Hayley Paige: What I Wish I Knew Before My Name Became The Brand (it almost cost me everything)

If you're starting a business, there are certain things that are so fun to think about. Y'all know I love a mood board, so everything that relates to the creative, the name, the brand, the website, the vision board. But then there are the things that make you pause and ask, am I even doing this correctly? Or do I even want to be doing this? Like forming your business, getting the right documents, keeping your personal information private. This is where our sponsor at Northwest Registered Agent is so helpful. They're a one-stop shop for founders who want to launch and legitimize their business without turning it into a giant admin spiral. They help you form an LLC or a corporation, act as your registered agent, and give you tools like a business address, operating agreement, website, phone number, professional email, and free guides. They also have real corporate guides who know your local laws. Visit northwestregisteredagent.com slash HSR free and start using free resources to build something amazing. Get more with Northwest Registered Agent at northwestregisteredagent.com slash HSR free. This episode is brought to you by Indeed. You're ready to level up your business, but the pressure to find the right person to make that happen is intense. Indeed Sponsored Jobs can help carry the load. It boosts your job post to help it reach quality talent fast. Cut through the chaos with Indeed Sponsored Jobs. Get a $75 sponsored job credit at indeed.com slash podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Hiring now? Then this is a job for Indeed Sponsored Jobs. I couldn't use my name in any business for commerce. You ended up paying $263,000 to buy your name back. How does this get so ugly so fast? That is crazy. Yeah. I think every woman should strive for having you money. Talk to me about becoming one of Vogue's top 10 bridal designers globally, helping build a brand that generated $220 million in retail sales. I am a classic painting red flags pink kind of girl. If I ever had a brand, it would be named Taley Page. But if you don't know the law, the law is going to decide for you. You ended up getting into business with a company that ultimately tried to ruin your livelihood and never allow you to make a wedding dress ever again. What happens from here? Not everyone strives to have that kind of, you know, few money, you know, like, I was like a Taley elsewhere. But there is nothing wrong with money, honey. And there are going to be moments in your life where you get a seat at the table. And there are going to be moments when you know you need to get up and leave that table. Taley Page, I'm obsessed with you. Can we gossip a little bit about the wedding industry? Millennial versus the Gen Z bride. One wedding tradition that needs to be thrown out. How does a bride know if it's her dress? Oh my gosh. I love the way that you can support our show and help us grow. If you do this, we can bring you even more of the content and the guests that you love. All you have to do is just hit the subscribe button below. So please, if you wouldn't mind, subscribe to the channel. And thank you. In case you missed it, you're allowed to be hot, smart, and rich. So let's get into it. hayley page are you ready to get hot smart rich absolutely how does it feel when someone says hayley page on social media in public it feels different now feels like i earned it which is crazy to say about your name which we're going to get into your whole story later but for someone that's not familiar with you or maybe is, what do you think that they are going to take away from this episode today? I hope they feel good about themselves and that they take away some bits of wisdom and whimsy. I just got married and you're about to get married. So first I wanted to gossip a little bit about the wedding industry before we really get into what's happened to you because it's pretty, I would say the word legendary because you've actually been able to like change state laws and like really just help women claim who they are. But just to gossip a little bit first. How do you think about the wedding industry today than when you first entered into it over a decade ago? I feel like it's blending more toward high fashion and becoming a little bit more nuanced in the expressions and how design houses are operating. The creativity has really excelled, which is exciting for me. The limit does not exist in what you could do with a wedding dress. But I would say one of the reasons I got into the wedding industry is because I loved that there wasn't this feeling like, oh, I'm not cool enough for, you know, fashion tends to have that cool girl club element to it. And it was always really intimidating for me growing up. So bridal just seemed like an equalizer. It seemed like anyone can be a bride. And so it was, it felt more welcoming in a way. Well, I saw something really interesting that searches for colored wedding dresses have risen 46% since last year. And obviously you're known for color, for texture what do you think it says about a bride that doesn't choose white for their dress I feel like she's got a little something more up her sleeve and tends to evoke this type of personality with her dress I would say that it's more about feeling like you can really express yourself and it's not necessarily through an element of embellishment or sparkle or lace it's color itself that's bringing out what she wants to say. What's your favorite color of a wedding dress? Blush. Is that going to be your wedding dress color? It might be. When we're thinking about going dress shopping, it's like this huge moment you kind of play in your head and you're like, it's the day, right? Who do you recommend after so many appointments a bride brings with her on her wedding dress shopping day? I think she should bring her mom or her best friend, somebody that she knows she can really be herself with and not feel like she has to be a certain person in that moment. You know, whoever that is for you, for me, it would be my mom, although I probably won't have that moment because I'm designing my own dress. But I just feel like when the bride really feels like she can be herself and just step into the moment and listen to herself more than any other form of commentary, it's usually a really beautifully executed appointment. I would be silly not to ask this question with you sitting in this chair. Like, how does she go about that? It's inexplainable. It's a feeling. It's like this sigh or this physiology that kind of shifts. Sometimes she kind of touches the dress and moves around in a certain way, but it's like, there's like a real tell. I guess it's like a poker tell almost because you're like, okay, she's not wanting to get out of this one she's feeling a certain way she she brings on this aura and it's it's really special to witness in my 15 years of doing this it's just it's really something sweet and it's usually that is the dress so I love that you can't really explain it have you ever seen someone that you know it's their dress but like the people that she's brought with her trying to pull her a different way all the time what do you do in that situation I think the most important thing is to be an advocate for her and to make her feel like I'm not going to swayed her or push her into any decision because ultimately she has to feel really good about that even if we know you know as professionals this is her dress if she feels the pressure and she feels like it's not the right moment you don't want to be this like i'm going to tip the scale for you you just want to be her friend and say like let's take a beat you can always come back the dress isn't going anywhere you know take a moment and i understand because it's a taxing moment and it's this one dress That's supposed to really consume the whole day and the love story and your whole personality. And if you have multiple personalities, you know, like, how am I going to address all of this? But yeah, it is. It is always a little tricky when that happens. I found it to be so hard to pick one, but I had a meeting with my therapist literally about my wedding dress because we decided to get married within four months. And so there wasn't that many options. and my therapist was like stop trying to look for the perfect dress and look for the right dress with the situation that you have and taking that pressure off of like finding the perfect dress actually made me so in love with my dress and now I like see it all the time on Pinterest but if you had told me that that would be my dress I probably wouldn't have chosen that one do you see a lot of brides go in with an idea and then they completely switch what they actually want yes it's one of my favorite moments when that happens she comes in really thinking oh i want to be you know a jessica rabbit super sexy you know or like a sharon stone you know and like this the sheep look and then we always throw in a little bit of a wild card and say do you want to just try some color for fun or like a really ridiculous ball gown and usually the the answer is yes and then she gets pleasantly dazzled and is like oh wait and it's not this form of like confusion it's more a surprise and excitement that oh I am this bride actually or oh I can pull this off you know and so actually I'm curious how many dresses did you try on so I always thought that it would be like the first dress that I tried on would be the one and that actually wasn't my situation I think I probably tried on 12 and it was like the 13th or 14 in one appointment or did you go to multiple multiple places same day okay yeah and was it the last place you went to or was there one that got away and you had to go back? It was the last. It was the last. It was the last place. Is that common? You know, everybody kind of shops differently nowadays. And I'm still really getting to know like the Gen Z bride. And I feel like the millennial was really kind of our zone for a while and so it's been really exciting to kind of reintroduce but I feel like she wants to shop around a little bit and there is like these TikToks now where it's like the hundred dresses I didn't buy you know and it's it's kind of this other moment for her which I totally get but more often than not it is usually the first