But he said one thing that floored me, man to the pits of my stomach. He said, "But I remember your glove on a shiny floor." I answered all of his questions. It was very difficult because I had like a lot closer reaction or proximity. The world was on the right side of our vehicle to these to these beings on the right side of the vehicle. I mean, not literally. It wasn't a heartbeat, but um okay, so he was in control. So how tall was the tall one? When I realized what I was looking at, it's when I really just went. Some of those visions are almost indescribable. And when you realized, was that realization, oh my god, aliens? Yeah. What happened that night in November 5th was up close and absolute personal. And uh, no matter whether they ever hear me or not, I live with that. Whenever I was 13, I woke up in my bedroom because my light turned on. And uh, it just clicked right on. I was the only one in the house because my mom was in bedroom down the hall. And she was asleep, positive, I could hear her snoring. And then after my light turned on, my door started opening by itself. I thought, but actually then I saw a hand on the door. It had, you know, long fingers, very thin hand. And I thought it was having a nightmare, but then I was, you know, like, pinching myself and you know, slapping myself. And I realized I am not asleep. And then I saw how thin its arm was and like I freaked out. I was like shocked. I was very scared. Um, I was on my food time. I tried to stand up. It was really hard to do. But whenever I stood up, like, I felt like I was pushing against like a force that was trying to like hold me down. And then whenever I saw its face and its body, it was about my height. And I was about five foot nine. It was skinny gray, you know, big head, almond eyes, slip mouth, two little holes on the nose. And yeah, it started coming toward me. And I remember thinking I'm going to hit him right in the head. And as soon as I started thinking that I heard in my head, no, you won't. And it started walking toward me very slowly. And then closer it got the more I couldn't like move, I actually had a fist. And I was pulling it up and there trying to come at him. And then I thought I'm going to hit him. And then I'm going to elbow him. And these said, no, you're not. And it got really close. And it tapped me on the forehead very slowly. And as soon as he did, I felt electrocuted, like vibrating like crazy. And then everything went black. This is such a great set to trip, right? Yeah, it is. What's it? When you got here, I'm sorry, I'm going to shut my phone off here. Yeah, I'm in there. With me with me. No more disturbances. It'll have to wait. If the world burns, it'll use after burn. Let it burn. Do you do it a lot? Sometimes. Yeah, it's more like my own figurines and stuff, you know, just something I do. Did you do that before? Yeah. I mean, before it happened. Yeah, before '70, was '77. Yeah, I really didn't. Sometimes I'll just do a whole page. Really? Yeah, I'll just do a whole page. And it doesn't really make any sense to anybody. It doesn't even make sense to me. I just have to put these designs in, you know, and just cathartic. Yeah, just following stuff. You can be a second. I forgot my notes. I'm going to grab those. Oh, okay. Find myself doodling sometimes as well. Oh, yeah. Got to you, man. Got to. It's fun. There's a tactile sort of compulsion sometimes that you got to just, I do it while I'm editing and I'm waiting for something to render. I'll just mindlessly doodle. All right, you ready to get started? Yeah, I guess when I think about it, I don't do as well as I do, but I don't think about it. So I'll just leave that away. Right. You leave wherever you want. You doodle. We can spend this whole time doodling. Whoa. Ladies and gentlemen, today I'm joined by former USAF security responder. Your position exactly was a security was police, right? Security police security police. Folks, this is Mario Woods. Now he's been featured on multiple podcasts. The story's been talked about. It's an incredible, incredible story about not only his encounter one of the most incredible encounters I've ever come across on that Ellsworth Air Force Base in 1977. Correct. And it's, I mean, for so many reasons, Mario, you're just, you're a wealth of knowledge. You're someone with the sharpest memory and recall that I've ever spoken to. We spent some time at dinner last night. Yeah. And you're rattling off dates and numbers. Like, I have, I've got a notepad here just to make sure that I say the right thing, but your memory is incredible. And we're going to get into that because there's also a whole sort of rigorous discipline around someone working around these sensitive nuclear sites that you have to abide by the personal reliability program or PRP, which is a whole thing that folks like yourself have to subject themselves to in order to be mentally stable enough to work around these things, which makes you, sir, in my opinion, one of the most credible witnesses to the UFO contact phenomenon that I've ever had the honor of speaking to. So thank you for joining me today. Thank you. It's an absolute honor to be here. I love your set. I just can't believe the work you've done. And it all means such good things, you know, really, we need to know. And we need to set up for these things just like what you've done. I just, it's incredible just to see what you've done here. Well, I appreciate it and having me. Thank you. Marry, am I pulling your chair in just a little bit? Just want to get close to the microphone. You got such a lovely voice. Don't be shy. You got to, if all else fails, you got a disc jockey somewhere within you in a previous life, I think, or something. You got a really good voice for, uh, for radio, unlike myself. I've got a face for radio. But you've got to, yeah, well, it comes naturally to you, sir. So I do want to get into obviously what happened alongside, is it Michael Johnson? Correct. On that event, that faithful night in November, November 18th, 1977. But prior to that, I want to take you back to your childhood. And I want to start there. I want to see if there's anything to glean from, you know, your childhood. Do you remember having vivid encounters or strange dreams or just occurrences, not only with you, but with your direct family members as a child? What's something that stands out? 1961. My mother was taking me to school at D Queen Elementary in Port Arthur, Texas. And my sister is in the back seat. She was four. I was six. I think just turn six. I think as a school, your starts, you know, like in August, I turned six in September. And anyway, as we approach the school on D Queen Boulevard, which is still there today, I've been back and looked at it and just sat there and all from what I saw that morning. And we were about the fifth car back in line. And as to the drop off point, you know, I'm just a young kid not thinking anything, just doing my thing going to first grade. And all of a sudden, my mother in the driver's seat, of course, she goes, look, Anthony, there's flying saucers. Just as we were talking, just plain as day. And I went, where? I remember saying that we're in a lean forward and I grabbed the dashboard because back then, you know, we didn't have seat belts like there are today. And we were now, I think we're in a palestation wagon. Oh, plenty of playing room back there. Yeah. My sister's in the back seat and behind my mom. And she said, right there, look, she looked pointed to her left. So I leaned over to her where she was. And as I did, I could see three craft. And they were only maybe 50 feet, 75 max in the air. And they were directly over this church that is now gone. And it had three steeples over, you know, below these craft. And they were the most beautiful white silver saucers with a dome on top and a dome on bottom and a light going around the center out of most rim of it. And glass down? No, no, no, same color white silver. Okay. As the rest of the craft, the only color difference was were these lights that went around them. And they were all in, they were synchronous on all three
craft. And I was just like, wow, I mean, I don't even have words for what we were seeing basically. And my mom, she popped the door open. And when she did, I went behind her and my sister, she did say in the back seat, she goes, mom, I'm scared. My mother said, quote, she goes, don't worry, honey, they're not here to hurt you. Well, plain as bay. I'll never forget that statement. My mother's been passed many years and never forgotten that. And so when she got out, I just went across the seat right behind her and grabbed her by the hand. And my sister opened her, she opened my sister's door and she got out and she grabbed my mom by the hand. But we were just one of many because everybody would exiting their vehicles. They were all in line. And I don't know exactly how many cars there were. I just do know that we were about fourth or fifth back in the line because I did, I could count them. And additionally, the school was one of those buildings that was a single school from elementary or kindergarten all the way up to 12th grade. So the upper classmen, of course, their school, their classes were upper level. But as I looked on the playground, which was, which was blocked off, it was a hope playground directly across from dequeue and elementary. We still there. They had monkey bars and all that kind of stuff. But everybody met there in the morning. It was just full of kids. And every eye, in every hand, in every finger was pointing up or looking at these things. And from where I was, this was probably a hundred yards away from seat, from where they were located. And the school was probably 70 yards. So that difference, you know, I'm just trying to equate the distance because I have gone back and looked at it and tried to stand right where our car was. I tried to really put, because those houses are all still there. The sidewalks are all still there. Everything is still there. So there were people pointing out the windows because there was no AC back that time. And the windows are open and wooden frame windows. And people were pointing out of them. And we just stood there staring at them, you know, 45 seconds, a minute, minute and a half. And then all of a sudden, they just boom straight up out of sight, clear blue sky. If there had been clouds that had punched holes in them because they were just gone. And they were gone under a second. They didn't disappear. They moved straight up instantly, instantly. How fast would you? How fast was the fastest thing we had they could leave the atmosphere today? Or, you know, say our best rocket, it takes what a minute or something two minutes. He sure was gone in seconds. They were literally out of our atmosphere in a second. If that they were so fast, it was incredible. And there was nothing is I know aeronautics. Now there was nothing like a wind blast. No, what rotor wash or anything like that. It was just and just gone instantaneous. Just like Lou says. Do you remember a reaction to that? My reaction? Or like a general install like holy smoke, you know, as a kid. Do you hear people saying, well, my God. And like these type of things, my mother did. But the strangest thing about that whole incident and all those people that saw it in school, nobody said a word the entire day about the whole thing. Any teachers? Nobody said a word about it. This went on like nothing happened. It was like it was forgotten about. Why do you think that is? I have no idea. Do you think it was the technology or the being somehow or was it just the time and the taboo? Because you hear that a lot with people that are just like, yeah, we didn't talk about it. It's just, you know, one brought up. It may be something that they can do over a broad area below them. People that are seeing them or something. And whatever, what that's for, I have no idea why they would do that. But it didn't cause the calamity. People didn't run for their cars and, you know, let's go get, you know, whatever, and hauling. Nobody left. Everybody just went back to what they were doing. And kids went back to playing on the playground. I went up, my mother, I got back in the car, you know, my sister did and we pulled up and she let me out and she went on, you know, have a good day. And I went into the school and, you know, and nobody said anything about it the whole day. And I've been back to Porter Arthur in the museum. There's a museum there. It's right now in the next to the port. I was working for a shipping company out of Norway then. So that's how I ended up going back there several times. And Janice Joplin, she was a renowned artist there. It was from that area. I'm familiar with Janice Joplin. And her Volkswagen's in there are her pores. Really are carming gear. I think is what it is. Since I that museum. But I went through all these archives and all these newspaper clippings and all this back to that time in 1961. I couldn't find anything. And I have research and search. I've sent out certain messages to people, you know, that are that look for things like Michael Johnson. You know, I've got friends that are helping me search for him to do. I've probably years. But it was nothing written that I've ever found. Do you remember the month? Well, yeah, I'm pretty certain that it was like a right after school start like in August. Okay. September, August, September around there. August and September. All the action for the audience listening, Port Arthur 1961, August, September, do your thing internet, you know, we can collectively find something out here. It's got to be written about because that wasn't the only time that things were seen there. I've been told. Usually there's always. Yeah. We had pressed and den it here not too long ago. He's a researcher as well, lovely man. And he sent out a challenge to his audience. And he goes, I challenge you to name me the smallest town that you can find on the map of the United States. And I will find a sighting there. And he did. He's like batting a hundred on the tiniest towns. Yeah. So he's surprised. So about your mother, that comment, I mean, you're not here to hurt you. In retrospect, what do you make of that? Well, she was from Rocky Mountain, North Carolina. And her and her sister Esther, who's now passed, when they were little girls, they saw, you know, they were always in the woods. I mean, you know, they had five sisters and four brothers in the same family. So they were always out in the fields. It's not like today's teenagers and kids, you know, bed-seeing things at night on the front porch of their house and questioning them. And then she said, you know, these weren't they weren't aircraft. They weren't airplanes, but they would just be there and then and just vanish literally just, just take up so fast it is indescribable. When your mother was a child, when my mother was a child, pre 1940, pre 1930. So we're not talking satellites there. Yeah. Right. So it's sponsored by Hexclad. Out here at the flying saucer diner, we believe in three things, hot coffee, unexplained lights over the ridge, and not losing half your dinner through the grill grids. You see, I love grilling in the summer, but once you go beyond burgers and steaks, it gets chaotic pretty fast. Fish starts falling apart. Veggies disappear and clean up to turn into a full-scale investigation. That's why I've been using Hexclad's barbecue collection. Their barbecue grill pan brings their stainless steel searing power, cast iron durability, and non-stick convenience to the grill. The perforated design lets heat and smoke come through, so veggies, seafood, fish, and kebabs still get that real smoky flavor without falling into the fire. It's dishwasher safe, easy to wipe clean, heat safe up to 900 degrees, and the terabond ceramic non-stick coating is free from forever chemicals. So if you're planning on spending time behind the grill this summer, don't make it harder than it needs to be. Stop losing food through the grates. Stop fighting clean up. An upgrade your backyard cooking setup with Hexclad's barbecue collection. For a limited time only, and for our listeners, you can get 10% off your order with our exclusive link, just head to Hexclad.com/area52. Support our show and check them out at H-E-X-C-L-A-D dot com forward slash area 52. Make sure to let them know that we sent you. And even when I remember you just triggered a memory there, when Sputnik was launched, when Russia launched Sputnik, we were out in our front yard and on Janelle Street in Tampa, Florida, five on nine Janelle plays. Never forget it. Love that house. And we saw Sputnik going over, and then I think W-T-V-T channel 13, they said that you could see the satellite pass overhead, if you know, it was like nine or 10 o'clock at night or something so let us stay up. We could go outside and see it. And my dad was there, and which he was emerging to see, and he was usually a C, but he's hadn't been home this time. And we stood out on the front porch, you know, there's no ambient light back then. I think there was a street light at the way into the corner, that kind of thing, and that was it. My mom said, something to the effect she goes, she sees it, she goes, well, she goes, that thing, it'll take a long time for that to come back around. She goes, that's so slow compared to other things that we've seen in the sky at night. She said that? Yeah. Okay. So they're clearly, sorry, there's clearly a history with your mother. It blew, it blew my dad's, it was even different, but because he was from Banaka, Honduras, and being at sea. Yeah, he's been going to sea since he was freaking 12 years old or something, you know, I mean, one of those places where if you see anything, you know, it's not us, right? Like when you're in the middle of the ocean or whatever, yeah, there's nothing flying hover in the middle of the ocean. You need a battery. You know, you're not getting anywhere or entering the ocean or coming out of the ocean. That's right.
