He Can't Code but His AI Agents Make Him $5K/Month⏐Ep. #289

In the last 30 days, I made $5,000. How technical is your background? Did you know how to code? I don't know. Anything about coding, nothing about tech, nothing at all. I still cannot reach a single line of code. And I was able to quit my normal job, and I already made five grand in my first month. My life fully has changed. This is easily like a 50, 60K, 70K year job, and I have ages doing this for you. I should tell them what to do. Man, my mind is blown right now, 'cause I'm thinking of just like, all these venture capitalists in Silicon Valley. They're not gonna have projects to give money to. Because what you're doing is something that a similar startup in Silicon Valley would need to raise one to $7 million for. You would not be profitable today. Period, end of story, if it weren't for these agents, right? A hundred percent. I could quit along the way, but I'm like, no, I'm gonna put my head down, I'm gonna make this work. I'm gonna take the bet on myself and be a self-motivator. It's actually be successful. Dude, that's inspiring. I'm inspired, man. I'm 20 years older than you. And I got to know half of these tools existed. Oh my gosh, that's a huge find. What other tools are in your tool belt that people have to use like yesterday? Lots of talk lately about OpenClaw, the new AI agent that can run your life or whatever, but what if OpenClaw is already outdated? Today I'm talking to an 18 year old that just vibe coded an app. He has no technical experience whatsoever. And this app made $5,000 in the last 30 days. He just vibe coded it a couple of months ago. And it's a pretty complex app. It competes with a company that just raised $50 million. So we talk a little bit about how he built his app, how to vibe code apps, but we also talked a lot at the end about AI agents. What type of agent is better than OpenClaw? A few agentic tools out there that are changing the game. Talks about what prompts we should use to vibe code better apps, what tools we should use, and just super inspiring. I mean, 18 years old doesn't know how to code. Please enjoy. But Dean, well, why don't you tell us who you are and what you do. Hey, I'm the Dean and I'm the founder of Vigola, which is a clipping startup for Clippers and marketers. And I'm scaling that to be the number one clipping tool by the end of 2026. OK, so talk to people about clipping. Like it's about, it's been around for a few years now. Why is clipping important and what does it do? So for example, all the streamers you see all the Pock has to see, Clippings only become more relevant in the future. That's why I started building my startup primarily for clipping because like, if you think about clipping, it's purely organic marketing. And so when, when for both your client and the Clippers, like the Clippers get paid $1,000 for a thousand views. And then the client gets like 100 million views. It's a win-win. And in the future, I firmly believe though, the future is short from concept. They're only being more reals, more like posts. And clipping is going to be another like branch of this marketing where it's going to like complete take over. And especially like content rewards, Bob, like the things that they're doing and like changing the industry itself, like that's going to be just the future. That's why how I got to clipping. Clipping essentially just in broken down terms is if you're in a podcast live stream, whatever you are, so like if you post to your own YouTube channel, and then you post your own shorts to your own YouTube channel, that's only five channels of reach you have. But if you have Clippers, they make up like 50 sub accounts in your name, repurpose all the like they clip, like a bunch of clips and short from content all 50. Now you have like 50 channels of eyeballs going all to you. So that's basically what clipping is. - So I think like the big elephant in the room, the big question mark with clipping is, how effective actually is it at bringing short form viewers to long form viewers or listeners? I've done quite a bit of clipping. I've had an agency, I've done on WAP, I've done an off-wap, I've got a bunch of accounts, I've got my verdict. I'm curious what you've seen. And I know you're biased, I know you're in the business of clipping, but have you seen any sort of like a correlation or a conversion rate, like how many short form views equal one long form view or whatever? - Yeah, so I can't really tell you the exact metrics of the clipping, but all comes down to how you package clipping obviously, like if you're a streamer, you just want more people to know who you are. For example, Clivicular study has like 1000 plus clippers. So his primarily like all of his clips are gonna be like him, like comment quote the magging like trend or him like looks maxing whatever is and that's the kind of clips like that the streamer has. But I think clipping, if you want to tailor like you want to get eyeballs from your short form content to your long form is really good for podcasters. Because if they see your clip and they get value from the clip, like the clip is good quality, they take something out of it. On Instagram, on TikTok, on YouTube, on YouTube shorts, they will go to find your channel, subscribe, because they're gonna want to see more of that content. So clipping like for podcasters is like pretty good. But like let's say for a streamer and like I just want to like you for entertainment, not for value, that's like where the difference is. Because like it's all comes down to like are you close like for entertainment or they like actually value driven and for conversions. So that's like you have the streamers of the world, they have like the podcasters of the world. And I would argue the podcasters have a higher conversion rate of people going and viewing the podcast, they just think a cost streamer probably would. - Yeah, okay. Now I want to get into this app that you built. Tell me what you built and what inspired you to build it. - Yeah. So it's like clipping scheduling caption to all in one. And why built this was before starving and eat startups at all. I want it for us to take back like a step back and like okay, it wasn't irrelevant next like six to like two