09. Healing Fat Loss, Mindset, & the Messy Middle with Zoë Schroeder

[MUSIC] Hi, friends, and welcome to the high functioning hot mess. I'm Elizabeth, a registered dietitian, functional practitioner, and highly sensitive human, learning to move through the world with more softness and a lot more intention. This is a space for women who are tired of white knuffling their way through healing, a place where we tell the truth about how messy it can be, and also where we allow ourselves to romanticize the process when it feels right. Fear craving gentleness. If you want healing to feel a little less clinical and a little more human, and even fun in the moments where that's possible, you're going to feel right at home here. So settle in, and let's get into today's episode. Hello, and welcome back to another episode of the high functioning hot mess. Today, I'm super excited to have my friend Zoe on the podcast. And Zoe Shroder is a registered dietitian, certified strength and conditioning specialist, and the founder of Zoe Shroder Nutrition, which is an online coaching business that helps women achieve sustainable fat loss without restriction. She has a master's degree in sports nutrition and a background in personal training. Zoe combines evidence-based strategies with a real-life application to help clients ditch the dieting cycle, build confidence, and finally see lasting results. She's known for her realistic and science-backed approach to nutrition. Her passion for helping women feel strong in their bodies and her relatable, compassionate coaching style. When she's not working one-to-one with clients or leading her growing team of dietitians, you can find her traveling, lifting heavy weights, concocting new recipes, enjoying nature, eating ice cream, or cheering on women as they step into their healthiest, most empowered selves. And she is an absolute dream. I'm so excited. She's here. Welcome, Zoe. Thanks. Oh, thank you so much for that. That was so great. I'm excited to be here. Yay, I'm so excited to have you. So for those of you who don't know, I have worked with Zoe. She was actually the dietitian who helped me get ready for my wedding because it's hard to dietitian yourself, especially in a high stress period. And so I can say first, Dan, that she's phenomenal to work with. And her compassionate coaching style is absolutely 100% true. She's just the loveliest and so much fun to work with. So thank you for being a part of my journey, too. Yeah. Well, I just love our friendship journey. And you know, like we did some business coaching together and then we were able to work together in getting ready for your wedding, which was great. And like now we're, you know, friends and we're business festies. And it's just so cool to be able to continue to see this friendship and relationship grow both from like a business perspective, but also and like what you're doing now with this podcast, which is so awesome. I'm so proud of you, but also, you know, just kind of like seeing how life continues to unfold as we each grow in different capacities. And we talk about this a lot, but I'm so excited for the day that we will finally one day meet in person, hopefully next year. Oh my gosh, that would be amazing putting it into the into the universe because I live in Wisconsin. She lives in Arizona. And right now, what I wouldn't give to be an Arizona because it is snowy. I'm so in girls. Yes, I won't rub it in. It's really nice. I love it. Well, we're going to jump right in here. What does the term high functioning hot mess mean to you, Zoe? Well, I would say that the high functioning hot mess means like, and I'm going to relate it to myself because I definitely feel like this sometimes where it's it feels as though it's got so much going on and your brain is so busy and it's so full and there are so many to do lists and there are so many things to not forget. And it's and you're just having to hold it all together, but like still get shit done. And that is something that feels like a lot of time of my life, but I try to embrace seasons where it doesn't feel as busy. I'm definitely still growing through that because that's a that's an area of opportunity for me to get better at, but you know, feeling the high functioning hot mess being that you're getting things done, but you're kind of hanging on by a thread and it feels like there are just so many things to do at all times. But you're doing it anyway. I love that. And I think that's why the title resonates with so many people because I think all of us feel that way. I don't know. I don't know a single person, even like listening to other podcasts, the people who are really successful. It's like everybody kind of says the same thing. Like you might look successful from the outside and you have all these things you're getting done, but it just kind of life kind of feels like this never ending to do list. And so I think that's a great way to describe it. That's super relatable. And it was something that my husband and I were talking about a couple weeks ago. I brought it up. We were just, you know, enjoying a hot tub and I was just like, you know, I'm so grateful for the internet and you know, technology and all of these things, but it's also so interesting because yeah, there were a lot of things to do when let's say the 50s and the 60s where you're a woman and maybe you are working, but you're getting, you know, the kids ready and the house staying clean and that's our thing. But it's like that's kind of the extent of your world is within your, your, your little realm, right? Your little world. And now it's like we have this beautiful opportunity to expand our world to be the whole world. Yes, but that also comes with so much extra stuff. Like I don't know if it's task related or just social media related, but there's just like, it feels like so much more and so much heavier nowadays. Yes, there's like more energy that we're all carrying because we see more forever. Like I know what you're saying. Like it used to be just like your own home, your own community. And now it's like the world is your community, but that's like a billion people. So that's a lot of energy and like community to be holding and making space for. So okay, so you've built like this super beautiful strong authentic presence in the nutrition space for anyone who is new to your story. How did you get into nutrition in the first place and what led you to create Zoe's shoulder nutrition? Yeah, well, I actually was just sharing this story with the TikToks. So I, it's kind of like the emotion is fresh. So I'm happy for this question. There was a moment when I had just been denied for the second year in a row from nursing school. And I was sitting on the floor up against the wall in my, you know, college college apartment, tear streaming down my face, a pit in my stomach. Because I felt like that was at rock bottom, you know, like I felt like, and you know, in hindsight, like a lot of people go through that. It's not necessarily rock bottom, but in that moment, that's how it felt. And it felt like I had been putting so much energy, so much effort, so much money into a career path that I was just forcing. You know, like not feeling when you're doing something because you feel like it's right. And that that had been why I was going into nursing schools because it was a should. I felt like I should do it. I spent my whole life, you know, as a child saying I was going to be a doctor when I grew up. And then I, I remember going into