He Became CEO Without Ever Selling Insurance | Kevin Murphy, Indiana Farm Bureau Insurance

It's that kind of thing I think that makes us different, taking care of his customer because he cares about them. First time CEO, you're done this before. No one has done the global pandemic before, but if you make it through that, you're pretty set, smooth sailing from there on out. The idea of taking risk, you're not going to get a return on it if you aren't willing to have a little bit of potential down. So yeah, how have you guys adapted and learned in this crazy, transformational change that's happened in the last six years? From South Bend to Evansville and everywhere in between, this is Get In. The show focused on the Hootier State and the incredible stories happening here today. I'm Nate Spangle, founder of Get Indiana, and I will be your host for today's conversation. This episode of Get In is brought to you by Indie Grills. Indie Inners go to team for fireplaces, outdoor kitchens, and entire custom patios. Indie Grills handles everything in-house from design and permitting to construction and installation, making the entire process simple from start to finish. They design, build, and furnish more custom patio spaces in Indiana than anyone else, using a strong focus on American-made materials, paired with trusted products and components, selected for quality, durability, and performance in Indiana weather. Whether you're adding a fireplace building a grill station or creating an entire custom patio, Indie Grills is the team to call. I totally recommend these guys, they're building the best outdoor spaces in the state right now. Go check out their social media. They post some insane content. Start planning your project with them at Indie Grills.com. Now let's get into today's episode. My guest today is Kevin Murphy, and he leads one of Indiana's most recognized insurance organizations as the executive vice president and CEO of Indiana Farm Bureau Insurance. We are so excited for today's conversation. What really makes Kevin's story interesting is that he did not come up through traditional sales or executive tracks. He built his career as an actuary, combining mathematics, risk analytics, and leadership into a path that ultimately led him to the corner office. He now oversees an organization with agents and employees serving Hoosiers across all 92 counties. I'm really excited to dive into this non-traditional pathway to becoming the CEO of a staple institution in the Hoosier State. And people will know he might be a math guy, but he speaks well, we're really excited to have him here, Kevin, welcome to the show. Thank you, Nate. It's great to be here. And that might be the first time in recorded history that actuary and interesting we're using the same sense. Without the word, not in the between the numbers kidding. Hey, math is cool. We like math. We don't do public math in the show. I will say that too many times that I've been trying to do math and then it's like, ah, you know what, we can't do that. But I mean, that is a really interesting path. I feel like typically if you go the mathematics route, you're going to be like a numbers hard data person. And the skill set required for a CEO is a lot more soft skills, a lot more personal skills. Absolutely. So there is no doubt. You can't do anything without people. You're going to lead people. You're going to manage people. You're going to communicate to people. Yeah. What I mean, for example, I mean, you guys serve all 92 county correct. How big is the organization when you think about people that kind of look up to you? Yeah. So there are 1200 or so employees, a little over 400 agents. And so, yeah, 1600 people across 92 counties spread throughout. 1200 employees plus another 400 agents. Correct. Holy smokes. OK. So, I mean, we're going to get into the nuts and bolts of Indiana for our bureau insurance. And learning kind of like the history, we're going to make a very important distinction between two organizations that operate independently-- Actually, three organizations, one national organization. There's a lot of myths that we're going to bust here. But your journey starts on the west side of Indianapolis, and you went to Cardinal River High School, and then you end up-- where do you go and pursue college? I went to Franklin College. Go Gris. Go Gris. Exactly. Went down to Way South, a 20-South of India. Did you play sports? I played golf. No. Yeah, I played golf at college. Went to play both basketball and golf. And then was shown quickly that I needed to stick to golf. Oh. Basketball players, I didn't think were as good as I was, and I was completely wrong. They were very gifted. Well, there's a rich history of Franklin Grisley basketball. With the old school coach whose name was Gris-- Nicely done, yeah. And then that's how the high school became the Grisley Cubs. You're exactly right. Was it like the Fab Five, or like they had their own name for them? I think it was the '30s. Yeah. Yeah. One-- What's his name? It was Coach Sumpf. Wizard White, maybe. Yeah. Ernest B. Gris. Wad. There you go. Ernest Wad. So yeah, he was like the Wonder Five. Franklin Wonder Five from three consecutive high school state championships, 1920 to 1922. And then led Franklin College to collegiate titles in '23 and '24. Well done. That's good. Shout out to the Wonder Five. So you go there, and you're like, this is it. That's the old days. But you end up playing golf there. Play golf there, yes. And then you go on to get a master's degree, correct? A master's degree, yes. So I was going to be a teacher, going to be a math teacher. And then went to student teaching and was surprised that not everybody wanted to be in class. Where'd you student teach at? Student taught at Shelbyville High School. Oh. Go Bears. You're well done. Come on. OK, so you're you're very and you realize, oh, wow, where is it high school? It was high school. Yeah. And you realize high school kids aren't obsessed with learning. Shocking. Yeah, high school kids weren't excited about math either. And so I still enjoy teaching, but it didn't enjoy the things that came with it. Have immense respect. I think teachers are among, if not the most underpaid for the value they bring in patient and pathetic, like all the soft skills. I mean, you think about like coaches kind of get the fun part of it. So you're in a gym or you're doing that piece of it. It's like two hours a day with high school kids is like plenty for a lot of people. I can't imagine eight hours, five days a week. Sky would need the summer to recover too. Absolutely. So at that point, and became, wait a minute, I'm not going to do that. So I just I'd stall and let's go to school a little bit longer. Yeah. Had an opportunity to do so at Miami Ohio. Nice. Yeah. Great place. No, we're not upset about Oxford, Ohio. No, it is even though it's across the border. It is barely. Just barely. And it is a it is a well known and well respected institution across the Midwest and beyond. It's very, very cool. So did you get a master's degree in mathematics? I did. Yes. So you big math guy. Big. Yes. And did you so you did that though because you didn't know what career you wanted to do? Correct. I did that just to stall essentially. And while I was there, got introduced to the actual profession at that point and said, yeah, I'll give this shot, talk to a handful of people that were doing it here locally in Indiana and a couple of professors there were aware of it as well. Yeah. Well, I think that's an interesting piece. Today, you're a CEO. You've been so how many years? This is my six year. Here's your six year as a CEO of a 1600 person organization here in Indiana. But when you graduated college, like you didn't know what you wanted to do either. Correct. You were stalling and you like, you know, like I think that people think, oh my gosh, I'm 22. I have to have the world figured out today. You probably have sons that are around that age, maybe a little bit past that. But like, you know, being a parent and also being in the shoes and looking back and saying, hey, it all panned out for me. I don't know. What do you think about that? Yeah, being young and not having it all put together. NATO, I wish you would have been around. We were having those conversations with our, we have four adult children, all triplets that are 28 and 27. Triplets. We do. We're going to get into that later. We should. But all of them had the same sorts of things. I'm confused. I don't know what I want them to do. I feel like, I feel like everybody in my class knows exactly what they want to do. No, they think, but they don't. And just find something that you like and give it a shot. Yeah. Like, if you had every college senior make their 10 year plan, how many of them are actually doing what they thought they were going to do? And kudos, there's like a diamond in the rough that's like, has a straight line and that that's what they want and they get there. And a lot of them eat there and they're like, huh. Well, now that I've done, like, what do I do now? Exactly. I just think that is like the pressure of you have to have it all figured out. You have to be on the perfect career path. But then you realize that the game is pretty long and you can make up ground. You can lose ground like pretty quickly and it's all right. Exactly. You mentioned the 10 year plan. It's the old Mike Tyson line. Everybody has a plan to get punched in the mouth. And when we all get punched in the mouth career wise and life wise and have to make turns and pivots and adjust to what comes out of us. Amen. So how long was the mathematics master's program? Two years. So you do two years there and you're like, okay, actuary, this seems good. Now, the crazy thing that I've heard and I don't know if it was like this when you were coming through school. But to be like a full fledged, like certified actuary, it's like five levels of like crazy testing, right? Or I don't know what then how many tests there are. It is when I went through there were 10 tests. 