[Music] This is episode 92 of the Hybrid Coaching Podcast. In this episode, JK and I are going to talk about the Iraq's Coaches Summit. We've attended this past week. As well as go over the announcement that was leaked there as the Hyros Elite Division 1 and what that means for possibly the upcoming season and what else it could mean in the future. Then we go on to my video to Max that I got tested while I was at the Hyros Coaches Summit and then we wrap up a little bit of CrossFit Quarter Falstaff. Let's make Hyros Fitness work for you. [Music] How's it going today, JK? Mr. Perissignon, well thank you mate, welcome back from London. Yeah, I hope everybody enjoyed that last episode where I just put it up about it was my recording. I got asked if I was allowed to get an audio copy of the live presentation that I did and they allowed me to get that and then post it up as our podcast for this last one. Well, I have not seen that you've posted it so I'm actually going on to our Spotify right now just to make sure I listen to it today while I train. I'm excited to listen to it mate because I've got a lot of messages that from a lot of my athletes who are over there and people that I know and stuff that said not only your discussion but the actual summit was an amazing experience. So yeah mate, how was it and I guess take us through your experience, obviously been one of the presenters as well? It was really cool. I got a flight over there, it's about 10 hours, but it was a little ahead of time but with my whole like neck neck issue, the last like seven hours of the flight over there was completely miserable. So it's all stiff and everything. But I got there and it took me until the last day I was there to like get on circadian rhythm and actually sleep. Yeah, well you were messaging me at like 2am, like London time, but also that was like Vegas, like whatever it was. So I was like, hang on, are you actually in London? So yeah, I bet that would have been tough. So when I first got there, went to the hotel and like put my stuff down and stuff and then I went and met up with Lucy Proctor and her boyfriend Tom and we hung out, went to dinner, came back and I literally was like, I'm gonna go for a run because it was after the flight and everything. And it was, it was about 9 o'clock at night and I just thought, oh, I'll go for a run. But I wanted to text Lauren and stuff. So I laid down on the bed and all my clothes, all the lights in the hotel were on and I texted her and I passed out. I was done. Like I had every intention to go for a run and all this stuff. I didn't wake up. This was like 9.30, 10 o'clock by that time. I didn't wake up until 2.30 in the morning. So like five hours later. And I was like, oh, I'm gonna just shower and go back to bed. Like this is perfect. When showered, I could not fall back asleep. Like, at all, just laid there. And then finally I got up at like 4.4.30 and went to go work on my computer instead and tell breakfast open at 6 am. And I sit down to work on my computer and come to find out I brought a adapter, a charging adapter that is for Europe, not for UK. So I couldn't plug my computer in. So I had US to Europe, but not US to UK adapter. So I couldn't plug anything in. And I was like, well, if I work for two hours on my computer, that is one battery charge or like two and a half hours. That's one battery charge that's all I'm gonna have until I can go get an adapter. So did that computer died? I was like, guess that's all I get. And then I had breakfast, like met with people hung out that next day, because that was Thursday before the conference. Great, great day to meet the other speakers and stuff. We have like speaker dinners. And I got to talk to all those great presenters. There were so many that I actually got to like meet with. I can't even, I can't go through all of them. I mean, sat at a dinner table with Frederick Zeeland and Chris Hinchaw and Dr. Tate, Adam Story. Go Mar and like I saw a hit A and cherry there and hey, there's so many people. I'm sorry, I'm gonna be definitely missing some, but it was just a really cool experience. Getting to just like interact and get ideas and talk to people about what we do. So that was neat. And that was the first day. And the first time was there, he gave a little like welcome speech and stuff. And then the, and so is Jan Fernando for for Dino. He's an Olympic gold medalist triathlete and Iron Man champion. So he wanted to present us. Yeah, well, and now he just, yeah, he was brought in, I think by Christian as an athlete that could help do and talk about high performance. Things like that. Yeah. So fun, great stuff. The next day. I got to run around the, the Alliance stadium was really cool. And I got to run around that whole like Tukin ham area. I got to visit Slubin Jim and did a little board and cardio club is what they call it. Did a little workout with them. And then we went to. The next day, which was the actual start of the conference. And the sort of conference was like cool got to sit down, listen to that story about strength met with the center. Because I was going to be presenting for them on a panel. And. Got to hang out and do this like performance area stuff that they had going on and their performance area stuff had a lot of really cool. Sponsors that they brought in are like affiliate things. They're like a maze fit or train red or center or. Output sports like there was just a bunch of them down in this really fun area that was neat to hang out in. And there was one group and I don't remember who it was, but they were right next to the center booth. And they had a treadmill and these masks. And I was