appointment and it's one of the first three dresses like in my history of doing it it's usually that which is shocking to me if you think about like how much you kind of go through to find the dress it's usually the first three so talking a little bit about the millennial versus the Gen Z bride Taylor Swift is obviously getting married this year who is like the iconic millennial I know you're a Swifty so what do you think she will decide to wear and how do you think this will influence the wedding design dress industry it will absolutely impact the industry itself on a very high joyful level I think she's going to go with a very old world Hollywood glam something structured with corsetry I could see her going with somebody she used on her tour you know so somebody like Vivian Westwood or Givenchy yes and it was um Sarah Burton that's who I was just thinking of so I mean it'll be interesting to see but like her stylist Joseph Cassell has been with her for like 25 years I mean so I feel like you have this amazing loyalty and trust system of somebody that knows how to dress you and that's such a wonderful thing to do to walk into that moment because she's probably been dreaming about this for a very long time so it's so exciting it's going to be a cultural shift but I also think I'm not so jaded as I am but I believe that so much of fashion is cyclical and so like as much as it seems oh my gosh this is a groundbreaking dress you know the history of fashion kind of writes its own narrative in that way and we get to revisit a lot of these silhouettes that seem fresh and new but they're from you know 1992 like there's a lot of 90s right now which is fab but from my perspective it's it's fun to see it as something that just comes back comes back again and again okay so I can grant you one wish and it's to design Taylor Swift's wedding dress what would you do with her I did design a dress for her actually because how could you not you know and that happens a lot with when you go into a collection if you feel amused and you feel excited by someone's personality or their their what she is contributed I think to women and her songwriting and relatability it's inspiring and so immediately I was like I'm gonna sketch her a dress and I'm gonna throw my hat into the ring and you have to because it's a celebration and it's also a process of fun right so we did design a dress for her and we named it track five because how track five is sacred to her on all of her albums and so it's got this hidden little swifty message in it but we just released it under the rain collection and it's like already like my favorite dress so we love her track five is out and about and she is stellar and she's got Taylor Swift inspiration in it for sure okay I love hearing a little bit more about your design process but can we go way back because obviously I can feel your passion oozing through you right now what was it about the wedding dress industry in general that just pulled you to it and has not kept you away despite everything you've been through it's my love language it's the one thing I have felt so in love with and I've always felt so in love with and I've always felt so in love with love and giddy about doing and even since a kid just this idea of dress up and putting on something that makes you feel good about yourself and there's just no doubt about it you know like when a woman walks into a room and she's in a fabulous dress and she feels good about herself the energy shifts and that confidence comes through and you can kind of carry your story through this article it holds like memory and then it becomes an heirloom and then you get to feel connected to women on this level that is just it holds so much weight and emotion and it's like I'll never take it for granted that I get to do it for a living now because it was a passion you know and it was something that seemed like a pipe dream as a kid growing up knowing no one in fashion how am I going to become a fashion designer you know and so the barrier to entry seemed pretty difficult but I just kept doing it you know and then like went to school for part of it and then now getting to do it and go through the journey I've had it's just like I've worked so hard to have her like the craft of her and now it's it's something I get to have forever. So talk to me about how you went from these little moments to becoming one of Vogue's top 10 bridal designers globally and helping build a brand that generated 220 million in retail sales between 2017 and 2020. I never thought about it in this way of like flash skyrocket to the moon you know nothing like that there was a slow burn to it in the beginning because I got my first you know ring lead of a collection when I was 25 and it felt like the opportunity of a lifetime but it also came on the heels of almost a five-year stint at another house of brands where I learned overseas development and tech pack design and international sourcing and then but prior to that I worked at Jill Stewart which was all made in New York City so you have a sample room and you're running cutting tickets and pulling fabrics from New York and so this new company that I was at I was like I'm going to do this I'm going to do this I'm going to do this I'm going to do this I'm going to do this I'm going to do this I'm going to do this I'm going to do this you know I just felt you know the wind beneath my wings because I was so excited to have this moment you know have my name on the dresses and then feel like somebody really believed in me to be able to do this and so I championed that responsibility very fast and just wanted to take my time and learning who I was as a designer I guess the actual process of it was slow just because it's not like my first collection out of the gate was like chef's kiss you know like I like in a million stories you know what I mean like it still took some time to build but I got a sense of okay this is my aesthetic these dresses are hitting I'm going to start to run with this like the striped wedding dress was probably one of our first like really big hits had like the peak tone on tone energy like it was monochrome but still had this really cool edgy vibe to it and it opened new doors new rabbit holes for designing into other dresses and then social media took off which was totally random you know and I was like this is a great way to show my work and chat with people online because I'm not that social actually in my like every day so like this is great for me I can show up when I want and then say yes to the dress came along and so again never planned on being on television but I was invited on the show and it was I didn't have to memorize a single line it just do your thing as a designer so that was that made it very easy for me so and then all of a sudden you start to see this rise and then it seems like oh it's not going to be a big deal but it's going to be a big deal it's always been that way you know for some reason you just would once you feel like you've got this momentum it feels like you've always had it but then you're you're fighting tooth and nail to maintain that momentum you know and that's the thing about growing a business is like every new milestone you hit you have to maintain that energy and then you want to go above and above and like you kind of start seeing all these spinning plates in the air and that was really what was starting to happen because we got all these opportunities outside of the bridal industry which made it really complex which came into play during a litigation so yes exciting but also a lot of things going on talking about momentum you need a team to help you fuel momentum right you need like partners you need people that believe in you and you ended up getting into business when you were 25 with a company that ultimately tried to ruin your livelihood and never allow you to make a wedding dress ever again how this episode is brought to you by indeed you're ready to level up your business but the pressure to find the right person to make that happen is intense indeed sponsored jobs can help carry the load it boosts your job post to help it reach quality talent fast cut through the chaos with indeed sponsored jobs get a 75 sponsored job credit at indeed.com slash podcast terms and conditions apply hiring now then this is a job for indeed sponsored jobs did you get involved with the company that tried to do that for you initially i was actually just bootstrapping my way to a company that would be my capital investor because i knew i wanted to ring leave my own collection there were plenty of bridal companies out there so i was really just casting a wide net of here's my resume here's my work from priscilla boston working with marquesa you know pick me kind of pick me energy at that stage of 24 but uh i met with a bunch of different companies and the particular company i went with it took like a year to get an interview there so and then once i got the interview the contract came within lickety split like it was so fast and so that was kind of one of those things where it was like shooting from the hip of like oh my gosh here's the opportunity and i better not mess this up kind of thing were there any red flags that you can look back on and be like that was a sign that something was not going to go well with this company or was it all rainbows and butterflies and sparkles and glitter right from the beginning i would say i had big blinders on big big blinding eyes of just i wanted to focus on my collection and show what i could do and that mindset i think is so beautiful as a young creator but it also has its deficits as well because you know you can really set yourself up for a bad precedent in hindsight you know it's so much easier to spot red flags and i would say i am a classic painting red flags pink kind of girl so i love that that is hard to strip away or undo is that because you just are fueled with optimism and you believe the best in people Yes, I am hardwired optimist and sometimes it can be a little reckless in your decision making and it'll all work out, you know, like the little brain in my head still says that a lot of times, like, oh, that's a problem for future me, you know, which it's so bad, but it's it's had to be unlearned. So, yeah. So you're 25. You have this interview. It takes a year to get there. They're giving you