Havana Syndrome Pt. 1

When you say the complication is the altitude, why? Is it because of the breathing or what? You don't know how your body will react to it, so it's not like you are altitude sick or you are born or you are diagnosed. It's just like you're there and then suddenly you cannot continue. So that's the thing that you keep in your mind that you are like, "Am I going to make this? Am I going to be sick? Am I going to be, you know, able to do it or not?" That was mainly the everyday we will gain some altitude, we will gain some more altitude and then sleep lower. So you know that was a strategy. Okay, we walk, walk, walk, we get to the camp, we eat there and then we go down and we sleep. And then slowly slowly we were able to do it, we were taking some medicine. Oh, wait a second. So okay, hold on. So you're like going up to a higher altitude but then you go down again so that your body has some relief. Exactly. Yes. Welcome to the Audacious Founder Podcast where being bold in business is just the beginning. I'm your host Melissa Manning and around here we believe building wealth is personal. Legacy is intentional and Audacity is non-negotiable. This show is for the person who knows their built for more, more freedom, more power, more purpose and isn't afraid to claim it. Whether you're growing a business, investing with intention or designing a life that actually feels like yours, you're in the right place. Each week we go deep on money, on mindset, leadership and life with unfiltered stories, actionable strategies and conversations that light a fire under your future. Because being bold in business, that's just how it starts. Welcome to your next level. Are you looking for your kind of people? The ones who dream big, build boldly and actually get what you're creating? Then don't miss the next Audacious Founder Networking event. Whether you're launching your first offer or scaling your empire, these events are where bold entrepreneurs come to connect, collaborate and expand together. It's not your average networking room, it's a vibe. Think powerful conversations, aligned partnerships and the kind of support that doesn't just cheer you on, it challenges you to level up. Spots go fast, so head to the show notes or to audaciousfounders.com/events. To grab yours. Come meet the people who make bold look effortless and bring your vision with you. Welcome back to the Audacious Founder podcast. Being bold in business, I'm Melissa Manning, your host and today I have part two of my conversation with Ana Hulia. She is an author and a global wanderer who has a big story to tell. So if you thought part one dropped gems, get ready. This next round goes even deeper. We're picking up where we left off, diving into the real, the raw and the radically audacious. So grab your notebook or your cappuccino and let's get back into it with Ana Hulia. So when I was little, I wanted to be an author. I thought I was going to be a right horror stories, like Stephen King. I was obsessed with Stephen King and I thought I was going to write books like him. And then I just kind of like, well actually I showed one of the ghost stories that I was writing to somebody who was an important person in my life and they basically kind of insulted it. So I stopped writing. I gave up on that idea. And so but in the back of my head, I always felt like I had a book in me at least one. Now I feel like or I hope that I have more than one. But so I started just a couple weeks ago. I started writing and it was like during the holidays. So I had some time off. And so it was like a focus to just like every morning, just like, like get stuff out. And it is so therapeutic, like after writing all of this down. And it was different than writing it in a journal. It was a different feeling for some reason. Because you're going through, because if you're like telling this to somebody else, you're analyzing it more than if you're just like writing it in a journal. You're looking for the lessons. You're looking for the patterns. You're maybe seeing things in yourself that you've never really allowed yourself to see before and be vulnerable in a way that you maybe have never been before. And so to say that it is literally getting stuff out of you and like like the trauma, if the body really does hold on to this trauma and this tension, it really felt like a weight. I haven't even like I did reach out to somebody maybe to help me with getting it organized so that I could maybe eventually publish it. Not even that part, like just the part of getting it out and written down. And maybe I did send it to like two people to read a little bit. And even just doing that, like having a witness, right? Or feeling that you're vulnerable, that's, or maybe they will, that you're not going to get the feedback that you're expecting. So that's like, yeah. Yeah. But if you're not going to open yourself and tell the truth or be so it's like you are faking it. Right. People can feel that when they read it. They