years, like six months to two years. Because the one thing I see in the startup community is people build 10 apps and they just like quote unquote throw crap on the wall and to see whatever sticks. They don't like actually take time to diagnose research and actually see like, hey, let me build one legit, complex software that can just go scale. So I'm like, okay, clipping is gonna be the future of marketing, everybody's gonna be clippers. And the one thing I noticed that other clipping companies don't do is tailor it for agents. Cause the future is agentic systems, pipelines, workflows. So I'm like, okay, what if I just build out like a prototype MVP stage of like just a normal clipping tool see if people actually want it. And then based on what people say, then I'll start building out the agentic tool to scheduling the captioning. So that's how it got into it. And now we have a couple hundred paying users now. We've generated I think over like 10,000 plus clips. And like so far, the growth has been pretty steady. - So what is your MRR? What is your lifetime revenue? Let's talk numbers, but both like how long ago did you found it? And what are your numbers today? - Yeah, so current date. So in the last 30 days, I made $5,000. So in the last 30 days, I made 5K. I was like, no coding experience, nothing at all. I started building in October. I got into loveable. I don't know what I was doing. I was like cursing at the AI. I was telling me, you're not building me the right page. You're not doing this. And like only then I realized, AI, like if AI gives you something bad, it's a skill issue. Cause AI can only act on the mind of context and prompt engineering. - It's a skill issue with the user you're saying. - Yeah, so like with the product. - Exactly. I was like, I was almost newbies, five quarter, you probably like ever see. Like I just like I asked the level to build me something. Love will like, did not build what I wanted. Obviously I didn't tell it enough details. And I would get mad at loveable. So like that's how I started my black coding journey. It was unlovable. Then I moved to cloud code. It was like, it's a pretty complex software. Like taking clips, framing, cropping, sort of like it was like complex software. And I like had so much time to quit. But I started like, so I went on to cloud code. Everything started working out. I like started picking it up. And the last probably like two months I actually started marketing it organically on Twitter. And it's purely off Twitter so far, which is also like a bad market for a clipping. Like in my opinion, I could scale way better on Instagram YouTube shorts, TikTok, which I started posting now. Wait, I'm up here on X in the last two months when I actually started marketing it. And like the free like the public beta stage, we made $5,000 in the last like 30 days. Now is that $5,000 from like monthly subscriptions or lifetime subscription? What are you charge? Yeah, so I have three paid tier. So first is like a $9 plan. And then it's a $39 plan and then it's a $99 plan. So it's monthly. Yeah, monthly recurring revenue. Okay. And then we also, I also figured out the way I can like up sell like, because like for if you're having a software business, if ideally your churn rate, like a user will go to your software. And like if you like it or not, they're gonna leave probably within the like the first two to three months probably one to three months. They're gonna cancel the subscription, leave your software. So the way I even maximize my revenue even more is when it, for example, when I had like a monthly and yearly plan and then on top of that, I would say they have a monthly, chosen monthly plan and when they click on the, like get monthly plan, a pop up appears and sells them a quarterly plan. So you want to keep upselling them like better, better deals maximizing how much revenue you can take from your use from the user, because from like one to three months, they're gonna leave you. And then after they like they, they picked their plan, then you take them to a custom checkout page where you upsell them additional free credits now. So like it's like a one time purchase for like a bunch of more credits and it's like a really good value deal for the user. So that like when I like start when I did that, I like selling my revenue kind of like like spike up on one day, I think like one day I made like a like 900 bucks, just like in one day after I made like the up selling purpose and features. - Now and you're just promoting this on Twitter. You're starting to do short from video, but mostly just Twitter, right? - Yeah, purely Twitter. - Okay, okay. And how technical is your background? Like did you know how to code or is like vibe coding your first coding experience? - I do, I cannot tell like I don't know anything about coding, nothing about tech, nothing at all. Like I can't just learn along the way. I'm like basically like your grandma, I'm not even joking. I don't know anything about like coding service. I'm basically your grandma, they gone to like tech and that's over time I just like learn. Like now I know like the basics of it probably, but I still cannot reach you a single line of code. - Okay, why did you start with loveable and would you recommend that people start with it? I know you have a more complex app. Most people are probably doing more simple things, but what's your recommendation there? - Honestly, looking back and out, I would not recommend loveable at all. First like in my opinion, it's too expensive and also the designs in UI gives you, it looks like vibe coded slots. So like in the AI space, like there's this thing called like they can tell if your website is vibe coded or if it's nine, it's called the app. AI Slub, which just means like your website is like garbage and it's obviously made by AI. And mobile did a horrible job on the designs. Way too expensive. Like I said, I spent like $500 of a monthly credits in span of four days. Maybe that's the meat problem, but I just burned through so much credits. So like if you're just beginning into vibe coding, I would like the terminal looks very complex, but basically all you need to know is like, you need you need a backend server, so like super based like store all your