Hollywood Actor Shares Wild Alien Encounter Stories - Thomas Jane | ep. 101

I've always been terrified. Just in general? I think it's part of what I'm here to learn. You find meaning in everything once you have a purpose, a journey. And I think that it's time for us to make it okay to talk about this stuff. I don't have any answers. I have no clue, except for I know what happened to me. I know what I saw. And then I never woke up. The next day, I was somebody else. Yes, hello. I'm calling to report an incident that happened when I was active-duty military, U.S. Army in Kitzken, Germany, in 2002. We were at the firing range, and a gigantic UFO appeared above us. And most people were like frozen in time, like just frozen, including myself, but I could see, I could move my eyes. And I had a cigarette in my hand before the incident happened. And when it ended, the cigarette was burnt all the way down to the filter. So, we definitely lost time, like a few minutes. And I did hear a voice in my head speak to me. And what it said was that not to be afraid that they weren't going to harm us, but they were collecting a DNA scan. And ever since then, I have had some very strange streams, very strange downloads. I watch your podcast all the time and just wanted to leave this information that it definitely, it has happened to me. Welcome, Thomas Jane. Thank you. For those of you who are not familiar with some of your work, I would definitely type them out on IMDb, and you'll probably recognize a few movies, at least, at the very least, that you've been a part of. I mean, just, I found out yesterday, you've done a lot of Stephen King movies, actually. Three of them. Yeah, The Dreamcatcher, 1922. And then The Mist. Yeah. The Mist, which is an amazing movie by every standard, I think, to this day. It's just like one of those really, really incredible ones. Have you, by the way, have you, on a side here, have you seen Widow's Bay? No, not yet. It's on Apple. It's great. What is it? It's a horror/comedy. Matthew Rhys is the lead. Oh, yeah. Phenomenal, but he borrows from so many Stephen King movies. Stephen King movies. Okay. Including The Mist. All right. So, at one point, his character, he's like the, I guess, the town mayor, Mayor Tom, and he runs back in, because there's this fog creeping in. And along with the fog comes, like, all this, I don't know, bad news and bad luck and whatnot. Okay, good. All the bad juju. And he runs in, and he goes, "There's something in the fog." And I go, "That's from The Mist. There's something in The Mist." And so, yeah, a movie that's still being referenced today. That's great. But, yeah. That's not what we're here to talk about, although I'm sure we're going to get into some of that. But we're here to talk about the UFO/UAP phenomenon and the fact that you sent me, I guess, an early, advanced copy of your new book, The Watch Guard. Well, I know you're a reader, you know, and it has -- I've written -- it's an account of something that happened to me in 2011. So. Yeah. I wanted you to read that. Well, I appreciate you sending that my way. And I did read it. I've been furiously reading it. Not reading it in a furious manner, but trying to get through it before you got here, because I, you know, a lot of stuff going on, but I'm every night, you know, ripping through these pages. It's a really well-written book. And one of my favorite things about -- about this book, I think, other than your personal experience, because you are, by every metric, an experiencer. You know, to those wondering what your connection to this is and how you got into that, maybe we'll get into that a bit later, but you are an experiencer. And so a lot of this is through the lens of someone who is deeply affected by the phenomenon on a personal, very personal way. And it, to an extent, really messed with you. And still, to this day, I take it -- it does mess with you. Changed my life. Yeah. Changed everything about my life. Yes. I'm an unwilling participant, as so many people are, that I found out. You know, but in 2011, I had no idea that any of this stuff existed. You know, I liked UFOs as a kid, but I liked, you know, vampires, too. And one of the, you know, disappointments of being a kid was realizing that vampires, this is totally made up, and that UFOs were just, you know, totally impossible. You know, it just didn't make any sense how they could get here. It just, unfortunately, you had to sort of throw them into that drawer. And I did. I did for a long time, for years, until 2011. Yeah. Yeah. There's, like, a magic trick. Sometimes, you know, it's good to suspend your disbelief, to enjoy the magic. Mm-hmm. But there is, in your case, and just like any really good magic trick, it is the unwilling suspension of disbelief. You were forced to suspend that disbelief in this encounter. And I do want to get into that, but I also want to talk about every chapter of this book is. Okay, first of all, there's a lot of really deep philosophical takes on this stuff. You know, you reference everyone from Kiel and Vallée to people like Avi Loeb and the mainstream sort of UAP narrative and everything happened on the science side. Like, you've clearly done your homework with all this. And I didn't know this prior to meeting you. We met at Contact in the Desert. And when I started looking you up and, like, your connection to the phenomenon, I started realizing, like, oh, wow, you've been going to, like, MUFON symposiums. You've been, like, you've been really ingrained in this. You're not just in, forgive the term, but you're not just a celebrity who's interested in UFOs. You have a real history with this stuff. Yeah, recently. You know, I mean, when I first fell down the rabbit hole, I met Travis Walton at a convention near the LAX airport. I met Linda Moulton Howe. And she talked to me for, like, 45 minutes. You know, it was really interesting. But then I kind of backed away. I got into Stephen Bassett. Oh, yeah. He started having this monthly meeting where people would come in. I heard about that and started showing up and met Steve. I got roped into narrating a Stephen Greer documentary. Oh, I didn't know that. Called Serious. Yeah, it was his first documentary. And they came, and I had Greer come over to my house and show me photos of that Atacama humanoid, you know, in the kitchen. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And that was odd. It was just an interesting experience. But I narrated the documentary. Gary Nolan, that was the first appearance of Dr. Gary Nolan, who did the genetic analysis of the Atacama humanoid. I remember that documentary very well. Yeah, it was cool. I was happy to be a part of it, you know. Just try to find ways to spread the word. And these were relatively early days, you know. And then all this time, I've been making notes, you know. I guess it's a normal reaction. When my world was shattered, I just started writing things down. I had to write shit down to try to put things in a place where I could look at them and try to see how things might fit together and how any of this might comport with the world as I understood it. The real world. You know, the world that everyone tells you is real and the one that is strictly reinforced by the rules of the game here on Earth. So that was a conundrum. And those notes eventually turned into the outline of a book. And then I started to. Somebody invited me to contact in the desert three years ago. So that was. We met. I've been there twice before that. Right. And they asked me to talk, you know. I did a talk at the Hollywood Disclosure Alliance. Sure. A lot of great people there. Really, you know, terrific. Interested in the topic. Along the way, I became really good friends with Paul Hynek. He's great. I love that guy. He gave me those. Yeah, the Skip Gnomes. Yes. I blessed them. Well, they're protecting you, sir. Thank you. Yeah. I don't need it. Thank Paul. And he. We really hit it off and had a lot to. These conversations are what. Or how we. to learn how we put the pieces together, you know, and we're all sort of groping in the dark around these things. And somebody's like, Hey, come over here, feel this. What's, what the hell is that? And, uh, I've been happy to be involved with, uh, contact. I think it's a fantastic organization of, uh, of like-minded human beings. And, um, so that, so yeah, I guess I've been involved peripherally. Sure. I mean, more than most it's, uh, it's really quite interesting because I would say, you know, when you get people's takes on the phenomenon, normally from someone who's just approached the phenomenon recently, maybe due to revelations in the news or congressional hearings, there is a, uh, I don't know, there is a path that you can take to get people to take a step forward. And I think that's, I think that's a, I think you can see people take where, and I've, I'm victim to the same thing, but you start off with like, oh, it's flying saucers and the grays. And like, that's like the whole thing. Yeah. And then no, they're from Zeta. And then like this whole, right. And evolves. And over time, you know, when I meet somebody who's just gotten into the, uh, the topic and I don't consider myself to be, you know, an expert by any metric, but when I meet somebody who's really green around the gills, you know, for this, uh, I hear them say, oh, it's, it's, you know, they're, they speak with such certainty. And there's this Dunning-Kruger effect of like, you know, very high level of confidence. It's the grays and they're from Zeta. Um, we have to nail it down somehow. Yeah, exactly. And then I'm, I'm, I'm very excited because then I get to say, well, just wait till you get to the point where you understand there's like a whole non-physical thing that's, that's way more prevalent than anything physical. Right. In this topic. That's right. And, and they go, yeah, but that's just like technology that the grays have or something. Right. And I go, I'll see you in six months. And then down the road, they go, oh my God, you know, and they start reading Jacques Vallée and, and, uh, and Kiel and like all sorts of other. Yeah. Um, Jacques Vallée is kind of like the Isaac Newton of ufology. Right. How do you mean? Newton, uh, changed our understanding. He took, uh, the laws of motion and he sort of, you know, made, made the celestial and brought it bound to earth and connected the two with this, this really solid theory that, uh, that can be built upon and Newtonian mechanics still work, uh, for the most part, you know, you can, you can build an entire civilization off of Newtonian mechanics, but you know, Newton was also really interested in alchemy. He spent, he wrote, most of his writing was about, you know, solving the secret, uh, biblical text, and stuff like that. And he had in this, he was interested in this hidden divine order. I didn't know that. Underlying reality. That was Newton. He was fascinated. That was his whole mission in life was to uncover this hidden divine order, which Vallée also has helped us to understand the phenomenon in a new way by saying human consciousness is being impacted by, uh, what he called a non-human control system, right? Which I'm a fan. I, I take that as a baseline. And I say that Vallée is like Newton because these theories are 50 years old. John Keel, Vallée, these are fantastic, you know, um, connections. These are wonderful dots that have been strung together into a really interesting pearl necklace. That necklace needs to be, be shattered. Those pearls need to be rearranged into an Einsteinian understanding, right? There's another level to this phenomenon that is waiting to be cracked open. We're waiting for the Einstein interpretation. Einstein looked at Newton's stuff, looked at the clockwork, was also interested in a divine order. You know, he eventually said God doesn't play dice, but he took the speed of light and said, that's a fundamental, that's a fundamental aspect of the universe that can't be broken. In fact, space and time bend around the observer to create this, the different realities, depending on who the observer is and what speed they're traveling in. But the speed of light is this sort of fundamental envelope, which all of space and time revolves around. And the observer plays a fundamental part in how we see the universe. And I think that we're waiting for, uh, that kind of, um, architecture to be applied to the work of valet, the work of keel, uh, the idea that this, you know, keel thought that this intelligence was ancient, that there was a, not that, that the extraterrestrial hypothesis itself was the Trojan horse that the, uh, uh, the flying saucer sort of rode in on, you know, it's, it's sort of sneaking in under this guide, uh, of, uh, space beings of whatever we want it to be. Yeah. And, and, and also fairies or demons or ghosts and that there was this all encompassing intelligence. And that was sort of the, the secret according to keel. And I think both of those things are kind of true. Yeah. And they're based in some form on, you know, you touched this, uh, you touched on this in your book as well, but like Madame Blavatsky and the whole theosophy movement and, you know, everything is sort of derived there. And even like, you know, Jacques Vallée was famously, and so was, um, J. Allen Hynek, uh, Rosicrucian. Right. And so, you know, there is this tie to like hermeticism to these ancient orders of, you know, uh, science, if you will. Blavatsky and the theosophists, uh, were trying to connect with a higher intelligence through their spiritual practices. And that can, that could go as far as sort of the Rosicrucian or the golden dawn type of, um, technology, the magical technologies designed to open us up to a, basically a non-human in form of intelligence or a higher intelligence. And the theosophists call them the ascended masters, but they opened the door in the, you know, turn of the century. And then that crept up into the thirties and the forties, uh, the 19th century. And so, you know, there's a lot of, there's a lot of with Alice A. Bailey. They were, um, connecting with the, what they called the, uh, the Mahatmas, which were these hidden masters that lived in remotest Tibet and that they had these sort of celestial sort of abilities. And then that transformed into, um, hidden masters, not even living on earth or living in Venusian realms or, or in some higher plane of existence and that we could connect with them telepathically. Yeah. And that laid the groundwork for the contactee movement. Yeah. Venus, Jupiter, even like all the plus Saturn, they were coming from Mars, all these planets from our solar system impinging on us down here, telling us to, you know, clean up our act. They were basically here to save us from ourselves. And the theosophist really laid the groundwork for this whole idea that you can telepathically communicate with these non-human intelligences that looked suspiciously human. They were, you know, very, uh, they looked like, uh, you know, Scandinavian models getting off their spaceships in the desert, which is really strange. And I was trying to comport the fact that we do have really strong, um, accounts of these, not just humanoid, but humanesque beings that could pass for you and me. That could walk down the street and that these are the same beings that were reported by the contactees, which I don't put a lot of credence into. You don't until you, until you realize that, like, cause I'm the, I'm of the same ilk. I, I think where, okay, I don't know if we're actually dealing with tall blonde people in spandex. Right. Um, but then you'll speak to someone who look you dead in the eye, who's never been interested in this stuff in their life. Never blink, never bat an eye in this direction and they break down because they're telling you about a time where they were out of Chipotle and this eight foot tall couple stared and talked to him in his head and it changed everything for him. If you're ever thinking about picking up some area 52 merch, but you were waiting for the right moment. Now is that time we are currently running our back to college sale, 20% off all invisible college merch. Right in time for the fall. Get those comfy sweaters. We got sweaters, hoodies, cardigans, t-shirts, hats, notebooks, you name it. 20% off all invisible college merch while supplies last for a limited time. Go to area52.shop. 1942. Uh, the guy who had an experience, uh, with a, with a human ass, tall, blonde, longer hair. Yeah. Udo, Udo Wartena. Right. Yeah. Udo. In the Montana, Florida. - Foothills actually. - That's right. These accounts do exist, I believe them. I really do. I think that they're too varied. And when you start looking into this stuff, there's a wonderful account from just a couple of years ago that we could get into later that happened in Brazil that Pavel from Psychoactivo turned me on to. Oh, yes. Right. Yes, about the being that bled. Yeah. Yeah. Dr. Paul Parada. Yeah, they're doing tests on his blood now. Right. Well, they've done the test. Have they? Are the results back? Yeah, the results have come back. They are fascinating. Can you give us a brief rundown of what that story is? There was like an injured being, right, if I'm not mistaken. I'm a little foggy on. Right. So 2019, I think, is the year that the worst wildfires in Bolivia, all over South America, they're the worst they'd ever seen. I mean, the whole damn country was burning down. They lost millions of animals. Thousands of indigenous tribes. It was a disaster. The worst one that South America had had at the time. Unfortunately, there was an even worse fire in 2024. So this is the heart of our