college, like, okay, I'm going to go to the pre- nursing path. And then see how, like see how that pans out if I want to go, you know, onto being a doctor, then fine, I'll do that. But it was only because I had that heavy should on me, you know? And like I really, when I got to the root of it in that moment, like having to have that come in the genus party with myself of, is this something I truly want or is this something I'm doing because I feel like I should? And, you know, as a capricorn, as an eldest daughter, I feel like I definitely carry a lot of that I need to do what's like expected of me or like I put a lot of expectation and pressure on myself to do to, you know, all those things. So anyway, that moment was pivotal for me because, and let me just preface that by saying I got really good grades in college. I was in the pre- nursing club. I was doing all of the volunteer hours. I was doing everything to a T by the book of like how to get into nursing school and my advisor even said like, is that way I'm so sorry I don't know what to tell you I guess try again next year. And so it wasn't like I could be doing more, you know, I just wanted to clarify that because like obviously I know that nursing school is hard to get into and you need to be doing a good job, but I did a good job. I was just be clear about that. But it was that moment of okay, this is not what I actually want to be doing. I don't want to be working in the hospital. I don't feel passionate about this, but it allowed me that reflection on I had taken a nutrition class as a gen ed just because I was interested. And that kind of catapulted this exploration into nutrition as a career path. And I even learned what a dietitian was because I didn't know. And I was just really lit up by it. So I switched my major and really started digging into, of course, nutrition and the key for me was that that shift was not only pivotal for my career journey into something that I'm so deeply passionate about, but it also took me on a journey that I desperately needed at the time, which was healing my own relationship with food and helping me get out of a really dark and disordered path that I was going down to try to lose weight. Learning the science of nutrition and the human body and how and why we need all of the things that we do, I was able to apply that to myself as the kind of my own case study and it was through that that I saw what can happen when you are fueling your body and when you do things, you know, in an evidence-based way. And for me, that was so transformational with my own body composition. Actually, I was able to see a significant change in my body composition as well as that relationship with food and really get out of that kind of restrictive dieting mindset and the whole eat less and exercise more to lose weight. And so that was got, that's what really got me interested and on the path to, of course, nutrition becoming a dietitian. And I started Zoe Shorter Nutrition not right away, right? It was several years after I had already been at that register dietitian. I was working in the hospital, and I was like, yep, definitely don't want to be working in a hospital. So got that clinical experience and moved along. Had several other jobs, each kind of propelling me forward in experience, and that next step that I needed in order to grow into the dietitian and the person ready to start a business. And I definitely didn't feel ready when I did it, but I was just like, I know that I can help so many more women if I were to take this business online and to take this leap of faith. And really, that on myself to just try. And now I was still working full time. And that doesn't mean that I'm like, I'm going to take this leap of faith and quit my job and do these things, which, you know, if that's something that you do, great more power to you, but for me, that wasn't, wasn't the option, but it was taking calls before and after work. It was working really long hours. I still work really long hours, but it has been, it was that moment that I knew that I needed to at least try, because I was so used to always doing something more. You know what I mean? Like, I think this also really backs to the high functioning hotness. Like, you know, when I was in my dietitian internship, I was also working part time. And then I was getting my, then I was working full time, then I was getting my masters. And then I was done with those things. And I was getting my CSES certification. And then there was this moment where I was like, only working full time. I put that in air quotes, only working full time. And I was like, wow, so much free time. I should, I should start a business. So I like, God forbid I get home at 4.30 and actually enjoy my evening. But no, I'm so grateful that I did that and so blessed for now five years, over five years of Zoe Shorter Nutrition and really just so proud of what has come of it, how it has grown, how I have grown within myself and within the business as well. I know that was a very long. We went back like over 10 years here, but I wanted to give you the full story because it feels all relevant. Yes. Oh my gosh, I love hearing all that because I didn't know even all of that either. And I think it's so funny. Like I relate to your story so much in that like I had like my own moments of like rejection in terms of like I didn't get into the dietetic internship that I wanted. And I was like new. I was going to get it. I actually got my last choice. And it was like all these things that like if I hadn't gotten that internship, I wouldn't have stayed in the area where I live now. And I wouldn't have met my husband. And it's like just all those like it always happens for a reason. And I love that in your story. Like you eventually looked at that resistance as like this is a closed door. Maybe I need to look at my other options. And it led you to where you are now. And also like I don't know if this is just an entrepreneurial thing. But like why do we have to have so many jobs? Like I have like the same page of you. Like I tried many different things. And ultimately I always knew I wanted to do be my own boss and like do my own business. But like even now I still have like three jobs at one time, right? Plus then there was the makeup business for a while. It's like we're just multi-passionate. We love to do a million things. Yep. Absolutely. And I just want to share. I got full body chills when you were sharing about how you getting your last choice of internship. You know, allowed you to stay in your area and meet your husband. And like every single thing, I'm like I think I choked up. And so I like believe in this so much. Like every single thing in life that feels hard or that feels like at the time like your earth is crumbling. You always can look back and see how that was such a pivotal important moment for the next piece of your journey. And I know that that's so true for me. And it sounds like it's so true for you too. And that's true for everybody. It is. Yes. And I think if you can just have that mindset reframe it, like it makes all the difference. And even when because that's happened to me so many times, now I feel like when I am in the middle of a shit storm, I'm kind of like, well, you know, something might come out of this. That's actually okay. It really sucks right now. But it's like the more you have that like evidence to back up that that's happened in the past. It makes you more resilient to be like, okay, well, something's going to come