like, oh, we were just talking about VO2 max on the podcast the week before. And just so happens they were scheduling slots for people to come test their VO2 max when they wanted to. So I put in a slot and I was like, I'm going to do this. And I would had to go to the actual London event at noon because that's when Lucy and Sarah were going to those are athletes I coach they were going to be racing and the women's pro at that time. So I go, so maybe I should do it before that. So Friday morning around 10, 10, 30. I wait and got my VO2 max measured in the booth right next to it right next to center and. Just tons of fun. I had no idea what to expect. So I got the whole experience and I got my whole output read out that we can talk about. And figured out how compared to my am a spit watch. What it says my VO2 max is versus what it was actually measured at. Yeah, they were able to get my velocity of you to max you know they do. So it's just something that I think it's funny because we don't I I for sure don't. For like not a proponent for measuring a parameter just to get better at that parameter. So like I don't look at VO2 max is whether I increase it or not whether how it's going to affect. So I'm the race that I do in high rocks, but actually just you know our test like we say JK our test is high rocks. So the only parameter we measure is how we do in high rocks from day one to day two or event one. Yeah, whatever it is from from race to race. Yeah, yeah, so I'll go to the rest of the conference and we can come back to this VO2 max stuff. Yeah, really cool. There were lots of panels listened to talk to like Jane Urbacher. I wish I could have been in her session, but her session was at the same time as mine on day two.
And it was just super cool, like meeting people, listening to their opinions on things and how they train and how they coach people. I got to go to GOMAR session, like so much cool stuff. And then I did make it to the London venue. And the London venue, I got to watch the Women's Pro race. And so that was pretty neat. We got to see Lucy break 60 minutes for the first time in a race. And just she was real excited about it. It was cool to be able to get eyes on an athlete running through the race like that, that you don't always get to see unless it's at like a major. So it was neat going there. And then the event itself, sorry, the coaches summit was absolutely spectacular. And I think a lot of people understood what it really meant to be there at that first coaches summit and that conference that it really felt like the start of something. And to have, I think there are 300 or 350 coaches that signed up to be there. Well, yeah. So I mean, from my end in machining most of the listeners weren't there either. It looked amazing and just looked so professional as well. And as you just said, having that amount of people and the professionalism of the people that were speaking and hosting and whatnot. Yeah, it's fantastic that Hirox has been able to, I guess, like market something like this. And put something like this on. And I'm assuming, you know, like it's just going to get bigger and better each year. As you said, Anthony, like just to reiterate to the listeners. So Anthony uploaded the recording of his presentation that is just below this podcast recording. So if you want to go check it out. And as I said at the start, I actually don't know exactly, sorry, I haven't listened to it. So I'm very excited to go back on and listen to that. I guess Anthony, like from my end, they were just a roll on. And we'll obviously discuss the whole VO2 max discussion. But before that, I'm assuming there were a few pretty big announcements/things that actually happened at the summit. One being the announcement of the Elite 15 Division 1 as of next season. Were you there when I got announced? Who announced it? What happened? Yeah, so that was actually at the closing panel the weekend. Not the last panel. It was the like five o'clock or four o'clock to five o'clock one. And there was a five o'clock also closing. It was like the beginning of the wrap up. But it was with Matt Locke, Graham Holiday, Zara Peer Gianni, and Hidey Wersma. We're all up on stage. And Lauren was asking them questions and Matt Locke revealed that head 1 is coming. And that stands for head. HED is Hyrox Elite Division 1. Which as I understand it afterwards is basically a beehit that will be run earlier in the day of if first through 15 whatever roll downs, the 15 top athletes compete in the first heat 1 at a major next year. The 16th to 30th rank with X amount of roll downs it wasn't specific will be run earlier in the day on the same grid course. Yep. Yep, that's exciting. That's exciting. So like gives more athletes exposure to the grid, more athletes exposure overall, professionalism or the sport, which is really talked about. Yeah. No, I like and we've discussed this like anyone who's listening like you've probably like had discussions with your coaches, your coach, your training partners and everyone that's involved in Hyrox. So like would they ever make it Elite 20 or like how are they going to go about like really expanding and stuff like that. And I've always thought the best way to expand/grow the Elite side is not to, sorry I'll just say it's pretty much doing exactly this. I think the Elite 15 is now established and like changing that would actually be diminishing the the brand. I think being in the 15 is just like from from my end like I do not take that lightly. I ever since I've been in slash raced in the Elite 15 it's it's such a privilege. But now having a like a like a division one, it's just going to allow people