Harry v Wills | What The Butler Saw

Audible subscribers can listen to all episodes of British scandal, add free right now. Join Audible today by downloading the Audible app. From Audible, I'm Matt Ford. And I'm Alice Levine. And this is British scandal. So Alice, at the end of our Harry and Will's series, would you ever fancy marrying into the royal family? No, actually let me think about that. No, that was just completely nuts. I mean, family feuds are dramatic enough, but a family feud in the public eye. My god, documented, photographed, gossiped about, poured over on social media. I mean, it's honestly the stuff of nightmares. How did it make you feel about the royal brothers? We really went through all kinds of emotions in this series, didn't we? Which we always do with British scandal. But you sort of yo-yo between these extremes are feeling incredibly sorry for these young men who had to mourn their mother so publicly. And then obviously these instances of extreme privilege where you feel like, really, what are we talking about? And in real terms, oh, no, sorry, you've had your title taken away. There's real stuff going on in the world. So some of it felt like tabloid fodder, and other moments of it felt really relatable. And I'm sure a lot of people can empathize with the feeling of becoming a strange from family members. Yes, no one in body stiff up a little more than the royal family. I mean, even that unofficial motto, never complain, never explain, really sums up their complicated relationship with their own privilege. Harry has given us a bit of a glimpse into that. So it's made me desperate to see more of what goes on behind closed doors in the royal household. So for today's guest, I have literally the perfect person to take us there. I think I've got it. Is it the carpenter that made the doors of the royal households? It's a really clever answer. Thank you. But would it make a great episode? Maybe not. No. We have a man that was Butler to King Charles and Queen Camilla, valet to Prince William, and be on your best behavior because he's also an etiquette expert. We are speaking to Grant Harold after this. Alison Matt here from British Scandal, Matt's a news for you. British Scandal is going to Broadway. What? Sorry, not literally. I just mean we're taking it to the stage. Is this your festival, "Crossed Wires"? We're all the UK's biggest podcast who live shows across iconic venues in Sheffield between the second and fifth of July. That was a beautiful read. Matt and I cordially invite you to our British Scandal live show on Sunday, July the 5th. And if we're doing the story I think we are, it is potentially one of the most ridiculous scandals we've ever told. So grab a ticket at crossedwires.live at crosedwires.live. I'm Leon Nefak. What happens when only fans becomes more than just a side hustle? Only fantasy is an in-depth look at the world's newest profession and how the rules of human intimacy are being rewritten online. Listen wherever you get your podcasts or binge all episodes of Only Fantasy, add free, only unaudible. Grant, welcome to British Scandal. When did you first meet Prince Harry? Thank you for me. I went and met Prince Harry. So it was just after I started working for his father, the No King, in East of 2004. And it was probably a few months into that when I actually got to meet him for the first time. And what were your first impressions? So with Harry, I was in the kitchen of Hygrove, which is the King's country house. And I was talking to another chef. And suddenly somebody shaded "oi". And as a turn round, a water balloon was coming towards me. And I remember we can pass the balloon all so quick. And I just saw this chopstick and I thought, "Oh, that's, and as I thought Harry, it hit me." And I just floated on me. And then another one then came towards me and did the same. And then I realized he's got a whole load of these. And so I ran into the ladder. And I could hear him still like the other side of the door. And there was a window. And I remember I think I wonder if I can get through this. It was a tiny little window. I made a fly net on it to stop flies coming in. And I took the net off and I climbed out the window. And I was a bit like a champagne caught coming out of a bottle, you know, through the sea. It was so small. And I landed on the the earth or the grass, the other side. And I kind of stood up and brushed myself down and shouted back through into the kitchen. I tried to get me now, if you can. You know, I think I'm going to go along with this. And then just started laughing. And then I heard "oi" and I thought, "That sounds really close." And I looked up and what he had done, he ran from the kitchen to the upstairs rooms, leaned out the window and then started dropping the waterblunds from above. So now they were hitting me on my head and it's floating all over me. And then I had to kind of run away to stop him through more. So that was my first introduction. What a job interview. Oh, it was a great interview. He'll be great. If you go find a interview with him, just make sure you take an umbrella with you. That is wild. And did you think, I'm not sure I want to do this, or did you think this is going to be fun? Oh, no, opposite. I thought this is great. You know, because because I've grown up and known about the raw family and my in respect and obviously his grandmother and his father, I thought it was going to be really formal and it was nothing like that. So it was good to get that little insight into it that was going to be like, "And would you have been allowed to retaliate?" Oh God, I did. I didn't look good. Many times I would retaliate, "Oh, no, I, what was interesting, the practical jokes are very much part of how it works and you need those practical jokes." 