from this. And I guess I better just hang on, buckle up and enjoy the ride. Yeah. Absolutely. And you know, I had a situation like that earlier this year in business. And at the time, I was like, I was able to pause in that moment and really reflect on, okay, this is happening for a reason. Let's buckle down. Let's get through it. And you know, now I'm really, you know, quite happy that it happened that way because I like to think about it from the lens of you have to earn the next level. So you have to kind of like go through, at least that's the frame that I take with myself. Like whatever hard thing you're kind of going through, it's like, you can't enjoy that next step up in life for that next phase. If you don't earn it, because if you don't earn it, you're not going to appreciate it. And so being able to work through challenges and like for lack of a better term, eat shit for a little bit. And then, and then really like have that level up experience and then be so grateful and know that you earned it and you deserve it. Yes. I love that. And it makes me think too, like from a business perspective. I think I don't know if you have this experience, but when I first started my business, it was like, well, I like want 100 clients right now. And like as I've gone further along on my business journey, like I haven't had 100 clients at one time ever, I don't think I could even handle that. Like who can handle like that many like people at one time, but it's like from that perspective and even in life, like you have to build your capacity to take on the next like blessing or whatever the next level is. I feel like. Yes, absolutely. And I have absolutely had that happen in business. I've had that happen, you know, in personal life, I like to reflect on that a lot with past relationships. And you know, now my amazing husband and how I had to go through a lot of challenging situations in order to earn and deserve this really beautiful love that I now get to live. And I'm so grateful for it. Yes. And you're grateful for it because of that. I love all of that. Oh, so beautiful. We're going to shift gears a little bit. So one of the kind of-- Yeah, I know we can keep talking about that. But as far as your business, I want to like, especially having been a previous client, like I would love to hear in your own words, what does realistic attainable fat loss actually mean to you, especially in a world that's obsessed with quick fixes and extremes because I feel like that gets thrown around a lot on the internet. Like this is realistic and attainable fat loss. Well, what the hell is that? So please enlighten us. Yes, definitely. It is genuinely something that I feel so passionately about because it's might-- like I live it, right? It's like I like being able to show-- yes, I went through my own journey. But now I'm kind of like in this place where I eat ice cream, I go out to dinner, I have a cocktail here and there. And I have all of these other habits in place that help me maintain my body composition that I'm quite happy with, right? And so for me to be able to have gone through that journey on my own, it's very a different level of relatability from my experience to then be able to come to come-- because if I hadn't done that on my own or had my own struggles with it, like it would be very inauthentic. to be kind of telling people what to do. I'm not saying you can't tell people what to do without doing it yourself, but you know, whatever. So to me, the realistic attainable fat loss means reaching those goals, creating that fat loss that you desire in a way that you just keep doing what you're doing. Because if, and also, like I had mentioned before, I had done a lot of crazy sketchy stuff to try to be smaller and lose weight. But I also, after doing kind of that, that healing journey on my own, and right before I graduated college, I actually did a bodybuilding competition. And obviously, that is not sustainable. However, I took it upon myself to do it in a way that I was still incorporating, like, my own versions of different things, rather than just eating a super strict meal plan of chicken and rice and broccoli every meal five days, five meals a week, a day, right? So with that experience and being able to see, tangibly see a significant change in body fat and body composition through doing it in a way that we're not necessarily taught, right? Like a lot of these things that have come about my philosophies and my style with coaching are things that I've learned with myself and were learned with working with many, many clients over the years. And so being able to help support people on, oh, you have a birthday party coming up. Let's talk through strategies. Or if we are tracking your macros, okay, you want to plan for date night and a couple cocktails. Well, let's make it work in and really going at it from the lens of whatever we're doing now to reach your goals. Let's, we're just focus on the habits to continue doing that long term because there is no finish line. If not, you lose 20 pounds and then tada, you did it. And that's why most diets fail, right? Most diets leave you at the, you come to them because you're frustrated, you want to lose weight or whatever it is. And you are given a plan and you follow it. And maybe you do lose those 20 pounds, but there's no after. There's no after, right? There's a, you reach your goal, okay, bye, good luck, like a job. And then that's why so, so, so many people backslide and gained back the weight they lost and generally less some more because they're not taught what to do afterwards. So in my coaching, it's, it's very much a baby step approach where we set behavior-based goals, behavior-based because you can control them. We can identify the outcome based goal. So let's say the outcome goal is lose 20 pounds. I like to explain it as reverse engineer from the outcome, the behaviors that you need to achieve that outcome. So we have the outcome goal of lose 20 pounds. We've reverse engineered it to identify these small, the small handful of behavior-based goals that feel realistic to you. So I have a client actually it's a husband and wife they're doing it together, which I'm so happy about because they are supporting each other on it. But, you know, we, we just finished our first month and they, they were small goals, right? It's like, okay, let's say for right now you're drinking 20 ounces of water. Can we just set a goal to drink 30 ounces of water this week? Or if you're at 3000 steps a day, can we just make it the goal to get to 4000 steps? And I think that's where a lot of people get it wrong. It's like, especially with New Year's resolutions, it's, I'm going to do all the things. Oh, I should be walking 10,000 steps a day. Oh, I should be drinking a gallon of water a day. And so the health and wellness industry, so in so many areas, get it, gets it wrong in that we're feeling like we have to change everything all at once because we're used to seeing that big change, you know, those mags, the top, the magazine headlines of lose 10 pounds in in two weeks or whatever it is, you know, with the like girl on the front of the magazine. And so identifying, meeting the client where they're at, identifying what those behavior-based goals are and then each week, checking in and saying, okay, is this something that we still need to work on? Or is it at the point where it is now a habit? And that's the key, the shift from a goal to a habit. And then over time, the goal is that we just keep stacking