what is happening, grabbing the carving knife from the table and protecting Darren in a way that Ormond was in no way equipped to do. Sinema. That was awesome. Fucking great. They went for whatever the rating that they have. We can have all the intestines fall out of this guy and then somebody else pukes. Yeah. And Darren looks really, really shaken to see the gore and the guts, right? And the visceral, oh my god, this is what this is going to look like, this is what this is going to require. Also, we got the Darren, the Darren moniker issued without earning it at all. I like that it's kind of like a PR gambit there, you know, fits in this universe that that would be a bit of branding that Ormond put into the world for sure. I was like waiting for Darren to earn that, you know, in some way, it's different. I can allow it a hot, a heterochromia, a high-tower dead, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm, I'm sorry about that, the, who, the, who Damon, when he dressed as the gold cloak, Lord in his accent and then stabbed him in the ear right into the brain, tough way to go. But that guy got off on this shows, yeah, I think, yeah, I mean, painless because you're just gone. But I think it goes, you're out like, oh, he was out like a late, yeah, I think the fact that Damon was pushing it in during the whole conversation probably meant it wasn't super painless but maybe the final cost was he managed to get off a, this shows version of, you know, a high sparrow line. Wasn't quite the poetry of you are the few, we are the many, but he got the sentiment across. But yeah, I thought like Ormond, you know, he still had moments in this episode, he says it's the little by little bite, bite, bite, the performance is so good, exposing her as weak and unsuitable, we go, we see in King's Landing, Reneer is like, oh, my God, that's what he's doing. That was all that connective tissue. I thought across the episode was really good and really effective. Ormond saying the patient hunter gets the kill and fell into the trailer and the, you know, we hate him, we love him, we see what a deplorable despicable human he is, but he says these things and you're like, this guy is equipped to puppeteer this war and then he embarrasses himself in real time. Sure. I thought that was really, really great. And just, yeah, I agree with you, I think the Darren going stuff was lovely, Darren asking going, first of all, going our guy, being like, it's been a week since I've had a feather bed. Yeah, iconic. Yeah. So I don't know how much of the talk to you after a week away for a Comic Con. Exactly. I was surprised to see Darren kind of looming over. I know. Yeah. Yeah, Freddie Fox. Yeah. The, um, when you were in King's Landing, you see Allison, did you, Darren asking about his mother and the, the, the emotion on his face is also like, that's my sister, like, I like to get safer. Yeah. So that all worked wonderfully. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I thought that stuff was all really good. Um, I thought the last line of, or one of the lines that the guy who Damon earpokes. Yeah. Was something like, we are the seven, right, or we are, like, it kind of implied that there's a little bit of a holy war element to this high tower versus Targaryen thing. Well, he said, we have no signs or sigils, which I really liked. Yeah. Um, but what else do you say about how many? How many of you are there? How many? We have no number. We are everywhere. That's the high sparrow. Right. Uh, then he says, the Darren, the daring thing, Damon, it's like, don't worry. You're going to dry it. I'm dying. I'm tripping by the army. Will she lay waste her own city, will she set upon her own people with swords? You will never find us. We're the people of the seven kingdoms. We have no sign or sigil. And when you strike us, you only drive more to our cause. So that's, we have friends everywhere. Uh, yeah. I mean, the thing. The tactic is clearly working. The gold cloaks are handing over their kits, right? You can't protect us and you also can't pay us. Teenage nuns are being like getting out from the nunnery. Yeah. We're nearer. I'll let a candle for her. We're nearer. She's like technically. That's a city comptroller. Oh my God. Yeah. That was fascinating to just the pub, really publicly and nakedly, saying, talk to Tormon Manderley. He's the master of coin, like, nothing subtle about scapegoating him. She's also like, not, she doesn't have a hand. Like, this is, this is why Coralist, she needs somebody like him. She needs somebody like auto. She needs somebody who's like, my job is to just take these arrows all day long. You know what, Alan's not up for the job. I'm sorry. I was just watching her and shaking her head like this is not the way. There's something, Chris, something like, extremely monumental happens in this scene that we want to talk about. Yeah. We have, we're in different places on it. On whether it was effective or not, so you're the tiebreaker, in the, we're nearly hearing petitions. Okay. She cuts her pinky on the, the barb of the iron throne mirroring how the Sarah's cuts his pinky. Did she also do that when she was seen all the rats everywhere and she scratched herself a little bit or no? She was about to be asking, this was like a