‘House of the Dragon’ Season 3, Episode 5 Reactions | Talk the Thrones

(phone ringing) - Hello, and welcome to Talk the Thrones. I'm Chris Ryan. I'm joined as always by Joanna Robinson and a Daren Tergaryen coin collector. - Yeah. - It's Malory Ruben. - It's you, it's you. - We are here to break down the fifth episode of the third season of House of the Dragon right after this. (upbeat music) (upbeat music) - You can check out Mal and Joe going deep on this episode on House of War on Tuesday. Andy and I will casually and superficially chat about it on Monday, on the watch. We're gonna get into this episode with the recap. - I'm excited. - Right after this. - Feeling any unusual pressure today after Joanna's 10 out of 10 no notes performance. - This has been a time of the ringer where people are trying out for other people's gigs. It's really exciting. - You know, you're excited to be in the BS chair. - Exactly. - So we'll see how everything shakes out and then you'll answer your question. No, it was, you were amazing. All the CR Cosplay was very, very touching. Look, this episode felt a little bit more like jumping into a Ken Burns documentary midway through for me and then telling myself that I would pick things up on the fly. We've got the Black Alliance starts trying to forge a river to get to Tumbleton. What river? - Blackwater rush. - Wouldn't you like to know? - Yeah. - I mean, I was gonna say that. - Yeah. - The problem is Kristen Cole's band of Raiders with born to lose tattoos are going, are doing the guerrilla warfare thing up and down the countryside. In Herron Hall, various groups of men keep showing up looking for Amin and Alice Rivers. Keeps telling them, Amin, who? And then they don't leave. She lets the Castle walls do the talking. Also haunted, Amin, who is in some room, somewhere in Herron Hall having bad dreams that he knows her memories while Alice gives him the old, if I inflict the pain baby only I can comfort you, which is the first time the Afghan wigs have been referenced on our podcast. Back at King's Landing, it's time for, in the words of Jonah Hill and knocked up another Schmorschen on this show, Dr. Orwile, with the plan B, this time for Helena, who is with child at absolutely the wrong moment. But Helena is listening to Papa Don't Preach in Her Room, and she's keeping the baby. What I didn't expect was from Rosario to be creeping on the situation, catching Alice in with the potion almost on her person, leaving Ali no choice, but to down the Elixir herself. Mother knows best, in the sea sweet. -Ranira is dealing with her usual band of bothers, including the phrase who are mad about the Stark's crossing the twins. -Bad about being denied Herron Hall, which was promised to them. -They have lots of things that they're mad about then. -She says, "Do you let them cross the twins?" -She's for Herron Hall, they didn't get. -She got dragon riders who can't find Amin's dragon, a master of coin, who is a master of gossip, a master of whispers, who believes in healthcare for all, and a brother lover, who believes in avenging the deaths of some gold cloaks found dead in flea bottom, even at the cost of publicly defying his queen. I got to say, man, Christian Cole needs to stop listening to The Smiths. He is out there in the beautiful sunshine with his boys, the lads. They're burning up the posing camps and destroying river passages. Wayne is offering of a plum job. -Sounded wonderful. -Exactly. -Bad if that's bad. -Yes, I'd be up. -What more could he want, a noble death? Apparently, that's what he wants. -He heard that word serve, and he said, no, thank you. I'm out. -The Cole crew is chasing all over trying to win an unwinnable battle as they hope and pray that Amin comes to their rescue. But it seems like Christian views this struggle as more than just green versus black. It's haves and have nots. And he thinks he's been sentenced to death by a power of great on the Targaryens, right? Kind of, right? -I mean, I was waiting for you to comment on the leeches being on the thighs this time instead of on Gendry's dip. I've already gotten that in text format, so let's look at it here and tell Michael. -While Christian accepts his fate, Damon thinks he can root out and rest. If he just cracks enough heads, gold cloaks keep getting got. And it looks like this insurgency is being funded by Ormond Hightower, who continues to tutor Derenty in a semi-creepy way. -Semi-creepy? -Semi-creepy? Well, you're just, you're remaining patient as you observe more, okay? -You're hoping for all the results to come in. -Ever the team green lines. -So, we're not calling the selection an hour afterwards. -All this is happening while the actual king of the realm is still alive and well. -Exactly. -I don't dare you. -Well, you really are, team green. -Yeah, outrageous. -We didn't do the proper process of unseating him. Am I an Aegon truth or perhaps? -He's wandering the woods with Lairys. Pining after his not dead dragon and perhaps taking the wrong lessons from Lairys' pep talk. When the duo get back to the Riverman camp, they meet up with the Lannister who wasn't beheaded. And then as they plot their escape, Aegon is discovered by the camp bully, but Aegon still has that dog in him. And winds up stabbing the dude to death, much of the bemuse chagrin of Lairys. And that was Jason Lannister. -No, awesome. -Tie Lannister. Jason got his egg on, okay? Here's where we end things. Allyson and Helena try to escape, get caught, try to escape again, only to get trapped in a secret passage. Damon tortures the high tower plot out of a flea-bottomedenzi and only to find out that the rebellion has taken most of his beloved goal cloaks. Chris and gives a St. Chris Pins Day speech. Damon and Allyson fanfic is being written. And Raniera is spinning out as the line between friend and foe. Gross blurry. Very good. We back. Thank you guys. -Yeah. -Hello. -Hello. -All right. Fun episode. I felt like I was just saying before we started recording, this was like the best possible version of a season two episode. -We've got a lot of people being like, we're on our way. Just you wait until I get there. What did you think of the episode? -I really liked it. It did feel like a mid-season episode. But I think what it has, the advantage it has of our season two is that they've done, first of all, characters are spread across the map. So we're sort of hopping back and forth into people and they've done a pretty good job of installing characters that we care about at each location so that when we hop around, we're invested. Tyler and Lannister lives. That was-- -Yes. -I counted him out. Mallory was faithful to-- -I was on the show. We were like, "That guy's severely dead and so inessential that we didn't see his death." -Mallory from the beginning was like, "No way, Tyler and Lannister is dead." And to be fair, the book supports her claim. But it's an adaptation. I didn't know what was going on. But he lives. What do you make of his disguise? He's there in like Velvitz. How do you feel about his incognito, Tyler and Lannister? -He looks like a very rich, very fine Lord. And I continue to think that almost everyone in the show could benefit from better disguises, though. -Alison traded a seven-point-and-star necklace for the maid garb and what good did it do? They got four paces before I'm sorry about that. -Two maid garb. -I got to say, fool me once, shame on me. But like, it's or shame on you. But like, Alison just being like, "I can't believe I've been betrayed by the staff at this castle for the ninth time." -I wanted to start-- Well, Mall, what did you think of the episode? -I really enjoyed it. I think the season's been great so far. And I think that the fourth and fifth episodes did feel different than the first three in terms of the spreading of the map, the number of characters, the moving across the board compared to these