these habits on top of each other, on top of each other, on top of each other, on top of each other. So that over the course of, I don't know, let's say six months because that's generally the minimum amount of time that I work with people because we do want to give our body that time to see the change, but more importantly, to actually change the habits and change the behaviors. But at the end of however many months, we can look back and think, oh my goodness, look at how many, how the change, look at how my lifestyle is completely different, but in a way that is very intentionally not overwhelming. And in a way that does feel realistic because each week you're working on something that's small, like, oh, I only have to get an extra thousand steps in a day, that's easy. And then it's building that momentum and successes that they just motivate. You don't feel motivated to follow through with your goals. If you're, if you're not reaching your goals and if you're beating yourself up for, oh my gosh, I can get 10,000 steps in again again today. And that is that negative self-talk spiral. So when we have smaller, more achievable goals, that builds momentum because that builds that confidence and not feeling of motivation to continue taking that positive action to reinforce the new behavior. Yes. I love how passionate you are about this. This is so good. So good. No, I love it. Good. Let's bring the passion today. I feel like, like, what I love about what you said is that whatever you're doing to lose the way it better be the same thing you're planning to do to keep it off. And I, you're so right. That's like what everybody gets wrong when it comes in like diaculture. And it wreaks like metabolic havoc on everybody because how many women have you worked with who are in their like 40s, 50s, 60s who are like yo-yo dieting for years. And then they come to you and it's like, oh, I just needed to eat a little bit more and be consistent and not overhaul my entire life. And they're starting to see progress for the first time in their life. And they don't want to like their, it's not ruining their life, you know, because I think so many people are so miserable when they do like the diets with the shakes and bars and all of that stuff, which again, like been there dumb that like I get it. But when you realize that it's really like the unglamorous habits that get you where you want to go, but there are ones that make your life more like livable and enjoyable, it's like way more worth it. And I can say that I learned obviously being a dietician, I knew a lot of these things, but it was so helpful to have someone like hold my hand through that when I was getting ready for my wedding. And I will say to like when I came to you, I was definitely like a spiral panic, something about being a bride, I don't know, it just puts a whole other level of pressure on like the body image and things that you think like you had figured out are like kind of out the window. And you were so good at reassuring me and helping talk me through things like, oh my gosh, my dress doesn't fit the way I wanted to. What do I do with like what types of workouts should I be doing? And just making it very realistic. And one thing you said to me in like just our little like brief discovery call that we did when I was like, help, I need you to help me. You were like, well, what is your goal? And I gave you a number and you were like, well, realistically, I don't think we can do all of that, but this is what I think we can do in the time that we've been given. And I think that was helpful too, because it wasn't like you're promising any quick fixes, you're not promising grand results, you're helping me feel like something is doable. And I think that hope is what so many people need when it comes to like any journey, whether it's weight loss or healing emotionally or physically, I think that like you do such a great job of being like, you can do this and you don't even like doubt it. So then you're like, well, if she doesn't doubt it, I'm not going to doubt it either. Like you can just keep going. And I love that. Oh, thank you for that. Yeah, there are so many little nuggets in there. I want to want to speak on one being specifically you mentioned. The women who come to me with a, you know, likely decades of dieting history. And from that mindset of I just need to eat less, right? Like I would say over definitely over 50, I would say closer to 75% of new clients come to me and they're under eating and they're maintaining their weight, right? And it's from that lens that we can then build awareness around, okay, this is what your body actually needs. Here's what you're actually eating right now. I remember a client that I started working with at the beginning of this year. She was like barely eating a thousand calories a day. And she was like, I don't, you know, like super like manic about it also because it was like, I don't know how much less I can eat. And what's really cool is, and this is the part that like I get super fired up about as well because I saw it happen with me and I see it happen time and time and time again with clients, which is when we do a very intentional reverse diet and and actually that something that a lot of clients start with, like I said, like about 75%. We're actually building consistency around the intake and slowly building it back up. And with that increase of, you know, intentional increase of calories over time, we see that metabolic adaptation, but in a positive way. And I like to explain it as your body at this point is like hanging on for your life. It's like, I don't know when she's going to feed me again. I'm getting barely enough to keep my brain functioning, right? Organs, the bare minimum. But I'm holding on to this extra fat because I need it because I'm not getting what I need. And this is me protecting myself, right? It's a biological, a physiological protection mechanism, right? So then when your body starts to consistently get enough of what it needs, it's like that cyber relief of, oh, okay, I know that I'm going to get what I need on a regular basis. So I can actually, I don't need to hold on to so much extra stores because I don't need this extra energy saved for later, aka body fat, because I know that I'm going to get what I need on a consistent basis. And that is a very hard hill to climb with a new client, especially when they're in that mindset. And I'm like, I know it's scary to eat more, especially the carbohydrates, right? I know it's scary. Trust me, I've been there. But I just, please trust me and I promise you are going to be so grateful. And not only, you know, body composition and fat loss aside, like the amount of energy, the improvement and sleep, the improvement in mood, like all of these things that are benefits that like, you know, maybe somebody comes to me because they want to lose weight, but they don't even realize that there are all, you know, in relationship with food stuff aside, like there are so many, you know, biometric feedback things that we can look at that show, yeah, your body is so much happier when we're actually fueling it. I love that. Not to bring the mood down, but isn't it kind of sad that like, as you're talking, I'm like, yep, working as a dietitian every single day, I have these same exact conversations with my clients. And it's like, just the way the diet industry has been like, to be a freight of carbs, like you said, like, I know it's scary to eat more, especially carbs. It's like the