‘Heat’ With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

[MUSIC] Welcome to the Rewatchables. We're brought to you by Seekig, the presenting sponsor of the Bill Simmons podcast, the easiest way to shop for the best tickets. Thanks to their revolutionary grading system, download the Seekig app today, or go right to Seekig.com, we're also brought to you obviously by TheRinger.com. We are part of the Ringer podcast network. This is one that Chris Ryan and I did back in December of 2015, about three months after I relaunched the Bill Simmons podcast. It was the 20th anniversary of Heat. Chris Ryan loves Heat. I love Heat. We decided, let's do an entire podcast about Heat. It actually became kind of what the DNA of this Rewatchables podcast feed is. We want to do movies that we love, deep dives. There is no deeper, deep dive you will ever hear in your life than this deep dive that Chris Ryan and I did on Heat. It's actually probably my favorite podcast that I've done in the last two plus years ever since I guess minus two minus years, less than two years, whatever. Since we relaunched the Bill Simmons podcast, I love this one. I love that there's someone out there that loves this movie as much as I do. Here we go. Chris Ryan and I are talking about Heat, a rewatchable first ballot Hall of Famer. It's the 28th anniversary of one of my favorite movies of all time. It's called Heat. It starts Robert DeNiro and Al Pacino and about 25 other people that we know and love. It's directed by Michael Mann. I think it's his peak movie. Chris Ryan is here. We've had many arguments about who liked this movie more of me or Chris Ryan and I think it's a tie. It is my favorite movie. It's your favorite movie ever? It is my favorite movie ever. I think it's the film I've seen the most over the course of my life. I'm a little disappointed. People we can record this podcast at BJs, at BJs on Alvarado at 2am. We're stuck here. You'll have to do. How is there stuff happening at Figaro and Flour, but then Venice? At the same time, there's some street name mess ups in the movie. Great mystery of Michael Mann is the way he collapses Los Angeles traffic on itself. Because that's the whole thing with collateral, right? It's like Jamie Foxx is like, I can get you from LAX to downtown in seven minutes. It's like, come on. It sounds great. So I watched it again last night. What are my angles on this movie is that 95 was like the last pre-internet year. There was the internet, but there wasn't. I didn't even have an email address. I don't think it's until 96. Some people did. But it was like, the internet for the next couple of years started a change how we regarded movies and how we anticipated them and what we knew about them. But even as late as the 90s, Blair Witch Project came out, I went to that movie. I don't know if it was real or not. And that Friday night. That came out. It would have no chance. But when he came out, all we knew was there was a trailer and Danero and Puccino were in it. And they were in the same movie and they were in the same scenes. And Danero was the bad guy and Puccino was the cop. And everyone was in. Yeah. Like just all the way in. You have to remember where these guys were. I mean, we look at them sometimes now with a little bit of like smiling derision or just like sympathy. But these, these, this was them at the top of their craft still. I mean, Danero was coming off of good fellas and Puccino would have this big sort of renaissance in the 90s with a sense of a woman and he. So these guys are still big draws and consider the top of their craft. And they had been in Godfather 2 together, but we're not in any scenes together in Godfather 2. And ironically, Godfather 2 was like 20 years before this movie. Now it's 20 years since he, but they were never in the same scene. They actually, Danero played Michael Corleone's dad with the young version of him. Danero that he, when did he get, did he win best supporting actor for Godfather 2? Yeah. Yeah. Right. And that was part of the appeal was this is awesome. These guys are in the same movie. Danero was coming off a really nice stretch where I think good fellas was 1990. I want to say, but then he had also had that like Bronx tale and he was pumping out movies and he was kind of in his post prime prime. Kate Fears around there. Kate Fears. Yeah, he was on a good run. And Puccino had basically disappeared for most of the 80s. He came back with seal of, sent of a woman, I think was 93. He wins the Oscar finally. And unfortunately, he turned into the son of the woman guy, which can, carries over to heat, but I enjoyed it. Yeah. You're right. So he had done revolution in 85 and then he disappears for four years. He was doing stage. I think he was having some personal issues. Yeah. He goes, see you love Dick Tracy, Godfather 3. Frankie and Johnny, Glen Gary. He's incredible. And then Carlitos way, heat. Yeah. Nice run. So before sign of a woman, there was a little like, oh, Puccino. Yeah. What's going on? Like to know, and to near versus Puccino, I did this in the uneaspin.com in 2001. One of my first big male brag, I used to come to Dr. Jack breakdowns was to near versus Puccino. This was like the bird versus magic for actors. It sounds weird to say this now because I don't think anyone argues about actors this way. Well, how few is the track that they follow is very similar in New York. The command of the 70s. Working in like greedy crime films in the 70s with these huge O'Tour's. Lot of New York movies. Yeah. And they were the place where the critical acclaim for the actor was actually met by some box office appeal. Like they were just, they weren't like, oh, actors love these guys or like only critics and fanboys love these guys. These were like huge movie stars. And both Italian. Yeah. The Godfather thing obviously tied them together. And combined, they probably made nine or 10 movies set in New York. Yeah. And a little bit mythical off the off the screen. Yeah, method actors. Guided really weird put themselves into their roles. Yeah. Yeah. Nobody could totally get a handle on them. And it really looked like De Niro had won the rivalry and then the set of a woman, which was a big commercial movie. But also big for Puccino. It was kind of like he laid this man. Yeah. That was the Rayman move. Like he did. He was his Oscar being it worked. He's great in that movie. It's a ridiculous movie. I don't totally understand set of a woman. Like when it's on cable, it's like, wow, how did this movie get made? It basically comes down to this huge showdown of, of somebody might have not told the truth about some statue that had been defaced. And it's like a whole court. It's ridiculous. Yeah. But he's great in it. He's amazing. You know, it's also worth thinking about 95 in movies. Great. And thinking about how, especially for like crime movies like this, you're coming out of a time period where like this is right when Quentin starts to hit. So it's the reservoir dog is I think 92 and pop. 94. And there are all these movies that are ripping reservoir and pulp off, especially in like the tone. So the tone is really winking. It's very self-aware. It's very like referential to pop culture and stuff like that. So you know, reservoirs and, you know, usual suspects that come out that August. And that was incredible. But that was almost, you know, a referendum on crime movies because it's, you know, the guy who you don't expect to be that the villain is the villain, right? So he comes and I remember it was that December. I think I was on Christmas break from college my freshman year and there was this huge Blizzard and Philly. But I remember going all the way to the theater in this Blizzard and being like one of 10 people in the theater because it was almost shut down and immediately just felt like a completely different experience than those other kind of more, those more like ironic, not even ironic, but those more like postmodern films. This was like so confident and rooted in a place and I had never been to Los Angeles. And that's the thing about heat is an incredible Los Angeles. Very good. And collateral is almost like the LA sequel of it. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. It's just, it was, it felt different. It was so long. You know what I mean? I don't think that there were a lot of like three hour crime movies at that time. Yeah, I don't know what I would, there's definitely 25 minutes to cut out of this movie. Yeah, there's entire plot lines. I've got gotten rid of it. I've gotten rid of it, but that I think has a little bit to do with the fact that so I didn't know this until recently, but this was and he was originally a pilot that I never knew that and it's on YouTube. LA take down and it was apparently if Brandon Tartikoff and Michael man had agreed on the actor, the lead actor, they would just never heard of again. There's some dude Adam Plank or something like that. Scott Plank, I think. Scott Plank. And if they had just agreed on this, they'd heat never what happened. It just would have been a TV show like Miami Vice. The other thing with the Michael man was also in his prime. Oh, yeah. So he's coming off of man hunter and last the movie. Yeah, and I idolize that guy. In the Miami Vice. Yeah. Well, he'd first done the Jericho mile, which is the greatest TV movie of all time in my opinion. And for me, a top 12 sports movie. And I don't even think it exists anywhere, but it's if you have a chance, watch the Jericho mile. It's somewhere. Then goes and does vice. It's unclear how much, how involved he was in vice, but I think for the aesthetic. I think I did. I don't think I did. I don't think I did. I don't think I did. Yeah. He did the pilot. He had other pinnacle cards on Johnson. Yeah. He did all that stuff. Crime story. Last the Mohicans, which has that age great, but in the moment was really cool and kind of sublime. It's early 90s. Romantic, but it's, you know, it's funny. It's like it's not unlike the revenue, which we got a chance to check out. Yeah. You know, 20 years ago, more than 20 years ago, he's doing a lot of the stuff that inner retweet ones up doing in the Revenant with these sweeping shots of these like hand-to-hand combat battles on the frontier. It's pretty incredible. It's actually Jeremiah Johnson, last the Mohicans in the Revenant. Yeah. And they all kind of speak to whatever the era was. Yeah. The last Mohicans was basically that kind of post MTV video, lots of driving music and lots of scenes with no dialogue. Yeah. Up until he is like directing is very painterly. It's very, it's not still necessarily, but it's just, it looks like a moving like landscape painting. And then when he goes to heat, it starts getting a little bit more handheld and a little bit more gritty and like it looks a little bit more, it's not quite digital, but it feels like very like modern. Yeah. I used to go. So like, I'm living in Boston for the whole 1990s, basically. And that winter of '95 was one of my worst winters. I think I've ever had in my life, like, I'm between girlfriends and start dating the wrong girlfriend. I'm at the hair all them getting buried. I'm doing covering all these high school sports. It's this monster blizzard year. I think we had like 10 blizzards a year. That's what cars just keeps getting towed over and over again. It was just miserable. The Celtics are awful. All the teams are awful. I think the Patriots, it was, I don't, I don't, the Patriots might have come on that year. That might have been the one silver lining. But just, I love going to the movies. It was like, there was one thing I had. I'm going to go to the Summerville theater. I'm going to see a movie and I can't, so the heat's on the radar. It's like, oh my god. This is the highlight of my mother's. The Christmas coming out. Yeah, it was like, December 15th. Yeah. It's like, this is great. I can't wait to see this. And it was even better than thought I was going to be. Oh, you stumbled out of the theater. Because I think that there's a couple of scenes in there that were unlike anything we had seen before. So that opening heist with the trucks. And it's like the way that they build up to that where you start and the credits are rolling and you're like, why is this guy a people are moving? Stealing an am. Yeah. So why is this guy buying a detonation equipment from like a Home Depot in Arizona and you know, you meet Wayne grow at the food stand. And he's officially Wayne grow, right? I don't think he has a real name. No, let's just, I don't think if you think he's just Wayne. Yeah. I hope he has a good voice. Yeah. And you get slowly starts and size more is like, don't, you know, stop talking. And you know, and that first, uh, that first heist with the trucks and with the, uh, with with the, with the cops coming in like the chain across the road, flattened their tires. And it takes your breath away. And that's like a 25 minute sequence. And they did it for real. Wasn't CGI. Yeah. It was like they knocked down the truck. I remember this sound. And you could see when the DVDs came out a couple years later, like the way they did the sound in the theater. Yeah. You almost had a heart attack. That's the same thing with the machine guns in the bank robbery scene. Yes. It's just like it's cacophonous. Like it's yeah. And you can, it almost feels like how that would sound on those big avenues down in Figueroa and Flower and Fifth Street where it's just like you could imagine the echo going off like that. Well, that was, so DVDs kind of came to prominence in the mid 90s. Yeah. And I remember I'd started a bartending in 96 and like one of the first things I bought was the nice TV and a DVD player. And heat was in that for I can't remember when it came out. That was one of the first DVDs that just that it was an experience. Yeah. And now it'd be primitive. Everyone's got awesome setups now. But that bank robbery scene. You know, also in your living room, he had decent TV, the pictures clear. It was the first time I ever felt like I was at the movies at my own house. And of course, I was stoned out of my mind. So it was like freaking out. Eating sour patch kids and just watching. Well, because it's also an action scene that's on the level of anything like die hard or lethal weapon. But it has none of the fakeness to it where there's like guys saying funny lines to each other or you see coming from a mile away or it's like, well, he's got to fight this guy because this is the second command of the bad guys and the second good guy has to fight him. It's none of that stuff. But it's just as cool or you know, it's just as exciting as predator or lethal weapon or die hard. Well, I'll go further. What 15 minute action scene is better. All right. That's a 15 minute scene. I don't even be 20 minutes. Yeah. But like if I'm flipping channels and that's about to come on, I'm done. Yeah. We're within a half an hour of that scene. Yeah. It's like, all right. I'm going to stick around. That's the other thing about he is that it came out at a time. And we've talked about this all the time, but the way that these movies would insinuate themselves into your life through cable. Yeah. And he does a movie that has all these huge these distinct parts that you're like, I'm just going to I'm going to watch until this happens. I'm going to watch until Jeremy Piven shows up where I'm going to watch until Henry Rollins gets thrown through the door. And you can, you know, watch it in these 35 minute chunks that almost felt like a long television movie or something like that that you could watch over a couple of nights. It had like a second and a third life because DVD helped. But then as you said, like the cable channels really took off in the mid 90s and you have an old package and yeah, it's been only once a week for like 20 years. Yeah. And you jump in whenever you want. And there were a couple of movies like that. Like the fugitive was like that. Yeah. I think the fugitive at a second life, it was so easy to jump in and out of that one. But the heat, you know, it's long. Mm-hmm. Doesn't help from TV purposes. It has not translated a TNT or any of those. It really has to be movie cable because on TNT, it's four hours or they'd have to chop 40 minutes out of it or whatever. But what struck me when I watched last night, so many people in their prime or their post prime and not just the near-apachino Michael man, but like it's size more as best movie. It's Val Kilmer. It probably has most interesting. I don't know. I think it's a best movie, but it's still movie star like super attractive Kilmer. But you can see his face is aged a little. He's got a little bit more gruff in his voice. Got like a little bit more character because he was, you know, when you see Top Gun and you see Kilmer and Cruise, I don't know. It's hard to tell. Like those guys were like neck and neck in terms of their, oh, these are the next two big movies. Right. And he kind of brought Kilmer back. Yeah. And then there was like a couple year window after that where, you know, the best analogy was you think you would have thought like a Johnny Depp type of second act for him. And he had the might just never movie the lion movie that he made back to Maraud which is an all the Sunday. The shadow was that the same thing that he was going to make a big that was supposed to be his sort of entree until like a franchise or you're trolling me right now. I know. I love the same. The Saints should have been a franchise. But it wasn't. And it's like the same was great. Yeah. And then you see different things that he probably, I mean, who knows what happens if he's in hunt for October or if he's in any one of these movies. I think he was a super weirdo. Oh, yeah. I mean, even in the 90s, I think he was too. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Chuck Kosterman has a great like PC. Yes. When he was full. Yeah. But I think he was always weird. And I think that heard him like Johnny Depp's weird, but not in a way where people are afraid to hire him. Yeah. And Johnny Depp obviously has found the five people who understand his weirdness and they just happen to be like Tim Burton and Gordon Rinsky and they make multimillion dollar movies. I found you and Sean. So, so you have the near opportunity of Kilmer, the best size more ever. Oh, yeah. You have the birth of John Voight as all the Senate becoming a character actor. Yeah. And it launched like his whole character thing. You have five guys who became the guys that weren't their names. So Westwood is basically last mohikens bad guy. Yes. Buffalo Bill from Johnson lamps Ted Levine great. And he's like so he's so cool. He's like, we're shimmy fat person. You don't know what pain is lady. Uh, you have a you have a bump. Michael T. Wayne is in. Yeah. You have Wayne grow who's just Wayne grow. I don't know if he knows. He's now signing autographs as Wayne grow. Now I'm going to go super, super, super, IMDB dark on your hair. Silent rage guy. Who's that Brian Libby from Silent rage. He's in Shawshank. He plays one of the one of the buddies in Shawshank. He's the bad guy in Silent rage. He's one of those guys. He's a great that guy. Who's he in heat? He's one of the cops. Oh, wow. He's in the Puccino team. So there's a couple other guys. There's William Fitchner who's an Armageddon and a bunch of 90s stuff. There's Blaze Van Sant the money like the money-wondering guy. Tom Noonan Tom Noonan who's an internet legend. Yeah. And he's the one who's invents the internet. You know, he's like, his stuff is just out there. You don't come. It's just out there. All you know is Graven. I can grab it. 13.9 million. It's true. That maybe it's sage of oak in the dead invented the internet. Yeah. Hank is area. Yep. Dennis Hayesbury who went on to become the president in 24 Jeremy Piven. Jeremy is just a one off scene. I couldn't tell his that consider a cameo or was that really all Jeremy Piven could do at the time. That that was it. Yeah. He's like what PCU right. Yeah. He doesn't want us to remember. He's in that movie. He's in that. He's in that. He's already. He's already here. Yeah. Dr. Heald I sell he doesn't have he has not yet gotten the are here. Two incredible cameos Henry Rollins wasn't even a cameo. He was in life. Five scenes. He's like, I keep heart. Yeah. Nobody remembers who Henry Rollins is now unless you're like in our age range. Yeah. Henry Rollins had a run there with MTV, the Liar Song, in a bunch of home. He was in that movie with Christie Swanson and Charlie Sheen. Yeah. Chase. Right. And then Tonelok. Oh, yeah. Which is that that cameo is not age well from a who the hell is that guy perspective right in the moment. I was like, Hey, that's Tonelok. I love all those scenes. The one at the chop shop and then he goes and sees Tonelok at the at BJ's on Alvarado to him. Yeah. And then four women Ashley Judd peak Ashley Judd absolutely never look better in a movie. I've never liked to remember. I'm not a movie. Diana Vanora never totally made it. But it's a bunch of different stuff. But he's actually I love their relationship. It's really great. Yeah. It shouldn't work in every scene. You should, but it's actually good. And it's messed up. Natalie Portman's movie ever right right after the professional right right before it. And you could. If you talked about cutting down the movie, maybe take out every Natalie Portman. Right. So we mentioned LA. And I think that you feel it feels like sometimes like the Dennis Hayesburg plot line and the Natalie Portman plot line. Feel like television plot lines like if you're on episode nine of the season of heat. You're like, okay, yeah, let's spend let's find out why like the Natalie Portman character is depressed or how it's going for this guy being a short order cook at a diner. Right. But in the movie heat, it feels a little bit extraneous. Although I think that one of the things that this film does really well is show how all of these people's lives just kind of intersect it with this this like perfect moment for all this stuff to happen. Right. Yeah. And we the end the last female Amy Brennan. Yeah, judge an Amy. Incredible Amy Brennan run there in the behind us. And my PD Blue. She's great. Yeah. I've said. Meadily had a crush on her. I was like, I'd love to meet her and marry her if possible. Then she was in. in this. - Yeah. - She left NYPD bluda to make movies. - And I think that she just wound up doing judging Amy for a few years. - Oh, you left out a key one. - What you want? - Daylight was sliced alone. - Oh right. (laughing) - Hadarium. - And now she's had to come back with the leftovers. - I always liked her. - Yeah. - Let's talk a little bit about her relationship with Neil McCauley, because I always find their meet cute to be really weird. Where it's like they meet in that bookstore, you know, and she walks by them and then they see each other again at the diner and she's just like, "What's your book about?" He's like, "Mettles." (laughing) - It's just like, it's not exactly like the stuff that Tinder dreams are made of, but they really want to pin it off. Should we just go to the lessons? 'Cause that was one of my lessons. - Yes, sure, let's do some of it. - We can do tangents off the lessons. This is one of the lessons from heat. Never fall for a guy who starts courting you by saying, "Lady, why are you so interested "in what I read and what I do?" - That's it. Walk away. - That's not making yourself emotionally available. - Yeah. - She's not meant to last. (laughing) - And that's how their courting starts. - Why does she like De Niro? And it's, I mean, talk about having-- - I think she's lonely. She's like, from Kentucky, and she's just like, working as a graphic designer. I can't believe I know all this about like, eating the character. - But she's working as a graphic designer in Santa Monica and she says that the city is kind of lonely and that's when Neil's like, "I am alone. "I am not lonely." Do you remember that? And they just kind of hit it off. I don't know. He goes up and shows her the algae, the way that the sea looks like algae at night or whatever who talks about going to Tahiti and he has that whole speech. And they just, they're two crazy kids in love. - Well, that was a minor lesson for me. This is one of the major lessons. - Yeah, there's five major lessons in heat and this is lesson number one and something I hope my daughter remembers someday. Never fall for a guy with no furniture. - That's really good point. - It's great. - Yeah. - He's like, "I'll get around to it. "You're gonna get around a furniture? "That makes me nervous. "Why don't you have furniture? "You're gonna have a TV?" - So you think not having furniture is a bigger deal than falling in love with a guy with a reckless and debilitating gambling habit. Like the Valquille Recharacter has. - At least that's something. No furniture is like nothing. The guy's gonna be going tomorrow. - Because