Hidden in Darkness, Brought to Light - Aspen Speaks

Speaker 1 Hello and welcome to a series that I like to call hidden in darkness brats alike. My name is Anna and I am here to facilitate a dialogue with former alumni from South Carolina School of leadership also formerly known as South Carolina's Masters commission. I sincerely believe that this type of content has been a long time coming and is far overdue. Also really excited to offer this platform to those who feel that they've been silenced personally, I believe Eve that every experience that was had is valid and valued, even if it doesn't necessarily fit the narrative, I want your voice to be heard more than anything else. A couple of things that I wanted to mention, just before we get started, first, I wanted to say that this is in no way meant to attack slander. Shame or defame, any specific person more than anything? Again I just want to give others the opportunity to share what they've encountered and endured without bringing. In shame or hurt to any specific person or church associated with the program for that reason. No guests or myself will use the names of those involved in these stories. I desire to operate from a place of honor and respect and that's just because of who I am. I will say that some of these people may not deserve that respect or that honor but that's how we're going to conduct this podcast. If you know it, if you do want to use names and Bash each other, I highly recommend starting your own podcast. I will be trying to leave my personal opinions out of it as much as possible. Because again, for the third time, I really just want this to be a platform where people can share their own stories, however, good or bad, they may be. So, let me give you a little bit of background about South Carolina School leadership it. Has been around for. I would say, a little over 15 years and it was originally started as a master's commission with the Assemblies of God, a few years into it. They branched off and created their own school called South Carolina School leadership. Still under the same staff and church that it was originally South Carolina School of leadership or as I will now refer to it as SC SL because that's just simpler is basically an intense nine-month. Discipleship program where you pay a few thousand dollars to live on campus. And you basically consecrate yourself to the Lord for nine months, there are a plethora of rules to follow and we know these rules going into it. It's not like we're blindsided after we paid them the money for it. So the rules are basically, you can't talk to any member of the opposite sex. There are limits to how many hours you can work. There are really limits to everything, to be honest with, you know, listening to any type of secular music, you can only listen to worship music, you are encouraged to confront each other on each other's behavior and you are constantly being watched, you have what's called an isi. And that is essentially a An accountability partner, which you are supposed to tell everything to that includes all of your mess ups and it's for the sake of keeping you accountable. I do want to leave some of the rules for our guests to discuss because to be quite honest some of them will probably shock you and I'm all about that shock Factor. So please enjoy this podcast and if you are interested in speaking, hit me up. I'd love to have view on the show. All right, our first guest I would like to welcome Aspen. How are you doing today, Aspen? Speaker 2 I'm doing great. I got my glass of wine. I'm ready. Speaker 1 Well, I've got my Vanilla Coke so I'm ready to awesome. Well, let's start out with just a few questions to kind of Give people an idea of where you were, first of all, how did you hear about SC Speaker 2 SL? Yes, so I heard about us yourself through a friend from high school, who is now also an alumni, his use Pastor went to SC SL. And so I was going through a rough really, really rough patch in high school and I essentially left high school. So my first year of sasl was actually like, technically, one of them would have been my senior year of high school. So that's how I heard about yourself through the grapevine of People Speaker 1 gotcha. Cool. And what year did you decide to join? Speaker 2 So I joined in 2011. So I was a class of, I guess. 