10 that were offered every six months. So it's, but it's 10 tests that are like each the equivalent of like the LSAT or whatever, right? Well, yeah, I've heard it described when I was going through that to get your MBA or to get something like that is the equivalent of the actual exam where the equivalent of doing a four or five year maybe more a doctorate, different opinions. The thing that made this difficult is all of us were doing this while we're working. Wow. So you're taking the exam. So where did you get a job at? At American States Insurance, which is then subsequently purchased later by Safeco. Okay. And Seattle. So it was here just right across the street actually from the Scottish right cathedral. Oh, nice. Okay. That makes sense. And this is the interesting piece. You graduate, you get a job as an actor. You're doing the work. Right. But along that journey, every six months, you have a new test for five years. Yes. And towards the end, I am doing that with triplets. a wife that is saying hurry up. Yeah. Get finished. This is a little much. Now for people that might not know, or have seen the word actuary, you know, you kind of skip over it when you're reading that. What is an actuary? Great question. I think at a very high level, we are risk managers and advisors. We utilize data, utilize the past to predict the future. And that's a very broad description, but we're typically employed in insurance organizations. So, propering cows, a life, health, all of those kinds of things to try and predict what kind of outcomes could be rates, reserves, you name it based on things that have happened in the past. Today, I feel like actuary's live in tools like Excel and all that. Like when you were coming through, was it, was, and this is going to, I don't want to be like, you know, offensive or anything, but like, was it on computers and stuff like that? Or like, were you, did you have a calculator? Very fun. So we had Lotus 123. What is Lotus 123? It was the precursor to Excel. Yes. And actually, one of the things I did early on was program, write programs to be able to pull data in to Lotus 123. Yeah, buddy. Woohoo. Okay. Couldn't get out of that fast enough. Yeah. So you then get into the insurance biz and along the journey, you're studying, you're working. Right. And it was like a thing where if you passed the test, did you get a raise? Yes. Oh, that's nice. So there's a wide at the end of the tunnel. There's a huge carrot. Yes. But then what is, are there like, how do you talk about someone who's passed three tests versus seven tests? Sure. Ten. Great example. So there are, at least on my side, which is the property and casualty side, there is something called an associate ship of the casualty, asswear, else society and fellowship of the casualty, asswear, else society. And the associate, I'm sorry, I've lost touch with, once you're finished with the exam, you care less about them. Right. Of course. But when I went through, there were seven exams to be an associate and ten to be a fellow to be a fellow. Okay. So you get through to the end along that journey. I mean, so if you did two years of a master, if you're probably pushing 30, 32 years old, so 32 years old to be like finally done with standardized test, that is intense. It was all intense. Yes. It's, it's, I got into it probably the same way most of the people do. I'm good at tests. Yeah. Everybody else that's taken these and the way they work is roughly between 30 and 40% of the people pass each test. So you're competing against everyone else that's doing this. And imagine like getting six months into it studying and you don't pass and you have to either do it again or give up. And you got to wait another year because when you get over, you get past the first few, they're only offered once a year. So yeah, it's again, back to the comment with my wife, who's very supportive. Yeah. But hey, I got three little kids here. It's time for you to be done. Why do you think it's such a rigorous testing program? I think the idea is to make sure that whenever someone has those letters after a name, that designation, that there's a baseline that we have great confidence at this individual can speak with authority. They know they're an expert. They can advise in a, in a very sound way. Yeah. Just like wild to me that you could finish up like your JD and be a lawyer and like represent, you know, you could like be a prosecutor with less time invested than in an actuary. Correct. Yeah. That's a valid plan. Wow. So like, I mean, how many, like for example, today rough numbers, ballpark, 1600 employees, how many of them would be actuaries? Oh, good question. I think we have about 10, 10 or 12. So this is like, you get this is a pretty large insurance company. This is like a, a dime a dozen position like this is a very specialized. It's a specialized field when I started at Indian Farm Bureau Insurance on the property, Kajasada was the only actual. Oh, wow. And you started in 2000, right? Correct. So where did your path bring you to Indian Farm Bureau Insurance? Well, what I mentioned earlier, I worked for any American States insurance. They were bought by Safeco. Safeco's headquartered in Seattle. And actually, I work as a home office job. And I had zero interest in moving from Indianapolis and going to Seattle. Yeah. So at some point you had to figure out something's got a shift here in change. And I was one of the things of themes of my own personal career. I was just blessed. I didn't, I didn't seek anything out. They call any Indian Farm Bureau insurance called me just at the right time, probably about six months before Safeco realized they had to consolidate those home offices. I was going to have to make a decision anyway. So this opportunity came and it was, it has been one of the great blessings in my professional life. So in need of your insurance calls and you're like, Hey, appreciate it. But I grew up on the west side of Indianapolis. I don't know the thing about farming. Yeah. I mean, that is a thing that I think a lot of people think is that it is just insurance for farmers. It is a great point. We are the largest farm insurer in the state of Indiana. We've got almost half of the market in Indiana for farm insurance. That's great. But even within that, if you kind of lump commercial lines together, farm is still our fourth largest line. Wow. Personal auto, home and commercial insurance, we write more in terms of premium in all three of those lines than we do in farm. Well, I think that it's important to know how it is today. But before that, we have to know how this thing started. You know, because I believe it was a thing that was largely started with farmers, but like a hundred years ago, you know, give me the most, yes, the backstory behind Indian farm bureau insurance. So 1934, Indian farm bureau incorporated said we have an issue that farmers are unable to get insurance in an affordable fashion. Okay. Well, let's start with for the non farmers in the room, not me. I clearly know. But like, what is Indian farm bureau? What is a farm bureau? And why do farmers need a bureau? Yeah. Great question. It's a nonprofit organization, which among other things advocates for the needs of farmers. Okay. Important. Very important. They do a ton of work in the state house. They do a ton of leadership development for young farmers to build their skill set to be able to be better farmers, better leaders and their communities. They do phenomenal work in half for a very long time. And again, in that 1930s era, there was a lack of availability for farmers to get insurance. And so that was the catalyst that said we need to do something differently. The leadership did and we have grown immensely since then. Kind of a little goofy, fun fact for you. The very first auto insurance policy that was bought by the president of Indian farm bureau, six month auto policy cost him $6. Well, I've only was still that way, right? We think our rates are competitive, but they're a little more than $6. This thing all starts as Indian farm bureau in 1919. So on the backs of World War I, farmers get together. And then as an organization that advocates for farmers, one thing they were seeing is insurance, which is crazy to me that insurance is like one of the oldest, it's like banking and insurance are like so old. It's like such an industrial. That was not what I would be thinking about in the early 1900s as like insurance policies. Like having car insurance on a Model T, you know, like that's what I have to me. Exactly. But at the same time, if you think back to what was likely happening, farming is dangerous. And it was even more dangerous at that point. And what insurance companies do is evaluate risk and say, how am I, are we willing to put these risks together in charge of fair price? And when farming was that dangerous, you had some insurance companies pulling back and saying, I'm not sure I'm okay with a number of people getting hurt and all those kinds of things. So they stepped in and said, let's do it ourselves. Okay. So then it was a separate organization or underneath the entire farm bureau. Great question. So Indian a farm bureau is the parent entity over the insurance company. So Indian a farm bureau insurance is a DBA. Oh, yeah. They actually have two company legal names. One's United Farm Family Mutual Insurance Company, which is the property and casually company and a United Home Life, which is the life insurance company, both do business as Indiana Farm Bureau Insurance within the state of Indiana. Both of them operate actually in other states, but just not with that name. Now are they, okay, so that was my next question. Are there parallels in other states? Great question. So there is a Farm Bureau, that Indian a farm bureau that advocates for farmers. There's one of those entities in every state, the union in Puerto Rico. There you go. There's Farm? Yeah. Wow. Wow. We've volunteered to go visit them regularly. We just don't have, don't get taken up on the offer. Yeah, right. There are then not every state has an insurance company in it. There are probably about 22 insurance companies that are specifically farm bureau insurance companies. Okay. So, in the meantime, when do normal non-farmers get into the mix? Like how long did it go on? I'm sure there was many years that they only insured farms and farmers. Well, actually, it started both because they