'Cause it's such a, obviously, the role of what you do and the work they do is also very serious and very grown up. And so behind the closed doors, the fun side of it was great. I would never retaliate against the king who also did practical jokes on me. I'm the queen, but obviously with William and Harry, it was slightly different. But I used to kind of like try to scare them, like jump out from a behind a door or something. A lot of comedy used to go on. I obviously have to ask what practical jokes are now king, full-done. He played the best. They couldn't even compete with him. The most famous thing that he did to me was I was Castle Amé, which was the castle, way up the top of Scotland. And as a new butler, learning about these different homes, you kind of spend a day getting to know it and look around it. At the end of the night, about half-ten at night, the butler said, "Oh, the housekeepers and meters "doin' have a drum, so we're gonna go and have a drink." And the housekeeper offered me a drink and so we're having a drink and then they start telling ghost stories. And I believe in ghosts. I saw believe in ghosts. And I'm starting to get a bit worried 'cause I'm in a really old castle. My room's quite scary as it is. And there were telling ghost stories. And once she'd finished the stories, the clock started to chime in the man and she looked at her, "Oh, yes, it's time to go to bed." And at that point, everybody ran out of different doors and vanished. It was just me and the housekeeper. And I looked at her and I said, "Well, would you come with me?" And she said, "I'm not that kind of lady." And I said, "No, no, I don't mean like that." I said, "I said I'm actually a bit scared." And she said, "Oh, Grant, you know, you don't be so silly. "You've got to grow up." She said, "No one's gonna do anything to you." And she said, "When you go up to your own, "please remember that below your room "is Hydrohynous's bedroom." So don't go and start jumping around to some, 'cause you'll wake him up. So I said, "I'm gonna up this virus daycare "so I'm thinking, "I wonder if they'll scare me." And I thought, "This is crazy. "This is the raw house." So they wouldn't scare you. So as I got to my bedroom, I walked in, and the first thing I did, was dropped to the floor, but it was an every horror movie. It's under the bed. So I look under the bed, nothing under the bed. I go and check behind the curtain, nothing under the curtain. But in the corner, there's a door that led into a tarot from one of these Disney movies, and I went in there, and there's nothing, and I thought, "This is stupid." And when I turned round, behind my bedroom door was a six-foot mannequin of a basic footman in uniform from the Queen Mother's time. I screamed and screamed, and I couldn't physically close my jaw for screaming, and when I stopped screaming, all I could do was his laughter, echoing everywhere. Anyway, so then I decided to get the mannequin at the room, so I go to move, and my one fell over, and as I'm dragging him at the room, with one foot in the door, the other dragging him out, his buckle and dead, his trousers came down, and now it does look like I'm dragging a man out of my room. And the chef came out of her room at the other end, and she saw him, and she said, "Grant, what you doing?" And I said, "This is not what it looks like." And she said, "You're going to be here five minutes." I said, "No, no, no." I said, "This is not real." I said, "This is a dummy." And she said, "That's what they all say." And then she helped me get him out of the room. Anyway, I go back to bed, fall on one of the down to breakfast. I got there slightly late, so breakfast was already begun. The no-king sitting there, and he, and maybe he looked to me, and he says, "Oh, he was last night." And I said, "Very good, thank you, sir." "Gaid, good." So everything was okay. I said, "Yeah, very good, sir." Very good. Yes. Well, everything, nothing happened. Well, I said, "Well, actually, you might have heard me scream." And I said, "Why?" I said, "Because a mannequin was putting my room behind my bedroom door." "No, why? Why did they do that?" I said, "I don't know, sir." They just put a mannequin behind my door, and it's the one I think it lives down in the kitchen. He said, "Grant, I'm so sorry." He said, "You must think we're off." He said, "This is the most, you know, the raw household." "How can we do this to you?" I'm so sorry. I said, "Don't worry about it, it's fine." I said, "I'm really sorry if I walk you up." He said, "No, no, no." So he goes back to still in his tea or whatever, and I go to walk out. And then he goes, "Oh, Grant, I've got to tell you something." I said, "What, so I said, I did not. I planned it." And that's when I looked at him, and he just started chuckling and looked back, then he's tea, and I just thought through thinking, "Wow." Okay, this is what. This is the lab. I mean, the Mart House. This is the label I've come into. What was William like the first time you met him? So that was so different to Harry. First time I met William was in the staff room at High Group. actually, interestingly. And I remember the thing it struck me a bit when was how tall he was, if I can be completely frank, how handsome he is, and also his eyes. Not that I have a mid-pinsist down it, but he was a margin looking at Prince of Diner. And he was ever so polite, and he, you know, he can say, you know, how nice to see you kind of thing. And he peed his hand out, we shook hands. And that was it, really? But then I had a panic, because I thought I don't want to call him. Is it his right hand? Is it Prince William? Is it Sir? So I went to just after this, but I know later I got to his room, and he said, everything okay. And I said, I'm really sorry. I just want to get this right. I don't know how to address you. Is it your highness? Is it, you know, Sir? I went, oh no, no, I'm just William. So I said, I can call you William. He said, yeah, yeah, you just call me William. That's fine. You just call me William. And then I looked at him and I don't know why, but I looked at him and said, oh, that's fine. You can call me Grant. You know that moment you think, why did I say that? And he looked to me and just going to smile and I thought okay, I'm not going to leave your presence. I'm going to take myself back downstairs. Good to clarify. Just to clarify. And he was great fun though. He was great to be around as well. I'm trying to say the two boys, you can tell totally different characters. I'm wondering, everyone talks about the air and the spare, of course. Did that difference feel real to you? No, not at all. I mean, that's what's so interesting because when you were there, they were very much a family. You looked at the family and thought, well, that's, that's the future of the monarchy. Somewhere in that group, it's the future between those two. But you didn't see it any other way. Sony has the years have gone on. It's become more and more very clear that that's the future king and that's the brother. And what was the dynamic between them? Did you sense any rivalry? None. Absolutely none. I mean, if there was rivalry, it would be competitive fun rivalry. Geez, you know, don't get them playing a game of mine or play together because, you know, it would be so competitive. But nothing, if I'm being completely honest, you know, nothing that would have no shout and no fall and I know, not speaking to you. None of that. Not one sign of that at all. The two of them are very, very close. I'm wondering if you noticed a difference in how they approach relationships. You know, did it seem like William would meet somebody and think, could this