2012. Speaker 1 Okay. And I was in the same class, she'll blue. Yeah, good times. Did you go back for a second year? Speaker 2 I did not go back for a second year, so, I was really Just very excited to. I went in for my exit interview thinking I'm the shit like I got this and they were like you're to you too much package you too much. Like you knew someone healing? Like you're too much. So they were like, you can't come back and I was like what? So I didn't go back first second Year and thank God for it because yeah, I don't know. I feel like I got saved from that Speaker 1 situation. Yeah, it's kind of like a blessing in Speaker 2 disguise. Yeah. The only in our class specifically I was like me but it wasn't there for that drawn. Speaker 1 Yeah, you know, I've heard that our class was considered the worst of the worst. So Speaker 2 let's see if that's still holds Speaker 1 true for gotcha. Okay, so tell me a little bit about your first year. How was your experience with your Speaker 2 apartment? In the middle of SSL, make it really didn't feel bad to me. I felt like I was like in the best place in the world. That's why I felt in the midst of it. My apartment was crazy. It was a bunch of their strong-willed women. And then there was me who is not strongly. So there was a girl that got kids is our room and had to go somewhere else because she wasn't getting along with our a, like there was one time there was literally a screaming match. Waiting for one of our, like, what is it, won't they call that like a part of the family nights where you have to, like all, hang out together forcefully? Yes, mostly personally, I hated those, I hated family portrait. Nice mainly, just because I was like the one saying there in the corner crying because everybody's yelling at each other. Speaker 1 Yeah. So that's what it's like I understand, you know, I mean, you know, I had a similar apartment similar apartment story where I had an anxiety attack and passed out somewhere, that was good times man, good times. And the next day, I was moved into a different apartment and forgive me if I'm just assuming, but I believe I can speak for both of us. When I say Our arteries were pretty great. Speaker 2 Yes, I would never say anything negative about my ra. I think we didn't always agree on everything, but definitely I think Mary was, was pretty pretty outstanding in the way she handles things. Speaker 1 Yes, and I agree about yours and I feel the same about mine. I felt like my aura was one of the only people at SC SL, that was genuinely trying to protect me. That's awesome. Yeah, so II definitely feel you on that. So it's not some of the lessons. That we had were very questionable, would you agree? Speaker 2 Oh yes, we could hardly call them lessons. Let's be real. Speaker 1 Yes. So I actually went out and I got my my binder to life. Well, you're given this binder to put all of your lessons in all of your scripture studies. And it's, I mean, it's packed, it's packed with every lesson that we've ever had and I was just going back and reading through some of them and It's it's kind of it's shocking. So tell me. Were there any lessons that really stood out to you? Speaker 2 So yes, I remember like biblical studies where we learned about the Bible. I think that's what happened there and then there was a lot of like teaching about like marriage in the future which like we weren't even want to talk and go boys at the time and vice versa like we're not talk to girls or And then obviously, like there was no even thought process of, like, women are equally better than men. So, that was sort of thing. But yeah, just not being able to talk to opposite sex and then being like, this is how you have a perfect marriage. That's pretty much what I remember. Speaker 1 Yeah, I remember that as well. And, you know, there was like, a, what was it called? Emotional dependency class where we were taught about homosexuality and where it comes from? Speaker 2 Oh, I do not remember Speaker 1 this. Yeah. It was basically saying that an overbearing mother or father wound some something like that is what causes it when there were people that had none of that and we're still gay as hell? Speaker 2 Yeah, I don't know. They just think always something I guess. Speaker 1 Yeah, I guess it makes it a little easier to digest which I mean, I can understand but at the same time. Speaker 2 Yeah. Like just like do a little Divac keeping to my gosh, talk diving deeper into like, why you believe what you believe and then you could say that you're Speaker 1 wrong. Yeah, yeah. And I think it sounds well. Anyway, we don't have to get into theology. I just disagree, I disagree. So, you went to a lot of the worship nights, and I mean, I personally, remember you being like, very involved. Speaker 2 Yeah, I mean, I've been hauling, bro, I want all the. I I just like I was so like wanting to like be accepted. I was wanting to genuinely have an encounter with God, like genuinely, like, that's what I wanted and I definitely tried. Obviously, this is being a more Pentecostal Place, more than jellicle, I guess you would call it to ya. A lot of like, gifts of the Spirit and, oh my gosh, I can't. Literally batshit crazy, like gold dust like praying for healing. The things I was just like when I go to, I'm sure it happened. I don't even know that it happens, but it just ridiculous. Like, I remember like one night, there was a Like a Prayer night and they were all praying for Gold Dust, which I don't remember why would you pay for that? I don't know. And people being like icy cold. Awesome, everybody's running around being crazy and I like, didn't You see any of it? And I was like, oh God, I guess I'm not spiritual enough. And that's how I felt the entire year of SL was just, I was never enough. I was never matching the rest of the class. I was never like, they're, you