data. You need for sale to like, for example, you need a domain, you need a host of domain on the server. So you need for sale for that. And then for your front end, that's like your front end code. So you just like open up cloud code in the terminal and you just talk with cloud code. It makes the local files for you. You push it onto GitHub. GitHub is like a Google drive for your code. And it's basically all you need to like build a like a build a startup of software. So like it's just like those four things and it seems complex at first, but like it's not really like it's pretty easy to get into it. So like you can skip all the replets of the world, the world, the world, the world. You can just kind of skip all that and go straight into cloud code. Okay, so super based for the database, for the hosting GitHub, for hosting your code, the terminal app on your computer for actually making the code. What is the AI tool that you're using to actually like vibe code it? Is it cloud code? Yeah, I'm using cloud code. And also, for example, I'm using cloud code max subscription. So I'm paying 200 bucks a month. And also for you guys that do not know, I just realized this. So when I first got cloud, cloud code, if you buy it on the mobile app, it's 250 bucks. I don't know why, but then if you buy it in the web app, it's 200 bucks. Make sure to buy it on the web app. So yeah, I use cloud code. Yeah. And also, whenever my cloud code description runs out, I have a second codex plan. Codex is basically open a eyes coding and just like colors cloud. There's cloud code for coding. And then there's open a chat GPT. And then there's codex for coding. Yeah, it's 250 on mobile app because they have to give like 20% to Apple. Yeah, yeah, yeah, forgot about that. Apple takes a chunk out of that. So had have you been a clipper in the past? Like what got you into this world? Yeah. So basically, when I started doing this, like a bunch of people started reaching out to me from like the clipping space like one of those names like like do you have clipping experience? Like I never clipped. I was never a clipper. I never did I never did anything of that before I started building software at all. I literally just like like researched. I'm like, okay, I want like I want to build the actual legit software that it's going to be viable and can actually scale in the future. The future is going to be show from content. Future can be clipping. Everyone's going to need like that. So why not why not me instead of building a simple like walking app or calorie checking app where like some simple I was asked what if I just build a legit complex like almost like it's not an enterprise like software like a legit software web application that like I can just scale and will actually be like viable and like it's going to be like relevant in the future, you know? So that's why we got into it. So you saw clipping as a tidal wave and you said I'm going to hop on this tidal wave. I'll have an easier chance of success. Yeah, this is here to stay. Now what about Opus, right? Like is that the biggest clipping app in the space? Yeah. So are you do you even like look at them or are you just thinking like this market so big not everyone's going to use it? There's room for everyone. How do you look at them? Yeah. So the way I look at it honestly. So I like I tested out all my competitors first of all like before I started building myself or I tested all my competitors and started like deep analyzing with myself in AI because like if you don't know your AI can actually go and like do things. For example, I use a tool called Hermes agent. Essentially it's open claw up on steroids and there's a thing called Chrome Dev Tools MCP where I can literally go and open tabs for you to exchange shots and analyze. So my Hermes agent my like you say Jarvis. So my Hermes agent would go analyze takes screenshots, click through buttons while on my MacBook Pro, I'll also be researching and analyzing these competitors. And one thing I realized is first of all like they're like I really I also I went through like the customer reviews. But like one thing is it's too expensive. The clipping process takes too long. Open clip also it clips the same clips at the same time. Like if you post the podcast that opens clip since they like since they've got a good it's like a clipping logic. I like for example if you clip a minute and five seconds of a video in one clip you can have that clip and then clip two it kind of the same clip it can be like I'm in it five and jumps to a minute 10 and a minute 20. I don't think we can say like it reuses the same clip moments in multiple clips. So you're spending credits basically getting the same exact clip. You're not going to approve that same clip over time because all these algos look at your content and see if it's the same content. They're not going to be at all. So I like I deep analyze all my competitors seeing like okay they're not a gen sick. All like the user is saying xyz I can improve in this this this way. So let me start building. And if I can make my product 10% better than theirs. And heck like the market sure is so big. Why can why can I not just take a piece of it as well you know so that I had not right so as well like you said. So how long did it take you to go from you know your first prompt in lovable when you first had this idea and you started building it to your first dollar in the bank account. First dollar in my bank account I think it was in the beginning of February. I think it was like February two. I got like my first like strive notification. And by the way like my product I don't market it anywhere. I was just building in public on Twitter and I still like I saw some symbolic of the creator plan. It reminds you my product probably sucked back then like it probably was horrible but someone still paid for it and used it you know. So like I've got so yeah February second I think that's why I got my first like notification and first sale. And when did you first start prompting it in lovable. First start prompting in lovable it was October November. Okay so you spent like a few months kind of tinkering with it learning the hard way and then first dollar in February second. Yeah. And then March your first full