can feel is this authentic or is this just trying to be uncomfortable for example? They they they're yeah. Yeah. And that's also the hard part too because it's like as the person writing it, you don't know. Like you honestly don't know because there's so many layers of vulnerability. There's so many layers of self-awareness that it's like you can write something and you can think that that's the most self-aware thing in the world. Meanwhile, your ego is completely like putting a thick layer over that, preventing you from seeing the deeper lesson or whatever it is. There was an editor of a famous editorial in Mexico and he said, "If you're not going to get naked in front of people like, you know, well writing don't do it. Like please don't do it. I mean don't don't bother to the and it's like okay, this is it." Yes. And that is that's what people respond to because it's the naked parts of them that they are scared to share that you writing your story gives them permission to acknowledge. It's really powerful. Really, really powerful. But then there's also this line between like being vulnerable and then like like being like a victim which I had to like I was concerned about. Like I don't know it's it's very interesting like the positioning of and how you word things and how you say things. I don't know. It's it's a whole. You will find yourself you will find the right equilibrium for them. It's it's a journey. It is. There is no right and wrong. So you just have to write and you are not asking for advice but they throw this like yeah. I well I agree. I think just just get it out and then how you how you polish it and how you are going to fix that so you can polish. Yeah. I'm sure that you have plenty of stories to tell. Any everyone has any interesting story to tell. And if you don't you you you read a lot. So that also helps to with the imagination and the vocabulary and so you can also see some styles that you like and you can okay I can model this or it can be you know the way you can follow an example. So copying is just like a what's at that point the copying part too. It's like I've been reading Romanticie books lately. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. Okay. Okay. And a lot of them are pretty much exactly the same same storyline same kind of characters and they sell books. You know what I mean? So it's like one of the things too for me I think is like I'm so scared to just regurgitate things that I've heard or that I've read. I'm so scared to just copy and I almost feel like I don't have any original thoughts anymore or ever maybe I feel challenged to have an original thought. And so kind of to the opposite side of that it's like by you being vulnerable, by you putting your even if it's just a touch of a perspective on something that is an original thought that makes you a thought leader. And like I said about there's so many books that are almost like copies of each other. But because they're written in with this person's perspective or this touch, it's fine. Like get it out. Yeah. So kind of like to the point of like don't let that stop you from writing your story. If you feel like it's just a cliche story that's been written a hundred times. Like don't let. Now I have to mute the sabotage also. You will have plenty of sabotage. Who's gonna read these? Who's gonna like it? They're gonna criticize me. They're gonna it's like okay, we'll see later. Oh you just knew the time. We'll see later. We'll see later. We'll see about that tomorrow. And then tomorrow. And then tomorrow. Exactly until you publish and then okay, let people uh, judge it or if you if you the feedback. Now you publish a book. You're bad ass. You're having book signings. Guys, this book I have not read it because it is in Spanish and I I'm probably gonna get impatient at some point and try to read it and I'm not gonna get most of it. I'm gonna have to be chat GPTing or if it comes on audio, then I can have chat GPT translate it for me or if it's not audio, but like an ebook, I can have it trans anyway. It's in Spanish. I haven't read it yet, but I really want to and I don't find it in digital. If you can do the translation in digital, I don't know what you mean, but yeah, wait, it is in digital. Yeah, yeah, yeah, we can find any in amazon. Okay, so I'm gonna do that then and I'm gonna have I'm gonna download it. Upload to chat GPT. Well, it's probably good. Like you said earlier, it's probably gonna be all messed up because chat's not gonna get some of the context or like the you know, the slaying or whatever. So we'll see. If you wait a little bit, we maybe next year we do it in English. Guys, if you don't speak Spanish, tell all your Spanish-speaking friends to get this book because the more of this book she sells in Spanish, the sooner she will print it in English. Correct. Exactly. So please buy it, share it. So you did this. Now how do we go from publishing a book to now climbing Kilimanjaro? I need some excitement in my life. Venture? Because