out of the atmosphere, yeah. And he was never alone anytime he ever told me about those things. And you know, honestly, I really, in my early teenage years, I've never really paid much attention to him, you know, talking about some of the things they would see under sea and that kind of thing under the water, you know, while he's on a trip, because one time he's gone like a, he was going a year, really 13 months. And he would, you know, he would tell me about all these things that, you know, they'd see in sky or, you know, under the water, these, you know, great points of light he called him. He didn't say what they were. He'd never said there was an object or a craft viny shape or design. He said, but there are things that we don't know about. And they've always been here. And that's, that was his wording exactly. And he, he died real young, but wow. Yeah. And then when he was going up, I said, boy, he told me that him and his brothers and his cousins were playing literally in the jungle and just my and Ruins everywhere is, you know, just not one of the particular areas. Yeah. And in this part of Banaka Honduras. There's so many, I don't even think it's called Banaka anymore. I don't know if it's a roller tan or I'm really not sure. I've never been there. So, he said, but they were all playing out in the jungle. You know, we say the woods, they say the jungle, because it really is a jungle down there. And they saw this tall red-headed guy with long red hair, super white skin. And he wasn't walking. He was floating through through the jungle, through the jungle. And they all hid behind these, these items to watch him. And he stopped and he turned around and looked back toward them. And then they freaked out and took off running. They weren't maybe 30 feet from him or something. But he made no noise. And he had on robes. He didn't have on, making clothes. He had on roads. And I just took that and threw it. I just looked at my dad and I said, okay, yeah, what are you going to do with that? Nothing. Nothing. I wish I'd have paid more attention to him, you know, really. It's probably probably a reason, though, you know. You ignored that stuff so much until you couldn't ignore it. You know, now looking back on it, you might you might kick yourself and say, oh, I should have listened. But at the same time, you don't have a history with this stuff. And that's what makes it so fascinating that you had these sightings. It's not like you were chasing UFOs when this happened to you. But UFOs seem to be chasing you. Yeah, I don't know. I do know that when I went to the missile field, I first of all, when I first got my assignment at a lack of Air Force Base, after basic training and Air Base ground offense and all the other things that we go through, when I when I saw South Dakota, I thought, where and is Elbert Air Force Base? So, you know, it was a rapid city and then you know, I kind of put the two together and looked on the map and new Mount Rushmore was there. So, I'd have to see that. But my first week and a half in the missile field out there, when I saw those stars at night out in the middle of those prairies, because this is all Buffalo running territory, you know, and there's no ambient light. There's no towns. There's nothing. There were things to there were things that you could see moving in the sky. And I don't know what they, I don't know the recitalites or what they were, but I just had a strange feeling back then, before any of this ever happened, you know, what happened in November 5. I just knew something. There was a correlation between nuclear rockets and in these visitors. I just knew there was there's a connection between them. I don't know what they're, I don't know why they're looking at this stuff and in these sites, but it's, it's all mouse drum. My not. Ellsworth, which is, you know, was decommissioned, I think in, I think in 91 when the missile field was decommissioned, but the aircraft, the aircraft, aircraft side of it's still active, of course. And I did mention my not. So, those are the three, you know, ICBM sites that are still active today. And I just never, I never could understand why they did away with Ellsworth, which kind of bothered me a little bit. Might have been, that might have been, I don't know, precursor that it was, it was more than just my siding there that did occur. And I think the bad part about, about it is, it was before a time the Air Force or really the Army or the Navy, the Coast Guard, anybody really had a good handle on what was going on. Because these things are being seen and have been seen. And, you know, since before Robert's Alice's time, I mean, really an over-loss alamos or Sandia. And then I've been to both of those facilities Oak Ridge, Y-12, K-25, Pantacks. I mean, there's just as a security police officer. Yeah. Well, in the security inspector capacity with Department of Energy, but as a security policeman in the Air Force, yes. You were stationed at those or were you just, just Air Force bases. I'm just saying it overall in general. But you've been to all these places. You've been to, you even told me yesterday at dinner, you were likely in Los Alamos the same time Bob was our ones. I have a strange feeling now. I was at the Sierra 450 area. And there was a scientist there that they kind of put me with. I wouldn't know if you call it a bodyguard or something like that, but I was assigned to him. And his last name was Bishop. And I was in a control room when an element was, or a test burst was being conducted. And of course, we had to, you know, we had to set up a two-mile entry control area. Two miles. Yeah, two miles away. I mean, for radiation purposes and that type of thing. Yeah. Okay. I mean, these areas are that vast. And, you know, I thought I was really cool because besides being in that control room, similar to this right here when that happened. But being out in the 450 area, again, it's so vast. I found pieces of pottery, beautiful pieces of Indian pottery. And, you know, under the caves that the Indians could dig into the, into the rock face. I mean, with a spoon, you could dig a condominium as big as you, in as vast as you wanted. And they did that. So I was picking up all those pottery and then come to find out, you know, because we have Geiger counters on our vehicles. And it was all radioactive. So I had to get rid of, I mean, a sack of this stuff. I thought, I'll bring this home. So this off, you know, and so on. So anyway, wow. So you've, yeah, you've clearly frequented a lot of the most secretive, I mean, highly secure, secureized sort of compartmentalized facilities in the United States. Like that was your job. Yeah, I had a great time to do that. You were armed as well. Oh, absolutely. What do they give you? We carry different weapons for different areas, you know, like in an inside of a laboratory area, you wouldn't want to carry an M16 or an M4 or an MP5 silence, but, you know, because there's things that if you did engage an adversary, you don't want to alert everyone. Well, no, no, no, you don't want ricochets bouncing all over the place and you don't want particular. A lot of, you know, in a place like that, it would be a shotgun would be better. You know, if you had to engage. Close range. Yeah. If you had to engage, you don't really want to fire a weapon like that. Do you ever have to engage? No. No. Thank goodness. Yeah, thank goodness. Absolutely. Happy. You were ready. You had the training. Yeah. How many times a year would you train? Well, you qualify twice a year, twice a year, every six months. And then, of course, they do give you rounds to go out and shoot on your own. I mean, which is substantial. And really, guys that didn't want to do it, they'd give you theirs. So you'd be out there to five or six thousand around capacity. Oh, my God, to just melt some barrels down. Yeah. It's really good. I think bubbles are, he likes automatic weapons, I think I think he does. He likes anything that goes boom. Yeah, I don't all I do is I just target practice. You go to the rain still. Yeah, I do a lot of tactical stuff still. What's your favorite gun? In four that I built in a wheel gun of 586 myth and wasn't. Whoa. Yeah, back from 83. Wow. What kind of rounds does have? 357 magnum. Okay. Big rounds. You can shoot 38 to it also. Okay. Which is cheaper than 357 magnums. Right. Yeah. And of course, 556, you know, I'm in four and I have some specialty shot guns also, semi well that are really like to shoot, but it's very difficult to find a range that you can go and utilize the shotgun on. I see. Because it tears down all the structure and everything. And indoor ranges, they just get really upset. The spread. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you can control it, but they don't want to listen. Not everybody's disciplined with a firearm. They just want to hear a big bang and see what they can tear up. Yeah. Unfortunately. Yeah, I've only been to a few myself in my lifetime because, you know, obviously in Canada, we got a lot of restrictions on these things. And I don't own any guns myself, but I've I've had some friends down in Texas. And they were like, you got it. We got to get this Canadian, you know, to shoot some guns. And I was like, all right. And they started me off with a 50 cow. No way. My soul left my body when I shot that thing. It was stunning. And felt incredibly terrifying. And and the target they put they put a tannerite on the was it? Is that was that was called a ride on the target without telling me. And so I'm shooting this thing and this thing's exploding. And I'm, yeah, there's a big prank on me. But you ever come down Southeast Georgia way else? You do an indoor range. And you can we will do you right? You have your protection. I protection. You won't be overpowered by a phone. Okay. All right. I'll take you up on it. All right. So take us into was it the night before? Or was it the same? Was it because you had a shift to the night before November 18th? No, I
just came to the field that day. You just came to the field that day. Okay. And we worked 12 hour, 12 hour shifts. Yeah. And our relief usually takes place to two flights. You do six to six. That's correct. Yeah. Yeah. Two flights of security police officers, which would be 12, total six at each. We are six on each shift. We do two flights at a time coming out on a bus or by helicopter, depending upon the weather, bus is most of the times blue, blue bird buses out way over 10 at windows. And perform our relief and then that shift getting off. They head out on the bus and we take over, of course. So it's, you know, there's continuity is never broken. It's always there and where it's always manned. And so then you know, the shift that you're working by what the the roster says before you ever leave the in your debrief that you get when you're before you leave out to the field. So once we got to the field, I was on the 6 p.m. to 6 a.m. shift as was Michael Johnson. And he was working vacation relief for my normal partner, who went to my car line to get it married. Steve Welsh, a good guy. Been trying to find him too, but I haven't had any luck finding him. So maybe he's happy. Didn't shove that night or disappointed. I really don't know. I didn't get a chance to see him again. I thought that was over. They never sent me back to November control. Now yeah, I heard about that as well. So we performed our relief and I was young and energetic and playing table tennis and and always hitting a tennis ball. I had a, we had a all-site garage set. It was on site, but it was not connected to the main long control facility. And I put plywood up on the walls and put tape squares in it. So I could just get out there and had a center line for the nets. I was just, I just love tennis. And I just get out there and that garage for hours and just slam that tennis ball and, you know, and it helped me in tournaments and stuff when I played a lot. Oh yeah. So, but, um, so I, we elected, I elected to do that. And so I didn't go to sleep. And we came on duty at 6 p.m. and did our normal thing and sitting around reading books and so forth. And the other three guys that we were leaving, they, you know, went on to their room, 10 or 11 o'clock that night or so. It was kind of, it was kind of cool because it about, I say about 9, 10, 9, 15 is when I walked outside of Smoked cigarette and then TV's on three channels in which we had, we could view with, I hope, something in 10. I'll look back at the building. And, uh, when I saw the Smoked cigarette and I looked in my East, and it was between 9 and 13 degrees. And I'll just see this large light. And I went, and it was 30, 35 degrees up off the horizon. I went, what was that? What color was it? Hard to describe, but it was, it wasn't bright white. And it wasn't, uh, dull white. It was just in the middle of that somewhere. It's just a color, I'm color blind, but it's a color, I don't know, maybe like your walls in here or something like that. But yet bright and full. It wasn't, there wasn't any gaps in the, in the, in looking at it. It wasn't, you know, like a dark spot or a brighter spot or anything. It's just one color and it just, it just looks a lot. And I went, I'm one day's that. I said, I thought for a minute, I said, it's got to be based on the size of it because you're looking at stars in the background and overhead. And then it's, you can reach up and grab a star out the Milky Way. It just looks that way. It's so clear. And we were with about eight miles north of Newell, South Dakota on Highway 79 and in Belfouche is to the north and to the west. I think 29 miles and in Sturgis is south of us 30, 30 miles. So there was nothing there. We were the brightest thing on that whole prairie area, our launch control facility, which, have between 12 and 14, uh, two foot light cans on it, security and perimeter lights. And of course, I think our fence line is either eight or 10 feet with barbed wire, thermal nails. First of all, I got to stop you. Your recall is insane. Mario, you're, you're rattling off these numbers, like you worked there yesterday. This is crazy. I don't know if anybody really appreciates to what extent you're getting us a detailed picture of what happened. This is remarkable. It just, it's just there. It's unbelievable. So sorry, I didn't want to interrupt you, but I thought I had to just remind the audience of what they're, what it is they're listening to. And I, I challenged them to talk to me about an event that happened 40 years ago and see what they come up with 50 years ago. So I, I, uh, I could probably, I could run 20 miles, you know, with a backpack on an M16 back then and smoke a pack of cigarettes. It didn't, it just didn't bother me. I was just in that good shape. And I'm sorry to say that I just smoked back then, but I did. And I'm, I'm looking to the east, and I'll see this diagonal right now. It just looks so out of place and so odd. And the size of it was what really got my attention, not just the light in the sky. Again, I, well, it couldn't have been the moon. I think there's one scientist who looked at that, you know, as, and said, no, it wasn't the moon. It wasn't Venus. I can't remember his name. I lost ski or least gear. It's got a funny first name, but I'll, I'll think of it. And, uh, I just lived cigarette and didn't think no more about it. And, it just drew my curiosity. And I want, what the hell is that? What, what is that exactly? And I thought B 52 bombers. And I knew it wouldn't helicopters. Now, I think we, I'm not sure the type of helicopters we have. They weren't super buy cocks. There was something else. I need me to do that. But usually, there was, it was always the notification of a trip coming from the main base to your location. On, okay, it's incoming. You think, yeah, there was, there was always communication if that were to happen. You're seeing like the headlights of the craft. Yeah, they just don't send helicopters out and they just land at November control or Keel over Echo or Mike. They just don't do that. They always have a trip plan and they notify wherever that's going before it gets there. You know, because we're heavily armed and we're looking at all areas in, in the sky, perimeter, everything. So, I get this while brained idea. I said, well, it's, I couldn't tell if it was stationary or if it's coming to me. I didn't hear anything. And that's all I could see was that thing just literally hanging in the sky. So I said to myself, when I used to, when I used to go to see with my dad once in a while, and in summers, ships passing, you know, in channels or out at sea, international waters, they would sometimes flip lights at each other. If they, if there was a communication problem, you know, or something one was Russian, one was Korean or Philip, you know, whatever they were, they would flip lights at each other. So I thought, I'll go in there and flip the lights on and off of this thing. And you're kind of taught that also in security police school for identification purposes, for aircraft and notification purposes and that kind of thing. And how to communicate with them basically. Like Morse or similar, you know, like a, like a, there are three blip type sequence or something, and they like knowledge back of, you know, that they're seeing you and you're seeing them. So, you know, like something high beams off. Sure. On the road, same thing, same thing. So I went inside and Bill Holliman, he was a stout sergeant, great guy from North Carolina. He was on the phone with his wife and she was in Rapid City. And I said, hey, Bill, I said, and we're good friends. I said, man, you got to come see this thing. I said, there's a light out here. And I said, I'm going to flip to several lights out of it if you don't mind. And he just looked up at me and just, he just did, they just wave me off, you know, I said, you know, whatever. And the switch was literally on the wall, just like that. And I just walked up there behind him. Now, mind you, the entrance to the capsule crew where the officers are downstairs, that's what his position is directly in front of that door, where his office is set up and he dispatches us, they dispatch until all alarm situations to him, he can relate to us. And we, we, or we all have our weapons, we got our code tables and all that stuff. But anyway, getting back to this, I just walked up and just flipped the lights off and on, just blip, blip, blip, blip, blip, blip, blip, just like that. Walked outside about 20 feet away from the door. I've been right to that very spot again and looked to my east and it was about 10 or 15 seconds later. The damn thing went blip, blip, blip, blip, flipped off, flipped on, but off on and back on. And I went, wow, that's cool. It's got to be be 52 bombers, but still no noise, not coming any closer, not going north, not going south. So how crazy is that? How does that just, it just blew my mind up. I said, what kind of aircraft is that? Is it a helicopter hovering? Still couldn't hear it and out there, even if it was six or eight miles away, 10 miles away, you'd hear a chopper. I mean, it's total silence out there. And so I shook my head and I walked back in. I did the same thing. Came back outside. I even told a bit of home again. I said, man, I flipped the lights out of it, flipped the lights back at me. He just looked up at me like I was an absolute fool back out there again and it did it again. So now I got to, I got to wake up somebody. Somebody got to come see this. So my partner Michael Johnson and we hadn't really said that much to each other. I met him at the say tough building, which are, which is our assembly facility where all the security police went going out in the field that day. I see, that was the first time you met him. Uh, yeah. I was the first time I met him and I think he was from the 66th area, which is down by the Badlands, which, which would be east of Rapid City. And where we were located was to the west and to the north, almost by the Wyoming border. And it was very close to the Wyoming border. And so I want to say, hey, Michael, I said, uh, come out here. I want you to check something out, man. I see some lights out or a light out here. I want you to see what it is. See what you think about it.
And he was kind of hesitant, you know, real nice, real light skinned black guy. Here's some Chicago, I think for Chicago, Illinois. And he was a single guy, lived on base in his parents. That was his permanent home address was in some part of Chicago. So I finally wrangled him to come outside and I said, all right. And you see that right there? And he goes, he just nodded his head, you know? Yeah. I said, hold on. I ran back inside, left him standing there again, about 20 feet from the door. I flipped the lights off and on, off and on, off and on, run back out there again. And I just didn't watch it. And it did it again. So it did it that time. And he I said, did you see that? And he goes, yeah, he goes, I don't know, man, whatever. And he said that to me a couple of times at night, whatever. I don't know if he didn't want to just acknowledge it or do you didn't have any curiosity in him or what? I really don't know. Or he's freaked out by it. He didn't have any excitement at all, though. He just, it just didn't, didn't register with him, you know, on his spidey skills or whatever, you know, senses. And so I said, let's do it again. And he just kind of, I remember him looking down and it was quite cold. It was like nine to 13 degrees at night. It was ice on the ground. So I ran back in. And I got the long drones on, um, fatigues and all that stuff on. So I ran back in and did it again. Come back outside. This would be the third time or mid to four time. Flip the lights off. Flip the lights on. Same thing. Came back out. It was about 15, 20 seconds. It went off. Went on. Went off. And that was it. Just stayed off. I said, well, I said, I don't tell Michael Johnson. I said, I guess that's the end of the, in the show or something. I don't know. And he didn't say anything about it. I said, what do you think that is, man? I said, do you think it just went the other way or, or what? Because he just, he really just shrugged his shelters off. He didn't really. Not interested. Yeah, he was just uninterested. So we go back in and sit back down. And I just kept thinking, you know, what was that? The guy said we're off duty on it. They had already gone off. So I guess the bed or something. Because they get up early and have breakfast. So I grabbed a book or something and started reading the book. Because he knows it's hard to get people to, uh, play ping pong with you or sometimes we played hearts and stuff like that. And we get everybody together. But Bill Holman still on the phone. They've been on the phone for two hours at least. I don't know how you know how that happens. And, uh, of course, the TV went off at 12 o'clock then. That's when you get that really crazy signal at the end of the night and had that broadcast signal. Then it, you know, it had that high-pitch signal when it ended, you know, because we only had three channels. And I guess it was about, um, a few minutes after 12, 12, 15 or so, 12, 12, 5, 12, 15. And I said, and I heard the alarm phone in the flight security controllers office where Bill Holman was. I heard it go off and it makes a noise and I'm going to do this. Like that. And it's really loud. You can hear it all the way out into the kitchen in the day room area. Sure. And there's a reason for that. And, uh, so I hear Bill Holman, he snatches it off. Because it rings until you take it off the hood, right? And I just, as I'm walking in the vestibule and I'm entering his office, I hear him say sit for November 5. And, uh, and none of this is classified, by the way. I want everybody to know that. None of this that I'm going to, that I'm talking about is classified whatsoever in any part. None of it. Um, so I hear him, I hear him say, yes, or sit for six five, sit, sit for the November 5. And so when in there Michael Johnson comes in, Michael Johnson didn't know his way around. Of course, he would be the driver. He outranked me by two months. We were both senior airmen at the time, 23 years of age. I was. And got our weapons, got our code tables and everything that we had to have, had our ditty bags, let your hawk bag. We call it this. We've got all your stuff. In case you have to spend the night out there. You're a rock sack. Yeah, it's, it's similar to that. We call it, um, it's, it's got everything in it, you know, like I said, in case you have to literally spend the night. A few nights on that missile site until a camper alert team gets there. Until the pain is can come and solve the problem. If, if you can't get a reset on what's going on out there on, on alarms, because it has to be back to, uh, non alarm status is the right word. So got our got our briefing and everything and, uh, loaded up the vehicle. Exited the gate, went out to the dirt road. All these are clay roads that connect these sites. There are highways and, um, turn left. At the end of the, at the end of our road. Next intersection, turn left and it was the best about four and a half miles from that intersection up to highway 79. And, uh, the strangest thing is that the road kind of goes down. Then it goes up toward the highway bed. I guess, during the wintertime, you know, when you have, uh, snow and ice and everything so you can run off of it. And that's why they, they build the highway. So they're very smart people about managing that during the wintertime. You know, all the power lines are underground, all that kind of stuff. And that's pretty smart. And I just happened to be sitting when I was sitting in a passenger seat. I just turned and looked over my right shoulder at about four o'clock position. And we're in an F-154 pickup truck. That was our response vehicle, but two blue bubbles on top. USF for security police on the side and weapons racking in behind us. And, you know, so there's a single cab, uh, forward pickup truck. Yeah. And all of them were. They were all the same. They had western mirrors on it. Um, and as I looked over at about the four o'clock position, I see this pulsating glow like this miles away at November, at the November 5 area. I mean, that's as the crow flies, that's where November 5 was. Same direction where you saw the craft initially. Uh, no, the light. No opposite. A completely opposite. Yeah, we saw it east, the east right November control. And now November 5 is back in that direction. So this was here to the east. And then it was there in November 5. Same color? No, different. I didn't see a light as I saw in the sky. This was like a pulsating energy coming up off the ground or coming up through the atmosphere. And it was a clear night. So there were no clouds or anything. So you're seeing kind of just the fall off of the light over the horizon. Like a pulsation, like it was pulsing. Wow. Like it was like this pulsing. And it was very bright and it was, it was large. But I didn't, you know, I couldn't get any. I didn't see a confining, um, shape of it. It was just like a light that you that you'd send over their net corner and just hit a flashlight and it's pulsing light up. Yeah, of course. It's like that. And I said, Hey, Michael, you see that? And of course, he's driving. He's not about the look. And he flew up and, you know, something like that. So, so how are you 79? Take a right. Soon as we got up on top of that road bed and turned to the right, then that four o'clock now became to one one 30 position, right? And then you could really see it. Cause we were up higher now, not much higher, but high enough where you could see that pulsation. And I said, that right there, do you see that? And he just goes, man, whatever. He says, I don't, you know, I don't know. He just didn't want to participate or acknowledge it. And anything, it could be other than ordinary. And do you think that's because he's not familiar with what goes on out there? And so maybe he's thinking himself. It's probably just normal. And, you know, I just don't know about it. Well, it might be, but he'd been there for a while. At Ellsworth and Ben and security police for a while, at Ellsworth. And he was in a different area. So he just really never seen anything. He'd heard about things, but he'd never really seen anything to the best of my knowledge. From what he told me later a few weeks later. And as we headed down toward new population, 230 at the time, to a stop sign, took a right. As I lost view of that pulsating light, as the road big got lower down into town, right? And turned right on Orman Road, O-R-M-A-N. And it goes out on hard pay for about, I don't know, maybe a half a mile or less. And it drops back off on dirt again or clay. And they're really well maintained by the state. And they're beautiful. Go 80 mile an hour on these things, you know, I mean, really can. And as we made that dog leg left turn, heading to November 5, which was just down the road, maybe another mile, they're set this object in the atmosphere directly over that missile site. Maybe 10 feet above the blast door, that was a size. And I'm going to say it is a super Walmart. This thing was gargantuan. And it wasn't a craft that had a shape or a, um, defining shape like wings and, you know, rudders or wind shields or anything like that. It was a complete sphere. And it looked like it had plasma on the outside of it. Like a roiling surface. Like it looked like the sun. It looked like the surface of a close-up picture of the sun. Like this stuff was like liquid and fire and energy all together. Just like molten rock or something, just moving around. And it did have some little, it had some like, uh, energy spikes on it at times. Like these model spikes were just kind of pop up. I mean, when you're
