High-Intermediates (3.5) - 10 Essential Shots with Coach Jeff

Hi everybody, I'm Paddy Hunter Murphy and this is the Senior Pickable Tips Podcast where we discuss everything pickable as it relates to our CD's. Hi everyone, in this podcast we are looking at high intermediates. These are people level around about 3.5 rating. I have with me Jeff Gems, coach Jeff from Newcastle, Pennsylvania. Jeff, how are you doing? Doing great, Paddy. Great to see you guys. Okay, fantastic. Let's go straight into it. High intermediates. I think I'm around about a high intermediate. I like to think I am anyway. So you're talking at me at my level now. So let's look at the serve. What should high intermediates be looking at? What kind of levels should they be serving at? What kinds of serves should they be doing Jeff? Okay, so we're looking at now that we're getting into 3.5. We're looking more at a lot of pace and a lot of alternate spins. So we're trying to confuse our opponent. We don't want to have the same look on every shot. We don't even want to have the same place. I advocate for people to move around in the service area. We have 10 foot back there on the service area and I advocate for them to move around to figure out where their particular spot is, their favorite spot is where they can serve it from. We have to keep our forehands in mind and we don't want to have a hard return to our backhand. But by the same token, I have a lot of 3.5 students who really like to serve in my opinion out of the box thinking, but they're very good at doing that. So we start getting into more individual serves, more individual looks on serves. We're getting into more and more strategies. So pace and combined with alternate spins is what we're looking for in 3.5 and most importantly consistency. Yep. And what about that word that keeps on coming up a lot of depth? Oh, of course. So depth can occur two different ways. So when we're talking about adding speed to the ball, that's another way to get depth. I do want them to get a loopy serve. I advocate a topspin serve where most of the serves, a topspin serve will allow you to hit a little higher. It will dive and then it will move towards your opponent quicker. So what we're trying to achieve is a serve that allows our server to get something that throws the opponent off so that the return of serve is weaker. And I think that's the thing that a lot of people miss. You don't have to have an ace to be a successful server. What you have to do is make the opponent off balance so that they hit a short serve so that you and your partner as servers can get up to the line and take away and nullify their advantage. I think those are such wise words. Absolutely right. You know, you're not looking to ace it. You're just looking to get a return that isn't perfect so that then you can let it bounce and attack it. So absolutely wise words. I generated a serve once. I was just sort of mucking about in the leisure centre here in the UK. I hit a high topspin serve, a high deep topspin serve. And I found that players were rattled by this, did use it in competition and it worked very well until they got used to it. And then you have to change. But you still get four or five points from it in a game until they get used to it. So if there's a particular serve, I suppose that as a high intermediate, you want to give it a go. And if it's working, just sort of keep with it until people get used to it. Is that something that you tell your students? Absolutely. I akin that to being a pitcher in baseball. If your fastball is working, you keep throwing the fastball. If you're getting it past the people and you're striking people out or making them foul, then you keep using that until somebody gets used to it. Also, they say, oh, I see what he's doing. I got to swing a half a second quicker. OK, well now I'm going to throw a breaking ball. So I'm going to throw curves. So it's the same thing at 3.5 is that we want to keep them on balance. If you have something that's working and I played against the guy the other day who had the exact serve you're talking about. He had a high. He didn't even hit a high topspin serve. It was more like a lob serve. Well, it's frustrating. That can be a very frustrating serve. You have to stand back there and you have to be if they land it back deep. You have to be back behind the baseline considerably because you want to hit it on the upswing. You don't want to hit it at the apex. You want it to fall down to about hip level before you can return it. So that can be an, that's a great serve to have. Can frustrate even very good players. What I generally do in competition is I start with that serve. Yeah. Hoping it works because sometimes you plan something and it just for some reason doesn't work. And if it works then I stick with it until they get used to it and then I'll do more of a deep flatter what I would call my default serve. And looking at default serves it's important to have a default serve at every level even at 3.5 isn't it? It is. Once we get to 4.0, 4.5 and especially in singles tell people let's take some more chance. If you have a really good serve, let's take more chances. Even if you only hit 7 or 8 out of 10, even if you hit two of those into the net, the other 7 or 8 are going to be so hard to return to your opponent. Typically we'll hit a short return which to me it is just as good because I'm moving up and I'm cranking the ball right at my opponent's partner who's not going to be very happy with that short return. So it's all about throwing your opponent off of kilter. And whatever it takes to do that, whether it be a flat hard serve, whether it be a loopy a high serve, whatever it takes so that they're not returning it at the proper spot for them, that's where you're going to have the advantage. And that's what we're trying to do. All we're trying to do is create an advantage. So one question I have for you and this is relevant because I think I'm sort of at this level is, okay, I like to be consistent with my serve but also I like to take a few risks, because it's dependent on what the score is and how things are going. So what would be a general guide of how many serves I'm allowed to hit out? Does that make sense? Do you understand the question? How does it mean that I be? You could be very risky or a slightly risky or a little risky depending on the quality of the return of your opponent. So if the return of your opponent, when you're hitting your maximum rate of serve, if they're consistently hitting it short, I don't care if it sticks out of that, you're probably going to generate more points by keeping that serve and keeping that pressure on. There's no fixed thing in pickle ball where you can do that. It depends on your opponent. So I've hit some great serves and I've had opponents that just return them and I'm just sitting or shaking my head going, how are you returning that serve? But they are. So if they're doing that, then I'm going back to a consistent serve. I will take a minute just to explain if I look at serving as a lifespan. What I mean by that is when you're a 1.0 or 1.5 or 2.0, you're in the infancy of pickle ball. Get it over. And you're in 2.5, 2.3.0, you're a teenager. I want you to get it in. I want you to be somewhat consistent. When you're a adult, I want you to be very consistent. When you get to be 4.5, 5.0 or if you're playing singles, I want you