441: His Own Family Came to His Door With Knives | The Murder of Paul Scott

andy and anna here from your new favorite podcast no such thing as a fish yes we are two of the four hosts of the podcast that stuffs fascinating amazing weird mad facts into your ears on a weekly basis you got any good facts andy yes how about this one anteaters have evolved on 12 separate occasions wow mysterious wonderful the world really wants them to exist what about this one when ronald reagan left office he left a note on the white house lawn for the squirrels warning them to beware of george bush's dogs so there you go if you like fascinating facts and much more besides we are no such thing as a fish absolutely not why is he doing that there's nothing else you can do for me it's full of blood i don't know what you want me to do anymore there's nothing you can do for him he's dead i'm going to ask you are you responsible for the stabbing and murder of paul scott hey true crime besties welcome back to an all-new episode of serialously hello hello hello and welcome back to an all-new episode now at first i wasn't going to cover today's case but because i was kind of like okay do i want to talk about it do i want to share it but the more that i learned about it the more i felt like this is pretty unhinged i feel like i have to talk about it because it has to do with a mother and children killing together and i don't know just like i don't know i don't know what to do with it i don't know what to do with it i don't like filming things and just so diabolical in every single way but there's not enough information out there that i was like there's no way i can make this like a full bore episode but you know what i can do i can definitely make it a bonus episode so here we are hello we are going to do a bonus episode today because i do have to talk to you about this case i also have to apologize because it's probably going to mess you up mentally it did for me it took me like days after researching it to figure out what to do with it and i'm like i don't know what to do with it kind of recalibrate and recover myself especially as a parent but i think that it is one worth sharing so it takes us back to pretty recently okay 2025 not very long ago and on the night of june 21st 2025 a phone call came in to 999 which that's the uk's version of 911 okay so the caller was saying that a man had been stabbed and this phone call came in right around three in the hours and the caller sounded like a young woman however she wasn't able to give very much helpful information she told the operator that her name was emily that she didn't know the address where this man had been stabbed but that he had been in fact she said she didn't even know how to give them directions to the house the only information that she was able to give 999 was quote we just walked into the house and he's dead he's on the floor blood all over now as i'm sure most of you are familiar the 999 operator is a man who was stabbed by a man who was stabbed by a man who was can technically pull your address. The only issue, it's not instant. There are multiple steps involved, starting with seeing what cell tower your phone is calling from, where it's pinging from, then using GPS to get exact coordinates. So the operator was on top of it, hoping to get a better idea of where this call was coming from, but it was going to take a few minutes. It was going to take some time. And around two and a half minutes into this phone call, Emily then finally gave the operator an address. 21, Peridot Close. So the first responders were now well on their way. But in the meantime, the operator was instructing this caller, Emily, on things that she could do to potentially help while she was waiting for first responders to arrive. So the operator asked Emily if she could attempt CPR. Emily said she didn't know how, which is understandable. Nobody calling 999 is expected to know exactly what to do in a situation like this. That's why the operator was on top of it. So the operator was on top of it. is there to walk you through it. And not everybody knows how to just do CPR. But when the operator started to give Emily instructions, she said, no, she wasn't going to do it because she was going to get sick if she tried saying, no, no, no, no, I can't do this. It's going to make me sick. I can't do it. Like find someone else. Like it's not me. Now I'm guessing that the reason she was saying that is from the blood, which I get that as well. Like I understand that if somebody has a lot of you don't think you can have the will to be strong enough to overcome that. I understand it. But that wasn't all that Emily said. At one point, she told the operator, quote, listen, he's dead. There's nothing else we can do, which that feels pretty cold hearted, doesn't it? Now, as jarring as that was to hear, the operators are all trained for these kinds of situations, right? Sometimes people are in denial. Maybe