Here For It All: Motherhood, Love & Legacy with Mariah Carey

Today I'm sitting down with a living legend. She is the best-selling female artist of all time, five Grammys, over 200 million albums sold, 10 American Music Awards, and three Guinness World Records. Plus, she was Billboard's Artist of the Decade and an inductee into the Songwriters Hall of Fame. She is the elusive Shintoos, the queen of Christmas, and the moment, Mariah Carey. She's out with her first full-length studio album in seven years called Here For It All. Let me tell you, it was worth the wait. We have lots to get into with Mariah, so let's not waste another minute because baby, this is Kiki Palmer. This episode is presented in partnership with Airbnb, where the best end of summer memories are made with your closest friends. Now, let's get on with the show. Mariah, the icon, the forever moment. I don't even really know what to say. I'm so happy and I'm so thankful that you're here with me. This is Kiki Palmer. This is like a moment to remember. And I'm going to be remembering a moment with this is baby. This is Kiki Palmer forever. Oh, my gosh. Well, I'm so excited because you did the pre-show pull up questionnaire. Yes. I'm excited to see what you're coming with. So I was a little with that, but. OK, let's see why. Let's see why I was a little. OK, today, I'm giving it girl with a side of pow. I mean, that's period. That's what we accept and expect at every moment with you. It girl with a side of pow. That's that Aries fire energy. That's that side of pow that brings it. Today's mood in one word, sleepy. I mean, divas get tired. Sleepy. Working. I'm a night person. Like, I'm not. What time would you say you get up when you don't have anything to do? Hmm. Like five. 5:00 p.m. Woo. That's why you're so beautiful, because you get all that rest. Oh, well, I love you for saying that. I need to get more rest. Oh, you're doing great. Oh, OK. What did you listen to on the ride here? This is like, I mean, an amazing answer. Rest in peace, Prince. Oh, my gosh. We love Prince. What's your favorite Prince record? If you have one. Album or song? Album. Purple Rain. So good. And, you know, we got the purple curtains. Yes, that's why I'm like loving. OK, one thing that instantly makes you laugh. This made me laugh because this makes everybody laugh. The video of Justin Bieber talking about it's not clocking to you that I'm standing on business. Oh, my God. Is that video? It's not that video because I was talking about James Brown and the Donkushin video. Girl, I'm on the floor. I literally saw JB involve Justin Bieber, not clocking to you. I figured I'd be handing it to you and reading it to you, so that's a good one, though. It's a classic. Now, what is this video of James Brown? What does he do? He's talking on was it CNN? Was it one of like a news situation? And he's talking about he's going on tour, but he was having problems with his wife. So, yeah, it was a whole thing. He was giving all the tea on the morning show. Well, I don't know. He was being hilarious. You just got to watch it. OK. And then the last screenshot of your phone. No deleting my kids, my kids, twins. I told you I have twin siblings. Yes, they're crazy. My mom's a twin. My dad's a twin. And they had twins. And you lucky you're not a twin. Girl, because if you had two kinkies, it would be too much. There's not enough room on this planet for the personality that'd be coming out. Are they a lot alike, your twins? They have their own personalities. Yeah. Yeah. Close or go through phases. They go through phases. Yeah. Isn't that funny? Yeah. Well, my twins are in a good place. They're bullying everybody. Oh. Yeah, it's crazy. They gang up on everybody, including me. It's a terrible thing. It's terrible time. I'm so happy that you're here. Thank you for answering these questions. I mean, what's been going on in your life lately? What would you describe this era of your life? How long are we thinking an era is? Because I don't acknowledge time, so I don't know. By the way, was that your whole life? Or did you one day decide time didn't need to be a focal point? I think that was when I was like 18, I decided that. Because I cried on my 18th birthday. Why? What happened? And I didn't want to have birthdays anymore. Nothing happened, but I was waiting to get my record deal. And I was just-- that was it. Wow. So you were like, time is no longer meaningful, and now we just have vibes. We just have moods. We just have vibes. OK, so without the thought of time, how would you express this new project, your new project, Here For It All? What is that era? It's in the moment. It's in the moment. The moments that we're having. It's in the moments. Yeah. It really is, if you think about it. Yeah. It is in the moments, but then it's like, where has time left us? Like, how do I know when I'm showing up, when I'm showing up? When do I have a deadline? You'll be late. I'm howling. OK, so one word to define your vibe, would you say, right now? Different than any of your other vibes or eras of moments in time. I think it's like a mixture of all of those moments in time, putting them together, and kind of just like-- like just emanating what that feels like. So you grew up in Long Island. Eh. Now, what does that mean? I had a tough time growing up. What would you say was the toughest thing about growing up there? Just maybe some of the kids and the people that were around. Being biracial. I know you've spoken about that before. Yeah, and I wrote about it in my book. Yes, which I have. Did you actually read it? I did. Really? Yes. Hey. What was the hardest part about writing that book and kind of going back to those earlier times in your life? Things that people may not really know about you? Yeah, I mean, it wasn't-- I wasn't like, oh, I'm scared for people to know. I wanted people to know, because then people would stop asking me, like, you know, stuff that, to me, is just, like, obvious. But that's obvious, because that's the way I grew up. I grew up around people that didn't accept me because of being biracial. And things that happened that were upsetting, to say the least. You say and close my eyes, I was a wayward child with the weight of the world that I held deep inside. Life was a winding road, and I learned many things that little ones shouldn't know. And I really relate to that. I'm curious for you, because I definitely think it's this way for me. Like, how was music or your artistry a way to either explore or transmute some of those difficult things? Well, I always knew, like, this sounds, whatever, very arrogant, but I'm just telling the