person be the future queen and Harry obviously known for having a number of girlfriends? So, Catherine was on the scene literally the whole time I was there. So from when I started at your daughter, you were in debt now for maybe a year, maybe two years at that point. I think you knew even we about then that she was the perfect Queen material. We hardly didn't have that kind of pressure. He was with Chelsea Davies at the time when I was there and from memory, again, that was the only more or less maybe the only girlfriend I think he had when I was there. I think for you, you see, the day to date it took quite a long time and then sadly, obviously, that that did come to an end. But the definitely wasn't the same pressure. I think if he had moved on from heart, there wasn't the issue. And I think for William, I think his father, Angerama, they're very much supported decided because rather than William, can you imagine if he'd date some of two years and thought, no, that's not right. Go on to the next one, which is kind of of what his father was trying to do, trying to find the right one with William almost from such a young age. He knew. So I think maybe with the relationship between me and Catherine, I think everybody probably thought this could be really good. The lives are obviously as privileged as it's possible to be. But there are unique pressures that face them. Yeah. What do you think those pressures are and did you ever see that pressure get to them? I think one of the biggest pressures that I remember, only because it was widely discussed, was when very similar to William's mother, when the press obviously became more curious about them. And you see very similar to Prince of Dhani, you see the press, I said, I walk or I said, I'll home. And I think that was tricky for her because quite what people might think they don't get protection. They only get it. They're minute and an engagement. It's an immediate. I've seen it because I've been there when it's happened. It's extraordinary. They arrive at the house in their own car, no protection, nothing, everything kind of kicks off suddenly in the news, engagement and they leave the house with a security detail. It's that quick. When you see it happen, it's really cool. Was a rift between the brothers hard for you to believe having seen what you'd seen? Did they genuinely feel like best friends at one point? Yeah, 100%. The follow with William and Harry. I doubted it when it all broke a few years ago because I knew how close to the way and they were absolutely best friends. They did everything together. I was kind of sane to the media. I don't believe it. I find it really hard to believe thinking, well, this is just ridiculous. This is nonsense. And then as it continued and I thought, wow, this is actually this is actually happening. They have found right, and obviously it was true, which was really sad. I don't think we actually know what's caused it. I think this is what puzzles me. There's obviously some who caused it. And everyone's a human this or that. I don't understand you could go from being so close to somebody. You protect them and you you've got the bar. Can everything to suddenly be you can't even be in the same room. The comments come out from them, you know, from Harry. It's so hard to understand what would have caused that. So something big's caused that. I don't know if it is just what everyone's thinking. I don't know if there's more to it. Have you read Harry's book? No, I listen to some of the audio and I don't want to say I don't believe what he's saying because has you know what the Queen one said? And I love it. Reflections may differ. So in my book came out, it was funny because a lot of people commented saying that my studios of Harry and William and Queen Kimmel and King Charles were very different to Harry's stories. I mean, I wasn't there for all of it, but I was there for part of it. And that was the biggest thing it came about was people were saying to me, you're memories of this wonderfully happy family, a suit different what he said. I was there the night before the wedding. I was on duty. But I remember all that so well. And so what Harry was saying, maybe he had a different feeling and insight and maybe he just didn't voice that. That's completely possible. But I just know that what he was kind of putting across what I put across are very, very, very different memories. I'm Leon Nefak. Best known as the co-creator of Slow Burn and Fiasco. I had of course heard of Only Fans. But always with a distant and quiet skepticism, a silent judgment you might say. Who is actually using this platform? Um, I am. Hi, I'm Only Fans creator and comedian Gracie Canon. I work from home. Now I'm on Only Fans. And in case you guys don't know, Only Fans is, ask your husband. My journalistic curiosity got the best of me when I found out that my own sister had started Only Fans account. I'm not a sister. Just a clarify. It turns out a lot of what I thought I knew about Only Fans was wrong. I felt like I wasted 3.5 years for something that wasn't real. What happens when connection comes with a price tag? Listen to Only Fantasy wherever you get your podcasts or binge all episodes of Only Fantasy ad free right now only on Audible. Start your Audible subscription in the Audible app or on Apple podcasts. Graham, we can't talk about Harry without talking about Megan. Do you remember the first time you heard that she was on the scene? Do you remember what you were told? So the first time I heard about Megan, I didn't know who Megan was. And I was asked to do an interview for a well-known paper and it was an interview on how to date royals. So I was given the advice on what you shouldn't do. I mean, I'm in the interview. They said, "Do you know Harry has actually dated?" And I said, "No, I didn't know that." And they said the name of the girl and I didn't know she was. And I was like, "I'm happy for him." And the next day in the National Press, all over the press, it said that the King's former Butler has confirmed that Harry's in a relationship with Megan Marko. And I'm thinking, "What?" And when I say front page, I mean front page of the sun, front page of the New Year's world, front page of everything, everything. I was getting calls the night before from the team that managed me saying, "We have a problem because tomorrow you're going to be front page news." And I even said, "I don't know who Megan is. I don't know who she is. I have an idea who she is." And suddenly I was in this extraordinary position where suddenly I was literally front page news confirming the relationship. But I didn't confirm the relationship. I didn't even know how the relationship. And it caused a bit of a problem because