to go back to basics because the 4.5 and 5.0 players are going to return your serve. I don't care what you do. That's why you see froze. They're not hitting on serves. They're hitting baby serve because they know they're going to hit. There's no reason not to get it in. At 3.5, one can still cause quite a lot of damage with it. We're in with it. Absolutely. Absolutely. So it depends on your opponent. If they're returning your serve, you get consistency. If you take your time. So now let's move on to that return of serve. At high intermediate, 3.5, I mean, you and I often say the return of serve is the most important shot in pickle ball. Absolutely. So what are you telling your students at 3.5 and with God to the return of serve? Same thing. Get it deep. Get it high. At 3.5, people who are at the baseline, even if they hit it very hard at you, if you get it high enough, you're going to be at the non-bally zone. You're going to have your paddle in correct position. So even if they hit a hard shot, you're going to be able to repel that shot and reset it deep. So again, it's all about how long does it take you to get up to the non-bally zone and not only get there, but be set with your paddle in the correct position. So depending on that, depends on your athleticism, your age, your speed, that sort of thing. But high and deep never, never fails. Yeah, high and deep is a good rule of thumb. And also as seniors, we mentioned this before, it gives us a little more time to get to the net, isn't it? It does. And even if we're fast, we're not to the point where we're really want to be. We want to take our time. One of the things I talked to you about seniors is a lot of times they come flying up to the line, but when they come flying up to the line, they bring tension with them and that tension translates into a harder grip, a paddle grip at the line. And when you have a harder paddle grip, a lot of times your recess are long. So we want to be able to get comfortably up to that line, not bringing tension with us and have our paddle in the correct spot with the correct grip. Okay brilliant. So we basically look at a good sort of default standard known nonsense return. What about sort of other tricky returns like a drop return or a bin return or something like that? I mean I found sometimes I'll try a cut return, quite a nasty cut return and sometimes the opponents just don't manage it and I keep doing it a few times and I'll get to a three points until they get used to it. So I suppose it's worth trying these things early on in a game, is it? Absolutely. A cut return is a great return as far as I'm concerned because it bounces low and it bounces a little bit sideways. So until they get used to that, I really love a cut return. I very rarely hit just a return. It usually has some top spin on it or some cut spin on it and it's targeted towards the middle or it's targeted towards the outside edge where my opponent has their back hand. And that's a really good point at 3.5 on the return is that I suppose at the lower levels you're kind of returning back to the server but as you get a little better especially with a cut sort of side spin it's not a bad shot to hit that onto the backhand of the non-server. No, it's actually a desired shot to do that. Like I said, it keeps it low and it bounces low and it really causes pinch fusion at especially at 3.5 levels. Even at 4.0 levels, I mean a lot of times I will hit cut shots back as a return of serve and a lot of 3.55 4.0 players they have a hard time handling that cut spin because it bounces so low a lot of times that return is right into the net. So a cut spin return of serve is a great thing to learn. Yeah good I do find it helpful and just a stick with returns what about a sort of little drop return because I mean they're staying way back. What about that just a little drop over the net. Unless you practice that that's a time. A lot of times it'll hit the top of the net and go down. The other time is if you hit it a little too hard all you're doing is bringing that person up to the net. I do like drop shots like that when you're dinking or when you're when somebody hits a drive at you as if you're already up the line so as a third shot something if they're hitting a drive at you and they're on their back foot and they're at the baseline. A lot of times I will hit a little cut spin and just flop it right over the net especially if I know they're not going to get up to the net at that point in time. But you're taking a risk because if you hit it a little too deep all you're doing is bringing your opponent up to the net. So the risk reward for that is very low unless you're good at it. Okay that's that's a good point. Okay let's move on now to the third shot. We have this debate should third shot drop third shot drive. Where are we with that on a high intermediate level? Yeah we're starting again we're starting to look at our opponents and what they're good at. One opponent might be good at the drive might be good at resetting the drive the other opponent might be not good at that so I will drive at my opponent that particular opponent. If my other opponent is handling my drops very well and getting behind the ball and able to put some top spin on and move it around then in the other person isn't very good at drops then I'm going to go that route. If all is level I tend to drive the ball first. Try to get them to repel the ball and again I'm not getting a drive right at them necessarily. I'm trying to move it away so that their paddle has to jet out to the side one way or the other. What that's going to do is it's going to get them to leave the ball short. That's what I'm looking for. I want to be moving up towards the ball. Now I'm hitting a fifth shot drop which is a much more easy shot than a third shot drop and now my partner and I are getting up to the net. So my whole purpose on a third shot is not to win a point it's to get it's to remove the advantage and get parity for myself and my partner. So at 3.5 should be really almost changing a third shot drop to a fifth shot drop. That's something we should really be thinking about. I think that's something that's very wise. Again it depends on the quality and how well you can hit a third shot and this is where it's pops and pins and patty is that we want to be able to. My goal is when I hit either a drop, drip or a drop. I want to see my opponent's paddle go below the net. If I see the opponent's paddle go below the net that doesn't mean they are going to retrieve it but they aren't going to be hitting it at a speed so hard I can't reset that ball. At 3.5 we are starting to teach resetting in the transitions. So we really want to be looking at that if even if I can only get halfway in or 3/4th of a way in. If they're hitting it high enough where I can attack that ball. Whatever works. And interestingly you've said that a fifth shot drop is mostly easier than a third shot drop. Absolutely. I mean when you talk about the distance you're talking about 22 feet from the net to your baseline. So if I'm back at my baseline I'm trying to hit a third shot drop. I'm trying to hit it at about 26/27 feet. I wanted to clear the net but I don't want that. I don't want it going back to the line itself. So if I can hit a hard shot and get a repelling and I can come in and now I'm hitting it at 17 or 15 feet I can keep that drop lower which means the