planet. This is the heart and lungs of our planet. The rainforest is now being, we kind of know now that that rainforest is a man-made thing, that some ancient civilization actually created the soil. Yeah. Which is the richest soil on the planet. That's a technology. That rainforest is an ancient technology that's been created. And now, you know, of course, we're burning it down. But I could see how non-human intelligence might be interested in that part of the planet. A ton of reports come out of Brazil. I mean, most of life is there. If you look at the number of living things on the planet, like most of it is there, right? It's the birthplace. Yeah. So it wasn't uncommon to see Europeans or, you know, people from everywhere. The French, a lot of people from the UK had come in. Firefighters, volunteers. You know, there was cholera was running rampant. The animals were all burning to death. They didn't have water. The water had been poisoned by the ashes that was falling into it. And so people were doing what they could. And Parada was, you know, like all of those guys would work in shifts. They'd work for like three days straight until they couldn't stand anymore. And then a truck would come and pick them up and take them away. So it was his last night there. He stepped outside to grab a smoke. It was about 11 o'clock at night. And he sees a white man coming up the trail in the middle of nowhere. The firemen are all deep into the forest. And one of the firefighters that had come to help. And as the guy gets closer, he's tall, he's got longer blonde hair, and he's wearing a skin tight spandex style outfit. As you would in the rainforest. As you would. And it had these stripes on them, silver, like Morse code, like a line and then a dot and then a line. And they were sort of all over his uniform. And he's thinking, Parada, he's thinking, ah, these Europeans, they've got the best firefighting gear. And he had a blanket on. And the blanket was a local blanket with like a print of a leopard on it or something. Parada remembers that. It's this guy wearing this fancy outfit with this Bolivian, you know, popular at the time, tiger print blanket around his shoulders. And he came up and Parada's like, how can I help you? And he says, I've been, I've been injured. And he says, oh, you know, come inside. Take a look at it. And they walk into this little shack where, which was repurposed as his first aid kit. He's like, have a seat. Tell me what's going on. And the guy pulls down his uniform and he pulls his arm out and he's got a gash on his arm that goes from like here to here, bleeding like crazy. And the first thing Parada noticed was that none of the blood was on his uniform. That somehow his arm was bleeding fiercely, but none of the blood was on his uniform, which was spotless. And, um, and he's like, oh man, how did, how did you do that to yourself? And the guy looked at him and in Parada's mind, he hears the words, it was a baby Puma and Parada freezes. And he's like, did that guy, did that guy just talk to me in my mind? And the guy puts a hand on his shoulder and goes, calm down. Everything's going to be okay. In his mind. And Parada just loses it. And he's like thinking, how do I get out of here? This guy's obviously, I don't know what he is, but I need to get the hell out of here. There's nobody's around. He's in the middle of nowhere. And, uh, he eventually, the guy just says, listen, I, you know, so Parada goes over to the first aid kit and he stitches this guy's arm up. And as he's stitching his arm up, he realizes the guy's got no body hair, not anywhere. And he looks at his face and he's not clean shaven. He doesn't have hair on his face. And he does that. I think it takes him 40 minutes or something like a long time. Uh, but he finally gets it done. He gives him a little baggie. He's like, listen, you need to take care of this, take these pills, but ghost, there's another place that can help you way better than I can. He goes out, go somewhere else. And the guy goes, uh, the, the, uh, human-esque, uh, goes, um, don't be afraid of what you're going to see next. And Parada's like, okay. And he looks around and he grabs a pair of medical scissors and he puts them in his, up his sleeve. And he goes, okay. And the, and the guy opens the door and right outside the shack is a UFO. And the guy opens the door and he grabs a pair of medical scissors and he puts them in his, up his sleeve. And he goes, okay. He hadn't told the guy what his name was. And Parada ran back in there, slammed the door and, uh, stayed in there all night, terrified that they were going to come back and take him away or, you know, that, uh, they were going to kidnap him and take him to another planet or, I mean, he was losing his mind. He kept this story to himself for a long time, but they couldn't sleep at night. And, uh, he started having these dreams and in the dreams, he was in a white room. And in the white room was our guy and he was being operated on and he had these little dudes were there and he keeps having these dreams and he's freaking out and he tells his wife, his wife's like, you're losing your mind. He does an interview with somebody, I think from Argentina, uh, and that gets picked up and goes all around South America. His boss fires him, loses his job. Uh, his wife is, they have a baby on them. They have a baby on the way or a second baby on the way. And, uh, his wife's like, what the hell are you doing? You know? And, and he really, it was sort of the dark night of the soul for Parada. He couldn't live with it and he couldn't live without it. So he started, um, going, he started reaching out. He started telling his story and JJ, the Spanish researcher, um, I'm going to forget his last name, but his, his name is JJ. Um, he's a famous guy. He's like the Jacques Vallee of Spain. He reached out and he said, I'm flying over there. I want you to show me everything. Um, and so he does. And he, the Parada takes him to the shack. He's there with his guys. He tells him the whole story. And then Parada says, you know, I still got those, uh, cotton balls. JJ said, i've got the means to have this stuff tested so we gave him some of the blood not all of it and they had it tested over about six months and this was only like in 2024 or something that they finally got this stuff tested and um it uh turns out that it's the dna is completely human but the it's female the uh chromosomes chromosomes there are no male chromosomes in the in the in the blood so this somehow they were genetically engineered to be female even though this was clearly a a masculine muscular uh guy without any facial hair hmm well Was there anything else that was peculiar about the blood? Yeah. It was immortal. The blood cells on the gauze didn't decay. They didn't turn black. They didn't get crusty the way blood did. They were fresh. They were fresh as the day. Still? They're still as fresh as the day as they came out of, as he found them on that day. No way. Yeah. Very interesting. And they say maybe there's some sort of nanotechnology in there or some sort of bio- Preservative. Preservative. Some sort of genetic anomaly that they've engineered to sort of make this blood immortal. Now, bacteria is immortal. Single-celled organisms, they've been around forever. They divide and divide and divide. They sort of have no, they don't carry information so that they've been immortal on the planet forever. And maybe they're able to use something like that and blend them together. I have no idea. But if their blood is immortal, they're probably immortal. Yeah, that's the next conclusion. Which means that the same beings that are interacting with us today could have been the same beings that have been interacting with us. With us. Yeah. For thousands of years. It could be Ashtar right there. Ashtar. That is such a remarkable story and so recent. Because, I mean, when was the last time you'd heard about flying saucers with a tall, blonde Swedish guy? It wasn't prior to 1975. Like, I mean. Yeah. And that was a setup. That guy that came out of the forest and said, I've got a gash on my arm. I think so, too. Yeah. That was my next conclusion. Like, this was a donation. That's right. Clearly. This was a donation. A baby puma. What? Yeah. That's the best you can come up with? Parada had, JJ had several labs test the blood. And all of that, and somehow all of that has sort of gotten brushed under the rug. Parada stopped coming out. He stopped talking. And Pavel, our friend Pavel, says that the Queen of England may have gotten, the Queen of Spain may have gotten involved somehow. Weird. I'll have to speak to Pavel about it. Yeah, I really should. He's looked into, he's done some interesting research, and he did the translations of the interview. That's how I found the case. Yes. And I write about it in the book because I think it's the most fascinating case and maybe the most consequential case. Clearly with a donation. Yeah. And I think it's a very interesting situation. To have come about. And then, you know, that goes on. We can get into that another time. But the experiences that Parada had on the craft with these beings, he actually, he was freaking out. They were in that white room. He said, listen, this has got to end. My life is, you know. Like his dreams. Yeah. I know this isn't a dream. I'm waking up with bruises on me. Oh, wow. I wake up with stuff, you know. I know what you guys are doing. And you got to stop. Because my life has fallen apart. And they said, give us three days. They said, come with us. We're going to work with you for three days. And then we'll let you go. And we'll never, we'll never bother you again. And he, you know, he kind of didn't really have a choice. And he did. So he went on to the craft or an underground. Wherever. Wherever the hell he went. For three days. For three days. And he swears by this. Absolutely. Oh, my God. Yeah. Oh. And the stuff that they talk about is rather shocking. I have to look into this case a little more. That's very interesting. Rather amazing. Well, go give, go give Pavel a follow if you're listening. I mean, he's got a lot of interesting stuff that he covers as well. Psychoactivo. Yeah. Psychoactivo. Right. Thank you. Some of the cases that are coming out of South America and worldwide are really worthy of studying. This is a worldwide phenomenon. Yeah. And we're obviously. It feels to me that we're entering a new phase, not only in our own sort of awakening, but in, in the interactions, you know, we're. I see. We are now being sort of, we're gradually. We've leveled up. We've leveled up. Thank you. Wow. Very interesting case. I mean, and no shortage of interesting cases are covered in this book. I can tell you're a fan of Preston Dennett as am I. Yeah. Because you include these obscure. Yeah. Cases. And this one, maybe not so obscure, but there are some very obscure ones that I do want to like bring up because I'm every chapter. I was delighted to learn about a new encounter. And these are like, not just, oh, I saw a triangle at which I'm not discounting that that's important. That's obviously life changing. But a few that stuck out to me was, was a few that stuck out to me were Joseph Wanderko from Vienna, Austria, 1955. So he, this man was like riding his bike, sees these lights coming down and he's thinking, oh, there's a plane or something. Somebody's crashing. You know, the, the war had ended maybe a decade before. That's yeah. Yeah. And, uh, and then Austria, it was in Austria. He was a German Austrian. The Europe was in tatters, you know, um, the, uh, social unrest was pretty high and Germany Joseph was a young man, I think he was 27 years old, jobless, pissed off, really one of those kind of angry, you know, socialists, right, at the world. And he was driving through a forest path and he used to spend his days riding around on his moped. Oh, his moped, that's right. Because he's really just, you know, probably trying to tame the demons in his mind. You know, he was driving around and he sees a glint in the forest. And so he leaves the path and he drives over and there's this 30-foot silver disc sitting in a clearing in the middle of the forest. And the door was open and the ramp was down. And it was like a 12-foot ramp and this six-foot wide door. And Joseph, for whatever reason, drives his moped right up the ramp and into the craft where these six beings are waiting for him there. Now, he doesn't say this, but I wouldn't be surprised. If they didn't sort of telepathically sort of coax him onto that craft, I don't know. Maybe he just got a bug. Yeah, what would compel you to do this? But then again, we don't know. Maybe that's just a quirk that Joseph has. Maybe. And these beings were childlike. They were. Yeah, they looked like children. Yeah, not big heads, not grays, you know. They basically looked like 10-year-old children, really, you know. They had blonde hair. They had this weird silken sort of inflated. Like rough as a collar. They had mittens on, which were, you know, sort of these gloves, but with fingerless gloves. And they started talking to him in perfect Austrian-German. And he's like, how the hell did you guys learn? Where are you guys from? And they said, we have come from the highest peaks of Cassiopeia. And then he realized, oh, my God, like these are like space people. Yeah. So he's like, how do you guys know German? And he's like, we learned it. And then he starts telling them all about. He's like, oh, my God, look at you. You've obviously like got some shit figured out. Are you here to help us? Are you here to help, you know, save Europe? Yeah, he starts telling them about Hitler, about the war. Right, right. And then they're like, no, we didn't come here to interfere in any way in your terrestrial matters. We just came here to. To observe, you know, and check it out. But they were like, tell me about this machine you're driving. It's really interesting. How does it work? So they got Joseph to describe the basics of a combustion engine to these space people. And Joseph says, like, the little cabin he was in, there was no instrumentation. He couldn't see any chairs. It was just empty in there. But it was filling up with the smell of, like, warm oil from his motorbike. And he was like, you know, that's what I'm talking about. He was like, you know, that's what I'm talking about. And he's like, you know, that's what I'm talking about. And Joseph started, you know, raging about this state of the world and how the industrialists were taking over. And the poor were, you know, living, the rich were living off the backs of these poor people. And they said, yeah, but you must know yourself how to fix these matters. And if you want to start, you know, you know that a revolution can be started and you can change all of that. But you got to do it yourself. And then as he was pleading with them, as Joseph tells it, the beings started to cry. They started to weep with like empathy for his rage, his socialist rage at the world. And then Joseph got really embarrassed while seeing these little space beings crying for him in this little cabin. And he got really uncomfortable and he says, okay, well, I should probably leave. I should probably go. And he bowed and they bowed and he took his moped and drove down the ramp and left. And then regretted it for the rest of his life. Kicked himself. Like, why didn't I leave? You know, why did I, why did I start, you know, telling these folks to fix my planet? This is like the first thing out of my mouth. Oh, you're a space fish. And make them cry. Yeah. And then they start weeping. Oh, no. That is. At the sorry state of who he was and where he was and life on earth and the whole thing is fascinating to me, you know, that they'd have these interactions. And I, and I think that in a lot of ways, a lot of the, the, the beings that don't, that aren't here for, you know, other purposes do come here to experience, you know, to check us out, to check out life on earth. Yeah. Little visitors. Little tourists, almost. As if, if, if we could take a tour of Rome. Yeah. You know, like I would do it in a heartbeat. I know it would be the greatest tour in the world just to walk around, just to, just to see how somebody lived their life for one day. That's true. And, and walk the streets, you know, of, of Rome or Greece, you know, and go see a play in the amphitheater. It's like, that would be nuts. Like some beings have that ability. I'm sure. They can do that. Yeah. That's probably, you know, where that big wave in the mid sixties and seventies was like, that's, you know, you mentioned this in your book as well, but like, there are these two types of beings. There are the beings that the inconsequential sort of passerbys. Yeah. And then, yeah, the transients as you call them. And then the other ones who, you know, are a little bit more intrinsically linked to us. I think so. For one agenda or another, whether it's our benefit or theirs, I don't know. But yeah, we don't know. Yeah. But it seems to be that, um, we have so many hundreds of different species or accounts or descriptions throughout decades. Thousands maybe. Yeah. And yet the, the guys that showed up around when the abduction era started, the, the, the great. Now there's a ton of different kinds of gray aliens out there, which gets confusing for people. Cause when you say a gray, we're not really sure. We don't have a photograph. So we can't really tell what, which gray they're talking about. Genderless. Are they naked or they have a suit? What color suit are they tall? They short, big head, small head, lips, no lips. And the same is true for the humanesque guys. There's not just tall, blonde, you know, eight foot tall, Calvin Klein model types. No. There's these other types as well. There's, um. The ones with Joe Simonton. Right. Who gave him the, you know, who wanted the pail of water. He had the pancakes. They were like Italian race car drivers. He put it in turtleneck. You know, with like all of colored skin and like. Yes. Some have dark skin. Some have longer noses. Yeah. Um, I want to count. I can't remember who, but they, the, the humanesque types were tall and they had giant chins. Right. They were really skinny with these giant chins. Some native looking as well. Like more, um, yeah. And then there's other blonde humanesque, but shorter, not, not seven or eight feet tall. Um, with, uh, smaller eyes. A little bit. Oriental. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Higher foreheads. Yep. Uh, Jesse Rostenberg saw them. Yeah. And, uh, they also. Yeah, with the, with the fishbowl on their head. Right, right. And, uh, and, uh, this, uh, truck driver, I think from Argentina was abducted by them for. Yes. In the seventies. Yes. There was multiple, there was like three of them that took him and they, they experimented on him. Yeah. It was quite horrific. Yeah. Yeah. And it sparked a whole nationwide debate. Yeah. Whether we were being surveilled by space beings. Yeah. So there's different types of humanesque, there's different types or species. I don't know what to call them of gray. Yeah. There's different types of praying mantis. Yeah. You know, there's, um, they've been reported since the fifties. I think even Leonard Stringfield. That's right. Some, some, some of these praying mantis types, but there's like white praying mantises. There's, uh, shorter praying mantises. There's like the really tall ones that are super skinny. There's ones that look more like insects. And others that look more like praying mantis as well. Like there's like the, like the insectalins or, um, you know, and they always, those, those ones are really interesting to me because, you know, there is a seeming hierarchy to this, even though it might only be perceivably in some cases, the case, I don't think it's across the board, but it seems like there is this hierarchy where at least a portion of these graves seem to be biosynthetic. So, um, I think that's, that's a good point. I think that's a good point. toilet they're you know for all intense purposes even matt brown talks about the idea of them being made to purpose or built to spec right uh and i would assume the technology which is which are these guys they're also a technology and i think they're also built to spec depending on the mission using our own genetics yeah to build them and and what i always find interesting is like but in whose image are they built do you know what i mean because there has to be like that is that a random choice that everyone's agreed on right that like oh this is the least frightening thing that we could use like because that doesn't seem fitting it do we factor into their decision to create grays that look the way they do or are they just utilitarian and yeah the way they do because because there's a reason the genetics for them for their own yeah or are they based off something are they built in the likeness right of some other being that turned out to be you know maybe a optimal being for this planet i don't know there's an interesting uh aaron schultz was abducted several times in the 90s by gray greenish gray aliens that looked just like the grays but they said their skin was slightly greener and he said that they told him that they were us from the future yeah i've heard that a few times are we you know so are they creating these grays because that's in our image yeah in our image thank you yeah i mean you know dr michael masters has a whole literal dissertation on that like he he wrote his thesis on you know the cranial morphology of humans into uh these grays and and it makes sense and that might happen on several different planets you know i like the theory that they're from red dwarfs or a system with a red dwarf there's a very long life and most of the red doors we know you know they're the sun is too volatile for life but that might not be true in every case and there's trillions of suns out there so maybe that gray morphology is something that all humanoid beings start to develop into as the sun dies over millions of years and maybe as you go underground you know also your your eyes get larger and the underground hypothesis is also a good one yeah it's very interesting to to look at their morphology specifically and then try to reverse engineer from a paleontology standpoint or anthropology standpoint was there a plethora of alien planets where insects became the dominant intelligent life form and that and those praying mantises really are insects well yeah and and steven bassett mentions this as well which i thought was interesting because if you look at lizards the reptilians you look at the mantids you look at the nordics what do they all have in common you can find them all on earth right are we all sharing dna is this a cosmic zoo that we're all this dna pool that we're all pulling from are we all just part of the same family yeah i mean they are living here we do see little versions of all of these you know it might turn out that on these alien planets spread out across galaxies millions billions trillions of life-giving worlds they all share the same and we're sharing basic yeah genetics i would that's my running theory for everything is that these are all just trillions of petri dishes uh that are at different stages of evolution and the universe is using the same building blocks all over the place and why not yeah i mean if you were an advanced species and you've gotten through the trials of wanting to wage war and all of that you've gotten past all that and now you're at the point of your existence where you want to go out and spread life and and maintain and nurture life throughout the universe um you first of all you wouldn't uh take over a planet that's dead and live underground that seems useless you would go to a green nice sort of planet with water or whatever the conditions are but you would find quickly that those conditions don't actually suit you you would die from something the nitrogen levels the radiation something's off and so you would still have to live in a suit and so instead let's take the native species that lives here let's let's genetically modify it yeah with our dna let's bring some stuff from this planet these little cephalopods change them a bit put them in this ocean yeah take that do this and do that everywhere you could do that but then at the same time i wouldn't do it i wouldn't waste my time if i'm this really intelligent being right i would have ai do it exactly and so i would put these van neumann probes in the oceans and and let them figure it out and you know maybe there's a tripwire system there eventually when these things ascend to a higher consciousness or when they blow themselves up then then you know we send in the reinforcements and we're like hey calm down and you could do some serious uh terraforming yes exactly or panspermia or right like like controlled panspermia yeah yeah and all that might be going on but and at the same time this biosis that's happening all over the universe has the same non-local essence that a morphogenetic field to use rupert sheldrake's hypothesis is a non-local impulse that writes itself into being everywhere and so all of the different conditions on different planets would change the nature of the universe and it would change the nature of the universe that morph that chemical soup in in slightly different ways i see but the biosis the impulse the life the carbon you know we're one our scientists are wondering you know maybe silicone maybe but that would i would count that as a silicon-based life form maybe a shadow biosphere that may exist alongside we don't know how many overlapping biosis spheres there are but we do know that this one appears to be shaping the universe in a way that we don't know how many of them are but we do know that this one appears to be shaping the universe in a way that we don't know how many of them are but we do know that this one appears to be shaping the universe in a way that we don't know how many of them are but we do know that this one appears to be shaping the universe in a way that we don't know how many of them are but we do know that this one appears to be shaping the universe appears to be sharing the same basic building blocks. That's why the abduction phenomenon, that's why we can crossbreed. That's why these creatures look an awful lot like they have Earth analogies. Yeah, I mean, they're bipedal, frontward-facing eyes. They have digits on their hands. These are all very specific traits. In other words, we're not starting from scratch. And scientists on our planet right now, and why not, why wouldn't we think this, have started that somehow life began as this freak accident, lucky lightning bolt hits a warm pond. Somehow this chemical soup springs into life and starts evolving using natural selection, the conditions of our planet, as we're changing the conditions. And then in this feedback loop, the planet freezes over, then the planet warms up, and this process begins. And it's been going on for 4.5 billion years. But that same process could be going on in all of these different planets together, sharing the morph, in other words, an evolutionary sort of, you know, a new evolutionary level is reached on one planet. You can, that new way of putting life together non-locally spreads to all the other planets. Yeah, like the five-minute mile or whatever that was. Right, exactly. You know, when one person does it, all of a sudden everybody can do it. And we could extrapolate that to include the universe. That's a very interesting hypothesis. And, you know, why not? You can go ahead, you can grab it. I mean, there seems to be something. One interesting part of your book was a chapter based on the name of the book, The Watch Guard. Mm-hmm. And it was Donald, I'm going to say this wrong, Shawcross in Slanesville, West Virginia, 1982. Yeah. A wonderful encounter with a all-knowing sort of creature that claims to be almost like a protector of this planet, or perhaps this AI system that I spoke of, or something that is keeping an eye. Can you tell us a little bit about that and why you chose that? And why you chose that for the title of the book? Shawcross is a really interesting case. And I stumbled across these things looking through old Flying Saucer reviews. And we have that in common. There's nothing better than an old UFO magazine. And have you seen the ones from Sweden? And, yeah, those are fantastic. Stories Lost is a great YouTube channel that they do all the time. Unfamiliar. Unfamiliar, yeah. They do some really artistic, wonderful work in recreating some of these lost cases that are dug up in these old UFO magazines from Sweden, from Norway, from Denmark, you know, from all over the UK, really. But Shawcross is, I think, probably found that through Preston Dennett, who is the goat, as far as a xenologist goes. Yeah. He's a full-on, I'm a moonlight xenologist. He's a full-on, tenured xenologist. Yeah, I've got a stack of his books right there. You've been at it for so many years. And really, if anyone is interested in sort of trying to wrap their mind around the phenomenon, And it has to start with the actual accounts that have been going on for decades that you can find through people like Preston, through people, the old UFO journals and all the researchers out there. They're looking for where the rubber hits the road because that's where we're going to find answers, in my opinion, or at least dots that we can start to put together and see where that takes us. So Shawcross, he was a night shift guy and he was four o'clock in the morning getting off. I think he was working at a hospital or something. And he lived in a trailer home in Virginia in the middle of nowhere. And he has a wife and a kid. And he comes home, he opens the door and his cats try to run out past him right away. They're like tearing at the screen door. He's like, whoa, what's going on? So he looks outside. He figures maybe there's an animal out there. And he sees what looks like a plane going down in the field behind his house. So he wakes up his wife. He says, call the cops. There's going to be a plane crash. And he runs outside. He jumps in his car and there's an old dirt road behind the field. He drives back there. His car dies. He doesn't think much of it. He gets out with his flashlight and he starts walking through the weeds with his flashlight. And he comes across a pair of silver boots. And he puts his flashlight up. And he thinks it's the pilot of the airplane that just crashed. There's no pilot. It's this guy with a silver suit on. He's got a staff in his arms, you know, like a four foot long staff he's holding. He's got a helmet on. He can't really see his eyes. And he's like, are you okay? Who the hell are you? And the guy starts communicating telepathically in Donald's mind. Yeah, instantly. Instantly blew his mind. And he's like, and he realizes this is a, you know, that's a flying saucer. And this is a dude from space. It's a space being. And he goes, why haven't you made yourself known to the world? And the guy says, we are known. And he's like, well, what are you doing here? He says, I'm the watch guard. Yeah. And he's like, what do you, what do you, um, they start having this telepathic conversation where this space being says that we're not taking care of our nuclear waste properly, that we're screwing up the planet, that there's, we can do this much better. And then he's like, and I'll, I can show you how to do this kind of stuff. And then he starts telling Donald about the hidden technologies that are hidden in the underneath. He starts telling him about the pyramids. They have this long conversation. And I listed in the, uh, a version of it in the book, because it's rare that you get these sort of like in-depth conversations with these space people. They're usually pretty coy. And this guy is too, but it changed Donald's life. You know, as he's talking to this space being, he suddenly realizes that his feet are not touching the ground. And he starts to panic because he's been floating along with this guy toward the craft, which was like a little purple light off of the distance when he stopped parked his car. And now it's sort of like a few feet away and it's a classic flying saucer with a big inner tube around the side. And it's got lights that are spinning around and it's got a purple light coming off of it. Donald's pissing himself. He's thinking this, this is really bad because now this, the door starts opening. You know, and he's like, this guy's going to take me on board the craft and I'm going to disappear and never come back. Um, but his feet touch the ground and the guy starts walking up the ramp alone and he turns around and he goes, I'll be back. And he gets in the craft and the door closes, the craft lifts up and it takes off across the mountains. And by the time he got back to his, his place, the cops had shown up. So he tells them the whole story. He's burnt the cop. They interviewed the cop and the cop said, yeah, one half of his face. His hand and his face from that purple light that had come out of the, uh, the craft, whatever that was close to counter the second kind. They didn't, uh, they didn't find any radiation on Donald, although he was, he was burnt and the, um, he, uh, the cops of course said, you know, I don't know. The guy was obviously freaked out when I showed up, but there was nothing in the field and I don't know this guy. I mean, you know, he, he could be some nut, but, uh, that. Experience sent Donald changed his life, you know, as, as it does with so many, so many people, it changes. It's just, everything just turned upside down for him from that moment on. Um, what was it? Gray Barker, I think came out and interviewed him and, uh, said, this is the most credible encounter case that I've come across. A guy from New York came down and gave him a full lie detector test, which he passed with flying colors. The, the, uh, New York guy said, well, he believes. You know, whatever happened, he, he really believes it. And, uh, and then Donald start got obsessed with the pyramids and the Sphinx and trying to crack that mystery for, for the rest of his life. You know, what, what's in there. And, uh, I call it and the, the, uh, so I basically, I called the book, the watch guard, because I think that that's a part of what's going on. You know, I think that these, this, uh. Uh, small group, the, this, this one, one group of humanesque, this one group of praying mantis, um, we don't know much about the reptiles, but they keep showing up. And then the grays are this confederation that is here as a kind of, uh, a watch guard. I think that they are guarding the gates to the cosmos. I think that there's two, uh. Uh, factions of watch guards. I think that's the alien faction. And then the human faction is also hiding the craft, hiding the bodies, rushing away the evidence, the trail that leads to them. And they're in cahoots. And it's possible. It's possible. In fact, the more I look into this, the more I can't see how it cannot be possible. That there is an. Uh, intersection of human and alien forces that are working together in some capacity, uh, to manage humanity's access to technologies that are literally otherworldly and that have the power, um, to destroy worlds, worlds. Um, and