massive grand declarations and set pieces. But in a way that I think feels like welcome and nice and probably in the middle of the season necessary, I feel really confident that we're setting up for a strong finish here. Okay, so this episode featured dozens and dozens and dozens of cats. The cats are here in the red keep. Alan's plan put into action immediately. Has Phoebe sent the-- -So then he can get those rats. So I'll be receiving a text for Phoebe about the cats. So that was very welcome. And I think just in general, Chris, I know in a second here, you want to talk about the character sets, right? And I think that thematically across those sets, the assessment inside of this episode, the study of balance of self-awareness and blame, right? When are you pointing the finger and blaming someone else? When do you have any ability to look internally and see what accountability and culpability you bear? But also, when is the person in the scene, in the storyline with you, speaking the truth to you, and then are you capable of receiving it? Like, who is being coddled, who is hearing a hard truth, who is maybe in a magical castle where they are receiving a hard truth via slightly tweaked trauma dreams, and then also being coddled and cradled in the fetal position whispering motherhood. It's all happening, so that's very satisfying. Yeah, but I'm most excited that you didn't miss a big Kristen Cole episode. So we got a little Chrissy and going last week, but I think if you had missed this one, which had foreign away in the most Kristen and going in action in the season so far, it would have been a tragedy of effort proportions. So what's it like to be back with your boys? Do you think they-- My boys? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Do you think when they showed up in their matching war paint, do you think they put that on each other, sort of like face-off, waterfall style? Absolutely no question. And we're just gonna say, do we all have other cons immediately after this? Yes, should we do it anyway, for the bit for social? Okay. Maybe. I think that would probably appreciate my makeup. I haven't imagined. Yeah, I wanted to ask if we could put together these characters and sort of define what they're going after, their objectives, their dreams, their hopes, their wants, because in a similar way that we did the where is, everybody a couple of weeks ago, I kind of wanted to do a check-in on like, where are they? their character arcs. - How is everybody exactly? 'Cause I think you've got Renera who's looking for legitimate, and at any moment jump in to bait me, to bait me cowards, just let me know what I got wrong. But you've got Renera who ultimately wants legitimacy and respect Damon wants to dominate. He's looking for dominance. Allison seems to want to escape and anonymity. She's like sort of completely shorn herself of royal fashions, you know, and it's so much so that she's dressing up like, you know, like a maid at the very end. Kristen Kohl, perhaps, wants the same as Allison, but in a more final way. Alice, textually, she wants a Heron Hall, but I think there's something greater than that she wants here, and I've yet to totally understand that, but I also find her quite a big guideline character. Damon, if he wants to sleep for chance to dream, I think he wants those dreams. - I think he is in kind of like a limbo right now, and what, you know, he's expressing some guilt, I guess, or at least some fear that his-- - He's going through Heron Hall therapy. - Yeah, exactly. - He's just like Damon did. - Just like Damon did, right. Aegon wants vengeance, Laras. Is maybe the perfect character for this world because he's flexible. - That Laras scene was incredible. - That, but also his exasperation when he's just like, "Oh, you just fell right here." - Right here. - No, what? - Orman wants power by proxy, Baylon, Adam, one acknowledgement. Darren, we don't know yet. And Darren is a cool character because, as Orman is doing all of this grooming, Darren is just like, "This is a little weird." And I don't know exactly where I stand here, you know? - He's like, "Is Uncle Gwayne a double genius?" - Where's Uncle Gwayne? - And then within this, I think one of the cool things about the show this season is that there are a bunch of pairs of characters, right? So you've got Ranera and Damon together, Allyson and Ranera together, Damon and Allyson together, in some ways Damon and Allyson together earlier in the season. If you and Allyson Aegon, Kristin and Gwayne, Orman and Darren, and in each pair, they have some common ground. But within those pairs, there are schisms. Within those pairs, there are like fractures and fault lines where you can see like, "Well, Damon and Ranera ultimately want the same thing "and when they're speaking Hivalarian to each other, "it seems like they're in a flow state about it." - But then Damon pulls out of, well, I don't know if they're ever pulling out in the, in the Tarks, pulls out of Hivalarian back into the common tongue just to be like, "Let me insult you for everybody in the sap "to can understand me to hear." - Yes. - Yeah. - And then there are, right after she was like, "Oh, the mighty Damon Targaryen, "they sing songs about you." - We'll go on on a marriage stuff. - Yeah, delicious. - Well, I also like the way that some of these characters are paired just based on like theme where you could pair Ranera and Orman together in some ways because it's, what she is sort of saying she wants Orman is actually doing and was that patriarchy or is that a willingness to just be. - He knows the PR game. - Reviled. - Reviled. - Is it the advantage of being the opposition and the rebel or the usurper or like, what is it? - To a certain degree, but it's a war of optics. I mean, and this is what it's always been from the beginning when they crowned Aegon and they're like, he's got the crown, he's got the sep, he's got all the, all these like, home, he's got the throne, like he's got the sword, he's got everything. He's got what we understand a king to be. And for Orman to slap Darren's face on the coin, which is not even what they do in Westeros, is like, I'm winning the branding game. I'm not only having my agent sneak around and murder cops in King's Landing, but like, I'm paying them with coin that's got Darren's face on it. And so I'm also getting the message out while I'm doing it. And on that front, on that big Orman orchestrated Feast for Trader's Moment that ends the episode, like we've been talking sort of like, how much this season of House of the Dragon feels like it's leaning a bit more into the original Throne's tone. And I think this sort of like, almost camp a shock and horror of that scene, which is taken from elsewhere in Fireblood. There's like a different Table O that is reminiscent of that. But like, those kinds of like, it's creepy and it's spooky, but it's like fun and shocking. And a great way to end the episode. And the Remingewati score is giving us those like winds of winter organs. And it's just sort of like, you're like, this feels like Throne's versus something like blood and cheese last season was just felt like bleak. This is bleak, obviously, to see a bunch of guys with their guts out on the table. But it's like the theater of it is just like kind of amazing. So I think that the commonalities in shared intention or divides inside of those character sets is super interesting. But like the parallels across character sets was the most satisfying part of the set. So to me, like, so the coins, to stick with the coins for a second. One side is lamenting the empty coffers that they've arrived to find has no money to run, even attempt to run the realm. Has to go beg their nominal devoted houses and then be on the receiving line of a beggar with a tin cup, a dig last episode, right? Orment has so much money, so many resources, so much gold