they're in a state of shock, thinking that the outcome is going to be one way or another, which that was why it was so incredibly important that at least Emily tried to do CPR. But Emily just kept saying things like he's dead. He's not breathing. I said, absolutely not. Eventually, the operator was also able to find out that there was a defibrillator at a park nearby. So if Emily couldn't perform CPR on her own, whatever her reasons may have been, maybe she needed help while they waited for the first responders. However, Emily's response to that suggestion, she didn't know where the park was that the operator was describing. She didn't know how she would get there or how she would find her way back. So she didn't go. She didn't even try. The call then ended when the first responders took over the phone, announcing that they had finally arrived at the scene. And unfortunately, Emily had been right about one thing. This man was dead. He was pronounced dead at the scene. And the man was 37-year-old Paul Scott. Now, when it comes to Paul, I didn't see a single negative thing about him in any of my research. Paul's sister described him as the kindest soul that she had ever known. Paul's father said that he was someone who valued family and also valued those in his life that he was closest with. He liked to go out. He liked to have a good time on occasion. But all in all, he was definitely more of a homebody. He didn't have a huge group of friends either because he was at that age where at 37, he preferred quality over quantity. So he had a select group of friends, not anything massive or huge. Paul's dad said that on the nights that he would go out, Paul would call him late at night just to tell him that he loved him and that he was thinking about him. And that was one of the biggest takeaways that I got from doing my research on this case. Paul was a guy who was extremely close with his family. He was always telling everyone how much he loved them and how much they meant to him. His family also said that he was a very big hugger. I mean, if Paul was coming over, they knew they were going to be showered with love. He was always saying that he was going to be showered with love. Now, despite being in his late 30s, Paul hadn't settled down yet. He hadn't found the person that he wanted to spend the rest of his life with, but he was okay with that. He still dreamed about eventually falling in love and starting a family of his own, but he was okay that it hadn't happened by this point. However, now, as we know, that was no longer an option for Paul. He had been brutally murdered, stabbed to death at his own home, no less. And his death had been nothing short of brutal. Paul's autopsy would later reveal just how brutal his final moments had been. The report showed he had likely been stabbed with a kitchen knife with a 20-centimeter blade. And while Paul had only been stabbed once, that one wound, it had done immense damage. The wound was to the left center of his chest, and it went through his skin, the tissue, the muscle of his chest wall, the other muscle between his fourth and fifth rib, and then ultimately through his heart. Which, that is deep, that is penetrating so many hard forces, which would take an incredible amount of pressure and an incredible amount of force. The actual depth of the wound was around 8.6 centimeters, though five of those centimeters were in his heart alone. So, that being said, it certainly makes sense why he was already deceased when first responders got there. He truly never even had a chance at survival. So, there is no denying the brutality of Paul's death. The question was, who had done this to him? In his own home? Was this some sort of break-in or robbery that had ended in his death? What happened here? Well, here's the thing. Right away, investigators were able to see that this was no random break-in. Starting with the fact that there were no signs of forced entry. None at all. Nowhere in the house. And on top of that, nothing was messed up, nothing was missing, nothing appeared to have been ransacked. It didn't look like it was a burglary gone wrong. Other than Paul's body, and the blood that had come from it, the most important detail to note was that there was no missing kitchen knives either in Paul's kitchen. Meaning that whoever used this 10-centimeter kitchen knife, they had come in and they had stabbed Paul, bringing the murder weapon with them, not using a kitchen knife from the block. So, the investigators hoped that maybe by talking with this woman, Emily, who had called 911, that maybe they could get some kind of helpful information. The woman informed them again. Her name was Emily, and she was the one who told them that she was a good friend of Paul's, but specified that she wasn't familiar with the area that he lived in. in. Apparently, she had never actually even been to his house until that night. She said that the only reason that she actually was