moving to an entirely different culture and country is not exciting. Okay. Well, this is an idea that I had a couple of years ago. I wanted to go there with a friend and I lost too expensive for not a good time and we let it go. Yeah. So I know that there's a bunch of different mountains that people climb. In terms of like difficulty, where does Kilimanjaro fall? If that question makes sense. Not an expert, but you don't need any. Do you just need a lot of mental strength? Okay. Well, physical of course. But it's not technical. You just walk. You don't need any court or helmet or special tools. You're climbing tools on your gear and that's it. So I would say that it's not a technical mountain, but anyone can go in good health condition. Doctor, doctor, I don't. Don't play it on me. We are not liable if you try to climb a mountain and get hurt or don't come back. We are not liable for that. This is a disclaimer. So yeah, it's been like almost, I don't know, maybe six months. I have been planning this trip. Actually, there was a lady that I met here and she said, "Oh, I want to climb this mountain and it's a group of people. If you're interested, I put you in the group and I'm like, "Yeah, okay." So I got in this group and then the discussion started. She was in contact with the guide in Tanzania and while we were talking, "Okay, this is what are we going to do? This is the cost." Etc. Then next month, I don't know, we'll talk about what do we need as the gear and he will send some stuff. And then there was a time like guys, you need to book your tickets. And then how long was this process of preparing before you actually went? I was in this group six months ago, but it was the three last months that I was more active. Like, "Okay, I need to get a ticket." So that was the first step. And then, "Okay, slowly, slowly, start to get the gear, the jacket, the boot, the, on the clothes that were required." How much did you spend on all the, well, I guess it won't be in dollars. Yeah, yeah, we're in dollars. Oh. Well, I, they're different, but I think- Does your husband know how much you spent? Will, will this get you in trouble if you say? No, no, it's fine, it's fine. The package for the climbing, it's only 2000. Okay. And then you have to pay the ticket, which is another 1000 and you spend, you have to pay it, it's a package that you pay for a guy, you do it with a boot. And then you pay your ticket, a one day of accommodation, accommodation before a combination. I'm probably not gonna edit some of this out. Because it's cute. I like it. And you do some tipping also for the people who go, who go with you. It's like the cost of a normal vacation, maybe. Kind of, yeah. Like, yeah. 25 to 5,000 bucks. Exactly. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Well, now I was just thinking, okay, so I found a list of the summits, the seven summits. Okay. So you've got- and actually, I don't know if this is an order of difficulty. I think it is. Yeah, it's in, it's like in terms of feet or meters. Okay. The highest one. So Mount Everest. And then- - That's the toughest one, 'cause it's the highest one. And then mount a con. - Accommodal? - Accommodal. - Yeah, in South America. - And then Denali, in North America. - Okay. - And then Kilimanjaro. So Kilimanjaro is right in the middle. There's three more below it. So I'm just thinking, you bought all the equipment, spent thousands of bucks on equipment and the experience. Now we got to take it up a notch. - Wait, it's about Denali? - No, yeah. - I'm cooking, what about Denali, in North America? - I need to get a visa first. (laughing) We'll get there, we'll get there, don't worry. - Let me go where it is. Maybe it's in Canada. Where's Denali? It's in Alaska, dammit. - Oh, oh, the cold. Oh, okay. - Yeah, Kilimanjaro. - It's about 6,000 meters above level water. I don't know in the heat, how much would that be? - I will tell you, 'cause it shows me right here. It's about 20,000 feet. - Okay, all right. And yeah, the complication is the altitude. So you have several packages and you can take several days. - When you say the complication is the altitude, why is it because of the breathing or what? - You don't know how your body will react to it. So it's not like you are altitude sick or you are born or you are diagnosed. So that's the thing that you keep in your mind that you are like, "Am I gonna make this? "Am I gonna be sick? "Am I gonna be able to wait or not?" That was mainly the, every day we will gain some altitude. We will sleep in a camp or we will gain some more altitude and then sleep lower. So you know, that was a strategy. And then slowly slowly we were able to do it. We were taking some medicine. - Oh, wait a second. So, okay, hold on. - Exactly. - Yeah. - Oh, 'cause you're like, "Okay, do you like testing your body "at this altitude?" And then you're like, "Oh, okay, let me relax a little bit." And then when you go back up, your body's like, "Oh, I'm a little bit used to." - I've been