Hollywood Actor Shares Wild Alien Encounter Stories - Thomas Jane | ep. 101

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And most people were like frozen in time, like just frozen, including myself, but I could see. And I had a cigarette in my hand before the incident happened, and when it ended, the cigarette was burnt all the way down to the filter. So we definitely lost time, like a few minutes. And I did hear a voice in my head speak to me, and what it said was that not to be afraid, that they weren't going to harm us, but they were collecting a DNA scare. Ever since then, I have had some very strange streams, very strange downloads. I watched your podcast all the time, and just wanted to leave this information, that it definitely has happened to me. Welcome, Thomas Jane. Thank you. For those of you who are not familiar with some of your work, I would definitely type them out on IMDB, and you'll probably recognize a few movies, at least, at the very least. That you've been a part of, I mean, just, I found out yesterday you've done a lot of Stephen King movies, actually, which, yeah, the Dreamcatcher, 1922, and then the Mist, which is an amazing movie by every standard, I think, to this day. It's just like one of those really, really incredible ones. By the way, on a side here, have you seen Widow's Bay? No, no, no, no. It's on Apple. It's great. It's a horror/comedy. Matthew Reese is the lead phenomenal, but he borrows from so many Stephen King movies, including the Mist. At one point, his character, he's like the, I guess, the town mayor, mayor, Tom, he runs back in, there's this fog creeping in, and along with the fog comes like all this, I don't know, bad news and bad luck and whatnot, all the bad juju, and he runs in and he goes, there's something in the fog, and I go, that's from the Mist. There's something in the Mist, and so, yeah, a movie that's still being referenced today, but yeah, that's not what we're here to talk about, although I'm sure we're going to get into some of that, but we're here to talk about the UFO/UAP phenomenon, and the fact that you sent me, and I guess an early advanced copy of your new book, The Watchguard. Well, I know you're a reader, and it has, I've written an account of something to happen to me in 2011, so yeah, I wanted you to read them. Well, I appreciate you sending that my way, and I did read it. I've been furiously reading it, not reading it in a furious manner, but trying to get through it before you got here, because I, you know, a lot of stuff going on, but I'm every night, you know, ripping through these pages. It's a really well written book, and one of my favorite things about this book, I think other than your personal experience, because you are by every metric, an experiencer, you know, to those wondering what your connection to this is, and how you got into that, maybe we'll get into that a bit later, but you are an experiencer. And so a lot of this is through the lens of someone who was deeply affected by the phenomenon on a personal, very personal way, and to an extent, really messed with you, and still to this day, I take it, does mess with you. Change my life. Yeah. Changed everything about my life. Yes. I'm an unwilling participant, and as so many people are that I found out, you know, but in 2011, I had no idea that any of this stuff existed, you know, I liked UFOs as a kid, but I liked, you know, vampires too. And one of the, you know, disappointments of being a kid was realizing that vampires just as totally made up, and that UFOs were just, you know, totally impossible. You know, they just didn't make any sense how they could get here. It just, unfortunately, you had to sort of throw them into that drawer, and I did, and I did for a long time, for years, until 2011. Yeah, there's a, like a magic trick, sometimes, you know, it's good to suspend your disbelief to enjoy the magic, but there is, in your case, and just like any really good magic trick, it is the unwilling suspension of disbelief. You were forced to suspend that disbelief in this encounter, and I do want to get into that, but I also want to talk about every chapter of this book is, okay, first of all, there's a lot of really deep philosophical takes on this stuff. You know, you, you reference everyone from Keel and Valet to people like Abbey Lo and the mainstream sort of UAP narrative and everything happened on, on the science side. Like you've clearly done your homework with all this. I didn't know this prior to meeting, we met at Contact the Desert, and when I started looking you up and like your connection to the phenomenon, I started realizing like, oh wow, you've been going to like move on symposiums, you've been like, you've been really ingrained in this. You're not just in, forgive the, the term, but you're not just a celebrity who's interested in UFOs. You have a real history with this stuff. Yeah, recently, you know, I mean, when I first fell down the rabbit hole, I did, I met Travis Walton at a convention near the LAX airport. I met Linda Moltenhow and then she talked to me for like 45 minutes, you know, it was, it was really interesting. But then I kind of backed away, I got it in a Stephen Basset. Yeah, he started having this monthly meeting where people would come in. I heard about that and started showing up and met Steve. I got roped into narrating a Stephen Greer documentary. I didn't know that. Called Sirius. Yeah, it was his first documentary and they came and I had Greer come over to my house and show me photos of that, add a, Cam, a humanoid, you know, kitchen, yeah. And that was odd, it was this interesting experience. But I narrated the documentary Gary Nolan, that was the first appearance of Dr. Gary Nolan who did the genetic analysis of the Attic Academy, you know, I remember that documentary very well. Yeah, it was cool. I was happy to be a part of it, you know, just try to find ways to spread the word. And these were relatively early days, you know, and then all this time I've been making notes, you know, I guess it's a normal reaction when my world was shattered. I just started writing things down. I had to write shit down to try to put things in a place where I could look at them and try to see how things might fit together and how any of this might comport with the world as I understood it, the real world, you know, the world that was, that everyone tells you is real and the one that's strictly reinforced by the rules of the game here on Earth. So that was a conundrum and those notes eventually turned into the outline of a book. And then I started to, somebody invited me to contact in the desert three years ago. So that was, we met, I've been there twice before that. Right. And they asked me to talk, you know, I did a talk at the Hollywood Disclosure Alliance, a lot of great people there, really, you know, terrific. interested in the topic, along the way I became, really good friends with Paul Heineck. - He's great. - I love that guy. - He gave me those. - Yeah, the "Skipnoms." - Yeah, the "Skipnoms." - Yeah, the "Skipnoms." - Yeah, the "Skipnoms." - Yes, I bless them. (laughing) - Well, they're protecting you, sir. - Thank you, I don't need it. - Thank Paul. (laughing) - And he, we really hit it off and had a lot to, these conversations are what, or how we learn, how we put the pieces together, and we're all sort of groping in the dark around these things, and somebody's like, "Hey, come over here, feel this, what the hell is that?" And I've been happy it wouldn't be involved with contact. I think it's a fantastic organization of like-minded human beings. And so, yeah, I guess I've been involved peripherally. - Sure. - I mean, more than most, it's really quite interesting because I would say, you know, when you get people's takes on the phenomenon normally from someone who's just approached the phenomenon recently, maybe due to revelations in the news or congressional hearings. There is a, I don't know, there is a path that you can see people take where, and I've invict them to the same thing, but you start off with like, oh, it's flying saucers and the grays, and like that's like the whole thing. And then, no, they're from Zeta. And then like this whole right and evolves, and over time, you know, when I meet somebody who's just gotten into the topic, and I don't consider myself to be, you know, an expert by any metric, but when I meet somebody who's really green around the gills, you know, for this, I hear them say, oh, they speak with such certainty, and there's this done in Kruger effect of like, you know, very high level of confidence. It's the grays and they're from Zeta. - We have to nail it down somehow. - Yeah, exactly. And then I'm very excited because then I get to say, well, just wait 'til you get to the point where you understand there's like a whole non-physical thing that's way more prevalent than anything physical in this topic. And they go, yeah, but that's just like technology that the grays have or something, right? And I go, I'll see you in six months. And then down the road, they go, oh my God, do you know, and they start reading Jacques Ballet and Keel and like all sorts of other, yeah. - Jacques Ballet is kind of like the Isaac Newton of euphology, right? - How do you mean? - Newton changed our understanding. He took the laws of motion and he sort of made the celestial and brought it bound to earth and connected the two with this really solid theory that can be built upon. And Newtonian mechanics still work for the most part. You know, you can build an entire civilization off of Newtonian mechanics. But Newton was also really interested in alchemy. He spent most of his writing was about, you know, solving the secret biblical texts and stuff like that. And he had, and this, he was interested in this hidden divine order. - I didn't know that. - Unknowing reality, that was Newton. He was fascinating. That was his whole mission in life was to uncover this hidden divine order, which Valet also has helped us to understand the phenomenon in a new way by saying, human consciousness is being impacted by what he called a non-human control system, right? Which I'm a fan. I take that as a baseline. And I say that Valet is like Newton because these theories are 50 years old. John Keel, Valet, these are fantastic connections. There's a wonderful dots that have been strung together into a really interesting pearl necklace. That necklace needs to be shattered. Those pearls need to be rearranged into an Einsteinian understanding. - Right. - There's another level to this phenomenon that is waiting to be cracked open. We're waiting for the Einstein interpretation. Einstein looked at Newton's stuff, looked at the clockwork, was also interested in a divine order. Eventually he said God doesn't play dice. But he took the speed of light and said, that's a fundamental aspect of the universe that can't be broken. In fact, space and time bend around the observer to create this different realities, depending on who the observer is and what speed they're traveling in. But the speed of light is this sort of fundamental envelope, which all of space and time revolves around and the observer plays a fundamental part in how we see the universe. And I think that we're waiting for that kind of architecture to be applied to the work of valet, the work of Keel, the idea that this, you know, Keel thought that this intelligence was ancient, that the extraterrestrial hypothesis itself was the Trojan horse that the flying saucer sort of rode in on. It's sort of sneaking in under this guise of space being. - Of whatever we want it to be. - Yeah, and also fairies or demons or ghosts and that there was this all encompassing intelligence. And that was sort of the secret according to Keel. And I think both of those things are kind of true. - Yeah, and they're based in some form on, you know, you touch this, you touch on this in your book as well, but like Madame Blavatsky and whole theosophy movement and you know, everything is sort of derived there. And even like, you know, Jacques Valet was famously and so was Jay Allen Heineck, rose accrucian. - Right. - And so, you know, there is this tie to like her metacism to these ancient orders of, you know, science, if you will. - Blavatsky and the theosophyists were trying to connect with a higher intelligence through their spiritual practices. And that could go as far as sort of the rose accrucian or the golden dawn type of technology, the magical technologies, you know, designed. - The altamy, yeah. - To open us up to a, basically a non-human in form of intelligence or a higher intelligence and the theosophyists called them the ascended masters. But they opened the door in the, you know, turn of the century and then that crept up into the thirties and the forties of the 1920s with Alice A. Bailey. They were connecting with the, what they called the Mahatmas, which were these hidden masters that lived in remotest Tibet and that they had these sort of celestial sort of abilities. And then that transformed into hidden masters, not even living on earth or living in vanusian realms or in some higher plane of existence and that we could connect with them telepathically. - Yeah. - And that laid the groundwork for the contactee movement. - Yeah, venus, Jupiter even, like all the plants Saturn, they were coming from cars, all these planets. - From our solar system, impinging on us down here, telling us to, you know, clean up our act. They're basically here to save us from ourselves. And the theosophyists really laid the groundwork for this whole idea that you can telepathically communicate with these non-human intelligences that looked suspiciously human that they were, you know, very, they looked like, you know, Scandinavian models, getting off their spaceships in the desert, which is really strange. And I was trying to comport the fact that we do have really strong accounts of these not just humanoid, but human-esque beings that could pass for you and me, that could walk down the street and that these are the same beings that were reported by the contactees, which I don't put a lot of credence into. - You don't until you realize that like, 'cause I'm of the same ilk, I think, where, okay, I don't know if we're actually dealing with tall blonde people in spandex. - Right. - But then, you'll speak to someone who looked you dead in the eye, who's never been interested in this stuff in their life, never blink, never batting eye in this direction. And they break down because they're telling you about a time where they were out of Chipotle and there's eight-foot tall couple stared and talked to him in his head, and it changed everything for him. - If you were ever thinking about picking up some Area 52 merch, but you were waiting for the right moment, now is that time we are currently running our back to college sale, 20% off all invisible college merch. - Right in time for the fall, get those comfy sweaters. We got sweaters, hoodies, cardigans, t-shirts, hats. notebooks, you name it, 20% off all Invisible College merch, while supplies last for a limited time go to area52.shop. Meet new grippy setting mist from Maybelline, New York. Gel to mist technology locks in your look for up to 24 hours, with flexible all-day comfy grip. Just plum, dewy, hydrated skin. That still feels like your skin. Try new grippy setting mist from Maybelline, New York. Maybe it's Maybelline. 