truth. I always knew from the time I was a little, little girl that I was going to make it. I just believed it. And my mother actually told me, you know, don't say if I make it, say when I make it. And so I took that advice. And I just always believed, like, you know, strong. Strongly believed. Yeah. How did you find writing? Because I think that's one of the, I mean, not only do you have an incredible voice, but you've always been an incredibly gifted writer. Was that something that you did before you started doing music, poetry, journaling, or how did writing find you? I started with poetry when I was, like, six years old. I have the, it's on the back cover of, where is it? It's on the cover of either one of my albums or, it's not the back cover of the book, but it's a picture that I drew. And I was, I was like, I think like six years old and it's just me with little, what are those called? Pigtails. And just like in, in the flowers and at the top of it, it says me, period. I am Mariah. And that's my first bit of poetry and art. Do you have a favorite song that you've written? Well, you mentioned "Close My Eyes" before and not everybody knows that song. So thank you. I love that song because it, it's really telling a story sequentially, like, you know, I'm explaining what has happened. Like at that point in my life, that was the Butterfly album. So yeah. Yeah. So that became like my way of, of releasing. Yeah. One of my favorites from you is "Breakdown." I love "Breakdown." I love that song so much because there's something about it when I'm listening to it that makes me feel empowered in the breakdown. Does that make sense? Like we're talking, it feels heavy and there's something heavy that's happening and going on, but something about it feels like I feel empowered to release. Yes. Yes. What was happening in your life when you wrote that song and how did you decide to put bone thugs on it? I was releasing. I was. I'm falling. I want to know what the, I can only imagine what the song is going to sound like. I want to know what the song is going to sound like. I want to know what the, I can only imagine what the vibe is for you in the studio. Is it different every time when you're releasing? um but that moment with Bone Thugs was incredible like so good there's a lot of moments happening here and there you know greenery was coming out okay we had to set the vibe they definitely set the vibe and um it was it was so great being with them oh my gosh I can only imagine what it would have been like being in that room in that era yeah very special time and you you are a big part of what made it so special for all of us at 18 this is crazy to me because we always hear these stories about as artists you know not knowing the value of your work but at 18 for you you were offered five thousand dollars for all the songs you had written yes and you said no um what how did you know to do that then because obviously after that point you still had to deal with crazy industry stuff mm-hmm but that was a pretty big thing for you to know even then yeah well I just had seen like some documentaries and a couple of things and saw that it was like don't sell your publishing like that yeah it made a very big point of that like it happened to even the Beatles um so I was like wow I don't want that to happen to me because I believe in my songs and that's what I'm you know gonna be that's gonna be my what I have to offer to the world yeah you know so um I just I just kept going so when you did finally obviously get you know your your big deal and I mean pretty much took over the 90s there was still things you were up against in terms of having to make your image palatable um one of my favorite uh clips of you is when you I wish I could remember the exact year but you're winning an award and this is obviously later after a lot of transitions for you and you were saying it feels so good to finally be able to be myself um so I want to know that journey leading up to that like what it was that wasn't being yourself and how was that even presented to you at that age where I mean how did they tell you hey tamper this down or don't be this don't do that yeah well they definitely did that um but yeah yeah they did but I'm trying to think of the exact moment that you're talking about and if did I have like straight straight 1999 billboard awards you were winning the award and the speech was so remarkable you were giving you were so gracious to your fans it was so honest and you were you seemed so happy and you seemed so free and what it was interesting to me was like damn I wonder what she felt like before because you had already been a star for many years by that point yeah it what I felt like before was I was in a very um what's the word for the type of relationship controlling yeah and so I I dealt with that and you know wished I could fly away I couldn't it was really difficult to live in that world how did you get the courage and how did you get the the business savvy to get out of all that stuff with Tommy Mottola and what was that label at that time CBS Sony with Sony yeah how did you I mean that was tough and that was everything your success was tied to that um so I mean what were those steps how did you do that it was not easy I was scared a lot of the time I didn't know what was going to happen um you never know who to trust and the thing is if he would have just let me be me and every now and then go to a friend's house or go you know to a spa um I would have stayed but that wasn't the plan and do you think it was all about money you know I never thought that but I probably it probably was just the ability to control somebody you can control the money you can control what the they're bringing in the money you know not that he didn't have his own stuff before that but when someone's a new you know young artist and everything and they're writing their songs and making these albums for a huge company you know it the control levels are pretty difficult how did you change meaning what what changed in you from that girl in the beginning that felt okay this is this you know I'm going with the flow and I trust this person and I'm having this success even though so much of it feels away from me too I've got to make a change what was that switch internally hmm it was it a moment it was a moment and it was a lot of moments that came together yeah um and it was a lot of moments that came together and it was a lot of moments that came you know I did the best I could with the whole thing it's not an easy road yeah so when did you start to feel like success wasn't something that was just happening