here. - Yeah. - Exactly. - Yeah, yeah. - You just stay. - I have to say that we didn't feel much. Well, some more like a headache sometimes. - Which could also be from the wind and cold. - Exactly. But you have this idea in your mind. Is this it? Is it, I'm gonna get to see it. - I'm gonna get to see it. - So, yeah. So that's why I thought and we were all there like, "Okay, we're gonna take this trip "and we're gonna get to the top." And that's it. That was the main idea. - I can't do that. I get altitude sickness in Colorado. - Oh. - Oh. (laughing) - I don't know, but it's not nearly, let me see, let me see. I literally like couldn't breathe in Colorado. - What you have to keep on that. - It's very hot. - When it comes to breathing, I am a worse. So we're talking about 20,000 feet. Colorado is 6,000 feet. (laughing) - Okay, we need to do some training for you. - Yeah. - But look, the trip is like every day, you take some altitude. So it's not like you go to Colorado right away. You take some altitude and then you continue. And then it's a journey, okay? And that was the guy was telling us like, it's not just getting to the peak, it's to enjoy every day, every step that you do. (upbeat music) - Hey guys, here's what most people do when they want to build wealth. They download another freebie, they try to piece together random advice from TikTok and YouTube and end up stuck, overwhelmed, inconsistent, and spinning their wheels. But that is not how you create true freedom. If you're ready for something smarter, deeper, and actually aligned with your life, book an audacious wealth breakthrough call with me. This is not cookie cutter coaching. This is where we look at your gifts, your vision, and your numbers. And we build a bold, personalized blueprint to help you turn your income into impact, your time into freedom, and your ideas into legacy. You've done the DIY hustle. Now it's time for strategy that fits like it was made for you because it was. Spots are limited, so head to the show notes and claim yours now. (upbeat music) But how do you enjoy that? For your experience, from your experience, when you were on the mountain, what exactly are you enjoying? I can understand the views, right? It's probably beautiful. What do you enjoy about it? I think it's the present that you enjoy. The Tanzanian people, they had the different base that are just leaving the moment. And we were all excited, "Okay, we wanna get it, where are we gonna get it?" "How are we gonna get it?" And it's like, "No." It's a day by day. Because also you could not know when you're gonna get there because there are so many things that would-- Or if you're gonna get there. But you're gonna get all that. So they were like, it's a totally different base. Like, it's calm. You are disconnected because we don't have any internet. So that itself, you know, like, okay, we're just here. We have to walk, we have to see, we have to feel. And we have to talk to the other people that were with us in the group. So they were teaching us every day, like, okay, enjoy the moment. This is what we're gonna do. This is what we're gonna have. And we want to talk with more, or like how many steps, or how many hours? And they were like, "Well, we can walk between one and five hours." And you're like, "Oh, I mean, like, you know, how come?" And it's true. I would be the worst in this group. I would be like, "How many more hours are we in?" "Can we stop, please?" "I'm a headache." "I would be the worst." Now, really, they were like psychologies, all of the guides. We had three-- It's a whole group that came with us. We were 27 people in total. - Whoa. - People coming up and then the whole team behind us. - Because a lot of you need a lot of people to carry the gear, right? - Carry the gear, carry the tent, the kitchen, the-- - Whoa, you had to set up, like everybody had to set up the camp every time. It wasn't the-- Because so many people, this is a thing that so many people do, you would think that there would be camps already set up. - No. We slip in seven different camps, and every day they will set up the camp. - Then, next day they will take it off and go to the next one. - Yeah. - They will do half of the time that we will do. I mean, we will go up in five hours, they will do two. And then we will get there and football's ready, and I mean, they were there to help us get to the point. But I wanted to tell you, it's like, we were also singing songs in their language. Like, we can do this very positive. And we had a theme, it was like, one team, one dream. - Uh-huh. - No, all the way to the top, nonstop. So we will repeat this every day, I don't know, at least. - But in-- - In what language? - In English, this in English. But also we were, they have this sport from the Lion King, Hakuna Matata, which is no phrase. So they were like, Hakuna Matata. Hakuna Matata. - Like, (laughs) - Take care. So this, I think this was the best gift that we had. Like, we just had the present to leave, and that's it. Tomorrow