to. It's just going to allow opportunity, just opportunity for athletes. It'll be interesting like just quickly because it hasn't been unless I haven't seen it but it hasn't been stated yet like I'm really curious how they're going to conduct the point system for that because like in my head I heard it and I was like okay cool this is sick like however what what's the point structure going to be for that. That division one race every major like just an example like in my eyes being in the Elite 15 even if you come 15th and being in that race for a major in my eyes like is is is and should be regarded higher than any placement in that division one race. That's my opinion because I think I think hierarchy needs to continue to what's the right word um continue to kind of like really strive for like the Elite 15 being the best race like the best of the best. So I'm just like I'm putting that out there to go okay I'm really curious as to what they're going to do with the points because what if like you're an athlete and like if you're an athlete who has qualified for the Elite 15 major but you're ranked 13th you can't row I'm assuming you can't say I'm not going to race that and then roll down and and and say I'm going to race in different right I'm assuming that won't be allowed. There hasn't been a lot really yet we don't know yeah these answers like we don't know it's not a pure speculation in my mind in my mind what would happen I mean I don't know in my in my head I think it would be the majors would probably be the ones that get paid because they're on the live stream. So you're saying the Elite 15 race not the division one. Yeah so the Elite 15 race. Yeah I would assume this is this complete speculation I would assume the Elite 15 race would get paid anybody that was on that start line I don't see how you pay anybody in head one because then you run into the situation where somebody's like I'm 15th I think I can win head one and get a higher payout than coming 15th in the major and if you decline then you decline your spot and then it would always be the 50 the roll up you know so yeah I don't know how that would work as far as the points I look at it as any pro race that's heat one heat two you know wherever they wind up 50 what is it 12 or 15 people get points in a major so if the winners. Sorry are you saying that like like it could potentially go well it's time based then for that day like if the we're earning for earning the points I would assume it would be I don't know yeah because why why wouldn't you it's the same thing as like I said is like a pro race where multiple heats run the same day and wherever they finish is yeah so that's easy do I do I think anybody is gonna win head one and beat the top five or eight in any major probably not but they could be they could make a top 10 like the guy that was ranked 16 coming in 9th or 10th wouldn't be out of the question you know I don't think anybody's gonna like go win the whole thing from head one but they could I just doubt I don't see how you can because we're so about so much like high rags are so much about racing now I don't see how you could like
even give them a qualifying spot from head one. - That would be correct. - Yeah. Even if they did win the whole thing. Like, it doesn't make sense because it's a race against the other racers. Yeah. No, that makes sense to me that like on that day, it's kind of like ranked out of 30. And you get your points from that. But yeah, as you said, it's all speculation right now. But I'm very, very curious and very exalted about it as well. Sure. It's all getting worked out and that this is this is something I thought was so interesting. Is the Matt talked about it's a progression. There's there is a transition. He called it a transition year next year. Transition so they're obviously transitioning into something. Right. So if next year's a transition year, what it seems like is over the past couple of months, we've been getting fed pieces of, you know, this is coming, you know, the point system and then relays being decided by the points and then he's you got all this going on. And there's obviously some changes happening and people had some really big knee jerk reactions to that I heard online and listening to other podcasts and stuff to some of the changes. But it's like, why don't we wait for everything to come out before we make it the like a decision. Because these knee jerk reactions, it's like, oh, why are they doing that? Well, now they're showing you like, hey, it's a transition year. This is coming. Other things are coming and it's like, oh, maybe, you know, they do have a plan and we just don't know it all right now. And you don't want to release it until things are finalized. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, great. I agree with that. Like, but hey, like if this is as Matt said, a progression and great, great progression moving forward. Yeah. So really cool stuff on head one when it comes up. I'm sure they made a lot of people really happy to because there's a lot of people that were in that like 15 to 30 range that just were waiting and waiting for their for their roll down for their opportunity to get into the Elite 15. This kind of opens it up. So now we're going to get those people that are in the 30 to 40 range trying to get into the head one division or head one race, you know. Yeah, that's right. That's right. So that's exciting. So all right, the rest of the coaches summit, like I said, really cool stuff. Big opportunities there. There were a ton of talk about like going to the next one, doing the next one too. And so there's definitely going to be more