Hellebuyck Requests Trade and Makar Signs MASSIVE Extension ft. David Pagnotta & Conor McGahey

(upbeat music) - He's asked for a trade. No, no, no, no, he's demanded a trade. What's it a word coming up here on the sheet? Welcome to it to kick off another week here for this Monday, August 31st. About to say goodbye to August, which let me get a little bit goofy. I think the summer really felt a little bit long and people were away from hockey a little bit too long this month. So with training camp on the horizon, I think we can all start to breathe some hockey sanity into our lives. A lot coming up on the show today and it's gonna revolve around the two main topics that we saw play themselves out late last week and into the weekend. One involving a contract and one involving a gold tender trying to escape. Conor Hallibuk going public with the trade request. I caught myself there. We're gonna talk about demands versus requests here in a second. With the trade request, which as you'll recall, if you've watched or listened to this podcast for a number of months and or years, you'll know that Greg and I talked about the Wushinsky and I talked about this. I wanna say April, when we were in Kelowna, is that right, Zach? April may be May. I think we started to first hear the rumors and then we see the statement from Conor Hallibuk through his agent how months ago he very quietly asked for a trade. That would have been right on that same time that we were starting to hear the whispers about it. And we'll talk about the Kelowna contract, what that means for him, what that means for the Colorado Avalanche, what that means for the NHL, what that means for the CBA, what that means for a lot of different entities that are involved in here, either directly or indirectly. So Dave Pennywood is gonna stop by here in a couple of moments. Let me know when Dave is aboard and also Conor McGaghey, our good friend from the Colorado Avalanche played by Play Voice of the Avalanche, we'll stop by to talk about what this means for the abs and whether that number was something that everybody saw coming. I'd just like to be Bill Garenci in that number. I'd just like to be crazy to pull the order of Minnesota Wild Sea in that number. Like I think about a couple of things in the summer, like what does Pat for Beak think when he saw the Leo Carlson number and what does Henry and Susan Samueli think or what did they think when they saw that number come in. I'm curious what Bill Garenci and Craig Leopold thought when they saw that number. - Well, doesn't Leopold only have himself the blame? Sorry, Jeff had to cut you off on that, but doesn't he only have himself? Isn't he the one who kind of was like, "Oh, we're gonna get it done," and then he started this. - He did it with Capriza. He's doing it with reviews. - Sure, yes. Uh-huh, I get it. I understand and I know you wanna when you're an owner and you're wealthy beyond many people's wildest dreams, you wanna puff your chest out, I guess, and flex your pocket book. Let me ask you with this, though. Let me start off with this, because again, so much of what we end up doing here in media comes down to semantics and language. And what you see now, whether it's Dylan Larkin or whether it's Connor Hellerbuck, the idea of demanding a trade versus requesting a trade or asking for a trade. And the way that I distinguish it is this. A demand has some consequences to it. You trade me or I will blank. And that may happen with Connor Hellerbuck. We don't know if he's not traded, does he report the training camp? I mean, I believe so, he's a pro. I think he still goes. It did owe for Dylan Larkin. I don't suspect that there'll be a withholding of services. That's why these are trade requests, not demand. Demand is a word that you use that I think when you wanna ratchet up the emotion. And I get it, I'm in the entertainment industry too. I get it, I'm in media. We're part of the hype machine. So don't think that I'm putting myself outside of this conversation or somehow above it, because I recognize that I am not. But the distinction is you can ask for a trade, request a trade, and that is what Dylan Larkin has done, and that is what Connor Hellerbuck has done. The word demand carries with it consequences. You do this or I do that. And to my knowledge, that hasn't happened here. It's a small thing, but you know, I am a very tiny individual who focuses on the smallest of the tiniest microscopic topics. - You don't say it's just a lot of the plot. - It's just a lot of the plot. - Oh God, a slot area, don't even get used to it. - It's a very good goal. - Yeah, good goal. - Look at him, he took that shot from the slot area. I was opposed to the swan anyhow. General consensus, there's another one there. Oh, geez, I was opposed to what other kind of consensus. You were big footing, Nick Elbriga today. - Yes, I feel a bit. - A hosting weak point cake. - You want to job, right? - You want to try and take his job actively? - Yeah, he's gone, he's gone. He was in Latvia, he's elevating all over Europe, and you're trying to big put the guy. I think that I'm requesting his job and not demanding his job. That's what I'm doing here. - Okay, very good, we did tie that one up. So what did you and Rosie talk about today? What did you get into and what did you disagree about? I'm guessing you were dealing with the two main issues that we're going to get into here. - Yeah, the one that we had the biggest disagreement was about the Connor Hellerbach situation, where Rosie's perspective on it was that he doesn't like these players signing these deals. And as early on in the deals as they do, requesting out IE Connor Hellerbach, IE Dylan Larkin, and saying, you've committed to this organization, this city, this franchise, and for you to this early on, say, I'm done, Rosie didn't like that. My perspective on it was more so that I'm okay with what Hellerbach does if he looks at the forecast of the franchise and says, I'm 33 years old, and I don't think we'll be competitive again for another three. And then it says, I'm willing, I would like to leave, and he opens it up and says, I would like a trade, let's work something out, rather than where Dylan Larkin is, where Dylan Larkin reportedly said, I'm only going to these three teams. I think those are different situations where I can understand what Rosie's saying on the Larkin side. I think it's a little different from my perspective on Hellerbach side. - Right, okay, so the one thing, and this hasn't, again, I'm gonna throw out a couple of things here that I know people hate it when you're like, you wonder about things, and sometimes it's informed, and sometimes it's not. I genuinely am curious about a couple of things here with Conor Hellerbach. When he signed his extension, him and Mark Shifley, and we can get into Shifley here in a couple of seconds. When he signed his extension, this was a particularly sensitive time for the Winnipeg Jess because there was a concern that if Hellerbach goes, if Shifley goes, they rebuild, and the team looks over the economics of what a rebuild looks like and says, oh, we don't like looking over this cliff. We don't like what we see here, I'll tell you what, let's do these deals, we'll give you the financial security and the number that you want. Do this solid for us now, and if things start to take a turn, and we start going backwards, you have our blessing that we'll try to move you. You have our word, now, again, I don't know if that conversation was had. I know there have been some situations before where teams have done that with players, like, look, we got to calm our fan base down, do us this solid, and if things don't work out, we will get you out of here. I can tell you for a fact, and everybody who's followed hockey for any length of time can tell you for a fact that has happened before. Has it happened here, did it happen here with Conrad Hellerbach? I don't know, the other thing is, and this can kind of be a sensitive one, but he mentioned, it's the best thing for him and his family right now, for him to play somewhere else. Things change for a lot of American hockey players playing in Canada who are on the US Olympic team, and the co-zing up at the White House and the State of the Union address, I do not want to turn this into a politics show. The presidential medal of freedom, Trump with Conrad Hellerbach as well. I know that the reception that some players got in Canada, some American players with the gold medals got in Canada was not great, and for those players, it could have seemed like their hometown teams turned on them unlike in past seasons with various players from different nationalities, winning gold medals and coming back to their teams in Canada. I don't know if that was a factor, but it put it this way, it wouldn't surprise me, because some of the things that I did here was, there were some players who were like, "Oh man, it really feels like my hometown fans have turned against me because of the gold medal, the party, the women's team, the White House, the State of the Union address, anyhow." All of this will be answered one day, and we'll see what happens. Right now, let's bring in Dave Panioto. DFO Insider, to shed more light on this one, it really was, it was a trade request that was made a number of, I know if you heard our preamble about trade demands versus trade requests, my pet peeve is, he demanded a trade. Like, well, no, a demand comes with it, a consequence, and he's not saying trade me or I'm not going to camp. Right, so it's a trade request, same as Dylan Larkin. And this goes back a few months. We've been talking about here on the program for a while, you