HLTH Europe Series: Shaping the future of healthcare in the Middle East

I'm Jane Dwelley. Before we begin a brief note on the timing of this episode, this conversation was recorded in June 2026 before the latest escalation of conflict in the Middle East. While the situation in the region has changed since then, the discussion you're about to hear focuses on the enduring challenges of healthcare leadership, digital transformation and international collaboration. I've chosen to share it because these conversations remain just as relevant now and because the commitment of healthcare professionals to improving patient care continues, even in the most difficult of circumstances. I do hope you enjoy the conversation. I'm so pleased to be joined today by two men who are experts in Middle East, digital health and all of its aspects. I'm going to ask them to introduce themselves and set the scene for us. Let's start with you, Sam. Well, Jane, thank you for having me. It's great to join you. I'm Sam Schoer. I'm a clinician. I'm a lawyer. I work globally. I'm based out of a place called Neon. It's Saudi Arabia, working on digital health, wellbeing and technology. Welcome, Hassan. Hi, everybody. My name is Hassan Chowdry. I'm so proud to be part of this with Chime. Thank you so much. I'm former UK government. For many years, I was helping UK innovation into the region and also helping innovation from that region out. I have many friends there, have run conferences there and I'm in love with the region. Thank you. I'm also in love with the region and that's why I've been working with Chime out there for the past four years. I would say two years ago, we signed MOU as Zimmum, which has been very fruitful and we've been able to work closely with that organisation to extend Chimes presence in the region, last years in Saudi for global health exhibition, fantastic experience and then we were in Dubai for the class global summit and then Arab Health, which is now called World Health Expert. And then of course, as we all know, just a few days after that finished hostilities broke out and the region closed down. I'd like to hear from both of you what happened next after that in terms of what you two work on in the region. The trajectory pre-conflict was brilliant and then it didn't just taper, it crashed because business confidence went and the challenge often is how confident businesses are is a function of politics, of war, of currencies and so on. And people don't often see that human side. They don't see the fact that the conversation might still continue but there's no at that moment possibility of moving the deal forward and that's what I saw immediately. As soon as that happened, you knew there'd be a delay but we didn't know how long that delay would be and the problem for me is that because we don't have certainty business confidence hasn't returned and that trajectory which we are flying high on is now a bit distant and it's almost like you have to start again. Sam? I was suddenly sad when the conflict broke out and I was on a flight from Dauha to Rihad as it was unraveling behind me. When you get there, you realise how much people care and that's something that's really important because despite the trajectory of transformation, digital health, change slowing down, what you get a sense of is how much the governments or the emirates of Saudi care about their population and that carries through into what they do. So the first focus at that point was to look after the population, keep people safe, keep things moving and these are not countries that have lots of debt, they're reliant on mixed economy, mainly oil, tourism, a few other things. So they're really reliant on trade taking place, they did everything possible to protect their trade as far as they could but at the same time keeping things going, keeping people safe and encouraging the continuation. Now this will sound very strange, what did the conflict do? It caused a reset, so during that time in the conflict and the reset everyone took a moment to take stock of what they're working on. So some projects slowed down, other ones sped up, the focus changed from what may have been building hospitals and buildings down to creating remote clinics and services. So conflict was sad but it definitely gave people an opportunity to refocus and reset. And how long did that go on for? So even as that today if you were to visit the region you're still going to have a sense of what's happening with the conflict in the background and a bit of refocus to give examples of that. Some of the mega projects across the region whether it's in Abu Dhabi or in Riyadh or Niyam or any of these places, you know to think very carefully that where do they want to focus their effort and that's a continuing ongoing process. And in a positive way we shouldn't really have any program in the world where you just sort of start off and carry on endlessly. So what governments there have done and have taken stock and really thought about do we carry on with all of these things, do we change our focus and where we put investment. And so with that you see things like whether it's the health system transformation that's taking place in Abu Dhabi, whether it's the transformation taking press across Saudi or even Qatar where they're splitting out the way in which their service is provided that's continued. Okay. But what about confidence? How's the confidence levels have fun? A bit before confidence is the human side. And so there's lots of people in the region whether they are expats or native who are now going through a very difficult time and they know that their friends are with them but they also know if it's not with them anymore. And it's the people who've stopped calling or the people who only call because they want to progress