even there that night is because she claimed that she hadn't heard from him in a few days. So she started to worry after the text messages and phone calls to his phone were going unanswered. Here's the thing, though. Emily wasn't alone. With her was a man named Callum and also another woman named Joanne. Now, apparently, they had just been along for the ride. Emily was the one who was concerned about Paul, the only one concerned about him, but they were with her just to go and check things out. Emily told the officers that Paul's front door had been unlocked, so because of that, they all let themselves in. And then when they did, that's when they saw him, lying on the ground, unresponsive, and covered in blood. So when Emily had backed out of doing CPR, I guess Callum had stepped in and he tried giving it a try, which that's why his hands ended up being covered in Paul's blood by the time first responders arrived. But Emily didn't. But just like Emily had said on the phone call, it was no use. She knew that Paul was gone when they arrived, that there was no saving him. He was beyond saving. Now, they didn't see whoever had come into Paul's house and stabbed him, though. Meaning, whoever the killer was, they were likely long gone by the time Emily and her friends discovered the body. So these witnesses, if you want to call them that, they really weren't super helpful. I mean, they provided some minor details, yes, but the investigators were still just as clueless as they had been when they first arrived. Except the thing was, there were quite a few red flags about these witnesses that stood out to investigators. Things that just didn't really seem to add up or make a whole lot of sense. Starting with the fact that Emily said that Paul had essentially been MIA for days. Now, we've done cases before where somebody is concerned about a friend. Maybe they do a welfare check. They show up themselves. They realize that this case was different. Yes, Paul had been dead when first responders arrived, but from what they could tell, his death had been very recent. This wasn't a man who had been dead for days on the floor. I mean, the blood that was both on him and near his body, it wasn't even fully dried yet. So, was it just a coincidence that Paul allegedly hadn't been seen or talked to by anyone in a few days for, you know, whatever unknown reason, only to then be brutally murdered right before someone came to check on him? Could be, but it was a little bit odd. Then there was also the fact that Emily had initially made it very clear to the operator that she didn't know the address. Yeah, she gave it to them eventually, but the point is, she claimed that she didn't know what it was. She had no idea. So, my first thought when hearing that and doing my research was, well, then how did you even end up there in the first place? If you don't know the address, how'd you even get there? So, there were just a lot of small things like this that really started to rub the investigators the wrong way. But then something major happened, something that would change the way that the investigators looked at Paul's murder. Because while they were still there reviewing the crime scene and talking to these three people who found Paul, they learned something that was even more suspicious. See, Emily wasn't really Emily at all. Her real name was Amy Clegg. And Callum, the guy who apparently had tried administering CPR, well, that was actually Amy 's brother. And his name wasn't Callum. It was Liam Donlin. The third person, Joanne, who had kind of stayed in the background, not really saying much other than backing up everything that these two people were saying, that was Joanne Maxwell. And she was actually Amy and Liam's mother. So, I'm assuming that they all had different last names because Amy and Liam had different dads and maybe had taken their last names. But regardless, they were a mother, son, and daughter not duo, trio, I guess you would say. Yeah, a mother, son, daughter, trio. Now, sources in this case didn't say exactly how the authorities found out that Amy and Liam were lying about their identity. Though, since they were being interviewed as witnesses, I would guess that maybe the police wanted to see their IDs. They found out the names that they had given were fake. Then they started asking about the familial connection and they started uncovering all of the lies. But regardless of how the police found out, it's important to note that the investigators found this out while they were still at the scene. And this was one of those moments where they had to make a very quick and risky decision. Do they take Amy, Liam, and Joanne into custody? I mean, lying isn't murder, but it is technically hindering a homicide investigation. Not to mention, Paul's blood was quite literally on Liam's hands, though he claimed it was from his CPR efforts. But could they even be sure about that? So, ultimately, the investigators