to you or for you but something that you felt like you had an active role in that you you felt like okay I'm I can enjoy this in full yeah well that's probably around the album butterfly which was 98 yes 98 yeah yeah so um that was that was like a big lift you know up to the sky just being able to write my own songs the way I wanted to write them that's the era that I wrote breakdown and all that all those songs I finally felt like okay I'm me ah you know I was so surprised when I was also going through things like I know that you did we belong together with Jermaine Dupri but I didn't know he also did always be my baby yes what that was the first song that you wrote for Jermaine Dupri what was the first song we wrote together girl yes that is just too much what is it about you guys like y'all makes the most incredible like always been my baby like girl what and we did a lot of others too as well what was it like what do you think the vibe or the reason is why you guys had such or have such great chemistry together with music he's Jermaine is like you know writing songs with if you had a cool brother and someone that's just you know your your true friend that's what JD is like to me I love him so much and then he dropped a crazy bomb talking to grammy.com saying that you guys recorded we belong together in that hour it was pretty fast girl that is absolutely insane did you ever you know being the voice being someone that is always like was there ever any moment in your life where that was pressureful just the expectations that people had knowing of knowing your gift every moment is pressure full honey I don't care what the pumpkin spice industry says summer ain't over just yet and let me tell you I had the vision of the perfect late summer getaway that would make earth wind and fire proud I can already see it now and I'm dancing in a spacious Airbnb living room surrounded by my crew belting out do you remember because trust me this is a memory in the making with all the back-to-school chaos sometimes you need a breather last year I booked a guest favorite for a quick family escape we had bedrooms for days a kitchen big enough for our chopped leftover addition competitions and the kids could do their schoolwork without feeling like they were in detention if you're looking for that last taste of summer or a cozy fall retreat check out Airbnb guest favorites I mean seriously these are the cream of the crop y'all perfect for family trips or friend getaways you get more space privacy and locations that will make your Instagram followers green with envy whether you're chasing the last rays of summer or embracing the pumpkin everything Airbnb has a spot for you after a while it becomes so you know people are like do the thing and it's the thing you know what I mean like mm-hmm how did you handle that you know over you know your entire career that level of expectation is a pretty big level of expectation but you know you got to just go through it and be yourself and do whatever you can to calm down and get through whatever your moment is that you're having yeah yeah so we were talking about butterfly but also the emancipation of Mimi is another era and moment that it just marks an evolution for you why do you think intervention is so I didn't want to say important but it's it's something that you do very well thank you is it something that you're actively doing uh in terms of your career is it also just really a reflection of your life I think it's just a reflection of my life it's it's interesting because I never thought I was that type of person that did those recreating things other artists that I've seen you know definitely they do that they're in the era of pink dresses and the you know era of whatever but pink dresses are the time of your life it's the time of your life the time of your life I think pink dresses was just an example that wasn't pointed at anybody you mean you're talking about no I'm howling purple dresses um no but I mean like I didn't do it on purpose right you know I mean now I'm more conscious of it like okay let's do this this time around let's do you know a couple different covers and make it interesting but yeah before I always tried to keep it simple you know and just tell your truth I suppose yeah yeah through the music well you're speaking up through the music you're here for a very exciting reason you're here getting ready for this new project, Here For It All, that's coming out September 26th. Congratulations. Thank you. I mean, this is a huge treat for us that I don't even know we deserve. It's been, what, seven years since your last project? Yes. What made you say, now let me throw them a bone? You know what it was? I started making songs, writing songs and recording songs, and then I would have, like, four new songs, which really isn't even close to enough for an album. Maybe some people think it is, but I just knew I needed to do, like, ten songs at least and whatever. And then I said, this should be an album. Let's just do an album. Yeah. And we did. What does Here For It All mean to you? Here For It All is the last song on my album, Here For It All, and I decided to name the project after that song because it's, to me, it's definitely the best song on the album. I mean, depending on what you like or whatever, but for me personally, it's the best song on the album, and it's very real. Is there a lyric or a section in that song or the album that you think epitomizes it all? It really goes from the beginning to the end, and you just got to listen to it. And it's a very, the ending is kind of like, I don't want to give away all the little things, but it's very much like, you know, it goes into kind of like a gospel moment and different moments. It's kind of like Fly Like a Bird-esque, but with other songs in the front. Yes. I can't wait to get into that because I'm definitely loving Type Dangerous. Oh, thank you. It's giving everything we need. We have the Eric B. is the president sample, which is dope. What made you want to lead with that? I think everybody that was involved with the project was just like, let's do this, and it just felt like, you know, felt like me. I'm a New Yorker. What can you say? And I love the video. The video has that fun, that camp. Yes. That I love, love when you get into that. You know what I mean? Because it's such an awareness. You have such an awareness around yourself, and I'm wondering when did that become a thing for you to lean into? When did you realize, okay, like, people have this idea of me. I'm this diva or this thing. Well, let me actually, like, lean into the elusive chanteuse. Yes. Well, before they called me the elusive chanteuse, I was doing, what do you call it, when you're just kind of, like, making jokes and doing whatever. I was just being myself, like the self that nobody really knows in the public. I was just, like, joking around, and we ended up doing the honey video where I was speaking Spanish and, you know, running away from the bad guys. I feel like that video was $40 million. That video was a lot of money. Yes. OMG. Now, well, let's talk about some of the collaborations because you've been working a lot with my guy, Anderson Paak. I love Anderson Paak. I mean, what about him? I mean, how long have you known him? Was it for this project, or have you guys always been friends and just decided to, hey, let's collaborate on this? This was for this project. I know him from now. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Now. Knowing from now. This moment, no timeline. What is it about him you think that made you guys collab so well this time? I just felt that his style of music would really blend well with mine. Yeah. I see you guys hold hands a lot. Well, you know, that's how we do. Maybe there's a little love there outside of music. Maybe a little love. Who knows? Do you have a type? Type dangerous. What does it take for a guy to get Mariah Tate? What does it take to take them seriously? I don't know. They just have to be a cool person and, you know, understand that I'm just a regular person that has jokes and moments and doesn't acknowledge time. I mean, that has to be so. I mean, I'm not you, and even I as, you know, the perceptions that come with being an entertainer, it can make it so hard to find a way to have grounded moments. I mean, you're a cultural icon. Like, you know, there's not a world that really I remember that I didn't know you. I remember being a kid and my sister having a VHS tape. She's also a huge fan. She's here watching. Hey, L'Oreal. Hey. We watched this tape of all of your performances and all of your interviews. I don't know what this tape was, but we would watch it, like, every single day. It was called The First Vision. Yes! Yes! Yay, I knew something of my own. No, no, girl. Wait a minute. That was a. That was a big deal. That was such a brilliant. What made you put that together? Because that was such a brilliant thing for the fans. Oh, it really was for the fans, but I'm going to give it up to the label from back then, the first label. They wanted to do it. So smart. And that was their thing, and I did it. Girl, we watched it all the time. And so when you have that kind of impact, like, how do you create a grounded world for yourself where people aren't doing that? Yeah. I don't know. You would know just as much as I know. I mean, after a while, it gets pretty impossible. You kind of just. Especially with dating, it becomes very difficult, I'll honestly say, for myself, because there's a gender. There's, like, gender norms, and then there's double standards, where it's like, no matter what as a woman, you know, your success is always going to be an overshadowing, even if that man is. You know, but men, they can be super successful, and they can be. I mean, who shot John? And no one cares, and it's never a thing. Like, no one's thinking of it or measuring them against them. But as a woman, when you're very successful, it's almost as if no one can measure up. Right. Even if they do to you, they can't to themselves. Mm-hmm. I mean, how did you. Have you lived through that? Because it's hard for me. I've lived through it, kind of, with different people who shall remain nameless, and, you know, you just got to, like, hold on tight and get through it, you know? I don't really know how I do that, but that's something that I do. I'm not really focused on other stuff, like, you know, which guy am I going to be with this day, or who, you know, I'm just not that person. I'm a very kind of shy person, so. Yeah. Would you get married again? Go for it. Three, why not? When you think about your first marriage and what you thought about it then, how has your. I mean, yeah, you'd be open to it, but how would it look differently now? Well, I did love my first wedding dress, and then I wore it in the We Belong Together video. Did you know that? No, I did not. Yeah, it was good. So the dress can come back. Dress can come back, for sure. Like, you know, it was my first. First wedding, I should just be nice about it. It was great. But also, you could be truthful. I mean, things change. My ideas around that stuff change every moment, especially after having kids. You know, I think I always knew I wanted a son, a child. Yeah. Could have been a boy, could have been a girl, could have been them, they. I knew I wanted a child. Yeah. And I think there was a moment in my life where I cared about marriage and all those things. But, you know, at the end of the day, I'm also Kiki Palmer, you know, so. I don't know that it looks the same for me the way that it looks for other people. And so that's changed the way that I think about it. Right. What is it like to be the queen of Christmas? Well, I love Christmas so much. People are just like, oh, yeah, that's just an act that she puts on. But really, I love it so much. Oh, my gosh, who doesn't love Christmas? People that don't love Christmas are crazy. I know, but they don't love it like me. I mean, how did that come to fruition? Like, what was, like. Obviously, you've done amazing Christmas songs, albums. But what made you say, okay, I'm going to make this my thing? Was it just the world that did it and you leaned in? Or was it something you set out to do? I think it was the world that did it and I leaned in because there'd be, like, moments when my songs would be playing and I'd be like, oh, okay, people like this song for Christmas. And then I just definitely leaned into it and said, you know, this is my favorite song. This is my favorite thing. I'm so happy that people are liking this. Yeah, yeah. I look forward to it. When You Believe is one of my favorite songs from The Prince of Egypt. It's a duet with you and Whitney. Yes. I just want to talk about that time. You know, how did the song come to you guys and how did you feel about doing it together? Well, prior to that moment, we had not worked together at all or done anything together. We didn't even really know each other at all. But that happened and that was the greatest part of the moments. And, yeah, it was a beautiful song. I didn't, we didn't write the song. Yeah. That was Clive Davis saying, hey, do this, you know. And so we did it and we, you know, we each sang the song separately and it was a beautiful, beautiful moment. What do you remember about, I mean, Obviously, you didn't record it with her, but being with her, what did you remember about you guys performing the song together or preparing for the song together? Well, there's a few different moments that happened, like, you know, throughout the thing. Preparing for the song together, I would say, how did we actually do that? It's hard because, you know, people were pinning us against each other. Well, that's right. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, for a while, people were very much so. It was the whole, you know, pop divas and one can only be one and this and that. So that's why I was curious of what it was like when you guys finally, you know, what did people not understand about your actual relationship? We don't know. And she, if she were here today, she'd be like, I don't know. And neither does she. Hilarious. It's kind of one of those things where the world takes and says what they say without even really any real knowledge. Yeah, without knowing. But we ended up being really, you know, friends with each other. And when she was around, I had a good time. Like, that's. That's all I know. Yeah. Well, I love to hear that. I mean, I love you both. And it was really awesome to see you both do that song together. That's a good one. So you've won five Grammys and you've been nominated 34 times. And I hate this concept that we hear so much where people say, oh, this is underrated. And I don't really love that term. But I'm curious with you if you feel like, you know, the women in this industry are celebrated as much as they should be or if the accolades and the nominations and the wins reflect. Their true impact. Hmm. It does seem like men get more acknowledgement and all of that than women. Maybe I'm wrong, but it just seems like that. Yeah. Yeah, it does. I mean, and really, I don't really know what the answer to it is or what the reason would be. You know, sometimes there's randomly the rules change. Therefore, the awards change. And the goalposts can constantly keep moving. For you in your career, what has been the thing that's let you know? You're appreciated or if that even matters. It wasn't awards. I did feel like I got gypped out of some of those awards, but that doesn't matter. But, yeah. Do I think women get less? They receive less? Yeah. Like if their names are kind of written out of the history of it. Yeah. Through these systems. Yeah. I do. Yeah. I believe in that. Yeah, me too. Is there a way we change it? Can we try? Yeah. I mean, what board do we got to get on? You know, that's a good question because there definitely is a board. You know there's a board. There's got to be a board. Yeah. Yeah. I know I'm on a couple of them, but I don't know that it's working. Whatever I'm doing is not working with that, so. But then also the question is like, you know, I was just saying like, does it matter? And if it does, does it? I mean, it's like, does it matter, you know, which maybe it does, the history and the systems and making sure that there's representation, but then also like as an artist, value has to come from somewhere else. We can't always look for it outwards. Yeah. So where does it come from for you? Well, you know, my life a little bit since we've been sitting here and talking your ear off about it, but I do think a lot of it was, you know, I don't know. from outward you know with me um awards and all that stuff but it's clearly not the right answer it's not you know what I mean so um yeah I think if we can have our inner selves come to the world with like whatever we're reaching for then that would be fantastic in those early days what do you think you were reaching for if there was like a a question you were trying to get answered you know I don't know I need to go a little bit more to therapy to figure that out um yeah trust me I know but yeah it's just it just is what it is yeah I really do feel that what's inspiring you lately or what inspired you for here for it all was there you know it's their moment or thing or something yeah here for it all is definitely my favorite uh new song it's my favorite new song that I've put together and you know it's I don't know that it's gonna be everybody's favorite but it's it's my favorite how did motherhood shift your perspective wow oh baby I just had the wildest ride with the prophecy season two on audible and kerry washington she's taking supernatural thriller to a whole new level dr virginia edwards really thought she could finally breathe easy but the universe said not today just as she's setting in with her family the power hungry billionaire cult leader shows up threatening everything she's protected on top of that she's being hit with these intense visions cryptic otherworldly and impossible to ignore now she's racing against time with just one month to decode them before the world falls apart and where do these visions lead her straight into the deep south on a relentless run john carlo esposito is locked in as the villain and he's hot on her heels and coming with full force but good thing virginia's got her trusted ally moses played by dule hill riding shotgun he and kerry washington go way back to psych but this time their characters are trying to stop a plan that could change the world forever the performances will grab you and the sound design it'll pull you so deep into virginia's world you'll be looking over your shoulder at every strange noise whether you caught the first season or you're diving in fresh the prophecy season two serves up thrills chills and some serious what would I do moments ready to test your faith and face your fears listen to the prophecy season two now on audible head to audible.com slash prophecy two for your free trial trust me it's going to be a great show this is one prophecy you want to hear it's hard to say because I have different eras with my kids like when they were babies that was one thing and they were so tiny and cute and then you know a couple years later they would come on stage with me when I was I was doing a christmas show at the um what's the name of the theater the beacon theater that's it um they would come out on the stage with me and it was really like it was just so beautiful I loved that as a moment and then you know kind of now or there's been times in between then and now but um we are just a family and it's a beautiful thing even when they want to do their own thing even when it's like you know oh I'm not going out with you to da da da da whatever yeah they're they're still everything to me do they sing your music do they have a favorite version of you as a