"He's going to die" - Breaking bad news

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And you know that feeling when you're juggling deadlines, school runs, meetings, and shock horror. Even a workout? All before noon? Well, AC Jimbo calls that a day, ending and why. And I call that the kind of day where I reach for Onit's Alpha Brain. Alpha Brain is a daily, new, atropic formula that supports focus for memory and mental clarity while you're busy getting stuff done, whether that's powering through a tough set of the gym or staying sharp in back-to-back Zoom calls. Nice. I take it before my morning commute and it helps me tune out distractions and actually get into the zone instead of just going through the motions and doomscrolling, so I arrive at work ready to go. So if your day looks anything like mine, shop now at Onit.com. That's o-double-n-it.com and see what Alpha Brain can do for your focus. The Athletic FC. Hi there and welcome to the Athletic FC podcast with me, Emma Payton. Cole Palmer has put pen to paper on a new deal at Chelsea. So how has Jabbie Alonso got him back firing again? And elsewhere, our Everton, up for sale again, we're ready. Well, it is Tuesday, so you know what that means. The nice Joe David Ornstein, he's in the house. You know the Tuesday club is a podcast. I think that some Arsenal people do. Yes, yep. And it was based on the Tuesday club at Arsenal when Tony Adams was the captain and there was a big drinking culture. I feel sort of slightly. They were under doing it on the water. I thought we were having a long lunch up there. Exactly, we could do it. A different kind of Tuesday club, yeah? A different kind of Tuesday club, slightly more today, plenty of laughs and it's good to be back. Good. There is no James Horn Castle this week. But well, like Arsenal, we have strengthened depth on this podcast. So Broadcaster, host of the Ripple Effect podcast, James Ornstein. Welcome. Well, James Ornstein. I was going to say, actually, really works for us. You need to James. Just subbing him out, subbing you in. Yeah, I mean, big shoes to fill James Ornstein Castle. We're just talking about how wonderful his voice is. Hopefully people can deal with mine for an hour. Tell the audience is what you really say. Yeah. I love him. I just said that. I was just like, where is he from? You said, I heard a word that was like blast. And I love the way he struggles. I think strong voice and strong beard. I think it's really when he was articulating and then just sort of twiddles the beard. It's something I could only dream of. Yes. It's slightly hercule poirot. It is. It's a bit of an investigation. Yeah, and he is. Yeah. Talks was about the weekend because the Premier League was back and you were at a couple of games. What was it like at Annefield? Yeah. So first, I was at Arsenal against Leeds. And that was obviously the Premier League is back. It did feel like that there. Even though all the broadcasters were doing their bit about Manchester City and so on. But that was a nice return to actually have some football to focus on and talk about. Really impressed with Leeds, actually. And it's quite a big win for Arsenal in the context. Given they didn't play as fluidly as you would imagine. And Leeds are going to have a good season. They've got strength and a bit of depth there. Farcas doing better than a lot of people, given credit for. Then I was at Annefield the next day. And of course, it was the occasion that everybody had been waiting for over the previous two weeks. Pretty fibrous outside on the Annefield road with sort of flares and people gathering from two hours before kick off for the buses arriving. And a lot of derogatory chanting. A bit of confrontation between the two sets of fans. But then inside maybe not as raucous as you might have expected. There were moments where it was ear splitting. And it was building up to a crescendo just as Ryan Gravenberg's got sent off. Which was a pity for the neutral. And it felt like Liverpool had just got a bit of a stranglehold. The way that Manchester City took over from there was hugely impressive. But of course, it felt like a bit of a side story, the football from the case of the guilty verdict. And then it just leaves so many thoughts running through your head at the minute. So much uncertainty about it all. But personally, I'm happy the football's back and we got Champions League as well. Did it feel weird in there? It was the word, you know, when you're in terms of really feeling that atmosphere, what was it for you? Because watching it if it just felt really weird. Yeah, so I was pitch side doing some television as the Man City goalkeepers came out. That was the first sign of Man City inside Amfield. And I got to say it felt a bit pantomime. It was like booze and the odd chance. It didn't feel like sort of guttural anger and hatred at that point. And then similar as the full team came to warm up. Man City's players of such a high level and clearly very professional and focused. And they did their job really well. They remain composed throughout. And the celebrations of the players and fans at the end will divide opinion given the context. But it really is and has to be business as usual for City. And yeah, the amount of uncertainty at the moment and lack of clarity about what's going to come here after is maybe sort of leaving a black cloud lingering over football at the minute. And that's what it felt like at Amfield. Just a bit surreal because we've never experienced anything like this before. Normally there's a precedent for stuff. There isn't here and then as a reporter journalist, you don't know what to sort of make of ill. And we're asking ourselves the same questions over and over again. Where's it going to go from here and nobody really knows. So yeah, odd and the sooner without taking any kind of side in what's going to happen because we don't know the ultimate outcome to this. It's a period I just want to be over with as soon as possible so that we can move on with the so beautiful game. Let's move on this podcast shall we? Yeah, let's just get some paddle on the go this week. I've got tomorrow morning actually two hours of the bad boys. I do actually want to start with an exclusive story you broke over the weekend. David Cole Palmer has signed a new deal at Chelsea up until 2034. So tell us how this all happened and I guess the significance of this deal now. Yeah, Cole Palmer clearly is at the fulcrum of what Chelsea are trying to build. But there