decided to take them into custody. It was the smartest option, since there were no huge signs of an alternative crime, like a random break-in. So now, all three people had been taken into custody that night. But they all maintained that they had done nothing wrong. And they especially said they didn't kill Paul. But the red flags against them? They continued to mount up. Similar to how investigators discovered that they were lying about their identities, it turned out they were also lying about how they knew Paul. Remember Amy said that she was really good friends with Paul, that she was concerned when he wasn't responding to phone calls or text messages? Well, she insinuated that Liam and Joanne weren't friends, right? That they had just gone along with her as good friends of hers, going along for the ride to check on him. But the truth was, they all knew Paul. And they knew him very well. Why, you might be asking? Well, because they were all related. Now, not many sources say how they were related. Some sources say that he was a distant relative. Some say that he was a cousin to one of them. But whatever the relation is, they were related. So either way, that story about Amy being a concerned friend, that was complete bullshit. And that's not really something that you get confused about, or that you accidentally say the wrong thing. I mean, I know that when I'm talking about my cousins, even if we are distant or rarely see each other, which I happen to be very close with all of my cousins, but I refer to them as my cousins, not my friends. Even my distant cousins, now that I say they are my cousins, I don't say, oh, my friends in France. Like, even if you're not going to use the word cousins, you would say my relatives in France. Like, it just makes no fucking sense. So the following morning, after the news had circulated about Paul's gruesome death and the fact that these three people were now being investigated, information came flooding into the police department, mainly from people who were closest to Paul and people who even knew these three suspects. So it turns out that just because they were family, it didn't mean that they had the best relationship. Which, to be more specific, their relationship had fizzled out pretty significantly in the past year. And it had all started back in September of 2024 at Amy's 21st birthday. Andy and Anna here from your new favorite podcast, No Such Thing As A Fish. Yes, we are two of the four hosts of the podcast that stuffs fascinating, amazing, weird, mad facts into your ears on a weekly basis. You got any good facts, Andy? Yes. How about this one? Anteaters have evolved on 12 separate occasions. Wow. Mysterious. Wonderful. The world really wants them to exist. What about this one? When Ronald Reagan left office, he left a note on the White House lawn for the squirrels, warning them to beware of George Bush's dogs. So there you go. If you like fascinating facts and much more besides, we are No Such Thing As A Fish. The party was at a woman named Victoria Clegg's house. Victoria was, Amy's aunt and Paul's cousin. So it was a pretty big party full of families, friends, everybody getting together. And stay with me during this next part because there are a lot of names and there are a lot of relations that are intertwined. But at the time, Amy was dating this guy named Charlie Elliott. And I'm not sure how old Charlie was, though I do know that he and Paul were pretty good friends. So as we know, Paul was 37. And because Charlie and Amy were dating, Charlie was at Amy's party. But for whatever, reason, Charlie and Joanne, which again is Amy's mom, they didn't really get along. Apparently, there was always a lot of tension there. Although for the sake of the party, I guess everybody had put it aside. Nobody wanted to ruin Amy's birthday, no less her 21st birthday. So they all kind of just, you know, made peace with one another. Eventually, the night started winding down and Amy was exhausted. So she went to bed upstairs, not really caring that some people were still downstairs drinking and keeping the party going. Tapping out, she was going to bed. But then, not long after that, Amy was woken up by shouting. When she went downstairs, she saw that there was a physical altercation. Charlie, her boyfriend, and her mom's boyfriend were on the ground fighting each other. Joanne was on top of Charlie, trying to get him off. And Paul was involved too, trying to grab the men and pull them apart. Eventually, the fight broke up and Amy told Charlie and Paul that they needed to leave. They needed to get the hell out of the house. Some sort of, I don't know, drunken altercation. And that after that, everybody would just move on and put it all behind them, right? Well, no. Multiple people within Amy, Liam, and Joanne's family started receiving threats after that night. Even people who had nothing to do with the actual fight. Like Victoria, Amy's aunt, who allowed her to