Holiday Special 2022

How do I open again? Welcome. What is this show? What are we doing welcome to how I built this welcome now? No, nothing against how I built this, but that's not a start Welcome to this special episode of acquired the podcast about great technology companies and the stories and playbooks behind them I'm Ben Gilbert, and I am the co-founder and managing director of Seattle based Pioneer Square Labs and our venture fund PSL ventures and I'm David Rosenthal and I'm an angel investor based in San Francisco But today then you are hosting me at your lovely home here in Seattle. Welcome to the studio It's great to be here. And we are your hosts Oh, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, happy holidays, happy holidays Man, I don't know about you, but ready to put a bow on 2022 Well, we have much to talk about. Yeah Well, listen is normally I have like a script like a thing that I'm looking at in front of me to know what to say now But I don't really on this one other than to say join the slack. There are great people there including probably you if you're listening to this episode We don't think this is an entry point for a lot of people into acquired We think this is probably if you're a fan You're going to listen to this, but I don't think this is going to be anyone sort of first show So we're going to try and go a little a little deeper and nerdyer than normal We've got a little agenda. We're going to recap 2022 for the show for tech for us Talk a little bit about what's ahead in 2023. We've got some extra extra fun carveouts indeed All right listeners now is a great time to tell you about a long time friend of the show Vanta AI has scrambled the whole security picture It used to be that you proved that you were secure once a year on audit or a static PDF Then everyone would not and you're done But in an AI first world that doesn't hold up anymore. 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They're the leading agentic trust platform meaning they've built the thing that closes the gap And the way that they close that gap is Vanta agent think of it as a GRC engineer That's governance risk and compliance except that it's software and it doesn't sleep It finds the issues drafts the fixes and cuts the time that you'd spend on vendor assessments in half in half Which is exactly why more than 16,000 companies today run on Vanta companies like ramp cursor and snowflake All-stay audit ready and catch the risks that crop up between audits across every vendor every AI tool the whole environment And that's the real value trust has to be continuous now which is why Vanta automates your security your compliance and the work to earn and prove trust We're huge fans of Vanta over here and literally hundreds of acquired listeners have become Vanta customers at their companies over the years So you can get a thousand dollars off Vanta at Vanta comm slash acquired. That's V-A-N-T-A dot com slash acquired for a thousand dollars off and just tell them that Ben and David sent you With that, this is not investment advice. This is probably the episode of the year where we will come closest to Things that might be interpreted as investment advice as we talk about things that we have liked and didn't like and predict the future and all that So do your own research. All right, David. Where are we starting with? All right, I think we got a recap 2022 despite the craziness of the year of 2022 in the broader world tech markets economy. This is a pretty great year for the show I have down here my Signature acquired episodes and favorite memories from the air we started the year with Taylor Swift. Yes. Isn't that crazy that that was this year? January that feels like three years ago. Well, we knew that at the end of the year she was going to drop midnight It seemed appropriate that in the year where she was going to put on the Concert and announce the tickets for the concert series with the most amid in human history that we should of course kick the year off with a Taylor episode predicting the future as usual here on acquired. I think 2023 I need to line her up for a follow-up. We should do an acquired session with Taylor. Naturally. Taylor. We'll come to you We'll come to your studio. Or maybe the long pond. Yeah, long pond. Great. I was reflecting on this is pretty crazy that I think that the announcement was that they had 900 stadiums worth of demand Showing up to ticketmaster.com and there's 50 shows I think it's something like 35 stadiums, but a lot of them have two nights like there's two nights in Seattle here and I'm sure not all 900 stadiums worth can be counted as like actual demand like I have to imagine when You know, there's a U2 concert or something. There are a hundred stadiums worth of demand for 50 shows or something like that So clearly not necessarily all purchase intent or not all purchase intent at the available prices, but still There was just no way to service the amount of demand like I actually don't know how you solve this problem Do you make all tickets $10,000 so that you actually find the correct price equilibrium for the demand? You know kind of like we were talking about on our most recent episode with Ben Thompson and Stratekery and he's like the obvious thing that I should do is race Prices to maximize revenue, but then that's pretty quickly going to lead to limiting my reach and impact I think Taylor cares a lot about her reach and impact and She could probably make the most money on this tour by having $10,000 tickets exclusively and still fill all 50 stadiums I don't know what the price maybe $2,000 tickets. She could do it But if you're playing for a 50-year career, then you sort of have to like Nurture the fan base over time and recognize that the right if she did that would be like That would truly be a farewell tour because that would create so much right off into the sunset So much negative reaction, which of course would create even more demand if you knew it was her farewell tour This is making me think they would reflecting back on that episode 11 months ago So I don't remember exactly everything we said, but I don't remember Talking as much about the obvious point that this raises for me, which is Taylor is a rock star In the internet she's probably like the first really really big Internet rock star and the thing about the internet is the markets are bigger than you can ever imagine The demand is larger than you can ever imagine even in niche products like like first-ratekery or for acquired Like these niches are bigger than you could ever imagine now think about a mainstream pop star So the internet enables two things it enables the niches to exist So there's way more artists that can make a living today I think then if you think back to like the 60s or something where the labels would pick the 10 bands of the year And that's kind of it But why is it that Taylor Swift is bigger than the Beatles like would the Beatles have had this much demand too when The only promotion that existed was from the labels in a sort of like the labels picked the winners and then Those are the winners world Well, there's multiple things going on here like one is the Disintermediation or at least the reduction of power of the middle men of the Labels yep and everything else in the middle of the value chain and like so much more the value is now accruing directly To Taylor, but that's not an argument for why there's so much more demand to see There also is a lot more demand for Taylor than there was for the Beatles Just because the internet having several ways to reach a customer means that the most popular artist in the world is going to have Just way more distribution Period way more distribution way more touch points the labels. There's also so much less friction right as hard as it was in all the news But how hard it was to get tickets to these Taylor concerts Everybody knew when they were going on sale that it was happening right through social media and the mainstream media amplifying that And it was hard to secure a ticket, but very easy to log on to ticket master or maybe not that easy But compared to I don't even know how you would have gotten a ticket to a Beatles show Back in the day, I assume you have to like go to the stadium box office and line up That day that they're going on sale and you would only know when they're going on sale because of radio ads and print ads Maybe you read about it in the newspaper This is a thing I was thinking about when I was caught up in the Friday night Is it Friday night whenever it was that people are like Twitter's going down like it's going to basically turn off tomorrow and I like Mentally new This is a system that would degrade slowly and fade into a relevance not It's going to turn off tomorrow But putting myself in the headspace of Twitter doesn't exist soon I was like how would I know if stuff Is taking off? How will I know what the general consensus is around something? How will I know that The tenor has shifted and this thing is not interesting anymore and that thing is interesting What I start reading the New York Times many times a day and going deep into many of the sections I'm certainly not going to log out if they really even get that same kind of Experience or understanding from that super kind of centralized publication correct And it's the centralization that makes it like less valuable I you'd never be able to like say oh nobody's talking about that Because the New York Times is not a place where you go to find out if people are talking about something. It's a place where you get news. And so you'd literally have to, like, in-person go to events and have a bunch of conversations to know what people are talking about. Okay, Twitter doesn't exist tomorrow. Where do you go to find out what people in the world are talking about right now? I think it's TikTok. Yeah, but I think it would be a much less efficient experience because it's all video. The number of new tidbits of information you can consume per minute in Twitter is high and reasonably low in TikTok. Yep. It's 10 to 20 versus 2 to 3. Yep. All right, well, I don't know how we got from T-Swift to. Yeah, it's a hot and special dude. It's a hot and special dude. Yeah, format-less. Except for the pre-robust format that you fleshed out here. Well, you know, yeah, I can't not prepare for that episode, even a holiday special. Okay, next one on my list. Sony. Sony Corporation. Which I didn't think would be that interesting when we started doing that. It was your idea to do it, right? I know. It was, but I found myself being like, "God, is this actually an interesting company?" I had wanted to read made in Japan because I'd heard it was amazing. But as I looked back at like trademark acquired episodes, TSMC, The New York Times, like I just didn't think it would be one of those. And it very clearly, especially in the numbers, did become one of those. It has it all. I mean, it has the genius founder. It has the. Probably the most adversity that we've ever talked about in any founding story in all the acquired. It's really hard to think offhand of a greater adversity that a company and founders have ever come than Japan in 1945. It also has so many chapters. I mean, the craziest thing to me is, if you look at the business, as of the time we did the episode, they had five separate business units, all of which did a double-digit percentage of their revenue. So it's super diverse. And all of which did a double-digit percentage of their operating income. So you have five businesses that are all reasonably the same size in top and bottom line in one house. Well, and that we got well over two hours into the episode before we mentioned PlayStation. And then the PlayStation story, in and of itself, we could do an episode on it. I mean, the fact that we got from Rice Cookers and World War II to that crazy Kota about Spider-Man is nuts. In the back of my mind have been percolating, it could be fun to do a whole episode just on Xbox. A, we need to do a Microsoft series at some point. We've talked a lot about and around Microsoft on the show, but we've never covered Microsoft and Apple. We've not done Microsoft. We've not done Google. We have not done the Google IPO. Apple, Google, Oracle. If we just wanted to cheat, and like spike the numbers as much as possible, we just like take the whole next season and just do you know, fang basically. I think we should do one of those companies a year, not even a season, I think one a year. It's going to take three episodes to do each one. We were able to fit Amazon into two episodes, but Amazon is only a what 27 year old company. And we didn't talk about a bunch of stuff. That was the way we skipped it. We didn't really talk about Alexa at all. Sorry everybody, if we just lit up here. Although I think there's enough voice personalization in those devices that if a piece of media says the A word, I don't think it lights up anymore. Well, it might be because I have the Sonos ones and the firmware and the Sonos ones is different than the ones that Amazon actually makes, but mine will just like light up when people say things that are not that word and are just like in a movie, like when dialogue sounds too much like that. Like that word. Yeah, interesting. Here's my proposal. I think we should do one of these big tech companies a year for two reasons. One, you know, for Microsoft, for Apple, I think those are going to be three plus episodes to do it, right? Yeah. Even at acquired length episodes. So it's a huge lift. But also, I think we should spread it out. Like you said, you know, the cheat code would be if we just do them all back to back. Right. But we have a diversity of interest here on acquired. We want to go for many years. I even have a lot of fear around like doing a three part Microsoft series where like are people going to be like, I'm just out for the next three months. Because next year listeners, what we've decided is this is a little bit approximate, but we're going to average it every month. We're going to do a season episode and a special. So either a season being like Apple part one or a special being an interview with someone or an acquired sessions or something that kind of doesn't fit the normal format. And like that literally means that it's like, oh, you're doing a three part Microsoft thing. Well, I'm out for Q one on acquired. I actually think about this. I've experienced this on one of my carve outs for extended carve outs later. One of my favorite video game podcasts, Resident Arc. They're a video game story, book club. So they choose a game. Yep. And then they'll do, you know, 10 to 20 episodes playing through the game, dissecting the story, although like literary, from a literary perspective. It's really quite a lot of it. But if they choose a game that I don't have a large affinity for, then it's anywhere from one to two months that I'm not listening to that show. Right. And three months is certainly long enough for someone to permanently change behavior. I don't think it's good for us if someone decides to take a three month break from acquired, because it's not 100% chance they come back. Yeah, we got to think about the right way to do this. Maybe I'm too focused on the downside. And maybe it will turn out that like, well, we may alienate some people. It's the largest thing in acquired history, because I was shocked that we'll keep going here on big episodes, but that the Amazon episode was by far the biggest in acquired history. When David pitched me on this idea, I was like, hmm, I don't know. Brad Stone has written some excellent books on this. There's been documentaries. Jeff Bezos is the most studied CEO in the world, I think until this recent Elon madness, what can we bring to the world in the Amazon? Which by the way, I think that has become this year, something's crystallized for me about acquired and the show and what we do. I think that should always be our lens. Like, what can we add by doing? Because there's lots of voices out there saying lots of things. Spoiler alert, this is part of why we haven't covered Twitter because like, there's nothing new to add. All the best tech journalists in the world are covering it every single day. I mean, you have Matt Levine, you have Dan Primack, every single day, they're reporting the newest thing with not just reporting, but true analysis behind it. You have then Ben Thompson, the following day, writing a reaction piece that's like, here's my even more thoughtful take on what happened. You have Casey Newton who has a whole platform dedicated to this and a bunch of access and a bunch of insiders sending of stuff, breaking it real time on Twitter. So it was one of these things where we're like, there's no daylight here for us to talk about it. We actually felt the same way about FTX, which I mean, you could argue that we did have a part to play in FTX because Sam was on the show last year, but like, there was so much good coverage and good reporting going on and we're not reporters and we don't do stuff in real time, blah, blah, blah, that it felt like the right way to have acquired add to the conversation is go do 100 hours of research on and Ron and try and sort of indirectly draw as many parallels as we can. Like we don't want to hit people over the head with like, this is just like an FTX where they had this. It's more like, how can we bring up ideas for people that they can draw their own parallels? It's been interesting to watch this past week. Who knows if it was coincidental or not, but I think at least two major news outlets have run pieces in the past week with a title like how FTX compares to NRON. It was obvious. It's obvious to draw that parallel. They were probably in the works anyway. Is it worth sharing more on that now? Yeah, listen, this is a holiday special. We can break the format. Yeah. Every time people write us in and they're like, oh, you got to do a take on this. It's like, I almost never have a take in real time. Yeah. That's not what we do. I suppose the traditional acquired format of a company buying another company. We are some of the most well-positioned people in the world to have a take on why that acquisition happened, what will make it go well, what could kill it? Just like you killed grading this season, which by the way, I love that I was so surprised. It has its place sometimes. Yeah, yeah. But like, things seem to evolve. Next year is going to be our eighth year into the show. Yeah. I thought Ben Thompson just said it perfectly on our most recent episode with him where he was like, you know, when I was young, I used to think when I got old that I would like still be cool and I would never be one of those old people. And now that I'm old, I'm like, an old quote unquote, you know, relatively. Now that I'm older, I think two things. One being old is pretty great. And two, I look at my peers who are still trying to be young and it just looks kind of sad. Like, you got to change. You got to evolve. And the show has changed and evolved to a point where I think like, we are a different show than the show that used to do. Oh, breaking, you know, emergency pod on. Whole Foods got bought today. Cancel everything today so we can do some quick research. There are times where it still makes sense for us to do those. Like John Fully bringing in a new CEO, the Barry McCarthy connection. And that is just take that as not aged well. Yeah, I think you're right. That it's okay that we're something different now than than what the show was. I'm curious what everybody listening thinks. Yeah. Last point on this FTX saga, which again, we're watching it play out in real time. I don't know that that's where acquired shines because we try to make evergreen pieces that sort of stand the test of time. And like every week, it's so different than it was the previous week. These are kind of excuses. We probably just should directly say we He totally had Sam on. and we'd wanted to tell the extraordinary story of FTX, which was extraordinary. I mean, now in a different way than we thought. - You could not argue that it is an extraordinary story. - I do want to say I'm sorry if the exposure that FTX got from acquired and every other publication of the web, but from acquired, we used our platform to Sam and to FTX. And yeah, I do feel bad about that. I don't think there's any way we could've known at the time and I don't want to stop having interesting people and companies on the show, up and coming company. So, but yeah, it sucks. I'm like a lot of people lost a lot of money. - Yeah. So sorry if you were like on the fence on FTX and you were like, I don't know if this thing's legit or not and then acquired legitimize that for you. Next. - Just to, if you have not listened to the Sony episode, I'm sure most of you have, but like, it's so good. Oh my gosh. Talk about like the office of the front. - We made this thing. It's amazing. You should listen. - Sorry. - The Sony story. - The Sony story. - The Sony story. Whether you like our telecom it or not, but just like it is a vastly underappreciated company and an underappreciated journey overcoming adversity. - Yep. - Okay, Sony, dude, we did Nvidia this year. We did a lot this year. - Yeah, trying to think which of our silicon episodes I feel the strongest about in terms of enlightening me about the way the world works. I think it's first TSMC, but Nvidia is, the thing that's the most interesting about the Nvidia story, I think is Jensen bet the company three separate times and truly bet the company. Like, if this initiative fails, it will go to zero. And it worked three separate times. The first time is when they shipped the card in whatever it was nine months instead of two years and they designed the whole thing in emulation, never tested it and shipped it to customers. And it worked. I mean, it worked enough. And maybe I'm forgetting the story and its entirety, but I think there was a bet the company moment around programmable shaders and then a third one around the like seven year investment before the market was there in AI and CUDA and building their own developer ecosystem. - Obviously open AI existed. Trying to remember if Dolly was out at the time when we did the Nvidia episode. - Certainly GP, she's good enough. - Well, interestingly enough, I think Dolly one was, but it got no acclaim. - Right. - The one that lit the world on fire was Dolly too. - Was Dolly too, yep. But now as we record this chat GPT came out last week, like we were thinking about the AI Renaissance and how important AI is like just in a general sense when we did those episodes. - Nvidia stock had that crazy run long before we did the episode. Like two years before we did the episode, at the beginning of COVID. And so it's interesting that I don't think that was around gaming. I think that was around AI. The thing that was sort of selling that story. And so in a way, the like craziest Nvidia bulls that were sort of buying at the top and selling the story as much as humanly possible, one ended at peak, I don't know, late 2021 maybe. They were kind of right. I don't think they knew that the next year would make AI's developments as obvious as it has. But everybody who believed that AI was gonna be this complete step change in the way that we use computers and decided that buying Nvidia at a very high price was the way to endorse that belief. Like that ended up happening very quickly soon after. - Yeah. The moment when it really hit me was when we were recording the LP episode that we did with Jelle at Mutiny. And that's just kind of literally, was like, "Oh yeah, we have a GPT-3 based feature in our product." - Right, and I was like, "Whoa, okay, you are dynamically rewriting copy on your customer's websites using GPT-3." Okay, that kind of blows my mind. - Yeah. - Like I can now see the business use cases for this. - You say you can see them, but we're in this very interesting moment where we've all seen three pretty amazing proof of concepts in the last six months. We saw Dolly2, GPT-3, and NowChat, GPT, which to me is actually the most interesting because the most meaningful changes that it changed the modality that you interact with the AI model, but it's either the same or I think it's like GPT-3 and a half or something. It's a very similar model, but we're interacting with it in a new way and it's stateful rather than being stateless as in it sort of can preserve state and you can ask it more questions about. And so I think there's a little bit of a like a crypto moment here where it's the first time someone explains to you a decentralized world computer. You're like, "Whoa, that unlocks a whole world of possibilities." And you say, "What are they?" And someone says, "Let me think about that." - Yeah, yeah. - I feel very similar with chat GPT right now. I'm looking at I'm like, "Whoa, this unlocks a whole world of possibilities." And someone says, "What is it?" And I'm like, "I feel better than I did about the decentralized world computer, but I still can't articulate to you like when the App Store launched." Like, "Oh, this will be an $80 billion on demand car service market." That that's not. - Well, I think this is just naturally how markets play out though, right? Like, we look back now and we're like, "Oh, when the App Store launched, it was obvious." But was it at the time? - I think we probably would have felt very similarly back in that moment of like, "Oh, apps on your phone." Cool. - When I first saw the iPhone, I thought this device changes everything 'cause I was like, "I wanted one so bad." - Ah, so bad. - I had a core card in Cisco. - So many times between the keynote and when it was like six months before the phone came out, I was so hyped for it. - I just remember seeing the device in my coworker's desk at Cisco and thinking like, "I need one of these things." This is like so much of the money that I have would be used to buy one. So I think I bought the 3G the next year or six months in or something. - Well, I got one day one. I didn't camp out overnight, but I waited in line for hours. I got day one release. I got the original one. I just graduated from college. It was the summer I graduated. I graduated, but I hadn't started work yet, but I had my signing bonus. And I was like, "This is where I am spending my money." - I waited in line just to wait in line. Like, I went to the App Store and I didn't buy one? - I didn't have enough money. I was 17, 18. - Well, that's great 'cause you had to pay full price. - There was no carrier subsidization for the original iPhone. - Correct. And so it was fun. I brought my little point and shoot camera. I took pictures of all the people getting their first iPhones and playing with them and setting up. - Did your dad go with you? - No, I want my friend, George. I remember feeling like this device is amazing. I remember really wanting to make apps for it. So I made this to-do list app. - I would make apps until the next year. - Right. I sort of missed that whole first year of like, you can't make apps. I don't think I was thinking about it then, but like the app that I made was a to-do list. It's not like I was like, oh my God, this is gonna be a way that you can hail cars or order groceries or it was like, let me do the smallest possible thing on this. And I think that's actually just how I think about products. I'm not a Travis Kalinik-like person. I think I always sort of think in terms of like, what product can I fully conceptualize of and see in my head and understand all the hard stuff involved in it and draw a nice neat box around it and just work towards shipping that thing that I can fully imagine. It's almost like I wanna be able to do everything myself, which is why I think acquired has sort of come out the way that it has rather than us doing a bunch of hard stuff. I very much shy away from like, ooh, you'd have to like send a bunch of people into grocery stores and like figure out all their inventory to like load it, I just wouldn't do that. But the idea of like, okay, there's this really nice neat package called an acquired episode and it contains these components and David and I can make it ourselves. - What do you think the, what would have happened otherwise would be if we did the hard stuff? Well, like one thing we've been very explicit about and a trade-off for the show and acquired as an entity and a business is we don't wanna have a lot of employees, we don't wanna be a team, we don't wanna have. - There are even more shows. I think we would have tried to turn it into a network. We would have taken people up on the book offers. There could be like a Netflix show, there could be. - I'm trying to think, is there anything we could have done or still do that would just be like a fundamentally different thing, like everything you're describing would be building a gimlet or the like and like. - Yep. - That would be great, you know, we probably would make more money, but that's like not what we wanna do. But is there anything that would be like an Uber versus a to-do app? - It depends what on the believability spectrum you're willing to call part of acquired. Like we could have launched a new podcast app for acquired another podcast and then try to-- - We talked about it with Glow. - We did, Glow is originally gonna be a new app with payments built in. - That would have been a boondoggle. - Yeah, I'll validate your point. When the app store first came out, you could stare at it and go this is gonna change everything, but it was only to select few people who actually saw the particular massive use case with the new thing. - Yep. - And that's how I feel about chat GBT right now. Like this thing's scary powerful and I don't actually know what to do with it yet. - Yeah, most people I think are also in the same mode that you and I are of like, oh, I can see how this could rewrite copy dynamically on a website. - Right, and I see that being, but that's the to-do list version of what-- - Right, I can do. - Yep. Yeah, this is fun. We're only like halfway through the year too. Okay. So we did in video. Yep. That was so fun and I learned so much and Now it's just so much more important almost like T-Swap to do the same dynamic. Yep then We did Amazon and one I include Walmart in Amazon. I'm so Glad we did Walmart first. That's why I have in my head I was like did we do two episodes of the Amazon or three? We really did three. Yeah Episode one was Walmart. Yep. In order to understand the role of Retail in America today, you sort of first need to understand that everything we think of as a retailer Or most things we think of as retailer are actually discounters. Yes, and I totally didn't get that before doing the Walmart episode I was like, well, there's like stores like Walmart and Target and there's department stores Which are like more expensive and opinionated and then the brands that have sort of their own stores But like I didn't conceptualize that The most commonplace that you buy things are actually discounters and Walmart Was really the company that single-handedly created the wave of the modern store period. Yep Which then Amazon could take digital Yes. Yes. Well, and I was so blown away Learning about with Walmart. How much of a tech company they were Like I think we sit on the episode and I still think that they were the first applied technology company in America I think this is a silly. I think you've said this a few times now. I don't I don't agree with that Okay, like it is okay. So technology at its purest definition is anything that Enhances the productivity of a human So like the wheel is technology because what the same number of calories burned you're able to go farther Or a navigational instrument, which means you're able to get somewhere in a shorter amount of time So I mean, maybe you could go a bit to like apply digital technology What makes me want to say that is they were a company who did business in an established sector. Yep, and they transformed the way They worked and ultimately the whole sector by applying technology to it So did standard oil by applying technology to the old way that you used to extract oil from the ground Fair enough. I mean, I guess like you could say the car companies or the lighting the way people light their homes But those I guess the distinction I'm trying to draw which may not be a valid one is I think in all those cases the business was the technology Here it was a separate existing part of the economy that they were in that business And they used technology to transform the way they do it. Maybe it's a meaningless distinction It's interesting. I just feel like today like Walmart would have been like a hot venture back startup Well, it's interesting the question with tech applying technology to an existing market is always What are you using the technology for I always think about this with tech enabled businesses? Okay, what are you using technology for and how does it make your Financial statements of your business at maturity look better? Are you using it to consolidate back office operations to make your company more operationally efficient and thus lower your cost structure and thus with the same amount of revenue you just run at better margins Were you using it because you're able to Get better distribution like the internet enables you to generate way more revenue because you're able to reach way more customers on The same set of costs and so I always think about it as like what are you actually using technology for in your business and does that make it a meaningfully better business than Non-tech enabled incumbents. I think there's a lot of stuff in the world today that is a tech-enabled thing Yeah, that is not all that tech enabled when you look at the financials. Yeah, but Walmart is a perfect example of a Tech-enabled business that is like the right way to do it and why what previously large number did it collapse in their financials to a small number because of technology? well certainly the Coordination of the distribution yep, and the way Walmart built their supply chain was vastly different than all of the There to four traditional retailers and way more efficient and made their financials work in a way that just wouldn't work for other other retailers Legitimately enabled them to have lower prices to get more customers. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's a strong argument Agreed to disagree that they were the first that sort of like rock technology, but uh, but yeah, that's a good point benchmark Benchmark Benchmark was super cool. I mean that like a pinch me moment for you and I both I think we should lean into that format as much as possible going forward of We tell a story and then we have the protests on I think acquired has been a bunch of iterations to find our way to that format That does feel like the platonic ideal of an acquired a way acquired talks about a topic I do think it's probably you and I spending three hours diving deep from everything we can find telling the story in the way that we Sort of see it. I used to think oh, well, we can make us different and better is we're gonna spend more time preparing Than any other interviewer. We're gonna take this super seriously. We only do one of these interviews a month This is like which is a tactic not a strategy exactly and like Yeah, we probably do more preparation for our interviews than 80 90% of other interviewers out there, but there are other really good interviewers like Ben Thompson Yep, Patrick, I'm gonna see exactly, but what we did with benchmark that's something that only we can uniquely do Interesting. I only is aggressive, but it's something that our Format and the set of trade-offs that we make in our business Makes it easier for us to do that than for someone else I always think about strategy is about trade-offs like what's the original Michael Porter journal entries called competitive strategy and it's great It's like if anyone who hasn't read it it was in the Harvard Business Review I think when it first came out something like 20 pages. It's very code and it's very straightforward and He talks a lot about how There's operational efficiency and there's strategy and operational efficiency is we're just gonna be better We're gonna be more efficient. We're gonna do it for cheaper costs You and I are gonna do more research than anybody else, but there's real strategy which is trade-offs, right? It's the South West model strategy. Right. There's sort of the Southwest model of like we are going to have a different model for where we keep planes Then every other airline we're not gonna use the hub and spoke model we're gonna Every where that we fly to in a constraint set of places that we fly to is going to be a Sudo hub for us and we're gonna Keep our planes sort of diversified and we're only gonna have one model of airplanes So that way they're easier to service and there's a whole bunch of trade-offs involved with that But that's our strategy even though it's comes a lot of downsides We're gonna lean into the upsides and I think like the lean-in to the upsides thing for us is if you're doing a super high velocity show benchmarks probably not gonna feel like You're giving them a unique spotlight in a way to do something like that if you Do things that may or may not enable deep trust from listeners Then there's people that are not gonna want to come on the show because they don't know how they're gonna come across But if you always sort of lean into this we have very few guests We Think they're people that you really should hear from which by the way This is why the sbf thing burns me up so much is cuz like we try to be ridiculously selective Then it enables you to Create content with people that otherwise are not going to go do the circuit Yep, not to mention when we do three hours of content about the thing before it Nables us to come in with that prepared. That's what I was gonna say to you. There's an element in the case of the benchmark episodes It actually was all pre-planned in advance that we were gonna do the episode just us and then we were gonna do the dinner with them That was planned before we even released the first episode but I do that we've experienced in the past with the show there are times where we will Engage with a company or a CEO or a firm before having done any acquired content on them and they're like they don't engage fully Right and then we do an episode just us and then it completely changes. Yeah, the tenor of the conversation Yeah, it's like being willing to do the work to prove that you're as serious about caring about this topic as you say you are And by us having the format of you and I just doing these deep dives on companies That is a differentiated strategy than an interview show. Yep Okay, and Ron kind of talked about it. It's super recent. I have nothing to add other than one I think it's fun to add little corrections and additions as we go through here Yeah, we've got a few of these on the and Ron one I neglected to point out that there is a company today called and Ron oil and gas That's like an 80 billion dollar company publicly traded as eo g Yeah, listener wrote e-mailed us about this yep That's the upstream production business so the oil and gas industry over the last 30 years is sort of fragmented into upstream and Downstream and and midstream. Oh, I think that makes sense and I think eo g is sort of their upstream business that spun off But it is a publicly traded company that still bears the Adron name. Yeah, I should have looked this up Did they change the name officially to eo g or is the actual name? I don't know. That's a good question good question. It is actually called EOG resources, like the name of the company is EOG. That makes sense. Like the Accenture to Arthur Anderson. Yeah. Although there is, after many rebrands and iterations, some subset of Arthur Anderson was preserved as a tax organization that is now called Anderson Tax again. Interesting. Yeah. Because I guess tax is separate from audit, right? They had tax audit and consulting. And consulting became Accenture. I assume audit is went away entirely. And I think they spun off tax in its own new name that is now Anderson Tax. Anderson Tax. Interesting. Which is crazy to me that there was enough brand equity in Anderson left to sort of go great. You would have thought that there's got to be a story there. It could be an LP episode. All right, listeners. Now is a great time to thank our longtime friend of the show ServiceNow. If you are running a large enterprise, AI agents are likely spread across every team and deploying them is no longer the hard part. Yeah. The hard part is knowing what permissions they have, what employees are using them for, or what decisions AI is making. AI security for an enterprise at scale is not a small concern. Like the risks are real. Exactly. And the challenge with AI is governing it, securing it, measuring it, and making sure that it actually delivers value. That is why ServiceNow built the AI Control Tower. Yep. AI Control Tower gives enterprises a single place to see, manage, govern, and optimize AI across the entire business. And it works with any AI, not just theirs. Every device on your network, every permission across every system, every AI agent visible and secure in one place. And ServiceNow can do this because they've spent more than 20 years building the operational backbone of the enterprise, the workflows, governance, approval, security controls, and institutional knowledge that power how work actually gets done across IT, HR, customer service, finance, and security. ServiceNow already runs more than 100 billion workflows annually and trillions of transactions for more than 85% of the Fortune 500. So when companies need a place to govern AI at enterprise scale, they're building on a platform at the center of how their business already operates. And in a future that isn't going to be one AI, it's going to be thousands of AI agents working across every function of the company. But the question is, who's managing them all? So if you're trying to turn AI ambition into real business outcomes and make it work safely, securely at scale, go check out ServiceNow.com/acquired and tell them that Ben and David said, "We talked a minute ago about trade-offs when we were talking about the Ben's work, two-parter. What in your mind are the biggest trade-offs that we make here on acquired?" I think we make a ton of trade-offs. I think we are a maybe two-of-fault purist organization. That's the first and more two people. Or you'll look at the whole organization here. Not a lot of content, right? A common wisdom is to release content every week. We don't do that, that has downsides such as it's hard to become a top show in the charts. If you're not constantly producing new content, it works against the algorithms. But it has upsides of now we can go do really, really deep research. A second one being really long episodes. That's a massive trade-off. Like lots of people don't want to listen to you when you do that. But the people who do really like it. Another one being people often ask like you do another show, bring another host. You could leverage the podcast feed to promote other episodes of your new spin-off show with your new host where you have some of the economics of that. There's like a lack of purity to me that that's not acquired then. That's I don't know why we would do that. It doesn't fit in the box. It's one of those things where it's like sure you could make more money doing that, but it goes in the two-hard pile. I think you and I have a really big two-hard pile. In some ways that's strategy. It's like if you actually believe in the set of trade-offs that you have, then you have to be willing to have a really big two-hard pile. When there's a lot of people telling you there's low-hanging fruit to be done, but often that low-hanging fruit is counter to your strategic trade-offs. It's interesting. I feel like you've always been this way, I think, in your life. I'm cranky. You're so you're not cranky though. You're wonderful. But I'm cranky about things like this. You're a personickity. You're not cranky. I'm a personickity. Yes, for sure. Jerry Seinfeld said it really well on the Tim Ferris show, which is one of the best podcast interviews in history. That's my first carve out of the way. Tim asked of like how does he come up with all the bits like how does he observe things and his comment is there's so many things that annoy me. I sit there and all I can see in the world is all the things are like a little bit wrong and that just really bother me and then I write them down and then I polish, polish, polish, polish. And I'm not Jerry Seinfeld and I don't it's not to that extent, but like very different application. Right. But it's similar. Like we ship an acquired episode. All I can see are the 16 ways that we could have made it better. I'm proud that it's out there, but like really all I can see are the flaws. I think my hunch is right that you've always been this way. Yes. I've become much more this way over time. I used to be not this way at all. I used to be like I believe you can do everything trade-offs like the older Jim Moore, the cult's coach of the playoffs like playoffs like trade-offs and trade-offs. As I become older though, like I completely have shafted and embraced trade-offs. Oh yeah, you don't even answer email. I mean, it's honestly crazy. It's like a joke now. Yeah. It's not a joke, but I'm trying to get a hold of it. I know. I feel so bad. The only person I feel bad about with it is you. I really you bear a huge brunt to that. Thank you. You're also pretty good about like I said I was going to be done working today at six. And so I'm just like not really doing anything after six, even if the text look kind of important. That's fine. Well, that's called parenthood, but yeah, that's true. Yeah, parenthood is probably forced you to lean into some of that more. Yes. I was leaning this way anyway for sure, but like it was like a massive like title wave by. I felt like I was at like a water park like in a wave machine came along and like I was heading this direction anyway, floating along, and then just like whoosh. The issue now that now that you're doing it pretty aggressively is you and I amplify each other because I have this thing where I'm like, oh, this is a thing that David would say, like not worth it. Like this is like probably a good time to talk about this. We did a lot of live stuff this year. Yeah, let's talk about this. And like some of which were super cool. Like there were some amazing wonder opportunities we got in 2022. But for lots of reasons, they're way harder than doing you're in my normal thing. And are they worth it? Are they that much incrementally better for how much harder they are for us? Probably not. In almost all cases, there are cases where it is, but in almost all cases, no. And so I think this is one of the things where like you inspire me to be more persnickety. You ask the question. And then I went to a place of like, oh, well, that's easy. We should not do anything live because the juice is almost never worth the squeeze, which is probably too far. Like there's probably some middle ground where it's like, if pitch book offers us the ability to do another arena show, like, oh my god, we should do an arena show. But the litany of things that make this way harder and frankly, way less listenable after the fact that it's actually the worst product most of the artifacts of, so let's recount this sort of like cool live stuff we did this year. We did the arena show. It still is like surreal. I can't say that without laughing. Pinch me moment, at least number two of the year. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. We then also did a big live show in another country for the first time. Yep. Uh, in, uh, in Bordeaux, uh, with Salana at breakpoint. That was a whole another crazy set of experience and amazing. Yep. Uh, we did the LP show live at the TCV event. Yep. The benchmark dinner, although it wasn't a live public event. The amount of production effort there totally. I was down to Mexico for three days. We set up three cameras. We bought a bunch of new microphones. We tested all the microphones. Big production lift. Big, big production lift. I mean, guests. So things that make production harder. Guests. Yes. Total wild card. They might cancel on you. They might reschedule blah, blah, blah. They might not use the equipment. We send them. Yes. In person changes it way harder. Like you and I are sitting here now. It took an extra hour to set this up. To have this beautiful roaring fire next to us. We haven't even mentioned. Yeah. These three cameras, although now that I'm looking at it, there's only two cameras on because here's a trade-off we make. We don't have an engineer. We don't have a sound person or a video person who works with us. So if you've been watching this on video for, I don't know how long the last like, I'm going to guess that thing shut off half hour ago. We lost their camera. So talk about trade-offs. And especially in I knew I said a bruh my camera especially in shooting stuff like live in person. There's a whole new web of things that could go wrong that just don't happen when it's you and I on zoom. Yep. Now at a live audience that massively compounds it. First of all, the sound quality is going to be way worse. So that bothers me as a personickity person. The audience gets antsy in their seats because no one can sit still for four hours. No one wants to attend a four hour. But I mean, when you're at a sporting event, you have time, quarters, you go get concessions, you whatever. So it makes the product different. And I think worse for the 150 plus thousand people who are going to listen after the fact. So it's this interesting compromise where for all those people, it's a worse product. But for the people in the room, that's what we're optimizing for in the moment. And I don't even know that we optimized for that. It's so funny. My bad, they're in a show. So like, let's just take a step back, it was so cool. - Amazing. - It was so cool and everybody who came, the fact that so many people came and flew in from all over the world. - Yeah, we did a Brooks run with people in the morning. - It was so cool. - We did a dinner with some sort of like friends of the show and previous guests and sponsors that I before at Canless, who we've had on the show and that adapting episode. - It was so special. - Yeah. - But it's so, you know, looking back on what I went to talk about, 'cause you actually lived this again yourself this year, but the farther we get from it, the more in my mind and in my emotions, the space, the arena show occupies is just like Jenny and my wedding. Like all the ups, all the amazingness, special feelings of it. And like my most vivid memories looking back on both events are just a huge amount of stress and being like, are people having fun right now? Like, is this going well? Like, you know. - I mostly remember the upside of both of my wedding and the part of the episode. - I remember the upside too, but you know, but every time I think about it, I can't not think about us being on stage in the middle of the show. And when we got to Act 2 and Anu was on it, we didn't have Breaks planned. And like, people needed to go to the bathroom and get food. - And Hitchbuck was paying for all the free food and booze and everything up. And so of course, people were gonna go, like after the first act ends, it's like, okay, well now's a good time to go, take advantage of the open bar. - Of course. It was just like, oh, we should have planned that better. - I didn't know you had to do that. - Anyway, all that to say, some of the live shows we've done are the most special experiences of the year. - Yes. - They have hidden value for acquired in a bunch of ways, like getting to actually talk with real people, like getting to hang out with the thousand people that came to the arena show. Like life changingly cool to get to meet so many folks. And also. - I will always, always remember that night, especially the after party afterwards. - Yes. Walking into Queen and Beer Hall is very cool. And just hanging out for hours. And also at least 10 if not 20 times as much work for a product that I continue to believe was worse for people who listen to it than our average acquired episode. - Yeah. - So it's like, again, it's a set of trade-offs that we just have to be intentional about making next year rather than being like, ooh, that would be a fun conference just to forget. Oh my God, I forgot about Capital Camp. - Oh, Capital Camp, yeah. - That was so cool, that was cool. That was a relatively low trade-off because Patrick and Brent and Clayton and the team there, they took care of everything. - Yep, absolutely. It was different too 'cause we created a talk for it. So it was less issues because there was no guest. So there was no sort of like guest risk. But like, it was the first time I'm such a like V.C. It was a technology risk 'cause the guest risk is the guest risk. But the only thing that we had done that was similar was the acquired top 10. The best acquisitions of all time episode that we did. And so we had like a little bit of confidence that you and I could produce a sort of talk about a thing that wasn't the entire history and strategy of a company. But that was a totally new format for us. - Yeah, I'm curious what you think. I'm so glad we did Capital Camp and like, the work time was a fun switch up. But I think it was an inferior format to the normal show. Like, I was thinking like, we put together a deck for it. Like, I mean, you did most of it, but like. - It was a set of pictures. - A set of pictures, but like, I made a deck in years. (laughing) - Yeah, that was cool though. I mean, the nice thing about doing that is then we have a product we can sort of like take on the road too. I think we can share this publicly. You gave that talk again at an internal fund rise event. - Yes, which was super cool. I would love to do more of that. Like, I got to meet everybody at fund rise. Like the, you know, our biggest partner for the year. And like, the whole team, like all 300 people at the company were there at the offside. It was very cool. - All this to say, it leads me to believe that much like all the other trade-offs we make, we just need to figure out how do we 80/20 in? What are the things that we care the most about and how do we not do the long-tailed stuff? So I think it means pick like one episode per year to do a massive live show and throw the acquired Super Bowl slash wedding. And maybe once a year is even too often 'cause God, it's a lift. But two, then feel free to do a bunch of in-person stuff with our partners, with our sponsors, with people that we like work with on the show anyway and wanna just like continue to build deeper relationships with. But those aren't necessarily episodes. - Yep. That has been a huge highlight for me for the year is, I think we have found a way. I don't know that anybody would have thought it was like possible as a podcast, as a media business to like really build deeper relationships with our sponsors and our partners. - I think almost every single one of them, we did something like the fundraise all hands or a conference, and most of them now, a very large percentage of our sponsors we've invested in. - Yeah, what, five of them? - I think five, yeah. Vanta, we should talk about Vanta in a big way. Modern Treasury, vouch, mystery, standard metrics, we've invested in. - And what was standard metrics called when they sponsored? - Quaster. - Quaster. - That was the original name, yeah. - Back in the day. - Just like we, for listeners in our audience, we've always thought, I think it's been one of our core tenants from the beginning of like, we treat our audience as equals to more impressive than us. When we started the show especially, now and even the folks who are listening to us are the folks who we want to invest in, we want to do business with, we want to do. - Well, that's what eats me alive when I get something wrong in an episode, and it's a black mark to me, and I can't do anything but see it as like, I'm thinking of the people who I know listen to the show who are listening to that and thinking up, he didn't quite get that right, 'cause that's how I envision our audience. - Not that we didn't always think this way, but it's really come to be realized now. We think of our sponsors the same way as our partners as like, these are amazing companies. Like, how can we build a deeper relationship with them as possible? - Yep, totally agree. I mean, the sponsorship model is another way that we make a pretty significant trade off. So we only do six month, season long sponsorships, and we are ridiculously choosy about the people that we do that with. And because it's a six month long thing to an audience of 250,000 people that happen to be probably the most valuable audience in the world in terms of CEOs, founders, engineers, capital allocators. - Certainly the set, I mean, the set. - It would be hubris of us to claim that we singularly required to have the most, but of the, you know, our niche of media. - Right, the listeners to our niche of media, I think unquestionably are the most valuable audience in the world. - So it's a big ticket item whenever a sponsor decides that they wanna work with us for the duration, for the reach, and for the magnitude of who you're reaching when you reach them. And so it's like a big freaking commitment. And there's a trade off there in our business model, which is we're not gonna work with that many people when we do. But when we do, we wanna go as deep as possible. And so that means that we can't do things like engage with agencies, or engage with dynamic ad insertion networks, where a lot of other things that would make our lives easier, it probably also means that we can't outsource sales. Like you and I are the ones talking to the CEOs of the companies who sponsor, which again, lots of trade-offs, they're very busy people, they're often hard to get a hold of, but they're people that we get to build really real relationship with. And this is one of my favorite trade-offs, so we've made kind of like I've been saying is like, these are the types of people who we would want, anyway, to build deep relationships with. So why wouldn't we lean into that as much as possible? On the completely opposite end of the spectrum, though something that I think highlights the trade-off, and then I've really come to appreciate this year in the very beginning of acquired we could did YouTube. And we've been saying for years and years we gotta redo YouTube. - At this point, it's almost a MacGuffin, where like it's like Seattle's NBA team. It's like maybe we should never redo it so we can always talk about that. - Oh, of course Seattle's gonna get an NBA team. (laughing) Of course, the choir is gonna redo YouTube, but I was so negative on YouTube in the episode. And the intervening years, I feel like it's just been a journey for me of like really coming to appreciate what a incredible product and business YouTube is. And this year, my big YouTube appreciation has been, they enable for many, many creators, people to make their livelihoods with the exact opposite tradeoff of what we do. You can just focus on content. And you, if you have an audience and can build an audience, can make a good to great living on YouTube and never engage with business, never engage with. - Yeah, this is how I felt as an app developer. I was like, wow, there's a money fountain. - Yeah. - I write software, I upload it to the store and money comes out the other side. - Which obviously like, that's not the decision we would make. - Yeah. - But for the long tail, you know, and mass-part and other niches of media that don't have as valuable an audience has us, that is an amazing thing. And most creators don't want to be business people. Like we want to be business people. We want to be entrepreneurs. - Right. By the way, I think it makes the content better that we are because then you get first party insights rather than like, if we were journalists, sort of shooting from the sidelines. Like some of the stuff I've already talked about on this episode today is the strategic conversation that came out of a board meeting that I was in earlier. And so like us, engaging in business makes the show what it is too. - It's funny. That reminds me of another tradeoff, what did it take? So like, really this is driven by being a parent, but yeah, I don't do boards anymore. (laughing) I just can't, never say never. But man, you know, thinking back on times in my life [BLANK_AUDIO] was on, you know, 5, 6, 7 boards and as you are now. - I'm on three. I think that's what makes it work. It's like you pick very few companies and you go very deep. I mean, it's a very acquired way of doing it. - Three is a manageable number. - Yep. - But even so, like to do it right, you really gotta engage. - Yep, all right. What's next on the agenda? - Relatedly, show growth. - Show growth. - It was so fun talking to Ben Thompson about this and his growth trajectory and curve. We pretty amazingly doubled our audience again this year. - Which has basically been true every year since we started seven years ago, which this is always one of these things where if a startup is only doubling year over year in the first two or three years, it's like, okay, well, it's not gonna be a breakout company. But if you can actually keep doubling for seven, eight, nine years, the numbers get pretty big. And so it feels very different transitioning from 2020 to today, sort of looking over a two year span where. - Even from last year to today. - So we hit over a quarter million subscribers. - Which was 62,000 just 24 months ago. - I know. - So that's the crazy, like that's the place where this sort of like out years of compounding is starting to show up for us. - And the thing that's been crazy to me is there still have been some kind of step change like the Amazon episode was that was a step change for us. - For sure. - Yeah, I think the previous highest episode to Amazon had gotten just over 100,000 downloads and that one got 170,000. - Yeah. - In the first 90 days. And when we say a quarter million, that is the unique number of people who listen to. It's basically our monthly active listener, come across all platforms who engage with at least one episode. - 'Cause not all of you listen to every episode, family. The cool thing about podcasts and for us, and you know, that it is an open ecosystem that's not controlled by algorithms, it does mean growth takes longer and it's harder. And you have to do these step change functions, but then people become subscribers and they stick around. Amazon was a huge step change moment for us in terms of growth and many of those new people subscribed. - Right. - And so thus, the subsequent episodes, benchmark, Enron. - Like the two benchmark episodes were both way higher than the 100,000 that we were at before Amazon. And then Enron now is charting to look pretty similar to Amazon. Early, we're only five or six days in, but like, it is. - Which would be inevitable. - I don't think there's a reflection on, you know, the benchmark episodes, I think we're such a cool experience, but it's more niche, like it's a venture capital firm versus like Amazon, everybody cares about Amazon. - Yes, yes, exactly. There's also this chronological thing where like, every three or four episodes is our biggest episode ever and not necessarily because the content is more interesting, but because when you find a podcast you like, you stick around. So there is this sort of like cumulative effect where we drop a new episode, if we had dropped this in 2016, it would have gotten a couple thousand listens, but because it's dropped on top of the entire base of people who are subscribed to acquired, it's really meaningful. And I thought Ben brought up this really interesting point where he sort of asserted podcasts are great because they're really sticky, but they're terrible to grow. He basically said, "I don't know how you would grow a podcast if you didn't also have a writing platform that was easily forwardable because podcasts are really hard to share." And that sort of explains the reason why no matter how hard we try, we've really never been able to more than double in any year because podcasts are sort of an inherently unsurable mechanism. So unless there's something that happens like you get feed dropped for free in an NPR podcast that brings you 100,000 new listeners right away, or we had NVIDIA part two, I think, got a large promotion on Spotify and that brought us a bunch of new listeners that were subscribing to Spotify. - Yeah, they have. - We really only started kind of more directly working with the Taylor Swift episode. - Which is why it was our stat, 98% of the people who listened on Spotify today were not listening. - Found us this year. - Last year, yeah. - And we should be clear about what I mean by directly working with Spotify. We're not owned by Spotify. There's no economic relationship or ad sales or like we've been saying, we do all that in-house, that's our business model. - But-- - They assign you a creator manager. - Yeah, well that we know that we can contact-- - Relationships at Spotify in a way that we don't have with any of the other platforms. I mean, I think technically we have a manager at Apple, like I don't know who that person is. - No, no, no, no, no. - We don't have someone's email addresses, but they're not assigned there. - Yeah. Spotify has done a great job of at least from my perspective, engaging with us as creators. And I think striking good balance between like podcasting is an open ecosystem with all the benefits and trade-offs that we've just been talking about. - Yep. - But you could also like do it better than Apple. Apple has been such a terrible steward of this industry. - You've brought this up before. Terrible in one respect, but like they're the reason why we have a direct connection with the listeners. - Yeah, it's like that. - They're indicating the creation of a platform in an intermediary is the reason why we have this really sticky relationship with listeners. - Such a good point, such a good point. They're internal strategy failure at Apple. And execution too, like I just feel like if you were an Apple shareholder, you should be really angry at management about how they have mismanaged, like fumbled the ball on podcasting. - But delighted in many other ways. - But delighted in another way. For us, yeah, I agree, especially the type of business we have acquired is really enabled by the lack of algorithmic stranglehold on this medium. - So it does sort of beg this interesting question that Ben throughout, which is how do you grow a podcast when you don't have a secondary shareable component? And I think we have tried to do this with the acquired website. Each episode has a page, that page has a bunch of show notes, that page has a transcript. There's sort of a reason to consume it on that page. You can sign up via email on that page. You can join the Slack from that page. - Which the Slack now has almost 15,000 members. - Over 14,000 members. Our preferred way to share an episode is the page because we sort of feel that that URL is like a nice way to package it up for someone and say, listen to this. Unfortunately, our episodes are four hours long, so it doesn't come with a deep link. Like it would be really nice if, as you scroll down the page and as you move through the transcript or as you watch the video or as you consume the audio, that was always updating the URL. So that if any given point, you copy the URL. It's like, this is exactly the-- - Kind of like overcast has the share of time at length. - Yeah, and you can do it on YouTube too. - Yeah, but like, those are inherently flawed because you don't know if someone likes to use that platform. So like when I share that overcast link with people, I'm like, are they gonna be like, what is this podcast player that I don't use? Why are you sharing it to me in this weird way? There's a bunch of reasons that contribute to podcasts being sort of inherently unshairable. Our episodes being really long make them especially hard to share sort of moments insights and there's been a zillion sort of like clip apps over the years, but I do think actually, you know, we have not grown in the same way that like a viral product grows. But we've had really nice growth as a podcast and I think actually growth happens because we infiltrate a network, particularly a company network. And then we get shared within the company like in a company Slack or Teams or just friend networks within a company. - Yep, it's kind of interesting. Like I'm not particularly interested in additional growth. - Yeah, especially at this point. - Yeah, I mean, it's great. It would be nice. And I think Ben was kind of making this same point in the episode we did with him. For all of us, additional growth is great. But not by trading off any of the things that we really care about that drive our business. - Right, or changing the audience mix. I was wildly relieved this year from the, how many people took the survey? 1,500 people or so that answered the survey. Which, thank you, if you did. - Yeah, thank you. - That the audience mix stayed pretty much the same from two, two and a half years ago. The last time we ran a survey, which was awesome. I was like, wow, we managed to get 200,000 more of basically the same type of person. And it was heartening talking to Ben 'cause it sounded like he thought that he had bumped up against the market, that he was starting to saturate and then sort of accelerated through it again. And so it feels like Ben, I think he probably has close to a million people that consumestrategory.com for free in a given year. And so if he doesn't feel like he's bumping up against the tam and we have a reasonably overlapping audience, that feels like pretty good proxy for us to say, well, we could probably at least 4x from here. But I don't really have like a strong desire to do, I think it would make our lives generally worse if we did. - I think it would be neutral. I mean, in some ways it would be better in some ways it would be worse, but. - If we were a video podcast, it would make it worse because we're right at the limit right now. We're like, we have all the benefits of, when we drop an episode, it really matters to the people that we care about it mattering to and we don't get recognized on the street. (laughs) The episode with Ben was about Stratackery, obviously. So we didn't really talk about this, but I kept thinking about him wanting to explore more and we should do here. Our business model is very different than Ben's. And growth, again, like, nice to have for us, comes with some set of trade-offs, there's some downsides to it, some upsides, neutral to, you know, I don't know, you could argue, maybe you think it's slightly negative to growth, maybe I think it's slightly positive. Like, it's in the neutral zone, but because of our business model and everything we were talking about, like the deepening of the engagement with the right people and the right sponsors, that's what drives our excitement about the business itself in a way that for Ben, it's different because he actually does need to grow his business to keep growing the number of consumers 'cause some percentage of them will convert to paying. - Right, you're saying for his revenue to grow, he must grow the number of subscribers, which means if subscribers are always a fraction of a fixed fraction of the set of people-- - A lot of audience. - Are reading anything on Sir Tucker, he must grow the top line, whereas what you're saying for us is, the revenue is not necessarily directly connected to audience size. - Right, it's connected, but it's not directly connected. And as we evolve the business model more, I mean, this is a good place to talk about Vanta. - That's a good point. - One of our couple biggest sponsors and partners on the show this year, we and kind of through kindergarten and you too, invested almost $10 million in the company this year. So that's a very-- - Mostly kindergarten, very small. - Yes, very, very small. - And most of that capital came from the acquired audience community, like the LP capital that back that SPV came in very large part from the acquired audience. And so that's not like growing the audience, of course, increases the number of super high quality people. And we care about growing the high quality people in the audience and the bigger that size is great, but it's not directly tied to the business model. And that was a transformational moment for us. And I was an amazing company, but that's a whole new business. - It was at least an insight. You could sort of test the hypothesis of like, 'cause you and I have invested small amounts personally in our sponsors before, 'cause we get insight into their business from getting to work directly with CEOs on those, and we're like-- - You see what our audience resonates with with the products. - Right, that's a really interesting thing. We should invest a little bit. But you're inside of, okay, this is a growth round. This is a company that's doing really well. I can sort of see how well they're doing both from getting to like, look at the investment pitch, but also-- - This is the reaction of our community to the sponsorship. - Right. Could I invest a meaningful amount of capital in this? - How could we put together a meaningful amount of capital? - And do I, as a host of acquired, have relationships with the owners of capital, the stewards of capital who want to invest in this opportunity? It was a really interesting way for you to sort of like, prove out that hypothesis a little bit. - Yeah, there is no strategic plan for kindergarten ventures, period. It is very much like a-- - Y'all may be shocked that there's no strategic plan. - Period, but it's not like we did an offsite. We didn't do a end of your special for kindergarten, like we're doing now for acquired and discuss our strategy and say, you know, I think we should find an opportunity to do a $10 million SPV this year. But no, he came naturally from everything we're talking about here on a quiet-- - Yep. And just to put a finer point on the business being not entirely connected to the audience size, there were years where the audience would 2x, but revenue would 10x. Just because it was a wildly undermonetized asset. - Well, there were several years where revenue was zero. - Yeah. - This was not a business. - That's true. But, you know, who's to say that we necessarily have the business model optimized? Do I think that there should be more sponsorships in episodes? No, in fact, I think we should probably be a little bit tighter on them and shorter on them and find more ways to make the sponsorship segments even more differentiated where we're not just giving the high level pitch on the company, but doing more vouch insurance 101 type stuff where we can sort of like find a key insight with the company and story tell that together. I think leaning into the strategic differentiation that we have on, and I know that sounds like jargon, but like we are, I think the only ones who work this closely with our sponsors. So, what does that enable us to do that no other podcast could do? I think that's like the lens that I wanna keep taking to it. And so, to your point, the business is probably still unoptimized and it will probably grow directionally with audience, but can grow in other ways too. All right listeners, now is a great time to talk about one of our favorite companies. LaGora, the agentic operating system for legal work. Yes, most of you have dropped a contract into a chatbot by now, but as a lawyer, how far can that really take you? It's never seen your firm's precedence. It doesn't respect confidentiality and you can't check where its answer came from. So, LaGora's founders approached this the way that great founders do. Early on, the team moved into the office of a big law firm in Stockholm and learned four months. How the work actually gets done. A couple of thousands of enterprise customers and a 100,000 users later, they still work that way. They employ 100 legal engineers on staff. These are lawyers sitting inside of firms and legal departments to deploy LaGora onto live situations like the deal closing this week or the policy review due Friday. The product has gotten very powerful in a short period of time. A year ago, the goal was a good answer from a chatbot. With the LaGora agent, you hand it the work and it comes back with a plan. Tasks like running diligence on a data room or reviewing a new vendor contract get completed inside the tool you use every day like Microsoft Word and against your own precedence and playbooks. Every finding is sourced, the lawyer directs the work and signs off before the system executes any steps. Every legal team can get access to the same AI models. So the models themselves do not give you an edge. What you can do with your own data, people, playbooks, that's the whole game. - Today, over a 100,000 legal professionals at more than 1,800 law firms and in-house legal teams in over 50 markets use LaGora. And when LaGora goes head-to-head with its top competitor in a pilot, it wins 70% of the time. - A demo is one thing, but what matters most is an associate who reaches for it at two in the morning during a closing or whether a general counsel trusts what it says before the board meeting. So if your legal team wants to check it out, whether you're at a firm or in-house, go to laGora.com/acquired and be sure to tell 'em that Ben and David sent you. All right, David was next on the year in review agenda. - Next we gotta talk about next year, 2023. - Yes. - Looking ahead. Okay, first question for us. What episodes, topics, guests are we thinking about? Should we, what's on the docket? - Hang on, let me bust out my list. - One that feels like an obvious one we should do at some point next year is OpenAI. - Yeah, absolutely. - We talked about doing it at various points this year and especially like fitting in with the whole Nvidia, the series, but now it feels like we gotta do it. - We almost did it 12 months ago. Like I remember last year over the holidays, doing some prep work for it. And that, I think would have been kind of disastrous 'cause we would have done it, and I think way undersold. Like we wouldn't have been. - Would have been way too early. - Yeah. - If we do end up doing it and do it relatively early next year, it's sort of ironic that the next Elon company that we'll cover after our old SpaceX episode is OpenAI, we didn't do anything on Twitter, and we haven't done any reviews on Tesla. - It is crazy. God, he's got his fingers and everything. The Twitter is just, oh my God, there's so much drama. There's so much drama. I don't like having just drama on acquired. - That is true. I think part of the reason why we haven't done a Twitter episode since we interviewed Dick Costello in early 2021, maybe. - Yeah, way before all this. - Is like the story feels less like a business story and more like a TMZ story, which isn't our cup of tea. - Yes. I don't ever wanna feel like TMZ. - I won't say that like I'm not interested in reading all the TMZ drama about it. It's totally fascinating. You know, if you can run a company on 80% less people than you were running it before and nothing goes terribly wrong, that's super interesting for the world to know. Now, of course it does look like all sorts of things are growing wrong, but to the extent that they can turn it around and the business can be generating as much revenue as it was before on a massively lower cost basis, I'm very curious to know what the second order effects of that are. But the story that we know so far is TMZ. - That is interesting actually. But yeah, like that's not the, we don't actually know that. - Right. - And everything that is being discussed is, yeah, it's just drama. - Okay, so open AI, that's a good candidate. - Yep. - I was perusing the world's richest people this the other day and some-- - For quiet ideas or just that's what you do with your preset. - You know. (laughing) - The lots of the names are very familiar to us and acquired listeners. The one that is not is Bernard Arno, which one of the world's top five wealthiest people and not in tech, not in finance, but in luxury brands. I think it'd be pretty interesting to go down the path of like really deeply unpacking brand power and brand power over generations and the concept of a house of brands and what brands mean to people and why you can know that it's the exact same leather that you're buying elsewhere. But because it has this mark on it, you pay 500 times more for it. I would love to figure out what the right starting is. place is for luxury and and do that on acquired yeah the point the reason to do it is what you said the under like brand right how did these amazing durable brands get built yeah I continue to want to do epic health care I think they're like a huge force in the American economy and I don't know if that episode will be a hero's journey or a villain but is it an Enron or a Nvidia I suspect without having done any research I suspect more of an Enron yeah they're probably not a fraud but just a open question whether it's good for the world yes creates some value certainly captures a lot of it does it capture more than it creates open question one thing I definitely want to do more of and figure out how it's going to evolve its sessions so we did the session with Jason Calcana's yep that was really fun and felt like a really cool way to do something orthogonal to the core acquired approach but still really fun maybe sessions or a format like sessions ends up being what we do with protagonists of stories after we've done an episode just us on them yep maybe we keep doing it with interesting people maybe both but that felt like a really cool different type of interview than just a standard podcast interview I feel like if sessions evolves into talking to people who do fascinating work about things that aren't necessarily their work that's a pretty interesting use of the format that's something that I want to explore because that statement can kind of take two directions and I think either would make for an interesting sessions reason for existence one is talking to the CEO of Fortune 500 company about things that aren't their company they probably think about a lot of really interesting stuff and have a bunch of really interesting ideas and they probably can't say a lot of the most interesting thoughts they have about their company because they're publicly traded and there's all sorts of SEC stuff involved but there's other conversations we have with them but they're people and like they have feelings and emotions and those aren't the reasons people typically are trying to get them to come on podcasts yeah that's one thing actually that my wife Jenny pointed out to me after listening to the session we did with Jason and she was like it was interesting it was good you guys could have gone way harder on diving into the emotional side of Jason's lived experience and his feelings and like especially when he he mentioned you know Tony Chase passing and how that really impacted him and like led to him deciding to make some changes in how he approached life and his work for the next few years like she's like that was an opportunity that you just let fall on the floor like you could have gone way deeper into that yeah I think that's a great point the other thing that I was sort of implying in that statement is we could have people on almost as a prop like we're not interviewing them but they're instead a piece of whatever discussion you and I wanted to have anyway like you know what if we had Eric Vishria just like hanging out next you on the couch and we weren't talking about benchmark but Eric was just like chiming in on a lot of this stuff and sharing his ideas he's not the subject of the interview he's a piece of the show he's a part of the conversation he's a foil to bounce ideas off of I would for sure do that with Eric that would be an amazing and a great privilege you know who would be truly the most interesting person to have as playing that role would be Peter Fenton oh yeah you're right I sorry the Peters as we we know we know we do oh my gosh that was the whole benchmarker is amazing that dinner was amazing there were a few things that Peter said there when we were talking about the principal program and Blake one of us I can't remember who's me or you asked you know so why do you guys have a principal you know it didn't like like a junior investment person when clearly like your whole ethos is you don't do that and Peter's response well it was like a because forced consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds which is a famous quote from I can't remember where it's from that's from some and it just like it like left out of it just like that was the immediate response that left out of him and it's like wow I never thought that that would show a bonapod guest yeah yeah that was great thanks Peter's one of a kind he is one of a kind other episodes that I want to do I want to do into it I think that's a far more interesting and successful business than people realize in the vein of consumer brand we got to do Nike at some point oh yeah I want to continue going back in time from Walmart and do Sears Nike's one that I really want to do I know he said we don't do lies I actually don't think this should be a live show I want to go on site I want to go to or again go to Eugene get a workout in but I feel like there's like I don't know I may just be curious to see I've never been but the facilities there and like because it's such athletic like a physical thing I want to go see right what it's like that's a good point yeah that feels like something we need to experience more physically I don't know you could make that argument for a lot of them like TSMC the episode would have been much better if you and I got to witness chips being fabbed and feel what it was like to be in a bunny suit the little bit I know I ended mostly from the last dance but like that one of the key key moments in Nike's history is the signing of the deal with Michael Jordan yeah but like what did it feel like when Michael came out to the campus yeah there's feeling the history there used to be a big thing all right so before we get to our extended carve-outs in sort of reviewing 2022 you and I both had big 2022's yeah we did I love this is a we didn't intended this way this is becoming much like the benchmark dinner that we recorded everything I was like before dinner extreme want to eat dinner before you know every we got a lot of good comments of like why are they just sitting there with cheese and on their plates like aren't they gonna eat aren't they gonna eat real food and like we did afterwards yeah yeah but like that would not make for good video content clean clean clean clean yeah audio or video content we are going to after we finish recording here we're gonna go out to celebrate celebrate holiday dinner for acquired for the two of us but I feel like this is like the prerecord this is the recording version so at which we would definitely talk about our personal lives well you had I had probably the biggest life event that you had me yes I got married it was wonderful I was here it was great you were here it was really cool because in some ways I thought it wasn't going to feel different afterwards I think a lot of people in our generations were like date for a long time and live together and feel like life partners but there's something totally different about being married you know having to ring on every day as a reminder and the sense of like longevity associated with it is really cool and a really totally different psychological place than I thought well and you go through this process and projects together yes the wedding like from the moment you get engaged until the wedding is this like a you know like a butterfly going into like a caterpillar going into cocoon it's like a transformational period yes and I say like I was here you did the wedding at your house right after moving like I didn't want to play the 2022 venue game yeah two times more people got married this year is it's like you're not getting a venue and if you are you're getting a terrible date and you're paying a lot of money for it and you're not going to get any of the things that you want out of it that was probably half of CPI inflation right there it was David was my groomsman you and I have some great pictures together thank you for coming up and being a part of it you did a amazing job given that you know you two planned it all yourself you were the venue it was at your house like it was uh we're literally sitting where the DJ was like DJ and onto the dance floor out there it's so fun going to weddings after having been married because you're like oh god I just get to enjoy all of the the fruits of the couple's labor yeah it really is when people say it's like the happiest day of your life no doubt the happiest day of my life and I think the like energy and love and just overwhelming force that you feel from your closest friends and family when you're like walking down the aisle and you feel all that energy on you it's crazy and it's an indescribable moment really yeah um it was super cool that was I think the biggest personal life event well for you this year let's see we took a vacation to Italy I'd never been to Italy before that was like a absolutely spectacular time Rome Cinquotera Florence Copri got the island of Copri's incredible I've never been it's just amazing uh have you been to Greece I've not uh okay I was curious how it compares to Greece I think it's similar to some of the sort of Greece islands this one has some cool history associated with it because at one point the Roman Emperor was sort of fleeing and I don't know if it was paranoia or is legitimate but just thought that everyone in Rome was coming to try to kill him and so he like fled to Copri and ruled from the island where he could sort of see in every direction to sort of fortify his remote work before remote work yeah that's like what am I he was a pre-digital nomad yes that's a cool thing about Italy and um every European country compared to here but I feel like especially Italy the sense of history especially for you know us to your history buffs like yep you know you walk around Rome or Florence and Rome is special with Florence and its own right is still ancient history compared to america but like Rome like you're talking about the ancient Roman town - And you actually walking around the forum is wild because you're literally looking at pillars that are 3,000 years old, at least 2,000 years old. - Yeah, so we're thinking about where to go on a honeymoon probably early to mid next year. And I wanna go back to Italy, this is a magical place. - This is the problem as you get older and you have cool travel experiences. You're like, I wanna go back to those places but you also wanna experience new places in the world. Like, I will die without seeing most of the world, no matter how much I travel. And so should I try and put a dent in that as much as possible or should I say, you know, there's this one spot in Hawaii that I really like. And so every single year I'm going back there. - Clearly the answer is both. (laughing) - Maybe you had some of the plan for carveouts, but like, I mean, I feel like I'm like decently up on like the latest like tech and gadgets and stuff, but like you're like, you made some interesting decisions - Oh, you're gonna redo my Apple. - Apple, Apple, your interview. - Yeah, yeah. Can we do an Apple, your interview for Ben? - Yeah, let's do it. So got the iPad Mini for acquired. We both are rocking the Mini 'cause it's a very, very good for on stage as we did more live stuff. It's just a game. - This is the perfect device for live events and any kind of where you're not sitting in front of a computer monitor. - Yeah, easy to hold it in one hand. I really want the big iPad Pro but I've basically no use for it. Like this is actually the device that suits my use case. - I think a little over a year ago, I got the MacBook Pro 16 inch, which is-- - Which has the lovely air. - This is our fire. Which is the finest computer I remember owned. It's a tank. - The display is amazing. - Yes, the display is unbelievable. I mean, everything about this thing is nuts. I do have NV, the M2 MacBook Air. The thing is sexy. So thin, so light. A lot of the capability of this one, but when I'm traveling and because what we do is so everything intensive, it's bandwidth intensive. It's storage intensive. - That's gear intensive. - Having like, you just need like a desktop computer with you all the time. We're transferring hundreds of gigabytes back and forth after we record for all the multiple camera videos. I want the good webcam that comes on this computer in case we have to do a remote episode. I want the screen space 'cause I'm also a venture capitalist and I'm doing spreadsheety things. I have a hard time with a travel computer. So if they made an 18 inch computer and they made it three pounds heavier, I might buy that one too. - When you're doing purely personal travel, do you not bring this and just bring the iPad? - No, absolutely not. - So you still bring that? - Yeah, yeah, they're purely personal travel. What are you talking about? There's not a single day where I'm on personal vacation where I'm not also doing something. - That's true. That's even for years truly. That's the truth. - I mean, we're small business owners. We are a single day where there's no one else that can do it. So either it doesn't happen or we have to do it. - Yep. - And that's on top of me being a professional venture capitalist where there's real obligations that come with, and that you don't necessarily need the heaviest computer you can find for, but you need to be pretty responsive on a lot of things and sometimes if you're-- - That's true. - If you need to-- - If you need to-- - You need real computer. - We need to make edits to an episode or something like-- - I need to post that audition. - Yeah. And I could do that on a smaller computer and maybe this is totally overkill. Like, when you got here today, I had left to go to a board meeting and then a lunch and then meet someone for coffee for an nonprofit that I'm working with. And none of those things required a computer, but I brought my backpack with my computer in it to all three, even though I knew I would never take it out. Because if something came up, I would need to be able to like get away for five minutes, do something on my computer, put it back in my bag, and then go back to whatever I was doing. - I love it. - You just never know. - You never know. - And I'm probably overly paranoid on that, but it's like the one time you get burned, changes your behavior forever. - Okay, so opposite of this, I'm where I thought you were gonna start. - So I really like to take pictures. I'm a very big nerd about like understanding all the physics and as much of the black box that Apple will let you understand of the computational photography engine. But I also have like, I think it's tendonosis. Some things up with my wrists. They fatigue super easily. And I get basically tennis elbow. It's probably from having my computer with me all the time and like constantly. - It's having me a bunch of computer. So I have the iPhone 13 Mini. It's the correctly sized phone. It's the correct weight for a phone. It's the correct sort of reachability for a phone, which I know Apple used to name a feature, which is a stupid feature. And so I was like, gosh, there's no iPhone 14 Mini. I would pay literally anything. I don't know if that is exactly right, but like four or five X, the current iPhone prices. - Give a high willingness to pay. - For an iPhone 14 Pro Mini. - Yeah. - Like Apple, if there's a test window and a lab somewhere, please send it to me. I will again, like no price sensitivity around it. But I was like, I should try the new phone and just like play with the cameras and stuff. I got it. As you would suspect, it was too big. It was too heavy. I waited 13 days until the 14 day return deadline. Returned it, went back to my 13 Mini. And I'm thinking about buying another 13 Mini because like at some point the battery's gonna die on this one. And if they never make another Mini again. - I wanna have one, like on in cold storage. - It's just like my Nike's upstairs that I've got stacked in the closet. - It is the perfect size phone. So I have a 12 Mini right now. I didn't upgrade to the third probably should have. - Dude, you totally should. - Up very right now before they run out. - Well, I realized I finally need to upgrade the 12 Mini and the biggest driving factor for me as a new parent was the camera. And so I actually went, I haven't gotten it yet. It's because it's on very hard, but I went to the 14 Pro. - Wow. - Which I have never had any of the Pro iPhones. Like I care about technology a lot, but I was just never compelled by, I don't care that, didn't, used to not care that much about photography. And so it's just never that compelled by the Pro versions. And I really cared about size, but now with a little one. - If I was a parent, I think I would buy the 14 Pro also. - Well, it's a double whammy. When I cared most about size was for portability when out and about, which that part of your life has gone away. - That part of my life is particularly like exercising. Now my exercise is primarily walking a stroller, which has a lot of carrying capacity. And I didn't care that much about photo quality. I took very few photos before. I mean, and now just like some of the best advice. Now I love talking to people who have older kids and being like, 'cause you just realized time just slips away like we got a kid in. Almost universally, I wish I'd taken more photos. I especially wish I'd taken more videos throughout the end. So like, all right, so the Pro have an order, but I'm conflicted about it. Like I'm really gonna miss the form factor. - You are. You're really gonna miss it. Yeah, it's like not gonna fit in your pocket. - Yeah. - It's gonna be. - It's gonna be a transition. - And also the camera mountain on this one is so large that the phone actually rocks when you're leaving it on a table and typing. It's fascinating to see the set of trade offs. Apple's been okay with in the name of getting the very best photos that they can out of this thing. - Which as a parent now, I'm like, I see the business reason for doing that. - Right. Okay, so keep going on the line up 'cause you got another important large device. - Yeah, so I bought the Apple Watch. - You're having trouble lifting your arm next. - It's really heavy. I just want to say the Apple Watch 14, the Apple Watch Ultra, which I'm sure next year, this is gonna be the Apple Watch Ultra 2 or the Apple Watch 2 Ultra. I'm curious how they'll name it. Apple Watch Ultra Second Generation, I imagine. What they'll do. This thing is actually super light relative to how large it is. And you've made the joke about lifting your arm. I like don't feel it anymore. And I think that happens with all watches over time. You sort of like get used to the weight. But one of the big things that sold me on it is, 'cause I thought the reason I was gonna hate it was the weight. I like put it on and I'm like, this, I think it's the titanium remarkably light for how large it is. It's big, for sure it's big. - It's beautiful though. - This screen is, yeah, this is super clear. Like you can look at pictures on it. It's really bright, it's 2,000 nits, so like it has a flashlight button because it functions as a fairly effective flashlight. The battery lasts like almost three days, which is totally game-changing if you, I think I've tracked every single night of sleep for four or five years now. And so that's like a thing that I, that's a use case I really care about. I haven't done anything extreme in it yet. Like I've climbed Mount St. Helens. - You've got this great photo behind me. - Yeah, that's Iceland that I did with my dad. He used to do this big backpacking trip every summer. And I have not adventured in this thing yet, mostly 'cause I've just been doing less adventuring over the last year or two. But I totally expect to use it for these stated purposes, but it's been awesome for me, even not for the ultra type purposes that it's advertised for. - The photo viewing I would imagine is a really, I would never think I want to view photos of my wrist, but like actually I think they could be used. - There's a good number of times where I'm like, okay cool, I saw it clearly enough now where I don't need to also pull it up on my phone. - When you're getting photos in a text chat. - Yes, exactly. The other interesting thing is the screen is just large enough where it kind of feels like a small phone and less like a big watch. And I think it's the edge-to-edge display, the fact that they have the like raised bezel around it. - bezel around it, yeah. It has an on-screen keyboard that you can use the finger-swiping on. And so I literally can just swipe on the keyboard to respond to text messages. So I can't decide if that's like really nerdy and like Casio mid '80s and like that's not actually useful. But I've probably done it 30 or 40 times since I've gotten it to respond to text messages real quick and that's been pretty nice. - The one thing I wish they had added that to me would be a, maybe not killer feature, but like a really, really nice to have would be some sort of biometric authentication in the watch. 'Cause what I don't like is when I, - Well, maybe with an ultra, I wouldn't have to take it off to charge it as much, but when I put my watch back on after I've been charging it, then I got it into my pincode every time, which, you know, like, first world problems. - And less. - I don't understand why they can't put a touch ID sensor. I mean, I know they're trans-save as much space as possible right there, but like-- - No, that's good. You're right, there's no biometric on it, but I think a feature that it does have is if you put it on, and then you take out your phone before you need to type in the passcode on your watch, and you face ID on your phone, your watch is auto-unlocked. - Yes, that is true, but I've found that to be kind of janky. - I have found that to be kind of janky too. - Yeah, I can't like reliably trust that it's going to work. - Totally agree. I'm like, why do I still need to type in a passcode? I swear I shouldn't need a passcode right now. - And one of the things I found, maybe I need a different watch band to solve the problem, but toddlers really like to grab shiny things with screens, and especially ones that are on your wrist while you're changing diapers. And so the amount of times a day that I enter my passcode on my watch is a lot larger than it used to be, shall we say? - All right, so let's go with your Apple, we'll go reverse order for you. Give me your Apple lineup and let's get into your year interview. - Ooh, okay. So I'm still rocking the 2020 original OG M1 MacBook Air, which is so much more performant machines out there like this now, but I still have tons of headwinds. - Right, I'm not sure you'd notice the performance difference. - Yeah, and the leap forward that that M1 chip was just incredible. I mean, performance, battery life, price point. - Yeah, it's crazy. - I don't know what these 2020 original M1 MacBook Airs are going for on like eBay or Craigsluster whatnot right now. - Yep. - Whatever they're going for, like I bet $500, it's maybe less the amount of performance and longevity that you can get for that dollar amount. - Yeah, it's crazy. - You're right, if it's only $500, it's way better than, let's say you have like a 2018 or 2019 Intel machine, it's so worth it to trade up to even an old M1 'cause they're just not that different after three years. - Yep, totally. I can't imagine anything that a normal human would need to do on a computer that the M1 MacBook can't handle. - Yep, okay, so keeping that guy. - Okay, so there's that. We talked about my phone. I'm currently rocking the 12 mini, very mixed emotions about transitioning to the 14 Pro, and I'm rocking the original SE Apple watch. - I forgot they made a watch SE. - They have two now. There's a new SE2. I don't know exactly what the SE2 has feature set. I'm very tempted by the ultra for all the reasons we discussed. - How do I recommend it? - My decision for going with the SE originally was it didn't have the always on screen, and I actively did not want the always on screen. How do you find it distracts you at all? - I like it now. Especially with the wayfinder watch face that comes on the ultra, when it's off, you still see the watch hands, but everything else, it's a black background, and then when you turn it, it's got sort of the white face comes on, so I like it. - Nice. - I did not like the always on display on the phone when I had the 14 pro. It was like loud, it felt like the phone didn't, it's like really on. - But on the watch it, yeah, it's subtle. It's not noticeable. - I will say too. I was in a coffee meeting today where I did need to call an Uber so that I could get back here so that we could record, and it was quite nice being able to like have the watch at a super (buzzer) - Because there's a social thing about - Checking your watch. - But having it like being able to see the time when I was looking at it at like 170 degree angle, and I used to definitely be the person that's like jerking my wrist or like tapping it to try to see the time, so that's like. - That is one, yeah, I'll do like, I'll put my hands under the table and then like tap it like, seriously. - Yeah. - And then on the iPad side, the iPad mini, I had the one really only negative experience besides the just amount of work that we and Pitchbook put into the arena show was my old iPad got stolen after the arena show. - It was a criminal. - Literally, criminal. I could still see it on like the map on the find my devices, it was somewhere up like Northgate or somewhere like North of Seattle and like, but. - It's like one of these things you're like, just 'cause I know where that is, it does not mean I should go there and get it. - No, definitely not. - Oh man, but the mini, I really like the mini. It's not nearly as good for watching and consuming content. I have an old iPad that we keep in the kitchen for when I'm doing the dishes and stuff. - And that you have pro-lotion on, right? Like the minis don't have a pro-lotion display, the 120 hertz. - Yeah, oh, no, I've got like an old old iPad that I don't think has promotion. - I feel like you used to have one with a pro-lotion display. - You know what, maybe it does. I think it's an original, the first iPad pro that they made in 2017. - Yeah, that one did. - Okay, you're right, it does have promotion. It does have promotion. - 'Cause that I actually missed when I was downgrading from the new iPhone down to the 13 mini, 'cause the non-pro iPhones have never had pro-lotion. - Right, that's the goes up to 120 hertz refresh rate on the screen, butter. - The mini is great though, for events. It's also really good. I've stopped, I use a Kindle Oasis that I use for reading fiction at home, but when I travel, I no longer bring the Kindle Oasis and I use this as a Kindle, it's great for that. - I find, like for outdoor stuff, you can't beat the Kindle. - Yeah. - I also find that night reading in bed, the iPad, even in the lightest setting, is kind of too bright. - That's true. The beach, I'll still bring the Kindle. I wouldn't feel good bringing this to a beach. - Yeah, that's a good point, 'cause they're not waterproof. Unlike iPhones, iPads are not waterproof. The device that's still in my lineup that blows my mind is in 2012, as a college graduation gift, my uncle got me the $70 Kindle. And that is still the Kindle that I use and take on vacation. It's such a good product. They are like industrial strength. - Yeah. - Yeah. - And super light, like I looked at getting the Oasis, but it's actually heavier than my 2012 model. - The nice thing about the Oasis is it's got the Page Turn buttons, which I like. - And the paper white is a really nice, I'm envious of the paper white, for sure. My Kindle is actually worthless in bed, because you need to light it with a. - Right, Jenny and I got the Oasis for that very reason. Jenny's a night owl and I'm a morning person. And Jenny is a huge reader. She has a PhD in literature and I'm a huge reader too, but she puts me to shame. She would stay up reading a night with the light on. And that light is like, I'm buying you this. Turn the light off. - It's for you and for me. - It's for you, but mostly for me. - All right, so you're 2022 personal year. - Oh, 2022 personal year. Well, this was the year of adjusting to life as a parent. Our daughter was born towards the end of 2021. So that was like, most of the year was preparing and then like the first couple months are like. It's, I mean, of course we're thinking back now on the FTX interview when we had Sam on. - Was that your first interview back? - It was in there. I mean, I was still in the fog of war. Like it was a, I know we released the interview - Oh, we switched it with the Michael Lovitz episode. I think Michael, we interviewed Michael first. - Right. - That's right, that's right, but all of that, she was no more than two months old, probably less. Like, it's such a fog. Yeah, there's first few months. But then this year is when Jenny went back to work and she works in person. She works at San Francisco Ballet. Like it's in person physical art form. They put on physical performances. She needs to be in the office every day and weekends and nights. So yeah, this year was just about figuring out life like with a lot of changes, but we met early in college. So we were like babies, and then we were. - You were together for 17 years before having a kid, 16 years? - 16 years, yeah, 16 years before having a kid. Which were wonderful 16 years. And I'm glad we had all that time together, pre-baby. But we hadn't had to like really renegotiate our relationship in a long time. So it was like, oh wow, flexing old muscles again. - Yeah, I bet. - But the last time was when we got married and like we didn't expect, you know, it's really hearing you talk about things are different when you get married. Like they really are. - All your life systems have to change. Your notion of self is only about one person, but after you're married, your notion of self includes another person whose emotions, you can't actually feel. So like when you're like looking out for yourself, you have to account for things that you currently don't know. Which I think is this like very interesting phenomenon. - Yeah, and that is so true about getting married. And having a kid, I think that's like the biggest, well, there's so many huge things. But one is like, you now have this other being. Like when you get married, yes, you have to account for the other person and you're like in it together. You're no longer just you. - Right. - But they're checking on versions. - You're like, you know, it's like a responsible adult, hopefully, you know, can keep themselves alive. Can like, if we're going late recording an acquired episode, she'll be fine. - Right, right. - When you have a kid, that's very, yeah, like you can't like 24/7, somebody needs to have as like a pretty foreground in their mental processes, like I need the like algorithm of how I'm behaving needs to have at the forefront, keep this kid alive and happy. - Yeah. - And they're incapable of doing so their own. And, you know, you love this person. It's so incredibly much. and just really unfathomable ways. And so it's like, yeah, how do you then integrate that back with your life? So that was, it's been a lot of figuring that out for us. And now we're now at such a good age. Not that it's still difficult. She's a little over a year old now, 14 months. It's so fun. It's always been fun. I've not been, I think a lot of parents, and especially a lot of dads, they don't love their kids immediately. And that's a very normal thing of like, what moms do have this, but kid pops out and you're like, whoa, there's no instant love. I had the instant love, like very, very powerful. And I still feel that, but like also like, as they become more of a person, like she's walking now, she's talking like a little bit like, but she's like so clearly has a personality in like, every day, and like, oh wow, like you are even more of a person than you were yesterday. And like it's so fun. And it's like also a lot easier than the just like, the early days are so physically demanding, like on everybody, especially moms, but like any caregiver. - So one of these things that like, you can describe it, but having not experienced it, I don't actually know what it's like. It's like, oh cool. - Oh, there's no way. - Cool words, David. - Yeah, right, exactly. Highly highly recommended, but you know, in due time. - Yeah. Other stuff for you this year, personally? - It's sort of crazy looking back on it, like so much changes when you parent, but we were both intentional about this, but also I think it just naturally happened because it is important in part of our lives. We didn't actually travel any less. Like we didn't travel in the early, early months, but we did, what do we do? Eight or nine trips with the baby in 2022, including going to Portugal. We made that a family trip when we went for breakpoint, which like, actually it was great. Like really hard, very different. - It seemed very hard, I gotta say from the outside. - It was hard, it was hard, but I'm really glad we did it. I'm really glad we did it. Then the other big thing for us this year, we'd spent a lot of time over the last couple of years thinking about where we wanted to live in general, and then in anticipation of having a baby, and then after having the baby, Jenny and I went around the axle so many times about, California and probably the Bay Area, Jenny's family's there, and we genuinely really love it there, but do we move to the suburbs, where do we move? Do we stay in the city, we were in the city before, and we ultimately decided to stay in the city, to stay in the same neighborhood. We moved houses, but the plan for now is, we're just gonna stay for the perpetuity in the city, and which some people I think are like, that's crazy. Why would you live in San Francisco, period? Especially post-pandemic. Why would you raise kids in San Francisco? It's actually great. Like for us, it's been amazing. We can walk, we don't have to drive, we don't have to get in the car. There's so much great stuff. She really enjoys it, like she's a city kid, like after breakpoint, we went out in the countryside and Portugal for a couple of days. The baby was so bored. She was like, get me back to Lisbon, like, oh wow. So it's actually been really great for us staying in the city. We'll see as she gets older, but that's the plan. That's great. All right, listeners, now is a great time to talk about one of our favorite companies, Statsig. Yes, there is a reason why the best product teams rely on Statsig, whether they are iterating on their core product features or shipping AI-powered experiences at scale. Yep. In the crazy speed of today's AI world, shipping fast is just table stakes now. It's basically trivial to build and deploy your app constantly. The real advantage is how quickly you learn what changes actually created value for customers, and how fast you can use that signal to guide what you shipped next. This is where Statsig comes in. It brings experimentation, feature flags, and product analytics into one unified system, so teams can ship safely, test rigorously, and directly link what they changed to how users actually behaved. So if you want to make learning your competitive advantage, whether you're building new AI experiences or just evolving your existing core product, go to Statsig.com/acquired to get started. Carvettes? Carvettes, let's do it. All right, should we start with books? Let's do it. All right, I can't remember if I recommended this one because I read it over the holidays last year. I think it might have been my first Carvout of 2022. Project Hail Mary. Oh, yeah. I think I read it on your recommendation. That's right, Ken Vouch, very good. I think it's the best fiction I've ever read. Definitely the best sci-fi I've ever read. The premise arrives at you in real time as you read it, so I don't want to give away the premise. Unless otherwise stated, this is a spoiler-free Carvettes. The coolest thing about Project Hail Mary is how it is basically all in our universe. There's no big leap. Like in Star Trek, you have to take this leap of, like, well, there's warp drive, and you don't really understand how it works, and that's fine. And now that we accept this black box, now we can go to other stuff. There's not like an accepted black box in Project Hail Mary. There's just like all the known rules of physics that we know about. And then you go from there. It's hard sci-fi. I think is in the term, right? Is that what they call it? Yeah, where it's like everything is like laws of physics, expressions for everything. Right. So that was super cool. Another book that I finished about two months ago that I thought was exceptional, and every single person who listens to a choir should read it. I think it expands even broader than this audience, but this audience in particular would eat it up, called the psychology of money by Morgan Household. We get to talk to Morgan recently. That was really fun. And when we hopped on that call with him, it was like, I was two thirds through the book. And so it was really fun like getting to talk about some of the concepts with him while I was in real time digesting them. But he's unbelievably pithy and real fast. I need to read the book. I need to read it and yes, I agree. Total class act. I suspect it's a really good one to read now. Post 2020 and 2021 bubble when like everything was crazy. It would have been great to read it during 2020, right? Right. Yeah, yes. But it includes, I think I've made it a carve out before the Morgan's essay How All This Happened. And every chapter of psychology of money is one of his essays. And so if you liked, if you read How All This Happened, which is this amazing path of world war two through today, through the American economy and a lot of politics and why different things happened and how everything led to the next thing, the psychology of money is awesome because it incorporates all of that sort of like factual history with just really good perspectives and some citations of research on what actually makes people happy and what investment strategies work when your goal is happiness. I certainly don't account for enough of that in my own financial planning. Yeah, Morgan makes a very strong argument in the book to basically put as much into S&P 500 index funds when you're as young as you possibly can and just never sell anything. It's like the most boring style of investing possible that will probably be whatever you do. Yep, I got to pick that up and read it. That'll be good over the holidays, book, anything else you got in books. I do actually, I'm halfway through it. And I was tempted to not talk about it 'cause I want to use it for a future carve out. But it's already so good. And this is another one where like listeners of the show will especially eat this up, the power law by Sebastian Maloney. Is it worth reading even if you're already steeped in the industry? You and I have done research on 250 companies and all these venture funds and talk to the people that started a lot of these venture funds and Sebastian knows more. It just goes deeper. I mean, just talks about these investments that like, we think we've talked about the best investments of all time, there are more. And like, he cites them all numerically. He cites returns on early venture capital funds. He takes you all the way through product venture capital. Like, I mean, there's George Dorio and then Arthur Rock and he talks about like how all those partnerships sort of led to the next ones and how certain structures were bad and then the invention of the private limited partnership fixed all these problems. You're gonna love it. - Okay. - I might find that under the tree. - That's all I got for books. - Oh, that's all I got. All right. My books, I've got two acquired books that I can't believe we did both of these episodes this year. And we completely whipped on this very obvious sort of like pun and fun moment. - You know what I don't like whiffs? - I know, I'm embarrassed by this. Like, mostly for me, this is like an ultimate like, David Rosenthal like dad joke moment. My top two acquired books and they genuinely are also my top two acquired books for the year. Made in Japan and made in America. - I made that joke. - Did you? - Totally made that joke. - Yeah, I can't believe I've got that. - I swear I did. - Did you? I'll have to go back through the transcripts. - Or at least like observed that in some capacity. Maybe it was a tweet. Maybe I just have dad brain. - But isn't that crazy that they're both named that? - And they're both so good. - Yeah, I agree. - I highly recommend non acquired books that I read this year. I think I did this as a carve out the Godfather series, the books Mario Puzzo's books. They are so good. As good or better than the movies in the movies are in my opinion some of the best of all time. - Yeah. - And then the other one is Masters of Doom. I don't know if I talked about that on the show. - We've thought about doing an id episode. And then Lex did that like huge interview with Carmack. So felt less urgent for us to do it, but really well written book. And then the author of Masters of Doom, David Kushner, just did a follow-up piece. I think in Vanity Fair of a follow-up interview. Did you see I think Tyson is to you with Stevie Case. Who's the CRO Advanta? And Stevie is a prominent figure in the book. And she was the first, the first, or one of the first professional female gamers ended up working, did she work at Id? She may have worked briefly at Id, but then she joined Romero at his next company after Romero and Carmack broke up. - Oh, crazy. - Anyway, crazy story. And then she went on, she came out to Silicon Valley, ended up working at Twilio. And now it's the CRO Atlanta. - Oh, I can't tell me about this. I'm not sure I read the article, but I remember hearing, yeah. - Yeah, so good, both the book and the follow up article. - Great, so Stevie's story is amazing. So that's my article, Carve Out 2, which is our next category. - Mine was, how all this happened? - No, perfect. Podcasts? - Podcasts. I already mentioned Resonant Arc, my favorite video game podcast. Got it all in. Resonant Arc and all in are like my go-to, must listen every episode. - Yep. - Two shout outs, though, that I discovered this year and have become friends, David Tendra and the Founders Podcast. Of course, wonderful show. And we've become close with David. And like, when you hear David on the show, he is exactly that same way in real life, too. Like, it's so great. He's come out to California, we've hung out a bunch. Love him. The other one, I've been a huge MKBHD fan on YouTube, as I know, you have been to the Waveform podcast that they do. It's great, I've started like regularly listening. I really like it. And our buddy, David Emel, who's on the MKBHD team, he's regularly on a co-host on that. They rotate through the team on the Waveform podcast. And like, it's in the same vein as kind of the Verge podcast. Like, it's all about the products of tech, but it's really well done. - I've become an increasingly large fan of