know, this? So that was like, kind of my like, I guess, like, where I felt like the negative connotation in ask yourself, but like, kind of ignoring it because I just wanted to be accepted. Speaker 1 that is extremely that is an extremely profound statement and thank you so much for sharing that but I understand I understand what it was like to feel like an outsider looking in and you know, I remember that gold dust night in particular and I was like Speaker 2 that's Casino will say on has a little Speaker 1 glimmers in it, that's sand. Speaker 2 Oh my gosh, I was thinking like, you know, like when you sweat, like sometimes you have a little bit of Glycerin on you. Yeah, I was like, maybe it's just sweat. Like, I don't know, doubting Thomas over here like that's all I did. But I feel like Speaker 1 that's normal to do, you know as a person. I mean, regardless of if you're a Christian or not, you doubt things and you want to understand so it's not necessarily from a place of, you're batshit crazy. Z but more of a is this real can I trust this? And in SC SL it didn't really feel like there was an appropriate platform to discuss these types of Speaker 2 questions. Yeah they I definitely agree with that. I do remember they asked they did try to shut it down a little bit because they thought we were getting a little too crazy which I mean work, but they never like give us an opportunity to be like, hey, like this happen. Like came talk about it. And it's kind of like, well why don't where's your face? Like, where's your face? Speaker 1 Exactly. There were so many questions that I had while I was there that was consistently, told you need to stop questioning your faith and just trust the Lord. And I'm like, but I Speaker 2 have an anxiety disability like straight. Can't do that, right? Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Speaker 1 It's a lot. Yeah. So when did you start to notice and it maybe maybe didn't In your first year or you know a little bit later but when did you start to notice that something was just not Speaker 2 right? Yeah well let's see, I drink the team for a while like the lemony. What is the the saying? I drank the Kool-Aid, drink the Kool-Aid. There you go. I drink to cool it for a while and it wasn't until around. I would say 2017 is where I kind of was like, this isn't right. Like this isn't normal like kind of realizing like I had a I couldn't be around boys without feeling like I was like, I don't know. Like a jezebel, like I always felt like I was doing something wrong as I was even talking to a guy, so that was always something I struggled with after I see SL. Even just a pastor's like wanting to ask a pastor, a question, like a male leader. Like I was like, oh well, they're going to view me as a jezebel. If I even ask them a question and it was just like, really disheartening should like try to gather any information. So 2017, I my world kind of Crumbled in that realm. And so, I went off and did stood missions, and that is kind of where my eyes were open to. Like, just tell like judgmental. As I said, was how like guarded they were with what their rules with will see what you did there, how you get it? And so like, yeah, and I won't say that the mission school, I went to was perfect but I will say the Those rules were not there like they were like I was able to go see my grandma. Every Sunday, I was able to go on a group setting Christians are group setting but we want to hang out with the guys like guys and girls were allowed to hang out. Like it was not like your Jezebel, he's going to hell because you made eye contact with this way. Speaker 1 Yeah. So so do you feel like SES girl was unreasonably sexually charged? Speaker 2 Yes. Yes. It was really weird, like, looking back on it. I was like there is no reason. For that, like, there were a bunch of like, I guess at the time, like anywhere between 18 to like, when it's like, young people and taking 25 girls, like, that's literally what we're going to do. We're going to be like sexually charged by the opposite sex or same things and all they did in this context all they did was try to keep men and women apart and it was really bigger than looking back on. It was like that was like kind Speaker 1 of weird. Yeah. No I agree. There was a, you know, as you know I went Through some of the conversion therapy. And I don't want to say too much about myself here because this is for you. But, you know, there was the conversion therapy aspect of it. And I remember being told by staff, you know, I came to them. I was like, I'm noticing a brother and there were like, oh, you just go ahead and struggle honey. Like, you know, so just just the unbalanced. Yes, of it. Is that a word? I'm not sure. Speaker 2 But literally, I didn't even know that they were making. Well, do this like this? This is all new to me that they're Associated conversion therapy. First of all, who had a license to do this? No one thought, that this should even be a thing in the world, but second of all look like who have license to do this and why were you doing this? And I'm so