Hollywood Actor Shares Wild Alien Encounter Stories - Thomas Jane | ep. 101

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U.S. Army in Kitzik in Germany in 2002. We were at the firing range. And a gigantic UFO appeared above us. And, uh, most people were, like, frozen in time. Like, just frozen. Including myself. But I could see. I could move my eyes. And I had a cigarette in my hand before the incident happened. And when it. When it ended, the cigarette was burnt all the way down to me. It was burnt all the way down to the filter. So we definitely lost time. Like, a few minutes. And, um, I did hear a voice in my head speak to me. And what it said was that not to be afraid that they weren't going to harm us. But they were collecting a DNA scan. And ever since then, I have had, um, some very strange streams. Very strange downloads. Um, I watch your podcast all the time. And just wanted to, uh, leave this information. That, uh, it definitely has happened to me. Uh, welcome, Thomas Jane. Thank you. Um, for those of you who are not familiar with some of your work, uh, I would definitely type them out on IMDb. And you'll probably recognize a few movies, at least, at the very least, uh, that you've been a part of. I mean, just. I found out yesterday you've done a lot of Stephen King movies, actually. Uh, which. Three of them. The, uh, Dreamcatcher, um, 1922, and then The Mist. Yeah. The Mist, which is. Yeah. an amazing movie by every standard, I think, to this day. It's just, like, one of those really, really incredible ones. Um, have you. By the way, have you, like, on a side here, have you seen, uh, Widow's Bay? No, not yet. It's on Apple. What is it? It's great. It's, uh, horror/comedy. Mm. Um, Matthew Rhys is the lead. Oh, yeah. Um, phenomenal. But he. He borrows from so many, uh, Stephen King movies. Okay. Including The Mist. All right. So, at one point, um, his character, who. He's, like, the. I guess the. The town mayor, Mayor Tom. And he. He runs back in because there's this fog creeping in. And along with the fog comes, like, all this, I don't know, uh, bad news and bad luck and whatnot. Okay. Good. All the bad juju. And he runs in and he goes, "There's something in the fog!" And I go, "That's from The Mist. There's something in The Mist." And, uh. So, yeah. A movie that's still being referenced, uh, today. That's great. Um, but yeah. That's not what we're here to talk about, although I'm sure we're gonna get into some of that. But we're here to talk about, um, the UFO/UAP phenomenon and the fact that, uh, you sent me an, I guess, an early advanced copy of your new book, uh, The Watch Guard. Mm. Well, I know you're a reader, you know? And, um. And I, um. And it has, uh, I've written an account of, uh, something that happened to me in 2011. So. Yeah. Um. I mean, I wanted you to read that. Well, I appreciate you sending that my way. Yeah. And I did read it. Um, I've been furiously reading it, uh, not reading it in a furious manner, but trying to get through it before you got here, 'cause I, you know, lot of stuff going on, but I'm every night. Oh. You know, ripping through these pages, it's a really well-written book, and one of my favorite things about this book, I think, other than your personal experience, because you are, by every metric, an experiencer, uh, you know, to those wondering what your connection to this is and how you got into that, maybe we'll get into that a bit later, but you are an experiencer. And so a lot of this is through the lens of someone who is deeply affected by the phenomenon on a personal. Uh-huh. Uh, very personal way. And it, and to an extent, really messed with you. And still to this day, I take it, does mess with you. Changed my life. Yeah. Changed everything about my life. Yes. I'm an unwilling participant, uh, as so many, uh, people are that I've found out, you know, but in 2011, uh, I had no idea that any of this stuff existed. You know? I liked UFOs as a kid, but I liked, you know, uh, vampires too. And, uh, one of the, you know, disappointments of being a kid was realizing that vampires is totally made up and that UFOs were just, you know, totally impossible. You know, it just didn't make any sense how they could get here. It just, uh, unfortunately you had to sort of throw them into that drawer and I, and I did, I did for a while. Yeah. For a long time, for years. Until 2011. Yeah. There's, uh, like a magic trick sometimes, you know, it's good to suspend your disbelief to enjoy the magic, but there is in your case, and just like any really good magic trick, it is the unwilling suspension of disbelief. You were forced to suspend that disbelief in this encounter. I do want to get into that. But I also want to talk about every chapter of this book is, okay, first of all, there's a lot of really deep philosophical takes on this stuff. You know, you, you reference everyone from Kiel and Valet to people like Avi Lowe and the mainstream sort of UAP narrative and everything happened on, on the science side. Like you've clearly done your homework with all this. I didn't know this prior to meeting you. We met at Contact in the Desert. And when I started looking you up and like your connection to the phenomenon, I started realizing like, oh, wow, you've been going to like MUFON symposiums. You've been like, you've been really ingrained in this. You're not just in, forgive the, uh, the term, but you're not just a celebrity who's interested in UFOs. You have a real history with this stuff. Yeah. Recently, you know, I mean, when I first fell down the rabbit hole, I did, I met Travis Walton at, uh, a convention near the L.A. L.A. X airport. I met Linda Moulton Howe and then she talked to me for like 45 minutes, you know, I was just, it was, it was really interesting. Um, but then I kind of backed away. I got into Stephen Bassett. He, he started having this monthly meeting, uh, where people would come in. I heard about that and started showing up and met Steve. I, um, got roped into narrating a Stephen Greer documentary. Oh, I didn't know that. Called Serious. Yeah. It was his first documentary and they came to, I had Greer come over to my house and show me photos of that Atacama humanoid, you know, kitchen. And, uh, that was odd. It was just interesting experience. Uh, but I narrated the documentary, Gary Nolan. That was the first appearance of Dr. Gary Nolan who did the genetic analysis of the Atacama humanoid. I remember that documentary very well. Yeah, it was cool. It was, I was happy to be a part of it, you know, um, just to try to find ways to, you know, to spread the word and these were relatively early days, you know, and then I, all this time I've been making notes, you know, uh, my, I guess it's a normal reaction when my world was shattered. I just started writing things down. I had to write shit down to try to put things in a, in a place where I could look at them and try to see how, how things might fit together and how any of this might comport. And so I started writing, uh, you know, with the world as I understood it, the real world, you know, the world that was, that, uh, that everyone tells you is real. And the one that is strictly reinforced by the rules of, uh, of the game here on earth. So that was a conundrum. And those notes eventually turned into, uh, the, uh, the outline of a book. And then I started to, somebody invited me to contact in the desert three years ago. So that was, we met, I've been there twice before that. Right. And they asked me to talk, you know, I did a talk at, um, the Hollywood Disclosure Alliance. Sure. Yeah. A lot of great people there, really, you know, terrific, interested in the topic. Along the way, I became really good friends with Paul Hynek. He's great. I love that guy. He gave me those. Yeah, the Skiff gnomes. Yes, I blessed them. Well, they're protecting you, sir. Thank you. I don't need it. Thank Paul. And he, we really hit it off and had a lot to, these conversations are what, or how we learn, how we put the pieces together, you know, and we're all sort of groping in the dark around these things. And somebody's like, hey, come over here, feel this. What the hell is that? And I've been happy to be involved with Contact. I think it's a fantastic organization of like-minded human beings. And so that, so yeah, I guess I've been involved. Perfect. Freely. Sure. I mean, more than most. It's really quite interesting because I would say, you know, when you get people's takes on the phenomenon normally from someone who's just approached the phenomenon recently, maybe due to revelations in the news or congressional hearings, there is a, I don't know, there is a path that you can see people take, where, and I am victim to this same thing, but you start off with like, oh, it's flying saucers and the grays. And like, that's like the whole thing. Yeah. And then, no, they're from Zeta. And then like this whole, right, it evolves. And over time, you know, when I meet somebody who's just gotten into the topic, and I don't consider myself to be, you know, an expert by any metric, but when I meet somebody who's really green around the gills, you know, for this, I hear, I hear them say, oh, it's, it's, you know, they're, they speak with such certainty. And there's this Dunning-Kruger effect of like, you know, very high level of confidence. It's the grays and they're from Zeta. We have to nail it down somehow. Yeah, exactly. And then I'm, I'm, I'm very excited because then I get to say, well, just wait till you get to the point where you understand there's like a whole non-physical thing that's way more prevalent than anything physical in this topic. That's right. And, and they go, yeah, but that's just like technology that the grays have or something. Right. And I go, I'll see you in six months. And then down the road, they go, oh my God, you know, and they start reading Jacques Vallée and, and, and Kiel and like all sorts of other. Yeah. Jacques Vallée is kind of like the Isaac Newton of ufology. Right. How do you mean? Newton changed our understanding. He took the laws of motion and he sort of, you know, made, made the celestial and brought it bound to earth and connected the two with this, this really solid theory that, that can be built upon. And Newtonian mechanics still work for the most part. You know, you can, you can build an entire civilization off of Newtonian mechanics. But, you know, Newton was also really interested in alchemy. He spent, he wrote, most of his writing was about, you know, solving the secret biblical texts and stuff like that. And he had, and this, he was interested in this hidden divine order. I didn't know that. About underlying reality. That was Newton. He was fascinated. That was his whole mission in life was to uncover this hidden divine order, which Vallée also has helped us to understand the phenomenon in a new way by saying human consciousness is being impacted by, uh, what he called a nonhuman. Human control system, right. Which I'm a fan. I, I take that as a baseline. And I say that Vallée is like Newton because these theories are 50 years old, John Keel, Vallée, these are fantastic, you know, um, connections. These are wonderful dots that have been strung together into a really interesting pearl necklace. That necklace needs to be shattered. Those. Pearls need to be rearranged into an Einsteinian understanding. Right. There's another level to this phenomenon that is waiting to be cracked open. We're waiting for the Einstein interpretation. Einstein looked at Newton's stuff, looked at the clockwork was also interested in, uh, a divine order. You know, he eventually said, God doesn't play dice, but he took the speed of light and said, that's a fundamental. Aspect of. The universe. It can't be broken. In fact, space and time bend around the observer to create this, the different realities, depending on who the observer is and what speed they're traveling in. But the speed of light is this sort of fundamental envelope, which all of space and time revolves around and the observer plays a fundamental part in how we see the universe. And I think that we're waiting for, uh, that kind of, um. Architecture to be applied to the work of valet, the work of keel, uh, the idea that this, you know, keel thought that this intelligence was ancient. That there was a, not that, that the extraterrestrial hypothesis itself was the Trojan horse that the, uh, uh, the flying saucer sort of rode in on, you know, it's, it's sort of sneaking in under this guise of, uh, space beings. Of whatever we want it to be. Yeah. And, and, and also fairies or demons or ghosts and that there was this all encompassing intelligence. And that was sort of the, the secret according to keel. And I think both of those things are kind of true. Yeah. And they're, and they're based in some form on, you know, you touched this, uh, you touched on this in your book as well, but like Madame Blavatsky and the whole theosophy movement and, you know, everything is sort of derived there. And even like. You know, Jacques Vallée was famously, and so was, um, J. Allen Hynek, uh, Rosicrucian. Right. And so, you know, there is this tie to like hermeticism to these ancient orders of, you know, uh, science, if you will. Well, Vatsky and the, the, the theosophists, uh, were trying to connect with a higher intelligence through their spiritual practices. And that can, that could go as far. Yeah. As sort of the Rosicrucian or the golden dawn type of, um, technology, the magical technologies, you know, designed. The alchemy, yeah. To open us up to a, basically a non-human in form of intelligence or a higher intelligence. And the theosophists call them the ascended masters. Yeah. But they opened the door in the, you know, turn of the century. And then that crept up into the thirties and the forties, uh, the 1920s with. Alice a Bailey, they were, um, connecting with the, what they called the, uh, the Mahatmas, which were these hidden masters that lived in remotest Tibet and that they had these sort of celestial sort of abilities. And then that transformed into, um, hidden masters, not even living on earth or living in Venusian realms or, or in some higher plane of existence and that we could connect with them telepathically. Yeah. And that laid the groundwork for the contactee movement. Yeah. Venus, Jupiter, even like all the plus Saturn. They were coming from Mars, all these planets. From our solar system impinging on us down here, telling us to, you know, clean up our act. Uh, they were basically here to save us from ourselves. And the theosophist really laid the groundwork for this whole idea that you can telepathically communicate with these non-human intelligences that looked suspiciously. Human, they were, you know, very, uh, they looked like, uh, you know, Scandinavian models that were getting off their spaceships in the desert, which is really strange. And I was trying to comport the fact that we do have really strong, um, accounts of these, not just humanoid, but humanesque beings that could pass for you and me that could walk down the street. And that these are the same beings that were reported by the contactees, which I don't put a lot of credence into. You, you don't until you, until you realize that, like, cause I'm the, I'm of the same ilk, I, I, I think where, okay, I don't know if we're actually dealing with tall blonde people in spandex. Right. Um, but then you'll speak to someone who look you dead in the eye, who's never been interested in this stuff in their life. Never blinked. Never batted an eye in this direction. Yeah. And they break down because they're telling you about a time where they were out of Chipotle and this eight foot tall couple stared and talked to him in his head and it changed everything for him. If you're ever thinking about picking up some area 52 merch, but you were waiting for the right moment. 