He Encountered Beings at the Nuclear Missile Facility - Mario Woods | ep. 94

But he said one thing that floored me, man, to the pits of my stomach. He said, but I remember your glove on a shiny floor. Mario, let's back off again. I answered all of his questions. It was very difficult because I had like a lot closer reaction or proximity to what was on the right side of our vehicle, to these beings on the right side of the vehicle. I mean, I literally. I mean, it was my heartbeat, but. Okay, so he was in control. So how tall was the tall one? He was 6'1". He was different. The little guys didn't bother me like he did. When I realized what I was looking at is when I really just went. Some of those visions are almost indescribable. Really large what? Craft. Craft. And when you realize, was that realization, oh my God, aliens? Yeah. What happened that night on November 5th was up close and absolute personal. And no matter whether they ever hear me or not, I live with that. Whenever I was 13, I woke up in my bedroom because my light turned on and it just flicked right on. I was the only one in the house besides my mom who was in the bedroom down the hall and she was asleep, positive, I could hear her snoring. And then after my light turned on, my door started opening by itself. I thought, but actually then I saw a hand on the door. It had long fingers, very thin hand. And I thought I was having a nightmare, but then I was pinching myself and slapping myself and I realized I am not asleep. And I saw how thin its arm was and I got freaked out. I was like shocked. I was very scared. I was on my futon. I tried to stand up. It was really hard to do, but whenever I stood up, it felt like I was pushing against a force that was trying to, like, hold me down. And then whenever I saw its face and its body, it was about my height. And I was about five foot nine is skinny gray, you know, big head, almond eyes, slit mouth, two little holes on the nose. And yeah, it started coming toward me. And I remember thinking I'm going to hit him right in the head. And as soon as I started thinking that I heard in my head, no, you won't. And it started walking toward me very slowly. And the closer it got, the more I couldn't like move actually had a fist and I was pulling it up in the air, trying to come at him. And then I thought I'm going to hit him and then I'm going to elbow him. And he said, no, you're not. And it got really close and it tapped me on the forehead very slowly. And as soon as he did, I felt electrocuted, like vibrating like crazy. And then everything went black. This is such a great set to trip, right? Yeah, it is. What'd you, when you got here, I'm sorry. I'm going to shut my phone off here. Yeah. Mine's in there. I don't have it with me. I don't want it in here with me. Um, boom, done, no more disturbances. It'll have to wait. If the world burns, it'll just have to burn. Let it burn. Do you doodle a lot? Uh, sometimes. Yeah. I, I, it's, it's more, more like, um, you know, like Mayan figurines and stuff. Oh yeah. You know? It's just something I do. Do you do that before? Yeah. I mean, before it happened. Yeah. Before 70, what, 77? Yeah, I really didn't. Sometimes I'll just do a whole page. Really? Oh yeah. I'll just do a whole page and it doesn't really make any sense to anybody. It doesn't even make sense to me. I just had to put these designs in, you know, and just cathartic. Yeah. Just following stuff. Give me a sec, Mario. I forgot my notes. I'm going to grab those. Oh, okay. Yeah. Hmm. I find myself doodling sometimes as well. Oh yeah. Got to man, got to. It's fun. There's a tactile sort of compulsion sometimes that you gotta just, I do it while I'm editing and I'm waiting for something to render. I'll just mindlessly doodle. Um, all right. You ready to get started? Yeah. I guess when I think about it, I don't do as well as I do, but I don't think about it, so I'll just leave that right now. You can leave wherever you want. You can doodle. We can spend this whole time doodling. Whoa. Um, ladies and gentlemen, today I'm joined by former USAF, uh, security responder, uh, your position exactly was a security, it was police, right? Yeah. Security police. Security police. Uh, folks, this is Mario Woods. Now he's been featured on multiple podcasts. His story has been talked about. It's an incredible, incredible story about not only his encounter, uh, one of the most incredible encounters I've ever come across. Um, at Ellsworth Air Force Base in 1977. Correct. And, uh, it's, I mean, for so many reasons, Mario, you're just, you're a wealth of knowledge. You're someone with the sharpest memory and recall that I've ever spoken to. We spent some time at dinner last night and you're rattling off dates and numbers. Like I have, I've got a notepad here. You're just making sure that I say the right thing, but your memory is incredible. And we're going to get into that because there's also a whole sort of, um, rigorous discipline around someone working around these sensitive nuclear sites that you have to abide by the, uh, the personal reliability program or PRP, which is, you know, a whole thing that, uh, folks like yourself have to subject themselves to in order to be mentally stable in order to be able to be mentally stable in order to be mentally stable enough to work around these things. Which makes you, sir, in my opinion, one of the most credible witnesses to the UFO contact phenomenon that, uh, I've ever had the honor of speaking to. So thank you for joining me today. Thank you. It's an absolute honor to be here. I love your set. I just can't believe the work you've done and it all means such good things. You know, really, we need to know, and we need to set up for these things, just like what you've done. I just, it's incredible just to see what you've done here. Well, I appreciate it. I appreciate it. And having me. Thank you. Mario, you mind pulling your chair in just a little bit? Sure, sure. Just want to get you close to the microphone. You got such a lovely voice. Don't, don't be shy. All right. You got to, if all else fails, you got a disc jockey somewhere within you in a previous life, I think, or something. I don't know. You got a really good voice for, uh, for radio. Unlike myself. I've got a face for radio. No, you do have a voice. You do have a voice. Yeah. Well, it comes naturally to you, sir. So, I do want to get into. Obviously, what happened alongside, is it, um, Michael Johnson? Michael Johnson, correct. On that event, that faithful night in November, November 18th, 1977. But prior to that, I want to take you back to your childhood. And I want to start there. I want to see if there's anything to glean from, you know, your childhood. Do you remember having vivid encounters or strange dreams or just occurrences? Not only with you, but with your direct family members as a child. What's something that stands out? Uh, well, 1961, uh, my mother was taking me to school at Dequeen Elementary in Port Arthur, Texas. And my sister was in the backseat. She was four. Uh, I was six. Uh, I think just turned six. I think as the school year starts, you know, like in August, I turned six in September. And, um, anyway, as we approach the school, uh, on Dequeen. Dequeen Boulevard, which is still there today. I've been back and looked at it and just sat there in awe from what I saw that morning. And we were about the fifth car back in line. And as to the drop off point, you know, I'm just a young kid, not thinking anything, just doing my thing, going to first grade. And, uh, all of a sudden my mother in the driver's seat, of course, she goes, look, Anthony, there's flying saucers, just as we were talking, just plain as day. And I went, where? I remember saying that, where? And I leaned forward and I grabbed the dashboard because back then, you know, we didn't have seatbelts like there are today. And we were in a, I think we were in an Impala station wagon. Oh, plenty of playing room back there. Yeah. My sister was in the backseat and, uh, behind my mom. And she said, right there, look, she looked pointed to her left. So I leaned over toward where she was. And as I did, I could see three craft and they were only maybe five. 50 feet, 75 max in the air. And they were directly over this church that is now gone. And it had three steeples over the, you know, below these craft. And they were the most beautiful white silver saucers with a dome on top and a dome on bottom and the light going around the center outermost rim of it. Like a glass dome? No, no, no. Same color, white, silver. Okay. As the rest of the craft, the only color difference was where these lights that went around them. And they were all in, they were synchronous on all three craft and i was just like wow i mean i don't even have words for what we were seeing basically and my mom she popped the door open and when she did i went behind her and my sister she did say in the back seat she goes mom i'm scared my mother said quote she goes don't worry honey they're not here to hurt you whoa plain as day i'll never forget that statement my mother's been passed many years and uh never forgotten that and so when she got out i just went across the seat right behind her and grabbed her by the hand and my sister opened or she opened my sister's door and she got out and she grabbed my mom by the hand but we were just one of many because everybody exiting their vehicles they were all in line and i don't know exactly how many cars there were i just do know that we were about fourth or fifth back in the line because i did i could count then and additionally the school was one of those buildings that was a single school from elementary or kindergarten all the way up to 12th grade so the upperclassmen their school their classes were upper level but as i looked on the playground which was which was blocked off it was a whole playground directly across from d queen elementary it's still there uh they had monkey bars and all that kind of stuff but everybody met there in the morning it was just full of kids and every eye in every hand and every finger was pointing upward looking at these things and you and from where i was i was probably a hundred yards away from the playground away from see from where they were located and the school was probably 70 yards so that difference you know i'm just trying to equate the distance because i have gone back and looked at it and try to stand right where our car was i tried to really put because those houses are all still there the sidewalks are all still there everything is still there so um there were people pointing out the windows because there was no ac back that time and the windows were open and wooden frame windows and people were pointing out them and uh we just stood there staring at them you know 45 seconds a minute minute and a half and then all of a sudden they just boom straight up out of sight clear blue sky if there had been clouds that had punched holes in them because they were just gone and they were gone in under a second they didn't disappear they moved they went straight up instantly instantly how fast would you huh how fast was the fastest thing we have they can leave the atmosphere today all right you know say our best rocket it takes what a minute or something two minutes they've never gone in seconds they were literally out of our atmosphere in a second if that they were so fast it was incredible and there was nothing as i know aeronautics now there was nothing like a wind blast a rotor washer anything like that it was just and just gone instantaneous just like lou says do you remember a reaction to that my reaction or like a general yeah it was like holy smoke you know as a kid you hear people saying whoa my god and like these type of things my mother did but the strangest thing about that whole incident and all those people that saw it in school nobody said a word the entire day about the whole thing any teachers nobody said a word about it just went on like nothing happened it was like it was forgotten about why do you think that is i have no idea do you think it was the technology or the being somehow or was it just the time and the taboo because you hear that a lot with people that are just like yeah we didn't talk about it it's just you know one brought up it may be something that they can do over a broad area below them people that are seeing them or something and whatever what that's for i have no idea why they would do that but it seemed it didn't cause a calamity people didn't run for their cars and you know let's go get you know whatever and and holland nobody left everybody just went back to what they were doing kids went back to playing on the playground i went up my mother i got back in the car you know my sister did and she let me out and she went on you know have a good day and i went to school and you know and nobody said anything about it the whole day and i've been back to port arthur in the museum there's it's right now near next to the port i was working for a shipping company out of norway then so that's how i ended up going back there several times and uh janice joplin she was a renowned artist there was from that area i'm familiar with janice joplin and her volkswagens and there are her pores really our carmen guilla i think is what it is inside that museum but i went through all these archives and all these newspaper clippings and all this back to that time in 1961 and i couldn't find anything and i have searched and searched i've sent out search messages to people you know that are that look for things you know like michael johnson you know i've got friends that are helping me search for him still after all these years but it was nothing written that i've ever found do you remember the month uh well yeah i'm pretty certain that it was like a right after school started like in august okay september august september around there yeah august and september call to action for the audience listening port arthur 1961 august september do your thing internet you know maybe we can collectively find something out here it's got to be written about because that wasn't the only time that things were seen there i've been told usually there's always yeah we had preston dennett here not too long ago he's a researcher as well right lovely man and he sent out a challenge to his audience and he goes i challenge you to name me the smallest town that you can find on the map of the united states and i will find a sighting there and he did he's like batting 100 no on the tiniest hounds yeah so you'd be surprised um wow so about your mother that comment i mean they're not here to hurt you yeah in retrospect what do you make of that well she was from um rocky mountain north carolina and her and her sister esther who's now passed uh when they were little girls they saw you know they were always in the woods i mean they you know they had uh what five sisters and four brothers in the same family so they were always in the woods and they were always in the fields it's not like today's teenagers and kids you know um they'd seen things at night on the front porch of their house and question them and they and then she said you know these weren't they weren't aircraft they weren't airplanes but they would just be there and and just vanish literally just just take off so fast it was indescribable when your mother was a child when my mother was a child pre-1940 pre-1930 so we're not talking satellites or anything yeah right this episode sponsored by hexclad out here at the flying saucer diner we believe in three things hot coffee 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hexclad's barbecue collection for a limited time only and for our listeners you can get 10 off your order with our exclusive link just head to hexclad.com area 52 support our show and check them out at hexclad.com forward slash area 52 make sure to let them know that we sent you and even when uh i remember you just triggered a memory there when sputnik was launched when russia launched sputnik we were out in our front yard and and on janelle's street in tampa florida 509 janelle place never forget it love that house and uh we saw sputnik going over and then i think wtvt channel 13 they said that you could see the satellite pass overhead if you you know it's like nine or ten o'clock at night or something so mom let us stay up we could go outside and see it and my dad was there and uh which he was a merchant seaman he was usually at sea but he happened to be home this time and uh we stood out on the front porch and you know there's no ambient light back then i think there was a street light at the way into the corner that kind of thing and that was it my mom said um something to the effect she goes when she sees it she goes well she goes that thing it'll take a long time for that to come back around she goes that's so slow compared to other things that we've that i've seen in the sky at night she said that yeah yeah okay so they're clearly mario there's clearly a history with your mother it blows well my dad's it was even different but because he was from banaca honduras and and being at sea yeah he's been going to sea since he was freaking 12 years old or something you know i mean one of those places where if you see anything you know it's not us right like when you're in the middle of the ocean or whatever yeah yeah there's nothing flying hovering in the middle of the ocean you need a battery you need it you know you're not getting anywhere or entering the ocean or whatever you're not getting anywhere you're not getting are coming out of the ocean. or out of the atmosphere. Yeah. And he was never alone anytime he ever told me about those things. And, you know, honestly, I really, in my early teenage years, I never really paid much attention to him, you know, talking about some of the things they would see undersea and that kind of thing under the water, you know, while he's on a trip. Cause there's one time he's gone like a, he was gone a year, uh, really 13 months. And he would, he would, you know, he would tell me about all these things that, you know, they'd see in the sky or, you know, under the water, these, you know, great points of light. He called them. He didn't say what they were. He never said there was an object or a craft of any shape or design. He said, but there are things that we don't know about and they've always been here. And that's, that was his wording exactly. And he, he died real young, but wow. Um, yeah. And then, uh, when he was growing up as a boy, uh, he told me that him and his brothers and his cousins were playing literally in the jungle and there's Mayan ruins everywhere. It's, you know, just not one particular area. There's so many things. Yeah. And in this part of Banaca, Honduras, there's so many, and I don't even think it's called Banaca anymore. It's, I don't know if it's a roller tan or I'm really not sure. I've never been there. So, um, he said, but they were all playing out in the jungle. You know, we say the woods, they say the jungle because it really is a jungle down there. And they saw this tall, redheaded guy with long red hair, super white skin, and he wasn't walking. He was floating. Through the, through the jungle, through the jungle. And they all hid behind these, these items to watch him. And he stopped and he turned around and looked back toward them. And then they freaked out and took off running. They weren't maybe 30 feet from him or something, but he made no noise. And he, and he had on robes. He didn't have on regular clothes. He had on robes. And I just took that and threw it out. I just looked at my dad and I said, okay, yeah, what are you gonna do with that? Nothing, nothing. I wish I'd have paid more attention to him. You know, really? Probably a reason though, you know, you ignored that stuff so much until you couldn't ignore it. You know, now looking back on it, you might, you might kick yourself and say, oh, I should have listened. But at the same time, you don't have a history with this stuff. And that's what makes it so fascinating that you had these sightings. It's not like you were chasing UFOs when this happened to you, but UFOs seem to be chasing you. Yeah. I don't know. I do know that when I went to the missile field, I, first of all, when I first got my assignment out of Lackland Air Force Base, after basic training and air base ground defense and all the other things that we go through, when I, when I saw South Dakota, I thought, where in the hell is Ellsworth Air Force Base? So, you know, it was a rapid city. And then, you know, I kind of put the two together and looked on the map and knew Mount Rushmore was there. So I'd have to see that. But my first week and a half in the missile field out there, when I saw those stars at night on the, out in the middle of those prairies, because this was all Buffalo running, territory, you know, and there's no ambient light, there's no, there's no towns, there's nothing. There were things that, there were things that you could see moving in the sky. And I don't know what they, I don't know if they were satellites or what they were, but I just had a strange feeling back then before any of this ever happened, you know, what happened on November 5th. I just knew something, there was a correlation between nuclear rockets and, and these visitors. I just knew there was, there's a connection between them. I don't know what they're, I don't know why they're looking at this stuff and, and these sites, but it's, it's all Malmstrom, Minot, Ellsworth, which is, you know, it was decommissioned, I think in, I think in 91, when the missile field was decommissioned, but the aircraft, the airport, aircraft side of it's still active, of course. And I did mention Minot. So those are the three, you know, ICBM sites that are still active today. And I just never, I never could understand why they did away with Ellsworth, which kind of bothered me a little bit. Might've been, that might've been a precursor. But it was, it was more than just my sighting there that did occur. And I think the, the bad part about, about it is it was before a time the air force or really the army or the Navy, the coast guard, anybody really had a good handle on what was going on because these things are being seen and have been seen. And, you know, since before Robert Salas's time, I mean, really in over Los Alamos, Sandia, and then I've been to both of those facilities, Oak Ridge, Y-12, K-25, Pantex. I mean, there's just. As, as a security police officer. Yeah. Well, in, in a security inspector capacity with Department of Energy, but as a security officer, you were stationed in the air force. Yes. You were stationed at those or were you just. No, no, just at air force bases. I'm just saying overall in general. But you've been to all of these places. Yeah. You've been to, you even told me yesterday at dinner, you were likely in Los Alamos the same time Bob Lazar was. I have a strange feeling now. I was, I was at the Sierra 450 area and there was a scientist there that they kind of put me with. I wouldn't know if you'd call it a bodyguard or something like that, but I was assigned to him and his last name was Bishop. I was assigned to him and his last name was Bishop, and I was assigned to him and his last name was Bishop. And I was assigned to him and his last name was Bishop. So I was assigned to him and his last name was Bishop. And you know, I thought it was really cool because besides being in that control room, similar to this right here when that happened, but being out in the 450 area, again, it's so vast. I found pieces of pottery, beautiful pieces of Indian pottery. And you know, and there's the caves that the Indians could dig into the rock face. I mean, with a spoon, you could dig a condominium as big and as vast as you wanted. And they did that. And they did that. And they did that. So I was picking up all this pottery and then come to find out, you know, because we have Geiger counters in our vehicles, it was all radioactive. So I had to get rid of it. I mean, a sack of this stuff. I thought, I'll bring this home, sew this off, you know, and I saw them. So anyway. Wow. So you've, yeah, you've clearly frequented a lot of the most secretive, I mean, highly securized sort of. Compartmentalized facilities in the United States. Like that was your job. Yeah. I had a great time. To do that. You were armed as well? Oh, absolutely. All the time. What did they give you? Well, we carried different weapons for different areas. You know, like inside of a laboratory area, you wouldn't want to carry an M16 or an M4 or an MP5 silencer. But, you know, because there's things that if you did engage an adversary, you don't want to. Alert everyone? Well, no, no. You don't want ricochets bouncing all over the place. I see. And you don't want particular. You know, in a place like that, a shotgun would be better, you know, if you had to engage. Close range. Yeah. If you had to engage. You don't really want to fire a weapon like that. Did you ever have to engage? No. No. Thank goodness. Yeah. Thank goodness. Absolutely. Yeah. But you were ready. Oh, yeah. You had the training. Yeah. How many times a year would you train? Well, you qualify twice a year. Twice a year? Every six months. And then, of course, they do give you rounds to go out and shoot on your own. I mean, which is substantial. Really? Guys that didn't want to do it, they'd give you theirs. So you'd be out there to 5,000 or 6,000 round capacity with it. Oh, my God. To just melt some barrels down. Yeah. Just have some real good fun. I think Bob Lazar, he likes automatic weapons. I think so. Yeah. I think he does, too. He likes anything that goes boom. Yeah. Absolutely. So there's nothing wrong with that. I don't hunt. All I do is I just target practice. You go to the range still? Yeah. I do a lot of tactical stuff still. What's your favorite gun? M4 that I built and a wheel gun, a 586 Smith & Wesson. Whoa. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Mm-hmm. What kind of rounds do those have? 357 Magnum. Okay. Big rounds. You can shoot 38 to it also. Okay. Which is cheaper than 357 Magnums. Right. Yeah. And, of course, 5.56. You know, I'm M4. I have some specialty shotguns also, semis, that I really like to shoot, but it's very difficult to find a range that you can go and utilize the shotgun on. I see. Because it tears down all the structure and everything. And indoor ranges, they just get really upset about. It's the spread. Yeah. You can't control that. I mean, you can control it, but they don't want to listen. Not everybody's disciplined with a firearm. They just want to hear a big bang and see what they can tear up. Yeah. Unfortunately. Yeah. I've only been to a few myself in my lifetime because, you know, obviously in Canada, we got a lot of restrictions on these things. And I don't own any guns myself, but I've had some friends down in Texas. Mm-hmm. And they were like, "You got it. We got to get this Canadian, you know, to shoot some guns." And I was like, "All right." And they started me off with a.50 Cal. No way. Yeah. My soul left my body. Well, I'm not going to lie. I'm not going to lie. It was stunning. Sure it did. And it felt incredibly terrifying. Terrible. And the target, they put a Tannerite on the, was it? Oh. Is that what it's called? Tannerite, right? Yeah. On the target without telling me. And so I'm shooting this thing, and this thing's exploding. And I'm like, "Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Yeah. Yeah. And I'm, yeah, it was a big prank on me. But- You ever come down southeast Georgia, where else, you can do an indoor range, and you can, we'll do you right. You have your protection, our protection, and you won't be overpowered by a fire. Okay. All right. I'll take you up on it. All right. So take us into, was it the night before? Or was it the same? Was it, because you had a shift the night before November 18th. No. I just came to the field that day. You just came to the field that day. Okay. And we work 12-hour shifts. Yeah. And our relief usually takes place two flights. You do six to six. That's correct. Yeah. Yeah. Two flights of security police officers, which would be 12 total, six at each. We are six on each shift. We do two flights at a time coming out on a bus or by helicopter, depending upon the weather. Buses, most of the time, blue bird buses with tinted windows. And before my relief and then that shift getting off, they head out on the bus and we take over, of course. So, you know, continuity is never broken. It's always there where it's always manned. And so then, you know, the shift that you're working by what the roster says before you ever leave, in your debrief that you get before you leave out to the field. So once we got to the field. I was on the 6 p.m. to 6 a.m. shift, as was Michael Johnson. And he was working vacation relief for my normal partner who went to North Carolina to get married. Steve Welchel. Good guy. Been trying to find him, too, but I haven't had any luck finding him. So maybe. You think he's happy he didn't show up that night or disappointed? I really don't know. I didn't get a chance to see him again. After that was over, they never sent me back to November Control. No. Yeah. I heard about that as well. Yeah. So we. Performed our relief. And I was young and energetic and playing table tennis and always hitting a tennis ball. We had an off-site garage. So it was on-site, but it was not connected to the main launch control facility. And I put plywood up on the walls and put tape squares in it so I could just get out there and had a center line for the nets. I just loved tennis. And I'd just get out there in that garage for hours and just slam that tennis ball. And, you know, and it helped me in tournaments and stuff when I played a lot. Oh, yeah. But. So. We elected to. I elected to do that. And so I didn't go to sleep. And we came on duty at 6 p.m. And did our normal thing and sitting around reading books and so forth. And the other three guys that we relieved, they, you know, went on to their room 10 or 11 o'clock that night or so. And it was kind of it was kind of cool because at about I say about 9, 10, 9, 15 is when I walked outside to smoke a cigarette. And then TV's on three channels in which we had we could view with. I helped set the antenna. Back of the building. And. When I started to smoke a cigarette and I looked to my east and it was between 9 and 13 degrees. And I'll just see this large light. And I went and it was 30, 35 degrees up off the horizon. I went, what was that? What color was it? Hard to describe, but it was it wasn't bright white and it wasn't dull white. It was just in the middle of that somewhere. Is this a color? I'm colorblind, but it's a color. I don't know. Maybe like your walls in here or something like that, but yet bright and full. It wasn't there wasn't any gaps in the in the in looking at it wasn't, you know, like a dark spot or a brighter spot or anything. It was just one color. And it just just looks so odd. And I went, what is that? I said, I thought for a minute. I said, it's got to be based on the size of it because you're looking at stars in the background and overhead and you can reach up and grab a star. And I said, it's got to be based on the size of it because you're looking at stars in the background and overhead and you can reach up and grab a star. The Milky Way, it just looks that way. It's so clear. And we were, what, about eight miles north of Newell, South Dakota on Highway 79. And then Belfouche is to the north and to the west, I think, 29 miles. And then Sturgis is south of us 30 miles. So there was nothing there. We were the brightest thing on that whole prairie area. Our launch control facility, which had between 12 and 14 two-foot light cans on it, security perimeter lights. And, of course, I think our. Our fence line is either eight or 10 feet, but barbed wire turned on the outside. First of all, I've got to stop you. Your recall is insane, Mario. You're rattling off these numbers like you worked there yesterday. This is crazy. I don't know if anybody really appreciates to what extent you're getting us a detailed picture of what happened. This is remarkable. It's just there. Well, it's unbelievable. Yes. So, sorry, I didn't want to interrupt you, but I thought I had to just remind the audience of what it is they're listening to. And I challenge them to talk to me about an event that happened. 40 years ago. See what they come up with. 50 years ago. So, I could probably. I could run 20 miles, you know, with a backpack on an M16 back then and smoke a pack of cigarettes. It didn't. It just didn't bother me. I was just in that good of shape. And I'm sorry to say that I did smoke back then, but I did. And I'm looking to the east and I see this dang old light. And it just looks so out of place and so odd. And the size of it was what really got my attention. Not just the light in the sky. Again, well, it couldn't have been the moon. I think there's one scientist who looked at that, you know, and said, no, it wasn't the moon. It wasn't Venus. I can't remember his name. Oloski or Leeski or. He's got a funny first name, but I'll think of it. And so, I just lit up a cigarette and didn't think no more about it. And, you know, it just drew my curiosity. And I went, well, what the hell is that? What is that exactly? And I thought B-52 bombs. And I knew it wasn't helicopters. Now, I think we have. I'm not sure the type of helicopters we have. They weren't super blackhawks. They were something else. I didn't mean to do that. But usually, it was always the notification of a trip coming from the main base to your location. Okay, it's incoming, you think. Yeah, there was always communication if that were to happen. You're seeing like the headlights of the craft is what you're thinking. Yeah, they just don't send helicopters out and they just land it. November Control or Kilo or Echo or Mike, they just don't do that. They always have a trip planned and they notify wherever that's going before it gets there. You know, because we're heavily armed and we're looking at all areas in the sky, perimeter, everything. So, I get this wild-brained idea. I said, well, I couldn't tell if it was stationary or if it was coming to me. I didn't hear anything. And that's all I could see was that thing just literally hanging in the sky. So, I said to myself, when I used to go to sea with my dad once in a while in the summers, ships passing, you know, in channels or out at sea, international waters, they would sometimes flip lights at each other. If there was a communication problem, you know, or something, one was Russian, one was Korean or Filipino, whatever they were, they would flip lights at each other. So, I thought, I'll go in there and flip the lights on and off of this thing. And you're kind of taught that also. So, in security police school, for identification purposes, for aircraft identification purposes, and that kind of thing, and how to communicate with them, basically. Like Morse? Yeah, similar, you know, like a three-blit type sequence or something, and they'll acknowledge back of, you know, that they're seeing you and you're seeing them. Yeah, like flipping high beams off of someone on the road. Sure, sure, same thing, same thing. So, I went inside, and Bill Holliman, he was a staff sergeant, great guy from North Carolina. He was on the phone with his wife, and she was like, And I said, hey, Bill, and we're good friends. I said, man, you've got to come see this thing. I said, there's a light out here. And I said, I'm going to flip the facility lights out of it if you don't mind. And he just looked up at me and just, he just did that, just waved me off, you know. He said, no, whatever. And the switch was literally on the wall, just like that. And I just walked up there behind him. Now, mind you, the entrance to the capsule crew, where the offices are downstairs, that's what his position is directly in front of that door where his office is set up. And he dispatches us, they dispatch. And tell all alarm situations to him. He even relays to us. And we all have our weapons. We got our code tables and all that stuff. But anyway, getting back to this, I just walked up and just flipped the lights off and on. Just blip, blip, blip, blip, blip, blip, just like that. Walked outside, about 20 feet away from the door. I've been right to that very spot again. And looked to my east, and it was about 10 or 15 seconds later. The damn thing went blip, blip, blip, flipped off, flipped on, but off, on, and back on. And I went. I went, wow, that's cool. It's got to be B-52 bombers. But still, no noise, not coming any closer, not going north, not going south. So how crazy is that? How does that just, it just blew my mind up. I said, what kind of aircraft is that? Is it a helicopter hovering? Still couldn't hear it. And out there, even if it was six or eight miles away, 10 miles away, you'd hear a chopper. I mean, it's total silent out there. And so I shook my head, and I walked back in. I did the same thing. Came back outside. I even took a bit home again. I said, man, I flipped the lights out of it. It flipped the lights back at me. He just looked up at me like I was an absolute fool. I went back out there again, and it did it again. So now I got to wake up somebody. Somebody got to come see this. So my partner, Michael Johnson, and we hadn't really said that much to each other. I met him at the SATOF building, which is our assembly facility, where all the security policemen go. Going out in the field that day. I see. That was the first time you met him? Yeah. Yeah, that was the first time I met him. And I think he was from the 66 area, which is down by the Badlands, which would be east of Rapid City. And where we were located was to the west and to the north, almost by the Wyoming border. And it was very close to the Wyoming border. And so I went and said, hey, Michael. I said, come out here. I want you to check something out, man. I see some lights out here, or a light out here. I want you to see what it is. See what you think about it. And he was kind of hesitant, you know, real nice, real light-skinned black guy. He was from Chicago, I think, from Chicago, Illinois. And he was a single guy, lived on base. And his parents, that was his permanent home address, was in some part of Chicago. So I finally wrangled him to come outside. And I said, all right, you see that right there? And he goes, he just nodded his head, yeah, yeah. I said, hold on. I ran back inside, left him standing there, again, about 20 feet from the door. Flipped the lights off and on, off and on, off and on. Run back out there again. And I just stood there and watched it. And it did it again. So it did it that time. And I said, did you see that? And he goes, yeah. He goes, I don't know, man. Whatever. And he said that to me a couple times that night. Whatever. I don't know if he didn't want to just acknowledge it or he didn't have any curiosity in him or what. I really don't know. Or he was freaked out by it. He didn't have any excitement at all, though. It just didn't register with him, you know, on his spite. He said, I don't know. He didn't have any sense of his own skills or whatever, you know, senses. And so I said, let's do it again. And he just kind of, I remember him looking down. And it was quite cold. It was like 9 to 13 degrees that night. It was ice on the ground. So I ran back in. I got my long drones on, fatigues and all that stuff on. So I ran back in and did it again. Come back outside. This would be the third time. It would be the fourth time. Flipped the lights off. Flipped the lights on. Same thing. Came back out. It was about 15, 20 seconds. It went off, went on, went off, and that was it. Just stayed off. I said, well, I said, I told Michael Johnson, I said, I guess that's the end of the show or something. I don't know. And he didn't say anything about it. I said, what do you think that is, man? I said, do you think it just went the other way or what? He goes, he just, he really just shrugged his shoulders off. He didn't really. Not interested. Yeah. He was just uninterested. So we go back in, sit back down. And I just kept thinking, you know, what was that? And the guys that were off duty, they had already gone off to, I guess, bed or something because they get up early and have breakfast. So I grabbed a book or something and started reading a book or, because, you know, it's hard to get people to play ping pong with you or sometimes we played hearts and stuff like that and we'd get everybody together. But Bill Holliman's still on the phone. He'd been on the phone for two hours at least. I don't know. I don't know how that happens. And, of course, the TV went off at 12 o'clock then. That's when you get that really crazy signal at the end of the night and it had that broadcast signal. Then it, you know, it had that high pitch signal when it ended, you know, because we only had three channels. And I guess it was about a few minutes after 12, 12, 15 or so, 12, 12, 05, 12, 15. All of a sudden I heard the alarm phone in the flight security. And I heard it go off. And it makes a noise. And I'm going to do this. Like that. And it's really loud. You can hear it all the way out in the kitchen and day room area. And there's a reason for that. And so I hear Bill Holliman. He snatches it off. Because it rings until you take it off the hook. Right. And I just, as I'm walking in the vestibule and I'm entering his office, I hear him say, "Sit for November 5." And none of this is classified by the law. It's classified by the law. Right. And I just, as I'm walking in the vestibule and I'm entering his office, I hear him say, "Sit for November 5." And none of this is classified by the way. I want everybody to know that. None of this that I'm talking about is classified whatsoever in any part, none of it. So I hear him say, "Yes, sir. Sit for November 5." And so I went in there. And Michael Johnson said, "Yes, sir. Sit for November 5." And I said, "Yes, sir. Sit for November 5." And he said, "Yes, sir. Sit for November 5." And so I went in there and Michael Johnson comes in. Michael Johnson didn't know his way around, of course. He would be the driver. He outranked me by two months. We were both senior airmen at the time, 23 years of age, I was, and got our weapons, got our code tables and everything that we had to have, had our ditty bags, that's your hawk bag we call it, and it's got all your stuff in it in case you have to spend the night out there on the side. Your rucksack. Yeah. Yeah. We call it, it's got everything in it, like I said, in case you have to literally spend the night, a few nights on that missile site until a camper alert team gets there, until the maintenance can come and solve the problem if you can't get a reset on what's going on out there on alarms, because it has to be back to non-alarm status is the right word. So got our briefing and everything and loaded up the vehicle. Exited the gate, went out to the dirt road, all these are clay roads that connect these sides, there are highways, and turn left at the end of our road, next intersection turn left. And it was about four and a half miles from that intersection up to highway 79. And the strangest thing is that the road kind of goes down and then it goes up toward the highway bed. I guess during the winter time, you know, when you have, I don't know, four or five miles of snow and ice and everything, so you can run off of it. And that's why they build the highways up, and they're very smart people about managing that during the winter time. You know, all the power lines are underground, all that kind of stuff, and that's pretty smart. And I just happened to be sitting, when I was sitting in a passenger seat, I just turned and looked over my right shoulder at about four o'clock position, and we're in an F-150 Ford pickup truck. That was our response vehicle with two blue bubbles on top, US Air Force security police on the side. And weapons rack in behind us, and, you know, so it was a single cab Ford pickup truck. Yeah. And all of them were. They were all the same. They had Western mirrors on it. And as I looked over at about the four o'clock position, I see this pulsating glow like this miles away at the November 5 area. I mean, as the crow flies, that's where November 5 was. Same direction where you saw the crow flies. Yeah. Yeah. craft initially or the light no opposite completely opposite yeah we saw it east the east of the right november control and now november 5 is back in that direction so this was here to the east and then it was there november same color no different i didn't see a light as i saw in the sky this is like a pulsating energy coming up off the ground or coming up through the atmosphere and it was a clear night so there were no clouds or anything so you're seeing kind of just the the fall off of the light yeah over the horizon like a like a pulsation like it was pulsing wow like it was like this pulsing and it was very bright and it was it was large but i didn't you know i couldn't get any i didn't see a a confining uh shape of it it was just like a light that you that you'd stand over there in that corner and just hit a flashlight and it's pulsing light up yeah it's like that and i said hey michael you see that and of course he's driving he's not about to look and he see what man you know something like that so so highway 79 take a right as soon as we got up on top of that road bed and turned to the right then that four o'clock now became the 1 130 position right and then you could really see it because we were up higher now not much higher but high enough where you could see that pulsation and i said that right there do you see that and he just goes man whatever he says oh you know i don't know he just didn't want to participate or acknowledge anything it could be other than ordinary and do you think that's because he's not familiar with what goes on out there and so maybe he's thinking himself it's probably just normal and you know i just don't know about it well it might be but he'd been there for a while at ellsworth and been in security police for a while i see ellsworth and he was in a different area so he just really never seen anything he'd heard about things but he'd never really seen anything to the best of my knowledge from what he told me later a few weeks later and as we uh headed down toward newell population 230 at the time uh to a stop sign and took a right as i lost view of that pulsating light as the road bed got lower down into town right and turned right on ormond road o-r-m-a-n and it goes out on hard pay for about i don't know maybe a half a mile or less and drops back off on dirt again or clay and they're really well maintained by the state and they're beautiful you can go 80 mile an hour on these things you know i mean you really can and as we made that dog leg left turn heading to november 5 which was just down the road maybe another mile there sat this object in the atmosphere directly over that missile site maybe 10 feet above the blast door that was right in front of us and i'm gonna say it is a super walmart this thing was gargantuan and it wasn't a craft that had a shape or a um defining shape like wings and and you know rudders or windshields or anything like that it was a complete sphere and it looked like it had plasma on the outside of it like a roiling surface like it looked like the sun it looked like the surface of a close-up picture of