really looked at and it was it was almost hard to look at but I did I did very as hard as I could I really tried to look at it and when we pulled up right on the cattle gate in front of the site it was only maybe 60 to 80 feet to the front gate which is which was a requirement that I had to go in I had to go around the exterior of the site and go in the gates and go on an interior normal procedure just for patrolling yeah and this thing was so massive that where it sat how it sat 10 feet above that blast door I mean right day on dead in the middle of that blast door like it knew where it was when you say a blast door that protects the rocket that's what that's the rocket comes out the ICBM that blows back yeah when the ICBM is launched that blows back and it's home so I got like a railroad track that's short and it blows it and tips it and gets it out the way immediately there's no pool and back it's it's gone and it's dead center over the top dead center directly over top of it and I mean I even looked at the concrete glowing underneath it meaning so bright you know because of the what was above it and I looked at Michael and he was just like with a he had like a glow around him all of a sudden and and it was just I mean I this is very hard to perceive you know when you pull up on something this happened is very difficult to perceive what you're seeing and immediately the atmosphere was just evacuated from our vehicle it immediately what do you mean I couldn't breathe he couldn't either we're just gasping for air just gasping for air and I felt like there was a pressure inside the vehicle and I was being pushed on the chest and literally lit and I had on you know I had on Parker pants full full Parker my beret on my glove I had my gloves on I took one glove off in my weapon and I just felt like I was being and I was 200 and something pounds I was just being lifted up into that back area of the cab of that truck just just being lifted up it would no visible force or anything upon me I just I couldn't breathe and I was being pulled up this way and just like in this chair is being pulled up or something and the only thing that I knew to do was to ask for relief and I grabbed a black 3d cell aluminum flashlight I've called it a mag light but I know they didn't do commercial mag light advertising until 79 this was in 77 so it was before it was every name of mag light and I rolled her into down and I pulled myself up on that on the windowsill of that truck because I was so afraid I couldn't I wouldn't step out of the vehicle I got on bunny boots also if you know what those are but those are for super cold temperature areas they're inflatable and I pull myself up on that windowsill and I grabbed onto the bubble up there with my at a glove tan on here and I didn't have a glove on this hand and I just flashed my light actous incredibly huge object three or four times just like I did back up in November control around even though I did it I was just asking for relief in my mind I was asking for relief flash flash okay I don't even know what this was and so that is uh and it was just as if somebody turned a faucet off I just I slid back down on that seat and I don't know what happened in my flashlight I grabbed my and I grabbed my gun I grabbed my weapon I put it back between my legs now I told Michael Johnson I said it's gonna be okay now and could breathe better could literally breathe better ball this is taking place in about 15 seconds since I rolled up there and then a black ball about the size of that wall right there what do you think it is eight foot it had these lines on it like vents they weren't like a like a it was like I had to say it was like on the directional it just came out of nowhere and it was a colored black that it's not like that black or that black it was a black that is very difficult to to describe it wasn't flat black wasn't gloss black it was black it's like a little it's like a basketball with nozzles all around these all take sorts of gasses shoot from each side of it and then push it and move it and just go up and come down and go you have to go everywhere that's just like a little like a big bullet or something I don't know did it make any sense what it was trying to do no it was just don't stop it was right left tell me and it came within about eight inches of the hood at that vehicle and it was literally right here in front of the windshield and it it shot straight up straight down around the decide right here next to me I mean there's no you don't even you don't know what what it is on the other side of Michael Johnson side you know he's not speaking you're saying anything and I mean I'm not saying anything and when it stayed for eight or ten seconds and then it was just gone uh it was a strangest feeling to have that thing all over you and not even know what it was no no where it came from never recognized or seen anything like that in my entire life and the word drone was not even thought about then or used especially in in any of my vocabulary anyone else is in security police that I knew love see a small ticked and broke the apple and nothing ever seen can you describe it is to three feet and it was okay let's pause for a second let's pause for a second Mario you need to calm down take a deep breath and uh it left and it seemed like it was a void that was like 45 seconds where it was just nothing but pure white light inside the vehicle and it's just seem like if if I can describe it it's time slowing down and reason I say that because the brightness was so was so intense that I could I could I could see inside the vents of that of that F-150 I could see down inside the vents it was just lit up a foot and a half down in the dashboard from this light and dust particles were just moving past me like super super slow as if time was just stopped or slowed down I have no idea how that's even done or if that's what happened but that's the way it appeared me and Michael Johnson I can't speak for because every time I looked at him he was just he was just stuck that steering wheel and he was just bathed in this light and mind you now we're at 45 degree angle that's our response position so actually he was closer to the to the craft or to the object than I was it was on his side of the vehicle I was on the dark side and I see I see this this dust coming by me and I see all these I don't see shadows I see everything is so lit that I can put myself right there right now and and it's it's very it's really uncomfortable but everything is so lit that I've never experienced light lightning or any search light or anything like that in my life and I think that light in itself had a function of what I don't know maybe some type of a sedative kind thing because not one time that I that I feel as if you know I was going to charge my weapon and start just shooting at anything or everything I never felt that way I I wanted to run but there was nowhere to run you were that and or a mess yourself literally that's the kind of fear that that this invoked to me I can't speak for anyone else in the end.
And then these thoughts for what I'm describing and pulling up there, less than probably two and a half, three minutes have passed, and all this has taken place. And I'm guessing there, I'm just saying that that's how quickly this all unraveled. It's still a long time. Yeah. And then this smell, it hit me like a blanket and it just coated inside my nostrils and then my lungs and my throat. It just coated me like ammonia and sulfur to just, it takes your complete attention for everything else. You don't, I've never smelled anything quite like it again, so I'm similar in a cooler with some shrimp going bad that was opened, was it like chemical? I can only say ammonia because I mean I worked around all these laboratories and different areas like even where I work now in Georgia Pacific, it's, you know, you smell these smells and you, and sting your nose? Yeah. Yeah, that did. It just coated, it just felt like I was coated. I couldn't get it out of me, you know, at all. And as soon as that was gone, I, or it wasn't really gone, it was still there, it permeated inside of that truck. I knew the only thing protected me on my right side was that thin piece of glass on that window. And I don't even know where that, where that thought came from, but that's what I thought. And then I started to fear and as soon as I started to fear is when I heard the first word do not fear, do not fear, not verbally inside of me, like I don't just mean in my head, I mean through me, through every cell in my body radiated to sound the exact same time. And it was an English, it was three words, do not fear, do not fear said in that way, do not fear. If you had to describe the voice, male or indescribable indescribable, it just, it's not like anything we've ever heard. The only thing that I can associate with it is when a father or a sibling would talk to a baby in a mother's womb, that's the only thing that I can associate with, with how it would feel because baby here, a baby hears those things. He hears, or she hears those sounds in a mother's womb when, when the father, I know it's talking to him, you know, like all of us dads done, like all of us dads do, we've all done that, and it always reminded me of that. And I heard that twice, do not fear, do not fear. And I just turned and I looked to my right because I felt a presence in about 20 foot away from me, we're four beings, three small in one tall, and the one on the right, now the one on the left, it would be, I was just looking from their point of view, the one on the right he had, they had in these little skin tight little fitting, I don't, you're not coveralls or jumpsuits, jumpsuit, I don't know what, yeah, I guess they're, they're, but they're real skin tight, and he had a waistband of some tight, and in that band was a stick about that long, and it had a yellow tip on it about that big, besides what I was looking at, that's really what, what I paid attention to, and it honestly, it wasn't what I was looking at on four alien beings, and their smells, and they're talking within me, it was when I realized what I was looking at, is when in here just kind of broke down for a second. I knew there was no escape, and there was no sense in saying anything or doing anything, I didn't know what Michael Johnson was doing at that particular time, the next thing I know, I heard do not fear one more time in succession, and lights out, just that fast, just lights out. So how tall is this? This is 6 foot, he's different, he's different, he's different, he's different. He's different, he's different, and he's different, he's different, he's different, he's different, he's different, he's different, he's different, he's different, he's different, he's different. And as soon as I couldn't see any more, or I was out of sleep, or whatever I was, I just took a deep breath and I just popped awake, and I'm in total blackness. No lights, no missile sight, completely away from where we were, didn't know that at the time, I just thought they turned all the lights off on November 5th, because that's where we were dispatched to because of this alarm. And I said, hey Michael, I said, what what happened, what's going on? He is stuck to this theory wheel, just glued to it, and he wouldn't talk to me, he wouldn't answer me. And I found out so odd that a grown man like you sitting there, me hollering at him, that or whatever stupid he's in, he's going to eventually hear me, push his face with my index finger, put my finger in his ear, not that far, thinking that would shock him or something, but it had no effect. And I turned him a right and I looked, and I was still thinking about what I had just seen, thinking maybe this was all a dream, this didn't really happen. And there's a white wall, and it goes up at about a 45 degree angle. I know I use a lot of degrees, but I live that way, and it was white, and it went up about 50 feet. It wasn't an angular, it was at an angle, so I said, where are we, what happened, where is November 5th? And I'm saying this to Michael Johnson and nothing from him. I reached out and pulled a lever on the door handle, and I stepped out in mud. The mind was 9 to 13 degrees, no it was ice, on the ground, and when we were, it wasn't. And I didn't know where we were, I'd never been there before. So I'm in question with him, I'm trying to pull him and yank him and talk to him, and didn't think about the radio or nothing, and we had not made any kind of security check since we arrived on November 5th, which was really unusual, because that alarm dictated that we made a security check every five minutes during the process of that, what's called striking a sight. And I thought, I'm in trouble now, you know, that's all I could think of, what everything else I'm in trouble now. A few seconds passed and all of a sudden the radio just cracked a life and it said, said W.S. seed in November 1, be you copy. And I looked at Michael and I thought, well, here's a friendly voice. There was a wing security control back at Ellsworth. Now these large control facilities are very, they're very far away from the main base of Ellsworth. You live at these facilities, large control facilities, there's 15 of them at Ellsworth or there were. For with a total of 150 missiles, each launch control facility has 10 minute man missiles assigned to it. And you go and you take care of all 10 of those that are in your area or you serve as backup to any other area that may need you, that may need you. So I continue to try to wake him up and I said, I said Aaron Woods, WSC, I said, it's November 1, he said, are you, he goes, are you hurt? And I said, no sir, he goes, what's your status? And I said, I'm not sure, I'm not sure. And he said again, he goes, do you need medical attention or something like that?
like that. And I said, I don't, but I said, I can't get my partner, Michael Johnson, to talk to me. I said, he's just frozen to the steering wheel and won't move. And there was a long pause. He didn't really know how to. He didn't know what to say about that. I mean, these things are all new. You just got to go with it as it comes at you. You can't just really not a procedure that I knew of that. You had guidelines to follow unlike striking a side or something like that, which we had strict guidelines. And that was my biggest worries. I never stepped a foot on that side. And now, you know, now I was responsible for that. So I was going to be in trouble. It's all I could think about was I was going to be in trouble. How's it going to explain this, you know, you and Michael, yeah, how's it going to explain this? And I couldn't get him to say a word. I didn't know what he thought or what he heard or what he didn't hear. I'm, you know, I'm still shaking from what I've heard and what I saw and what I smelled. But that's never left me. I want to pause here and just go back a little bit to the encounter. When you saw clearly, this is hard for you to talk about. I see that. It gives me. Yeah. I try not to let it boil me, but it just comes upon me. How can you not? I don't know. I mean, this is otherworldly. I mean, there's no other way to put it. And, you know, any way that you feel about it, there's no protocol for how you're supposed to feel about these things. So, you know, but it is clear to me that you have an emotional reaction to reliving this. When you saw Michael Johnson's face as he was being bathed in this light in the car, what was his expression? Wide eyes, breathing normal, just wide eyes. That's really all I could tell. Was his mouth open? Was he just? No. No. I don't mean it was mouth was open. It was a little bit later, but it wasn't then. Do you feel like he was just in shock? He was just like stuck in time or something. I don't. Frozen. Yeah. He was just frozen. He was just literally locked up. And, you know, and I got to say, I didn't pay attention to his arms because I really couldn't see him at that time in his hands. But pulling his jacket back when we got him up, when I got him up to steering wheel, he was so, he was so locked up. Literally, how long had he been stuck on that steering wheel like that? How do you, how do you grab on to something and not let go for however long it was? And not be aware of it for one. And for two, it was almost as if we were going to break a finger getting his hands off that blue plastic F-154 steering wheel. Literally. And I had helped doing that. Okay. So take me back then. You're, you're being radioed in. First of all, the radio calling in. Did you ever wonder how long have they been trying to reach us? Did you ever get an answer to that? No. No. So it could have been the first time. Like you could have just maybe appeared and they were like, Oh, what are you guys doing out there? Like there's no way that you can know that. Okay. And so you get radioed in. They send help. Well, first you got to find it where you are. Mm hmm. Well, and I stepped out and found out I was in standing in mud. I just had great questions that I couldn't even begin to answer with everything else that had just gone on. And I kept trying to talk to him and wing security control. So we want you to make one minute security checks because we are going to try and get a position. He didn't say what we were doing. And he said, we are going to try and get a position. And I'd never been a part of that or not had I not done it either. But we learned some, some were to that in tech school, security police tech school just never used it. Never thought it would or, you know, but it was there in case it had to be used. So he was doing that based on his one minute security checks as I had to, I just call in, you know, and say senior woods, wing security control, security check. And he just 10 for that. And he said, they're coming. They're coming. They're coming. You know, we're trying. We're trying. And that's the, that's the response I got back and forth in him. And of course, see, he could pass me about Michael Johnson, you know, do you see it? Do you know, can, can you get him on the radio? I said, I can't get him off the steering wheel. I can't get him to speak. I can't get him to do anything. And there was a great pause in that. I don't know, you know, because all the, all the wing security control personnel were listening to that. All security police personnel were listening to that. All of them through all three facilities, they all see three sites. I mean, they were all three areas, the 66, 67, 68. So everybody was aware of it. But I was not aware of is where I was. And how we got there. And it started getting bright. Now, we arrived November 5 before 1 a.m. Preferably right around 12 30 quarter to 1 somewhere in there when all this took place. When I looked at my little military time, X 28 hour watch back then, it was after 6 a.m. So almost six hours, five hours at least it passed, five hours. No recollection how we got there. When did you look at your watch at that point when the sun came up when you saw a sun and you just started getting light in the east. And I went, what the because I had no idea this much time had passed. It just seemed, it just didn't, it just seemed like a second, like a few minutes from where we were to where we are now. Did that hit you at all when you saw the time? Yeah. I was like, Oh my God. Now, I'm really in trouble because we didn't go on that site. I just knew I was going to answer to a lot of stuff, you know, right then in there. And I still couldn't get my partner, my team leader to do, to answer or to be any or cognitive of anything that was going on at all. He was just, he was just a blank. And it was a little after six when I saw the first set of headlights coming over a hill. And we were about, I guess we were about four and a half miles off the road of Highway 79 behind New Lake Reservoir Dam. But I do want to know and back up a little bit to where when I got out of the vehicle and looked this way and that way, which ended up being north and south, the road that we were on, we just, this was a two wheel drive vehicle. All of our four out there, they were all two wheel drive vehicles, so we were going to drive. And where we were sitting on this, on this little road behind this dam, there was just wheels wide enough to be sitting upon. There was not a place to go in here and turn around and to come back in the direction of which we were facing. It was the only way we could be facing to get out of there. If not, we couldn't, we couldn't have gotten our vehicle out of there. If it had been sitting east and west, that you couldn't have moved it. And if Michael Johnson, Ben Conscious and opened up his door, and it had been total darkness and took two steps, he had gone down about a 20 or 30 foot drop off, not straight, but just to stand a drop off into another holding pond for that dam overflow, because the weird dam was down to, was north of us at the, at the far end of New Lake Reservoir Dam. But there were tracks coming in, there were no tracks. There were no tracks coming in, no tracks anywhere. So fresh snow, ice. Yeah, it was ice and snow, and there was no tracks. And there was no tracks. No tracks. None. Where we were, was just a round place that was de-thought and wet and clay. And there was mud around your track mud. Yeah. And there was no tracks coming in for us when, when Sergeant Garza, he was a buck sergeant and him and his team member, they were front, they were a backup alert team from another facility. I think Oscar, the thing Oscar fight, they sent them over. And of course, we had our backup alert team. Now, I think they, they might have gone to November 5, but I really don't know. But a total of six security policemen in three vehicles in tandem arrived at the same time, you know, 20, 30 feet apart. Sergeant Garza was the closest. One thing I don't remember is if our vehicle was running or it was off, I don't remember that. Did they comment on the fact that there was no tracks? Not at that time. No. At all. Sergeant Garza didn't either, but he said, and I walked around. I stepped out and I walked around the front of the vehicle and I walked toward him. He's about 20 feet away from me. And I said, Sergeant Garza said, what's going on? Man, he goes, Mario, he goes, I don't know, but I can't talk to you about that. He said, I'm just here to escort you to November control. I said, what the hell are we doing here, man? And as I noticed, it wasn't dark and you want to get light. I said, the fucking time is it, man. It was like 6, 15 in the morning. And I said, okay, I understand. And I told him, I said, I need help with Michael Johnson. He didn't know Michael Johnson either because I said, he wouldn't know our normal flight. And he just, he said, what do you mean? I said, I can't get into talk. I can't get in the move. I can't get into acknowledge anything. I said, I don't know what's wrong with him. So he walked over to the vehicle not saying anything. I opened up the driver's side door and there's Michael sitting there like this, seat belted in. We only had lap belt seat belted in. And he's just stuck on the steering wheel. Staring straight ahead. I don't know if he was