the deal. And actually that distinction has become more and more stark. If you only care about people when there's money on the table and you don't care about them when that's off the table, where you're really friends. And I think this region, the GCC, more than any other region on the planet, it favors the relationship before the business. It favors the character of the people doing business. And that's such an important thing that in the Arab culture they will honor the guest. They will give you a seat, they'll give you the drink and they'll give you a chance to reciprocate. And those who do not reciprocate, do you see what happens to them nothing continues. They're not rude to you but they just won't continue. So they start up front and then it's up to you to then show back the respect and the honor to the host. So they're big on character. And they are now seeing those people who have been in the region, who invested in the region, who cared about the region. Now the question really is about do they have confidence in you? Are you only there when it matters? And I think genuinely that's the thing that I really want to get across. If there was any time to be putting your money away about this or saying that I really care about the region and those people now is the time, not next year when things will be back to normal hopefully, it's now. And I know the conferences have all been smudged into quarter four and if this conflict continues they'll get smudged into the following calendar year. But the time for us to show support would be then, which is why even though I'm only going because of my friends, I'm going to do the same thing that you did last year. The clever thing of going to GHG and Reyard and staying a week and then doing Zidnam in Dubai. That one week is the week when everyone's going to be there. Yes. I have to do and I would encourage those who care about the region to consider the same. I think that's true actually. I've known for my own experience that turning up time and time again with an open mind and an open heart and just saying, please help me understand how we can work together where the benefits lie and being honest about what you have to bring to the table. So we did that work with Emirates Health Services and that was really, really good. And we're doing some further work with other entities. We have stayed there. We've tried to stay and albeit on an online capacity during the conflict. So what's your approach both of you to how you're working in the region now? Well, at the moment, whilst confidence may seem like it's gone down, at the same time it goes back to those relationships. If I think about what I'm working on, it's really focusing on now that we're coming out of that period and we've got to a new normal. What do we actually progress and how do we do those things? So there's some really important things taking place. There are new hospitals being built across the region and that's not going to stop because unlike many parts of the world, there's still big population that doesn't have access to those programs will continue. There's a massive focus on data and AI across the region. They want to be leaders. One thing they've shown is that they do have capacity to create data centres to create labs where they're producing AI to take the lead on creating medical devices to really take a further step around health tech and using virtual hospitals alongside things like creating platforms where they're aggregating patient data. So all these things have continued. And what's made it interesting is a recognition that these populations are unique, not just because of the indigenous population in the area but also all the expats in the area. So for pharma companies, this has become interesting. So for things I'm really focusing on right now is how do we create a policy environment that encourages the outside world to bring in foreign investment, to bring innovators from outside to work with local partners and it's those entities that recognise the nuance of working in the region. And when I mean the region, I don't even just mean Saudi, Emirates and Qatar which is what we often think about but also interesting places like Damascus area is being rebuilt. The region is putting investment in. QA is also thinking about its health system. So these emergent health systems as part of that ecosystem are super exciting and great about influence policy across the region, speak to colleagues, share learning, and one of the things that benefit from all of you, the people of time, and the many people who are at these conferences is really sharing that experience, how do you translate that from other places and what we've learned from it into the region. It's a good point, isn't it? What do you think, House M? Taking Sam's point, look at Egypt. Look at the transformation that they've done. It's fantastic. It's so fast. And it's the kind of thing that's very impressive. And what I've seen in that region genuinely is a growth of maturity of thinking, not just copying, not just taking an idea that we're going to understand it for ourselves and not allow others to come in almost colonial type and just say, "We know better than you take here." And the growth of that thinking is such that in the UAE, I asked the question once, naively, "Who do you look to?" And they looked at me quizzically and said, "We look to ourselves. We've got to the point now where our digital maturity is such that we know what we're doing." I would argue that Europe is ahead when it comes to open standards, you know, Catalonia, you know all the stories. And I would argue that there's a lot for us to learn cross-border. But for where the world has got to as a standard, the UAE has definitely got there. Saudi has the muscle. It's going to push very, very