highly recommend people go to it when they can. It's absolutely 100% worth it, I think. Yeah, for sure. For sure. They were giving people a lot of value there. Yeah, that's great. That's great to hear. Anthony, I want to know about your VO2 max school. And then I want to know and have a discussion about VO2 max versus slash in relation with what we do in our own. All right. So first off, we talked about VO2 max and what is now two episodes ago, just briefly. But this was kind of interesting to me. Obviously, we talked about how VO2 max is measured. How your consumption of oxygen is being utilized, you know, and fueling your muscles. And there are other speakers at this place that talked about oxygenation in the muscles, which I thought was really cool. So the percent of oxygenation in the muscles, which was a really neat like training method. And we talked about, you know, there's people that base their training around their VO2 max as people that base their training around their velocity of VO2 max as people that base their training around threshold. Like there's people that use critical critical power models. There's people that use oxygenation models and all these people were at this summit. And we're talking about the models that they use and how it works and stuff. So it was a lot of really good insight. But anyway, I mentioned my VO2 max. So first off, I didn't know what good numbers were. Not exactly sure. Next still hurts. Running was limited. But here's how it worked. They put a mask on me first off. Like over my nose and mouth, make sure it was sealed and strapped me in pretty tight. So that I think first definitely hinders running. But it's okay. There's a lot of different ways to actually measure it, I guess, but the way they were using was flat running. So it was on a 1.0 incline on this treadmill. And they're like, all right, we're just going to start you at 7 kilometers per hour. And you have to run there for three minutes. So I did that. And then every three minutes, they would bump it up to kilometers per hour. So I did 7, 9, 11, 13, 15, 17, 19, 21. Like they kept bumping me up. I was 21 minutes in. And I just finished running for three minutes at 19 kilometers per hour, which I believe 19 kilometers per hour is 11.9 miles per hour. Yeah, which is like a 505 mile. Something like that. I ran for three minutes at a 505 mile after having just run for three minutes at like a 540 mile or whatever it was, whatever the 17 kilometers per hour was. And so that was that was pretty cool. My heart rate was up around 180 during that one. And then I ran for about 30 more seconds. And just just to speak to this for a second, I didn't know I was going to be doing this test. So I like, it's not like I could manipulate it by like taking by car or like taking gels or fueling properly. I had a giant, like continental breakfast from the hotel, the breakfast buffet. But it was a like English breakfast. So tons of eggs and beans and chicken sausage and the tomatoes and then like breads and like huge amounts of coffee because I've been up from like 4 a.m. at that point. And this was being run at like 10, 10, 30. So I had was not prepared to do this test. And I felt kind of sick as I started to, as I started to do the test. And I finished, I got to about 30 seconds in at 21, 21 kilometers per hour. I was running for about 30 seconds when I had to stop. I was like, I'm done. And then they they take it way down. They took it down to like a six kilometers per hour or something like something pretty slow and just having to go for another three minutes because then you get like your recovery from that. Yeah. Like how much did you recover in the three minutes afterwards while continuing to move? I just before we get into the numbers of the test and stuff. I literally finished the test and I was like, oh, that was rough. I already had part of a red bull was having a little bit more of a red bull. And I was like, I need to stop drinking this. And I was getting ready because I had to I had to stop. So I had to stop and go to the venue, the London venue to watch the women's race. So I had to get out of there and it was like a 30 minute drive or more by taking an Uber. So like I had to go and I wasn't feeling good. And they gave me these like wipes to wipe down as I was like finishing up, they're asking me how I am and like, walking me through with the numbers, me and stuff. And all of a sudden I felt sick and there was a trash can right there and I just start dry heaving into the trash can until finally I start cuking into the trash can. It was right next to it. And it was it was pretty gross. So I'm like, okay, I wiped my cell call down. Tom's with me, Lucy's boyfriend, we get into the car, the Uber, and we start driving. We're about 15 minutes into this drive. And I'm like, pull over, pull over, pull over. He pulls over on the side of London. I open the door dude and like a gallon of vomit. Just hold the stop the car. I wasn't feeling good. And then my stiff motion sickness, I was Uber like sent me over. So I physically put my body in a terrible place. I should have had a better breakfast. I should have like actually eaten right, but I didn't always going to do it. So that was my VO2 max experience. It was fantastic. So basically took 24 minutes to figure out my VO2 max and got to run faster and faster. I've heard this other way. It's like you can like increase in climb instead of increasing speed or increase in climb separately. But anyway, I got up to whatever 21 kilometers per hour is. So just under a five minute mile, ran for about 30 seconds, but I finished the whole three minutes at 19 kilometers per hour.