1942, the guy who had an experience with a human-esque tall blonde, longer hair. Udil, Udil, Udil, or Tana. Right, Udil. In the Montana foothills, actually. That's right. These accounts do exist. I believe them. I really do. I think that there are two varied. When we start looking into this stuff, there's even, there's a wonderful account from just a couple of years ago that we could get into later that happened in Brazil, that Pavel from Psychoactivo turned me on to. Oh, yes. Yes, with it being the blood. Yeah, they're Dr. Paul Pirata. Yeah, they're doing tests on his blood now. Right, well, they've done the tests. Are they, are the results back? Yeah, the results have come back. They are fascinating. Can you give us a brief rundown of what that story is? There was like an injured being, right? If I'm not mistaken, I'm a little foggy on. Right, so 2019, I think is the year that the worst wildfires in Bolivia, all over South America, they're the worst they'd ever seen. I mean, the whole damn country was burning down. They lost millions of animals, thousands of indigenous tribes. It was a disaster. The worst one that South America had had at the time. Unfortunately, there was an even worse fire in 2024. So this is the heart of our planet. These are the heart and lungs of our planet. The rainforest is now being, we kind of know now that that rainforest is a man-made thing that some ancient civilization actually created the soil, which is the richest soil on the planet. That's a technology. That rainforest is an ancient technology that's been created. And now, of course, we're burning it down. But I could see how non-human intelligence might be interested in that part of the planet. A ton of reports come out of Brazil. I mean, most of life is there. If you look at the number of living things on the planet, like most of it is there, right? It's the birthplace over the cauldron of life on this planet sort of erupting out of this thing. It's a gorgeous piece of, it's a jewel of the universe, I would think, you know? I would agree. And Dr. Paul Perotta was a young man who had volunteered to be a first aid guy. And he had a cabin out in the middle of nowhere on the edge of the wildfires, towards the end of their reign, right? So the wildfires were kind of burning down. They were still being fought in a few areas. Firemen were coming out. They brought people in from all over the world to try to get a handle on this fire. So it wasn't uncommon to see Europeans or people from everywhere. The French, a lot of people from the UK had come in, firefighters, volunteers. There was cholera was running rampant. The animals were all burnt in the death. They didn't have water. The water had been poisoned by the ashes that was falling into it. And so people were doing what they could. And Perotta was, you know, like all of those guys would work in shifts. They'd work for like three days straight until they couldn't stand anymore. And then a truck would come and pick them up and take them away. So it was his last night there. He stepped outside to grab a smoke. He was about 11 o'clock at night and he sees a white man coming up the trail in the middle of nowhere. The firemen are all deep into the forest. But he's figuring this is a, one of the firefighters that had come to help. And as he, the guy gets closer, he's tall. He's got longer blonde hair and he's wearing a skin tight spandex style outfit as you would in the rainforest. As you would. And it had these stripes on him. Silver, silver like Morse code, like a line and a dot and then a line. And they were sort of all over his uniform. And he's thinking, Perotta, he's singing out of these Europeans. They've got the best firefighting gear. And he had a blanket on. And the blanket was a local blanket with like a print of a tie leopard on it or something. Perotta remembers that. It's this guy wearing this fancy outfit. Well, wear it with this Bolivian popular at the time, tighter print blanket around his shoulders. And he came up and Perotta's like, how can I help you? And he says, I've been, I've been injured. And he says, oh, come inside. Let's take a look at it. And they walk into this little shack where which was repurposed as his first aid kit. He's like, have a seat, tell me what's going on. And the guy pulls down his uniform and he pulls his arm out and he's got a gash on his arm that goes from here to here, bleeding like crazy. And the first thing Perotta noticed was that none of the blood was on his uniform. That somehow his arm was bleeding fiercely. But none of the blood was on his uniform, which was spotless. And he's like, oh, man, how did you do that to yourself? And the guy looked at him and in Perotta's mind, he hears the words, it was a baby Puma and Perotta freezes. And he's like, did that guy just talk to me in my mind? And then the guy puts a hand on his shoulder and goes, calm down, everything's gonna be okay. In his mind and Perotta just loses it in them. And he's like, thinking, how do I get out of here? This guy's obviously, I don't know what he is, but I need to get the hell out of here. There's nobody's around, he's in the middle of nowhere. And he eventually, the guy just says, listen, you know, so Perotta goes over to the first aid kit and he stitches this guy's arm up. And as he's stitching his arm up, he realizes the guy's got no body hair, not anywhere. And he looks at his face and he's not clean shaven. He doesn't have hair on his face. And he does that. I think it takes him 40 minutes of something like a long time. But he finally gets it done. He gives him a little baggy. He's like, listen, you need to take care of this, take these pills, but there's another place that can help you way better than I can. So when you're ready to get the stitches out, go somewhere else. - Yeah. - And the guy goes, the human esk goes, don't be afraid of what you're going to see next. And Perotta's like, okay. And he looks around and he grabs a pair of medical scissors and he puts them in his up his sleeve. And he goes, okay. And the guy opens the door and right outside the shack is a UFO with all his lights off. Dark gray, silent with no lights on. Just hanging above the trees. Or saucer? - A saucer, around saucer. And below the saucer are two little humanoids like grays, but they were greenish and they didn't have big heads. They had big black eyes, normal size or proportionally sized heads, but the, and their skin was a little greenish, and they were wearing the same outfit as our man. And Perotta starts kind of walking with these, with this guy. And sort of lets the guy get ahead and gets under the thing. And then he, and then he sort of says, okay, I'm going back inside. And the guy turns around under the spaceship with standing there with his two buddies. And in his mind, he goes, thank you, Paul. And he hadn't said his name. He hadn't told the guy what his name was. And Paul, Perotta ran back in there, slammed the door. And stayed in there all night, terrified that they were going to come back and take him away. Or, you know, that, that we're going to kidnap him and take him to another planet. Or I mean, he was losing his mind. He kept this story to himself for a long time, but he couldn't sleep at night. And he started having these dreams. And in the dreams, he was in a white room. And in the white room was our guy. And he was being operated on. And he had these little dudes were there. And he keeps having these dreams. And he's freaking out. And he tells his wife, his wife's like, you're losing your mind. He doesn't interview with somebody, I think, from Argentina. And that gets picked up and goes all around South America. His boss fires him, loses his job. His wife is, they have a baby on the way or a second baby on the way. And his wife's like, what the hell are you doing, you know? And he really, it was sort of the dark night. the soul for pirata. He couldn't live with it and he couldn't live without it. So he started going, he started reaching out, he started telling his story. And JJ, the Spanish researcher, I'm going to forget his last name, but his name is JJ. He's a famous guy. He's like the Jacques Valle of Spain. He reached out and he said, I'm flying over there. I want you to show me everything. And so he does. And the pirata takes him to the shack. He's there with his guys. He tells him the whole story. And then pirata says, you know, I still got those cotton balls. He had a guy's like, yeah, I've got the gods. I saved it. I've got that guy's blood. And so JJ said, I've got the means to have this stuff tested. So we gave him some of the blood, not all of it. And they had it tested over about six months. And this was only like in 2024 or something that they finally got this stuff tested. And it turns out that it's the DNA is completely human. But the it's female, the chromosome chromosomes, there are no male chromosomes in the in the blood. So this somehow they were genetically engineered to be female, even though this was clearly a masculine muscular guy without any facial hair. Was there anything else that was peculiar about the blood? Yeah. It was immortal. The blood cells on the gods didn't decay. They didn't turn black. They didn't get crusty the way they were fresh. They were fresh as as the day still they're still as fresh as the day as they as they as they came out of as they as he found them on that day. No way. Very interesting. And they say maybe there's some sort of nanotechnology in there or some sort of bio preservatives, preservatives, some sort of you know, some sort of genetic anomaly that they've engineered to sort of make this blood immortal. Now bacteria is immortal. You know single celled organisms, they've been around forever. They divide and divide and divide and they sort of they sort of have no they don't carry information so that they're they've been immortal on the planet forever. And maybe they're able to use something like that and blend them together. I have no idea. But if their blood is immortal, they're probably immortal. Yeah, that's the that's the next conclusion. Which means that the same beings that are interacting with us today could have been the same beings that have been interacting with us for thousands of years. It could be Ashtar right there. That is such a remarkable story and so recent because you I mean what was the last time you'd heard about flying saucers with a tall blonde Swedish guy. I wasn't prior to 1975. Like I mean yeah. And that was a setup. That guy that came out of the forest. Yeah, I've got a gash on my own. I think so too. That was my that was my next conclusion. Like this was a donation. That's right. Clearly. This was a donation. A baby Puma. What? Yeah. We talk. That's the best you can come up with. Peretta had JJ had several labs test the blood. And all of that and somehow all of that has sort of gotten brushed under the rug. Peretta stopped coming out. He stopped talking. Pavel our friend Pavel says that the queen of England may have got the queen of Spain may have gotten involved somehow. Weird. I have to speak to Pavel about it. Yeah, I really should. He's looked into he's done some interesting research and he did the translations of the interview. That's how I found the case. Yes. And I write about it in the book because I think it's the most fascinating case and maybe the most consequential case clearly with a donation to have come about. And then, you know, there that goes on. We can get into that another time. But the experiences the Peretta had on the craft with these beings. He actually he was freaking out. They were in in that white room. He said, listen, this has got to end. My life is, you know, his dreams. Yes. I know this isn't a dream. I'm waking up with bruises on me. I wake up with stuff, you know, I know what you guys are doing. And you got to stop because my life has fallen apart. And they said, give us three days. They say, come with us. We're going to work with you for three days. And then we'll let you go and we'll never we'll never bother you again. And he, you know, he kind of didn't really have a choice. And he did. So he he went onto the craft or an underground wherever, wherever the hell for three days or three days. And he swears by this. Absolutely. Oh my god. Yeah. Oh, and the stuff that they talk about is rather shocking. I have to look into this case a little more. That's very interesting. Rather amazing. Well, go give a go. Give Pavel a follow if you're listening. I mean, he's got a lot of interesting stuff that he covers as well. Yeah, psychoactive. Right. Thank you. Some of the cases that are coming out of South America and worldwide are really worthy of studying. This is a worldwide phenomenon. Yeah. And we're obviously it feels to me that we're entering a new phase, not only in our own sort of awakening, but in in the interactions, you know, where we are now being sort of we're gradually leveled up. We've leveled up. Thank you. Wow. In very interesting case. I mean, and no shortage of interesting cases are covered in this book. I can tell you a fan of Preston Danette as am I. Yeah. Because you include these obscure cases. And this one, maybe not so obscure, but there are some very obscure ones that I do want to like bring up because I'm every chapter I was delighted to learn about a new encounter. And these are like not just, oh, I saw a triangle at which I'm not a discounting that's important. That's obviously life changing, but a few that stuck out to me was was a few that stuck out to me were a Joseph Wanderke from Vienna, Austria in 1955. So he this man was like riding his bike, sees these lights, think coming down and he's thinking, oh, there's a plane or something, somebody's crashing, you know, the the war ended maybe a decade before. Yeah, yeah. And then Austria, it was in Austria, it was a German Austrian. The Europe was in Tatters, you know, the social unrest was pretty high. And Joseph was a young man, I think he was 27 years old, jobless, pissed off. Really, one of those kind of angry, you know, socialists, right, at the world. And he was driving through a forest path and he used to spend his days riding around on his moped. I was a moped, that's right. Because he's really just, you know, probably trying to tame the demons in his mind, you know, he was driving around and he sees a glint in the forest. And so he leaves the path and he drives over and there's this 30-foot silver disc sitting in a clearing in the middle of the forest. And the door was open and the ramp was down. And it was like a 12-foot ramp and this six-foot-wide door. And Joseph, for whatever reason, drives his moped right up the ramp and into the craft, where these six beings are waiting for him there. Now, he doesn't say this, but I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't sort of telepathically sort of coax him onto that craft. I don't know. Sure. Maybe he just got a bite. Yeah, what would compel you to do this? But then again, we don't know. Maybe that's just a quirk that Joseph has. Maybe. And these beings were childlike. They were, yeah, they look like children. Yeah. And not big heads, not grays, you know, they were basically looked like 10-year-old children, really. They had blonde hair. They had this weird silken sort of inflated rough as a collar. They had mittens on, which were sort of these gloves, but with fingerless gloves. And they started talking to him in perfect Austrian German. And he's like, how the hell did you guys learn where you guys from? And they said, we have come from the highest peaks of Cassiopeia. And then he realized, oh my god, like these are, these are like space people. So he's like, how do you guys know German? And he's like, we learned it. And then he starts telling them all about, he's like, oh my god, look at you. You're obviously like, got some shit figured out. Are you here to help us? Are you here to help save Europe? Yeah, he starts telling them about Hitler, about the war. and right, right. And then they're like, "Now we didn't come here to interfere in any way in your terrestrial matters. We just came here to observe and check it out." But they were like, "Tell me about this machine you're driving. It's really interesting. How does it work?" So they got it. Joseph to describe the basics of a combustion engine to these space people. And then Joseph says like the little cabin he was in. There was no instrumentation. He couldn't see any chairs. It was just empty in there. But it was filling up with the smell of like warm oil from his moped. A pocket of story, Joseph started raging about the state of the world and how the industrialists were taken over. And the poor were living the rich were living off the back. So these poor people. And they said, "Yeah, but you must know yourself how to fix these matters. And if you want to start, you know, you know that a revolution can be started and you can change all of that. But you got to do it yourself." And then as he was pleading with them, as Joseph tells it, the being started to cry. They started to weep with empathy for his rage, his socialist rage at the world. And then Joseph got really embarrassed while seeing these little space beings crying for him in this little cabin. And he got really uncomfortable and he says, "Okay, well, I should probably leave. I should probably go." And he bowed and they bowed and he took his moped and drove down the ramp and left. And then regretted it for the rest of his life, kicked himself. Like, "Why didn't I leave? Why did I start telling these folks to fix my planet? This is like the first thing out of my mouth. I'm like, you're space fit." And make him cry. Yeah. And they start weeping. Oh, no. And it's at the sorry state of who he was and where he was. And the life on earth and the whole thing is fascinating to me, you know, that they'd have these interactions. And I think that in a lot of ways, a lot of the beings that aren't here for, you know, other purposes, do come here to experience, you know, to check us out, to check out life on earth. Yeah, little visitors, little tourists on us. If we could take a tour of Rome, you know, like I would do it in a heartbeat. I would be the greatest tour in the world. Just to walk around, just to see how somebody lived their life for one day. That's true. And walk the streets, you know, of Rome or Greece, you know, and go see a play in the amphitheatre. It's like, that would be nuts. Like, some beings have that ability. I'm sure they can do that. Yeah, that's probably, you know, where that big wave in the mid 60s and 70s was like, that's, you know, you mentioned this in your book as well, but like, there are these two types of beings. There are the beings that the inconsequential sort of pass or bias. Yeah. And then, yeah, the transience, as you call them. And then the other ones who, you know, are a little bit more intrinsically linked to us. I think so. For one agenda or another, whether it's our benefitter there. So I don't know, but yeah, we don't know. Yeah. But it seems to be that we have so many hundreds of different species or counts or descriptions throughout decades. Thousands maybe. Yeah. And yet the, the guys that showed up around when the abduction era started, the, the, the, the, the great, now there's a ton of different kinds of gray aliens out there, which gets confusing for people. Because when you say a gray, we're not really sure. We don't have a photograph. So we can't really tell what which gray they're talking about. Genderless, they naked or they have a suit. Well, colors suit. They tall. They short big head, small head, lips, no lips, like all these same is true for the human esk guys. There's not just tall blonde, you know, eight foot tall Calvin Klein model types. Now, there's these other types as well. There's some. The ones with Joe Simonton, who gave him the, you know, who wanted the pale of water and the pancakes. They were like Italian race car drivers. He put it in turtlenecks, you know, with like all of colored skin and like, yes, some have dark skin, some have longer noses. Yeah. Um, I want to count. I can't remember who, but they, the, the human esk types were tall. They had giant chins. Right. They were really skinny with these giant chin. There's some natives looking as well. Like more, um, yeah. And then there's other blonde human asks, but shorter, not, not seven or eight feet tall, um, with smaller eyes, a little bit old. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Higher foreheads. Yeah. Jesse Roastonberg saw them. Yeah. And they also, yeah, with the, with the fish bowl right on their head. And this truck driver, I think from Argentina was abducted by them for, yes, 70s. Yes. There was multiple. There was like three of them that took him and they'd they experimented on him. Yeah. It was quite horrific. Yeah. Yeah. And it sparked the whole nationwide debate. Yeah. Whether we were being surveilled by space beings. Yeah. So there's different types of human esks. There's different types or species. I don't know what to call them. Of gray. There's different types of praying mantis. Yeah. You know, there's, they've been reported since the 50s. I think even Leonard Stringfield. That's right. Some, some, some of these praying mantis types, but there's like white praying mantises. There's shorter praying mantises. There's like the really tall ones that are super skinny. There's ones that look more like insects and others that look more like praying mantis as well. Like there's like the like the insectalins or, you know, and they always, those are those are really interesting to me because, you know, there is a seeming hierarchy to this, even though it might only be perceivably in some cases, the case, I don't think it's across the board, but it seems like there is this hierarchy where at least a portion of these grays seem to be biosynthetically engineered, sort of these drones. That's right. And then, you know, the step up from that is like the taller grays. And then the step up from that is perhaps these human looking ones. And then behind the veil, are these like robed tall, eight-foot tall terrifying, you know, insect that have the most psychic capability. It would seem that can show up in DMT. Exactly. These seem like the oldest race. Like these are the ones that have been around for a long time. They have the most incredible technology. Yeah, I like the, there's a Canadian story about this chick named Joyce Halferin who was in, I think in the 80s, I think at 89, she was abducted by a couple of different praying mantis types. Really? But one type that were like seven feet tall, super skinny little heads. Oh, yeah, you talk for this new book. I did read this. Yes. They took her up into a ship that they called a light ship. And the light ship, you know, she, she, she, they told her sort of a little bit about their technology. And they said, your space program is doomed to fail. But one day, your physicist will work out how to use light to travel between dimensions. They said that light at the end of the tunnel that you see in a near death experience, we use that to travel. And you're going to learn how to do that without dying. You don't have to die to get there. And once you shake off old ideas about space, time and death. Whoa. Yeah. So there's the dimensional aspect to these praying mantis folks that really fascinate me. But I'm not sure how we can hierarchy. I'm not sure about the high. Yeah. I don't, it's a perceivable hierarchy. I don't think it is. And I think we have a very limited understanding due to the encounters that we've had. And then there's the reptiles. Yeah. That's a whole other thing. It's a whole other thing. But these four, I call them clades, because they are. They're clades of aliens. And there, and there's a reptilian clade. There's the insectilian clade. There's the gray clade. And there's the humanesque clade. Yeah. And they out of those clades, one type of humanesque being one type of praying mantis, or insectilian, which is a praying mantis. And then one type of gray, which appears to be the biosynthetically created sort of drones. And then, you know, they appear to be this loose confederation that is impacting our society for reasons unknown. Right. And that's what I'm trying to figure out. Yeah. And it's difficult because any one of these could be masquerading as another. And for all we know, which should make it impossible. The masters of genetic engineering. Sure. So we don't know who's creating. Who? Yeah. You know, a lot of them use these little grays. So I think we're pretty safely can say that the gray, g-r-a-y alien is a biosynthetic drone. Yeah, at least for the most part. For the most part. Yeah. Now there are grays that are biological, but these drones. owns that are used in the abduction program, used in a lot of other areas. The reptiles have them, the human-esque work with them. They're seeing all the time in abduction scenarios. And the praying mantis is also. So whether they're all using the same brand of gray alien or they're all creating their own, we don't know. I would probably lean towards that. I don't think I would, I would think it kind of silly to impose capitalism on these things and be like, there's a whole factory. You can just go purchase your own grays. I think it. P26's. Yeah. They probably are developing whatever they need for the needs of the mission is my guess. You know, when you look at these craft and you, you hear about a lot of them, like you said, they're barren, there's nothing going on, there's no photos hanging on the wall, there's no kitchen, there's no toilet. There are, you know, for all intense purposes, even Matt Brown talks about the idea of them being made to purpose or built to spec. And I would assume the technology, which are these guys, they're also a technology. And I think they're also built to spec depending on the mission. Using our own genetics to build them. And what I always find interesting is like, but in whose image are they built? Do you know what I mean? There has to be, like that, is that a random choice that everyone's agreed on? That like, oh, this is the least frightening thing that we could use? Like, because that doesn't seem fitting. Do we factor into their decision to create grays look the way they do? Or are they just utilitarian and the look the way they do? Because there's a reason for genetics for them for their own purposes. Yeah. Or are they based off something? Are they built in the likeness of some other being that turned out to be, you know, maybe really optimal being for this planet? I don't know. There's an interesting, Aaron Schultz was abducted several times in the 90s by gray, greenish gray aliens that looked just like the grays, but they said their skin was slightly greener. And he said that they told him that they were us from the future. Yeah. I've heard that a few times. So are we, you know, so are they creating these grays because they're in our image? Thank you. Yeah. I mean, you know, Dr. Michael Masters has a whole literal dissertation on that. Like, he wrote his thesis on, you know, the cranial morphology of humans into these grays. Right. And it makes sense. And that might happen on several different planets, you know, and I like the theory that they're from red dwarfs or a system with a red dwarf is a very long lifespan. So most of the red dwarfs we know, you know, the sun is too volatile for life, but that might not be true in every case. And there's trillions of suns out there. So maybe that grays morphology is something that all humanoid beings start to develop into as the sun dies over millions of years. Maybe as you go underground, you know, also your eyes get larger and the underground hypothesis is also a good one. Yeah. It's very interesting to look at their morphology specifically and then try to reverse engineer from a paleontology standpoint or anthropology standpoint. Was there a plethora of alien planets where insects became the dominant intelligent life form and those praying mantis really are insects? Well, yeah. And Stephen Bassett mentions this as well, which I thought was interesting because if you look at lizards, the reptilians, you look at the mantids, you look at the Nordics. What do they all have in common? You can find them all on earth. Are we all sharing DNA? Is this a cosmic zoo that we're all, this DNA pool that we're all pulling from? Are we all just part of the same family? Yeah. I mean, they are living here. We do see little versions of all of these, you know, it might turn out that on these alien planets spread out across galaxies, millions, billions, trillions of life-giving worlds, they all share the same. And we're sharing basic genetics. I would, that's my running theory for everything is that these are all just trillions of petri dishes that are at different stages of evolution. And the universe is using the same building blocks all over the place and why not? Yeah, I mean, if you were an advanced species and you've gotten through the trials of wanting to wage war and all of that, you've gotten past all that. And now you're at the point of your existence where you want to go out and spread life and maintain a nurture life throughout the universe. You, first of all, you wouldn't take over a planet that's dead and live underground. That seems useless. You would go to a green, nice sort of planet with water or whatever the conditions are. But you would find quickly that those conditions don't actually suit you. You would die from something, the nitrogen levels, the radiation, something's off. And so you would still have to live in a suit. And so instead, let's take the native species that lives here, let's genetically modify it with our DNA. Let's bring some stuff from this planet, these little cephalopods, change them a bit, put them in this ocean, take that, do this, and do that everywhere. You could do that. But at the same time, I wouldn't do it, I wouldn't waste my time if I'm this really intelligent being. I would have AI do it. And so I would put these Van Neumann probes in the oceans and let them figure it out. And maybe there's a tripwire system there eventually when these things ascend to a higher consciousness or when they blow themselves up, then we send in the reinforcements and let's calm down and you could do some serious terraforming. Yes. Exactly. Or pan spermia or like controlled pan spermia. Yeah. Yeah. And all of that might be going on. And at the same time, this biosis that's happening all over the universe has the same non-local essence that a morphogenetic field to use Rupert Sheldrake's hypothesis is a non-local impulse that writes itself into being everywhere. And so all of the different conditions on different planets would change that morph, that chemical soup in slightly different ways. I see. But the biosis, the impulse, the life, the carbon, you know, we're one, our scientists are wondering, you know, maybe silicon, maybe, but that would, I would count that as a silicon based life form, maybe a shadow biosphere that may exist alongside. We don't know how many overlapping biosis spheres there are. But we do know that this one appears to be sharing the same basic building blocks. That's why, abduct the abduction phenomenon. That's why we can crossbreed. That's why these creatures look an awful lot like they have earth analogies. Yeah. I mean, they're bipedal, frontward facing eyes. They have digits on their hands. Right. Like, these are all very specific triggers. And those were not starting from scratch. And that, and scientists on our planet right now, and why not? Why wouldn't we think this? Have started that somehow life began as this freak accident, lucky lightning bolt hits a warm pond. Somehow this chemical soup springs into life and starts evolving, using natural selection, the conditions of our planet as we're changing the conditions and then that, you know, in this feedback loop, you know, the planet freezes over, then the planet, you know, warms up and this process begins and it's been going on for four and a half billion years. But that same process could be going on in all of these different planets together, sharing the morph, in other words, an evolutionary sort of, you know, a new, a new evolutionary level is reached on one planet. You can sh- that new way of putting life together, non-locally spreads to all the other planets. Like the five-minute mile or whatever that was, you know, one person does it, all of a sudden that everybody can do it. And we could extrapolate that to include the universe. That's- that's a very interesting hypothesis. And, you know, why not? You can go. You can go. I mean, there seems to be something. Watch and setting your makeup, then forgetting it's even theirs. No tightness, no stickiness, no residue, just plum, dewy, hydrated skin that still feels like your skin. Try new, grippy setting mist from Mavily New York. One interesting part of your book was a chapter based on the name of the book, The Watchguard. And it was Donald, I'm going to say this wrong, Shaw Cross in Slane'sville, West Virginia, 1982, a wonderful encounter with a all-knowing sort of creature that claims to be almost like a protector of this planet, or perhaps- Perhaps this AI system that I spoke of or something that is keeping an eye. Can you tell us a little bit about that and why you chose that for the title of the book? Shaw Cross is a really interesting case and I stumble across these things looking through old flying saucer reviews and where we have that in common. There's nothing better than an old UFO magazine. And if you've seen the ones from Sweden and yeah, those are fantastic. Stories lost is a great YouTube channel that they do all the time. I'm familiar. Yeah, they just really artistic, wonderful work in recreating some of these lost cases that are dug up in these old UFO magazines from Sweden, from Norway, from Denmark, you know, from all over the UK, really. But Shaw Cross is, I think, probably found that through Preston Dennett who is the goat as far as a zineologist goes. Yeah. He's a full on. I'm a moonlight zineologist. He's a full, a tenured zineologist. Yeah, I've got a stack of his books right there like so many years and really if anyone is interested in sort of trying to wrap their mind around the phenomenon, it has to start with the actual accounts that have been going on for decades. And you can find through people like Preston, through people, the old UFO journals and all the researchers out there, they're looking for where the rubber hits the road because that's where we're going to find answers in my opinion or at least dots that we can start to put together and see where that takes us. So Shaw Cross, he was a night shift guy and he was four o'clock in the morning getting off. I think he was working at a hospital or something and he lived in a trailer home in Virginia in the middle of nowhere and he is a wife and a kid and he comes home and he opens the door and his cats try to run out, pass him right away. They're like tearing at the screen door. He's like, whoa, what's going on? So he looks outside. He figures maybe there's an animal out there and he sees what looks like a plane going down in the field behind his house. So he wakes up his wife, he says, call the cops, there's going to be a plane crash. And he runs outside, he jumps in his car and there's an old dirt road behind the field, he drives back there, his car dies. He doesn't think much of it. He gets out with his flashlight and he starts walking through the weeds with his flashlight and he comes across a pair of silver boots and he boots his flashlight up and he thinks it's the pilot of the airplane that just crashed. This is no pilot. It's this guy with a silver suit on. He's got a staff in his arms, you