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When we start looking into this stuff, there's a wonderful account from just a couple of years ago that we could get into later that happened in Brazil that Pavel from Psychoactivo turned me on to. Oh, yes. Right. Yes, about the being that bled. Yeah. Yeah. Dr. Paul Parada. Yeah, they're doing tests on his blood now. Right. Well, they've done the test. Or they've done the test, have they? Yeah. Yeah. Are the results back? Yeah. The results have come back. They are fascinating. Can you give us a brief rundown of what that story is? There was like an injured being, right, if I'm not mistaken. I'm a little foggy on. Right. So, 2019, I think, is the year that the worst wildfires in Bolivia, all over South America, they're the worst they'd ever seen. I mean, the whole damn country was burning down. They lost millions. Millions of animals, thousands of indigenous tribes. It was a disaster. The worst one that South America had had at the time. Unfortunately, there was an even worse fire in 2024. So, this is the heart of our planet. This is the heart and lungs of our planet. The rainforest is now being, we kind of know now that that rainforest is a man-made thing that some ancient civilization actually created. The soil, which is the richest soil on the planet, that's a technology. That rainforest is an ancient technology that's been created. And now, you know, of course, we're burning it down. But I could see how non-human intelligence might be interested in that part of the planet. A ton of reports come out of Brazil. I mean, most of life is there. If you look at the number of living things on the planet, like most of it is there, right? It's the birth. The birthplace of the cauldron of life on this planet sort of erupting out of this thing. It's a gorgeous piece of, it's a jewel of the universe, I would think. I would agree. And Dr. Paul Parada was a young man who had volunteered to be a first aid guy. And he had a cabin out in the middle of nowhere on the edge of the wildfires towards the end of their reign. Right? So the wildfires were kind of burning down. They were still being fought in a few areas. Firemen were coming out. They brought people in from all over the world to try to get a handle on this fire. So it wasn't uncommon to see Europeans or, you know, people from everywhere. The French, a lot of people from the UK had come in. Firefighters, volunteers. You know, there was cholera was running rampant. The animals were all burning to death. They didn't have water. The water had been poisoned by the ashes. It was falling into it. And so people were doing what they could. And Parada was, you know, like all of those guys would work in shifts. They'd work for like three days straight until they couldn't stand anymore. And then a truck would come and pick them up and take them away. So it was his last night there. He stepped outside to grab a smoke. It was about 11 o'clock at night. And he sees a white man coming up the trail in the middle of nowhere. The firemen are all deep into the forest. But he's figuring. This is a one of the firefighters that had come to help. And as the guy gets closer, he's tall. He's got longer blonde hair and he's wearing a skin tight spandex style. Yeah. As you would in the rainforest. As you would. And it had these stripes on him. Silver, silver like Morse code, like a line and then a dot and then a line. And they were sort of all over his uniform. And he's thinking Parada. He's thinking, ah, these Europeans, they've got the best firefighting gear. And he had a blanket on. And the blanket was a local blanket with like a print of a leopard on it or something. Parada remembers that. It's this guy wearing this fancy outfit with this Bolivian, you know, popular at the time, tiger print blanket around his shoulders. And he came up and Parada's like, how can I help you? And he says, I've been I've been injured. And he says, oh. You know, come inside. Let's take a look at it. And they walk into this little shack. Where which was repurposed as his first aid kit. He's like, have a seat. Tell me what's going on. And the guy pulls down his uniform and he pulls his arm out and he's got a gash on his arm that goes from like here to here, bleeding like crazy. And the first thing Parada noticed was that none of the blood was on his. Uniform that somehow his arm was bleeding fiercely, but none of the blood was on his uniform, which was spotless. And and he's like, oh, man, how did how did you do that to yourself? And the guy looked at him. And in Parada's mind, he hears the words, it was a baby Puma. And Parada freezes. And he's like, did that guy. Did that guy just talk to me in my mind? And then the guy puts a hand on his shoulder and goes, calm down. Everything's going to be OK in his mind. And Parada just loses it. And he's like thinking, how do I get out of here? This guy's obviously I don't know what he is, but I need to get the hell out of here. There's nobody's around. He's in the middle of nowhere. And he eventually the guy just says, listen, you know, Parada goes over to the first aid kit and he stitches this guy's arm. His arm up. And as he's stitching his arm up, he realizes the guy's got no body hair, not anywhere. And he looks at his face and he's not clean shaven. He doesn't have hair on his face. And he does that. I think it takes him 40 minutes or something like a long time. But he finally gets it done. He gives him a little baggie. He's like, listen, you need to take care of this, take these pills. But ghost, there's another place that can help you way better than I can. So. When you're ready to get the stitches out, go somewhere else. Yeah. And the guy goes, uh, the, the, uh, humanesque, uh, goes, um, don't be afraid of what you're going to see next. And Prada's like, okay. And he looks around and he grabs a pair of medical scissors and he puts them in his, up his sleeve and he goes, okay. And the, and the guy opens the door and. Right outside the shack is a U.F. When all of its lights off dark gray, silent with no lights on just hanging above the trees, a saucer, a saucer, a round saucer, and below the saucer are two little humanoids like grays, but they were greenish and they didn't have big heads. They had big black eyes, normal size or proportionally sized heads. But the, uh, and their skin was a little greenish and they were wearing the same outfit as our, our man. And Prada starts kind of walking with these, with this guy and sort of lets the guy get ahead and gets under the thing. And then he, and then he sort of says, okay, I'm, uh, I'm going back inside. And, uh, the guy turns around under the spaceship was standing there with his two buddies and in his mind, he goes, thank you, Paul. And he hadn't. He hadn't said, said his name. He hadn't told the guy what his name was. And Paul Prada ran back in there, slammed the door and, uh, stayed in there all night, terrified that they were going to come back and take him away. Or, you know, that, uh, they were going to kidnap him and take him to another planet. Or, I mean, he was losing his mind. He kept this story to himself for a long time, but they couldn't sleep at night. And, uh, he started having these dreams. And in the dreams, he was in a white room and in the white room was our guy and he was being operated on. And he had these little dudes were there and he keeps having these dreams and he's freaking out and he tells his wife, his wife's like, you're losing your mind. He does an interview with somebody, I think from Argentina, uh, and that gets picked up and goes all around South America. His boss fires him, loses his job. His wife is, they have a baby on the way or a second baby. baby on the way and uh his wife's like what the hell are you doing you know and he really it was sort of the dark night of the soul for parada he couldn't live with it and he couldn't live without it so he started um going he started reaching out he started telling his story and jj the spanish researcher um i'm gonna forget his last name but his name is jj um he's a famous guy he's like the jacques valet of spain he reached out and he said i'm flying over there i want you to show me everything um and so he does and the parada takes him to the shack he's there with his guys he tells him the whole story and then parada says you know i still got those uh cotton balls had a gauze like yeah i've got the gauze i saved it uh i've got that guy's blood and so uh jj said i've got the means to have this stuff tested so we gave him some of the blood not all of it and they had it tested over about six months and this was only like in 2024 or something that they finally got this stuff tested and um it uh turns out that it's the dna is completely human but the it's female the uh chromosomes chromosomes there are no male chromosomes in the in the in the blood so this somehow they were genetically engineered to be female even though this was clearly a a masculine muscular uh guy without any facial hair hmm was there anything else that was peculiarly about the blood yeah um it was immortal the blood cells on the gauze were didn't decay they didn't turn black they didn't get crusty the way they were fresh they were fresh as as the day still they're still as fresh as the day as they as they came out of as they as he found them on that day no way no very interesting and they say maybe there's some sort of nanotechnology in there or some sort of bio preservative preservative some sort of you know some sort of genetic anomaly that they've engineered to sort of make this blood immortal now um bacteria is immortal uh you know um single celled organisms they've been around forever they divide and divide and divide and they they sort of they sort of have no they don't carry information so that they're they've been immortal on the planet forever and maybe they're able to use something like that and blend them together i have no idea but if their blood is immortal they're probably immortal yeah that's the that's the next conclusion um which means that the same beings that are interacting with us today could have been the same beings that have been interacting with us yeah for thousands of years could be ashtar right there um that is such a remarkable story and so recent because you i mean what was the last time you'd heard about flying saucers with a tall blonde swedish guy wasn't prior to 1975 like i mean yeah and that was a setup that guy that came out of the forest yeah i've got a gash on my i think so too that was my that was my next conclusion like i think it's like this was a donation that's right clearly this was a donation a baby puma what yeah are you talking that's the best you can come up with parada had uh jj had um uh several labs test the blood and all of that and somehow um all of that has sort of gotten brushed under the rug paradas stopped coming out he stopped talking pavel our friend pavel says that the queen of england may have gotten uh the queen of spain may have gotten involved somehow weird that um i'll have to speak to pavel about it yeah i really should he's looked into he's he's done some interesting research and he did the translations of the interview that's how i found right the case yes and i write about it in in the book because i think it's the most fascinating case and maybe the most consequential case clearly with a donation to have come uh about and then you know there that goes on we can get into that another time but the the experiences the parada had on the craft with these beings he actually he was freaking out they were in in that white room he said listen this has got to end my life is you know like his dreams yeah stop i know this isn't a dream i'm waking up with bruises on me i wake up with stuff you know i know what you guys are doing and you got to stop because my life has fallen apart and they said give us three days they said come with us we're going to work with you for three days and then we'll let you go and we'll never we'll never bother you again and he you know he kind of didn't really have a choice and he did so he he went on to the craft or an underground wherever wherever the hell for three days for three days and he swears by this absolutely oh my god yeah oh and the stuff that they uh talk about is rather shocking i have to look into this case a little more that's very interesting rather amazing well go give um go give pavel a follow if you're listening i mean he's got a lot of interesting stuff that he covers as well yeah psychoactivo right thank you some of the uh cases that are coming out of south america and worldwide are really worthy of studying this is a worldwide phenomenon yeah and um we're obviously it feels to me that we're entering a new phase not only in our own sort of awakening but in in the interactions you know i see we are now being sort of we're gradually leveled up we've leveled up thank you wow in very interesting case i mean and no shortage of interesting cases are covered in this book i can tell you're a fan of preston dennett as am i as you include these obscure yeah um cases and this one maybe not so obscure but there are some very obscure ones uh that i do want to like bring up because i'm every chapter i was delighted to learn about a new encounter and these are like not just oh i saw a triangle at which i'm not discounting that that's important that's obviously life-changing but um a few that stuck out to me was was uh a few that stuck out to me were a joseph hendrika from vienna austria in 1955 yes um so he this man was like riding his bike yeah sees these lights think coming down and he's thinking oh there's a plane or something somebody's crashing you know the the ward ended maybe yeah a decade before that's yeah yeah and uh and then austria it was in austria he was a german austrian the europe was in tatters you know um the social unrest was pretty high and joseph was a young man i think he was 27 years old jobless pissed off really one of those kind of angry you know socialists right at the world and he was driving through a forest path and he used to spend his days riding around on his moped i was his moped that's right he's really just you know um probably trying to tame the forest but he's a glint in the forest and so he leaves the path and he drives over and there's this 30 foot silver disc sitting in a clearing in the middle of the forest and the door was open and the ramp was down and it was like a 12 foot ramp and this six foot wide door and uh joseph for whatever reason drives his moped right up the ramp and into the craft where these six beings are waiting for him there now he doesn't see him he doesn't see him he doesn't see him he doesn't see him he doesn't say this but i wouldn't be surprised if they didn't sort of telepathically sort of coax him onto that craft i don't know sure maybe he just got yeah what would compel you to do this but then again we don't know maybe that's just a quirk that joseph has maybe and uh these beings were childlike they were um they look like children yeah and that not big heads not grays you know they they were basically looked like 10 year old children really you know they had blonde hair weird silken sort of inflated rough as a collar um they're they had mittens on which were you know sort of these gloves but with fingerless gloves and they he they started talking to him in perfect austrian german and he's like how the hell did you guys learn where are you guys from and they said we have come from the highest peaks of cassiopeia uh and then he realized oh my god like these are like space people yeah so he's like how do you guys know german and he's like we learned it and then he starts telling them all about he's like oh my god look at you you're obviously like got some shit figured out are you here to help us are you here to help you know save europe yeah he starts telling them about hitler about the war and right right and then they're like no we didn't come here to interfere in any way in uh in your terrestrial matters we just came here to to observe you know and check it out but they were like tell me about this machine you're driving it's really interesting how does it work so they got it joseph to describe the the basics of a combustion engine uh to these space people and then he's joseph says like the the little cabin he was in there was no instrumentation he couldn't see any chairs it was just empty in there but it was um filling up with the smell of like warm oil from his moped evocative story uh joseph uh started you know raging about this the state of the world and how the industrialists were taking over and the the poor were you know living the rich were living off the backs of these poor people and and they said yeah but you must know yourself how to fix these matters and if you want to start you know you know that a revolution can be started and you can change all of that but you got to do it yourself um and then uh and then as he was pleading with them as joseph tells it the beings started to cry they started to weep with like empathy for for his his rage his socialist rage at the world and then joseph got really embarrassed while seeing these little space beings crying for him in this little cabin and he got really uncomfortable and he says okay well i i should probably leave i should probably go and he uh he he bowed and they bowed and he took his moped and drove down the ramp and left and then uh regretted it for the rest of his life kicked himself like why did i leave you know why did i why did i start you know telling these folks to fix my planet this is like the first thing out of my mouth oh you're space and make them cry yes yeah then they start weeping oh no that is um at the sorry state of who he was and where he was and life on earth and the whole thing is fascinating to me you know that they'd have these interactions and i and i think that in a lot of ways a lot of the the uh the beings that don't that aren't here for you know um other purposes do come here to experience you know uh to check us out to check out life on earth yeah little visitors little tourists almost as if if we could take a tour of rome yeah you know like i would do it in a heartbeat i know it'd be the greatest tour in the world just to walk around just to just to see how somebody lived their life for one day that's true and and walk the streets you know of rome or greece you know and go see a play in the amphitheater it's like that would be nuts like some beings have that ability i'm sure they can do that yeah that's probably you know where that big wave in the mid 60s and 70s was like that's you know you mentioned this in your book as well but like there are these two types of beings there are the beings that the inconsequential sort of passerbys yeah and then yeah the transients as you call them and then the other ones who you know are a little bit more intrinsically linked to us i think so for one agenda or another whether it's our benefit or theirs i don't know but yeah we don't know yeah but it seems to be that um we have so many hundreds of different species or accounts or descriptions yeah throughout decades thousands maybe yeah and yet the the guys that showed up around when the abduction era started the the the great now there's a ton of different kinds of gray aliens out there which gets confusing for people because when you say a gray we're not really sure we don't have a photograph so we can't really tell what which gray they're talking about genderless are they naked or they have a suit what color suit are they tall they short big head small head right lips no lips like all these same is true for the humanesque guys there's not just tall blonde you know eight foot tall calvin klein model types no there's these other types as well there's um the ones with joe simonton right who gave him the you know who wanted the pail of water he had the pancakes they were like italian race car drivers he put it in turtlenecks you know with like olive colored skin and like yes some have dark skin some have longer noses yeah um i want to count i i