has been some speculation over his future. There's constant rumors in the football world, social media and maybe beyond about Manchester United. I presume that comes from the fact that he's from Manchester. He's got very strong ties there still, of course, family friends and some say he grew up as a man United fan. I think there are some photos, whatever. He made the move down, of course, a few years ago on a huge contrast, at least seven years. A couple of years ago he renewed to 2033 and that sort of would have rewarded him and put to bed any kind of speculation for that period. But Chelsea clearly want to keep hold of a nucleus of players that they think are going to be key to them. Getting back to where they believe they belong, which is the top honors and regularly. So it's really interesting despite all this upheaval off the pitch and on the pitch to be fair since the ownership change in 2022. You've seen players, staff, executives come and go even owners now with Todd Bowley stepping aside and clearly capital taking full control. I think they've been striving for a bit of stability in at least the footballing area. I mean, even during the international break we saw a sporting director Lawrence Stewart announced that there was an announcement that he'll be departing. But yeah, Cole Palmer follows in the footsteps of Reese James, Moises Kaysado, Jal Pedro, Pedro Neto, in signing new deals. It's only an extension by 12 months. That will undoubtedly reward him financially. He'll get improved terms, I'm sure. It's a really good moment for Chelsea, I think, one to put any of that sort of speculation to bed. Clearly he's happy there or he wouldn't be signing this third deal with Chelsea. He's got his best friend there in Northern Rogers, which will come on to speak about what we're seeing under Javier Lanzo now. I know it's not been a perfect start to the season by any means. but it would appear that they've got a really good thing going on. There's some issues in defense or whatever, but with Colt Palmer sticking around for longer. There is a bit of conjecture over his England career, which is I think a really interesting topic. Is he going to be one of these players that is so mercurial at club level but never quite makes it at international level or fulfills his potential? But yeah, it's a really good piece of news for Chelsea. Maybe when a bit under the radar because all of the Manchester City staff and it was Saturday morning and football was coming back, I mean, he announced it on a live stream, which I feel a bit bad in breaking the story. You got the exclusive. And then he did that. But yeah, happy days in that sense for Chelsea fans. I want to get back to England thing in just a moment. But in terms of on the pitch, when you look at what he's done across these first six games, two goals, three assists in the Premier League, we know he missed so much of last season with that growing problem. Do you feel like he's back to his best now? Yeah, I think there's three things that have changed this season. The first ones are kind of an obvious one because the only thing you're sort of gently throwing out there, tentatively last season, when it comes to sort of him from a confidence point of view, like, oh, maybe, you know, often you see with these players where they have that great exciting first season. And then they've got to kind of reach those expectations and that's difficult. You wondered if that might be getting out in a little bit. But I've always kind of got sort of like a Liam Gallagher vibe from Cole Palmer at times in the sense that he's just not fast with most things, to be honest, apart from enjoying football. And that leads to kind of a clarity on your competence and he's such a good footballer. The first thing, the most obvious thing is him being healthy. I think there's, you can see that. You can see him working on that over the summer. And so that's that's huge because he can do what he wants to freely. The second thing that I think is interesting is, is actually Pedro Netto and the formation that they're playing a little bit because Pedro Netto is kind of playing as a wingback but he's actually often ended up quite, quite high up the pitch. And there's been a lot of talk about Chelsea not having the ball as much as they normally do. It's called four goals against Brighton with 26% possession, something like that. And the reason it kind of works is that they're kind of leaning on that, that front three. And in particular, Cole Palmer within all of that. And on that right hand side, you have Pedro Netto kind of occupying often a left back. And so when Cole Palmer's then in that half space, with space to run into, that left back's got a really difficult decision because Pedro Netto's kind of on his way. And he's thinking, which one do I, you know, do I jump? What do I do? So I think that's creating space for Cole Palmer to get on the ball a lot more. And he's got movement with Michelle Pedro on the other side of him as well. Morgan Rogers come in and get involved as well. So they are like, I guess not the red arrows, but they're like the blue arrows when they're kind of going. The third thing is that he's just getting more touches in the box. I think last season he was often kind of dropping in to try and come and help. Again, back to that sort of point on possession and sort of long balls and things like that, being a bit more direct, you're definitely seeing that a lot more with Chelsea this year. And I was wondering that with the Lanzo, this doesn't feel like a Lanzo. You know, Lanzo is a, he himself is, look, he had a great passing range, but Levi Kuzn, they would keep a hold of the ball. And so with Chelsea, they kind of haven't always been doing that. I think with the performance of the weekend and Henderson and Kaiseido, sort of being back in that midfield, I think that that will help. But there is a detachment between that front three and the rest of the team. So he wants, he wants Kaupama to be higher at the pitch so he can affect the game. So when he's doing that and he's got some bodies around him, goals and assists are going to arrive. The front of the three, it felt like we're always going to, it was always going to work. When you knew that those three were going to be playing together this season, it was like, how could this possibly fail? Yeah, you presume so, didn't you? And I think so, yeah, as a, as a KPR fan, I kind of don't really want Chelsea to do very well. But one thing I'll give them is that