Mariah as a Mimi I don't know they don't really sing my music I mean I heard my daughter singing my song the other night which is good does that give you life like would you love if they were into entertainment I mean both their parents are entertainment would you love that or would you not I wouldn't mind it I would always want what's best for them in their heart what they're gonna love doing the most yeah yeah I would love it if my son wanted to be in entertainment I mean I don't want to like be like a stage mom and push it on him but I would live what does he what does he like to do oh right now he's into cars and stuff he's just too but he does realize like that I'm a performer like he'll tell me to pull the camera up and he'll be like like he he knows that I'm fake laughing like he knows to fake laugh and it's honestly I'm just gonna show it to you really quick okay because I really think you're going to live for this it's absolutely insane oh my gosh it's so cute girl oh my gosh here he goes and I found out that he does that because one time somebody was taking pictures of me and he jumped in the photo and he started being like oh it's the craziest thing so you know I feel that we have a performer in our midst well clearly we do wow he's gonna do something oh my gosh okay what do you think or what would you want your kids to say uh about you as a legend 30 years from now years from now when they're you know speaking on your behalf or you know what would you say well hopefully they would do it you don't know they might be like no I can't come today and do this hilarious you never know what do you think they would say I honestly don't know like they could say many things yeah but you know hopefully they say that I always cared for them and loved them deeply I know that's for sure I mean you've done so much music obviously incredible fashion I'm literally going and buying those pants um is there anything that you feel like you haven't done you know or that you would want to do I'm thinking about putting something together that's like uh some sort of cosmetics moment But I got to wait a little minute for that and then try and jump into it. I'm here for a cosmetics moment. Here for it all. Here for it all. Yes. Okay, I have to bring up your master class, right? You did master class. And you said something very interesting. You said, I don't know if I have survived the music industry yet. I'm still trying. I mean, that's really powerful. And it kind of ties back to some of the things we've been talking about. But what did you mean when you said that? Exactly what I said. Like, I'm still trying to survive the music. It's a tough industry to be in from such an early age. And then, you know, trying to just, even just having a good friend in the music industry. None of it's easy. I mean, for me, it wasn't easy. It ain't easy for me either with entertainment. It's not. Yeah. I think that's why I was so excited also to talk to you. Because, you know, I'm hoping, and I feel like I have been in this conversation, learning how to deal with it. I think something that you do so well is you deal with it with so much grace and humor. Which I know is, you know, that's kind of my language with stuff. Because I make a joke. Oh, you know, but there's a lot going on underneath. Yes, yes. And we do get that from your music, from your lyrics and the things you say. That's why I was living for. Breakdown. Because it was helping me break down. But for you under, you know, when you're dealing with it outside of the humor, outside of the laughter, what is your way to cope? It's kind of interesting because for a while I didn't get involved in the industry. Like, I did at first. And then, you know, a couple years went by and I was just kind of like not really interested. I wasn't really approaching that moment. It wasn't like, oh, let's all be with our industry caps on and, you know, like. But now I kind of feel like, okay, I'm coming back to it. I'm seeing people. And, you know what I mean? Like, I stepped away for a minute. Just avoided it. I'm not mad at that. Maybe that's a thing we have to do. I think so. Because I was going to say, that can also be what survival looks like. It's just taking a step back. Exiting. Coming back, the elusive chanteuse. That sounds good to me. When you look at the difference of the industry when you came up to now, what do you think has been, yes, lost, but what's been gained? Do you see any positives? I think people have an easier time breaking into the music business. Because of technology and the whole thing. But, you know, what do I think that means to me? I mean, it's a totally different business than it was when I first started. And I remember, because like I told you, I was crying when I was 18. Because I wanted a record deal. Like, now you don't even really need a record deal. You know? Leak on it. It's true. True. But, yeah. Back then, I was like, I'm going to do it. I'm going to do it. I'm going to do it. I have to have this record deal. I have to do this. Like, it was stressful. Yeah. So, probably the fact that some of the gatekeeping has let up. Yes. But then, you know, we also hear these comments now. It's like, there's no more superstars. Why are there no more superstars? And I was thinking on something. I'm curious what you think about it. It's like, I think that a lot of times, like, when we think about the concept of what a superstar is, there were a lot of stakes that those labels had in that person being a superstar. And a lot of times it was a deal that you didn't want to be in. Like, it was something extraordinary. You know, that's why they pushed it. Because you're the product and they damn near owned 100% of you. And so, it's like, to me now, I feel like the reason why we don't have as many superstars is also because sometimes the labels don't have as much of a stake. They don't have as much of a budget. Now, get into that. Because where did the budget go? The budget went to hell in a. What did they say? They spent that budget on that Honey video. That's where the hell it went. Well, you know. They owed it to me at that point. But it's so weird. It's like, it is. It's so true. It's like, the budget's not there. And then also, the control's not there. And I feel like all of it together has created this thing where they're trying to create a ceiling. And then there's only so much that you can do as an independent artist. And it's not as fun to make, like, just, like, short, like, little videos. Like, I didn't do one when we did Dangerous. Everybody felt like we have to come to the table with that. But, you know, it ends up being