bounce is going to be lower or I can get that paddle to go down towards the shoelaces a lot easier than I can if I'm back at 22 or 25 feet. That is really really interesting. It's about geometry basically. The whole game is about geometry when you think about the edge you have horizontal angles and you have vertical lengths. Your best friend is the net. If you get up to get them up to the net and keep it low they can't attack you. So all you math teachers out there you should be pretty good at pickable. If you're in the physics or math you ought to be killing this thing. Okay friends here is what I want you to do next. I know you love the content today. I have a free download that I put together just for you so you can dive deeper into what I share with you today. You are not going to want to miss this. So for details have a look in the show notes. Okay back to the podcast. Okay so let's go straight into it. We're looking at high intermediates 3.5 and we're looking at the forehand drive which I suppose for most people is their main weapon would you say? Yeah I say that both fortunately and unfortunately because I think the drop still has a lot of value and I think there's not a lot of people that are learning they're abandoning the third shot drop and trying the third shot drive. So let's talk a little bit about the drop versus the drive and when you should do that. So if you're on if they hit a deep serve and you are back by the baseline I'm I'm Mr. Drop guy. If you hit a hard forehand drive again we're not trying to hit it at 100% power we're trying to hit it about 70% power and we're seniors. So if we're hitting our shots from the baseline and they're already up there where they return your serve and you're stuck back there and they're set at the kitchen you're you're wasting a hard shot where you could be hitting a drop shot and having the ability to get up to the line but if you are going to hit drives one of the most important things is is this in high-intermedias we want to really start focusing on topspin because that will allow us to hit the ball harder and still maintain it being in the back. So we got to really make sure we're we're learning topspin and the most crucial thing to hitting topspin is your knees getting your knees bent and your paddle below the ball and hitting it on an upward arc that's what creates the topspin that's what creates the lift and the ball that will get it over the net and it brings it and it brings it down to people's feet. It does all we're trying to do is get that ball to dip below the net so we see that paddle on our opponents go down which we know then even if they can attack us it's not going to be a hard attack where where is if we get it if we just hit it as hard as we can and it stays above the net we can get attacked so that's why it's so very important if you're going to hit a third shot drive to learn some topspin and really start focusing on that. That's really interesting because I like a lot of people come from tennis, and top spin is basically fundamental in tennis at a reasonably high level. But when you start with pickleball, top spin's quite difficult to do, but I mean at high and immediate level, which is sort of the level where I am now, one should really be looking at that. I think it's an important shot, isn't it? - Right, I think up until about a 3.0, you can live without spin. But if you're gonna go 3.5 and beyond, you've gotta not only be able to do spin, but understand spin when it's coming to you. - Okay, so we'll stick with the forehand drive, and top spin's important, but sometimes when they're not at the net, and where's all four players and maybe no man's land, or a little bit further back, and they're hitting drives at each other, what's your view there? Is sort of be careful of placement, put it down the middle, aim for their feet. - Well, aiming for their feet and putting it down the middle are never bad ideas. What I teach students as they approach the net, is I want them to get pinching the net. If you're a 3.0 or 3.5 player, you're not really great at hitting it down the line. Your shots are going mostly in the middle. So if your shots are going in the middle, why are we not protecting that middle? Everybody knows that you got 34 inches in the middle, 36 on the outside. We've got about a balls width that we can hit extra hard if we're pointing it across the middle. So that's where everybody is going to be hitting. We got to be protecting that. So the other thing is, I think we talked about this, and if we haven't, we should. RREI, ready, react, execute, improve. So when you execute your shot, if somebody is back in the transition zone, hit it at their feet, make sure you're getting that ball to dip down because the other part of it dipping down is once it hits, it's propelling towards them. So when it propels towards them, as soon as you hit that ball, it's this is a mistake. Everybody makes it to 3.5 level, and even at the 4.0 level, they hit it, and they watch their very nice shot go right towards, and they stand there and watch, rather than hit, move, get up there. So don't be that person that stays in the transition zone. Your whole goal is to get to the non-valley zone. So once you make that shot, instinctively bang, just go. Don't watch it, don't say, I wonder if that's gonna be good or not, get up there. And if you go, your partner's gonna go too. - Yeah, just to talk about a personal shot that I have, which certainly against the players I'm playing against now, which is sort of 3.25, 3.33, 3.4, seems to work really well. I try to explain it, you know in tennis, when you kind of reach for a forehand, and it's like Raffa Nadal used to do this really well, and you kind of whip it. It's kind of like a side spin and a top spin, but if you do it well, it can really go across the court and come down onto the sideline, sort of very readily. And it's a shot that I don't know, when it bounces in the right spot, I give it a go, and it kind of works sometimes. So all I'm saying is that we've all got our little idiosyncrasies. If something's working for you, try it out, do it. - I was just gonna say that, you know, I'm a former golfer, and I still golf, but I remember Jim Furek, and if you know that name, you know that crazy wild swing he has. - Yeah. - If Jim Furek said, "Hey Jeff, how would you change my swing?" And I would look at him and go, wait a minute, you're one of the top 10 golfers of all time. Why would I want to change something that works for you like that? - Yeah. - Some of the people have really weird putting swings. If it works for you, it works for you. Everybody has that little shot. Mine happens to be, if they hit it right in the middle, I have this backhand flick that just works. I want to put myself in position for that. It's not that I'm looking for that, but when it's bare, I'm gonna do it. And I'm gonna be successful eight or nine out of 10 times. So if you have that shot, I don't want to change that. - Yeah, well, it works. - Right? - Yeah, absolutely. So fantastic, thank you so much. We're gonna stick with high intermediate 3.5 and we're looking at the backhand drive. A slightly more tricky shot, but at 3.5, we should be getting it back fairly readily, I guess. - Right, and I think the secret is to start slow. People, they want to turn a light switch and all of a sudden they're hitting backhand drives as fast as they're