strongly towards those. We've always looked at the other GCC countries outside of the three mentioned Qatar, the Saudi as being slightly behind those. But they're making their moves. I was in Oman recently. I'm involved with a longevity resort in Salala. And they're talking about advanced biomarkers and they're thinking about how they do the convergence of wellness and longevity. So it's not just a UAE thing anymore to talk about longevity. They're really moving up. So I can see a rising tide across the region. I can see that they're thinking more about what to do. And let me give you credit. I spoke to Dr. Osama of Zimab about you and Chiam and what you've been doing and what came back was warmth and your consistency that you were honest brokers about what you were able to offer. And you made them feel like partners. And that's the right way to work in the region. And as the region's growing up in its maturity, it doesn't need to be talked down to and meet them where they are. So Chiam, as you know, is involved in professional training, education, certification. And that's where we have gone in with Zimab to say we can bring these international certifications. So I want to ask you what you think about the international perspective because I've found in other parts of the world, particularly like Australia, that the ability to look up and out and benchmark against an international cohort is really welcome. And I use Australia's example because they're quite isolated in terms of geography, but also in terms of where they are in their own digital maturity and enablement. What do you think about the potential for people working in the region to want to do that, to want to benchmark themselves against peers around the world? So this is something I have to deal with fairly frequently. And I think to recognise some cultural differences as well. So taking Australia, Canada, the UK and New Zealand, they're very similar. They operate in pretty much the same way and their histories are intertwined and their health systems are intertwined. So the standers and their hospitals are intertwined. The Gulf as a whole took on some of those things, but it's also adopted things from other parts of the world from certainly from places like the US, also from other places like Japan, they've inherited things. And so they've got a fairly unique system, which is a combination of what we see in the Commonwealth as well as those things we see outside. But they're now forging their own path and we have to recognise the cultural differences that exist on the ground in all parts of the Gulf. And it is very different from the north of Saudi to the south. It's quite different across the Emirates. And so with that comes the need to create some localised standards. So of course there's some benchmarking, there's some localisation that goes with it because there's a different way of accessing services. The expectations are different and even the way in which entities are paid is slightly different. So those things lean ourselves towards yes, using some international standards and benchmarks, but at the same time recognising some will exist for the region that are quite specific to the region. And this could be anything for the people being referred through to data. Data is a prime example. We don't really have the same concepts in Australia or Canada or the UK, but they've got the concept to super controllers now on the planet. The intent of doing that is to make the best use of their data to help create medicine, drugs, products that are suitable for the population that otherwise not have been created. So what I'm hearing is the international perspective is not as important. I think it's really important and it's important from a learning point of view, but a recognition that needs to be some localisation. All too often we've probably all experienced this. People go to the region and say, "I've done this in London or in Toronto or Sydney. We're going to copy and paste it into Riyadh. That is never going to work. So it's great to share what happened, but also the failures and recognise what happens locally. So it is applied, absolutely share, but think about what it means in that system, in that context." I think that's absolutely right. And what I've found is that some of the circumstances we predicate our training on don't exist there. So we have to be really aware of that and we are aware of that. And some of the assumptions we make about where people are starting off in their professional education journey don't apply as well. What do you think, Hassan? Allow me to use a World Cup analogy. Okay. So I'm trying to talk about that. There's so much pride in that region for what they do that they want to be able to say, "Look, look what we're doing." And the only we can really do that is with some standardisation internationally. So when it comes to trying someone who's gone through the CHCIO is able to say to someone in Minnesota, "Look, I'm the CHCIO. That's so much pride in the region when they can do that, whether they're using other standards from other bodies for their hospitals or as individuals. Many of these people who are leaders within the GCC have studied in the US or the UK or Germany. They are very familiar with what as individuals they are competing against and comparing themselves against. So while they enjoy talking to those people about those things, they also want to have themselves." So there's a real joy more than anywhere I've ever seen actually about these standards. Because in other places, sometimes you just a bit of a chore, "Oh, I must go through the standards and I must get my qualifications." I speak to friends of mine in Qatar, for example, that, "Yeah, I'm going to get my chime." They're excited. It's a big deal. Yes, thank you. I think it is