and I have talked about it as well. This is no secret, this is existed on the barking chain and the whisper circles all of it around the NHL. But was there a part of Dave Panioto that said, that's an interesting tactic. going public with the trade request here. Yeah, it's from their perspective, I totally understand it, from the player side, from Hellamuck and his agent side, because they anticipated something happening while around draft. Yeah. You know, the request took place at the end of the season, and in the end of the season slash early May, somewhere in between there. And you know, the anticipation was something was going to happen by the start of summer, which ended June beginning of July. And it didn't, it got close, it got pretty close with Buffalo, but it didn't happen, obviously. So, as things didn't progress, you know, you've got to kind of try to move the needle here a little bit and kind of not necessarily force anybody's hand, but you want to apply a little bit of pressure with camps getting underway in a couple of weeks. And it's going to be a bit of an awkward scenario. You know, certainly if he's still there. So, let's apply a little bit of pressure now before camps get underway. European media tour was last week. Yeah. NHL's North American media tour in Vegas is next week. Can something happen over these next couple of weeks before camps begin on the 15, 16, 17th of September that allows him to be in a new environment and gets the jets what they're looking for as part of it? I don't get the sense that when the request was initially made that Shovel Day Out in company in Winnipeg said, "Okay, we hear you. We're going to pull the trigger on something relatively soon." But I think the notion was, we're going to try to make this happen and accommodate this as soon as possible before it really gets out there and, you know, you don't want to have something overblown. And we saw to an extent how that can be against the player in Detroit with Dylan Larkin and the fans kind of shifting their attention against him. They didn't want that to happen with Hellabuck in Winnipeg because he did genuinely enjoy his time there. But things haven't gone the way that he anticipated plus some of the other things you were talking about, too. So am I surprised by it? No. Do I like it? I'm kind of indifferent. But I understand why it was made at the time because it still gave him three plus weeks of leeway before camps get underway. The one thing, again, that I do wonder about. I'm not sure how much of the introductory conversation had with Wasack about it, you heard. But one of the things, because you know that these, this type of arrangement has happened before. Look, do us a solid sign the deal. We'll keep you here. We'll give you Max Term. You have that security, happy family, happy agent, happy player. I know you might not want to be here if this is a losing situation. So if we turn sideways or start to go backwards, you have our word that we try to get you out of here. I don't know that that has happened here. But if it had, it wouldn't be the first time. You believe it that they had a verbal. I believe it. If it's not happening here, we will get you out. And that triggered him saying, okay, now we're taking a look backwards. I need to want to cut up. I'm not getting any younger. Yeah, I believe that was the case. However, I don't think either side anticipated it happening as soon as it did. You know, I figured that my understanding was, okay. If we get to three years left on the contract and we're just not there. You know, and you got three more years or two more years to try to, you know, go win a championship. We'll do you a solid. We'll try to find you a new spot. Yeah. And obviously other circumstances affected into this decision. Last season did not go swimmingly at all for most of the team. And if that surge that they got in the last quarter of the season happened at the halfway point, you know, maybe we're having a different discussion, maybe they squeezed into the postseason, but it didn't happen. So we're dealing with reality. But I think there was the understanding, look, we're going to get this done. Same time they got shifly done, we're going to make this happen. And if things don't go well, you're getting your money, you're getting your contract. But if things don't go well with two, three years left on the deal, we'll try to make, you know, we'll do you a solid. We'll try to find you a good environment to go after a championship. But again, this is a lot sooner into the deal than then than that would have been. So I think from that perspective, this happened a little prematurely, but taking into account how last season went, where things have gone, not adding additional reinforcements, forget about draft picks and where they drafted. I think that coupled likely with some of the stuff that you and Zach discussed, prior with respect to the USA and winning gold and the fan reaction and things like that, I think that factored in a little bit. I don't think it's been that impactful on Connor Hellabuck as some of the other guys. But I think it did play a bit of a factor in all of this. Now again, he really did enjoy his time with the Jets and has, you know, did want it to work out. It just has it. So, you know, it's his right to request it. It's now up to the Jets to find the deal that they feel is most suitable in order for them to make it happen. So, and that is crucial for perhaps the future of players like Marjory Flee or Josh Morrissey or go right down the list of defense. Call Connor, who just signed a massive deal, Dylan Sanberg, like players who's contracts for up in a couple of years as well. It's interesting right away. It's like, okay, so make your fantasy trade. And the, I mean, Buffalo was an obvious one, right? Because we definitely know that there's interest there. I think a lot of us wonder about New Jersey. I think a lot of us, I think you and I have talked about like, would it surprise anybody to see all the suitors exhaust themselves and Carolina come in with the last minute lowball offer and get them propenities on the dollar because their wind up pegs up again. It would be a very Carolina thing strategically for that to happen. San Jose's name is certainly out there as well. Are there any other sort of Utah would be an absolutely absolutely for Utah as they continue to go big game hunting? I mean, these are the likeliest candidates and I think we always have to keep the caveat open that there is always one dark horse. There is always one that nobody sees coming. But those are the usual suspects for you. Yeah, pretty much. I mean, I think Buffalo would still like to make this happen. I don't know if since the request became public last week that things have escalated. He also made it at a time where everybody's kind of coming out of hibernation. Getting back into it. I guess we should have this discussion now and at least start things off. But everyone's coming back from the cottage. Everyone's starting to dial in again and figure out what's going on. I guess I should prepare a camp start soon. But I think the Sabers would still like to make this happen. I still believe that they've got the assets that can probably pull this off. For me, it's going to come down to if it's not the Sabers who's going to step up and try to make that happen. Is it Carolina? Is it Jersey? Is it the sharks? Is it the mammoth? Some of these teams have gold tenders that they can flip back. We know skimmers there. But are there other options that they can include? Is it UPL from the Sabers? Is it Kachekov from Carolina? Is it Belamaki, whomever? You know, it's -- and then what else? I think the Sabers -- excuse me, the Jets still want to cross off a few -- or check off a few boxes on their list, especially on that second line. You don't want to put all your eggs in your first round basket. Even though they like the kid and signed them pretty quickly. I still think there are other holes on this team that they want to fill. And if they can utilize Hellabuck in order to do it, that's obviously what they're trying to do. And that would be for them, the home run, given the circumstances. If it's Buffalo, it's got to be Lion, no. I mean, Ukepeca-Lukin and Snowtrade just kicked in. I know it was like five team, but still -- No offense, Winnipeg. But Winnipeg's on a lot of the no traits. Yes. It would have to be Lion. And then you'd be looking at Lion and Skinner as your battery for the Winnipeg jets. Again, if it's Buffalo, and if there is -- Right. Now, again, the other thing that we had, I think we should disqualify from this too, is we could see like a weird Goldie carousel trade. You know, like, I've always wondered about Alex -- I'll be honest with you, I've always wondered about Alex Lion. Ever since Sunny Metta took over the New Jersey Devils of Alex Lion ending up there with the association going back to the Florida Panthers, and then you run with Jake Allen and Alex Lion. As a combination this year. And all of a sudden, like, no, you know what? Maybe -- maybe that's -- maybe that's a good looking tandem. And then Halabuck ends up on the Buffalo Sabers. Like, I don't know that this necessarily is just going to be a deal that's made between two teams. It's all I'm getting. Right. And the other curious part for me, and I don't know what his no trade looks like, but Jordan Bitington also has a no trade. He's in the final year of his contract. We talked a lot about him going into July or into the draft. And I don't think the Jets necessarily need to your point. I don't think they need a goalie coming back in Halabuck trade. But are they going to shift elsewhere