hitting forehand drives. My backhand drive is not as good as it should be because I don't try to be in that position a lot. I try to hit backhand cuts because I'm not a really good backhand drive player. In the backhand drive, I'm using more hips. So when I can get turned, and this is the thing, hard to hit a backhand drive unless you have time to set up for it. A forehand drive is easier because you can be pretty much straight at the net and still have time to get that drive with your legs where on a backhand drive, at least for me, if I have to turn my body so that I have my hips back at about 90 degrees. And then my paddle goes out and I bring my paddle back with my hips. And then it's all hip action. What I'm doing is I'm right handed, so my dominant hand is my right hand. I'm keeping my right hand on because my right arm is much stronger than my left arm. And I'm using my left arm to create the top spin that I'm trying to hit or the cut spinner, whatever I'm trying to do when I hit the drive. But the impetus for the power is coming from my hips moving through the ball. And I'm hitting it more, instead of hitting it out in front of me, I'm hitting it more on the side. - Yeah. - So that I can use those hips to whip through. And as I whip through, that's going to create that speed. The hips are going to be doing it rather than my calves and my thighs. - But you have a 100 backhand drive, dude. - I do one handed, yeah. If somebody's hitting it to my backhand, especially if it's deep, and this is the thing, deep shots to the backhand are the hardest shots in pickleball to return in my opinion. If somebody has a really good top spin backhand drive, the way to do that is keep them back as far as possible and make them do that from back towards the baseline. Because if they get up to the non-vole zone and they're good, they're very hard to come back that shot. So I'll do a lot more drops with my backhand. And then advance to the non-vole zone because at the level I play, a lot of people aren't going to be fooled too much by a hard backhand drive if I'm back far enough. Now, if I'm at the non-vole zone, you bet you. I'm going to hit, I'm going to be hitting two handed or one handed backhand drives, depending on how much time I have to take, you know, get the shot up. - Yeah, you mentioned about the backhand cut. I think it's important to look at this. I mean, you know, at the 3.5 level, the backhand cut is generally more reliable. It's generally an easier shot to get to when things are moving fast. So I guess, you know, if someone has a good backhand cut, you know, a backhand drive is important, but you know, you can get a, you can get a, not a way with, but you can still have a very good game with cutting the ball 90% of the time on your backhand. - Absolutely, most people I find at 4.5 or under have a hard time with cut spin. The people who don't have a hard time with cut spin are former tennis players because they're used to top spin. And when they say cut spin coming at them, they realize that they can use that cut spin, get the paddle below the ball, and then add top spin to it. So now you have super top spin. It really, you can really crank it a little bit better and use the backspin coming from them. But most people don't do that most. And if you're one of those people that you're defending against somebody who really has that chop backspin, keep a flat paddle, don't try to do anything fancy and just get it over the net. At 3.5, you don't have to hit a winner at every end. And this is the problem we run into. A lot of people at 3.5s are trying to put it away themselves rather than play the point out, wait for the proper setup or cause the proper setup and then go that route. Yeah, I mean the backhand drive, I mean the backhand generally is more tricky. I think a lot of people run around and as perfectly fine to run around it onto the forehand, especially in singles. But when let's not talk singles now, or else that's for another day, but even in doubles, sort of run around that and sort of hit it on the forehand. And if you're able to do that and you're speedy enough to do that, that's absolutely fine, I would guess. Yeah, your partner has to be aware that if, especially, let's say you're defending the left side and you're going off the court, your partner has to know you're running around the backhand and they have to move across. And I tell them not only to move across but move forward and across because now you're taking real estate and angles away from the other people. If he hits it back and partner isn't able to get back, you've taken away as much real estate and angle as you can. So as you're moving across, you should also be moving forward. Yeah, that's really, really interesting and very, very good advice. Thank you so much. Right now, let's move on to the volley. I mean, volleys are, you know, a lot of points at one of volleys, most, most points, I guess, in pickle balls. So what are you saying to 3.5 players about the volley? So we're really starting to use the volley as an offensive skill now. And in 2.5 and 3.0, we use it more as a reset and it's still important to know. know how to reset the ball. I mean, when you're talking 3.5, you're looking at what 3.0s are doing and you're you want to be more consistent. But you're now starting to add a little, you're starting to put on extra couple pages in on a book. And one of the things we really want to do, if it's above the waist, we want to be able to attack that. So we are starting to use it more as an offensive weapon. It doesn't have to be at shoulder high or above your head for it to be an offensive weapon. Even at hip high, depending on how far you are back in the transition zone. Of course, if you're up at the Noin Volley zone, those are shots where you really want to focus on top spin rolls and try to get it down at the feet. Because, you know, the whole game of pickleball is hit it at their feet, get their paddle angle so that they'll pop it up and then you or your partner put it away. That's it. If you understand nothing else about pickleball, understand that's the game. And if you look at the pros, that's exactly what they're doing. They're moving their people around. They're trying to create opportunities where they can hit, you know, start a real offensive rally. And they understand that probably three or four shots down the road, they're going to win the point. Because you keep that pressure on eventually somebody's going to hit it high enough that you can put it away. So this is really important on the forehand volley that we understand when you can be offensive, let's be offensive now. So we're going to really start focusing on making sure you hit the ball down and then you crash the middle. You know, we call it a shaken bake. I don't know what you call it there. But anytime you can hit down on it and get them to pop it up, you best be moving in to the net because that's where the ball is going to come back. And it's going to be popped up at some point in time and then there's your put away if you're in position. And then and then sometimes there's the point. I mean, you know, at this level, we're starting to actually have four people with their toes just outside the non volley line. And there's the quick rapid volley rally between four people. We're getting to that level here at 3.5. And we talked before and I suppose it's still relevant