Hosting the NCAA Women's Final Four: A conversation with David Gilbert of Cleveland Sports Commission

[MUSIC] Welcome once again to the sports events and entertainment network brought to you by Visit Myrtle Beach. I'm your host, Katherine Nero, and each and every week here on the podcast we talk with the folks that make not just sports ETA great, but sports across the country great. And today we're going to talk about a really great opportunity for all of us to learn at the fate of the master, so to speak. David Gilbert is our guest today. The president and CEO of the Cleveland Sports Commission, among other titles, we'll get to those in just a little bit. But David, first of all, thank you so much for joining us today. Thanks, Katherine, for having me. Let's start first and foremost. Cleveland has, you guys have had a great deal of success here in the last, well, year plus. But the last couple of months in particular, I know a lot of us really sat up and took notice when you guys landed the NCAA Women's Final Four. That's at that right moment when everything was kind of rolling the right direction for women's sports. So tell us about that whole process and some highlights and takeaways that you have from hosting an event like that. Well, one, you know, we, you know, there's part of it is being, you know, we, you know, the whole part of being good and being lucky. And I think this was a little bit of both. And I think I'm not, you know, I don't doubt us being good. But certainly all of us in this industry know landing an event like that, which we were awarded five over five years before the event happened is a lot of work. It was a significant competition. There were a lot of other terrific cities that were in the running for the years that we were awarded the Women's Final Four. And we were thrilled to get it. Well, clearly nobody could have predicted five and a half years before is just the enormous title wave that we've seen over this past year in women's sports, women's basketball in particular. And Cleveland was certainly the, the beneficiary of that. And not that it was anything new, you know, we hosted that event back in '07. And we've really tracked women's sports highly since then. And you know, the whole gender equity report a few years before highlighted a lot of major inequities. So it wasn't something that was just new. But boy, it was, it was magical. You know, the, the following of Caitlin Clark all year and certainly Angel Reese and many others as well. But it was the atmosphere around that event was absolutely electric. And you know, we've been very fortunate over the past five years or so. We've hosted MLB All Star Game and NFL draft and we had the 75th NBA All Star Game. I think just in terms of the sheer electricity, none of them beat the Women's Final Four. That is high praise. Yeah, it was, it was really something. And I think, I think what this year in particular, just from my outside looking in, I think what it cemented is that that event is absolutely the most important women's sporting event every year in the country, if not maybe in the world. And you know, maybe years where there's women's world cup, it's different. But for an annual event. And we really saw the effects of that with the, you know, the arena was going to be sold out no matter what, you know, whether it, you know, selling out in less than an hour versus a week or two for our community didn't make a difference. They were sold out. They were coming from everywhere. But what we saw in terms of the, the grandeur around the event, the people that came to town, the celebrity element just to be there, whether or not they had a ticket. I think was probably fairly unique and novel to, to even NCAA, you know, the folks in, NCAA women's basketball. And honestly, I would say just having known some of them, even since we hosted in '07, I don't know if there are people I could have been happier for. I mean, people who have really worked for, you know, decades to get that event and just to see that, you know, we were just the beneficiaries and really involved over the last couple of years. And I think it's a great thing to have people who, who toyed so hard, Linholtzman so many others. I just felt so happy for them to, to really see the fruits of their labor coming to fruition in that kind of way. It's not every year you're going to catch lightning in a bottle like that, but again, that preparation certainly helps you when it happens. I'm curious, you know, we've heard, you know, the people who came in and who went to that event and talked just like you did about the atmosphere and how incredible it was. What about the community response? How did Cleveland respond to the event? Amazing. I, again, I've rarely seen them. We've been at this 25 years and those are a lot of big major events, rarely seen in event. I don't know what to say, never. It could be, but certainly rarely seen event that the community was so dialed in on. I think, I think there are numbers that proved it. You know, we had, we had, you know, probably twice the best attendance ever for open practice. And we can go on and on about numbers of free events around the community that blew away previous records. And yes, you could, you could say people wanted to see Caitlin Clark and, you know, so many the other stars that were there. But I think what I certainly like to think is that it's also about where women's sports is headed. And if you look at the growth in all of the women's leagues, whether it's hockey, volleyball, NWSL, certainly WNBA, they're all doing