when I was actually doing shoes, it's just like he comes home. He's just robbed this bank truck and he's just like, "Oh, sorry, baby. "I had to pay off some debts." You know, I had to get in there. I'd lost, I took a wash in the Super Bowl and she's just, it's so mad. - Well, that's, you brought up the Netflix and it struck me last night. This would have been the greatest 10 episode Netflix series last time. - Oh, that's right. - Because we never seen the Valquille Recharacter a family problem. We don't have the scene where he drives to Foxwoods and loses $58,000 in three hours. - That's because he drives out to Arizona to get the detonating, the detonation stuff for the truck and out on his way back. You know he stops it wrong. - No question. (laughing) - I wanna see Valquille Recharacter. I wanna see him on seven street, get killed by the last days coming around the corner. - I'll get the money tomorrow, you better. - I want all those scenes, we didn't get any of those. It was just like, yeah, he has a gammy problem. - Does Valquille, is he the toughest guy ever to have that haircut? - Yeah. - In that movie, the blonde, - Well, he's only on the front. - On the area you could have gotten with the haircut and been a bad guy. - Yeah, like it's a holdover from the late 80s. Nobody's told him that he doesn't have to tuck a gap to your shirt into baggy jeans with a blunt. 'Cause if you see that guy now, you're just like, I bet that guy does not rob banks. - Well, now he would have a bunch of tattoos, right? - Yeah. - He'd have some crazy haircut with like whatever and he'd have piercings and a bunch of tattoos. He'd be like, oh, I get it, this guy robs banks. But you watch that movie there and it's like, is this guy like in the fabulous Baker Boys with Jeff Bridges? - Yeah. - Let's see, what's going on? - Yeah, from a Netflix standpoint, the stories that would have helped the most, the cook, - Natalie Hasebert, totally in that. Natalie Portman would have been great. - Yeah. - I don't know if she belongs in this movie. - What's Natalie Portman like at school? What school do you think like, what does she go and do? Is she going to Santa Monica High? - No, she's going to Harvard. - No, she's going to a private school, but she's bounced around. - Yeah. - She was at the center for a year. She got kicked out. (laughing) - A couple of bunch of those. - She's smoking weed behind the bleachers. - Yeah, yeah, no question. - Tell everybody they're stepped out to cop and then she's, it's okay. - Yeah. - No question. - Yeah, so you have that. You have, I would have liked to know more about Van Zand. - Yeah. - And his whole business, and John Void. - All we hear is like, came in islands offshore. He's like, get me the spreadsheets for the came in islands offshore. - Not you. (laughing) - Came in islands was a big, - Huge. - 85 to 95. - Huge time for the came in. - Yeah, a lot of movies were came in islands-y. So if they said the heat is going to be on Netflix, they're remaking it. - Okay. - It's gonna be 12 episodes. They're blowing out the movie. Michael Mans involved. He's doing it. - Okay. - So we're starting with same premise, cop and bank robber who are basically the same except for one central difference. - I mean, it doesn't have to be Netflix either. It could be Amazon Prime, Hulu. I don't know if HBO now has made a commitment to doing like a 12 episode giant. They'd probably just have it on HBO. But let's say one of these places does this. Would you be excited or would you not be excited? - If it was a straight remade, I think that there is parts of heat that I think would be very interesting to see in the modern world. - 2016 heat. - Right. So here's the thing though. I think that all of these kinds of movies that involve surveillance or investigations are ultimately much more interesting without the internet and without like, oh, we can just read his emails. And finally, like the departed is the right at the edge where like they're tracking guys based on their like Motorola or their Ericsson brick phones member in the party. Like it's all the stuff in the pocket with the phone and they're triangulating it. Heat doesn't have any of that. It's great that they actually have to follow these guys around and watch them with night vision cameras. So I'd really like that rather than we're just sitting in a truck and we're like reading all these guys text messages and emails and everything like that. There's a little bit, it's like almost feels like cheating. So I wouldn't want that that's part of the problem. - Maybe I'd be part of the charm. You remake it in the internet world where you have to make it so that we're not old school. Oh man, it was better when there's no- - But I still don't know if, like I enjoyed, you know, like for instance, this season of Homeland is fine, but it's pretty boring to just watch a bunch of people do stuff on computers. No matter how. - That's why I'm out. - Yeah. So I just, I would rather heat stick to the streets and get off the net. - Now the homeland broke my streak of, I fell asleep during the first four episodes. (laughing) It would have been a domagio like 56 fall asleep run if, if all right, so I have some more lessons. When you're robbing an armored truck, don't call anyone slick. - Yeah. - Good to know. - Yeah. - If he just doesn't say slick, nobody ever catches these guys. Tom Sizemore. - The one sort of unbelievable thing is the way that they, that slick, they hunt around on slick. - On the whole list entirely. - This entire criminal conspiracy. He's like, you run slick through the bad database. You're gonna get the phone book back to it anyway. And then of course, they say slick at BJs. You know, and it just, it totally gets Sizemore's character. Yeah. - Yeah, it's a little, you always have reaches in these kind of movies. - Yeah. - Never leave a living witness. - Yeah. - Apparently that's the way to go. - You're gonna take out most of the witnesses. Just keep going. Just get rid of all the witnesses. Don't take out 80% of the witnesses. Why leave, why leave one or two? - Do you wanna talk now 'cause we're talking about that, that witness's thing is what gets winged grow and trouble, right? So he kills a guy and then he's the mirror fills the guy. - He's making a move, man. - He's like, I had to get it on. - I had to get it, man. - I'm speaking to move. - You have a lot of problems with wing grows escape in the parking lot of the diner. So they're about to kill wing grow and cop car kind of drives by slowly and wing grow somehow spider man's out of there. - I don't like the whole diner scene because first of all, when Daenerys repeatedly slamming his face and it's a table, I find the other customers would have been more upset about it. - They stare at the wall and go over but not, it's like, yeah. - Yeah. - And then they all leave together. It just seems like somebody's calling that into the cops. - So let's say you and I are at a diner and we see that happen. We see one guy slam another guy's head into the table four times. - Right after a huge armored truck robbery that had four dead cops, which was perpetrated by four guys. - Is your move just stirs straight ahead and we crystal start talking about the Celtics? - Is this. - We're getting up and leaving right now. - You just, you don't move. - You just stay there. - You don't move. - Okay. So they go out and Neo, I think is a really smart, thoughtful criminal. - Definitely good at what he does. - He's thoughtful. - Really good. He always makes the right move. It starts beating him up. They have the trunk ready. - They're lined up. - Yeah, lining up. - Which is great. - You see that trunk at the line here in trouble? People have put a lot of thought into your murder. - Hit some a couple times. Cop comes around and Neo, Daenerys, just kind of loses track of all the ground. - He's like a safety. Like he loses Odell Beckham on the 84 yard pass. - Yeah, it's not even like. - Just keep your foot on him. - It's like if three defensive backs look the other way, you're supposed to be looking at Odell. - Just put your foot on him. He's right underneath you. What are you doing? - It's a much shorter movie than. - Yeah. I guess, to me that, and then in the bank scene, the amount of Pachinos coming down the street for 10 minutes, all they're