the artist's cost now. Yes. It does. That's what it does. It does. It really does. And sometimes I do feel like it's better because, hey, at least you're investing in yourself. Because it doesn't come with strings. But it does mean that that superstardom that we know and that we knew, it's not the same. It's vague. Yeah. It is. When you were talking to Power 105, you said that music today feels like fast food. And it's harder to create classic songs. I mean, some of that was maybe answered in what you just said in terms of just, like, creating and the landscape. But how do you think we change that? Well, I think I was a little bit mean saying it feels like fast food. But I guess I just also meant how it gets created. Yeah. I mean, fast food is good. It wasn't too shady. But it's not always what you want. I didn't say it was Mr. Chow's or Nobu. You know, we have to have genres of food. Sometimes you do want it fast. But we do also need, you know, like you said, Mr. Chow. We do need, you know. Yes, Nobu. Nobu. Mm-hmm. A little bit of a linea. Something deconstructive. Something. How do we get back there? Or do we care? Or should we try to get back there? I think everybody who's in the industry is trying to get back there in their own way. But they're using new school methods. And it doesn't really create the same type of. You know, superstar. What's an old school method you think we need to bring back? I mean, I know I think artist development, but. Yeah, I think that should happen. But do they do that? Do they do a little bit of that, maybe? Some smaller production companies are. I don't know what the label do or ever did. But, like, definitely smaller production companies, a lot of them, you know, they can. But when you go straight to the label and you ain't got no support. That's it. That's it. And then if you don't hit quick enough. And it's like, develop who? Right. You're a failure. It's crazy. It is. Develop who? Develop who? They don't care about what's going on. What's the most important lesson you've learned as a businesswoman? As not just an artist. Because I think there's also a big change that's happening right now, too. Where it's like, no, you don't need a label. And you damn near don't need a hit record. But you do need a brand. When did that kick in for you? I don't know what year it was, but I was doing American Idol. Oh, my gosh. Yes. Y'all was shady on there. Some people were. It gave us life. But I just remember that that was a bit of a shift. That time felt like a shift in the way people were approaching their careers. Yeah. Or other, the labels. Yeah. The labels were approaching stuff. Yeah. And did you feel like you immediately started making changes? I mean, because I felt like before then, you all, I mean, I felt like I saw that business acumen already, you know, in your career. So what were some changes after then that you felt you went into overdrive with? Well, it wasn't that I went into overdrive with it. It was just that, you know, we were doing this thing, which was one of the, those shows shifted the culture, really. So I didn't even really want to do this. And then I ended up doing it. People convinced me and I got on the show and I just, it just wasn't really me. It wasn't what I'm, what I was used to, but I took a check and. You can never go wrong with taking a check. Okay. Do you think an artist who's like you, who's writing and singing amazing vocals, producing, just building an early career. Could break through in the same way? Like now someone's doing that. I feel like it depends on the artist. And sometimes we see a new artist where there'll be just ready to go and people are loving them. And maybe not a new artist from yesterday, but, you know, some artists that the world loves and they haven't been around for a really long time. Yeah. What's the biggest. Trap you think artists fall into, or what do you, what would you have hoped someone said to you coming up? You know, everything coming up was in such a tight world for me that it's hard to sometimes answer a question like a normal person would just answer it. No, I know what you mean. Yeah. Yeah. Because it was just a different time. Mm-hmm. And for me, a very different time because of the enclosed kind of thing I had going on. Do you feel like you went through artist development during that enclosure? closed or was it literally just total non-serving sovereignty and just do this do that and you learned on the back end there was that yes um but also like I was growing up while it was happening I was growing within it and you know things that I already had like my curly hair I always wore curly hair but that's like one thing that was mine and you know I pretty much had the same look as I had you know just getting into the music industry yeah yeah I didn't have like gowns and things well speaking of gowns and things I want to take a stroll down memory lane I play a game with all my guests and I wanted to play this game with you called Mimi Memes where we go back and look through some of your iconic memes and you tell me what was happening in the time that you filmed it okay okay they can't even believe us nine hundred dollars you can't even freaking go in the treadmill is that you so this is during you said mc oh e was mc square yeah yes the promo that they did was like a bunch of little skits yes and you on that treadmill with those heels girl I know how real is that would you really do that I would do that for a picture and who was the little that was your dog that was jj that was jj he's no longer with us no he's always around I know that's right yeah yes yes okay next clip oh my gosh baby you look so cute babies look at the food when they were babies I mean it's time we're always waiting for it what are we getting this year what are you gonna how you gonna gag I'm figuring it out I cannot wait I am trying to get it make it mesmerizing oh well I'm sure you'll do nothing bad we're waiting with bated breath yeah what's the next one guys so we got l legendary legendary g gorgeous my blush b beautiful all of you beautiful people tea tantalizing and even Q for quality I mean I love this when you went up there did you already know you're gonna do this or was that just what came to your mind no that was just me figuring out what I was gonna do oh my god it's so funny when you say like you know which I believe to be true that you're shy but then you have all of this charisma and as soon as you get on stage you just turn into everything and more thank you you welcome it's really true it's so amazing how you how your gift just shines through next one now what was happening here