sorry that you had to do that. I had no idea this was going Speaker 1 on, it's all good. You know, I've I went to real therapy and I've recovered so it's all good now. No, apologies. Needed. But but yeah, it just seemed like the focus was just unreasonably on sex all the time. Speaker 2 Yeah, it really was. It was like that was the focus of the leaders so that was the focus that we had. And like sometimes it was like, I'm not even thinking about these things, but was okay, I guess we're talking about it for the next three weeks in our biblical studies class. Speaker 1 Yeah, I remember those those Kim. Brody, sessions were brutal. Speaker 2 Oh my gosh. Speaker 1 So I believe it was once a month. We had a session where all the girls would get together. All the guys would get together and we would talk about like we were talking about sex we would talk about masturbation, we would talk about, just a plethora of totally inappropriate things. That a group of young, women probably shouldn't be talking about if they're under this microscope, you Speaker 2 know. Not supposed to be talking about it, like it's okay if we talk about it with the leaders, I remember, no, I remember one time, and I don't know if this is like you can cut this out if you think it's bad. But One time, one of the girls I'm going to save. It was obviously, but what are the leaders? Someone asked a question like is masturbation, okay? And they were like, well, it's okay as long as you're not thinking about any person while you're doing it and she's like, and I just don't think that's possible. And I was like, oh my God, Speaker 1 I remember that. I remember that. Yeah. Also the they're probably gonna come after me for saying this but on the special super top secret Retreat that we went on how there was the the long Speaker 2 awake. Speaker 1 I'm gonna okay. The long-awaited sex talk that everyone was so excited to have at the end of the year. Do you remember that one? Speaker 2 It got Speaker 1 so graphic. I had to leave and I went and sat in the jacuzzi by Speaker 2 myself. It's really I wish I would have known that. I would have joined You're dating but like that's first year. It was for was like, all right, Speaker 1 cool deer in headlights terrifying. Absolutely terrifying. Speaker 2 But then also, after they had already made a big fuss about. Like, if you had sex before I see you sound like, blah, blah, blah, you're terrible, human being and you need to ask God for forgiveness like and then they're like and now we're going to talk about Speaker 1 sex, we have that they would do it in the same. Take it was like You know? There's no condemnation if you've messed up. There's, there's no shame but also shame. Speaker 2 Yes. And there was and I class someone will they were in a relationship with somebody and they got kicked out for it and we weren't allowed to. I was like really close to her and I was allowed to talk to her anymore. Speaker 1 So they basically exiled her is what you're saying, Speaker 2 yes, and that, and that continue to happen and he took it was like a woman apparently, If you got kicked out of us yourself, no one was allowed to talk to you. Like how ridiculous is that? Speaker 1 Yeah, that's pretty bad. That is, but that's I feel like that's that's kind of the way that they operate. You know? If you get kicked out, it's like once family always family, we still love you. But from a way far away distance, Speaker 2 like how do I justify that? You know that I've never fully understood that? How do you justify saying, what always family? But if you do something wrong like know, We're not talking to you and we're like looking the other way, but I just don't understand. There's like bass bass, how they put biblical principles so deeply rooted in everything that they teach that doesn't make sense to mean. It's never thought. Well, with me ever, Speaker 1 I completely agree. Yeah, I think I'm so glad that I didn't experience that personally. Like, I was never personally exiled, From the ocsl family. And I always felt very welcome but I saw the way that they treated, some of our former classmates, like there were a few classmates who wanted to hang out with First Years, you know, and they would come over and they would hang out and I am not kidding you. The way that staff handled this one in particular they made me feel physically and emotionally afraid of this person and I had to reach out to them and apologize. Eyes for just X Community excommunicating them because that wasn't my decision but I still went with it. So I still had to own it, you know. Speaker 2 Yeah. Yeah. That was it definitely made you feel like you. Like, we're like doing the right thing. If you're doing what staff told you to do, and I do and it wasn't. Okay. And that should have never happened in. Yeah, I agree with you, they're definitely situation so you kind of just went along but staff said and it was just like, okay but like why? And they're like, whoa because this is family in your like okay, so after a Speaker 1 wash so in light of recent events, you know, SC SL has announced