or look elsewhere or platoon this situation and go, OK, here's what we've got in this basket. And here's what we've got in that basket. That basket's going to include a goalie that we don't necessarily need. You know, coming back in a Halabuck type deal. Is it a Jack Quinn that's part of a combination? Is it, you know, one of their younger kids, one of their draft picks that's going to be a centerpiece along with, you know, whoever at McLeod or Quinn or whomever, that they potentially include in a deal if it's the Sabers. let me throw an aim at you here. I wonder if this is a no fly zone. I mean, there's just some players that are, but you know that Winnipeg would be interested in Josh Don. Well, yes. Would that be a no fly zone? Do you think for the Buffalo Sabers? Considering that trade, that trade is essentially the Josh Don't trade. Yeah. Yeah. No, I mean, I would be I'd be surprised if the Sabers would consider something like that. They locked them up to his to his brand new contract. They really liked the kid. It was like quasi coming out party in the playoffs for him, for Benson, for some of those guys. And I mean, we all know what they were capable of, but I just mean on a national scale. There's always a couple players on the national side of things that really just become the spotlight goers for a lot of these and, you know, country Miller with the Canes over their couple and so on and so on. So you always have those kinds of guys. I'd be I'd be pretty surprised if the Sabers go in that direction. And, you know, from their side of things, I mean, they liked their team, they like what they've got. It's not like they're going to have to, you know, the jets aren't forcing anybody's hand here. They're not in a position, a position, excuse me, of strength in making a deal. Now, again, request first to band, there's there's, you know, I think there's also an understanding, and even though it's, it's, you know, not ideal that, hey, if this doesn't work similar to Dylan Larkin, if we can't figure this out, if we can't maximize, you're going to have to wait this out a little bit. Now, perfect scenario, we get this done before the season. We get full perfect scenario, we're done before camp. But, you know, everybody's got to be prepared for the possibility that they're going to have to roll into camp and perhaps start the season, even though that's not what everybody would want, given the circumstances and under these situations. But nature of the beast, these guys aren't going to just give away Larkin or give away hella buck, just because they've requested a trade or want a trade. They've got also, obviously, that's their job taken to a camp what's best for their teams. We know it's going to be miserable at inditroid, little Caesars, when if Dylan Larkin's not gone every time it is going to be so, as I was saying on I, it's going to take some majors to kindling to calm everyone down to the position where Dylan Larkin can essentially play his way into a trade. I think we all understand that. It's going to be, it's going to be really, really tough for that player. Do you think it'll be the same way for hella buck and Winnipeg? Well, I, I hope not, because B, I think the way that he approached this has, it was significantly different. You know, he reiterated his, what the organization is meant to him, right? He tried to anyway. And I don't know, I haven't gotten the sense, and it's still relatively fresh. It's only, it's not hasn't even been a week. But I kind of, I like, I haven't gotten the same indication or inkling that the Jets fans have turned on hella buck the way wings fans turned on, on Larkin. And I understand why inditroid. I get it. But I think because of the way he kind of cushioned the blow a little bit to say like, you know, I wanted to win here. I'm grateful for the organization. I've loved my time here. It just feels like this is, you know, I gotta take next steps. It seems like that messaging has come across a little bit more delicately with the fanbase and a little more passionately from, or not passionately, what's the word I'm looking for? There was some compassion in his messaging that was delivered to the fanbase. And I think, I think some people, and again, I haven't gotten a full scope on how things are going in Jetsland right now. But at least the initial has been not nearly the same type of, um, grab your pitch forks and, and let's go after this guy kind of thing like it's been inditroid at least optically. But, you know, if, again, if it doesn't happen and, and depending on how he kind of expresses himself entering camp, if he does, and the trade's not done, I think a lot of that will dictate whether or not we do see the pitch forks and, and the fire sticks come out. Whereas in Detroit, I just, I don't know. I haven't got at least online and, you know, everything's right online, uh, that, that the fanbase has, um, I don't know if there's coming back from that on large outside, quite frankly. I, I, again, that is going to happen. That's going to take some major polishing. Yeah. That's going to take a major, major shine. Uh, and I think everybody in Detroit sort of has to be on the same page, including the fans that if you want this guy out, he's got to play his way out that, and then I don't know, that's going to, that's going to be so weird. Let me ask you this. What do you do? What do you do? Yeah. And if he does start five, can't start see, what do you do with the C? Well, that's the, for me, it's off. You can't have, you can't, you can't have a captain that's requested a tray. Like that, that, to me, that's, that's the, that's the, I mean, Shayna was on a golden was on last week saying that it creates more of a side show. And it's, it's, you know, throw another log on the fire, squeeze the gasoline on it. Like it just makes it even that much bigger. I just don't think you can do that. So I think fans would push, but not that you make, sorry, hockey man, you can't make all of your decisions as a team based on what your fans want. What's your line? You start listening to your fans too long soon. You'll be sitting with them. I don't think you can do that. Yeah. I think you take it off right away. I don't, then I put it this way. If you're lark, you wouldn't want it. Yeah. I mean, because how do you walk in the room with an incredible ability? How do you walk into the room with any credibility? Here we go, boys, let's win this one. Yeah. For what? He understands that too. I think he gets it. Like, now, would you, would you slap it on somebody, not slap me, you know what I mean? Would you give it to somebody else? Would somebody else take the honors? Okay. Wait until he's out. Yes. Great question. I'm so glad you got us there because yes. That's exactly my thought. Not just right away because you want to talk about creating it even more bizarre dynamic in the room. Right. The first thing that everybody needs is some, like once it's over, you need some distance, right? And right now, like, so I'm with you, when it's over, then after a certain amount of time, then you do the see. I think you show up in the room. And I was like, Hey, Mo, I think you got my jersey. Yeah. Actually, no, Dylan, I don't, man, this is, that's, that's me now. My dry clean is going to be ready at 2 30. If you can go pick that up for me, that would be wonderful. So what's the cascade in Winnipeg, then? What does this mean for shafely? What does it mean for more? What does it mean for Dylan Sanbury? Well, make this the last part of our conversation. But I always, I think all of us are curious about the butterfly effect here. So he puts that trade request out. And so what does that mean for everybody else in that room? Well, I mean, I think, first of all, I think they were well aware of the situation, well, in advance of this becoming public. That said, I think, I think a lot of it just depends on what this return is going to be. And what it looks like. And how this, like, if they bring back pieces that are going to allow this team, or at least give them the opportunity to be competitive again, and to get back on track and to give cool, prophetic, some, some assistance on that second line. Like if Connor and shafely and Morris see those guys do what they're supposed to do and what they did last season, especially shafely, what a career year, you can replicate that. If the other guys can get on track, if Connor is in the 40 goal range, if Morris sees, you know, pulling that blue line, Sandberg and everybody else and propheties taking the next step, because he's got reinforcements and velardies contributing and so on and so on. Then I think everybody's okay. I think they're, I think there's like, how Connor made that commitment last summer, shafely made it the same time as Halibuk. You know, Morris, he's got a couple years left and what not. I think everybody just wants to see how this is going to unfold and what pieces are we bringing in to keep us competitive. And if they stay competitive, I think everybody is still on board. But if the return is a futures type return, which I don't anticipate happening, but I'm not the one doing the talk. So we'll see. If it's futures driven, then I think that changes the whole mindset of the main guys in Winnipeg. I don't expect that to be the case. Yeah. But there's always that possibility. If that's the best option available, if this does drag on, do you see that? Well, we talked about earlier. We'll end it on this one. What I, what we talked about earlier about the agreement with the contract. Hey, look, we're going to give you a term. Family's going to be great. It's a really nice number. Happy to have you here. We got to calm our