the sun like this stuff was like liquid and and fire and energy all together just molten like like molten rock or something just moving around and it did have some little it had some like uh energy spikes on it at times like like these model spikes would just kind of pop up and i mean when really looked at it and it was it was almost hard to look at but i did i did very as hard as i could i really tried to look at it and when we pulled up right on the cattle gate in front of the site it was only maybe 60 to 80 feet to the front gate which is which was a requirement that i had to go in i had to go around the exterior of the site and go in the gates and go on the interior normal procedure just for patrolling yeah and this thing was so massive that where it sat how it's at 10 feet above that blast door i mean right there you're dead in the middle of that blast door like it knew where it was when you say a blast door that's protects the rocket that's what that's the rocket comes out the icbm that blows back yeah when the icbm is launched that blows back and it's on uh it's on like a like a railroad track that's short and it blows it and tips it and gets it out of the way immediately there's no pull in fact it's it's gone and it's dead center over the top dead center directly over top of it and i mean i even looked at the concrete glowing underneath it meaning so bright you know because of the what was above it and i looked at michael and and he was just like with a he had like a glow around him all of a sudden and and it was just i mean this is very hard to perceive you know when you pull up on something that this happened it's very difficult to perceive what you're seeing and immediately the atmosphere was just evacuated from our vehicle immediately what do you mean i couldn't breathe he couldn't either we're just gasping for air just gasping for air and i felt like there was a pressure inside the vehicle and i was being pushed on the chest and literally lit and i had on you know i had on parka pants a full full parka my beret on my glove i had my gloves on i took one glove off um in my weapon and i just felt like i was being and i was 200 and something pounds i was just being lifted up into that back area of the cab of that truck just just being lifted up with no visible force or anything upon me i was just i couldn't breathe and i was being pulled up this way and just like in this chair just being pulled up or something and the only thing i knew to do was to ask for relief and i grabbed a black three d cell aluminum flashlight i've called it a mag light but i know they didn't do commercial mag light advertising until 79 this is in 77 so it was before it was ever named a mag light and i rolled the window down and i pulled myself up on that on the window sill of that truck because i was so afraid i i couldn't i wouldn't step out of the vehicle i got on bunny boots also i don't know what those are but those are for super cold temperature areas they're inflatable and uh i pulled myself up on that window sill and i i grabbed onto the bubble up there with my i had a gloved hand on here and i didn't have a glove on this hand and i just flashed my light at this incredibly huge object three or four times just like i did back at november control and i don't even know why i did it i was just asking for relief in my mind i was asking for relief flash flash okay i don't even know what this is and it was just as if somebody turned a faucet off i just i slid back down on that seat and uh i don't know what happened to my flashlight i grabbed my i grabbed my gun i grabbed my weapon i put it back between my legs and i told michael johnson i said it's gonna be okay now and could breathe better could literally breathe better all this has taken place in about 15 seconds since i rolled up there and then a black ball about the size of that wall right there what do you think it's eight foot it had these lines on it like vents they weren't like a like a it was like i have to say it was like omni-directional it just came out of nowhere and it was a color black that it's not like that black or that black it was a black that was very difficult to to describe it wasn't flat black wasn't gloss black it was just black it's like a little it's like a basketball with nozzles all around these little sorts of gas and shoot from each side of it and flip it and push it and move it and just go up and come down and go you have to go and go everywhere that's just like a little like a big bullet or something i don't know did it make any sense what it was trying to do no it was just on top of this right left of me on the side of him around me did you uh smell anything no and uh it came within about eight inches of the hood of that vehicle and it was literally right here in front of the windshield and it uh it shot straight up straight down around the side right here next to me i mean there's no you don't even you don't know what uh what it is on the other side of michael johnson's side he never he's not speaking he's saying anything and i mean i'm not saying anything and when it stayed for eight or ten seconds and then it was just gone uh it was the strangest feeling to have that thing all over you and not even know what it was don't know where it came from never recognized or seen anything like that in my entire life and the word drone was not even thought about then or used especially in in any of my vocabulary anyone else's in security police that i knew of see a small object in front of me and i and i and i nothing i've ever seen can you describe it yes it was two and a half three feet down and it was like a little ball i don't know what else to say okay let's let's pause for a second let's pause for a second mario mario you need to calm down take a deep breath and uh it left and it seemed like it was a void that was like 45 seconds where it was just nothing but pure white light inside the vehicle and it just seemed as if if i can describe it as time slowing down and the reason i say that because the brightness was so so intense that i could i could i could see inside the vents of that of that f-150 i could see down inside the vents it was just lit up a foot and a half down in the dashboard from this light and dust particles were just moving past me like super super slow as if time was just stopped or slowed down I have no idea how that's even done or if that's what happened, but that's the way it appeared to me. And Michael Johnson, I can't speak for because every time I looked at him, he was just stuck to that steering wheel and he was just bathed in this light. And mind you now, we're at a 45 degree angle. That's our response position. So actually, he was closer to the craft or to the object than I was. It was on his side of the vehicle. I was on the dark side and I see this dust coming by me and I don't see shadows. I see everything is so lit that I can put myself right there right now and it's really uncomfortable. I see everything is so lit that I've never experienced light, lightning or any searchlight or anything like that in my life. And I think that light in itself had a function of what I don't know. Maybe some type of a sedative type thing because not one time did I feel as if I was going to charge my weapon. start just shooting at anything or everything. I, I, I never felt that way. I, um, I wanted to run, but there was nowhere to run. You were that and, or, or a mess yourself. Literally. That's the kind of fear that, that this invoked to me. I can't speak for anyone else in. And these thoughts of what I'm describing and pulling up there, less than probably two and a half, three minutes have passed, and all this has taken place. And I'm guessing there, I'm just saying that that's how quickly this all unraveled. It's still a long time. Yeah. And then this smell, it hit me like a blanket, and it just coated inside my nostrils and in my lungs and my throat. It just coated me like ammonia and sulfur. It just, it takes your complete attention for everything else. I've never smelled anything quite like it again. Something similar in a cooler with some shrimp going bad that was opened. It was pungent. Yeah. Was it like chemical? I can only say ammonia, because, I mean, I worked around all these laboratories in different areas, like even workplaces. I work now in Georgia Pacific. It's, you know, you smell these smells, and you, and. Did it sting your nose? Yeah. Yeah, that did. It just coated, it just felt like I was coated. I couldn't get it out of me, you know, at all. And as soon as that was gone, I, or it wasn't really gone, it was still there. It had permeated inside of that truck. I knew the only thing protecting me on my right side, was that thin piece of glass on that window. And I don't even know where that, where that thought came from, but that's what I thought. And then I started to fear. And as soon as I started to fear is when I heard the first word, do not fear, do not fear. Not verbally, inside of me. Like, I don't just mean in my head. I mean, through me, through every cell in my body radiated the sound at the exact same time. And it was a. Yeah. Yeah. In English, it was three words. Do not fear, do not fear, said in that way, do not fear. If you had to describe the voice, male or indescribable? Indescribable. It just, it's not like anything we've ever heard. The only thing that I can associate with it is when a father or a sibling would talk to a baby in a mother's womb. That's the only thing that I can associate with how it would feel. Because a baby hears those things. He hears, or she hears those sounds in a mother's womb when the father, you know, is talking to them, you know. Like all of us dads do. We've all done that. And it always reminded me of that. And I heard that twice. Do not fear, do not fear. And I just turned and I looked to my right because I felt. My presence in about 20 foot away from me were four beings, three small and one tall. And the one on the right, no, the one on the left, it would be, I was just looking from their point of view. The one on the right, he had, they had on these real skin tight little fitting, they're not coveralls or. Jumpsuits. Jumpsuits, I don't know what, yeah. I guess they're, but they're real skin tight and he had a waistband of some type. And in that band was a stick about that long. And it had a yellow tip on it about that big. Besides what I was looking at, that's really what I paid attention to. And it, honestly, it wasn't what I was looking at. And for alien beings and their smells and their. Talking within me. It was when I realized what I was looking at is when in here just kind of broke down for a second. It was three or four of them. Can you describe them from the shadows? Yes. Two of them walked up to me. Okay. I knew there was no escape. And there was no sense in saying anything or doing anything. I don't know what Michael Johnson was doing at that particular time. The next thing I know, I heard, do not fear one more time in succession. And lights out. Just that fast. Just lights out. Six foot. I mean, I don't know. He's different. Can you describe him? He was in a long hand. He had a very long hand. And he looked at me and he just looked right through me. And the little guys didn't bother me like he did. So. He looked through me or something. So. He looked through you? Yes. Okay. And the small ones didn't bother you? They walked right up to me. And they had little, these little, you know. And their eyes, I didn't even fear them. I didn't even fear them. Okay. They told me not to. And I didn't fear them. And as soon as. As soon as I couldn't see anymore, or I was out of sleep or whatever I was, I just took a deep breath and I just popped awake and I'm in total blackness. No lights, no missile sight, completely away from where we were. Didn't know that at the time. I just thought they'd turn all the lights off on November 5th because that's where we were dispatched to because of this alarm. And I said, "Hey, Michael." I said, "What, what happened? What's going on?" He had stuck to this steering wheel, just glued to it. And he wouldn't talk to me. He wouldn't answer me. November 1 to control. I said, "I got a problem with Sergeant Johnson." I said, "I can't get him to speak to me or acknowledge me." And I said, "I don't know where the hell we are." And I found out that he had a problem with Sergeant Johnson. And I said, "I can't get him to speak to me or acknowledge me." And I found out that he had a problem with Sergeant Johnson. And I said, "I can't get him to speak to me or acknowledge me." And I said, "I don't know where the hell we are." And I found out that he had a problem with Sergeant Johnson. And I said, "I can't get him to speak to me or acknowledge me." And I said, "I don't know where the hell we are." And I found out so odd that a grown man like you sitting there and me hollering at him, that whatever stupor he's in, he's going to eventually hear me. Pushed his face with my index finger. I put my finger in his ear about that far, thinking that would shock him or something. But it had no effect. And I turned to my right and I looked and I was still thinking about what I had just seen, thinking maybe this was all a dream. This didn't really happen. And there's a white wall and it goes up at about a 45 degree angle. I know I use a lot of degrees, but I live that way. And it was white. And it went up about 50 feet. It wasn't an angular, it was at an angle. So I said, where are we? I said, what happened? Where is November 5? And I'm saying this to Michael Johnson and nothing from him. I reached down and pulled the lever on the door handle and I stepped out in mud. And mind you, it was 9 to 13 degrees and there was ice on the ground. And where we were, it wasn't. And I didn't know. Where we were. I'd never been there before. So I'm in question with him. I'm trying to pull him and yank him and talk to him and didn't even think about the radio or nothing. And we had not made any kind of security check since we arrived on November 5, which was really unusual because that alarm dictated that we made a security check every five minutes during the process of that, what's called striking a site. And I thought, I'm in trouble now. You know, that's, that's all I could think of with everything else. I'm in trouble now. A few seconds passed and all of a sudden the radio just cracked alive. And it said, so WSC to November 1, do you copy? And I looked at Michael and I thought, well, here's a friendly voice. It was a wing security controller back at Ellsworth. Now these launch control facilities are very, they're very far away from the main base of Ellsworth. You live at these facilities. You live at Ellsworth. You live at these facilities, launch control facilities. There's 15 of them at Ellsworth, or there were, with a total of 150 missiles. Each launch control facility has 10 men-at-man missiles assigned to it. And you go and you take care of all 10 of those that are in your area, or you serve as backup to any other area that may need you. So I continued to try to wake him up. And I said, I said, Aaron Woods, WSC. I said, it's November 1. He said, are you, he goes, are you hurt? And I said, no, sir. He goes, what's your status? And I said, I'm not sure. I'm not sure. And he said again, he goes, do you need medical attention or something like that? like that. And I said, I don't, but I said, I can't get my partner, Michael Johnson, to talk to me. I said, he's just frozen to the steering wheel and won't move. And there was a long pause. He didn't really know how to, he didn't know what to say about that. I mean, these things are all new. You just got to go with it as it comes at you. You can't, there's really not a procedure that I knew of that you had guidelines to follow, unlike striking a side or something like that, which we had strict guidelines. And that was my biggest worry is I never stepped a foot on that side. And now, you know, now I was responsible for that. So I was going to be in trouble. That's all I could think about was I was going to be in trouble. And how was I going to explain this? You know, you and Michael. Yeah. How's I going to explain this? And I couldn't get him to say a word. I didn't know what he thought or what he heard or what he didn't hear. I'm, you know, I'm still shaken from what I've heard and what I saw and what I smelled. That's never left me. I want to pause here. And just go back a little bit to the encounter. Um, when you saw, clearly this is hard for you to talk about. Yeah. I see that. It gets me. Yeah. I try not to let it bother me, but it just comes upon me. How can you not? I don't know. I mean, this is otherworldly. I mean, there's, there's no other way to put it. And, you know, any way that you feel about it, there's no protocol for how you're supposed to feel about these things. So, you know, but it is. It is clear to me that you have an emotional reaction to reliving this. Um, when you saw Michael Johnson's face as he was being bathed in this light in the car, what was his expression? Wide eyes, breathing normal, just wide eyes. That's really all I could tell. Was his mouth open? Was he just? No. No. I don't mean his mouth was open. It was a little bit later, but it wasn't then. Did you feel like he was just in shock? He was just like stuck in time or something. I don't know. Frozen? Yeah. He was just frozen. He was just literally locked up. And, you know, and I got to say, I didn't pay attention to his arms because I really couldn't see him at that time and his hands, but pulling his jacket back when we got him up, when I got him off the steering wheel, he was so, he was so locked up. Uh, literally, how long had he been locked up? How long had he been stuck on that steering wheel like that? How do you, how do you grab onto something and not let go for however long it was and not be aware of it for one? And for two, it was almost as if we were going to break a finger getting his hands off that blue plastic F-154 steering wheel. Literally. And I had help doing that. Okay. So take me back then. You're, you're being radioed in. First of all, the radio calling in, did you ever wonder how long have they been trying to reach us? Did you ever get an answer to that? No. No. So it could have been the first time. Like you could have just maybe appeared and they're like, Oh, what are you guys doing out there? Like, there's no way that you can know that. Okay. And so you get radioed in, they send help. Well, first you got to find out where you are. Mm-hmm. When I stepped out and found out I was in, standing in mud, I just had, I had great questions that I couldn't even begin to answer with everything else that had just gone on. And I kept trying to talk to him and then wing security control said, we want you to make one minute security checks because we are going to triangulate your position. He didn't say we were doing it. He said, we are going to triangulate your position. And I'd never been a part of that or not had I not done, done it either. But we learned some similar to that in tech school, security police tech school, just never used it. Never thought it would, or, you know, but it was there in case it had to be. So he was doing that based on his one minute security checks as I had, I just call in, you know, and say, senior Emerald Woods, wing security control, security check. And he just 10 for that. And he said, they're coming, they're coming, they're coming, you know, we're trying, we're trying. And that's, that's the response I got back and forth on him. And of course he, he kept asking me about Michael Johnson, you know, do you see, do you know, can you, can you get him on the radio? I said, I can't get him off the steering wheel. I can't get him to speak. I can't get him to do anything. And there was a great pause in that. I don't know, you know, because, you know, all the, all the wing security control personnel were listening to that. All the security police personnel were listening to that. All of them through all three facility, through all C3 sites. I mean, through all three areas, the 66, 67, 68. So everybody was aware of it. What I was not aware of is where I was and how we got there. And it started getting bright. Now we arrived, November 5th, before 1am, preferably right around 12, 30, quarter to one, somewhere in there when all this took place. And when I looked at my little old military timex $20 watch back then, it was after 6am. Almost six hours. Five hours, at least. It passed. Five hours. No recollection how we got there. When did you look at your watch at that point? When the sun came up. You saw the sun and you were confused? It just started getting light in the east. And I went, what the heck? Because I had no idea this much time had passed. It just seemed, it just didn't, it just seemed like a second, like a few minutes from where we were to where we are now. Did that hit you at all when you saw the time? Yeah. I was like, oh my God. Now I'm really in trouble because we didn't go on that site. I just knew I was going to answer to a lot of stuff, you know, right? Yeah. Then and there. And I still couldn't get my partner, my team leader, to do, to answer or to be any, or cognitive of anything that was going on at all. He was just, he was just a blank. And it was a little after six when I saw the first set of headlights coming over a hill. And we were about, I guess we were about four and a half miles off the road of Highway 79 behind Newell Lake Reservoir Dam. But I. I do want to know, and back up a little bit to where, when I got out of the vehicle and looked this way and that way, which ended up being north and south. The road that we were on, we just, this was a two-wheel drive vehicle. All of our Fords out there, they were all two-wheel drive vehicles, rear-wheel drive. And where we were sitting on this, on this little road behind this dam, there was just wheels wide enough to be sitting. There was just wheels wide enough to be sitting upon. There was not a place to go in there and turn around, then to come back in the direction in which we were facing. It was the only way we could be facing to get out of there. If not, we couldn't, we couldn't have gotten our vehicle out of there. If it had been sitting east and west, you couldn't have moved it. And if Michael Johnson had been conscious and opened up his door, and it would have been total darkness and took two steps, he would have gone down about a 20 or 30 foot drop-off, not straight, but just a slanted drop-off into another holding pond for that dam overflow. Because the Weir Dam was down to, was north of us at the far end of Newell Lake Reservoir Dam. But there were tracks coming in. There were no tracks. There were no tracks coming in. No tracks anywhere. So, fresh snow, ice? Yeah, it was ice and snow, and there was no tracks. And there was no tracks? No tracks. None. Where we were was just a round place that was de-thawed and wet. And clay. And there was mud around your truck? Mud, yeah. And there was no tracks coming in for us when Sergeant Garza, he was a buck sergeant, and him and his team member, they were front, they were a backup alert team from another facility, I think Oscar. I think Oscar Flight, they sent them over, and of course, we had our backup alert team. Now, I think they might have gone with number five, but I really don't know. But a total of six security policemen in three vehicles in tandem arrived at the same time. You know, 20, 30 feet apart. Sergeant Garza was the closest. And one thing I don't remember is if our vehicle was running or it was off. I don't remember that. Did they comment on the fact that there was no tracks? Not at that time, no. At all. Sergeant Garza didn't either. But he said, and I walked around. I stepped