extraordinarily well. And the thing I love about this event, Women's Final Four, is there is so much of it that's free and open to the public. At any time you get an event of that stature, you can only fit so many people in a building, naturally based on the constituencies, whether it's, again, take any major event. There's a lot of people from out of town who get tickets that locals don't. Or it's very expensive when they do. NCAA does a wonderful job of having free events that the community can take advantage of. And quite frankly, we created some of our own. We did a lot of lead up programming that was at our own expense with the blessing of NCAA. Because there were things we planned years ahead of time and we need to make sure they were good with it. But ways to use that event as a platform to engage more people in the community, to leave more of a legacy. And that's always a lot easier when you have an event that everybody's paying attention to. It certainly is. And I know feeling is one thing. Atmosphere is one thing. But people like numbers too. So what in terms of economic impact did you guys see as a result? So we just got back a lot of our findings. And we were, I may be off on this a little. I don't have it in front of me. And we were using a number of around 22 million early on as what past studies had shown. And then adding an inflation factor, ultimately it was about 50% higher. And in our numbers, we only use direct spend, not any multipliers. We just feel good about multipliers can be very deceiving. And the one thing you can't argue over is if you use the impact act to lead over direct spend. You can use a two times multiplier and all of a sudden your events twice the impact. To me, it hurts everybody when people do that. So we're just talking about direct spend. But I think it's amazing because there was so much more money spent in the community with the event with a sell out, but the people came earlier and stayed longer. Hotel prices were so much higher. The amount of outside sponsorship from production that was spent in Cleveland that wasn't spent five years earlier on the event because the event is so much more grand. Those are all things that significantly added to the impact of the event in our community. How do you take the lessons learned there in an event like that and apply them to not just other women's sporting events, but just sporting events in general? I think there's a handful of things. One is we love hosting events that have the type of impact and appeal beyond sport that allows us to do programming to we like to think of events as platforms. And so it was a great thing. example of an event that provided a platform to do a lot more in the community. It's more work to do that because there are things that the NCAA or any events rights holder doesn't prescribe that you do. And it's more money raised. But at the end of the day, it's more impactful and, quite frankly, makes the events more valuable. And in many ways, we think makes our organization more valuable to the community. So I think that was one where we learned a lot of extra things we could do, how much we could stretch ourselves, because it was an enormous platform for any type of other major event. I think the other thing is the essence of any great event is you have to plan meticulously enough. So small issues don't become big issues. There are going to be problems. You could plan your kids birthday party. Something's going to go wrong. The cake is the wrong flavor. The clown doesn't show up. Doesn't matter. We all know the stuff. And multiply that by a thousand for a big event. And I think with women's final four, there was a lot of that because there were so many things that popped up that were unpredictable because of this title way that came beyond what anybody expected. And I think if you did the right diligent planning, and I feel like we did with you know, with us and the arena and the mid-American conference, the big partners and our city and other organizations that we got involved clearly having amazing communication with the NCAA and being on the same page. When things came up, we were on the same page. We're able to easily handle it. And or made it easier than otherwise could have been. And I think that it was it reinforced that idea that that about how critical the planning is, way ahead of time and having your communication channels be the way they need to be. So anything that comes up, you can make sure that that things don't escalate. How do you, what does this mean as far as like the way the way you guys attacked this and and and took those challenges and made those little problems go away? What does this mean for what Cleveland might look for in the future or who might be looking at Cleveland in the future? You know, Katherine, we all know this is such a competitive industry and and everyone is always looking for an advantage. And I say that, you know, I've been I've been so lucky to be in this industry now for 25 years. I have so many wonderful friends and and even people with whom we compete are friends. And so I say this really in a in a great way because you know, there's so many people I respect how they do their business and how they position their city. And so you can never be complacent because you know, to us we we having big events that are very successful helps you get the next great event. And you know, the next great event and the next small event because people know if I think if we had said 10 years ago, you know, we had an incredibly successful women's final poor. So that's that's