still were farming, sorry, and we were ensuring non-farmers not that long after because when you file with the state where we were going to, I mentioned the very first policy, it was an auto policy. What's a personal auto policy? So we started the, it was personal policy for a person to happen to be a farmer. Okay. I got you. point to just sort of expands and saying, it's the same type of risk we can write. It starts slowly because when the farmers were the reason, they're the ones that were the first ones in, but then you talk to a friend in the local community. - Well, and the whole thing is like the law of large numbers, right? - Exactly. - You want to get volume. - You got it. - You want to make sure that, you don't just want the risk, you stuff the risky, you like put that all together to mitigate and offset. Like there's a whole, I mean, and what actuaries do is like, you say that? - You seem like you are interviewing for a job. That's an actual, you got that pretty well done. - There we go, right? - Well done, yeah. - I really saved the law of large numbers. I really wanted to use that in here. But yeah, you're right, you need, actually my first job was in health insurance. I was in Orfello, came to town, and worked at a company called Apex Benefits. And we had an actuary named Jake, and he was a math guy. He was so smart. And I just remember seeing that and like, oh, you know, it's all like, he's in like 1000, no, 10,000 row Excel spreadsheets. Not quite Lotus 1, 2, 3, but it was crazy. Just like what they're able to do. Whatever pivot tables come into the mix, I'm like, that is above my mouth. - I'm guessing Jake could have been fine a Lotus 1, 2, 3. - Yeah, you know. Okay, so you then, or the company then, evolves from 1934, and, but always is supporting farmers as well as the average user. - Correct, and expanding throughout. So one of the things, and there are gaps in the history for me, but I can tell you since I've been alive, we have been in every county. - Okay. - So even though Marion County, which is mostly non-farmers, still, that's the area that we have the most business. - Yeah, oh, for sure. - That's county. - And I mean, today you guys operate, so I have your headquarters is here in Indianapolis, but you have, I don't wanna say satellite offices, but whatever they're called in different markets around the state. - Absolutely, we have over 150 locations around the state. So we're in at least one in all 92 counties, and over 150 throughout. So we're in local communities. - Wow. Okay, wait, so this is an interesting piece too of learning. I feel like every small town in Indiana, which I visited a lot of, has like a local insurance agent. And it almost kind of, to the outside looking in, is like a franchise type thing. For you all, like what does that look like? 'Cause I feel like I see Indian up on your own insurance as like the sponsor on the back of a T-ball team. Like that's like a very common occurrence that we see. Is it like a franchise model? Is it like they have to come and interview for a job up here? Do they get to hire more agents, beneath them? Like how does that all work? - That's a great question. We actually have two different models, if you will. One is the most traditional. They come, anyone would come to interview for a traditional agent job, which would be that very thing. He or she is a, starts as an employee, would move into an independent contractor role, but they would not be hiring their own staff. We would, some of those 1200 employees, I mentioned would be staff that is helping them. We also have about 60, almost 70, that are what we call agency owners, which would then instead of saying Indian, a farm bureau insurance might say, in a wet night agency, Indian, a farm bureau insurance. That's one of the people that she would own her agency. And she has the autonomy to then hire their own staff. All of those scenarios though are still local, and there's still gonna be the names on the back of the T-ball jersey. They're all gonna have Indian, a farm bureau insurance, but a few of them, about 70 of those locations, will be with individuals who have proven their worth and their value and their ability to run a business. And so we trust them with our name and our brand. - I feel like that's a common thing is that, I think a lot of people think being insurance sales when it's so easy. It's like, oh, I could just go out there and start selling in policies tomorrow. What's the biggest misconception around selling insurance and being an agent bringing in a farm bureau insurance? - Something I would say a couple things. One is, I'm not sure that they are sales people as much as they are educators. And they are, for us, I can't speak for another, I won't speak for any other insurance companies, but our people are there to help our clients understand the risk, understand what alternatives we have available to them to help mitigate that risk, and then let them make the decision. They're not trying to close, or not trying to be hard sellers. They want to have a relationship with their clients. The other thing that they do that I would say that is remarkably different, is that they are there in their times of need. We just showed a picture to our board this past week, which I thought was very compelling. It's a Facebook picture. And it's a spouse of an agent posted this. He didn't even know if she was taking it, but a tornado had gone through their community. He gets a text from a 75-year-old client who is as windows that are out. And it's our job, it's not our job to go take care of that client's house. It's our job to replace the windows when we get a bill. But our agent is out there with plywood, putting up plywood. He's taking care of his customer because he cares about them. It's that kind of thing that makes us different than what you would see in many of our competitors. - A lot of times in this world of convenience, you're like, oh, it has to be, go on, buy it on the app, like get it quickly, the cheapest. And it's like when you do build a relationship in this world that's powered by AI, and you find yourself in a hard situation like that, whether it, no one likes to think about being in a, in a, I'll say tragedy like that, but it's nice to have people that are actually your neighbors. - I would even say critical. And let me take that. I'd talk down the path of our agents. I will say though for the overall industry, an insurance agent is in a lot of ways, I would say they're just their advocates for their clients. - Yeah. - If they look at themselves as a sales person, I think they're gonna have a relatively short live to career. - I mean, I feel like insurance salesmen kind of do get a bad route. - I agree. - It's almost like the modern version too of like the stereotype people use is like the used car salesman. And it's like, - I was trying to think that the Bill Murray movie, Groundhog Day. - Yeah, yeah. - There's a scene in Groundhog Day where the life insurance agent is just, it sees him on the corner and everybody, hey, can I talk to you about your life insurance needs? And it's that kind of perception that people have. - It's like the dial for dollars. You pick up the phone, you're making 100 cold calls a day trying to get. And then, no, this was the one where it's like, some of it lives up the stereotype. Where it's like, yeah, it might not be a good fit for you, but do you have three friends that it might be a good fit? But I'm like, bro. - Yeah, no doubt. And I say all that, knowing as you mentioned before, I've never sold. - Yeah. - But I have been with hundreds and probably even thousands of our agents over the course of this 26 years and seeing a very consistent path. - Now, I do wanna get into that. Okay, so you join Indiana Farm Bureau Insurance in 2000. You become the CEO in 2020. - 21, kind of. - Like the interim. So talk to me about how you go from, 'cause one thing you have 400 agents that are largely looking for, you know, like sales leadership. And then you become the interim CEO, having never sold insurance in your life. Like talk to me about how you lead it, something that you've never done before and how you ended up as the interim CEO. - Great question. So I would say the thing that helped me prepare, if you wanna go back to that actual real profession, one of the things that it does to pass these exams, they're all about the insurance industry and about every different area. You had to learn about investments, you had to learn about finance, you had to learn about accounting, you had to learn about sales and marketing legal. All of those things are tested. So even though you don't haven't done it, you do have some background understanding. Second, as a kind of joke about earlier, we have to be able to communicate. But my role previously gave me exposure to the agency force in a major way. - What was your role ahead of time? - I led the operational areas of the property and casualty company. So claims, underwriting, rating, things like that. So I had regular access to them. And I think over the course of time, hopefully, built their trust. - Yeah. - That A, I know a little bit of what I'm talking about. And B, I can actually speak to you. I'll listen to what you're saying. I can communicate back. - And you're not gonna come in and just slap a spreadsheet down on their desk and say like, this is the math, the math is the math. - No, but to your point, one of the things I think that is a skill that many actuaries have that we don't flex enough is to be able to put things in terms that everybody understands. You just slap the spreadsheet down. You just have one over about one and a half percent of the population. But if you explain what that means, in regular terms. - The Rosetta Stone of Excel to the common fold, right? Like you have to, that's how you're really gonna excel in this is like knowing that the bigger your, risk size population is on that side, the more it's like gonna even out and like, you know, long standing and keep people's rates where they want them to be and not have huge spikes. - Correct. And by the way, that's the same in every technical profession. Same for an engineer, same for an investment, analyst, same for financial advisor. You gotta