can't remember who but the the the humanesque types were tall and they had giant chins right they were really skinny with these giant chins and some native looking as well like more um yeah and then there's other blonde humanesques but shorter not not seven or eight feet tall um with uh smaller eyes a little bit yeah yeah higher foreheads uh jesse rostenberg saw them yeah and they also yeah with the with a fishbowl right on their head and uh this uh truck driver i think from argentina was abducted by them for yes the 70s yes there was multiple there's like three of them that took him and they experimented on him yeah and they experimented on him and they experimented on him yeah and they it was quite horrific yeah yeah and it sparked a whole nationwide debate whether we were being surveilled by space beings yeah so there's different types of humanesques there's different types or species i don't know what to call them of gray there's different types of praying mantis yeah you know there's um they've been reported since the 50s i think even leonard stringfield that's right some some some of these praying mantis types but there's like white praying mantises there's uh shorter praying mantises there's like the really tall ones that are super skinny there's ones that look more like insects and others that look more like praying mantis as well like there's like the like the insectolines or um you know and they always those those ones are really interesting to me because you know there is a seeming hierarchy to this even though it might only be perceivably in some cases the case i don't think it's across the board but it seems like there is this hierarchy where at least a portion of these graves seem to be bio synthetically engineered uh sort of these drones that's right and then you know the step up from that is like the taller grays and then the step up from that is perhaps these human looking ones and then behind the veil are these like robed tall eight foot tall terrifying you know insects uh that that have the most psychic capability it would seem that can that show up in dmt experiences they seem like the oldest race like these are the ones that have been around for a long time they have the most incredible technology yeah i like the uh there's a canadian story about this chick named joyce halfran who uh was in um i think in the 80s i think in 89 she was abducted by a couple of different praying mantis types really but one type that were like seven feet tall super skinny little babies and then she was taken to the hospital and she was taken to the hospital and she was taken to the hospital and she was taken to the hospital and she was taken to the hospital and she was taken to the hospital and she was taken to the hospital and she was taken to the hospital and she was taken to the hospital and she was taken to the hospital and she was taken to the hospital and she was taken to the hospital and she was taken to the hospital and she was taken to the hospital and she was taken to the hospital and she was taken to the hospital and she was taken to the hospital and she was taken to the hospital and she was taken to the hospital and she was taken a little bit about their technology and they said your space program is doomed to fail but one day your physicist will work out how to use light to travel between dimensions they said that light at the end of the tunnel that you see in a near-death experience we use that to travel and you're going to learn how to do that without dying you don't have to die to get there you don't have to die to get there and once you shake off old ideas about space time and death whoa yeah so there's a dimensional aspect to these praying mantis folks that really uh fascinate me but i'm not sure how we can hierarchy i'm not sure about the hierarchy yeah i don't it's a perceivable i don't think it is and i think we have a very limited understanding due to the encounters that we've had and then there's the reptiles yeah that's a whole other thing it's a whole other thing but these four i call them clades because they are they're clades of aliens and they're and there's a reptilian clade there's the the insectiline clade there's the gray clade and there's the humanesque clade yeah and they out of those clades one type of humanesque being one type of praying mantis or insectiline which is a praying mantis and then one type of gray which appears to be the biosynthetically created sort of drones uh and then you know they they appear to be this loose confederation that is impacting our society for reasons unknown right and that's uh what i'm trying to figure out yeah and it's difficult because any one of these could be masquerading as another and for all we know which would make it impossible the masters of genetic engineering sure so we don't know who's creating who yeah you know a lot of them use these little grays so i think we're pretty safely can say that the gray g-r-a-y alien is a biosynthetic synthetic drone. Yeah. At least for the most part. For the most part. Yeah. Now there are grays that are biological, but these drones that are used in the abduction program are used in a lot of other areas. The reptiles have them, the, uh, the human-esque, uh, work with them. They're seen all the time in abduction scenarios and the praying mantises also. So whether they're all using the same, you know, uh, uh, brand of gray alien or they're all creating their own, we don't know. I would, I would probably lean towards that. I don't think I would, I would think it kind of silly to impose capitalism on these things and be like, there's a whole factory. You can just go purchase your own grays. I think that P26s. Yeah. They probably are developing whatever they need for the needs of the mission is, is my guess. You know, when you look at these craft and you, you hear about a lot of them, uh, like you said, they're barren. There's not, there's nothing going on. There's no photos hanging on the wall. There's no kitchen. There's no toilet there, you know, for all intense purposes, even Matt Brown talks about the idea of them being, um, made to purpose or built to spec. Uh, and I would assume the technology, which is, which are these guys, they're also a technology. And I think they're also built to spec depending on the mission using our own genetics to build them. And, and what I always find interesting is like, but in whose image are they built? Do you know what I mean? Because there has to be like that. Is that a random choice that everyone's agreed on that? Like, Oh, this is the least frightening thing that we could use. Like, cause that doesn't seem fitting. Do we factor into their decision to create grays that look the way they do, or are they just utilitarian and look the way they do because there's a reason genetics for them, for their own. Yeah. Or are they based off something? Are they built in the likeness of some other being that turned out to be, you know, maybe, you know, a person that's really optimal being for this planet? I don't know. There's an interesting, uh, Aaron Schultz was abducted several times in the nineties by gray, greenish gray aliens that look just like the grays, but they said their skin was slightly greener. And he said that they told him that they were us from the future. Yeah. I've heard that a few times. So are we, you know, so are they creating these grays because that's in our image? Yeah. In our image. Thank you. Yeah. I mean, you know, Dr. Michael masters has a whole literal dissertation on that. Like he, he wrote his thesis on, you know, the cranial morphology of humans into, uh, these grays and, and it makes sense. And that might happen on several different planets. You know, I like the theory that they're from red dwarfs or a system with a red dwarf. There's a very long lifespan and most of the red doors we know, you know, they're, the sun is too volatile for life, that might not be true in every case. And there's trillions of suns out there. So maybe that gray morphology is something that all humanoid beings start to develop into as the sun dies over millions of years. And maybe as you go underground, you know, also your, your eyes get larger and the underground hypothesis is also a good one. Yeah. It's very interesting to, to look at their morphology specifically, and then try to reverse engineer, from a paleontology standpoint or anthropology standpoint. Was there a plethora of alien planets where insects became the dominant intelligent life form and that, and those praying mantises really are insects? Well, yeah. And, and, uh, Stephen Bassett mentions this as well, which I thought was interesting. Cause if you look at lizards, the reptilians, you look at the mantids, you look at the Nordics, what do they all have in common? You can find them all on earth, right? Are we all sharing DNA? Is this a cosmic zoo that we're all this DNA pool that we're all pulling from? Are we all just part of the same family? I mean, they are living here. We do see little versions of all of these, you know, it might turn out that on these alien planets spread out across galaxies, millions, billions, trillions of life giving worlds. They all share the same. And we're sharing basic genetics. I would, that's my running theory for everything is that these are all just trillions of petri dishes, uh, that are at different stages of evolution. And the universe is using the same building blocks all over the place. And why not? Yeah. I mean, if, if you were an advanced species and you've gotten through the trials of wanting to wage war and all of that, you've gotten past all that. And now you're at the point of your existence where you want to go out and spread life and maintain and nurture life throughout the universe. Um, you, you, first of all, you wouldn't, uh, take over a planet that's dead and live underground. That seems useless. You would go to a green, nice sort of planet with water or whatever the conditions are, but you would find quickly that those conditions don't actually suit you. You would die from something, the nitrogen levels, the radiation, something's off. And so you would still have to live in a suit. And so instead let's take the native species that lives here. Let's, let's genetically modify it with our DNA. Let's bring some stuff from this planet, these little cephalopods, change them a bit, put them in this ocean, take that, do this and do that everywhere. You could do that. But then at the same time, I wouldn't do it. I wouldn't waste my time. If I'm this really intelligent being, I would have AI do it. Exactly. And so I would put these Van Neumann probes in the oceans and, and let them figure it out. And, you know, maybe there's a tripwire system there eventually when these things ascend to a higher consciousness or when they blow themselves up, then, then, you know, we send in the reinforcements and we're like, Hey, calm down. And you could do some serious, uh, terraforming. Yes, exactly. Or Panspermia or like, like controlled Panspermia. Yeah. Yeah. And all of that might be going on, but, and at the same time, this biosis that's happening all over the universe has the same non-local essence. That a morphogenetic field to use Rupert Sheldrake's, um, hypothesis is a non-local impulse that writes itself into being everywhere. And so all of the different conditions on different planets would change that morph, that chemical soup in, in slightly different ways. I see. But the biosis, the impulse, the life, the carbon, you know, we're, we're one, our scientists are wondering, you know, maybe silicone may be, but that would, I would count that as a silicone based life form, maybe a shadow biosphere that may exist alongside. We don't know how many overlapping by biosis spheres there are, but we do know that this one appears to be sharing the same basic building blocks. That's why abduct the abduction phenomenon, that's why we can crossbreed. That's why, uh, these, uh, creatures look an awful lot like, uh, they have earth analogies. Yeah. I mean, they're bipedal frontward facing eyes. They have digits on their hands. Like these are all very specific traits. In other words, we're not starting from scratch and that, and, and scientists on our planet right now, and why not, why wouldn't we think this have started that somehow life began as this freak accident, lucky lightning bolt hits a warm pond. Somehow this chemical soup springs into life and starts evolving using natural selection, the conditions of our planet as we're changing the conditions. And then that, you know, in this feedback loop, you know, the, the planet freezes over, then the planet, you know, warms up and, and this process begins and it's been going on for four and a half billion years, but that same process could be going on in all of these different planets together. Sharing the morph. In other words, an, an evolutionary sort of, um, uh, you know, a new, a new evolutionary level is reached on one planet. You can, that new way of putting life together, non-locally spreads to all the other planets. Yeah. Like the five minute mile or whatever that was, you know, when one person does it, all of a sudden everybody can do it. And we could extrapolate that to include the universe. That's, that's very interesting. That's a very interesting hypothesis. And, you know, why not? Um, you can go ahead, you can grab it. I mean, there seems to be something. I mean, there seems to be something for the whole family power up your movie night and watch Disney and Pixar's toy story five now streaming on Disney plus rated PG get more from every job with Kubota construction equipment from SVL compact track loaders to KX compact excavators. Kubota brings proven performance, smart value, and job site reliability to the crews who count on their equipment every day built for demanding work and backed by dealer support. Kubota equipment helps crews stay productive through long days, tight timelines, and long hours of work. lines and tough conditions. Performance that pays you back. More from every job with Kubota Construction Equipment. One interesting part of your book was a chapter based on the name of the book, The Watch Guard. And it was Donald, I'm going to say this wrong, Shawcross in Slanesville, West Virginia, 1982. A wonderful encounter with a all-knowing sort of creature that claims to be almost like a protector of this planet. Or perhaps this AI system that I spoke of or something that is keeping an eye. Can you tell us a little bit about that and why you chose that for the title of the book? Shawcross is a really interesting case. And I stumbled across these. Looking through old Flying Saucer reviews. And we have that in common. There's nothing better than an old UFO magazine. And have you seen the ones from Sweden? And yeah, those are fantastic. Stories Lost is a great YouTube channel that they do all. Unfamiliar. Yeah, they do some really artistic, wonderful work in recreating some of these lost cases that are dug up. It's old UFO magazines from Sweden, from Norway, from Denmark, you know, from all over the UK, really. But Shawcross is, I think, probably found that through Preston Dennett, who is the goat as far as a xenologist goes. Yeah. He's a full-on, I'm a moonlight xenologist. He's a full-tenured xenologist. Yeah, I've got a stack of his books right there. You've been at it for so many years. And really, if anyone is interested. And sort of trying to wrap their mind around the phenomenon. It has to start with the actual accounts that have been going on for decades. And you can find through people like Preston, through people, the old UFO journals and all the researchers out there. They're looking for where the rubber hits the road. Because that's where we're going to find answers, in my opinion. Or at least dots that we can start to put together and see where that takes us. So Shawcross, he was a night shift geologist. And he was four o'clock in the morning getting off. I think he was working at a hospital or something. And he lived in a trailer home in Virginia in the middle of nowhere. And he has a wife and a kid. And he comes home. He opens the door. And his cats try to run out past him right away. They're like tearing at the screen door. He's like, whoa, what's going on? So he looks outside. He figures maybe there's an animal out there. And he sees what looks like a cat. Like a plane going down in the field behind his house. So he wakes up his wife. He says, call the cops. There's going to be a plane crash. And he runs outside. He jumps in his car. And there's an old dirt road behind the field. He drives back there. His car dies. He doesn't think much of it. He gets out with his flashlight. And he starts walking through the weeds with his flashlight. And he comes across a pair of silver boots. And he puts his flashlight up. And he thinks it's the pilot of the airplane that just crashed. There's no pilot. It's this guy with a silver suit on. He's got a staff in his arms. You know, like a four-foot-long staff he's holding. He's got a helmet on. He can't really see his eyes. And he's like, are you okay? Who the hell are you? And the guy starts communicating telepathically. Telepathically in Donald's mind. Yeah, instantly. Instantly blew his mind. And he's like, and he realizes this is a, you know, that's a flying saucer. And this is a dude from space. It's a space being. And he goes, why haven't you made yourself known to the world? And the guy says, we are known. And he's like, well, what are you doing here? He says, I'm the watch guard. And he's like, what do you, what do you, they start having this. Telepathic conversation where this space being says that we're not taking care of our nuclear waste properly. That we're screwing up the planet. That there's, we can do this much better. And then he's like, and I'll, I can show you how to do this kind of stuff. And then he starts telling Donald about the hidden technologies that are hidden in the, underneath the Sphinx. He starts