know, like a four foot long staff he's holding. He's got a helmet on, you can't really see his eyes. And he's like, are you okay with L.A.U. And the guy starts communicating telepathically in Donald's mind instantly, instantly blew his mind and he's like, and he realizes this is a, you know, that's a flying saucer and this is a dude from space, it's a space being and he goes, why are you made yourself known to the world? And the guy says, we are known. And he's like, well, what are you doing here? And he says, I'm the watch guard. And he's like, what do you, what do you, they start having this telepathic conversation where this space being says that we're not taking care of our nuclear waste properly, that we're screwing up the planet, that there's, we can do this much better. And then he's like, and I'll, I can show you how to do this kind of stuff. And then he starts telling Donald about the hidden technologies that are hidden in the underneath the sphinx. He starts telling him about the pyramids. They have this long conversation and I listen to a version of it in the book because it's rare that you get these sort of like in-depth conversations with these space people. They're usually pretty coy. And this guy is too, but it's changed Donald's life, you know, as he's talking to this space being, he suddenly realizes that his feet are not touching the ground. And he starts to panic because he's been floating along with this guy toward the craft, which was like a little purple light off of the distance when he stopped parked his car. And now it's sort of like a few feet away and it's a classic flying saucer with a big inner tube around the side and it's got lights that are spinning around. And it's got purple light coming off of it. Donald's pissing himself, he's thinking this is really bad because now this, the door starts opening up, you know, and he's like, this guy's going to take me on board the craft. And I want to disappear and then never come back. But his feet touch the ground and the guy starts walking up the ramp alone and he turns around and goes, I'll be back. And he gets in the craft and the door closes, the craft lifts up and it takes off across the mountains. And by the time he got back to his place, the cops had shown up. So he tells them the whole story, he's burnt the cop. They interview the cop. The cop said, yeah, one half of his face was sunburned. Yeah. His hand and his face from that purple light that had come out of the craft, whatever that was. That's the counter of the second kind. Yeah. They didn't find any radiation on Donald, although he was burnt. And he, the cops, of course, said, you know, I don't know. The guy was obviously freaked out when I showed up, but there was nothing in the field. And I don't know this guy. I mean, you know, he could be some nut. But that experience sent Donald changed his life, you know, as it does with so many, so many people. He changes, it's just everything just turned upside down for him from that moment on. Well, it was a great barker, I think, came out and interviewed him and said, this is the most credible encounter case that I've come across. The guy from New York came down and gave him a full light detector test, which he passed with flying colors. The New York guy said, well, he believes it, you know, whatever happened, he really believes it. And then, Donald got obsessed with the pyramids and the sphinx and trying to crack that mystery for the rest of his life, you know, what's in there? And I call it, and the, so I basically, I call the book the watch guard because I think that that's a part of what's going on, you know. I think that these, this small group, this one, one group of human-esque, this one group of praying mantis, we don't know much about the reptiles, but they keep showing up. And then the grays are this confederation that is here as a kind of a watch guard. I think that they are guarding the gates to the cosmos. I think that there's two factions of watch guards. I think that's the alien faction and that the human faction is also hiding the craft, hiding the bodies, rushing away the evidence, the trail that leads to them. And they're in cahoots. And it's possible. It's possible. In fact, the more I look into this, the more I can't see how it cannot be possible. Yeah, that there is an intersection of human and alien forces that are working together in some capacity to manage humanity's access to technologies that are literally otherworldly and then have the power to destroy worlds, worlds. And also with that included in that power is the power to traverse the galaxy to go anywhere, to do anything. And you know, we just don't quite have our shit together enough to be able to handle that kind of stuff. And there's a little bit of a prime directive going on there. There has to be. I always feel like, you know, because when you look at Star Trek and you go to the prime directive was, okay, we don't interfere with planets that don't have warp drive. That's always been the case. And when they develop warp drive, then it's like, welcome to the family. And if you consider nukes being warp drive, which I don't, you know, I think that's when we would have had contact, but the more I, the more that I look at this stuff, the more that I realized that the prime directive is don't interfere until they get rid of the nukes. Yeah. Like that for me seems like the threshold of finally, now you get it. What have they been telling us for the past hundred years? Get rid of your nukes. What are you doing? Right. Don't play with this stuff. You know, don't play with this energy. Don't play with this. This is bad. You're going to kill yourselves. You're going to kill it. It's happened before. It'll happen again. Like all these warnings point to the prime directive. be in the next video. don't interfere in a limited capacity, at least, until they get rid of the nukes. And then you look at JFK trying to do that in some capacity right before he was assassinated. - Yeah. - And that's what Shawcross was told by the watch guard, you know, you don't know how to handle, you're not doing it right, you don't know how to handle that stuff. - The second we get rid of those is probably when we get the landings. - The watch guard did say we use nuclear power. - Sure, but we use it, you know, we know how to use it. - Yeah, not to kill people. - Yeah, get rid of the nukes. - We know how to properly, you know, manage these kind of incredibly powerful technologies. And I think that nuclear power is the entry exam to a whole new level of sub-quantum kinetics, as Paul Laviolet calls it. That will make the atom bomb look like a water balloon - Sure. - At a fourth of July, you know, I mean, we're talking, there's a guy named Chukinoff, a Russian scientist who studied plasma physics and he got really into ball lightning and create, recreating it in the lab. And he says Chukinoff, and you can go to Chukinoff energy, you know, so just Google a ball lightning hopes and fears, Chukinoff. And he has this theory, that ball lightning is a source of unlimited energy, that it's a 2D macroscopic quantum object, that he has a 2D center and a three-dimensional layer of electrons around the shell. And those electrons are constantly exchanging energy with the quantum vacuum. And then you can use that energy as an unlimited energy supply, but you can also turn it into a weapon, which is something he calls a quantum photon bomb. - Sounds lovely. - Millions of times more powerful than an atom bomb, because it taps into the vacuum sort of non-local energy and he said you could make this in your garage for 5,000 bucks. - Yeah. - The high power microwave, a crystal, an electron gun, some other stuff. And this might be the keys to the kingdom. - But I mean, you know, when you say that, it makes me kind of thankful that there are these watch guards on both the human and the non-human side. I feel like these are necessary guardrails, you know, 'cause if we're working, it's either one of two options. If we are working with a non-human component here to, I don't know, to gatekeep disclosure in some capacity, then it's either one of two things. Either one, there's like a malevolence here and it's like a control system and they wanna do it for their own benefit, their own agenda. And they have an agreement with the evil government and there's one side and the other side is, no, you'll kill yourselves and probably kill more things that you can't even see. You're hurting worlds that exist within worlds that you can't even fathom by splitting an atom. You have no idea what you're doing. And we need to babysit you and we need a group of humans to understand this. And hey, here we'll give you some tech to help you contain it because yeah, you guys are not headed in the right direction. It can't be any other way. Planets are more valuable than people. - Sure. - This is a universe that is absolutely chock full of both. So we have life at all levels of existence, but the planets themselves are jewels of the universe. So protecting those planets would be the negentropic thing to do. Be the thing that-- - There's nothing else. - Right, why wouldn't you do that? Why wouldn't you do that? And I guess that gets into another conversation, which is the thing that I, one of my biases or preconceptions was that there were good aliens and bad aliens, but as you progress up the level of technology-- - You were the bad aliens. - Yeah, that's exactly right. - Yeah, they're varying degrees of good and bad. I mean, whatever you want to put on a spectrum, if you want to do something like that, it's just you zoom out far enough and there isn't a good or bad, but we're clearly having a negative effect here. - Yeah, and that's okay. You know, that's where we're supposed to be. - I agree. - And we're supposed to be sort of waking up to this wider cosmos. It's a freedom, the cosmos recognizing what kind of universe we live in is a freedom. It's a, you could call it a god-given freedom. And we have the right to understand the universe we live in. And if we don't understand the universe we live in, then we're kind of like bowls in an invisible china shop we're smashing into shit that we don't even know exists. So that this is part of the process. - Part of the process of you call theontocalypse. (laughs) - I love that word. -ontocalypse, yeah, that's not my word, but I love the word. - Sure. - Yeah, there's gentle, you know,ontocalypse's. - Like what we're doing now. - Right, and then there's not so, not so gentle. - You know, you said something in this book, which I love a little quote here. Perhaps the greatest mystery in modern history is that of alien visitation. The second greatest mystery is why we are ignoring the greatest mystery. I love that because it is true, it sounds insane. - Yeah, it does. - To have this part of gold be presented in front of you being like, hey, this is it. This is the arc of the covenant. This is the holy grail. - Endless wonders. - Yeah, you have it all. And then for us not to even want to look at it. - Right, what's going on there? - And then also trying to recreate it elsewhere. - Right. - It's like, it's right here. - Gil Levin discovered evidence of life on Mars in the 70s with the two Viking rovers or the landers, you know, and both landers, they did five labeled release experiments on two locations. They both came up positive every single time. They ran the experiment several different ways and they all came back positive for microbial life on Mars. Now NASA, for whatever reason, decided not to go with that finding. You know, they said, well, there must be some other explanation. And Gil Levin spent the rest of his life trying to disprove his own theory, saying, okay, well, what is the other explanation? And he ran all the different chemicals and all the different experiments and all the different ways that they may have gotten some sort of false positive out of the fact that there is microbial life on Mars right now as we speak. I mean, that's the evidence. You know, then the next step would be to send another over there and do some more experiments and see if you could prove or disprove that idea. But we haven't done that yet. We have not sent another experiment. We spent a lot of money going back to Mars. Not one of them. I said, yeah, let's follow up on the crazy Gil Levin experiment, not one of them. And that tells me that there is resistance to the idea that even there might be life on one other planet. Yeah, it makes no sense that you would not go back. I mean, pants burn me, you know, that doesn't even prove that there is life in the galaxy. No, but it just gives us hope because it's the possibility. It's one more dot. But we haven't even made that dot. So what people come up and they say, "Disclosure is coming next week?" Ain't no fucking way. That's coming next week. We can't even admit that there's microbes on Mars right now. Yeah, yeah. It's going to be microbes on Mars. Then it'll be structures on Mars. And then from there, it'll be, you know, you keep it away from Earth a little bit and then eventually bring it home. But like even to the NASA point, like I find it's still strange that we barely have photos of the Earth. I don't even know why that is. Like I'm always like, wait, what? They're like, no, it's a composite. You're like, what do you mean it's a composite? Well, 'cause like the satellites are not far enough out to take a photo of the Earth. So we have to like compose them. And I'm like, okay, how many things have we sent out of orbit into deep space? Oh, quite a few. You didn't think you might want to strap one camera, one GoPro, one anything and just take a selfie. Artimists, you know, where's all the footage from Artemis? Yeah, Artemis too. Well, they took a lot of moon photos, a ton of moon photos. There's a lot of moon photos that I didn't see. I look at the Artemis photos. Yeah. These are really crappy. Yeah, there's a lot of the phone ones are pretty good, actually. The ones from the iPhone. And the guy from the iPhone is the better photos that they're not in there. Yeah, that was an incredible mission when you look at that and you're like, oh my God, slingshotting around them in. Yeah, I mean, it was amazing, you know, but where's the data? Yeah, there's a, there does seem to be like stuff that, I don't know. for what reason, but they don't want to take photos out. - I'm in time, you know, they did that in the '90s. - Yeah, I mean, the blue pearl is, you know, how old is that photo? And that's like still to this day, like over 50 years, and maybe the best photo we have, yeah. - Blue marble. - The blue marble, that's right, yeah. And, you know, I don't know. I don't know what the reasoning there is. I do find it suspicious for some reason. I don't know what the reason is, but like, part of me goes to, well, maybe there's shit around our planet, the tang and app, and that they're just like, that's gonna be a lot of airbrushing. We don't wanna do that, you know what I mean? Like, that might be it, but-- - They don't want people to be thinking in that direction. - Yeah. - I don't wanna encourage that kind of, those kind of inquiries. - Yeah, not yet, that's not part of the plan. - It's not part of the plan because once you make that leap, then you discover that there is this other technological society, more than one, but at least one, that's been building a bridge of their own technology to Earth, and we've been building our own technology, and we're sort of, and there's a gap there that we can then bridge with our technology to reach their technology, which would be a complete transformation of the way we organize and run this planet, and not just energy, but in all areas of what I like to call the human control system. And the human control system is deeply embedded in our system, it starts with school, it's media, it's the government, it's the military, and the heart of the human control system is language. Language is the baseline in operating system for all of the other control systems. It's the first thing we learn, it's the first thing that was downloaded into our heads, and it's the bridge that we use, and the only bridge we use to communicate with each other is symbolic. We don't have any other way of reaching into my head and pulling out thoughts and delivering them to you, it's through this language, and that's been crafted as a control system that can be superseded and outgrown. - Of course, yeah, it's the best modality that we have for communicating, other than perhaps like memes and videos, and all that's part of the language, you can speak with architecture, you can speak with dancing, but it's all symbols, and it all represents things. - Right, right, that's not the thing. - Exactly, and the thing itself would be the thought forms, would be the literal experience. So telepathy is not like mental radio. - No, it's sitting there. - It's emotion, it's feeling, experience. - Experience, yeah. - If you went to a concert and you saw this amazing concert, and there was a great moment there, and you met someone that you hadn't seen in years, and you wanted to share that with me, you could download that experience with all these thoughts and feelings and a 360 degree, not just your point of view, but all points of view. 