be able to put it in terms that's your people. People you're talking about and understand. - Now the interesting piece of this is the previous CEO to you had been in the role for 40 years. So not only are you coming in with no sales experience, but you had a build relationships. You're also stepping into a role, again, someone who's done this for a long time. - Correct. - Talk to me about the circumstances that led to you. you becoming the interim CEO? - Okay, so I was in my role as the head of property and casually company for the dozen issues I come to distract. But in that, one of the things that my predecessor, Joe Martin, did in a very wise fashion, was to put in place a formalized succession plan, emergency plan. - Oh, yeah. - If something happens, here are the list of people in order that we would put into place. And in many ways, you think, that's a little bit, you don't need that. And how often is that gonna come up? But he gets gravely ill after a surgery. And the board of directors was able to very easily say, we're just, we're not to put a proposal together. There's this, we're enacting something we've already put into place, a plan that's already in place, which had named me as the person who would take over if he was incapacitated. - Well, let's think about that. Like how many years ahead of that being needed, was it put into place? - It was about five years before. - So five years, he's like, hey, just so you know, if anything ever happens to me, like you're in charge around here. - Yeah. - Like I mean, I'm sure there was definitely a formal process, but like how many people have had like one-off conversations, like that, you're like, all right, yeah, thanks boss. Then one day you get the call. - Yeah. - Like, hey. - Yeah. - You're in charge. - Yeah. - And by the way, that call happened in April of 2020. - Oh gosh. - When nobody's around, everybody's virtual. We're still trying to figure out what in the world, how do you navigate this process? How do you communicate with people across the state that are now in their homes? And then it's gonna be, yeah, it was not much fun. - So you get the helm April of 2020. I mean, we're talking about a welcome part. What's the first thing? Like you get like an email or a call from someone, like how does the process go where they're like, Kevin, you're in charge now. - So there was our general counsel reached out and said, hey, we know enough now that Joe is in a position where he's not going to be able to function for an extended period of time. So this is gonna be enacted. She had talked to the president and we go, okay. And so then there's the first step back to what we talked about earlier is to communicate. - Yeah. - Communicate with the immediate staff. My peers, which were his direct reports. And then to the entire organization, here's what's happened, here's what's going on. Let's talk about in order of importance what we do. We all need to have, keep Joe in our thoughts and prayers because he's going through a very challenging time. That's the biggest thing. Let's talk about what we do next. Here's what doesn't change. You still are taking care of our customers in the same fashion. So laying out those things and communicating and kind of easing fears was one. - And it's like, you have that going on. You also have the fear just in general of like the world that it's like, that's a lot of change happening all in one location. And it's like to be in the port where you're cutting your teeth at your first time CEO, you never done this before. No one has done the global pandemic before. It's like, but if you make it through that, you're like pretty set smooth sailing from there on out. - Well, probably not that, but smoother than it would have otherwise been. And so to that point, so did that for five, six months and then there was Joe got better. That was the most encouraging thing and then there was an open interview 'cause he was then, I need to retire. I'm at a point. But it was easy to be able to interview with our board to say how I would operate as a CEO 'cause it's like a halftime. - Yeah, it's, hey, the things you grow up to go up to. - You take a little round here like, you know, the world started to open back up and we're rocking and running still. So then in 2021, you end up being named officially the CEO. - Correct. - Wow. Now, when you were young, let's say, you know, - Many years ago. - Many years, you know, but when you were thinking of the teacher route to, I'm going to grad school route, like was running a business, something that you would have in the back of your mind for the future? - It was never in my mind even in 2020. At no point was I saying, I'm gonna navigate in my career with this goal in mind. - Yeah. - Everything I was trying to do throughout my entire career was simply do what I was assigned well. - Yeah. - That's it. And if these other things come, so be it. - I think sometimes when you, I mean, at that point you got adult children. - Oh, yeah. - No, six years ago, they would have been-- - And it would have been 22. - Yeah. Like, you have adult children, you're like, empty, nes there, you're kind of like, oh, we could, you know, but taking on new responsibility at different stages in life. When you might be a little, I don't know, intimidated or excited, like, you know what they say? Like, if you're not nervous, you don't care, right? It's like you're definitely nervous when you're going to take it on this new role. At a time where you probably could have just done the status quo and like, sail into the sunset and gone to Florida. I don't know, talk to people that listeners that might be out there that are, maybe at different stages of their career. And they're like, oh man, do I want to take this risk? Do I want to go, you know, take the promotion or chase for, be ambitious even later into my career? I was ridiculously blessed because you mentioned our kids just were graduating college. So my job, your job's not done as a parent, but it changes and diminishes materially. So if this opportunity would have come around when they were in seventh or eighth grade, I can't think of the number of things I would have missed. Yeah. The number of tennis matches, golf matches, basketball games, baseball games, you name it, that I would have missed because of responsibility. So I was very fortunate that it came around this point. Having said that, the idea of taking risk, if you don't, there isn't any return. Ever. Just any investments. You're not going to get a return on it if you aren't willing to have a little bit of potential down. So yeah, you're never stressed. You don't get better by anything. You're not going to get physically fit by just sitting. You're not going to get better at golf. I get better at your guitar playing. Pick something. You've got to take some risk and put yourself out there. When it's like you talk about being a model for your adult children that are like getting their career started. And you know, you're, again, you raise these kids. You're, you know, put into a position where you've done the same thing for 12 years. And then you're put into a position where you have the opportunity to be a leader. And it's like a short term test drive. So you could have done that and been like, all right, that was what experiment. Like go find someone different, you know, like again, I want to ride off from the sunset. But talk about like leading from the front, not only from a company perspective, but a family perspective. You're like, hey, you know, I might be seasoned. I might be a veteran here, but I can still learn new tricks. I can still push myself. I can still go pick up a new skill. - Well, and, and it's talking about being blessed again. All of this happened, remember during COVID. So those young adult children were living with us. - Oh, nice. So they, not only did they get to watch, I got to ask them for help in various things. There were, everything we did was video at that point. You had to push out videos and see, I had to make you ton these videos and you get some assistance from them. Hey, how can I do this? What would communicate this more effectively? How would you, if you were in your home, what you are in our home, how would you react if you saw something like this? So being able to lean on them a little bit was really fun. So you got triplet kids and everyone, and you, everyone's doing job interviews. Everyone's like, you know, on the video, they're doing it right there. Like, yeah, you know, you guys were in a soup for years. I'm gonna wear a soup for Martin. Now I'm just kidding. - We actually had our niece lived with us as well because her mom, single mom was COVID unit nurse. So in a long story, why she couldn't. But anyway, my favorite COVID memory, she did her schoolwork in our pantry. - Yes. - We put a desk in our pantry and send that. - You know so many great podcasts started from the closet. - I bet. - Like, yeah, you live in like, you know, the biggest city. You're in New York, you have no space. You have like five roommates all living together. You're like, the only way I get to me is Sanities in my closet. It's like two feet by two feet. It's so funny. This summer I'm exploring Indiana from top to bottom in a Rorman Rapp Tundra. Before I hit the road, I make sure my truck is ready and you should too. Rorman Auto Group is making it easy right now. 50 bucks gets you a full synthetic oil and filter service, plus it complete. Multi-point inspection, tires, brakes, battery suspension, fluids, they check it all and your tech sends you a video walk through after. If you're road driven this summer or just want your car running right, this is a no-brainer. Find a participating Rorman location near you and book it today. Up to seven fours, plus tax and shop supplies cannot be combined with other offers, C-DeeLin for full details. Now let's get back into the episode. - What advice would you have for people that might be stepping into a leadership role after a generational talent? One, you gotta be yourself. There is no way. If I tried to be Joe, I would have failed miserably. There are things about him that made him great that I don't have and things about me that he didn't have as much. Be yourself and lean into those strengths all the time. - Yeah. - The second though is to lean into the people because what made him, part of what made him great is he built this team. So recognize that. No matter how generational talent, how great this person is you're taking over, if they were any good, they had to build a really good team to make that person look good. So, hey, go lean on these people that are really, really good that they built. - Yeah, I think that's always interesting to see, 40 years doing anything. You gotta be pretty good at it. - Right. And then coming in and it's like, well, the first thing isn't, that's change everything. 