that, you know, most of those shots are going to be back hands. I would say more than likely that's true. The big thing is again, I'm just such a huge believer in knees. And I realize when I start making shots and I'm starting to the top of the net and I start getting frustrated, I realize I'm being lazy. I'm not getting my knees down. I'm not getting my knees down and keeping my head. And this is a big thing too. When we get into these hands battle, you can't be raising your head and chest up. Once you get in position, get your paddle out in front and it's all about your hands. It's all about hand position. You're not moving. Your body isn't moving along. Your head isn't moving along. Your knees aren't coming up. Everything stays. And it's all about your hands. So that's a big thing. Once we commit to that, we've got to make sure that we aren't hitting and coming up out of our stance. That's the biggest thing that loses hand rallies to me. Yeah, absolutely right. I just want to put in a small safety thing here because I think when one gets to this level and you're having those what you call hand battles, the balls moving fast. And I really think we should all be looking at it. I don't want to go on about it too much eye protection. I just think especially here in the UK, there are not that many people using eye protection. And I think they think, well, you know, I haven't reached a certain level, but I think probably this is the level where if you're not wearing eye protection, you're kind of asking for trouble. Would you concur with that? Oh, yeah, 100,000%. Here's the thing. Most problems come from you've been in hit from your partner. So that's one of those things where you should, when you step on the court, you should have court shoes on and you should have eye protection. Yeah. Those are the big things that you really want. You don't want to twist an ankle and you don't want to get hit in the eyes. Yeah. It's not going to kill you any place else, but you hit me eye. You're trouble. Yeah, I just I just wanted to I just wanted to slip that in. So guys, if you want out there, please, please, please mark mark our words. Listen to coach Jeff, just get it. Okay. Now we move on to the dink. Extremely important shot at this level. So what are you telling your high intermediate people about the dink, Jeff? I don't want to say aim just to your backhand. I mean, that's what we want to do. Anytime we hit a dink, if we can get it to somebody's backhand, typically that's that's a good thing. I want him to get it even past the backhand. I want him get it to specific spots. So I really focus on on the backhand on the back, maybe. So we have a seven foot kitchen. I'm looking at that the last two feet of the kitchen, mostly. I don't want it to be much higher than that, but one of the things in dinking, I find is that you have to look at who's on the other side and you have to be able to be good enough to react to that. So some people are not good dinkers. And it's because they get up there and try to hit the ball too hard. So if they're doing that, I'm going to be dinking with them all the time. I'm going to get them up there and I'm going to get them into a dink battle. And I'm going to be hitting it to their backhand. I'm going to be consistently hitting it a little deeper and a little deeper because what I want to do is get them off that line. The biggest thing in when we're dinking is staying close with your partner. But the whole idea is if you're dinking, you want to get them separated. You want to get them away from that. There are three places we can dink to far left, far right and middle. There's only two players. So they can only cover two places. So it's a matter of making that move and dinking and moving them around. I try not to dink in the same place twice unless I have somebody that I know is very bad as a backhand dinker. I will just keep dinking it back there until I win the point. But in most cases, I'm moving it around. I'm going to the backhand and I'm going to the middle a lot. And the reason I'm going to the middle is because that cuts down on angles. So if I can keep a low shot on the in the middle, I'm taking away angles of where they can put it. If I hit it too far or too wide, it creates an ATP situation or an Ernie situation. It gives them more angles to hit too. So I think a lot of people don't think about that and they're trying to keep it really close to the net. But you're actually giving people more of an opportunity. You know, I think I'm one of those people. When I dink, I have this mentality and I really need to rethink this, which is I generally dink cross court and wide, but not too wide for them to hit an ATP. And my mentality previously has been just keep going. You're more patient than them. We will break them down. But you know, you're saying that's not so much the case. You know, do it wide, do it middle, another one middle, maybe wide, another wide middle. You know, I think that that's something I really need to bring into my game. You're consistently hitting it to my backhand. I'm going to be starting to turn a little bit and giving you, I'm going to take it for hand. And if I take it for hand, I'm much more dangerous than backhand. So if you keep coming there and I know you're going to come there, I'm going to slide across, get it for hand. And then I'm going to rip one down the middle. If somebody's doing that to you and you're that person that's getting hit to the backhand all the time, don't be afraid to talk to your partner. Let them come across the middle. And here's the big thing is if I'm the guy who's not being hit to, I'm going to go to the middle. And if my partner is taking it in the backhand, my paddle is going to be out as far as I can reach it because I want to show them that unless they hit it close to the net, closer they can get it to the net, the more chances are they're going to hit it into the net. And the more chances are it's going to bounce outside and my partner can do an ATP. But if I put my paddle out there, I'm cutting off that deep backhand shot because I'm putting my paddle out there. If I can just flick it down, I'm taking that away. So if you can help your partner a lot by getting you in position and getting that paddle out there and showing them, hey, you make one little mistake, I'm going to bury you. And I think that that's 3.5. We ought to be looking at that. That's right. Now, now, it's might be appropriate to bring up that word that our seniors here of a lot. And that's bangers, playing against bangers. And I always say, I like to say, well, our seniors, we can play against them. We're patient. We've got life experience. And I suppose the dink is where a lot of that happens. Is that correct? Yep. One of the things I find is when I'm playing and this is something I do that I'm still working my way around it. I'm a senior, but I'm not as patient as I can be. And so I will get into a dinking battle with somebody and we'll be going cross work, cross work, cross work, then I'll start hitting to the partner, trying to get them creating a spot in the middle. If you're if you're a paddle position and your leg position is the same for the dink is the same for the speed up and is the same for a lob. They're not going to know what's coming. They don't know. It's got the whole thing. So at 3.5, I would really look at getting a standard position where your knees are