blinking or not. I never remember him blinking at all. I put my hand in his face, like I said, did everything I could possibly have screamed at him, y'all that him. Fingered in the air, everything, everything. No response at all. It's a locked up human being. Anyway, finally, we unbelted him, and we both, I got on the pastor side, came across a seat because we had to get him in the pastor seat, and I started working on his right hand, undoing his thumb and his index finger, and getting his hand opened up, so I could get it up, steering wheel. Garza did the same thing on the left side. That's how he got his hand off of there. When you were taking his hand off, did his finger stay in position as you were opening him, or did they were they trying to lay? They were trying to continue. They were trying to keep holding. He was like, he was in a great muscle cramp in both arms, and he was like, he's in a great muscle cramp, and I just don't have words for it. And once we got him up the steering wheel and put his place his hands down on his lap like that, I just grabbed him on the inside of the leg, and up by the back of the collar, and I just grabbed drug him across the seat, and I just put the suit belt back on him. And I kept talking to him the whole time, and nothing. He just sat there just like just looking straight ahead and just sitting there, just sat there the entire time, never said a word. His weapon was there, all this stuff, his ditty back was up with where it was supposed to be, everything was where it was supposed to be, and had been. I went around and got into the driver's seat, cranked a truck up, I did do that, remember that. And Garza went back to his vehicle. So the truck was off. The truck was off. Yeah, at that time it was off. So I cranked it up, turned on the lights, everything was fine. Started to move, I slipped a little bit, you know, as I said, it was on a two-wheel drive, and we were crunching through just snow and ice, you know, it was about a foot and a half deep, foot and a half deep. And got in behind Garza, they turned around, and they went on, as we exited out on the highway 79, the other two, back up alert teams, they went their way, but Garza stayed with us all the way to November control. Got to the gate at November control. They opened the gate when this all was coming. Of course, radio communication going to the gate, automatic gate. So that was opened. And I pulled in right in front of the flight security controller's office. It was just like an outward vestibule. And when did, there was, you know, there were the off-duty security policeman there that was Bill Holleman was there. There were two officers there that had been underground. That morning, they waited. Their relief normally takes place, and they leave every other day. I think is how that works, and I can't quite recall their schedule. But usually, alternate commencing, or they stayed there overnight, they didn't do that same schedule on other sites. So they were relieved with their new guys going down stairs, and they come up. So I had Bill Holleman, the on-duty security policeman that were there in myself, and Michael Johnson would make up the off-duty shift. But we have a facility manager, a site cook. And of course, my flight chief, Mr. Sergeant Joel Gray, and take Sergeant Robert Hawkins, they were both there awaiting our arrival. And when they pulled up, they just came up to the side of the vehicle, and as I stepped out, Sergeant Gray said, he goes, what's going on with you? What's going on with you, or something like that? Because he was an Alabama guy, and we had a really good rapport in relationship. What's going on with you, boy, or something, something like that? And I said, I don't know, Sergeant Gray, I said, I don't know how to answer you, sir. He said, what's wrong with him? I said, I don't know. And they literally opened the door and got him out. I said, yes, to help. I said, he's not responding to anything. I've been trying to talk to him and get his attention in any way, or get him to talk, or to even acknowledge that there's somebody else in the room with him, but he won't even do that. So literally the flight security can, or not know the facility manager. And I think one of the officers of the two got him, yeah, he's a lieutenant, he got him, and they put him under, and they got him under the shoulders, and they took him to the back room to the facility manager's bedroom. And they sat him down, I guess he didn't try to get some fluids in him or something, but we were immediately separated. And that was the strangest thing because all I did was ask about him. So they took me and the guy went in the day room. We turned in our weapons as a normal procedure. It was a program that we were relieved with our weapons, but that's never been the case. They didn't take anything. They never took our weapons, period. Turned in all over stuff, co-tables, and all of the stuff had to be burned and that was done, but were you tired at this point? I don't really recall how I was. I don't think so. I think I was so full of adrenaline. Yeah. And mind you, I'd been up the day before since about four o'clock. And when I was brought to the safe tap building to go to do my normal three-day shift, and then I stayed up all day, and then this happened that night, you know. And so I'd been up all that time straight. So maybe even a little bit delirious at this point because you're like trying to figure out what happened. You've got missing time. You might be tired, but also you have this adrenaline pumping through your system. Very strange, probably a very strange feeling. It really honestly is. Yes. In confusion. I just knew that I had to be very selective in every single emotion and word that I stated that day to anybody I spoke with because you did not want them mistaking what happened for something else. Had I said what I saw out that right side window approaching me, PRP would have been gone. A job would have been gone. I'd have probably been put in a storeroom or something, but my whole career would have been down to tubes, just that fast. And just to pause here, PRP, the personal reliability program. Yes. Can you explain a little bit about what that is? Oh yeah. Well, it's a security measure taken from personnel that work in highly sensitive areas around nuclear equipment or sensitive nuclear materials or anything like that deemed that a catastrophe or a wrong move or a person that was unscrupulous could take something and do something with it to hurt others and many others or contaminate something or could do anything to harm many, many people. So PRP program is placed there in essence as a guideline to keep people on the straight and narrow. It's your drug tested regularly? Yeah, drug tested. Well, they do swab P tests, one test, hair test, all the way above, yes. And then let's say you have a headache one day and you want to grab a couple of aspirin. Well, that's an aspirin, okay. Aspirin is okay, but if you take any kind of drug, you know, like that should be prescribed and it's not sure it shows up and boom, you're done. I mean, you're taking in, you're examined and you're cross-referenced and investigated and the idea of you saying like, oh, I'm feeling I'm feeling depressed or something. You can't say any of that. Negative. That's gone. That's gone. So you're under pretty strict guidelines, guidelines, almost surveillance. Oh, yeah. And so you're choosing your words wisely because you know that if you say the wrong thing here, there goes your job. Everything. Your clearance is everything. Everything. And I was, you know, I was new. I was just a senior airman and I was newly married and I'm just trying to do a job. That's what I was there for. And I really enjoyed it up to that point. I just didn't understand what had happened. Are you thinking to yourself, Michael is going to lose his job? I didn't know. Honestly, I didn't know because I couldn't, I didn't know what he had seen, what he heard, what he would remember. But just like his state, like the state that he's in, I'd have been like, yeah, maybe this guy's, you know, I didn't know if he'd ever recover from it the way that I saw him. I've never seen another human being act that way. So now you go into like a debriefing situation? I'm just in a day room. Just in a normal day room, we sit and watch TV that turned the TV off and everybody that was even on duty was standing around the outer perimeter and they had me sitting in a chair, you know, a lean back chair. And in the day room, just in Sergeant Gray was kind of, mesh Sergeant Gray was kind of leading the, the investigation or the interrogation and getting ideas from others. And it said, there was one officer in there. The other one was back with Michael Johnson and the facility manager in that room. And I was just asked everything, what, what happened? What did you see? What did you do? You didn't go on the site? You know, what happened? They were, you know, not told them. I said, it was an object. I said, gargantuan thing. I said, I don't know what happened. Well, how did you get to where you were? I mean, just all types of cross-referencing questions like that. So I don't know how we got there. Well, the vehicle didn't drive itself there. I mean, there was, you know, there was real muddle and a lot of things that I even said, you know, and it just, it just makes you feel smaller and smaller. Well, how come you didn't, you didn't strike that site? And I couldn't really answer that. Other than, I don't know why, you know, and you had to be very selectful in that, in that appropriate answer. So you mentioned the object. You didn't mention it being the smell.
- Oh, correct. - Any of that stuff. - Yeah. - Okay. - And I told them of the round ball object too, it came down in front of the vehicle and about the evacuation of the atmosphere inside the truck, the pressure on the chest for both of us and how Michael Johnson acted and what he did or didn't do. Everything that I've told you with the exception of what I saw out the right side window, I told them is best I could. And of course, that wasn't the end of it. So after about two, two hours, two and a half hours of that, then Sergeant Gray, he was in the Flight Security Controller's office while I was still out there. I told him I said, I have to go to the restroom. I just needed to, I needed some silence to myself, you know? And not that I had to do anything or whatever. I just, I went into that restroom and there were two stalls and I just went into the far stall and I closed the door and I just sat there. And I was in my fatigues. I just felt, I felt dingy, I felt dirty or grimy or something, it was a better word for it. And I remember putting my head in my hands and on my knees and I just sat there kind of rubbing my head and all of a sudden I get this super high pitch whining in my ears and my eyes are closed and it's like a scream inside my head, just super high pitch and I open my eyes and then, and the colors around me changed. Like P green, like honestly, like a P green color, just everywhere, that's what I was seeing out of my eyes, everything just looked at. I mean, it was a bright, sunny day. And I don't know if perhaps the being subjected to bright light or something like that was doing that 'cause I was trying to find an answer in my mind, it was just rolling over. But this noise got so loud, I remember placing my hands on the side of my ears and I put my head down and when I closed my eyes, I was leaving my body and I had a, I had a clear path through me out my feet, I just knew that was a way that I could leave my body and I felt like I kept, anytime I close my eyes, I go further down each time and I get here, I got down to here if there's such a measurement and it freaked me out so bad I popped my eyes back open and when I did, I see this, I see these four little furry feet going across the tile floor in front of the door and the solenoid man, it was a German Shepherd drug dog. And behind him was two pair of super shiny Cochrane law enforcement boots that we always wore. And the guy says, you okay in there, Mario? And I said, yeah man, I said, I'm all right, I'm fine. I said, I'm glad you're here. I said, my diddy bags out there in the day room and he said, he said, oh, wherever I've already checked all that, he said, you guys are good. He said, I've done it all, he said, just come and check on you. He said, he knew me, but I don't know who he was. I don't, I just don't know who he was. It's just, he knew me though. So he, I opened the door and he's still there and you know, both of the pet their dogs ever and I didn't, I just said, you know, what a pretty boy was. I remember looking at Andy had my attention and did you feel flushed at all? Oh yeah, absolutely, absolutely. And the colors had not come completely back yet. I still had that, I still had that vision in my mind or in my eyesight of this pea-green color. And it was, it was calming down, but all I wanted to do, I turned that sink water on and that ice cold water from that huge well underground, and that's how the cold water is like here. It's super cold, you know, and super nice. And I just drenched myself and I had my fatigues on, had long johns on, and T-shirt, long john top, you know, long john pants and my fatigues pants. I just soaked myself and we weren't wearing cammy fatigues and we were in those grays back at that time. And I was put all my hair and my face and got me a peppered towel and was wiping myself down and I walked back out in the day room and I remember my, I meshed a certain gray sand. What did you take a bath in there? I said, yes sir, I said, if I could, I would do that. I said, I just, I just, I needed to do that. He didn't say nothing. He said, well, get your bag. He said, we've got to go back to base. He said, we can commander and the base commander or a deputy base commander wants to meet with you. So that's where we were heading, about 55 minutes back to Elzer, therefore it's base. - I want to put a little pause here. I find it very interesting, the out of body thing and it reminds me because one of the best ways, have you ever left your body since then? - Yes. - Okay, one of the best ways that I've encountered through people I've talked to and interviewed in the books I've read about leaving your body is fatigue. Fatigue is like almost a guaranteed way. Like if you skip a night's sleep and you try to stay up, there was a guy Marco who was in our group at the gateway process when I did the Monroe thing and he was a firefighter and they would often, you know, spend 48 hours up and they'd sleep at the firehouse. And one night he was telling me too, as soon as his head hit the bed, like as soon as they hit the bed, I didn't have time to fall asleep. Like he was rising up through his body and going through the ceiling and whatnot, but that seems to be, you know, a catalyst for out of body events. So you might have been experiencing that on top of this other thing, you know, or maybe it was facilitated by your experience. I don't know, but I think it's interesting that you had that happen there. Like how bizarre does this day get? - Absolutely. I try to make sense of it and not only but what, but why in what's the lesson? And I can't answer any of it. I really can't. I do every day because there's not a day goes by where some part of this doesn't infiltrate back, infiltrate back to me in some way. I can see something that pushes that memory forward, I can smell something that ignites other thoughts, you know, it's really it's consuming. And it's, it never goes away. And I don't think it ever will until the day I'm no more. But yeah, it's a strong, you know, a lot of people in your position, I, you know, that I've spoken to and I asked them like, what's the one thing that you would ask them, you know, whatever did this and the answer is often, is not often is always, why me? - Yeah. - It's, it's an invasive personal sort of thing that you went through. And for something that really important to have happened, there has to be a reason, right? - Yeah. - Okay, so you're, you got 55 mile drive to - Backdales were. - Back to Ellsworth. And I kept, I even asked Jordan Gray before we left. I said, well, what about Michael Johnson? Don't worry about him, he'll be fine. Sergeant Hawkins is gonna bring him back. I said, okay, no problem. So I got my stuff and got in his vehicle all the way back. You know, we talked about the whole thing. He from start to finish and what I saw. I guess he was looking for something else other than what I had told him, you know, and he even asked me, says there's something else that you want to tell me that you haven't told everybody. And again, I would not say what I saw at that right window. I didn't, he was asking you. - Yeah, he was asking me, is there anything else I wanted to say? You know, you know, what I saw, but I didn't want it, that I didn't say in front of everybody back at the launch control facility. So I just, I said, no, I said, that's, that's what I remember, that's what I know. And I just continued onward and, you know, we talked small talk and I didn't, I tried not to, I tried not to just discuss that the whole way back, I only answered questions that he asked me. And I'd look and say, oh, that's a pretty cow with her along the road along the highway. Or, you know, this is a really beautiful country up here. You know, I just tried to get my mind and his questioning off of me for a little bit. And I guess I was kind of like the refreshing part of digging a bath in the sink, you know, was getting something out off of me. But I could tell he was concerned and he did say something, concern, something about when his dad was young and he were fishing or something that they saw something. But that's all he said, he didn't say, go into any more of us. You know, I just tried to tell him, I don't think he, I don't think he could comprehend the size of this thing. I really don't. 'Cause I told him, I said, in my opinion, I said it be at least, at least the size of the seitef building which was our security police main ops building back on base and which was an old B-52 hanger converted into office area and training area for us. Some people say the size of a football field they literally mean, yeah, it really is a size of a football field. and I think to our visitors size has no. meaning whatsoever they do whatever they whatever they need I guess I don't know but so 55 minutes back went into the box elder gate which is the back gate at Ellsworth went to the say top building he brought me up to the side door I got my stuff my daddy bag and I followed him in went in front of uh me it was like more two o'clock my wife had been notified they would let me talk to her and I was talking right kind of Ralph's breakers off his door and of course he had me set on a bench outside the door and he was a security police commander and he's been a pretty good guy after that time when I'd had interaction with Colonel Spraker but he and he knew me by name and he'd they try to know everybody and and and also that there are about 800 security policemen on at Ellsworth Air Force Base whether they work aircrafts or they work missiles so about they said one in four people that you'd meet walking down the sidewalk or in the b-extra commissary was a security policeman which is true which I mean really was so when he came back out he was in about 15 or 20 minutes with the commander when he came back out he said all right he's ready to see you now he said report in so that meant you know a full a formal report in meaning I got up and my starting grade went back into the room went over to the right side of the room and Colonel Spraker's desk was like straight ahead maybe 20 25 feet or rather large size office so I hit him banged on the door you know like that and he said inner you know and I I walked up to his desk but then three feet of it and I said senior member was reporting his orders sir instead of detention until he told me I could go at a ease in which I did and not really looking but counting people as I went in there was a total of five people in there and there were three standing one standing and two sitting over to my left one young guy medium age guy maybe or middle age guy maybe in his 30s or so then it was a tall older man and he had on up like a great tweed suit and a hat and he had to hat under his arm so I thought he maybe he was ex-military or something because you know you don't you don't wear your lid your cover inside any building at any time and then I had the deputy based commander was there besides Colonel Spraker Colonel Spraker was behind his desk and the deputy based commander sitting over to his right and he said well senior member was seem like you've had an interesting evening that's what he said interesting evening and I didn't I just looked at him and I said uh yes sir just that's all I knew to say because you want to tell us about it and I said yes sir and I looked to my look to my left and I remember him saying something like don't worry about them because I thought maybe he'd introduce me to them or something this is so and so and so and so but I didn't rate that I ranked that high so they didn't tell me anything so I went through the whole thing of of uh telling him about flashing the light at this thing you know how to the east side of the side and where it was located in the sky and what I did and who I told because they had to be brought in and talked to as well it wasn't just me yeah to crop right yeah everything everybody that was that was involved had to had to be talked to and uh told him about Michael Johnson how he actually and again I asked him said how is Michael Johnson and I kept telling don't worry about Michael Johnson he'll be just fine this is just about you and what we're talking about in this room right now I'm a suggestion and my starting gray he was sitting over to my he was over my right and he was standing he was sitting either they went through everything I guess starting gray had it said something or told him a little bit about what happened I really don't know because he started uh Colonel Spreaker started saying saying some things like well tell me about the size of this craft tell me about this tell me about you know this item that came down over the hood and that and around your vehicle what did you smell I told him I smelled and I explained all that to him nobody ever questioned or said a word about any of that and this one on but questions and answers by me for about two and a half hours wow so I'd been up all that time and got into the base I guess it was about 10 10 10 30 that morning that's in his office still at 12 30 or so and uh the I knew he was pushing for me to say something about seeing he kept me asked me is there anything you're not telling me is there anything you're not telling me and I said no sir I wouldn't just I wouldn't say what I saw at all out the side of that window how do you think they knew I have no idea I hadn't said anything unless Michael Johnson it said something but I did I don't know if he did I don't think he did I really don't know but I did get answers a few weeks later not by them but by Michael Johnson and I'll go into that well so and this man the great tweets you never find out who he is and I know that skinny a real skinny guy too you know that tall he yeah he's tall and skinny got like yeah yeah I'm assiated looking I was like what is this guy he needs to eat something I mean really I thought that he was old older 50 60s somewhere like that and then the man setting next to him was captain Jack Reed and he was the OSI commander or officer in charge at Ellsworth at that time and sitting next to him was a young officer OSI named Rick Dodie Richard Dodie yeah you know I didn't know him from Adam's house cat this is early in 77 early in his career yeah never known him or yeah I didn't even think anything about him or but he was OSI yes he was probably just on some training too like I mean that's what he's later told me he was there to study such exact communications they had something going on with some communication activities that it didn't understand or something and he told me he it's so it's you know when you mention his name in this topic and for those are not familiar with Richard Dodie he's got a sorted history with misinformation and it's really hard to take what he says at face value but you know if it were possible to take what he says at face value he's got to have some interesting stories oh my god if we were able to believe anything he said yes if he's in a room like that how many other rooms like that was he in exactly so okay but these of this this tall gentleman is well in the tweed suit it was it was it Bob Jacobs who had mentioned no who's who had mentioned the tweed suits there was another instance of gentleman and tweed suits I think it was Bob Jacobs when he got debriefed oh okay all right going back to that yeah yeah when they were telling him like oh you didn't see anything or whatever you don't ever talk about it again yeah there's gentlemen and tweed suits again and it was a light graze and ugly ugly suit even for 1977 although not military yeah no not military and and for a civilian to be in that room yeah I mean what the heck you don't get you don't get access to that type of thing is a civilian no especially you know the sensitive nature of the area let alone a sighting with some unidentified object you're sitting on a base that has nukes no civilian is just going to walk into a room of the kernel and listen in on some type of debrief like what is your position sir where are you from that's absolutely OSI has to be there yes but this other gentleman dressed as a you know in in in civilian garb is is unusual very unusual that's way I didn't I felt I felt something from him I don't know what it was but I was I don't know I knew we're kernel sprakers to it and I knew where the deputy based commander was standing I know what how they were feeling and you know they had to go look at radar they had to go look at a whole lot of things they I mean the tower would have would have picked that thing up yeah I never got anything I never got any information concerning that I mean they just shut me down as quickly as possible and this and our our talking our debriefing went on like I said two and a half or so hours a lot of things discussed there yeah and after what I'd already been through at at back in November control with master Sergeant Grave I mean I don't know if any of those that one officer that was in in the room in the day room in the day room with us in anybody else maybe they made phone calls and had a maybe they had information that we talked about there and not in the commander's office because it just seemed as if they had something preset up before I got there how did all how long did these people know about this before I even arrived how long They've been in that room and what had they discussed. That was a question that I brought to Rick Dodie when I