obviously, you know, the palace were kind of thinking why you confirm these are relationships. When he's not in a relationship, I said, "I haven't." Because obviously, Harry, when Megan went to Harpy about it and thankfully, they believe me and it can have moved on. So you were aware of her. Did you think she was a good match for him? Yes, oh absolutely. I didn't, if I'm completely honest, because of her background, also, you know, she very openly talks about, you know, a black lady. And I thought this is great for the raw family because I know what for the raw family, they don't discriminate. And I thought this is great because it's a very modern raw family. And the fact that Queen's obviously happy about it and they're all, you know, did I think they would marry? I didn't, that better I wasn't sure of it because I didn't, you know, with Harry being in a relationship for so long and then moving on to the next one, you don't really know, you know, you don't know if this is the one. But obviously, his time went on and it became clearer and clearer. And when the engagement was announced, do you remember, everybody was so excited about it? And can I also say, has anyone here been to the the day when getting invited to the wedding? Did you know? I went, yeah, I got invited. It's really another member of the household, I went. And it was a wonderful wedding. St. George's was full. So what the arrange was that you, which was even better because I've been to Royal Wedding's in there before. But what was better would we start on the lawn? on the grass next to the chapel, you would have seen it. And we were all there and we had petnicks at the end of the long, long, long, long, long ceremony. I remember the royal family came out the door opposite of it. Believe it's called the Galileo door, I think. And the Queen led the way with Prince Philip and other members of the family. And we were basically standing just a crush on this. We could hear what was all being said. And Prince Philip turned around to the Queen and he said to bang if that's over and she just looked him and smiled and looked away. Now I don't think, very clear, I don't think we're talking about the actual wedding. I think we're just the length of the ceremony. We're such a long ceremony. But it was a wonderful, wonderful one of occasion. I remember the coach couldn't pass and great pictures of the two of them. A fairy tale wedding or so we thought. Did you ever worry for Megaton about entering the royal family? 100%. The thing about the royal family, whether you work for them or any into them, your life changes. I was called into an office in London. They said to me that for now on, even when you've left, your life's never quite the same. Now how true that is for me. I mean, wow, I mean, I'm so lucky that I've left and I get to do what I'm doing. And very much that is what people are most interested in is my time there. And they did want me. They tell you that's why they say, you know, that the hope that you use it for the right things. But this is very much going to be a life changer. Now that's from a but this point of view of a staff member. So as a family member when you marry into it, it's going to change your life, whether you're like, or not, whether you stay married or not, it will upset you change your life. I think what I learnt very quickly, even working for them, you've got to adapt your life to their life. So you're given these schedules and you've got to follow the schedule. Because if you don't follow the schedule, then how can they follow their schedule and then it all becomes a mess. So it's quite regimented. It's quite disciplined. And that's why a lot of army personnel work through our household. Now marrying into the family, it's the same. Every day they're given the same schedule as the same attendees, things are booked six months in advance. See you married a prince tomorrow and you go into the parlour and you think, "Oh next Tuesday I'm going to get my girlfriends over for lunch. We'll have a lovely lunch in one of the beautiful state rooms. That's not going to happen." But you can invite her male friends as well. Even worse. I want, if you're marrying a prince, someone will pop around for lunch. Well, that's what we're doing. At least record up. Can I at least record a podcast in one of the ballrooms? Yes, that's why I don't think you're going to marry a prince. Right. Okay. Is that the only reason? Well, I don't think we need to go into this. Well, do you know the side that is, of course it'd be great to see you can't go and endure that. But the reason you can't is because the diary is basically day to day, hour to hour, minute to minute is planned out. And it's months and months. And I think that's why I felt, fibres, I thought, if she goes into that environment thinking she can go in and it's a bit like the princess, Diadies, DIC, or something like that. If you think you can go in and let her come in. I love that. So die. So die. If you can go anything, you can follow that kind of lifestyle as lowly as it is. It's not realistic. That's where it goes wrong. That's what I think. You kind of march to the beat of the Royal Family's drum, not the other way around. You can imagine it's not the Royal Family. It's really not. It's the whole, as it's been called, the firm at the institution. It's been like it for centuries, you know, and it's, and even that's involved and it's changed. Everything's kind of done in a certain way. So when you initially observe, Tariya, will you, it seemed harmonious. We now know that fork in the road appears and they've gone their separate ways. When did you first realize that things were turning sour between them? Not when I was there. When I discovered it was through something in the household. I was a really good friend and I was speaking to them and saying all this nonsense. And I remember them and said, "Mate not be nonsense." And that's when I thought, "Oh." And they didn't want to be a conference by telling me one way or the other. But the way they said it, I thought, "Okay." Then Hari obviously decided to talk about it and everything and then it became clear and clear. Even close siblings squabble and quarrel. I mean, particularly close siblings, I would say. Did you ever see those kind of angry streaks or any streaks of jealousy? Not one. That's what I mean. If I had seen, let's just be honest, if I'd seen a follow or say I'd seen some jealousy or some, then I would have believed that. They were very harmonious. They just did such a good deal with each other. And Hari, I felt, when was the bigger brother? And you know, Hari, you could see that. It was a dynamic between the two of them. The woman's probably maybe a little bit more serious, possibly. But