bent, the paddles out in front. You're taking as many balls as you can out of the air because that's the secret to hitting a lob shot is not waiting for the ball to bounce but taking it out of the air. Because if you think about it, what position should we be in if we're into Dynvolva? He's at it. Tatlana Middle, paddle down the middle and our weight is forward. So since our weight is forward, it'll take that extra split second for them to track down a lob. Well, that leads us on to the next shot, which is the lob. So you basically talked about, I suppose, one could call it the Dynk lob if you want to, which is one lob, but there's the other lob where you in No Man's Land or you little bit further back, they come up to the net and you think, "Hey, there's a bit of space behind them," and you go for that lob. What are you telling your high intermediate players about that? It's a good idea if you practice it. You want to be in balance when you do it. I see too many people trying to do it when they're on the run or they're doing something where they have to reach for the ball. Can you have success with it? Yes. Are you going to have success with that on a regular basis? Probably not. So I really reserve that for my students. When they're in a situation where they are really standing there, they're waiting for the ball coming. They're balanced well. The ball is in front of them and it's a perfect time to do that if they're coming up. And then you have time and we want to hit the lob as the ball is falling. We want to do it at apex. Same thing when we're taking deep shots and we want to hit it on. Drive shots. We want to hit that basically at apex. But drops and lobs we want to hit as the ball just starts to fall because that will help load a high shot there. If we're in the middle, then I don't want to hit it straight down the middle. I want to hit it away from the dominant hand. So if they're a right handed player and they're defending the left side, I want to hit it back into that right corner because not only do they have to turn, but they have to get in position where they can hit it on the forehand. If they hit it on backhand chances are they're going to pop it up and we're going to be able to put it away anyhow. And I give one other thing. When you're running, if you're defending the lob, you want to run kind of in a banana shape, kind of in a sea shape. You don't want to run straight back to where the lob is going to land because then your paddles in tight or it lands on you or it lands so near you that you can't do it. So you want to run outside of the path of that lob so that when you get there, you have a forehand motion and it's away from you far enough that you can hit either a drive or you can hit a drop or you can hit a return lob. You're putting yourself in that position. If you don't do that, then you're going to be at the mercy of one of these shots and nobody wants to do that. Yeah. Yeah. It's interesting you say, you know, the lob can be a good shot, but if you do it too regularly, it probably is not going to be a good shot. And I think I mentioned this before when we talked about the other one of the other ratings is that I can use the lob quite a lot. I mean, I've come from senior tennis and I used to lob quite a lot in senior tennis, you know, over, you know, the, the, the ponet at the net. I think I've got the mechanics of the lob, but interestingly coming to Pickable, I've been playing Pickable two years now, I would lob and yes, they'd run around and they'd get it back and we'd play the rally. And then I remember thinking actually counting how many lobs I put in thinking, oh, that's good. It goes over there, you know, it goes over their heads, gets into the court, but out of those lobs, how many of the points rallies did I actually win? Yeah. And it's, it's not 100%. You know, it could be 60, 40 or something like that. So it is interesting what you say about that, you know, you can put up the best lob and feel really good about it, but, you know, you're not going to win 100% of those point of those rallies. So, so beware, you made a very, very good point, very good point. Wonderful, fantastic. Right. And now we moving on to the smash. High intermediate level. I mean, a smash should not necessarily be a put away, but it should be a very offensive show. I watch a lot of YouTube videos. I, of course, have my own channel, but I also watch a lot of the pros and one of the biggest differences I see from the pros, they all have their own thought process about how you should hit a lot. I just saw one of the pros and they said, you want to have your paddle back so that you can whip through and it's all about the risk. And that would be not opposite, but I really wouldn't teach that for my students. And again, when Ben and Colin John's separated, I did not get a call from Ben John. He did not call me, I would say, oh, hey Jeff, we'd like you to be marked up, new doubles partners. That surprises me, Jeff. You must have been disappointed. Nobody, nobody, I was, you know, I was sitting there waiting by the phone and man, it just didn't happen. You know, I was a little offended. You know, I got it. But one of the things that I want to see it out in front of us, if it's behind you and this is one of the things, the risk is great as a secondary mechanism. What I mean by that is we want to use our big muscles at all times if we can. Our risk is an extension of what we do with our big muscles. It shouldn't be the first thing that happens unless they time it perfectly. It just goes down into the net and I just see, bail you so many times. So I, you know, number one, I want to give myself as much chance as I can to get the ball in. So if I'm extremely right or extremely left on the court, I'm going to go cross court as much as I can when I do that. And I want to keep that slightly in front of me so that I can just put my paddle up, keep it straight, hit down. I played against some people that just hit, you know, 60 mile an hour smashes. I can't do that and keep it in bounds on a regular basis. So I don't try to do that. Being 69 years of age, that's, and it's never going to get better. It doesn't, as we get older, we don't get stronger, typically. So I'm not going to try to get away from not to get some more speed on that. So what I am going to try to do is move the ball around and be more accurate with it. One of the big keys I do for myself is when the ball is up in the air and I know I'm going to be able to reach it. Just before I get it, my last thing I do is I'm looking at taking a glance across the net and seeing where they're at. I have one girl I play against who consistently will hit it as hard as she can at an angle to get it out of bounds. Every time, not once, not twice, but 10 out of 10 times. So as soon as I see something floating up there, I'm just breaking for the sideline and I'm catching up to it probably three quarters of the time. And what that's doing is that's bringing me in closer to the net, which is what you don't want to do. So I'm more about getting the ball down as fast as possible, rather than getting it where as fast as possible. So I want to see the ball hit down because if you hit it down hard, it's going to jump high. So people are going to be here to defend it or get it back. And I want to see their paddle up as high as possible back by their head, which is what happens when you hit