blood has been drawn. You were commenting on an earlier shot, yeah, where she was just sort of like running her fingers across the tower. And that's what we're talking about. She was talking about his infecs, right? Magical leprosy is. Yeah. I believe so much. I call it an infecs. I think infecs, though, is the medical term, because you learn that from the pit, right? Um, but yeah, she cut, this is a monumental moment in the book, Renere, the throne, cuts Renere, the idea that the throne rejects the unworthy egg on to be covered in cuts. Let's be honest. If that were the case. Um, now, yeah, maybe he was, and it was just too drunk to notice. Fair enough. But yeah, she gets cut. No, I don't, I don't know how I feel about it because it's a huge moment in the book and they kind of downplayed it. Yeah. A really cool overhead. I thought a really sick looking shot of her walking way. They didn't do like the slow mo, like, tweet, yeah, yeah, yeah. And that's okay. It did look like dragon wings. It looked like Danny walking out and, you know, everyone's favorite episode. Everyone else on that episode of TV. I liked that this was a little subtle, I really liked, especially in a stretch of the story where Renere is invoking this era so directly that it was such a mirror to his little Nick that became, uh, guys, sorry, I'll be back in a few minutes. I have to just hang out with this bowl of maggots for a while. I don't know how my face fell off. Um, but as we talked about a lot in season one, when that was happening to the seris, and as, as Joe noted, this question of how people perceive moments like that, you know, Megaw or the cruel who has been invoked many times in the season, what she fears, right? They would, if I, if I burned the town that raised my banner, they would call me Megaw returned. Allison calls Renere a cruel in this episode that feels like a very deliberate word choice, right? Um, Megaw impaled by the barbs of the throne, found that way a lot of like the throne judge him for being Megaw or the cruel. The guy who started it all for all of us in the future for these characters, but for us, OG, the mad king, king scab constantly getting caught by the throne. So the idea that like, whether that's legit or not, whether Drogon was right when he burned the throne, the symbol of power and the judgment of the throne and all of that, it's once again, and this is why I like it a question of like, what will the characters think? So the subtlety of it works for me on that front. I was glad that we got it. We had started to wonder if they were just not going to do it, um, and say, oh, and that would have been interesting too, frankly, the idea that it was just like Madness or power corrupts. Yeah. So, um, speaking of dragons, yes, got some eggs. Yeah. Got some eggs and got some, some, some love, consummated relationship between, a, a, a, - Amen to Dallas. - Do you guys think that Amen is done with his Heron Hall therapy dreams? - Done. - No. - Okay. - God, I don't. (laughs) - Yeah. - I thought that this has been walking similar path to Damon and Dallas last season, which is no fault of, and that's a criticism, but it's no fault. Of any of the performers, I think I just find Heron Hall, a kind of dull place to hang out for many, many episodes, you know? - So you're not gonna custom order on Etsy a version of the tapestry that Helena was stitching of, Amen, in a very vaginally, naked fetal. (laughs) - I was lording above him. - That's why I'm glad we knew this spot, 'cause I have to, but I did not catch it. - Yeah, what in the Georgia of Keith was that? (laughs) - Yes. - What did you think of the rendition of that relationship, Joe, but also tell me a little bit about the story Alice tells, Amen. How about the clutch of eggs I'd love to? Here's my favorite thing that happened is, I mean, when she rolled out the eggs and Amon's dream fire, that's because dream fire is forever laying clutches of eggs all around Westeros and it's her favorite thing to do. - Oh, so there's lots of little boxes of eggs everywhere? - Well, so this is Helena's, Dragon, Dreamfire, and it was Raina Targaryen's Dragon before it was Helena's Dragon. And, of course, this was a different Raina. - A different Raina. - A different Raina. - No, our Helena. - This Raina was married to her brother, whose name was Egg Eye. - Don't worry about it. Okay, you know this Targaryen. Daenerys Targaryen, a Targaryen, you know, was gifted three Dragon eggs. - She sure was. - We're pretty sure those three Dragon eggs came from Dreamfire. - Okay. - So the show is like, hey, you know those three Dragon eggs that they awoke with, you know, by killing Jason Momoa and all this other things? We have our own version of that. And it's a box of eggs that Alice Rivers has at Heron Hall. I don't know what was always her plan if she's just like someone who likes to pivot. But when she says Raina Targaryen came to Heron Hall to mourn the lot, I mean, everyone in Raina Targaryen's life died. That's tough, three husbands, a lot of kids. But it's canonical that Dreamfire went to Heron Hall. That Dreamfire laid a clutch of eggs there is new information. - It is new, but as Joe was saying, I think very tracks completely. In fact, even though we didn't know the Heron Hall thing