doing is walking from the bank to the car. - Valcomers walk from the bank to the car. It's like a mile long, even though it's 50 feet away. - Yeah. - And he's just walking and then Pachinos gaining another block or another, but he's getting out of the car with his gun and Valcomers are still making the 10 steps. - Yeah. - Little timing issue for me on that one. - But that's part of the thing that's really interesting. They actually almost do that scene in real time. I mean, so what's another lesson you have there? - After you steal bear bonds from a criminal, don't try to sell them back to him. Can I add a little bit of a footnote on to that? - Please do. - Don't do the resell in an abandoned parking lot or abandoned drive in parking lot on Centonella. You're right. Yeah. Maybe just a little bit more public. - Well, like MacArthur Park, I don't know. Maybe that's a little dangerous, but you just, if you're all you're doing is a simple exchange. Maybe don't do it in the most remote place possible. - Yeah, I didn't like that. that one. There's no better threat than I'm talking to an empty telephone. Oh my God. If I call you and never say that, just run because he was a dead man on the other line. Great. The nearer. Yeah. The near is never I think this and good fellow is where his two best. I'm just pissed off and I want to wrench somebody's neck faces. Yeah. He's just head over and over again. When you're criminal friends, your buddies, your compatriots, when you're planning something with them and they tell you, one guy says the bank is worth the risk. And the other says, for me, the action is the juice. Wait. So you got to give this a little bit, finish the lesson. Those aren't good reasons to rob a bank. I need more. The bank is worth the risk. It's like, well, why is it worth the risk? Yeah. One and then he's got to pay off his gamblers and get starling back. Yeah. So I want more info from him, Val Comer. And then Tom sizemore is like, for me, the action is the juice. It's like, so you're a complete psychopath. Well, okay. But here's the thing is that the funniest part about that scene is that Niels like, look, you've got T-bonds, you've got real estate. She takes good care of you. You're all set up. Why does De Niro know so much about his financial portfolio? He's just like, I didn't know you worked at Northwestern Mutual. And then the best part is that this is like peak. If you want to pinpoint the greatest moment in Tom's size, more acting career, it's right here where he takes like a solid 10 seconds of beat. And then he blinks 50 times and he goes, for me, action is the juice. Yeah. And he's he's dancing in the ring with De Niro. Yeah. You can tell he's feeling he's like, I'm showing this. I'm showing this scene to my grandkids. When I die, this is going to my Obit reel. This is it. The action is the juice going right at De Niro. He told it. He told his girlfriend the day before. De Niro and I are going head to head. Yeah. The that's another slide stretch here. Yeah. I I think Neil is too smart to rob the bank when he knows there's that much heat. Right. Right. I just think he's like, you know what guys? What's way to year? We'll get the heat off us then then we'll make another move. Well, this guy he's got to get out of town with EDI. Right. They have to they have to go on vacation. Is that enough money? That's going to New Zealand. Right. Money. Do you need to go to the New Zealand? Part of it is that he has a lot of money tied up in some other job, right? That they they tried to do and they didn't work out. So he had paid all up front for that. And then I think that you know, he's not spending money on furniture and apparently he's not in T bonds in a real state. Yeah. Oh, this is a good one. This almost could have been a major lesson, but I had as a minor lesson. Don't stay in the car patiently waiting for your psychotic criminal boyfriend. If he mysteriously entered a massive hotel without giving you a heads up in 10 minutes later, everyone is pouring out of the hotel and dozens of police cars and fire engines have arrived. I'm going to say just drive away when you're on your way to the airport. Have you ever really airport? I think in two times of my life, if I ever been like, I need to stop on my way to the airport. And both times have been from Nicaragua patches. But both times were pretty sketchy when I did it. Like I think that my Uber driver and my wife were both just like, this is insane. We're on our way to the airport. They would do it. Yeah. Juliet, our friend Juliet loves these movies where the woman have terrible choices and men basically. Yeah. And that the whole movie is centered around. She shouldn't have picked this guy. She should be with this guy and said that's like the wrong combination. He's like, you can leave now or on your own. You take, do you take this? You know, nobody's ever had a worse choice than a man that Amy Brennan met in this movie. I don't care if you've just moved to LA and you don't know anyway. Because at least the Diane Vanora Alpachina, like they just so fully know where they are in their lives together. And it's like, you know, Amy Brennan is really in for a surprise. She's watching the news and it's like, yeah, the biggest bank robbery disaster of all time. 20 people are dead. Neil comes drawing home. She's like, did you do this? He's like, ah, to book about medals. That's why I needed it. Yeah, she should have run. All right. Here's the major lessons that I have. Never fall for God. No furniture. We covered that. Don't let word get out on the street that it's okay to steal your stuff. No, never, never. I gotta say, I feel that way myself. Well, here's the thing. What are you going to do about it? I might do something. Are you going to send me and Sean to a drive in on set? No, I'm going to do something package of t-shirts. Nobody is stealing stuff from Bill Simmons. Never fall for God. No furniture. You know the risk. You don't have to be there. If it, if it rains, you get wet. Yeah. I actually think that could, that's a great high school senior year book quote. Yeah. I already graduated by the time he came out. So I think it's a good fortune cookie. Yeah. If it rains, you get wet. It's a fact. No, the risk. If you can do something, do it. You might rain. You might get wet. If you have a regular life that revolves around barbecuing ball games, your life sucks. Yes. That's awesome. Can we talk a little bit about like incredible domestic life of Vincent Hannah here? Because my favorite parts of this movie are one of my favorite parts of this movie when he comes home after various long days at the office and by long days at the office, I mean like investigating murders and major robbery homicides. And he comes home and he's just like, I'm sorry if the chicken got over cooked. It's such a great line. And she's just like, I'm okay, whatever. And then the best is when he comes home and Ralph is there. Yeah, Ralph. And he goes, I'm very angry Ralph. You can lounge around here on her sofa and her ex-husband's dead tech postmodernistic bullshit house if you want to, but you do not get to watch my fucking television. It's amazing. And it's a shame. And he hates the TV. Yeah. Shut up, Ralph. Sit down. She's like, this is what I have to do to get closure. I have to demean myself with Ralph. I'm wasting a pro's act and I'm stoned on grass and pro's act. Yeah. Oh, man. Yeah, that is a messed up relationship. Fave me, Brad Pitt and Danero actually, I feel better about that relationship. Yeah, it's healthier, but less baggage. So, uh, and the last one obviously, the famous one and a great lesson for anything in life, have no attachments, have nothing in your life that you can't walk away from in 30 seconds. If you spot the heat around the corner, um, what I love about this, first of all, great advice for a criminal to another criminal. They work the title of the movie. It's great. It's not like spotlight. The heat. Yeah. You're right. Spotlight. Spotlight. Cause this is a Corolla bit, but when movies shoehorned in and Corolla sometimes thinks they came up with the title before the plot, but like face offs, a good example. They have a whole scene where it's supposed to like face off face off. He just keeps repeating this title. This one very subtle, but the movie is called heat. And