out, and I walked around in front of the vehicle, and I walked toward him. He was about 20 feet away from me. And I said, Sergeant Garza, I said, what's going on, man? He goes, Mario? He goes, I don't know, but I can't talk to you about that. He said, I'm just here to escort you to November Control. I looked around, and I said, what the hell are we doing here, man? And as I noticed, it wasn't dark yet. It was getting light. And I said, what fucking time is it, man? And it was like 6.15 in the morning. And I said, okay, I understand. And I told him, I said, I need help with Michael Johnson. He didn't know Michael Johnson either, because I said he wasn't on our normal flight. And he just, he said, what do you mean? I said, I can't get him to talk. I can't get him to move. I can't get him to acknowledge anything. I said, I don't know what's wrong with him. So he walked over to the vehicle, not saying anything. I opened up the driver's side door, and there's Michael sitting there like this, seat belted in. We only had lap belts, seat belted in. And he's just stuck on the steering wheel. - Staring straight ahead. - Staring straight ahead, I don't know if he was blinking or not i never remember him blinking at all i put my hand in his face like i said i did everything i could possibly screamed at him yelled at him finger in the air every everything everything no response at all it's a locked up human being anyway finally we unbelted him and we both i got on i got on the um passenger side came across the seat because we had to get him in a in the passenger seat and i started working on his right hand undoing his thumb and his and his index finger and getting his hand opened up so i could get it off the steering wheel garza did the same thing on the left side and that's how he got his hand off of there when you were taking his hand off did his fingers stay in position as you were opening them or did they were they trying to like they were trying to continue they were trying to keep holding it was like he was in a great muscle cramp in both arms i mean he was like he's in a great muscle cramp and i i just don't have i don't have words for it and once we got him off the steering wheel and put his place his hands down on his lap like that i just grabbed him on the inside of the leg and up by the back of the collar and i just scrapped drug him across the seat and i just put the suit belt back on him and i kept talking to him the whole time and nothing he just sat there just like just looking straight ahead and just sitting there just sat there the entire time never said a word his weapon was there all this stuff his diddy bag was up which was supposed to be everything was where it was supposed to be and had been i went around and got into the driver's seat cranked the truck up i did do that i remember that and uh cars went back to his vehicle so the truck was off the truck was off yeah at that time it was off so i cranked it up turned on the lights everything was fine started to move i slipped a little bit you know as i said it's on a two-wheel drive and we were crunching through the snow and ice you know it was about a foot and a half deep foot foot and a half deep and got in behind garza they turned around and they went on uh as we exited out on the highway 79 the other two backup alert teams they went their way but garza stayed with us all the way to november control got to the gate at november control they opened the gate when they saw us coming of course there was radio communication going to the gate an automatic gate so that was opened and i pulled in right in front of the flight security controller's office it was just like an outward vestibule and when did there was you know there were the off-duty security policemen there that was bill holloman was there there were uh two officers there that had been underground that morning they waited their relief normally takes place and they leave every other day i think is how that works and i can't quite recall their schedule but usually at the alternate command center they stayed there overnight they didn't stay do that and they didn't stay there that same schedule on other sites so they were relieved with their new guys going downstairs and they come up so i had um bill holloman the on-duty security policemen that were there and myself and michael johnson would make up the off-duty shift but we have a facility manager a side cook and of course my flight chief master sergeant joel gray and ex-sergeant robert hawkins they were both there awaiting arrival and when they pulled up they just came uh came up to the side of the vehicle and as i stepped out um sergeant gray said he goes what's going on with you what's going on with you or something like that because he was an alabama guy and we had a really good rapport in relationship what's going on you boy or something something like that and i said i'm i don't know sergeant gray i said i don't know how to answer you sir he said what's wrong with him i said i don't know and they literally opened the door and got him out i said he has to have help i said he's not responding to anything i've been trying to talk to him and get his get his attention in any way or get him to talk or even acknowledge that there's somebody else in the room with him but he won't even do that so literally the flight security can or not know the um facility manager and i think one of the officers of the two got him yeah he's a lieutenant he got him and they put him under and they got him under the shoulders and they took him to the back room to the to the facility manager's bedroom and they sat him down i guess they're trying to get some fluids in him or something but we were immediately separated and that was the strangest thing because all i did was ask about him so they took me in the i went in the day room we turned in our weapons as that's normal procedure it was a program so we were relieved of our weapons but that's never been the case they didn't take anything they didn't ever took our weapons period um turned in all of our stuff code tables and all that stuff had to be burned and that was done but uh were you tired at this point i don't really recall how i was i i i don't think so i think i was so full of adrenaline yeah and mind you i'd been up the day before since about four o'clock yeah and when i was brought to the sata building to go do my normal three-day shift and then i stayed up all day and then this happened that night you know and so i'd been up all that time straight so maybe even a little bit delirious at this point because you're like trying to figure out what happened you've got missing time you might be tired but also you have this adrenaline pumping through your system very strange probably a very strange feeling it really honestly is yes and confusion i i just knew that i had to be very selectful in every single emotion and word that i stated that day to anybody i spoke with because uh you did not want them mistaking what happened for something else had i said what i saw out that right side window approaching me prp would have been gone my job would have been gone i'd have probably been put in a storeroom or something but my whole career would have been down the tubes just that fast and just to pause here prp the personal reliability program yes um can you explain a little bit about that and how you got to where you are right now you explain a little bit about what that is oh yeah well it's a it's a security measure taken from personnel that work uh in highly sensitive areas around nuclear equipment or sensitive nuclear materials or anything like that deemed that a catastrophe or a wrong move or a person that was unscrupulous could take something and do something with it to hurt others and many others yeah or contaminate something or could do anything to to harm many many people so the prp program is placed there uh in essence as a guideline to keep people on the straight and narrow it's your drug tested regularly yeah drug tested will they do a swab p test uh blood test hair test all the above yes and then let's say you have a headache one day and you want to grab a couple aspirin well that's an aspirin's okay aspirin's okay but if you take any kind of uh drug you know that that should be prescribed and it's not sure it shows up and boom you're done i mean you're taken in you're examined and you're cross-referenced and investigated and the idea of you saying like oh i'm feeling uh i'm feeling depressed or something you can't say any of that negative that's gone that's gone so you're under pretty strict guidelines guidelines almost surveillance oh yeah and so you're under pretty strict guidelines almost surveillance and so you're you're choosing your words wisely because you know that if you say the wrong thing here there goes your job everything your clearance is everything everything and i was you know i was new i was just a senior airman and uh i was newly married and uh i'm just trying to do a job you know that's that's what i was there for and i really enjoyed it up to that point i just didn't understand what it happened are you thinking to yourself michael is going to lose his job you're going to lose your job i didn't know i honestly didn't know because i couldn't i didn't know what he had seen what he heard what he would remember but just like his state like the state that he's in i would have been like yeah maybe this guy's you know he's you know he's i i didn't know if he'd ever recover from it the way that that i saw him i've never seen another human being act that way so now you go into like a debriefing situation i'm just in a day room just in a normal day room and we sit and everybody that was even on duty was standing around the outer perimeter and i had me sitting in a chair you know a lean back chair and in the day room and just and sergeant gray was kind of master sergeant gray was kind of leading the the investigation or the interrogation and getting ideas from others and i said there were there was one officer in there the other one was back with michael johnson and the facility manager in in that room and i was just asked everything what what happened what did you see what did you do and i said i'm going to do it i'm going to do it you didn't go on the site you know what happened they were you know and i told them i said there was an object i said gargantuan thing i said i don't know what happened well how did you get to where you were i mean just all types of cross-referencing questions like like that so i don't know how we got there well the vehicle didn't drive itself there i mean there was you know there was rebuttal and a lot of things that i even said you know and and i it just it just makes you feel smaller and smaller well how come you didn't you didn't strike that site and i couldn't really answer that other than i don't know why you know and you have to be very selectful in that in that appropriate answer so you mentioned the object you didn't mention the beings the smell correct any of that stuff yeah okay yeah and i and i told him of the the round ball object too that came down in front of the vehicle about the evacuation of the atmosphere inside the truck the pressure on the chest for both of us and how michael johnson acted and what he did or didn't do everything that i've told you with the exception of what i saw out this out the right side window i told them as best i could and of course that wasn't the end of it so after about two two hours two and a half hours of that then sergeant gray he was in the flight security controller's office while i was still out there i told him i said i have to go to the restroom i just needed i needed to i needed some silence to myself you know and not that i had to do anything or whatever i just i went into that restroom there were two stalls and i just went into the far stall and i closed the door and i just sat there and uh i was in my fatigues i i i just felt i felt dingy i felt dirty or grimy or something there's a better word for it and uh i remember putting my head on my on my in my hands and on my knees and i just sat there kind of rubbing my head and all of a sudden i get this super high pitch whining in my ears and my eyes are closed and it's like a scream in my in my inside my head this super high pitch and i open my eyes and then and the colors around me changed uh like pea green like like honestly like a pea green color just everywhere else that's what i was seeing out of my eyes everything just looked that way and it was a bright sunny day and i don't know if uh perhaps uh being subjected to to bright light or something like that was doing that because i was trying to find an answer in my mind it was just rolling over but this noise got so loud i remember placing my hands on side of my ears and i put my head down and when i closed my eyes i was leaving my body and i had a i had a clear path through me out my feet i just knew there was a way that i could leave my body and i felt like i kept anytime i close my eyes i go further down each time and i get here i got down to here if there's such a measurement and it freaked me out so bad i popped my eyes back open and when i did i see this i see these four little furry feet going across the tile floor in front of the door and installing them in it was a german shepherd drug dog and behind him was two pair of a pair of uh super shiny cochrane uh law enforcement boots that we always wore and uh the guy says you okay in there mario and i said yeah man i said i'm all right i'm fine i said i'm glad you're here i said my diddy bag's out there in the day room and he said he said oh we're i've already checked all that he said you guys are good he said i've done it all he said i just came to check on you so evidently he knew me but i don't know who he was i don't i just don't know who he was it's just he knew me though so he i opened the door and he's still there and you're not supposed to pet their dogs ever and i didn't i just said you know what a pretty boy he was i remember looking and he had my attention and did you feel flushed at all oh yeah absolutely absolutely and and the colors had not come completely back yet i still had that i still had that vision in my mind of or in my eyesight of this pea green color and it was it was calming down but all i wanted to do was i wanted to turn that sink water on that ice cold water from that huge well underground and that south dakota water it's like here it's super cold you know and super nice and i i just drenched myself and i had my fatigues on had long johns on and t-shirt long john top you know long john pants and my fatigue pants i just soaked myself and we weren't wearing cami fatigues and we were in those grays back back at that time and uh i was putting all my hair and my face and got me a paper towel and was wiping myself down and walked back out in the day room and i remember my master sergeant gray saying well did you take a bath in there i said yes sir i said if i could i i would do that i said just i just i needed to do that he didn't say nothing he said well get your bag he said we've got to go back to base he said wing commander and the base commander or deputy base commander wants to meet with you so that's where we were heading about 55 minutes back to elzworth air force base i want to put a little pause here i find it very interesting the out of body thing and it reminds me because one of the best ways have you ever left your body since then yes okay one of the best ways that i've encountered through people i've talked to and interviewed in the books i've read about leaving your body is fatigue fatigue is like almost a guaranteed way like if you skip a night's sleep and you try to stay up um there was a there was a guy marco who was in our group at the gateway process when i did the monroe thing and he was a firefighter and they would often you know spend 48 hours up and they'd sleep at the firehouse and one night he was telling me too as i as soon as his head hit the bed like as soon as it hit the bed he didn't have time to fall asleep like he was rising up through his body and going through the ceiling and whatnot yeah but that seems to be you know um a catalyst for out-of-body events so you might have been experiencing that on top of this out-of-body event and i think that's a really important thing to do and i think that's a really important thing to do and i think that's a really other thing you know or maybe it was facilitated by your experience i don't know but i think it's interesting that you had that happen there like how bizarre does this day get absolutely it's i try to make sense of it and and not only but what but why and what's the lesson and i i can't answer any of it i really can't uh i i do every day because there's not a day goes by where some part of this doesn't infiltrate back infiltrate back to me in some in some way i can see something that pushes that memory forward i can smell something that ignites other thoughts you know it's it's really uh it's consuming and it's it never goes away and i don't think it ever will until the day i'm no more but yeah it's a really important thing to do and i think that's a really important thing to do and i it's a strong um you know a lot of people in your position i you know that i've spoken to and i asked them like what's the one thing that you would ask them you know whatever did this and the answer is often is not often as always why me yeah it's um it's an invasive personal sort of thing that you went through and for something that really important to have happened there has to be a reason right yeah um okay so you're you got 55 mile drive to back to ellsworth back to ellsworth and i kept i even asked sergeant gray before we left i said well what about michael johnson don't worry about him he'll be fine sergeant hawkins is going to bring him back i said okay no problem so i got my stuff and got in his vehicle on the way back you know we talked about the whole thing from start to finish and what i saw i guess he was looking for something else other than what i had told him you know and he's and he even asked me says there's something else that you want to tell me that you haven't told everybody and again i would not say what i saw out that right window i didn't he was asking you yeah he was asking me is there anything else i wanted to say you know can you know what i saw that i didn't want it that i didn't say in front of everybody back at the at the launch control facility so i just i said no i said that's that's what i remember that's what i know and i just continued onward and you know we talked small talk you know and i didn't i tried not to i tried not to just discuss that the whole way back i only answered questions that he asked me and i'd look and say oh that's a that's a pretty cow over there along the road on the highway or you know this is a really beautiful country up here you know i just tried to get my mind and his questioning off of me for a little bit i guess that was kind of like the refreshing part of taking a bath in the sink you know was getting some of that off of me but i could tell he was concerned and he did say something concerned something about when his dad was young and he were fishing or something that they saw something but that's all he said he didn't say go into it anymore and i was you know i just tried to tell him i don't think he i don't think he could comprehend the size of this thing i really don't because i told him i said in my opinion i said it be at least at least the size of the satath building which was our security police main ops building back on base and which was a old b-52 hangar converted into office area and training area for us some people say the size of a football field they literally mean the size of a football field they literally mean the size of a football field they literally mean the size of a football yeah it really is the size of a football field yeah it really is the size of a football field yeah it really is the size of a football field and i think to our visitors size has no and i think to our visitors size has no and i think to our visitors size has no to meaning whatsoever they do whatever they whatever they need i guess i don't know but so 55 minutes back went into the box elder gate which is the back gate at ellsworth went to the sata building he brought me up to the side door i got my stuff my ditty bag and i followed him in went in front of um for me it was like one or two o'clock my wife had not been notified they wouldn't let me talk to her even when i was talking uh colonel ralph spraker's office door of course he had me sit on a bench outside the door and uh he was a security police commander and he's been a pretty good guy up to that time when i'd had interaction with colonel spraker but he and he knew me uh by name and they try to know everybody and and and also that there are uh about 800 security policemen on at ellsworth air force base whether they work aircrafts or they work missiles so about they said that one in four people that you'd meet walking down the sidewalk or in the bs would be extra commissary was a security policeman which was true which was i mean really was so when he came back out he was in about 15 or 20 minutes with the commander when he came back out he said all right he's ready to see you now he said report in so that meant you know a full a formal report in meaning i got up and uh my sergeant gray went back into the room went over to the right side of the room and uh colonel spraker's desk was like straight ahead uh maybe 20 25 feet is a rather large size so i hit him banged on the door you know like that and he said enter you know and i i walked up to his desk but then three feet of it and i said senior was reporting as ordered sir instead of detention until he told me i could go out at ease in which i did and not really looking but counting people as i went in there was a total of five people in there and there were three standing uh one standing and two sitting over to my left one young guy and i'm medium-aged guy maybe or middle-aged guy maybe in his 30s or so then there was a tall older man and he had on a like a gray tweed suit and a hat and he had the hat under his arm so i thought he maybe he was ex-military or something because you know you don't you don't wear your lid your cover inside any building at any time and then i had the deputy base commander was there uh besides uh colonel spraker colonel spraker was behind his desk and the in the deputy base commander sitting over to his right and uh he said well senior what seemed like you've had an interesting evening that's what he said interesting evening and i didn't i just looked at him and i said uh yes sir just that's all i knew to say because you want to tell us about it and i i said yes sir and i looked to my look to my left and i remember him saying something like don't worry about them because i thought maybe he'd introduce me to them or something this is so-and-so so-and-so but i i didn't rate that how ranked that high so they didn't have to tell me anything so i went through the whole thing of of uh telling them about flashing the light at this thing you know out to the east side of the side and where it was located in the sky and what i did and who i told because they had to be brought in and talked to as well it wasn't just me you had a crop right yeah everything everybody that was that was involved had to had to be talked to and uh tell them about michael johnson how he acted and again i asked i said how is michael johnson and i kept telling don't worry about michael johnson he'll be just fine this is just about you and what we're talking about in this room right now i said yes sir um and master sergeant gray he was