specifically, would like have defied reason the Dreamfire constantly laid a clutch of eggs and even across the kingdoms, would not have loved the clutch of eggs in Heron Hall. But so for Alice to like sit on that for however long she's been alive and been doing that is I think interesting because if her plan all along was to seduce a Targaryen to make Targaryen princes 'cause that seems to be the plan that she has laid out for Amen here. If you have kids' children, they will be Targaryen princes. And hey, I've got a womb, isn't that interesting? Like that seemed to be her plan there. And we could wake these eggs up and then we'll have dragon princes and dragons for them to ride at Heron Hall. - How'd that be fun? - You could put it in the cradle perhaps. You could use some blood magic perhaps. - We'll see what I'm curious to see. - Fire and blood. - Yeah. - It's not like a scothed tricep. - When the heck goes on, you could do that. You could just put it on the air fryer would do it. What can't the air fryer do, you know? - It's a free spot of color all along it. - I thought to like, no to Amen, about have you forgotten your history was kind of interesting too because the question of what would be known or not known. One of the things that I really like this because this is like a big thing for Throne fans. Just where might there be eggs? So like Sam and the fourth book Feast of Crows is like talking about, you know, wondering if silver wing left eggs up at the wall and there's a lot of theorizing about when geese was up at Winterfell, did vermax leave eggs at Winterfell. So the idea of like where are the eggs and the dragons don't. So one of the places that dream fire left eggs was Fair Isle. Raina was called Queen of the West, Queen of the East, Constantly Bounce Garage. She's an interesting character in general to invoke. - The Black bride. - Yeah, like the fact that she was, should she rule, should her daughter's rule and then her brother, Jeharris, who started our entire story for us in the little, the prologue, the great council became king instead and he was a great king. But the eggs are laid at Fair Isle and like everyone wants them. It's the hot goss, the tea has been spilled. Everyone's like well what if you, I'll give you this but give me an egg, she's got to take them and leave. The stolen eggs that, there's never been 100% confirmed but every Throne's fan thinks became dannies, the Joe mentioned, they were taken from Dragonstone by a character who was one of her dear friends and maybe love her, Eliza Farman and when they were gone, Jeharris. - Eliza? Is it pronounced Eliza? - Eliza? - Eliza? - Yeah, not sure. - Eliza. - You're an audio book. - But that's mostly on Fire and Blood. They have like, they call them Jeharris instead of Jeharris, they're so who knows? But probably not the way I said it. When she obsconds with the eggs, Jeharris is like, hey, heads up Raina, we're gonna have to go to war if something happens with those eggs. So the idea that maybe Dream Fire would have been laying eggs over a long period of time at Harrenhal 'cause Raina was there, she was staying in Widow's Tower and then just lived the rest of her life and died and no one would have been like, should we see if there's a loose end on the egg front there? - Yeah, but if there was a witch there who was like, sorry, no eggs, also bats in your face, you know? Like, it's defending. - Are you guys looking at what she threw a stone into a dark hallway, bats in your face? - It would be dope if there was a job for the Targaryens that was like the Rick Devins of Finding Eggs. You know what I mean? It was just like all I do. - Wow, from the Odyssey survivor, what can you do? - I don't know. - Does Aiman fall for her because she's just a witchy woman or because she has the eggs or both? - Mommy. - Yeah, Mommy has shoes, but I think she also like, she's a. - The gross stop. - Absolutely, stop. - Don't leave that. Stop. - Stop. (laughing) - Stop. - That's like Emily Blattin disclosed your day-level stop, and please. - Is it clicking? - Yeah. - I've clicked in your ear. - I do, and I just close my eyes. - And then I elbowed you in the chest. - But it's in the collarbone. - Yeah, more so. - Anyway. I think she's spinning a good convincing yarn, you know? Or she's just sort of like, and what will you do? Maybe Vega are left to protect you, like, you know? And what, you know, I thought that was like a really good line. - Savvy, yeah. - Savvy too, because think of Allison saying to Aiman when he's a kid, your obsession with those beasts goes beyond understanding. This is the tack to take with the character, like Aiman. - Yeah. - That's interesting. - Your bond with your dragon is so deep. - Yeah. - Soon to bring a band in you, she left to protect you. - She's doing it for you. - And then Aiman saying, oh, you know, I'm cursed. And Alice invoking the idea of being cursed, she's actually has her back to him at one point, so we can see very sincere, complicated emotion playing on her face. She invokes the idea of being cursed, maybe think of the Barnaul quote, you know, Barnaul curse to live in human form. That's all very interesting. What is Alice's past? What is she on her future? - Is she the castle? - Yeah, 'cause she wanted her own theory. Yeah. - Yeah. - And