great. I think if they look at this women's final four and knowing how successful it was, it makes us stand out more in terms of our ability to pull off such a great event. And the challenges that that came along with it. And so, you know, we live in a pretty small industry. This whole sports events industry. It's very incestuous. You know, people jump from one NGB to another. They jump, you know, NCAA to somewhere else and back to the NCAA. And you know, we see it a lot. And so building a reputation is hard. And keeping that reputation is also hard. And so for us, it's it's we don't take lightly when we host a big event that's successful and try to think of how do we use that as a tool to not only get more events, but also keep our own community highly engaged and supported in what we do. And and if we do it right, when you host a huge event in your community, especially when you've engaged your community, so they are part of it. They appreciate it. It wasn't some event that just happened to happen in the arena that that didn't engage the community. You it's it's great for all of our organizations and the people who support us. What are some of those ways that you engaged in the engage the community? Because I know there's people living here like, okay, what can we do that can that can make an event bigger than just the event? Yeah, you know, we we look for when we're hosting the, you know, a major youth volleyball tournament or some of those a little harder. I mean, they you can't it's hard to take every event and look for the right angles to engage the community. But we we have actually as part of there's an interesting part of our mission we do our strategic plan and we say we are not a youth sports programming organization. It's not what our mission is. Our mission is to attract major events for economic impact for our city and economic development in our city. However, we have found that it is very valuable. We we I was at we concentrate particular and youth program. That's that is where we concentrate and we actually have a full-time staff person. Her job is nothing but that. But everything we do is tied to events that we host. And so we look ahead at the calendar usually a couple years ahead of time. We pick out certain events that we believe we can tie in the right kind of youth programming. But it needs the right partner organization on the other side that wants to do that. That sees the value of it to make their events more successful. Because some quite frankly it doesn't really matter. Their event is going to be successful as long as they get the right number of participants to come in the right number of teams. That's what they care most about. Some I I put a lot on a particular a lot of good Olympic NGBs really see the pipeline and youth development is very important to them or or other other. So part of his a willing partner a partner who values it. And and does the event have the right platform? Whether it's the sport the accessibility that that allows us to do the programming. And then we have we partner very significantly with with our cities rec centers, particularly for underserved youth. Boys and girls clubs another big partner. And and we look for ways that we can utilize that event as an opportunity for those kids to to not only see an event. But if they're going to see an event we want them to try a new sport. We want them to walk away with equipment. We want their rec centers to be outfitted with that equipment. We we we we we're are now doing a new a new program where we're going to pick one event a year about two years ahead of time. It'll be a different event in different sport every time and do a huge major event. We want to get at each one hundreds of kids. Make sure we can outfit not one or two rec centers and cleave them but everyone. And and we have our associate board taking it on. We found a funder that's going to help do it. And we'll do some new equipment some used equipment. But it's it's something that what we found is when we do that and we do it right those events rights holders that appreciate it. It really elevates they it elevates their event. And they appreciate so much that that we are doing it and we are making their events better and more successful in our community. And and it takes a lot of time and energy and work. We do it as part of our strategic plan to make us a better event hosting city not because we are a a youth programming organization. There are other organizations in the community that do that. But what we do is we are the only one that attracts and helps run and manage events. And and so how do we use that platform as a as as a tool. And by the way it happens to make us more valuable to our city who provides us funding from time to time or who we need as a great partner. It makes us more valuable to our county who provides us funding from time to time as a great partner. It's it's you know our biggest value are the dollars we bring into town that otherwise wouldn't be here. That is that is for some foremost why we exist, why our board supports us. But we found that a great strategy for us in terms of making ourselves a great event host city is to tie in that programming. We mentioned before you've got a couple of titles. The other of course is CEO of Destination Cleveland as well as the Ag greater Cleveland Sports Commission. What does that do? How does that particularly help with big events like the women's final floor? You know it one it's it's a little history behind it. I've been running the sports commission since we started 25 years ago, and