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Speaker 3Hello and welcome to the How Not to Screw Up Your Kids podcast. So, pour yourself a cuppa, find a comfy seat and enjoy the conversation. Today's episode, Helping Children Manage Setbacks, is for all parents with children of all ages because our children experience setbacks every single day. And this episode is helping you look at ways that we can help support them and actually really see it as a growth opportunity. I know it sounds cliched, but bear with me. So, if you've got a really young child, their tower of blocks topples. You see that bottom lip begin to quiver and their eyes fill with those tears. And we've got that mixture, haven't we, of like, oh my goodness me, it's going to be okay and wanting to fix. But also knowing that we've got a real opportunity here to help build that resilience. And whether that's fixing or helping our children bounce back from towers falling over to helping them, you know, when they spill something or when it comes all the way to a setback in an academic setting, whether that's exams or tests. It's all about helping us. Are there opportunities within this that we can build lifelong resilience? So, in this episode, it's pretty packed because I'm trying to cover absolutely every base for every single child. So, whether you've got a really young child all the way up to our teens, we're looking at sports. We're looking at sports setbacks. We're looking at academic setbacks. We're looking at life setbacks. We're looking at adaptations for children who are neurodiverse. So, we're looking at the whole thing. And I'm really framing it from the perspective of three core skills throughout. The first one is around the feeling, the emotion, the acknowledgement of that, that we help coach them through that. We then look at praising the process. And then my ladder analogy that I use, all of the time, we're going to use these tiny exposure ladders and a 24-hour debrief. And I'll give you the exact lines to use by age and the research behind it. So, let's get going. So, first of all, I guess if we're talking about the emotion and the feeling, I think it's important to start by talking about what does a setback feel like in a child's body. So, when we're talking about emotions, why we want to start, with the feeling first and why that matters, this should be super helpful. Because setbacks aren't just the narrative that our children experience, that whole, oh dear, my blocks have fallen over. Oh, I find this really tricky. Obviously, with really young children, the language that they have within that setback is not going to be the same as the language an eight-year-old or a 14-year-old is going to have. But of course, we often think about the thoughts piece. But actually, when our child experiences a setback, it's almost like a full-body alarm goes off. And our role in that moment is to help them with this co-regulation. We want to lend our calm to them so that that body that's gone into this body shock is able to then go from the body in alarm. And we know that when our children's bodies go into alarm, they're operating from their back brain, their emotion center brain. And the co-regulation that we offer them and afford them by our calm helps them switch back the brain back online to the front part of their brain, their front brain, which is where reasoning and logic happens. So that's why we want to do that. So some of the lines, some of the things that we can say is, you know, big feelings. You're having a big feeling. You know, that's pretty tough. Yeah, that didn't go the way that you wanted. That feels overwhelming. Obviously we use different language for different ages and we will come back to that. And maybe we might want to take a breath together. Maybe we might want to move ourselves physically closer to our child. Maybe there's a certain element of touch, whether that's a hand on their shoulder, on their arms, whether that's a hug. It's all relative to what your child needs in that moment. But that acknowledgement of the feelings, that feeling is super helpful. We then, once we've acknowledged that feeling or at least laid the groundwork to, that's a big feeling, that feels too much, that's overwhelming, that's pretty tough, that's not the way that we wanted it to play out. Then what we can then do is help the planning process, the next step, the problem solving, we can do collaboratively rather than jump into fix. Yeah, because what then happens is our children are much more able to do that. They're much less likely to fear mistakes. Because what we've done is rather than rushing into fix, oh my goodness me, there's a problem, let's rush in. Instead, what we're doing is acknowledging it's a big feeling, acknowledging it didn't go the way that they wanted them to, providing that calm co-regulation. Hey, come on, let's work out what you could do next. So we're working with them and therefore mistakes feel something less to be scared of. So one way to think of it is that the, if we're doing something wrong, we're doing something wrong. We have a feelings first approach to a setback, any setback that our child has, you know, they come back and they've got a really poor test result, or they've not done very well on an assignment, or they've come back from a sports match and it hasn't gone the way that they wanted to. When we take it from a feelings first, so that's the first bit that we do, that's our first interaction. Think of it as a feelings first approach opens the door. Because that, acknowledgement helps our child understand that, hey, my parent gets this, they're on my side, they understand. Then when we then go into the coaching piece, rather than the fixing piece, helping and working collaboratively, our children are much more inclined to accept it because it's come from that place of acknowledgement. So the first thing we want to do when they have a setback is to help them and understand how that might feel in their body. So that's number one. Number two, we want to praise in a way that builds and creates an opportunity to bounce back. You know, remember when we're talking about setbacks, it's an opportunity to build resilience. Resilience is about our children's capabilities of bouncing back when things don't go according to plan. It's just almost that water off a duck's back. I tried it, didn't work really well. So I'm just going to try something new. So we don't want to start this next step until we, we are sure that we have done the feelings piece and our child has moved from back brain to front brain. Now for some children that can be simply in that process of that acknowledgement of the feeling and then we can move on. For others, they might need that acknowledgement of the feeling, but they may take longer to settle that physiology before we can do this. So if you're not sure, then play around and see what cues your child gives you that then tells you what to do next. And if they don't tell you, they're ready for the next