that seemed to be her primary ask, was like, I don't really, I'll help you. You just have to give me a hair and haul. And then all of a sudden, it's like, I'm sick of this desolation. Well, but Aiman asks her, and Joe had posed this question previously, and I didn't have an answer other than, well, maybe she just doesn't trust her an era's word would be, like, a green era would be good for her. But Aiman asks this question in this episode, you want the castle so bad, why don't you just kill me? And again, 'cause there's a bounty, and that's the reward. So I think there's probably some of that, like Alice is clearly done with her an era in Aiman. - But obviously she has another larger purpose that she is working towards. - The fact that Aiman is clearly a better match for her mission than Aiman was, that she's been bringing as far as she's like, she's walked out for the better, younger, more virile, more likely to fuck her entire life. - Yeah, the lonely boy, she could say, aren't you tired of feeling that way? I know I am. - So do you think she legitimately was touched that he saved her? Or was she like, I set that up? - Oh, she set that up. - I really do. - Why not both? - Maybe there's something real there between those two crazy kids. - How long has she envisioned this Targaryens for turning to the ancient seat of power and I shall bear them many seeds bit that she's on? - I don't know. I just think she has the box of dragon eggs and she's like, this is gonna be useful. And then she's sat and she's like, ooh, I've got a hot young book here and some eggs. Maybe I can make an army. - And the whole time, like Simon is like, there's just this lady who's out there who's kind of weird, but we rock with that, like it's okay. - But have you tasted her venison? - Yeah, exactly. - Simon, when he was talking about what she did with Oscar's grand sire and he's like, our healer, Alice, she tried. - I feel like Simon was just like, you say you're a healer? - Yeah. - Got it. - Yeah. - What else do I have? - Did you want to talk about Danny's the dreamer? - Let's end on that 'cause that kind of has the last, that's the last scene more or less before the choralist capture. - You didn't want to talk about Jane Eyron slapping right now in the face, or that was-- - I kind of love this. - Stop it, shing. - Why don't we talk about Balon? Okay, here's the-- - Yeah, oh yeah. - Right, okay. - And he actually we haven't talked about hew. And his wife really, either. - Let's talk about the couples then. Let's do a few in cat romance coroner. - And we're always thinking about love. - And Balon and her uncle. - And then we'll talk about prophetic stories. - This was bizarre. Like, this is book canon that Balon Allen get together. So I'm not like, I didn't see this coming, but I'm like, they didn't do the work here. - I thought that she was-- - Vibing with Adam, right? - That's what I thought. - We've been, we've been reminded of that in the spoiler section. - A lecture in the mystery. - We're like, why is she vibing with the other brother when we know she winds up hooking up with Allen? So, I'm confused by the work that they did here. - Did you think they had any chemistry? - No, okay. - I think the scene, at least to this point, definitely played as I'm having a tough time at work. And I can stand to like work out some of my strengths. - Yeah, do you think she just wants to top him? She's like, you seem beautiful. - Yeah, it does turn out like a dime. - Definitely, I was like-- - Do you ever get tired? - You seem obligated. - Everyone else, yeah, a little bit. Okay, how about one more time? - Yeah, right. - Take care of me, yeah. Okay, then Hugh and Kat, I thought, was actually a well done piece of dramatic storytelling. - Yeah, also some serious security issues at the Templeton Front Gate, let's just say that. - Sure, but like-- - You get in the fake Prathians, get in? - But the one after another, King's Landing, where he's got like 80,000 agents apparently walking around everywhere, the first time. - I will say Hugh with his very Targaryen hair. - I know. - I know. - It's tough pretty well. - Yeah, pull it up, at least. - Yeah, pull it up. - You know, I think that the Hugh storyline is important, but I think that this was the best scene I've seen him in so far, it was-- - I think it's good. - Kat being like, you abandoned us. - Yes. - If you wanna know what you can do to help me, you can stay here, and you leaving, [BLANK_AUDIO] like come with me shows that you're not the guy I fell in love with because you don't you don't think that I would stay for my family like you didn't stay for your family like and I thought that was really well done. Any grabs are I mean we've seen a burst of violence from Hugh before in the previous season when he was like trying to get groceries when they were in short supply so there's been like these little moments with Hugh um so this felt very in character I also agree I really I really liked it um yet another house the dragon episode this season that has to deal with sexual assault like cats like I was assaulted several times on the road here and I'm like cool great sounds cool um yeah but I thought it was really good scene yeah and I thought the stuff with Ulf in this episode was also yeah pretty