month you did 5,000 in revenue. Yep 5,000 in revenue. And how much of that was profit. Profit I think I have 80 80 85 80% profit margins. That's amazing. Now are you are you using AI credits on the on the back end when they generate videos is that part of your cost or no. Yeah. So there's a whole system with like the face analyzing transcript analyzing looking at the emotion of the speakers where they're at like everything's basically on API credits. And yeah I'm basically outsourcing and like when I'm pricing my packages I'm making sure hey like if I package it in this my price this my credits like I do you want 70 to 80% profit margins in the sass world. Yeah. And are you using cloud API on the back end like for generating these videos. No I'm not using cloud I'm using Gemini API. That's like that's the most pop effective because like Gemini does a good job at reasoning and also Gemini also has a VLAM which is basically so you have LLAMs it's like a language learning model then you have VLAMs which is a visual learning model. So not only can the AI look at the transcription and analyze which parts of the clips or which part of the video will be good clips but also look at the video itself and I said okay who's the speaker where they are like what are they talking about also podcasts oh this is this or this is like a stream this is like a gaming thing and stuff like that. Okay now how have you used OpenClaw throughout the process of building and/or marketing this business. So I started using OpenClaw I think a few months yeah I think like two months ago three months ago I started using OpenClaw and it came viral and the way I got my first like 400 like I before I had the free plan which like as a boost our boost our company I was getting burned through credits because people were to make in multiple free accounts but the way I got like my first 450 plus users will like a bunch of them were free but I got so much feedback from them was through Reddit marketing so essentially back when I used OpenClaw I switched from it but we'll get back into that later. My OpenClaw I made like a marketing agent essentially it would go on subreddit it would go on LinkedIn it would go on X on Twitter it would see where people are talking about what's the best clipping tool what's the best AI video tool and I gave that a bunch of these specific keywords tailored to my SaaS so hey look for like users complaining about clipping look for users complaining about OpusClip because even OpusClip back in the day they had like a 48 hour outage and in that moment I told my Martin hey go like give me a list like bullet bullet bullet their user names the posts were the complaining so I can go and shoot them at the Yam Hey I'm building a clipping tool I would love for you to try for free so that's all I got like my first 450 like free users on my software and got a bunch of feedback on things to improve on to remove simplifying stuff like that with OpenClaw. So how many total users do you have today both free and paid well I switched from what's it called I switched from there's no free plan anymore so just a paid plan and right now we have like 267 paying users right now okay so you got you had a pretty easy time getting unpaid users with your OpenClaw agent just by posting or commenting on Reddit but then your paid users mostly came from X is that right yeah because one thing I noticed is like I was giving way too much free value on the free plan like I was because not only is it's not just clipping it's mostly scheduling like you can like schedule it's like a whole socially scheduler as well unlike these are clipping tools they focus on clipping and stuff like you can clip and schedule natively all on one ecosystem so like these people will really make free accounts clip schedule and then make another free account another free account another free account and I'll give burn through a bunch of credits and like I'm like okay the way I can filter this is let me just make it simple nine dollar a month instead of the free plan I'll do a nine dollar month plan and that will filter just the people just to test it out and the actual real users that actually want the product and want the software and mind you when I had the free plan my revenue like I was not seeing any revenue at all like maybe just like one sale in like like a couple weeks or something and then in March and March I think like the end of February that's when I like I made okay I made decision I'm not gonna have any free plans I'm gonna make like the nine dollar plan like minimum and that's gonna filter people and I'm actually gonna see if people actually want to use use my software and if I did the night I almost planned, keep it up. You started buying it. I'm like, oh wow. It was a good filter. It was a good move in the end. That was my day. - Did you know you can build a six figure business with only a 10,000 person email list? I just talked to the founder of Beehive and he told me that there are people with 10 to 15,000 subscribers making more than newsletters that are 10 times that size. Here's how. Well, this one designed newsletter with around 15,000 subs, doesn't just sell ads. They run two week online cohorts four times a year that generate six figures. And on top of that, they're charging companies 20 to $30,000 to get in front of their audience. And that's on one small focus list. This is not about going viral anymore. It's about owning an eash and monetizing it correctly. And Beehive gives you exactly the tools to do just that. Like surveys to understand exactly who your readers are or a built-in recommendation network to grow automatically paid subscriptions, digital products, sponsorship tools, and you keep 100% of the revenue. You don't need a massive audience to run a successful business. You need the right system. So move your email list over today and try out Beehive with 30% off for 30 days with code Chris 30. Because this might be the simplest, highest leverage business that you can build right now. Just go to beehive.com/chris to learn more of that's BEH-I-I-V.com/chris. Do you have any numbers as to what percentage of people upgraded from free to paid versus just bounced? That's the one thing I had a mistake on. So there's a thing called