telling him about the pyramids. They have. This long conversation. And I listed in the, uh, a version of it in the book, because it's rare that you get these sort of like in-depth conversations with these space people. They're usually pretty coy. And this guy is too, but it's changed Donald's life. You know, as he's talking to this space being, he suddenly realizes that his feet are not touching the ground and he starts to panic because he's been floating along with this guy toward the craft, which was like a little purple light off of the distance when he stopped parked his car. And now it's sort of like a few feet away and it's a classic flying saucer with a big inner tube around the side. And it's got lights that are spinning around and it's got a purple light coming off of it. Donald's pissing himself. He's thinking this, this is really bad because now this, the door starts opening up, you know, and he's like, this guy's going to take me on board the craft and I'm going to disappear. And then it never come back. Um, but his feet touch the ground and the guy starts walking up the ramp alone and he turns around and he goes, I'll be back. And he gets in the craft and the door closes, the craft lifts up and it takes off across the mountains. And by the time he got back to his, his place, the cops had shown up. So he tells them the whole story. He's burnt the cop. They interviewed the cop and the cop said, yeah, one half of his face was sunburned, his hand and his face from that purple. Light. Right. That had, that had, that had come out of the, uh, the craft, whatever that was. Yeah. Close encounter of the second kind. Yeah. They didn't, uh, they didn't find any radiation on Donald, although he was, he was burnt and the, um, he, uh, the cops of course said, you know, I don't know. The guy was obviously freaked out when I showed up, but there was nothing in the field and I don't know this guy. I mean, you know, he, he could be some nut, but, uh, that experience sent Donald changed his life, you know? Yeah. Yeah. As it does with so many, so many people, it changes. It's just, everything just turned upside down for him from that moment on. Um, what was it? Gray Barker, I think, came out and interviewed him and, uh, said, this is the most credible encounter case that I've come across. A guy from New York came down and gave him a full lie detector test, which he passed with flying colors. The, the, uh, New York guy said, well, he believes it, you know, whatever happened, he, he really believes it. And, uh, and then Donald start, got obsessed with the pyramids and the Sphinx and trying to crack that mystery for, for the rest of his life. You know, what, what's in there? And, uh, I call it and the, the, uh, so I basically, I called the book, the watch guard, because I think that that's a part of what's going on. You know, I think that these, this, uh, small group, the, this, this one. One group of human esque, this one group of praying mantis, um, we don't know much about the reptiles, but they keep showing up. And then the grays are this confederation that is here as a kind of, uh, a watch guard. I think that they are guarding the gates to the cosmos. I think that there's two, uh, factions of watch guards. I think that's the. Alien faction. And then the human faction is also hiding the craft, hiding the bodies, rushing away the evidence, the trail that leads to them. And they're in cahoots. And it's possible, it's possible. In fact, the more I look into this, the more I can't see how it cannot be possible that there is an intersection of human and alien forces. That are working together in some capacity, uh, to manage humanity's access to technologies that are literally otherworldly and that have the power, um, to destroy worlds, worlds. Um, and also, uh, with that included. Included in that power is the power to traverse the galaxy, to go anywhere, to do anything. And, um, you know, we just don't quite have our shit together enough to be able to handle that kind of stuff. The prime directive. And there's, there's a little bit of a, of a prime directive going on here. There has to be. I always, I always feel like, you know, cause when you, you look at Star Trek and you go, the prime directive was, okay, we don't interfere with planets that don't have warp drive. That's always been the case. And when they develop warp drive. then it's like welcome to the family. And if you consider nukes being warp drives, which i don't right um you know i think that's when we would have had contact but the more i right the more that i look at this stuff the more that i realize that the prime directive is don't interfere until they get rid of the nukes yeah like that for me seems like the threshold of finally now you get it what have they been telling us yeah for the past hundred years get rid of your nukes what are you doing right don't play with this stuff right you know don't play with this energy don't play with this that this is bad you're going to kill yourselves you're going to kill but it's happened before it'll happen again like all these warnings yeah point to the prime directive being we don't interfere limited in a limited capacity at least until they get rid of the nukes and then you look at jfk trying to do that in some capacity right before he was assassinated yeah um and that's what shawcrossed was told by the watch guard you know you don't know how to handle you're not doing it right you don't know how to handle that stuff the second we get rid of those yeah is probably when we get the landings the watch guard did say we use nuclear power sure but we use it you know we know how to use it yeah not to kill people right yeah get rid of the nukes we know how to properly uh you know manage these kind of incredibly powerful technologies and i think that nuclear power is the entry exam to a whole new level of um sub-quantum kinetics as paul laviolette calls it that will that will make uh the atom bomb look like a water balloon sure at a fourth of july yeah you know i mean we're talking there's a guy named chukinoff um a russian uh scientist who studied plasma physics and he got really into ball lightning and bought any and create recreating it in the lab and he says chukinoff and you can go to chukinoff energy you know so just google a ball lightning hopes and fears chukinoff and he he has this um theory that ball lightning is a source of unlimited energy that it's a 2d macroscopic quantum object that the has a 2d center and a three-dimensional layer of electrons around the shell and those electrons are constantly exchanging energy with the quantum vacuum and then you can use that energy to create a quantum vacuum and then you can use that energy to create a quantum vacuum as an unlimited energy energy supply but but you can also turn it into a weapon which something he calls a quantum photon bomb sounds lovely millions of times more powerful than an atom bomb because it taps into the vacuum sort of non-local energy and he said you can make this in your garage for five thousand bucks yeah the high power microwave uh a crystal uh an electron gun some other stuff and this might be the keys to the uh keys to the kingdom but i mean you know when you when you say that it makes me kind of thankful that there are these watch guards on both the human and the non-human side i feel like these are necessary guardrails you know because if if we're working it's either one of two options if we are working with uh a quantum vacuum it's either one of two options if we are working with a quantum vacuum a non-human component here to uh i don't know to gatekeep disclosure in some capacity then it's either one of two things either one there's like a malevolence here and it's like a control system and they want to do it for their own benefit their own agenda and they have a you know they have an agreement with the evil government and there's that's this one side and the other side is no you're not going to be able to do that you're not going to be able to do that you'll kill yourselves and probably kill more things that you can't even see you're hurting worlds that exist within worlds that you can't even fathom by splitting an atom you have no idea what you're doing yeah um and we need to babysit you and we need a group of humans to understand this and hey here we'll give you some tech to help you contain it because yeah you guys are uh you're not headed in the right direction it can't be any other way yeah planets are more valuable than people sure this is a universe that is absolutely chock full of both so we have life at all levels of existence but the planets themselves are jewels of the universe so protecting those planets and it would would be uh the negantropic thing to do yeah you know it would be the thing that uh there's nothing else right like why wouldn't you do that yeah why wouldn't you do that why and that i guess that gets into another conversation which is the thing that i one of my biases or preconceptions was that there were good aliens and bad aliens but as you progress up the level of technology who are the bad aliens yeah that's that's exactly right yeah there's they're all there's varying degrees of good and bad i mean whatever you want to put on a spectrum if you want to do something like that it's just you zoom out far enough and there is no good or bad but right right we're clearly having a negative effect here yeah and and uh and that's okay yeah you know that's we're right where we're supposed to be i agree and we're supposed to be sort of waking up to this you know wider cosmos it's a freedom the cosmos recognizing what kind of universe we live in is a freedom it's a it's a you could call it a god-given uh freedom and and we have the right to understand the universe we live in and if we don't understand the universe we live in then we're kind of like bulls in an invisible china shop we're smashing into shit that we don't even know exists so that this is this is part of the process part of the process of what you call the ontocalypse i love that word ontocalypse yeah that's not my word but i love the word um yeah it's uh there's gentle you know ontocalypses like what we're doing now right and and then there's not so uh not so gentle you know you said something in this book which i which i love a little quote here uh perhaps the greatest mystery in modern history is that of alien visitation the second greatest mystery is why we are ignoring the greatest mystery i love that um because it is true it sounds insane yeah it does to to to to have this pot of gold be presented in front of you being like hey this is this is it this is the uh the ark of the covenant this is the the the holy grail endless wonders yeah you have it all yeah all and then for us not to even want to look at it right what's going on there and then also trying to recreate it elsewhere right it's like it's right here gill levin discovered evidence of life on mars and then he came back with the two viking rovers or the landers you know and then both landers they did five labeled release experiments on two locations they both came up positive every single time they ran the look they ran the experiment several different ways and they all came back positive for microbial life on mars now nasa for whatever reason decided not to um to go with that finding you know they said well it must there must be some other explanation and gill levin spent the rest of his life trying to disprove his own theory saying okay well what is the other explanation and he ran all the different chemicals and all the different experiments and all the different ways that they may have gotten some sort of false positive out of the fact that there is microbial life on mars right now as we speak i mean that's the the next step would be to send another over there and do some more experiments and and see if you could prove or disprove that idea but we haven't done that yet we have not sent another experiment we've spent a lot of money going back to mars not one of them i said yeah let's follow up on that crazy gill levin experiment not one of them and that tells me that there is uh resistance to the even there might be life on one other planet yeah it makes no sense that you would not go back i mean panspermia you know that doesn't even prove that there's life sure in the in the galaxy no but it just it gives us hope it gives us yeah it's the possibility it's one more dot yeah but we haven't even made that dot so when people come and they say disclosure is coming next week ain't no fucking way it's coming next week we can't even admit that there's microbes on mars right now yeah yeah it's going to be microbes on mars then it'll be a whole bunch of microbes on mars it'll be structures on mars and then from there it'll be you know you keep it away from earth a little bit and then eventually bring it home but like even to to the nasa point like i find it still strange that we barely have photos of the earth right i don't even know why that is like like i'm always like wait what they're like no it's a composite you're like what do you mean it's a composite right well because like the satellites are not far enough out to take a photo of the we sent out of orbit into deep space. Oh, quite a few. You didn't think you might want to strap one camera, one GoPro, one anything, and just take a selfie? Artemis. Where's all the footage from Artemis? Yeah. Artemis 2, well, they took a lot of moon photos, a ton of moon photos. There's a lot of moon photos that I didn't see. I looked at the Artemis photos. These are really crappy. Yeah. A lot of the phone ones are pretty good, actually, the ones from the iPhone. The guy from the iPhone is the better photos that. Yeah. Yeah, that was an incredible mission when you look at that and you're like, oh, my God, slingshotting around the moon. Yeah. I mean, it was amazing. Yeah. But where's the data? Yeah. There does seem to be stuff that I don't know for what reason, but they don't want to take photos of. Clementine. Yeah. They did that in the 90s. Yeah. I mean, the blue pearl was. How old is that photo? And that's still to this day. Over 50 years. Maybe the best photo we have. Yeah. Blue marble. The blue marble. That's right. Yeah. And. I don't know. I don't know what the reasoning there is. I do find it suspicious for some reason. I don't know what the reason is, but part of me goes to, well, maybe there's shit around our planet that's hanging out. Right. And that they're just like, that's going to be a lot of airbrushing. We don't want to do that. You know what I mean? Absolutely. That might be it, but. They don't want people to be thinking in that direction. Yeah. I don't want to encourage those kind of inquiries. Yeah. Not yet. That's not part of the plan. It's not part of the plan because once you make that leap, then you discover that there is this other technological society, more than one, but at least one, that's been building a bridge of their own technology to Earth. And we've been building our own technology, and we're sort of. And there's a gap there that we can then bridge with our technology to reach their technology, which would be a. A complete transformation of the way we organize and run this planet, you know? And not just energy, but in all areas of, you know, what I like to call the human control system. And the human control system is deeply embedded in this, in our system. It's, you know, it starts with school. It's media. It's the government. It's the military. And the heart. The heart of the human control system is language. Language is the baseline operating system for all of the other control systems. It's the first thing we learn. It's the first thing that was downloaded into our heads, and it's the bridge that we use. And the only bridge we use to communicate with each other is symbolic. We won't have any other way of reaching into my head and pulling out thoughts and delivering them to you. It's through that. It's through this language, and that's been crafted as a control system that can be superseded and outgrown. Of course, yeah. It's the best modality that we have for communicating, other than perhaps, like, memes and, like, videos and. Yeah, and all that's part of the language. You can speak with architecture. You can speak with dancing. I see. But it's all symbols. Yeah. Yeah, it all represents things. Right, right. It's not the thing. Exactly. Yeah. The thing itself would be the thought forms, would be the literal experience. So telepathy is not, like, mental radio. No, it's emotion. It's feeling. It's experience. Experience, yeah. You know, like, if you went to a concert, and you saw this amazing concert, and there was a great moment there, and, you know, you met someone you hadn't seen in years, and you wanted to share that with me, you could download that experience with all his thoughts and feelings in a 360-degree, not just your point of view, but your own. But all points of view. Yeah. Because that exists, that information. You could share that with me instantaneously. Mm-hmm. And that is real communication that breaks the barrier. Yeah, and it's simpler, yet more sophisticated. Right, right. And more specific. Like, you know, I liken it to, like, if a caveman is sitting on the edge of a cliff and looking out at everything, and there's a rainbow. And there's maybe a double rainbow. And there's, like, a sunset or whatever. It's just the most beautiful thing he's ever seen. And, you know, I write a book about this. I write a book about the scene. It's a 900-page book describing everything. Right. Down to the smell, down to the sound of the animals, and the homeostasis rhythm, and everything. It's just described perfectly in this book. Right. But the caveman looks at it, and he just goes, ugh. Right? And, like, that communicates way more to me. Like, who's more intelligent? Right? Me, who wrote this, like, giant novel. Right. Or this guy, who just goes, ugh. And you get it. And Jim Sparks, who was taught on the ship how to condense language into a symbol the size of a 50-cent piece. Yeah. And he said there would be a whole novel of information in just the symbols that were embedded in this tiny sort of symbology the size of a 50-cent piece. Like a sigil. Exactly. That contained information. That you could then download sort of instantaneously. Sure, yeah. That's incredible. Sacred geometry and whatnot. That is the next level to society, to communication, to sharing information. Technology. Technology. Sure. And that's a transformative event for all of us. And I think that that is one of the things that we're being sort of, you know, shied away from. That's why psi phenomena. That's why psi phenomena refuses to be investigated, or science refuses to investigate all of that stuff. It's more than just flippant ignorance of woo-woo stuff. We're talking about border work that's being done to guard the fortress of society. Yeah, because once that opens, it doesn't close. And it's opening. It's opening. It's opening right now. I want a cup of tea. Yeah, let's take a little break. All right. Should we record this? Yeah. Synchronicity can change your life. But opening yourself up to synchronicity is a technology. And it can be learned. I agree. And I think that that's what the Golden Dawn was doing. I think that that's what some of these magic with a K sort of efforts. We're imbuing in people. We were talking about this last night. And that's what I was thinking about last night when we were, after we left. That we're probing the outer garments of something that isn't science. And it isn't religion. It's something that both religion and science have been. Yeah, it's fundamental. Right. And that there's a fundamental revelation. There's a revolution in how we can understand the universe that will lead to technologies to how to utilize this fundamental essence that you were just talking about, which is defined as love. Yeah, I have been recently in the last few years, but more specifically in the last few months, implementing synchronicity engines in my life. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So I will introduce random probability, you know, whether it's bibliomancy, whether it's I have apps. Mm-hmm. So like that sends me a word every hour on the hour, a word that I might not know, like a new word. Right. And sometimes that'll be incredibly synchronous. Okay. Neat. Just for fun. Yeah, give us one. Verism. Mm-hmm. That's right now. That's the word that I just got. What's it mean? A style. Emphasizing realism and truth in art. Okay. That'll be the name of the new technology. Verism. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, that is, I do believe that synchronicity plays an important part if you want it to and if you let it, I think. And that's something that I've learned through my personal experiences and they can be debated. And what's beautiful about synchronicity, what I really find genuinely lovely, like beautiful as a magician, there is a duality of the nature of synchronicity because on one side, it's coincidence. Mm-hmm. And on the other side, it's just coincidence with meaning. Right? We're talking about the same thing. Right. You're talking about coincidence. I'm talking about synchronicity. We are literally saying the same things. Right, right. Oh, you wouldn't believe this happened, whatever. It's the same thing we're talking about. Right. Yet the interpretation of the information. Mm-hmm. It changes everything. Because of the observer effect. Correct. But you're going about your life. Right. Proving to me that it's just chance. Mm-hmm. And that will affect your life in this way. And that's what you'll get. Yeah. And I'm going into it thinking, I don't think it is. I think there's something more to it. Right. But statistically on paper, they're going to look identical. Right. You know, they'll both see, like, I mean, when someone describes a synchronicity to me, I'm like, that's the definition. It's the very definition of a coincidence, which is why it's so easy to find. Which is the beautiful duality of it, is that this skeptic, physical, materialist reality can coexist next to this fringe, esoteric, spiritual, whatever reality, and they can coexist together forever. And you can live happily if you're down here or down here. You might as well take the more magical road and live a more magical life, in my opinion. Which is why belief is the most powerful thing in the universe, you know, because that synchronous moment, it opens the door for it to be shared and create a shared experience. Like when you're doing your magic and you have a moment which is beyond your ability to comprehend, but it's a moment that happens with everyone. And then this egregore is created through the commingling. Of conscious observer experiences together, you're creating a third thing, whereas chance, that'll never happen. Yeah. That won't happen. Yeah. That gets cut off at the base. Yeah. Even though it's the same experience, you know, and that fostering of belief is what opens the door to this new technology. So we actually need belief as a component. Yeah. And belief can be used as a component. And belief can be used as a control system. Sure. Because you can believe that you'll go to hell unless you, you know, pay off the priest, you know, with your whatever. 16 Hail Marys or whatever. Yeah. And they were even like literally paying them off. They were buying their sins back in the day, which is why Luther, Martin Luther started the printing with the printing press, tacking that shit up onto the church doors, saying this is what's going on here. And that was the beginning of the end of the church, which is why they hated the printing press. They loved the printing press. They loved it at first, and then they hated it because they were exposing the control system that the church really was. And now science has taken over. Now we believe in science. Well, I trust the science. And that becomes a control system. It becomes a religion. Right. But the belief is the common thread that moves through all of that, including the belief in things like synchronicity, things like Psy, Gertrude Schmiedler. With her sheeps and goats, the sheeps had a much higher chance of experiencing Psy phenomenon, whereas the goats, the non-believers, they had a much lower chance of seeing or experiencing anything like that. And what's beautiful, once again, is that feeds into confirmation bias. So again, we're met with where the skeptic approach can make perfect sense. Exactly. So they're both coexisting. And every argument you have, the other side will have an equal and opposite argument. The only metric you can have is the outcome. And so when you have somebody living their life in a way that favors synchronicity, that favors perhaps a little bit more of a magical existence, and you see that the outcome of their life is them being genuinely content. And I'm not talking about success. I'm not talking about manifesting a yacht. I'm talking about looking at someone and realizing that this person is leading an objectively happier life or at least a more content and fuller life than the person who is sort of in a curmudgeon-y attitude, being skeptical about everything and proving that everything that this person did, well, that's just BS. It's all chance. Yeah, but what's not chance is that this person. Mm-hmm. Is living with a full heart. Right. And this person is really looking desperately for meaning in their life. Well said. I like that a lot. But they can coexist. You can't logic your way out of it. Yeah, but you can create that illusion that like, yeah, they're the same thing, of course. But that's the beauty of it is that they do. Yeah. You can prove one with the other, sure. But tying yourself to a materialist scientific viewpoint and saying, I'm open. I'm open to this stuff. I just haven't seen it because you're going to have to, you know, using logic, you're never going to make the leap. Yeah. There's only one way to make the leap, and that's to make the leap. Sure. Yep. Yeah. And you can't package anything into, like, you can't take something from another dimension and then try to package it into this one and try to explain it away with the tools that I have developed in this dimension. It's just not how that works. We have human tools that developed here on Earth for human ends, and we're trying to use these tools to explore this alien architecture that we have little hope of grasping. Yeah. Yeah, this is the tool. Yeah. I'd like to, if you're up for it, I'd like to speak about your encounter. You know, you've not talked about it much. And it's something that's deeply, deeply personal. I haven't talked about it at all. At all. Yeah. I told, I've had a couple of people that I respect and admire ask me to talk about it on different podcasts. But, you know, I can't talk about it, especially through the lens of a interface of a microphone and a camera. It's not something. It's not something that I could share unless I was sitting across from a human being who I trusted and was genuinely open to the possibilities. And I don't even know what all the possibilities are. I really don't. And I haven't talked about it at all. I won't say that it's sacred. It's sacred and it's profane. It marks a intersection in my life that there was no going back from. I didn't ask for it. I didn't have any concept of any. I didn't have anything that existed outside of the little world that I had been perfectly content to believe was perfectly real, you know. And the mundane world is beautiful. And there are, you know, magical things about it. There's a lot of magic in the world. But I just wasn't prepared. I just wasn't prepared for any of it. And it changed my life. Changed my life. Changed my entire life. Things that I was interested in, you know, like women and art and success. None of those things mattered anymore. And I didn't know what mattered. I didn't know what did. I mean, I had my daughter. I had the core, you know, reality that I carry. That I cared about. And probably, if it's possible, cared more about afterwards. But yeah, from one day to the next, I got to take this jacket off. It's getting hot in here. Yeah. Hi there. I am fully charged and here to tell you, Toy Story 5 is now on Disney+. Woody! Woody, Buzz, and Jesse are back for a brand new adventure with some seriously cool new stuff. What? Holy butterscotch! You said it, Jesse. And the best part? Power up your movie night and watch Disney and Pixar's Toy Story 5, now streaming on Disney+. Rated PG. Get more from every job with Kubota construction equipment. From SVL compact track loaders to KX compact excavators, Kubota brings proven performance, smart value, and job site reliability to the crews who count on their equipment. Every day. Built for demanding work and backed by dealer support, Kubota equipment helps crews stay productive through long days, tight timelines, and tough conditions. Yeah, okay. So, 2011. 2011, yeah. I was married for nine-something years. I was getting a divorce. Living alone. My daughter was with her mom. It was summer. It was probably August. Probably about this time of year. And, um. I can't sleep. sleep i've had this problem my whole life uh and uh so i have this ritual when i wake up in the middle of the night i'd usually get a couple of hours and then i'd be up in the middle of the night um and a lot of the times i just wouldn't be able to get to sleep and uh was taking homeopathic stuff which didn't really seem to do anything for me uh wasn't taking melatonin because i didn't like it um but you you get up in the middle of the night and get out of bed the doctor said you know don't lay in bed get out of bed go read so this was a ritual that i would have uh you get out of bed grab a book and uh lay on the couch and so it's you know probably uh two or three o'clock in the morning i i didn't know i i didn't i didn't bring my phone with me don't look at the phone don't look at it an ipad um you know the blue light and all that stuff so uh i'm laying on my couch so i've got a window here and the couch goes this way and uh and i've got a uh i've got a ceiling that looks like this with some beams on it and the the beams are are running this way and my my ceiling the uh the widow's peak thing is over there reading my book and uh um out of the top of my eye i see a fuzz a fuzz ball a ball of fuzz maybe the size of a um uh baseball and it's fuzzy and uh i'm looking at it and going that's like an out of focus spot what the fuck is that and then the spot starts getting bigger and it starts leaving the wall and floating through the air as this moving ball of fuzz and as it gets closer to me uh it starts to resolve into these three shapes they're about maybe the size of a large dinner plate each of them maybe like that big so they're so there'd be like these three butterflies shapes without a head it was like a snow angel if you made a snow angel in the snow these things that look like that just like that and there's three of them the middle one its wings are connected to the two outer ones and this this this this thing is coming towards me and i'm thinking i'm gonna die this is what happens this is what happens when you die fuck this is really bad uh and this this thing starts coming down and i have a coffee table that runs this way and i see that these butterflies are made out of like laser thread green thread red thread and then green and then red they're maybe a quarter inch apart so they're the outline of these three butterflies uh and in the center is this little baby butterfly in each center and in those centers the two threads one green one blue one red are forming geometric patterns in the in the middle and each middle is different so there's each core is forming three different geometric shapes the shape would last for about half a second and then change and then the little threads would start weaving again and then they'd form another perfect geometrical shape that i'd never seen before in my life they weren't like triangles they were like complex geometrical mathematical symbols in each one three of them all going at once at different times and i'm thinking obviously that these are what happens is to come and and take me away and i have all i feel is terror 100 unbridled fear is running through me i'm not jumping up i'm not running outside i'm not yelling i'm frozen in fear and these things they stop and they hover over my coffee table and they just sit there and they're blasting out these alien geometries um i'm panicking and nothing nothing happens they just sit there they're just sitting there and i'm laying like this and looking at these damn things and i'm my i'm just sweating and absolutely terrified frozen in fear and you know it was only later like days later that i was like the fuck was i doing you know why didn't i like you know like do something swap them away or yell at them or you know like all the things that you would normally do and i'm like i'm not going to do that i'm not going to do that i'm not going to do that i didn't do any of that stuff and uh i we just sat there for for a while and then they started moving towards me and i the panic shot through me again i would freak out and uh they stopped and they backed off what the fuck is going on what are you guys doing what the fuck are you and what the fuck is happening and then my heart beat would start slowing down because they weren't doing anything they're just sitting there so eventually i would my breathing would kind of return to normal and then they'd start creeping forward again and then i would panic again and then they would back off again and this maybe took 45 minutes of this that's such a long time it's beyond a long time especially when i mean just there's only later i know that i will get there so these things eventually start creeping towards this again this dance is going over and over and over i freak out what the fuck are you doing what the fuck are you what is happening they back off they wait i calm down they move forward over and over until finally i'm just sort of like okay well they're they're not doing anything and they they start and i keep my breathing under control enough and they start moving over my body so now they're right in front of me it's hovering you know over my mid midsection you know maybe around my knees and they're over my body now and now i'm looking at them head on and their little things are going off the three of them and they're making these incredible patterns and they're just sitting there they're just showing me they're showing me these insane alien geometries in two colors that look three-dimensional and you know that the things themselves are 2d i don't have depth they're just these flat alien interdimensional butterflies and they're sitting there and they're making these alien symbols at me and i start to calm down a little bit and i'm thinking to myself i now if this is a hallucination it's a hell of a hallucination because there's no way that my brain could be coming up with these patterns that i swear to god i have not and i had time to look at them and go what are those things what what are they are are they is it a language is it a symbol but but what they were and i tried drawing them later and i couldn't because i couldn't wrap my mind around what they were i knew they were mathematical they were perfectly they were precise they were in these two laser thread colors and they had some of them had depth this went on for quite a while uh and then they started moving towards my face and i panicked again and now i'm thinking oh this is what this was about these fuckers want to get in me they want they're they're coming they're coming at me they're they want to like invade my body and now i really start freaking out like then i was like oh my god this whole thing was a dance they're hypnotizing me it doesn't matter what those little crazy symbols are that was just to