too, but I am also acutely aware that we need to make sure it's very suitable for the region and that localisation element of it is something that we're thinking about really introducing and bringing in as a major part of those certifications. So what else is to look forward to now? Data is a huge, huge conversation. So, EHDS, the European half-dataspace is a big conversation and how other regions interpret what's going to happen next is going to be massive. And I know Sam's had major influence in his own thinking about what happens. What I'm seeing is a couple of things. The first is that data for second reuse so that you can commercialise is actually becoming more interesting because of the lack of business confidence right now. Because if you can see that there's a lack of work taking place and foreign direct investment into the region, because of the conflict, you're thinking, "Well, how could we have been making money?" And obviously, the mind has moved to certain areas and the availability of data that you can then appropriately use for research with industry becomes interesting. And for many years, pharma companies have ignored certain regions because they've looked at the US and the EU. 4+1, I think, is what they call it. And there is a conversation there. The conversation about data being longitudinal. So how do we paint a picture where you don't have silos of data that you're able to have a continuum? Multimodal data? So you're not just looking at EHR data or notes where you've got an LP. What you're thinking is digitised imaging, digitised pathology, molecular genetic profiling. Can you make a multimodal story? And those are the things that are happening all over the world where we're thinking, "How do we get there?" And I'd love to see what the GCC starts to come up with for its version of that because it will. And it's got huge genetic variability in the region so it will be of interest to researchers. And I think because they're in some ways not got the legacy of other countries and other regions because they're able to rebuild what they do in the way that other countries cannot. So I think data is going to be really interesting in the next five to ten years. Very good. Thank you. Sam. There's loads going on in the region, everything from the change in hospitality and medical tourism through to the creation of many, many wellness and longevity results as you heard earlier. But a big focus really is around creating new farmer products locally, Ned Tech has been developed locally and most recently this real surgence around AI. And that seems to be a focus for Saudi and the Emirates in particular. And of course, Qatar and the three of them in a race has to who can build the most AI tools possible to try and make their systems more efficient, to bring down cost. And they are recognising the fact that health systems are expensive, so can they use technology to bring that cost down, whether it's directly patient-facing technology, clinician-facing technology or technology to mind data, to identify new indications for existing drugs and medicines. And so those are the sorts of things that are happening. The interesting thing at the moment is the movement around who owns the data. So we in the West perhaps have a very strong view as to the patient owns the data. And that's still quite true across the Gulf, of course most of the GCC except they've got a concept of super control emerging and this is now beginning to converge across this area so the government is effectively stepping in. There's a mechanism through which that data can be curated, used in a safe way and so people can come in and work with them. It's fantastic. But other nuances, AI scribes, we see them everywhere. They're coming to the region but the recognition is also that that language, even down to Arabic, is different across every little geography across the region and shift but do go there and there are pretty things that work for the. Allow me to add something. When I think about technology, I think about the home market that they're in and when those home markets start to become weaker, you'll find a jump off of lots of innovators from those home markets trying to find others. Sadly, what's happening in parts of Europe, Western Europe, you came particular that you've got lots of innovators trying to find secondary markets. Weirdly, they don't go to the country next to them. You don't find UK companies thinking they're a Republic of Ireland. They often don't think Portugal, they don't go that way. They think, "Oh great, I'm going to go to Canada." Correct. Because they think there's cultural similarity and that's where they're going to go. But there's been an affinity for UK innovators for the GCC for many years. That's why you get a large presence at what we used to be done as Arab Health and now, in the former, I've told me that it's a whole week now because they've smudged what was WSX Tech into the end of that. Last week in January, so lots of people are going to be there trying to make their deals. What always goes wrong for these companies is they think they can go to a show and strike a deal with the first handshake. They don't realise that's not how it works in the GCC. In fact, actually, friends of my GCC laugh, "Oh look, there'll be people coming along thinking they can make a deal with me here while I'm stuck on the stand to doing the MLU." You're supposed to go there early, meet them in relaxed environments, know them for a while, be the cadence of events. But I can see now technology not being adopted by home markets because there's no money in those markets for all of those innovators. Look at Northern Ireland. The amount of technology in Northern Ireland, the great innovators, wonderful, but can the market bear all of them adopt all of them? Unlikely. Same