that its closing and oh, yeah, a lot has transpired. We don't have to get into all of it if you're not up for it, that's fine. But how do you feel Knowing that family is such a Cornerstone and core value of s ESL. I mean, Cambogia literally means Brothers and Sisters of the heart. How do you feel like they are putting that into action? Now that it's closing. Speaker 2 Oh, they've gone radio, silent. And I need not go into details of like, why? That is really that will come out when it comes out. but they've gone radio silent, when they're actually is Answers that need to be had like I guess like for us it was like if we got trouble early just talk about something ban staff's office. Now let's talk about it. Let's discuss it and going somewhere, all alumni, so it's like whatever but I think I think out of respect for the alumni out of this respect for the money, we paid out of the tears, we shed out of the life, we gave to them like it would be a pretty respectful for them to just like be able to To give us something to go off of. And I feel like, I feel like since since April it's just been, just been radio Silence from them and kind of ignoring some of the questions that alumni are asking. And Speaker 1 yeah, no, I completely agree. I don't know if you remember, I'm sure you do but we had several First Years in our class that were quote-unquote asked to leave and yeah that following day we would have a meeting and connection or whatever it was called and The the leaders would come to us and say, in a big group, this person is no longer going to stay with us. We love them. We wish them the best. They're always family. But they did this. This this. This and this like, they showed their dirty laundry. Yeah. We Speaker 2 just, like not. Okay. And also, like, reverse reverse the tables, I flip the table around like, Speaker 1 why isn't that isn't Done now. Speaker 2 Yeah, like what? Like if it were then cover us cover us? Cover us cover us. You. So cover your family but then they didn't do that in that aspect. I remember one of my one of my friends did get kicked out or she was in the process of getting kicked out. I got called into the director's office and they basically were like screaming and yelling at me and some other girl, because we knew information about this whole situation that had gone down. And I was like Actually, I have no idea what was going on, but like he did not believe me. And I'm like, crying. Because I'm like, literally, I had no idea what was going on and he's like, no, you knew you knew. Why didn't you tell anybody? This is family, this is family. And then, right after that, I had to go and to this meeting and I'm crying. And then that's when he does that whole big thing where he's like, we're letting this person go because they did this. This and this and I'm saying you're his crying. Everyone knows, I was just a thought. Office, like it was just a bad situation all in all handles. Well, so it Speaker 1 seems like the family is really only used when it's convenient for them and when they're on Speaker 2 top it's family is subjected to. If you are on the same page has them if you are going to believe what they believe and if you are going to cover their backs while also, Doing exactly as they Speaker 1 say. But I wasn't that, I'm sorry to interrupt you, but isn't that exactly the opposite of what Jesus did for us? Speaker 2 Exactly. Speaker 1 Exactly. You covered our backs, while his was Speaker 2 whipped, right. Speaker 1 I know. So, that's that. That doesn't really add up. Speaker 2 It doesn't like, show, Christ's love or affection, whatsoever. It doesn't, it doesn't line up with what they would teach I think, I guess I'll lose my mind. Is why did he know? Question that while we were there, I feel like later on. Like in these later classes look like I think in my husband's cost even like they were situations where students are like no that's actually not. Okay. And I'm like, kudos to you guys. That's amazing. But like how great washer me how? It's like just like not. Okay. Was our class and the classes before us that just really oh yeah, that makes sense like let's just ostracize someone and doing the name of Jesus. Like what? No, I Speaker 1 can't. We agree. I completely agree and I think that it was they at the beginning it felt like such a warm and safe and inviting environment you know like you felt like you could be vulnerable but as soon as it were I'm making a face right now. I just realized that you can't see Speaker 2 it. Can you win in to ask yourselves like a breath of fresh? Air was like all these things you wanted to talk about the wanted to like have have the spiritual connections with people. Like you wanted to vote devote your life to God. You wanted to lay down your life for for the Lord. The and it felt like the safe space to be able to do that because all these other people wanted to do it with you. And I think that was the hook and bait, like I think that's what like hooked us as like, now we've dug this, we're vulnerable, you have us. And so I think we just we just listen to