there's always bit, there's sort of, there's an arrogance to Chelsea or the best Chelsea players, best Chelsea teams. And in Morgan Rodgers, Shell Pedro and Kaupama, I think you've really, you've really got that. But you've also got three very athletic players, three players that have great confidence in their play, three players that can run in behind Orcum, short, three players who can deal with the physicality of the league as well. So, and Kaupama and Morgan Rodgers in terms of their friendship. Think it on, you see it on the pitch, yeah. And you see that with Morgan Rodgers, he's quite selfless at times. And that creates for Kaupama and Kaupama, I think at times he's going, where's my mate? So that's always, when I watch football sometimes, I kind of get, oh, these two, like each other. There's a lot of that going on. Yeah, it's a good front three. I do just want to ask you something else to do with the contract. Because he is on one of the longest active contracts in the Premier League now. I know that Shell Pedro and also early Harland assigned up until 2034. Tell us some of the benefits of having someone on such a long contract like that. Well, initially Chelsea had embarked upon this slightly unusual wage structure of lower base salary, really long deals to amortize, to spread out the cost over a longer period. And that was seen by people interpreted as being a sort of an accounting trick and to help them comply with the financial rules. And as a result of clubs doing this, the rules were changed. I think the accounting period now can only be over a maximum of five years of a contract. Even though you can have a longer contract, but the amortization period won't be as long. Chelsea have adapted somewhat since then. They always said they would reward key players and crucial performers. And that's what they seem to be doing now. And so, you know, they're bumping up on the incentives, I'm sure. And it's a pretty sensible strategy. It also would appear from what we hear out of Stanford Bridge, that they're maintaining their wage structure, that they're not breaking it. So the likes of James and Kaisado Pedro Netto and Palmer are fitting within it. As part of a big effort that Chelsea are embarking upon to, you know, be in a better financial health than they have been previously. That it's been tricky, certainly in the last few years, and post the Abramovich into Toboli-Clear Lake capital takeover. It provides certainty and security for players. Now, some may see that as locked away for too long. You know, they don't have the flexibility to get out. But I think the understanding was always when Chelsea were embarking upon this, that all parties would know if it was the right time to move. And the longer contract preserves their value, it allows Chelsea to get a better transfer fee, that there are pros and cons to having these long deals. Ultimately, in the case of Cole Palmer, he would appear happy, which people have questioned. And it's a sign of his commitment to this club and this project. Otherwise, he simply wouldn't have done it. I said we touched on Cole Palmer in England. I want to get your thoughts because, of course, over the international break, Thomas Tuchel said, "Cole Palmer misses too many opportunities to play for England." How do you assess this whole situation? Because from one side, there's a real clamor to see him back in England shirt. Yeah, it's awkward, isn't it? I think Thomas Tuchel needs to focus on what he's got. And I think he is in a good position where it's not like it's. I don't want to chuck another country under the bus, but a country that has that. Let's say it was Wales and Garif Bale, or Wales and Ryan Giggs back in the day. He didn't always want to play, but he was always going to play when he wanted to, because he was just too good and there wasn't the same amount of quality around them. With England, that 10 position is difficult. And there's a Cole Palmer missed out due to his form as much as anything. Numbers weren't really there last season. I think we all thought it was probably going to be a blip. And I think we're seeing how good he is. But there's a lot of quality in that group. And I think Tuchel has been really big on the collective. I think he said that when he picked his squad and put Jordan Henderson in that squad, I'm not picking the 26 best players and picking the best team. It's going to be interesting. There are these players that in 10 years' time when there's an international break with not the same amount of stuff to be talking about. This thing of Cole Palmer was robbed. We saw it with Paul Skulls who actually had a good England career for the moments that he had. But it could be one where even Cole Palmer might just be like, "I need this. You don't know what the person truly, truly wants." That's in play for the national team. Yeah, I understand what Tuchel's done there. The one thing I would be wary of, and he's kind of caught, isn't it, because he has to answer these questions, is I'm not sure those kind of statements are going to get the reaction you maybe want from Cole Palmer. I think with Cole Palmer, you'd want to kind of come on, bring him in as opposed to wind him up. Do you know what I mean? There were some comments about Bellingham previously, and we saw how brilliant he has been was in the World Cup as well. But there was a lot of people looking to be in that position. Is there three better than him? You could maybe say Bellingham ahead of him maybe? You want to get him involved, if you can. Especially on the right-hand side as well. One of our editors asked, is this like the modern-day Matt Latissier, the so talented and great player in the class? doesn't go on to fulfill the potential it is international level. I would like to, in the spirit of this optimism, I'm bringing to the pod today, think that there is absolutely a great future for Cole Palmer in England. I remember in one of the early squads, when Thomas Tuchal had his arm round him in training, they were smiling away. It looked like a really warm, positive bond. There's obviously the Chelsea background and Tuchal will appreciate a player of that quality. Of course, you mention public comments and things. We don't know what effect that has had Thomas Tuchal's most recent statements on the matter. But if you think around other national teams, now and historically, I can't think of a player of Cole Palmer's quality that's not utilized. And the purist in you says, you have to make the most of Cole