fan base down. Did they have the same conversation with Shafely? Because you remember, wasn't that long ago? It's like, oh, yeah, you know what? Shafee's got a trade double nickel. Shafee's got to trade the gold tender. Like we all thought there we go. Where's he going to be in Philadelphia? Is he going to go to Boston? Where's Shafely going to remember how all the, how much airtime did we use talking about this Shafely trade that never happened? Instead, instead, they got a contract extension done. But I wonder if the same conversation with Hellebuck happened with Shafely? And if that is true, what then? Yeah. Like that one, I don't know. That one, I'm not sure. But if they, if they did, then, then, then it's a, it's a very short leash as to what happened. Because you can't go back to back on these types of things. You can't move Hellebuck in the next week, move Shafely. Because they are going through your full, like that's a full rebuild and the messaging that you're sending to your fan base and everything, especially in that market shifts entirely. I think that is entirely possible. They did that too. Sure. They could have had the same, same conversation with Kyle Conner. We're going to sign you this eight year deal. We're giving you 11 million bucks. And in a few years, if it's not working out of the team. then, you know, we'll do you solid, we'll revisit this as well. That's all possible. But again, I just think if they bring back, you know, immediate help, it's gonna push this team forward. I think everybody's on the same page, they're gonna roll with this. If not, or if they do and the pieces don't work, that's also a possibility. Then you have that conversation in the offseason, at your exit meetings going, all right, where are we going here? And do we have to look at this? Do I have to take a little look into the mirror before I decide what I want to do, even though they're locked into contracts and all that stuff. It's a sticky situation, but it's realistic. So, I'm tempering a lot of those talks for how's the hellabuck trade gonna look like. And then I think we have a bit of a clear picture as a direction of this team. Yeah. - I'm with you. If his player is in there loading up, and I know Central is a death valley, and I get it, it's hard. But, you know, if we're forget, I think I'd take a swing at it, I think that it calms the waters for the Shafelies and the Sandbergs and the Morrisis. If not, then we have more air time to fill. Dave, great stuff is always pal. We'll catch you soon. - You got it, buddy. See ya. - Dave Peno to DFO Insider from the fourth period. Okay, so the other big story was a big number, 20.4. That is the AAV for the NHL's best offenseman, Cal Macar, personally, as I'm sure. And maybe I got into it with you over of the weekend online. I love this deal because it reinforces what I've been saying for years, and that is players are not general managers. It is not their job to manage the cap. And if there's anybody who deserves a $20 million based on the max in the cap, it is Cal Macar. I still think it's a value, by the way, for the Avalanche year. For comment, does that play by the way? Voice of the Colorado Avalanche, the great Connor McGay-Hee Connor. That's a little bit of a spicy news bit towards the end of last week. At what point, and maybe it was never until we saw it, did you start to think, maybe his number starts with a two? When did you start to think it was it like the Leo Carlson situation, like, oh boy, the numbers are massive now. When did you think that there was gonna be a two involved? - I had one inkling at Maclin Celebrini, and then I said, "Yeah, it's gonna be fine." And then, when it came out, I was half surprised that, 'cause we're not used to seeing $20 million contracts in the National Hockey League. But because of who it was, Cal Macar, when it's all said and done, could be the best defenseman of all time in NHL history. I don't even think that's hyperbole at this point, then it makes sense. And what happens is you get the eight years, which is the important part, because $20.4 million A-A-V and eight years, assuming the cap is trending in the direction that it's going now, like you just said, it's actually gonna look really, it's actually gonna be a value contract for the car. - I think it is. - All right, you know what's funny? I was having a conversation last week with a manager, and we were talking about where it's heading and cap floors and all these things, and he said, you know, internally, we think that the salary cap in five years could be 150, and five years could be 150. Like, we're not used to this. Like, we're used to flat cap, and we're used to COVID cap. So all of this, it can be like a real, what a Teddy Alice, the great boxing trainer, used to refer to body shots as water in the basement. Oh, water in the basement, water in the, like, so some of these contracts are like, oh man, water in the basement, the foundation's gonna be wrecked, nothing can happen, the house is gonna crumble, and I keep saying to myself, this is not, it looks like a water in the basement, kind of contract, but it's not. And as a matter of fact, the fact that he did it now, and didn't wait until next year, and the cap had, we estimate, 113, if he was gonna take the similar amount, it'd be $22 million. - Yeah, and look, he's not just at, he's at 20.4, which is just shy of the max, right? Which is $20.8 million, which he was eligible to sign for. So, I'm not saying, like, $400,000 isn't gonna make a lot of money for the older. - You know, who's buying dinner all season, by the way? - For probably the next, at least $20.3 million, when Nathan McKinnon is up. But to your point, teams like the Colorado Abelage needed to be $150 million, they do, because McKinnon is up in 2031. And like Joe Sack said, at the end of last season, after the ads lost to Vegas, he said, as long as you have McKinnon and McCarr, on your team, then you are in a championship window. And that was the plan with McCarr. This was always going to get done. And I think Kayle McCarr has deserved whatever he was gonna get. And I think the same goes for Nathan McKinnon. Those are two players who I think will have been here and will always be here in Colorado. - You have two future Hall of Famers, two at the best in their position, in the history of the NHL period. And for anyone to grumble about it and selfish players, all these types of essay, it sounds like you're asking for something in exchange for nothing. Like I think that in some ways Connor, and I think we all understand why he did it. But the McDavid contract, I think spoiled some people about expectations. And that was unique circumstance. And we can look at it cynically and say, well, you know what? From a marketing point of view, from a public perception point of view, all McKinnon did is he gave himself a soft landing if slash when he leaves. He could talk about what he did and the financial sacrifices he made. And it gives him a little bit of an exit strategy. Should he decide to take the trap door? And I think that that kind of poised in some thinking, to be honest with you. And that's why Leo Carlson was jarring. That's why Macklin Celebreni was jarring. And that's why now Kale McCarrer is jarring. Like if McDavid had taken the max and then Kale McCarrer took the max, I don't think the reaction would have been the same. Would have been like, you know what, yeah. 'Cause everyone would have been used to the number 20. Like someone's gotta do the anthropology, right? Someone's gotta be the anthropologist and come back to the village and share the findings. And Kale McCarrer was the first. And now he's barred up back and like, look guys, we can do this. We can get a two. See that, there's a two. We can do this now. And now he'll get all the darts initially selfish, played over a team, all these types of things. People losing sight of the fact, as you mentioned, like he's gonna go down as one of the greatest defensemen of all time, minimum. And I personally have Lidstrom in that rarefied heirs as the number one, but who's to say that he doesn't tickle that by the time his career is over? And you know what, you should be lucky that you're in a position where you have, you have a $20 million player. - Right. - Like you're the avalanche. You have a $20 million player, man. - And you have two, really, with Nathan McKinnon, who's making 12 and a half million dollars way underpaid until 2031. So teams who have multiple superstars, and most of, most do, I think, if you wanna boil it down in the National Hockey League, most don't get the timing to a point where you can pay, where you have to pay one, but you don't have to pay the other one for a long time. And the gap in between that is rarely more than a year or two, and to basically have four seasons now, where you have that flexibility to put more pieces in, where the cap is floating around 113. Maybe towards 120, 122 at that point. That's where the avalanche have locked out. And again, nobody is cheering more for a $150 million salary to have at that point, because the water in the basement, that salary cap, the higher it goes up, the harder that sump pump around the foundation is working, the water's coming out of the basement. - So what is it, so we're just talking about the Dave Peña, it's a really good extended metaphor there. I'm impressed, but not surprised. You're talented, you're a talented broadcaster. - Yeah, that's good. - You know, I'll tell you what, Dave and I were just talking about the cascade effect of what this means on the rest of the Winnipeg Jets, with the trade request from Conor Hallebuck, et cetera. But what does this mean now? What