hypnotize me to get me into the state like a rabbit you know like the infrasound that a tiger makes it was just like lulling me into the sense that they were just going to overwhelm me and i really panicked and i thought i was right all along this really is what happens when you die they're just taking their time about it and they stopped and they backed off and they sat there and they kept doing what they were doing and now i'm thinking okay they do want to get in me but they want permission they want me to say yes and they're not going to come in until i let them and i was like guess what that's never happening that is not a thing that is going to happen between us and they just sat there and did their thing and i'm like you know we can do this all night now i'm being flippant about it now but at the time it was terror and i wasn't speaking i was thinking these things in my mind like this this can't be no fuck no uh and then and then they start coming towards me again and then we i panic they back off again and this goes on for probably another half an hour 45 minutes yeah this was not going away this was not a fuzzy hallucinatory you know experience this was this was wide awake in the middle of the night like you and me right here if this is real then that was real i don't know what else to tell you if this was real then that was real um and they were not going away they just were not giving up i mean it just went on for fucking ever and so finally i was exhausted uh the the kind of fear that would go through me wasn't just you know like freaking out it was like sharp i could feel it in my skin it was the kind of hormonal release in my body that hurt my skin like it was like waves of uh of of fear and adrenaline that that was a physical sort of my skin was hurting i remember thinking oh this hurts every time this fucking thing's come at me and that panic runs through me it's painful and but eventually i just i think they wore me down i think they they and and i was and i was i came to the conclusion that if these guys were here to hurt me or do something nefarious that they wouldn't be you know being so polite about it they wouldn't be so um they obviously wanted me to calm down i mean it took a long time for that to sink in but finally i'd sunk in they want me to calm down they're not they're not i'm gonna have to take the leap and say that they're not here to hurt me so i said okay in my mind i said okay do what you gotta do and just like they heard me they just started they started coming in they started coming at me and they started got closer and they got closer and they got closer and when they got about to hear i closed my eyes and i felt the threads pass through me i felt those vibrate vibratory laser-like threads pass into my skin pass into my bones into my body and i could see them i could see these threads and they felt like they were elongating so they didn't just pass through like that they passed through and then they elongated so they kept passing through like you know they just got longer and longer and longer and they're passing through me and passing through me this is really weird and then i um got an erection this rush of hormones went through my body gave me a lot of pain and i was like oh my god i'm gonna die i'm gonna die i'm gonna be a hard-on and this flood of like good feeling you know this relaxation this release this and it felt like hormones being released in my body like like things were the chemicals were sort of being unleashed or released and in my body and um and that's the last thing i remember i my consciousness drifted off it just it took and i and i don't it wasn't like turning out a light it was just sort of like getting dimmer and dimmer and and thoughts you know just drifted off and i remember climbing into bed and i remember um thinking that the sun was coming up and um i could still see the afterburn of those creatures in my mind because uh because i'd been staring at them for so long uh and i remember thinking yeah that's probably why because as as my eyes were closed climbing into bed i don't remember getting off the couch but i remember climbing into bed and still seeing the red and green threads in my in my sort of afterburn sort of eyeballs and uh and thinking that that was why and then i fell asleep and then i never woke up the next day i was somebody else just like that just like that just like that lights out on that life lights on and i'll you know i wasn't left with anything i was just left with was that was that what the fuck was that you know the next day i was just off on you know on trying to figure out what the hell had happened to me you know i don't know what the hell was that so years later um uh edgar mitchell put out his really thick experiencer book uh where they interviewed something like 3500 different people and they were like oh my god experiencers and they put that all together it's a great book the free book yep and uh according to their surveys the number one reported encounter is with an energy being and the number two reported encounter was with some form of gray alien and the number one place it happens is in your bedroom yeah yeah yeah the uh the um that made me that was interesting you know that uh i think that came out in 2017 or something like that uh 2018 like that yeah it was the biggest study done of like experiencers and it's what showed that they were mostly benevolent as well and yeah yeah and the human the human-esque types are also almost equally reported with the gray um there's a lot of different kinds of grays and this uh this energy being thing uh you know i've uh there's uh there's orbs there's intelligent plasmas but i have yet to uh define these guys these guys uh so if anybody out there knows anything i'd love to know what so you said you know obviously this changed you um from one day to the next you were just a completely different person did you feel in any sense different not because of the sort of traumatic experience of of witnessing something so insane but did you feel change perhaps because of something they left you i don't think so so i've asked myself that yeah i didn't get any psychic powers no downloads i didn't get any downloads none that you know of i i uh you know so i don't know i i was i went through a period where i was really uh i felt like i failed somehow like it was a test and i failed because i nothing happened they didn't come back they didn't uh you know i i wanted after that you know i i wanted answers i wanted them to come back so i could you know try to try to get some more information do you have any dreams about them or just nothing nothing it's so strange how it's so one-sided very one-sided but is it though right because like sure okay maybe they got what they needed from you somehow because clearly they wanted something from you like that they want it in they want right and they and they they but they needed your consent they did um but what it left you was a deeper sense of reality i mean you've it it completely changed your outlook on on everything right and and maybe perhaps due to the experience that you had um trying to build yourself up after that but even so shattered my entire life yeah no i mean nothing made sense anymore after that and i and i it was disrobed of my illusions that i thought i knew what the hell was going on around here i don't i don't know a damn thing i don't know anything and and that is never left i just uh don't know anything and that's a nice place to start you know a really interesting place to start i don't have the tools to to navigate whatever that was we don't have any answers we don't we can we can try to land one of the one of the hardest things is to resist the temptation to land on something you know just say well it was These were angels, you know, and find religion, you know, or any of the other, you know, sort of narratives that I could invent. And I could build whole dots around a number of different narratives, but I don't have any narratives, you know. But it did lead me to try to sort of, well, what it did was show me that the, and the first thing that I found, I talked to a psychic. I mean, I didn't believe in psychics, but I've talked to one. I talked to all kinds of different people. And Leslie Keen, her book, UFOs, Generals, Pilots, you know, talk about that. That book is from 2011. That book was brand new, just came out. I snatched that up and that was something concrete that I could hang my hat on and go, okay, something's going on here. Something is happening, you know. And that led me down the road and that was the closest thing I could find to, of a rabbit trail that would lead to some sort of answers about what kind of universe we're really living in. And that really became the question for me. What kind of universe is this really? What's really going on here? Come on. Yeah. Yeah, I'm sure a lot of people in your position that have had these earth shattering experiences that are so deeply personal that even saying them out loud feels like you're taking the air out of it. You know? But I'm sure a lot of those people like yourself have found solace in works like Leslie Keen's or even the 2017 New York Times article. Think of it what you will, but it provides, like you said, some level of concretizing, an experience that lives only in this one person's, you know, rear view and in their mind. It doesn't exist out here anywhere and you can't, you can't read on it. You can't. You can't look for it. And then when you have something like that, that's got to, it's got to be a good feeling. You have, you know, dots that you can put together. You have other people that have had these similar types of experiences. And that's the only reason that, um, that I would, uh, talk about it, you know, is to try to get offer back some of the solace that I took when I started reading and listening. And that's the only reason that, uh, I would, uh, talk about it, you know, is to try to get offer back some of the solace that I took when I started reading and listening. To other people's experiences that happened to them, that they went through, that, uh, also changed their lives in all kinds of different ways. And I think that it's time for us to, uh, to make it okay to talk about this stuff. I have no, no clue except for I know what happened to me and I know what I saw and other people do too. Did you face, um, did you talk about this at all when this came out? No. You just, you just kept it to yourself? I told my daughter. Wow. And that was it? Yeah. I told her briefly. Yeah. Yeah. She was young. And even then you're kind of like pulling your punches cause you don't want to overwhelm anyone. You don't want anyone to think, you know, you're, you've lost the plot or. And then I, I told a friend, a pretty good friend of mine, um, I was a bad idea. So I kind of cut that off. Did they, did they make? Did they make fun or was it. No, no. You just don't know what to do with it. Right. You know, you just, you just don't, as soon as you start talking, as soon as I started talking about it, I was like, this is not, this is, this was a mistake. Right. I don't, you know, this is not, nobody's prepared for any, anything. Yeah. What are you supposed to do with that? Right. Yeah. Right. Right. I needed to, you know, I wanted to, this was right after it happened. I needed to. Of course. Share it with somebody, but that was a bad idea. I told, I told my sister. I mean, I wouldn't say it was a bad idea. It was probably a good idea, but probably just, yeah, maybe not timely. I told my sister, she came over, you know, her, her birthday was in August. So we were celebrating her birthday. And then, yeah, that was one of the last times we, we, we hung out together, you know, and she died a few months after that. But that was sort of one of the, she was, she was a little more, you know, she, I grew up with her. So she was a little more. Um, I got a little more out of that interaction with more receptive. Yeah. But, you know, you quickly learn that this is not something that, that you're, that's going to help where you're not, you're not going to get any answers and you're not, and you're not, not going to make you feel any better. Right. By sharing this, you know, you might just like push people away. Yeah. Right. That's you totally understand. It's totally understandable. Yeah. Yeah. That rationality that you have about it is something that I found in. Most experiencers that I hold in high conviction is the sense of, I get it. You're going to think I'm crazy. I get it. I would too. And that is said by everybody who's had these experience. If I were you, I wouldn't believe me. There's no way you can believe. Exactly. But that's also for me, like a, a really, that increases my conviction on it because that's how I would be too. I, if I tried to imagine something like that happened to me, I'd be like, how do I even. And especially, you know, people know me as a magician. They're going to think, oh, this is just some trick or something. Like how would I even communicate that? And, and, and the need to want to communicate it and be understood and connect with people is probably really dire. I had to write it down. Yeah. I had to write the book. The book's not for even people who are alive right now. The book is for the future. The book is for when we can understand. These kinds of experiences in a better light. And I'm hoping that it's helpful to people in, in, in the present, you know, but we're really, we're, we're laying the groundwork for a new ontology that is coming. And we will get there and we're getting there now. And every voice that we, we can use everybody's voice right now. We really can. We're, this is, I was saying earlier that, you know, understanding what kind of cosmos we really live in is a freedom. Freedoms are never granted or taken every time in history, freedom of speech, you know, the freedom of equality. These are taken. They're never granted. Disclosure is not going to be granted to us. We are going to take it. And we're going to do it by sharing these kinds of experiences with each other and building the bridge to what the real world looks like. It's the only way to do it. It's what the, it's what the watch guard said. Revolt. Yeah, you can build the world, you know, a revolution can be done. Huh? Do you need to do it yourself? Could you draw what the being look like just so I can show the audience, give them a loose idea of, of perhaps. Hi there. I am fully charged and here to tell you Toy Story 5. Is now on Disney+. It's been too long. Cowboy. What? Holy butterscotch. You said it, Jesse. So save your batteries and watch the global phenomenon at home. And the best part, it's perfect for the whole family. Power up your movie night and watch Disney and Pixar's Toy Story 5. Now streaming on Disney+ rated PG. From SVA.com. From XVL compact track loaders to KX compact excavators. Kubota brings proven performance, smart value and job site reliability to the crews who count on their equipment every day. Built for demanding work and backed by dealer support. Kubota equipment helps crews stay productive through long days, tight timelines and tough conditions. You just have to imagine that there's three of these. Yeah. This guy helped me cut off. Basically, take these guys. Oh, this is all fucked up. took a two really concentric lines alternating one red thread one green thread laser thin like threads like threads made a laser were they physical or did you see through them they were physically couldn't see through the threads right so they were they were like dense they had a density to them they had whoa laser quality to them definitely they were glowing threads like yeah wow and green and red too that that's got to be such a strange visual distortion seeing threads so closely together like some illusion like how many would you say of these threads uh in in sort of in this concentric pattern i would just be guessing but hundreds or or dozens yeah yeah i would you know i would just be guessing you could count them if you had to before you had to count them yeah that there may be um anywhere between 50 and 75 you could count them if you had to before you had to count them yeah that there may be um anywhere between 50 and 75 okay yeah a lot yeah but it would limit you know a lot but not infinite i mean as basically as many threads yeah each one was about that big you know and in the center would have been the uh the little baby dude baby butterfly and that's where the the little shapes if you had to draw the shape just the shape like one shape in particular that you might have seen is there any way that you could or is it like a it's like a tesseract essentially like a like a fourth dimensional object depicted in three dimensions or something it only lasted for um uh maybe let let maybe a half a second you know it would be frozen in space the image sorry the image would be frozen in space for half a second really and then the and then the image would be frozen in space for and then the threads would disentangle they'd start whipping around each other and then they'd freeze again uh with another brand new shape how strange just the general idea like was that do you think i mean you've probably contemplated this in so many ways it must be so frustrating to an extent because you're not given any clear answers and all you can do is sort of impose your own anthropomorphic view on it like are they communicating with each other are they trying to communicate with you are they are they talking is this even a language is it random is it well it wasn't random yeah i mean it was really specific whatever the hell they were and i never saw the same shape twice really yeah so you know we were in a language you'd think they were there'd be some yeah the word comes back or something yeah yeah never saw the same one twice and uh no the uh the middle of the damn thing would have been something like this you know sort of a and then the two