Palmer. There's an international break coming up. Okay, it's been a bit of a rocky period until this point. There's euros on the horizon. Like, Cole Palmer went fit and hungry and that bond with somebody like Morgan Rogers can be the most spectacular asset for England. And Thomas Tuchal's not stupid. The FA will know it as well. I think maybe afterwards gone before, maybe a bit of common sense, maybe a bit of good fortune on fitness and get the guy in there because he can make the difference. He scored for England in the Euro's final against Spain. And he's the sort of player that you could see helping England achieve their goal of getting over the line in a major tournament on the next day. You do expect him to be involved in the November break? Yeah, yeah, I would. I mean, it was his choice to, he was involved in this. He decided to kind of, to not be available. I think also the thing with these, these international breaks is the truth is England will generally qualify for these tournaments. But so those, those international breaks, the first couple when there's a distance from the tournament, I think that's quite a good time to create a message. And so I think he can be a bit more punchy now and let that sort of sit for a bit because he got time to retrieve the situation and kind of show a little bit of strength. So I think there might be a little bit of that in all of it as well. And he's got to say something and he's got to sort of, he has to turn to the people that are there as well. So it's a difficult position for too cool to be in, but I agree with you, the guys clutch, like you've got to try and get them involved if you can. Clutch, just while we're on the topic of England and Chelsea, I want to ask you about Morgan Rogers as well David, because on the athletics Chelsea podcast, straight out of Cobham yesterday, Simon Johnson said Rogers has been the key to reviving Palmer and nobody is mentioning the 117 million pound fee that Chelsea paid for him. This was one of those deals in the summer that felt like it came completely out of nowhere. I mean, how close was he actually to joining Arsenal instead of Chelsea in the summer? And how much do you feel that Arsenal actually missing a player of his quality now? Firstly, Morgan Rogers is a class act. The way he has risen as a footballer and also seemingly as a character makes you full of admiration for him. And he's getting his rewards at club and international level. You suspect there'll be many more to come. The way that he's impacting for Chelsea now, extremely early days, but it's sort of PFA player of the year type material ingredients. I'm not getting ahead of ourselves here, but he's contributing the goals and assists the way he plays and moves. The charisma is outstanding. And I love the bond with Cop Palmer. And I even love the little bit of angst he had with Declan Rice, England teammate in that Arsenal game. And of course, the price tag might precede him for a while. But that's his job to show that it was actually good value for money. And I hear that players speak about him incredibly highly. They think he is the absolute real deal, like a joke. I know you were using the word clutch. That's made an entry into the Tuesday club, but a joke sick or words of that right. I'm going to quit while I'm ahead. So Arsenal were obviously a strong suitor for Morgan Rodgers. They had a firm interest in him. And it was a situation that they worked on. There was clearly some sort of dialogue between Arsenal and Aston Villa. I'm not sure how smooth that dialogue was. And of course, there was a price point. There had been suggestions that the price was lower earlier in the window, or the Arsenal could have got a deal done below where it ended up being. But for whatever reason, they didn't at that point. I think he was their leading option in that position at that moment in time. But there were others, of course. And you saw them consider their long-term interest in Julian Alvarez. There was a move towards Vinicius Jr. if he hadn't renewed with Real Madrid. But I think they had a really high opinion of Morgan Rodgers. Ultimately, when time passed and the price got to a bracket that it ended up at, Arsenal weren't there for that level of finance, Chelsea were. And you saw some other movements go on like Alejandro Garnacho and later there are other deals in the market. There's clearly a bit of trading between Aston Villa and Chelsea. But Chelsea put their money where their mouth was on that. They always had an interest in him. But it seemed Arsenal as champions with Champions League football were in the driving seat if they were prepared to go to that length. Do you think Arsenal think they had time? Just because that the Morgan Rodgers deal went through in the middle of the world cup. Often with these things, there's a lot of flirting that seems to go on or it can be difficult. And you feel like you've got the deadline to kind of work with. Is that what Arsenal felt they maybe had a little bit more time and Chelsea made fast? We'll never know truly unless we were in the inside. And that sounds like me making an excuse or sitting on the fence. It's not meant to be. And from the outside world, it does look like they took a bit too long and Chelsea nipped in. There are reports that Arsenal were still offered the chance to do it ahead of Chelsea closing it out and they decided not to at that price. I think with hindsight, there may be a bit of regret. But that's me speculating. I don't know that for a fact. Emma, your question about could they have done with him in that area of the pitch? I think Morgan Rodgers would be a benefit to any team and definitely to Arsenal. And they've not been at their fluid best so far this season from an attacking point of view. It's still early. There's players like Bacayasaka coming off the world cup. Victor Jocarez hasn't played the role so far that he played last season. Arsenal, the facts are that they are depleted in that attacking part of the pitch. It was only solace that came in. They saw Gabriel J. Zeus, Gabriel Martinelli, Leandro Trossard, Ethan Vanieri departs. So there's a deficiency there in numbers. And so I think Rodgers would have been an absolutely welcome addition. Would he have played him from the left, probably, given if you look at the make-up of Martin Odegaard being fit and available. But yeah, definitely, it would have been an amazing signing for them. And it leaves you wondering what they might do to reinforce subsequently because it