at his disposal, he can mint his own declaration of intent, right? That is a notable distinction in circumstances. I was thinking back to something like Renera when she heard about Tumbles Inn in the first place after the fake Darren reveal. The line was like, my arm is long. Like he thinks he can get away with this, my arm is long. Whose arm is actually long, currently? Orment has reached into King's Landing through, and this was the casting of the actor with the two different colored eyes, who is the one sending the scrolls to Orment. We recognize him. That's who Alicent initially, before Sir Frederick spelled the way it was, went to on the battlements to let Renera in, so the idea of like being told to put your swords down. It's like, what is the purpose, what is the fight? What have you done with those people, where's your army? Ormit has put them back to use also, by the way, that guy knows what Alicent did, which seems like very perilous for her. So there's that. I think the idea of strength was another one across Ormond and Renera, because you had Damon, and Damon and Renera are not on the same page about this. I think what you identified about legitimacy is the crucial thing for Renera, as is the continued mounting paranoia, which I think we should circle back to. But Damon says, you're the queen of dragons, your strength is your legitimacy. Ormond, who hates the Targaryens, who can't stop talking shit about dragons, acknowledges that they do, in fact, possess strength. That's why I will talk about the Mario Martell stuff later. He's like, I really remark her, and I revere her because she could challenge that strength. So he's not discounting, they have strength. He's like, I can combat it. Can I say on the other hand, though? So they're playing this chest-like games of Os, which is from the book, which is like a really fun, cool thing that they've never done on Throne's Before. They're like, we took this special game that George R. Martin invented. We're putting it on the screen. But there's certain pieces that you have at a game of Savas and Darren wins with a dragon. That end, so it's like, - So that's what triggers him. - Ormond didn't see-- - Well, we used to see the game, and he's a thin skined wand as Goyne calls him. - That's a wookie win on the screen. - Exactly, but he wins there himself. He wins with a dragon move, which just means that Ormond didn't see this dragon move on the table. So on the one hand, he is espousing that the acknowledges his strength of the Targaryens. With the other hand, as we've seen, he doesn't fully understand what a dragon strength is, and specifically, as it comes to Darren, his dragon. - The shots specifically of their hands meeting on the dragon piece at the same time. This season's really been nailing some of the symbolism. It's not always subtle, but I do think it is conveying something very effective. So Darren is like startled, reaches for it to say we can start over. Ormond reaches for it, who can control the dragon? Ormond has literally chained Darren's dragon Sarian in this sept in Tumble Tim. The shot of Alice, of when Amond wakes up and he reaches for the dagger of prophecy, and Alice just tosses it across the floor in her nose. Like this is one of the quietest little best details that we've gotten so far. Egon is carrying around a scale, a dragon's scale, and he's lamenting and he's mourning. Now it's what Egon does good or wise when he stabs Janus with it. No, does it feel notable that he does that with a symbol of his dragon power? I think so, right? And on that like across character sets across duo's front, Egon and Amond are doing the exact same thing in this episode. They're both blaming the other for their ills. Mother always liked him best. Incredible. I mean, incredible Viserys. Damon comp there too, with the mother loved you besting. But like, you know, they're both a little right and a little wrong because they both did horrible things to each other. They also both bear a lot of blame for the atrocities that they have unleashed on the world. So it was a very fun episode in terms of those things. Yeah, I thought one of the things that was really cool about this episode was at his best, I think George R. Martin is really good at taking historical moments or phenomenons from our world and translating them into a fantasy world to show them back to us. Yes. And the idea of an insurgency and almost like the power of an insurgency. So you can do things that this, the people who are actually in power can't do. There's a degree of care, like you can kind of play with house money. And in this way, like Reneira is so concerned with how she's going to be perceived. You mentioned optics before she, you know, every time she's just like, well, do this, everybody's like, well, then everybody's going to say this and say, God damn it. Ormond is good at being like, I'm going to forgive, I'm going to, I'm going to punish my soldier for attacking a lot of people. woman, then kill that woman's husband or brother or whatever, like in front of Darren to show him what real strength is. Make Darren kill. And it doesn't even really feel like that's going to affect my like you reading one way or the other. He's going to play into the fact that Ranera is essentially broke. And he can go around and be like, Hey, if we have a problem, go cut down more trees all the way, all the way, you know, it's he's not the king. Nobody's going to get mad at him, like in the way that they'll get mad at Ranera. So I really love the way that they're using. He's specifically going after all of her little like flaws, everything, every hole in her armor. He's like Pokemon. Yes. And I obviously will probably drive her a bit nuts as she is a Targaryen. Can I, um, I won't defend Targaryens against the madness accusation again, but can I, can I talk about this Maryamartel story that normally is because so Darren, this was the other cool thing. It's, you know, this show sometimes nods to the show that will come, but this was a moment where I felt like they were telling us something about the story we're watching by going into the history of the realm, but also kind of telling us a little bit about what will happen down the line. And I loved it. I loved it. I loved this moment. I also felt like putting Darren on the coin was Orman kind of being like tell Cersei it was me. You know, I wasn't. Yeah. He, he knows that they know where Darren is and who he's with, you know. So anyway, please tell me a little bit about this story. Well, I just think it's, uh, it feeds into what you're talking about. Like, I was thinking about when we were watching Andor and you and I were talking about like the French resistance or what we were doing and like the, the, so for Dorn, this is sort of like nobody can conquer Russia sort of story, the sort of Napoleonic winter campaign story in a couple of ways because there's all this sand expands that you have to get across in the way that like Napoleon's army is like, it's cold and we don't know we're starving and we can't get there. And Hitler did the same thing. It's like, this is a reason why Dorn is an independent kingdom. It's come up a couple times this season. That's part of the reason why. But also Miriam Artelle as this cany strategist who, when during Aegon's conquest, when they sent a dragon down, uh, to intimidate her, she's like, Oh, yeah, yeah. Okay. Sure. No problem. And when they invade bodily, all the castles are emptying. They're like, you take it. Right. That's fine. And then once the dragon leaves, and it's just the, the Targaryen loyalist there, the Martels come up out of the sand, not literally, but kind of, and just take back their castles. Yeah. You know, so the way that Orman was like, Oh, Damon, you're going to take Darren and I, I'm going to go home. Sure. No problem. Like that's a real Miriam Artelle move. Yeah. Yeah. Um, and