also, uh, with that, uh, included in that power is the power to traverse the galaxy, to go anywhere, to do anything. And, um, you know, we just don't quite have our shit together enough to be able to handle that kind of stuff. The prime directive. And there's, there's a little bit of a, of a prime directive going on here. There has to be. I always, I always feel like, you know, cause when you, you look at Star Trek and you go, the prime directive was. Okay. We don't interfere with planets that don't have warp drive. That's always been the case. And when they develop warp drive, then it's like, welcome to the family. And if you consider nukes being warp drive, which I don't. Right. Um, you know, I think that's when we would have had contact, but the more I. Right. The more that I look at this stuff, the more that I realized that the prime directive is don't interfere until they get rid of the nukes. Yeah. Like that for me seems like the threshold of. Finally, now you get it. What have they been telling us for the past hundred years? Get rid of your nukes. What are you doing? Right. Don't play with this stuff. You know, don't play with this energy. Don't play with this, that this is bad. You're going to kill yourselves. You're going to kill, but it's happened before. It'll happen again. Like all these warnings point to the prime directive being, we don't interfere limited in a limited capacity, at least until they get rid of the nukes. And then you look at JFK trying to do that. In some capacity right before he was assassinated. Yeah. Um, and that's what Shaw crossed that was told by the watch guard. You know, you don't know how to handle, you're not doing it right. You don't know how to handle that stuff. The second we get rid of those is probably when we get the landings. The watch guard did say we use nuclear power, but we use it, you know, we know how to use it. Yeah. Not to kill people with, yeah. Get rid of the nukes. We know how to properly, uh, you know, manage these kind of incredibly powerful technologies. And I think that nuclear power is the entry. Exam to a whole new level of, um, sub quantum kinetics as Paul LaViolette calls it, that will, that will make, uh, the atom bomb look like a water balloon at a 4th of July. Yeah. You know what I mean? We're talking, there's a guy named Chuck and off, um, a Russian, uh, scientist who studied plasma physics and he got really into ball lightning and bought any and create. It in the lab. And he says chicken off and you can go to chicken off energy, you know, so just Google a ball light. Hopes and Fears, Chukhanov. And he has this theory that ball lightning is a source of unlimited energy, that it's a 2D macroscopic quantum object, that it has a 2D center and a three-dimensional layer of electrons around the shell. And those electrons are constantly exchanging energy with the quantum vacuum. And then you can use that energy as an unlimited energy supply, but you can also turn it into a weapon, which is something he calls a quantum photon bomb. Sounds lovely. Millions of times more powerful than an atom bomb, because it taps into the vacuum sort of non-local energy. And he said, you can make this in your garage. The high-power microwave, a crystal, an electron gun, some other stuff. And this might be the keys to the kingdom. But I mean, you know, when you say that, it makes me kind of thankful that there are these watchguards on both the human and the non-human side. I feel like these are necessary. You know, because if we're working, it's either one of two options. If we are working with a non-human component here to, I don't know, to gatekeep disclosure in some capacity, then it's either one of two things. Either one, there's like a malevolence here, and it's like a control system, and they want to do it for their own benefit, their own agenda. Right. And they have a, you know, they have an agreement. They have an agreement with the evil government, and there's, that's one side. And the other side is, no, you'll kill yourselves and probably kill more things that you can't even see. You're hurting worlds that exist within worlds that you can't even fathom by splitting an atom. You have no idea what you're doing. Yeah. And we need to babysit you, and we need a group of humans to understand this. And, hey, here, we'll give you some tech to help you contain it, because, yeah, you guys are, you're not headed in the right direction. Can't be any other way. Yeah. Planets are more valuable than people. Sure. This is a universe that is absolutely chock full of both. So we have life at all levels of existence, but the planets themselves are jewels of the universe. So protecting those planets would be the negentropic thing to do. You know, it would be the thing that. There's nothing else. Right. Like, why wouldn't you do that? Yeah. Why wouldn't you do that? And that, I guess that gets into another conversation, which is the thing that I, one of my biases or preconceptions was that there were good aliens and bad aliens. But as you progress up the level of technology. You were the bad aliens. Yeah. That's exactly right. Yeah. There's. They're all, there's varying degrees of good and bad. I mean, whatever you want to put on a spectrum, if you want to do something like that, it's just, you zoom out far enough and there is no good or bad, but we're clearly having a negative effect here. Yeah. And, and, uh, and that's okay. Yeah. You know, that's, we're right where we're supposed to be. I agree. And we're supposed to be sort of waking up to this, you know, wider cosmos. It's a freedom. The cosmos recognizing what kind of universe we live in is a freedom. It's a, it's a, you could call it a God-given, uh, freedom. And, and we have the right to understand the universe we live in. And if we don't understand the universe we live in, then we're kind of like bulls in an invisible China shop. We're smashing into shit that we don't even know exists. So that this is, this is part of the process. Part of the process of what you call the ontocalypse. I love that word. Ontocalypse. Yeah. It's not my word, but I love the word. Um, yeah, it's, uh, there's gentle, you know, ontocalypses. Like what we're doing now. Right. And, and then there's not so, uh, not so gentle. You know, you said something in this book, which I, which I love a little quote here. Uh, perhaps the greatest mystery in modern history is that of alien visitation. The second greatest mystery is why we are ignoring the greatest mystery. I love that. I love that. Um, because it is true. It sounds insane. Yeah. Yeah, it does. To, to, to, to have this pot of gold be presented in front of you being like, Hey, this is, this is it. This is the, uh, the arc of the covenant. This is the, the, the Holy grail. Endless wonders. Yeah. You have it all. Yeah. All. And then for us not to even want to look at it. Right. What's going on there. And then also trying to recreate it elsewhere. Right. It's like, Hey, it's right here. Gil Levin discovered evidence of life on Mars in the seventies with the two Viking rovers or the landers, you know, and, and both landers, they did five labeled release experiments on two locations. They both came up positive every single time they ran the look, they ran the experiment several different ways and they all came back positive for microbial. Now, NASA, for whatever reason, decided not to, um, to go with that finding, you know, they said, well, it must, there must be some other explanation and Gil Levin spent the rest of his life trying to disprove his own theory saying, okay, well, what is the other explanation? And he ran all the different chemicals and all the different experiments and all the different ways that they may have gotten some sort of false positive. Out of the fact that there is microbial life on Mars right now, as we speak, I mean, that's the evidence, you know, the next step would be to send another over there and do some more experiments and, and see if you could prove or disprove that idea. But we haven't done that yet. We have not sent another experiment. We spent a lot of money going back to Mars. Not one of them. I said, yeah, let's follow up on that crazy Gil Levin experiment. Not one of them. And that tells me that there is, uh, resistance to the idea that even there might be life on one other planet. Yeah. It makes no sense that you would not go back. I mean, panspermia, you know, that doesn't even prove that there's life in the, in the galaxy. No, but it just, it gives us hope. It gives us. Yeah. It's the possibility. It's one more dot. Yeah. But we haven't even made that dot. So when people come and they say disclosure is coming next week, ain't no fucking way. It's coming next week. We can't even admit that there's microbes on Mars right now. Yeah. Yeah. It's going to be microbes on Mars. Then it'll be structures on Mars. And then from there it'll be, you know, you keep it away from earth a little bit and then eventually bring it home. But like, even to, to the NASA point, like, I find it still strange that we barely have photos of the earth. Right. I don't even know why that is. Like, like I'm always like, wait, what? They're like, no, it's a composite. You're like, what do you mean? It's a composite. Right. Well, cause like the satellites are not far enough out to take a photo of the earth. So we have to like compose them. And I'm like, okay, how many things have we sent out of orbit into deep space? Oh, quite a few. You didn't think you might want to strap one camera, one GoPro, one anything, and just take a, take a selfie. Artemis. Yeah. You know, where's all the footage from Artemis? Yeah. Artemis too. Well, they took a lot of moon photos, a ton of moon photos. There's a lot of moon photos that I didn't see. I looked at the Artemis photos. Yeah. These are really crappy. Yeah. There's a lot of, the phone ones are pretty good actually. The ones from the iPhone. The guy from the iPhone is the better photos that. Yeah. Yeah. That was an incredible mission when you, when you look at that and you're like, oh my God. Slingshotting around the moon. Yeah. I mean, it was amazing. Yeah. You know, but where, where's the data? Yeah. There's a, there does seem to be like stuff that I don't know for what reason, but they don't want to take photos of. Clementine. Yeah. You know, they did that in the nineties. Yeah. The, the, I mean the blue Pearl was, you know, how old is that photo? And that's like, It's still to this day, like over 50 years and maybe the best photo we have. Yeah. Blue marble. The blue marble. That's right. Yeah. Um, and you know, I don't know. I don't know what the reasoning there is. I do find it suspicious for some reason. I don't know what the reason is, but like part of me goes to, well, maybe there's shit around our planet that's hanging out. Right. And that they're just like, that's going to be a lot of airbrushing. We don't want to do that. Like. Absolutely. That might be a, that might be it, but, um. They don't want people to be thinking. They don't want people to be thinking in that direction. Yeah. I don't want to encourage that kind of, those, those kind of, uh, inquiries. Yeah. Not yet. That's not part of the plan. It's not part of the plan because once you make that leap, then you discover that there is this other technological society, more than one, but at least one that's been building a bridge of their own technology to earth. And we've been building our own technology and we're sort of, and, and, and, and, and there's a gap there that we can then bridge with our technology to reach their technology, which would be a complete transformation of the way we. Organize and run this planet, you know, and not just energy, but but in all areas of, you know, what I like to call the human control system and the human control system is deeply embedded in this, you know, in our in our system is, you know, it starts with school. It's it's media. It's the government. It's the military. And the the heart of the human control system is language. Language is the baseline operating system for all of the other control systems. It's the first thing we learn. It's the first thing that was downloaded into our heads. And it's the bridge that we use. And the only bridge we use to communicate with each other is symbolic. We won't have any other way of reaching. Into my head and pulling out thoughts and delivering them to you. It's through this language. And that's been crafted as a control system that can be superseded and outgrown. Of course. Yeah, it's it's it's the best modality that we have. Right. For communicating other than perhaps like memes and like videos and all that's part of the language. You can speak architecture. You can speak with dancing. I see. But it's all symbols. Yeah. Yeah. And yeah, it all represents things. Right. It's not the thing. Exactly. And the thing itself would be the thought forms would be the literal experience. So telepathy is not like mental radio. No, it's listening. It's emotion. It's feeling and experience. Experience. Yeah. Like if you went to a concert and you saw this amazing concert and it was a great moment there and, you know, you met someone you hadn't seen in years and you wanted to share that with me. You could download that experience with all his thoughts and feelings and a 360 degree, not just your point of view, but all points of view. Yeah. Because that exists, that information. You could share that with me instantaneously. And that is real communication that breaks the barrier. Yeah. And it's more it's it's simpler, yet more sophisticated. Right. Right. You you have and more specific like you. You know, I I liken it to like if a caveman is sitting on the edge of a cliff and looking out at everything and there's a rainbow and there's maybe a double rainbow and there's like a sunset or whatever. It's just the most beautiful thing he's ever seen. And, you know, I write a book about this. I write a book about the scene. It's a 900 page book describing everything. Right. Down to the smell, down to the sound of the animals and the homeostasis rhythm and everything. It's just described perfectly in this book. Right. But the caveman looks at it, he just goes, oh, right. And like that communicates way more to me. Like who's more intelligent? Right. Me who wrote this like giant novel. Right. Or this guy who just goes, oh, and you get it. And Jim Sparks, who was taught on the ship, so how to how to condense language into the into a symbol the size of a 50 cent piece. Yeah. And he said there would be a whole novel of information in just the symbols that were. That were embedded in this tiny, tiny sort of. Right. Symbology, the size of. Like a sigil. Exactly. That contained information that you could then download sort of instantaneously. Sure. Yeah. That's incredible. Sacred geometry and whatnot. That is the next level to society, to communication, to sharing information. Technology. Technology. Sure. And that's a transformative event for all of us. Sure. Yeah. And I think that that is one of the things that we're being sort of, you know, shied away from. That's why psi phenomena, that's why psi phenomena refuses to be investigated or science refuses to investigate all of all of that stuff. It's more than just flippant ignorance of woo woo stuff. We're talking about border work that's being done to guard the fortress of society. Yeah, because once that opens. It doesn't close. And it's opening. It's opening. It's opening right now. I want a cup of tea. Yeah, let's take a little break. All right. Should record this. Yeah. Synchronicity can change your life, but opening yourself up to synchronicity is a technology. And it can be learned, you know? I agree. I agree. And I think that that's what the Golden Dawn was doing. And I think that that's what some of these magic with a K sort of efforts were imbuing in people. We were talking about this last night, and that's what I was thinking about last night when we were after we left. That we're probing the outer garments of something that isn't science and it isn't religion. It's something that both religion and science have been. Yeah, it's fundamental. Right. And that there's a fundamental revolution in how we can understand the universe that will lead to technologies to how to utilize this fundamental essence that you were just talking about, which is defined as love. Yeah. I have been recently in the last few years, but more specifically. In the last few months, implementing synchronicity engines in my life. So I will introduce random probability, you know, whether it's bibliomancy, whether it's I have apps. So like that sends me a word every hour on the hour, a word that I might not know, like a new word. Right. And sometimes that'll be incredibly synchronous. Okay. Um, Nate, just for fun. Yeah. Give us one. Verism. That's right now. That's the word that I just got. What's it mean? A style emphasizing realism and truth in art. Okay. That'll be the name of the new technology. Verism. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, that is, um, I do, I do believe that synchronicity plays an important part if you want it to. And if you let it, I think, and that's something that I've learned through my personal experiences and they can be debated and what's beautiful about synchronicity. What I really find genuinely like beautiful as a magician, there is a duality of, uh, the nature of synchronicity because on one side it's coincidence and on the other side, it's coincidence with meaning, right? It's it, we're talking about the same thing, right? You're talking about coincidence. I'm talking about synchronicity. We are literally saying the same things. Right, right. Oh, you wouldn't believe this happened, whatever. It's the same thing we're talking about. Right. Yet the interpretation of the information changes everything. Because of the observer effect. Correct. But you're going about your life. Right. Um, proving to me that it's just chance and, and that will affect your life in this way. And that's what you'll get. Yeah. And I'm going into it thinking, I don't think it is. I think there's something more to it, but statistically on paper, they're going to look identical. You know, they'll both see, like, I mean, when someone describes a synchronicity to me, I'm like, that's the definition of a coincidence, right? It's the very definition of a coincidence. Which is why it's so easy to hide. Which, which is the beautiful duality of it is that this skeptic physical materialist reality can coexist next to this, you know, fringe, esoteric, spiritual, whatever. And they can coexist together forever. And you can live happily. Right. If you're down here or down here, you might as well take the more magical road and live a more magical life, in my opinion. Which is why belief is the most powerful thing in the universe, you know, because that synchronous moment, uh, one, it opens the door for it to be shared and create a shared experience. Like when. When you're doing your magic and you have a, uh, a moment, which is, um, beyond your ability to comprehend, but it's a moment that happens with everyone. And then this egregore is created through the commingling of conscious observer experiences together. You're creating a third thing, whereas chance, that'll never happen. That won't happen. Yeah. That gets cut off at the base. Yeah. Even though it's the same experience. You know, and, and, and that, that fostering of belief is what opens the door to this new technology. So we actually need a belief as a component and belief can be used as a control system. Sure. Cause you can believe that you'll go to hell unless you, you know, pay, pay off the priest, you know, with some, with your, uh, whatever. 16 Hail Marys or whatever. Yeah. And they were even like literally paying them off. They were buying their. Sins back in the day, which is why Luther Martin Luther started the printing with the printing press, tacking that shit up onto the church doors saying, this is what's going on here. And that was the beginning of the end of the church, which is why they hated the printing press. They loved it at first. And then they. Hated it because they were exposing the control system that the church really was. Now science has taken over. Now we believe in science. Well, I trust the science. And that becomes a control system. It becomes a religion. Right. But the belief is the common thread that moves through all of that, including the belief in things like synchronicity, things like Psy, Gertrude Schmiedler with her sheeps and goats. You know, the sheeps had a much higher chance of experiencing Psy phenomenon, whereas the goats, they were nonbelievers. They had a much lower chance of seeing or experiencing anything like that. And what's beautiful, once again, is that feeds into confirmation bias. So, again, we're met with where the skeptic approach can make perfect sense. Yeah. Yeah. And so can the. Can't get out of it. Exactly. So they're both coexisting. Yeah. And every argument you have, the other side will have an equal and opposite argument. The only metric you can have is the outcome. And so when you have somebody living their life in a way that favors synchronicity, that favors perhaps a little bit more of a magical existence, and you see that the outcome of their life is them being. Being genuinely content. And I'm not talking about success. I'm not talking about manifesting a yacht. I'm talking about looking at someone and realizing that this person is leading an objectively happier life or at least a more content and fuller life than the person who is sort of in a curmudgeon-y attitude, being skeptical about everything and proving that everything that this person did, well, that's just BS. It's all chance. Yeah, but what's not chance? Is that this person is living with a full heart. Right. And this person is really looking desperately for meaning in their life. Well said. I like that a lot. But they can coexist. You can't logic your way out of it. Yeah. But you can create that illusion that like, yeah, they're the same thing, of course. But that's the beauty of it is that they do. Yeah. You can prove one with the other, sure. But tying yourself to a materialist scientific viewpoint. And saying, I'm open to this stuff. I just haven't seen it. Because you're going to have to. Yeah. You know, using logic, you're never going to make the leap. Yeah. There's only one way to make the leap, and that's to make the leap. Sure. Yep. Yeah. And you can't package. Right. Anything into. Like, you can't take something from another dimension and then try to package it into this one and try to explain it away with the tools that I have developed. In this dimension. It's just not how that works. We have human tools that developed here on Earth for human ends. And we're trying to use these tools to explore this alien architecture that we have little hope of grasping. Yeah. Yeah. This is the tool. Yeah. I'd like to, if you're up for it, I'd like to speak about your encounter. You know, you've not talked about it. You haven't talked about it much, and it's something that's deeply, deeply personal. I haven't talked about it at all. At all. Yeah. I told. I've had a couple of people that I respect and admire ask me to talk about it on different podcasts, but, you know, I can't talk about it, especially through the lens of an interface of a microphone and a camera. It's not something that I could share unless I was sitting across from a human being who I trusted and was genuinely open to the possibilities. And I don't even. I don't even know what all the possibilities are. I really don't. And I haven't talked about it at all. I won't say that it's sacred. It's sacred and it's profane. It marks an intersection in my life that there was no going back from. I didn't ask for it. I didn't have any concept of it. I didn't ask for any of anything that existed outside of the little world that I had been perfectly content to believe was perfectly real, you know. And the mundane world is beautiful, and there are, you know, magical things about it. There's a lot of magic in the world. But I just wasn't prepared. I just wasn't prepared for anything. I just wasn't prepared for any of it, you know. And it changed my life. Changed my life. Changed my entire life. Things that I was interested in, you know, like women and art and success. None of those things mattered anymore. And I didn't know what mattered. I didn't know what did. I mean, I had my daughter. I had the core, you know, reality that's. That I cared about. And probably, if it's possible, cared more about afterwards. But yeah, from one day to the next, I got to take this jacket off. It's getting hot in here. Yeah, okay. So, 2011. 2011, yeah. I was married for nine-something years. I was getting a divorce. Living alone. My daughter was with her mom. It was summer. It was probably August. It was probably about this time of year. So, I can't sleep. I've had this problem my whole life. And so, I have this ritual when I wake up in the middle of the night. I'd usually get a couple of hours, and then I'd be up in the middle of the night. And a lot of the times, I just wouldn't be able to get to sleep. And I was taking homeopathic stuff, which didn't really seem to do anything for me. I wasn't taking melatonin. Because I didn't like it. But you get up in the middle of the night and get out of bed. The doctor said, you know, don't lay in bed. Get out of bed. Go read. So, this was a ritual that I would have. You get out of bed, grab a book, and lay on the couch. And so, it's, you know, probably 2 or 3 o'clock in the morning. I didn't know. I didn't bring my phone with me. Don't look at the phone. Don't look at an iPad. You know, the blue light and all that stuff. So, I'm laying on my couch. So, I've got a window here. And the couch goes this way. And I've got a ceiling that looks like this with some beams on it. And the beams are running this way. And my ceiling, the widow's peak thing is over there. And I'm reading my book. And out of the top of my eye, I see a fuzz, a fuzz ball, a ball of fuzz. Maybe the size of a baseball. And it's fuzzy. And I'm looking at it and going, that's like an out-of-focus spot. What the fuck is that? And then the spot starts getting. And it starts leaving the wall and floating through the air as this moving ball of fuzz. And as it gets closer to me, it starts to resolve into these three shapes. They're about maybe the size of a large dinner plate, each of them. Maybe like that big. So, there's. So, there'd be like these three butterfly shapes without a head. It was like a snow angel. If you made a snow angel in the snow, these things that look like that, just like that. And there's three of them. The middle one, its wings are connected to the two outer ones. And this thing is coming towards me. And I'm thinking, I'm going to die. This is what happens. This is what happens when you die. Fuck. Fuck. "This is really bad." this this thing starts coming down and i have a coffee table that runs this way and i see that these butterflies are made out of like laser thread green thread red thread and then green and then red they're about maybe a quarter inch apart so they're the outline of these three butterflies uh and in the center is this little baby butterfly in each center and in those centers the two threads one green one blue one red are forming geometric patterns in the in the middle and each middle is different so there's each core is forming three different geometric shapes the shape would last for about half a second and then change and then the little threads would start weaving again and then they'd form another perfect geometrical shape that i'd never seen before in my life they weren't like triangles they were like complex geometrical mathematical symbols in each one three of them all going at once at different times and i'm thinking obviously that these are what happens is to come and and take me away and i i have all i feel is terror 100 unbridled fear is running through me i'm not jumping up i'm not running outside i'm not yelling i'm frozen in fear and these things they stop and they hover over my coffee table and they just sit there and they're blasting out these alien geometries and um i'm panicking and nothing nothing happens they just sit there they're just sitting there and i'm laying like this and looking at these damn things and i'm my i'm just sweating absolutely terrified frozen in fear and you know it was only later like days later that i was like the fuck was i doing you know why didn't i like you know like do something swap them away or yell at them or you know like all the things that you would normally do i didn't do any of that stuff and uh i we just sat there for for a while and then they started moving towards me and i the panic shot through me again i would freak out and uh they stopped and they backed off what the fuck is going on what are you guys doing what the fuck are you and what the fuck is happening and then my heartbeat would start slowing down because they weren't doing anything they were just sitting there so eventually i would my breathing would kind of return to normal and then they'd start creeping forward again and then i would panic again and then they would back off again and this maybe took 45 minutes of this that's such a long time it's beyond a long time especially when i mean just there's only later i know that i will get there so these things eventually start creeping towards this again this dance is going over and over and over i freak out what the fuck are you doing what the fuck are you what is happening they back off they wait i calm down they move forward over and over until finally i'm just sort of like okay well they're they're not doing anything and they they start and i keep my breathing under control enough and they start moving over my body so now they're right in front of me it's hovering you know over my mid midsection you know maybe around my knees and they're over my body now and now i'm looking at them head on and their little things are going off the three of them and they're making these incredible patterns and they're just sitting there they're just showing me they're showing me these insane alien geometries in two colors that look three-dimensional and you know that the things themselves are 2d i don't have depth they're just these flat and flat and they're just like a flat alien interdimensional butterflies and they're sitting there and they're making these alien symbols at me and i start to calm down a little bit and i'm thinking to myself i now if this is a hallucination it's a hell of a hallucination because there's no way that my brain could be coming up with these patterns that i swear to god i have nuts and i had time to look at them and go what are those things what what are they are are they is it a language is it a symbol but but what they were and i tried drawing them later and i couldn't because i couldn't wrap my mind around what they were i knew they were mathematical they were perfectly they were precise they were in these two laser thread colors and they had depth some of them had depth this went on for quite a while uh and then they started moving towards my face and i panicked again and now i'm thinking oh this is what this was about these fuckers want to get in me they want they're they're coming they're coming at me they're they want to like invade my body and now i really start freaking out like then i was like oh my god this whole thing was a dance they're hypnotizing me it doesn't matter what those little crazy symbols are that was just to hypnotize me to get me into the state like a rabbit you know like the infrasound that a tiger makes they were just like lulling me into the sense that they were just going to overwhelm me and i really panicked and i thought i was right all along this really is what happens when you die they're just taking their time about it and they stopped and they backed off and they sat there and they kept doing what they were doing and now i'm thinking okay they do want to get in me but they want permission they want me to say yes and they're not going to come in until i let them and i was like guess what that's never happening that is not a thing that is going to happen between us and they just sat there and did their thing and i'm like you know we can do this all night now i'm being flippant about it now and i'm like i'm not going to do this all night and i'm like i'm not going to do this all night but at the time it was terror and i wasn't speaking i was thinking these things in my mind like is this this can't be i know fuck no uh and then and then they start coming towards me again and then we i panic they back off again and this goes on for probably another half an hour 45 yeah this was not going away this was not a fuzzy hallucinatory you know experience this was this was wide awake in the middle of the night like you and me right here if this is real then that was real i don't know what else to tell you if this was real then that was real um and they were not going away they just were not giving up i mean it just went on for fucking ever and so finally i was exhausted uh the the kind of fear that would go through me wasn't just you know like freaking out it was like sharp i could feel it in my skin it was the kind of hormonal release in my body that hurt my skin like it was like waves of uh of of fear and adrenaline that that was a physical sort of my skin was hurting i remember thinking oh this hurts every time this fucking things come at me and that panic runs through me it's painful and but eventually i just i think they wore me down i think they they and and i was and i was i came to the conclusion that if these guys were here to hurt me or do something nefarious that they wouldn't be you know being so polite about it they wouldn't be so um they obviously wanted me to calm down i mean it took a long time for that to sink in but finally i'd sunk in they want me to calm down they're not they're not i'm gonna have to take the leap and say that they're not here to hurt me so i said okay in my mind i said okay do what you got to do and just like they heard me they just started they started coming in they started coming at me and they started got closer and they got closer and they got closer and when they got about to hear i closed my eyes and i felt the threads pass through me i felt those vibrate vibratory laser beams pass through me and i felt those vibrate vibratory laser-like threads pass into my skin pass into my bones into my body and i could see them i could see the these threads and they felt like they were elongating. So they didn't just pass through like that. They passed through and then they elongated. So they kept passing through like, you know, they just got longer and longer and longer and they're passing through me and passing through me. This is really weird. And then I, um, got an erection. This rush of hormones went through my body, gave me a hard on and this flood of like good feeling, you know, this relaxation, this release, this, and it felt like hormones being released in my body. Like, like things were, the chemicals were sort of being unleashed or released in, in my body. And, um, and