whatever they said and and I think just as in Christianity as a whole I think that's kind of is what ends up happening. And and I don't know that I go back and forth with us because I'm like, like I feel like we're all deceived to to an extent. And I feel like even stop is to see just within their own religion. So I don't even know that I have full like ability to like bullying them. I mean, I am so about some things for sure, for sure. But I would say I guess when you're so wrapped up in something and you just don't it ever, take your give yourself an opportunity to step back and ask some tough questions to yourself in the Lord, whatever that will look like for you. But like you're not able to just like hey why do I leave this? Like like I just I don't know. Like it's like hard because I think about the second years at their nearest like and I'm like, well, they were just doing their jobs. They were spray wash like the rest of us. So I don't know, I wanted first year and I'm thankful for it, but I didn't have to experience all that Speaker 1 other crap. Yes, and I'm thankful to, you know, I think that for me personally, the way that I was able to kind of I don't want to say forgive because I don't even feel like they needed forgiveness, you know, for me. I really wasn't that bitter towards them, but one of the things for me, I had to realize that This is all I know. Yeah. You know, and, and they have been in the same culture for longer much longer than we have, and they genuinely believed that some of these teachings. And some of these instructions, they were giving us were from the Lord. And they were okay. And, you know, we know now that there were a lot that work, but I know that their heart for me specifically was They wanted to see me do well. They wanted to see me Thrive and marry a man bless the Lord and you she's right it. Tried it, then there it was genuine. You know, it was genuine to an exact, but that's just me, personally, I feel like some of the other instructions that they've given other first years were not so much more selfishly motivated motivated than then they'll. Like to Speaker 2 admit yeah, yeah, I agree with you in that aspect of I guess. Like, for me I just like some of those, some of the stuff I want, they all the Sabbath. Some of us that was so intellectual that I was just like, how do you not get to a place where you don't question why, you're teaching the things that you're teaching? And that's like where I like have like the pendulum. That's the wrong word where you're like, balancing stuff out like, Speaker 1 I got you. Speaker 2 Yeah, okay. Well the good thing where it's like, yeah I have empathy for staff because that guy, hey, they've been doing this forever. They genuinely believe this and like we've all been there and been in it. So you know how easy it is to just generally really something with your core. But then we've also been on the other side where we're like no, I'm going to open my hands to this and I'm going to just like be like I don't believe any of this until I figure out why I believe it. And I just don't know how you go through your whole life not doing that, you Speaker 1 know. Yeah, no, I completely understand. I think that questioning your faith in questioning. Your teachings is a sign of maturity, honestly? Yeah. So how has this e is L shaped your faith and your religion? Do you believe that its had a negative or a positive impact or just kind of in the middle? It Speaker 2 question. Um, thanks wise. I say, Think it helped me. God, I don't know. I would say SC SL was a great place for me to find friends, Speaker 1 hospice. Speaker 2 I feel like there were some aspects of it. I could take away. I see that the problem is right now. I have no idea what I believe in that. There's no point in time. So I don't know how to answer a question. That's okay. But I'll say like, Was it - sure in some aspects. It was there's definitely some - - teachings that I was like not on board with this or our baby was then but not so much now but I think that's a ton. I was like just happy to be in a place where I was learning something new and that's what I say. Self felt like King of the times I was learning something new and granted. It wasn't Great. But at the time, I was 18. Like I was amazing. That was fun and it was exciting. It was thrilling. Yeah. I felt like the smartest biblical scholar on the Speaker 1 planet. Yeah, that's good. So I can imagine, I can imagine. So anyway, um, that that being said, do you feel like there were any other positive things to come out of your SEO still experience other than good friendships? Speaker 2 Honestly. No, I can't say that. There was I will honestly say like at the end of the day, there were some amazing friendships that I still have. Like I have people that would probably still defend us DSL that, I'm very close with and love and and I'm okay to have disagreements with and I think that's the beauty of life is to be able to be like, I don't agree with everything with you but like, I mean, I'm one of my best friend's is on staff. So like I think just