feels like a bit of a gamble they've taken going into the season with what they have. And that's what Mikael Artheter and the club will be judged on going forward. And as for Morgan Rodgers, it's history because Arsenal's perceived losses, absolutely Chelsea's game. You said what will they do moving forward? I actually want to bring a listener question in here because this is very relevant to this topic. We'll get onto Ask Ornstein a little bit later. But I mean, I feel you get asked this a lot to be fair. This is from Benjamin M., who says, "What positions are Arsenal targeting in the January and summer transfer windows, and are there any players linked thus far?" And he's also said at the end, "Thanks for the great reporting, too, and a smiley face." You didn't just. Lovely. Inject that in there, because you're being nice to each other today. No, no, thank you, no, thank you. No, great question. Just as we're recovering from one transfer window, we get questions about the next. Yeah, I used to this. Yeah, exactly. I don't know of Arsenal's specific plans for January or the summer, but it probably doesn't take a genius to work out that that attacking department is going to be an area for focus. I would imagine because we just talked about it there. The departures of Trossard, Martin Ellie, Jesus and Wanyeri, even though he's only on loan, and there is a recall option there, leaves them short of numbers and quality. It was so list that came in. He's peaked up an injury on international duty. So they look a bit weaker, and when you saw that they were in the market for Rodgers and Alvarez of Anisius Jr., that left side of attack will be really interesting. Again, not knowledge or information assumption would suggest they'll look to bring a player in there, because they didn't spend what they were ready to in the summer. Even though they're quite close to the line on the financial rules, but they were willing to push the boat out for the likes of Anisius Rodgers Alvarez, you would imagine some powder was kept dry for if and when it's needed. Will they decide that's January? Well, we don't know because the market, injuries, availability, how the competitions are going, perhaps yes, and perhaps no, that we could get to the summer and then which is the preference of most clubs to do this sort of activity then. They're all also be questions on what's happening with Kai Havott's contract, which is drawing towards its conclusion. What's happening with Victor Yokarest, who hasn't been playing as much as you would have expected him to, and he did last season? There are lots of questions, whereas when I look at other departments for Arsenal, they're in pretty good shape. They're all thereabouts. Of course, there will always be natural tweaking, but as an outsider, I can't see anywhere of greater focus for them, whether it be in January or next summer than that attacking department. We said the same though last summer, and they didn't address it, but that, for me, would up the ante on them doing it in the next couple of windows. 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Another story that went under the radar somewhat, because everybody's been focusing on Manchester City, but Everton's ownership is a massive situation. And goodness me, it's not even two years yet, since the Friedkin Group came in. And we're essentially the savior of Everton, because the amount of mess that had evolved under Farhad Machiri, both from a financial perspective, from breach of the financial rules and points penalties that were incurred, changes in the dugout of managers, so much conjecture over player transfers. There was battles against relegation, it was a crisis, and there was a huge tumult over what was going to happen in terms of who ran the club. You remember, Triple Seven and various other parties were flirting with it. It was a bleak period, and the Friedkin Group came in and were really the sort of knights in Shining Armour. They saved the club, they stabilized the finances, they oversaw the move to the Hill Dickinson Stadium, okay, it wasn't their construction, they kind of finished it off. And since moving there, you know, you could say they should have gone into Europe last season and in their first season there. And by the way, massive credit for David Moise writing this out in that period. I don't want to underestimate that at all, but we're just talking about the ownership at this point in time. And things look like they were going in the right direction, finally some hope for Everton fans and optimism about the future. A more stable financial situation, revenues on the rise and they'll continue to be with the new ground. But I think the alarm bells started ringing in the summer because it wasn't a market that it promised to be. You know, they looked at strikers, they didn't manage to bring one in during the main part of the window, they got to the end, suddenly they made that surge for Balagun, it didn't happen, they looked at alternative options like Xerxes and various other candidates and nothing came to fruition. They were ready to sell Harrison Armstrong, which really angered sections of the fan base. It would have been a homegrown talent that holds such promise, leaving for 40 million pounds to seemingly help their financial position in whatever way people have suggested it was after having to pay only 35 million pounds over their legal action. And then came in die leaving and some fill that was under value Jack Greenlich coming in on another loan deal. And it would appear that perhaps the Freed King group were either losing interest or thinking of a departure. And as soon as the market closed, there were reports including on the athletic that they were open to selling a stake in the club. They were willing to take outside investments and then we were of the understanding and broke the news that as part of that a full sale is on the table, that's something that TFG are willing to entertain. And you've seen David Moise's comments that he'd never spoken to Dan Freedkin. You've heard that he has never visited Everton Bean to a match. You've seen that Roma, the other main club in the group TFG in Serie A appear to be the apple of their eye. They've recently been granted permission to construct a new stadium, which is pretty rare in Serie A. And that's going to be a significant undertaking that they're embarking upon a new NHL franchise, an ice hockey team that's going to be worth a think about 3.5 billion US dollars in Texas. Although we're