'Cause that exists, that information, you could share that with me instantaneously, and that is real communication, that breaks the barrier. - Yeah, and it's simpler, yet more sophisticated. - Right, right. - You have a, and more specific, like, I'd liken it to like a, if a caveman sitting on the edge of a cliff, and looking at everything, and there's a rainbow, and there's maybe a double rainbow, and there's like a sun, or whatever. It's just the most beautiful thing he's ever seen. And, you know, I write a book about this. I write a book about the scene. It's a 900 page book describing everything, down to the smell, down to the sound of the animals, the homeostasis rhythm, and everything. It's just described perfectly in this book, but the caveman looks at it, and he just goes, ugh, right? And like, that communicates way more to me. Like, who's more intelligent? Right, me who wrote this like, giant novel, or this guy who just goes, and you get it. - And Jim Sparks, who was taught on the ship, so how to, how to condense language into a symbol, the size of a 50 cent piece. And he said there would be a whole novel of information in just the symbols that were embedded in this tiny, sort of, a symbology, the size of the piece. Exactly, that contained information, that you could then download, sort of instantaneously. - Sure, yeah. - That's incredible. - Sacred geometry and whatnot. - That is the next level to society, to communication, to sharing information. - Technology. - Technology. - Sure. - And that's a transformative event for all of us. And I think that that is one of the things that we're being sort of, you know, shied away from, that's why sci-phanomena, that's why sci-phanomena refuses to be investigated, or science refuses to investigate all of that stuff. It's more than just flippant ignorance of woo-woo stuff. We're talking about border work that's being done to guard the fortress of society. - Yeah, 'cause once that opens, it doesn't close. - And it's opening. - It's opening. - Right now. - I wanna cup a tea. - Yeah, let's get a little break. - Sure, record this. (laughing) - Yeah. - It can syncronicity, you can change your life. But opening yourself up to syncronicity is a technology. And it can be learned, you know? It can be. - I agree. - And I think that that's what the Golden Dawn was doing. And I think that that's what some of these magic were the K sort of efforts were imbuing in people. We were talking about this last night. And that's what I was thinking about last night when we were after we left. That we're probing the outer garments of something that isn't science, and it isn't religion. It's something that both religion and science have been-- - Yeah, it's fundamental. - Right, and there's a fundamental revolution in how we can understand the universe that will lead to technologies to how to utilize this fundamental essence that you were just talking about, which is defined as love. - Yeah, I have been recently in the last few years, but more specifically in the last few months, implementing synchronicity engines in my life. So I will introduce random probability, you know whether it's Bibliomancy, whether it's I have apps. So that sends me a word every hour on the hour, a word that I might not know like a new word. And sometimes that'll be incredibly synchronic. - Okay. - Nate. - Just for fun. - Yeah, give us one. - Varism. That's right now, that's the word that I just got. - What's it mean? - A style emphasizing realism and truth in art. (laughing) - Okay. (laughing) - So that'll be the name of the new technology. - Varism, yeah. So yeah, that is, I do believe that synchronicity plays an important part if you want it to, and if you let it, I think. And that's something that I've learned through my personal experiences. And it can be debated. And what's beautiful about synchronicity? What I really find genuinely like beautiful as a magician, there is a duality of the nature of synchronicity because on one side, it's coincidence. And on the other side, it's just coincidence with meaning, right? It's, we're talking about the same thing, right? You're talking about coincidence. I'm talking about synchronicity. We are literally saying the same things. Oh, you wouldn't believe this happened, whatever. It's the same thing we're talking about. Yet the interpretation of the information changes everything. - Because the observer effect. - Correct, but you're going about your life. Proving to me that it's just chance. And that will affect your life in this way. - And that's what you'll get. - Yeah, and I'm going into it thinking, I don't think it is. I think there's something more to it. But statistically on paper, they're going to look identical. You know, they'll boast, like, I mean, when someone describes a synchronicity to me, I'm like, that's the definition of a coincidence. It's the very definition of a coincidence. - Which is why it's so easy to hide. - Which is the beautiful duality of it, is that this skeptic physical materialist reality can coexist next to this, you know, fringe esoteric, spiritual, whatever reality. And they can coexist together forever. And you can live happily if you're down here or down here. You might as well take the more magical road and live a more magical life, in my opinion. - Which is why belief is the most powerful thing in the universe, you know? Because that synchronous moment opens the door for it. to be shared and create a shared experience like when you're doing your magic and you have a moment which is beyond your ability to comprehend, but it's a moment that happens with everyone and then this aggregate is created through the co-mingling of conscious observer experiences together. We're creating a third thing, whereas chance, that will never happen, that won't happen. That gets cut off at the base, even though it's the same experience, and that fostering of belief is what opens the door to this new technology. We actually need belief as a component and belief can be used as a control system, because you can believe that you'll go to hell, unless you pay off the priest with your 16-hael mayaries or whatever. Yeah, and they were even like literally paying them off, they were buying their sins back in the day, because Luther Martin Luther started with the printing press, tacking that shit up onto the church doors, saying, "This is what's going on here," and that was the beginning of the end of the church, which is why they hated the printing press. They loved it at first, and then they hated it, because they were exposing the control system that the church really was, and now science has taken over. Now we believe in science, well, I trust the science, and that becomes a control system. Yeah, it becomes a religion, but the belief is the common thread that moves through all of that, including the belief in things like synchronicity, things like sigh, Gertrude Schmidler with her sheep's and goats. The sheep's had a much higher chance of experiencing syphonomenon, whereas the goats, the non-believers, they had a much lower chance of seeing or experiencing anything like that. What's beautiful, once again, is that feeds into confirmation bias, so again, we're met with where the skeptic approach can make perfect sense, and so can the, and exactly, so they're both co-existing, and every argument you have, the other side will have an equal and opposite argument, the only metric you can have is the outcome. And so, when you have somebody living their life in a way that favors synchronicity, that favors perhaps a little bit more of a magical existence, and you see that the outcome of their life is them being genuinely content, and I'm not talking about success, I'm not talking about manifesting a yacht, I'm talking about looking at someone and realizing that this person is leading an objectively happier life, or at least a more content and fuller life, then the person who is sort of in a karmajani attitude, being skeptical about everything, and proving that everything that this person did, well, that's just BS, it's all chance. But what's not chance is that this person is living with a full heart, and this person is really looking desperately for meaning in their life, but they can coexist. You can't logic your way out of it. Yeah, but you can, you know, you can create that illusion that, like, yeah, they're the same thing, of course, but that's the beauty of it is that they do, you can prove one with the other, sure. Tying yourself to a materialist scientific viewpoint, and saying, I'm open to this stuff, I just haven't seen it because you're going to have to, you know, use, using logic, you're never going to make the leap. Yeah. There's only one way to make the leap and that's to make the leap. Sure. Yep. Yeah, and you can't package anything into, like you can't take something from another dimension, and then try to package it into this one and try to explain it away with the tools that I have developed in this dimension. You just don't have that works. We have human tools that developed here on Earth for human ends, and we're trying to use these tools to explore this alien architecture that we have little hope of grasping. Yeah. Yeah, this is the tool. I'd like to, if you're up for it, I'd like to speak about your encounter. You know, you've not talked about it much and it's something that's deeply, deeply personal at all. Yeah, I told, I've had a couple of people that I respect and admire asked me to talk about it on different podcasts, but you know, I can't talk about it, especially through the lens of an interface of a microphone and a camera. It's not something that I could share, unless I was sitting across from a human being who I trusted and was genuinely open to the possibilities, and I don't even know what all the possibilities are. I really don't, and I haven't talked about it at all. I won't say that it's sacred, it's sacred and it's profane. It marks an intersection in my life that there was no going back from. I didn't ask for it. I didn't have any concept of anything that existed outside of the little world that I had been perfectly content to believe was perfectly real, you know, and the mundane world is beautiful and there are, you know, magical things about it, there's a lot of magic in the world, but I just wasn't prepared and just wasn't prepared for any of it, you know, and it changed my life, changed my entire life, things that I was interested in, like women and art and success, none of those things mattered anymore, and I didn't know what mattered, I didn't know what did. I mean, I had my daughter, I had the core reality that I cared about and probably, if you did, if it's possible, cared more about afterwards, but yeah, from one day to the next, I got to take this jacket off, just get hot in here, yeah. Meet new grippy setting mist from Maybelline New York. But plump, dewy, hydrated skin, that still feels like your skin. Try new grippy setting mist from Maybelline New York. Yeah, okay. So 2011. 2011, man. I was married for nine something years, was getting a divorce, living alone. My daughter was with her mom, who was summer. It was probably August, probably about this time of year, and I can't sleep, I've had this problem in my whole life, and so I have this ritual when I wake up in the middle of the night. I'd usually get a couple hours, and then I'd be up in the middle of the night, and a lot of the times, I just wouldn't be able to get to sleep and was taking homeopathic stuff, which didn't really seem to do anything for me, wasn't taking melatonin, because I didn't like it. But you get up in the middle of the night, and get out of bed, the doctor said, you know, don't lay in bed. Get out of bed, go read. So this was a ritual that I would have. You get out of bed, grab a book, and lay on a couch. And so it's probably two or three o'clock in the morning, I didn't bring my phone with me, don't look at the phone, don't look at an iPad, you know, the blue light and all that stuff, so I'm laying on my couch, so I've got a window here, and I think the couch goes this way, and I've got a. I've got a ceiling that looks like this with some beams on it and the beams are running this way and my ceiling, like the widow's peak thing is over there and I'm reading my book and out of the top of my eye, I see a fuzz ball, a ball of fuzz, maybe the size of a baseball and it's fuzzy and I'm looking at it and it goes on, that's like an out-of-focus spot. What the fuck is that? And then the spot starts getting bigger and it starts leaving the wall and floating through the air as this moving ball of fuzz and as it gets closer to me, it starts to resolve into these three shapes, maybe the size of a large dinner plate each of them, maybe like that big, so there'd be like these three butterflies shapes without a head, it was like a snow angel, if you made a snow angel in the snow, these things that look like that, just like that and there's three of them. The middle one, its wings are connected to the two outer ones and this thing is coming towards me and I'm thinking I'm gonna die, this is what happens, this is what happens when you die. Fuck, this is really bad and these things start coming down and I have a coffee table that runs this way and I see that these butterflies are made out of like laser thread, green thread, red thread and then green and then red, they're maybe a quarter inch apart, so they're the outline of these three butterflies and in the center is this little baby butterfly in each center and in those centers the two threads, one green, one blue, one red are forming geometric patterns in the middle and each middle is different, so there's, each core is forming three different geometric shapes, the shape would last for about half a second and then change and then the little threads would start weaving again and then form another perfect geometrical shape that I'd never seen before in my life, they weren't like triangles, they were like complex geometrical, mathematical symbols in each one, three of them, all going at once at different times and I'm thinking obviously that these are what happens is to come and take me away and I have, all I feel is terror, 100% unbridled fear is running through me, I'm not jumping up, I'm not running outside, I'm not yelling, I'm frozen in fear and these things they stop and they hover over my coffee table and they just sit there and they're blasting out these alien geometries and I'm panicking and nothing happens, they just sit there, they're just sitting there and I'm laying like this and looking at these damn things and I'm just sweating and absolutely terrified, frozen in fear and you know it was only later like days later that I was like what the fuck was I doing, you know why didn't I like you know like do something, swap them away or yell at them or you know like all the things that you would normally do, I didn't do any of that stuff and we just sat there for a while and then they started moving towards me and I had the panic shot through me again, I would freak out and they stopped and they backed off, I don't think what the fuck is going on, what are you guys doing, what the fuck are you and what the fuck is happening and then my heartbeat would start slowing down because they weren't doing anything, they're just sitting there. So eventually I would, my breathing would kind of return to normal and then they'd start creeping forward again and then I would panic again and then they would back off again and this maybe took 45 minutes of this, that's such a long time, it's beyond a long time especially when, I mean just there's only later, I know that I will get there. So these things eventually start creeping towards this again, this dance is going over and over and over, I freak out what the fuck you're doing, what the fuck are you, what is happening, they back off, they wait, I calm down, they move forward, over and over until finally I'm just sort of like okay, well they're not doing anything and they start and I keep my breathing under control enough and they start moving over my body. So now they're right in front of me, hovering, you know, over my midsection, you know, maybe around my knees and they're over my body now and now I'm looking at them head on and their little things are going off the three of them and they're making these incredible patterns and they're just sitting there, they're just showing me, they're showing me these insane alien geometries and two colors that look three-dimensional and you know that the things themselves are 2D, I don't have depth, they're just these flat alien interdimensional butterflies and they're sitting there and they're making these alien symbols at me and I start to calm down a little bit and I'm thinking to myself, now if this is a hallucination, it's a hell of a hallucination because there's no way that my