I think I put my weight in as too heavy, 'cause I've put that I weighed 87 kilograms. - Right. - And I think I'm actually 86. So I don't know how that would affect it. - Yep. - But anyway. - It doesn't really matter. - The results, if anybody's wondering, here's the results of my VO2 max test. According to my Amazfit watch here, and previously, according to the Garmin watch I had, so the Garmin watch I had said my VO2 max was 51. The Amazfit, I looked it up, it says my VO2 max is 52. So I was expecting somewhere around there. According to an actual measurement, my VO2 max is 58.1 milliliters per minute per kilogram, relative and 5.1 liter per minute absolute. This doesn't show me a lot, but it says level six of six. So, and we looked it up, I sent it to you, and we looked it up, and it says that that's a, it's good. It's good for someone might eat it. It's above average, like, what's that? - Above average. - Yeah, yeah. It's like, there's a whole bunch of fancy words that they use to create the different levels, and it's like exceptional. It's like awesome. So somewhere between like above average and exceptional, it's like, okay, that's fine. But here, I'll just read to you what it says. The maximum oxygen uptake, also known as VO2 max, is a value that describes the maximum amount of oxygen actually absorbed during intense physical exertion. In general, the higher the oxygen uptake, the better your basic physical condition. Analyzing the VO2 max is important for you because it allows you to assess your ability to recover and provides a good indicator for training planning. It is also an important parameter for assessing your general endurance potential. Good to know, the more blood is pumped by heart per minute and circulates through the body, the more O2 is absorbed from the lungs into the blood via gas exchange and delivered to the working muscles. VO2 max can only be determined by a respiratory gas analysis. All other methods that determine the math, the value mathematically only have an estimated not actual value. So that is what, like, this says about VO2 max. - Yeah. - So, I don't know what you would be 'cause we don't really measure your VO2 max ever, but it also gives me some heart rate ranges because they did measure my heart rate throughout the test as well. - Yeah. - So, it says my maximum power is at 180 beats per minute for 11.9 miles per hour, which was the 19 kilometers per hour. This estimates my ventilator, this does good. It's the ventilary threshold one and ventilary threshold two, so like where your breathing begins to increase at different phases. They correlate pretty close to me with my LT1 and my LT2. - Okay. - So, it says that my fat max and my ventilary threshold one are at 7.7 miles per hour and two is at 9.0 miles per hour. So, that's pretty close to where I would be running on the treadmill at home for my lactate thresholds. I'm actually usually running about a little bit faster than that for my LT1 and LT2, and that's based off of blood lactate test. So, this actually underestimates that, which I'm glad that's fantastic. So, pretty cool there. And then my pulse decreased about 70 beats per minute during the three minute cooldown. - 17? - 17.0. - Yeah. - So, I was up at like 180 or 190, and which means that by the time after three minutes of light jogging, I was down to about 110, 120. - Yeah. - And I'm gonna use another example of why you said at the start, a data, a measurement like this, the O2, or even your threshold pace to a point, if you are a horror, exactly, does not mean, I'm gonna say, it doesn't mean anything. This example is it necessarily like, there's some variables to it, I'm just gonna say. But if you follow Triathlon and I'm in, like you've probably heard of the name Christian Bloom, who's, I guess is one of the most iconic I'm in, half 70.3, and also Olympic distant athletes in the world, and has been for quite some time. - He, and if you follow Triathlon and fitness, you probably saw, I think it was about three or four months ago, he measured the biggest VO2 max score ever in history. - Cracked 100, right? - Cracked 100, so I think I saw, I watched the YouTube on it, 102 is his VO2 max score. 102, right? - Phenomenal, like, and no one has, I think the one before that was like another triathlete with the 96 or something, so he ended up smashing it. Long story short, the race afterwards, his first race after doing that VO2 max was three or four weeks ago in New Zealand. And Georgian, I were talking about this because people see or hear, okay, Christian Blumenfeld, oh my God, a VO2 max of 102, like he's outstanding, he's the best in the world. He placed seventh at this Iron Man. And I know this example is pretty rough because there are variables. It doesn't mean like he could have had a bad day, blah, blah, blah, blah, but I think a lot, and the reason why I'm bringing this up is because I think a lot of people think like this, they go, oh, my VO2 max is this, that means I'm gonna do X in hierarchs. Or my threshold is down, or my threshold has improved to this. That means I definitely kind of like do this in in hierarchs. And as you said at the start, yes, it's good to test for the test only. And you gotta leave it. 