assured the financing was already in place for that and didn't have an effect on the decision around Everton. But perhaps it came to a natural end for them if it does, because they only want to sell to the right buyer. They want it to be a custodian that can take the club to the next level. And in the meantime, they remain fully committed, nothing changes. They'll be ready to invest in the January transfer market. They say, if that be a striker, which I could see coming in. And so they're not pulling the plug, but they are ready to go. And it would appear to be in their minds the end of this sequence. And that will fill Everton fans with a bit of anger, a bit of concern, a bit of here we go again, like I can't believe we're back in this position just when we thought there was a bright horizon. But also some optimism, because if the Freedkins don't feel it's right for them to continue, and they're going to find somebody that really wants to take the club on and jet-propell it with this infrastructure of a new stadium with improving revenues with a good training ground, there is a fantastic opportunity there at Everton. I'd be pretty excited if I was Everton, an Everton supporter. But of course, it's also one that fills them with anxiety, because they're back in a period of uncertainty. And I think it's a really significant story. Yeah, I think all the Everton fans I've spoken to just feel let down around the whole situation. In terms of on the pitch then, because David has talked about the chaotic summer transfer window, yet to lose a game. And I mean, the Premier League table popped up, yeah, last night on Monday night football after the Coventry win. And I was like, wait, Everton, a fifth? Yes. What's going so right on the pitch for them? Well, and I think I'll just add to that, because I know every Everton fan will want me to add this. Four places above Liverpool, right? Yes. And one point above them, but still, yet look, I think you cannot, there's also a bit of fortune here, I think, a freaking group in the sense of having David Moy is there that you literally don't even have to pick up the phone to this guy and he provides stability for for that group and yeah they're on for an invincible season at the moment and yeah I think it's a fascinating time for them because I would be I wouldn't totally and if I was an ever to fan I wouldn't trust them either but like bads from Toffy TV I asked him about this and he was kind of saying that look there is definitely some trust issues in the sense of what's happened before with with owners I think the thing that should allow you as an ever to feel a little bit safer is the fact that it's almost like you know you're trying to sell your house and you paint all the walls white so it looks a bit it all looks a bit better and it does you've got a great stadium here you've got a team that's fifth in the league doesn't lost a game you've got a manager that's providing that stability so the really I agree with you there's such an opportunity there that will allow for it should attract owners or people want to be the owners that want to go up to that to that next level I think the fear would be is that if you're bringing someone in who doesn't truly understand that because because if you if you aren't switched on to that they could they could lose their way pretty quickly and also with PSR and and all those elements to it I think a lot of everton fans feel like there is a real sort of glass ceiling there in terms of allowing your club to and especially a club with the history of everton to start to be in those proper conversations everton fans believe that they should be in this big six they should be competing for all these things and I get it but you need to get the right owner in so there's certainly some nerves around that side of it but the ground and the foundations are there for them and the teams doing well as well which will help I've assumed bringing buyers also worth adding that David Moise is into the last 12 months of his contract so whether it be the Freed King group who deal with that or potentially a new owner that's a massive decision for both the club and for for David Moise himself and there's one other element to this Roma who we talked about before they're competing in the Champions League at the moment everton they'd like to think can be a European competitor this season for qualification and that presents a problem as we've seen with with clubs like Crystal Palace in the not too distant past so I think March time is the cut off if you've got these competing interests in a in a multi club group one has to be placed in a blind trust you would imagine in this case that would be everton so if that's a consideration which logic would suggest it is you could see a sale happening sooner rather than later you know before that that period now you can't force the market you know this talk of evaluation of sort of 800 million pounds maybe a bit more which would be roughly double what the Freed King group paid for it in the first place and you know this is a market where some say there are buyers everywhere and others say you know it's it's easier said than done but that sort of clear issue on the horizon would suggest you know the banks appointed and the parties involved will be working to try and find a solution to this in the not too distant future. 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apply for rewards this episode is sponsored by zock doc have you been putting off a doctor's appointment or needed Dennis and you don't know where to start we've definitely been there and that's why we use zock doc actually over the holidays Michael had a dental emergency and seemingly every office was closed but we hopped on to zock doc found an in network dentist had great reviews so real time appointments available which was key it was on new year's day and booked an appointment in just minutes it took so much of the stress out of the already stressful situation zock doc me see easy to search and compare over 250,000 local in network providers across more than 200 specialties so you can find the right doctor or Dennis and book instantly taking care of your health just got easier download the zock doc app today and book that appointment on your to do us that's zoc doc zock doc right we've got a little bit of time left for ask on steam yeah this is the best bit we asked our subscribers on the athletic to send in your questions for David so we've got a couple of them for you this is