a contract. What happens when you get the contract? There was a sense of urgency because of the timeline. It was like I want to say it was like July or August. Yeah, I think I signed in August and then I had to deliver a collection by October, two collections by October. So in, you know, fast high fashion world, if you're making the gowns in a sample room, which we were, that's a that's a very quick turnaround for sourcing and pattern making and sewing and all the things. And so I felt this urgency of we need to get this done, like, you know, and of course, being who I was at the time, I very much identified as a team player and people will want to work with me if I'm more likable and agreeable. And if they really like me, anything is negotiable. And that mindset is just such a varsity. But at the time, you know, it it seemed to get me as far as it did in life at that point. And when you don't know better, you don't know any better. So it was one of those things where I signed on the dotted line. I asked. Did I need a lawyer? And I felt like there was going to be protection in that opportunity. And, you know, that was also on me to to think like that. So, yeah, it happened fast. Did you read over the contract yourself? I did. And did you have anyone in your family that had done deals like this that you could go to and be like, what should I even be looking out for? Oh, no, no. My family is all doctors and my mom is managed my dad's office. And so, like, you know, there wasn't this like, oh, we really need to take a beat here. It was like, oh, my God, this is so exciting. You know, like, go get it, girl. You know, that was the energy. It wasn't so much like, hold on. Like, we still have some leverage here. And let's make sure which I don't think I did. Even in that, like going back, I don't think I had much leverage because I was a young designer. I still hadn't held my own collection myself. And so I do think there was. I was a bit of taking a risk on a young designer, too. And I even negotiated that at that age. You know, I was like very self-aware that here's this company ready to invest in me. It wasn't like, oh, let me take a minute to see if I can somewhat define my value. I think that would have been very hard to negotiate and even tell myself back then now. Were you even thinking about what your value was when you're signing this contract? That's like your dream opportunity. All of the value to me. It was what I can do and what if I couldn't do it, you know? And so I don't know why I think that way, but I do. It's like if you haven't done anything yet, how can you set a value to yourself? And that was really what I was thinking. It was like, I'm nobody, you know, and until I'm somebody, I'm not going to be able to negotiate for myself. And that was really the mindset. And maybe it came from years of gymnastics where you you trust authority blindly. You know what I mean? And you're in this environment of like, where are the adults in the room and they're going to take care of me? Kind of thing. And when you get thrown into real life, you know, you just kind of still assume that you're going to be taken care of. And that, again, at some point when I actually do go show my value like tenfold, then they'll respect me and then I'll have a seat at the table. That was totally the mindset. I don't think that that's a you thing. I think that's a very common feeling that a lot of women have. And I would be lying if I said, like, I also didn't feel that way. And I. I think that there's this hard understanding, because even when you're starting something, right, like I interned for free so many times, like even when I was first starting to create content, it's like you trade with gifting and then it gets to a certain point where you're like, OK, like I've put in the time. And I think to go one way or the opposite, it's like you're going to get into trouble. Right. Because if you don't do things for free, you don't get the opportunities. But if you do so much for free and you don't understand your value and you don't negotiate like you don't get those opportunities. So looking back at what you've been through, what did you learn about negotiating as a woman? Now, and what would you tell your 25 year old self now in that moment of like, I have this opportunity and I'm too afraid to lose it? The way you're thinking right now about being a creator is that you have to be this masterful, like locked in genius. You can't let anything distract you. You just have this goal and this set forth mind that like you're going to be a bridal designer and you're going to try to be the best you can be and don't let anything impact that. And for some. For some reason, I was saying if I took a beat or I pushed back or I negotiated it all, I would lose the opportunity and I would lose focus on my craft. And I really believed that I thought, like, you can't have this creative brain and also have these business skills. You're just one or the other. And I think that just was me choosing a lane and saying, you know, if I perform enough over here, it is not going to matter. It'll all just come together. Right. So I think I would have to find a way to explain that to younger me that you're not compromising your craft by doing this and that also there are so many companies out there and there are so many opportunities. I was hardwired to believe you get one shot, you know, and maybe that's gymnastics, too. It's like you get one chance to stick the routine and if you don't, you fall and you're not going to the Olympics. You know, like that's kind of the pattern. And I would have tried at least, but I don't know if I would have listened. Some lessons. You just can't you can't be taught them. You have to experience it and you have to survive it because that's the only way you're going to learn, you know, and I don't feel victimized by what happened. I just feel like I learned some good lessons. Okay, so let's get into what happened. So you're 25. You sign this contract. You're given your dream opportunity. I just get right to work and a lot of it was sunshine and rainbows because I was so happy to be a wedding dress designer and at 25. To me, even at that age, I was like, don't mess this up. You know, like I would tell myself, just stay focused. You're going to do great. You know, just put your pen to paper or pencil to the sketch and kick it up a notch, you know. And so I really just got into it. You know, with what I do, there's such an emotional layer to it that you have to show up and match the energy every single day. Like there are no off days because you just don't. You don't want to ruin someone's experience, you know, and when they're coming in and they're the bride and it's there and they're coming to you like this, you know, and I like I better match that and not feel like I'm exhausted, you know, like hell with your exhaustion. Like this is her moment. Like this is main character energy every single day. And so I think I was just more focused on the psychology of it and making sure I could get that right and give enough of myself to to what I was doing. So, yeah, I didn't really. Like, oh, this isn't going well on any other facet. I just was over here. It's this is great. So let's focus over here. How long was it great for? A long time. I really just worked, worked and worked and enjoyed the process and saw it growing. And social media was so supportive, like the community over there. I'm so lucky I've had very little negative interactions on socials. And I also feel like our brand has always been. Very inclusive, like not performatively inclusive, just like. We're a team. It's a sisterhood. You're in it. You know, like that's the qualification, you know, and so I've really led with that from the beginning. And so we'd never had like this feeling of you can't sit with us. And that was great because you feel like you're growing together. You're growing with your brides. And that momentum is pretty unstoppable. The very beginning of 2019, things started to kind of unravel. And then we led into this like negotiation period. For the contract, because my long term contract was coming to an end. So that meant I had to like negotiate and hire a lawyer for the first time and sit at the table, you know, and exercise some different mental muscles. And take me back to that moment, like you're at the table, you're negotiating. Who are you up against? Really just the capital investor. At first, it was just it's kind of just negotiating. You're talking, trying to figure things out. You know, and so in the beginning, I would say it was just something I had kind of been avoiding because I'm not great with confrontation. I do tend to tell people what they want to hear. Like, I was very aware of my own weaknesses in doing that. I'm not like that anymore. I can say what's on my mind, you know, but it took a while to get there. But it dilly dallied. That's a perfect way of saying it. It dilly dallied. And the goalposts kind of moved and the delta started to get wider. And then it started to get a little scary. It was just like, this is not going well. So from the beginning of 2019 and then I would say December of 2020, so a year and like three quarters of a year later, almost two years later, that was when I was served a federal lawsuit during still negotiations, basically. We really don't talk enough about how much is actually asked of women's bodies. And for me, when everything feels like it's ever changing, I really value having one part of my routine that stays the same, which is where our sponsors are. AG1 fits into my life because it's truly the one thing that makes me feel like I've got myself together. AG1 is a daily health drink. It's got multivitamins, prebiotics, probiotics, superfoods, and antioxidants all in one scoop. Their next-gen formula is clinically shown to fill common nutrient gaps even in healthy eaters. It also supports immune defense, energy production, and gut health. Their CEO Kat Cole, who is amazing, knowing that she is leading AG1, it makes me trust it even more. AG1 has over 50,000 verified five-star reviews and comes with a 90-day money-back guarantee. For a limited time, visit AG1.com slash HSR to get a free morning person hat with your first AG1 subscription. Okay, so to back up a little bit, like in the wedding industry, what I've seen is it's very common to