then they also killed a dragon and Aegon's favorite hottest sister wife. You know? This is, uh, this is the, the legacy of Dorn is that they brought down one of the original conquering dragons and dragonwriters of Aegon's conquest and it's part of why they were able to stay independent and negotiate with the dragon house back and forth for so long. So this idea of like this woman who used her brain to outsmart the, by being outgunned, but outwitted the dragons and just sort of like for Orman to look at Dorn and say, these are the people who said you have a dragon. I don't give a shit and I'll figure it out anyway. That's no wonder. That also felt very dune, you know, like the power, I also like that it was a, a slight echo of something that happened maybe in the previous episode where Damon knows a couple of episodes ago where Damon is sort of trying to G up Reneira and just like, let's go get, let's go get Dorn. Yeah. And it's like, well, this has been something that's kind of, you know, it's been stuck in the Targaryen Craw for a while, the idea that they have, this is the one thing they haven't been able to take. No, no question. I mean, I think that the arrested development and game of thrones contingent in the audience will have a little bit of a narrator like eventually they bow, they bend their brain, you know, which is part of what's interesting about it. Actually, this idea that, I mean, first of all, there's just the, you know, Orman is such a Tar Gracist, but he's also so sexist that the fact that the only woman in the history of the realm he can find a way to praising is one who outfacts the Targ's and even then he's like, let me list all the things that really were like, what? And oh boy, not Walker, like just classic Orman, the card did smell good. Yeah. Yeah. I think the fact that he's like, Miraxies was a victim of this war, this dragon is very clearly inside of the Orman, we've come to understand over these few episodes. The fact that he is not heating the other part of the lesson, which I think is particularly interesting, given that we have compared him to Tywin a lot, we've propped him up. I think rightly so far, including just what we've talked about today, as a PR and like strat, strat, a strategic genius, right, is he's not thinking about the Darren question, which was a good one to pose. Here we're a villain, you know, the thing that you're describing sounds pretty fucked up and foul and I think what's interesting is not just that Orman and Darren, of course, aren't seeing it the same way, like we understand enough about both of their characters for that to feel right. It's at the realm of that same question, Mary Martell was greeted by many in the realm as a coward and her tactics were considered deeply like base and treacherous, right? Not acting with honor. I think the fact that that is of no concern to Orman, yeah, because they all bent and he's the Targaryens and she fucked them up and took their hands and all these others that they lost. Yeah. So he's not concerned about being held in a sort of, I mean, yeah, she's a fascinating character. But he's not like, do I need to be worried about how like a campaign like that might be received? He doesn't, despite all of the like, okay, the people of Templeton are watching me receive this complaint. I need to think about that. He doesn't care about the broader implications of that because he thinks he as a high tower superior man is above any kind of ramification from that. You know, the sort of nature of this episode was interesting because I missed last episode doing it with you guys. And they- He missed doing it with you. But there is like almost like a weird kind of disorientation by not talking about it with you where I'm like, okay, so all of these guys are kind of spread out and they were all given original marching orders. I need you to go to Harrenhal. I need you to do this. I need you to go cut these people off. Now we're going to turn around and go to Templeton. And I was amused by how much raven action there was last week, you know, with just like, I got this new email, I got to check, you know, like, I do feel like this is a real fog of war moment for this whole group of people because there are so many people who seem to just sort of be like, I don't really even know what the objective is now. You know what I mean? Because we're kind of waiting for so much stuff to happen. Well, Kristen certainly. Yeah. And Gwen certainly. I think what I love about this is, you mentioned that this reminded you of a season two where all marching towards something, but it's not just sort of like, let's, let's not make it feel like nothing's happening between battles. So we have the Riverlanders and the Winter Wolves, which is, you know, the troops that Damon told to march down to Kinglandia and now been redirected to Templeton. Yes. And that's the old dude and the young boy that you saw who's the young boy. That's Oscar Tully. Oscar Tully. Yeah. I spent much like much of season two with as he was trying to win the Riverland. And the Tully's are the twins. That's the phrase. No, that's the phrase. Yeah, so Tully's of Riverland. That's a cat, cat star, cat star from season two. But the Riverlanders are like, when they did, when they did the fish feed battle at the big name of season, those, those are the men that Damon was fighting us, right? And so they're on their way down and Kristen coals like, well, we don't know where vague our name and are. So all we can do is slow their progress. And Gwein's like, can we take a bath and a nap? I'm so miserable. So all Kristen and Gwein and the rest are trying to do is slow down or stop the progress because they're outmatched. They can't fight them. Slow down the progress of the Riverlanders and the Starks on their way to Templeton. But there's this guerrilla warfare back and forth between the two. And then Orman as he waits in Templeton is, you know, staging elaborate intestine feasts in King's Landing. Like fun, active stuff happening while we've got dragon riders who are essentially sitting they're watching. Templeton, I could burn it to the ground. But that would essentially ruin Ranera's reign. Yeah. And that's one of the things Ranera talked about last episode, right? This idea that a recognition, even if she was saying, what is it? What is this about? What is this plan? A recognition undeniably that Templeton raised Ranera's banner. So Orman taking that seat, not only is it geographically proximate, you know, we hear like, there's no battlements. This is, there's not fortified for battle. It's like trying to provoke her into attacking her own defenders, her own loyalists so that she would be, you know, Megor returned is what she says previously. So that's in place still. I thought that like a visual like Kristen being in the Vigar dragon footprint was effective in a couple ways, like thematically, it's a reminder of this thing that happened at Rook's Rest that triggered this massive change in Kristen's circumstances and set him on this nihilistic stage. That's one of you. That's one of you. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. What does it mean to be a man in a dragon or a world, right? But it also is just like helpful to think about the board and where the players are because like we also see in this episode, Bella, and you know, as you noted, Hugh and all for monitoring Templeton, but Bella and Adam with C-Smoke and Moon Dancer are out looking for Vigar and they're like, okay, two days behind Wendish Town, right? Okay. Here's some scorcher on a farm. Here's the footprint. It's not, everybody is like, you've been directed toward Templeton or we're going to try to go and stop you as you try to hit your mark. Everybody's also like looking for Vigar or trying to trace that path or crossing that path. So it's a question of who can get where first or get ahead of the other person. obviously they're, I think, very. satisfying moment when Kristen, who said, "We'll be the scorpion on the axe, we'll be rates." You know, fear is our standard. Last week is like doing that effectively for a little while and then it's like, wait, fuck, are they the rates? We got here and they beat us and the bridge is burnt and we can't cross and then it decides he doesn't carry anyway and I'm excited to hear your thoughts as the world's leading Kristen offender. But, you know, there are other areas where people could converge before everybody gets to the place they're actually trying to march. - Kristen could also just be like, I did my best. Well, let's go back to Old Town and I mean, I like-- - Yeah, but, Kristen, he doesn't. Where are you on, Kristen? What did you think of this? Gawain makes him this offer. Calls him friend a couple times and Kristen decides that's not the choice he's gonna make. - Well, two of these issues serve our house there. - I don't think he entertained it. - I don't think he entertained it at all. I mean, yes, he probably committed a conversational faux pas by saying serve, but I think that Kristen has decided that whatever he has done in his life and whatever he has seen with his eyes means that this is his last mission, like, cumulatively and like, you know, whether or not he's damning other men to death because of that and he could maybe-- - I mean, he literally did in this episode. Guys are dropping dead in the mud as they're hiking and it's just like, leave him there. - He's like, we'll swim. - Yeah. - I want to talk a little bit about this sort of like, original love triangle or quadrangle square. Love square. Between Damon and Ranera and Allison and Kristen Cole because like, it's all very much in play here. When Allison just talking to Missaria and she's like, Ranera chose Damon long ago and you do think she's gonna pick you over Damon and the way that Allison's talking about it's like, so clear, this is what she says. She says, when his son shies on you, you feel, no, that's Jennifer Garner talking about Ben Affleck to Vanity Fair. (laughs) Basically, she's like, she's like the warmth of Ranera's gaze. She's talking about this long ago original scene that she sees it, of Ranera choosing to like, have an incestuous love affair with her uncle rather than stay on the path with Allison. And so that original wound for Allison. And for Kristen, Ranera didn't choose him, right? And so he says, they'll sing songs about it and Queen Allison will hear them. So like, he's put in, and Gwen's like, oh, buddy. - I know. - You're like, top one. (laughs) - This wound that Allison and Kristen, I think, feel of wanting Ranera's love and not having it, is such an interesting mixer. - And I think Ranera is the toughest character to dramatize in this show because she keeps being trapped in one room, you know what I mean? She keeps getting trapped in these situations where she's got this frustrating cabinet that she's negotiating with or frustrating lover that she's negotiating with or frustrating best friend. But like, she gets so little action, right? She has to basically externalize a lot of her feelings about where she is and who she is, like, to these different characters. And, you know, I do feel like, ultimately, she's somebody who's just the thing that she believes in, most is what her father told her about her fate. And that's gonna cost her a lot in this life. And it's gonna probably cost her closeness and friendship and lovers and all these things. And it's, but she has one clear idea, which is that dad said that I was the one. And that has to justify all the bad things that happen. - Points to her for not saying, "Dad said I was the one, "so I really can do whatever I want "if it's in service of that," you know? - I would, I would posit that that happens routinely. That every time she invokes the will of the gods, it is to that end, to say that my decisions are justified, even when she talks-- - When they were talking about the seven and they're like at the end of these, like, well, you know, like, if this, if I'm queen, God wills it to be so. - Right. - So this is then, like, the seven should be kissing my ass, basically. - If this is their will and who dares stand in my path, is this thing that she really resets in this episode? - On the one hand, but on the other hand, this sort of idea of half measures when Damien's like, we should have burned them. And we had the chance, like, first the button then. - I mean, of course he's right, but also, like, the fucking gall. Like, you were the one who took the wrong kid and didn't even, like, fact check in real time. - Absolutely. - So incredible stuff from Damien as always. But, yeah, I think Renera's presence in absence is, like, such a palpable weight for all of these characters. I love that observation. It's particularly delicious to think of, like, invoking the specific passage that they use in this episode that they bring back. You know, it's the one from the fourth episode of season one that Renera snuck out and the bowels of the pleasure done with Damien. Why is it blocked? Why does Allison find it blocked? Because of high-tower interference, the irony of this, of Allison being undone by auto coming in and trying to, like, put Renera on blast to Viseris. High-tower interference to try to stifle and suppress Renera is the thing that actually leads to that being blocked off now. - I couldn't remember. Is that, like, confirmed? Or did it, is it, that is the same tunnel? - No, no, I know it's the same tunnel. - No, I'm just, I'm just making a-- - An alternate idea is that post-butt and cheese, because-- - But they blocked them all. - Different door. - Yeah, different. - That came in an image room, a different door. But like, I was wondering, like, we don't know the answer. Was it because of auto and auto's, like, block up the princesses, like, you know, sneaky go out to fuck her uncle passage? Or is it, like, hey, some rat catchers murdered the air to the throne? Let's block up all the passages. I don't know the answer. - Yeah. - There used to be some really handy wall sconces down there that were not there. - I know. - It's like the effect of history reaching in to suppress and stifle them. I loved that in the Masaria conversations, Allison, I thought, shrewdly will it work out? I don't know, but shrewdly was like, not just invoking Damon, but also invoking the, you're gonna trust a dragon rider. Like, just reminding Masaria, who we know, if we think back to Masaria's original relationship with Damon, like, you're not one of them, and you actually, like, don't want to be one of them, and they have a thing that you don't. You know, the marriage proposal such that it was that Ranera made to Damon in season one episode seven was like, we were made to burn together. - Yeah. - Allison is being deliberate in her tactics here to try to survive Masaria being on their trail here on their case, but like, what she's saying is not wrong. She's like, girl, she dumped me, she's gonna dump you. - Yeah, and this is the end of that. The way that you carry that through your entire life. You know, Kristen's saying last week, like, there's no home for me when it's the Ranera on the throne. It's like, with Ranera, with Ranera dumps you, you never get over it. - Yeah, that's just a fact. - I mean, it's, there's also, it's interesting to see characters block off their own passageways. You know, like Damon, obviously, portrays Alice, turns his back on her, she turns his back on him. He's kind of stuck, quote unquote, with Ranera, who he's also lying to about Ranera and the sheep's dealer. To that Alice point, like, she refers to Ranera as the ungrateful queen in this episode. - Because she supplied her with the reason. - And she didn't get her hair on. And like, that was Damon in real time. - Yeah, I would argue that's Damon's