that speaks Names of like you know you can just agree with someone and still be friends with them. And I think I think that's where I'm at in life right now is like, I don't know, I don't agree with everybody. I know I'm not on the same page with everybody. Like I'm like, me and survival infallible and I think if people were to hear me say that, like if people do people who know me, they'd be like, what's wrong with Aspen like, what's going on? And I'm just Like just like living life trying to figure things out and I think that's that's what I got out of it. At the end of the day, I have these friends but no matter what like they're going to do my friends. Like maybe we don't talk every day but like, I don't know. I just like specifically like you and I like running. We go way back. You know, you know saying you've got there. We have the Speaker 1 same youth pastor and he's blocked on both of our social media accounts. Speaker 2 Little bit like it's just like it's fun and exciting to know that like it that you have that you can have pain someone. Oh my God, I said pink, I've been in the workforce too much. You can like message someone or text them area and kind of just be like hey that's just what's going on? Maybe like I'm gonna spot anyways my whole point is like my answer. That question is I got friends out of us ESL and that's kind of the end all, be all of it. Because at the end of the I don't talk to staff. Like they're not my friends, like I won't scratch that. I'm going to say that that will say who it is sentiment the fun Speaker 1 friends. Yeah. Yeah I think that was a great thing that came out of it for me as well. You know? Yeah. Several were in my wedding and I hope they last a lifetime I really do. Yeah. I think it goes more into the trauma. Bonding we were all a little traumatized there at some point I wanted to ask you one more thing How did you raise your money to be able to go to SC SL because I believe our cost was around. Eight grand our first year? Speaker 2 Yeah, girl was so fun story so I did, I didn't have a car at this point in time because I was I would had epilepsy so I couldn't drive for that. First year, excited. Anyways, I don't think so I couldn't drive. So I had to get a job that was close to where we lived in the apartments and I got a job, it Taco Bell. Which it that pay the bills. No, I did not and funny story about that is I actually got in trouble for walking to work. Like it was across the street, from where we lived. And I was told that I had to get a ride because I was not allowed to walk and I thought that was the dumbest thing in the world. Anyways, how I rang some money is that I actually had a dad had two jobs, but one of my dad's that was illegally. My dad. Had died and the state gives you money for that. You did not know. So, all of that money went towards paying my tuition, Speaker 1 so that's like your inheritance Speaker 2 essentially. Yeah, so that was that in literally the month of sasl ended. That's when like it, the money stopped coming in and was like, and tell you what? Like, you're like, 19 and a half or something. I don't know. Something weird law. And so I, yeah, that's where all that money went and it was a lot of money, I forgot. Speaker 1 Wow, and I remember to you doing some fundraisers, I believe we were on the NASCAR from those are together Speaker 2 to pay for anything if I had not done the fundraisers as well. Yeah, so I did the NASCAR I did America's Mark and I did one last one because I was like, fully expecting to come back for a second year. So it's like walk with this money towards my second year, I had to give all of that money breaking away. Speaker 1 They would let you keep what you Speaker 2 earned. Now, they were like, you can donate it to someone else and I was like, Speaker 1 alright, so those were essentially unpaid wages. Speaker 2 Yes, exactly. That's exactly what it was. It was something we just else now that I think about it. Yeah. Speaker 1 Well, yeah, I mean, you worked those hours and I was open to someone else. Yeah. And you didn't even have the opportunity to take it yourself. Speaker 2 Yeah. And this is that sometimes were hard, they were not easy. Like, NASCAR, I know you were on it. Speaker 1 It, my legs were bleeding at the end of Speaker 2 NASCAR. Oh my gosh. And I, we almost got like stolen like one time. There's just a lot of chaos that happen and that plays. And they I remember them saying that okay, we don't need as many people who would like to leave and I was like I'm done on a literally done. Please send me home? Yeah, Speaker 1 so I mean there was there were state fair to and state fair, Speaker 2 I got sick or state fair so I didn't have to do Speaker 1 it. Well, that's good because One else, who works a fair? It was a fundraiser for the program, so we would go, we would work 10, 12 hour shifts, we would have peanut butter and jelly sandwiches, or maybe spaghetti or maybe Little Caesars Pizza. If there was a donation from someone in the church but other than that, we didn't get to keep any of the money that we made. It was it all of that hard work went directly to paying bills for SES L. Do you remember that? Speaker 2 Yes. And I remember the ending the story and being like, well, and other like Masters commission's, I said that with air quotes of my fingers, we didn't see that another Masters, commission's their slave labor, and they're not allowed to work, and they're not, and they do everything abla. And that was kind of how they were. Like, I guess just to find it. And I, I'm just like, we could have just worked to pay their tuition like every other college student, I don't know, or just like, had an accredited college You went and then we could have had a Spur Line around. Yes, no slave labor. That's what that was, but I got sick. So I got sent home. I wasn't allowed to beat us. He saw, I had to literally go to my mom's house with thankfully lived in the same city. Speaker 1 Really? When I see, they wouldn't let you stay while you were sick. Speaker 2 I wasn't allowed to be home alone in the apartment you Speaker 1 were. Speaker 2 Wow. Yeah. So they were like I'm can you get your mom to come? Pick you up? And I said, okay, Speaker 1 how do I not remember? That that's crazy Speaker 2 because it was a chaotic Time. Come on, let's be fair. I mean, he's sleeping. Speaker 1 Yeah, it was, I NASCAR was a blur for me, the brother me. Not NASCAR, I'm sorry, State Fair. Yes, I remember having a woman come in half naked and puking and having my God, quote assigned brother go in and clean it up for me. He was the Speaker 2 best. Oh, that's sweet. Speaker 1 And he actually made it so much fun. And but at the same time, we weren't getting paid to be there. So I was just contemplating My Life Choices until last night, you know, I don't get me wrong. Like, you know, I am a drummer and I have voluntarily drummed for churches, for years and never gotten paid. CLA was the only church that ever paid me to play. Did he pay you? Oh, yeah. Speaker 2 I was so curious about that because I think they pay people. That's actually Very interesting. You want to side this conversation that I'm quiet questions. I'm gonna ask, but I know that there's another church in town that pays really. Well, I think NewSpring, they play really well. And I was like, well, I don't think there's a one in case anybody but I had a specific reason why I was saying this. But anyways, but table that conversation, Speaker 1 okay? But yeah, you know, so I understand being in service to Or an organization, you know, you want, you believe in it, you want to donate your time and your resources to it. That's totally understandable. But at the same time, where do you draw the line between that and unpaid labor? Yeah, exactly. I think State Fair was the line Speaker 2 save, there was a line, all all of those family fundraisers with the line. Yeah, I don't know. It was is a little insane and then just kind of joke. Also toast. Like at the end of the day, they were running their schools a business and so it's like well, it's a business. Like, how do you justify this? You Speaker 1 know, that is a very good point on paper, it was a Speaker 2 business. So I don't understand how all of that works. And I just surely if it was audited, it was allowed to be audited. Like, I don't think that would have flown. I think that if there Speaker 1 was a lawsuit involved that A lot of people would be getting a lot Speaker 2 of money. Pam, paid wages. Speaker 1 Well, as when let's go ahead and bring it to a close today. I wanted to give you an opportunity. Is there anything that else that you want our listeners to know or anything that you wanted to Speaker 2 share? Yeah, I would say, I would love for this off this this the space to be an open dialogue for people who had an experience that experiences like many experiences, like all of those categories just people too. Have an open dialogue. Talk discuss a situation. Always love to hear from from past staff as well. To just kind of like, kind of go over like, okay, like what's assess the situation, kind of, you know, like the scientific method, you Speaker 1 know Speaker 2 what, let's just see what happens, but I think of the day I love everybody, I love again. The people of SC SL, I say that lightning because I'm still wrestling through feelings. Then I went to thousand graduate 2012, so it's been a hot minute, but as of recent events, it's kind of bubbled up in me. But yeah, yeah, I would love for this to not be something that we're just like. Hating on, on necessarily the people that maybe the institution, the institution could use a little hate all say that II would Speaker 1 agree. I think Christianity as a whole case, a little hate. It makes us better. All right. Well Aspen, thank you so much for coming on the show today and if you are listening and you want to share your story, please hit me up. My name is Anna. You can message me on Facebook. And I will be happy to take you on as a guest and just talk about your experience, whether it like Aspen said, it's good or bad, it's welcome here. Thank you, guys so much for tuning in and I hope you have a wonderful evening.