name the brand after the designer. It's not as common to do that in other industries, but you're not alone. Obviously, Bobbi Brown, Jo Malone, Kate Spade, these are all women that have gone through a similar story, although they actually had an exit. So like they were able to kind of like park their brand, but not really be able to use their name commercially again. Yes. Was there ever a moment that you thought, I shouldn't call this brand Haley Page Bridal because there was ever a fear for you to not be able to use your name again commercially? Never. Never crossed my mind. My mom told me to get the domain Haley Page, with network solutions when I was like 13 years old. And so I think it was almost innate in me that if I ever had a brand, it would, it would be named Haley Page. And there was never this idea of like, what's intellectual property? And what are the precautions you'd want to take to protect your personhood? If you ever do use it, there were like those conversations that like it was just none of my business at that point. You know, I had no idea. But looking at those people and honestly, so many of them have been benchmarks. So nuanced in every single scenario. And what you said about an exit is the number one thing I tell people now is that when you sign a contract, make sure there's a ripcord. That there is like a way for both parties to exit. If things don't go well, that's fair. You know, and that like, there is a way out. Because technically, in my scenario, there really wasn't that opportunity for me. And I had to resign under duress because I was served a lawsuit while still working at the company, you know, and so like, that is never ideal. You don't wish that on anyone. But, you know, to have those kind of checks and balances in a contract is paramount. Yes. No, I can 100% relate. The craziest contract I've obviously done is my prenup. And there is like ripcords on every single possible scenario. And it's like the most unsexy thing to ever try to do when you're trying to get married. But it's to protect both people. And I think that's a really good point. And I think So you don't have that. You're working at this company. You're designing under your name. You're a standout success. You have $220 million of revenue to your name for this company. And all of a sudden, the negotiation starts going south. When did you realize that there could be a moment where you might not be ever able to use your name Haley Page again commercially? That moment did not happen until the first hearing. We were served in, I want to say, December 14th. The hearing was like two days, three days later. And the judge ruled from the bench, which means sometimes when you go into a hearing, there's like a discussion and back and forth. Everyone gives their arguments. And then the judge takes a minute to like decide. But it was ruled from the bench. And in that exact moment, I couldn't use my name in any business or commerce or even to publicly identify because of the brand being a personal brand. I had to turn over my social media passwords. So anything that buried my name, Snapchat, TikTok, I had to turn over my social media passwords. Pinterest, Instagram. But yeah, it happened like this. And then there was a preservation order in place, which anyone that doesn't know that's you can't touch anything. You can't go in and like delete messages or like change the history. And if you're caught, you're in big trouble. You know, so and I follow the rules like I'm like that kind of girl. And so for me, I was like, oh, my God. So how do you think it got to that place? Because I think a lot of people with the same situation. Working for someone like Get to that extreme of a place feels like it's almost like that could never happen to me. Why do you think your former employer under Haley Page wanted all of that IP social media accounts like you to never be able to commercially use your name again? I don't know. What I thought, to be honest, or or even now, because it's really hard to understand the motivation, I would say in being graceful and answering that it's just when you're doing business, you want to protect what you're building. And I'm very much of the mindset that there are lots of ways to protect your intellectual property or your proprietary interests as a company that don't involve these very one sided or overbearing contracts. But at the same time, it's just kind of business, you know, and if you don't know the law, the law is going to decide for you. And I didn't really know how that worked. And a prenup is a perfect example. It gets this tarnished concept going into a marriage, but it's your opportunity to make your own rules, to make your own laws in your marriage, because if you don't have that, it results to the state. And then that goes back to humans that are basically going to be interpreting and deciding for you. And do you want someone else to decide that? Or would you rather you to decide it before you go in? And when you're happy, you know, and things are going really well, like that's the same thing with a business is to have that mindset, like we can have happy negotiation and figure this out so that we can make the rules rather than a court system. So I'm still stuck on like how you go to the negotiating table. You have a lawyer for the first time. You're up against your former employer. Like, how does this get so ugly so fast? Like, why were you guys not able to find a contract that could be mutually beneficial with each other? That's a great question. And I'm not sure I know how to answer because with so much of any lawsuit, it's personal. It becomes personal very quickly. Because of entitlements and feelings like I did this and I did this. And it's just the natural progression of a litigation. And in the very beginning, you have so much of this. You have an opportunity to make your arguments and it gets real creative. You know, it is not like the law is you tell the truth and then whoever tells the truth wins. Like, no, it's who can make the best argument. That's it. And then how does the judge interpret it? And it's unsexy, but it's it's humans deciding. And a lot of it, it's not so much that it's unjust. It's just that you're at the mercy of subjectivity. And that's important to know. Any young kid should know that even going into adulthood is the law is something that's interpretable. And when you can arm yourself with the right knowledge, you can use it to your benefit. And it also can help you protect your business and anything you're putting out into the world. So it's all a very positive thing. It's just in my way, very volatile. It was an extreme case, too. It wasn't business as usual in a court system, because even looking at Kate Spade, looking at Bobby Brown, a lot of those companies, they actually did sell their name. I didn't sell my name. I gave the rights for it to be trademarked in exchange for a job. I had to work at that job to get my salary. So, you know, that's that's like a real fact. Whereas a lot of these other companies, they got paid a certain amount of money in a non-compete to sit out of the industry. Sometimes it can be fair. Maybe it's a million dollars a year to sit out of an industry. For me, I was not getting paid. So even though the contract seemed to have benefits to a royalty, I was not getting paid my royalty on the dresses that were still being sold. So I was under an unpaid non-compete. So there's just differences to it. Mine was just so extreme. It's actually sometimes hard to say like, yeah, this experience is going to how what I went through is going to help you somehow. But it does because it's there's still baseline things you can do to make sure you're not in this scenario. And if that is the hopefully the best thing that comes out of my situation is that that girl that goes in for a big dream job doesn't feel like she absolutely has to give it all away to get her opportunity. I also see this just in general with women entrepreneurs and startups. Like, I don't know if you're familiar with the brand Coastal Caviar. I am friends with her and I just had a conversation with her two nights ago. So I've been watching this drama go down on TikTok and it's heartbreaking. And then the business side of myself is like, this is why your stories need to be told because this was avoidable. And like you, this episode is brought to you by Indeed. Get a $75 sponsored job credit at indeed.com slash podcast terms and conditions. Apply hiring now, then this is a job for Indeed sponsored jobs. You could have built a brand in a completely different way. And so I think it's interesting to now be that woman who people are coming to, right? And I'm so interested, like did Bobby Brown or Joe Malone or Kate Spade, like, did any of them reach out to you to be like, I've been through this? It is a strong sisterhood. Let me tell you, I love when people send me the DMs. I should see how many people sent me that video. And then Coastal Caviar, that was a very unique case. We tried to help through our nonprofit because we do. offer pro bono and low bono attorney referrals. And when we went through the case, it was really tricky. Again, everything is always very nuanced. But what was really exciting is that she was able to pivot. And now it's it's club coastal. And she just, you know, announced her store and she's got this rally in this community behind her. And the conversation we had was really like, what is in a name. It's you. You are the name, no matter what the name is. And it's like this really beautiful appreciation for like nothing will ever take away your input and your value that you're bringing to your brand, even if so much is stripped away. I loved the way she documented this. And I think this is the amazing era of social media and being these founder-led brands is like there's no one telling you what you can and cannot post. And so I feel like she in the public court is winning. People are rooting for her. People are wanting her to succeed. And I feel like the same was so true for you because obviously the legal court initially declines everything. You're like handing over your social media accounts, your IP, your name, your likeness. But the public court swayed your opinion. How can you break down the difference between the public court and the legal court and why both of them are so important? They're so