that's the last thing I remember. I, my conscience, drifted off. It just, it took, and I, and I don't, it wasn't like turning on a light. It was just sort of like getting dimmer and dimmer and, and thoughts, you know, just drifted off. And I remember climbing into bed and I remember, um, thinking that, uh, the sun was coming up and, um, I could still see the afterburn. Those creatures in my mind because, uh, because I'd been staring at them for so long. Uh, and I'm, and I remember thinking, yeah, that's probably why. Cause as, as my eyes were closed climbing into bed, I don't remember getting off the couch, but I remember climbing into bed and still seeing the red and green threads in my, in my sort of afterburn sort of eyeballs and, uh, and thinking that that was why. And then I fell asleep. and then i never woke up the next day i was somebody else just like that just like that just like that lights out on that life lights on and i'll you know i wasn't left with anything i was just left with was that what the fuck was that you know the next day i was just off on you know on trying to figure out what the hell had happened to me you know i don't know what the hell was that so years later um uh edgar mitchell put out his really thick experiencer book uh where they interviewed something like 3 500 different people and experiencers and they put that all together it's a great book the free book yep and uh according to their surveys the number one reported encounter is with an energy being and the number two reported encounter was with some form of gray alien and the number one place it happens is in your bedroom yeah yeah yeah the uh the um that made me that was interesting you know that uh i think that came out in 2017 or something like that uh 2018 like that yeah it was the biggest study done of like experiencers and it's what showed that they were mostly benevolent as well and yeah yeah and the human the human-esque types are also almost equally reported with the gray um there's a lot of different kinds of grays and this uh this energy being thing uh you know i've uh there's uh there's orbs there's intelligent plasmas but i have yet to uh to find these guys these guys uh so if anybody out there knows anything i'd love to know what so you said you know obviously this changed you um from one day to the next you were just a completely different person did you feel in any sense different not because of the sort of traumatic experience of of witnessing something so insane but did you feel change perhaps because of something they left you i don't think so so i've asked myself that yeah i didn't get any psychic powers no downloads i didn't get any downloads none that you know of i i uh you know so i don't know i i was i went through a period where i was really uh i felt like i failed somehow like it was a test and i failed because i nothing happened they didn't come back they didn't uh you know i i wanted after that you know i i wanted answers i wanted them to come back so i could you know try to try to get some more information do you have any dreams about them or just nothing nothing it's so strange how it's so one-sided very one-sided but is it though right because like sure okay maybe they got what they needed from you somehow because clearly they wanted something from you like that they wanted in they want right and they and they they but they needed your consent they did um but what it left you was a deeper sense of reality i mean you've it it completely changed your outlook on on everything right and and maybe perhaps due to the experience that you had um trying to build yourself up after that but even so shattered my entire life yeah no i mean nothing made sense anymore after that and i and i it was disrobed of my illusions that i thought i knew what the hell was going on around here i don't i don't know a damn thing i don't know anything and and that is never left i just uh don't know anything and that's a nice place to start you know a really interesting place to start i don't have the tools to to navigate whatever that was we don't have any answers we don't we can we can try to land one of the one of the hardest things is to resist the temptation to land on something you know to say well these were angels you know and then find religion um you know or or uh or any any of the other you know um sort of narratives that i could invent and and i could build a whole dots around a number of different narratives but i i don't have any narratives you know but it did lead me to try to sort of well what it did was show me that the and the the first thing that i found i talked to a psychic i mean i didn't believe in psychics i but i've talked to one uh i talked to all kinds of people and i've really and and and leslie keen her and i've talked to a lot of people and i've talked to a lot of people and i've talked to a lot of people uh pilots you know talk about that that book is from 2011 that book was brand new just came out i snatched that up and that and that was um something concrete that i could hang my hat on go okay something's going on here something is happening you know and and that led me down the road and that was the closest thing i could find to uh of a rabbit trail that would lead to some sort of answers about what kind of universe we're really living in and that really became the question for me what kind of universe is this really what's really going on here come on yeah yeah i'm sure a lot of people in your position that have had these earth-shattering experiences that are so deeply personal that even saying them out loud feels like you're taking the air out of it you know um but i'm sure a lot of those people like yourself have found solace in works like leslie kane's or even the 2017 new york times article think of it what you will but it provides like you said some level of concretizing an experience that lives only in this one person's you know rear view and in their mind it doesn't exist out here anywhere and you can't you can't read on it you can't look for it and then when you have something like that it's got a it's got to be a good feeling you you have you know dots that you can put together you have other people that have had these similar types of experiences and that's the only reason that um that i would uh talk about it you know is to try to offer back some of the solace that i took when i started reading and listening to other people's experiences that happened to them that they went through that also changed the their lives in all kinds of different ways and i think that it's time for us to uh to make it okay to talk about this stuff i don't have any answers i have no no clue except for i know what happened to me and i know what i saw and other people do too did you face um did you talk about this at all when this came out no you just you just kept it to yourself i told my daughter wow and that was it yeah i told her briefly yeah yeah she was young and even then you're kind of like pulling your punches because you don't want to overwhelm anyone you don't want anyone to think you know you've lost the plot or and then i i told a friend a pretty good friend of mine um that was a bad idea so i kind of cut that off did they did they make fun or was it just don't know what to do with it right you know you just you just don't as soon as you start talking as soon as i started talking about it i was like this is not this is this was a mistake right i don't you know this is not nobody's prepared for any anything yeah what are you supposed to do with that right yeah right right i needed to you know i wanted to you know this is right after it happened i needed to of course share it with somebody but that was a bad idea i told my sister i mean i wouldn't say it was a bad idea it's probably a good idea but probably just yeah maybe not timely i told my sister she came over um you know um her birthday was in august so we were uh celebrating her birthday and then uh yeah that was one of the last times we we uh we hung out together you know and she died a few months after that but that was sort of one of the she was she was a little more you know i grew up with her so she was a little more um i got a little more out of that interaction with more receptive yeah but you know you quickly learn that this is not something that that you're that's going to help well you're not you're not going to get any answers and you're not and you're not not going to make you feel any better right by sharing this you know you might just like push people away yeah that's you totally understand it's totally understandable yeah yeah that rationality that you have about it is something that i found in most experiencers that i hold in high conviction is the sense of i get it you're gonna think i'm crazy i get it i would too and that is said by everybody who's had this experience if i were you i wouldn't believe me there's no way you can believe exactly but that's also for me like a really that increases my conviction on it because that's how i would be too if i try to imagine something like that happen to me i'd be like how do i even and if i'm a magician they're going to think oh this is just some trick or something like how would i even communicate that and and and the need to want to communicate it and be understood and connect with people is probably really dire i had to write it down yeah i had to write the book the book's not for even people who are alive right now the book is for the future the book is for when we can understand these kind of experiences in a better light and i'm hoping that it's helpful to people in in in the present you know but we're really we're we're laying the groundwork for a new ontology that is coming and we will get there and we're getting there now and every voice that we we can use everybody's voice right now we really can we're this is i was saying earlier that you know understanding what kind of cosmos we really live in is a freedom freedoms are never granted they're taken every time in history freedom of speech you know the freedom of equality these are taken they're never granted disclosure is not going to be granted to us we are going to take it and we're going to do it by sharing these kinds of experiences with each other and building the bridge to what the real world looks like it's the only way to do it that's what the that's what the watch guard said revolt yeah yeah you can build the world you know a revolution can be done huh do you need to do it yourself could you draw what the being look like just so i can show the audience give them a loose idea of of perhaps you could just imagine that there's three of these yeah you could just have to imagine that there's three of these yeah you could just have to imagine that there's three of these yeah right so they were they were like dense they had a density to them whoa laser quality to them definitely they were glowing threads like yeah wow and green and red too that that's got to be such a strange visual distortion seeing threads so closely together like some illusion like how many would you say of these threads how many would you say of these threads how many would you say of these threads uh in in sort of in this concentric uh in in sort of in this concentric uh in in sort of in this concentric pattern i would just be guessing but pattern i would just be guessing but pattern i would just be guessing but hundreds or or dozens yeah yeah i would hundreds or or dozens yeah yeah i would hundreds or or dozens yeah yeah i would you know i would just be guessing you you know i would just be guessing you you know i would just be guessing you could count them if you had could count them if you had could count them if you had to before you had to count them yeah to before you had to count them yeah to before you had to count them yeah that there may be um anywhere between that there may be um anywhere between that there may be um anywhere between 50 and 75 okay yeah yeah a lot yeah 50 and 75 okay yeah yeah a lot yeah yeah but it would limit you know a lot but but it would limit you know a lot but but it would limit you know a lot but not infinite i mean as basically as many threads as i mean as basically as many threads as i mean as basically as many threads as you know each one was about that big you know each one was about that big you know each one was about that big you know and then the center you know and then the center you know and then the center would have been the uh the little baby would have been the uh the little baby would have been the uh the little baby dude baby butterfly dude baby butterfly dude baby butterfly and that's where the and that's where the and that's where the the little shapes if you had to draw the shape just the if you had to draw the shape just the if you had to draw the shape just the shape like one shape in particular that shape like one shape in particular that shape like one shape in particular that you might have seen is there any way you might have seen is there any way you might have seen is there any way that you could or is it like a try it's that you could or is it like a try it's that you could or is it like a try it's like a tesseract essentially like a like like a tesseract essentially like a like like a tesseract essentially like a like a fourth dimensional object depicted in a fourth dimensional object depicted in a fourth dimensional object depicted in three dimensions or something it only three dimensions or something it only three dimensions or something it only lasted for lasted for lasted for um um um uh maybe uh maybe uh maybe let let maybe a half a second you know let maybe a half a second you know let maybe a half a second you know it'll be frozen in space the image it'll be frozen in space the image it'll be frozen in space the image sorry sorry sorry the image would be frozen in space for half a second really and then the and half a second really and then the and half a second really and then the and then the threads would disentangle they'd then the threads would disentangle they'd then the threads would disentangle they'd start start start whipping around each other whipping around each other whipping around each other and then they'd freeze again and then they'd freeze again and then they'd freeze again uh with another brand new shape how strange just the general idea like how strange just the general idea like how strange just the general idea like was that do you think i mean you've was that do you think i mean you've was that do you think i mean you've probably contemplated this in so many probably contemplated this in so many probably contemplated this in so many ways it must be so frustrating ways it must be so frustrating ways it must be so frustrating to an extent because you're not given to an extent because you're not given to an extent because you're not given any clear answers and all you can do is any clear answers and all you can do is any clear answers and all you can do is sort of sort of sort of impose your own impose your own impose your own anthropomorphic anthropomorphic anthropomorphic view on it like are they communicating view on it like are they communicating view on it like are they communicating with each other are they trying to with each other are they trying to with each other are they trying to communicate with you communicate with you communicate with you are they are they talking is this even a language is it are they talking is this even a language is it are they talking is this even a language is it random is it random is it random is it well it wasn't random yeah i mean it was well it wasn't random yeah i mean it was well it wasn't random yeah i mean it was really specific whatever the hell they really specific whatever the hell they really specific whatever the hell they were and i never saw the same shape were and i never saw the same shape were and i never saw the same shape twice really yeah twice really yeah twice really yeah so what you know we were in a language so what you know we were in a language so what you know we were in a language you'd think they were there'd be some you'd think they were there'd be some you'd think they were there'd be some yeah the word comes back or something yeah the word comes back or something yeah the word comes back or something yeah yeah never saw the same one twice yeah yeah never saw the same one twice yeah yeah never saw the same one twice and uh no the uh the middle of the damn thing no the uh the middle of the damn thing no the uh the middle of the damn thing would have been something like this would have been something like this would have been something like this you know it was sort of a you know it was sort of a you know it was sort of a and then the two threads you know one and then the two threads you know one and then the two threads you know one would come in would come in would come in this way and the other would come in this way and the other would come in this way and the other would come in like they were weaving something like a like they were weaving something like a like they were weaving something like a spider that's right just like a spider spider that's right just like a spider spider that's right just like a spider and it was like creating and it was like creating and it was like creating yeah yeah yeah a symbol and then there would be this a symbol and then there would be this a symbol and then there would be this you know this it was weird little you know this it was weird little you know this it was weird little architectable architectable architectable architecture inside this thing that would architecture inside this