sitting over to my he was over my right and he was standing he wasn't sitting either they went through everything i guess sergeant gray had had said something or told him a little bit about what happened i really don't know because he started uh colonel spraker started saying saying some things like well tell me about the size of this craft tell me about this tell me about you know this item that came down over the hood and that and around your vehicle what did you smell i told him i smelled and i i explained all that to him nobody ever questioned or said a word about any of that and this went on with questions and answers by me for about two and a half years and a half hours wow so i'd been up all that time and got into the base i guess it was about 10 10 10 30 that morning that's in his office still at 12 30 or so and uh the i knew he was pushing for me to say something about seeing he kept asking me did you is there anything you're not telling me is there anything you're not telling i said no sir i wouldn't just i wouldn't say what i saw at all out the side of that window how do you think they knew i have no idea and i hadn't said anything unless michael johnson had said something but i i don't know if he did i don't think he did i really don't know but i did get answers a few weeks later not by them but by michael johnson and i'll go into that well so and this man in the gray tweed suit you never find out who he is and i know that skinny a real skinny guy too yeah i thought tall he yeah he's tall and skinny gaunt like yeah yeah emaciated looking i was like what really what is this guy he needs to eat something i mean really i thought that he was old older 50s 60s somewhere like that and then the men sitting next to him was uh captain um jack reed and he was the uh osi uh commander or officer in charge at ellsworth at that time and sitting next to him was a young officer osi named rick doughty richard doughty yeah and i didn't know him from adam's house cat and uh this is early in 77 early in his career yeah i've never known him or yeah i didn't even think anything about him or but he was osi yes he was probably just on some training too like i mean that's what he's later told me he was there to study strict sat communications they had something going on with some communication activities that they didn't uh understand or something and he told me he it's so it's you know when you mention his name in this topic and for those who are not familiar with richard doughty he's got a sordid history with misinformation and really hard to take what he says at face value but you know if it were possible to take what he says at face value he's got to have some interesting stories oh my god if we were able to believe anything he said yes if he's in a room like that how many other rooms like that was he in exactly so okay but these uh this this tall gentleman as well in the tweed suit it was it was it bob jacobs who had mentioned no who's who who had mentioned bob jacobs who was the one who was the one who had mentioned the tweed suits uh there was another instance of uh gentlemen in tweed suits i think it was bob jacobs when he got debriefed oh okay all right going back to that yeah yeah when they were telling him like oh you didn't see anything or whatever anything don't ever talk about it again yeah there was a gentleman in tweed suits again um and it was a light gray as an ugly ugly suit even for 1977 i thought not military yeah no not military and and for a civilian to be in that room yeah i mean what the heck you don't get you don't get access to that type of thing as a civilian no especially you know the sensitive nature of the area let alone a sighting with some unidentified object you're sitting on a base that has nukes no civilian is just going to walk into a room of the colonel and listen in on some type of debrief like what is your position sir where are you from absolutely osi has to be there yes but this other gentleman dressed as a you know in in civilian garb is is unusual very unusual and that's the way i i didn't i felt i felt something from him i don't know what it was but i was i don't know i i knew where colonel spraker stood and i knew where the deputy base commander was standing i know what how they were feeling and you know they had to go look at radar they had to go look at a whole lot of things they i mean the tower would have would have picked that thing up yeah i never got a chance to go look at that thing up yeah i never got a chance to go look at that thing up yeah i never got a chance to go look at that thing up yeah i never got a chance to go look at that thing up yeah i never got anything i never got up yeah i never got a chance to go look at that thing up yeah i never got anything i never got up yeah i never got anything i never got any information concerning that i mean any information concerning that i mean any information concerning that i mean they just shut me down as quickly as they just shut me down as quickly as they just shut me down as quickly as possible possible possible and this and our talking our debriefing and this and our talking our debriefing and this and our talking our debriefing went on like i said two and a half or so went on like i said two and a half or so went on like i said two and a half or so hours a lot of things discussed there yeah hours a lot of things discussed there yeah hours a lot of things discussed there yeah and after what i'd already been through and after what i'd already been through and had a maybe they had information and had a maybe they had information and had a maybe they had information that we talked about there and not in that we talked about there and not in that we talked about there and not in the commander's office because it just the commander's office because it just the commander's office because it just seemed as if they had something pre-set up before i got there how did all pre-set up before i got there how did all pre-set up before i got there how did all how long did these people known about how long did these people known about how long did these people known about this before i even arrived how long had this before i even arrived how long had this before i even arrived how long had they been in that room and what had they they been in that room and what had they they discussed, that was a question that I brought to Rick Doty when I finally made communication with him in 2018, 2019, 2021. Did he give you any information that you deem valuable? He just simply said he knew of it and knew that there were two of us and that he was sent to medical to pick up our medical records because I was taken in the commander's staff car by a driver when our debriefing stopped in the commander's office. I was asked to go to the flight surgeon's office to be examined. So I did as I was told, and they all stayed behind. But when I got over, when that driver took me over to the hospital, to the flight surgeon's office, there were two flight surgeons in there. And when I got there, Rick Doty and that Jack Reed, they were already there. And this was the kind of examination room that had those, and it's important that I tell you this, they had those gray dividers of the 50s, 60s vintage that separated like examination rooms, and then they had like that wavy glass at the top of them. So they were on the outside of that looking toward where I was. And it was a nurse, and there were two of these flight surgeons when I went in there. And the taller one said to me, he said, Senior, what is it you said? You had an injury? It was an interesting evening, I understand. Again. So I just looked at him and said, yes, sir. He goes, asked me if I'm disrobed, which I did, and, you know, down to my underwear and a wet T-shirt. And so they examined me, eyes, nose, ears, throat, elbows, everything, and just talking and talking between themselves. They'd walk off for a second, and they'd talk. And that whole process probably took 30, 40 minutes to do that. And then the short one came over, and he reached into a box as he was talking to me, and he says, how are you feeling? And I said, I feel okay. I said, I'm a little tired. I haven't slept in a long time. And he reaches in to get one of these gloves and pops it on his hand. Well, you know, I immediately thought, you know, I wasn't ready for that, but I had to participate. That's one thing about the military. When they're going to do something, they're going to do it, you know. And so I had to participate. And I just kind of, okay, well, here we go. And he goes, do you mind if I, I need to look at your gums? I said, what? Michael Johnson was still in that hospital when I was there. I didn't see him, but I sensed him for some reason. I couldn't talk to him. He wouldn't let me see him again. He goes, I need to look at your gums. I'd never had braces or cavities or anything in my life. And, you know, I was always good on that point. And so I opened my mouth and this man took his thumb and his index finger and he spent about two, two and a half minutes in my mouth, just squeezing my gums really hard, pressing down. And he said, I need to look at your gums. And I said, I need to look at your gums. And in the hallway, there was a driver for the commander's vehicle. So I saw him, and he's an airman. Airman first, I think. And I didn't even say anything to him. I just walked out and got in the back seat of the vehicle. And I said, I remember saying something. I don't know what that was all about. But they didn't tell me a damn thing. And he didn't say anything at all. Drove me back to the SATA building, got out. He made sure I went to the commander's office, too. It seemed like they wanted to really watch everything that I did, where I went. You know, in going to those places, whether it be over to the examination area with the flight surgeons and then back to the commander's office, they didn't want to lose sight of me or something. So I go back in, and I got to do the formal report in again now. And all those people are staged back in there. This is a spectacle. And so I go back in and report in. Colonel Spraker, he doesn't really know me. He doesn't really tell me to stand at ease. I'm standing there at attention. And he says, he gives me a form and a pen. And he says, I'm going to put you in this little conference room right here. He goes, I want you to write everything that's happened to you. And what we've discussed, everything. He says, I want you to do a full report from when you first saw this thing to being picked, everything. He said, from A to Z, to being here. And I said, yes, sir. And I felt that wasn't the easy part. What I'd gone through already was the hard part. I still didn't know how I was going to explain this to my wife and the two Band-Aids on me. And mind you, I should have been in the missile field three days to come back the morning of the 4th. Well, I'd only been out one day. This happened now. I'm back in one day, you know, the next day. And I got Band-Aids on me. So this small. But the question was going to be asked, and I knew it, and I didn't know how to answer that. But so I went in there, and I sat down at this oak desk at the end of the, in these old wooden chairs, oak chairs. I just tried to take a mental picture of all these things, you know, because I knew they were going to be important some way or another. I don't know. I think to prove myself or something. So I took about the next hour and a half, maybe more, and I printed this whole thing. Oh. And any mistake that you made, you have to line through the word and put an initial on it. You know that. So I wrote from A to Z the entire incident. Michael Johnson's name, the initial. I even knew the time of the alarm. I mean, everything. All the other information was in the security police blotter at November control. So that would be turned in on the 4th day. Unless it was circumvented, they went out there and got it. I don't know. Because each blotter, when we arrived in the missile field, and this is where it really gets me, trying to locate Michael Johnson. Everybody's name. rank, and social security number is on that security police blotter. When you first get to the field, that's an entry that for every single person on that site, that information is there. So that is somewhere. And you could locate him by a social security number. I don't care where he is. If he pays taxes in this country, we could find him. But yeah, no, the Aero or FBI or anybody else, they've not done that yet. And I've challenged them to do so. So I write this whole thing up. It takes me a while and they're still out there. They didn't leave. I don't know if they're drinking coffee, what they're talking about, what they're doing. So I go back out there, go back to his desk, stand in front of him and attention, hand it to him, put it on his desk. He turns it around. He takes it. He's reading it, looking at it, looking at it, going through it. Fine-tooth combing, this thing's in carbon copy. It's three, three copies, you know, from, from one page. And I, and I had two pages of it and it's super, super printed small, but cause there's a lot of information there, you know? Yeah. I wasn't given a copy. I wasn't offered a copy of anything. And once that was done and it's signed, I signed it on the bottom, had my name, rank or social security number, everything on that form. He takes it, sits it on his, on the side, on his right side, on his desk. And then he motions over for Captain Jack Reed. He comes over and he's got a form. And that's the part where I guess I, you, I don't know if we called it a non-disclosure at that time, but they read me the riot act and said that everything said within this confines of this room and the people that know about this incident shall not speak about it to anyone else in any way, fashion or form, including, you know, spouses, brothers, sisters, anybody that only the people in this room shall know about this. And the people that are involved with the initial investigation from back in November control. And I agreed to it. So I turn around and turn it around to me. And I'm read pretty much everything I just described there. And I signed it and, and put my, I signed it, put my name, rank, and, and it was dated and everything. My social security number was on it. And, um, I wanted to ask, well, do I get a copy of that? I didn't, they wouldn't give me a copy of anything to medical records. No, no copy of any medical records at all. So once they were, were, I guess, uh, pleased with what they had after they read, reviewed, and they, I did have to go back into the other room while they talked amongst themselves for, I don't know, 10 or 15 minutes. I came back out and then I reported back, uh, to Colonel Spraker. And he said, uh, you can, you can call, you know, home or whatever you got to do to, to, uh, you can go home the rest of the day. So that gave me, you know, not only three, those three days, but it gave me an additional three days off, you know, to just ponder this whole thing and get this in my mind, because I knew it was going to be people, uh, especially who, you know, uh, my wife that I had to explain this to. And then of course there were friends of mine that I worked with. They're going to have questions. Well, they weren't even allowed to ask me questions, you know, and I didn't see any of them for a long, long period of time because they just keep you separated. And again, they never sent me back to November control. I went to Kilo control, which was the alternate command post. Wing security control is the command post for all activities in and around the missile field or every, all things that do with missiles. In the event that CSC security control or wing security control, however you want to call it, was compromised. Then Kilo control stands in as that control facility and direction because all the supervision and all the officers reside at Kilo control, which is right up next to the Wyoming border and is a sister flight to November control. So they had me there and put me with a guy named Mark Wade. We had the same initials. He was a really nice guy and, um, he knew about it. And he was the one that I saw two mutilated cattle with in the Kilo area early one morning, about, well, about 10 AM. We, we had to sleep on a missile site, uh, until maintenance team got there. And there was, uh, an investigation going on with local law enforcement, uh, at a corral area where there were two mutilated cattle and we stopped and looked at them. The missing skin, the whole deal. Trimmed around the mouth area. You know, and I, I didn't know anything about that. I did know about Linda Moulton Howell looking for them at that time or, you know, and there was another thing that I want to say is that when all this stuff started going on, the, there was a, that newspaper or the, um, everybody can't stand to read or inquire, they were, they had people going through all the missile sites, not the sites themselves, but Minot, Maelstrom, cause you know, like what had happened. Uh, to Robert Salas, you know, at Maelstrom, you know, and I was 67, wasn't it 67 and what had happened at Minot. So they had all these people out trying to gather these stories. And we were told, of course, you couldn't talk to anybody. You were told formally, yeah, you don't speak to anybody, any news media whatsoever. Uh, and they didn't call it news media. They just said news people at that time, they didn't have a word for media. And so that's where I had to live out the rest of the month. So my stay, uh, at Ellsworth air force base was a Kilo control with Mark Wade and which was okay. I just tried to put it all behind me and think that it would never happen again, you know, and, and it would all be forgotten about, but still the, the fact always remained that for weeks I worried about not doing my job. Was I going to be article 15 or what was going to happen to me, which didn't happen. And then what's article 15. That's a under the uniform code of military justice, where they see that you've done something, you know, unscrupulous or illegal, or you did some, you just did anything that they don't approve of and you cause damage or hurts. You know, there's many a thing, your hair can be touching your ear and a commander see you and, you know, you're out of 35, 10 standards, you know, like you can't have that beard, you can't have this. And they can article 15, you would say, suspend your rank for six months, take six or $800 from you or more. And it just, you know, you don't make that much money anyway. I mean, they make a lot more now than we did that. They use that threat quite regularly, right? All the time. Yes, sir. That's how they, that's how they keep you in check. Yeah. You're messed with your pension, mess with your rank, mess with your clearances, everything, everything that, you know, they, um, but anyway, uh, about 15, 18 days later, I was at home, my apartment still wondering. The whole time, Chris, where, where is Michael Johnson? I wanted to speak to that man so badly. I couldn't tell you. And all of a sudden I got this feeling and a knock came upon my door and my, my lived at, we lived at Hainesway apartments in rapid city. And he had talked to some guys back in the barracks about where I lived and sure enough, he came to my apartment to talk to me about it. And before he arrived that knock, when it came on the door, I knew it was him. I don't have a clue. How's why I'd never been to my apartment before. I'd never met him personally like that in civilian clothes. So I opened the door and I said, Michael, I said, man, how are you? He said, I'm okay. And with a direct look in my eyes, he said, we got to talk about this thing. And I said, yes, we do. I said, come on in. So he came in just a simple one bedroom apartment and, uh, because my wife was there and. I said, I said, well, she's going to find, I said, she suspects some things about what I've been having to go back to the base. And there was several times I had to go back and answer more questions, you know, but I tried to block those out and it was the same thing. And he just kept trying to see if there was something I wasn't telling them in which there was, and I wasn't about to tell them anyway. And, uh, so he comes in and I said, let's draw what we saw. I said, I gave him a yellow notepad and I had one too. And I said, I'm going to sit here. You said. I think I put him at the dining room table and I sat at the coffee at the coffee table at my couch and I drew the craft and all that and all that. And he drew the same thing. He, he remembered the bright lights. He remembered many things that I didn't even think he was aware of. And I told him, you know, the state that he was in holding on to that steering wheel. And I remember him saying something like, no, I wasn't. I said, yes, you are. I said, Garza and I had to pull your hands off of that. Steering wheel. You did. I said, yeah. What was his memory of it? Well, he said that he heard, saw and smelled everything that I did. And then he heard, do not fear. Do not fear. Did he see the beings? No, he didn't. Cause he didn't turn his head. Yeah. He didn't say that. But he felt the do not fear. Yeah. Who, who said this first? Was it you or him? Him. He told you before you told him. Yes. So he's. Opening up to you and he's, he's giving you the exact same things that you experienced. And he said, and I felt do not fear. And yes, do not fear. Do not fear. What was your reaction to that? I just stood there with my mouth open. I said, you're kidding me. I said, man, I was. freaking out. I said, you were just frozen to the steering wheel. He goes, I heard, he goes, I heard and saw, I saw everything. I said, did you see what was on the right side? He, no, he never saw that. You told him? Yes, I told him. What was his reaction to that? He didn't really have one. He just suspected it, but he didn't, I guess it was the angle or something, you know, my right side and his left side. I don't know, but he said one thing that floored me, man, to the pits of my stomach. And I said, what, what are you talking about? A glove on the shiny floor. I had a really specialized pair of gloves that a B-52 bomber pilot gave me my first couple of nights when I was at Ellsworth, when I first was assigned there. And I was staying in the BAQ, which is like the on-base hotel. And the rooms there are not single rooms. They're like shared with bunk beds. And the rooms beds, there might be 10 or 15 people in there one night, all come into the base, or there may be one person in there or, you know, that kind of thing. Cause whoever's arriving usually stays there until there's an assignment, you know, or till their rooms are assigned to them and they meet their commanders and people in their department, in their divisions the next month, the next day, literally. And, uh, so he gave me a pair of these aviators gloves, Chris, that came up to about right here now and fit on the outside of your parka, but they were like a mitten. They had, they covered three fingers. Then you had your index finger for trigger control for your, whatever your trigger was in an aircraft or on a weapon. And they had a fur backing and they were like a yellow gold color, beautiful glove. My dad had the same ones. You can't even find them today. I hunted everywhere for them. And, uh, I remember as a kid, we'd wear them and we'd just wipe the snot off our face with the, uh, you know, with the furry side and the cold. Well, that's what it's for too. It's for that. You just wash it off once in a while or maybe not. I remember your glove on a shiny floor and I had no recollection of a shiny floor. I said, what are you even talking about, dude? Michael, what are you talking about? And he goes, I'm telling you, Mario, your