same conversations. And it's just this insidious thing that like, diaculture has warped so many, not even women, just everybody's brains. I know even talking to my husband, like, I know he won't mind me sharing stuff, but like, he gets like nervous about like eating too much or like, just not knowing. I think we just, that's why I love being a dietitian. I love being part of this is like, there's so much education around just like proper nourishment that's not restrictive that we need to do. And I love that you do that so well. Yeah, it's so powerful. And it bleeds into so many other areas of life that you don't even realize, you know? Mm-hmm. Yes, yes. I'm curious to like, looking back where there are moments in your own journey when diaculture still had like a grip on you even after you knew better. Yes, actually. And, you know, I used to have so much shame around it when it was happening. It was actually like, right after I became a dietitian, no, that's wrong. Right after I graduated with my nutrition degree, and I was not yet a registered dietitian because for those who don't know, even when you graduate with your bachelor's, that's not the end of the road. You still have to do an entire generally about a year-long unpaid. You paid to do this for the hour a week in turn ship, and then you sit for the national exam, and then if you pass, then you become a registered dietitian. So I had just graduated from college, and I had just finished my, like around that time, I had done that bodybuilding composition, like I mentioned. But the aftermath was something that caused me a whole heck of a lot of pain and shame, because I didn't know what to do afterwards, right? There was a whole bunch of body dysmorphia that I was going through, and my relationship with food was actually in a worse place than it had been in a really long time. And I felt a lot of shame because here I was, I just graduated with my degree in nutrition. I had already felt like I had undergone my own journey of healing that relationship with food, and I wasn't a really good spot before I did the show. And afterwards, I was when my bingeing and purging really spiraled. And it was like this whole thing of like, why can't I stop doing this? I know better. And of course, continuing to beat myself up about it wasn't helping. And so there was a, it was actually again, that pivotal moment, like a special reflection of, you know, your life. I had just done that bodybuilding competition really spiraling with my nutrition and eating habits, and you know, just about to graduate from college. And it was also the time when I bought my first house. And I moved into my first house all by myself. I was so proud of myself for accomplishing this, you know, there's always happening at the same time. So talk about high functioning hot mess, again, like we need to do all the things all at once. But I made the decision going into that new environment. I just decided I'm, I cannot, this is not okay. So I just kind of like put my foot down and moved into my house. And I was not going to allow myself to bring that energy, that negativity, and that behavior that I knew wasn't healthy or serving me into this new space. And so it was, and then I was able to kind of regate my grasp on things. And then I started my internship. And then you know, the sports nutrition, the sports nutrition masters was also a really good kind of reminder of bringing me back to what I knew I needed to do in order to take care of myself. So yeah, I mean, I definitely abdined flowed with my own relationship with food and and journey. It wasn't like a, you know, there was that there was a nice big linear growth moment. And then there was the backslide. And then there was even more exponential growth from there, which I think mirrors a lot of other people's journey as well. And if you're struggling with whether it's weight loss or relationship with food or any other kind of journey in your life, know that it's never going to be linear. Because if you think it's going to be perfectly linear, then you're doing yourself a massive disservice and show yourself some grace in knowing that if you backslide or if you say the same or there's going to be these bumps along the way, it's not you doing anything wrong. It's you just being on the journey and you have to keep pushing forward. And over time, you will get there. Yeah, it's just being human, right? Like it's we all have our own shit that we have to deal with. And any like I feel like we're each kind of given like a little I would say like cross to bear kind of thing. And it's like it's that thing that's going to just kind of keep popping up. And there's different ways you can approach it on a healing journey. But yeah, regardless of you can be doing everything right. And I think it's very, very normal to still struggle. In fact, I think that is the that is the thing to expect, expect to struggle like while you're trying to overcome something or work on something. And I think it just takes, you know, a different shape and different seasons of our life too. I'm curious like how do you manage your own mindset and health now? Well, I mean, you've still got a lot of stuff going on. You're running a business and leading a team of dietitians now. How do you manage like mindset and physical health? You know, the mindset growth has really been a last couple of years thing like on another one of your podcast. I think it was an episode of your podcast, you know, I really related to the only reading that I really had done for many, many, oh, it was your hobbies episode. That's right. Where was the like self development self help, which I love. And I still listen, I still do those books a lot and podcasts and all that sort of thing because I love continuing to grow and be better. But that is something that there had been that shift of like just, you know, reading about it or listening about it and talking with clients about it in their own journey. And also implementing it in myself and those and reframing. And I do it all the time and it takes practice, right? It's just like anything else. It's not that all of a sudden, you know, oh, I need to refrain this and you reframe it to a thought that is better serving for you. But it's not that neuropath way. It hasn't been, you know, completely formed. Yeah, it's not so strong that it's your your automatic thought. You have to keep reinforcing it, right? And that's something that I'd say more so in other aspects of life and business that I do that more because my health and nutrition and exercise, it's it's just so much a part of who I am and what makes me feel good and my best that I don't really have too many roadblocks with that. But I do have a specific example because it came up not too long ago. In November, November 15th, I ran my first half marathon. And I have a whole video I like did I had a whole bunch of challenges getting to that day race, but we did it. I'm really proud of myself, but it was in that week leading up to it. And mind you, I have had many runner clients and I was actually working with two clients who were running the same race one doing the half marathon and one doing the full marathon. And so, you know, like same timeline, everything we were talking through their car bloating and what they needed to do the week leading up and the day up. And I remember like being on the week of the half marathon. I was like, but I don't like I'm not hungry. I don't want to eat like all these extra carbs, for example. And I had to