it's about the heat around the corner. And it's about the decisions you make and whether how much do you care about somebody when you're a criminal? Yeah. Is it who should be loyal to it? Like, if you remember, the heat's around the corner with him and Valcoma and Valcoma get shot. Technically, he should have literally left and left, but he loves Valcoma. This is another example why this can't really be remade is because that concept of leaving everything you have in 30 seconds and vanishing, I think only the best greatest criminals could probably pull away of that. You'd have to be planning to do that for quite some time because like, even if I had interest in doing that, even if I was like, I'm going to walk out of this place and I'm going to be gone in 30 seconds. I'm not going to do that. But I'm just saying I wouldn't be able to do it. There's too much of a digital footprint. People would just be able to like go into my email and be like, oh, he bought a plane ticket to Phoenix. Yeah. You know, like that you wouldn't be able to I think that back then you paid for paid for things and checks and cash more. It was a little harder to track your money. I don't know, it just seems like it would be impossible to even pull off the basic premise of this movie now. You feel very safe and content about the fact that this movie is confined to a specific era. And now can't translate to a different era. It's timeless though. It doesn't feel it doesn't feel dated, but I don't think that you could do it with a lot of the stuff that's happening now. Everything leads to at the end, the heat is around the corner. Yeah. And it's he's got 30 seconds to decide whether to roll with Brandon or not. And unlike when he left Al Comer or when he kept Al Comer and saved them, he leaves Brandon mid behind. Right. Now do you think he's leaving Brandon mid behind because he has to, you know, he's getting chased, but do you think it's because he wants to keep her safe? I think he's just like, this lady's a loser. If she's still here with her, yes, yes, the hotel like I gotta get rid of her. I don't want to raise kids with her. Man's but like view of the end of this movie is very telling because he was like, this guy winds up dying with the person who only person in the world who truly understands him. Are you okay with the hand touching? Yeah. I think it's amazing. I think it's an incredible moment. I think it's incredible. That happens at LAX where all these planes are taking off and landing and it's like departures and arrivals and I think the music is amazing at the end with I think it's great. The movies, the movie track and it's very, I find it very moving. That's another, that's another thing that could never happen now is nobody's just stumbling into an area where airplanes are taking off and landing. We're just like, we're just gonna go running across runways. This Pacino catch De Niro. Let's let's talk about that. No, I think that was really unlikely. There's Pacino's working on two packs a day. There's no, you know, he's been out for two days. It's impossible. And De Niro had a really good head start. The reason why this should show in the movie theater every once in a while because so a couple of these scenes were amazing and those scenes that doesn't hold up on your normal TV versus in the theater is that airplanes and the planes and the lights from the planes. It's so loud. The noise. It's just such an incredible way. It's smiling over the water or something. I can't remember the name of the movie song but it's really, really beautiful. It's a great ending. I don't have really lessons as much as I have questions. Okay. Enduring questions from he. I want to know where the guy is that did the patino stunt work when he comes running through the door and tackles Henry Rollins. - Oh yeah. - Because there's a shot of him and it looks like Jojara Vicious. - Yeah. - It's like all of a sudden, Patino is 22 years younger and is running slant patterns for somebody to show the championship. And he's just like, come over, he jumps over an ottoman and just tackles Henry Rollins. And then it's one of the great all time cutaway. It's this is a stunt guy with a wig and then it cuts away and Patino is like, I got you, son of a bitch like holding him. - Right. - The other one, and this is one of the-- - It's a good one. - Weirdest parts about the movie is, has anyone in the history of American pickup basketball ever interrupted a pickup basketball game to ask where he can get a loaf of bread? Which is what Val Kilmer does at the end when he goes to Charlene's apartment and she's just like gives him the hand gesture that says the cops are here. You remember that? - Big, big flaw in the movie. - And he goes up to that pickup game. Those guys are playing in the dark, first of all. And he goes, hey guys, hey guys, they all stop. Like it's not like where they're like, we're playing basketball, you can like hang out for a second. And they come over to the gate, he's like, where can I get some bread around here? And they act like it's a totally normal question. - Oh, good question. - Who, when is the last time anyone's ever asked you, where can I get some bread? - You're gluten free? - What are you looking for? - Sour down. - Yeah. (laughing) - That seems very flawed because there's a massive man hunt for these people that destroyed downtown and murdered all these cops. They know he's coming to see Ashley Jen. They know what he looks like. - Yeah, he got a haircut. It's not like a haircut. - He's like, we construct a surgery. It's not that bad. - He gets a haircut. - He's also limping because he's had his clavicle shattered by a bullet. - Yeah. - He's limping, he's looks in pain, gets out of his car and they're like, yeah, let him go, he checked out. - Yeah. - He checked out. - He checked out his bell, Cooper. - I'm gonna do, oh yeah more. - No, no, that's pretty much it. Those are my two main questions. Do you have some more lessons? - No, what I do have is some Puccino Lans I wanna do. - Okay. (laughs) - Give me all you got. Give me all you got. By the time I get Telfinix, this can't be karaoke. That scene is my favorite scene in the movie actually. - Incredible. - The chop shop scene when he's just like, did you fall in love last night? I'll settle for that. Tell you fall in love last night. I'm okay with that. - Thank you, still incentive a woman mode for the first hour of the movie. Eventually, you can tell that's all improv too because the two other guys in the scene with him are just like, what the hell is going on? - Puccino's on set that day. Don't waste my motherfucking time. (laughs) - Enjoyed that? You can get killed. Walkin' in your doggy. Is that what that was a good one? - Who's he talkin' to with that scene? I can't remember. Is that my cousin's area? - It's one of the two black guys. - Oh yeah, right. - Yeah, when he's, when, - Right. - Who was the other black guy? Thomas Tone-Loke, the other was somebody that had him really reckoned that. - I was like, I think it was Ricky, I think he was a comedian back then. I think he was like on Def Comedy, Jan. - Shut up, Ralph. Sit down. What we got? What we got? - Ricky Harris. - Ricky Harris. - Right. - The end when he thinks De Niro's gun. What we got? - Bombayage, motherfucker. - You were good. - There was like, there's a couple of scenes where like, it feels like they didn't quite get the chronology right because there's a bunch of scenes in a row where Alpacan was like, eight hours, eight hours in the gun to get a new exit plan. They like these things. - Yeah. - Keep talking about their exit strategy and they're out and he's just like, he keeps being obsessed with this and it's like, if you stopped worrying so much about whether or not they were able to get planes tickets and just pursue them, I think you would have caught up with them after him. - Yeah. All I am is all I'm going after. - Yeah, I was a good line. - Yeah. - Really good line. - I am what I am and I do what I do. - Right. - And then the best one, only because of the pauses which were vaguely reminiscent of Pat Summaral doing murder, she wrote. (laughing) 'Cause she's got a great ass. (laughing) And you got your head all the way up it. - I don't understand. - That scene's incredible. - That is pretty amazing. - Is there a best, - No