glove was laying. He said it was laying face up this way. Your right-hand glove was laying on a shiny floor. And I said, well, I said, the only thing I knew to do, I ran in my bedroom where I kept my ditty bag in the closet because my wife didn't want to see it. It had to be put away. So I grabbed my ditty bag and I came back out and the whole time this woman's just sitting over, she's sitting in one of the upright chairs, just watching this and listening to all this going on. I don't know in disbelief for what it was, but I unzipped that bag, man. And there's, you know, there's underwear, there's toiletries, there's all kinds of stuff, extra uniforms. There's a radio in there that you couldn't have cameras. Unfortunately, that's one thing they wouldn't allow us to do. And, uh, or take pictures of anything on the side or something like that. But so I just dumped my bag out on the couch. Everything was there except my right-hand glove. Left-hand glove was there. No right-hand glove never recovered that. So I guess they kept it or whoever, whatever kept it. But I couldn't believe he brought that up. And he said that to me, I saw your glove on a shiny floor. That's proof. Yeah. He, um, he lived in the barracks, like I say, and, uh, he gave me his address that day, his parents' address in Chicago, Illinois. And we talked, you know, talked to really, you know, he said he, you know, he loved to fish. And we talked about some things like that. Things we didn't get to talk about working together. We didn't get to discuss any of that stuff. And usually we all, as guys, we always do, you know, and like motorcycles or, you know, you ride a bicycle or you skateboard, you play, you know, whatever you might do, weightlift, whatever. We didn't get to talk about it. But we got to talk about a little bit of it that day. So I wrote it down on a, uh, a nice index card, something, and I put it in my Bible. The pastor gave me, my father passed away and I kept it up on a dresser and I had it for years, for years. And he wrote it, he wrote it. I might've recopied it or something, but he, I had all in, I had his information. I wish I'd had his social security number back in that time. A guy would probably give you your social security number and not think two things about it. You know, you can't do that today, of course, but back then it could have done that. I wish I'd have had something else I could have latched onto him later in years, because that, those thoughts have always been in my mind. What else could I have done to, you know, to wrangle him, to get him back in, if he's still alive, wherever he may be, he's the other half of this whole thing, you know, wherever he is, regardless of who's entwined in this history, he's the other half of this that I've just got to find. Uh, I've got a friend, Steve Zwemke, and he's in Rapid City. And, uh, he's the fellow that led me to the state trooper, uh, that took the call from wing security control to come and look for us. And that's perhaps something else I should address. Cause I didn't even find that out until, uh, that discovery plus in 2021. How long after the initial incident? I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. When you blacked out, was that call made? Well, it was made approximately two o'clock in the morning. So not too long after. So you were missing at that point. Yeah, we were missing. And not only that, but wing security control had contacted, um, the, uh, local law enforcement in Sturgis. They had a larger police force and they sent two deputies 30 miles North to where we were located looking for us. So we had a state trooper and two deputies in two different cars looking for us. And if you're out there, you'll see some of those guys. Yeah. And I think that's, I think that's a good thing. Somebody, if they're driving the car, you'll eventually see headlights. Yeah. Yeah. You absolutely. There's no way around it. You were, you were just not there. And we were so far off the, off the road, but behind new lake reservoir dam to start with, I mean, we just had to be located. And the only way to locate us was that radio signaling triangulation. Who knows where you were before that? Don't know. Uh, but what I was getting at, until 21 that these officers by the son of, of this, of the state trooper, his son came to November five or a hundred yards down from November five, because the producer didn't want to stand where our vehicle was located. Cause there's a cattle, uh, uh, some type of red and white, um, cattle production or storage facility on the, on the site now at November five. Uh, and do that because there's a rock bed there and they keep their hay and stuff up off the ground, you know, out of the, when they're feeding their feeding their cattle and stuff is this all ranching area. But, uh, so in essence we had, uh, about 11 people looking for us. And I never knew that. I was never told that a state trooper and two deputies are, were looking for us as well. You found out what year? I think it was 2021 when we went out there with discovery plus, and it was total by total, by total accident that they, these, these two guys even showed up watching this film on the side of the road. Like, and they knew your story. Yeah. They had seen it somewhere before or something. I'm really not sure. One of them had, and he told the other, but it was a crazy thing on Ormond road, uh, dirt road. And you can go all the way to Wyoming on that road, I believe. Um, there was a parade of people because, and you know, new was such a small town. The population today is six 50. It was two 30 at the time. And, uh, when they found out that it was a film crew out there filming on Ormond road. So we get this big parade of people coming by. And there was one guy that drove by in a pickup truck and he had two by fours in the, in an old pickup truck in the, in the little slots, you know, that's on the bed of the pickup truck around it. And he had chicken wire around it and he had a horse standing up in the middle, out in the back of that pickup truck. And we all just looked at that and went, wow, you know, it's such a place, man. It's, it's such a place there. You think there's other people in Newell that saw the craft? I hope there is. And what we thought that, um, there's a, there's a case in Newell though, in like the sixties as well. Right. Um, not sure. I think I read, I think I read about a flying saucer sighting, multiple flying saucers in the sixties in Newell. And in, I will tell you in, uh, uh, Sturgis there is and Deadwood. Yeah. Yeah. Big cylinder type craft. And in both of those areas. Prior to your, you know. But going back to that, um, I was so amazed when I found out that these guys knew that, that this took place. I just, I just feel so jilted by the way the air force ended up by what they did. And, um, or how they did it. I don't think they knew any better. I really don't. And if they did, if they did, then shame on them for, for treating their own people like that, you know, because when you go into military, regardless of what job you're in, you, you know, you're there, there's a chance that somewhere along the line that you could be involved in some kind of combat action and lose your life. Cause you're fighting for this country and the people in it. Cause you care about them. I do. I still do. I took the oath and that's never gone away from me. I'd, um, I'd go back today if they'd have me at 70 years old. in a heartbeat. But just to find those things out, it really floored me in that glove on that shiny floor. I've never forgotten that statement. I've never forgotten the ice bullet that he sent out when he said that to me. It just took me aback. And I just wished so badly that we could find him. Well, if anyone, if this rings a bell, if your family member is named Michael Johnson, if you've got a grandpa out there, a father, an uncle, a cousin that's in perhaps the Detroit area, or at least has family in the Detroit area and served in the Air Force at Ellsworth in the 70s, late 70s, mid to late 70s, reach out to us, figure it out. I got an email here. I would love anything. Any information you have on this, even if it's the tiniest bit of information, but this is the internet. And luckily with you on here and people watching, there is a chance that you can get an answer to this. Always. Just anything. Anything. I just want to know about him, whether he says, I don't want to talk to you or I don't want to come forward. It kind of reminds me of Terry Lovelace and Toby, his partner, you know? And Toby did not take it well at all from what I've heard. Terry's told me and ended up costing him his life, whether it be from, he had a problem afterwards. And it's very hard to contend with. And it's very difficult for people that care about you to hear about it and to experience it because it affects you every day. I'm not the same person at home that I am here telling you this. This thing affects me all the time. I watch stuff on the news. I watch stuff, you know, on TV or YouTube videos, you know, about people that I know that things like this have happened to. And it's all going somewhere. And I think, I feel at this point of the game that archaeology and what's being discovered in, say, for instance, Egypt, I think there's a lot to be said for in the correlation of all this coming together in some way. And I don't know if we'll, if our government or any government will ever say, okay, this is what we have. Throw it out on a table. Here's this piece. Here's that piece. We glean this information. That engine came from this piece right here. That happened. This happened. Here's an individual. Here's different types of individuals. I just don't see him saying that. I think the only way that could ever happen is if they in turn, they themselves just make themselves known and just shut everybody else up. Just say, here we are. What you going to do? What are you going to do now? And I don't think they're coming here to harm us. And I think they've been here a long time already and know everything about us. Well, let's talk about them for a second. You ended up getting regressed hypnotically by Bob Upton and Yvonne Smith, was it? Yeah. That was with John, yeah, John Butch's boat in LA. Like many people, and I've been able to actually hypnotize people through entertainment purposes as a magician. I've dabbled there and I've studied it and I have friends who do it professionally for entertainment. It's very real. And for someone who, I know the feeling because I've seen it happen to people so many times, the feeling of, oh, you can't hypnotize me. Those people getting hypnotized. And it is quite shocking to people, especially people who don't really believe in hypnosis. Right. To watch someone you know and trust and love and understand be hypnotized. Absolutely. You see that and it changes you. It changes you. You go, oh, wait a second. He just hit an off switch on him. That's so strange. So you, and I say this because I want to preface, you were that person. You were like, I don't, not for me. That's right. Yeah. Could you tell us what happened? Yeah. Robert Upton, Bob Upton, he was trying to zoom into specific items or points of interest that Robert Hastings had put forth in hypnotizing me. And the way he did it, it just seemed as if I was, as if I was going to sleep. And I remember it because they were roofing my house. Excuse me, just after a hurricane, they were re-roofing my house. I had damage. Because it's at your home. At my home. Yeah. In my, in my back bedroom. So you could hear all these guys with nail guns and walking across the roof. And even though my roof, my roof is very high on my home, you could still hear it. And I thought, well, there's no way he can be able to hypnotize me with all this noise going on. And that hadn't been planned. He had set it up for that. I think he drove up from Jacksonville. I live in Brunswick. And there may have been, may have been further away than that. I'm, I can't remember yet, or I just don't recall. But so anyway, but all this stuff going on, he somehow manages to get me to think and I'm going down a stairwell or something. He said into the water. And I kept thinking about that noise correlation to going down a stairway and what, you know, like there's a couple of places I've been in my life, like in springs and stuff where you walk down a stairwell into the stairway into the water, like blue sinks and some of those places. And that's what I did. And, and before I knew it, I was smelling that smell and visualizing, you know, certain things that he was asking me questions about. And he was guiding me. You know, in this, and there were things that I came up against, visions that I saw, uh, that really, really upset me. Are they coming to you now? Yeah. Um, I answered all of his questions. It was very difficult because I had like a lot closer reaction. Uh, proximity to what was on the right side of our vehicle, to these, to these beings on the right side of the vehicle. I mean, I literally, maybe it was my heartbeat, but, um. Okay. So he was in control. That little thing was on the other side of the vehicle. The little craft was on the other side of the vehicle. And what was Michael doing? He was still looking straight ahead. I don't even think he could blink his eyes. Okay. Was in a couple of, within a couple of feet of, of them. They were within a couple of feet of me and I was on my back. And I had a whole lot of pain in this wrist right here. My hand was turned outward like this and I was being grappled in some way here. from this direction. And something was putting pressure down inside of my wrist here. A tall one was doing that to my right wrist. It's like in and out glimpses of a living nightmare. And that smell, that smell just, it just permeates, just goes through you. And you can't get rid of it. I knew there was something wrong with me because it seems as if you come up to a veil. I want to call it a veil. Like there's something in front of you that stops you from looking past it. That, uh. Extremely excites. I don't know. I don't want to call it fear. It's something that you have to get past to see what's on the other side, though. And that's why I call it a veil. And when I did, I felt like I shook myself apart. I felt like I was just shaking, shaking apart inside. And somehow or another, I managed to get myself into AFib. I'd never had that before, never knew what it was, never had any kind of heart issues whatsoever. And I remember he kept telling me that, you know, nothing could harm me, nothing could harm me, but believe me, where I was, everything was harming me or trying to. And then I didn't, I couldn't understand what I was really experiencing. And I guess after about 45 minutes or so, and I answered every question he said, I went through every question. question that he asked me, I went, I answered everything as best I could, but that veil persisted. And when I broke that, when I went through that veil, as I feel as if I did and saw what I saw and still see it right now, even looking at you, I still see it just like it can just push over a vision. And I just see, I just see. I just thought my heart was going to come out of my chest. At no time could you hear any of the stuff going on on my roof or anything like that. That was all the stuff, all the noise that was taking place up there and all the work was being done. And he, he got to a point where he felt as if he had to, he had to get me out of it. I'd answered everything he asked me. And when he brought, when he brought me up, I knew there was something wrong, but I did tell him one thing that, that I think surprised me. And that was, that I knew there was something wrong, but I did tell him one thing that, that I didn't know. And I told him, I said, those big, the, the, those big dark eyes that these, the little ones have, they're shields. They're not, um, they're not their eyes. It's a shield that, that, uh, shields them from bright light because their eyes, I saw round pupil about that big around is huge. What color? Blue. Light blue? A medium, blue, not light or dark blue, but just the medium blue. And I, and I saw it plain as day. I mean, right there in my face. And that's the thing with, um, with hypnosis, how it, what it can, well, how you can do, uh, I guess how you can bring a vision to you like that. Was that the tall one? No, that was a short one that had the eye thing. The, the tall ones are completely different. The tall guy, whether it's a guy or whatever, I don't know, but that's where the fear is instilled. The little, the little ones don't make you have that kind of fear. But that big one did, and that tall one did. That big one, you'd think that he's got ready to eat you or something. And there's not a damn thing you can do about it. You don't have any control of yourself. You have no functionality of your own body. You can't defend yourself. Structurally. And, uh, then, uh, the, I think of, I think there was a, uh, there was a male, the one that was, uh, that I cussed at or whatever I said that I was, um. You cussed at it? Told him, uh, told him he's hurt me, you know? And, uh. And you couldn't move? Yeah. And the other thing was the, uh, this table that, that I was on. For instance, that's my head. This is the table that I felt, and I got to draw this just right. But looking at it in this way, this was like some type of a field that was projected this way over my body and my, my hand was up through it like this. And they were reaching down into this, like some type of a. Psychic veil or something? I guess on the crack, which is as if my hands and their atmosphere and I'm in my own atmosphere, but something that you could be pulled in and out of, or, or parts of your body moved in and out. Was it invisible or was it. Blue, a blue hue. Like a, yeah, I mean, it's not, it'd be just like something. Opaque or. No, it's. Like glass or gas or. Projected almost something, something that like a field generated in, in, uh, and you are, you're inside of it, but we know what he was doing, what if it ended up being a female, I heard a female voice. But you heard a voice. Yeah, just in your ears, you know, in my body and it was female, it was a female, it was a female voice that we're not, you know, not hurting you or we're not hurting you or something like that. I, I, I don't know the exact word, but we're not hurting you or we're not hurting you. It never moved her. Bells. No, they talk to you inside and talk to it. Check. Bell or something. They talk to. Something that they put in you. It resonates. And then I was, I was cussing and that's what I remember about that. You were, you were, you were yelling, physically yelling. I don't know if I was yelling, but I was cussing because I was hurting. Yeah. I was afraid and I was hurting. There's a lot of pain. Do you think, do you think the pain was fear induced or do you think that it was like real pain? Like it was real, it was real pain. Yeah. Burning. Real pain in my, in that wrist. And I always think about that right now. My hands, I don't know if that has anything to do with anything. Uh, my hands are completely numb and, uh, there's other things going on. I do have two marks on my body besides those burns. I have two marks, both of them. One is under my left arm. The other is on my left ankle. I sent you pictures of those also. And, uh. I, I don't have answers for all of it. You know, I really don't. And people can say or think what they want, but I, I only know what I experienced and what I've gone through. And it's been 48 years ago for me. But there's, there's so much more. There's so much more to the whole thing that is, is, is, uh, sometimes it's just very difficult to, to arrange it all. To, to, to tell it. It just, and recalling things like this, sometimes more comes back than what I went in with. You know, I pick up more than, than I first started with. And you got to process that. Yeah. Did you, you see Michael? Yeah. And with, um, Yvonne, with Yvonne Smith, um, he was laying opposite to me in, in a direction. Like he was facing the opposite direction, which I was. And when I talk about this little, the little guy with the blue eyes, he was between both of us. And there was a hand on me right here. And I don't know if that was for a calming effect, but I'm shaking like hell about it right now. But I don't know what that, and mind you, this is, hypnosis is extremely, you know, speculative. I have never, ever said that I've been abducted. I've never said that because I don't know that for real. I only know what visions came into my mind and through hypnosis, but I don't recollect physically of ever being abducted. I know I've had close proximity and I know I've smelled them. I know I've seen them, but that's as far as I'll go with that. I understand. Yeah. Yeah. Yvonne Smith. She's very good. She's very good at what she does. And I think that that's when I learned different things in this hypnosis with, uh, about Michael and about seeing the visions that I've seen because, and that doesn't even include the dreams that all this, that comes with all of this from, from the very beginning, from within a couple of days of after this whole thing's happened, you know. Dreams of them or dreams of other things? Dreams, apocalyptic type things, tidal waves, desert underwater, uh, uh, earthquakes, the sun blast from the sun, things that you, nuclear explosions to, I mean, I've even felt the heat from a dream in a nuclear explosion. I've even felt the heat from, from a blast of, you know, that would be, you'd be vaporized of course, but. I've done that and, uh, felt that, but she, when she hypnotized me, we were on, uh, we were on the water on a large boat on a large craft and it was, and would on the dock where seals and, uh, in, in LA right there by, by long beach. And, um, they were so loud. Like. Barking dogs on an aluminum, on an aluminum, those aluminum floating docks they have there. And that was the night we had, we had, um, that was a super cold night we had, or they had in Los Angeles when it snowed, even on the Hollywood signs, there was snow and ice and it went from, I don't even know what the temperature was when I first arrived there, but it got cold as I don't know what, man. And then that was when we finished, um, that night, age of disclosure, when I finished filming that and, and it was a word cause I had to fly out the next day. So I went with, with, uh, John blitch and then, uh, Yvonne. came down to do this hypnosis for us and uh but i think being over water had a greater effect than being than laying on a bed on you know in a home in a you know on concrete versus directly over water because relaxing yeah it was a lot different seemed like it was more conductive and her questions were just crisp and clear there was no that there wasn't anything that was shrouding them in any way you know to it uh it just was a whole lot easier for some reason and i was afraid of of afib again because i've been in it uh a couple of times now just happens and it just happened from that first initial time then um uh with bob up then then to her but i knew i had a pill and she she was we didn't record it we she verbally we um recorded the audio we didn't have any kind of ability to record it you know live but um they're on camera and she had this i had this pill uh my doctor had given me amyadarone i think is what it's called and he told me if i ever felt symptoms of afib dr strickland did to take one of these so i had it with me and she had it in her hand the whole time about melted it away it was okay though and um she's super nice lady and we've talked several times back back then but some of those visions are are are almost indescribable the the things that uh that i've seen you know as far as like