'Cause even Christian Blumenfeld who's got the biggest lungs in history, so to speak, came seventh in an Iron Man the other day. And yes, I'll be the first to state that that example isn't necessarily correct because obviously a race is a race. He traveled for that. Like there's so many variables, right? But it's going back to like the whole concept of measurements like VO2, measurements like our threshold. Great to know and great to test to I guess from our end as coaches to actually program accordingly. But then it doesn't mean anything when it comes to race day in my eyes. So yeah, going back to it though, Anthony, like I think a lot of listeners would understand both our philosophies I guess on a lot of programming and training for hierarchs, but take us through okay, example of your VO2, what does that tell you in relation to if you wanted to get better at hierarchs? - So with that, like anything, it's a parameter. And you know, you just, you measure where it's at. It like I said before, it's interesting. But it doesn't tell me how good at a hierarchy I'm going to be. Right? Like I would assume yours is higher, but you know what? It might not be what matters on this VO2 max actually is something that people could try to increase, but still wouldn't be an indicator for a hierarchy race is increase your velocity at the VO2 max. So where when you reach your VO2 max, your max consumption of oxygen, how fast you're running when you reach that point is pretty important. Right? That tells you that you are running a little bit faster. If this is the method of training that you're using, same thing we talk about with threshold, I want to increase the speed I'm running at when my blood lactate is at a certain level, right? Like we're always looking to increase our bodily systems so that they are more efficient when we're going faster. Yeah. Right? So that's just kind of what you want to look at for this. But one thing that I don't want people to get bogged down on is, oh, measure your VO2 max and then spend, you know, 10 weeks, 12 weeks, whatever it is, training, training,
just to increase your VO2 max, thinking that you're getting better at higher rates or thinking that you're getting better at anything else, even running, because you can increase your VO2 max and not get any better. It does not correlate to performance. There are a plethora of studies that show that, that they're just all over the place. Now what it does do is, as far as correlate, so let me just rephrase that within a certain group, right? So anybody that has a VO2 max in the same range as me, probably from 50 to 70, right? If you took a bunch of people that were from 50 to 70 and I'm 58 VO2 max at 37 years old, if you have anybody that's in that range, you could not predict the results of a race just based on our VO2 mix, right? That's not what's interesting on that is, there is progression to it. Like somebody sitting on the couch with a VO2 max of like 25, they could do a lot for their health overall by increasing their VO2 max, getting it to 30 or 40, right? They could increase it. And more likely than not, somebody who's in the range that I just talked about, that 40 to 50 to 70, they probably are trained, right? You're not just gonna step off the couch and have a 60. So they are trained. So they would beat high performance of, where they beat somebody that has like a 30, or a 35 VO2 max. But does that mean that somebody that has a 90 VO2 max is gonna beat somebody that has a 60 or 70, not necessarily, especially depending on what it's in, right? Because you could get your VO2 max measured on a bike, and then all of a sudden we go to a running race and it doesn't translate. So it's gonna be specific too. And we're not measuring VO2 max doing a high rock service. - Yep, yep. But also, yeah, because it's like, if we're going back to high rocks, like because of the stations, especially, and then being skill based as well, like a 90 VO, even the 80 VO2 max score athlete versus a 60 VO2 max score athlete, the 80 doesn't necessarily, or the 80 athlete won't necessarily win. Like won't necessarily win. Maybe they have, I think the thing is that is like, maybe they have more opportunity to get more out of their fitness maybe, but as we all know, is skill comes into the race as well. But what about like the training, like, that goes, you know, if you have someone who does need to push their VO2 max up, or to the right as we say it on like a graph, like how do you do that, Anthony? Like what, what's some of the, what's some of the ways to make sure that people are improving their VO2 max? - So there's a couple different ways. Like honestly, if you want to increase your VO2 max, one of the, and you're new, especially like, at say low level, it's basically just move. If you've got a 20 or a 30 or a 35, like it's basically just start moving, you know, like get yourself active and work on that aerobic ability to begin with. One of the things you could do as the both simple thing is six days a week, either go for a run or ride a bike, doesn't have to be long, 20 minutes maybe. And one of those days, do it as a fart lick. So like do 10 or eight by one minute hard, two minutes easy. And do that fart like once a week for four weeks. And then when you get to like, hey, I'm feeling more comfortable, you can increase that fart lick to like 10 by one minute or you can do a little progression and do like a minute, 15 hard, two minutes easy, and then progress it every week until he gets a two and two, right? And then, call out another four weeks and all