The following made communication with him in 28 and 2019, 2021. Did he give you any information that you deemed valuable? He just simply said he knew of it and knew that there were two of us and that he was sent to medical to pick up our medical records because I was taken in the commander's staff car by a driver or when our debriefing stopped in the commander's office, I was asked to go to the flight surgeon's office to be examined. So I did his office told him they all stayed behind, but when that driver took me over to the hospital to the flight surgeon's office, there were two flight surgeons in there. And when I got there, Rick Dodie and that Jack Reed, they were already there. And this was the kind of examination room that had those, it's important that I'll tell you this, they had those, those gray dividers of the 50s, 60s vintage that separated like examination rooms and then they had like that wavy glass at the top of them. So they were only outside of that looking toward where I was and I went, it was a nurse and there were two of these flight surgeons when I went in there. And the toddler one said to me, he said, "Senior, what did you say you had an interesting evening?" I understand. Again. So I just looked at him and said, "Yes, sir." He goes, "Ask me if I'd disrobe which I did and you know down to my underwear and a wet t-shirt." And so they examined me, eyes, nose, ears, throat, elbows, everything and just talking and talking between themselves. They'd walk off her second, they'd talk and that whole process probably took 30, 40 minutes to do that. And then the short one came over and he reached into a box as he was talking to him and he says, "How you feeling?" And I said, "I feel okay, I said I'm a little tired, I have to stop them in a long time." And he reaches in and get one of these gloves and pops it on his hand, you know, immediately thought. "Oh, you know, I wasn't ready for that but I had to participate. That's one thing about military when they're going to do something, they're going to do it, you know?" And so I just kind of, "Okay, well, there we go." And he goes, "Do you mind if I, I need to look at your gums?" I said, "What?" He goes, "I need to, I need to look at your gums." I'd never had braces or cavities or anything in my life. And you know, always, always, I was always good on that point. And so I opened my mouth and this man took his thumb and his index finger and he spent about two, two and a half minutes in my mouth, just squeezing my gums really hard, pressing down against the floor of my jaw inside, thumb up in the roof of the mouth. And he just really just kind of sectored every part of the inside of my mouth all the way back to where I had wisdom teeth at the time, all the way back into my wisdom teeth. And just pressing and pushing and, you know, and he would say something to himself, but I really couldn't make heads or tails of what he was saying. It didn't really speak something like a word that, you know, like, "I see this or I see that." And he, when he stopped, he walked back over to the taagai and they just turned, they're back to me and they were 10 feet away or so, the nurse is standing over there. And then she, they turn around and say something to her and she walks over and she's got a little metal plate about like a tray and it's got two vials honored about that long. And they were, they were a glass, they were, they were a metal, metal vial. And then he goes, he walked back over to me, both of them did, didn't say anything else about my, about my gum at all. I mean, I'm still feeling, you know, I'm still feeling the pressure. It was, he left it in my mouth when he, when he stopped. So I don't know what was coming next, but he goes, he goes, you know, you have a couple, you have some burns on your body and I said, "Excuse me." He goes, "Yeah, you guys, you guys reached something, you grabbed me by the, he goes right up here." He got a little burn right here about this eye and he said, "Look on your hand, you know, I'm like this and, you know, I'm an old Tampa boy." So I know what sun burns like and when you spend time like in the Northwest, you know, long period of time and then you go down to Tampa, Florida and you lay on the beach, you're going to get smoked, man, because that happened to me. But I could feel it when they said that and really felt it more the next day. So he opens up this vial and it had a tool in it. He opens it up and he takes, for, he does the hand first and he takes up sample from over here and then one from over here and it's on the same tool. How is this sample? It's just like a tweezer with a blunt end on it like this and he just kind of go like that. Takes a piece of skin, takes a piece of skin and then he goes and he goes to the next location and he does the same thing, but it's together. I mean, it wasn't the same, that piece of meat was with this piece, I guess. It just put it all together. He just snipped, snipped like that and then he reached up and he put it in that little vial and put a rubber stopper on top of it, laid it down on the trading, got the other one out. And even right here above my eye, he did the same thing and they took, they just took samples. Didn't take blood, didn't take urine, nothing, nothing, didn't take hair sample, nothing. Put it on the file, the nurse came over and picked the stuff up and went over there with it and put it down. They went over and talked for a few more minutes and he said, "Senior Melissa, you can go ahead and get dressed." He says, "We got any questions. We'll let you know." And I said, "Yes, sir?" "You got any questions?" "Yeah. If I go." "Yeah." "I'm sorry." "Yeah." "If you got questions, how rude." "Yeah." "They don't care, man." "Yeah. Now I know. I get it." "They really don't care." "But God." And then they just left, so here I am, you know, putting my stuff back on, my clothes are still wet from the bath I took in the sink. You know, I'm thinking, "How much more is my going to the nurse was gone?" But there's OSI guys who are gone too. There was nobody out there. So I was brutally literally by myself and I walked out the way I came in. And in the hallway, there was a driver for the commander's vehicle. So I saw him and he just, he's an airman, airman first, I think, and I didn't even say anything to him. I just walked out and got in the back seat of the vehicle and I said, "I remember saying something. I don't know what that was all about, but they didn't tell me a damn thing and he didn't say anything at all. Throw me back to the state building, got out. He made sure I went to the commander's office too. It seemed like they wanted really watch everything that I did where I went, you know, in going to these different places where there'd be over to the examination area with the flight surgeons and then back with the commanders office, they didn't want to lose sight of me or something. So I go back in and I got to do the formal report in again now and all those people are staged back in there. This is spectacle. And so I go back in and report in, Colonel's Breaker. He doesn't really tell me to stand at ease, I'm standing there at attention. He says, he gives me a form and a pen and he says, I'm going to put you in this little conference room right here because I want you to write everything that's happened to you and what we've just got everything. He says, I want you to do a full report from when you first saw this thing to being picked up everything, say from A to Z to being here and I said, yes, sir, and I, you know, I felt that wasn't the easy part. What I'd gone through already was the hard part. I still didn't know how I was going to explain this to my wife and the two band-aids on me. And mind you, I should have been in the missile field three days to come in the morning of the fort, come back the morning of the fourth, but I'd only been out one day. That's happened now, back in one day, you know, the next day. And I got band-aids on me, so just small, just this, but the question was going to be asking I knew it and I didn't know how to answer that. But some went in there and I sat down at this oak desk at the end of the, and there's old wooden chairs, oak chairs. I just try to take a mental picture of all these things, you know, because I knew they were going to be important somewhere or another. I don't know, I think to prove myself or something. So I took about the next hour and a half, maybe more, and I printed this whole thing. Oh, in any mistake that you made, you have to line through the word and put an initial on it. You know that. So I wrote from A to Z, the entire incident, Michael Johnson's name, the initial, I even knew the time of the alarm, I mean, everything, all the other information was in the security piece, police blotter at November control. So that would be turned in on the fourth day, unless it was circumvented. They went out there and got it. I don't know. Because each blotter, when we arrived in the missile field, and this is where it really gets me, trying to locate Michael Johnson, everybody's name.
rank and social security number is on that security police blotter. When you first get to the field, that's an entry that for every single person on that site, that information is there. So that is somewhere. And you could locate him by a social security number. I don't care where he is. If he pays taxes in this country, we could find him. But yeah, nope, they arrow or FBI or anybody else they've not done that yet and I've challenged him to do so. So I write this whole thing up. It takes me while and they're still out there. They didn't leave. I don't know if they're drinking coffee, whether they're talking about what they're doing. So I go back out there, go back to his desk, standing from him in attention, hand it to him, put it on his desk. He turns it around. He takes him. He's reading it, looking at it, looking at it, going through it. I mean, fine, two coming. It's this thing's in carbon copy. It's three copies from one page and I had two pages of it. And it's super, super print is small because there's a lot of information there. I wasn't given a copy. I wasn't offered a copy of anything. And once that was done and it's signed, I signed it on the bottom. Have my name, rank, a social security number, everything on that form. He takes it, sits it on his son's side on his right side on his desk. And then he motions over for Captain Jack Reed. He comes over and he's got a form. And that's the part where, I guess, I don't know if we call it a nondisclosure at that time, but they read me the right act and said that everything said within this confines of this room and the people that know about this incident, shall not speak about it to anyone else in any way, fashion or form, including spouses, brothers, sisters, anybody. Only the people in this room shall know about this and the people that are involved with the initial investigation from back in November control. And I agree to it. And I said, just sir, turn it around to me and I'm read pretty much everything I just described there. And I signed it and put my name, rank, and then it was dated and everything. So security number was on it. And I wanted to ask, do I get a copy of that? I didn't, they wouldn't give me a copy of anything. The medical records? No, no copy of any medical records at all. So once they were, were, I guess, pleased with what they had after they read, reviewed, and they did have to go back into the other room while they talked amongst themselves for about 10 or 15 minutes. I came back out and then I reported back to Colonel Spryker and he said, you can, you can call, you know, home or whatever you got to do to, you can go home rest of the day. So that gave me, you know, not only three, those three days, but it gave me an additional three days off, you know, to just ponder this whole thing and get this in my mind because I knew it was going to be people, especially, you know, a wife that I had to explain this to. And then of course, there were friends of mine that I worked with, they're going to have questions. Well, they weren't even allowed to ask me questions. You know, and I didn't see any of them for a long, long period of time because they just keep you separated. And then again, they never sent me back to November control. I went to Kilo control, which was the alternate command post wing security control is the command post for all activities in and around the missile field or are varied all things that do with missiles in the event that CSC such a security control or wing security control. I really want to call it was compromised. Then Kilo control stands in as that control facility and direction because all the supervision and all the officers reside at Kilo control, which is right up next to Wyoming border and as a sister flight to November control. So they had me there and put me with a guy named Mark Wade. We had the same initials. He was a really nice guy and he knew about it. And he was the one that I saw to mutilate cattle with in the Kilo area early one morning about will about 10 AM. We had to sleep on a missile site. Until maintenance team got there and there was an investigation going on with local law enforcement at a corral area where there were two mutilated cattle and we stopped and looked at them. The missing skin, the whole deal trimmed around the mouth area, you know, and I didn't know anything about that. I did know about Linda Molten how to conform at that time or you know, and there was another thing that I want to say is that when all this stuff started going on, that there was a that newspaper or the everybody can't stand to read inquire inquire they were they have people going through all the missile sites, not the sites themselves, but minor malstrom because you know, like what had happened to Robert Salis, you know, at malstrom, you know, in '67, wasn't it? And what had happened at mine odds? They had all these people out trying to gather these stories and we were told, of course, you couldn't talk to anybody. You were told formally, yeah, you don't speak to anybody. Any news media was so ever, and they didn't call it news media. They just said news people at that time. They didn't know a word for media. And so that's where I had to live out the rest of my stay at Ellsworth Air Force base was a key little control with Mark Wade, and which was okay. I just tried to put it all behind me and think that it would never happen again, you know, and it would all be forgotten about, but still the fact always remained that for weeks, I worried about not doing my job was like going to be article 15, or what was going to happen to me, which didn't happen. What's article 15? That's under the uniform code of military justice where they see that you've done something, you know, unscrupulous or illegal, or you just did anything that they don't approve of and you cause damage or hurts you know, there's many of things your hair can be touching your ear and a commander see you and, you know, you're out of 35, 10 standards, you know, like you can't have that beard, you can't have this, and they can article 15 you, it takes to spend your rank for six months, take six or eight hundred dollars from you or more, and it just, you know, you don't make that much money anyway. I mean, they make a lot more now than we did that. They use that threat quite regularly all the time. Yes, or that's how they, that's how they keep you in check. Yeah, you're messed with your pension, messed with your rank, messed with your clearances, everything, everything, it, you know, the, but anyway, about 15, 18 days later, I was at home, my apartment, still wondering the whole time, Chris, where's Michael Johnson? I wanted to speak to that man so badly, I couldn't tell you, and all of a sudden I got this feeling and a knock came upon my door and my, I lived, we lived a Hainesway apartment in Rapid City, and he had taught some guys back in the barracks about where I lived, and sure enough, he came to my apartment, he talked to me about it, and before he arrived, that knock when it came on the door, I knew it was him. Don't have a clue, how's the way I've never been to my apartment before, I've never met him personally like that in civilian clothes. So open door, and I said, Michael, I said, man, how are you? He said, I'm okay, and with the direct look in my eyes, he said, we got to talk about this thing. And I said, yes, we do. I said, come on in. So he came in just a simple one bedroom apartment, and my wife was there, and I said, I said, well, she's going to find, I said, she suspects some things, but what I've been having to go back to the base, and there were several times I had to go back and answer more questions, you know, but I tried to block those out, and it was the same thing, he just kept trying to see if there was something I wouldn't tell them, which there was, and I wouldn't about to tell him anyway. And so he comes in and I said, let's draw what we saw. I said, I gave him a, you know, a yellow note pad, and I had one too, and I said, I'm going to sit here, you sit there, and I think I put him at the dining room table, and I sat at the coffee table at my couch. And I drew the craft, and all that, and all that, and he drew the same thing. He remembered the bright lights. He remembered many things that I didn't even think he was aware of, and I told him, you know, the state that he was in, holding on to that steering wheel. And I remember him saying something like, no, it wasn't. I said, just you weren't. I said, guards, and I had to pull your hands off with that steering wheel. You did? I said, yeah. What was his memory of it? Well, he said that he heard, saw, and smelled everything that I did. And then he heard, do not fear, do not fear. Did he see the beings? No, he didn't turn his head. He didn't say that. But he felt the do not fear. Yeah. Who said this first? Was it you were him? Him. He told you before you told him? Yes. So he's opening up to you, and he's giving you the exact same things that you experienced. And he said, and I felt do not fear. And yes, do not fear. Do not fear. Do not. What was your reaction to that? I just had to do it with my mouth open. I said, you're kidding me. I said, man, I was
freaking out. I said, you were just frozen to the steering wheel. He was, I heard, he goes, I heard and saw, you know, I saw everything. I said, did you see what was on the right side? I mean, no, he never saw that. You told him? Yes, I told him. What was his reaction to that? He didn't really have one. He just suspected it, but he didn't. I guess it was the angle or something, you know, my right side and his left side. I don't know. But he said one thing that floored me, man. To the pits of my stomach, he said, but I remembered your glove on a shiny floor. And I said, what? What are you talking about? A glove on the shiny floor. I had a really specialized pair of gloves that a B 52 bomber pilot gave me my first couple of nights when I was at Elser. When I first was assigned there and I'll stay in the B HQ, which is like the on base hotel. And the rooms there and out single rooms are like shared with bunk beds. There might be 10 or 15 people in there one night. I'll come into the base or there may be one person in there. You know, that kind of thing. Whoever's arriving usually stays there until there's an assignment, you know, or till their rooms are assigned to them and they meet their commanders and people in their divisions the next day, literally. And so he gave me a pair of these aviators gloves. Chris, it came up to about right here now and fit on the outside of your park, but they were like a minute and they had they covered three fingers. Then you had your index finger for trigger control for your whatever your trigger was in an aircraft or on a weapon. And they had a fur backing and they were like a yellow gold color, beautiful glove. My dad had the same ones. You can't even find him today. Yeah, I heard it everywhere for him. And I remember as a kid, we wear them and we just like to snot off our face with the, you know, at the furry side and the cold. Well, that's what it's for. Seriously, it's for that. Just wash it off once a while or maybe not. But I remember your glove on a shiny floor. I had no recollection of a shiny floor. I said, what are you even talking about, dude? Michael, what are you talking about? And he goes, I'm telling you, Mario, your glove was laying, he said it was laying face up this way. Your right hand glove was laying on a shiny floor. And I say, well, I said, the only thing I knew to do, I ran in my bedroom where I kept my ditty bag in the closet because my wife didn't want to see it. You had to be put away. So I grabbed my ditty bag and I came back out and lit room the whole time. And this woman was just sitting over, she's sitting in one of the upright chairs just watching this and listening all this going on. I don't know in disbelief or what it was, but I unaccept that bag, man. And there's, you know, there's underwear of toiletries, there's all kind of stuff. Extra uniforms as a radio in there. He couldn't have cameras, unfortunately. That's one thing they wouldn't allow us to do and or take pictures of anything on the side or something like that. But so I just dumped my bag out on the couch. Everything was there except my right hand glove. The left hand glove was there. No right hand glove. Never recovered that. So I guess they kept it or whoever, whatever kept it. But I couldn't believe he brought that up and he said that to me. I saw your glove on a shiny floor. That's proof. Yeah. He um, he lived in the barracks like I say and uh, he gave me his address that day, his parents' address in Chicago, Illinois. And we talked, you know, talked a radio, he said he loved to fish and we talked about some things like that. I think we didn't get to talk about working together. We didn't get to discuss any of that stuff and usually we all, as guys, we always do, you know, and like motorcycles or, you know, you ride a bicycle or you skate board to play, you know, whatever you might do. You wait, lift, whatever. We didn't get to talk about any of that. But we got to talk about a little bit of it that day. So I wrote it down on a nice index card, something I put it in my Bible. The pastor gave me a little father passed away and I kept it up on a dresser and I had it for years, for years. And he wrote it. He wrote it. I might have recopied it or something, but he, I had all, I had his information. I wish I'd had a social security number and you know, back in that time, a guy would probably give you your social security number and not think two things about it. You know, you can't do that today, of course, but back then it could have done that. I wish I'd have had something else I could have latched onto him later in years because that those thoughts have always been in my mind. What else could I have done to, you know, to wrangle him, to get him back in, if he's still alive, wherever he may be, he's the other half of this whole thing, you know, wherever he is, regardless of who's entwined in this history, he's the other half of this that I've just got to find. I got a friend Steve Swimky and he's in Rapid City and he's the fellow that led me to the state trooper that took the call from wing security control to come and look for us. And that's perhaps something else I should address because I didn't even find that out until that discovery plus in 2021. How long after the initial incident when you blacked out, was that call made? Well, it was made approximately two o'clock in the morning. So not too long after? So you were missing at that point. Yeah, we were missing. And not only that, but wing security control had contacted the local law enforcement in Sturgis. They had a larger police force and they sent two deputies 30 miles north to wherever we were located, looking for us. So we had a state trooper and two deputies and two different cars looking for us. And if you're out there, you'll see somebody. If they're driving in a car, you'll eventually see headlights. Yeah, yeah, you absolutely. There's no way around it. You were, you were just not there. And we were so far off the off the road, but behind New Lake Reservoir Dam to start with, I mean, we just had to be located. And the way to locate us was that radio signaling triangulation. And as you were before that, don't know. But when I was getting out, I didn't find that out until '21 that these officers by the son of this of the state trooper, his son came to November five or a hundred yards down from November five because the producer didn't want to stand where our vehicle was located because there's a cattle, some time about red and white cattle production or storage facility on the on the site now at November five. And do that because there's a rock bed there, and they keep their hay and stuff up off the ground, you know, out of the, been the feet in their feet in their cattle and stuff. Is this all ranching area? But so in essence, we had about 11 people looking for us. And I never knew that. I was never told that a state trooper in two deputies are looking for us as well. He found one what year? I think it was 2021. We're not there with Discovery Plus. And it was totally by total accident that these two guys even showed up watching this film on the side of the road like. And they knew your story. Yeah, they had seen it somewhere before or something. I'm really not sure what one of them had. And he told the other. But it was a crazy thing on Orman Road dirt road. And you can go all the way to Wyoming on that road, I believe. There was a parade of people because you know, knew such a small town, the population today is 6.50. It was 2.30 at the time. And when they found out that there was a film crew out there filming on Orman Road. So we get this big parade of people coming by. And there was one guy drove by in a pickup truck. And he had two by fours in an old pickup truck in the little slots. You know, that's on the bed of the pickup truck around it. And he had chicken wire around it. He had a horse standing up in the middle of the back of that pickup truck. And we all just looked at that one. Wow. You know, it's such a place, man. It's such a place there. You know, there's other people in Newell that saw the craft. I hope there is. And what we thought that there's a there's a case in Newell, though. And like the 60s as well, right? Not sure. I think I read I think I read about a flying saucer sighting multiple flying saucers in the 60s in Newell. And in I will take in a sturgis there is in Deadwood. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Big cylinder type. Oh, okay. Craft. And in both of those areas prior to year. Yeah. But going back to that, I was so amazed. And I found out that these guys knew that that this took place. I just I just feel so jilted by it the way the Air Force ended up by what they did. And or how they did it. I don't think they knew any better. I really don't. And if they did setting if they did then a shame on them for for treating their own people like that, you know, because yeah. When you go in a military regardless of what job you're in, you know, you're there is there's a chance that somewhere along the line that you could be involved in some kind of combat actually in a lose your life. Because you're fine for this country and the people in it. Because you care about them. I do. I still do. I took the oath and now it's never gone away from me. But I'd go back today if they'd had me at 70 years old.