dreams go or apocalyptic stuff and i just hope none of that ever happens do you think that's from them showing that to you i don't know i don't know where else could it could have come from other than that i don't know if if they put things in your mind and maybe push you in one direction or to think of a cure for something or were you were you shown anything on the craft by them according to the hypnotic regressions and not to your conscious memory um. a room with old things in it like an old i sent you a drawing of that old box tv an old uh wrought iron iron yeah pull lights that go from the floor to the ceiling it's like a room of antiques and i was allowed to go in this room and on the back wall there's a there was a round window and it had a slice taken out of it like it was just a slice taken out of a round circle that was a that was a window and i was like oh my god i'm so sorry i'm so sorry i'm so sorry i'm so sorry i was told i could go look out this window by a small one by a small gray you were told in your head i was so in my head and i'm i'm kind of laughing about it i'm i'm playing what are all these old things in here for you know this old box tv and a oh and a old wooden radio you know like real old and uh but i was i wouldn't look out the window i was too afraid and then i started noticing things around me and i was like oh my god i'm so sorry i'm so sorry i'm so sorry i'm so sorry and then i started noticing things around me because i was allowed to stay for just a few minutes or so and even the walls and the baseboards were powered everything in it was it was was like alive the shelving had lights in it much like but your contract like those kind of lights everything had lights in it was touchable was energized everything there was nothing that was you know stagnant like um like that wall right there it was all it all had something it all had energy yeah it all had energy everything even in the antique room uh not the items themselves but what where they were yes all of it the shelving the the supports and and then as i left there as i was left led out of there by a little guy i'm walking in this hallway and it's all alive and an open area opens up a vast open area that's just huge and there's just like a lot of things that are there and i'm like oh my god i'm so sorry i'm so sorry i'm so thousands of them and and uh like those lights right there just thousands of them up in these little cubicles just as far as you could see and and right and left and up and down they were just everybody was like ants having a job or something and i just kept following him and i and then i turned left into a room and the room was full of steam and i followed him in there he vanished in the steam and i followed in there and i woke up and i don't know what i don't know what i don't know what that was but you know hypnosis again that's is a strange thing and dreams are strange i dream some really some really crazy dreams sometimes when when you think back to the memories or the visions that you got during your regression do they feel similar to the dreams you had or do they feel more similar to seeing the beings that you had in your dreams i don't know beside your truck oh it feels real it feels more like the latter it feels more like the latter yeah that's a good question never been asked that before there's sometimes when i can when i go to sleep i can go back into that same part of that dream and continue on if that's a dream in that big room yeah all of it i mean in smell was the smell present in that room as well was it all it was but it wasn't as as pungent it was just there maybe i'd had more time in it or something and gotten more used to it got more used to that makes sense that's what i have to i have to straighten these things in my mind you know i i if not you just might as well lock me up somewhere i guess you know and and you know what i want people to understand is that it's uh if you have a loved one at home and you and you live and and partake in this field you have to be uh very aware of how it affects them and uh i never meant to put anybody through anything that's happened to me you know or to you know to i'm not an expert in any of this in any way but i never i've never meant to um like upset my wife or the you know like my wife now she didn't deserve any of this i didn't tell her till 1995 and i just i just ate it and lived with it until i didn't have a clearance anymore acute clearance that's when when i lost my job at y12 facility or actually i was at k25 at that time when the big layoffs were occurring and that's what happened to me i went out with about 10 000 people believe it or not there was that many people in the oak ridge area and all of them at one time oak ridge had more phds there than any other place in the world and i was like oh my god i'm not going to do that and i was like oh my god i'm not going to do that there than any other place in the country and now they have all moved in there or in los alamos and uh i can't understand how they took sean kirkpatrick over to or now i just blows my mind where i came from there he there he is now i just i wish i got monday i'll have a chat with him but that was really bad how arrow did that whole thing and that first set of interviews they did with people well you um you testified yeah in four arrow four hours and 19 minutes four hours and 19 minutes and you said what you said to me everything and then probably some too yeah and of course it's it's under oath per se yeah as a of course they read you a whole litany of things that you have to agree to before you ever do it and of course it was always to talk about congress and that kind of thing but sure it's like one guy told me he said they're not ready to talk about what you saw at that right side of that window or any of your dreams or hypnosis which i wouldn't talk about that anyway i want i can only talk about what in the physical conscious world that i saw smelled and experienced still too much yeah they can't do they want to light in the sky yeah they just want to light the sky at a far distance yeah you know that's one thing i i kind of but that's not you know your fault no you know what i mean like that's you you out of all this are like such a brave person for stepping forward you know you're a brave person for stepping forward and you're a brave person for stepping forward for talking about this knowing full well full well you know what some people might think and like there's there's no good reason to talk about this stuff no for anyone coming out being reluctant like i get it you know what i mean like and you get it more than anyone like yeah what's the point of coming out if the very people who are supposed to fight for transparency are the ones denying yes denying flat out that there is any correlation between these nuclear bases and the ufos like even even that which is so far from where we are with this story they're not even willing to go there like you know it's it's kind of this it it's aggravating and it must be aggravating for you it is it's the same people that told you if we have questions we'll call you yes what do you mean if you have questions you have questions what about me like what about you we're we're who's answering those freaking questions like this is unbelievable the the best part about all that they call you and they get you on the phone for an hour two hours interview you on the phone there's two or three of them and they tell you there's only one guy which is BS. One of the best books that's helped me is Out of Time by Steve Aspin. I know you know who he is, and he just wrote a second book, and I can't recall the title right now. I've got it in my bag in there, and I've been reading on it. There is such a correlation with this in time, and his book has helped me to think about this because I think that time was displaced where I was or in that vehicle. However humans can understand that, I honestly felt that there was something to do with time and how they did what they did in the time in which they do it, but they understand that much better than I. He's brought about a lot of really good ideas and findings in his book, Out of Time, which is a book that I've been reading a lot about. I've been reading a lot about the history of out of time, and I've been reading a lot about the history of out of time, and I've been reading about the history of out of time, and I've been reading a lot about the history of out of time, and I've been reading a lot about the history of out of time, and I've been reading a lot about about the history of out of time, and I've been reading a lot about the history of out of time, which I have found a whole lot of correlations in his book as the way I feel and what I think about. The other thing is that when Arrow does these interviews, and I don't think they're going to be doing them like they did before. I think it's gone way above that now. I just don't think they have the credibility any longer to talk to anybody, because a lot of us felt pretty jilted by that whole thing, you know? Not only do they want you to testify if they call you before Congress, they want you to pay your own way up there, pay your own hotel bill, and everything, and all associated expenses, like you just got an extra, you can just go to D.C. You know how expensive D.C. is. You can just go there with three or four extra thousand dollars that you've got laying around to testify before people are just going to look at you. Look at you and say, laugh at you, or whatever they're going to do. I don't know, but I sometimes worry that you can say too much, because I just want the truth to be told. I don't want any embellishments. I don't want any type of guessing. I don't want any type of information concerning myself to be put out there that's not something that I said, did, or adhere to. I've had several times where things have been said that I didn't say or that I didn't do, and it just really bothers me. The reason I One of the guys at Arrow that interviewed me, or it wasn't, no, it was Congress that interviewed me to go before Congress, kind of made fun of me and said, and I have his name and his phone number and everything. And I just, I kind of said something to him that I hope it resonated with him, but he said, well, just keep doing what you're doing, he says, and we'll let you know when we'd like to hear from you or something. And that's after we spent two and a half hours on the telephone. My time is as valuable, if not more to me than it is than, you know, than to him. I think, man, where do you. Where do you think you're coming from by talking like that to people? And that's why a lot of people don't want to do that, don't want to go before Congress or whatever, but. I think what you're doing here will resonate on a deeper level with the people listening than watching it on a C-SPAN feed. Oh. I do. I appreciate that. I just want to do the right thing. I want answers. Yeah. And that's. That's as everybody else wants answers. And I'm not trying to put down anybody else to obtain those answers. I only know what happened to me and to Michael Johnson, more or less, until he comes forward. And that's all I know to relay. You know, everything else, people are putting out some brilliant publications and books on the subject matter. So that's increased everybody's knowledge. And we'll continue to do so. And I'm just looking forward to the future and just where this is all going. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I'm 100% there. If not, just to witness your relationship with Egypt, because I know that, you know, you speak about it. And it's, you know, it's hard to. It's hard to talk about these things. It's hard enough to talk about these things. You know, I get your reluctance in not wanting to, you know, go full on into all of these conspiracies or whatever, because you have to keep some of these things in mind. the eye i i like the i like the idea a friend of mine george saint pierre ufc fighter yeah he's extremely invested in paleontology and ancient archaeology in the ancient astronaut theories and he went there and because you know he's a pretty big celebrity yes he got this personal tour of the king's chamber and they you know guys with guns and everything and they blocked off the door for him and they put him in the sarcophagus whatever that is yeah and the guy stood in the corner of the room and just started humming like like this type of deal and he goes i've never felt that type of vibration and it wasn't loud it was just your body was thrumming like a tuning fork absolutely and for someone who's left his body i know what that feels like yeah like that's the feeling of having it and i want i will oh my gosh i'm gonna do it i'd like to take a tuning fork i've got a couple of tuning oh yeah i'd like to bang do some experiments what they do yeah well if you ever leave your body come say hi i will you come say hi and be like what are you doing i don't know if i'd come back you know what i mean if i you know depending on where you go i guess i don't know if i'd come back but do you think there is a relationship between the beings that you saw and egypt yes you think that that is them i don't know if it's them exactly but they know that technology and in my opinion and uh they know it's true function or functions i should say there's an interesting also an interesting correlation there are a few interesting correlations obviously you know the smell you know we didn't really uh touch on but like you know since you've probably come across a lot of similar cases that have said the same thing with the ammonia sulfur smell yes for instance i'm reminded i think the most famous case of which other than whitley streber because he also had like burnt hair cardboard smell like this putrid sort of scent but james fox's documentaries in virginia yeah yeah with these beings what was that like hearing about that oh um that was brazil right now yeah that's brazil i just the whole town stunk up yeah it and they were seen i mean that's the thing about they were seen how do they how do they hush that up so quickly how is that just put under wraps so quickly how can the government or anybody else move on that because many people saw hundreds of these i mean yeah saw them and how's that stopped how can it be our cell phones collected or cameras collected they search homes how did they slow that down but it brings me back honestly to 1961 when everybody Those three craft above that, those church steeples at Dequeen Elementary, and nobody talked about it. Like it was forgotten about. It seemed to say we're gone. It was all over. There was nothing else to talk about. All day, the rest of the week. My mother didn't even really mention it any further. How's that happen? It's a good question. It's a great question. I'd love to know. How's that happen? And I think about it all the time. I think, well, why wasn't that talked about all day long? Well, where's the newspaper clippings? Because, you know, people always read the newspapers back in the 60s, you know? It wasn't the news like we have today. And what news there was, it was pretty real news. You know, you had Walter Cronkite, all the rest of them, you know? But you would have had to. It's either one of two options. It's either somehow the beings or the technology is responsible for that within that bubble or whatever that is. Or there's a psychological factor that just happens when you're faced with something so foreign. You know, I'm reminded of James Fox once again, out of the blue, where he had the Phoenix Lights sort of fly over this town. And there's this story of these ladies having tea. And they're just having tea. And all of a sudden, they're looking at this craft fly over this massive craft. Yeah, it was huge. Going right over them so slowly. And they all just silently watch it go by. And the second it's out of view, they go right back to drinking tea. And you go, what? How does that happen? Yeah. What do you mean? How would you not scream, run? And the truth is. Grab a camera. Take off in a car after it. Yeah. I'm reminded of a movie. I forget what the movie is. But there's this one really shocking scene where there's this elderly couple. They're sitting in their backyard. And behind them, the camera's facing them. Behind them, you see a Boeing 747 or something coming towards them. Very small, but it starts getting bigger and bigger and bigger. And eventually, when it's kind of like maybe that big in the sky, big enough to be like, what's going on? They get up. And they both, and you see them both looking at this object getting bigger and bigger as it gets close to them. And they're just staring at it in disbelief, thinking, well, what's going on? Like, what is that thing? And not until it was too late did they go and start moving away. And then they got hit. Yeah. It was like they were frozen watching it. And I said to myself, you know, that's probably how it would really happen. You wouldn't run and scream and wake up your neighbors and be like, we got to go. The plane's going to crash. You would stare. You wouldn't stare at it until it hit you right in the face. You really, yeah. Because you're wondering, what the hell am I looking at? Mm-hmm. I don't know what you're looking at. It's when you realize what you're seeing. Yeah. And I would put that on a damn T-shirt because that's. That moment. That moment in time for me, as I said, it really wasn't. When I realized what I was looking at is when I really just went. Really large one. Craft. Craft. And what's described a craft. It's a realm. It's a realm. It's a sphere. Yeah. Was that the realization? Other beings. And then, yeah, just beings from elsewhere. Just beings. I don't even call them aliens. I'll just, I'll just call them. Other people. Yeah, other people. Other beings is what I thought. I'm afraid to leave the vehicle. I should have just stepped out. I'm just kidding. It's okay. You're safe now, Mario. We're just looking at a movie. I mean, that must be such a eye-opening experience of like, oh my God, it's all true. Oh my God, everything is true. It's all true. They exist. They're here. You know, it's. That approach from where they were and how they got. They never. They weren't touching the ground, man. They were just gliding. They weren't on the ground. They were just all, there was no heads going up and down. As you see, you know, it was no, it was no bobbing and weaving. Like you'd have an aligned formation of soldiers marching. It was just straight on, just straight on. Just the, and the tall one, you know, he had, he had this thing on his chest. That was the same color as this, um, as that. The wand. Wand that was in that one's. What color was that wand? Uh, the tip of it was like a, like a yellow, like a bright orange, yellow. And the rest of it. Uh, I couldn't see the rest. It wasn't, it was just that, that piece was lit up on the end of it. And then, but his chest, it, that thing on his chest was lit up and it was a good size. It wasn't just a little thing. It was like that size on this, on his chest. And it was the same color as that, as that thing. Was it circular? No, it was shaped like a, like a, I guess, like an octagon. Like a stop sign. Okay. Similar to that. And maybe not the exact same, but it was twisted in kind of that way. And then the, their heads were down here and he was this much taller than they were. So he was two feet or so taller than, than the smaller, than the smaller ones. And they weren't gray, gray. They had like a purplish tint to them in some way, their. Their head, their, their head, their, what I could see is flesh or whatever the outer color of their body is. It wasn't, wasn't gray. It was a, well, this color is not that far off and I'm colorblind. So just help me out here, but. Is it because of, did their skin look like it was thin? Yes. And like bruised almost? No, just, just real thin. Like you could almost see the veins through there. Yeah. Or see anything through it. Yeah. Yeah. And that's why it might've been sort of blue colored, almost like. Possibly. Possibly. They, they, they were just real different colored. And the tall one was a, he was a gray color, a gray silver color. Like a solid gray. Yeah. And his, the facial structure was a whole lot different, much pointier chin. Longer, yeah. Yeah. And the eyes were like set a little bit higher, but not, not traditional almond shaped eyes. They were just different. They weren't as, they weren't long this way. They were just an almond shape, but they weren't. Taller, like up, facing upwards. Yeah. They, they weren't, they weren't like, they weren't like that right there. They were just, they were smaller, smaller eyes with, uh, not that angular shape on them at the end like this. They were, they were more rounded that way, but it still had a little shape to them, but it was just different. But I didn't, I wasn't worried about him. I wasn't worried about that. The little one, it's just like, uh, I was told to look at that one. I was told to look at that, look at that, look at that, look at that. You were told to? That's what I feel. I don't remember any words. I don't remember doing it. not fear do not fear but i kept looking at that and and you know i pull up behind a car today in a vehicle in my vehicle or something or on my motorcycle and i just have to be real careful not to look at a light for too long because that that memory comes back to me all the time that that image comes back to me daily i noticed yesterday at the restaurant and it happened like there was a there was a jug of uh i was a crunk yeah stainless steel jug it was a crunk it was like polished chrome yeah and you you had to get up mid-conversation to just turn the jug yeah it was reflecting and it was right inside of my eye and i and i can't sleep with anything like these lights i can't that has to i put i put tape over it's a trigger yeah anything like that wow anything and it's just so strange you know the the whole thing who would have ever thought growing up you know from a youngster to a to a man that you'd see something like that in your lifetime and and just have to just deal with it i couldn't think of a better person to to to hold this because it takes someone strong mario it does take someone really strong to be able to to live with this and to talk about it but you're also someone like i said you're you've got such a lot of experience and you've got a lot of experience such a sharp recall you are on a program that tested you regularly for your mental faculties you are like there is in my opinion no better person thank you well than to than to speak about this than you i i i firm i firmly believe that there are a lot of people out there that are really credible that have their stories but i think you provide something that no one else has provided so far and it's the level of conscious detail plus the credible the the sort of credible background that comes that comes with it and for congress to even ignore that well they won't i mean they won't forever but i i hope not but for them to ignore it as long as they have tells me you know there's there's some part of that system that's acting out of bad faith yeah i called tim burkett's office and got some guy on the phone one day and i told him i said look i used to work at y12 i said nk25 and been to the lab plenty of times and i said uh burkett had put out something about if you know if there was something that you needed to tell him concerning this measure you know to to let him know and i was gonna let him know because i mean i know where he lives there i think maryville's where he lives and i lived over in kingston or living harriman actually we did and uh i called her twice never heard a word back from