bit. So once that alarm, you know, that sympathetic nervous system, that alarm bell goes off, we can then work on using words that help grow and develop their resilience and that persistence. So we might say things like, I noticed you tried two different things, two different ways of approaching that problem. I noticed that you tried doing X when it came to revising for your test. I noticed that you tried doing Y when you were building the blocks. Yeah. What do you think worked, what do you think didn't work? this is the coaching piece, because we're trying to encourage our children to get into this reflective process, rather than seeing everything about outcome. We talk so much about growth mindset, which I will do in a moment. But what we want to do, if we want to cultivate it, we want to create an atmosphere and a culture and a way of approaching things within our home and within our family that sees setbacks as a genuine opportunity to learn. And that's what we're helping do with this coaching piece. So we want to make sure that when we're giving any form of praise, it looked like that was working really well, but that looked like it wasn't. And I really love the way that you did this, is that we want to make sure that that praise is super specific and it's informational, so that it's tied to something that is controllable, because what that does is boost persistence. But also what that does do from a praise perspective, the descriptive praise perspective, is it gives our children a chance to learn. And that's what we want to do. It gives our children a super tangible understanding of what we'd like to see more of, and what they might want to reflect and change. From research, what we know is that when we praise, that early process praise that we give our children predicts later achievement via these almost incremental small mindset shifts. And so that's why this piece is so, so important. And when we're talking about children in preschool, so our younger children, keeping a healthy praise balance, as in process is greater and much more important than the person, means that we are then much more likely to get a better result than if we go person first and result, which then often creates these backfires, because they're used to the praise being relative to the outcome rather than the person. So what we've done now is we've helped our children feel it. We've those feelings, and then we framed it within this coaching perspective of what they did well, what they might want to reflect on it. And now we want to begin that process of setting up for our children to be able to then take some small practice steps. Okay. So let's just remember that when we're talking, so the number three, it's a growth mindset. So it's helpful language. We want to try and use language that is helpful. And then we want to try and use language that is rather than this magic pill that is instantly going to make things better. So what we're trying to do is help them around that mindset. So mindset language helps, but we don't want to oversell it. Yeah. So what we want to understand is that we are looking at framing setbacks, failures as our children see it, as we want to frame it around effort and the strategy that they might adopt. What's the next thing you're going to do? Then we can teach the skills. So this is all about setting up for these tiny exposure ladders that we're going to do. So we're setting that. So some of the things that we might say, so let's say classic challenge that our children often do, maybe they're doing something in maths and maybe they're really struggling with their multiplication. So you can't do long multiplication yet. So let's find one small step that you can do today. Yep. So what we're doing is we're using the power of yet. That's Carol Dweck's super. I love those three letters. They're just brilliant because what, what that does when we say the word yet is we're rather than making it something that is absolute. I can't do long multiplication to something that is momentary. Yeah. I can't do long multiplication yet. That sets the framework for in this moment. I can't, but that does not mean I can't do it in future rather than it being absolute. And then that's the power of yet. That helps us build the confidence through exposure. It's doing, we can't talk our children out of managing setbacks. They have to get back on the horse and have another go. So we've done, so let's just frame it before we start looking specifically at the skills piece. So the first bit is all about acknowledging that feeling and why that's important. The second bit is about praising the aspects that we saw descriptively that was helpful and then debriefing what wasn't. The growth mindset helps us use the language and frame it from that perspective of, I can't do that yet, but it's something that I can do. And now we start moving into the skills acquisition and the skill bit is around these. I talk all of the time about ladders. Ladders take us from A to B and they have multiple rungs and we go up them to get to where we want to go. Now, I can't always tell you and you won't always be able to predict, how many rungs of a ladder your child needs to work through in order to acquire a particular skill. But if we frame it from a perspective of using the ladder as a way of allowing our children to have tiny exposures, so we're creating a tiny exposure ladder that helps them practice hard things safely, then what happens is their confidence grows from that repeated, and gradual practice. So let's pick something on a social perspective, because I'm trying to cover all the various different setbacks that you might be experiencing. Because setbacks are not necessarily even one particular tangible. My child sees a setback when things don't go to plan when they're playing a sport or when things don't go to plan when they're playing a card game or when they're doing academic work. Sometimes a setback can simply be around social situations. So let's use that one. As the next example. So let's say we want to encourage our child to be able to order their own food when we go to a coffee shop or a restaurant or a cafe. Yeah. So the ladder might be, for example, watch me order, step one, whisper the order that you want to have to me and say one word to the member of staff who's doing it, and then order a full sentence. Yeah. So place the order in, and then the fifth bit, maybe pay afterwards. That's five rungs of the ladder. So what we're doing is we're helping them at the baseline modeling. This is what it looks like to order. Yeah. Now let's see whether you can at least just whisper to me what you want. So now there's a little bit of exposure here because you're having to use your voice in front of someone that you might be a little bit nervous about. And then you're going to say one word, and then you're going to order completely. And then we're going to move that on to you being able to pay. And now we're going to take a quick pause for a word from our sponsors.