brain could be coming up with these patterns that I swear to God, I have nuts and I had time to look at them and go what are those things, what are they, is it a language, is it a symbol, but what they were and I tried drawing them later and I couldn't, I couldn't wrap my mind around what they were, I knew they were mathematical, they were perfectly, they were precise, they were in these two laser thread colors and they had depth, some of them had depth, this went on for quite a while and then they started moving towards my face and I panicked again and now I'm thinking oh this is what this was about, these fuckers want to get in me, they want it, they're coming, they're coming at me, they want to like invade my body and then now I really start freaking out, I was like oh my God, this whole thing was a dance, they're hypnotizing me, it doesn't matter what those little crazy symbols are, that was just a hypnotized me to get me into the state like a rabbit, you know, like the infer sound that a tiger makes, they were just like lulling me into the sense that they were just going to overwhelm me and I really panicked and I thought I was right all along, this really is what happens when you die, they're just taking their time about it and they stopped and they backed off and they sat there and they kept doing what they were doing and now I'm thinking okay, they do want to get in me but they want permission, they want me to say yes and they're not going to come in until I let them and I was like guess what, that's never happening, that is not a thing that is going to happen between us and they just sat there and did their thing and I'm like you know we can do this all night and now I'm being flippant about it now but at the time it was terror and I wasn't speaking, I was thinking these things in my mind like this can't be, I know, fuck no and then they start coming towards me again and we panicked, they backed off again and this goes on for probably another half an hour, 45 minutes, yeah, this was not going away, this was not a fuzzy hallucinatory experience, this was wide awake in the middle of the night, like you and me right here, if this is real then that was real, I don't know what else to tell you, if this was real then that was real and they were not going away, they just were not giving up, I mean it just went on for fucken ever and so finally I was exhausted, the kind of fear that would go through me wasn't just you know like freaking out, it was like sharp, I could feel it in my skin, it was the kind of hormonal release in my body that hurt my skin, and like it was like waves of fear and adrenaline. That was a physical sort of, my skin was hurting. I remember thinking, oh, this hurts. Every time this fucking thing's come at me and that panic runs through me, it's painful. But eventually I just, I think they wore me down. I think they, they, and I was, and I was, I came to the conclusion that if these guys were here to hurt me or do something nefarious, that they wouldn't be, you know, being so polite about it, they wouldn't be so, they obviously wanted me to calm down. I mean, it took a long time for that to sink in. But finally, at sunken, they want me to calm down. They're not, they're not, I'm gonna have to take the leap and say that they're not here to hurt me. So I said, okay. In my mind, I said, okay, do what you gotta do. And just like they heard me, they just started, they started coming in, they started coming at me. And they started got closer and they got closer and they got closer. And when they got about to hear I closed my eyes, and I felt the threads pass through me. I felt those vibratory laser-like threads pass into my skin, pass into my bones, into my body, and I could see them. I could see these threads and they felt like they were elongating. So they didn't just pass through like that. They passed through and then they elongated. So they kept passing through. Like, you know, they just got longer and longer and longer and they were passing through me and passing through me. And this is really weird. And then I got an erection. This rush of hormones went through my body, gave me a heart on. And this flood of like good feeling, you know, this relaxation, this release, this, and it felt like hormones being released in my body, like things were the chemicals were sort of being unleashed or released in my body. And that's the last thing I remember. I, my consciousness drifted off. It just, it took, and I don't, it wasn't like turned on out of light. It was just sort of like getting dimmer and dimmer and thoughts, you know, just drifted off. And I remember climbing into bed. And I remember thinking that the sun was coming up. And I could still see the afterburn of those creatures in my mind because I'd been staring at them for so long, and I remember thinking, yeah, that's probably why. Because as my eyes are closed, climbing in a bed, I don't remember getting off the couch, but I remember climbing in a bed. And still seeing the red and green threads in my, in my sort of afterburned sort of eyeballs. And thinking that that was why, and then I fell asleep. And then I never woke up. The next day, I was somebody else. Just like that, just like that. Just like that, lights out on that life, lights on. And I, you know, it wasn't left with anything. I was just left with, was that, was that, what the fuck was that? You know, the next day I was just off on, you know, on trying to figure out what the hell had happened to me, you know. I don't know, I don't know what the hell was that. So years later, Edgar Mitchell put out his really thick experience or book where they interviewed something like 3,500 different experiences and they put that all together. It's a great book, the free book. Yep. And according to their surveys, the number one reported encounter is with an energy beam. And the number two reported encounter was with some form of gray alien. And the number one place it happens is in your bedroom. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The, the, um, that made me, that was interesting. You know, that, uh, I think that came out in 2017 or something like that, uh, 2018, like that. Yeah, it was the biggest study done of like, experience, and it's what show that they were mostly benevolent as well. And yeah, yeah. And the human, the human-esque types are also almost equally reported with the gray. Mm-hmm. Um, there's a lot of different kinds of grays. And this, uh, this energy-being thing, you know, I've, uh, there's, uh, there's orbs, there's intelligent plasmas, but I have yet to, uh, define these guys, these guys, uh, so if anybody out there knows anything, I'd love to know what? So you said, you know, obviously this changed you, um, from one day to the next, you were just a completely different person. Did you feel in any sense different, not because of the sort of traumatic experience of, of, of witnessing something so insane, but did you feel change? Perhaps because of something they left you? I don't think so. So I've asked myself that. Yeah, I didn't get any psychic powers. No downloads. I didn't get any downloads. None of you know of, I, uh, you know, say I don't know. I was, I was, I went through a period where I was really, uh, I felt like I failed somehow. Like it was intense and I failed because I, nothing happened. They didn't come back. They didn't, uh, you know, I, I, I wanted, after that, you know, I, I wanted answers. I wanted them to come back so I could, you know, try to, try to get some more information. Do you have any dreams about them or just nothing? So strange how it's so one sided very one sided, but is it though, right? Cause like, sure, okay, maybe they got what they needed from you somehow. Cause clearly they wanted something from you. Like that they wanted in, they want right? And they, and they, they, but they needed your consent. I did. Um, but what it left you was a deeper sense of, reality. I mean, you've, it, it completely changed your outlook on, on everything, right? And, and maybe perhaps due to the experience that you had, um, trying to build yourself up after that. But even so shattered my entire life. Yeah. Not, I mean, nothing made sense anymore after that. And I, it was disrobed of my illusions that I thought I knew what the hell was going on around here. I don't, I don't know, damn thing. I don't know anything. And, and that is never left. I just, uh, don't know anything. And that's a nice place to start, you know, a really interesting place to start. I don't have the tools to, to navigate whatever that was. We don't have any answers. We don't, we can, we can try to land one of the, one of the hardest things is to resist the temptation to land on something. You know, just say, well, these were angels, you know, and then find religion. Um, you know, or, or, or any, any of the other, you know, um, sort of narratives that I could invent. And I could build a whole dots around a number of different narratives, but I, I don't have any narratives, you know. But it did lead me to try to sort of, well, what it did was show me that the, and the, the first thing that I found, I talked to a psychic. I mean, I didn't believe in psychics, but I've talked to one. I talked to all kinds of different people and I wrote and, and, and, and Leslie Keane, her book, UFOs, generals, pilots, you know, talk about that book is from 2011. That book was brand new, just came out. I snatched that up and that, and that was, um, something concrete that I could hang my hat on and go, okay, something's going on here. Something is happening, you know, and that led me down the road and that was the closest thing I could find. to a rabbit trail that would lead to some sort of answers about what kind of universe we're really living in. And that really became a question for me. What kind of universe is this really? What's really going on here? Come on. Yeah. Yeah, I'm sure a lot of people in your position that have had these earth shattering experiences that are so deeply personal that even saying them out loud feels like you're taking the air out of it. You know, but I'm sure a lot of those people like yourself have found solace in works like Lezzly Keynes or even the 2017 New York Times article think of it what you will. But it provides like you said some level of concretizing an experience that lives only in this one person's you know rear view and in their mind. It doesn't exist out here anywhere and you can't you can't read on it. You can't look for it. And then when you have something like that, that's got to it's got to be a good feeling. Yeah, you have, you know, dots that you can put together. You have other people that have had these similar types of experiences. And that's the only reason that that I would talk about, you know, is to try to get offer back some of the solace that I took when I started reading and listening to other people's experiences that happened to them that they went through that also changed their lives in all kinds of different ways. And I think that it's time for us to make it okay to talk about this stuff. I have no clue except for I know what happened to me. I don't know what I saw. And other people do too. Did you face, did you talk about this at all when this came out? No. You just just kept it to yourself. I told my daughter. Wow. And that was it. Yeah. I told her briefly, briefly. Yeah. Yeah. She was young. And even then you're kind of like pulling your punches because you don't want to overwhelm anyone. You don't want anyone to think, you know, you've lost the plot. And then I told a friend, a pretty good friend of mine. I was a bad idea. So I kind of cut that off. Do they do they make fun? Or was it just don't know what to do with it? Right. You know, just you just don't as soon as you start, as soon as I started talking about it, I was like, this is not this was a mistake. Right. I don't know. This is not nobody's prepared for anything. Yeah. What are you supposed to do with that? Right. Right. Right. I needed to, you know, I wanted to let it happen. I needed to, of course, share it with somebody. But that was a bad idea. I told my sister. I mean, I wouldn't say it was a bad idea. It's probably a good idea, but probably just, yeah, maybe not timely. I told my sister, she came over, you know, her birthday was in August. So we were celebrating her birthday. And then, yeah, that was one of the last times we, we, we hung out together, you know, and she died a few months after that. But that was sort of one of the, she was, she was a little more, you know, she, I grew up with her. So she was a little more, I got a little more out of that interaction with more receptive. Yeah. But, you know, you quickly learn that this is not something that you're, that's going to help you're not, you're not going to get any answers. And you're not, and you're not going to make it feel any better. Right. By sharing this, you know, you might just like push people away. Yeah. That's, you totally understand is totally understandable. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That rationality that you have about it is something that I found in most experiences that I hold in high conviction is the sense of, I get it. You're going to think I'm crazy. I get it. I would too. And that is said by everybody who's had these experience, if I were you, I wouldn't believe me. There's no way you can believe it. Exactly. But that's also for me like a really, that increases my conviction on it because that's how I would be too. If I try to imagine something like that, I have it in me. I'd be like, how do I even? And especially, you know, people know me as a magician. They're going to think, oh, this is just some trick or something. Like, how would I even communicate that? And the need to want to communicate it and be understood and connect with people is probably really dire. I had to write it down. Yeah. I had to write the book. The book's not for even people who are alive right now. The book is for the future. The book is for when we can understand these kind of experiences in a better light. And I'm hoping that it's helpful to people in the present, you know, but we're really, we're laying the groundwork for a new ontology that is coming. And we will get there. And we're getting there now. And every voice that we can use everybody's voice right now, we really can. This is saying earlier that, you know, understanding what kind of cosmos we really live in is a freedom. Freedoms are never granted. They're taken every time in history. Freedom of speech, you know, the freedom of equality. These are taken. They're never granted. Disclosure is not going to be granted to us. We are going to take it. And we're going to do it by sharing these kinds of experiences with each other and building the bridge to what the real world looks like. It's the only way to do it. Put the watch guard said. Revolt. Yeah, you can build the world, you know, revolution can be done. Do you need to do it yourself? Could you draw what the being look like just so I can show the audience, give them a loose idea of perhaps. Meet new groupie setting missed from Maybelline, New York. Jelly Miss technology locks in your look for up to 24 hours with flexible all day comfy grip. No tightness, no stickiness, no residue, just clump, dewy hydrated skin that still feels like your skin. Try new groupie setting missed from Maybelline, New York. You just have to imagine that there's three of these. Yeah. It's going to help me cut off. Basically, take these guys. This is all fucked up. That's okay. To really concentric lines alternating one red thread, one green thread laser thin like threads, like threads made away. Were they physical or did you see through them? They were physically couldn't see through the threads. Right. So they were like dense, they had a density to them. Whoa. Laser quality to them. Definitely. They're glowing threads like. Wow. And green and red too, that that's got to be such a strange visual distortion, seeing threads so closely together like some illusion. How many would you say of these threads in sort of in this concentric pattern? I would just be guessing, but hundreds or dozens. I would just be guessing. You could count them if you had to. For you had to count them, yeah, that there may be anywhere between 50 and 75. Yeah, a lot. Yeah, but a limit, you know, a lot, but not infinite. I mean, it's basically as many threads as each one was about that big. In the center, would have been the little baby dude baby butterfly. And that's where the the little shapes. If you had to draw the shape, just the shape, like one shape in particular that you might have seen, is there any way that you could? Or is it like a it's like a tesseract essentially like a like a fourth-dimensional object depicted in three dimensions or something? Only lasted for maybe maybe a half a second, you know, it would be frozen in space, the image. Sorry, the image would be frozen in space for half a second. - Really? - And then the threads would disentangle. They'd start