throw the party at her house. Also, Victoria's daughter, Ellie. And it's not like these threats were anonymous notes that were left on doors or anonymous text messages. It's not like these threats were anonymous notes that were left on or things like that, these were phone calls made directly by Amy and her mom, Joanne. Charlie also started receiving threatening phone calls and texts, which as you can probably guess at this point, his and Amy's relationship, that was over with. But guess who else was getting threatened in all of this? Paul. You see, Paul and Ellie were extremely close, so she was able to give investigators a pretty clear picture of what he had been dealing with. And as it turns out, the threats that Paul was receiving were very similar to the ones that Victoria and Ellie had been getting, these phone calls from Joanne and Amy. So just to go back to the family tree for a moment, you have Amy, Liam, and Joanne, the mom and her kids. Then you have Amy's aunt, Victoria, and Amy's cousin, Ellie. Then you have Paul, also the cousin. Then you have Charlie, the friend, possibly friends with the cousin. So there's the fight. And then Amy and her mom. are literally threatening Amy's aunt and cousin, which I can't remember entirely if the aunt was Joanne's sister or sister by marriage. I don't know. But within the family, okay? Now in these phone calls, they were threatening to kill Paul. And apparently it went on for months. According to Ellie, Paul took the threats very seriously too. Joanne and Amy had apparently told him that the only reason that he was even safe for the time being was because Liam was in jail. And that once he got out, he was going to be the one to do their dirty work. Now I know what you're probably thinking, because I thought it too. Paul wasn't even part of this fight really. So why were they going after him so hard? Also, if she broke up with Charlie, like, you know, what do you care about the fight anyway? Well, apparently they felt like family loyalty had been betrayed and that Paul chose his friend Charlie over them. They felt like Paul should have protected Joanne more in that instance. So I can't say exactly what went down in this argument, this physical fight, or any of it. But every single source on this case says that Paul was the one trying to break up the fight, not antagonize it. And I don't know about you, but I would consider that somebody trying to protect me. If I was getting the shit kicked out of me, or if I was in a fight and somebody was trying to break it up, I would say that they are indirectly trying to help me. Not jumping the person, I guess, who's fighting me, but like trying to stop the fight so that like I'm not getting the shit kicked out of me anymore, right? So based on what we know, I don't necessarily think that Paul was in the wrong here. But again, I wasn't there, so it's hard to say for sure. So Ellie went on to tell the investigators, quote, He told me he was scared. He told me that he was getting threats as well, because he was in the house and he didn't protect Joanne or whatever. He told me that they were telling him that Liam was getting out soon. He came to my house quite a lot. I remember a time he sat on the sofa and said to me, they're going to get me. You wait. They're going to get me. And I was just saying, Paul, don't be scared. I'm not going to let you get out of my house. So needless to say, when Ellie and everybody else heard that Paul had been stabbed and that Amy, Liam, and Joanne had been at the scene, they knew who was responsible here. But obviously, the authorities couldn't just take everyone's word for it. They needed tangible evidence. And luckily, that wasn't too hard to find. Which let's start with the night leading up to Paul's murder. Liam had been released from prison that very day. It's not clear what he was in for, though. But what better way to celebrate your newfound freedom than to go out there and drinking and hit some local pubs. Joanne and Amy were also out drinking that night, too. And apparently, they ran into some of the people who were involved in that 2024 altercation. So just like that, all of that old tension came right back to the surface. And it's not exactly clear who they ran into. I'm not sure if it was Amy's ex, Charlie, or their relatives, Victoria and Ellie, or what. All we know is that it reminded them that they had a score to settle. And they had threats that they needed to live up to. And even better, Liam was now out and free. So surveillance footage showed Joanne and Amy together at the pub. Later, on different surveillance footage, it showed Joanne, Amy, and Liam all meeting up together. And that's when the investigators believe their plan really started to take shape, if you can even call it a plan. Texts on Liam's phone pretty much confirmed this theory, though. After meeting up, Liam started texting people asking for Paul's address. Even more shocking, though, all of a