it down hard. So I'm a big believer in hitting it down hard. And like I said, I will glance over there and if they're giving them the middle, I'll hit it down the middle. If they're moving away from it on their back foot, I'm going to hit a sharper angle because I know they can't come back up and get it. See a lot of people, they hit the standard spot. They have this go-to spot they hit to, which is good, but it's not great. And I think great is seeing what's going on and then reacting to that with your smash. And I think the other thing, certainly for me is the ball goes up. You've got the chance of hitting a very offensive shot, a very aggressive shot. And as an ex-tennis player, I'm trying not to do it so much now is I'd go for the sidelines. And I'd hit it out quite a lot. And so I'm changing that now and I'm going now sort of down the middle or as my old father used to say, my old dad used to say, taught me tennis down to the shoelaces. That's what he used to say. So yeah, it's so tempting sort of you've got that smash, you just want to knock the skin off the ball. And the other thing is you say something very interesting. Keep the paddle in front of you. So I think it's good. Someone said it might have been you, Jeff, that pretty much all times you need to see that paddle from your periphery vision. And that's the same in a smash, isn't it? You don't want to be taking it like tennis to the back of, you know, way over the back of your head, which I was doing certainly until just six months ago in Pickleball. Well, I think depending on how much time you have and how high the ball is, you can make that adjustment. I still will do the scratch of the back of your head with the paddle that we've learned in tennis, Patty. And I will still hit that smash if I can. But most of the time, when you think about how much time people aren't loving when you're smashing. Typically, they're making a mistake. making. I dropped too hot or they're hitting it. Somebody hit a really good thing and they're popping it up. I think that's when you've got to make sure because where is our hand position? When we're at the Noin Ball either. It's got to be out in front of us. Our paddles already there. This is the mistake I see. People bring the paddle back out of their peripheral vision and then they bring it forward. But by the time they bring it forward, the ball has already moved and now they're hitting it out because they're not contacting the ball where they need to come. It's getting a high five. It's what you're doing. It's as much of a surprise to them where they don't have time to react. But if they're hitting it back over my head, trying to hit a log over my head. I've got time, spotting the ball with my non-dominant hand. My paddle is coming back behind my back and then what I'm doing is I'm basically throwing air down with my non-dominant hand while my paddle and my arm over the top. So if I have time, I'll do that and I can hit the ball quite hard when I'm doing that. But again, my thing is getting it down, getting it out of play as much as possible. Wherever that happens, the one thing you don't want to do is being hitting it when it's right above your head like this. I think lastly about the smash as well, I think we might have mentioned this when we started talking about the smash a few minutes ago is you don't have to win the point from a smash. You know, it goes up there, you got your eye on the ball, you're thinking, "Ah, I'm going to really hit this, I'm going to don't have the mindset that you have to win the point, make it awkward, you may win the point." And then you'll probably win the next hit of the ball when it comes back to you. So that's something that I've learnt. There's no high expectation that you will win the rally from that one smash. Isn't that pickleball fatty? I mean, that's the whole thing about pickleball versus a sport like tennis or something. It's so much of a bigger court that you can win it with one shot. In pickleball, typically, that's not true because we only have 20 feet, that we have to guard at 22 feet deep and 20 feet across, 440 square feet isn't a lot to have to guard. And if you're pretty agile, typically you're not going to win it on one shot. You have to set it up. And it's no different. I think you made a good point. It's no different from the smash. If you can get them out of position, lunging for a shot, typically it's going to come floating back and then you're going to get another opportunity. But I think it's a psychological thing. I think it's a mental strength thing. You're high intermediate, you're 3.5. Don't feel you have to win points when you have an amazing opportunity. You could win it on the next hit or the one I'll get that. Just keep it awkward, keep it rolling. And I think you're right, that's a big difference from pickleball and other racket sports and things like volleyball. Just keep it rolling and you will get a chance eventually to put it away. Right. Good, good, excellent. Right, now we are doing really well and we're coming on to the last shots that we're talking about. And we're sticking with high intermediate, 3.5 and we're looking at the reset shot. You know, we've all been at the back of the court. People are smashing it down at us. You at the back of the court and you're bashing it back to them. That's where you really need to be looking at the reset shot. Is that right? Yes, if the ball is low and this is my key here, if the ball is hip high, depending on how far back I am, I can be offensive with that. But as I get closer and closer, I really start adjusting my reset based on how low the ball is coming. When we say resets, resets can be ballies or they can be ground strips. I want a point today. I had to hit four shots to win this point. My partner tried to hit a lob, didn't work. They smashed it right at me. As soon as I see that ball going up, the first thing I'm doing is I'm getting low in my knees. I'm split stepping and I'm putting my paddle almost right on the ground because that's where the ball's coming from. And three times in a row, I was able to defend hard shots. Now the first two times I hit it. I hit a floater because it was the only thing I could do. It came at me so fast that sometimes you just have to put your paddle down and wherever it goes back, it goes back. But if it goes over the net, when I was learning one of my good friends who was a better player in me at the time, said, make him hit it one more time. And at three five, they aren't going to be successful every time. So if you can get those shots back on a reset and just get it across the net, then you're forcing them to try to get another hard shot and then another hard shot. It's sometimes it's forcing them to get hard shots. And the fourth time I hit a third shot reset, I kept getting them a little lower and a little lower. And that's four time when my opponent tried to hit a shot, he hit it into the net. So if you can just keep doing that, you can frustrate people. We talked about young people, bangers versus seniors when we talk about us being patient. That's part of wisdom and age is knowing that if you just get it back, you're creating a situation where they're getting frustrated. And it's like, what do I have to do to get this point? I keep it as hard as this guy and all they're doing, reset, reset, reset. So if you get good at resetting, that can be an offensive strategy