does this number mean now? We've talked about it sort of in terms of what's next for Nathan McKinnon. I think that what Kale McCarr now has done is softened the blow for a lot of other players that are going to get into that Hello Quinn Hughes, sorry about your luck Bill Garen. Like that now, that blow has now been softened, but what does it mean for players on the avalanche? What does this mean for the team? Let me pause there. The one criticism that we saw from Pillar to Post from STEM to Stern is, oh, he's putting himself above the team. You can't win a Stanley Cup with a $20 million hockey player, et cetera. How would you address that criticism? - I think that you, these are uncharted waters, really, for the national hockey league. First of all, the type of talent, in this package, we haven't really seen in our lifetimes. I mean, you're, you're hearing anecdotes about, you know, how a Gordie Hall changed the game for a lot of us, we're not able to see Gordie Hall play live. We're not able to see Bobby Orr play live. So this is this version and it's obviously completely different economical landscape than it was back then too. So this is something you can't compare anywhere else. Knowing Kale, there's no selfishness about him. I don't think I think he wants to win, but he also knows his value. And I think there's something respectable about that. And again, you're looking at this huge number that's in there right now in this landscape where it changes over, again, like I said, at the beginning eight years. So the important question right now, I think is the next UFA piece, which is not Nathan McKinnon. it is our Tory Leckonon. What does that mean for one of the most important players on this team and his extension, he's a UFA after this year, everybody under contract, but basically your biggest question next year is our Tory Leckonon? How do you fit a Leckonon contract into next year when you start to pay that $20.4 million? I think that's the biggest question. And security for Joe Sackick who went out and got our Tory Leckonon in the buildup of the 2022 Stanley Cup championship, one of of not the biggest peace I thought in winning that Stanley Cup over Tampa Bay Lightning. So I think that's the biggest question. I don't think selfishness even comes into play. I didn't think that one time for Kailma Carr here, I think he knows now that he has to earn it. It's like the end of saving private Ryan. They're on the bridge and coming back. And he says, earn this. You have to earn this. And that's how Kailma Carr is now an aged Matt Damon in the cemetery of Normandy. OK, so let me go out this from a different angle. And as a somewhat of a quasi, I would never call myself a historian, but someone who's interested in these types of things, and specifically the history of the two world wars, I respect that analogy. Let me throw another thing at you, old carny terms, OK? Old Carnival terms. And one of the famous ones is, well, we gain on the roundabout, we lose on the swings. And that's the story of a salary cap. Hey, we're doing great on the roundabout, but everyone who's spending on the roundabout is not spending on the swings. When we gain on the roundabout, we lose on the swings. Once upon a time, pre-lock out 2004, sorry to remind everybody, Bob Goodenauer and he ran the union would always talk about it. Every top player has to move the bar for everybody else, make more room for everybody to come underneath. It was Wayne, it was Mario, it was Messier, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, these types of things. The salary cap, you can't do that, because what we gain on the roundabout, we lose on the swings is a finite amount of money we have in a hard cap. It is not a luxury tax situation. Is there a place in the avalanche lineup that you say, if the roundabout is Calmacar, we gain on the roundabout, we lose on the swings. Where is the area that might take the hits? Is there an obvious one? Or do we just have to wait to see it play out? I think we've started to see it a little bit. That would probably be the bottom six for me, where you have, and Val and Chuchkin doesn't fit into this. Because Chuchkin now it swarts in, and you could put him third or second line wherever he's going to fit the best. But with Val and Chuchkin, Jack Dury, Ross Colton, no longer on this team, you brought in youth and very cheap contracts with LaRouz, Fetchkov, from the Nashville Predators. TJ Hughes, University of Michigan, is he going to work out? You also have another Marine and Gavin Brindley here. You have cheap, but very good options to fill in your bottom six as a lineup in 26/27 for the Colorado Avalanche. So I think we've seen sort of signs already as to where you're having to make a little bit of sacrifice, because remember, and I left on Nicholas Waw next year for an extension for the Avalanche, which I don't think is entirely fair. It's not just our Tury Alecton. And I think Nicholas Waw was a fantastic pickup and thrived on this team. Did not thrive in Toronto. Someone just described him as a Western conference player. I need a backtrack and put him into the mix as well. But I would say that the bottom six of the Avalanche is where, at the moment, you've had to make some sacrifices contract-wise. Jack Durer was not going to get the money that he wanted here. Ross Colton was making over $4 million, which wasn't living up to the production that he put into this team. Not necessarily his fault, injury, written over two, three seasons span. So I think the short answer, in my long answer to your question, is that it's the bottom six at the moment. - Yes. - So let me take that one step further, because as when I first saw the deal, after I picked up my jaw and it started to figure, okay, so what is this going to mean internally for the Avalanche? The one department that I thought, right away who looked at this and said, okay, more pressure for us is the analytics department. And the one thing that the Avalanche have done, like at the elite level, okay? Like, I put them right in there with Carolina. Smart bets on the bottom six. Real and Parker Kelly is an obvious one. Or on the bowling line with Sam Mullinsky too, who gets his win in the lineup and it helps force a move with someone like Sam Gerard. Like, the one thing that the Avalanche and their analytics department has been able to do year in and year out, is identify players who have a higher ceiling than is being realized on other teams and bring them in at a very cost-effective number essentially because the team they were with didn't believe in them. I still, and again, I always point to Parker Kelly. Like, pull the trigger on Parker Kelly. That is such a Picasso, right? Like, when you look at player acquisition, there's a lot of them here, right? And every 100%. There's not a soul on earth who hates Parker Kelly and I can guarantee you that. And you can ask anybody in the NHL, nobody dislikes them either. It's a perfect pick up for Colorado, sorry to interrupt. And so no, but my point is, okay, so to offset the number, the analytics department is like, okay, we got our work really cut out for us. You're like, they need more production, we have a production on the ice, they need more production like that from their analytics department, agree, disagree. Yeah, 100% agree because in this new world that we live in both with Cap and with information, I think you have to win both battles. And Joe Sack at Christmas Farrell and now with Nashville have done a great job. Andrew, the assistant GM has done a wonderful job. He came in from Central Registry at the National Hockey Lab. Nobody knows, Cap's better than Andy does. So that was a huge acquisition by the front office that nobody really talks about, but it's so important nowadays. But then you take Eric and his department in analytics and it said, okay, in order for that office down the hall there to work, this office here needs to get them the assets and the things that they need to make that work. And I think that used to be on two different sides of the building. And now they're right next to each other, which is what creates successful organization. And the avalanche with a team that hosted the analytics conference for all sports this year at ball arena was there helped with the panel. That's no accident. So I think that the analytics department knows that they've done a good job up to this point, but with the eliteness of McKinnon, Macar, you had Devon, Taves, Marty, Nages, all those contracts have been done, but it squeezes everything. And when you get squeezed, you need to find those diamonds in the rough as we continue our movie theme with Aladdin and that's the analytics department now. - You're just waiting for at the end of the contract and his press conference, Kale Macar, just to blurt out the aristocrats. 