then was approached about 10 years in to ask if I want to leave the sports commission and run our DMO destination Cleveland. And ultimately, after I said, no, this is what you could run both. And ultimately, that's what I do. And it's a very unique setup. They are completely separate organizations, separate staff, separate funding, separate missions on myself and my sister are the only shared staff. And there's an agreement between the two for for 50% of my time. So and actually now Kathy Nelson, my good friend who probably most, if anyone who listens to this, you know knows Kathy and Kansas City has a very similar arrangement. And it's, I would say it's not that they're, you know, the downside is just a lot of extra time. You have two boards, you have two everything and and one thing that does help it work. I didn't even realize this when I started it. You know, destination Cleveland is, you know, funded like every DMO almost all by hotel occupancy tax. And sports commission is a classic nonprofit. We, what we kill, I mean, we do a lot of fundraising and and we prior to my running both we get some maybe 12 to 15% of our operating budget is is supplied by destination Cleveland, but that's a board to board thing. I don't, I don't have the ability to move money around. I think what I think the advantage is that the organizations really appreciate each other. And, and we're in the same building. You know, wasn't that way when we started it was hard to have two different locations weren't we about a year in moved into to one building. And, but they have separate areas. But the cultures are similar enough now that the people really see what each other does they understand that they appreciate it. And, and the way our sports commission operates where where you know we have we have 15 full time staff people several several part time we get very in the weeds and running and operating events our DMO does not do that. And sports commission doesn't worry about room nights we don't have a room night goal we never have it's it's economic impact and and direct spend. And when we in many cases the hotel part of an event our DMO will take care of they'll go out and source some smaller ones sports commission will do it for major major major events. It's easier for the DMO to do it they'll they get credit for the room nights everybody wins. I think what I've seen in some cities over the years is there's there can tend to be a competition between DMOs and sports commissions where you have larger independent sports commissions in a city. And and it's not easy you know sports tends to be the the sexier of you know you people don't write a lot about the Ohio music educators association being in Cleveland. And and but I think what's really interesting is we found a lot of ways and this has sort of happened naturally I haven't been the one to have necessarily facilitate. We've had enough really major events over the years where certain big events especially over the last five years when we've had you know MLB all start game and NFL draft and NBA also game women's final four where destination marketing is actually very important we're doing marketing outside the region can help bring more people to town and making event even more impactful. Our sports commission doesn't do that we don't know how to do it it's not our forte it's not those events have provided platform for destination Cleveland to do it and what I love is when certain big events destination Cleveland and the staff gets just as jazzed and just as proud that the women's final four was there and they got to participate in a lot of different ways and they took a lot of ownership in it just like sports commission did in as a win win. I think in some ways that's good when I think that I run both I can try to make sure that happens. And and what's great is honestly Catherine I don't I rarely even have to do that anymore. The staffs know each other they appreciate each other they go to each other for things that I don't even know about. You know our destination Cleveland doesn't do sponsorships sports commission does when they have something that they need sponsors help they'll go to the head of our sponsorship sports commission what do you think about this can you help us with a proposal it's great I love seeing that because in the day it's good for Cleveland yeah and when one wins they both win. The destination Cleveland just hosted something called ASA it's incredibly large and important convention it's American side of association executive is biggest biggest gathering of meeting planning executives in the country very hard to get we put we had a we had to put in or raise millions of dollars. It's great that during the week it was so big and important this was just a couple months ago sports commission staff pitched in to be at the venues and help and I didn't have to do anything with that they just did it and I loved it and and I think that that there are times when it is really important that that you know I need to. Sometimes you know I have to make sure which had I'm wearing when I'm in a meeting and have to be very careful about saying we you know not a we or they or I mean they're little things that to me in in in the role I have with both I just need to be really careful of. Just because I it's sort of like having two kids and and you know you love them both and and you shouldn't show favoritism and there are certain areas anything having I have zero ability to move funding back and forth nor should I when when has anything to do with funding. Then then it's a board