thing that would architecture inside this thing that would be be be you know what the hell they were you know what the hell they were you know what the hell they were can't can't yeah no yeah i mean can't can't yeah no yeah i mean can't can't yeah no yeah i mean i wouldn't know where to begin either but i wouldn't know where to begin either but i wouldn't know where to begin either but these were three distinct entities this these were three distinct entities this these were three distinct entities this wasn't one entity wasn't one entity wasn't one entity or was that i couldn't tell yeah i or was that i couldn't tell yeah i or was that i couldn't tell yeah i mean there's no answer there yeah that's mean there's no answer there yeah that's mean there's no answer there yeah that's what's so frustrating about this like what's so frustrating about this like what's so frustrating about this like there's no precedent and there's no there's no precedent and there's no there's no precedent and there's no comparison sometimes i wonder comparison sometimes i wonder comparison sometimes i wonder if the whole thing wasn't a technology if the whole thing wasn't a technology if the whole thing wasn't a technology right like something else was outside right like something else was outside right like something else was outside the room yeah that may have been this the room yeah that may have been this the room yeah that may have been this thing may have been something that was Created for a purpose and they send it in, you know, it's like the CIA out in a van, you know, and they're, and they're, they're sending in some microwaves through a, through a window to burn somebody's hands or something. You know, but this is sort of an interdimensional technology being sent from some other dimension into, into my living room. I don't know. I can't imagine, you know, if you were to, if you were to apply religious lens to that and you were, this was, this happened 800 years ago. Which you would definitely do. You know, what would it look? It'd be angels, right? It would be angels. It would be either angels or demons. Like, I mean, those are the, that's the binary, you know, there's the amount of options you have. Yeah, that's right. But that would definitely be, man, it's so strange. That's so strange. Because here we are. This clearly physical object that is behaving so strangely that seemed to have appeared out of nowhere, this apparition. A ball of fuzz. Yeah. So it entered and it also caught my attention. And I've always, I've always wondered, I'm reading a book and I'm always wondering, did I see it out of the corner of my eye or, or, or was there a little signal sent to, for me to look up at it? Because the, the hypnosis started. As soon as I saw the fuzz. Yeah, you, there's no going back to the book. I was frozen. I don't even know what happened to the book. Yeah, the book's out of the question. Yeah. But my consciousness was laser focused on that damn thing as soon as it was a ball of fuzz in the corner. And it came in where the, where the wall met the ceiling. That crack, that seam. So it made its way in through a crack. I don't know, but it appeared right in the crack, you know, in the ceiling. And it stayed there long enough for me to go, what the hell is that? And that, and that was it. It was like, it was on, you know, my, my, my, something took over, obviously. Something locked on to my consciousness at that moment. Yeah. I remember that moment. And that, that's when it started. And that, and, but my thoughts were free. I was free to think all of the normal thoughts. Yeah. And you weren't being. You weren't being put, there was nothing being put into your head. I just, I just didn't move. Couldn't, you were terrified. I didn't, I didn't think about moving. Yeah. So I don't know if I was. If that was induced. Induced or if I, I don't know if I was, my body was frozen the way we read about in a lot of, you know, aliens have the ability. But you hear about that. To freeze, you know, stop a guard from drawing its gun, freeze them, but keep the autonomic nervous system intact so they can breathe and they can look around, but they can't move. But you hear about people not being sure is what I'm saying. There are a lot of people who said, I don't know whether I was just afraid or whether they stopped me from moving. Yeah, that's true. And then other people do feel that they've been frozen. Yeah, they've been frozen. But I don't know. I think I was. I mean, I think I was. I think that's not the way I would have behaved, you know, as a normal person. It's almost, it's almost strangely predatory. Oh, it was predatory. Do you know what I mean? Like, there was like, the way that you're describing it is like, incredibly invasive. It's invasive. But so strange that like, they would need your permission. Yeah. Like they needed it because otherwise. Yeah. They're doing, they're coming towards you anyways. They could have just kept coming towards you. They respected my, my free will. That makes me think that there's a benefit there for you then too. They also didn't go away. Yeah. You know. Right. They were just. They were just waiting for you to. They weren't waiting. They were wearing you down. They were waiting for me to give up. But they did need my permission. They did need my permission. They weren't going to. They were. Whatever the experience was, it was not going to be invasive, even though it was invasive. They weren't going to do what they were going to do until it was an acquiescence of that we're going to do this. You know. Let's do this dance. Let's do where we need. We're going to do this and it's a matter of time before you say yes. That's scary. Because this is happening. What's something you would have done differently in that moment? Like now that you've had time to think about it, would you be like, man, I wish I would have grabbed them or I wish I would have filmed them or I wish I would have talked to them out loud or screamed at them or thrown something at them? Is there anything you wish you would have done slightly differently? All of those things I wish I would have done. But at the end of the day, I don't. I'm not kicking myself. Because there was nothing. I could have done differently. There's no other way that that could have played out. Maybe a little bit long. Maybe I could have held on a little bit longer before they before they had their way with me. But did you ever think they would have done this to another family member? I would have liked to have gotten some answers. If I could have it my way, I would want to know what the hell, where they're from, what they want, what they're doing. What it did to me, you know, what they got, you know, what they what they left. I would like answers. I'd like to know what happened when I lost consciousness. That's really what I'd like to know. But I'm actually kind of terrified. You don't want to do any of the regressive stuff. I haven't done any regressive stuff. I'm thinking maybe maybe that I might. But but I don't want to. Yeah, that's fair. And I would go with your gut on that. Yeah. Do you know, do what feels right in that case? Don't force. something like that yeah i don't i don't feel at the end of the day that it was in that it was um bad bad you know but it was a negative thing i and it's i i wouldn't wish that on anybody in the world but i'm actually incredibly grateful did you have anybody in the house in the house with you my daughter was at her mom's that night do you think it would have changed how yeah absolutely yeah and i thought about that a lot if my daughter was in the other room that would have been a completely different experience yeah you go to her first i whatever well i i don't know but it would have been a completely different experience all i would have been thinking about yeah of course it's of course you know but she wasn't in the house you need yeah it's probably part of it it's probably part of it they probably knew that they obviously they knew that gosh gosh gosh "it's so funny but i desperately want you to have an answer i know that you must obviously want your answers but like i want you to have an answer i want you to have an answer i don't want the answer i just want you to have it i feel like you deserve an answer i feel like that's show me something that's strange and don't give me an explanation is like the the sickest joke you could pull on somebody like what are you doing here like give give give give the man something and for years this was not a thing that you could i had any inkling of that i could um share this with anyone but i did start writing all uh stuff down you know i started writing stuff down right away and i and i knew that i needed to share the experience i knew that became part of the journey relatively soon i'd say within a six months i was sitting on my um back deck and uh looking at the stars and i and it just came over me i need to write all this down i need to write everything about everything that i can about all of this and i need to write it down if not not for now then just as a record for somebody this needs to be and that just sent me on on the journey you know and that's uh it's it's where the book comes from maybe that's the whole point you know who knows i mean i i have to kind of believe that yeah i have to believe that there's a point and i have to believe that we're slowly building the bridge to a new to a new reality to a new life a new world yeah we can create a new world it exists it's real have you ever done um like psychedelics yeah have you tried to like i have figure out what it was yeah yeah so what have you tried what have you gone down i smoked dmt with paul heineck with paul heineck yeah and that was the reason i did it i was like maybe they're over there yeah they're waiting for me let's go see them maybe this is the maybe this is where i supposed to meet put the dots together and meet meet them and what came from that nothing no do you have a good time i got a lot out of it yeah i went to the center of the universe and met the the mother of the cosmos so you know there's it's there's a lot of value it's not nothing in dmt let me tell you yeah that that was stunning and i think that all of these modalities are leading us toward the same thing i i think that there is a um that the universe is constructed of a non-local essence that we call love it's a human word that we use to to talk about a innate connection that we all share that exists everywhere and every all at one time and that we're all born from this s this this desire this impulse to be the impulse to create the impulse to to join together to create to create novelty to be in the universe i think it's happening everywhere we're all at once. I think this is the heart of synchronicity. And, uh, you know, we call it love because we're humans and we need to, you know, make, make vowels, funny noises come out of our mouth to talk about stuff that, oh yeah, I know what you're talking about. That thing that doesn't have a really very good definition, but we all know what it is. I think the universe is made out of that. And then, you know, I think that's a, a hell of a revelation. No. Well said. And I think I agree with you. I think that that to me is becoming more and more clear as I'm on this journey, myself, discovering things about myself, uh, you know, through these conversations, through these very cathartic interactions, I'm also coming to that conclusion. And, uh, you know, that's, that's one of those things that like, when you have a revelation like that, as you go down this, it makes you feel good. It's not just like an intellectual stimulant, right? You have an emotional stimulation that is occurring much like the one when you create a bond with someone or a connection with someone or, you know, or, or, or have someone in your life that you care about or, or a memory like these things are more than information on a piece of paper that we can study with science. And it's, and we can still study it with science, but we have to start injecting, uh, some love into the situation. Yeah, I would think so. We're never going to get there. I mean, and why not? I mean, isn't that the greatest thing in the world? I think so. Like we'd, we'd had this conversation with Dr. Mossbridge found a substantial increase in when someone was experiencing unconditional love. Such a great dot. That's such a fantastic clue. That's such a touchstone that Mossberg has found and put together. I mean, that is a ledge, that we can build. It's the keyhole. Yeah, it really is. Yeah. It's the keyhole. You're like, oh, wait. And I think it's the beginning of learning how, uh, these, um, entities and I don't think they're non-human. Uh, the consciousness, the intelligence that we're dealing with, it's not non-human, it's non-local and that non-local intelligent technology starts with what we're calling love. Hmm. This non-local essence, it's a information system. It's just not, uh, it's just not local. Yeah. I wonder if, you know, if you go back in time, like, let's say I try to picture myself, right? Let's say I am, I am an alien and which I am by the very definition, but let's say I'm, I'm out here and I've developed technology that understands that love is a very strong energy. It is, uh, a fundamental property of the universe and how technology works and everything. And I can use that to somehow bounce around the universe or, or, you know, talk to people in their minds or whatever it is. And I, I, you know, I, I posit this idea to myself, like if you were an alien and you were zipping around 2000 years ago and you just, you see this like emanating force on the planet and you go, what is that? Right. And like a moth to a flame. You're like, that's creation energy. That's a lot of energy where it was. Oh, there's a guy there and he's just like emanating this, you know? And like, maybe to them, I always thought like, what a strange idea to be like, you're zipping across. And then that's what made them go that way. Really interesting. What do we have here? We have this, you don't even know what they have. These people, this is an incredible amount of technology that, uh, you know, and maybe that's why we're being studied. That's one of the things that Dr. Paul Parada was told on the ship or wherever the hell he was with the, uh, human-esque aliens. Oh, really? He was up there for three days. He starts freaking out again. He's like, I want to go home. I miss my kids. I miss my family. This is really fucking weird. I'm overwhelmed. You guys are jamming information into my head and I can't take it. And one of the aliens goes, come here. He goes, you are made of love. He goes, all of that, all your fears, all of your bullshit are all that shit away. There's only one thing that matters and that's love. And you connect to that love. And he goes, I'll show you how to do it right now. And he connected Paul to his family. And Paul says he was there in the space, the laboratory, but his kid, his own living room appeared before him. And he saw his two children playing. And he saw his wife looking after the kids. And Paul was overcome with this overwhelming feeling of love. And he looked at one of his kids, the little one, the little three-year-old. And he said, I love you. And the kid turned and looked around and smiled at him. And then they went, kind of went away. And then the aliens told him, he said, everybody carries within them this flame. And we see that flame and we're attracted to that flame. And some people have bigger flames than others, but people with a, with a big flame, those, those are the people we're attracted to. We study that. Whoa. Yeah. That's dead on. Yeah. That was the thought that I, you know, if you're traveling and you see that, you go, what is that over there? You know? And that like, in my head, I was like, maybe that Jesus guy, a couple thousand years ago was just this like being that had a lot of love. Right. You see all these depictions of angels, the hearts with these beaming rays of light and stuff. And I thought maybe this is just, and who knows what he is, you know, maybe he's also alien. I don't know. But you know, that would be, um, if love is a fundamental property of the universe of understanding technology, then obviously it's of interest to people, you know, seeking it, who don't have it perhaps, or don't have as much abundance of it. Yeah. And studying it and, you know, do they, are they trying to figure out ways to create space to foster more? Sure. That's what an AI would do. Right. What is love? And they would like just grow things and be like, Ooh. That's the other thing Paul Parada said. He said, they don't feel emotions the way we do. He said, they don't have the familial attachments that we do. They don't, they're not, they're not all, you know, getting bent out of shape about shit. No, no extremes. Right. Yeah. And yet they're, they're have this innate, sort of fascination, but also connection to this, um, this f they described it as a flame, you know, that we all carry. And then you have these other beings, um, from Joseph, uh, the Wunderka. Right. Who cried. Yeah. Yeah. Weeping. Who, who weeped at like something very emotional, you know? And, and so. His pain, his own pain and frustration at the world that he lived in. And the first thing out of his mouth was, how do we fix this? This is a mess. You, the Adolf Hitler just killed 40 million people. Yeah. And to them, that's like over stimming. They're like, Whoa. And like, that's too much emotion. We don't feel that emotion normally. They started weeping. Yeah. Yeah. Incredible. Um, okay. I think it's