important and they're so different. I would say the public court is really what made everything happen. And in my opinion, that is the reason I'm sitting here right now. That is the reason I'm Haley Page again. Not because, oh, I fought it out and I'm resilient. I was like, no, it is the individual people that showed up for me on social media, people I don't even know on a personal basis that showed up for me and really just brought this rally of ethics and reputation. I think when you're in a legal court, there's a tendency to lose your reputation. And I think when you're in a legal court, there's a tendency to lose the narrative because in my experience, I was feeling mischaracterized. What was going on in the court did not match my personal experience, which is very scary. However, on social media, I had all these girls that were like, wait, this doesn't make sense. I met you at this drunk show and wait, what? You're not getting paid for these restaurants. This makes no sense. And so I didn't even really have to do anything. They did so much of the lifting for me, you know, which was so like, to this day, I just can't believe, I had that kind of faith and belief in me from these people, but that I would have had that over a court ruling any day. I like, even if I was, I was thrown in jail, you know what I mean? It was better to have the favor of my peers and their attention in a way that was really honest. And I was trying to be as honest as possible, you know, in a legal system, it was not working. But out here in the real world, it was. And so, thank God, because that is really what shifted the tide for me. And my former employer went bankrupt in 2023. So about three years into the litigation, I got pushed into a bankruptcy court. And that's when the numbers get put out on the table. It's one of those situations in hindsight, like I look back and I was like, oh, it wasn't that bad, you know, but like in the moment, you know, your soul is on its knees. You've been roundhouse kicked to the face in your decision-making, miss. Like, that's what I was feeling. Cause I did feel the responsibility. Like I got myself into this mess and I didn't want people to feel like, oh, poor me. It was like, oh my gosh, I've let you down. And I'm going to try to figure this out because clearly this isn't working. But what also made my case unique is because it was so extreme. We went to the appellate court twice. You have the same case, same facts presented to a different court and they make a different decision. And that's, what's interesting is it's like, it's still humans deciding. It's kind of depend what court you're in, you know, and the second circuit is the one that found the social media ruling in my favor and changed the case law. And so I was really grateful for that, but the rally and the love I felt in the public court, nothing will ever replace that feeling. Cause that kept my soul alive. Like that kept me like very steady in a crazy court system, you know, like, but I had her still, she knew who I was. I feel like we got our time, together and she didn't feel like I was tarnishing her. And she told me that, you know, like metaphorically, it was just such a nice thing to experience that. And that's why I want, like, I want to give it back. You know, I want somebody else to feel that. So I'm lucky. Do people relate your story to David versus Goliath a lot? Yes. How does it make you feel? Wonderful. It makes you feel like the little guy can win and that the mighty spirit and good prevails. If someone's listening to this, that feels like helpless, they're in a situation, whether it's personal, professional, like what would you want them to hear? It's temporary. It's temporary. Everything. The moment you're feeling right now on this, like destruction in your life is temporary. And it's, and so are the high moments. You're like, you're never going to be up here all the time. And so to appreciate the contrasts of your life and the depth that you feel emotionally, I think actually makes you build your fortitude. It compounds and it allows you to build the tolerance to deal with circumstances that are just trying to beat you up. So ultimately you ended up paying $263,000 in May, 2024 in a settlement to buy your name back, your social media accounts, your IP, your sketches, and release you from your non-compete. Was that the most amount of money you had ever spent up until that moment? Oh, yeah. Well, actually, no, no, because I had spent so much more money in legal fees prior to that. So I basically had spent all my money fighting and litigation. I like spent all the money I made making dresses to fight for my right to design dresses again, which is just a funny, it's not poetry, but it's something ironic. That's what it is. But at that point where we're in negotiation, it really just came down to the fact that there was an opportunity. And if I could put some money on the table, I would be able to do that. And I would be able to do that. in this scenario. And this was advice of my business advisors. This isn't something that I was like, oh, I have an idea. This is not on me. I had these amazing people, a charrette around me that were protecting me. And they were like, I have a business mentor. I have my fiance. These guys are smart. And lawyers that are just ready to go to bat for me. And they were like, you got to put some money on the table. Because in a bankruptcy court, it means that somebody is owing money, which means vendors aren't being paid, employees. In a bankruptcy, you know, you can, you can put the math together, right? And so it was really just about, can I get to a number where it's meaningful? And just take it all. Because I didn't want to piecemeal it. At that point, I'd already rebranded. I was ready to be Cheval. Like, we're moving on. You know, I'm still going to try to fight, but like, we're moving on. And then I was like, wait, can I get it back? Because if I can, let's try. And that's basically what the vibe was. Let's put enough money out there so we can get it. I have angels around me, I'll just say, because that was how that number came to be. That is someone who truly believes in themselves and bets on themselves to put money up of that level instead of just pivoting and being like, I'm done. Like, I've fought this. Like, I need to just put this money into like a new thing and keep going. What was inside of yourself that just trusted you to like bet on yourself again? I did feel lucky that the support system I had reminded me of my credibility, that I had been in the industry for 12 years, 13 years. I built up this dressography that women fell in love with. I grew into my name as a designer. And yes, people identified me that way. But we all kind of got to this collective moment where it was like, we are going to be okay, no matter what happens. And when you have that feeling that like collective like release of like, I'd like to have my name back. Do I need it? No. It gave me negotiating power and leverage to say, I actually could walk away from this. And so that was a nice mindset to walk into that. And to also say, like, I will still be able to design wedding dresses in 2027. It's a long ways away, but I will wait for it. And it'll be a different name. And I was perfectly fine with that. It would have been a little bit of a, you know, grin and bear it. But I was having fun with shoes. I was building a new brand. And that was more than enough. How could I even be asking for more at that point? You know, like, most people don't get that arrangement of things to happen, you know. And so I just felt the gratitude and going in and saying, let's give it a shot. And if I get it, we're going to get back to dress design. ASAP. You definitely have an internal locus of control where like, you believe like, I'm in control of my destiny, things are not happening to me, like I can change what I'm doing. I am so passionate about women being able, what I call having fuck you money to be able to leave any room that they no longer feel respected in and be able to walk away. And a lot of the time, we think about that as it relates to personal dynamic women that, you know, maybe haven't worked, they've been the child bearer, and they are no longer being respected by their husband, but like, they don't have the money to walk away. You obviously don't have the money to walk away. You obviously have been able to use money to literally buy freedom. Why should every woman strive? for having that what i call fuck you money to be able to leave those rooms or those situations that no longer serve them there are going to be moments in your life where you get a seat at the table and there are going to be moments when you know you need to get up and leave that table and there is something about knowing you will be okay no matter what when you get up from the table but if you have a little extra leverage it does make a difference and in my scenario it would be dishonest for me to say that had i not had the ability to put some money on the table i wouldn't have been able to get get my name back in that moment now there's a champ that would have still it would have still gone through bankruptcy court maybe i could have gotten it for even less like who knows you know in a bankruptcy like court how that happens but i didn't know that at the time and the being able to put some numbers up made a big difference i think a lot of times women feel this stigma with finance and with money and getting more comfortable with it is a process and knowing that you're deserving of it and that you work your freaking ass off to get it there is nothing wrong with money honey and good for you so i mean that's my message i i not everyone strives to have that kind of you know fuck you money you know like i was like a alien i swear but like not everybody does but my gosh if it is something you want for yourself go get it like go get it and don't let anything stop you use it to your benefit everyone else led so why can't you why why not you you keep using my favorite word ever leverage when someone listening can you explain leverage it's the quiet power to have an upper hand and it doesn't have to be nasty it doesn't have to be something that you carry with animosity or weaponized necessarily it's just a knowingness that you are in control of your own decision and you can probably make