I was saying that Hari used to be on the front side of him. You've seen them at that ear base with a doing an interview. And Hari starts messing around and why he's trying to be serious and then why he then starts messing around. So Hari was very good at blending out the fun set of William, definitely. And William was quite good at kind of keeping Hari in lane a lot of that. You know, sometimes probably remaining him to remember he's a royal or whatever. You know, I think he was quite good at that. At the time, there was a lot of talk and excitement about the fall, about Hari and Wills and Kate and Megan. Do you remember at the time talking to your former colleagues or your friends from your time with the family? And what the kind of energy was around the four of them? At the very beginning, it was genuinely all good. But I also think at the feeling, you know, I remember there was an event that they did the former there and I was kind of informed that maybe they went quite as close as we was. But again, I didn't believe this because I was still thinking, no, look at them, they're all getting on. They're constantly getting on. But I think there was definitely a little bit of. Grant, you're such an optimist. I know, I am. I think that's the problem. I always see the good and everything. I suppose with the four of them, what you realised quite quickly as somebody just, you know, a layperson just viewing it, was that William and Catherine just had a very different attitude in a way to Harry and Megan. It always felt like there was the first couple and the second couple. Yeah. Megan, I think it's quite similar to Harry. A bit more playful, a bit more. Not do what you want, but there's not the same. Do I say not commitment because he is committed, but maybe he just knew that his brother and Catherine Rowe is going to be slightly different today as I can say that. I'll give you an example. I remember one year on the balcony, the way they were standing, there's a high racket, there's a position as you stand on the balcony. They're instructed before they walk out to where we're standing. And I noticed that Megan and Harry, I think, got it slightly wrong and they moved back. And you might remember this because Harry is then speaking to. And the cameras picked us up. I think you've been explained to about how it works. And you can see she looked a little bit. her play, because I think she was a bit like what? A bit confused at it. And I think that again, this is part of the learning process, is it realised that. I think you were trying to say that my brother and sister and they go there and we're behind. And maybe she's thinking about her own innocent side, she probably think, well, why we're not all-time beside each other? Overall, it's supposed to be the same. And I think that may have been quite tricky. And do you think, obviously, the dynamic is informed by the context that the first born becomes the king? Yeah. But they've also got different personalities that. thinking of Harry's personality and what he was personality. Harry would have been born first. Would he still have been more the fun-loving guy? Yes. Or would he still have to be a bit straight, because he was going to be the king? Gumbay, my time around him and know what he's like. I think he started the fun-loving. I think they may have told him to read an ennolittle bit. The reason I say that is William and Catherine. We've seen them do some fun things together. Like there was a photo shoot. I don't know if Catherine poked William or pinched him or saw. Did something. And they all started giggling. And I remember, you know, some friends saying, "Oh my gosh, that's not very royal." You know what, it's not. And I'm thinking, "No, no, no, this is good. This is a modern way." I think it would have been Harry. It would be even worse, you know, maybe even more so. I think they do try to rein them in a little bit. But I don't know. I don't know if it would have been hugely different, because I think William has been allowed to. I think he has been allowed to have a bit of fun with it. And I think Harry would have had to probably rein it in a little bit. But I still think we'd get to see that fun side of him. Do you think that mischievous irreverence of Harry didn't sit well with the kind of regimented control of the firm? Possibly. He's not shy of the work for him. He really isn't mean, you know, even since he's left. Even now, he's still doing visits. The non-royal visits, it's their choice to do it. But they've got every essence of the royal visit, but without royal, basically. So Grant, talk us through what a royal butler does day-to-day. Is it like Downs and Abbey or is it less glamorous? I love you said that. Everybody says to me, "Is it like Dout and Abbey?" And I think Carson would probably turn in these grave from people liking me to him, because their role is so different. My experience was, in especially in the royal, so you're respected as a professional. I remember one butler once saying quite simply, "A butler does everything for the principal. Every single thing you can imagine, apart from sleep with him." And that was so true, because you basically like the housewife or the house husband. You're there to kind of look after them. And the days could be, they could be short. And some days I could go in at nine to five, if there was nobody there, and do a bit of housekeeping and a bit of cleaning. And then those other days, well, I'd go up at six in the morning. And at seventh day, I'd be taking a call and train with biscuits and tea to wake you up. And then between eight and ten, I'd be seven year breakfast. Between 11 and 12, I'd be doing 11 z's, which is your tea coffee and biscuits. Between 12, 13, 1, I'd do your pre-lunch drinks. Between 1 and 2, 13, I'd do your lunch between two and three. You'd have a cup of coffee between four and six, you'd be half an in tea. Between six, eight and seven, you'd be pre-evening drinks. Between seven, 13, eight, you'd be evening drinks. Between eight and ten, 13, you'd have your dinner. You could have supple between nine and midnight, then I'll give you a glass of share, a glass of pork, a glass of brandy, and then you go to bed, wake up in the morning and join weight watches. So that's a typical, that can be a tip of the day. - I've got a hot bun. - Just hearing about it. - You have more than a hot bun at the end of it. But that's a really full on day, that's really full on. And in between that, you're still having to do it all the other bits you've got to do, including IT, I mean your smart TVs and your computer. - Yeah, I can't imagine the King setting up a new iOS on an iPhone. Obviously all bosses, no matter the role, have preferences. I'm