for Scotland. So many great innovators, they're going to have handshake in their markets. I think the GCC will benefit from two things. External innovation coming in, trying to find a home, and the growth of more IP, hunger on IP, where they're developing so many new things, and the AI revolution that's taken place that's been powered by real ambition. The GCC's ambition for AI is stunning, really is. And that sort of takes us on to how can people outside help? And part of it is share the methodology, not necessarily the technology, because people they're willing to learn, as you know, from the work of giant people, really hungry for education, for knowledge, for skills. So take the skills, take the knowledge to that environment and help people work out. One, how do they create new intellectual property? How do they create new technology? How do they also then commercialise that? And how do they have an innovation pathway? And those things are things they're hungry for locally, and if people can bring the ideas, the learning, the methodology, they'll often absorb that and try and adopt it locally. Let me tell you a gap though. The best people in the world, for what I'm about to say, are in the US. It's turning an idea or an asset or some IP, not just into a product, but into an enterprise. The entrepreneurial spirit, the risk culture, the productisation, the Americans are number one. And I look at technology growth all over the world, and I see that they're behind off on and turning it into a product the way that you sell it. And you're going to start to see that the GCC is going to become stronger and stronger, because the entrepreneurial culture is there. Maybe the risk capital is not quite the same, but as those things develop, you're going to see them becoming a real force. I think so. So thank you so much for sharing what you've told me today. It's been fascinating to hear this. And at such a pivotal point in the year for the region, hopefully this East Vial hold, and the last six months of turbulence we've put behind the region. So give me your predictions for the second half of this year now in the region. Second half of this year in the region, I think we're going to see an increase in investment in some of the local projects that are taking place, especially in Riyadh, Dubai, Abu Dhabi and Daha, mainly focused around data and AI across all of those areas, because that's a race that they're in. And I think there'll be more investment, especially around MedTech products that people want to produce, create and use within their own systems. I think there will also be a focus on moving away from health to moving towards wellbeing. And we're seeing that across all of those areas. So I think the next six months will be really accelerating those things. And agree with Sam. I would say that the region, if the ceasefire holds and everything gets okay, you're going to see the resurgence happening in quarter four. You're going to see more activity. But either way, you're going to start to see the region saying we want help to create IP. So there's going to be more conversations and MedTech's a great example where venture building and IP and tech transfer will become stronger and stronger and stronger. As we mentioned already, Saudi, UAE and Qatar are ahead and they're going to fly. But there's some dark forces behind them. And those are going to start to become very, very impressive. We mentioned Egypt. I definitely can see parts of the region becoming stronger. And as that happens, you'll start to see more US and UK and Western Europe innovators trying to get into that market. And that's going to become the center of gravity is going to move further east. Okay. Interesting. I've already been seeing that. We're seeing innovators and those people producing technology, whether it's the US, Canada, Australia, UK, lining up ready to deal with local partners in the region to undertake validation trials. So they may have products that are already validated elsewhere, but they want to come into the region and they need local accreditation. And for that, they're lining up, getting those things ready. So I think in the next six months, we'll start to see some of those projects come on live. And I've already seen a number of trials that are lined up ready for our hospitals to start working on. So I suspect they'll come on by the end of the year and then we'll see those products come to market next year. Wonderful. Well, thank you so much for the chat. It's been fascinating and also makes me very happy to think that we are going to be able to get back over there before too long and aiming our sights at Global Health Exhibition in Saudi and then onto Zimamm in Dubai. And forgive me, the night before Global Health Exhibition in Riyadh is a pre event by Zimamm. Yes. And that event, I am going to try and take a delegation of innovators to so that we can go meet those leaders, stay for a week in the region and end in Dubai with Zimamm. And so if people are interested in taking care of that, this isn't about money, this is about me taking people who want to show their friendship and their goodwill, I'll be going happy to take anyone. Wonderful. Thank you for the offer. My thanks to my guests for sharing their expertise and perspectives. Although events in the region have changed since this interview was recorded, the themes have explored of leadership, collaboration and improving healthcare through digital innovation remain timeless. At CHIME, we continue to believe that professional relationships built on trust, shared learning and mutual respect are more important than ever, especially during periods of uncertainty. Thank you so much for listening to the CHIME Global Leaders podcast. I look forward to welcoming you to another conversation very soon.