a situation better not just for yourself but for everyone using it in the right way so now that you own your name back and you've been through this entire situation which like most people won't be in this exact situation but even from our example of coastal caviar like this happens when there's a new business owner that's listening to this thinking of naming their their brand their personal brand like how important is the name of your brand and would you ever recommend to someone else even if they're aspiring to be a business owner that's listening to this with the industry the way that it is that they ever call their brand after their personal name i think there's nothing wrong with it i just feel you have to armor yourself you have to go in with the right team of lawyers and show up prepared to make sure you're protecting your ip and it's as simple as that it's just make this episode is brought to you by indeed you're ready to level up your business but the pressure to find the right person to make that happen is intense indeed sponsored jobs can help carry the load it boosts your job post to help it reach quality talent fast cut through the chaos with indeed sponsored jobs get a 75 sponsored job credit at indeed.com slash podcast terms and conditions apply hiring now then this is a job for indeed sponsored jobs being sure that you've got full ownership and understanding how licensing works and structures of royalties and getting into the business you have to make sure that you've got full ownership and understanding how licensing works and getting into the business you have to make sure that you've got full ownership and understanding how licensing works and getting into the business you have to make sure that you've got full ownership going back to the idea of when you're going into a business partnership everybody has some kind of benefit to add some value add you can still add value they can still add value and you can still have full ownership over your ip and like period end of story like that's how it works if anybody is really putting you in a position where you feel like you have to give that up or lose control you have to give that up and that's how it works if anybody is really putting you in a position where you feel like you have to give that up or lose control of that it's probably not the right partnership maybe there's a scenario where you're getting paid to fuck you money i said it twice now mom i'm sorry maybe there's a scenario there but like seriously make sure it is worth it just make sure and go through your due diligence so eventually 2.2 million people watched you announce your name on social media for the first time when you said i am hayley page i got chills when i watched that video what was it like when you said i am hayley page i got chills when i watched that video what did it feel like for you remarkable it really did i felt so much pride in it and humility and gratitude i felt like i was saying it with people because there were moments during where i would run into people at the airport and they were like oh my god it's and then they were like wait can i say your name like you i would literally have those moments and i was like oh my god this is insane you know and so i was like oh my god this is insane and i was like oh my god when i could say it again i felt like i was saying it with everybody and that we did this it wasn't just me you know it was like we did this and that felt really cool to kind of sit with everybody that helped me and let's ride it on you know like in wedding dress it's fabulous shoes no i need to bring this up because so i talk a lot about like feminine and masculine energy right because i think a lot of the women i have on this show they're like building these empires they've done the thing and a lot of the time it's like you expend a lot of masculine energy when you're doing that and you are a very feminine woman like you can just tell that when you're what i'm sitting across from you what hayley showed up for work every day when you're like in these legal proceedings you're negotiating like is that the feminine side of you that you use to your advantage or did you bring out that masculine energy to like go and be able to do this on a day-to-day basis i love that question i've never thought of it in that context before i loved choosing the name cheval because it's a very masculine word and it did make me feel like i'm running against the wind you know but in who i am i feel like i still at the core in this very happy person and i i love my femininity and i don't think it's it's like something to weaponize but i do feel very secure in it and that's helpful showing up in a room and as and showing up as a designer i think being really honest about that has helped me and it's not so much like oh i love unicorns and sparkle and like of course they do but it's a superpower in that way like using your imagination and feeling like this is something i never actually have to lose touch with even when you're going through something really dark where you've got to put your big girl pants on and you know show up and kind of pump your chest a i would say it's just always there that side that feeling because i feel most comfortable with her and when i'm putting on a little bit too much of a performance i do tend to deliver badly like i it's just not my normal tongue you know and so i would say i'm more feminine even in those environments as well i still feel like i can be very strong and powerful from the feminine side i think that there's so much power when you can embrace your femininity and use it into your business especially when it's a business for women have you ever felt the need to shy away from that side of you to be taken seriously in business now that you've gone through what you've gone through yes and that's through little moments not so overbearing i giggle a lot and i notice it in interviews i'm gonna watch this back and be like oh i laugh too much you know there's little things that i do that are still me it's like little me in there that's like trying to fill a silence or something or maybe i'm feeling awkward i don't know i know those parts but i would say there are moments where i'm not taken seriously because of the world i'm in and what i'm showing on social media and i'm okay with that because i don't feel like i have to convince everyone that i've got a brain as well and i've been through hell and i actually full-on know how to combat like i do i know i can show up for myself i guess it's i just feel like feel secure in that so i don't have to feel so much like i need to change who i am but i would say the lessons in it are where the patterns need to be undone so really making sure i'm looking through contracts now just thinking twice before jumping into a partnership how i relay bad news to people you know like those things all require a delivery that's really important and to be taken seriously and so it's really about finding that balance for yourself because you can't go so far of a departure because you you start to feel like you're performing so so far it's it it's a balance that's working for me sometimes i wish i could be a little more assertive and like sexier you know like when you see these girls on social media and i'm just like oh my god i would never you know and but like there's a side of me that's like could i you know and so it's fun to kind of think about it as you grow as a woman you know but i also am like but i i am who i am and i want other women to feel that too like i want them to feel like they can be their own person, not feel like you have to be this to get this. So we'll find out if I get hot, smart, and rich. You already are. Everyone keeps asking me how I've grown HSR's Instagram so fast with such an engaged community, and it has nothing to do with me. It's possible for a few reasons. Number one, this community. Number two, my HSR team. I have very little to do with it because I don't want to be the type of founder who's approving captions and bottlenecking the team. Number three, because the HSR team has a secret project management tool that helps them plan, manage, and approve all social content. It's called Rella, and it's now one of our sponsors. Rella was started by an HSR angel founder, Natalie. Shout out, Natalie. Hello. And it's been such an honor to watch Natalie build this and see how helpful her platform is for social teams trying to grow, plan, give feedback, and approve content quickly. Rella makes it so easy to stay organized and move fast. It is a no-brainer for any HSR angel trying to grow their own social channel. So head to getrella.com and use code HSR for 10% off your first three months or annual plan. For the first half of my career, I wasn't allowed to take credit for my own work. I couldn't talk about what I was building, and I couldn't use my own voice. I absolutely hated it. One day, I decided that things had to change. So I became a creator myself. I started a channel called Rella, and I started a channel called HSR. I started a hot, smart, rich platform where I could share my insights and own every single word. But if there's one thing I've learned, it's that growing a following requires consistency, which is a lot easier said than done. Stanley, the AI content machine developed by our sponsor, Stan, would have been the biggest help to me when I was first starting our channel, because Stanley is specifically designed to make it easier for you to post content every single day. You connect it to your Instagram, it learns your tone of voice, and knows exactly what your audience is actually going to be like. So it's a lot easier said than done. So I started a hot, smart, rich platform where going to resonate and engage with. And it helps you create content based off of that. We just started using it on HSR, and it is unbelievable. Give Stanley a try for free at getstanley.ai slash Maggie. I think you've had an amazing comeback, specifically collaborating with influencer Rachel Martino and designing the wedding dress at the Bad Bunny Super Bowl. This is like within a few months of your big comeback. Was this a really well thought out PR, we're going to come back and like, make a huge splash and do these huge things? Or was this like, just organic opportunities that just came about and just happened to fall in your comeback era? Fell