like remove myself and I had to, you know, clot and look at it slowly, solely from the lens of you are helping people do this for this exact same race. Don't think about it as you just do the plan and follow the plan because you know what you're supposed to do. So I did it, you know, and that was I'd say one that was kind of funny. And I was like, okay, like, and this is what I want to do. But this is no, this is what I'm going to do. So I just did it. And, you know, obviously the race went great and everything else. But yeah, there are definitely those reframe moments. And even just today, from a business perspective, having a moment where I needed to pause and reframe my thought process around something and know that the energy that I think about something so hugely impacts what you're going to receive back, whether that's from, you know, other people or what you kind of create for yourself. And so that's something that's huge with clients too. Like you can't, you can't bully yourself. You can't hate yourself into a body that you love. So how can we find things that you love? And that's why every single call I always start with, what are you proud about? We always set the scene of even if it's a small thing, I've plenty of clients were like, oh, like, I don't have anything. And I'm like, nope, we're going to find one. We're going to find it. We're going to celebrate it. And, you know, it is genuine. I genuinely celebrate these things because life happens and life is hard. And if we only focus on what's going wrong and what you're not doing, that's all you're going to see. So how can we reframe that into something that you're proud of that we can use as that fuel motivation? Mike drop those. I love it. Yes, it's, oh my gosh, I feel like the mindset work is like what people don't realize when you go into again, any, any healing journey, but especially like being a dietician too, like people don't realize how much mindset work you have to do. And it doesn't seem like it's going to be really fun. And again, it's kind of like unglamorous habits that move the needle, but like, it, they do, they really move the biggest difference. Absolutely. And, you know, as my coaching has grown over the years, like I get more excited and fired up about the mindset work now, then I do about the nutrition. Like the needs of stuff is fine. But it's like a bit repetitive, right? And I also wish that I, you know, I can't go back and I wouldn't change my, my growth trajectory, but just knowing, like the things that I know, now and some of the going back to some of the, you know, we're flexing on some of the clients that I was working with at the beginning. I'm like, oh dang, I wish I would have had this tool to help them through or like these different types of things. But, you know, that's part of the journey as we talk about. Yes, it is. And like still kind of staying on the same thread with mindset. Like I mentioned, you are my dietician during my wedding prep. What do you wish more brides or just women in general go undergoing some, like transformational season? Like what do you wish they understood about fat loss and mindset and self compassion? Okay. Well, I like how you called out the expectation management, right at the beginning of our call, like our discovery call. I'm not here to burst anybody's bubble, but I'm here to also not make false promises. And if you're on a call with somebody or you're working with a coach who promises you something that feels unrealistic and you get excited about it. Like, I'm sorry, but that's a red flag. And what I wish more women knew is that it's going to be, it's, it's likely going to take longer. It's going to be a lot more mindset and emotional work than you think it is going to be. And if you think that continuing to put other people, your kids, your husband, your job, like we all know we need to put these things, these things are a priority. And I'm not discrediting that. And also we always hear like, oh, yeah, fill your own cup first. You need to prioritize yourself. And I think at this point, it's kind of over, over done, but it's not actionable. It doesn't feel actionable. And that's something that I, I hugely practice in my own life. I know that if I don't go outside for a walk and get some, some fresh air at some point in the day, like I'm going to be feeling really drained. If I know, if I'm not able to eat breakfast or do these things that I know help me show up as my best self because that's the reality. You will not be able to show up as your best self for all these other people that you want to show up as your best self for, right? It's actually doing them a disservice. You not taking care of yourself. You not putting yourself first and making sure that your, your cup is filled up and at least doing the things baseline that you need to be feeling your best. It's actually more selfish to not do that because then you're, you're showing up as not your best version of you for those people. Yes. Yes. Exactly. I think. Yeah. It's, it seems so counterintuitive. And I agree, like the failure on cup thing is very like cliche at this point, but it's like you said it lacks that, that tangibility that makes sense. When you put it that way, it makes so much sense. Like you have to do these things to take care of you. Otherwise, you're going to be snapping at your husband. You're going to be screaming at your kids. You're going to be doing half ass work because you don't care. And that's because you're not holding space for yourself and you're not giving yourself like recharging, refueling, giving yourself time to, to feel good because it's me. Yeah. I'm just going to keep repeating what you're saying because you said it so well. You're, you're 100% right. And I think that's, that's so helpful, especially too for like, again, kind of going back to like the bridal piece, like during that time is so stressful as is. And I think a lot of women just go into that like quick fix mode because they just, it's a, it's a one day thing. And there are times where I'm like, this is being very honest. And I don't want to like trigger anyone by saying this, but there are times when I was getting ready for my wedding where I'm like, I wish I just would have done the quick fix because I wanted to see the results. And while I still have like my moments with that, I am so glad that I did it. The way that I did with you because I needed someone to just hold me along the same trajectory of like, you're not done after your wedding. This is like, you're going to, we're going to get as good as we can or we're already good enough, right? But like we're going to accomplish as much as we can realistically and healthfully as we can before the wedding. And after the wedding, we just keep on moving. It's just another piece of the puzzle. And while I don't still work with you, I still, I actually still do the workouts that you gave me. So those are really helpful. I do still keep that mindset of like, I didn't feel like it ended. It just changed. Like I changed what I was starting to do for my health. And I like I said, it's hard to dietician yourself when you're in like a really like high pressure season. So I was so grateful I had you for that. But I keep so many of the principles that we worked on together in my daily life. And they just, they've just evolved. And I think that's like also really like strong testament to what a good coach you are is like, when people are ready to try it on their own and spread their wings and do their own