of a sudden you're up eight weeks in now and you have this aerobic 20, 30 minute and easy runs that you've been able to do and you've been able to do your fart licks once a week, then start honestly doing a threshold session once a week, a threshold single and then your fart lick. Now you got two quality days per week and you can like just continue like that for a little bit. You will see, especially if you have a low VO2 max, it'll increase pretty quickly, pretty rapidly. Once you start that. - Would you also say if you do have your threshold measurements, meaning you do know a pace for your LT1, you do know a pace for your LT2, also you may have your heart rate zones as well. Would you say doing your thresholds closer to your LT2, your higher in threshold or the true threshold pace could potentially over time bump that VO2 max score up? - Oh, for sure. I would absolutely do that. But again, it's just over time, how long is that time? How long do you have, you know? - Sure, yeah. - Yeah, so. But yes, you could bump up your VO2 max by doing threshold. And I was going off of somebody who was an absolute beginner and I'm assuming they don't know their threshold. If you've never done it, you want to know your threshold. So you're saying somebody that's like a mid level athlete that knows their threshold or something or an elite athlete that knows their threshold. I don't, you could train to increase your VO2 max, but like we just said, your VO2 max does not, like once it reaches a certain level, it's not an indicator of performance. - Yeah. - Especially in a race that is an aerobic, sustainable power race, right? - If that made sense. - Yeah, so like, yeah, it's definitely, it'd be great to know all those numbers right away and to be able to be like, how, when do I get to my threshold, my anaerobic threshold, LT2, when do I get to that at, in a high rocks race or in any hybrid racing? I would say it's great to know, but it's not necessary. The other thing that I would begin to look at is that your, your, your VO2 max, it's better to measure something than it is to measure nothing, right? So that could account for heart rate, that could account for muscle oxygenation, that could account for VO2 max, that could account for really anything. It's better to measure something than it is to not measure anything. So if you're measuring VO2 max, you can get a rough idea, like this tells me what it thinks my anaerobic threshold is based on a percentage of my VO2 max. This tells me what it thinks my fat max or my, like my LT1 is based on my VO2 max, right? There are estimates of that. It's not, it's not like when we do a blood lactate test that measures those. You know? - Yeah. - So in our sport with the duration we're running, the duration we're racing, we do want to have direct measurements, but we can estimating it is better than not, than nothing aware at all. - Right, exactly. - Yeah. - Yeah. - We've been working together for over two years now. I, we have not done a proper specific VO2 max test, but it's interesting like we haven't spoken about the sampling. One thing I thought about after Worlds this year is to pretty much do the opposite to what we did last season. Last season I went straight into a marathon block, a marathon build. I have this kind of thought of, now I'd love to start, like do a month or so of like jumping like a 5K or a mile race, maybe even do a proper VO2 max test. - You want to do some spicier stuff? - Yeah, some spicy stuff. - Some 6-8, you can go 7-15 on your 5K. - I'll stop 15.
- No way, mate, no way. - I was gonna say some 60, 400 meter. - Yeah. - Okay, okay. You're just gonna. - Do you think I'd beat you in 400 meters? - I think you beat me in a 400, but 410 meters, I'll go yeah. - Okay. - I guarantee I would, I've said this to a few people before I guarantee I'd put my house on it that I would not, right now, I would not run a sub 60, 400 meters. - I think you would. - Now, maybe after worlds, give me a month of. - You think Lauren could beat me in a 400 for sure. - Do you think any other women can go sub 60 in a 400? - I know Jess Petro could right now for sure. I think Lauren, and I think Jess Petro would beat me in a 400 meter dash. - Yeah. - Okay. - Yeah. - Yeah. I hate saying that, but hey, it's the truth guys. It's the absolute truth. So we'll have to. - In Stockholm, we gotta find a track. We gotta find a track in whatever Monday after worlds, and everybody goes out and runs a 400. That might be the best time for me to beat you. - Yeah, yeah. I think so too, but yeah. Bit of the A2 Max work after worlds are. And as you've probably seen, I'm drinking my, or sloping my bike car, but I'm gonna get thresholding soon. So thank you once again. So real fast, how long before your workout, do you take that? - So at least 90 minutes. Like at least 90. I try to do about a two hour, two hours to 90 minutes, yeah. I've learned the hard way, let's just say. But it's definitely two hours to 90 minutes, yeah. Yeah, yeah. - Yeah. - So where did you get that at? - Yeah, the feed.com. I get everything on the feed. So, Morton Bike Car, they actually stock all things Morton. I love them, Morton Products. So guys, if you wanna check out all athlete supplementation, go check out the feed.com. - Yep. And if you guys want 40% off, your first time user of the feed, go to thefeed.com/thg. So any first time users, first time email