we don't know. We didn't know anything about what was gonna go be tomorrow, only at night. Okay, we go to a camp, so tomorrow we're gonna walk around these, many kilometers, and that's it. - Yuck. - Okay, all right. (laughs) - My, I have a friend, she loves hiking, and I don't mind like a short hike. Yeah, let's go to the woods and let's hike a little bit. Cool, no problem. And Abella loves hiking. In Florida, you don't do too much of that, but so my friend is like, yeah, we're gonna go on like an eight day hike in, I don't know, like I don't remember where she was, so maybe Italy or something, Dalamites, I don't know where it was. I think actually I think it was like a cross a couple. - It's a beautiful one. - I've heard, and maybe that will be what I do, because I don't think that's as intense as what you're doing here on Kilimanjaro. But my God, that is eight days of just like walking, then, how was the food on Kilimanjaro? See, that's what I'm concerned with. What did you eat? - It was great. We had again, it was in charge of the food because they were carrying everything, and then they were here on a third day in one camp that they had access, so people were coming up with more food. So yeah, now we were eating meat and a lot of carbs, a lot of carbs. We had pizza, we had-- - Okay. - We had everyday like hot stuff, because the higher we were getting the colder, it was getting also. So no, no, we were over eating to have energy for all the works. So we had breakfast, then in the middle like snacks, lunch, coffee. - What about coffee? - We had coffee, some-- - It was not great. - Not a chino, but yeah, but we had some coffee, yeah. - Okay. - All right, I like the overeating part of it. - I like the carbs part of it. (laughing) - Oh, what I was thinking earlier too is like, I was thinking too that an aspect of that that might be really meaningful and enjoyable is the team work aspect of it, because we're just also isolated, not everyone, but like a lot of us, I mean, at least for me, like my, I don't have family close by, aside from your family. And like, I work from home every day. Sometimes I see people on Zoom, but obviously that's not the same as like being in person with people. And sometimes I can go days without like actually seeing a human in real life. And so I think like having a common mission, right? And having these people that are supporting you when you're sitting there and you're like, "Oh, I have alters in it, it's like this, I can't go on." And you have these people that are pushing you up. No, keep going, come on, you know, we can all do it. - I think we would be able to do it without them. Definitely, without the guides, the Tanzanian people, they were amazing. And to see them, you know, they were carrying, they were allowed to carry 15 kilo, that was the maximum. And we were doing the same, taking the same way that we were taking. So I was like, if they can do it, I can do it. And they were passing you, smiling. (laughs) We're like, come on, I knew with the, and wait, wait, how old were they? Were they like old? No, like all ages, like you have-- - Oh, I said ancient. - No, no, no. - You had adolescent kids, then you have like, I don't know, 30 to 40, then you had older, a little bit also. - Were you like, I do CrossFit, I can do this. - No. - No. - Like I said, you get there and you, well, maybe, yeah, I go there, it's easy, I've been training, you know, since, but it's all here. - Yeah. - All here, like all your fears come out, all the things, all your attachments, like you need internet, there was a lady who wanted to have internet, or like little things that you had, like-- - Ooh, yeah. - Today, what do you freak out? - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - Can you tell, you're probably friends with them, so like you don't wanna say anything bad, but. - No, but she was, she said it, she was freaking out the first day, because it was the first time that she got away from her family, on her children, so she was a little, moved by that. But then it's like, okay, this is it, if, you know-- - You're not turning back. - Well, you could, you could, if you want, whenever you feel you don't wanna continue, you can go back. - You know, but-- - Should anybody turn back? - Nobody from our group, no, no, no. We were all like determined, we wanted to together. And yeah, then by, when the days are passing, you forget about everything, and you feel so, like, you create a connection with all these people that you talk to, there's nothing, no distraction, like nothing, so we do just talk and laugh, and there was a lady from Brooklyn, or not, not from Brooklyn, from New York, until hilarious, and her husband from France, and then a friend of mine from Lebanon, and another French lady who was the organizer of the group, so you get to know each other, you sleep in the same place, you don't bath for seven days, you smell what you each other, you smell what you like. - Yeah, you are, you have some discomfort in your belly, so