threads you know one would come in this way and the other would come in like they were weaving something like a spider that's right just like a spider and it was like creating yeah a symbol and then there would be this you know this this weird little architect incredible architecture inside this thing that would be you know what the hell they were can't can't yeah no yeah i mean i wouldn't know where to begin either but that's thank you that's fascinating yeah so you got the you got the impression that these were three distinct entities this wasn't one entity or was that i couldn't tell yeah i mean there's no answer there yeah that's what's so frustrating about this like there's no precedent and there's no comparison sometimes i wonder if the whole thing wasn't a technology right like something else was outside the room yeah that may have been this thing may have been something that was created for a purpose and they send it in you know jeez it's like the cia out in a van you know and they're and they're they're sending in some microwaves through a through a window so yeah how to burn somebody's hands or something and you know but this is sort of an interdimensional thing and i think that's what's so fascinating about this interdimensional technology being sent from some other dimension into into my living room i don't know i can't imagine you know if you were to if you were to apply religious lens to that and you were this was this happened 800 years ago which you would definitely do you know what would it look it'd be angels right it would be angels it would be either angels or demons like i mean those are the that's the binary you know there's the amount of options you have um that's right but that would definitely be oh man it's so strange that's so strange because here we are this clearly physical object that is behaving so strangely that seemed to have appeared out of nowhere this apparition and for a ball of fuzz yeah so it entered and it also caught my attention and i've always i've always wondered i'm reading a book i'm always wondering did i see it out of the corner of my eye or what or or was there a little signal sent to for me to look up at it because they the hypnosis started as soon as i saw the fuzz yeah you there's no going back to the book i was frozen i don't even know what happened to them yeah the book's out of the question yeah uh but my consciousness was laser focused on that damn thing as soon as it was a ball of fuzz in the corner uh you know and it came in where the where the wall met the ceiling that crack that seam it made its way in through a crack i don't know but it appeared right in the crack you know in this fuzz and and it stayed there long enough for me to go the hell is that and and that was it it was like it was on you know my my my something took over obviously something locked on to my consciousness at that moment yeah i remember that moment and that that's when it and that and but my thoughts were free i was free to think all of the normal thoughts and you weren't being put there was nothing being put into your head i just i just didn't move i couldn't you're terrified i didn't i didn't think about moving yeah so i don't know if i was uh that was induced induced or if i i don't know if i was my body was frozen the way we read about in a lot of you know um aliens have the ability but you hear about that to freeze you know stop a guard from drawing its gun freeze them but keep the autonomic nervous system intact so they can breathe and they can look around but they can't move but you hear about people not being sure is what i'm saying there are a lot of people who said i don't know whether i was just afraid or whether they stopped me from moving yeah that's true and then other people do yeah feel they've been frozen yeah i don't know i i think i was i mean i i think i think that's not the way i would have behaved you know it's a normal person it's almost um it's almost strangely predatory also predatory do you know what i mean like there was like the way that you're describing it is like incredibly invasive um it's invasive but so strange that like they would need your permission yeah like they needed it because otherwise yeah they're doing they're coming towards you anyways they could have just kept coming towards you respected my my free will that makes me think that there's a benefit there for you then too they also didn't go away yeah you know right they were just waiting for you to wait they were wearing you down waiting for me to give up but they did need my permission they did need my permission they weren't going to they were whatever the experience was it was not going to be invasive even though it was invasive they weren't going to do what they were going to do until it was an acquiescence of that we're going to do this you know let's do this dance let's do where we need we're going to do this and it's a matter of time before you say yes that's scary this is happening what's something you would have done differently in that moment like now that you've had time to think about it would you be like man i wish i would have grabbed them or i wish i would have filmed them or i wish i would have talked to them out loud or screamed at them or thrown something at them is there anything you wish you would have done yeah slightly different all of those things i wish i would have done but i but at the end of the day i don't i'm not kicking myself because there was nothing i could have done differently there's no other way that that could have played out maybe a little bit long or maybe i could have held on a little bit longer before they uh before they had their way with me but uh did you ever think they would have i would have done this to another family member like i would have liked to uh gotten some answers sure if i could if i could have it my way i i would uh i would want to know what the hell where they're what they're from what they want what they're doing what it what they did to me yeah you know what they got you know what what they what they left i i would like answers i'd like to know what happened when i lost consciousness that's really what i'd like to know but i'm actually kind of terrified you don't want to do any of the regressive stuff i haven't done any regressive stuff yeah i'm thinking maybe maybe that i might but but i'm i don't want to yeah that's fair and i would go with your gut on that yeah do you know do what feels right in that case don't force something like that yeah i i don't i don't feel at the end of the day that it was in that it was um bad bad you know but it was a negative thing i and it's i wouldn't wish that on anybody in the world but i'm actually incredibly grateful did you have anybody in the house in the house with you my daughter was at her mom's that night do you think it would have changed how yeah absolutely yeah and i thought about that a lot if my daughter was in the other room that would have been a completely different experience yeah you go to her first i whatever well i i don't know but it would have been a completely different experience all i would have been thinking about yeah of course it's of course you know but she wasn't in the house you need yeah it's probably part of it it's probably part of it they probably knew that they obviously they knew that gosh i i it's so funny but i desperately want you to have an answer i know that you must obviously want your answers but like i want you to have an answer i want you to have an answer i don't want the answer i just want you to have it i feel like you deserve an answer i feel like that's show me something that's strange and don't give me an explanation is like the the sickest joke you could pull on somebody like what are you doing here like give give give give the man something and for years this was not a thing that you could i had any inkling of that i could um share this with anyone but i did start writing all uh stuff down you know i started writing stuff down right away and i and i knew that i needed to share the experience i knew that became part of the journey relatively soon i'd say within a six months i was sitting on my um back deck and uh looking at the stars and i and it just came over me i need to write all this down i need to write everything about everything that i can about all of this and i need to write it down if not not for now then just as a record for somebody this needs to be and that just sent me on on the journey you know and that's uh it's it's where the book comes from maybe that's the whole point you know who knows i mean i i have to kind of believe that yeah i have to believe that there's a point and i have to believe that we're slowly building the bridge to a new to a new reality to a new life a new world yeah we can create a new world it exists it's real have you ever done um like psychedelics yeah have you tried to like i have figure out what it was yeah yeah so what have you tried what have you gone down i smoked dmt with paul heinick with paul heinick yeah that was the reason i did it i was like maybe they're over there yeah they're waiting for me let's go see them maybe this is the maybe this is where i supposed to meet put the dots together and meet them and what came from that nothing no do you have a good time i got a lot out of it yeah i went to the center of the universe and met the the mother of the cosmos so you know there's it's there's a lot of value it's not nothing in dmt let me tell you yeah that that was stunning and i think that all of these modalities are leading us toward the same thing i i think that there is a um that the universe is constructed of a non-local essence that we call love it's a human word that we use to to talk about a innate connection that we all share that exists everywhere and ever all at once and for all time and that we're all born from this s this this desire this impulse to be the impulse to create the impulse to to join together to create to create novelty to be in the universe i think it's happening everywhere all at once i think it's the heart of synchronicity and uh you know we call it love because we're humans and we need to you know make make vowels funny noises come out of our mouth to talk about stuff that oh yeah i know what you're talking about that thing that doesn't have a really very good definition but we all know what it is i think the universe is made out of that and then you know i think that's a hell of a revelation yeah well said and i think i agree with you i think that that to me is becoming more and more clear as i'm on this journey myself discovering things about myself uh you know through these conversations through these very cathartic interactions i'm also coming to that conclusion and uh you know that's that's one of those things that like when you have a revelation like that as you go down this it makes you feel good do you know what i mean it's not just like an intellectual stimulant right you have an emotional stimulation that is occurring much like the one when you create a bond with someone or a connection with someone or you know or or or have someone in your life that you care about or or a memory like these things are more than information on a piece of paper that we can study with science and it's and we can still study it with science yeah but we have to start injecting uh some love into the situation yeah i would think so we're never going to get there i mean yeah and why not i mean isn't that the greatest thing in the world i think so dude like we'd we'd had this conversation with dr mossbridge found a substantial increase in sciability when someone was experiencing unconditional love such a great dot well that's such a fantastic clue that's such a touchstone yeah that mossberg is found and put together i mean that is a ledge that we can build it's the keyhole yeah it really is yeah it's the keyhole you're like oh wait and i think it's the beginning of learning how uh these um entities and i don't think they're non-human uh the consciousness the intelligence that we're dealing with it's not non-human it's non-local and that non-local technology starts with what we're calling love this non-local essence it's a information system it's just not uh it's just not local yeah i wonder if you know if you go back in time like let's say i try to picture myself right let's say i am i am an alien and which i am by the very definition but let's say i'm i'm out here and i've developed technology that understands that love is a very strong energy it is um a fundamental property of the universe and how technology works and everything and i can use that to somehow bounce around the universe or or you know talk to people in their minds or whatever it is and i i you know i i posit this idea to myself like if you were an alien and you were zipping around 2000 years ago and you just you see this like emanating force on the planet and you go what is that right and like a moth to a flame you're like that's creation energy that's a lot of energy where it was oh there's a guy there and he's just like emanating this you know and like maybe to them i i always thought like what a strange idea to be like you're zipping across and then that's what made them go that wait really interesting what do we have here we have this you don't even know what they have these people this is an analogy that uh you know and maybe that's why we're being studied that's one of the things that dr paul parada was told on the ship or wherever the hell he was with the uh human-esque alien really he was up there for three days he starts freaking out again he's like i want to go home i miss my kids i miss my family this is really fucking weird i'm overwhelmed you guys are jamming information into my head and i can't take it and one of the aliens goes come here he goes you are made of love he goes all of that all your fears all of your bullshit throw all that shit away there's only one thing that matters and that's love and you connect to that love and he goes i'll show you how to do it right now and he connected paul to his family and paul says he was there in the space the laboratory but his kid his own living room appeared before him and he saw his two children playing and he saw his wife looking after the kids and paul was overcome with this overwhelming feeling of love and he looked at one of his kids the little one the little three-year-old and he said i love you and the kid turned and looked around and smiled at him and then they kind of went away and then the aliens told him he said everybody carries within them this flame you and we see that flame and we're attracted to that flame and some people have bigger flames than others but people with a with a big flame those those are the people we're attracted to we study that whoa yeah that's dead on yeah that was the thought that i you know if you're traveling and you see that you go what is that over there you know and that like in my head i was like maybe that was like maybe that like in my head i was like maybe that like in my head i was like maybe that jesus guy a couple thousand years ago was just this like being that had a lot of love you see all these depictions of angel the hearts with these beaming rays of light and stuff and i thought maybe this is just and who knows what he is yeah you know maybe he's also alien i don't know right but you know that would be um if love is a fundamental property of the universe of understanding technology then obviously it's of interest right to people you know seeking it who don't have it perhaps or don't have as much abundance of it yeah and studying it and you know do they are they trying to figure out ways to create space to foster more sure that's what an ai would do right what is love and they would like just grow things and be like oh that's the other thing paul's parada said he said they don't feel emotions the way we do he said they don't have the familial attachments that we do they don't they're not they're not all you know getting bent out of shape about shit now they kind of no extremes right yeah and yet they're they have this innate sort of fascination but also connection to this um this he described it as a flame you know that we all carry and then you have these other beings um from joseph uh the wonderka right who cried yeah yeah weeping who who weeped at like something very emotional you know and and so his pain his own pain and frustration at the world that he lived in and the first thing out of his mouth was how do we fix this this is a mess adolf hitler just killed 40 million people yeah and to them that's like over stimming they're like whoa and like that's too much emotion we don't feel that emotion normally they started weeping yeah yeah incredible um okay i think it's about time for some questions from the audience what do you think you down to answer a few questions oh my yeah you only got a few like three or four yeah all right i'll go turn the camera on um okay let's get into some of these interesting questions the audience always has the best questions you know i'm i'm cherry picking great but as soon as your name came out too it was like flooded uh so many people were very curious about what you had to say so um let's go here this is from tess how do you do that from your perspective as a storyteller which piece or pieces of purported fiction most closely resemble the facts yeah that's a great question yeah well obviously close encounters they did their homework and they certainly did um the fire in the sky and a completely alter the uh abduction experience that has really never been filmed and i uh i would love to do that you know i would love to uh film and i've worked on a screenplay about the abduction experience um the uh made for tv movie uh based on uh the bud hopkins book oh yeah it wasn't bad yeah no yeah that was that was creepy yeah with the uh with the hybrid stuff and like man that creeped me out yeah yeah it was based uh randall nickerson