right into the comeback era. Very organic. Nothing big strategy, big picture. There is a lot of bootstrapping and relaunching in general, and just putting yourself out there. And one of the things I always tell younger designers is just to keep throwing up numbers, keep putting in the reps, keep, keep, keep, keep going. And on your worst days, you know, just stay consistent, you know. But when you look at wanting to cast a wide net, you have to think about PR, you have to think about opportunities, how to get your name out there, how to find like, moments that are cultural, like the Super Bowl. And Rachel was just somebody I connected with on Instagram, love her style, love her, you know, and we stayed in touch on Instagram. She was in need of a wedding dress, and it was literally a DM. Like, I'm still looking, and I'm like, please let me make your dress. And it was just a very casual exchange, and she was like, oh my God, yes. And so, you know, she came to Palm Beach, we got to do a design meeting, and I wanted to customize it for her because she had a very strong vision. And I always love working with brides that are like, I know what I want, you're going to execute it, but I know what I want. And that's fun because it's easier for me to say, okay, technically, I know how this is going to work. Technically, these things, they can't float, but they need to do this, you know. And so, it's a fun collaboration that way. She's the most beautiful bride. Oh my gosh. And I loved that she wanted pink and floofy. So, that was fabulous. The Super Bowl was just a connection. My sister is an amazing producer. She knows so many people in Los Angeles. And so, she was like, oh, my friend who's a stylist is going to ask you for some dresses. Literally, that was it. And I was like, okay, you know. And so, she reached out to me and said, I need to borrow. Didn't really tell me much. Sent some dresses. And so, she reached out to me and then she told me, okay, it is for the Super Bowl. And I was like, what? This is insane. What do you mean? This is for like Bad Bunny? Is he getting married? Like, or is it a dancer? Like, how is this going down? They couldn't, they kept it all under lock and key. She was like, there is a bride. We're going to have her try on a few dresses. I figured she would try on other designers. So, there was no guarantee. But she ended up picking the Haley Page dress. And it, I got to watch it unfold in real time with my team. And it was, yeah, I could not. But I was like, this is the biggest moment of my whole life. Sorry, honey. I know we're getting married. But like, my dress is at the Super Bowl. Like, it was, it was so cool. Yeah. I can't believe it to this day that that happened. What happens after that moment? Like, it was clear that it was a Haley Page dress. Everyone was wondering, is this a real wedding? What's the dress? Like, what did you see in terms of like the data or even just the cultural impact of being associated with something like Bad Bunny and the Super Bowl? You see an immediate just influx of joy. You see it on social media. That went viral organically because I think people just wanted this happy moment. And they got to watch it. And the performance, I thought, was so great. It just, it was this really cool cultural shift. And it was to the positive. And so, to be a part of it and have the dress there was like more than you could ever ask for as a designer, aside from getting to do a dress from, you know, Taylor Swift, you, Khloe Kardashian, any of these people, you know, like that would be insane. Insane, too. But it's just these little moments that really make me feel so lucky to get to do what I do. And it definitely helps the brand. It's one of those things that just gives you a lot of visibility and culture as well. But it also takes me back to like, this is what I want every single bride to feel. And I hope she does on her wedding day when she's in her dress that she's feeling that. And like, what? That I get to do that? Like, or just to be a part of it? Like, mini Super Bowls throughout the year. I wake up Saturday mornings. I'm like, somebody's getting married today. You know, like, it's so cool. Is that how you think? Yes. Yeah. So what is your wedding in terms of how big you're making it? Because if you think about a random person's wedding on a Saturday, like, I am concerned for how you're thinking about your wedding, Haley Page. I'm concerned for your well-being. Yeah. Yes. What does your wedding mean to you? Because you put it on hold for a while while this was all going down. Yes, we did. We've been excited. I feel we've had this really robust and loving relationship. I'm so lucky because we've been through a lot and we've grown as people, but we've grown together, you know. And so to be looking at this moment that we get to celebrate finally and we've really come into who we are as new people, you just can't help but smile and just want to make it the best day and hug everyone and just want to make it the best day and hug everyone and just want to make it the best day and hug everyone. Sad that I was going to ask, like, how many dresses are we talking about? I want to be ridiculous. I'm sorry, but I do. So we're going to try to figure that out. I appreciate so many designs now. I've been at this so long that like, and I was married before. So going through it 12 years ago, I just was, I knew exactly what I wanted. And now I'm like, no, I'm, I'm all kinds of brides up in here. You know, like I could, I want to do this. I want to do a little of this, you know, and then a little of this. Yes. So we're going to have fun. And Conrad's got an amazing sense of style and aesthetic. So I feel like we can pull from his like, taste and masculine energy, you know, which will make it really sophisticated and modern. And then I'm like, an explosion of whimsy, you know, so we'll find a balance in there, I think for the wedding, which is great. But the dresses, that's all me. And I'm just going to have the time of my life. Yes. Can we talk about the wedding industry? And there was this amazing cut article that came out of like, every bride wants to have her wedding now featured in Vogue. And it's like this huge status symbol and coverage. And like, especially for someone like you, who like, likely will be able to tell a story in a very different way than most brides. Is that important to you to have that featured in like the right publication? And does that make a difference for brides? I really value. Indeed sponsored jobs can carry the load. Hiring now? The industries and how they represent. And I, as a designer, I try to really be super inclusive. And I understand that there's always this like layer of, of feeling, are you good enough? You know? And so with that, it, it tends to make it feel really pressuring. And I can see from like the perspective of an influencer or a girl who really wants a lot of visibility and wants this like elevated moment. Like, of course you want that. Like, of course you want to be featured in Vogue and the New York times and dream big. And like, when you watch wedding wars, like should we get married at the Plaza? You know? And it's like, I love that. I think that's such a beautiful aspirational quality. of a wedding, but I don't think it's necessary. And I don't think it's this, like, it's this benchmark of, like, you're not going to have a good wedding if you don't get that. And I hope that's a good message to, like, anyone because most people, like, they just want to have this amazing moment for themselves and celebrate their love and be with their people and wear a freaking fabulous dress, you know? And, like, if you get that right, like, nothing else really matters. And that would just be, like, sprinkles on Sunday, you know? It would be pretty cool to have that. But if it's not in the cards for us, it's not in the cards, you know? So, like, it's. We're okay not. But we're also like, that'd be cool. So. Does getting into those publications raise your profile as a designer? Like, if someone wears a Hayley Page dress in Vogue, does it actually raise your profile and, like, help bring more opportunities to you as a designer? It's so curated and bespoke and elevated that you get this feeling immediately that your brand has this ability to range to this status level, right? Absolutely. At the same time, I feel like I've always wanted a brand that is designer and it's artistic, but it has a price range that's more accessible on some level because I do want to be able to, like, have range and start here, go all the way up to here. We can do custom dresses. And you can't be everything to everyone. We have a very specific aesthetic, you know? And so, like, we are a niche brand house, you know? But I just think it's hard to qualify anymore. It's hard to say if we're featured, we see this huge influx of followers, right? Or of brides coming into the stores. Like, it's actually very hard to say, like, this is the one thing that led to more of this to this. Because the industry now, it's so diversified and it's a bit chopped up as well. So it just, it's harder to figure that out mathematically of, like, this leads to this. Because you can have an influencer, who has no showmanship on any publications anymore. And they wear your dress, but they've got 50,000 diehard girlfriends that follow them. And you get this huge wave of brides that are like, I want to come shop a Haley Page dress. So you, like, the micro-influencers are the girls that are just really good referrals. Like, when you have these families that get married and they have six daughters. One of my lawyers has six daughters. And it is my dream to, like, make the dress for every one of his six daughters. First daughter got married, I made her dress. You know, and it's like, that's six girls. You know, like, how fabulous to be, like, part of the family, you know, in that way. So it's like, it comes from so many different places, which is a blessing. It's just diverse. I a thousand percent agree with you on even just word of mouth. So I just hired a new assistant. Shout out, Emma. You're already getting a shout out on the podcast. And, you know, yesterday an episode came out and she was, she sent it to her Austin alumni, like, friend group. And there's, I think, 50 of them in there. And she goes, this is my new boss. Like, watch the