in heartbeat, but just to find those things out, it really floored me at glove on that shiny floor. I've never forgotten that statement. I've never forgotten the ice bullet that he sent out when he said that to me. It just took me a bath. And I just wish so badly that we could find him. Well, if anyone, if this rings a bell, if your family member is named Michael Johnson, if you've got a grandpa out there, father, an uncle, a cousin that's in perhaps the Detroit area or at least has family in the Detroit area and served in the Air Force, Adele's worth in the 70s, late 70s, mid to late 70s. Reach out to us, figure it out. I got an email here. I would love any information you have on this, even if it's the tiniest bit of information. But this is the internet. And you know, luckily with, you know, you on here and people watching, like, there is a chance that you can get an answer to this. Always, just anything. I'm, I just want to know about him, whether he says, I don't want to talk to you or or sure, I don't want to come forward. It kind of reminds me of Terry Lovelace and Toby, his partner, you know, and Toby did not take it well at all from what Terry's told me and ended up costing him his life, you know, whether it be from he, he had a problem afterwards. And it's very hard to to contend with and it's very difficult for people that care about you to hear about it and to experience it because it affects you every day. I'm not the, I'm not the same person at home that I am here telling, telling you this, you know, this thing affects me all the time. I watch stuff on the news. I watch stuff, you know, on, on a TV or YouTube videos, you know, about people that I know that it, that things like this have happened to. And it's all going somewhere. And I think I feel at this point of the game that archaeology and once being discovered in, and say, for instance, Egypt, I think, I think there's a lot to be said for the, and the, in the correlation of all this coming together in some way. And I don't know if we'll, if our government, or any government will ever say, okay, this is what we have, throw it out on the table. Here's this piece. Here's that piece. We gleaned this information. That engine came from this piece right here. That happened. This happened. Here's an individual. Here's different types of individuals. I just don't see them saying that. I think the only way that could ever happen is if they in turn, they themselves just make themselves known and just shut everybody else up. Just say, here we are, what you're going to do now. And I don't think you're coming here to harm us. And I think you've been here a long time already and know everything about us. Well, let's talk about them for a second. You ended up getting regressed hypnotically by Bob Upton. Yvonne Smith, was it? Oh, yeah. Yeah, John. Yeah, John budget boat. That's right. Yeah, two separate, two separate occasions. Now, you know, what's interesting about this is a, like many people, and I've, I've been able to actually hypnotize people through, you know, like entertainment purposes as an addition. Like, I've dabbled there and I've studied it and I have friends who do it professionally for entertainment. It's very real. It's very, yeah. And for someone who, I know the feeling because I've seen it happen to people so many times, the feeling of, oh, you can't hypnotize me. I've seen first hand, and I've, you know, part, part took in this first hand. Yes. Those people getting hypnotized. And, and it is, it is quite shocking to people, especially people who don't really believe in hypnosis. To watch someone you know and trust and love and understand, be hypnotized. Absolutely. You see that and it changes you. It changes. You go, oh, wait a second. Well, he just hit an off switch on him. That's so strange. So you, and I say this because I want to preface, you were that person. You were like, I don't hit, not for me. That's right. Yeah. Could you tell us what happened? Yeah. Robert Upton, Bob Upton, he was trying to zoom in to specific items or points of interest that Robert Hastings had put forth and hypnotizing me. And the way he did it, it just seemed as if I was, as if I was going to sleep. And I remember it because they were roofing my house. You'd meet just after a hurricane. They were re-roofing my house. I had damage. Does that your home? Am I home? Yeah. In my, in my back bedroom. So you could hear all these guys with nail guns and walking across the roof. And even though my roof is very high on my home, you could still hear it. And I thought, well, it's no way to completely hypnotize me with all this. And now it noise going on. And I had a man plan. He had set it up for that particular day. I think you drove up from Jacksonville. They'll live in Brunswick. And there may have been, may have been further away than that. I can't remember yet or I just don't recall. But so anyway, but all this stuff going on, he somehow manages to get me to think. And I'm going down a stairwell or something. He said, into the water. And I kept thinking about that. No, he's correlation to going down a stairway. And you know, like there's a couple of places I've been in my life. I can springs and stuff where you walk down a stairwell into the stairway into the water. Like blue sinks in some of those places. And that's what I did. And before I knew it, I was smelling that smell. And visualizing, you know, certain things that he was asking me questions about. And he was guiding me, you know, in this. And there were things that I came up against, visions that I saw. That really really upset me. Are they coming to you now? Yeah. I answered all of his questions. It was very difficult because I had like a lot closer reaction or proximity to what was on the right side of our vehicle to these to these beings on the right side of vehicle. I mean, I literally knew it was my heartbeat, but um, okay, so he was in control. The little thing was on the other side of the vehicle, the little crap was on the other side of the vehicle. What Michael was? And what was Michael doing? He was still there straight ahead. I mean, thinking completely. I was in a couple of, within a couple of feet of them. They were within a couple of feet of me. And I was on my back. And I had a whole lot of pain in this rift right here. My end was turned outward like this. And I was being grappled in some way here from this direction. And something, something was putting pressure down inside of my wrist here. A tall one was doing that to my right wrist. It's like in and out glipses of a living nightmare. And that smell, that smell just, it just permeate, it just goes through you and you can't, you can't, you can't get rid of it. I knew there was something wrong with me because it seems as if, it seems as if you come up to a, you come up to a, a, a veil of, I want to call it a veil. Like there's something in front of you that stops you from looking past it. That, uh, extremely excites. I don't know, I don't want to call it fear. It's something, it's something that you have to get past to see what's on the other side though. And that's why I called it a veil. And when I did, I felt like I shook myself apart. I felt like I was just shaking, shaking apart inside. And somehow another I managed to get myself into a fib. I'd never had that before, never knew what it was, never, never had any kind of heart issues whatsoever. And, uh, I remember he kept telling me that, you know, nothing could harm me, nothing could harm me, but believe me where I was, everything was harming me or trying to. And then I didn't, I couldn't, I didn't, couldn't understand what I was really experiencing. And I guess after about 45 minutes or so, and I answered every question he said, I went through every question.
question that he asked me, I answered everything as the best I could, but that veil persisted. And when I broke that, when I went through that veil, as I feel as if I did, and saw what I saw, and still see it right now, even looking at you, I still see it, just like it can just push over a vision, and I just see. I just see. I just thought my heart was going to come out of my chest. At no time could you hear any of the stuff going on in my roof, or anything like that that was all the stuff, all the noise that was taking place up there, and all the work was being done. And he got to a point where he felt as if he had to get me out of it. I'd answered everything he asked me. And when he brought me up, I knew there was something wrong, but I did tell him one thing that I think surprised him. And I told him, I said, there's big, there's big dark eyes that these little ones have. They're shields. They're not, they're not their eyes. They're, it's a shield that, that shields them from bright light, because their eyes, I saw around people about that big around, is huge. What color? Blue. Light blue. A medium blue, not light or dark blue, but just a medium blue. And I saw it playing his day. I mean, right there in my face, and that's the thing with, with hypnosis, how it, what it can, how you can do, I guess, how you can bring a vision to you like that. Was that the tall one? No, that was a short one that had the eye thing. The, the tall ones are completely different. And the fear came from coming from that tall guy, whether it's a guy or whatever, I don't know, but that's what the fear is. It's still a little, but the little ones don't make you have that kind of fear, and then they want that, they're not taller than that. They don't think it is, got ready to eat you or something. And then, now, Dan, that you can do about it. You don't have any control of yourself. You have no functionality of your own, or that you can't defend yourself. Structurally. And then the, I think of, I think there was a, there was a male, the one that was, that I cost that or whatever I said that I was, do you cost that to tell me, it's hurt me, you know, and you can move. Yeah. And the other thing was the, this table that, that I was on, for instance, that's my head. This is the table that I felt, and I got a draw that's just right, but looking at it in this way, this was like some type of a field that I was projected this way over my body and my, my hand was up through it, like this. And they were reaching down into this, like some type of a psychic veil or something. I guess on the crack, because it says, if my hands and their atmosphere, and I'm in my own atmosphere, that's something that you could be pulled in and out of, or, or parts of your body moved in and out. Was it invisible? Or was it blue, a blue hue, like a, yeah, it's not, it'd be just like something opaque or no, like glass or gas or projected, almost something that like a field generated in a, and you, you're inside of it, but we know what he was doing, what it, it ended up being a female. I heard a female voice, but you heard a voice. Yeah, just in your ears, you know, in my body. And it was female. There's a female, it was a female voice. No, not, you know, not hurting you or, or not hurting you or something like that. I, I don't know the exact where, but we're not hurting you or we're not hurting you. They never moved their mouths. They talked to you inside. They talked to a child or something. They talked to something that they put in you. It resonates. And then I was, I was cussing and that's what I remember about that. You were yelling physically yelling? I don't know if I was yelling, but I was cussing because I was hurting. Yeah. I was afraid and I was hurting. There's a lot of pain. Do you think, do you think the pain was fear-induced or do you think that it was like real pain? Like real pain, burning real pain in my, in that wrist. And I always think about that. Right now, my hands, I don't know if that's anything to do with anything. My hands are completely numb. And there's other things going on. I do have two marks in my body. The size of the burns. I have two marks. Both of them. One is under my left arm. The other is on my left ankle. I sent you pictures of those also. And I don't have answers for all of it. You know, I really don't. And people can say or think what they want, but I only know what I experienced and what I've gone through. And it's been 48 years ago for me. But there's, there's so much more. There's so much more to the whole thing that it's, it's a, sometimes it's just very difficult to arrange it all to, to, to tell it. It just, and recalling things like this, sometimes more come to back than what I went in with. You know, I pick up more than, then I first started with, and you got to process that. Yeah. Did you, you see Michael? Yeah. And with, um, Yvonne, with Yvonne Smith, um, he was laying opposite to me in, in a direction like he was facing the opposite direction, which I was. And when I talk about this little, the little guy with the blue eyes, he was between both of us. And it was a hand on me right here. And I don't know if that was for a calming effect, but didn't shake in like hell about it right now. But I don't know what that, in mind you, this is hypnosis is extremely, you know, speculative. And I have never, ever said that I've been abducted. I've never said that because I don't know that for real. I only know what visions came into my mind and do hypnosis, but I don't recollect physically of ever being abducted. I know I've had close proximity, and I know I've smelled them. I know I've seen them. But that's as far as I'll go with that. I understand. Yeah. Yvonne Smith, she's very good at what she does. And I think that that's when I learned different things in this hypnosis with about Michael and about seeing the visions that I've seen, because, and I don't even include the dreams that all this, that comes with all of this from the very beginning from within a couple of days of after this whole thing happened, you know, dreams of them or dreams of other things, apocalyptic type things, tidal waves, desert underwater, earthquakes, the sun, blast from the sun, just things that you get nuclear explosions to you. I mean, I even felt a heat from a dream and a nuclear explosion. I've even felt a heat from from a blast of, you know, that would be, you'd be vaporized of course, but I've done that and felt that. But she, when she hypnotized me, we were on, we were on the water on a large boat on a large craft. And it was, and with, on the dock, we're seals and in L.A., right there by, by Long Beach. And they were so loud like barking dogs on an aluminum, on an aluminum, those aluminum floating dogs they have there. And that was the night we, we had, that was a super cold night we had, or they had in Los Angeles when it snowed, even on the Hollywood signs, there was snow and ice. I mean, it went from, I don't know what the temperature was when I first arrived there, but it got cold as I don't know what, man. And then that was when we finished that night, age of disclosure, when I finished filming that. And it was worth, 'cause I had to fly out the next day. So I went with, with, uh, John blitch and then you're on
came down to do this hypnosis for us, but I think being over water had a greater effect than laying on a bed in a home, you know, on concrete versus directly over water because relaxing? Yeah, it was a lot different, seemed like it was more conductive, and her questions were just crisped and clear, there was no, there was anything that was shrouding them in anyway, you know, it just was a whole lot easier for some reason. And I was afraid of Atheb again, because I've been in it a couple of times now, just it just happened from that first initial time then with Bob up to her, but I knew I had a pill, and she was, we didn't record it, she verbally recorded the audio, we didn't have any kind of ability to record it, you know, live, but around camera, and she had this, I had this pill, my doctor had given me amoea at her own, I think, what it's called. And he told me if I ever felt symptoms of Atheb, Dr. Strickland had to take one of these. So I had it with me, and she had it in her hand the whole time, about melted away. It was okay though. And she was super nice lady, and we've talked several times back then, but some of those visions are almost indescribable, the things that have seen you know, as far as like dreams go or apocalyptic stuff, and I just hope none of that ever happens. Do you think that's from them showing that to you? I don't know, I don't know where else could it, it could have come from other than that. I don't know if they put things in your mind, maybe push you in one direction or to think of a cure for something, or were you shown anything on the craft by them? According to the hypnotic regressions and not to your conscious memory. A room with old things in it, like an old essentially a drawing of that old box TV, an old, a, a, raw iron iron, yeah, pole lights that go from the floor to the ceiling, it was like a room of antiques, and I was allowed to go in this room, and on the back wall, there's a, it was a round window, and it had a slice taken out of it, like it was just a slice taken out of a, I'm a round circle, that was a, that was a window, and I was told I could go look out this window by a small, by a small gray, you were told in your head, so made my head, and I'm, I'm kind of laughing about it, I'm, I'm thinking, what are all these old things in here for, you know, this old box TV and a, oh, and an old wooden radio, you know, like real old, and, but I was, I wouldn't look out the window, I was too afraid, and then I started noticing things around me, because I was allowed to stay for just a few minutes or so, and even the walls and the baseboards were powered, everything in it was, was, was like a lie, the shoving had lights in it, much like, but your contra, like those kind of lights, everything had lights in it, was touchable, was energized, everything, there was nothing that was, you know, stagnant, like, uh, like that wall right there, it was all, it all had something, it all had energy, yeah, all had energy, even in the antique room, uh, nothing items themselves, but what, where they were, yes, all of it, the shoving, the, the supports, and, and then as I left there, as I was left, led out of there, by a little guy, I'm walking in this hallway and it's all alive, and an open area opens up, a vast open area that's just huge, and there's just like thousands of them, and, and, uh, like those lights right there, just thousands of them up in these little cubicles, just as far as you could see, and, and right and left and up and down, they were just, everybody was like, ants having a job or something, and I just kept following him, and then I turned left into a room, and the room was full of steam, and I followed him in there, he vanished in the steam, and I followed in there, and I woke up, and I don't know what, I don't know what that was, but, you know, hypnosis again, that's, as a strange thing, and dreams are strange, and I dreamed some really, some really crazy dream sometimes, when, when you think back to the memories or the visions that you got during your regression, do they feel similar to the dreams you had, or do they feel more similar to seeing the beings beside your truck? Oh, it feels real. It feels more like the latter. It feels more like the latter, you know, that's a good question, there's no doubt that before. There's sometimes when I can, when I go to sleep, I can go back into that same part of that dream and continue on, if that's a dream, in that big room, yeah, all of it, I mean, in smell, was the smell present in that room as well? It was, but it wasn't as, as pungent, it was just there, maybe I'd had more time in it or something, and gotten more used to that makes sense. That's what, I have to, I have to straighten these things in my mind, you know, if not, you just might as well lock me up somewhere, I guess, you know, and, and, you know, what I want people to understand is that it's a, if you have a love one at home and you, and you live and, and partake in this field, you have to be very aware of how it affects them. And, I never meant to put anybody through anything that's happened to me, you know, or to, you know, to, I'm not an expert in any of this in any way, but I never, I've never meant to, like, upset my wife or, you know, like, my wife, now she didn't deserve any of this. I didn't tell her to a 1995, and I just, I just ate it and lived with it until I didn't have a clearance anymore. A few clients, I wouldn't, I lost my job at Y-12 facility or actually, I was at K-25 at that time when the big layoffs were occurring, and that's what happened to me. I went out with about 10,000 people, believe it or not. There was that many people in the Oak Ridge area and all of them. At one time, Oak Ridge had more PhDs there than any other place in the country, and now they have all moved in their, or in Los Alamos. And I can't understand how they took Sean Kirkpatrick over to O-R-N-L. I just blows my mind. When I came from there, he, there he is now. I just wish I could, Monday I'll have a chat with him, but that was really bad, how Arrow did that whole thing and that first set of interviews that you had with people. When you, you testified in four Arrow, four hours and 19 minutes. Four hours and 19 minutes, and you said what you said to me? Everything, and then probably some too. Yeah. And of course, it's under oath, per se. Yeah, of course. As they read you a whole lit, litany of things that you have to agree to before you ever do it. And of course, there was always a talk about Congress and that kind of thing. But sure, as I one guy told me, he says, "They're not ready to talk about what you saw at that right side of that window, or any of your dreams or hypnosis," which I wouldn't talk about that anyway. I can only talk about what in the physical conscious world that I saw smelled and experienced. Still too much. Yeah, they can't do it. They want to lighten the sky. Yeah, they just want to lighten the sky at a far distance. Yeah, you know, that's one thing I kind of, but that's not, you know, your fault. No. You know what I mean? That's, you out of all this are like such a brave person for stepping forward for talking about this, knowing full well, full well, you know, what some people might think. And like, there's, there's no good reason to talk about this stuff. No. For anyone coming out, being reluctant, like, I get it, you know, I mean, like, and you get it more than anyone. Like, yeah, what's the point of coming out if the very people who are supposed to fight for transparency are the ones denying, denying flat out that there is any correlation between these nuclear bases and the UFOs, like even that, which is so far from where we are with this story, they're not even willing to go there. Like, you know, it's, it's kind of this, it's aggravating and it must be aggravating for you. It is. It's the same people that told you if we have questions, we'll call you. Yes. What do you mean if you have questions? What about me? What about you? Who's answering those freaking questions? Like, this is unbelievable. The best part about all that they call you and they get you on the phone for an hour, two hours interview on the phone. There's two or three of them and they tell you there's only one guy.