20 million, the aristocrats. Okay, let me close on this one. What's, how is this going over with the fan base? I mean, certainly the fan base is eight, thrilled the player is staying. As Joe Sackick has always said, he's retiring in Abby Stain, here's an avalanche. Remember the Colorado avalanche? How's the, what's the fan base done with this? - Oh, fan base is we were gifted on a silver platter at number four overall in the 2017 NHL entry draft, Kale Macar, after Miro Haskinin, after Nico Hescher, after Nolan Patrick. And I, I always wanted to this day what, I mean, Jersey seems pretty happy, but Philadelphia, Dallas to some extent, it's hard to play, you know, 2020 hindsight, but the fan base knows what they have here in Kale Macar. And I think they're like, you know what? It doesn't really matter. And to Joe's comment at the end of the season, when you have Kale Macar and Nathan McKinnon, you're always in a championship window. So you do whatever you can to keep them. So I don't think there's one like, well, that seems like a lot. I don't, everyone's like, yeah, that makes sense. And that's been the overall emotion reaction here the past couple of days. - And again, like I actually think he's worth more than he took. Like when you look at it, when you look at production, like I'm sorry, like you want great hockey players, they don't come cheap. Like you gotta pay for them at the end of the day. Cardless and great, as always, enjoy an abbreviated training camp and pre-season schedule as we get going a little bit early this season with 84 games. You'll be well, always great to catch up, my friend. - Thanks Jeff, good to see you. - There he is. The great Connor McGay, he played by play voice of the Colorado avalanche talking with the Kale Macar contract, 20.4 AAV. And again, like I come back to this same idea. I think one of the, and I don't know how they did it, maybe players did it to themselves. I don't know how the NHL did it, coming out of the lockout of 2005. Somewhere along the way, they convinced players that they were in charge of running their team's salary cap. I got news for you, they're not. And you know, I also have a wondered, I'm gonna go historical here on you a little bit, 2005. If Bob Goodnow didn't resign, and I use that in the Ironic quotation marks, resign. who said stabbed in the back? Didn't resign as executive director of the players association. If he still was the executive director when the salary cap came in, if the movement would have been okay, the NHL got their salary cap boys, but no discounts, no bargains, none at all. We're gonna do our best to try to change the system. We want a luxury tax system, which is I didn't say enough what Gary Bettman wanted in 1994 during the first lockout and Bob Goodnow charmed him into believing that he didn't need one. All those other leagues need one, but you don't need one, Gary. If Goodnow would have been the executive director in 2005, if it would have been no discounts, not a chance, we're gonna bully our way to get this salary cap changed. By the way, hey, here's one for you. Just thinking about this talking to Connor and Zach, I love it. You can book Connor McGathey like five days a week, and I will be thrilled, because he's fantastic always. Do you remember the ranges for the salary, I don't even know if you were born then, I'm sorry, of the original salary cap? 2005? No, no, but I remember, I think you brought it up to me about what they looked like previously. What was it? What was the range? The upper end was 39. Yeah, and the low end was 21. Kill McCarrer. It's 20 points more. The low end of the salary cap. Holy shit. Hang on, let me, let me check that. Let me just, you're filibuster for a second. Hang on. I mean, the thing I also find amazing about that is how that salary cap came into play. When previously, we were hearing about players area 21.5, 21.5 was the low and 939 was the ceiling. It's amazing to me too that they got to that point where it dropped down to that, because you correct me if I'm wrong, were there not players who were making upwards of five? It was massive. It was the five to 10. And then how did you get to 39 as the max? Amnesty Bios. I think the trite's the trite in New York. I think fill it up all up around like between like $70 and $90 million. They were all just blowing their brains out. It was insane. It was Amnesty Bios. Daryian Hatcher, I remember, was the King because he had played Oh, Daryian had played one year with the trite at big money and then got bought out and then like a day later signed a massive contract with the filibuster flyers. I think like over the court, no one made more money in the NHL. I think over the court, span of like seven days in Daryian Hatcher was something like just completely absurd because he got his Amnesty Bios and then he signed right away a big deal with the filibuster flyers because the flyers didn't think that the new standard for officiating crack down an obstruction was going to just get the officials going to call it for a month and then let the hooking and holding continue. So they got all these like massive defensemen that couldn't turn and weren't mobile at all because it's just not like our defensemen did cross check you into hell. And then they kept up the standard on an obstruction. I understand that that's the reality, but it is just an insane concept to think that there were players who were so valuable basically if the rulebook was thrown out. They were like, well, if we just don't worry about any penalties and we can do all this insane stuff out there, we can attempt murder. You are worth a whole lot to me, sir. And then also they were like, well, actually, no, you're going to be penalized for that. And they went holy shit. We have these guys who can't skate. What happened? They can't turn boss. We have four guys who can't turn left. They're burning guys to the 10 million year. If he can pitch fork the guy into the third row, the stands. But once that's out of the equation, I don't know if he can play in the league. That was hockey. Yes. What I grew up with, man. It's a hockey. You must come back like games in the 80s and 90s and go like, what the hell is this? What the hell? I was actually having this conversation every rush last week. I was talking to on Thursday night or Friday. I was talking to some of my buddies about the old rock and sock and videos. And there's a lot of good stuff and funny stuff in there. But if you watch the hitting sections of how many times are there guys who basically are like dead on the ice, you know, I'm exaggerating it. But they're just laying their motionless. And some guy has come in and didn't stop moving his feet from center ice. And Don Cherry is like, there you go. Wait, I sent a message. And it's just like, that's like a 10 games suspension today. That's just how that's the comment. I got to go watch them. There's some insane hits. That's just how it was. Okay. So let me throw, let me throw a counterfactual at you then. So a couple of years ago, I remember going back just summertime board watching the hockey games, watching the 86 Stanley Cup Final Montreal on Calgary and watching guys trying to skate through the neutral zone. And they've got, you know, a stick on each hip and they're being like held and pulled down no whistle, no call whatsoever. They like bend their knees to try to fight through it through the neutral zone. Fast forward to now. If a player even feels a tap on his hip, what does he do? He's going down. He goes down to drop penalty. So what would you rather see someone trying to skate bend their knees and fight through it or the guy who dives? No, I get it completely. And that's one of my frustrations when the World Cup was on. People like, everyone was laughing watching me watch the World Cup all my friends around because something would happen. I'm like, this is a joke. Well, that's part of the game. And it's creeping into hockey here now to to an extent, but it's embarrassing. It's embarrassing. That's what it is. You know, Jeff, actually, to the point I was watching a clip, it popped up. I think it might have been DFO Edmonton or somebody posted a clip. They do these like throwbacks and it was struddy. I'm, I'm pretty sure strud, who was for those who don't know Jason Strudwick. Sorry. And it's all the friends who was struddy, killing a guy from the hash marks. Was it razor or was robbery behind the behind the net out to the other corner? And he just had his stick hooked around the guy's waist and was basically skiing behind the guy. All right, like, Puck was dumped into his corner, he lets the guy go first, holds on to him all the way around rides him into the boards different time. I loved it. All the growing up, I didn't know anything different. I look back now and I'm like, I watched them shitty hockey for a long time, man. I watch really bad cold ending. I watch shitty hockey. But it's going to be the same as what we're watching now with 20 years from now, Jeff, we're going to look back on this and say, wow, we watched some shitty hockey. It may not be to the same extreme, but I think that there's evolution that's going to come in it. It's going to happen. We're all going to look at it and say it's very different game. What's it going to look like? Again, I have no clue what it's going to look like because I honestly, I can remember being a kid and watching Canada Cup 87 and then World Cup 96 and thinking, this is the fastest, it's human possible. It gets that it's possible for a human to skate. This is so fast. This is so quick. I can't mind you. The best players in the game of the time. I kept thinking, there's no way this game could be faster. This is the fastest a human being can possibly skate. I watch it now. It's still great hockey and the emotion is fantastic. But I'm like, yeah, maybe you should just like shut your mouth, America, but this is the fastest anyone gets. What are you going to do? It's going to be 17 years old. Yeah. No, it's a fairer evaluation. I look at it and I think this the same. And then you take a step back and realize, hey, like tech's going to change blades will change the way to the boots will change. Maybe someday the shin pads size will change. Like everything gets narrowed down the more aerodynamic fact it player training will change. I don't know. I'm speaking obviously like very broad where it's like, okay, yeah, thanks, Mr. obvious things changed. But I don't know what they'll be, but there's going to be an evolution of the game. We're a look back