Speaker 1You say what you actually mean instead of what would hurt someone else. Grow connects you with thousands of high-quality licensed therapists across the U.S., offering both virtual and online therapy. And in-person sessions, nights and weekends. You know, exposure is the key
Speaker 3ingredient in any aspect of psychotherapy, counseling, when a child is feeling overwhelmed by something. And what we can do as parents is we can contribute to that exposure quality because we can scaffold it. And what we know is, from research, is that as parents, if we can scaffold that exposure, we can contribute to that exposure quality. If we can scaffold that exposure, then what that means is that outcomes are much better and our children manage to navigate stressful situations if they're feeling anxious, if they're feeling overwhelmed, and then to pick themselves up from setbacks. So what we can do through the exposure aspect as well, the other side to this from a research perspective is the learning that our children get from this exposure, from these tiny little, tiny exposure ladders is the learning that they get from that is so significant because what we do is when a child is nervous about something or scared or overwhelmed, they've made a mental prediction about how badly that situation is going to go. They've played out through their inner critic, through their little inner movie, all the worst possible case scenarios that are going to happen. When we scaffold those tiny exposure ladders, what we do is we create a safe environment for our children to take those risks. and then disprove that chatter through exposure. And that's the only way to do it. We can't critically argue a case to our child about why a situation is not as scary as they think it is. The only way for them to really overcome that is by being in it and exposing themselves to it. And so that's also another key part. So we want to use language with our children about, we'll do this in small steps until your fear drops. Then we can move up one rung and then we'll move up the next rung. So what we're doing is we're helping our children by acknowledging that fear, by using that, the descriptive praise, by using that growth language and then telling them that we're there and how we might do that. And I love using the ladder in a way where our children actively get involved in this is what that ladder is going to look like so that you can acquire that particular skill or overcome that setback or feel less scared of that particular situation. And then you can use that as a way of telling them that we're there and how we might do that. Having it visually, you know, have it on a fridge. If you haven't already done so, you can download a full copy, like a picture that we've drawn of a ladder, which you can then just print off and use. Or if you really want to go full on, I often use, you know, you can buy from a pet shop, the sort of ladders that would go into a birdcage. I've used those as well. And then I've bought those sort of stretchy men that you get and use those to then help, you know, help them to get up the ladder so they can see it. Whatever works for you and whatever works for your children is super helpful. So we're going to do that. And what is really important, this is point number five is when we do have these tiny exposure ladders, we want to have a 24 hour ritual to debrief. Yeah. Practice isn't just about doing, there ought to also be a reflective piece as well. Let's reflect on what happened, what went well, what didn't go well. So, you know, things like three questions. These are super simple three questions that we give them 24 hours later. What happened? Facts only, not feelings. What objectively happened? So what's one thing we've learned? So the first question is what happened? Facts only. Second question is one thing we learned. Third question is what next? What one tweak are we going to take into for next time? And then we schedule it. So it's all about having these debriefs. And what we know is from the research is that when we debrief, it improves reflection, obviously, because we're practicing reflection, but future performance is amplified and excelled because of that debrief rather than us going into typical autopilot. We want the debriefs to be short. We want to praise not the win. Remember, we're encouraging growth mindset, and we obviously want to tailor this by age. So let me give you some age specific playbooks to help you. All right. So for three to five year olds. So again, please don't get too caught up in the age bit. And we can share this within the free resource library, www.drmaryhand.com forward slash library. If you have any questions, you are not already subscribed to the library resources. There are hundreds in there because obviously the podcast has been going for four years. If you are not already subscribed, it will ask you for your email address, and then you'll get instant access. If you are already subscribed, then obviously just pop in there and have a look, and you will get the specific playbook. So for three to five year olds, our stance is calm, concrete. We're going to do these playful do-overs. The words we want to potentially use, the words that might be helpful will be things like big feelings, the tower fell, one breath, shake, try again. Yeah. You kept trying two more times in terms of praise. So this is some of the language. Don't feel that you have to use these words, but it's just giving you a little bit of a framework for the level of language that we want to use. For six to 10 year olds. Now we want to get the yet in. Yeah. We want to get that bit in. We want to have this sort of 10 minute time box of practice. And then we want to review this, the learning and the words we want to use it might