show. And she said, like, half of them already knew it and loved it. And half of them were like, who is this? I love it. And I literally immediately texted my team after and was like, this is more valuable than any press, any person other posting about this, because it is the word of mouth marketing that you actually can't pay for. And to your point, it's like, you get these families, you get these women, you get these brides, they have a the Vogue article with the one bride, because that's aspirational. But a lot of people reading that are like, well, this could never be me. Right. But we've attached such a barrier to entry potentially to get into that, to get to it. Or it's almost like, to your point, it's not that inclusive environment that I feel like your brand is so built on. But there is an element to like the right celebrity wearing the dress or the right influencer. That obviously, still matters. How do you as a designer get to those people to put your hat in the ring to be like, I want to design your dress or like, you're meeting with styles? Like, how do those collaborations actually come to be? I feel like I work just as hard to help a girl at any trunk show that I meet that I would for an influencer. Like, it kind of goes back to that matching of energy. It really doesn't matter who she is. It's she's the bride. She's the main character, you know, and like, so for me, I kind of approach everyone the same that like, I'm going to be your advocate. I'm gonna help you find that dress, even if it's not a Haley page, we're going for it, you know. And I think that's really served our brand well, because it, it creates more of like a community, as opposed to it just feeling like we're just selling dresses. It's really, really cool to be in the now right now, especially when I launched back in 2011. It was such a different world, social media, like how publications worked, you wanted to get into the New York Times, you know. And now, you know, any bride can have a moment where she's, she could go viral, or she could just have this stunning wedding that inspires other girls. And so you've got this chain reaction, every bride becomes your influencer, every single bride. And it's fabulous. And that's why every single bride needs to have a good experience. I will dance monkey dance, I want you to have a good time. Like, that's it for me. You know, it's like, I'm treating her as a celebrity. That's it. So it and it's, of course, it's great to have like anybody wear the dress, but you should treat every single client as if there's an opportunity for word of mouth for a reputation building for compounding who you want to be as a brand. I'm obsessed with that. We have to like end there before we go into rapid fire because that was so powerful. Like treat every bride like an influencer is so chef's kiss. Okay, Haley Page. Yes. What is the last thing you put on your credit card? A rental car. So unglamorous. What is the last most expensive thing you put on your credit card? Oh, actually, no, I can say this. I got Conrad's birthday present. It's a body scan. The like MRI thing where they check you for health and everything. And so now we like we're like our health. We're like we're at that age where we want to stay around. We've got nieces and nephews now, you know, and our parents. And so I got him that and it was expensive. Yeah. Is it prenuvo? It's it's like that. Okay. It's the one that's in West Palm Beach. Okay. Yes. I actually love that as a gift idea, by the way. There's a company coming here that I'm obsessed. It's called Necco Health from London. It's opening in New York. It's only two hundred and ninety nine dollars. And it does like the basic. That's not what I paid. Yeah. It's amazing. It doesn't do like testing for tumors, but it does testing for all of your moles. So they identified like I have fifteen hundred moles on my body. And so it's like checking for skin cancer, checking your metabolic health, your heart health. Two hundred nine dollars in the UK. Yeah. And it's coming here, but not until like the end of the year. Resend. Yeah. Okay. I'm so interested. What is your credit card? I have a Chase Inc. Recommend. Don't recommend. It gives you three times the points. And I I'm in a unique scenario because a lot of the stuff I do for work is through my like through my business partnership. And so God bless them. They pay for a lot of my expenses, you know. So with that, I I don't really have a credit card that often. But I do rely on Conrad for a lot of this stuff still. Like he is so locked in on financial stuff. And so I I have like a built in A.I. guy that can just tell me what to do. Yeah. You can only design one of these dresses for the rest of your life. This is a really unfair question to ask you, actually, after what you've been through. But yes, a bardo, a strapless or a high neck strapless. That was immediate. Ball gown. OK. Love, you know. And blush. Yes. OK. What's better to have on your wedding day for all the brides listening? Confidence or calmness? Confidence. I've never met a calm bride. Actually, no, that's not true. I was a calm bride. Were you a calm bride? Really calm. Like I had two weddings, to be fair. August 28th, because you'll die. Both of my husband and my parents were married on the 12th. And I was so calm. And I would not say I'm a calm person. So sweet. Yeah. That's really Kismet. How many guests? Twelve. Oh, my gosh. That's so sweet. Yeah. That is special. And then we had a 250 person celebration. But and then. Yeah. Yeah. Different dresses. Yeah. But I wore I wore three dresses the second wedding. And then I actually did wear the dress I got married and to do our first dance because we never got to do that. Oh, yeah. Really fun. Yeah. What is your worth splurging on for your wedding? Photography, location or food? Dress. No, babe, that I knew I couldn't put that in there because that wasn't obvious. Oh, OK. Sorry. Hmm. I would say food slash drink. OK. Keep the party going. Yeah. Because there's people and everybody want it's a feast, you know, and people want to drink and have fun. So I would say that's a big chunk because we're like venues. There's so many great venues out there and they can really deliver. And there's so many great photographers. Oh, my God. But yeah, it's I would say that that's one that's one area. I feel like people forget how expensive it actually is. OK. Yeah. Have you seen this discourse online about destination weddings and people feeling upset about people having them? A little. Are you pro or con destination wedding? I'm pro. OK. I think it's fab. It's a way to just say, like, we're going to go have a weekend. You know, come with us. Let's have a vacay and let's Let's go on. out. I would say it's a bigger lift because your guests, you know, they have to get on a plane and it's expensive and they have to book a hotel room. But I also think maybe that comes with the expectation of you don't have to go. It's okay. You can skip out on someone's wedding. But that's my personal opinion. Like, I never get offended if somebody's like, oh, we can't make it, you know, especially if you're asking them to come that far or to spend that kind of money. Totally. So one wedding tradition that needs to be thrown out. Oh, gosh. The number one that needs to be thrown out. Okay. This is so silly that you have to wear white because you don't. You can wear blue or mint green. I love that. Or rainbow. I cannot wait to see what dress you're going to wear, all the dresses that you're going to wear. I do these things called HSR love notes, which is basically an affirmation. If you can only say one thing to yourself for the rest of your life to keep going, what would it be? I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't be kind. That just comes right off the tongue every time. Like in any scenario, you will not regret being kind to people. It's not a weakness either. It's a form of like respect. I think you can go far with that. I know you don't do eras necessarily or you're not titling it, but we do title the season of our life here. So if you had to title the season of your life, what would it be because it's like bride bridal, but it's like unbridled. Obsessed. Let's go. I'm obsessed. Let's get in. We're going bridal shopping. Okay. Haley page. I'm obsessed with you. Where can people find you and how can HSR help you? Well, I'm so grateful to be here. You've already helped just had a conversation, but I, I mostly on Instagram at Miss Haley page. I got that Instagram back. I have all the glitters, which was the account I used when I didn't have my Instagram. It's, it's like one of those things where you're like, I don't know. I don't know. I get overwhelmed because I have so many accounts now on Instagram. I know. And then people are like, Oh no, you got to start a sub stack now, you know? And Oh, you got to be on YouTube and you got to be on Tik TOK and you got it. And so like, I've just told myself like quiet, the noise a little bit. Instagram is your lane. Do as much as you can over there. If something inspires you in another, just do it at leisure, but you can't do it all. Like you really can't, especially with how much it demands of you to do it. Right. And so I'm like, Oh, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. So it's like, I'd rather go deep on Instagram than anywhere else. So, but we'll see. We'll see. Um, but that, and then Haley page.com and we have our nonprofit and we have our shoes. She is Chabal. So that's that. Thank you so much for coming on hot smart. We love you. I love you. Thank you. So fun to think about. Y'all know, I love a mood board. So everything that relates to the creative, the name, the brand, the website, the vision board, but then there are the things that make you pause and ask, am I even doing this correctly? There are one-stop shop for founders who want to launch and legitimize their business without turning it into a giant admin They help you form an LLC or a corporation act as your registered agent and give you tools like a business address, operating agreement, website, phone number, professional email, and free guides. They also have real corporate guides who know your local laws, visit Northwest registered agent.com slash HSR free and start using free resources to build something amazing. 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