which is BS. One of the best books that's helped me is out of time by Steve Aspin. I know you know who he is and he just wrote a second book and I can't recall a title right now. I got it in my bag in there and I've been reading on it. There is such a correlation with this in time and his book has helped me to think about this because I think the time was displaced where I was or in that vehicle. However, humans can understand that. I honestly felt that there was something to do with time and how they did what they did in the time in which they do it, but they understand that much better than I. But he's brought about a lot of really good ideas and findings in his book out of time which I found a whole lot of correlations in his book as the way I feel and what I think about. The other thing is that when Arrow does these interviews and I don't think they're going to be doing them like they did before I think it's gone way above that now. I just don't think they have incredible ability any longer to talk to anybody because a lot of us felt pretty jilted by that whole by that whole thing, you know. Not only do they want you to testify if they call you before congress, they want you to pay your own way up there, pay your own hotel bill and everything and all associated expenses like you just got an extra you can just go to DC you know how expensive DC is you can just go there with three or four extra thousand dollars that you've got laying around to testify for people they're just going to look at you and say laugh at you or or whatever they're going to do. I don't know, but I sometimes worry that you can say too much because I just I just want the truth to be told I don't want any embellishments I don't want any type of guessing I don't want any type of information concerning myself to be put out there that's not something that I said did or or adhere to and I've had several times where things have been said that I didn't say or that I didn't do and and it just really bothers me that you know and really and I spring this up because one of the guys one of the guys at Arrow that interviewed me or wouldn't it knows congress that interviewed me to go before congress kind of made fun of me and said and I have this name and his phone number and everything and I just I kind of said something to him that I hope it resonated with him but he said we'll just keep don't just keep doing what you're doing he says and we'll let you know when we'd like to hear from you something and that's after we're spent two and a half hours on the telephone my my time is as valuable if not more to me that is then you know then to him I think man where where do you think you're coming from by talking like that to people and that's why a lot of people don't don't want to do that don't want to go before congress or whatever but I think what you're doing here will resonate on a deeper level with the people listening then watching and on a C-SPAN feed I do you know I appreciate that I I just I just want to do the right thing I just I won't answers and as as everybody else wants answers and I'm not trying to put down anybody else to obtain those answers I only know what happened to me and to Michael Johnson more or less until he comes forward and that's all I know to relay you know everything else people are putting out some brilliant publications and books on the subject matter so that's increased everybody's knowledge and we'll and we'll continue to do so and I'm just looking forward to the future and just where this is all going because if if we can just get 10% of the technology that I've seen in my lifetime with with these beings and these craft we wouldn't have polluted skies and polluted grounds and polluted waters and plastic polluting everything and maybe we could just be a better society perhaps we'd have better answers and it wouldn't be as much violence it wouldn't be a whole lot of things when people would have purpose you know whether be a job in a new technology because it'll be all encompassing when it when it finally does make us wait because mankind will shift in my humble opinion when those kind of energies are discovered and if the powers that be are not corrupt and self-serving and enlightens the rest of the world with it think of the potential that we have as a planet and as a civilization to move forward you know well the things that are being discovered in Egypt I I do think they were a classroom civilization prior to whatever happened happened 12,500 years ago whatever calamity took place I think we were I think they were a class one civilization and we're not there yet well by the time this comes out you'll have already gone to Egypt next month how excited are you I can't contain myself my friend yeah a mark a mark is you know just such a generous he is man a soul he's the kindest person I know and he's he's got just the heart of a saint and he's really truly in it for selfless reasons and to help uplift the world into this new sort of era and we need soldiers like him on our side we need more of them there are two few of that that man and he is offered to after hearing your story take you to Egypt to fly you out yeah and that's where his family's from he's got a wild history with Egypt I can't wait don't I can't wait to meet did you see him skydive over the over the pyramids yeah yeah yeah I'm that's Cahoney's man because you probably got in trouble for that I'm I'm kind of sad that I'm not going because I wanted to go and I spoke into Mara about going I spoke to you about going as well yeah I'll be on tour at that moment but you know if anything happens and the tour doesn't happen or what it for whatever reason I'm there man that would be wonderful I'm 100% there I if not just to witness your relationship with Egypt because I know that you know you speak about it and it's you know it's hard to it's hard to talk about these things it's hard enough to talk about these things you know I get your reluctance in not wanting to you know go full on into all of these conspiracies or what it because you have to keep some reality yeah you have to because otherwise your story is just going to get confabulated and get twisted and so you got it you got to stay grounded but I got to stay on course man just keep your ship on course let's do what they will but I want to see the kid inside you I want to see that I want to see you light up when you see Egypt so hopefully Amar is able to capture that my god I don't uh uh and I you know you said he had to have um camera equipment you had to have like a uh 90-day pass or some kind of prerequisite or you had to fill out paper before you can even go there to film oh it's extremely strict I had no idea there's also the museum yeah yeah I'm going to die in a museum oh my gosh it looks so amazing I did get to see toot and common in Denver really yeah I saw the whole display in in Denver wow years ago yeah I know I could have spent 10 days there I'm telling you there is something there's something alive there that we have whether it's alive meaning you know living today or not but there is something that and you've made drawings and had views of that too what's underground there always knew there was something underground and I didn't know because I've never been there but somebody I've been listening to is Jeff Jeffery Drummond different drum not fire he uh he's an investigator there and he I guess he's some type of a scientist that uh he's he's put together an entire uh sequence that all three pyramids performed in function to create lightning and that in turn created lightning storms and energies and kept the Sahara green from what I understand from what I've what I've listened to but he's found piping he's found all kinds of stuff and does a really good job at explaining that stuff it's incredible it's it's a place with such mystery and it draws so many people to it not only the people of Egypt for the people around the world are drawn yeah you know and there are plenty of megalithic impossible structures around the world by the way you know whether it's ballback or all these other places but something about the pyramid draws people towards them and there definitely is more than me to
the eye. I like the idea, a friend of mine, George St. Pierre, UFC fighter. Yeah. He's extremely invested in paleotology and ancient archaeology in the ancient astronaut theories. And he went there. And because, you know, he's pretty big celebrity. Yes. He got this personal tour of the king's chamber. And they, you know, guys with guns and everything. And they blocked off the door for him. And they put him in the sarcophagus. Whatever that is. Yeah. And the guy stood in the corner of the room and just started humming like, oh, like this type of deal. And he goes, I have never felt that type of vibration. And it wasn't loud. It was just your body was thrombing like a tuning fork. Absolutely. And for someone who's left his body, I know what that feels like. Yeah. Like that's the feeling of having, you know, I want, I want, oh, my gosh, do it. I'd like to take a tuning fork. I've got a couple of tuning. Oh, yeah. Do some experiments. See what they do. Yeah. Well, if you ever leave your body, come say hi. I will. You come say hi and be like, what are you doing? I don't know if I'd come back. I thought you, depending on where you go, I guess, I don't know if I'd come back. But do you think there is a relationship between the beings that you saw and Egypt? Yes. You think that that is them? I don't know if it's them exactly, but they know of that technology and in my opinion. And they know which true function. Or functions, I should say. There's an interesting, also an interesting correlation. There are few interesting correlations. Obviously, you know, the smell, you know, we didn't really touch on, but like, you know, since you've probably come across a lot of similar cases that have said the same thing with the ammonia sulfur smell. Yes. For instance, I'm reminded, I think the most famous case of which other than Whitley Streiber, because he also had like burnt hair, cardboard smell, like this putrid sort of scent. But James Fox is documentaries in Virginia. Yeah, yeah, with these beings. What was that like hearing about that? Oh, that was Brazil, right? Yeah, that's Brazil. I just the whole town stumped up. Yeah, and they were seen. I mean, that's the thing about they were seeing. How do they, how do they push that up so quickly? How was that? Just put under wraps so quickly. How can the government, anybody else move on that? Because many people saw hundreds, but these be, I mean, yeah, I saw them and how's that stopped? How can it be our cell phones collected or cameras collected? They search homes. How do they slow that down? But it brings me back, honestly, to 1961, but everybody saw those three craft above that, those church steeples, a dequeen elementary, and nobody talked about it. Like I was like, "Forgot about it." I seem to say we're gone. It's all over. There was nothing else to talk about all day, the rest of the week. My mother didn't even really mention it any, any further. How's that happened? It's a good question. It's a great question. I love to know. How's that happened? I think about it all the time. I think, well, wouldn't that talk about all day long? Well, where's the newspaper clippings? Because, people always read the newspapers back in '60s. It wasn't the news like we had the day. Well, news there was. It was pretty real news. You had Walter Cronkite, all the rest of them. You would have had to. It's either one of two options. It's either somehow the beings or the technology is responsible for that within that bubble or whatever that is, or there's a psychological factor that just happens when your face was something so foreign. I'm reminded of James Fox once again, out of the blue, where he had the phoenix life sort of fly over this town and there's this story of these ladies having tea and they're just having tea and all of a sudden they're looking at this craft fly over this massive craft. Yeah, it was huge. Going right over them so slowly and they all just silently watch it go by and the second it's out of you they go right back to drinking tea and you go what? What do you mean? How would you not scream, run and the truth is grab a camera take off in a car after it. Yeah, there's it there's I'm reminded of a movie I forget what the movie is but there's this one really shocking scene that there's this elderly couple they're sitting in their backyard and behind them the cameras facing them behind them you see a like Boeing 747 or something coming towards them very small but it starts getting bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger and eventually when it's like kind of like maybe that big in the sky big enough to be like what's going on they get up and they both and you see them both looking at this object getting bigger and bigger as it gets close to them and they're just staring at it and disbelief thinking what's going on like what is that thing and not until it was too late did they go and start moving away and then they got hit yeah it was like they were frozen watching it and I said to myself you know that's probably how it would really happen you wouldn't run and scream and wake up your neighbors and be like we got to go the plane's going to crash you would stare at it until it hit you right in the face yeah you really yeah that because you're wondering what the hell am I looking at mm-hmm so I know what you're looking at when you realize what you're seeing yeah and I would put on a damn t-shirt because that that's that moment that moment in time for me it as I said it really wasn't when I realized what I was looking at it's when I really just went really large what crap crap and what's described the craft and when you realize was that realization oh my god aliens yeah was that the realization and then yeah just beings from elsewhere just beings I don't even call them aliens I'll just I can just call them other people yeah other people other beings is what I thought you're safe now Mary oh we're just looking at a movie I mean that must be such an eye-opening experience of like oh my god it's all true oh my god everything is true it's all true they exist they're here you know it's that approach from where they were and how they got they never they weren't touching the ground man they were just gliding they weren't on the ground they were just all there was no heads going up down as you see you know you it was no it was no bobbing and weaving like you'd have an aligned formation of soldiers marching it was just straight on just straight on just in the tall and you know he had he had this thing on his chest that was the same color as this as that the wand one that was in that one what color was that wand the tip of it was like a like a yellow like a bright orange yellow and the rest of it I couldn't see the road it wasn't it was just that that piece was lit up on the end of it and then but his chest it that thing on his chest was lit up and it was a good size it wasn't just a little thing it was like that size on this on his chest and it was the same color as that as that thing was it circular no it was shaped like a like a I guess like an octagon like a stop sign okay similar to that and maybe not the exact same but it was twisted in kind of that way and then the their heads were down here and he was this much taller than they were so he was two feet or so taller than then the smaller than the smaller ones and they weren't gray gray they had like a purplish tent to them in some way their head their head their head their what I could see is flesh or whatever the outer color of their body is it wasn't wasn't gray it was a no this color is not that far off and I'm color blind so it just helped me out here but is it because of did their skin look like it was thin yes and like bruise almost no just just real thin like you could almost see the veins through their yeah or see or anything through it and that's why it might have been sort of blue colored almost like possibly possibly they they were just real different colored and the tall one was he was a gray color a gray silver color and like a solid gray yeah and it's the facial structure was a whole lot different much prettier chance longer yeah and the eyes were like set a little bit higher but not not traditional almond shaped eyes they were just different they weren't as they weren't long this way they were just an almond shape but they weren't taller like up facing upwards yeah they weren't like they weren't like they weren't like that right there they were just they were smaller smaller eyes with not that angular shape on them at the end like this they were they were more rounded that way okay I had a little shape to them but it was just different but I didn't I wouldn't worry about him I'm worried about that the little one it's just like I was told to look at that one I was told to look at that look at that look at that look at that look at that you were told to that's what I feel I don't remember any words I remember [BLANK_AUDIO]
not fear, do not fear, but I kept looking at that. And you know, I pull it behind a car today in a vehicle, in my vehicle or something or on my motorcycle and I just have to be real careful not to look at a light for too long because that memory comes back to me all the time. That image comes back to me daily. I noticed yesterday at the restaurant it happened. Like there was a, there was a jug of, uh, I was like, yeah, stainless steel jug. It was a, it was like polished chrome. Yeah. And you, you had to get a mid conversation to just turn the jug. Yeah, it was reflecting. It was right inside of my, and I, and I can't sleep with anything like these lights. I can't, that has to, I put, I put tape over it. It's a trigger. Yeah. Anything like that. Wow. Anything. And it is just so strange, you know, the, the whole thing who would have ever thought growing up, you know, from a youngster to, uh, to a man that you'd see something like that in your lifetime and, and just have to just deal with it. I couldn't think of a better person to, to, to hold this because it takes someone strong Mario. It does take someone really strong to be able to, to live with this and to talk about it. But you're also someone, like I said, you're, you've got such a sharp recall. You are on a program that tested you regularly for your mental faculties. You are, like there is, in my opinion, no better person than to, than to speak about this than you. I, I, I firmly, I firmly believe that there are a lot of people out there that are really credible, that have their stories. But I think you provide something that no one else has provided so far. And it's the level of conscious detail plus the credible, the, the sort of credible background that comes, that comes with it. And for Congress to even ignore that, they won't, I mean, I hope not. But for them to ignore it as long as they have, tells me that, you know, there's, there's some part of that system that's acting out of bad faith. Yeah. I call Timberkets office and got some guy on the phone one day and I told him I said, look, I used to work at Y-12. I said, at NK-25, I've been in the lab plenty of times. And I said, though, Perkett had put out something about, you know, if there was something that you needed to tell him concerning this measure, you know, to, to let him know. And I was, I was talking to him, no, no, I mean, I know where he lives now. I think Marivill's where he lives. And I lived over in Kingston or living in Haramon, actually. We did. And, uh, I called her twice. Never heard a word back from anybody over there. And, and that's okay, too, you know, it really, you can't, they have to come to you. You can't, you can't go to them. It, it just seems that way. And I'm just going to, I'll just let it ride until they try and do come in. And, and of course, that Lieutenant Colonel, I spoke with that arrow when he interviewed me. That was a really strange thing. It seemed like a real nice guy and, and, uh, he's an army, I guess army and elegance. And, uh, he said something that, uh, he goes, well, you know, he said, you were one of the only ones that you were actually on duty responding to an incident when this happened to a, to a, to alarm when this happened. So it's not a story. It's an incident. And I said, you know, I ever thought about that, but you're right. And I said, well, who else has done it? He says, I can't think of any. So that's one thing they have to, they have to separate. I mean, it actually happened on duty. And, for people that, that really want to know about this stuff, I just don't understand. And I, one of my best buddies in the world is an F4 pilot. And, uh, we were at Moody Air Force Base together and even shared a house downtown in, in Valdosta together for a while. And, uh, you know, pilots are super great people, man. I do anything for pilot. And he got me in the F4 simulator all the time. And then I, I'd live my life on that simulator every time