wondering what was something the King insisted on, you know, six minute egg copy of the Daily Mail in the morning. - He always insists in organic vegetables. Fresh food, fresh vegetables, locally sourced. These are his things. He's also stickler for etiquette, protocol and tradition. Who would do it dinner one night and being the gentleman he is, he wanted to be saved last. I remember I'd put the plate staying and the other butt there had brought in there I think it was a souffle or something. And I was nagging around the table with the souffle to doing it in a set and order, just how he likes it done. And I saved him last. And as I got to him, he got his spoon and fork and got a big dollop. I think it was cheese souffle, big dollop. And he does this, he was like, (grunting) Look at that, as he drops it on the plate. There was a problem. I hadn't given him a plate. So he'd gone, not into the table, there was a charge, he don't have a charge, it's the kind of underplay. Goes under your plate, so it protects the table. And it was a silver one and I'd landed in the silver charger. And I was horror, I thought, oh, I'm gonna, I thought, oh, this is, 'cause he'd never ever told me off and I'm thinking, oh, I'm gonna get told that this is gonna be some, this is awful. And he looked at me and I'm just like, I said, I'm so sorry, I'm sorry, I'm really sorry. He went, no, no, no, listen to this. He said, I'm a royal. As he, yes, he said, that's silver. As yes, I said, it's fine. Royals can eat off silver. And then that was it, that was done. And that was the only, if you talk about getting told off, that was the only time that I ever got the closest, but it wasn't even telling off, it was eating it into a bit of fun. - Man of the people. - So he didn't tell you off, but did any of the other royals ever tell you off? - Not tell me off, but I had a very awkward conversation with Princess Anne. No, me what would happen is Buckingham Palace would phone through and they would say, we have Princess Anne for her, her, her, her, her, her, her. And then I would then say, okay, put the call through, I then in Princess Anne and then I'd transfer the call through to him. So very straightforward. However, this one day I wasn't in the pantry, I was in the, the staff room in the phone rings and I picked it up and of course, the voice says, Princess Anne, I said, yes, very good. Princess Anne, yes, that's fine. Princess Anne, I can deal with her, put her through to me. This is Princess Anne. And then I said, I was so stuck, I said, oh, I'm very sorry, sir. And she was like, I had to go like that and I picked the phone down. I was so like embarrassed. I've been phone started drinking it and everyone's saying, pick the phone up, pick the phone up. But don't say so, don't say it and I picked it up. And she was like, Princess Anne, I said, one moment you're right, and I put her straight through to me. That was the, not a tale and off, but that was the closest I made to me at about a full per. - But there's never a comeback. No one ever says, now Princess Anne's had a word about what happened. - Never, never. I've never, ever, no. I'm not just saying that. I mean, maybe it was my age, 'cause I was quite young. I was 25 when I went for the interviews, 26. Maybe it's my nature because I'm, I think quite easy going kind of character, but he was, he never, ever, I was never told off. Not with the family. - I'm trying to picture what a relaxed night in looks like for a royal. Do they watch, you know, housewives of New York, you know, is there a delivery? - No, God no. No, a relaxed night for them. It's very rare because if the schedule means I normally want to about 11 o'clock at night, and that includes supper or dinner. And a dinner for them is a dinner at Clarence House where they're all suited and booted. So it was very rare that it would be just them having a dinner on their own, very rare, 'cause it was all, they're always doing stuff. That's why sometimes, you know what people say is the monarchy of value for money and every year, obviously we talk about it. And I was gonna say, well, yes, because from my point of view, if you sit down, somebody, you're gonna walk for the next seven days, you're gonna start at nine o'clock and you're going to walk through until half 11, 12 o'clock, one o'clock in the morning, and it's gonna be like every day. And by the way, this is what you're all doing during the day as well. I don't think many people would say yes. I really don't. - What does that mean for William and Catherine with a young family? - Well, this is where it's different, okay? Because William has recently said, "In the last few months, the future of the monarchy will be royal with a small r." And I think what he's referring to is very obstetric with the lake. The lake room was all about the crown, then family. I feel and think, and I could be wrong. I think William and Catherine is about family and health and then the crown. So I'm not saying that he's gonna drop out in duties or change anything. I think his priorities quite rightly is his family. With what's all happened, I don't think anybody would ever say that's the wrong attitude. If anything, I think it's the right attitude. So I think it is gonna be different 100% going forward. - We hear lots of rumors about the royals. And there's one that the Queen Knight cornflakes out of top oil in the morning. - It's not a rumor. And the reason I can say that is because, I don't know if you remember, and I was there when this all happened, I'd journalists actually got into Buckingham Palace as a footman. - Yes. - And there was photograph of evidence and it was all over the place. Now, can I say in fairness to this, I like this idea, because when you have your conflicts in the morning, you're about to bring in your breakers. - And it. - So if you think about those pockets, if you don't steal them properly, it becomes all still. - Yeah, quite quickly. - But if it's in Tupperware, it lasts and lasts and lasts. - Am I misunderstanding, storing in Tupperware or eating out of a Tupperware? - Storing. Okay, yeah, she's not storing in milk into the Tupperware. - No, I'm not. - I can be a little family. It's not. - Okay, I mean, if you're endorsing it Grant, maybe I'll try it, but I kind of like a bowl. - I think it's not the sense of talking about it. You were talking about the royal family. - God, I think we'd all love to see that. - There's some e-skimmed lid off. - No, that would be a disaster. God, not even the cog is to be fed out of a Tupperware bowl. - Wow. - And to become a royal butler, one, what made you want to do it? And two, what previous experience do you need? - To draw a butler, but I didn't actually want to be a butler. I actually