off. - Yeah, and that's Ranera's, but it's all, that's all kind of connected to what we're talking about today, which is so much of the blame, whether it's right, or deserved, ends up falling on Ranera, because all eyes are on Ranera, and she, just as to your point about like, "Orman has the luxury of kind of operating in the shadows in a way Ranera doesn't, even if the culpability is on one of her lieutenants, the blame is gonna lie with her." - Yeah. - Alice, I'm sure it's also quite mad at Damon, right? But it feels notable that she's like the ungrateful queen. - I wanted to ask you about one of the last shots of this episode, which was the sort of last supper of the goalclubs and the graffiti upon our feast of traders. Clearly, like, something done to unnerve and to take away from Damon's sense of security as much as it is the Targaryen, like Ranera's as well. But the goalclubs, I mean, just for folks at home who may be more casually watching, what's the difference between them and say, well, there's the King's Guard, Queen's Guard? Are the goalclubs the same thing? - No, that's the cops, the cops, the cops. - Okay, and then this is when Missaria is like, well, maybe they wouldn't be getting targeted if they didn't react to every infraction with like extreme violence. - Right, if they hadn't been like, we're looking for a graffiti artist, we're gonna beat everyone, but also they're not getting paid. So the fact that Orman has the intel that the city watch, you know, is being brutal. So the people will rejoice when the city watch are killed in this drain. That Damon in particular is pissed off about this and this is a real wedge between Damon and Ranera. I mean, it's just like a perfectly targeted moment after, you know, you mentioned Christen Coles' Christmas Day speech, but Damon gives a big motivational speech in this episode to a room of people who will be corpse before the end of the episode, you know? So like, and Damon is dealing with this, like how much Damon cares, it's unclear, I'm forever tracking what Damon actually cares about, but it seems like he cared about Simon Strong dying. - Yeah. - It seems like he cares about Raina and her safety and it seems like he cared about the goalclubs. These are the guys who showed up for him when he stormed, you know, the red keep and we're like, Damon gave us these cloaks. We're gonna show up for him and now they're all dead. - Yeah, I think that's the way that Ranera and Damon in that wonderful set scene, you know, such an interesting and perfect setting because that's a location we associate with, Allison to Ranera across time and then got a version of it in a different location with Darren and Ormond last week, you know, because there's the comedy of Ranera being like, you know, we just, we're greeted with Damon's laughter before we see him finding Ranera that are like pretending to pray, right? Because the faith rejected Ranera. I said, I won't, you know, the high seventh one's like, [BLANK_AUDIO] No one knowing you what? So Reneira is thinking about what is necessary, but like to what extent is that the right move to make here? The fact that in this conversation, they were talking about ultimately the same thing, which is this incursion into their, the closest thing they have right now in this place to an army, right? Because the rivermen are still trying to reach them. 40,000 strong, still trying to get there and also have been redirected. So like get there when, right? - They just got an organ trail there when it comes to the river. - No, I fought it, fought that river. - Cock the wagon, guys. - I mean, please, sir. - There's a circumstance that's undeniable. Damon is like, men have done this, and men can be found. There's a practicality to the way Damon talks about it. That is, I think, of course, probably unmoored for him when he looks at the uncanny horror of the specter in front of him even though that was staged by men, right? And done by men or that little girl was sent to maybe kill them, fascinating stuff. Maybe that's just one of the little birds for the other side. But Ranera talks about it in the most existential, philosophical, religious, spiritual terms. Something stirs against me. There's this concession first, right? 'Cause so much of the early episode from Ranera is like, that small council scene, everybody's bringing up other points from Ranera keeps going back to Vegar and Damon. Vegar, Vegar, Vegar, Vegar. So initially, there's a like, okay, yeah. The enemy is within and I need to focus on that, but the way that Ranera talks about it, something stirs against me. Something crouched, something formless. I feel the dread of it. I got like a chill listening to that. And I think we've been talking and using the word paranoia to describe the state Ranera is moving into the last couple episodes. This is an interesting moment to consider that because Ranera is right. Ranera is definitely right. And so often paranoia carries this connotation of like you're thinking that you're sensing things. It's basically what Damon says. You hear the wind and you think it's a moment, right? Ranera is right. However, that does not mean that those like, tendrils don't root themselves so deeply into her that the paranoia that unfurls from there becomes impossible to contain. And then what is the cost? Because trust is already so thin. - I also think that if Missaria winds up keeping Allison's secret, then that's Damon keeping a big secret about Raina from Ranera. And that's Missaria keeping-- - Finding out that even the world was like, this is the last time I can do this. I've got to tell the Queen from here. - Right. - She still brings it in. - Did it hit me in Ranera? I've kind of like been bonding. - Can we talk about Helena for a second? - Sure. - I thought she was really good in this episode. And like I think they've done, I mean, I think Fiya has always been really good as Helena, but this is like my favorite Helena episode and performance and-- - Because she was feeding the cats? - Probably. I don't know. We're trying to figure out what she was doing on the ground with that bull perhaps. - She was feeding the cats. But like just, you know, Fiya talked in the behinds, the actors talked about them behind the scenes sort of like, this is the first thing that Helena has that is her own. And that's like one of her lines in this episode. But to like-- And Vian talked about this last week on Talk Throne's, but like to give that character something that is hers and her motivation-- - Yeah, I just like, I've had a vision. - Yeah. - But there is no fire. - Yeah, exactly. - Okay, yeah. - So that was a sick lie. - That was really good. - And she's like, I've been visiting. - This is a dream. - It's a nasty dream. - What's going on? - I have the tire like possible. - But for her to be like, it's mine, like it's mine. And you can't tell me what to do. And I just thought that performance is really good. And I'm just so like locked in on Helena and what's going on with her. This is a-- - And it's a young baby. - We think so. - Pre-Rook's rest before the cock exploded like a sausage on a spit. Nice timeline clarity there. - We got an email from a listener who was like, every time you guys say that, but that anatomy is not your own. You can't talk about it that way. - I was like, it's canon. We're just quite inclined to say. - My culture is not your culture. - I thought the Helena Allison plot in this episode was also a great portal for us to think about the role that lies play in this world and with these characters because as Helena calls out, Allison, I love this. We think of, I think of Allison. We think of Allison as a very-- So often on her back foot and off to put it in a fair position by other people, but a very composed, thoughtful, articulate character. The stammering in this, this is why it's actually gonna be okay to leave Jehara behind sequence