I fly jet, uh, damn true or cry or crash, trying but no G suit. You know, you can't get about 10,000 feet because you got to breathe. And, uh, of course, uh, I could never land the damn thing. So, so my thought was, if, you know, if I was in a, you know, in something, you know, of course, that was an F4. That's not an F16 F 15, 22 or the rest of them today. I have no idea about them, but I'd sure like to, uh, but I always figured if something happened and I could get to, get to it, crank it out, you know, with a, with a ground power unit and had a fuel in it, at least I could take off. And of course, punch out to get out of a combat area. That's, you know, because I guess when we, when we left Vietnam, there were a fours on the tarmac and they had to blow them up, you know, and there's a lot of security policemen that actual Air Force security policemen that died, defending a runway of our pilots and civilians got off in, uh, aircraft, you know, because when they overran the whole place, you know, but there was some people lost their lives there that just thought I'd maybe have a chance if that would happen ever. So you got to think about that's probably plan B, you know, yeah. But I'd like to, um, I'd like to also say that people in Congress just need to have a little more open mind. And they need to, they really need to talk to people that have a close and personal experiences with this. This is not something that passed by me at 1500 miles an hour or, uh, was off in the far distance in any way. And like I said, I love all, all my pilots. I love those guys, man, Navy Air Force Marines. I don't care. I, they're great guys, man. Teeth, you know, teeth with bugs in it and hair on fire. And they're just dead going full speed ahead, man. I like that. Well, what happened that night in November 5 was up close and absolute personal. And, uh, no matter whether they ever hear me or not, I live with that. And I know what I saw. I know what I smelled. And I know what I experienced. And there's another guy out there just like me and then it's up to them to find him. I told the FBI interview with the FBI here a few months back, about seven or eight hours with them on the phone, even interviewed my sister done in Florida about our incident. We saw in poor author Texas kids. And my sister has seen two tick tax in where she lives near date city, Florida. Yeah. And they even ask her about that. It's, it's good for her. She, uh, that really made her feel good, you know. But, um, I would just, I would just honestly like to see them really investigate this. I don't know what military forces are, or, personnel are blocking Congress. The people we elect and pay to find these answers for us. And the people that are in the military or all the services or the CIA or the NSA or the FBI, they have to be held accountable. Somebody's got to answer these questions. And, you know, it's a dead gum shame is a president only gets four years or reelection for four more years. But yet a lot of these centers and all in a lot, what people, they stay in there for a lifetime. So what kind of power did they develop? How unfair is that? To the, to the rest of society because they believe they believe they're entitled to what they're doing today to keep secrets from all of us. And that's, that's entirely wrong. We pay those people. Yeah. I feel like, um, a lot of this stuff is going to come. It's going to be grassroots. It's going to be from the ground up. It's going to come from the little guy. And I think that's the way it has to happen. Because, you know, that's, that's all we've got at the end of the day. We can't, we can't trust them all. No, we got to trust. We got to, you know, stick together and keep telling these stories. Um, just like you're doing today. Um, I also wanted, one last thing I wanted to touch on before we go. The do not fear. Now that not only resonates with every experiencer who's had close contact because they also have heard that in one form or another or sometimes like we are you, you are we, this type of, you know, rhetoric. But also if you look in, and I'm, I'm not a religious guy. I know you mentioned you had a Bible and, and, you know, I, I, I'm okay with religion, I think. Yeah, sure. Um, but in the Bible, they do mention this. Three hundred sixty five times. Do not fear. Do not fear. The angels, the seraphim. Yes. These visitations. The first thing they say. Do not fear. Do not fear. Amen. Yep. You already made that connection. Oh, absolutely. Yeah. Do you think historically what people are referring to in the Bible are these beings? I think it's very close. I totally believe in God. I believe in Jesus. I, I, I believe the Bible. And however we perceive that in each of us is the story. It will We'll take a look.
from it. So what I can say to shouldn't influence anybody else has got to be within each individual, and I'm sure at the end of my lifespan when I'm gassing the last breath of air, I'm pretty certain I'll be calling on him. Whether a person believes or not or they're involved in an accident or die naturally of natural causes, they still call on him. Do you think they're demons? No. No. There are such things. Evil forces out there. Yeah. But not these things. No. Not these things. What would you say to people who dismiss them as demons? What would you tell them as someone who does believe in God and believe in the Bible? What would you say to these people? Because I think they need to hear it too. I don't think it should be a separation. In my humble opinion, if you ever think that we are a hall that ever has been or ever will be, and all that vastness is right above our head and the continuation of thought forever, and we're all that we're all that's out here. You just fooling yourself. Because it's we're made of star material. God put that together in my opinion and sent it to where it could be used, or placed us here in ways in which He wanted us to be out. That's all I know to say. And again, you've got to be very careful in how you address that because people are going to make opinions of it. There's nobody I don't care for. And when people do good things, good things happen. And I just think down deep, I think there's good and everybody. And they just have to let it out, you know, just have to live that for each other, I believe. But there are those that don't, unfortunately, but that's just my thought. And it's a very deep subject. All right, Mario. Are you? Do you want to take a break? Do I have questions from the audience? Just a few. Do you feel like you can get through them? Do you want to take a little break here? I'm good, man. I'm all right. All right. We'll go up. I've done okay. You're incredible. Stop. You're amazing. This has been one of the most amazing conversations I've I've ever had in doing this. So yeah, thank you. Yeah, I'll be right back. I'm going to turn that camera on and we're going to get to some audience questions. Okay. All right. We got some questions here from the audience. Sure. And they've always got good questions. And if you're a member here, one of the perks, as many of you know, is getting to have the potential or to ask our audience, ask our guest a question. And I usually choose three. And we're going to see maybe we'll answer a few of them here. You know, there are times when I've walked in rooms and the lights flicker. And then I was at my oral surgeon's office. And they were doing the scan, you know, of my mouth. And that piece of equipment is really high dollar. And once they scanned it, it wouldn't play it back. Well, when you called me earlier, right before you called, and I mean, three seconds before you called the lights flickered in my office. And I was like, that's probably windy. It's probably like a thunderstorm. I go outside to be able to day. Okay. Interesting. I'm going to tell you one more thing too real quick. My son was with me this day about eight months ago. Got on my truck. He was visiting. Got on my little hundred bridge lines, what a drive. Pull up the driveway. Got out. And I have over an acre where I live. And there's a zeal, your bushes and all this stuff around, all around my house, you know. Anyway, I was walking toward the garage. Not a breath of air in the blowing or nothing. And all of a sudden this freaking zeal, your bush man just started doing this. And he goes, Dad, that's another thing when you talk about 2017, December 17, 2017. That's something that happened to, you know, in my room. I don't know what it was for or what happened, but that's when I woke up standing at the foot of my bed. Oh, yeah. That we need to talk about that. But all the low voltage, you know what a low voltage alarm is? Look on your microwave, your stove, your refrigerator, all these items, your AC units have them. And all these low voltage alarms of my home were going off. And it was four, 11, 4, 11 a.m. And my son burst through through my room, through my door, my room, because he's just the room over. And he said, "Dad, what's going on?" As soon as he said that, I opened my eyes and I'm standing at the foot of my bed looking at the north wall in my house. And I said, "What's all those alarms?" He goes, "Dad, I don't know." And all the lights were like real low. I lost the leg of power to my house. So everything was up, I don't know what that voltage is. But everything was reduced. And the lights were just barely on. And what was on, like above the stove and that kind of small lights were just flickering. Like they were just turned way down. And nothing saw any kind of a demo control or nothing. And so I went through the house and out there, these low voltage alarms sound on this equipment, on your washer, dryer, and all that stuff for a while. Then if I only turn off, I guess, I don't know, because the power never came back on. But I told him, "I don't know what happened." So then I said, "I guess I'll call George a power one and wake up." So I said, "It was about quarter to eight in the morning." He opened my door and he says, "Dad," he goes, "George a power's out here." And I said, "Really?" I said, "I didn't call him." He goes, "Hmm." He goes, "Well, they're out there in the yard as a bunch of them." I said, "No kidding." And I said, "I live off the road by like 150 feet." So I got dressed real quick, and I was off that day. So I walked out there and I said, "Hey, how you doing, man?" And he was in this, between some countries, in my yard, in about, they were in about 40 feet, trying to find where the brake was in that line. I had no idea what he was even looking for. And he goes, "You Mr. Woods?" And I said, "Yes, sir." He goes, "Well, I put a tied-in, a jumper transformer, it's on your back deck by your trash can." And I said, "What?" I said, "What happened?" He goes, "I don't know what happened." He said, "But you lit up our board downtown like the 4th of July this morning at 4.11 a.m." And I said, "Well, what about the resident neighborhood, a day out of power?" I said, "Because all my stuff is like, it's working right now, but it was working because he put that jumper and it wasn't working up to that point." And my wife was asleep, she had no idea. Any of this, any of this taking place, you know? December 17, 2017 is what had happened. And so anyway, he got to ask me questions and I said, "He goes, were you running any kind of equipment or something high voltage equipment, a welder or something?" And I said, "I don't even own a welder, man. I don't want everything else, but no, I don't have anything like that." And he goes, "Anything on the 220 level?" And I said, "No, sir." I said, "My well is, you know, I have a well, and I said, I have a dryer and all that stuff, that all pulls 220." And he goes, "Well, I don't know either." He said, "I just know, yours is the only house that's affected and it messed it, blew my computer up, my doorbell system. Yeah, a microwave oven, two oven, only one oven went, something else, a micro-roge." Well, it may have been something, but I might explain the split flap not working here behind me. It's not working. I got to probably reboot it or whatever, so we can't get to it. I have a question. This whole thing, December 17th, 2017, I call Robert Hastings right away when I found all this help. And after my son burst through my room and I had this hole in the wall, it sparks on the end of it, like some kind of an opening or something, I couldn't explain it, and I don't really know what I saw, and I was standing at the edge of my bed. It was like a portal, like a portal. Because you described to me in the Marvel movies. Just like that one. Thanos raised the fist and shot back through this dead gun portal. Just like that. I even thought that when I when I said that, and I don't have full recollection of seeing that. I just know, you know, visions of anything. You know that in magic, but so after I meet the supervisor in my yard, and he's telling me, but his jumper transformer, which I have pictures of on my back deck, out beside my garage, and I had not even seen it yet. I walked back there with him to look at it, and he showed me, said, "I'll come get it as soon as I put a new line down." So a couple of everything was done, taken care of, and I did have some things that were toasted, and I had to get real to often buy new again. But a couple of weeks later, one of the neighbors, teenagers, my son, and he used to play around together when they were kids shooting bows and arrows and BB guns and stuff. He came by and he said, "Hey, Mr. Woods," he says, "What was all those lights in your backyard?" The other night, and I said, "What?"
I didn't know what he's talking about. I said, "What are you talking about?" And he goes, "They look like Hollywood search likes in your backyard at four o'clock in the morning." And I said, "You got to be kidding me." I said, "You know, I've just got six lights back there on the corners of the house, right? Regular 150 watt spotlight, right?" And he goes, "I don't know what they were, he said, but they were super huge and bright." And he said, "I was on my way to work." And he just drove off. And I just shook my head, thinking, "What in the heck, man, is all that, is that, you know? I just, it just blew my mind and one other thing I want to go back to real quick is, right after my sighting and experience, and the Wimber 5, it wasn't long at all when Close Encounters or Third Young came out. Oh wow. I think it came out in December, didn't it? Of '77. Of '77? Yep. I'm November. Wow. Of '77. Wow. Can you take that connection? So I took my, took my wife to go see it, see it. And there was a lot of things in there that I saw that I was picking up on, and anyway, where Roy Neary comes upon, when they're out there, when he's out with that map in his pickup truck and he got the flashlight in his mouth, and also the mailbox of Star Shaken. And of course, that's Hollywood excitement drama, but when that crowd came upon him and put that light on him, it seemed like it, it did something to him, it seemed as if it got his attention and almost shocked him in a way that through that light something was imparted, a knowledge or a feeling or something that he had to go after and it was peer-middled in shape or that shape of the devil's tower at that time. When that happened to him, when that mailbox started shaking and that light came down on that man, I didn't see the end of that sequence because I jumped up out of that theater in Rapid City on Main Street and I hauled my butt out to the curb where I just had to gather myself and I left my wife sitting there. So, and when she came out there to me, I just said I feel like they're telling my life story there. That's what I told her. I said I feel like they're just telling my life story in that movie and I can't watch that right now. There's a month after. Yes, sir. Him floating in the car with the object sort of like lifting in the car right when that light. Same, same thing. So tell me Steven Spielberg doesn't have some type of inside information because I thoroughly believe he does. Absolutely believe he does. Are you going to go see the new one? Absolutely. Disclosure day? I'll buy it. Yeah. I'll buy it. I'll go see it with you if we're in the same part of the world. Love it, man. I would absolutely love that. That would be fantastic. But I just had to get that in there because it's that's important because I felt that very same way that he looked and looking upon myself, you know, it's given me introspect. You know, I even think about that craft over November 5 and November 5. Not just the size, but the proximity or not proximity. The closeness of that, they could have gone it nine other sites all twice to three times as far as November 5 was. How did they know that that launch control facility was even, even somehow monitored at that missile site? How would they know that? How would, how could they know that we would respond to an alarm there? And I mean, do they just, they sit up there and they can just see all this? Do they see the connections underground? Tell me, what's their visual aspect of me flipping those sight lights at them? And from where they're located, in which by the way, all said and done, when I plotted it on Google Earth, the member control or November 1, November 5 to New Lake Reservoir Damace of Pythagorean Triangle, and I actually believe they were over New Lake Reservoir Dam when I first saw them. That's why I think that craft was over that, where they, and where they dropped you? Over that dams where I think they were initially and then I ended up back there. I'm just, that's total regulation. But there's something that doesn't make sense as to where they were when I saw them to what occurred at November 5, to where I ended up at the back of New Lake Reservoir Dam with Michael Johnson. So I just wanted to say that, but yeah, drawing it on looking at it on a, on a US map, I mean that is a really strange angle how that, and it all encompasses about 23 and a half miles because it's seven and a half miles to November 5 from November 1, and then it was nine and a half miles to New Lake Reservoir Dam, but probably 79. So I just wanted to, I just wanted to bring that up. Yeah, it's an interesting, yeah, point of connection. I try to look at all these different aspects of it. Another interesting synchronicity is that November 5 is the same day that Travis Walton got taken. November 5, really? Yeah. In 1975. So two years prior. So that November 5 is really interesting. When I do believe the November 5 is also when Baldozar went to George Napp. In November the 5th? Yeah, 89. Wow. So just other synchronicities there. Yeah. Anyway, I'm just, the whole thing is just unreal, just the whole 48 years of it, literally. Well, I'm glad that you're here to tell the story. Thank you for having me. Thank you. Well, I would love to get to some of these, but this thing's behave and wonky. Is it related? I mean, your guess is good as mine. I will, I will ask one of the questions here just because, you know, you guys, and slug your question here was, what do you want other military witnesses who are still silent to know? I would help them in any way possible. They could email me anything they'd like to say would never be divulged or sent out to anybody else ever. If you just need someone to talk to about it, I'll be more than happy to listen to you or you can email me at
[email protected] and I'll be happy to answer you. It may take me a little while to get to it, it usually does after some time for cash. I always put my email out there for people. So, but I would be happy to help you in any way fashion reform. And if you don't feel like reaching out, just sit down and take a full collection of yourself, take some deep breaths and just know that you're not alone. And if you do reach out to somebody who helps, somebody will help you and not everybody will talk about you and nobody will ever make you feel bad. If you need to reach out for any reason, there are good people in this field that can help you and you may know some other than myself or even Chris or anybody else, just don't lock yourself up. Don't take it out on your family and level with your wives. Don't hide that, don't ever hide it because it comes out in other ways and you have no control and inevitably it's an emotion that we just can't keep in check yet. So, serve yourself well, just know people care and if you want to reach out, reach out. Well, I appreciate that and you're about to have a full time job answering emails. I suspect after this podcast, Mario, I want to thank you so much for your candor just opening up, being so open is really, really much needed and it takes a lot of bravery and a lot of courage, a lot of a lot of, I mean, a lot of the X factor that you seem to have some very, very thankful that you came forward with this and I wish you nothing but the best in Egypt and I can't wait to hear about your adventures. And if there's anything at all that you need from me, you just let me know. You know, I will and I really appreciate that, Chris. You're awesome, but awesome.
PodcastTranscript AI