post-hog, which is it can look at your volunteer website and your analytics stuff. I did not have proper conversion and data set up from the beginning. So I can't really tell you, I can probably go with my stripe and have my AI analyze all the stripe IDs and the users and see which users upgraded from the starter plan to the creator plan and then from maybe from the creator to the agency plan. I can probably look at that right now. But from the beginning, I didn't have that set up. But I have a set up now. I at least set it up yesterday with post analytics. But I didn't have proper data. I didn't have onboarding. I didn't have off-boarding. I didn't have any of that. I was looking at this now from a market perspective. What was I doing? I mean, that's the alternative to not starting. Oftentimes people check all those boxes and then all that friction causes I'm never launching the first place. So that's usually how I do it too. I'm so anxious to get revenue in the door. I don't set up all the necessary tracking things. But in the end, it doesn't really make that big of a difference. Like a year from now, you're not going to care about that. Yeah, sure. It's all about learning process. Yeah. But would you say that you were surprised by what percentage of people actually upgraded to paid? Yeah, I was actually really surprised. Because like-- Yeah. I'm like, I'm like, because like my competitor over skilled there, they have a free plan. I'm like, why not just like-- why not me make a free plan? I'll see if people are going to go to me. And like, no one was buying at all. I'm like, what the heck? So I'm like, OK, let me just make a free plan. And we'll see if there's a demand. If people actually want to tool, start and marketing it more, start talking about it more on Twitter. And people start funneling in. And then I start getting more emails, more feedback things that they like. They didn't like what's been put on what to add and stuff like that. Sorry. Did you say that Opus did or didn't have a free plan? They have a free plan. Yeah. OK. That's interesting. I would have thought that they didn't. Because clearly, your data has showed that it's not a good idea. Yeah. Because I think the thing with Opus, they raised $50 million, by the way. And if you look at their ads, their marketing, they're just burning money just to get big names like Mr. Beast or I shall speed just to use their products. If you look at their pages, it's just like well-known podcasts down the world. So I'm like, why do I like, I can literally niche down and go after smaller podcasters, entrepreneurs, affiliate marketers, whoever might be that need clipping. And I can niche down and take a big chunk out of the market share as well, that way. Have you thought of building an open-cloth agent that will go to WAP and start DMing Clippers, just like spamming them links to your thing, giving them free credits or whatnot? No, I didn't think of that. But what I did think is Daniel Bitton-- he's the founder of Content Rewards. He was a good Clipper back in the YouTube shorts guy. He's pretty successful, young lad. And he's like, yeah, Daniel Bitton, the ITTOM. And he's the founder of Content Rewards. And I have an idea. And I messaged them on Twitter and on messages, especially, I want to build out a gentle clipper where the future of clipping is not going to be human clippers. It's really going to be agent clippers clipping for you. OK, think about it. They can go take your video. So they can go analyze on WAP, what campaign it is, find that video on YouTube, copy the link, paste it into Google, clip it. They download the clips. They add the trending sounds, the B-rolls, everything. And then they submit it on their social media platforms, because they can schedule as well. And then the way clipping works, you take whatever you schedule on social media, you take that like Instagram link, TikTok post link, and you just submit it on content where you submit it on law. And that's how you start tracking you for your views and giving you like a CPM, which is a day to pay you like 10 cents, 30 cents or whatever, like $1,000 per thousand views. And like I thought about, hey, why not like content where it's built like a API key or like what build like a API key and to build it for agents. So I'm in the talks with them. So like we'll see where the future leads. But that's why I think we're clipping will be like fully agentsic. Yeah, yeah, I'm thinking of these patterns like 20 years ago in the early to mid 2000s, you know, the smart thing to do was to build your business internet first, right? Like if you're starting a business, it doesn't necessarily have to be an internet business, but it needs to be optimized for the internet. And then five years later, mobile became everything, right? Facebook launched in '04 and then Instagram a few years later. And then the iPhone in '07. And so everyone was saying like your business has to be mobile first. And Instagram was really unique because it was the first social media app to be mobile first, whereas Facebook was web first. And then they made an app later because there weren't even apps in '04. So it was mobile first for a while. And now like three years ago, it's like your business has to be AI first. Like AI, like it can be a normal business, but you have to lead with AI. And now it feels like today in the next five years, it needs to be agentic first, right? And it seems like that's what you're doing. Like you're building the framework for your business to be agentic first. Because eventually like agents are going to be buying these apps and a human will record a podcast. And then an agent will just pick it up and take it from there, right? Agents will be doing all kinds of tasks. They're going to have a credit card info. They're going to go buy things for us because they know we need it. Like that's what the future looks like. And that's how businesses need to build their foundation to be agentic first. For a cent, like if you're a viewer watching this podcast for an hour, like if you're building your startup or software, whatever might be, start tailoring it and thinking, okay, how can I build it out for agents? Because literally the future is agentsic, work flows and like enterprise companies