with Helena and Helena's like, you look away when you're lying. - Look away when you're lying. I know that you're fucking bullshitting me here. Was so interesting because Allison is trying to get out and is trying to save Helena and has said that this is the most important thing in the world to her. Helena has said she was happier before she was queen. Allison wants Helena to have something that Allison herself has never been able to enjoy, which is a moment of fucking peace and joy. But if the path to achieving that is asking Helena, whose son was already murdered in front of her, to do the thing that Allison right now would do anything to avoid, which is like leave your daughter behind. - Sure. - I mean, first of all, just tells us so much about the world that these are the choices and calculations the characters have to make. But like, when Helena's like, I'm not gonna fucking do that. I'm not leaving Jehara behind. You're like, yeah, tell her, and how could you do that? - Does she understand, do you think the magnitude of what's gonna happen if they find out there's an heir to the throne itself? - Well, Allison tells her as plainly as she could. - Right. - Right? - Yeah. - Like, Renera will kill that kid. - Yes. - So she, I mean, she says that. - Like, she's like, she's basically like, I would if I were her. Like, it's not even like she blames Renera. She's just like, this is what has to happen when there's something like a conflict like this. This is the undeniable thing that Otto prepared, Allison, for the entire stretch of season one with the original cast, like the younger characters. I was thinking back to that sequence from the fifth episode when Otto, one of Otto's many alsters, right? He's on his way out of town. - This is the hands on the other side of the face moment, right? - Yes. And it's the either prepare Egon to rule. Okay, but sub that clause for this circumstance, sub it for anything, right? Or you cleave to Renera and pray for her mercy. Otto's entire also fucked up grooming to the hands on the face visual parallel we've been getting with Ormond, which Joe noted last episode. Renera and Allison still have a depth of affection, but Allison has been weaned for two decades now to understand that whatever our personal love and care they have for each other. - They're on two separate sides. - They have been directed toward a certain inevitable choice. Allison said it to Renera in the third episode, like where, and we hear an echo of it in this episode, wearing the crown, sitting on the throne, it will make you do things that you didn't want to do. And Renera's like, I refuse to accept that, but Allison clearly believes it. - Sure. - And it's some of it is about Renera, it's more about power and that position and the realm, what the realm will demand of you. It's very tragic because it's not like a dismissal of what she thinks is inside of her nearest heart. It's like, that doesn't matter because the world stamps it out of you. It's like really heartbreaking. - The other one in other plot line I wanted to really discuss with you guys was Allison Aiment. - That's what I wanted to talk to you about. You just calling her compelling. Chris, I've never felt closer to you. - It's great. - Tell me about your Alice feeling. - Well, I just think that there, you know, we just saw the Odyssey. Many people have seen the Odyssey by the time we get to this episode. And I like the idea of a time of a parent magic. And the idea of Alice being, you know, in touch with the more like magical elements of this world beyond, you know, dragons and such. But like, knowing that like things happened to build Harren Hall and it explains a little bit more about why she wants to be the sort of landlord of that place. - Yeah. - And whether or not she's gambling at the end there where she's like these guys have come and I think that if I taunt them, this time Aiment's gonna come for me. - I definitely think she's faking damsel in that because when she just like, without breaking us wet, it calls all those bats earlier, you know. - At the moment. - Also incredible sleep. - Move over Bruce Wayne. - Yeah, incredible sleeve acting in Gal Rankin, right? She's now got these like incredible sleeves on her costume and she's just like sashaying her around with them. But like, she has so much power. And so she just sort of like, not only damsels herself in that situation that Aiment comes running out to, but like she gets grabbed and she's just sort of like, oh, and doesn't like make a single move to try to defend herself. I'm like, that's not the Alice I know. And I just thought it was, you know, in the same way that Ormond is tutoring Darren, you know. I think Alice is doing the same for Aiment. And by having him fell those guys, it's like she's still got it. Like, you know, the wound is healing. And you're ready to kind of. - And also she can get. - The two of us against the world, you know what I mean? The way that all of Alice and children, so Aigon with Larris and Darren with Ormond and Aiment with Alice and then Helena with Alice and herself. But like the hard truths that they're learning or the way in which they are being cultivated to like, what does Larris want from, you know, what does it serve him to indulge or challenge Aigon here? What does Alice want? If she's got Aiment in her pocket, right? What does Ormond want as he has Darren in his pocket? So like the way in which these royal children are all being used by these other people around the realm. - I don't think they're the king, but they're all the pawns. - It's also I mean worth noting like when you, we were talking about Alice in being willing to sacrifice to her for saving Helena and also herself. Like this is a person who unfortunately looks at many of her children and is like you're an abomination. - Yeah, and Helena's the one she can. - I don't really know you. Like Darren, like they're like, what's Darren like? And she's like, I sent Darren away when he was like five, you know, like. - She's like, he either has red hair and blonde. I'm not sure. - She said as much about Helena a couple episodes ago, like you. You're the, she may be the one I can redeem. Like, it feels like every, it's very, but I love that she's like, Jeharen, not, I know. It's so, it is so tough. I mean, a lot of characters have, you know, it's a different manifestation of version, but like the parallel with Allison's and Kristen of like, this is the one last stand I can make, right? Redemption in this fashion, fascinating. I, Alice talking about the way the castle breathes. She calls it her. She judges the castle too. You know, it's the life in the stone, the blood in the stone, to pick up the stone to some of the bats by like, before she picked it up and threw it, I was like, is she just like channeling the life force of Harenal? It was incredible. She's about to see this guy. Exactly. Unlimited power. And then like the fact that, that emins, when he comes out into the God's wood, there's a lot of, you know, he, the, the, the dagger, the cast pop play, the dagger of prophecy has been cast aside, but he picks up black fire again, right? So there's still like a symbol of targ power in his hands. But how does he kill the last guy? Throws him on a tree. Yeah. The root blood. Give him some of the roots of the tree. So that's amazing. It fits. On the, the, the sound design front, you know, we could recognize very clearly like, the screams from, from Egon being burned at Rook's rest, the laughter of when he walked in on, on Amen, that the brothel was zilvy. Those are real moments. And we're not inside of Amen's head, other than the fascinating cut to Vigars. I, which is very reminiscent, I think, of the cut to Syracch screeching when Ranero was in, in Libre. And the season one finale in terms of the tie between beast and rider. And then it's like, well, why is Vigar out burning? Is