wanted to marry into the family. So I saw a documentary back in 1992, all about the queen and the royal family. I already loved the queen. And I said to my dad, how'd you join it? And that's when you said, well, you marry into them. Oh, you work for them. And he said, you're not gonna marry them because if I'm honest, you're more common. And it's not gonna happen. And then he said, and you're not gonna work for them 'cause I 500 miles away. Well, his view of glistens calling. So he said, that's not gonna happen. But I don't remember. I didn't like, I'm a huge believer that if you want something, you can make it happen. And from a young, young age, I believed that. I'm never certainly going, I'm gonna dance with her. I'm gonna meet her and I'm gonna dance with her 'cause there was dancing and the documentary. And that was that thing. I said to my dad, I want to dance with her. And my dad said, you're never gonna dance with her. With Diana. The queen. The queen. Oh, no, I went to dance with the queen. I went to the top. And my dad said, you're dreaming, my boy, you're dreaming. I remember, he was kind of, you know, it says, just you're my generation. And I remember sitting there and I promise you, I remember thinking, I'm gonna dance with her. I don't know how I'm gonna do it, but I'm gonna do it. And I said to you later, right turn and to different states, trying to get a job on the estate 'cause I thought, if I get into the state, I can want my way up. And then I saw remains of the day. With Anthony Hawkins and I thought, that's how I do it. I become a bachelor, I want my way up and I go and work for the raw family. So I planned it when I was 14. And by the age of 26, they'd have it clarified. So I was talking to you with the future king as one of these baklers. And then as soon as I got the job within a year, I'm up in Scotland again. And there's a notice in the notice board saying that the queen had given a ball tonight and I went into the office to the zekage and I said, what is this ball? And she said, well, they have two of them every, the queen has two every year and the first one's coming up. And I said, I have to go to it. And she said, why? And I said, when I was a kid, I saw it. And I said, it's my dream. I said, okay, she pushed her back, a parent should write your name, that's her own name down. And then she goes back to work and away. And I looked at her and I said, now watch what do you mean? I said, well, is it a baller? Is it a dog at an email? Did I get a letter? And she said, oh no, just make sure you're ready to go on the night. And I said, is it that easy? And she said, yeah, I thought, my God, I had to do this years ago, if I'd known it was that easy. And then on the night of the dinner, I chickened out because I was all armed, I was wrong. What arms have I gone to the room? And I, I don't know, she just wanted to dance with me or I tripp her up. Or so I decided not to go. So as I was doing the dinner, the no king said to me, oh, you're ready for tonight? And I said, well, I'm not going to go now, so I told him I was going to go. And he said, why? I said, well, I'm getting out of the way. And he said, where are you? You're killed. He said, oh, my kill. Oh, that's a good point, so I'm in my kill. And I think I can't go, I can't go. And I get round to Kimela. And she said, what settled, you're coming? And I said, I can't, I can't get there. I said, I'm not going to go on a bike in the middle of the night. I said, I don't have a car. And she said, oh, grand. And she looks over at him and she beats her hand in her head. And she goes, darling, he can come with us, can't he? And I'm thinking, what? And he turned around and he says, yeah, so of course, you're going to change and we'll go together. I know this. I know. Oh my gosh. I run to my room, past this other butler. He said, where you going? I'm missing. I'm off to the ball. I run to my room. I change. I come back. And they're all waiting for the prince and the duchess. And the doors open and the car doors slightly out. And so I go out because they come down the steps and he's like, right off off we go. And I go down the steps and I go into the car. And as I go in this detective pulls me, forcefully, back the way. And I'm looking, say, no, no, no. I'm allowed to go. What is it? not in the car with the flag. So because that's the official car. So I get in the car in the back and off we go and convoy with, you know, the outriders and stuff. I was picturing you sat in the middle, squished between the two of them. So I love actually, but it's pretty much the two grand. My question, no, I had to get in the car in the back, but this gets even weird because as we got to my moral car, when we slowed down, I had a vision of when I was a kid standing in my moral car, so waving at the cars as he used to drive up the drive. And I saw these people waving and as the car slowed down for the gates to open, I looked out and I suddenly did the Royal Wave to the people. Really feeling yourself. Yeah. And the detective next to what are you doing and I said, the people, they've come so far. And he was like, do you want to put a white glove on? I said, do you have any? And we drive up to the car. So we go in, I had to go in the 7th sentence, couldn't win the front. And as soon as I'm in there, the music pips up with a Nash Ratham, the Royal's no come down. It's all very quick. And I panicked, so I went and head behind the screen. It was kind of a windbreaker from the outside. And no Queen Camilla, she made a B-line straight for me. She pulled me out from the screen and she says, don't be nervous. She says, I'm going to dance with you to relax you. Let's have a dance. Do you know this Elsa? Do you know the salsa? Yes, not quite. Anyway, so we do, we do her dance and during it, she says, why are you so nervous? And I said, when I was a kid, I had this dream, I would be here and I'd dance with her. She said, there's 130 people here. Enjoy it. Relax. You're probably not going to dance with her. Just just enjoy the moment. And as soon as she'd said at the music stopped and she said, oh, look at that. And I thought I was on her feet. So I looked down and I went, oh, you're Highness. And she went, oh, look at that again. And she's kind of moving her head, trying to get me to look behind me when I turned around. Queen Elizabeth standing behind me and she put her hand towards me. She's right. Shall we do this? Shall we do this? Amazing. And Kimela pushed me forward. And then the Queen took us all over and we formed this group and we did this fun real, I mean, a dance where I got to dance with the Queen and part of it. I mean, it was surreal. But the only thing that went a bit wrong was at the end of the dance, this