thing. Like you know what you've done your job. Yeah. And that's actually something that I say all the time, like especially on a discovery call. So I discovered those kind of like that consultation where I'm getting to know the potential client learning more about their journey, their goals, you know, just what it is that they're looking for and what has brought them to that point. And then of course, like our options for working together. But my ultimate goal is not to help you reach your body composition goal. Like, yeah, that's great. I love doing that. It's fun. It's, you know, the sex at your side of the job. My goal is for you to not need me like genuinely know that you're so confident in your skills and in your habits that you don't need me and you don't need to go on another diet or hire another coach. I mean, you know, hire another coach for something else. That's great. But like in terms of like, no, I like you said, spread your wings. I am so confident in my skills that you can graduate and know that you are going to continue doing what we've worked on because that was the whole point. Yes, exactly. What is like the most rewarding part for you for watching your clients, not just to your bodies. Like you said, that's the sexier part of the job, but then heal their relationship with food in themselves. Yes, it's kind of like the intersection of the two because the part that I love the most is when somebody is telling me how good they feel in their body. Like how they wore that dress or they, you know, they're, they finally felt, you know, sexy in front of their husband or they are feeling like a sense of confidence within themselves that they haven't felt in years or sometimes their whole life. And that comes from, like I said, the intersection of the body composition work, sure. But the mindset relationship with food peace because feeling confident in your skin is not about being in your smallest body. It's being feeling strong in your body. It's about feeling fueled in your body. It's about feeling energized in your body and know that you're taking care of yourself. And like, well, yeah, I'm doing that. Yes, I'm taking care of myself. And I feel amazing. And, and that's what I really love because it's, it comes from that culmination of all these things that we're working on of I, you know, maybe I went to a holiday party and I felt for once in control around the Sharkutari board. And I didn't deprive myself of it. But I just, I, you know, implemented the strategies that we've been working on. And I feel good and I wasn't in dress and I felt hot and like all those things like just how do these those moments where it really is that that culmination of all these things and they see it and they feel it in their bones. That's what I love. I love that so much. I feel like you do such a good job of like, I feel like die culture was here first. And then there's the side of, I guess, the internet or the world that's like body positivity. Don't change yourself at all. Like, and I feel like while that means well and that that that's true. Like you don't have to. There's still so many of us who are like, but I want to feel better. And like aesthetic changes are still something I desire. And I think that you do such a good job of being in that messy middle ground where it's like, no, we're not going to do this the way that's going to be harmful or diet, culture, yucky. But we're also like you like a true, like even if you want to go as far as like one of the like pillars of intuitive eating is like autonomy, like body autonomy. You have the choice. Like if you want to change your body, go for it. I tell clients this a lot too. Like I'll absolutely help you get there. But like I will absolutely not let you hurt your metabolism on the way there. And I think you do such a good job of like articulating that and doing that when you work with clients. Thank you. And I like that you called it the messy middle because it feels like that, you know, being in that and it's almost contradictory if we think about like healing your relationship with food and reaching your body composition goals. Like it sounds counterintuitive. But when I, I, and I know that it can happen because I've done it and I see it with my clients. And it just makes me really excited because like, yeah, people get excited when they see their body change. If they've been working their ass off, you know, oh my gosh. Yes, of course. And I think there's nothing wrong with celebrating that because I mean, that's like a tangible fruit of your labor. Like seeing that your glutes are getting bigger and you wanted that. Like who doesn't want that, right? Like, okay. So there's people who don't. But like it's just, it's a tangible thing you can see when you've been working really hard. I don't think anyone should ever have to feel shame for being excited about their body. Yeah. Amen. Mike dropped on you. I love it. Well, okay. So we talked about how accomplished you are in your brand and just all the wonderful things you do and the people you help. What is next for you? And as always, shoulder nutrition. Well, this is something that has been a very long time in the making. So I'm so excited to like actually officially talk about it because it's been kind of hutch hutch for a while. And you know, over the past year, actually, I've been growing my team. So I now have five amazing dietitians working with Zoe's shoulder nutrition. I know. Like I'm so it's like that. Like I said, such a long time coming. I'm so proud of the business that we've built. And with this growth of the team and coming back to my mission, right? Like I created an online business so that I could help as many people as possible. And that I'm only one person I can only do so much. So I knew that in order to continue to grow and help more people, I was going to be able to or I need it to take on a team. And that has been like I said, a whole other host of challenges. But with that being said, we are now taking insurance, which has been a huge game changer in terms of accessibility. I am so I'm so excited because this is kind of like right in time for my birthday and my birthday gift to the world. That is my world. You know, my my birthday gift to my world is, you know, this now opportunity to get your nutrition coaching covered by insurance. Now, of course, it varies by your insurance plan and coverage and all those different types of things. But I'm so confident in this team of dietitians that we've built because, you know, obviously it's my brand. It's my name. This is a business that I care so deeply about. So I, of course, I'm going to be bringing on people that I have full trust in and that I have trained and that are aligned with the Zoe Shorter Nutrition philosophy and mission. And with that being said, that means I can we can serve so many more people. So I'm really excited about that. And especially with it being the beginning of the year, I know a lot of people have goals. And even though I'm not a big fan of New Year's resolutions, I'm a big fan of stepping into a New Year's intention and what that intention might mean for you and how you show up for yourself and not in the year. So that's what I'm really excited about. And I'm so eager to see how people utilize this, this awesome new avenue for working together. I love it. That is so exciting. Congratulations. I know that throughout the year, we've like continued to work really closely together and just support each other in our businesses. So I can say