be, again, this is my language. It really stings when the mark isn't what you hoped. What helped a little? What's one different strategy that you might test next time? So again, we're using that language for 11 to 14 year olds. What we really want to get into here is we want to unpick because for our 11 to 14 year olds, we want them to be able to untangle the results that they've got from their identity. So the challenge that we have here is that I've got a bad result. Therefore I'm a bad person. And what we really want to do is that we want them to see it rather than it being identity is we want them to see that it's just a result. So a low score is data. It's information, but it isn't a verdict on us, on you. And then what we want to do is a bit of a bounce back plan with one tweak and a check-in date and some of these micro exposures. And then the next day debrief for our older children, for our 15 to 18 year olds, it's about this, this sort of the balance between them seeking autonomy, independence. I can act as an independent agent to being us being supportive through coaching and coaching tied to the values that we have and that they're beginning to get really clear on. So what we then want to help them with is about practicing. Under mild pressure. So for them, if it's setbacks, then we want to debrief after maybe exams or tests or auditions or interviews so that they're then able to, we're able to sort of scaffold and support that. So those are the sort of the air, the kind of the core areas there. But what I would like to do is I want to just talk about a couple of adaptations for sports and performance and neurodiversity before I set you a listener challenge. Not done that before, but please stay listening because I want to see how we get on with this. I think it'll be, I think it'll be really good fun. And because all of us as parents will have children will have, who'll be experiencing setbacks on a daily basis. I thought it'd be a really good thing for us to come together as a community around challenges. So for sports and performance setbacks, so this doesn't just have to be sport. It could be performance because you've got a child who is doing something from a drama, from a dance perspective, from a music perspective, from a musical perspective. So when they lose and when things don't quite go according to plan, we've got a real opportunity here to build resilience. So what we want to do is we want to use language around separating the outcome from their effort and then using language around what one tweak you'll test at your next practice. Yep. So what we're doing is we're doing it. We're trying to use that kind of language. If it is, is a something where we are actively involved and we're observing, and maybe we've taken a video recording, then we might then play that back so that we can offer them some super objective feedback. So when they get into that emotional, oh my goodness, I was awful at this. Well, we can be, well, let's have a look at this, this video that I happened to take. And then let's look at that and then talk through a tweak that you might therefore do as well as acknowledgement and that descriptive praise is really helpful because what we know is, is that when we support the research evidences is when we get family support, whether that's exercise, whether that is for performance in terms of creative arts, is that that helps when they've got that support in terms of us being able to help them with that growth mindset that builds this mental toughness in adolescence and that builds self-resilience. And self-efficacy and self-efficacy is simply this notion of I, as an individual can act upon my world and create a different result rather than learn helplessness, which is just simply, I just can't, you know, there's no point in me trying the result is exactly the same. So that's an adjustment that we can do for sports and performance. And what we need is the adjustments that I think that we ought to be aware of when we're talking about children with neurodiversity is that autistic children, ASD children are really helped by visual steps, predictable routines and reduced sensory overload. So what we want to do to help them, the adaptations we may want to make with that is we might to have, we want to have a slower ladder. And what that means is we're not escalating up each run as quickly. If one step is accomplished really straightforwardly, don't rush to then move on to the next rung of the ladder. Instead, really consolidate that rung so that your child, your neurodiverse child, your ASD child feels that they've got a real solid step that they can then build on. So don't be tempted to move too fast when it comes to ASD children. They really love that visual aspects of it and that predictability and be mindful to use really concrete, unambiguous clear language as part of that process. So that's really helpful children with ASD. For ADHD children, what we want to make sure that we do is when we've got the exposure ladder is that we want those repetitions to be short. And then we want to externalize those plans. We want to be hooking them in terms of those exposure ladders around their interests. And we want to make sure that the praise is specific and immediate if we want to help them in the best possible way. So that's some pretty direct, super straightforward ways that we could help our children. And so what I would like to do now is I want to set a listener challenge and a call to action for you. So I want you to pick one tiny practice fail this week for each of your children. I want you to use the exposure ladder and I want you to do the 20-minute exposure ladder. And I want you to do the 20-minute exposure ladder. And I want you
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