good not subtle there's you know the hill is nice yeah he's just like yes and plus we got vermouth or in silver. Which is that idea is like is your life better than it was and it's like yeah but like not really like you it's I loved that moment it's nice to see just the two of them interact all saying yeah come on go and whistling where's the way there was someone to be like dragons are not dogs dragons are not horses come on go um yeah Ulf really voicing something quite I don't want to like say profound but very poignant there you know and then we see that literalized in the interaction between cat and you it's like okay you got to think we've been talking about this with so many different characters rena just said it yeah rena doesn't remind us very directly you get the thing you want it's good but it's on our without purpose or principle it's like yeah it's like a character who's like now I have like a weapon that no one else has but I it's the ultimate status like like like it's it's sort of just like well what like it's not necessarily because they've risen from some like lower class to like this ruling class it's more like why why do I want to be a part of this anyway like I mean what differences it really make and especially if Damien's gonna treat me like shit like he can't share it with someone and like Ulf saying that to you feels like the inciting incident of course for you to go into tumble tend to be like yeah right share it with my wife cat who's right there I'm gonna go get her and she's like you think you're hot shit you think this is what I want like our kid is dead and you didn't but I needed you on the ground right here where were you dragons have no point if you're not gonna use them basically I mean like as a deterrent you know you would think that they would be this huge deterrent but Orman is proving the point that I am gonna press the idea that you're not gonna burn your own people so I'm gonna drive you nuts by doing a thousand little cuts inside of King's Landing and he was sitting there on a dragon and the only thing he can do for his wife would then incite a huge war you know what I mean like even greater uprising than there already is so I like the way that they've boxed characters in and especially I agree I think in general Chris I love what you're saying about like whether the circumstances sitting on the throne or riding a dragon or getting a seat on the the small council whatever the case may be like your proximity to power your desire to have proximity to power status what do you what did you want to do with it in the first place did you just want to feel good did you think you had to have it and the fact that someone else tried to deprive you of it was such a great insult that you tried to push for the thing that you didn't even really want we were talking about this recently like the show starts for a reason with Ranera saying like I just want to like fly my dragon in the cake it's a tragedy to find Ranera in this place the scenes was Ranera and Allison I thought were once again even though I'm not totally vibing with the decision to send Allison to try to kill Amand I think their scenes continue to be really good and the fact that those characters have such a depth of history together makes these moments really charged in an effective way when there's no person there's no character better equipped than Allison to say to Ranera I told you this was going to happen Ranera says you still miss judge me and then within the span of the same conversation proves Allison's point right that's like delicious and very dramatically compelling to watch I will keep watch over her until you return like I'm a Darcy's delivery fat yeah very very good do you think that Ranera is going to net because Ranera was very interested to learn that Helena was a dreamer I'm scared that Ranera knows that Helena's a dreamer I'm is she going to go ask Helena what have you seen sure I just don't like Ranera should not have that information just for Helena's sake Danie's the dreamer that's what you wanted to ask us about right I was just that that they make reference to that I was curious if you could tell you also some Targaryens can see things they they're called dreamers and Danie's the dreamer was the person who when the doom of a lawyer happened was like hey we should go a Cassandra figure sure essentially and she's like hey we should go and some people listen and those who didn't died and that is Danie's dreamer her father in our Targaryen believed his kid so believe me inside of the family who's like okay and everybody laughed at them and boxed them the Targaryens were the only dragon riding family for a reason they were the only family he listened to his own kid they left this was years before the doom they got to drag and so they brought five dragons with them everybody else dies in the calculus when they're no more dragon riding lines left right so the fact that this connects not only to that kind of seed of Targaryen might in the Targaryen view that they're closer to gods the men that's all very present for Renera receiving this but this connects to the prophecy obviously because that came to us inside of the show as we talked about earlier in the series that was like new canon for us in the show that egg