and I'll be I'll be sitting here hosting the show talking to me. I'll be taking your job. I'm going to take out burgers first. I'm going to request your job. Yeah. Request your job. And I'll be doing this and saying, wow, you wouldn't believe the game I was watching 20 years ago. This crap, I can't freaking believe that. I mean, I wonder if by then because the game just does get that much more faster, but I'm assuming the size of the rank is going to stay the same, not that I want an international ice hockey size, but like the finish the finish size would be nice little more room on the outside, but if they're not going to do that, then I wonder if they're just like going to yank officials off the ice. To create more or less bodies. Yeah. Because like if it's going to be that fast and that sudden, yeah, I don't know. I have no idea what this thing's going to look at. Are they going to, are we going to go to four players this high? Laugh while you want, but they used to laugh while you want these to be seven, but that's that's for me. I know that's when the game was outdoors, Merrick. I know. I didn't have her sticks and then have to go. go chop down trees to make sticks. I know no raises and I get it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, but game change. - Yep, yeah, it's, you're right. Yeah, I think five's a good number. I think we let's leave it at five, but okay. - No, there's always an interesting conversation. - The other thing too, if you want to increase, if you have the same size of the ring, but you want to increase the space, you get rid of the lines. That's a way to do it. - I know. Yeah, you've brought up some different. - It's not different. That's the. - That's the. - That stuff. Again, I don't want to dwell on it, but I'll give you the one example I have. If I handed you a blank piece of paper and said here, Zach, here's a piece of paper and a pen. I have this idea for a game that's played on ice. There are five players aside and there's a puck. We'll call it. A flat ball. Okay, you make the rules. Would you play it offside? It would even into your brain to think like, "Hmm, we need some zones where we can stop play." Or just like continuous flow sport. - Would you free it offside? - Probably more continuous. - If there was new history, no history, weighing you down or clouding your thoughts. - Yeah. - No, you wouldn't. - That's a good point. - I think I probably wouldn't. - Yeah. - Nobody would. - You're lying to yourself. - She's lying to them. There's no way. There's no way. I really like that one. There's no way that anybody would create offside. Anyhow, a quick thought to wrap up here on our final two topics. It really are only two topics of the day, which are the massive ones. And that is Connor Hellerbuck and Kelmockar. - Yeah, I mean, I just reiterate, I think that with the Hellerbuck situation, and the point you brought up with Dave and Dave said, he thinks this is the case. I think that makes a lot of sense. - Yeah. - In my opinion, as long as he's not saying, you can only trade me to these two, three teams. But I think that that point, it kind of starts to become problematic. Maybe it's the wrong way to put it, but that's kind of the direction I go where it's like, okay, now we're just getting these guys where they will only go to these spots. It hurts the team they leave. We're also seeing it. So a little bit of a bias from my end, but it's Canadian teams that get hurt on the way out. Because a player says I'll only go to ABC, and then you go, what the hell? ABC can only offer me this much. And I have to take it. If that's the case, then I think it's tough. But I completely get it from his perspective where he says, I want to win and I'm 33 years old. Why don't we be competitive again? And if it's not within the next two to three, maybe it's time for me to jump ship. The kill McCarr thing, I agree with you. It's not up to players to manage the cap. And see Cramer and the chat is disagreeing here a little bit. He brought up Jeff. If a player like McCarr takes the full bag and then the team struggles to add necessary pieces at the deadline due to being cap strapped, it is your belief the player holds no responsibility. Question mark. Sounds like it's a, that's a general manager problem. Or that's an nature of the salary cap problem. Yeah, I'm sorry, I'm how is, how is the player responsible? Yeah, again, did the player, hang on, hold on, hold on. Now, I haven't looked at the contract. Like I have, I'll full disclosure, I have not seen the deal. But did kill McCarr sign himself to the contract or is there another name on the deal? Oh, there is. Oh, so Colorado agreed that this, oh, okay. All right, I just wanted to make, again, having not seen the contract. Yeah, Colorado looked at that and said, yes. Yeah, exactly. Okay, that's not his, again, not his problem. Again, there are plenty of, there are plenty of moments in everyone's job where you're like, not my problem, not my issue, not my problem. And I still think he's, I still think you're getting value for that number. He's worth more than $20 million. When you look at production and what he's worth, they go, well, look at down the sessions analysis about how we places, that's an easy and obvious one to follow. And he's not the only one. I hate to break it to everybody. You have like the best defenseman in the world, Colorado. You have the best defenseman in the world. It's not gonna be cheap, but that's okay. 'Cause you got the best defenseman in the world. We're from the have. Yeah, so you pay the value. Yeah, but you don't, you could go to the top guys at eight. But yeah, right, exactly. Exactly, that's kind of the way I look at it. You got to find the guys who make the most sense for your team to fill in the rest of the salary cap and the rest of the roster spots that you have. That's up to the general manager because that is his job. Is to build the team. With Connor, I mentioned, this puts a ton of pressure on the analytics department. Go find the players that everybody else is missing on. Go find those guys. And historically, Colorado has done a great job of doing that. Carolina are the master class. And we saw that in a culminated with a Stanley Cup. But Colorado are elite at finding players that others have missed on for the longest time. Now, keep doing it and do more of it. That's the challenge. That's your challenge. And if you don't want to sign the player at the value of which he wants his contract to be at, let's look at a similar comparable situation that I think may be a team like Colorado actually has experienced before with a guy like Mikko Rantonen. Then you take the piece and you move the piece and you acquire assets back that you think will help the team. If you don't think the player at the number he wants will help your team. You can move off of the player and get other assets that you believe will help your team. You are allowed to do that. That is the job of the general manager. And I mean, I think it's like what we talk about with Tolsky. I know you brought up the example of Carolina, but to even further it, it's like a puzzle in a sense. Like you have to be a problem solver. You have to make these things fit at the size of the puzzle piece. How did the other things fit around them? Where does everyone else go? How do you complete the entire picture? Okay, Kail MacArthur's puzzle piece, Jeff. It's now this big. Maybe Parker Kelly's is a little bit smaller and in McKinnon's a little bit smaller. You got to make them fit together now. - I don't know why it's animosity towards the player. When it's Joe Sackic who signed this contract, like if anything, should it not be like, if again, if you don't like the deal, Joe Sackic, what are you doing? Not O player's greedy. Because when you say player's greedy, what it feels like is you understand how great this player is, you just don't want to pay for it. You want him to give you a bargain, like a significant, and that's why I think that McDavid kind of wrecked it in some ways for a lot of these guys. 'Cause now the blow is tough. Really, like Conor McDavid should be the one with the first 20 in front, like the first two in front of his contract. But if you're gonna criticize anyone for this deal, don't criticize the player. He's not the one paying the money, okay? And I happen to think that this is a really good deal for the avalanche. Great deal for the player, really good deal for the avalanche. They have the best defenseman in the world. - Yeah. - You got the player. Now, it's up to Joe Sackic to go find players to compliment all of this. It's not up to Kale McCarrer to necessarily make Joe Sackic's job easier. It's his job to play and it's agent's job to get him the most possible money or the best possible deal. That's it. Everything else is the manager's job. It's not Kale McCarrer's job. - If Kale McCarrer wants to take less money, that's great. - Fine. - Go ahead. - IE, Connor McDavid. Go ahead. If Kale McCarrer doesn't want to, then now it's up to Joe Sackic to figure out how to spend the rest of the money that he has available. Like it's-- - They made a deal. - I'm glad you brought up McDavid, too, because the thing about McDavid is he's like, so singularly focused on the Stanley Cup. Like it's the obsession of all obsessions. This is his white whale and we all stand up. Mcarrer's already won a cup. I don't think we can lose sight of that, too. I think that's part, I wonder if Colorado hadn't won the cup already? Would it still, that's the part of me like, yeah, you can get me on that argument. If you hadn't won a cup already, would it still be 20? I don't know. - But that's his choice. - That's