literally. Like your agent is going to go download my agent skill. And for example, people say a software is going to be dead because like cloud code can build you anything and you don't need to buy any subscription. Well, no, I five agent that knows clipping, but then it sucks that scheduling. Instead of building my own scheduling tool, why not like I just outsource and grab a API key and get like this scheduling still and help it up to my agent. So now my agent can clip and then schedule. I love it. What, what are you building or playing around with on the open claw today and that people can learn from and copy? Yeah. So I actually switched from open clause spoiler alert. So I switched from open clause to Hermes agent. Essentially, Hermes. So open claw is like the one thing about open call. I had a big problem with, I don't know if you experience this as well. But the memory and like the self learning loop on open claw, it was just not like I found myself repeating to open claw time and time again. They're like, hey, you're forgetting this. It had contradicting memory. And then a thing called Hermes agent came out. Essentially, it's like open clause a genetic tool. We plug in like cloud code, we plug in open like codex, your subscription to it. It can do things with it. And Hermes agent has like 40, like 40 plus built in skills. They've built in self memory system. So an old call yet to build out this memory system by yourself, which I had to do. But Hermes agent has everything built in natively already within like within a new install it is really built in. So I switched from open call to Hermes agent. And so far, it's been incredible. So like I have like a Hermes like CEO agent, like a brain right agent. I have a marketing agent, a growth agent, and a specific coding agent, all tailored for Vagola. So that's like we see the whole entire company and team. You can say behind for ball. So like wow, I mean, if you were to like if you were to hire a human to replace everything that your agent is doing for you. Would that be a full time job? Would that be two humans three part time job? What do you think it would take? Oh my goodness, I don't even know. I'm spending about like, I don't know how much tokens worth of like cloud code tokens and codex tokens spend just like coding itself. It didn't like I have a customer support agent, literally setting up post talk like post talk analytics, doing a bunch of metrics. Having cron jobs in real time. Like this is easily like a 50 60 K 70 K year job, just for like one department of Vagola, like monitoring full time. And I have ages doing this for me, all for like 200 bucks a month, 400 bucks a month, like everything for my own to have. And like I'm the CEO and I just tell them what to do. And they do it for me, you know? Man, my mind is bone right now, because I'm thinking of just like all these venture capitalists in Silicon Valley, like they're not going to have projects to give money to because what you're doing is something that like a similar startup in Silicon Valley would need to raise one to $7 million for, right? And higher that 50 to 100 K person over and over, like two marketing people at admin person, like you're spending hundreds of dollars a month on agents doing the same thing. Like you would not be profitable today, period, end of story if it weren't for these agents, right? 'Cause five grand a month, ain't gonna pay all those bills. - 100% and a thing also like, so if you don't understand, how cloud code works for your user. So essentially when you buy the $200 month plan, they're giving you like $15,000 with their actual credits and tokens. And if I'm spending that all the time, and then I go to codex and another codex $200 plan, that's another like $15,000 with a coding and like token usage and credits. So essentially these like these companies, because not everybody hits their usage limits and weekly limits every single week. Only for me, I'm maxing up thing out every day. Like I don't have this like anxiety almost that if I don't maximize my my token usage every week every day, I'm losing month, you know. So like if you're like if you're in cloud code, if you're in codex, maximize your output, you're supposed to be like hitting your limits every single week, you know. So because like you're really spending like $30, $45,000 for the credits for like $400, $600 bucks a month. Oh my gosh. All right, Hermes agent, that's a huge find. So, so I literally was researching with my Hermes agent and like he really like talked to me like, hey, you don't have any like analytics set up nothing. So like for your software, you want to stuff like not sponsored nothing like it's called post-todd. It's actually really good. Essentially post-todd can literally go on your software and you can see where users are clicking, how long they're on a page for what they're going to like the whole entire user journey and then you can build out post-todd called events where essentially it likes like your whole onboarding flow or for me like the first user they sign up then it tracks for the first clip, the first download, the first post, the first caption and lead tracks every single user's journey. Seeing okay, here they canceled the subscription, the subscription here they got more credits, here they got this that XYZ and it's basically like a whole entire like analytical tool. They can like fully deep dive in hybrid agent just running for you. So like I got post-toddd, I'm on a free plan also by the way. I don't know how like I don't know why I would need a paid card making money. Because I'm saying like maybe there's like a limit I'm gonna reach or something. I don't know. I literally got a free plan put the code like I just told my agent, Hermes, like put this code and bet it in my software. I grabbed the API key gave it to it and like okay start setting all these analytic tracks. The thing is like if you don't know what to do for your software, the beauty of AI it's supposed to help you and brainstorm with you you know. So like I couldn't come up with all like the post-like events like it would be like what down like step by step, hey you need track this, you need track that, you need track this boom boom boom. And like I was brainstorming with Hermes and then