'Cause, Guru, what got you here is like, you know, you have a good foundation there. And then how do you like pick up the ball and keep running and like, leading your own style? Like I do think that a lot of times it's like, that can just be a challenging piece to come in when you have big, big legacy shoes to fill. - Without doubt, it's easy to try to say, hey, look, that worked. I wanna do the same thing. - Mm-hmm. - But I guess one other piece of advice I give, if you were not just taking over for a generational talent, but taking over anything, people expect change when you take over. - You take advantage of that opportunity. If you come in and it takes you three or four years to say, hey, I think we ought to do something different. Well, why didn't you, what is it about you? You've got a relatively short window to say, look, people are looking for change from somebody that's coming in new. Figure out what's most important and go do that now. And communicate that well, where it's not like, hey, we're changing everything 'cause it was broken or done wrong. But it's like, we're innovating and we're pushing forward. And you talk about a wild time to lead in a heavy, on the backside, heavy math, heavy, like data analytics, the whole nine AI. Like you've probably led in the last six years, in the most pivotal transformational time in large data sets and AI and innovation in recorded history. I talked to you about what you guys have seen from this shift in the insurance business and how important the math and the Excel and the AI and that this and that are for what you guys are doing today. - Data is kind of king and queen right now. You have to have a ton of data. Insurance is basically, you mentioned large numbers. Well, play, we have data from, we got 225,000 households across the state of Indiana with all kinds of data that we will be able to know. - 225,000 households, what's the average size of a household? - Probably, meaning by dollars or by people. - Like people? - People, about four or four and a half. - So you think about like, so it's like a million in a 11 million, like 10% of Indiana is like, you are covering. - Correct. - That's why it's about. - It's fun. - And then, and also by the way, it's very important to remember that obligation when you go around town wearing the shirt that has the logo and people see you there. - If you did the math, 225,000? - Roughly. - 225,000 households, I like a little over four people. Like that's a million, let's say a million, just like use even numbers. Again, I'm not a math guy, I don't do public math on the pod. That would be one in every seven. Like one in every seven people you see is gonna like have be a client. - In some way shape or form. - Be it like, you know, associated with what you guys are doing. That's pretty crazy. - It is. - Go into a coffee shop and like throw a stone. Like yeah, the logo matters. - Yeah, I was just in a whole bar at Indiana yesterday. - The brickies. - He's good. And had the same thing stopped because the drive up and I'm 60 years old and I had to stop the bathroom. So walk in wearing one of the Indiana front and you see somebody in the first thing they say, Indiana Farm Bureau insurance. Oh, when you're like, oh, what's coming next? I've been with you for 30 years. You guys are great. - But you hear that way more often. And my point is the magnitude of the responsibility recognizing how many people we are. And by the way, the same thing would happen if anybody is wearing that shirt. - Yeah, I like. - They all represent the entire company. - This is why I was so excited about this podcast because it is a brand that's far bigger than any person. It's like, I mean, you could, and this is no disrespect to Kevin. We like Kevin. But we could put you in a police line up and say, who's the CEO of Indiana Farm Bureau and you're insurance and no one's gonna pick no vets. Again, no vets. Now they will. They're gonna know it's Kevin. But you walk in there and it's like, and which is good. Like you want everyone to be the same because they're all representation of the brand. - I have no interest in people seeing me in that light necessarily other than I love the company but my point, I prefer for that very same thing that they look at me the same way they would anybody else. Whether that's somebody processing a payment or somebody handling a claim or anything else in agent that we all represent the brand. - Yeah, absolutely. So do you spend a lot of time traveling the state? - I do. Probably just six, seven, eight times a year we'll get out into office. I will say, when I took over in this role, I don't mandate much. I've only mandated one thing. And that was that every executive will be visiting a county off the local office in the field, at least once a quarter. To be able to connect with and see what's happening out in the field. - Okay, so I'm from a small town in northern Indiana, Marshall County, Shut Up Urban. And we grew up in town of 1500 people. And largely, as I moved from there to, I went to DePaul University, I went to Green Castle. So I say this all the time. So like that, every day, listen to this, gonna hear this story decent chunk. But from 1500 to 12,000 to now I live in Indianapolis and I have since 2019. And largely, you can get caught in your bubble. - Right. And you only think that, again, differences in wages, like a dollar in Indianapolis, like might be more readily available to some people than in rural Indiana. Or a dollar in Broadrupal is different than a dollar on the Old North side. Like, going out and getting out of your little sphere is so important, especially if you wanna be a leader. - No doubt. In the state of India, I can't tell you if we have 15 or 20, but they're way more than one or two markets. The way that a customer interacts, what they want, what they don't want. How critical that relationship is, all of those things are different across, they're not the same in a whole bar as they would be in Nashville, Indiana. They're very, very different. And so being able to have that and to have all of our leadership team have a better understanding of that has been very impactful. - Yeah, you talk about like communicating. It's like the brand in a rural farming community when it says farm in the name, versus the brand saying farm in the name inside the 465 loop is different. - Very. - And how you talk about that. And it's like, oh, my grandfather has farmed this land for 80 years. Like we love Indiana Farm Bureau in Charents. And it's like, oh, well, there's no farm way. I don't know if there still is. I think there's that shake one horse farm inside of 465 still. Like maybe TBD, I think it's on the Northwest side of by Zeynesville. But like largely not a lot of farm land in inside of 465, I might even say zero. But so how you're talking and communicating there. And if you are, I think that's a big piece too. It's like you don't want to be seen as, oh, the corporate execs in their Indianapolis high rise. It's like you got to get out there and see the world. - No doubt. And so what I will do and what the executives will do and we're out there is we just set, I'm gonna sit and I'm gonna go around and we'll talk to every one of our employees for 15, 20 minutes. I'm gonna talk for five, 10 minutes just to ask about their family, ask them about where they grew up, know a little bit more about them. And then what is it that is making your job fun? What is it about your job that's not so great right now? What is it that we could do? Is there anything from the home office side? What are your customers want today and how are they interacting today? That they weren't doing five years ago. Those kinds of things. And it's just a simple way to let them know. I just have a different role. I'm just a human being that has the same kinds of interests and fears and anxieties and challenges that they do. But just have a different role than they do. It's not a more important role. It's just a different role. - Yeah. And like, I don't know, I think it's a cool position to be in to get to go out and listen. And then the key is how you're taking in the learnings. And it's like, you know, your office that might be in Southern Indiana. It's like, oh well, when I was up in Hobart last quarter, they're talking about this and they have like, you know, this new way that they're talking about this or this new way that they're managing people or this new thing that they put in for customers. Like, I don't know. I think being able to share that knowledge is helpful. - Without a doubt. Well, most of the best ideas are the ones you steal from other people. - Yeah, we're stealing artists, right? Exactly. It's like, you're not reinventing the wheel. You're out there. What your agents and what your offices are doing in Fort Wayne. They're probably pretty comparable to what they could be doing in Heavensville. But yes, with the exception, the only things that are maybe Fort Wayne Heavensville wouldn't be a great exception. But with the exception of the client needs and desires might be very different. So we'll see, there are some offices that we have across the state where you'll get 10 to 12 walk-ins in a morning. And other areas that won't see somebody for three or four days, just because of the nature of the beast. Some people, some clients in those rural communities want to come in and just talk to their, their agent or their field operations associate. They want to pay their bill right there in, as opposed to doing it online. A lot of other people want the convenience. So it's what we do is similar perhaps, but what the