was a consultant on that as well they really did their homework they really tried to to get the aliens right you know in fact some of the pictures online of that those aliens are still circulating circulating as real aliens uh they did a great job what'd you think of disclosure day i um i'm a huge steven spielberg fan same yeah yeah there's all there you know so i'm i'm a movie lover there's a lot to love in the disclosure day you know and i and i hope it opens the door to make uh more more movies i've got a great script about um uh calvin parker oh yeah yeah and charles hickson yeah pascagoula pascagoula case in 73 that's a really interesting uh contact experience story that took over the nation in 73 and really sparked a lot of the debates that went on and of course that was uh the year of the humanoids according to david webb who wrote a fantastic monograph about that but hell of a year 73 um all over the world humanoid landings it was a hell of a wave and hickson and parker really got caught up in the in the brunt of it you know it ruined both of their lives especially the young one poor calvin you know he uh he that dogged him for the rest of his life he really had trouble integrating that experience into his life and i think that that is a wonderful story uh that needs to be told yeah i'm surprised it hasn't been there's so many stories though as you know that would make for incredible movies his two brothers wrote a wonderful screenplay really yeah and i've got it i'd love to turn that into a film you wouldn't need a whole lot of money these days to do so something like that so that's something that i have on the nice books you know i think that would be a good thing to do oh definitely that's a really compelling and strange story um also i'm really surprised no one's done like a genuine blockbuster on roswell i know like that blows my mind i pitched a roswell miniseries i mean look at around we took it to all the things all the uh studios all the outlets and we couldn't get anybody they're like yeah it sounds like a period we don't do you guys not know no you guess you really don't i'd hit it from like i'd man i'd hit it from such a strange angle like for today's audience i'd be like a24 angle where you're one of the perhaps counterintelligence officers and it's just slice of life yeah that's the way to do it and you're just following this guy as he's like you know putting the kids to bed or whatever marcel yeah exactly you have no idea oh jesse of anything and all of a sudden in the background there's all this stuff happening but you don't really know it's follow mac brazel yeah these two guys on opposite ends you know it was kind of kind of great as they both kind of changed sides by the end of that experience yeah it's true you know that's a that's a really neat story we tried to do it as a miniseries maybe we make a better movie i mean just roswell you know obviously or or just 1947 would also work as a title i mean those are great title um you had this series there's well i mean there's roswell the series of uh on like the cw about you know some teenage kids being aliens and living among us or whatever some heartthrobs that makes it a little harder it does make it a little harder stuff you know for the for the studios to sort of wrap their head take it seriously yeah yeah but then josh boone is a roswell fanatic he's got all this wonderful research and i'm hoping that he gets to do that that'd be cool there's um taken by spielberg yeah the 10 part miniseries oh great and it's available on youtube if anybody wants to watch it i highly recommend it because it covers it goes so deep like from from from telepathic abilities from having an alien uh from screen memories of nazis and from like crash retrieval it's very on the nose and and that plus close encounters plus disclosure day this guy knows stuff i'm just i mean he's got he's playing coy he's done his homework dude he's done more than his homework let's be honest here spielberg i would imagine that you'd have people coming out of the woodwork to tell you what's what's happened well so they had you know obviously uh jay allen heineck as a consultant for close encounters of third kind they had somebody play uh jacques valet so there was some inside baseball going on there there was crates of you know skunk works and and whatnot yes um all that stuff was uh you could learn all that stuff at that time um without having any insider knowledge the hand scanner i've heard yeah i mean that's that was pretty inside baseball i think that he probably picked up some details from different people but that was going on everywhere yeah you know like the ufo guys the researchers they were all picking up these little tidbits who consulted for disclosure day though i i haven't i looked at the credits i couldn't find any of the credits couldn't really find anybody that like fit the bill in terms of you know whistle but like i would have had some of these whistleblowers be like hey what do you know the rumor is that uh they approached some intelligence approached spielberg that's the rumor yeah that's that's a rumor for close encounters yeah yeah you know still compelling and spielberg you know no matter what he does it's always going to be magical agreed that scene where they walk through the walk the child into the woods i mean gives me goosebumps that scene is worth watching the entire movie just for that scene the capturing dude yeah taking the child in this sort of hansel and gretel scenario right because this is what it is it ends up being horrific really when you think about it you have this like oh it's cute animals this nice little gingerbread home in the middle of the woods very magical and then it starts spinning and becoming clinical yeah and and a slab dude i mean those are yeah i terrified it was like i've read accounts about uh children will have like big bunny rabbits come into their room and play with them and then take them out the window and that's how they take a lure them on to craft that seems nefarious yeah yeah i mean it does you know when you in that in that moment when i watched that scene i felt slighted for the kids yeah like just stay bunnies then what are you doing well you got to turn in these ugly things and like on this metal slab all of a sudden with these white lights like just stay the deer there's some sort of uh impregnation of our newest sphere of our human uh this field of human consciousness we're being impregnated with this stuff you know they don't have to reveal themselves at all they could do all that stuff and knock every experiencer out while they're sleeping take them onto the craft never wake them up then put them back in their bed they could do that for decades right yeah there's a reason there yeah that's a good point um okay from alan pugock i don't know how to spell that or pronounce that barker star wars the mandalorian and grogu is now streaming on disney plus what are you waiting for hop on the must-see galactic adventure comes home on disney plus this is the way our only chance is to work together i like this kid always wear your seatbelt star wars the mandalorian and grogu now streaming on disney plus rated pg-13 get more from every job with kubota construction equipment from svl compact track loaders to kx compact excavators kubota brings proven performance smart value and job site reliability to the crews who count on their equipment every day built for demanding work and backed by dealer support kubota equipment helps crews stay productive through long days tight timelines and tough conditions performance that pays you back get more from every job with kubota construction equipment have other hollywood figures shared ufo encounters with you and can you share them the answer is yes and no because i don't have their permission would you share it without with uh keeping the source anonymous i'd i'd rather not sure yeah fair enough fair but how many would you say not very many okay so a few no and would these be uh names that people would be familiar with sure really yeah what do you think is their reluctance to want to come forward that's career or yeah everyone's on the on the journey you know we're all trying to muddle our way through this and uh It is not for the faint of heart. And there are consequences, and there have been consequences. And I think that that's changing. And I'm willing to say that that should change. You know, we should be a lot lighter with this. You know, we don't have to believe or not believe. We should just take this a little lighter. You know, this isn't, you know, no one's forcing poison down your throat. Just take it easy. It's okay. You know, we can all get along to get along. Yeah, I agree. Were any of those stories, did they involve beings? Not that I know. Mostly some. Okay. All right. Interesting. And I'm sure, you know, hopefully with, you know, podcasts and conversations like the one we're having and the ones like this, you know, that'll make it commonplace to talk about. For so many, God, there's just so many, so many people out there. I mean, yeah, we're still living in it, but we're, the ice is melting. Yeah. Yeah. This one from Hex. Kind of answered this in a way, but it's maybe a different question. If you could go back and watch your 2011 experience as a fly on the wall, would you? That entire experience is burned into my head in 1080p in a way that will never go away. And a fly on the wall, I guess that would mean sort of from an outsider perspective, right? Sort of like watching myself go through that. Ha ha. No, I wouldn't want to watch myself go through that. No, that would be really embarrassing. To see the utter terror on my face, you know, as a man who's just, you know, meeting the angels that are going to steal his soul away. And, you know. Give you, die of a heart, be found the next day, dead of a heart attack or something on the couch. It's like that, that's what that was, you know. That would have been the look on my face. Yeah. Sheer terror. Yeah. You know, but the terror of death, you know. And that was the other confrontation, you know, as kind of started this conversation. Fear has been, you know, something that I think that I've been put here to, or it may be part of the lessons that I'm supposed to be learning. In this life. Whoa. That just occurred to me. Yeah. That's the first thing you mentioned on this conversation was that, you know, if there was a lesson for you to learn, it's overcoming that fear. Part of it. But then what did those things do? Right. When they sensed you were fearful, they stepped back. Yeah. They were helping you learn that lesson. It's possible. Whoa. I mean, whether that was intentional or not. I don't know, but maybe. Maybe. Well, or maybe just a synchronicity. Right. Right. Okay. Last one here from T.H. Perry. This is a good one because you got a lot of these in your book. Which older UFO cases? Most shape. How you see the phenomenon's long history. The phenomenon's long history. How I see the phenomenon's long history. Right. So, well, it has to be the encounter cases, you know, and the earlier encounter cases are also phenomenal. And the fact that they started as far back as our records go really, you know, and again, Preston Dennett, is a great resource for this, but the cases from the 1910s, the 1920s. In Canada, there's a few there, too. The 1930s, you know, the cases that happened before 47, the first worldwide UFO wave of 47 is what kicked off this sort of, this whole endeavor, this whole transformation. But the groundwork was being laid for decades before that. We just didn't have the language. And some folks, like Evelyn Wendt, who in 1923 was playing, was that a Canadian case? She's playing in her schoolyard in the grass. And this ship comes down out of the middle of nowhere and these robotic flower beings get out. And they're basically her height, you know, she's like a seven-year-old girl in 1923. And the beings got out. And they got, were really upset about the science building on the property. And they told her that if the work in the science building continued, they would blow it up. It's just these bizarre cases. These flower people are like, the work must stop in the science building. And then they went in their craft and they dragged out this huge, heavy instrument. And she didn't know if it was a weapon or what the hell it was. And they asked her to help her. And she's trying to lift this. She said it was way too heavy. And then they basically put it back in the ship and took it. And they said, before they took off, they said, we're going to be back for you in 35 years. And then they flew away. They never came back. And she lived in terror for 35 years. They never did come back. 50 years later, as an older lady, she told that story in 1973 because all of the other humanoid cases were coming out. So she said she wanted her story to be recorded, even though it had started in 1923. So that was a big change. It was a big transformation for me, you know, just helping to sort of take shape, to put a shape to the phenomenon. Yeah. Udo Wartena, same kind of thing came out in the 80s. Right. And it wasn't even him that came out. They found, like, his detailed account. That's right. In writing. Yeah. You know, after he passed. Yeah. That's cool. Yeah. And being like, yeah, I was, you know, prospecting. Right. They took me on board and showed me. Showed me the tech. And there's a case from the thirties in Italy, uh, where this artist, um, I found that one's on a little iffy around because he was an artist and a writer and it just felt like he may have been cat that he told his account in the 50s so i think there's a little bit of that yeah going on oh definitely i mean you look at dan fry you look at you know george adamski and this whole bizarre sort of right for a space brother movement which really bothers me because there really are these tall blonde human-esque aliens so i'm of two minds were the were was that contactee movement instigated by the human-esks knowing that that it would wouldn't be believed knowing that or was that groundwork laid were those folks tapping into some sort of non-local information system where the egregore you of the human-esque alien everyone just sort of coming together yeah comes together in the subconscious in some fashion are we tapping into you know and that happens that's a phenomenon the multiples phenomenon the calculus was invented by two people at the same time or you know the steam engine four people invented it at the same time so there seems to be this sort of non-local sort of information system that we're drawing from and then that that happens at at certain moments and then we're like oh my god we're like oh my god we're like oh my god we're like oh my moments in uh in society things reveal themselves in different ways but i don't know yeah and you know it's a shame because at the heart of it a lot of these experiencer phenomena at the heart of it there there always is like some truth and we've seen so many examples or at least you know nothing we can prove but where the initial experience you know i'm usually pretty high conviction on you're right but then after that there's like the more you know fantastical stuff that keeps happening right and it was andy from uh that ufo pod what i was chatting to i think recently and he's he had a really good analogy it was like if my son came up to me and said dad i i flipped the bottle and it landed i did the bottle flip and i landed and then you know i had no reason not to believe him but then if every day after that he's like but i flipped it twice and it landed on the head and i'm like i'm not gonna believe him i'm not gonna believe him i'm not gonna believe him and then i did a backflip and i flipped it and it's like and you got to keep believing him eventually you kind of go i don't know if i can believe all of this yeah and then it takes away from the initial bottle flip exactly and then people throw the baby out with the bath water and that's just kind of a tragedy yeah but we're gonna get you know we're gonna get all that yeah gonna be part of it well i appreciate you um coming on this podcast and having a discussion with me not only that i appreciate you spending time with me and and and um i really enjoyed it it was super fun yeah and then it was it's uh there's a bit of cathartic uh in there too i'm glad well you're welcome anytime um i hope uh you get you find some resolve through this uh through the release of your book which is going to be greatly anticipated um let me know you know when that comes out and i'll be happy to scream at the top of my lungs it's a fantastic read i'm not just saying that uh it really is well written thanks yeah and uh i've learned of a bunch of new cases because of it so it's very exciting for me i love that i love digging up into the stuff but i really appreciate it it's such a great couple of days and um it's really neat really neat to be in the skiff thanks for having me really well means a lot pleasure is all mine hi there i am fully charged and here to tell you toy story 5 is now on disney plus it's been too long cowboy woody buzz and jesse are back for a brand new adventure with some seriously cool new tech what holy butterscotch you said it jesse so save your batteries and watch the global phenomenon at home and the best part it's perfect for the whole family power up your movie night and watch disney and pixar's toy story 5 now streaming on disney plus rated pg get more from every job with kubota construction equipment from svl compact track loaders to kx compact excavators kubota brings proven performance smart value and job site reliability to the crews who count on their equipment every day built for demanding work and backed by dealer support kubota equipment helps crews stay productive through long days tight timelines and tough conditions performance that pays you back get more from every job with kubota construction equipment