like okay go build it out and it started building it out for me. And I think with Hermes agent as well like I don't know if I like I wish I could share my screen right now here but you can open it's E and like telegram what it's working on. What tools, what MCP service it's calling. So you can track it's whole entire like and look like it's whole journey and it's coding thing as well in real time. Unlike for open claw you would tell like hey do like building you this thing and it would just like go quiet and then just spit something back out to you. So you you couldn't really know what it was doing, what it was working on maybe like it took the prompt the wrong way or something. It's funny because it reminds me of like my hiring process that the key question that I ask all my potential employees is how well do you work in ambiguity. And it sounds like open claw does not work great in ambiguity right it needs more handholding whereas Hermes Hermes agent like it's just accountable it's it has autonomy it just goes and does things. And also another thing so do you know what paperclip is? Have you heard of all the paperclip? It's like a new AI tool that build out. It's me. I can't keep up man. I feel like Twitter is something new every single day but essentially there's a thing called paperclip it's an open source GitHub project essentially it's a whole like AI orchestration structure for you. So essentially it's like you have a C.E. you literally have you literally have a CEO agent and then it can break down until like your CMO your CTO and then those agents can have agent agents essentially like it's literally a agenteic AI company. So like you can really hire a CEO tell it hey hire me this kind of agent you tell your goals you tell your to-do list you make issues essentially it really works for you around the clock 24/7 and the thing with paperclip also the founder of paperclip went on podcasts and talked about a maximize or still and then my firm is agent you want to tell your agents if you're using Hermes open claw whatever it might be is you want to build it build it out so like hey if I give you a task make sure you go and fix it and do it no matter what because like if agents they have access to like click on your web they can like with Chrome Dev tools MCT servers they can go click on tools they can take screenshots they can like if you give it like your login past or make like a dummy account so I can log into Instagram it can log into TikTok and log into to Google and like I built out a native like custom skill where like hey if I give you a task you work on it no matter what you do not bug me at all until you look figured out and you literally self-influed if you run into any work blocks if you work if you go into like a unknown arrow page you yourself figure it out and only like tag me and like message me back if you only need my help like 100% and the thing with Hermes it really figures out and clicks on stuff send me screenshots proactively now because like I to give a task and it runs for me until it really finishes it so if you have like agents I would I would like advise you guys set that up as well that like give them the access they need and just let them run and only pay me when that ask is actually done I call it the let them cook prompt keep cooking what other like killer prompts like that would you suggest or hacks or tools to get your agent and or LLM to run better or more yeah so another good thing is like I think like the the term is called reverse prompting essentially after like when you're setting up your open-cloud or for example now with my Hermes agent you want you want it's ask you questions back so for example like you always you talk to like you want to tell your goals and also like be super specific with AI like if you're a vibe quote or no code and Smith's like me like like like once I learned this like quote and like embed it until your home to workflow if AI gives you a if AI gives you a wrong prompt a wrong build a wrong UI design whatever if the AI gives you something that's not your expectation it's a skill issue on you it's a you problem like whether you like it or not the AI can only do so much on what you tell it like on context and prompt engineering like think about AI like we might have or like I had a long impression of AI like AI so grand it knows everything about me like it doesn't know everything about me if I didn't tell it stuff it's not going to go on the web like search everything I like know my personal goals my intention if it did go on the web it doesn't know your insecurities your thoughts your mind your history your background a conversation you had offline like it doesn't know any of that yeah and that's what I'm saying so like once I found this out like hey like these super specific about the context and prompt engineer like for example if you look like one like this is a good like sign like if like if you go on a website and you look at designed website and you want implemented for your startup literally pull up a notes tab on the sidebar of your computer and start writing like in description not your AI which like for yourself in a dog like I like this nav bar I like this header I like this prompt and you want to take screenshots of it because your AI can also like look at screenshots don't forget that like you want to make a huge no prompt of like things you like take screenshots of the website give it to your agent and now I have so much more context that rather saying hey I like the website of xyz calm copy it like you have to be so much more specific in how you prompt engineer your AI yeah and the other prompts or hacks that you can think of like that ask your agent hey what tools and what API keys what kind of mcp servers what do you what do you need so you can be for me a ton of this because like for example like the I don't know like chrome dev tools mcp essentially I'll talk about it again I did not know anything about it and like every time I was asking my agents to go take screenshots of xyz web or this web start whatever it couldn't and then I told okay how can we make you like do it how what like what stills do you need what like go look on open says give up repos go look on twitter go do whatever and then it told me okay