client wants can be different. - Yeah, you know the easiest way to get in front of them, like the right people in a small community. Just like, I feel like every small town has like the old farmers that go into whatever the local coffee shop is, ours, 'cause we didn't have really a coffee shop when I was growing up, was our subway. - Subway nice. - They did like quarter coffee. Like literally you get a cup of black coffee for a quarter. And those guys would be in there, I'd be driving to school every day. - Absolutely. - And you want to know the workings of the town, it's all through there. - It's like there, it's like, you take a buck in, you buy four coffees for the farmers, you're gonna learn it a lot. - Everything you know about your customers there. I love it. The one thing we were talking about, so obviously you said you had one big mandate, was get out there, see the state, be in front of people and listen. But like the industry as a whole has changed. When you're talking about modernization of technology, you know, in inputting AI automation, this everyone wants to talk about, how every company is an AI company. I mean, for you and Indian Affirm Bureau insurance, how have you guys adapted and learned in this like, again, crazy transformation will change that's happened in the last six years? - Yeah, so a couple of ways. I think we think it is very critical for us to also utilize every piece of technology that will help our employees and customers and we are confident and have been proved that AI is one of those. However, so we want to leverage that, and I'll talk a little bit about why here in a minute, we want to leverage that, but we have to make sure that when we're doing it, we've got to stay true to our value proposition, which is always has been and will be for as far as I can see in the future, our local relationship, relationships with from agent to client, from claim rep to client, from field operations associated to client, our relationships, even amongst all of us, people won't be able to re-replace. AI can't be empathetic to a person that's just had a very tragic situation. AI can't be, I don't think, as effective at explaining what's going on with a bill to a client who has a question. There are a variety of things that only the people can do. Yeah, it's not going to make you chuckle when you're sitting in a meeting and talking, having a cup of coffee. You know, there is a little bit of using it as a tool, but also having the human connection. No doubt. Our CIO has a phrase I think is wonderful. It's like, let AI do the mundane. You do the remarkable. Oh, I love it. I think that's-- I understand. That's from a tech person. Hey, you technical people, never gonna speak it. Never gonna be unfair. Every not again. So wait, wait, wait. AI do the mundane and you do the remarkable. Yeah. That is-- Yeah, mic drop right there. That's the-- There we go. Okay, I like that. But back to the other point, there is a ton that insurance company-- we are no different than many others in this regard-- have a ton of mundane. That when you add up all the mundane, it keeps people from doing the remarkable. And we have the need to be as efficient as we can with all of those processes and eliminating the mundane so that our customers are able to receive everything from us, thicker, more efficiently, which means keeping their costs to a minimum as well. Everything we're doing with innovation in AI is toward that efficiency improvement. But maintaining the individual connection, the value proposition of that local relationship. And honestly, like, I think that there's going to be a great leveling of tech. I think 10 years ago, the Sleekus platform mobile app, this that you could win by having developers craft a great mobile app. Today, everyone can create a really beautiful, great interface mobile app. But not everyone can be on the back of a T-ball team. Exactly. Not everyone can be out there bringing donuts, like being an actual staple of your community. And I do think the pull towards the shopping local, not just on the Main Street coffee shop and the Main Street restaurant, this type of thing. But shopping local, knowing that your dollar is going back in your community and is going to be-- the great analogy is on the back of a T-ball company. Or like being spent in your community versus shipped on a tech platform out to somewhere else and lining somebody else's pocket. I think that local is really captivating lots of things, even from home services. Absolutely. People want to work with local contractors. People want to work with local plumbers, local vests, local vats, like seeing that dollar stay in your community is important to people. Couldn't not agree more. And if I could take build on that a little bit, and almost do a tiny commercial for us, one of the things that we-- I get a little bit amused and frustrated by is when terrible things happen in the state of Indiana, meaning natural catastrophes, tornadoes, things like that, multiple people impacted. We will-- by the way, there's a weird pattern. They seem to happen on Friday nights. The way it weighed more often than they should. But on Friday nights, you get this something goes through and wake up on Monday morning. And you might hear one of our competitors having out on the radio that says something about we-- we are empathetic. Do we understand that something bad has happened? We are sending our claims response team in and we'll take care of your needs or something along those lines. Impressive. Our claim response team lives in the community that was just impacted. Our claim response team was there on Friday night with the people, with a customer who's had their windows blown out with it had the roof blown off. You name it. And we've been there Saturday and Sunday as well. And by the time that many of our competitors arrive, we've got most of the largest impacted customers already addressed and helped. That local is what I'm getting to. That person that you mentioned, that the coffee shop frequently, that claim rep, has been in that coffee shop. They know the individual that they are working with. The agent is their advocate. All of that local flair, if you will, that we think we do it crazy well. And we think that the popular likes it. Yeah, absolutely. And you talk about at least if something does have to get run up the flagpole, it's a shorter flagpole. It's a shorter flagpole from South Bend, Indiana to Indianapolis, then to Provo, Utah, wherever it might be. No doubt. And yes, people, it's easy to find my name on our website, easy to find many other, sometimes too much to my chagrin. Easy to find my name. But yes. And that connection that I tried to foster, not just with me, in the field, but also with our executive team means that people do. That our agents, our claim reps are able to say, hey, I had this thing happen to me or to their executive very easily. One final kind of insurance question. And then I want to shift the conversation to more broadly, Indiana. What would you say to people that they're listening to, view insurance, home, auto, light, all that as a commodity? It's just like, it is a necessary evil. I give you my premium. I want to find the lowest premium possible. What would you say to that? I would say if you want to view it that way, fine. If you want to view it as a commodity candidly, we're probably not the company for you. If you're looking for the lowest price and lowest price only, that's fine. And this may or may not be the right analogy, but I try to say, look, there are plenty of Walmart's out there. We're not the Walmart of insurance companies. We'd be a little bit more like a Nordstroms. We're a bit of a white glove service. We're the ones that can answer for you. And if you want someone, I'll use, go back to my kids example for a bit when four adult children, they all handled differently. But when they were going through making their first purchases, one of them went on, won't say where, but one of the competitors, sites, and gets a quote, I had to deal with them. I said, I believe in Indian and a farm bureau insurance strongly. I think you should have Indian and a farm bureau insurance, but you're an adult. You can do heavier, but what I'll say is if you can find something less expensive that you think, I'll pay the difference between us and that so that you get an idea to at least experience what we are and who we are. And then you make your own choice. Well, he went out and he goes through, well, here, dad, look, you guys are X amount, more expensive than us. Are we? Well, let's go through that. And you walk through with him all the differences. And when you go back and you do it apples to apples, we were literally identical. And then you start saying, well, it's not fair. They're doing kind of a bait and switch. They're done. Yeah, you're right. Yeah. They're not a bait and switch, they're offering you something very different because they want you to view this as low as price only. If that's what you want, go for it. If you want someone to be able to walk through with you, something that you don't understand very well. No people don't understand insurance very well. They only deal with it a few times a year. That's what we do. Yeah. And it's like all the different, oh my gosh. If you ever like go through the process of buying a new car. Oh. And then it's like, all of a sudden you walk out of there with a new insurance policy from like, I'm still doing car sales, but I'm like, wait, why do I need that? Like what are we doing? Yeah. I think my insurance, and I do you think who you know? And then I'm like, well, now I'm second guessing myself. Where it's like, you know, you don't want to get into, let's say it in action happens. And all of a sudden, you know, you don't have the right level of coverage or policy. And all of a sudden your car is like, great. We're going to give you five grand because that's what it's worth because you just throw it off a lot and you depreciate it 50%. Exactly. And you're still, oh, it's seven grand. And you're like, well, where do I get the other two grand? That's exactly right. And all of those things are some that if you're going and purchasing online, which you can do for us, we sell