anybody over there and and that's okay too you know it really you you can't they have to come to you you can't you can't go to them it just seems that way and i'm just gonna i'll just let it ride until they do come in and of course that lieutenant colonel i spoke with at arrow when he interviewed me that was a really strange thing seemed like a real nice guy and and uh he's an army i guess army intelligence and uh he said something that uh he goes well you know he said you're one of the only ones that you were actually on duty responding to an incident when this happened to a to a lawyer and he said well you know when this happened so it's not a story it's an incident and i said you never thought about that but you're right and i said well who else has done it he says i can't think of any so that's one thing they have to they have to separate i mean it actually happened on duty and for people that that really want to know about this stuff i just don't understand i one of my best buddies in the world is an f4 pilot and uh we were at moody air force base together and even shared a house downtown in valvosta together for a while and uh you know pilots are super great people man i do anything for pilot and i and he got me in an f4 simulator all the time and then i i'd live my life in that simulator every time you could fly you fly jet i damn sure try or crash trying but with no g suit you know you can't get above 10 000 feet because you got to breathe and uh of course uh i could never land the damn thing so so my thought was if you know if i was in a in a in something you know of course that was an f4 that's not an f16 f15 22 or the rest of them today i i have no idea about them but i'd sure like to uh but i always figured that if something happened and i could get to get to it crank it up you know with a with a ground power unit and it had a fuel in it at least i could take off and of course just punch out to get out of a combat area that's you know because i guess when we when we left vietnam there were f4s on the tarmac they had to blow them up you know and there's a lot of security policemen that actual air force security policemen that died defending the runway while pilots and and civilians got off in uh aircraft you know because when they overran the whole place you know but there was some people lost their lives there i just thought i'd maybe have a chance if that were to happen ever so you got to think about that survival plan b you know yeah but i'd like to um i'd like to also say that people in congress just need to have a little more open mind and they need to they really need to talk to people that have up close and personal experiences with this this is not something that passed by me at 1500 miles an hour or uh was off in the far distance in any way and like i said i love all all my pilots i love those guys man navy air force marines i don't care i they're great guys man teeth you know teeth with bugs in it and hair on fire and they're just they're going full speed ahead man i like that but what happened that night on november 5 was up close and absolute personal and uh no matter whether they ever hear me or not i live with that and i know what i saw i know what i smelled and i know what i experienced and there's another guy out there just and there's another guy out there just and there's another guy out there just like me and it's up to them to find him like me and it's up to them to find him like me and it's up to them to find him i told the fbi interview with the fbi here i told the fbi interview with the fbi here i told the fbi interview with the fbi here a few months back about seven or eight a few months back about seven or eight a few months back about seven or eight hours with them on the phone hours with them on the phone hours with them on the phone even interviewed my sister down in uh even interviewed my sister down in uh even interviewed my sister down in uh florida florida florida about our incident we saw in poor author about our incident we saw in poor author about our incident we saw in poor author texas's kids and texas's kids and texas's kids and my sister has seen two tic tacs my sister has seen two tic tacs my sister has seen two tic tacs and where she lives near dade city and where she lives near dade city and where she lives near dade city florida florida florida yeah and they even asked her about that yeah and they even asked her about that yeah and they even asked her about that it was it was good for her she uh that it was it was good for her she uh that it was it was good for her she uh that it really made her feel good you know it really made her feel good you know it really made her feel good you know but um i would just i would just honestly like to see them really investigate this like to see them really investigate this like to see them really investigate this i don't know what military forces are or i don't know what military forces are or i don't know what military forces are or or personnel are blocking congress or personnel are blocking congress or personnel are blocking congress or personnel are blocking congress the people we elect and pay the people we elect and pay the people we elect and pay to find these answers for us to find these answers for us to find these answers for us and the people that are in the military and the people that are in the military and the people that are in the military or all the services or or all the services or or all the services or or the cia or the nsa or or the cia or the nsa or or the cia or the nsa or the fbi they have to be held accountable the fbi they have to be held accountable the fbi they have to be held accountable somebody's got to answer these questions somebody's got to answer these questions somebody's got to answer these questions and you know it's a dead gum shame and you know it's a dead gum shame and you know it's a dead gum shame because a president only gets four years because a president only gets four years because a president only gets four years or a re-election for four more years or a re-election for four more years or a re-election for four more years but yet but yet but yet a lot of these senators and all in a lot a lot of these senators and all in a lot a lot of these senators and all in a lot a lot of people they stay in there for a a lot of people they stay in there for a a lot of people they stay in there for a lifetime lifetime lifetime so what kind of power did they develop how so what kind of power did they develop how so what kind of power did they develop how unfair is that unfair is that unfair is that to to the rest of society because they to to the rest of society because they to to the rest of society because they believed they believe they're entitled believed they believe they're entitled believed they believe they're entitled to what they're doing today to what they're doing today to what they're doing today to keep secrets from all of us to keep secrets from all of us to keep secrets from all of us and that's that's entirely wrong we pay and that's that's entirely wrong we pay and that's that's entirely wrong we pay those people those people those people yeah i i feel like um a lot of this stuff yeah i i feel like um a lot of this stuff yeah i i feel like um a lot of this stuff is going to come is going to come is going to come it's going to be grassroots it's going it's going to be grassroots it's going it's going to be grassroots it's going to be from the ground up to be from the ground up to be from the ground up it's going to come from the little guy it's going to come from the little guy it's going to come from the little guy and i think that's the way it has to and i think that's the way it has to and i think that's the way it has to happen because happen because happen because you know that's that's all we've got you know that's that's all we've got you know that's that's all we've got at the end of the day we can't we can't at the end of the day we can't we can't at the end of the day we can't we can't trust them all trust them all trust them all no we gotta trust we gotta you know no we gotta trust we gotta you know no we gotta trust we gotta you know stick together and stick together and stick together and keep telling these stories um keep telling these stories um just like you're doing today um i also just like you're doing today um i also just like you're doing today um i also wanted one last thing i want to touch on wanted one last thing i want to touch on wanted one last thing i want to touch on before we go before we go before we go do not fear now that not only resonates now that not only resonates now that not only resonates with every experiencer who's had close with every experiencer who's had close with every experiencer who's had close contact because they also contact because they also contact because they also have heard that in one form or another have heard that in one form or another have heard that in one form or another or sometimes like we are you you are we or sometimes like we are you you are we or sometimes like we are you you are we this type of you know rhetoric but this type of you know rhetoric but also if you look in and i'm i'm not a also if you look in and i'm i'm not a also if you look in and i'm i'm not a religious guy i know you mentioned you religious guy i know you mentioned you religious guy i know you mentioned you had a bible and and you know i i had a bible and and you know i i had a bible and and you know i i i'm okay with religion yeah sure um i'm okay with religion yeah sure um i'm okay with religion yeah sure um but in the bible but in the bible but in the bible they do mention this 365 times they do mention this 365 times they do mention this 365 times do not fear do not fear the angels the do not fear do not fear the angels the do not fear do not fear the angels the seraphim yes these visitations the first seraphim yes these visitations the first seraphim yes these visitations the first thing they say do not fear do not fear thing they say do not fear do not fear thing they say do not fear do not fear amen yep amen yep amen yep you already made that connection oh you already made that connection oh you already made that connection oh absolutely absolutely absolutely yeah do you think yeah do you think yeah do you think historically what people are referring historically what people are referring historically what people are referring to in the bible are these beings to in the bible are these beings to in the bible are these beings i think it's very close i totally believe i think it's very close i totally believe i think it's very close i totally believe in god i believe in jesus in god i believe in jesus in god i believe in jesus i i i believe the bible and however we perceive that in each of us is the story it will take away from it. So what I can say shouldn't influence anybody else. It's got to be within each individual. And I'm sure at the end of my lifespan, when I'm gasping my last breath of air, I'm pretty certain I'll be calling on him. Whether a person believes or not, or they're involved in an accident or die naturally of natural causes, they still call on him. Do you think they're demons? No. No. There are such things. Evil forces out there. Yeah. But not these things. No. Not these things. What would you say to people who dismiss them as demons? What would you tell them as someone who does believe in God and believe in the Bible? What would you say to these people? Because I think they need to hear it too. I think there should be a separation. In my humble opinion. In my humble opinion, if you ever think that we are all that ever has been or ever will be, and all that vastness is right above our head and continuation of thought forever, and we're all that's out here, you're just fooling yourself. Because we're made of star material. God put that together, in my opinion, and sent it to where it could be used, or placed us here in ways in which he wanted us to be. That's all I know. That's all I've got to say. And again, you've got to be very careful on how you address that, because people are going to make opinions of it. But there's nobody I don't care for. And when people do good things, good things happen. And I just think down deep, I think there's good in everybody. And they just. They just have to let it out, you know? Just have to live that for each other, I believe. There are those that don't, unfortunately, but that's just my thought, and it's a very deep subject. All right, Mario. Do you want to take a break? I have questions from the audience, just a few. Do you feel like you can get through them? Do you want to take a little break here? No, I'm good, man. I'm all right. All right, we'll go. I hope I've done okay. You're incredible. Stop. You're amazing. This has been one of the most amazing conversations I've ever had in doing this. So, yeah, thank you. Thank you. I'll be right back. I'm going to turn that camera on, and we're going to get to some audience questions. Okay. All right, we've got some questions here from the audience. Sure. And they've always got good questions. And if you're a member here, one of the perks, as many of you know, is getting to have the potential to ask our audience, ask our guest a question. And I usually. I usually choose three, and we're going to see maybe we'll answer a few of them here. You know, there are times when I've walked in rooms and the lights flicker, and then I was at my oral surgeon's office, and they were doing the scan, you know, of my mouth. And that piece of equipment is really high dollar. And once they scanned it, it wouldn't play it back. Well, when you called me earlier, right before you called, and I mean three seconds before you called, the lights flickered in my office. And I was like, it's probably windy. It's probably like a thunderstorm. I go outside. It's a beautiful day. Okay. Interesting. I'm going to tell you one more thing, too, real quick. My son was with me this day about eight months ago. Got out of my truck. He was visiting. Got out of my little Honda Ridgeline that I drive, pulled up in the driveway, got out. And I have over an acre where I live, and there's azalea bushes and all this stuff all around my house, you know. Anyway, I was walking toward the garage, not a breath of air and blowing or nothing. And all of a sudden, this freaking azalea bush man just started doing this. And he goes, Dad. That's another thing when you talk about 2017, December 17. That's something that happened in my room. I don't know what it was for or what happened, but that's when I woke up standing at the foot of my bed. Oh, yeah. Mm-hmm. We need to talk about that. But all the low voltage, you know what a low voltage alarm is? Like on your microwave, your stove, your refrigerator, all these items, your AC units have them. And all these low voltage alarms in my home were going off, and it was four. 11:00, 4:11 a.m., and my son burst through my room, through my door in my room, because he's just a room over, and he said, "Dad, what's going on?" As soon as he said that, I opened my eyes, and I'm standing at the foot of my bed looking at the north wall in my house, and I said, "What's all those alarms?" He goes, "Dad, I don't know," and all the lights were like real low, like they were down on, you know. And I lost a leg of power to my house, so everything was up. I don't know what that voltage is, but everything was reduced, and the lights were just barely on. And what was on, like above the stove and that kind of small lights, were just flickering, like they were just turned way down. And nothing's on any kind of a dimmer control or nothing. And so I went through the house, and after these low voltage alarms sounded. And I was like, "Oh, my God, I'm going to die." And I was like, "I'm going to die." And I was like, "I'm going to die." I was like, "I'm going to die." And I was like, "I'm going to die." And I'm like, "I'm going to die." And I was like, "I'm going to die." And I was like, "I'm going to die." i didn't know what he's talking about i said what are you talking about and he goes they look like hollywood searchlights in your backyard at four o'clock in the morning and i said you got to be kidding me i said you know i've just got six lights back there on the corners of the house right regular 150 watt spotlights right and he goes i don't know what they were he said but they were super huge and bright he said i was on my way to work and he just drove off and that was the end of that and i just shook my head thinking what in the heck man is all that is is that you know i just i don't know it just it just blew my mind and one other thing i want to go i want to go back to real quick is right after my sighting an experience on november 5th it wasn't long at all when um close encounters with third giant came out oh wow i think it came out in um it came out december didn't it of 77 of 77 yep you know i mean i'm november wow of 77 wow oh i didn't even make that connection so i took my took my wife to go see see it and there was a lot of things in there that i saw that i was picking up on and and uh anyway where roy neary comes upon when it when they they're after the when he's out with that map in his in his pickup truck and he's got the flashlight in his mouth and also the mailbox will start shaking of course that's hollywood uh excitement drama but when that crab came upon him and put that light on him it seemed like it it did something to him it seemed as if it got his attention and almost shocked him in a way that through that light something was imparted a knowledge or a feeling or something that he had to go after and it was pyramidal in shape or that shape of the devil's tower at that time when that happened to him when that mailbox started shaking and that light came down on that man i didn't see the end of that sequence because i jumped up out of that theater in rapid city on main street and i hauled my butt out to the curb where i just had to gather myself and i left my wife sitting there so and when she came out there to me i just said i feel like they're telling my life story there that's what i told her i said i feel like you're just they're telling my life story in that movie and i can't watch that right now there's a month after yes sir him floating in the car with the uh with the object sort of like lifting in the car right when that light same same thing so tell me steven spielberg doesn't have some type of inside information because i thoroughly believe he does absolutely believe he does you're gonna go see a the new one absolutely the disclosure day i'll buy it yeah yeah i'll buy it i'll go see with you if we're if we're in the same part of the world i love it man i would absolutely love that that would be fantastic but i just had to throw had to get that in there because it's it's uh that's important because i felt that very same way that he looked and looking upon myself you know it's giving me introspect you know i even think about that craft over november 5 and november 5 not just the size but the the proximity or not proximity the closeness of that they could have gone to nine other sites all twice to three times as far as november 5 was how did they know that that launch control facility was even even somehow monitored by that missile at that missile site how would they know that how how would how could they know that we would respond to an alarm there and i mean do they just they sit up there and they can just see all this do they see the connection is underground well i mean what's their visual aspect of me flipping those sight lights at them and from where they're located in which by the way all said and done when i plotted it on google earth november control or november 1 november 5 to new lake reservoir dam it's a pythagorean triangle and i actually believe they were over new lake reservoir dam when i first saw them that's where i think that craft was over that where they and where they dropped you over that dams where i think they were initially and then i ended up back there i i'm just that's total speculation but there's something that does doesn't make sense as to where they were when i saw them to what occurred at november 5 to where i ended up at the back of note of new lake reservoir dam with michael johnson so i just wanted to say that but drawing it on on looking at it on a u.s map i mean that is a really strange angle how that and it all encompasses about 23 and a half miles because it's seven and a half miles to november 5 from november 1 and then it was nine and a half miles to new lake reservoir dam up highway 79 so i just wanted to i just wanted to bring that up yeah it's an interesting yeah point of connection i try to look at all these different aspects of another interesting synchronicity is that november 5 is the same day that travis walton got taken november 5th really yeah in 1975 so two years prior so that november 5 is really interesting and i do believe november 5 is also when bob azar went to george knapp in on november the 5th yeah in 89 wow so just other synchronicities there yeah yeah anyway i'm just the whole thing is just as unreal just the whole 48 years of it literally well i'm glad that you're here to tell the story thank you for having me thank you well i would love to get to some of these but this thing's behaving wonky isn't related i mean your guess is good as mine um i will i will ask one of the questions here just because you know you guys sure um and slug your question here was what do you want other military witnesses who are still silent to know i would help them in any way possible they could email me anything they'd like to say would never be divulged or sent out to anybody else ever if you just need someone to talk to about it i'd be more than happy to listen to you or you can email me at mwoods175 at gmail.com and i'll be happy to answer you it may take me a little while to get to it it usually does after some type of cast i i always put my email out there for people so but i would be happy to help you in any way fashion or form and if you don't feel like reaching out just sit down and take a full collection of yourself take some deep breaths and just and just know that you're not alone and that if you do reach out somebody will help somebody will help you and not everybody will talk about you and nobody will ever make you feel bad if if you need to reach out for any reason there there are there are good people in this field that can help you and you may know some other than you know i don't know i don't know i don't know i don't know myself or or even or chris or anybody else just just don't lock yourself up don't take it out on your family uh and level with your wives don't don't hide that don't ever hide it because it it comes out in other ways and there's no you have no control and inevitably it's an emotion that we just don't have we just can't keep in check yet so so serve yourself well just know people care and if you want to reach out reach out well i appreciate that and you're about to have a full-time job answering emails i suspect after this podcast mario was i want to thank you so much for you know your candor just opening up um being so open is uh is really really much needed and uh it takes a lot of bravery a lot of courage and a lot of courage to be able to do that and i think that's a really good thing a lot of a lot of i mean a lot of the x factor that you seem to have so i'm very very thankful that you uh came forward with this and i wish you nothing but the best in egypt and i can't wait to hear about your adventures man and if there's anything at all that you need from me you just let me know you know i will and i really appreciate that chris you're awesome awesome you