and vet the fact that like all of the dietitians that she's brought on her team, they had to meet the criteria that like align with her overall mission model, everything. So I think you can be very, very confident that your team is phenomenal. And this is just such an exciting step for you in your business. I'm so excited for you. Yes. Thank you so much. And of course, I'm still taking one-on-one clients as well. But just knowing that we can we can serve so many more people this way is just like, I'm so excited. It's you. It's awesome. And I think there's so many dietitians who go into business and this is like their dream. So I think it's so cool to see you like fulfill that dream. That's amazing. No. Thank you. Thank you so much. This has been so, so great. It was going to be a great conversation regardless because we always have so many things to talk about. But it's really great to have, you know, had this time to be on your show. And like I said before, I'm genuinely so, so excited and proud of you because this has been also a long time coming for you in your business. So let's celebrate that also. Thank you. Look at you just always being a celebratory cheerleader for every time I just adore you. Okay. So tell us like how people can connect with you on the interwebs. Yeah. So certainly Instagram is an easy way to connect with me. My handle is fat loss R.D. Zoe. Funny story about that. Some of my family, they're like fat loss road. I don't get it. Like, okay. It's for registered dietitian for anybody who might be confused. Fat loss R.D. Zoe. And then or going online, Elizabeth, if you don't mind, linking my website will actually link directly to that insurance page. So it's just Zoe Shrouder Nutrition.com. And from there, you can find all sorts of fun stuff, different ways of working together. But there is also the insurance page right there where you can not only check your benefits, but read about our different team dietitians and book an appointment with whomever speaks to you. I love it. Perfect. We'll have all of that linked in the show notes so people can reach out to you that way. And then I have two more very important questions. The first one is what is for dinner tonight. So all right, this has been like, this is like kind of, I've been, you know, concocting it in my mind. I'm sure you do the same thing. It's like, okay, I have to use this and I have this. We're going out to town. This begins. I have to use that. So anyway, I have like some veggies that I need to use up. So and then I have some chicken sausage so they found it, Trader Joe's. And I'm a huge fan of chicken pea pasta. We eat that all the time. And also I have some cottage cheese that's about to go bad. So I'm going to Here the chicken's on the side. sausages get a little crispy edge and cook the leftover bell peppers, mushrooms and spinach. All of these are like, you know, in their own Tupperware is about on the tail end of going bad. So I'm going to throw all that together with some garlic. So cook the veggies and the chicken sausage together. And then this is a little higher protein hack if anybody is like liking pasta and sauce. But you need to be a little higher protein. Of course, one being a swap for the chickpea pasta. But the other one being I actually am blending that leftover cottage cheese in with the marinara sauce. So that it's like, you know, reframe creamy vodka sauce. But it is going to be that kind of like creamy blended marinara sauce with the chickpea pasta veggies and sausage all mixed together. And then a little Parmesan cheese and fresh basil on the top. That sounds delicious and way for her to try when I come up with. But I will say to another plug for Zoe is she has amazing recipes on her Instagram. So if nothing else, follow her for that because I've, I think what have I made? Some of them were from when I was working with you. But the one that I made, I think you did it for Valentine's Day this year was like your chicken parm one in the air fryer. That one's good with spaghetti squash, right? Yes. Oh, I'm so glad you like that. Actually another one I just recently posted is a stuffed chicken parm, which I did a couple weeks ago is so, so good. So you'll have to check that out. Well, I love it. Her recipes are amazing. So yes, definitely check those out. But that sounds delicious. And then what is your, this is my favorite question. It's such a mouthful. What is your favorite beauty slash self care slash wellness products slash service slash person. So I had been thinking about this question and the one thing that kept popping into my mind is my shimmery body bronzer. I like, I don't know when I like you should just put it on for special occasions or on vacation or whatever. I don't know why I just started this year, actually. I put it on every day and I put it on to go to the gym. And because something there's something about being sparkly and a little bit bronze that just makes me feel good and it doesn't have to be a fancy brand. And that's what Fenty Beauty has one. I literally go to TJ Maxx and see what they have and it's just like brush it on or mix it in with my lotion. And then you just feel like a sparkly bronze goddess and that makes your day better. I love that I was going to ask you what brand you use. Gold Asian, there's one and I use that for my wedding. Honestly, I don't feel like it showed up as much as I wanted it to and I'm not really sure why, but that one's supposedly like one of the best ones out there. But I didn't even realize to look for that at TJ Maxx. So I'm going to have to do that next time I go. Yeah. And you know, I mean maybe one day I'll find like a brand that I stick to. But you know, I'm a TJ Maxx girl. So I'm happy to find the deals. I love it. One last thing I want to say too is something that has stuck with me a lot. I can't remember what we were talking about this. I was like within the last couple of months. But you were telling me that when, oh, I think I was doing personal training and you had suggested wearing like girly or colors and stuff to the gym because you're like, it's just nice to bring like that feminine energy into a place that's stereotypically more masculine energy. And I love that. Like it just, it makes me so excited to go to the gym because I'm like, ooh, looking me all cute and girly and here's just like me and my basement working out. So I don't know. It's just like, it's a fun way to only the process. I just love that. Yes. I'm so glad that six with you and for sure. Like if you're in a cute outfit and you're feeling cute. Like, I don't know. I feel like you have a better workout too. So. Yes, confidence. I feel like you just, you are like the confidence queen. So I love that. I love you. And thank you so much for being on the podcast today. Zoe was a pleasure and an honor and I'm sure we'll have to have you back some time. Well, I'll thank so much. It was a pleasure. Thank you so much for spending this time with me today. I hope something in this conversation helped you feel a little more understood and a little less alone. If you're enjoying the podcast, I'd love for you to subscribe, leave us a review or share an episode with a friend who might need this kind of gentleness too. It truly helps this space grow in the ways it's meant to. You can also come hang out with me on Instagram @ElizabethAliceRD. That's where I share more of these conversations in real time. And as always, here's to softness, curiosity and feeling more human. I'll talk to you soon. [BLANK_AUDIO]