big, so. - That's not because he should take less. That's his choice. - Yeah, actually, I know I've just gone long here, but there's something people have brought up in the chat and I wanted to get your thoughts on it. If you don't mind a couple more minutes on this Jeff. - Don't you know how busy I am on this August 31st? - I know, sorry. The tweet is from Sam Nestler that came out today. They've used multiple sources, have informed DLS underscores stars that the Dallas stars planned to move their game broadcast from victory plus to Amazon Prime video starting this season. Sam also had a follow up tweet that said that he has heard as many as five or more teams could also move to Amazon Prime video as well for this upcoming season. People in the chat have brought this up. It's a big topic online right now. - What are people, because this is to me like the shifting dynamics of broadcasting right now. Like we live in a world of transition. We understand it specifically here in Canada and the US deal that's on the horizon too. And I think that's why one of the reasons why there are NHL's Hustlin to get major market It's like Houston and Atlanta and yes, sorry even if you don't believe in them Arizona back into the mix because they want those markets for TV To me this is just okay. This is the the evolution the complete evolution of the hockey broadcast landscape That's that's all that what are people in the in the chat saying about it. I don't know that there's necessarily a Something major to draw out of this other than you know victory plus has given it the college try with anahime dialysis et cetera and yeah, it's a tough vlog It's a tough vlog The people in the chat haven't really Sited one side or the other on this situation about frustrations or anything about a bunch of people have just brought it up And we're curious if we're gonna comment on it what I've read online so far Jeff is Pretty similar to my I don't know what the future of victory plus is And I guess as someone who works in the industry you hate to see You hate to see any broadcast entity fail Yeah, because bad for yeah, that's a good point. I didn't fall that to be fair. Yeah, it's bad for The only thing that I've seen online and I I experience the same frustration This one's a little easier because I also have this streaming platform already So it was it became as a necessity over the last two years, but um the The variations Of ways that there are to watch a game Sometimes it's not just that you can watch it so many different ways sometimes it's that you have to watch it So many different ways that's the only thing for me where it's a little bit like I've got to get this subscription And that subscription and this subscription to be able to watch it's a lot for people It can price people out which is a little bit concerning as uh, I guess we try to grow the game But other that seems to be the biggest frustration for people But that said I think a lot of people probably already have this for hockey purposes. So maybe that eases the blow I don't know. I suppose with all the different subscriptions It's almost like everything in life is all about timing right like careers about timing your relationships about timing Like how when when you you meet someone when you get a subscription to this place or where you're at critical mass when it comes to something like hockey Like for football like football has hit a certain critical mass where they're just like this enormous volume of fans That consumers from there. I think you can fragment broadcasters And safely say okay, we've got our group under the tent here basically I don't know that hockey's there And that's why I'm always sensitive that's why I'm always sensitive about making it hard For people to either while I am very sensitive about getting them in the arena because the inner arena experience is the best one But even just watching at home like making it more difficult for your fans to watch it And if you want to grow the game and the traditional just get more people under the tent As opposed to get the people under the tent watching or listening longer If you're just looking at bringing in new people You want to make it as easy as possible And as inexpensive as possible And then once you hit a once you hit a critical mass Then I think you you can fragment with different subscriptions But specifically in Canada we're already there Yeah, we're already there and you can make the argument that like yeah, you know what in Canada they're there And so that market will sustain it. I believe we'll see I could be proven wrong I know there's a lot of angry people um about how much it's fragmented and how much is gonna cost I understand all that Whereas stateside there's still there's still fish in the pond Yeah, that's fair and like as you point out yes in Canada for the most part like there's gonna be a lot of people Like me and like you who are Maybe annoying, but you know what we're gonna be doing it because we want to watch hockey Like we have what we have to but like we want to watch hockey So we're gonna do it. We're gonna bite the bullet. We're gonna get the services we need It's more so like I think about the trickle down with like Okay, I'm a new hockey fan and I've been able to turn on my cable every night And it's part of my package and then now also and I turn it on it's like oh, it's gone I'm I don't know where to find this do I want to pay more I maybe not I don't want to turn this into an audit on cbc because I know people get their backs up I'm a pro cbc person, but I don't want to turn this into audited cbc One of the great things about having hockey night in Canada Was everybody could watch it Everybody had access to it and everyone it became part of the national dialogue And everybody had the same frame of reference because everyone was able to watch all the same games on Saturday night And how many hockey fans did that free show create Millions and millions and millions and millions and millions and millions and millions and millions And the penetration was close to coast to coast That's gone now Sad from that it is yeah, it is I don't want to sound like oh old guy married to the old tv model and free tv and Saturday's effort universe Mara get you As far as sustaining the game that property was so valuable Yeah, a making fans are good sustaining because everybody could watch and it was free Saturday nights anyhow Different reality chase a dollar shareholder value. What's the stock price? Yeah Yeah, I get it. I get it. I know old man. Just fish the clouds It's just the innocence of it. I'm like I want everybody people to have it in it to be easy man. It's not the reality That's not how I know Okay, here we go welcome to the next era of nation gear the nation network is partnered with levelware To bring you a whole new standard of apparel premium fabrics elevated fits in more variety than ever before Introducing the limited edition offseason social club collection built for these sports between sports from polo to premium t's Hats hoodies these are pieces that are designed for it to be every be part of sorry for the new tongue Designed for every part of your lifestyle not just game day. I got to get in the game shape here training camps coming Because being a fan isn't just a season. It's who you are head to nation gear dot c a follow nation gear on social and subscribe to our newsletter To be the first to shop new products limited edition collections and exclusive drops All right, Zach that's it for us wrap. Oh, yeah, you got to I was wearing the hoodie yesterday. Yeah, man That's the hoodie or just a sweat. Yeah, I know these things are good. Yeah, the hoodie. Yeah, the hoodies so come the hoodies really good back with the rocket say Back with key. Yeah, they're rotating through. Yeah, so I I went through Kitchener for a long time I was wearing the brand for half for a long time and then I was going through Where's the effort man? I got you ever. I went out of the way to go back. Okay. Yeah, there's the green period out here Yeah, oh look good. And then I pulled up to Kelowna and I was like I think it goes with the the sweater I have on today. So I threw on the rockets at Fresh off the runways of Aurora ladies and gentlemen Sac Phillips Sorry ladies. He's taken sorry Thanks for watching thanks so much for listening on your favorite podcast platform always appreciate especially now even before the seasons getting going You're still with us and hanging in there So it's a good decision and we're happy that we kept the feed hot for the entire summer full-time schedule coming up in a few weeks I think two and then we'll go to our five-day week schedule Still to be determined still to be worked out etc etc etc So thanks for watching. Thanks for listening. Thanks to everybody in the chat especially those who disagree and And throw darts always appreciate those so thank you. Thank you. Thank you And we'll talk to you again I believe tomorrow and then Wushinsky on Thursday Wanted to make sure we got a show in today just because so much happened over the weekend that we didn't want it to Sit any longer until we had a bark on it. So that was our bark I'm sure you've had yours and we're back to do it again tomorrow. Have a great rest of you there I said 16 hours last night every day this week every day this month I can't get out my head lost I'm vicious day to day Cuz you can count all right I went to the dark man you don't give me a little medicine like now and that's fine I'm not against those methods for the new Kiss me myself and I'll be fixing my mind I'm gonna be on the dish. I'm gonna try to do it. I've been on the dish the way I'm wrong