that was the subway and I hadn't gone on the subway in a very very very long time and we were coming from an event and that's a Versace blue dress and yeah you had to get what you were getting so you just said let me sit down real quick on the subway yeah still fabulous I love it you smiling yeah and those gloves what a nice little touch I think that had to do with somehow when my hand got hurt but you don't want to hear that story we'll tell it in progress exactly what we wanted you know okay next one oh that's an Aspen you were an Aspen I've never been there I've always wanted to go to Aspen this year I'll be there oh my gosh it sounds so cool I just hear stories about it like what is the vibe in Aspen it's are we really snowboarding are we skiing I mean we could and really it's the like the the landscaping that's the vibe like it's the mountains mountains are we eating good we're eating amazingly really what's your favorite food in Aspen what's my favorite I feel like you probably have a chef they just whip up anything I do have a chef in Aspen period so whatever whatever you're feeling but I I cook when I'm in Aspen because it's for in honor of my father and um he made linguine with white clam sauce and it was so good and he left me the recipe when he passed him oh my gosh linguine with clam sauce it's not for everybody but I love it I feel like I need a little taste yes I didn't even realize you cooked here I am cooking this is last week or something and this is the one you have with Kehlani and yes yes oh my gosh love them both and she see her new little track that shake it to the max I love her how was that doing that record with them it was good I mean we're still trying to get all together in one place at the right time um I was with Kehlani lat was it last night yeah I was with Kehlani last night I was with Kehlani last night I was with Kehlani yes last night um and so we're all trying to come together and make it work but we got them on the record got on a record we need a little video for sure we're making a little video yes okay next one guys Mariah is it true you don't acknowledge the passing of time that is true what do you mean by that I just don't believe in it what do you mean time zones or no no just time just time if we were to meet up later how how would we know when we would just it would just happen on Mariah's time yeah I would have somebody call you and figure it out I love somebody call you and figure out that means never oh my gosh I mean we're laughing we're joking but there's actually something so superior and specific about no time like I think actually time is you know being the curvature of time having it all in your hands that's how we all living we all should be we're too focused on time because really what is two o'clock three o'clock four o'clock five three in the morning you know yes who cares sometimes I wake up at I guess it's what what we call people call two in the morning and think it's two in the afternoon and I'm still asleep it is what it is is that all we have okay so I just have to ask because you know as a person that gets memed I'll be getting memed how do you feel about your meme your your current ones the ones from years ago do you love them do you laugh do they take you back to a time like what do you feel about the virality culture as it's continued to grow I think it's going to continue and continue um and I don't mind memes like depending on what it is sometimes you see one you don't love well sorry that's what it is and then sometimes I'll see ones that I'm like oh that was so fun oh yeah because they're taking the time to do it taking those moments in time and it's so funny when they flip the context yes well thank you so much for Mariah for coming on the show seriously I mean it's been such a blast to talk with you and hang out with you and for you reminding me of the vision tape I need to find that vision tape it's so good oh thank you so much for having me it's been amazing talking with you and it's hard to find good people in the industry so I'm glad we got to talk about that oh me too thank you thank you for having me thank you and here for it all we are here for it all yes period bye darling let's be real Mariah Carey's influence is beyond words for more than 30 years she's been the blueprint for artists creatives and honestly for women period she gave voice to vulnerability and power she made glamour look effortless and resilience look divine from pinning some of the most iconic songs in pop history to redefining what it means to own your narrative Mariah has done it all with the grace of a butterfly and confidence of a pop diva so today we're not just celebrating her catalog we're celebrating her the artist the icon the woman the one and only Mariah Carey I hope you guys enjoyed this one as much as I did see you next time because baby this is Kiki Palmer baby this is Kiki Palmer is hosted and executive produced by me Kiki Palmer Lucas Siegel is our post producer our producers are Lauren Hampton and Molly Nestor Hillary Esty McLaughlin is our executive producer production services provided by Evolution Media our original theme song was written and performed by me Kiki Palmer for team Kiki my producer is Sharon Palmer for Wondery our managing producer is Olivia Fonte senior managing producer is Nick Ryan and our executive producers are Emily Feldbrake Aaron O'Flaherty and Marshall Louis there are books that change how you see the world and there are books that change how you see yourself in a new podcast series a great book with Barack Obama President Obama sits down with a series of surprising and sharp guests to explore six books that have shaped his life and perspective on the world from Song of Solomon and the fire next time to all the pretty horses and Gilead The President is joined by guests like Tom Hanks and Ta-Nehisi Coates to reflect on how these timeless stories shaped his thinking on everything from fatherhood to leadership and discover together what they tell us about the world we live in and the world we want to create. Audible subscribers can listen to all episodes of A Great Book with Barack Obama ad-free right now. Plus access each audiobook discussed in the series. Download the Audible app today. Hi, I'm Kenya Barris. And I'm Malcolm Gladwell. We're back for season two of our Audible original podcast, The Unusual Suspects. We're bringing you fresh new conversations from guests like Anderson Potts, David Sedaris, Ron Howard, Rich Roll, Amy Sherald, and many more. Sign up for a free trial to Audible to listen to season two in the Audible app or by subscribing on Apple Podcasts.