online as well. But our real value comes when you have somebody to walk you through those differences. Value. Value and price are two very different things. We have a great analogy, Martha Hoover, founder of Cafe Patatue. She came on and talked about value throughout her restaurants. And they're like, a lot of people think of value as getting the most for the least. And it's like, it's really finding that delta of where are you getting, you're just like feeling at a point where I'm getting a lot and I'm comfortable with the amount that I'm paying for that. And it's not just like, you know, when you think about the Wendy's 4 for 4, it's like, you're getting a lot for a little, but what are you really getting there? Like, you know, if you want a, you know, a lot of that, like, yeah, sure. You can. You can get a lot for a little there, but knowing like the quality that's behind it and you get the white glove approach, all that stuff. Exactly. I think that's an analogy of price versus value and knowing really what's in the details there. Couldn't agree more. We do that with regularity with our agents to our clients that they will sit in front of our clients regularly and look, everybody's got a different delta. You're willing to pay whatever. So if it's worth X to you to be able to ask me whatever you want to have a lot of our clients have a personal cell phone of their agent to know that you've got a claim rep that's sitting in your community or very close to it that you're going to have access to, it's worth that to many, many customers. It'd be worth that to me if I wasn't with Indiana Farm Bureau Insurance. I know the industry. I know what I should buy in the policy, but I still want to have somebody that I want to talk to. My agent works in our office. He may not be very excited that he works in my office because I can go ask him a question whenever I feel like. And having that, I'm willing to pay a little bit for that. And I think many people across the state are. It is nice in a world where it's like portals and passwords. Like, again, you guys have that, but a lot of times I just text Clay, shout out to my guy. Clay, yo, about that. See, that's the local thing. I know he's talking about his first name. Clay's my guy. He's good, dude. Greatest basketball player in Triton, Triton history. Dude was a dog. He's gonna love this. I hope he listens. And I'll tell you what I hope he listens and and and text him that some point asked him about his confusion and the rules of golf and a two man scramble just to leave it at that. I love that. No, I knew he was a few years older than me in in high school. Dude could who? Yeah. As someone who was not blessed and was cut from the basketball team, he that guy knows what he's doing on a basketball. I'll say one, he's also a very, very humble man. Oh, yeah. Very humble. He would never tell you. He's that good. But it's nice to be able to like, okay, this is my example. This is not even like a, this is not a commercial. This is truthfully what happened. So two years ago, we were planning our tailgate for the Indy 500. I bought a 1986 Dodge pickup truck. I love it. Like, you know, we did this whole thing. I was going on this mission to be personal. No, we're along the journey that I remember the idea of. I probably have to get this thing in cheer. Literally, I was like, well, I don't know. Who do I know that's in the insurance game? And I texted Clay and he like, spits me back like a policy and like, everything in like, I don't know, an hour or whatever. Literally, like, but for I like drove it to my friend's house to like, service it a little bit. By the time I was driving out of there, I was like, I think I was covered. I was in a good spot. And I was like, that's just something about being able to not have to go on and get my laptop or like, you can do all that now that I've gone through the whole thing. But being able to text someone and just like through text, talk to a human being that I know that I trust. I don't know. Like, that is just a part that I was like, this was before we, anything was working through with Clay. Yeah. I love that. And it actually illustrates one of our core values, which is we will operate, we will do operate business in the manner our member prefers. If you prefer to text Clay, great. If you prefer to go on or app and do that on the app, you want to go the website, you want to send, you want to call the call center, fine. We'll do it however you want to do it. Because definitely texting your agent is not the most efficient process. You know, like the lean six sigma people out there are probably like stick to the process. But it's convenient. It's like, I just like operate my life through text. It makes it so easy. So I love it. Okay. We come to a part of the show where we talk all things Indiana. This question is brought to your reference at JC Hart. We're a leader in creating enjoyable living experiences and apartment communities all across Indiana and beyond. Check them out at home is jcheart.com. My question for you, why do you call Indiana home? They know it was born and raised in Indiana, West Side of Indianapolis. As you mentioned, Cardinal Ritter high school. I have six siblings, all of whom remain in Indianapolis. Of those six siblings, my dad then has 18 grandchildren, 17 of whom are living in the state of Indiana. Not one grand kid. That's mine. It's my daughter has moved to Texas, but family is here. That's what makes home for me. Indiana's fabulous. And I would I would trumpet the virtues of Indiana to anyone in the country. But candidly, if I'd been born in Utah, I'd probably call Utah home. Because the people are what matter to me way more than the where. That is so interesting because I think those are the people that thrive the most in the who's your state. Are the ones that like you could have planted them anywhere and they would have just figured out how to make an impact and grow. And I think that that's that's special. That's really special. Okay, here's the question for you. I'm going to make you pick a favorite child. What's your favorite spot to visit as you travel around the state? I have said this locally, other than home, French lick is my favorite place in the state of Indiana. Because I have, in the last like month, I've been telling everyone, everybody knows about French like because it's like a silly name classic. You have to go. You actually do the history. It just feels like you're walking into a special place. Couldn't agree more. Like, everyone's like, I don't know. And like the problem is, is that a lot of times, you know, there's this, there's this generation that probably went through when it was on its decline. But since I believe it's the Cook Community Foundation, as I invested in there, they have like, changed the whole game up. It is so nice. And like, you got to feel like you're in like a classy, swanky establishment. Absolutely. Well, to show, among the many reasons I didn't go into real estate. So my wife is from Mitchell in the United States. It's roughly 30 minutes from French lick. Go blue jackets. Wow. Well done. You're right. Her prompt was held in, I think, as in the West Bay, resort. And I remember when we first started dating, and she takes me to show me this resort. And I'm like, this place is a dump. And then shortly thereafter, the cook group bought it. And I'm thinking, what are they doing? Who would go to this dump? Well, the answer is a lot of people. Yeah. And they had a brilliant move on their part. And it is fabulous. Love going there. We have both personal trips and company things there. Absolutely love it. I mean, any talk about for them with their headquarters in Bloomington, it's like a quality of place thing. Having cool stuff in the area. Oh, yeah. I mean, they've invested a ton in just like that South, like Central Southwestern. I don't even know because just that whole corridor is the cook community foundation has just done excellent work. Can you agree more French lick is sweet. And if your parents are like, oh, it's kind of dumpy and trashy, they have not been in the last 10 years, five years. There's no way they could have been. Yeah, it is. It's so nice. Okay. One piece of advice you'd give to aspiring leaders. Okay. Most of us are impacted by our own journey. But I would say do whatever you're doing really, really well right now. If you aspire to anything to lead, you're going to get noticed being an excellent, we'll pick in our industry, claim rep, being an extra an exceptional claim rep won't necessarily mean you're going to be an excellent claim manager. But if you're a poor claim rep, you're never going to be a claim manager. You start with do what you do well. Yeah. You're out there. Focus on that first. Develop other things about your potential leadership skills, but that's that's table stakes. You've got to do that very, very well. Make a difference in some fashion. Think about things outside of your normal sphere. Look at your process and improve it. Make it better than the people before you had it. Yeah. I think this so often people get caught up thinking about like what I'm going to do in the future that they stop growing where their feet are planted today. Exactly. And it's like, you know, for me in particular, like the more in early on in my career, you know, I did five years and three years in a tech startup and two years in the insurance game. And I was always trying to talk my way into people making people think that I was smarter than I was. And literally when I shut up and started asking people questions and like, you know, getting featured in the IBJ or like these awards or people just started noticing when I stopped trying to tell them how great I was going to be like, well, I'm going to be the best entrepreneur ever. Stop. Just like be what you are today. Like I was a podcast host and I was just like asking good questions and all of a sudden people started to care. It's crazy. But like grow where your feet are planted. But you're planting and but I think you have the second piece that I would, which is ask a ton of questions. You got, I mean, there are such great wealth of information, wisdom out there around all of us that just ask, there's a power in not knowing