about time for some questions from the audience. What do you think you down to answer a few questions? Oh my. Yeah. Yeah. I only got a few, like three or four. Yeah. All right. I'm going to turn the camera off. Camera on. Um, okay. Let's get into some of these interesting questions. The audience always has the best questions. You know, I'm, I'm, I'm cherry picking. Great. But as soon as your name came out too, it was like flooded. Uh, so many people were very curious about what you had to say. So, um, let's go here. This is from Tess. How do you do that? From your perspective as a storyteller, which piece or pieces of purported fiction most closely resemble the facts? Yeah, that's a great question. Yeah. Well, obviously close encounters, they did their homework and they certainly did. Um, the fire in the sky and a wonderful story is really too bad that they, this, this producers decided to completely alter the, uh, abduction experience that has really never been filmed. And I, uh, I would love to do that. You know, I, I would love to, uh, film and I've worked on a screenplay about the abduction experience. Um, the, uh, the made for TV movie, uh, based on, uh, the Bud Hopkins book. Oh yeah. It wasn't bad. Yep. No, yeah. That was, that was creepy. Yeah. With the, uh, with the hybrid stuff and like, man, that creeped me out. Yeah. Yeah. It was based, uh, Randall Nickerson. Was a consultant on that as well. Yeah. They really did their homework. They really tried to, to get the aliens right. You know, in fact, some of the pictures online of that, those aliens are still circulating, circulating as real aliens. Uh, they did a great job. What'd you think of disclosure day? I, um, I, I'm a huge Steven Spielberg fan. Same. Yeah. Yeah. There's all there, you know, so I'm, I'm a movie lover. There's a lot to love in the disclosure day, you know? Yeah. And I, and I hope it opens up. opens the door to make more movies. I've got a great script um uh calvin parker oh yeah yeah and charles hickson yeah pascagoula pascagoula case in 73 that's a really interesting uh contact experience story that took over the nation in 73 and really sparked a lot of the debates that went on and of course that was uh the year of the humanoids according to David Webb, who wrote a fantastic monograph about that. But hell of a year, 73, all over the world, humanoid landings. It was a hell of a wave. And Hickson and Parker really got caught up in the brunt of it. It ruined both of their lives, especially the young one, poor Calvin. That dogged him for the rest of his life. He really had trouble integrating that experience into his life. And I think that that is a wonderful story that needs to be told. Yeah, I'm surprised it hasn't been. There's so many stories, though, as you know, that would make for incredible movies. His two brothers wrote a wonderful screenplay. Really? Yeah. I've got it. I'd love to turn that into a film. You wouldn't need a whole lot of money these days to do something like that. So that's something that I have on the books. I think that would be a good thing to do. Oh, definitely. That's a really compelling and strange story. Also, I'm really surprised no one's done a genuine blockbuster on Roswell. I know. That blows my mind. I pitched a Roswell miniseries. We took it around. We took it to all the things, all the studios, all the outlets, and we couldn't get anybody. They're like, yeah, it sounds like a period drama. Do you guys not know? No, I guess you really don't. I'd hit it from such a strange angle. For today's audience, I'd be like A24 angle where you're one of the perhaps counterintelligence officers, and it's just slice of life. Yeah, that's the way to do it. And you're just following this guy as he's putting the kids to bed. Jesse Marcel. Yeah, exactly. You have no idea of anything. And all of a sudden, in the background, there's all this stuff happening, but you don't really know. And follow Mac Brazel. These two guys on opposite ends. It was kind of great as they both kind of changed sides by the end of that experience. Yeah, it's true. That's a really neat story. We tried to do it as a miniseries. Maybe we make a better movie. I mean, just Roswell, obviously. Or just 1947 would also work. As a title, I mean, those are. Great title. You had the series. Well, I mean, there was Roswell, the series on the CW about some teenage kids being aliens and living among us or whatever, some heartthrobs. That makes it a little harder. It does make it a little harder. Stuff for the studios to sort of wrap their head around. Take it seriously. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But then. My buddy Josh Boone is a Roswell fanatic. He's got all this wonderful research. And I'm like, I'm hoping that he gets to do that. That'd be cool. There's Taken by Spielberg. Yeah. The 10-part miniseries. Oh, great. And it's available on YouTube if anybody wants to watch it. I highly recommend it because. I highly recommend Taken. It covers. It goes so deep. Like, from telepathic abilities, from having an alien, from screen memories of Nazis, and from, like, crash retrieval. It's very on the nose. And that, plus Close Encounters, plus Disclosure Day. This guy knows stuff. I'm just. I mean, he's got. He's playing coy. He's done his homework. Dude, he's done more than his homework, let's be honest here. When you're Spielberg, I would imagine that you'd have people coming out of the woodwork to tell you what's happened. Well, so they had, you know, obviously, J. Allen Hynek as a consultant for Close Encounters of the Third Kind. They had somebody play Jacques Vallée. So there was some inside baseball going on there. There was crates of, you know, skunk works and whatnot. Yes. All that stuff. All that stuff was. You could learn all that stuff at that time without having any insider knowledge. The hand scanner? I've heard. Yeah. I mean, that was pretty inside baseball. I think that he probably picked up some details from different people. But that was going on everywhere. Yeah. You know, like, the UFO guys, the researchers, they were all picking up these little tidbits. Who consulted for Disclosure Day, though? I haven't. I looked at the. I looked at the credits. I couldn't really find anybody that, like, fit the bill in terms of, you know, a whistleblower. Like, I would have had some of these whistleblowers be like, you know. The rumor is that they approached some intelligence, approached Spielberg. That's the rumor. Yeah, that's a rumor for Close Encounters back in the day. For Close Encounters, yeah. Yeah. You know, still compelling. And Spielberg, you know, no matter what he does, it's always going to be magical. Agreed. That scene. Where they walk the child into the woods, I mean, gives me goosebumps. That scene is worth watching the entire movie just for that scene. The. Capturing. Dude. Yeah. Taking the child in this sort of Hansel and Gretel scenario, right? Because it is what it is. It ends up being horrific, really, when you think about it. You have this, like, oh, cute animals, this nice little gingerbread home in the middle of the woods, very magical. And then it starts spinning and becoming clinical. Oh, yeah. And cold and a slab, dude. I mean, those are, yeah. That terrified. It was like. I've read accounts about children will have, like, big bunny rabbits come into their room and play with them and then take them out the window. And that's how they take a. lure them on to craft. That seems nefarious. Yeah. I mean, it does. You know, in that moment when I watched that scene, I felt slighted for the kids. Yeah. Like, just stay by. They're bunnies, then. What are you doing? Well, you got to turn into these ugly things and, like, on this metal slab all of a sudden with these white lights. Like, just stay the deer. There's some sort of impregnation of our newest sphere, of our human, this field of human consciousness. We're being impregnated with this stuff. You know, they don't have to reveal themselves at all. They could do all of that stuff and knock every experiencer out while they're sleeping. Take them on to the craft. Never wake them up. Then put them back. Put them back in their bed. They could do that for decades. Right. Yeah, there's a reason there. Yeah, that's a good point. Okay. From Alan Pugok. I don't know how to spell that or pronounce that. Barker. Have other Hollywood figures shared UFO encounters with you, and can you share them? The answer is yes and no, because I don't have their permission. Would you share with keeping the source anonymous? I'd rather not. Sure. Fair enough. That's fair. But how many would you say? Not very many. Okay. So a few? No. And would these be names that people would be familiar with? Sure. Really? Yeah. What do you think is their reluctance to want to come forward? That's- Career or- Everyone's on the journey. We're all trying to muddle our way through this, and it is not for the faint of heart. And there are consequences, and there have been consequences. And I think that that's changing, and I'm willing to say that that should change. We should be a lot lighter with this. We don't have to believe or not believe. We should just take this a little lighter. This isn't- No one's forcing poison down your throat. Just take it easy. Yeah. It's okay. We can all get along to get along. Yeah, I agree. Were any of those stories, did they involve beings? Not that I know. Mostly spirits. Mostly some- Okay. All right. Interesting. And I'm sure, hopefully, with podcasts and conversations like the one we're having and the ones like this, that'll make it commonplace to talk about. For so many- God, there's just so many people out there. I mean, yeah, we're still living in it, but the ice is melting. Yeah. Yeah. This one from Hex. Kind of answered this in a way, but it's maybe a different question. If you could go back and watch your 2011 experience as a fly on the wall, would you? That entire experience is burned into my head in 1080p in a way that. Yeah. we'll never go away. And a fly on the wall, I guess that would mean sort of from an outsider perspective, right? Sort of like watching myself go through that. Ha ha. No, I wouldn't want to watch myself go through that. No, that would be really embarrassing. You see the utter terror on my face, you know, as a man who's just, you know, meeting the angels that are going to steal his soul away and, you know, die of a heart, be found the next day dead of a heart attack or something on the couch. It's like that, that's what that was, you know, that would have been the look on my face. Yeah. Sheer terror. Yeah. You know, but the terror of death, you know, and that was the other confrontation, you know, as I kind of started this conversation, fear has been, you know, something that I think that I've been put here to, or it may be part of the lessons that I'm supposed to be learning in this life. Whoa. That just occurred to me. Yeah. That's the first thing you mentioned on this conversation was that, you know, if there was a lesson for you to learn, it's overcoming that fear. Part of it. But then what did those things do? Right. When they sensed you were fearful, they stepped back. Yeah. They were helping you learn that lesson. It's possible. Whoa. I mean, whether that was intentional or not, I don't know, but maybe. Maybe. Well. Or maybe. Maybe just the synchronicity. Right. Right. Okay. Last one here from T.H. Perry. This is a good one, because you've got a lot of these in your book. Which older UFO cases most shape how you see the phenomenon's long history? Hmm. The phenomenon's long history, how I see the phenomenon's long history, right? So, well, it has to be the encounter cases, you know, and the earlier encounter cases are also phenomenal. And the fact that they started as far back as our records go, really, you know, and again, Preston Dennett is a great resource for this, but the cases from the 1910s, the 1920s. And Canada, there's a few there, too. The 1930s, you know, the cases that happened before 47, the first worldwide UFO wave of 47 is what kicked off this sort of, this whole endeavor, this whole transformation. But the groundwork was being laid for decades before that. We just didn't have the language. And some folks, like Evelyn Wendt, who in 1923. Was playing, was that a Canadian case? She's playing in her schoolyard in the grass. And this ship comes down out of the middle of nowhere and these robotic flower beings get out. And they're basically her height, you know, she's like a seven-year-old girl in 1923. And the beings got, were really upset about the science building on the property. And they told her that if the work. And the science building continued, they would blow it up as this is these bizarre cases. These flower people are like, the work must stop in the science building. And then they went in their craft and they dragged out this huge, heavy instrument and they, she didn't know if it was a weapon or what the hell it was. And they asked her to help her and she's trying to lift this. She said it was way too heavy. And then they basically put it back in the ship and took out. And they said, before they took off, they said, we're going to be back for you in 35 years. And then they flew away. They never came back. And she lived in terror for 35 years. They never did come back. 50 years later, as an older lady, she told that story in 1973, because all of the other humanoid cases were coming out. So she said she wanted her story to be recorded, even though it had started in 1923. So that was a big transformation for me, you know, just helping to sort of. Yeah. Take shape, to put a shape to the phenomenon. Yeah. Udo Wartena, same kind of thing. He came out in the eighties. Right. And it wasn't even him that came out. They found like his detailed account. That's right. In writing. Yeah. You know, after he passed. Yeah. That's cool. Yeah. And being like, yeah, I was, you know, prospecting and. Right. They took me on board and showed me the tech and. There's a case from the thirties in Italy where this artist. Um, I found that one's on a little iffy or on because he was an artist and a writer, and it just felt like he may have been cat that he told his account in the fifties. So I think there's a little bit of that going on. Oh, definitely. I mean, you look at Dan Fry, you look at, you know, uh, Georgia Damski and this whole bizarre sort of space brother movement, which really bothers me because there really are these tall, blonde human. Esque aliens. So I'm of two minds were the, were, was that contactee movement instigated by the human asks, knowing that, that it would, wouldn't be believed knowing that it, or was that groundwork laid, were those folks tapping into some sort of non-local information system where the egregore of the human. Esque alien. Everyone. It's just. Sort of coming together, comes together in the subconscious in some fashion. Are we tapping into, you know, and that happens. That's a phenomenon, the multiples phenomenon. The calculus was invented by two people at the same time, or, you know, the steam engine, four people invented it at the same time. So there seems to be this sort of non-local sort of information system that we're drawing from. And then that, that happens at, at certain moments in, uh, in society, things. Reveal themselves in different ways, but I don't know. Yeah. And, you know, it's a shame because at the heart of it, a lot of these experience or phenomena at the heart of it, there, there always is like some truth. And we've seen so many examples or at least, you know, nothing we can prove, but where the initial experience, you know, I'm, I'm usually pretty high conviction on, but then after that, there's like the more, you know. Yeah. Fantastic. Well, so that keeps happening. Right. And it was, uh, Andy from, uh, that UFO pod, what I was chatting to, I think recently, and he's, he had a really good analogy. It was like, if my son came up to me and said, dad, I flipped the bottle and it landed, I did the bottle flip and I landed. And then, you know, I had no reason not to believe him. But then if every day after that, he's like, but I flipped it twice and it landed on the head. And then I, I did a backflip and I flipped it. And it's like, and you got to keep believing him. And eventually you kind of go, I don't know if I can believe all of this. Yeah. And then it takes away from the initial bottle flip. Exactly. And then people throw the baby out with the bathwater and that's just kind of a tragedy. Yeah. But we're going to get, you know, we're going to get all that. Yeah. Going to be part of it. Well, I appreciate you, um, coming on this podcast and having a discussion with me. Not only that, I appreciate you spending time with me and, and, um. I really enjoyed it. It was super fun. Yeah. And it was, it's, uh, there's a bit of cathartic, uh, in there too. Well, I'm glad. Well, you're welcome anytime. Um, I hope, uh, you get, you find some resolve through this, uh, through the release of your book, which is going to be greatly anticipated. Um, let me know, you know, when that comes out and I'll be happy to scream to the top of my lungs. It's a fantastic read. I'm not just saying that, uh, it really is well-written. Thanks. Yeah. And, uh, I've learned of a bunch of new cases because of it. So. It's very exciting for me. I love that. I love digging up into the stuff, but, uh, I really appreciate it. It's such a great couple of days and, um, it's really neat, really neat to be in the skiff. Thanks for having me. Really. Well, it means a lot. Pleasure's all mine. Thanks. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye.