Hoja Lopez Returns

This is a headgun podcast. People would really like me when they first met me, and then the relationship would peak at the beginning and eventually every single one of those friendships would. It was like they would get to know me, and it was harder to be my friend. Why was that? You know, I was a big liar and a thief, and, yes. Oh, hi. What's up, my queen? Are you going to pop that water open right at the start? I don't know. Everybody watch. I think this can be sexual if you try hard enough, everybody. I'm feeling turned on. Oh, never mind. You blew it for me personally. What's going on, dude? Oh, my God. There's a word in Spanish called me desvele, which means that I stayed up late, barely slept in that one here, but I think you did the same thing. What? Why were you up late? Yes, and I went to a party last night. What party? Okay. Okay. It was my friend first down. Oh, very well. Yeah. But you guys, I was a hit. You were a hit? I was on fire last night, but I was on fire, but I was also allowing other people to speak. I held course. I held course. I really was at my most career on yesterday. It was, I really had the time of my life, and then, of course, everyone left, and I started like what's the median age here, which is like 25, and I went, oh, they don't know what good is yet. So I seemed like a shining star. They were drawn in by the expertise and wisdom of an older, beautiful woman. Exactly right. Who knows the world a little bit? Who knows the world a bit? I've been through at least two, like, you know, psychosexual three-sums. Yeah. I've definitely like, you know, dated a married person. I remember this. Yeah. Yeah. I remember hearing about this. Yeah. Yeah. That's huge. There is something so electric about when you go to a party and you're fucking on. Like, hold on. I can prove it right now. It is, this is my stage, and it's a three-bedroom apartment in like Humboldt Park, and everybody here is obsessed with me, and that's the thing. I'm obsessed back. Yeah. You have to be obsessed back. I knew what kind of headspace you were in last night when you said I allowed other people to speak. Yeah. And when you're on like that, it's like, I don't really have to see the mic tonight. But a generous charismatic queen lets the other speak even when she's killing it. Absolutely. Because also, there's a self-interest there. You know that if you keep going, you'll lose it. Yeah. You're going to lose them if you don't let them in. Something to be said about that. Absolutely. And the host was so lovely. They did paint marbling, so it was like, everybody brought a piece of paper, and then they did like the ink stuff, and then you kind of dip your papers in a very 70s sort of craft. But that's what the kids are into. It's crafts at parties. Really? Yes. Now, why do you think that makes me mad? That made me mad. Why do you think that makes me mad? I don't know. Like, the idea of showing up to a party and someone being like, we're going to marble paper together. It does upset me a little bit, doesn't it? And there was like a corner for it. It was in the corner. It wasn't sort of a centrally located marbling sort of set up, but I've been to parties recently where there's sort of like, there's kind of like rooms that you can go into, and instead of there being like dark, sex heroine, it's like, you know, like four guys playing domino together. Yeah. And like reading the water. Well, you don't even have the bottoming club? Yeah. Yeah. It is kind of the bottoming club. But I think it's only joyful to do a papercraft at the party. I wonder why it upsets me so. Yeah. I think that's probably a me problem, but I'm like, that did that struck that struck anger into my heart. Do you want to help? Do you want to give me like the, the, my thesis, I'm really into Spanish right now. I don't know what's going on. This is my second word. I can't conjure in English. Is this your first language? It is. Yes. It is my first language. I'm really into my native tongue right now, actually. I just made it in America for 20 years that sometimes I do speak it. I think officially English better than I speak Spanish. Oh, really? And I'm better. I know how to be gay in English. I don't know how to be gay in Spanish. That is so fascinating. Yes. There's a whole culture in English of being gay that I really identify with. And then I try to be gay in Spanish and it's flat. I can only be gay in Spanish in the way of like Con Luguerre, Sin Liguerre, like who has a place who doesn't have a place, Pasivo, Activo. Like I can only do like, I've been in Spanish speaking countries on Grindr enough to back and do like gay sex. You could do gay sex in Spanish. I can do gay sex in Spanish. And some of the hottest sex I've ever had in my whole entire life has been, well sure with the guys who speak Spanish, but also just with, there have maybe, maybe been, I would say, maybe two to five percent of my sex has been with someone that we didn't speak a shared language. And um, but you did. I liked it. But you really did. I had fun with those. I like that. But that is so fascinating to me because there is a, where there's the ancient ritual of sex, which is very different than just, you know, misbucking. But um, when I'm doing it. Do you feel like connected to your forefathers? I'm so glad. I'm so glad. Michelle got so mad when I did that. Check her head so big. Yeah. There's no difference when I'm doing it, sweetheart, but tell you stories. Stop! You really become sort of a very forward Italian father sometimes. You know, just too much, divulging too much information to your children. Yeah. Well, I like sex. I like, yeah. I mean, the, the nice thing about sex with someone, you, okay, when you're having sex with someone and you don't speak the same language, there's a beautiful thing of like really, you always pay attention during sex if you're, if you're doing it well, but you really are like locked in because you're like, I want to make sure that we're both, if I have to pull out the phone to be like, wait, tell me what's going on, you know? Yeah. But you can tell most things you need to know about how it's going by just really paying attention and great sex is just paying attention, but wow, when you're really paying attention. Well, that's the people who get to have sex with me, my friends. Just bless the people who get to do it with you, Kayla, because like, the, if you have sex, the way that you do comedy, the way that you think about the word, I just genuinely think that you're, they're having a great time. You know, it can be. It can be a great time. How are you and Rachel, your partner, have been together for so long, long, long term sex. How's the sex going? You know, there is something called lesbian bed death, which I do believe that all lesbians are staving off at every single moment and every decision that you make day in and day out is to save off the lesbian bed death. I think women have this sort of like peaks of desire and they're very like hard to overlap at the same time. And so while we don't schedule sex, there is a level of like, we've got to do it. Like this is the good for the relationship a lot of times. And then other times is the most natural, fun, organic, easy thing, but we've been together for nine years now and like, she has a way. She's so horny all the time. She's obsessed with my body. She's constantly touching it. She's constantly, and I'm going get the fuck off of me. You like, we have different drives, and so I think I learned to like, give into sex first and then she's learned more how to let the flirting and the emotional side come first. Like, we've both had to meet there. Give into sex didn't feel great to hear. Sorry. I'm so sorry. What do you mean by give into sex? Like, the idea for me is that you start with flirtation and like, the excitement, but after you've been with someone for a while for me personally, I don't think it's for everyone. You have to sometimes do sex first and then get into it as it's happening. You know what I mean? Oh, I understand what you mean. Yeah. Like order of rep, Pemdos. Pemdos. Exactly. You have to sort of decide that sex is happening and that, and you have to go with that decision. And then eventually in the first, you know, it just takes a little bit and then you're like, I fucking love this. I forgot that I was having a great time with this. Your brain just, I don't know what that is. I think your brain wants to continue in the inertia of like your day. I think women's brains can be very like, what's the next thing? What's the, like, what do I need to work on or what's, you know, what does the house need? What does my mom need? And I think Rachel's brain is very much like, literally focused. She wants to come. Yeah. And I'm like, yeah, I could come. Yeah. I could come. Yeah, Rachel. That's my boy. Yeah. She is. She's a horned dog. Okay. This woman is like, literally, I have to like shoot her like little fucking looks like shut the fuck up because she's like talking about my tits in front of me, to her friends. Rachel! Rachel, stop! Stop! Those are my tits. I'm kind of like in a little, um, but I do have to. You guys never did open, right? No. Well, we've talked about this a little bit of like the door is open, but neither of us walks through it really. Yeah. Um, we just, I think we sometimes I think just don't like, this is great, don't let's not add more complications and variables to it. Yeah. But I also don't find anyone that I want to make out with and have sex with a lot. So really? Yeah. Sex, I understand. Sex. Sex. If I'm in a situation, if I'm in a relationship or something like that. somebody and I am falling in love with them or in love with them. Sex, I'm like kind of like whatever. Maybe I'd have sex with someone else if the opportunity, if I was like away for a long time or something, I'd get horny. I also don't care if my partner sleeps with other people that much these days, but making out, I'm always wanting to make out with someone new. - Oh, making out is delightful. - I'm gonna cry 'cause-- - Making out is incredible. - Making out with someone new. Ooh. - The sort of like take a lot of the throat. Sometimes I feel like there's a thing, like just coming out of my tongue just like, 'cause make, you know? Yeah, what is that? - Don't fight that. I like making out with someone new. It's one of the best things that ever happens to me. - Have you made out with a girl like in the last five, six years? What was the last time you made out with her? I didn't finish that question, but you know. - The last time I made out with a girl, no, no. - No. - It's been a long time. - Yeah. - I'm not a, I will say I have a lot of friends that are, well, I think just maybe more fun and more progressive or advanced than I am. Like it feels like they're correct, that they're like, making out is like a fun. Like if I'm making out, it's 'cause I like, it's like a sexual thing to me. - You wanted to lead one thing to another. - It doesn't have to be one thing to another. I'm quite happy to just make out sometimes, but I only wanna do it with people that I'm like, sexually attracted to. I have friends that are like, oh my God, I'll make out with my friends just for something to do at the bar or whatever. And I'm like, yeah, I'm not really my mom. - I don't do that either. - Do you know what I mean? - No, I totally understand what you mean. There has to be an electric feeling. - Yeah, exactly. - The kids has to feel spicy in some way. Yeah, I feel that. - It feels like making out with a friend. Like I've done it, I've done it in-advert. I wasn't doing it to make out with a friend. I've tried making out with a friend that I thought maybe there would be a spark with. And when there's not that spark of like, we might fuck, we could fuck, we both wanna fuck who knows if we will fuck. When that spark isn't there, it just feels like making out with someone at work. Like acting or on camera or something where it's like, oh, it's like, this just isn't the same. It's the, there's some like spirit of making out removed from it. But I'm like, now we're just touching faces. - Yeah, it could be any other body part as well. It might feel the same. - Totally, I think it's cool though. When people are like that, I wish I got joy. If I could get like a same feeling from just making out with a friend, God, my life would be so easy. - Yeah, do you, when you walk into a party, do you like scan a room and do you go, who can I make out with here? Like what's the, when you walk in, what is your like prime directive? - Not really, I'm not going out with the intention. Usually I'm going genuinely, I'm usually going out for two reasons. Either I'm going out to have fun with my friends and feel alive and it's I really wanna be out or more often I'm going out out of some sort of obligation that I was my need to be out. I have some reason I have to be at this thing. I told someone I would be there, whatever. It's funny, we've been to a couple parties this month for the movie and I every time I've said, I'm staying for 45 minutes doing my obligation and going home and then I have fun. I stay out for four or five hours. But yeah, I'm not really ever walking into a bar or a party being like, who am I gonna? - Who is it here? - But when it happens, it's so great. It is, I definitely don't stand for that, but I am doing little taste and bites of who's fun here. - Yeah. - Who's interesting here? Who's gonna say something crazy to me that's gonna be fun and entertaining to hang out with? - Yeah. - And then I am at times when I'm in that mode last night dropping people like flies too. - Yeah. - A little bit. I can be a little cutthroat at a party that I'm trying to have fun at. - Yeah, oh yeah, I'm moving on. - I gotta move on from this conversation. - I'm moving on. - Yeah, I got hit, well listen, they might listen to this, but I got hit with a couple of duds. (laughing) - I'm so sorry if you were at this party. - It's okay, we've, I'm so sorry. - I'm so sorry, yes. - We've all been the duds. - Sometimes everyone has to play the duds. - Thank you Caleb for this perspective. We've all been the duds. - We've all been the duds, it's okay. - And last night, they were not on their best, like they were not the shiniest that they've ever been. - I have felt myself at parties. I have felt myself in a conversation being like, this person deserves to be talking to someone better right now. (laughing) No, I'm not on right now. - Yeah. - Okay. I'm looking around the room. I'm going, there's more on people in here. I'm talking to somebody who's on right now. - Yeah. - And I release them. I release them. I go, you go talk to someone who's on. - And that's your power too. - That's the raw, to hold on to someone when you're not at your best. - Tonight I'm the duds. - It's a torturous thing to do to someone. - Yes. - It is, let them go. - And you know what? Let me tell you something. Release them. - Release them. - Release them. - And if their eyes are glazed over. - Release them. - That's why it's so nice. When you're around to people where you don't feel like you have to host anything. You don't feel like you have to make it fun. Other people make it fun too. And you can volley and that is, I feel like all of my bones just settle. I go, oh, thank God. - I know it's electric. - It's electric and that was me at the party last night. - You were in it last night. - I was so in it. Oh, something else that happened. Somebody made a delicious shepherd's pie that was passed around because she hates cakes. - I think I'm getting mad again. - She was so hardcore about not wanting a cake. And so they passed around a delicious shepherd's pie with a joint lit at the top of it. - I'm back. - Yeah. - I'm back unfortunately. - I hate to have that brought me back. - But that brought me back. - Oh my God. Do you ever have moments at parties where you need to take little breaks? Like, you'll go to the bathroom. So, they'll totally be quiet. - 100% also. - I'll go to the bathroom and I will just stand in the bathroom sometimes and do this. - Are you cold? - Yes. - I sat in a little back like stair area. You know how like Chicago houses have that. Like enclosed stairs going up the back of homes. And I sat there by myself and a woman walked out and she saw my face. She went, "Oh, I'll come back later." - Yes, I'll be back. - God bless that. - She read that sign. - God bless the person who sees you having a moment and lets you have it. - And just goes, "Mmmmmmmmmmm." Amen. - Get out. You do whatever you need to do there. - Let the church hear it. - It's so beautiful. - Yeah, you just need to regulate, you need to calm down. Nothing like a silent moment. And cold, I can't be hot and have a silent moment. That's like, that's a prison, that's a hell. - One of the most exciting things that ever happens to me in my entire life is when I'm in a hot space feeling overstimulated and I can step out to a cold outside and be quiet. And I need that. - You have to have it. - Because when I go back in there, I'm back at work. - I'm back at work. - I'm gonna service those people. - When I went back into the party after that, what I'd call a 10 minute sort of like, sensory deprivation chamber in the back of the house, I walked back in, killed. - Yes, killed. - That's so beautiful. - Yeah, I will say, and not to talk about this every single time we're together, no chairs in that house. - God damn it. - Not a wanna chair in that fucking house, I could sit there. - And I knew there was something about the crafting in the shepherd's pie that did let me know. - It was. - It wasn't gonna be a comfy seat house. - But Nana's not a comfy seat house. - I wanna tell thin people, I'm gonna try not to cry. - Yeah. - Thin people, I'm gonna try not to cry when I say this to you. Thin people. - Thin people. - When you're buying seats for your home, I want you to think of the fattest person you've ever seen. - Thank you. - I want you to think of the fattest, biggest, chunkiest motherfucker you've ever encountered. And I want you to think, if I had them over, would they enjoy this seat? And if the answer is no, I'd like you to skip it thin people, thin people, if you can hear me. Thin people, if you can hear me right now, thin people. - But they can, you have a lot of thin fans, I feel. - I do, and it's concerning because they are small, and thin people, your seats aren't working. - No. - And I'm not changing. - No. - I'm not gonna lose weight to come over. - No. - You need to get different chairs. - And I'm gonna tell you something right now, your little mid-century fucking furniture that you purchased. - Yeah. - It's a hazard to me. I will break your beautiful things. - Mid-mod. - It doesn't, mid-mod. - More like, good God. I gotta get the fuck outta here. (laughing) - She had their dining room table, it was so cute. It was a bench that has the seats attached to the table, so you can't move the bench out in order to sit. So you literally have to be a certain diameter of the furniture, anyways. - Antique, more like, I think, I'm gonna break this fucking thing. - I'm gonna break this fucking thing. - Have you ever broken a chair? - Oh my God. - Are you kidding? - That's how I got my strength. I'm gonna tell you right now, not by physically breaking a chair, but the dignity that you have to have, coming back up after breaking a chair. - Get yourself up. - In front of a group of people. - Yes. - Like a penis rising from the ashes. - Absolutely. - Yeah, pulling yourself out of the rubble. - Absolutely. It's just a hand first. And then you come out ask you. - Trevor, when you face covered in ashes. - As a fat person, when you break a chair in front of other people, the way you have to roll off the wreckage. - 'Cause you can't get straight back up, baby. You can't get straight back up. - When you have to roll off the wreckage onto your elbows and knees, and then begin to ply, you're like a phoenix rising from the ashes, you have to pry yourself off the ground. - Oh, slapping away the hands of helpers. - Don't touch me. - Don't fucking touch me. - Like Lieutenant Dan, and for his calm. - Yeah, it's absolutely don't touch me. - On New Year's Eve, when he wants to put himself back in his chair, you have to get yourself up. Oh, it's you, but then you stand tall. - You said I can go through anything. - Yes. - I can do anything. One, absolutely, it is invigorating to follow the chair, come back out, break it, and then just be you again. - Yeah, to stand in, to stand in the rubble of the chair that you broke with your just by having body that you put on it. - Yeah, absolutely. - And to look around and go, everyone's set with this. - Yeah, and to watch the apologists. - Yes. - To watch them all feel bad. - Yes, and to watch them. - They said, "We should have thought of this." And I go, "Yes, you should have." - And to watch the chair owner, and if it's a good chair owner. - If it's a good chair. - To watch the chair owner go, "Oh, there was something already kind of off with that chair." (laughing) - If there's already a little string-- - And you know-- - Well, I sat down on it and felt fine. - It felt good. - There was nothing off with the chair when I touched it. - Yeah, no, I've forgot. One, there is a succession of chairs that are terrible for fat people. Number one in my mind is the Bad Bunny Puerto Rican chair, the Latino chair. It's the plastic white chair with the corona brand on the back of it. - Oh, that's so interesting. - I didn't think of that as a Latino chair. - Oh, well that's-- - I thought of that as a white trash chair. - Oh, that's so-- - Isn't that beautiful? - Isn't beautiful here. - And you, we're not so different. - We're not so different. That's so beautiful. (laughing) - Why is that-- - Why is my money-- - Bad Bunny uses it? - It's the cover of his album, is that chair. And as soon as I said this man is fat phobic. - Yeah. - I'm very beautiful and good at what he does. - I don't care what his-- I need to see what-- I need to be with him. - He need to be his body. - I need to see what-- - I need to see what they have in the box though. - So add with the little tattoos, his little facial hair-- - You know what sucks about me? - Ooh, I know. - Guys like, okay, oh. - Yeah, go off. - I'm gonna be sick. - Wait, okay. - Straight guys, and I'm not saying he's straight. I'm just saying straight guys. I don't know if he's straight. Straight guys who think they've got it going on, they usually do with me. Do you know what I mean? Like when straight guys have like little tiny tattoos and we're like a fucking key chain on their belt loop. - Oh, yeah. - And like, unfortunately, like when they leave the house and they're like, I'm fine shit. Unfortunately, I usually agree. - They get you. - And that's stupid of me. - Yeah, but it's like, are you the, are you the kind of the person that likes the main jock guy? Like the main football player? - Not exclusively, but yeah. - Yeah, me too. - It's like I was liking other things as well, but yes, I was sometimes into that. - Yeah. - I'm not gonna lie about that. - It's the confidence, and I believe it. I believe it with them. - Yeah. - Yes, bad body is a real, I feel a trickle on my neck with that one. - Also, I'm just gonna say it, a lot of the sport, like when I was developing crushes for the first time in my life, a lot of the sporty guys were nicer than like the theater kids. - You're so fucking right. - The theater kids were mean as fuck. I would talk to the theater kids and be like, I've never heard someone talk like this. (laughing) I was like, I really, I feel in my soul that I should be connected with you, but I've never heard such a hateful and beautifully put together string of words. - Oh, 100%. - And I'm kinda missing hanging out with the football guys right now because they're stupid, but they're nice. - They're like more in their bodies. You know, they're more just about the experience of sort of goofily walking around and touching things. - Yeah. - Theater kids are thinking too hard about every single fucking little thing and I'm describing myself, by the way. - Oh. - Also, Rachel is in this case. She is the experiential body jock and I'm the theater kid. - Yeah, Rachel's like-- - This is our relationship. - Rachel's like truly showing love by like fixing your friends' transmissions and shit and you're like sitting in the house analyzing. - Oh, absolutely. I got mad at her the other day because she was gonna help a friend on a car. I go, what about our car? - What the fucking broken car? - She's like, this is your friend, babe. - It is. It's true. - Yeah. - I think you can be a little, I wouldn't say more stupid, but like you can engage with the world in a lovely sort of like open, easy way. It doesn't always have to be. The criticism, not in a bad way, but just a sort of decryption of every little fucking interaction and every little thing, you know? - Yeah. - But we've reached a low in the conversation are you feeling it right now? Like where do we go from here? Well, I just thought what's next? - That's so interesting. I was thinking in my head, what do you think is the best and worst thing about you? That's what's going on in my head. If about yourself. - I'm not talking about myself. - Yeah. - The best and worst thing about me. It's a really good question. - 'Cause I only think of good things when I think of you. - That's so sweet. - That's wonderful. - Based on my deep love for you. Wait. - I'll start with best, 'cause yeah. Just the number one good thing. Let's start with that one. - Yeah, that one's fun, Dancer. - That was fun to answer. - And the other part sucks. - The other one, we'll see if we get to it. We'll see if I can put, like, sort of prolong that one. - We'll do best and then see if we get back to worst. - If we get back to it. - Do you know what's funny about me? I, speaking of worst things about you. - Yeah. - I'm not about you about worst things about me. - Okay. - Sometimes I can't help, but when I picture people criticizing me, I can't help but to imagine that they had caveats. Have I said this on here before? Like, sometimes, like, sometimes I'll be like, I'll be like, oh, I wonder if that person doesn't like me and I'll be like, what would they say if they didn't like me? And then I'll imagine them saying, like, he's so annoying, but he is funny. (laughing) - They, so it's like the worst thing comes with still, like, I imagine caveats, sometimes when I imagine people criticizing me. That I'm like, that I'm like, they would be right to say that I am annoying, but I think they would have to admit that I am fun. Or I'll like, sometimes my brain will just naturally create caveats. - Yeah, you, you wanna know. - My brain needs it. - Well, there's no absolutes. You're not always bad, you're not always good. - Well, and I think it's because I think it comes from a place of even the people I dislike the most in the world, I do caveats for them. - Oh yeah. - And not even in my own brain, I go, like, God, that person is such a fucking asshole, but credit to them, they are a good painter, you know, or whatever the thing is. - Whatever the thing, yeah, I do that. - I totally do that too. I, I definitely, I was just, not to brand, but I was just reading a nun's book. - Okay. - Helen Prachan's book. - Yes. - And she, prison abolitionist? - Yes. - I bring up prison abolition right now. - Oh, this is good. - All that to say is that if the worst fucking dude who's a fucking murderer and that she has found a way to unconditionally love that person, I go, okay, what can I bring about that in my life? How can I look at an asshole and be like, okay, I know why you're an asshole, the explanation helps, we don't need to hang out, but I see your value as a person. - Oh, that's hard. - It's so hard, it's, I mean, especially now it's so fucking hard to look at people and think of like, what you love about them when you hate them and they seem to hate you, but the best thing about me just to really move through to that. I think I'm someone who is very inclusive. I really want to bring people close and I desire that intimacy with everyone and I'm not afraid to go for it with people that I meet, with friends, with friends, friends, I'm a pursuer of intimacy and care and love and I love that about myself. And I think the friends that I have come to me in a lot of different ways, say how much they appreciate that closeness that I almost like demand of people that are in my life. It's like I want to know everything about you, I want to know what you're thinking about, little things and big things and I, yeah, I pursue it like rapidly. It's where I get all of my energy is that. - I think that's true about you. - Yeah, that's right, thank you. - And that's deeply true about you. I think that's a beautiful one. - Thank you. Yeah, I love that about myself and then I would say, maybe my worst quality. - Oh, we're doing it, okay, wow. - No, we're going. - Okay, wow. - I love talking about myself, so this question is perfect. I would say that the worst part of myself is I can be on the other side of the coin very judgmental and critical. - Wow. - And that sometimes I can take away the joy of moments by criticizing things through the lens of my insecurity, my lack of knowledge, my desire to feel better about myself. And so sometimes I can tear shit down in my brain and in my heart because I'm not feeling good about myself. - Yeah. - So, and I have to really, I have to quiet that voice down quite often. And it affects people negatively in my life, that criticism and that, like, yeah. - That's interesting. I don't see that about you very often. - I hide it so well. - I know. Well, that's nice to that. The worst thing about you being like a bad day scenario, rather than a constant through line is a nice thing. That means you're doing good work. That means that you're establishing, yeah, you know your stuff and you're working on it and doing good. - Yeah. And I don't, I don't know if you had this, but for many years thought I was terrible and a bad person and oh yeah. I spent, probably until like maybe 27, really thinking the worst of myself. Like I was, oh, it was peaks of like sort of delusional charisma and then couldn't back it up with any real substance of friendship. It was really hard. People would really like me when they first met me and then the relationship would peak at the beginning and eventually every single one of those friendships would. It was like they would get to know me and it was harder to be my friend. - Why was that? - You know, I was a big liar and a thief. And yes, I am, yeah they ate. - All of my lying and stealing of course. - Yes, yes, yes. I was a big liar, a big sinner. - Yeah. - No, I was a big like, I think just toxic ass, full toxic bitch, you know? And I was, it was also mired in a lot of charisma. - Yeah. - In a lot of dictatorships over my friendships. And it was, - Yeah, until I was probably about 27 or 28, a truly, a Theaving and Making Excuses for a Bass. - Stop stealing. - Oh, I stopped stealing. I think there was a little klepto style stuff going on, you know? - I want to ask though, how did you, I'm sure, I'm sure there are people listening to this that are relating to at least some piece of this, I don't know about the lying in the Theaving, but how did you, I think more broadly, like you identified that your relationships weren't going the way you wanted them to, then you did probably the harder part, which is I think many people can identify like, I kind of isn't going the way I'd like it to go. Then you did the harder part of identifying your role in it, which is one of the hardest parts of self-improvement and happiness is realizing that you have a shared creation in every dynamic you're a part of, whether you like it or not, you're not a victim, you are playing a role in every dynamic that you're in, whether it's allowing bad behavior, or participating in bad behavior. So you recognized your role in it and then you made a change. Was there a person that said something to you or a thing you read or what happened that helped you change the behavior that was making you unhappy? Do you know? - Oh yeah. I was-- - Is it really dark and deep in the dark part? - No, it's not dark and deep. It's not dark and deep, it's, I, my friend James, who I love so much, he, I, he had this amp at my house and I couldn't pay my rent and I sold his amp and took the money and paid my rent. And it caused a ripple effect in my friend group at that time. People that were very close to me and all of them were like, hey, we just can't abide by this behavior. Yeah, we're done. And so-- - You're right, that's us. - Yeah. And so I lost my entire kind of close circle of friends in that moment at 2728. And they sort of created a lot of boundaries around me and it was barbed wire boundaries too. It wasn't just like, you can't come around. It was like, get the fuck away, you know? And that really, you know, you're alone in a fuck, like in a room and, you know, who do you call your mom? You know what I mean, you call your fucking mom 'cause it's the only fucking person in your life that is gonna still talk to you at that point. And so I call my mom and she really honed in on this thing that I really have taken very seriously ever since, which is like the forgive yourself and then you can move on. - Yeah. - And I always got stuck, the wheels got stuck in the forgiving myself part. God, this is so self-help, E.K.L.A, but like, truly. - No, I don't. - Now, I fuck up, I go, I forgive myself, you fucked up, move forward. You can make amends from that point on. If you stick around and you're like, I did this thing and it was so fucked up. Like, of course, you're gonna think about it and figure out what your part in it was, but don't let that get in the way of actually making amends with people in changing things. I find that if you get too stuck in the like, I'm a fuck up and I'm bad, that was the shift. It's like, actually, I'm not bad. I forgive myself, even if no one else does. And that really started a whole new era of my life. That was so much fucking fun. - Well, you have such beautiful, deep, rich, varied friendships in your life now. - Absolutely. - So it obviously worked. I think the thing you're talking about though of am I a good person, am I a bad person? I think about this a lot with am I a happy person or not, et cetera. The line of thinking of am I x, y, or z type of person is to me inherently negative. I don't really worry about if I'm a good or bad person. I worry about if I am doing good or bad. Like, sometimes we will all do bad and sometimes we will all be mean and sometimes we'll all be negative and sometimes we'll all be critical or selfish or whatever. Those behaviors occur naturally like in human life. - Yeah. - That doesn't mean you are behaving selfishly on a Monday, doesn't mean that every day then's forward that you are a selfish person, capital ASP, it just you were selfish on Monday. And I don't know, the focus on, I think shifting the focus on from what type of person am I to how am I behaving is way better. 'Cause it allows you to be like, oh, I was kind of bad yesterday or I've noticed that lately I've shown up in X-Way and my friendships or whatever. - Oh yeah. - Oh, and to have a lovely friend who calls you and goes like, hey, I noticed you've been interrupting me a lot lately. I had a friend call me about that a couple months ago. - Oh my God. - She was like, hey, I just wanna let you know, I feel like you've been interrupting me a lot lately. She goes, I'm not mad or anything. I just wanna let you know, it's happened four or five times. - Yeah. - And that's it. I just have that for you. - I'm six, I'm six one half dozen the other on that because did you feel like you were interrupting them a lot? - You feel like it was based in truth? - Yeah, there was something going on between us that, like, I'm gonna be honest, I felt like she was being a, she was just talking to talk. - Yeah. - Talking to talk, talking to just the say stuff. - Yeah. - And sometimes when I feel like people are just like, wanting to hear their own voice a lot. - Yeah. - And I told this to her, I'll be like, let me redirect this a little bit. And this is my organizational skills and benevolent manipulation. I could probably stop doing that. I don't need to do that all the time. The reason I'm, the reason that bumps me is because I think always you're welcome to voice any relationship I have in my life. I would welcome someone voicing their concern. I just have been in friendship sometimes that I've had to like, not cut off, but like slow down or pull the brakes on a little bit that like, I just won't engage in like constant evaluation and criticism. And so sometimes those things I'm like, like I feel like you've been cutting me off a lot lately. It's totally fine if I'm doing that. And if I recognize the behavior is true, I'm happy to hear it and we'll change scores. But sometimes I've been friends with people that are so therapist and so critical and constantly evaluating that I'm like, you're not wrong, but if it comes up all the time, I'm gonna eventually get the vibe that we just aren't a fit. Like there are just certain times that I'm like, I don't wanna hear from you anymore about your little evaluations and criticisms of our dynamic. At a certain point, you might just not like talking to me and we should stop doing it so much. - Yeah. - Like not every relationship is worth so much work. - That is such a hard thing to learn too, because right now, especially I think you're taught, like preserve the friendship, keep moving, move through stuff, work through stuff. And it's like actually, you just have a nicer time if we hang out less. - To a point. - Less. - There are some relationships. I think there are relationships you'll identify them. You'll know what they are in your heart. There's no hard and fast rule, which is why I would never be like, don't tell me I'm interrupting you. Sometimes it's nice to hear those things when I have friendships and homes and I are very honest with each other. Homes is the type of relationship that I've had for long enough and has been beautiful enough and we've been through enough that anything home says to me about my behavior, I'm gonna listen. But then there are more tertiary friendships that I'm like, damn, the last six times we've talked, you've had some weird gripe about our dynamic and whether it's valid or not, I just think we need to spend less time together. Like maybe we're just not a match and that is so fucking fine. - It's so fine. Have you been able to say that to people in them react positively? - I've done it both ways. Like there have been times where I've naturally put distance between a relationship and we've kind of tapered off a little bit and I haven't put words to it because they haven't asked and I feel like sometimes that's generosity. Like sometimes it's like-- - It's your little white lie. It's a different version of that of like, the distance can be enough. - You don't wanna hear that. - Also, I don't owe you a thesis on why we're not talking as much lately. Everyone's busy and we're adults. Anytime someone asks, I will tell. If someone's like, hey, I feel like there's distance, I will absolutely be like, yes, I'm putting distance because you've been on my nerves and every time we talk I feel like it's a criticism and I'm just really not feeling it. And so that's what it is. And I've, I've distance friendships and been like, hey, I just really think we're not on the same page. And it almost really never responds from a criticism of our dynamic. It almost always is a recurring thing that I'm like, I'm not really digging the energy lately. And that's okay. - Yeah. - I would say, by the way, maybe this has happened. - Six times in my life? - Yeah, not that much. - Yeah, this doesn't come up a lot. - Yeah, I feel the same way. It doesn't come up too much. I feel like I've gotten good at being like, I'm gonna take a little step. You're a dinner friend. You're not a come over to my house and hang out friend. You're a hang out with a group of people friend. You're not a one-on-one friend. It's so fucking cool though to know the difference because I feel like you can get along with so many more people and enjoy so many more people by keeping them at the right sort of like distance. - Also, there's a real art and importance, I think, to learning who you should be taking notes from. - Yeah. - Like what do you mean by that? - I don't need notes from everybody. - Yeah. - I don't need to hear what everyone thinks of my art or behavior or work or attitude or disposition. I don't, not everyone's notes are valuable. - Yeah. - Like there just are people that I meet and we get in, like we're in a work relationship or a friendship or a romantic like entanglement. And sometimes you hear the note and you go like, "Oh, I actually don't need to hear notes from you "because I actually don't like the way that you're moving "or I don't think that your notes are valid." I think about this a lot more in the work context. - This is helping me so much right now. - Oh, direct at bitch. - Really? - Oh, absolutely. - We've made contacts. - We've made contacts and it is like vibrating inside of me right now and it's literally, I'm going, I know what to do about this particular situation I'm going through. One hunt very helpful. - Well, you think about it. Why would every note from every person be valuable? Would you let a stranger on the street tell you about yourself? - No, no. - Every note is not valuable. - Although they do. - They a lot. - Strangers love to say a little thing to me sometimes. - Same. - Sometimes it's nice, sometimes it's mean. - Sometimes it's nice. - Sometimes it's mean. - Yeah, I go, I don't need to have video in it, but thank you. - Yeah, thank you for sharing it. - Thank you for sharing that. - I think it comes up more from me in a work context where I'm like, sometimes people want to give you notes that I'm like, well, you haven't made anything that I love. - So I actually don't want to hear from you about my work. And there's zero malice in there. that? It's just like, you're doing something different than I'm doing. I'm not going to take notes from somebody who hasn't made something that I love because in what world would that make sense. And I think sometimes when you're a nice person or you're a kind person, we want to be like, we want to hear everything with an open heart and keep the heart open. But sometimes openness doesn't mean. Sometimes openness means letting a thing in and letting it walk around for a second and then releasing it. Openness doesn't mean that you hang on to anything that anyone says to you. Yeah, I think that when I said the thing that I like about myself, the intimacy piece is that and the inclusivity piece, my DNA, my brainwaves are like want to be open to everyone. I want to let people in because that's how I sort through, like who can be close. But I do think that there is a level of exhaustion that comes from that desire and from letting people in that way. And I do, I'm very much, what do you think? What do you need? What do you want? And it causes me trouble, of course. Yeah. Not big trouble, but a little bit of trouble. Well, that's the other thing is like, I don't know, my life is pretty not big trouble, but a little trouble is the story of my stuff where I'm like, my life is pretty cool. My relationships are like in really good places. I mostly don't have conflict. God in my early 20s, I had some friendships that I really had to let go. Like those six people are all pretty much from my early 20s. Yeah. That like, I just had really turbulent relationships. And now I'm at a place in my life where I'm like, that was crazy. I actually don't have turbulence in my life. I mean, if there is a level of turbulence that are just comfort in my life, it's like because I don't have it that often, it's like a fucking light focus on the discomfort and the problem. And it becomes like, I go, why is that happening? And I have to figure it out and try to push it away or try to solve it really. But yeah, I feel the same way. See, that's interesting because I because my my work life and my love life and my family life and my friend life, pretty much mostly cool. Like I really don't, like I said, I don't have a lot of like huge conflicts or crazy mess. So I do sometimes feel myself getting sucked into a small thing and getting really upset about it. Yes. And I have to stop myself and go like, wait, this actually isn't that big of a deal. And I'm kind of giving it more weight than it needs to. And like actually, everything's pretty okay. And I can relax. Yeah. But I have a tendency to get like, it's almost like you want to be invested in something. You're like, you're like, oh, I, the drama is like fuels. Yeah. A little bit of drama when I'm don't have it when I'm drama's right. Yeah. I will lock on to that shit and try to you feel yourself on your seventh phone call to your friend about it. You're like, I'm not getting anything from this. That is how you know it's too much. Yeah. You're like, wow, I've talked about this five fucking times in the last like three days. Yeah. But that is a way of your exercising the problem. You're just like framing it over and over and over and over again until you get fucking tired of yourself. And then it gets removed from the dog. It was an interesting thing when you're retelling drama. The first like three or four people you talk to about it, you're finding the beats. You're finding the beats. You're like, you're like finding the beats where you're like, okay, that part needed to go a little later. And the reveal will seem crazier if I do it this way. And then like the fifth or sixth person you talk to about it, you go like, I found the story. Yeah. I know what the drama is. Yes. And you know what the most fascinating emotional parts of it are. Yes. You know who's the villain, but also you have caveats for the villain. Yeah. caveats for the villain. That's always important. Yeah. Yes. You've made yourself the most reasonable character in the drama. Yes. But you admit too soft. But you admit to your fault in the drama because you know that. That's right. Maybe that's how you become found the way to tell the story. God. And then if you stop right there, if you stop and let it go and move on or go to the person or when you if you stop right there, life is good. On the seventh or eighth retail, when you've already nailed the story, you've already figured out your feelings about it. There's nothing else to realize. You're telling the same person again. Yeah. You're telling one person. And that person was on the other end of it. Just like just taking it. Yeah. You got to stop. That's when you ideally you stop before that, but if you catch yourself there, then it's like you really got to move on. Yeah. And if you write it, it only takes like one or two times. Yeah. We're just sickening too. Yeah. It's like just write it. Yeah. But I've definitely told friends I can't talk about this anymore. Oh, yeah. Me too. I've said, hey, I'm so sorry. I don't want to hear about that conflict anymore. I can't hear. That's crazy. Your co-worker sounds like a bitch. I'm done hearing about it. I love you to death. I gave I gave I did my part. I nodded so emphatically through the first telling on the fifth one. We're going to have to do solutions or move on. They find little colors, little flavors, though. And if it's interesting, they're still not landing on the story. But I need to move on. We've got to move on. Yeah. Do you do you find yourself are you good at knowing if you're talking too much? Do you ever find yourself in that situation? I don't think that's one of my problems. I have I have problems, but I don't think that they're I don't think that me talking too much is usually one of them. Yeah. Yeah. I do so. I have I have talked too much, but I think I'm pretty good at asking questions and moving on. Yeah. I at least I hope so, because it's one of my biggest pet peeves. When other people talk too much? When somebody is on like the I'll say 23rd minute of a story that should have been six minutes. I feel myself being like, right, right, right, right. Anyway, anyway, anyway, what's everyone's favorite color? Like I'm like, let's get the fuck off of this. It's the redirect. Yes. You have to redirect because you are counting the beats in the room. And you know, it's been talked about for two fucking long. And I'm feel I'm like the craziest thing to me is I'm like, how are you not feeling? How are you? That person shept their phone three times. That person just went to the bathroom, even though they were in their 10 minutes ago. It's the eyes glazed over at the party. Release them. Release them. Release them. We're releasing them. We're releasing you. The power of release. The power of it let you. Yeah, but again, the caveat. Yeah. Trying to think of the last time I talked too much. Oh, yeah. The last time I watched someone's eyes glaze over when I was talking. I don't know if I can place it. When was it? When was it? Did I have I know I remember this? I know why I'm thinking I'm going when was it? When did he do it? I remember this sensation sometime in the last two months. I remember I had the sensation of saying something that didn't go over and feeling embarrassed. But I can't remember what it was. But that's a nice thing about my brain. My brain will move on. Oh, yeah. I've trained myself to be like to be like, that didn't happen. Do you do that little thing where you can trail off right at the end? Or do you go, I'm fucking losing them? Depends on if I've walked in because a lot of times will happen as you realize you're in a circle of seven and you realize you've lost six of them, but you find the one person and then you will hone in on that one. But but but but anyway. And you're like that. And so then there you they're your target. Oh, my God. Okay. This happened to me recently. Yeah. Okay. I was in a group of seven or eight people. Yeah. And there were two very powerful speakers who did not want to stop speaking. I remember you talking about this. Yeah. And I want to tell you because this is so stupid, but these two people would then realize that either of them we're going to stop talking, right? And so they would each individually attach to the person closest to them and continue speaking, creating what I can only call a fractal of division in which now half of the group is talking is holding court with this person. And the other half of the group is holding court with this person essentially. And I'm observing the entire thing happen going, I just want to be together guys. I just and I keep trying to push the two groups together. They were two powerful. Yeah. They were too powerful. And they did not notice that they were doing it over and over and over again. And you know what? Can I say I'm happy for them? Yeah. That sounds like they had a beautiful evening. I bet they had a great time. I bet they went to bed feeling like what a night. What a beautiful evening. Isn't that nice? It is. Well, I do think delusion is correct. And there are ways in which you and I are delusional. And we don't totally know about it yet. And I can't wait to find out. I know that I'm delusional. Oh, it's part of liand. By the way, I know that I'm annoying. Yeah. You think I don't know that I'm annoying? Oh, of course I'm annoying. Listen to me. Yeah. I'm fucking annoying. Yeah. But it's awesome the way that I'm annoying. Yeah. It's a beautiful type of annoying. It's gorgeous. No, I am annoying. I'm happy to be annoying though I'm fine with it because if the alternative is being born, like I do need to remind myself sometimes that when people are annoyed with me, I'm like only boring people are like unobjectionable all the time. I don't want to be a boring person. I would rather be annoying. Yeah. That's my take about me. That's really beautiful. The best thing about myself is that I am loyal. I think that's maybe my favorite thing about myself. I'm so sorry I didn't ask it back. You don't have to. I'm giving it because I felt bad for asking you and you being the only one who answered. I've touched your hands so many times. I just feel very close to you today. Today. Yes. I mean, yeah, especially. Say it today. Stop it. Beautiful. I feel I like that I'm loyal. I think that's something nice about me. I feel like I really give people. I give people chances. Maybe to a fault sometimes, but I like it. I wouldn't change it. And then my least favorite thing about myself. Oh, there are a couple or maybe the most difficult thing about myself. I'm rigid about what I like. Things need to be my way. Oh, wait. That's what I'm mine too. I know. Well, you and I are the same ones. And it's tough because it was really good for me at my job. I have taste. And so it really works for me at work. Sometimes not for you guys, but shout out. Yeah, it's really hard. But my thing, things that I make work because I know how I want them. And but then it carries into other aspects of my life where I'm like, I really could be less rigid and I'll feel myself being rigid and I'll feel myself being like wanting things my way and being annoyed that it's not going exactly my way. And I'll feel myself in it being like God you're being annoying right now, and I can't stop I mean I don't care. It should have gone my way, but you also there is this thing right which is that you're right a lot And I'm right a lot listen. I can't we can't Say that chances, chances shaking Thank you so much for coming back It's it's disgusting that we're right a lot And you know what we okay, yes, I do identify as someone who's right a lot But I will say it's not that important to be right all the time and I need to relax Yeah, here's the deal sometimes when you're right you could also just shut the fuck up Yeah, and Caleb has to internalize that note. Yeah, like sometimes you are right and you also could shut the fuck up I have absolutely in an era right now where I'm not giving feedback to people about you even sometimes when they ask me Really? I'm going opt out really I'm opting out because I don't the energy that I can't spend it on that Yeah, they're gonna learn that lesson on their own eventually they will get there and maybe another person will help them today It won't be me. Do you know what I feel like in this conversation? Oh, what did you ever see I talk about this a lot Did you ever see that clip of Maya Angelou and Oprah Winfrey in pajamas in bed together? John, what I'm talking about there's a clip of Maya Angelou and Oprah Winfrey in wearing pajamas in bed together And it's that clip if you've ever seen it where Maya Angelou goes when people show you who they are believe them and Oprah goes believe them And they're like they're like being so Girls at a sleepover in the most beautiful way and I sometimes when I'm really locked in with a friend I feel that way yeah, and that's us right now We're in PJs in the bed and it's by the way that conversation is beautiful if anyone hasn't heard it You should go listen to it, but they're like so that moment between them is so awesome and electric Mm-hmm, then you really feel like they're locked in and that's how I feel with you today. That's how I feel Oh, what's so true to you? Lesbians can say Thank you. Thank you. We can say it. We can say it's the funniest fucking word in the dictionary Yes, you can it's the greatest word that's ever existed. Lesbians can say we've done a lot for you guys. Yes, we were okay Yeah, we could say Okay, we think made the quilt. Yes, we made the quilt. Lesbians made the quilt. Okay, we've done a lot for you guys We're the emotional backbone of all of We can say you can say it we can say all of these of course, but yes, you have to be pure of heart to say a slur now Yes, that is how I feel. Yes, if you're gonna say a slur it has to come up put like from a place of Peer-ness of heart. Yes, I am pure at heart and I'm allowed to say I can see those little gay boys eyes twitching when I say it Okay, and I say take it. Do you know how warm? Take it. Do you know how warm I feel when I hear you say the F slur? It warms me and by the way, I'm not gonna stop doing it even if you say no But do you mind that I say the D slur? I would love for you too. It is a beautiful word. It's been retoken. I love saying it. It's been taken a queer people Here's where I want to say to queer people Go off. Tell them Queer people. Queer people, listen up. We talk to thin people or now it's queer people. We talk to you now queer people We are supposed to be making fun of each other. The other people are not supposed to be making fun of us We're supposed to kill them when they when straight people make fun of us. We're supposed to kill them When we make fun of each other that is what we're supposed to be doing. That's right That is what queerness is. I'm like a little tired of these tender queers. The preciousness. Who cares? You're a single thing about themselves. They're like the way that you invalidated. Shut up. I'm going to do it again. Shut up. Like we're supposed I love you. I want to grab these tender queers by the face and I want to say I love you And that's why I'm doing this I am seeing you and I'm making fun of your outfit because I love you That's right. By the way, the first thing you said was to me when I walked in the room Wow, I've never seen you in clashing patterns before. It's all you wear. That's all you wear and I love that about you That's it, but that's a love. It's a love and I Never feel more seen than when somebody is roasting me well if I want into a room and you said And you and you called me and you're like, hey, here comes this fat I would be like, oh god, it's so good to be back with my friends I was so seen by that and it feels like an ancestral communion with queer people before us It really is. Oh, that's beautiful. Thank you. I have a game for you. Yeah, maybe maybe by the way Maybe my favorite so true of all time that you just did. Oh my god. That's so sweet. That was beautiful Are you ready? I'm ready. I'm gonna read you 15 statements. Oh, um, and by the way We're looking for a sponsor for this segment if any if any brands out there want to come out there We're considering branding the true false segment And why I love that because I have a mortgage Okay, I'm gonna read you 15 statements I'm ready. You're gonna tell me as quickly as you can oh off what I just said is true or false and if you get 10 or more correct We are going to give you 50 US dollars. Oh my god. Okay, amazing. I could use that and imagine if I had said like we're gonna give you a Hyundai Sonata You know, that could be a good idea. You don't Hyundai Sonata. I really do. Yeah, Hyundai reach out. Okay, you ready? Yes The main character in the land before times name is little foot true true Gordon Ramsay was born in Scotland true true The microwave oven was invented in 1845 False false it was 1945. Friendster is older than my space True true Pringle is a Greek word for tube. No false The movie 8 mile is three hours long false false an hour and 15 minutes Houston was once the capital of Texas False true the Chicago River the first one you miss is a huge. I know and I'm literally from Houston I'm so sorry. I love you guys so much the Chicago River is longer than the Missouri River False false you don't actually need a stamp to mail a letter False false six vice presidents have been from Illinois True false Nancy Pelosi has been to every continent False false Burger King was originally called Insta Burger King False true lemons float but lime sink True Are you sure false? It's true And half the way's mother invented the Boflex machine it's that false false the longest English word is 189,819 letters long False true how'd she do? Wow Come to drive way Say that Oh, we just love you so much. I love you back. I think we've done a podcast my love done it Thank you guys for having me. Do you want to tell people where they can Find you and how they can support you? Yeah, you can find me at oha Lopez on Instagram H.O.J.A. L.O.P.E.Z. I think it's oh oha oha, right? I changed it. What are you change the handle stop. You're calling me out No, I thought you were just saying your name, but you changed the handle. Yeah, I changed the handle because I'm not A Pacific island Right. I have no claim on a loha. This is sending shockwaves. It's sending shockwaves. I've had it since I was 19 years old Literally two months ago. I changed it to at oha Lopez. Oh, wow. We love you so much. Thank you for doing it I love you angel touch my hand again. I love you. I love you. I love you. Bye. We would make beautiful babies together Oh, I've told you this. Yeah, let's end it here and talk about love camera. That was a hate bomb podcast