signups, get 40% off their first order. I think it's up to like 120 bucks too. So I guess pretty good. All right, so we went over the coaches summit, head one, VO2 max. I know you're getting ready, and you might have to leave here just a minute. Did you look at the quarter finals workouts for CrossFit? - No, I have not actually seen slash witness anything CrossFit related. So the workouts, I just wanna know what you think you would do and which one you would be best at, okay? And then I'll let you go. - Yep. - The first one. Four time, 10, 50 foot shuttle runs, 20 overhead squats, 30 burpees over the bar, rest one minute, 30 burpees over the bar, 20 overhead squats, 10, 50 foot shuttle runs. - How heavy is the overhead squat? - For you, it would be 52 kilograms. - TV honest, I'm struggling with that overhead squat in the first place, whether it's in a workout or not. My mobility, my shoulder mobility struggles with that. So I'm probably DNFing that workout. - Okay. - I'd have you on that one. You beat me on four of the six movements, but that one made me jump. I'd probably have to clean and press and then do one like just singles for those overhead squats. - Okay. Here's the workout number two, okay? Four time completed however you want. You just have to get all the volume done. 80 dual dumbbell hang squat cleans, 40 bar muscle ups. Just that. - That's it. You can complete that work however you want. So you could do 40 rounds of two and one. - Well, my tactic would be I'd get all the AT, hang squat clean is done because I even fresh don't know if I can string 10 bar muscle ups. So I'd get all them done so I can get some reps in and then I'll just see how these chicken wings, see how these chicken wings muscle ups go. - My group would die, but I would probably try to do something like five bar muscle ups and then like seven rounds of 10 and five, maybe eight rounds of like 10 and five. - Yep. - Maybe start with a bigger set of bar muscle ups so I get those out of the way because my grip would be gone by the end. So I could just like end with some dumbbell hang squat cleans. - Yep. - And it's for you 22 and a half kg dumbbells for those hang squat cleans. - I stand it, yeah, yep. - All right, workout number three. Three rounds, 50 double unders, 10 dead lifts. Two rounds, 50 double unders, 10 dead lifts. One round, 50 double unders, 10 dead lifts. And the weights, the three rounds of dead lifts, the weight would be 225 for men, 275 for the second for the two rounds and 315 for the one round. So that's 102 kg, 125 kg, 143 kg. - Yeah, yeah. I'd be, I'd go okay with that workout apart from the last bar, the last dead lift. - You'd be doing it as a soul. - I'd be doing single today. - Yeah, yeah. I'd probably do the first set, or the first two sets with 100 I'm broken, but, that's a good workout, I like that. - Yeah, it's a little spicy, spicy thing. - Yeah. - All right, workout number four. Last one. This one, I would say you could do, but I don't think, I feel like this, if my neck wasn't hurting, I would be super good at this workout and I would wanna do it over and over. All right. Four time, 1,000 meter row, 30 cleaning jerks, 1,000 meter row, 30 strict handstand pushups. - Planing jerks at what weight? - 135 for men, 61 kg. - Yeah, cool. Yeah. I'll be having a-- - Just for reference. Just for reference, the reason why I really like this workout, when I was like deep in the crossfit, so before we really got into higher rocks, before I had back surgery, I've done grace unbroken, so like never like go with a barbell, it was like a minute and very little change, like a minute 14 or something. And then I've done handstand pushups were like probably my best gymnastic movement. I've done like 40 strict unbroken, strict handstand pushups. I've done over 75, skipping handstand pushups in a row. One of my one workout that I'm considering doing, when my neck feels better, this was years ago before the crossfit games had their event called Adalantia. This was years and years ago. So like 2015, 2016 maybe. I did just, I called it like a very gymnastics murk plus or whatever, but it was a 2K row into 50 bar muscle ups, 100 handstand pushups and 150 pistol squats into a 2K row. - Whoa. - So it was basically murk with like, it was murk with half the, with rowing instead of running, and then half the reps, but like way harder variations of those reps. - Yeah. - Screw those pistol squats as well. - Yeah, it took me like, they get ended up taking me like 45, 50 minutes, like it wasn't,
Actually, maybe there's like 55 minutes. It wasn't so bad. - Yeah. - But handstand pushups. I would love this workout. - I'd struggle with the handstand pushups at the end. But I'd probably have to get it done at some point in time. All right. I'm gonna shoot off. All right. Well, thank you for joining us today, everybody. Hope you have a great day and thank you, Jay-K. Thank you guys. I'm told to. - I do. - I'm actually there. Thank you for listening to the Hybrid Coaching Podcast. If you'd like to reach us out to us about coaching or programming, you can find us on Fitter, either James Kelly, Hybrid Coaching or the Hybrid Engine. You can also find us on Instagram at jk.jamescali or at the Hybrid Engine. If you'd like to get in contact with us, you can also message us on either those platforms or send us an email at
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