sudden, they were all together. And they were all of these text messages plainly showed the intention that the three of them had when going to Paul's house that night. Because in one text to a friend, Liam said, I'm going to stab him to death, G. So I mean, like, there was no secret here. Now, after Joanne, Amy, and Liam were all seen on camera chatting, they were also seen on camera getting a taxi back to the house where they lived. So that's where investigators are confident that they not only got the murder weapon, but other weapons that they were potentially going to use. Now, the reason for this is because in their home, there was a branded knife block, and there were spaces for five knives. Yet when the investigators would later go to investigate, four out of the five knives were gone. The only one that was left behind was a serrated bread knife. The three of them were then seen coming back outside. And I only mention it because these three freaking complete idiots may not have been very smart in literally every other aspect of this case, but they were at least smart enough. to conceal their weapons when they stepped outside and were in clear view of cameras. The official document says, quote, And the car that they're referring to is Joanne's. However, Liam was heard on CCTV footage from outside saying to Amy, quote, will wrap them in your purse. So it's likely that the knives were all in Amy's purse. So smart enough to hide weapons from sight, not smart enough to not talk about them. Then we get to what is perhaps the most damning evidence against them. The dash cam footage from Joanne's car. Apparently, Liam texting different people that he was going to kill Paul wasn't enough. He also had to send them voice messages. So there was literally audio evidence of Liam saying in different messages, listen, Aaron, I'm just going to go. I'm going to go fucking chop this kid up, bro. And I'm going to go kill him. And I'm going to go and then I'm going to come and grab you. And bro, I'm going to fucking absolutely chop this kid up now. And this is important because it shows that they were going over to Paul's house with clear intent to kill him. This wasn't some sort of situation where all three of them were supposedly going over there just to talk while Liam secretly had different intentions. They all knew what Liam's plans were. They were all talking out loud. They were holding weapons with one another. It was all happening. Joanne, Amy, Liam. So they knew what was being planned and they knew that Paul was going to die that night. And they didn't care because they were all in on it. So it took around 21 minutes for them to get to Paul's house where Joanne's car is then seen parking down the street before all three of them get out, walk up on foot to Paul's front door. And then CCTV footage actually even captures them on Paul's front porch. Amy is seen in front and Joanne and Liam are standing behind her. And as if all this was evidence that we've heard so far wasn't enough, as they got to Paul's front door, Liam pulled out his phone and this idiot started recording. In the video, Amy is knocking on Paul's door asking if he'll come outside and talk. And investigators believe that it was intentional that Amy was the one to talk to him because at this point, she still was only 22 years old. And for most what of what we can gather, she was his younger cousin. So even though he was scared by the threats that he had received, he may have let his friends know that he was the one to talk to him. And so he was let his guard down for Amy. He probably wasn't aware that Liam had even gotten out of prison yet since it just had happened literally that day. Now parts of this video are actually public and I will show you those here shortly. But the public video does get cut off abruptly because as soon as Paul unlocks his door and opens it for Amy, Liam rushes past her, pushes the door all the way open and pushes Paul further back into his home. Then he delivers the one fatal blow, which obviously that part of the video is not public because it shows Paul's murder on camera. However, in that short clip that was released, you can see the knife that Liam is holding in his right hand. It's just behind his back. So Paul can't even see it when he opens the door. Now why they called 999 after the stabbing of Paul, I'm not entirely sure. I'm not sure if they even know why they called. And I think it's safe to say that just because they made that call, it certainly does not make them angels by any means. They may have been doing it to try to create their alibi, to try to act like they wanted to save him. I mean, who really knows? But before making that call, Amy went and hid the knife that she had in her possession in Joanne's car. So we're not dealing with master criminals here, but they do think that they're doing everything right. Then, as we know, on the call, Amy was uncooperative, which in my opinion, she was just