there's a thing called chrome do chrome dev tools mcp where I can where you can allow it on your mac mini your mac book and I can go open tabs for you I can go do this for you so tell your agent like to make it fully autonomous tell your agent hey what stills do you need what API keys do you need so I can help you so we can improve our work like work relationship and like our workflow yeah I love that um any other tools that you would recommend we've got hermys agent we've got post hog we've got paperclip anything else that is just blowing your mind lately honestly as of the moment that's about it like it's like it's like I don't want to like over like complicate everything that's the way all you need to like build like a good like startup business in today's world and literally like I have no coding space I have nothing at all and I was able to quit like my like normal like high paying like you see the marketing job and like build like a decent income for like just the first month of me building like fully marketing my software and I already made five grand in my first month just like that you know so like it's like it's super like simple it's simple work but it's not easy work if that makes sense like yeah the time to build a business it's still like simple but obviously success if success was easy everybody would be successful obviously like there's like to be entrepreneur it's still hard and you should have to go all these roadblocks like when I was building my software one little like last thing like when I was building my software like I was running to roadblocks like the the face tracking the cropping like everything was like super off because like a clipping software always could be like very 50 million to build theirs and hold my to park with my own you know and like I could quit along the way but I'm like no I'm pulling my head down on to make this work I'm gonna take the bet on myself and be a self-motivator to actually be successful and now looking back now on going to the legit startup company under my bell it's like a fully times AI agent's like my life like fully has changed in a span of like four or five months. - Dude, that's inspiring. I'm inspired, man. And I, like, I didn't know half of these tools existed. You're inspiring a lot of people. Last question I'll ask you. You obviously did a bunch of research in finding this clipping opportunity. What tools or what methodologies, frameworks, whatever, can people use to find profitable, uncovered, undiscovered niches? - Mm-hmm. So essentially, you wanna like, take a step back and really, for this part, I didn't use NEI. I didn't use any, like, I lose, I came up with this deep on myself. Like, if you wanna take a step back and actually look into the marketplace, like, I don't care if it takes you a week or maybe like two weeks, like, you actually wanna do deep research by yourself. Like, you wanna understand the market that you're gonna go into. You wanna understand what your competitors are doing. You wanna understand where the future is headed. In this podcast, we're talking about how the future is a genetic software, genetic workforce, building skills and endpoints, webhooks for other agents. And like, now having that kind of info, you can start thinking, okay, what can I build that every other company or every, like, or maybe like one niche market will need? So like, maybe like, automate, like, automated leads. But like, take that, we automate leads. How can I make automated leads a genetic? Okay, I can build that agent that literally goes and has a cron job. So it gradually runs every single day. It can go finally leads amount to half and then taking that stuff further, it can go message those leads, it can go follow up with those leads. It can go like, so like, you can think about a whole, like, agentic workforce. Like, you can like, one dog, you think about it? Oh, mind mapping, this is a huge. You wanna go and using mind mapping tools and like, build one point. Okay, where does this lead to? It goes to here. Okay, it goes into here. And you wanna mind map your whole entire research, like, your whole research thing about whatever niche you wanna go into. And that's basically all I'll say, like, it sounds cliche, but literally like, you wanna be the expert in your own field. Like, I know everything about clipping. I know where my competitors doing, where they're lacking, what they're not doing. And like, that's how I'm gonna take the edge on all these like multi-million dollar companies and competitors on Vigola. So whatever you're building, you wanna be the expert in it and really use your own creativity in mind mapping. So you fully understand your wants your own market. This is the original Disney, like master plan from like 60, 70 years ago. Was this a mind map essentially? Yeah, essentially that. And that's like, the thing about this mind map, I bet you when Walt Disney was doing this, he probably first started with just like the, maybe just the use, or maybe just the TV, like, second. And he kept building onto it over time. Yeah, and he just like started building and strategizing those mind, okay, I should, like, this connects here, this connects here. And like, you strategize on your own and research on your own behalf, you know? Yeah. Are there any mind mapping tools that you would recommend? I think Miro, Miro's a good one. That's probably the best one I would use. Okay. Oh, I've heard of this one. Yeah, so this looks familiar. Okay. Where can we find you? Where can we find your app or you? Yeah, so if you guys want to test my app, it's still in data stage right now. And we're like, I'm obviously like making and polishing and I'm like working on nonstop. You can find out vugola AI.com, basically VUG OLA AI.com. And then where you can find me on social media, so I have, I'm mainly on Twitter. I built up my personal brand on Twitter. So like 27,000 followers. And then I started posting on Instagram. So you can find me out Vadim and then under underscore and then striege you. So S-T-R-I-Z-H-E-W-S. Okay, gotcha. We will link to you there. Well, Vadim, this is amazing, inspiring. Thank you for all your tools. Speaking of mind map, my mind is blown right now. Thanks for coming on, man. Thank you, Christopher, having me.