from tallal a who said hi David how secure is carrots job at the moment do you think defeats against athletic on leads could be enough to get him sacked or is that unlikely and who could be the potential replacement if that does happen who will be on the spot here can't wait to see this spread all over the internet unfairly Manchester United is a club at which everybody lives under pressure constantly from ownership executives managers staff players and so on that's testament to the expectations and so Michael Carrick knows that bed and anybody he was a player successful one he's done well as a coach so far got the job on a permanent basis but he will be well aware what comes with that territory and it's a results business as several predecessors have found before him however good the intentions are of Manchester United as a hierarchy and good will as a fan base he'll be judged on how he does and ultimately those that have gone before him have paid the price when they've gone on a poor sequence so he needs to improve things it's just logic to say that and I would add I don't know of any desire to get rid of Michael Carrick I think to the country they are right behind him and want him to succeed but you're right behind somebody at any club until you're not and there will be concern the results certainly the performances what we saw against Tottenham wouldn't have been deemed acceptable by Michael Carrick let alone the powers that be and the support really unhappy we heard it we've seen it we've read about it I know a lot of United fans and I've detected it too there will also be questions of you know the people around the structure at United because there's recruitment there's executives there's owners and so we've taught many times and repeated this phrase at Man United another club's about a fish rotting from the hedge you know the glazes remain in charge of Manchester United even though everybody is pointing the finger at Sir Jim Ratcliffe who is rightly in the spotlight too and so on from Chief Executive Sporting Director and thereafter people need to take accountability rather than just look at the head coach or manager and and players will have to as well but we've been in this position so many times before and the one who pays the prices the manager and so you know if there's a downturn or continued struggles no doubt Man United will become a big story again but we speak on the afternoon of a Champions League game where Man United will hope to improve a massive game at the weekend where Carrick will hope to deliver and I do think the goodwill gives him time and faith but at a club of this stature if you don't deliver you'll pay the price with your sort of tactical head on what what is the if you're saying the single biggest issue for Man United right now on the pitch what would it be I think not having an out and out striker is is an issue is Benjamin Seshko the guy that's going to take them to the top I don't know about that, but I think there's an issue there where are you affecting centrebacks enough? And I thought Umbermo did, did enough to a point up top, but he's, you know, he's a right winger playing as a, as a sort of central striker there. And he has a little bit more physicality. We saw with the goal that he's, he's great in the box. He's sort of really learned how to finish pretty brilliantly. But you then lose him from, from the right wing. Um, I think midfield needs resolving as well, for sure. -Belayver not been starting, has he? Well, I'll be starting and so I think that will come. Um, but I do think the, the striker position would help, because I think if you've got someone pinning them back, then Umbermo can actually be a little bit better. It probably frees up Bruno Fernandez a little bit as well. So for me, I don't think anything really changes by getting rid of Carrick. And I think I'd like to see him with that, that squad there in its entirety before you, you just repeat the cycle. I mean, how do you feel about it? -No, I agree. Well, it's just, it's just, we're here we are again, isn't it? That's it. And I don't really, unless you've got a manager that go, you're like, like Jabi Alonso, we go, this disguise next level, then I don't, I personally don't see this. Well, because that's the other part of that question, potential replacement. It's like, well, who are, we were talking about Antonio Conte on this podcast last week, because James went and spoke to him and had a really long sit down with him, who, you know, he's clearly on the market to get himself in another managerial position. I don't think that would appeal to, to many Manchester United fans out there. Eddie Howe is another name that has been thrown around because he's a manager out of a job at the moment. -Yeah, I was skillfully trying to avoid the. -I know you were, and I was like, "I'm coming for me in the back." -Replacement. -I think it's important for me to add that I don't know of any movements to get rid of Carrick by Manchester United at this point in time. What I explained before was more just common sense. And it doesn't take a rocket scientist to work out that repeatedly changing the manager or head coach without a particular change in results and consequences would point to issues being elsewhere. Whether it be recruitment, which happens to think has improved somewhat at Manchester United, even though it's not a fine science and we can pick apart individual transfers. But we've got to look at some more fundamental issues of what is going wrong at that club, at whatever area, and that goes right up to the ownership rather than just bringing it back to the manager every single time, rinse and repeat, and things don't change. And that is a much broader conversation. And personally, the feeling I get from people I speak to in the game, once Michael Carrick to succeed, he's an English coach, he's clearly got vast qualities. He earned the job, whatever some people think and somebody like Roy Kean was quite outspoken at the time. He didn't think that he should or was sufficiently qualified. I did think he earned it and he showed what was needed. And Manchester United did conduct a process and the market options available at that moment and how Carrick had done. And you can scrutinize that process all you like. But I'd really like, and I think many people who like English coaches and want them to do well, would like to see him as James as there with a full complement available to him, Benjamin Chesco, and so on and so forth. Where would they