trying to buy time for Paul to die before the first responders could get there. And there is one more thing I want to mention about what happened after Paul was stabbed. Remember when the first responders arrived and Liam had all of that blood on his hands? He claimed it was because he tried to do CPR. Well, no surprise here, but investigators later concluded that he did not ever try to perform CPR. There was no remorse and no attempt to help Paul. The official court documents noted, a large volume of blood to be transferred or deposited upon the person performing it. both on their top and their shorts. You had very little blood on your clothing. Your account that you did CPR whilst standing over Paul Scott is inherently improbable, and I am sure that you did not do so. No one's arms would be long enough to do CPR standing over a victim, and had you performed CPR however badly, you would have been kneeling down close to the victim and far more blood would have been transferred onto your clothing. Your bloodied hands were no more than a part of a charade carried out by you in the immediate aftermath of the murder. So after Paul was stabbed, before first responders arrived, and while Amy was still on the phone with 999, Liam was also seen on camera outside of Paul's house, seemingly calm as ever, just drinking from a can. He never even cared that Paul was either dying or already dead, which, that's my opinion of course, but I think that that is pretty freaking evident given what happened and his actions after the fact. So after all of this evidence was compiled, Joanne, Liam, and Amy were all charged with Paul's murder. And the controversy in this case, it lies in the intention behind Joanne, Amy, and Liam as individuals. They all brought knives. They all willingly went to Paul's house. However, Joanne and Amy claimed that they didn't know that Liam was actually going to kill Paul. They thought that it was going to be more of an intimidation tactic. That's what their defense teams argued, at least. And they said that based on the video of the murder that I had mentioned earlier, that after Liam stabbed Paul, both Amy and Joanne were heard in the background of the video sounding almost confused or shocked. Joanne was heard saying, what have you done? Why has he done that? He just killed him. Which, is that enough to prove that they didn't know that Liam was going to kill Paul? I mean, I don't think so, but you may feel differently. I think if Joanne and Amy were actually shocked by what happened, then they would have been truthful. With the 999 operator. So, truthful so that they could get Paul help right away, maybe even give him a chance at survival, perform CPR. But they knew that if Paul survived, they'd get caught. He could tell the police exactly what happened and exactly who was involved. Although, based on the trail of evidence that they left behind, they really didn't even have much of a chance of getting away with it to begin with. Liam initially pleaded guilty to manslaughter and possession of a bladed article. However, he pleaded not guilty to manslaughter and possession of a bladed article. Joanne and Amy both pleaded not guilty to murder. Their trial lasted 13 days and all three of them were found guilty of murder. In addition, Joanne and Amy were found guilty of possession of a bladed article. Joanne was given a 23-year minimum prison term, Liam a 26-year minimum, and Amy a 20-year minimum. Which I think that the most jarring part about Paul's case is how senseless all of it was, right? At a birthday party. An argument that he wasn't even a part of. One that he was trying to split up. And then it ended in his murder months later. And now, Paul's family and friends have to mourn someone that they loved deeply. Someone who will never experience the life that he so badly wanted and dreamed for himself. Why? Because these three lunatics had this, like, thick-as-thieves mentality and thought he was a traitor of some sort? I just don't get it. It's so senseless. So like I said, at first I wasn't sure if I was going to cover this case because there isn't a ton of information. We don't know a lot of the backstory aside from that fight. There isn't a lot of publicly available information, but I still thought it was important to come on here and share Paul's story. And as sad as it is, I guess it kind of makes you even think, like, can you even trust your own family? I don't know. So thank you for tuning in to this bonus episode. I will be back with you, as you know, Monday with an all-new Deep Dive into a case. But until then, stay with me. Be nice. Don't kill people. All right. Bye. Yes, we are two of the four hosts of the podcast that's stuffed fascinating, amazing, weird, mad facts into your ears on a weekly basis. Yes. How about this one? Wow. Mysterious. Wonderful. What about this one? So there you go. If you like fascinating facts and much more besides, we are no such thing as a fish.