whipping around each other, and then they'd freeze again with another brand new shape. - How strange. - That was just the general idea. - Like, was that, do you think? - I mean, you've probably contemplated this in so many ways. It must be so frustrating to an extent because you're not given any clear answers. And all you can do is impose your own anthropomorphic view on it like, are they communicating with each other? Are they trying to communicate with you? Are they talking? Is this even a language? Is it random? Is it? - Well, it wasn't random. I mean, it was really specific, whatever the hell they were. And I never saw the same shape twice. - Really? So, you know, in a language, do you think there'd be some sort of repetition? - Yeah, the word "the" comes back or something, yeah. - Never saw the same one twice. - No, the middle of the damn thing would have been something like this, you know, sort of a, and then the two threads, you know, one would come in this way, and the other would come in there. - Oh, like, they were weaving something, like a spider. - That's right. Just like a spider. - And it was like creating, yeah. - A symbol. - And then there would be this, you know, this, it was weird little architect. - We're a readable architecture inside this thing. That would be, you know, as with the hell they were. Can't, can't. - Yeah, no, yeah. I mean, I wouldn't know where to begin either, but that's, thank you. That's fascinating. - Yeah. - So you got the impression that these were three distinct entities. This wasn't one entity, or was that. - I couldn't tell. - Yeah, I mean, there's no answer there. That's what's so frustrating about this. Like, there's no precedent, and there's no comparison. - Sometimes I wonder if the whole thing wasn't a technology. - Right, like something else was outside the room. - Yeah, this thing may have been something that was created for a purpose, and they've sent it in, you know? - Cheers. - It's like the CIA out in a van, you know, and they're sending in some microwaves through a window to kind of burn somebody's hands or something, you know? But this is sort of an interdimensional technology being sent from some other dimension into my living room. I don't know. - I can't imagine, you know, if you were to apply religious lens to that, and you were, this was, this happened 800 years ago. - Which you would definitely do. - You know, what would it look? It would be angels, right? It would be angels, it would be either angels or demons. Like, I mean, those are the, that's the binary, you know, there's the amount of options you have. - That's right. - But that would definitely be, oh man, it's so strange. That's so strange. 'Cause here we are, this clearly physical object that is behaving so strangely, that seemed to have appeared out of nowhere. This apparition. - And for it is a ball of fuzz. - Yeah. - And it also caught my attention. And I've always wondered, I'm reading a book. I'm always wondered, did I see it out of the corner of my eye or was there a little signal sent for me to look up at it because the hypnosis started as soon as I saw the fuzz. - Yeah, there's no going back to the book. - I was frozen, I don't even know what happened to the book. - Yeah, yeah, the book's out of the question. - Yeah. - But my consciousness was laser-focused on that damn thing as soon as it was a ball of fuzz in the corner of, and it came in where the wall met the ceiling, that crack, that seam. - It just made its way in through a crack. - I don't know, but it appeared right in the crack in this fuzz. And it stayed there long enough for me to go, hell is that, and that was it. It was like, it was on. Something took over, obviously, something locked on to my consciousness at that moment. I remember that moment, and that's when it started. And but my thoughts were free. I was free to think all of the normal thoughts. - And you weren't being put, there was nothing being put into your head. - I just didn't move. - Couldn't your terrified. - I didn't think about moving. - Yeah. - So I don't know if I was-- - That was induced. - Induced, or if I don't know if I was, my body was frozen the way we read about and a lot of aliens have the ability to-- - But you hear about that. - To freeze, stop a guard from drawing its gun, freeze them, but keep the autonomic nervous system intact so they can breathe and they can look around, but they can't move. - But you hear about people not being sure, is what I'm saying. There are a lot of people who said, I don't know whether I was just afraid or whether they stopped me from moving. - Yeah, that's true. - And then other people do feel that they've been frozen. - Yeah, they've been frozen. - But I don't know. I think I was, I mean, I think that's not the way I would have behaved as a normal person. - It's almost strangely predatory. - Also, do you know what I mean? Like there was like, the way that you're describing it is like incredibly invasive, but so strange that like, they would need your permission. - Yeah. - Like they needed it because otherwise, they're coming towards you anyways. They could have just kept coming towards you. - They respected my free will. - That makes me think that there's a benefit there for you then too. - But they also didn't go away. - Yeah, you know. - Right, they were just waiting for you to, they were wearing you down. - They were waiting for me to give up. - But they did need my permission. They did need my permission. They weren't going to, they were, whatever the experience was, it was not going to be invasive, even though it was invasive. They weren't going to do what they were gonna do until it was an acquiescence of that we're gonna do this. - We'll do this, Dan. - We'll do this. - We need, we're going to do this and it's a matter of time before you say yes, this is happening. - What's something you would have done differently in that moment. Like now that you've had time to think about it, would you be like, man, I wish I would have grabbed them or I wish I would have filmed them or I wish I would have talked to them out loud or screamed at them or thrown something at them. Is there anything you wish you would have done slightly differently? - All of those things I wish I would have done. But at the end of the day, I'm not kicking myself because there was nothing I could have done differently. There's no other way that that could have played out. Maybe a little bit longer, maybe I could have held on a little bit longer before they had their way with me. But. - Did you ever think they would have done this to another family member? - I would have liked to have gotten some answers. - Sure. - If I could have it my way, I would want to know what the hell, where they're from, what they want, what they're doing, what they did to me, what they got, what they left. I would like answers. I'd like to know what happened when I lost consciousness. That's really what I'd like to know, but I'm actually kind of terrified. - You don't want to do any of the regressive stuff. - I haven't done any regressive stuff. I'm thinking maybe that I might, but I don't wanna. - Yeah, that's fair. And I would go through your gut on that. Do it feels right, and that case don't force something like that? - Yeah, I don't feel at the end of the day that it was bad. - Bad, you know, that it was a negative thing. I wouldn't wish that on anybody in the world, but I'm actually incredibly grateful. - Did you have anybody in the house with you? - No, my daughter was at her mom's that night. - Do you think it would have changed how? - Yep, so fucking good. And I thought about that a lot. If my daughter was in the other room, that would've been a completely different experience. - Yeah, you go to her first. - I, whatever, I don't know, but it would've been a completely different experience. All I would've been thinking of was of course, you know. But she wasn't in the house. - Yeah, it's probably part of it. It's probably part of it. They probably knew that. They obviously they knew that. - Gosh. - It's so funny, but I desperately want you to have an answer. I know that you must obviously want your answers, but like, I want you to have an answer. I want you to have an answer. I don't want the answer, I just want you to have it. I feel like you deserve an answer. I feel like that's, show me something that's strange and don't give me an explanation is like the sickest joke you could pull on somebody. Like, what are you doing here? Like give, give, give the man something. - And for years, this was not a thing that you could, I had any inkling of that I could share this with anyone. But it did start writing all, stuff down. You know, I started writing stuff down right away and I knew that I needed to share the experience. I knew that became part of the journey relatively soon. I'd say within a six months, I was sitting on my. back deck and looking at the stars, and it just came over me, I need to write host down. I need to write everything about everything that I can about all of this, and I need to write it down. If not for now, then just as a record for somebody, this needs to be, and that's just sent me on the journey, and that's where the book comes from. Maybe that's the whole point. I mean, who knows? I have to kind of believe that. I have to believe that there's a point, and I have to believe that we're slowly building the bridge to a new reality, to a new life, to a new world. We can create a new world. It exists. It's real. Have you ever done psychedelics? Have you tried to figure out what it was? Yes. What have you tried? I smoked DMT with Paul Heine. Paul Heine. That was the reason I did it. I'm like, maybe they're over there. Yeah, they're waiting for me. Let's go see them. Maybe this is where I supposed to meet put the dots together and meet them. What came from that? Nothing. Do you have a good time? I got a lot out of it. I went to the center of the universe and met the mother of the cosmos, so there's a lot of value. It's not nothing. Yeah, that was stunning. And I think that all of these modalities are leading us toward the same thing. I think that the universe is constructed of a non-local essence that we call love. It's a human word that we use to talk about a innate connection that we all share that exists everywhere, and all at once, and for all time. And that we're all born from this, this desire, this impulse to be, the impulse to create, the impulse to join together, to create, to create novelty, to be in the universe. I think it's happening everywhere, all at once. I think it's the heart of synchronicity. And we call it love, because we're humans, and we need to make vowels, funny noises come out of our mouth to talk about stuff that, "Oh yeah, I know what you're talking about, that thing that doesn't have a very good definition, but we all know what it is." I think the universe is made out of that, and then I think that's a hell of a revelation. All of a sudden, I think I agree with you, I think that that, to me, is becoming more and more clear as I'm on this journey myself, discovering things about myself, you know, through these conversations, through these very cathartic interactions, I'm also coming to that conclusion, and you know, that's one of those things that, like, when you have a revelation like that, as you go down this, it makes you feel good. It's not just, like, an intellectual stimulant. You have an emotional stimulation that is occurring, much like the one when you create a bond with someone or a connection with someone or, you know, or have someone in your life that you care about or a memory, like, these things are more than information on a piece of paper that we can study with science. And we can still study it with science, but we have to start injecting some love into the situation. Yeah, I would think so. You're never going to get there. Yeah. And why not? Isn't that the greatest thing in the world? I think so. Like, we had had this conversation with Dr. Mossbridge found a substantial increase in 塞 ability when someone was experiencing unconditional love, such a great dot. That's such a fantastic clue that such a touchstone that Mossbridge is found and put together. I mean, that is a ledge that we can build. It's the keyhole. Yeah. It really is. Yeah. It's the keyhole. You're like, oh, wait. And I think it's the beginning of learning how these entities, and I don't think they're non-human. The consciousness, the intelligence that we're dealing with, it's not non-human. It's non-local. And that non-local intelligent technology starts with what we're calling love, this non-local essence. It's a information system. It's just not, it's just not local. Yeah. I wonder if, you know, if you go back in time, like, let's see, I try to picture myself right. Let's say I am an alien, which I am by the very definition, but let's say I'm out here and I've developed technology that understands that love is a very strong energy. It is a fundamental property of the universe and how technology works and everything. And I can use that to somehow bounce around the universe or talk to people in their minds or whatever it is. And I, you know, I, I posit this idea to myself, like if you were an alien and you were zipping around 2000 years ago and you just, you see this, like, emanating force on the planet and you go, what is that? Right. And like a moth to a flame, you're like, that's creation energy. That's a lot of energy where it was, oh, there's a guy there. And he's just, like, emanating this, you know, and like, maybe to them, I always thought, like, what a strange idea to be like, you're zipping across. And then that's what made them go that way really interesting. What do we have here? We have this. You don't even know what they have these people. This is an incredible amount of technology that, you know, and maybe that's why we're being studied. That's one of the things that Dr. Paul Pirata was told on the ship or wherever the hell he was with the human-esque alien. Really? He was up there for three days. He starts freaking out again. He's like, I want to go home, I miss my kids, I miss my family. This is really fucking weird. I'm overwhelmed. You guys are jamming information into my head. And I can't take it. And one of the aliens goes, come here. He goes, you are made of love. He goes, all of that, all your fears, all of your bullshit, they're all that shit away. There's only one thing that matters and that's love. And he connected that love. And he goes, I'll show you how to do it right now. And he connected Paul to his family. And Paul says he was there in the space, the laboratory, but his kid, his own living room appeared before him. And he saw his two children playing. And he saw his wife looking after the kids. And Paul was overcome with his overwhelming feeling of love. He looked at one of his kids, the little one, the little three-year-old, and he said, I love you. And the kid turned and looked around. It smiled at him. And then they went kind of went away. And then the aliens told him, he said, everybody carries within them this flame. And we see that flame. And we're attracted to that flame. And some people have bigger flames than others. People with a big flame, those are the people we're attracted to. We study that. Whoa. Yeah. That's dead on. Yeah. That was the thought that I, you know, if you're traveling and you see that, you go, what is that over there? You know, in that like in my head, I was like, maybe that Jesus guy a couple thousand years ago was just this like being that had a lot of love. You see all these depictions of angels, the hearts with these beaming rays of light and stuff. And I thought, maybe this is just, who knows what he is? You know, maybe he's also alien, I don't know, but you know, that would be, if love is a fundamental property of the universe, of understanding technology, then obviously it's of interest to people, you know, seeking it who don't have it perhaps or don't have as much abundance of it. Starting it and, you know, do they, are they trying to figure out ways to create space to foster more? Sure. That's what an AI would do. Right. What is love? And they would like to just grow things and be like, ooh, that's the other thing, Paul's parata said. He said, they don't feel emotions that we do. He said, they don't have the familial attachments that we do. They're not, they're not all, you know, getting bent out of shape about shit. No. No extremes. Right. Yeah. And yet they have this innate sort of fascination, but also connection to this, this, they describe that as a flame, you know, that we all carry. And then you have these other beings from Joseph, the Wanderker, who cried. Yeah. Yeah. Weeping. Who weaped it like something very emotional, you know, and so. And his pain, his own pain and frustration at the world that he lived in. And the first thing I was mouth was, how do we fix this? This is a mess. The eight-off Hitler just killed 40 million people. Yeah. And to them, that's like overstimming. They're like, whoa, and like, that's too