on the conqueror had this dream so it took learning that he was a dreamer that he had this specific dream that this was passed down the series had you know so death really wanted to be a dreamer as we heard so the people who were like most consequential and Renera's history in this respect the Sarah's who put all of the stock in this dream and egg on who started all of this the conquest for the family had a dream so Renera hearing this there's like nobody I would say more fully primed to hear that and be like oh yeah then Renera scary yes and you know it was interesting certainly to hear the way Allison talked about the dreams I found that kind of sad but there was something very sweet about it but also it brought up a lot of the earlier season like what if this these family members had just talked to each other a little more like a question we used to ask was to Viserys ever talk to his own daughter about being a dreamer you know and to see this this you know the Helena was stitching this vision onto the tapestry Helena loves to put her dreams into arts and crafts she just draw them on the mirror on the wall now she's doing if we find out that Helena has been the one stitching the opening credits tapestry all this time I'm going to feel bad about some of my critiques on it this season because I'm really team Helena yeah I love her so we've got a couple of plotlines that I think we end this episode that there is a statement of what's going to happen next in terms of like egg on and I thought Tom Glyncarnie and his one brief moment in this episode is terrible his test for Thailand and his just like silent failed so and being like all right we'll go to SS you know what I mean uh you're not going to tell me the cold hard truths like Laris did so I'm going to pick Laris's plan yeah so they're going a little bit of character for you know SS uh Coralus has been kidnapped Ranera's got wait so on the Coralus front my read on that was and that was another one where I thought okay how did it like how does Bull John Ryerson know exactly where Coralus is and get there that quickly and stuff like that but Orman was very pro Coralus yes yeah he was like one good choice Ranera made yeah making Coralus her hand hilarious when Darren's like what about my grand sire and auto and he's like auto I'm going like dude you're talking about my dad yeah so you said I'm going to break for a second from you talking shit about my dad so we sent John to kidnap Coralus because he wants to either have one of his team because because he's like if you're pissed at Ranera yeah perhaps you want to be on my team yeah now just what I also get the information that the Kingsguard or the Knights the Gold Cloaks have been reinforced by Valarion man I can't remember Valarion man I mean he knows he seems to know everything thank you for asking everywhere that was another note I had on the petition scene Ranera just says that into a roomful of strangers where she's like guess what like the Valarians are coming into like you're gonna have like yes I definitely think someone in that throne room was working for Orman when they're like you saw yeah for you're very ineffective the don't let them see you sweat when she's like those are high tower crimes but then just saying this is the very specific and detailed rundown of the plan to fix this yeah that is you have to assume that's gonna get back to your foe so I do think I think that Orman went to kill those men who were coming to replace the Gold Cloaks and kidnap Coralus and try to recruit and try to recruit him so I didn't I don't think I think you guys are right that it's entirely possible like it's Coralus dead I mean if you're watching this show you're probably like I've seen enough people not be dead yeah yeah and yeah but I feel like they're setting up Orman making the pitch yes yeah um and then Allison on her way to Heron Hall but Amin recovered now and with a hot witch with GF yeah with a mom and a set of the mom who won't fuck up so something to think about darks Tully's crew rolling towards Templeton correct right now without the slowdown tactics a fortnight away of Kristen Cole nobody knows Kristen Cole's dead will anyone care hmm um so tough for Kristen he just wanted not only the song but for Allison to hear it shouting we like the way sad house high tab we're really sad very tough I'm sorry I'm sorry Chris that you're fair it's okay you know maybe he was slowing things down who knows but you're you're still team green you're still wearing green in support of them somehow Grasso has returned yeah I still have hopes I Well, setting up, I think, for, like a really impactful Gawain stretch, Gawain feels like he's really centered in the story right now, which is, I think, very exciting. I love Freddy Foss. You can listen to Mal and Joe talk more in depth about this episode on Tuesday on House of R, and you can listen to me on the watch on Mondays and Thursdays. We're recording this a little bit early, so have a lovely Comic Con. I know we'll be over by Sunday. We, of course, did not see scenes from next week, so if any of our questions are answered or whatever. Of course, this is just on the next time. Yeah, sorry, and we'll be back next Sunday night for the penultimate episode of the third season. Bye.