and not acting like you know. And I think that that is like a perception switch that a lot of people need to get to is like, it's okay to not know. Like we're all figuring it out. You know, like it's the people that have like the fake like, oh, yeah, I really know what's going on here. And it's like, mm, sure. Well, I think the three smartest words in the English language are, I don't know. And then the follow up with, but I'll figure it out. Yeah. And will you help me? Oh, I mean, I think that I don't know if that's a nationwide thing or strictly Indiana maybe Midwest thing, but like, I think that sometimes people think that asking for help is like such a, put you in like a power or a place of weakness. When you also realize like, that's an opportunity to build a relationship. People genuinely love to help. Oh, yeah. People genuinely want to help. especially in Indiana. Yeah. And a lot of times people are like, you know, I'm tough. I don't need anybody's help to do anything. And it's like, well, by being stubborn about that, one, you're foregoing the opportunity that you can be generous to somebody else down the road and help them out. And you're like missing out on building the relationship there. I totally agree. That's, yeah. Wow. I love that. We've come to the final three questions that we ask every guest that comes on the show. First is your opportunity to shed some light on a part of the state that more people need to be talking about. What is a hidden gem in Indiana? Marinated Turkey from Odin Locker. Yes. Okay. I don't know about the marinade. I haven't now had the marinade turkey. Oh my gosh. Life changing maybe is a little bit over the top, but it is amazing. Amazing. I have served it quite a few times and to probably 50, 60 different people and not a single one said anything other than this is incredible. People have then asked for the address driven the hour and a half from Indianapolis down just to get them and come back. Marinated Turkey from the Odin Locker. So Odin is in Davies County, which is like a small pocket of the Amish population lived down there. And so like Buggies, Homeign Yards, and it is like a butcher shop. Correct. Right? Like a butcher shop. Yes. That has a lot of specialties, but but Marinated Turkey is there. Everybody knows Odin for the locker. Correct. You know, like the specialty meat spa. Yes. It's incredible. Yeah. Good that. Good that. Drive down for your Fourth of July. Put that on instead of a burger and you will be a favorite. That is, I mean, there you go. Thanksgiving. You got it right there. Oh, it would be fantastic for Thanksgiving. That is a true hidden gem, like one of the best ones because those who know, know, and we've gotten probably, you know, like 20 or 30 cowards of people saying you got to go check this thing out. Right. I have not been down to the locker. I'm really excited to go. Good. Okay. Next. This is where we source new guests and learn about other people in Indiana that are making a big impact. Who's a who's you're going to keep on our radar? Someone who's doing big things. I am convinced Luke Erdog will really easily fill the shoes of Brainsmith. I think he's going to be incredible. And I think I heard him a handful of times. And I think he comes across as remarkably humble and team oriented player. I think he's a perfect fit for the Purdue. Wow. The principal team. I mean, we just had, we did a whole sports episode talking about Brainsmith draft prospect and then talking about Luke Erdog. I mean, I think he's going to be a dude. I do too. I think he's different than Brains. Yeah. But I think he's a shooter and left handed. I think that's in and of itself is an advantage. Defenders seem to struggle to remember that the person they're defending is left handed. Did you know that way? It's different. Exactly. I was like, you're like, you're trying to shuffle the opposite direction. You're like, wait a second. I haven't had to do this before. You just beat me again. Yeah. I'm excited to see that one. We have a running office bet of whether he will start as a freshman. I say yes. I think you will. I say yes. Tim will tell. Yeah. Okay. I am going to tell you we, I'm switching up this last question for you. Okay. You visualize your time on the west side of Indianapolis to Franklin to all the different places you've traveled around the state of Indiana, the different offices, you know, different communities that you guys are in. When you close your eyes and think about the perfect Indiana memory, when you think about what it's like to be at what embodies being a huzure, what is your favorite Indiana memory? It's going to sound really weird. Bum will do it anyway. I was my favorite Indiana memory that I think embodies the huzures. I was at Miami, Ohio dating my current wife, my only wife, not just current wife, dating my wife. I always say, yeah, I can't. Yeah, you don't listen. At the time she wasn't my wife. She was at Franklin College. And so a Friday after classes is driving back and going through between Shelbyville somewhere on 44. So, and I don't remember the name of town I should, but there's a one stop light and one bar that that's kind of it. In any way, my car fails. Nice. And it dies. And I'm in the middle of absolutely nowhere. And it's dark before cell phones and you have, you know, I get out and I'm starting to walk in the very first vehicle that passes stops. There's just two guys in a truck. Hey, you need help. And I'm about a mile and a half from that bar. They take me to the bar. I don't have any, any money to do anything, but the number of people at the bar that offer to help me to make a phone call to do different, they offer to take me places. And it sounds goofy to say, but that, to me, speaks what we as a state are, every person that I ran into, literally every person I ran into on that stretch from being, you know, the first two guys in the truck to the person who owned the bar. It's a different people at the bar. All of them offering to help in some fashion. And I think that's, to me, that's who, what made one of the many things that makes Indiana incredible. That is a great, a great Indiana memory that, and by the way, I had to have a few beers while I'm waiting because I'm going to drive at that point anyway. Yeah, the car is toasted anyway. It's like, sit down, wait for whoever's coming, pick you up, come there. I mean, that's like an iconic Indiana story that I don't think is unique to just you. Like people, again, talking about asking for help, people genuinely want to help. If people can, they will. And time and time again, that's come to fruition. So, having it has been so much fun getting to hang out and hear about your journey as someone who is mathematically inclined that can communicate. I think that is a truly special set of skills to have. I think that, again, your commitment, 26 years at one company, that is, I don't want to say like a lost art, but something where, you know, staying at a place and digging your roots in and making an impact is something that I think a lot of the younger generation, I don't know, isn't necessarily, isn't as common. You know, it's like every five years, if you don't make a move, like you might be falling behind or blah, blah, blah, blah. And it's like, well, there is still a benefit in digging in, making an impact, you know, coming to work every day and figuring out how do you grow where your feet are? It has just been so much fun getting to know you and your journey and we didn't even get to the part about the triplets. Like that just has to be crazy. Did you guys know going in that you were having triplets? We knew. So, we knew early in the pregnancy. So, we had just purchased a DMC UConn and I remember saying to my wife, this is stupid. We don't need something this big. We get two of us. We don't need a UConn and then coming out of the doctor's office looking around, I'm not sure it's big enough. Yeah, it was a lot of fun. Within your first or, did you? First. And then we were blessed with another one, 14 months later. Yeah. I just can't imagine going in there with no children and coming out having to play zone defense. Exactly. A Lego. Like more of them. That's wild. But congrats. I love that. They are. How old are the triplets? The triplets are 28 and younger daughter is 27. Incredible. That's so fun. I mean, you know, talk about it. Just like get it all out of the way. Absolutely. You're going to have four kids. My as well get a done one fail suit. Rip the bandaid off. It's amazing. That's where he's going to multiply. There we go. That was, he's never used that one before. He wasn't saving that for the end of the show. Man, this has been so much fun. If people want to learn more about you, they want to learn more about Indiana Farm Bureau insurance, where can they do that at? You're going to our website, www.infarmburo.com. Or get text anyone in your local community too. That's what we're doing. We are where our customers are. That's where we're in the local communities. You can find us all over the place. 150 plus places around the state of Indiana. I love it. As a faithful customer, it has been an awesome experience. It's been great. You need to learn more about you. I appreciate it. And we'll talk to you soon. Look forward to it. Thank you, man. Appreciate very much. Today's episode was brought to you by Triple A. Who's your motor club. Most people think of Triple A when their car breaks down on the side of the highway. And yeah, they do that really well. But here's what a lot of folks don't realize. The Triple A membership is basically a VIP pass to the perfect Indiana summer. Indians games Monday through Thursday, free for members. The Indianapolis Zoo, you get 35% off tickets online and half off parking Memorial Day through Labor Day. Consorts at Rooft Music Center, members get to skip the line. There's even a Triple A day at the State Fair where members get in free plus symphony on the prairie and a bunch more. If you're already building out your summer bucket list, Triple A makes the whole thing better. And if you'd like to upgrade your summer, join or renew today at triple A dot com slash Nate and use promo code Nate. 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