you know there's a little committee of each board chair and some members of each executive committee. They get present the facts and they they make the decisions there's you know when it comes to say my cop there's there's you know both the leadership of both boards have to do that together you know one could think I had a good year one could think I was a year whatever it is it's and and so we put some some safeguards in place. I would say it's probably likely not it's binomies will be up to me I think there tends to be consensus with the organizations that whenever I leave they probably go back to separate CEOs I just happen to be I had worked for our DMO before and sort of incubated the sports commission out of there before when before it started became our sports commission you know separate entity. At the beginning and so I just kind of had a unique insight into both and and right Kathy while she wasn't with the DMO just you know so ingrained in her community respected her community primary lot of sense for her to do both although sometimes she blames me for. Maybe sometimes thanks me sometimes. Yeah, but but I think it's a unique circumstance that works for Cleveland right now I personally I'm from here I love my city and I I'm incredibly thankful that I get to be in a position to try to make change in my community and I think by running both I have even more of an opportunity to do that. But you know it's it's certainly it's certainly unique I think the key though no matter what what you know if if if it's down the road to other people doing it or any city they got to figure out a way any city. Figure a way that that when you have a larger separate sports commission which many cities still have that there is a real symbiotic relationship and and between the two organizations that ego needs to be taken out of it. In order for it to work well and for one plus one equal more than two and not less than two. You know I've been to conferences where you know some of our industry conferences and you'll see the city sports commission and the city's DMO both be at the same conference not even together separate appointments and the me I look at that is is just silly. It just it's counterproductive it confuses the people you're trying to attract your city it shows that you don't have your act together in my opinion and and so you know if if ultimately we ever revert back you know after I'm not doing this. The one thing I want to make sure to facilitate is that there's still an amazing relationship between sports commission and destination Cleveland. Final question for you and you've had advice throughout this conversation but little bits of advice for other organizations other cities looking to attract big events what can you share with them. I think I think for us a little bit of our our secrets us is. is relationships and how we wrap the community around events. And it's a lot easier said than done. And one thing I've learned every city is different. The structure, there is no right structure of a sports commission. What works for Cleveland is very different than what works for Tampa is very different than what works for St. Louis, take your pick. Lots of city. And I think that if I look at who I most admire in our industry, and I look, it's not always the biggest, sexiest, most well-known cities that are the most successful in our industry, which is interesting to me. It's not necessarily the biggest cities that are the most successful in our industry. I look at who runs the organizations. And I think what I see is-- and I'm not going to name names because it's not fair to people, maybe I wouldn't name-- but I feel like such a common denominator that people that I respect the most in our industry are people who genuinely have a passion for their community. And they are deeply rooted in their community. That they have the right kind of board, the right kind of history, that they have engendered the right kind of trust that they can pick up the phone. It's interesting when I think of some of the cities that I-- if this becomes as me-- are who are the five cities in our industry. And if I pick those, if I talk to people in those communities, the people running their sports commissions are revered in their cities. And it's not just because they're good and they're effective, they're leaders that people in the community trust. And the ones that do it the best are ones that help to make sure the events are successful. It's not just a sales effort. Sports commissions came about because as a category of group business, if you just want to look at it that way, sporting events are very different than any other kind of meeting convention of group business. And what they need for success in a community, in most cases, is different than any other kind of meeting convention. And so if cities treat sporting events the same way they do hosting any other meeting or convention, they're just not going to be as successful because all they're selling is their city. As opposed to selling what their organization can do to make those people's events more successful. Well, there we go. We've got the blueprint. This has been so fascinating. David, thank you for your time. We appreciate it. David Gilbert, President and CEO of the Cleveland Sports Commission and Destination Cleveland. Thanks so much. Thanks for having me, Catherine. Take care. And I want to thank everyone for listening as well to the sports events and entertainment network. Brought to you by Visit Myrtle Beach. I'm your host, Catherine Nero, and I'll see you next time.