the Verge. I don't know how I sort of slept on it. In my head, it was like, oh, another one of these like, end gadget, gizmodo type things. But like, that was wrong. It is my, this is like embarrassing to say, new favorite publication. Like, Neely is so smart. And I'll basically go listen and Neely talk wherever he is. Like, that is a way for sure get me to go listen to an episode of whatever the podcast is. So I sort of like, first, and over COVID, I think was like, I'll listen to Neely in any situation. And then like, with the Verge redesign, I sort of, I don't think I realize how unbelievably thoughtful the team there is and how strategic they are. They're one of the few publications that thinks about the fact that they're a business too and thinks about the way to marry their business with their editorial and how they can uniquely show up in the world based on what they do differently than other people. And like, I think the new Verge redesign is genius. Like, I don't know if it'll work or not, but I love the attempt. They're also one of the few news sites in the world that actually gets a ton of direct traffic. So that's a huge thing that plays to their advantage that then they can do interesting things with. There's people that come to them to solve a problem in their life or to fill a need. - It's so true. I mean, even me, I mean, you're way deeper in the product, as a fan of the product side of tech than I am, but anytime there's a new Apple device or, there's a couple places I will go directly. I will go to MKBHD and all the various properties that he and they have now and I'll go to the Verge. And I might consume some other stuff that comes to me on social media, like I will directly go to those two properties. And I feel like my impression of Neolize, that he is world class on the product side of tech, but he also gets the business side. - Oh yeah, for sure, for sure. - Which is super rare. - Super rare. And his legal background, he gets all the interesting IP, copyright stuff that's going on in technology. I just feel like there's that Scott Adam's aphorism. You don't want to be top 1% of anything. You want to be top 25% at the right three things and figure out how to marry them together. I feel like that's Neolize. I'll also say, I think the Verge has been the thing that's surprisingly the most helpful for me for acquired research this year. Like I did a ton of Qualcomm research on the Verge, 'cause they've done so much reporting on Qualcomm over the years. So big Verge fan, I know that's, we don't have a publication, it's like a category, but they've got podcasts, they don't have podcasts. So back to podcasts. I already said the episode of Tim Ferriss with Jerry Seinfeld from a couple of years ago, so good. The episode of Huberman Lab, what alcohol does to your body? - Oh yeah. - Dude, it's scary, scary stuff. And like moderation is also bad. There's no like, well, I only had one drink this week and that's devastating to your body versus zero. And this is certainly not medical advice, but go listen to that podcast. It's just unbelievable. The research studies that he's citing where it's just so much more bad for you in every way than I ever thought, and I thought it was bad for you. - Yeah, you were already starting to drink less, right? - Yeah, I mean, we both open tonight with cocktails, but well, you gotta live. - Yeah, this is a celebratory of it. - That's right, that's right. My last podcast recommendation is Smirtless. Any episode, so fun. It's just so fun to go live in their world for an episode. - You've been like that one for a while, right? - The last six months or so. - Yeah, I feel like you've been making on that. All right, music. - Music. I don't think I discovered any new music this year. I listened to a lot of Taylor Swift Midnight's. I did a ton of prep for our wedding, curating a bunch of different playlists for like different segments of the day. - Well, that's right. You put together all the playlists yourself, too, right? - Yeah, I mean, the DJ did all the work that a great DJ does, but I sent him very highly manicured playlists that took several months to put together with a lot of opinion in it. So, you know, here's the dance, here's the cocktail hour, here's dinner, here's, so I was looking at my likes, Spotify, you're in review. And I was like, all this is like my favorite songs from over the course of my life and my wife's life. And that's where most of my music listening went this year. I'll also say most of my audio time, like even when I'm in the gym now is podcasts or audible books mostly in service of acquired research. I just listen to way less music than I used to. I feel like you do a large part of your acquired book research via audio books, right? - Almost exclusively. - Wow. - It was painful for me to read the whole Qualcomm book, but the only way I can-- - Right, the only way it was available. - Yeah. - It's interesting. Whereas I've gone in the total opposite direction. I pretty much only do physical paper copies for acquired research. - I admire your attention span. - I'm interested to try, I do have an Apple Pencil for, all right, Padminis, and I wish I could write with the Apple Pencil directly on the book. - I bought that and I thought it'd be so cool and I never used it. - I agree, I agree. It's just like, I don't know if it's a DRM thing or like a font size thing that changes the page, but like really just wanna be able to write with the Apple Pencil directly on any book, the same way I do on a physical book and for whatever reason the tech gods just have no, let me do that. I have new music. - Oh yeah? - Shockingly, you would not think that me, knowing me and as a new parent would discover new music this year, but the baby loves Olivia Rodrigo. Less so now, but when she was like, I don't know, between ages like two months and six months, they'll go through moments, Olivia Rodrigo, almost without fail, turn on driver's license, like she would just be a wrapped in attention and like immediately calm down. - Amazing. - Well like, I guess we have a teenager like, so I listened to a lot of Olivia Rodrigo this year and she's very talented, very impressive. - All right, I got out to to my Spotify. - TV and movies. - Yes, Andor was my carve out very recently. - You got to care everything here 'cause I did none. - Freakin' exceptionally. - I rewatched Black Panther recently, it was just as good, but that's all I got. - So Andor, I saw the new Top Gun and that was unbelievably fun. - Oh yes, so fun. - Put that on a Big Four KTV with some surround sound and just enjoy. - Jenny and I watched that on a laptop on a, yeah, we got to go, I think they're re-releasing it in theaters for the release. - Oh release, yeah. - We can go upstairs after this and watch it's a 75 inch, like it's a very good experience. - Nice. - I watched everything everywhere all at once, the movie and that movie gives you all the feels. That is a great, great movie. Great one to watch together if you're looking for something to watch with your partner. Weird movie, kind of a sci-fi, kind of a rom-com, but it's like a family dynamics movie, sad parts, happy parts, and visually stunning. So, and great acting. I don't even really want to talk about what it's about 'cause it's one of these that I just don't want to spoil it, but basically everyone will like this movie. - Great. Good holiday movie? - Great holiday movie. I haven't watched season one yet because it felt like I just wanted to catch up as soon as possible because everyone was talking about it. I'm now up to date on White Lotus season two. That is a wild show. It's basically the premise is like you get, I don't know, eight to 10 rich people that show up at this beautiful hotel, the White Lotus in Sicily, and they're in three or four different groups. So the plot sort of follows different groups, but the thing that runs through everyone is like everyone is extremely set in life, very wealthy, and deeply unhappy, and then crazy problematic stuff ensues from there. And it's visually stunning, and the acting is great, and you're simultaneously very mad at all these characters for doing stuff that they shouldn't be doing, but you also totally understand the characters are so well established that you understand based on their flaws as humans, why they're falling into these traps. - Are they real people? Is it reality or is it fiction? - No, fiction. - It's fiction. very well. written fiction. And the first one was in Hawaii. So I think it's almost a completely different cast but like sort of same general premise in Italy. So each season is a different set of I think that's what they're doing. Yeah. Lastly, I watched a lot of TV this year. The vow on Netflix is great like trash TV to leave on in the background. And as two seasons long and it is a documentary about a cult and unbelievably, the cult leader is so wrapped up, I mean, maybe not unbelievably for a cult leader in self glorification that like that sounds very believable for a cult leader. 15 20 years ago, he started recruiting filmmakers to join the cult. So they would shoot all this footage. So there's all this like very very high production value footage over the entire life of the cult all the way through the trial, which was only a few years ago is the nexium cult. And like dude went to prison for life. And the bunch of other people went to prison because like they did terrible cult stuff. And the whole thing is just like perfectly documented the entire time because I think it was like part of the arrest that like all this document all these stuff became all the footage. Yeah. So maybe they maybe an Netflix spot. I don't know. But either way, very, very good background TV. Great. Apps. The only new app that I started using this year that had any meaningful impact was our baby monitor app. I just like everything's justified. What about you? Do you have anything? I have a few apps since moving houses that are sort of tied to like IOT type things. The only one that's not that I really like that I started using this year is a flighty, which is Ryan Jones is he's an indie developer. He previously did weather line, which is my favorite weather app. And flighty is sort of like the modern trippet. The best way to explain it is like unbelievably good UI to tell you real time information about your flight. And it's tied into like every available API with every available airline. So you get information from flighty before the airline notifies you of it. And often before it even displays on gates, when you're in the air. Okay. I got a push before I get this for flying back in a couple days. Dude, when when you get like a 30 second heads up on a change before the massive people are behind you, it's very that's huge. Very valid. That isn't it. That's alpha. That's that's alpha right there. That's alpha. Although now we just gave it to everybody. I think he was even featured in the Apple keynote. So we're not giving anybody any distribution here that they didn't otherwise already earn, but Ryan's just amazing indie developer. It's been really fun to like watch. I haven't met him or anything, but watch the success of his apps over the years. And this is just a fantastic experience. Be fun to do. Maybe it'd be an LP show or two, but we still have some indie developers. Yeah. Like those are interesting business stories. Totally. All right. Products. I have one that actually comes with an app. Great. Mine is the Robo Rock S7 Max. Robo Rock S7 Max. Can I guess with it? Is this a Robo vacuum? Yes. It's the competitor to Roomba. And I think it's a Xiaomi company. You know how Xiaomi owns like large steaks and a whole bunch of companies that they like manufacturer for. I think it's that, but it's just like I had a Roomba and I actually returned it to get the Robo Rock instead. And the S7 Max is the like, I mean, it's like the worst product name of all time, but it's like the souped up self emptying also has a lightweight mop built in. It's the first time I've actually had like a robot where you actually can say like. This thing is robust enough that it's just going to make my life easier without failing or getting stuck or needing some kind of intervention. It just does its job. What's preventing me from ever seriously considering robot vacuums is stairs. So you just need one for each floor. Exactly. Yeah. Or you can move it, but yeah. I went for two Robo rocks. Given the Xiaomi involvement or potential, but I would imagine you could probably get two for less than the cost of a very expensive. No, they're very expensive. Yeah. Oh, wow. I was expecting that too. No, they're they're they're premium priced. Oh, interesting. But great. Fantastic product. Yeah. I guess that is the solution you just do. One for each floor. Yep. Yeah. Interesting. Or get used to carrying it. It's fine. I guess you're going to walk upstairs to like go to bed. See me as well. Just like carry this thing under your arm and set it down and then start it in the morning or something. It's great. I never thought about that. Just save you a thousand bucks right there. All right. That's all you about it. Okay. Let's see. I, uh, I'm intentionally going to limit a parenting product to just one. I could really do a little bit of the show. Yeah. I'm like, this is maybe I should do a list. Yeah. Let's just want this. Yeah. Maybe. Well, I mean, not all, but it's a subset too. So my just one, this is a super pro tip that never would have thought of, but diaper bags are like big. Brilliant idea. I wish I could take credit for this, but I can't put the key essentials of a diaper bag, which are diapers, wipes, changing pad in a pouch. You know, you can get like a nice like pouch or whatever like printed or like, you know, I don't even know where ours is from. And then you could just move that pouch into whatever bag or you could either carry the pouch yourself or put it in your backpack or put it in whatever like rather than having a dedicated diaper bag, keep the core essentials of the diaper bag in a pouch that you can then put in other things. God, do this show is getting worse now. Listeners, if you're still listening, I'm sorry. We'll be back next year with better content. Oh boy. But by the way, at some point if I'm ever a parent, I'm totally going to be like, yeah, give it all this. I'll just do that. I'll make a list for you. Good. On the universal product appeal, a couple quick ones. One, I went back actually to the Apple keyboard. I had a mechanical keyboard, which I really liked, but I went back to the Apple one for Touch ID built in. It's so convenient. It is really nice. It's so convenient. I have the Microsoft ergonomics sculpt two and I love it, but I think I typed my password two dozen times a day more than I would if I just had my I seriously doubt they'll do this, but actually they could sell for a hundred bucks and make a ton of margins, a little standalone. Stand alone, Touch ID, dongle. Yeah, totally. A bunch of Elgato gear, including the sound panel. Their sound panels are so good, so easy to put up. I don't know if listeners noticed from by the way, we have four Elgato lights in this room right now. An Elgato stream deck. David and I use the Elgato preamps, the Wave XLR. Yep. And then also the camera, the wide camera that somehow turned off again is mounted on the Elgato boom arm where my mic is normally on my desk. Yep. They make such good stuff. The sound panels in particular are really, really good and really they have frames around them and then sticky stuff to mount. So like it literally, I've put up a, I don't know, probably 12 of them in total took less than an hour. Oh, we also use the cam link. The cam link for the way that we pipe our cameras into our computer as webcams. Yep. Huge, huge Elgato fans. Nice. All right. And then you added the agenda, a final new carve out section of places, places here, uh, coppery. That was my, that you already discussed. Yes. Any for you? No, we didn't really go anywhere new despite all our travels. We've been to Portugal and Lisbon before we went back to Santa Barbara. We try and go there every year, at least once a year. That's the beach for us. Santa Barbara's just amazing, lovely, lovely. Play one of the loveliest places on earth and very accessible from California. We got to find more, we did the EA episode down there. We got to find more acquired related reasons to go. Yeah, it's right. Trip lives down there. He's got to figure it out. That's right. Well, with that listeners, I think we will see you in 2023. We would love to see you in the Slack. We'll be hanging out there over the holidays. If you want to listen to the LP show, we actually just recorded two other great LP shows that'll be coming out soon. You can join and get those two weeks early at acquired.fm/LP or you can search acquired LP show in any podcast player and get access to them two weeks after LP's get them. Anything else, David? One very, very important last thing. A big thank you to all of you. We, uh, we talked about it a lot on this episode. We truly have the best audience in the world the best community in the world. Ben and I just pinch ourselves like literally on a weekly if not daily basis that we get to do this, that I get to do this as a living and it's all thanks to you all. We just get so much joy out of putting this show together. We can talk for hours just about the year and all the fun. Whether that's interesting to other people remains to be seen, but every business should know their source of power and their source of differentiation and ours is all of you. So thank you so much for being on the journey with us. It's been an amazing seven years and here's to seven more. Indeed. Happy holidays. Happy holidays.