go next if they did make a change? It seems like they've tried everything already and it hasn't sort of got them to where they've wanted to be since Sir Alex Ferguson. At this point in time, having gone for a relatively young, relatively inexperienced coach, you would imagine they'd go for somebody with more experience. Overcorrecting again. And that's why somebody like Conte being on the market has led to some speculation. We know that they liked Thomas Tuckle in the past. He got close to the job before Erick Tenhard got a new contract. They then, it was suggested, would have been very keen on him when they were deciding whether to give Michael Carrick the job on a permanent basis. England renewed his contract, maybe by no coincidence. And I think if he had been available last summer, Manchester United could well have gone for him. It looks like he settled at England for now. So it brings you around to somebody like Eddie Howe, who's available and is vastly experienced in the Premier League. But I think Eddie Howe being recommended by Dan Ashworth was one of the points of conjecture in Dan Ashworth's departure and how Sir Jim Ratcliffe felt about that. So there would have to be some introspection around that. And of course, there are lots of good coaches up and coming or established within World Football. Some available and some not. It would be remiss of Manchester United and any club not to be forward planning on potential contingency options if and when a change needs to be made. So that due diligence, you imagine, is always taking place. But they will hope not to open that file just yet and that Carrick will get this moving in the right direction. Another one that we've had in from Declan O who says, "Hi David, with the charges already brought against Manchester City up to and including the 2017-18 season, is there an appetite from the Premier League to start a new investigation into the year since or is this too early to expect?" Oh Declan, finish on a high. All sweetness and light. It's a fair question that many are asking and I think I'd refer Declan to the 40-page summary which touches upon this. I think the Premier League reserved the rights initially to bring charges post-2018 and in the course of the hearing, the case, they decided against it, they opted not to. So as far as we know, there will be nothing beyond 2018 in connection to this specific situation, whether something is opened in the future and none of us have any idea. But the Premier League so far have decided against that so that won't be happening. People are saying, "Why is it only 2009-2018?" Just to spell it out, that was the period of accused wrongdoing in the Rui Pinto hack leak, the deshbygal publications, whatever other documentation that the Premier League were presented with and the Independent Commission held their hearing over. It was alleged at that point wrongdoing between 2009 and 2018. The investigations, UEFA and then Premier League started in 2019. So that's a clear cutoff. That's just to explain why that period was under investigation. So when people say, "What could happen to their titles post-2018 to now?" As far as we know at this moment, nothing because that period is not under investigation and the Premier League has declined to take it further, despite initially reserving their rights to do so. Okay, we actually are going to end on a high. And with a question from Nick H. who says, "What's the biggest animal you could throw over a crossbar?" Finally. You're finally, and no animals were harmed in the making of this. We'll put a crash map on the other side. This is purely hypothetical situation. When this was mooted by our producer, I don't know what he said. It was a chance that we made it. Johnny Mr. didn't even know that this was coming, as I had ninkling, but I've been so busy that I've not had a chance to think about it. So I'm going to let our esteemed guest go. So bearing in mind, you're not far away from the goal. Are they going to stay still? The animals stay still. Just imagine the animals far and you just scoot them up. So I'm a bit funny with animals, are we on it? All right, okay. I'm looking for size, but if you're trying to get the size, but you kind of want them lean, because I went to a pig, and then I thought pig might be sort of. That's really hard to think about. It's a bad idea. Yeah, it's a bad idea. They have it, and you think these things. So our producer Mike said a goat, and now this, this is really there. I don't think you know what I'm saying. I thought he was. I thought he was. I thought he was a big tummy sometimes. I think that would be tough. Yeah. And also, like, there's like horns and hooves that could inhibit your throwering action. I'm just lifting, imagining things in my ear. What about a. I've got a good sized calm shark. That's a great shark, because they're all a thing of a shark. It might be a bit of a flipage there for the aerodynamics that I need to get another question. Yeah, I see what you mean. A hyena. Yeah, I think you could throw a hyena, because it's like a dog, really. I'll do shark, then. Okay, you can have a shark. And you can't take somebody else's recommendation. No, I quite like the fish idea. Yeah. The streamlined, just. That's the biggest. You could flick that over. The medium-sized fish. Right, okay. Anyway, we need to end the podcast. No, you think. By the way, you're not going to be here next week. You're going to go on holiday, fine? Yes. Which I don't know if that's allowed. Is that possible? If there's breaking news. Always, just take your phone with you, as long as there's signal and a power pack. Okay. And airpods, then it's mobile working. Okay, well, make sure you enjoy it as well. Yeah, well, I might dial into the pod to talk about our next question. Just on the beach. We'd love that while you're on safari. Yeah, thank you for joining us. On safari. Yeah, on holiday, mate. Go on holiday. You deserve a holiday. If you are on safari, have a little look at the animals. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was a tear list. Look at the animal. I don't think it's advisable to try and pick one up and throw one over like a jeep. But no, I'll analyze the surrounds. - Yeah, okay. Thank you for coming on. - Pleasure. - It's lovely having you company. I'll be back with you tomorrow. I'll catch you then. (upbeat music) - With a Discover Cashback card, it's payback time when you earn cashback on everyday purchases. 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