as well as a defensive strategy because you're forcing them. And what do you do as a frustrated person? If it isn't working when you're hitting it hard, what do you do? You hit it harder. And when you hit it harder, there's more chance for mistakes. So you get that paddle down, get it low, have the paddle angle sitting where it's going to be above that net. And then the last thing you want to do is think about how light or firm your hands are. The firmer grip, and one of the things we tend to do as amateurs is when we get an intense situation, that tension not only comes from our bodies, but it goes down to our hands. So a lot of people are gripping that paddle too tight. And when you're gripping that paddle tight, it doesn't allow for any give in it and it's going to shoot that ball back high. And that's not what we want. We want to shoot the ball back soft so that it is falling just like a drop shot. So I think of a reset as basically a drop shot that's happening as a defensive thing rather than an offensive thing. You do three of those in a row. Yeah. A person on the other side is getting frustrated. And I think the thing about the reset shot, when you're getting to a 3.5 level, you've got to stick with it. It's so easy. I think a lot of people get to 3.5 without the reset shot. They're just hitting drives. They're hitting it really hard. I know a guy at my club, lovely fellow, lovely fellow. And he doesn't hit many reset shots. And therefore his reset shot isn't all that good, but he hits the drives pretty hard. But it's important, I think. And I think you agree with me to not just try the reset shot, but to keep at it. And someone said to me, it's almost impossible to get to a 4.0 really without that reset shot. I think you can take the word almost out of there. You've got to have that reset. It's a key thing. I would say you can get to 3.5 without a big one. When you get to a 4.0, you've got to have some type of a reset shot. And it's an art form. Because now we're starting to get into, it doesn't matter how hard you can hit. It matters how defensive I can be. And how can I send it back so that I make it a defensive shot for you. And that's a big thing with a reset. So get that paddle low, bend your knees. And here's the thing. I will say this a thousand times to students, your paddle goes where your knees go. I don't want you to shoot your paddle down without bending your knees. I have a very good friend I play with. And he is stagnated at about a 3.5 level. He's been playing longer than I have. But he does not bend his knees. I am on him all the time. Just bend your knees. And while you bend your knees, your paddle goes with it. So when you get those knees nice and low and your paddles nice and low, you can use your knees, you can use your legs to help reset the ball. Those are your big muscles. That's what you want to use. Absolutely and completely. Very, very good advice. So guys, you're at 3.5. I'm at around about 3.5. I've got to keep trying that reset shot. I've got to keep playing it. And I've got to keep on it. And that's the only way, you know, I'm, who knows, I may reach the dizzy heights of 4.0. So Jeff, that's absolutely fabulous, fabulous advice. So one thing I want to go over before this. I mean, this is a mindset. And it's a tough one for me. I like to win. I will, if there was, and I like to win club, I would be president. When I go to play, wreck play, I want to win. When I want to help myself, I've got to get out of that mindset. And I think we got to play with roots who aren't just, hey, well, how many wins did you have? Did I learn a better reset shot? Did I learn better time? Did I learn to keep my paddle out over the net? Did I learn to do better at thinking? What did I powder knives through today? That's winning and if you lose every game, but you gain Experience and you can something you can use for the next tournament Then you've won so I really think we got to get out of it when we're playing wreck We've got to get out of this. I got a win thing. I mean if you're playing in a ladder leg or tournament But then let's go and you've got to use what you know, but if you're in wreck play that's a practice opportunity I So pleased that you slotted that in on the end here at a sort of 3.5 level I I first day I think I'm quite good at that so I'll go into wreck play and It's the research shot. I'll be honest with you that I'm really given given a go and I and I actually say to my partner sometimes look You know, I'm really working on this reset shot So you know a few of them are gonna go in the net and so you just have to and then they're fine Yeah, it's wreck play. I'm really really well Absolutely, but I'm pretty good at that so I would say to people go into wreck play with one Possibly two shots in mind and really work on them, you know I don't worry too much about the rest of your game. Oh, yeah, yeah, brilliant. Well listen coach Jeff We reach the end. That's 10 amazing shots at in height and immediate level 3.5 Thank you so much. Now I want you to do me a favor You've got limitless pickleball on your shirt. I did up and show it into the camera. There we go like guys Everyone limitless pickleball coach Jeff Check it out on YouTube. He's a great guy and a great coach So please do that. He's been a wonderful friend and remains to be a wonderful friend at senior pickleball tips So thank you so much, Jeff. You've been an absolute Star. Thank you so much. Thank you I we've been doing a lot of shorts my videographer and I've been doing a lot of shorts and you know Some people can watch a seven or eight minute video some people want to see something in 30 to 45 seconds So we're working on a lot of those and I'll be migrating some of those over to senior pickleball tips just real quick shots Of things that they can think about so but I would I'd be honored if they would come and follow it I'd see your pickleball tips. We have about 90 videos out there What I'm explaining and talking with Patty that's what I'm doing on the court Is I'm actually showing and modeling to you what I think you should be looking at so I'd be be happy to have for anybody to come over and I just love being on senior pickleball tips and being a moderator and trying to keep things nice and light But keep things interesting over there and we're up to 125,000 people now and it's amazing how quickly this is grown and I want to see it keep keep going so I took terrific job brief with you and Terry and Yeah, looking forward to getting 150 years pretty soon Let's do it. Okay Jeff. Thanks so much indeed listen you take good care and Hope it doesn't get too cold there in Pennsylvania. It's nippy. It's about 28 today. So yeah, okay, okay? Okay? Okay, you take care. Bye for now. Bye. Bye everybody Don't want to miss an episode then follow and subscribe to the senior pickleball tips podcast Find it on Spotify Apple podcasts or Amazon audible or even just ask Alexa and Please leave a rating and review. Okay, folks. We'll leave it there. See you on court. Bye for now Thank you for listening to the senior pickleball tips podcast and I really hope you enjoyed it now remember We've got the Facebook group. We got the senior pickleball tips.com website So please head on there if you want to be more involved It would be great to see you. Okay, my senior pickleball tips friends paddle up stay safe and most importantly have fun (upbeat music)