you listen to things, and then you have to, (laughs) to say I need the bathroom first, or, you know, like, it's, or if you wanna go to a bathroom in the middle of a hike, you will say, "Anybody wants to go to a bathroom?" Yeah, okay, so you can use the time to go to the bathroom, and then you chair things, like, "Oh, some gummies, or you need anything, and you start asking, "Are you feeling okay? How are you feeling?" - It seems the way you go. - Exactly, exactly. Yeah, definitely. We were all right of not being able to make it for different reasons, but being able to have a group spirit. - Good, one time I went skydiving, and I was like, "All right, I'm gonna have an epiphany about life "when I'm falling in the air." (laughs) I'm like, there's gonna be some kind of realization that I have that's gonna, like, change me forever. I didn't have that, I just thought I was gonna die, and I was angry that that was happening, and I never wanted to do it again. That was basically what I got from it. So when you were going through this, was there any kind of, like, realization that you had, or like, because again, there was no distraction, right? You're just walking, and if the person next to you stops talking, you got nothing to think about, except for whatever is coming up in your head. So was there anything, I don't know, anything that came up for you in those moments that you weren't expecting? Just try to, I had this phrase in my mind, or like, I tried to repeat some stuff, like, I'm gonna make it, I'm gonna do it, I'm here, I'm breathing, I breathe, so. You felt very heavy, because we had to walk a lot, but the higher you're getting, nothing compared to the other. So I won't even mention that weight. (laughs) So, yeah, definitely your mind starts wondering, you know, and you just have to, I didn't have any expectations, on how are we gonna get there, what are we gonna do, or, you know, it's just like, and so many lessons, like, I just had in mind, I wanna get there, and then I realized, well, but what's gonna happen in between if I just wanna get there? - Hmm, so, yeah, what do you think your biggest lesson was then? - To be present, I think that was one of the, yeah. - No, no, definitely, to leave every moment, and they had a phrase that was, "Pole-pole", it was like, slow, slow, slowly, slowly, and I felt like, this is maybe something I have to take from the mountain to my life, like, I have to go slowly, slowly in life, and it's not all the time rushing, and wanting to, and trusting others, that they were gonna be able to help me to get there. - Wow. - To lose control. - So, like, I told you, I had only one in my, I'm gonna get there, but then I was like, okay, I need to lose control, I need to, my watch stop working, okay, then I, (laughs) - You're much more working, so you couldn't even look at how long you've been walking. - Exactly, so you see, we got my beard on the second day of the hike, and it was supposed to be on the week later, so it was all like, okay, this is out of control, I am, (laughs) depending on how you take it, it will make your journey more difficult or more enjoyable. Yeah, so the last day, the day that you have to hike to the peak, it's the worst. You have to wait at night, you are tired, you don't sleep, you are so afraid that it's just. Do you sleep on the peak? No, you just go, you. I don't know, you see the whole thing and then you go, you go down again as fast as you can. Yeah, it's super cool. Super cold. Okay, okay. Woolf, but I'm super cool to get there. What was the view like? We had glaciers, icebergs. Okay. Yeah, I never thought you could see that outside of the sea or something. And you just see when you're going up, you see like the sky, like you are up the sky. I mean, clouds are down and you see the sun. It's so beautiful. It's very beautiful. Oh, and you, okay. Yeah, I saw some pictures of you. Were the pictures in front of this sign? Yeah, I was, yeah, we go there, we start at Oive Praying, men, women, the guides. I don't know, or everybody was crying. Everybody was crying. Oh, like we were so happy, so happy. We made it and it was an especially moment. It was very special. What you were saying earlier, Polly Polly? Polly Polly Polly. I just read this book called the ruthless elimination of hurry. All right. It's written by a rabbi, so if anybody doesn't want to hear him talk about Jesus, probably better to not read it, but I still, I'm not religious, but I got a lot out of it still. And it's just to that point of like trying it with everything you do, go slow, slow. It's incredible. Yeah, I was so ambied then by being so calm, yeah, or like, wow, I have, after coming down, I think we all were calm. Yeah, or at a point like, okay, yeah, this is cool. It feels good, not to be in a rush and not to be checking the phone or you know, like it, you know, it feels freeing. It feels expansive. But there is something, there's like this mental shift that has to happen because it's such a habit to rush all the