much emotion. We don't feel that emotion normally. They started weeping. Yeah. Yeah. Incredible. Okay, I Think it's about time for some questions from the audience. What do you think you down to answer a few questions? Oh my yeah, you only got a few like three or four. Yeah, all right. I'll go turn the camera on Okay Let's get into some of these interesting questions the audience always has the best questions You know, I'm I'm cherry picking great, but as soon as your name came out too is like flooded so many people were very curious About what you had to say so Let's go here From your perspective as a storyteller which piece or pieces of purported fiction most closely resemble the facts. Yeah, that's a great question Well, obviously close encounters they did their homework. They certainly did um Fire in the sky and a wonderful story is really too bad that they just this producers decided to completely alter the Abduction experience that has really never been filmed and I I would love to do that, you know, I would love to Film and I've worked on a screenplay about the abduction experience the Made for TV movie. They're based on the bud hopkins book. Oh, yeah, it wasn't bad. Yeah, no, yeah, that was that was creepy Yeah, with the With the hybrid stuff and like man that creep me out. Yeah, yeah, it was based a Randall, Nickerson was a consultant on that as well They really did their homework. They really tried to to get the aliens right, you know In fact some of the pictures online of those aliens are still circulating circulating as real aliens They did a great job. What do you think of disclosure day? I I'm a huge Steven Spielberg fan same. Yeah, yeah, there's all there, you know, so I'm a movie lover There's a lot to love in the disclosure day You know, and I and I hope it opens the door to make more more movies. I've got a great script about Calvin Parker. Oh, yeah, yeah, Charles Hickson. Yeah, Pascal Gula Pascal Gula, okay, Sam 73 That's a really interesting Contact experience story that took over the nation in 73 and really sparked a lot of the debates that that went on and of course that was The year the humanoids according to David Webb who wrote a fantastic monograph about that but hell of a year 73 all over the world humanoid landings was a hell of a wave and Hickson and Parker really got caught up in The in the brunt of it, you know, it ruined both of their lives. It was especially the young one Poor Calvin, you know, he had he had that dog Tim for the rest of his life He really had trouble Integrating that experience and his life and I think that that is Wonderful story that needs to be told Yeah, I'm surprised it hasn't been there's so many stories though as you know That would make for incredible movies You do brothers wrote a wonderful screenplay. Really? Yeah, and I've got it. I'd love to turn that into a film You wouldn't need a whole lot of money these days to do something like that So that's something that I have on the nice books, you know, I think that would be a good thing to do Oh definitely that's a really compelling and strange story Also, I'm really surprised no one's done like a genuine blockbuster on Roswell. I know like that blows my mind I pitched a Roswell many series. I mean, I mean, we took it to all the things all the studios all the outlets And we couldn't get anybody. They're like, yeah, it sounds like a period drama. We don't my deep. Do you guys not know? No, you guess you never don't I'd hit it from like I Man, I'd hit it from such a strange angle like for today's audience. I'd be like A24 Angle where right you're one of the perhaps counterintelligence officers and it's just slice of life Yeah, that's the way to do it and you're just following this guy as he's like, you know, putting the kids to bed or whatever Yeah, exactly. You have no idea of anything and all of a sudden in the background there's all this stuff happening But you don't really know it's follow Mac brazil. Yeah, these two guys on opposite ends, you know I was kind of kind of kind of great as they both kind of change sides by the end of that experience. Yeah, it's true That's a that's a really neat story. We tried to do it as many series. Maybe we make it better movie. I mean just Roswell, you know, obviously or just 1947 would also work as a title. I mean, there's a great title You had the series. There's well, I mean, there was Roswell the series of on like the CW about you know Some teenage kids being aliens and living among us or whatever some hard throbs That makes it a little harder. It does make it a little harder stuff, you know, for the for the studios to sort of wrap their head Take it seriously But then Josh Boone is a fit Roswell fanatic. He's got all this wonderful research And I'm hoping that he gets to do that. That'd be cool There's a taken by Spielberg. Yeah, the 10-part mini series. Oh great And it's available on YouTube if anybody wants to watch it. I highly recommend it because it covers It goes so deep Like from from telepathic abilities from having an alien From screen memories of Nazis and from like crash retrieval. It's Very on the nose and and that plus Close encounters plus disclosure day. He's got no stuff. I mean, he's got he's playing koi Dude, he's done more than his homework. Let's be honest here. Spielberg I would imagine that you'd have people coming out of the woodwork to tell you what's what's happened Well, so they had you know, obviously a J Allen Heineck as a consultant For close encounters of third kind they they had somebody play Jacques Vallet so there was some inside baseball going on there There was crates of you know skunk works and whatnot. Yeah all that stuff was You could learn all that stuff at that time Without having any insider knowledge the hand scanner. I've heard Yeah, I mean that's that was pretty inside baseball I think that he probably picked up some details from different people But that was going on everywhere. Yeah, you know like the UFO guys the researchers They were all picking up these little tidbits Who consulted for disclosure day though? I haven't I looked at the credits I couldn't really find anybody that like fit the bill in terms of you know whistleball like I would have had Some of these whistleblowers be like and one of you know the rumor is that they approach some Intelligence approach Spielberg. That's the rumor. Yeah, that's that's a rumor for close encounters. Yeah Now Still compelling and Spielberg, you know no matter what he does. It's always going to be magical agree that scene Where they walk the child into the woods. I mean gives me goosebumps that scene is worth watching the entire movie just for that scene the capturing dude Taking the child in this sort of hands-o-ling Gretel scenario, right? Because this way is what it is it ends up being horrific really when you think about it you have this like Oh, it's cute animals. It's nice little gingerbread home in the middle of the woods very magical And then it starts spinning and becoming clinical And cold and a slab dude At terrified it was like I've read accounts about Children will have like big bunny rabbits come into their room and play with them and then take them out the window And that's how they take a gluer them onto craft. That seems nefarious. Yeah I mean It does You know when you in that in that moment when I watch that scene I felt slighted for the kids yeah Like just stay bunnies then What are you doing? Well, you got to turn into these ugly things and like on this metal slab all the sudden With these white lights like just stay the deer. There's some sort of impregnation Uh of our newest fear of our human This field of human consciousness. We're being impregnated with this stuff You know they don't have to reveal themselves at all They could do all of that stuff and knock every experience or out while they're sleeping Take them onto the craft never wake them up then put them back in their bed. They could do that for Right. Yeah, there's a reason there Yeah, it's a good point Okay from Alan Pugock. I don't know how to spell that or pronounce that barker Have other Hollywood figures shared UFO encounters with you and can you share them? Uh the answer is yes and and no because I don't have their permission Would you share it without with keeping the source anonymous? I'd I'd rather not sure fair enough But how many would you say not very many? Okay, so a few And would these be Names that people would be familiar with sure really. Yeah. What do you think is there reluctance to want to come forward? That's career or Everyone's on the journey, we're all trying to muddle our way through this and it is not for the faint of heart and there are consequences and there have been consequences and I think that that's changing and I'm willing to say that that should change. We should be a lot lighter with this. We don't have to believe or not believe. We should just take this a little lighter, you know? This isn't, you know, no one's forcing poison down your throat, just take it easy and that's okay. We can all get along, get along. Yeah, I agree. Were any of those stories, did they involve beings? Not that I know. Mostly some, okay. All right, interesting and I'm sure, you know, hopefully with podcasts and conversations like the one we're having and the ones like this, you know, that'll make it a commonplace to talk about. For so many, yeah, there's just so many, so many people out there. I mean, yeah, we're still living in it, but we're the the ice is melting. Yeah. Yeah. This one from Hex. Kind of answered this in a way, but it's a maybe a different question. If you could go back and watch your 2011 experience as a fly on the wall, would you? That entire experience is burned into my head, you know, in in in 1080p in a way that will never go away. And a fly on the wall, I guess that would mean sort of from an outsider perspective, right? Sort of like watching myself go through go through that. No, I wouldn't want to watch myself go through that. No, that would be really embarrassing. See the the utter terror on my face, you know, as a man who's just, you know, meeting the angels that are going to steal his soul away and you know, give him die of a heart. Be found the next day, dead of a heart attack or something on the couch. It's like that, that's what that was. You know, that would have been the look on my face. Yeah. Sheer terror. Yeah. You know, but the terror of death, you know, and that was the other confrontation, you know, as I'm kind of started this conversation, fear has been, you know, something that I think that I've been put here to or it might be part of the lessons that I'm supposed to be learning in this life. Whoa, that just occurred to me. That's the first thing you mentioned on this conversation was that, you know, if there was a lesson for you to learn, it's overcoming that fear. But then what did those things do? Right. When they sensed you were fearful, they stepped back. Yeah. They were helping you learn that lesson. It's possible. Whoa. I mean, whether that was intentional or not, I don't know, but maybe. Yeah. Maybe. Well, or maybe just a synchronicity. Right. Right. Okay. Last one here from TH Perry. Is a good one because you got a lot of use in your book. Which older UFO cases most shape, how you see the phenomenon's long history? The phenomenon's long history, how I see the phenomenon's long history, right? So, well, it has to be the encounter cases, you know, in the earlier encounter cases are also phenomenal. And the fact that they started as far back as our records go, really, you know, and again, Preston Dennett is a great resource for this, but the cases from the 1910s, the 1920s. In Canada, there's a few there too. The 1930s, you know, the cases that happened before '47, the first worldwide UFO wave of '47 is what kicked off this sort of this whole endeavor, this whole transformation. But the groundwork was being laid for decades before that, which didn't have the language and some folks like Evelyn Went who in 1923 was playing, was that a Canadian case? She's playing in her school yard in the grass and this ship comes down out of the middle of nowhere and these robotic flower beings get out. And they're basically her, her height, you know, she's like a seven-year-old girl in 1923. And the beings got, we're really upset about the science building on the property and they told her that if the work in the science building continued, they would blow it up. Is this just these bizarre cases? These flower people are like, the work must stop in the science building. And then they went in their craft and they dragged out this huge heavy instrument. And she didn't know if it was a weapon or what the hell it was. And they asked her to help her. And she's trying to lift it. She said it was way too heavy. And then they basically put it back in the ship and took out, and they said, before they took off, they said, we're going to be back for you in 35 years. And they flew away. And she lived in terror for 35 years. They never did come back 50 years later as an older lady. She told that story in 1973 because all of the other humanoid cases were coming out. So she said she wanted her story to be recorded, even though it had started in 1923. So that was a big transformation for me, you know, just start helping to sort of take shape to put a shape to the phenomenon. Yeah. Udo Ortena same kind of thing came at the 80s. It was even him that came out. They found like his detailed account in writing, you know, after after he passed, yeah, that's cool. Yeah. And being like, yeah, I was, you know, prospecting. And they took me on board and showed me the tech and there's a case from the 30s in Italy where this artist found that one's on a little iffy or on because he was an artist and a writer and it just felt like he may have been kept that he told his account in the 50s. So I think there's a little bit of that going on. Oh, definitely. I mean, you look at Dan Fry, you look at, you know, Georgia Damsky and this whole bizarre sort of space brother movement, which really bothers me because there really are these tall blonde human ask aliens. So I'm of two minds were the were was that contactee movement instigated by the human asks knowing that that it would wouldn't be believed knowing that it or was that groundwork laid were those folks tapping in to some sort of non-local information system where the egg rigor of the human ask alien everyone just sort of coming together. Yeah, comes together in the subconscious in some fashion. Are we tapping into, you know, and that happens. That's a phenomenon. The multiples phenomenon, the calculus was invented by two people at the same time or you know, the steam engine four people invented it at the same time. So there seems to be this sort of non-local sort of information system that we're drawing from and that that happens at at certain moments in in society. Things reveal themselves in different ways. I don't know. Yeah, and you know, it's a shame because at the heart of it, a lot of these experiencer phenomena at the heart of it, they're there always is like some truth. And we've seen so many examples or at least, you know, nothing we can prove, but where the initial experience, you know, I'm usually pretty high conviction on. But then after that, there's like the more, you know, fantastical stuff that keeps happening. And is Andy from that UFO pod what I was chatting to I think recently and he's he had a really good analogy. It was like, if my son came up to me and said, "Dad, I flipped the bottle and it landed. I did the bottle flip and I landed." And then, you know, I know he's not to believe him. But then if every day after that, he's like, "But I flipped it twice and it landed on the head." And then I did a back flip and I flipped it and it's like, and you got to keep believing him. Eventually, it kind of go, I don't know if I can believe all of this. Yeah. And then it takes away from the initial bottle flip. Exactly. And then people throw the baby out with the bath water. And that's just kind of a tragedy. Yeah. But we're going to get, you know, we're going to get all that. Yeah. It's going to be part of it. Well, I appreciate you coming on this podcast and having with me not only that I appreciate spending time with me and and and I really enjoyed it. It was super fun. Yeah. Man, it was it's a there's a bit of cathartic in there too. I'm glad. Well, you're welcome anytime. I hope you get you find some resolve through this through the release of your book, which is going to be greatly anticipated. Let me know when that comes out and I'll be happy to scream to the top of my lungs. It's a fantastic read. I'm not just saying that it really is well written. Thanks. Yeah. And I've learned of a bunch of new cases because of it. So it was very exciting for me. I love that. I love digging up the stuff. But I really appreciate it. It's such a great couple of days and this really neat, really neat to be in the skiff. Thanks for having me. Really? Well, it means a lot. Pleasure's all mine.