idea what is going on in that scene. - It's the best 10 seconds of Pachino's career. (laughing) - I want to know if that was in the script or if Pachino ad lipped it. - Even if it is, the delivery is so on Pluto that like you know that nobody in that scene knew it was coming. Do you think, is Azaria just overmatched by the amount of acting town in the room or was he playing a guy who was overwhelmed? - I think he was playing a guy who was overwhelmed for sure. - I thought the key was overmatched in the Pachino scene. - He was also like, - Oh my god, this guy's in the main area. - What is he playing again like a suit salesman from Vegas or something like that? - He's having sex with Ashley Chad. - Yeah. Oh, we have a couple more things here. - There's a flip side to that coin. - There's a seven second pause. What if I got to take you down? - Incredible. Just incredible. - Has there ever been a better rooting for the bad guys? And I don't know why, but I really want the bad guys to get away movie than this movie. - Yeah, it's all these guys are bad guys. They've murdered cops. They just shot armor trucks here together. - They're all taking hostages. - Yeah, they're taking hostages. They blew up a truck and he's like, see that's Hey Slick. See that stuff coming out of their ears? They can't hear you. It's like, these are horrible guys. - Come on, get away. - Just keep shooting. - You can't. - Come on, now get 'em. - Yeah. - Tom Sizemar grabs a little kid in the park. It's like a shield. I'm like, oh, good move, good move. - That's also a moment where Pacino makes that shot to save the kid and kill Sizemar. - Risky. - It's probably one of the greatest like long-range shots in like American history. And he just like drops the gun and goes off run and towards the supermarket where he'll work. - Kilmer, you know what I mean? - Not even a high five to anybody or anything. - It's 480 yards away. - Yeah. Yeah, I can't remember. There have been other bad guy movies, but this is the one where it's, if you really take a step back. - The bank robbery scene is very crazy 'cause you think that they're just trapped in it. And I, you know, this is another reason why, in '95 there wasn't as much information about movies going into them. So I don't think I even knew how long the movie was. I thought the bank robbery scene was gonna be the last scene in the movie. - Right, so you're just kinda like, I guess this is it. - Yeah. - I guess this is, and then it's like, oh my God. They got away and now it's another hour of them running. - And then Teneer is in the car and he's like, what's fans' address? And where's Wayne Grove? - Yeah, like Danny Treyo. - Like Danny Treyo's house. - Yeah, we're gonna go find Wayne Grove. It's a special bonus. - Wayne Grove needed to be in Honolulu by then though. Like if you've ran it out that crew, you're on the first plane to Thailand. You cannot stay in Los Angeles. - Are you pro or con, him hunting down Wayne Grove? - Oh, absolutely pro. - Are you pro or con? Wayne Grove just randomly murdering a young prostitute. - And what's up with that plot line? That's another tell. - Could've cut that one out. - I think it was really they needed the Pacino hug with the mom. - Yeah, and it shows like the, I mean, I thought that that actually did a good job. You're talking about like sympathizing with the bad guys. Like that actually does a good job of showing like, you know, just how destructive these guys are, you know, and even though you can appreciate, I mean, the thing that's so cool about this movie is, and a lot of Michael Man movies are about this, is they're about the minutio of work, right? So they're about the process and the details that go into the solving or the setting up of crimes. And that's what's the best part about like after the truck robbery, and there's this awesome shot where it's inside of the car, a Pacino rolls up and gets out. And he doesn't even talk all his guys are coming up to him and being like, this guy saw that. There's a fingerprints on this. The detonation device is exotic. And he doesn't even have to ask. He's just pointing and nodding. And you can just, you just immediately feel like you're working with them and you're learning so much, even if it's a movie. But that's the thing that's so incredible about this movie is its attention to detail. Well, I agree with everything you just said. And I thought in that, I think it was the Rolling Stone thing that came out to say. Yeah, it was like Michael Man has told two things. I felt like Michael Man felt this way about the movie, but it was good to him say that. So here's his quote, "If you track the movie from a storytelling point of view, who are you supposed to empathize with at the end of the film? You want Bob to get away and you want out to get Bob. I love when people call it the narrative. I love it. I can't do it. I just call him Robert or D'Anero." So you want Bob to get away. You want out to get Bob. Both are true simultaneously and the two fused. There's a fusion in the end of the two men in this perfect counterpoint. It's not complicated, but as complexity, it's ordered in symmetry. And so the way that these stories are told and how these lives are opposed against each other is maybe why we're still talking about heat. So I think he went in that movie and he's like, I want to create a movie where ultimately, the audience, there's a chasing at the end. And the audience is rooting for both guys equally. Yeah. And I'm going to spend two hours and 35 minutes getting to this point. And I think a huge part about the way the movie makes you feel at the end is the fact that it ends with those guys holding hands instead of Pacino gets D'Anero and then all the cops come and Pacino and Diane Vanora have like a quiet moment where he's just like, I guess he finally felt the heat. Yeah. It's true. It's not Pacino's movie. It's both of their movies. And I think that you're left with thinking about their relationship, how they were similar, the one way they were different, which is one guy is trying to protect people and another guy doesn't care about protecting people. And even though they're the same in terms of their dedication to something and the way that that thing defines who they are, it's really-- it's a lot deeper than that. It makes me quite emotionally when I watch the end of it. Does it make you emotional that I ruined his whole 30 seconds heat around the corner thing? Because he did go back for Val Comer. You know, I was their hypocrite. I never really-- Your hypocrite, Neil. I thought you got away with the heats around the corner. Why are you going back to get Val Comer in a shattered clavicle? Just start running. You have a bag of money. Just go. We didn't talk about the diner scene. Yeah, let's do it. So the interesting thing about this is that when Michael Mann and Art Linson decided [BLANK_AUDIO] they were gonna make this movie and they decided they wanted to offer it to Patino and to Nero. They did it, they had that conversation at the diner that they wanted to shoot shooting. - K-Manolines. - Yeah, it's, it's, it's, - Now the funk. - Right, right. So that was like a very cool little, uh, two. - So K-Manolines, it's on Beverly Hills, it's in Beverly Hills, I'm Wilshire, and they had a big poster of the two of them face to face. - Okay. - But remember there was a whole internet legend in the 2000s that they weren't in the same scene when they filmed it. - Right, that there was like over the shoulder shots or whatever it was. - They never, they couldn't stand each other and all these different reasons for it. And meanwhile, the end of the movie, they're in the same scene for the last 10 minutes. - They're holding hands. - I'm pretty sure they were okay with each other. - Yeah. - The whole narrative. I don't know why he chose to just show the two angles of Denearest face with Puccina's head in the background and then vice versa, but he never did the wide shot of them and I kind of respected it. - Yeah. - He had to have had a reason. It's an incredible scene. The movie's leading up to it. You want it to happen. You don't know if it's gonna happen. In the theater, I'm like, are these guys ever, it's almost like in basketball, you get like, let's say LeBron and Kobe and actually play at each other in the '08 finals. And then finals are like, are these guys gonna guard each other? - Right. - It's like, oh, they're guarding each other. Oh, here we go. - I thought the brilliant part about that scene is that the conversation is weird. Like the conversation like the guys just like, I have these dreams, everybody I've ever worked. Like these days I've worked, they're looking back at me with eight ball hemadras. It's like in, in, in the near was like, oh, I have a dream where I'm drowning or something like that. And he's like, they're analyzing each other's dreams. And then they have that conversation where it's just like, I will not hesitate, you know, blow a blow. But there's something about the, how idiosyncratic the conversation is, that's perfect. If they just sat down and started yelling at each other and doing all these big shot lines, I think it would have been a little bit distracting. - There's information gathering on both ends. - Yeah. - And then man tried to make the point in the Rolling Stone piece that whatever Pacino Gleamed in that conversation. - Yeah. - And then he said, I'm not a man. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah. - And then he said, I think that it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's not because Dinear does a bad job. - So it's like a split decision. Dinear, Pachino wins. - Yeah. - 115 to 114 in the card. But somebody else had it. - Yeah. - 117 to 111, Dinearro. - Yeah. - And they have to have a rematch. - Yeah. - I wish. I thought Dinearro won. - Okay. - But I, I'm not a taster. - And then Pachino ultimately wins the movie at the end of it. Because he, Dinear had no stick at all. Pachino get a little sticky in there. And then at the end, Pachino slightly smiles at the tail end. - Yeah. - And as like Dinearro broke him a little bit. - Like, here we are. Just two guys. - So it's too long. - So it's too long. - I thought it was fascinating that Michael Mann, like that whole thing he said about how, that was basically the scene in the movie is that first take, he wanted the energy of those two go ahead and head. - Yeah. And I think he did, they didn't do a lot of rehearsal. I don't think he did. - No. - I don't think they did. - Yeah. - And he wanted them to just go boom. - Anything else? Did we cover everything? - No, I think it's good. - I'm gonna check my list to make sure. - Got any more lessons to teach me? - Well, the other thing is, these guys were never totally the same after this movie. - Yeah, that's a good one. - So, it's like the 87 finals. - I wanna look at Pachino here. - He does a lot of stuff after this that I feel like is, he starts to do a little of the self parody. And it gets really bad as the career goes on. But after he does City Hall, which is I think like. - No. - But it's. - No. - Okay. - Donnie Brasco, which was supposed to be sort of, and deflating the gangster legend a little bit. - Yeah. - Devil's advocate. - Yeah, pretty sad. - The insider, he's great in the insider. - It's great in the insider. - Any given Sunday, which is his last great moment. - That's great. - No, you can't really criticize any given Sunday. It exists in a different plane of existence. - He's unbelievable in that movie. - Yeah. - He's a really great athlete. - I would say that's one of his four best performances. The whole movie is great. And that's it. Then the wheels came off. So I do think he-- - Yeah, until 2005. - So maybe he did. - To the money. - To the wheels. - The wheels were off in '02 '03. Pachit, Danero, kind of gravitated into that. We meet the parents. I'll do any movie. Just make me and offer our stage, which I think culminated in 15 minutes with Big Grant Lamb fans at Burns. - And he's kind of-- - He's kind of come back a little bit with the David O'Rossel stuff. - Yeah, he hasn't done what an amazing performance by Robert Danero specifically for the show. - God, I'm looking here. - What was from Heat? What were the next ones? - Well, here's the thing. He had a pretty cool run here. - Yeah, he did. - He goes the fan sleepers. - The fan was awful. - Yeah. Sleepers, not bad. - Marvin's room. - Awful. - Copeland. - He's good in Copeland. - Pretty good. - Matt and that are huge, raw. - Great and wag the dog. - Yeah. - Jackie Brown, he's phenomenal in. - Unbelievable. - And then, of course, this is a movie. We could do a complete other podcast about this movie, but Ronan. - Oh, you know, I feel about Ronan. - Also one of the first great DVDs. - One of the all-time great games. - One of the great chase scenes ever. - It has actually, it has a couple great chase scenes. - Ronan is actually the last one. - Ronan is literally the last, like, I think somewhere around, he was making too many movies. And somewhere around that time, it stopped feeling as special when Danero was in a movie. And I'm not sure when. - Yeah. - But now it's pretty much when he does a, David O'Rossel movie, he's pretty good. Otherwise, it's just kind of crap. - Both of those guys had rigged it so that when they released a movie, I remember when C of Love was coming out. I was like, "Pegino's bad." - Oh my God. - Yeah. - This is amazing. - Yeah, because that was when those guys would take like two or three years in between. - Yeah. - And that Danero's making my three years in between. - The only person who does that now is Danel Lewis. - Yeah. - Heat two. - Do you see it? - Still hot? - Heat two. - The heat still around the corner. Danero's not dead. - Danero's past. - Danero was fine. - He passed it. - He passed it. - He passed it. - He saved them. They blood transfused and made it. - Oh, what about heat two Natalie Portman's character is a cop now. - Oh. - Oh, see that? - She's chasing back home. - Michael Mann directing Natalie Portman as a homicide detective in Los Angeles. And she comes across someone. Maybe it could be another female banker. - She falls in love with Neil's son. - Neil Jr. - Neil Jr. - Neil Jr. - He had a son. We didn't realize. Even with Danny Trejo's daughter. - Yeah, it's a heat two. - Yeah. - That'd be a good one. - Would you reboot it? Any actors who you think would be good at squaring off against each other? - Who would be the two you'd want to put off? - So who is the modern equivalent of the heat diner scene? - I don't think there is. I don't think anyone means as much of this generation as the near-emprachino met in the mid-90s to people who love movies. - I think the two guys who are up there. I think would be for me would probably be Downey and Denzel. - Not on that to near-emprachino. - No, of course not. But in terms of like movie stars who have acting chops, who would be really interesting to see the two of them square off. I think Downey and Denzel. - Who would be Downey and Leo? - Can't we all have to be down to that Denzel's kind of. - But I still think that when Denzel really grabs the stick shift that goes. You know, it's like, I think he still has incredible moves. He's getting like in flight, he's still like, oh, Denzel is an incredible actor. - Daneo De Lewis and Downey? - No, I feel like it has to be like guys who feel like that you'd see them on Wilshire. You'd see them on Figueroa. You'd see them in it. - That's an open challenge to Daneo De Lewis. - I mean, of course Dan Jones. - You don't think I can do that movie? - You don't think I can do it? - I'll do it. - He would probably move to Los Angeles for two whole years and work in a abandoned driving. - Right. - Just to feel like he knew what it was like there. - I'm working at an old blockbuster on Fairfax. Don't you tell me what I can and conduce there. - I'll do whatever I want Chris Ryan. - All of our exits are Larry Boe and Junior Yves. - All right, he, I give it a thousand thumbs up. - Yeah. - I think it's, I don't think it's aged at all. - It has. There's nothing wrong with this. - It's great. - Like even Pulp Fiction, I feel like his age to Tiny Bit and some of those movies from the 90s. This one has not. This one could be released in the theaters right now. - He too. - He's Natalie Portman coming to theaters in two years. - Would you like me to? - We'd rather be. - We'd rather be. - He too or Netflix. - 12 episode modern heat. - He too. Cause I want the big screen experience. - All right, there you go. - Chris Ryan. - Pleasure. - Happy 20th anniversary, my friend. - Thank you. - You too. [BLANK_AUDIO]