it, because Vigar senses it's what Amen wants? Is it something different? But regardless, like we haven't seen the specifics of Amen's dreams. We hear him talk about it. We didn't show, was like, they didn't love the Amen dreams last season. Let's just give them a quick audio. I do think that's possible. Guys, come on. I'm going to get Amen out of this bed. But we know enough from the ample time we spent with Daemon in those sequences that it's simultaneously like real memories and actual trauma, but with a Herod hallware would pay. This is why I was kind of wondering whether or not there was a degree to which Alice was fathom threading him a little bit. Oh, no question. What ever said each of them? Yeah, and I will carry on. You are. I'm the one who has been grieved, which is like the description that was just issued about a mother because she could deduce so quickly that what Amen did, Amen, has a mommy fetish that needs to be loved by a mother. He curls up against her bosom and says mother. I mean, it's like probably still second on the list behind maybe literally drinking breast milk while being cradleed in Sylvie's bosom last season. But you know, Amen. You said every time it was just warmed up milk. It was warmed up milk. Anything is on offer. And we know this from Little Finger for back in the day. Anything is on offer at these pleasure dens. If you ask, can I hit you with an Alice related and then a related to another question you had for us, sort of sigil moment in sort of this episode? So when Alice calls the bats, that's the sigil of House Heron. Like Heron Hall, like that's their sigil. You asked about the traps that were on the ground that the horse is obsessed on. Those are, they go in crow's feet, right? But they're cow traps. And cow traps is the sigil of House Footly, which is the house at Tumbleton, Lord and Lady Footly. There's a, in there called the bloody cow traps. And it's, it's a, that's definitely like a book reader. - I'm sure that's a big tourist attraction. - A bunch of bloody cow traps, not for you, not your wife. - But. - It's just something you'd get like, lower tier of her mind, you know? Like, that sounds wonderful. - I won't go to the bloody cow trap. - Yeah, I'll sign me up for a three day weekend. - Absolutely. - But they have like a great sort of plowman splatter. - Yeah, definitely. - But yeah, that's so true. - Those are real, those are like, actually like a really fascinating tool of war because the way that they're designed no matter where you, how you throw them down, one prong will be sort of facing up. - Oh, the horse is just early. - Yeah, done so. - Very tough. - Yeah. - I had a couple of like little house cleaning questions. - Yeah. - There's a quick scene where the lady goes up to her near it as like, Joffrey's back. - Yes. - Where was Joffrey? - The Vale. - Why is he back? - We're near, called in. - I was like, he's the air now. - Okay. - So she's like a lost mother kid. - Yeah, gotcha. - And Jane are into Damon last week was like, you gave me a small dragon in the first place, and now I don't even have like that. - Right, Joffrey. - So another retrieved pledge or a pledge that was originally delivered. - Another sort of advertisement from other of the year by her being like, I'm sure he's tired. I'm gonna go like. - I thought that was interesting, given the, I feel like she's scared. - Yeah, the real hold that the loss, I'm very understandably the loss of Luke and then Jace has on Reneira to hear the Joffrey's back in Nacco and then the mirror image of how fake Darren, ultimately, but how Reneira watched fake Darren sleep a couple episodes ago and then is it sweet? - Now, because he thought it was really creepy when she did it with with fake Darren. - I, I don't know if I would say this was sweet. I thought this was quite sad. - A bit of sweet. - I thought this was very, very like heavy watch. - Question we had had for this kid because this kid has been like tiny. Are they gonna recast this kid? But it's the same kid, Oscar Escanazi, the same, the original Joffrey back in the action. - Where'd it go? - Boy, yeah. - So now, just to set up next week, which we have not seen scenes from, so we don't know where everybody is just going. - Oh shit, it's happening. - I'm excited to see what the tease is. 'Cause it does feel like potentially based on where we are in the season one where we might be like, "We wish we'd seen that tease "with the card in top of the grounds." - We're converging on Tumble-to-no, right? Like there's a lot of action going towards Tumble-to-no. There's a lot of like, I mean, there's Tumble-to-no. - Yes, but there's ground-to-cover before them. - Yes, okay. - There's ground-to-cover before them. - Okay, well, we're gonna whisper anything. I had a lovely time being back, talking with you guys about this. We'll be back next week, any final thoughts, any-- - I guess I'm really curious to see how sort of the masses received this episode. Because I can feel like there's a version of response where it's like nothing happened in this episode, which I disagree with, but I think, you know, some people might feel like it's a table setting or a wheel spinning, but like, that's always when like the richest character work stuff happens, you know? - If anything, I thought this was a very dense episode. It was just, like last week maybe did not have a, this happens, you know? - Yeah, well, then a bunch of people were posed with their guts on the table. - Yes, that's right. - I don't know what's gonna happen to Alice in Helena. - No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. - Do you think they will fold the new leg of a cat? - I hope so. - That's, I hope a cat means that. - I think Catm saves the day. - I think it's, Helena uses this, - The cat is entirely possible. - Animal bonds. - Exactly. - The cat is helping Ms. Sorry, it would help them out. - That's also possible. I think that's in the mix. I think it's your dense episode point. We didn't even talk, I mean, we talked a little bit about Lairist, but I don't know, I think, I will tell you the truth, you were a terrible king, but worse than that, you are a terrible man, is like one of the best lines and moments of this series to date. - And then to share an apple. - Yeah. - Red apple. - Mm-hmm. - We'll talk a foot of it in that for the deep dive. Your boy, Lairist or the red apple? - He gave it to someone else, but he had it, which means he wanted it. So, yeah, like, I don't know, that's just a great scene and a great moment. And you have like a lot of really good character beats inside of their dynamics, but also for each of their arcs inside its episode. So, I have a similar question to Joe's, like, I think that there's so much PTSD from the end of season two and the lack of like that really big battle in a moment, which I think we all agreed with and felt and was reasonable, but I wonder if as a result of that, there's like almost such a need now for these big moments, especially because everybody knows, we only have, after this, what are there? 11 episodes of this series left? Is that it, right? That's like not a lot. So, I hope that there's still room in people's hearts for the quieter conversations and rooms, which is part of what we love. - For some of our throwings in the first video. - I feel like it's in the political industry. - This show is close to the original Game Throne series right now, is it? - Yeah, I really agree. And I'm not impatiently tapping my foot for a battle at the same time. I believe there will be a battle next week and I believe there will be a battle in the finale. Yes, and I, you know, I don't know about seven, but there's like two juicy battles coming, you know? - Mallory, Joe Reiner. - Thank you for joining me, thanks to Alana, and everybody for producing us today. - What a squad. - And we will be back next Sunday for episode six. (upbeat music)