group, three of you move on to the next lot and three move on to I'm with the Queen and Queen Kimela. And we go to go forward and then somebody goes under somebody goes over and Queen Kimela was trying to make us go under. So you've got Prince Philip, Prince Charles and one other and the trying to make us go under and I pulled the Queen's hand up. We almost fell over. They had to create themselves. The Queen looked to me a bit and I was like, what's that all about? And then Kimela came over and she said, well, why did you do that? Should you almost made us all fall over? And I said, you know, Highness, if we had gone under, you're going to make Queen Elizabeth bow to the future King Charles, which is against royal protocol. And I thought I have just saved the British Monarchy. And you got you dream. And I got my dream. So you're not in there anymore? No, nothing gone for 14 years. Why did you leave? Do you know what was really sad? Because I know it sounds weird, but the Queen had a bit of, there was a spell with you, which didn't mean that well. And I think it caused a bit of a panic. And suddenly they were doing redundancies. They were doing cutbacks all those years ago. And I was one of them, which now I'm so grateful. I mean, it sounds weird. I'm so because otherwise, God, I mean, it's taking a long time to build up this new career. And so I did the, I went down that route. But the reason I say it's sad is a lot of my colleagues remained. And when the Queen died, I don't know if you know this, all the contracts became null and voids. Everybody lost their jobs. And they had to reapply there to be re-employed. And many of them didn't get their jobs, didn't get re-employed. So, you know, these are people that maybe were when I left getting into the 50s, then in the 60s and suddenly they're having to find new jobs. And so I'm lucky that I left when I left. We obviously have to adjust the Royal elephant in the room, given when we're recording Andrew Mountbatten Windsor has been in the news a lot. Did you ever encounter him? I did. Not often. I had very, very little to do with him. It is true. He was very dismissive. You know, he, you were staff. There's no two years of it. He was very polite, you know, not over-polite, but you, he wasn't rude, you know, he acknowledged if he did something. But when I say dismissive, what I mean by that is, he knew you were the staff. You know, there's no two years of it. I was, I know where of, you know, well, I was told with his character. I was told about how he was as a person. So I was feeling weird, but as my past didn't really cross with his, very, really that I ever saw him. I saw him obviously at family events. I was at King and Queen Camila's wedding. And I remember, I was there as a guest. I got to kind of mingle with, I didn't remember with him though. He did his own thing. And could you tell that he was the Queen's favourite? No, I really didn't. That's what's so funny when people say that. I didn't see it. If you were to say to me he was the Queen's favourite, I just said Princess Iron. Because the two of them were very close. I mean, she was close with all her kids, I think. But maybe she knew, maybe she could tell that he, I'm not saying he struggled or whatever, but he was, you know, I think the way they brought up and those parlors and things, you are given everything you want. You know, you, everything's put on a plate, I suppose, for your back. I'm talking about the 60s, 50s, 60s. So it's a very different world. And maybe it's like that famous book, you know, entitled about how it kind of sums up how he became, sadly. And this is what's caused the downfall. The side bit about about this is, as we all know, is it's become such a big thing. And, you know, the monarchy's popularity has absolutely declined since the death of Queen Elizabeth. And it's not that people don't like the King. It's just a very different royal family. I think the reality is, you know, it's not going to go away. I think it's going to probably get worse before it gets better. But looking to the future, I think it was going to look in at William and Carthon, if you like, as the future. And even the King, I think, so we're of that. So I think that'll be more the focus. And that'll be a clean sweep, because that'll be a very different monarchy, I think. As someone who's clearly very proud of their time working with the royals, how did you feel on that Andrew News story broke? I mean, everyone kind of says they feel sorry for the King and whether, I feel sorry for the, I'm glad she's not here. Isn't that a terrible thing to say when you think that was something? Because I think she was protective of them. I think she's a mother. And all I'll see, and all the stress that obviously has not been very guilty of anything. And obviously it's ongoing. But I think she's very much a mother. She was very farmy-orientated. And I think that's why she was so protective of them. And I think what I remember when the news broke, I do remember thinking, I'm glad she's not here because I don't know how she would have caught with that. I don't know. I don't know how any mother would caught when they realized that, because even if she knew it better or became aware of it or whatever, I'm sure she would, in her head, want to deny it because you don't want to think bad of your kids. You know, do that's a reality of it. So I do feel for her and I'm kind of glad that she wasn't here, tough to actually experience and to be living through this because I think the royal family just knows not a great time for any of them. Huge thanks to Grant Harold for joining us today. Alice, what do you have for us next time? Okay, so this is quite exciting because I think it might be our first cold case. Oh, the mood is triangle. No, I think that's more of a mystery than a kind of police investigation. Okay, Loch Ness Monster. Again, is that sort of in the mythical department? Fair point. My bike got next to night night too. Now we're talking. Do you have any evidence? No evidence. No justice. No peace. Okay, we simply have to put your mind at rest and do that for a future series. But actually what I'm talking about is much more grizzly. Our next series is about the notorious Dr. Krippen, his missing wife and the body in the cellar. And that's where my bike was? I think it's a hot lead. Can't wait. You've been listening to British scandal and audible original. British scandalous hosted by me, Matt Ford. And me, Alice Levine. For Sam is that, our series producer was Chica Ayers. Our assistant producer was Louise Mason. Our senior producers were Joe Sykes and Daschialis Insina. Our engineer was Jay Williams. Executive producers for Audible with Theodore Rillaloudis and Estelle Doyle.