time and to feel emberdined. I don't even know if that's a word burdened by like all of the responsibilities that you have to get done that are weighing on you. Like it's it literally has to be some sort of a shift in your mind where those things just don't stress you out anymore. But how do you do that? I don't know what the code is yet to like, the pollen. Yeah, it's I think it's just reminding yourself over and over and over until, Why are we rushing for? Yeah, or it's finding a way to get ourselves out of survival mode. That's a lot of like when I have been writing my book, that's a lot of what it's been about. It's like how we're stuck in survival mode when we don't need to be. We're just like, we've convinced ourselves that we have to be in survival mode. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. And so then that moment of, I wrote down moment of joy when you get up to the top and you start crying. It's like, how do we get more of those moments? Do we need these giant accomplishments in order to feel that kind of joy? Not this is really. I think it's worse, it's simpler. We maybe also put these ideas on our mind like, oh, if I climb there, I'm going to be happy. But this happiness lasted, you know, like the moment we were there and the picture and now the memories put that now, it's over. So I don't, I need to do another one to get into these or there is no need to do to do these. It's a good question that I don't have the answer for, how, how we get these. But I think maybe from daily life and like from doing things slower. Yeah. We will need to reach there eventually. So and that's the lesson in a lot of the things that you've done, right? That was the lesson from moving from Lebanon to Cote d'Ivoire, which was be present and appreciate what you have when you have it. And I think it sounds like that's a similar lesson that you got from climbing Kilimanjaro. Especially coming here, I didn't have any expectation to to meet any people from Venezuela. I think it's so far away or from Latin America. And then I'm like, okay, so I found so many people from my hometown and I'm like, what? I didn't expect that and I was not looking for that. And then suddenly it came. So what are they doing there? Working as an architect. As a, yeah, in oil companies. So yeah, so maybe another lesson is that you can, I mean, home is where you are, right? You can make a home wherever you are and you can find your people, whether it's Venezuelan or whether it's people that just enjoy climbing mountains or what, you know, just enjoy the things you like. I never thought that was going to be climbing this mountain. I thought about it a long time ago, but not like I'm going to do it next year with people that I don't know. No, it's like, yeah, just unexpected. Awesome. Okay, well, you're inspiring me to do something a little crazy not to climb a mountain. I don't think I'm going to do it. But maybe to do something somewhere around that same intensity level. I got to think about what that could be. That takes you out of your comfort zone also another cliché, but yeah, the thing. I know, and I'm starting to think that like a lot of these clichés are right. Not having your coffee with the phone. That's one. Okay. That's a cliché that we have to abide by. I agree. I always have foam in my coffee. Black coffee. Why would I torture myself like that? A lot of people live like that. That's a kiss. Okay, so we talked about your book. We talked about Kilimanjaro. How can people buy your book? You mentioned it on Amazon. What else can people kind of learn more about you or get in touch? Well, I have an Instagram and it's my name. I'm a host and I'm a Juliacchelante. I'm sorry, the book is in Spanish, but like I said eventually we'll translate it into English and hopefully French as well. Tell your Spanish speaking friends. Exactly. Yes. And if you are learning to speak Spanish, it's also and you see it's an easy book. It's not very complicated and it's short. So that will be that will be it. Yeah, it's in Amazon for the time being. Okay, Ana, thank you so much. This was so fun and also like us catching up and me learning about everything that is going on in your life, not everything, but some of the big things has been really enjoyable. So thank you for that. Thank you. I'm looking forward to read your book. Oh God. Okay. Maybe we can go to a concawa or any other mountain that to see. Listen, I admire what you do. At the bottom drinking some foamy coffee waiting for me. We'll have a sign. I might walk up a little bit and then walk back down and have snacks. Yeah. No, no, no, that's nice. That's nice. Also. Yeah. Thank you for having me, Melissa. It's been a great talk. Good. Good. Bye. Well, that's a wrap on today's episode of the Audacious Founder podcast being bold in business. If this sparked something in you, if it made you think bigger, dream louder or take one bold step forward, then don't let it stop here. 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