Harry and Meghan FLEE America, with Maureen Callahan, and Bombshell New Karmelo Anthony Texts, with Aronberg, Merchant, and Aidala | Ep. 1383

Welcome to the Megan Kelly show live on Sirius XM channel 111 every weekday at Neist. Hey, everyone, I'm Megan Kelly. Welcome to the Megan Kelly show today to important self- deportations that can unite all of America. This is the first thing we've been able to agree upon in over a decade. Megan and Harry are leaving. Praise Jesus. They're going. Get back to the UK. Go become somebody else's problem. We're sick of you. We have enough weirdos, self narcissistic, obsessed Americans already. The country's full. It's saturated. Go home, Harry. We never wanted to hear to begin with. If we had to have one of the kids of Prince Charles, Ben, Prince Charles, we all wanted William. Nobody wanted you. I don't know how we got stuck with Megan anyway. We had safely ejected her to Canada. Then you came along, took her over to UK. That was fine. It was a hot mess for you, but we were still living our beautiful lives. And now finally, she's going back to the UK and we all know why there's many speculations out there about why, but I'll tell you why, because they can't stand not being adored and famous and welcomed everywhere and getting the reservations they want and the attention they want. We went privacy. Don't know is a lie. And they think that they'll have an elevated status over in the UK and that's how well they're children. They want those children to be brought up as the little prince in princess they are. And they know that the British public actually believes in that crap unlike us. No one here is treating Archie and Lillabette like royalty. No one. We don't do royalty here in America. We fought a whole war to get away from those people and that these children are not going to be treated as anything special. Sorry, especially in Montecito, where if you're the child of George Clooney, you're closer to royalty than if you're Megan Markles kid. No one gives two dams. So that this is my own belief. This is why they're going. They're going back to a place where they can feel special and they can get reservations at any restaurant and the tabloid attention will pick back up because it's withered down to an arid dryness now and they can't stand it. She can't stand it, but he can't stand it either. He's just petty and small as she is. You know, yesterday on the show, yeah, it was yesterday, right? It was Wednesday, like all the days are blending. We had on Doug Brun. He was our second hour and if you are listening to the podcast we're watching is on YouTube, you didn't see it because it was something we do in August every year just for the serious XM listeners because we have a great relationship with serious XM. We love them. And so we give them like a special feature once a year where we do a series that's just for the asset a serious XM audience. And by the way, if you're not subscribed to serious XM, you should totally do it. I love serious XM. I listen to it all the time. It's got so many great things. The app is good. If you if you missed this show, if you want to keep up even on cable, like see what the weirdos are saying, you know, he's pull up somebody's show. They've got virtually all of them on there. Anyway, it's a great app and our get closer series yesterday featured Doug. And I love introducing people to Doug because Doug is great. He's smart. He's charming. He's just easy, you know, to be around and to listen to not to mention a look at. And I adore him. And you can tell he's a great guy when you talk to him. Like I need only introduce you to Doug for you to love Doug. These two, like I can't imagine what it's like when they have to introduce the other to somebody who doesn't know them because of course they're thinking like, oh my God, Prince Harry. And then they meet him and see what a hot mess he is. And by the way, he doesn't even have proper grammar. You think a prince of England would be able to, you know, do subject verb agreement. He can. He's actually kind of an idiot, which is ironic because they apparently are sending their children back to the UK because they want them to go to UK schools because Harry's so enamored with the education he had. I think you need to rethink that Harry. And can you imagine introducing somebody to Megan Markle as your wife, who's bullied everybody, who's nasty, who snaps at her own friends as we saw in that with love, Megan show. So it's like these, it's only a matter of time before this relationship is over. We all know that. And now they're going to be the problem of the UK friends. And you know what? Part of me, my heart goes out to them because they don't really deserve this. They're already dealing with like a lunatic government that's cracking down on free speech, the influx of radical Muslims who are trying to chastise them for wearing tank tops. I mean, this is a lot. They've already had to deal with a lot. The Kings got cancer, Princess Kate had cancer. They don't need this other form of cancer coming back to the UK. Why? They should go back to Canada. That would be a solution we could all live with. Okay. That's my initial take on this. We are in just a bit going to get to a packed Kelly's court on Lindsey Clancy. And what's happening in that trial where the something's happening with the jury today, we'll get into it. And also Hayden penitier, as we're learning that the DEA is now joining the investigation of this case. Didn't I tell you? Didn't I tell you? That's what happened right before the Matthew Perry people got charged. The DEA swooped in. And before we knew it, four or five people got charged. That's where this is going. Guarantee it. Okay. But we're going to get into first before we do any of that, just a quick programming note here. We've got the latest episode of our MK live series. It's available on YouTube for those who join our members only. It's a new feature on YouTube that you can offer to your fans. And you head out over to youtube.com/megankelly. Now make sure you're on the YouTube app if you're using your phone. Otherwise, you won't see the little join button. But if you use a YouTube app and then you will see the join button, you hit join to subscribe. And there you will get access to all sorts of exclusive content, including live discussions with yours. Truly, we're going to have one coming up on Monday night, where we're going to get into MK confidential and other subjects. But we're going to have sort of our our book club version of MK confidential where we talk about the crime series and your thoughts on the cases and, you know, how they turned out. Anyway, that's going to happen on Monday night. We'll have more on that on Monday. But you got to be a member, you got to be a member of members only. It's 699 a month. It's not that much, whatever. If if you don't want to, you don't have to. But I think it's actually going to be really fun. We already had one of these Q&As. It was really fun. The tour documentary episode is called Backstage Pass. And that's exactly what it gives you the inside look and what really happened behind the scenes on our tour last year. Oh, it's quite a behind the scenes look to features a broken guitar burns to yours truly and Abby, my assistant. And burns in more way more ways than one. We also get into my attempts to mediate the hatred between Ben Shapiro and Tucker Carlson, how that workout for me. Here's what you're going to find a little preview. This goes out there and let's rip. It's heavy so much fun. This is the United f*cking States of America. Now they're tying up what she thinks every single day. She's not hiding. She would look withered on the vine at Legacy Media. This is the real minute. I feel like it brings me joy being on the road with her. It's really good to me. We all got on the motorcycle. I knew what my legs need to do on a motorcycle. Megan did not. She's like, I see like the pain in her smile. Jennifer is walking up the stairs with his guitar and bell. My food caught the last step and just bam, just snapped the head right off of her. This grandma is trying to find her piece of the guitar. My brother Pete out there with you Peter, you in the front here, right here. He absolutely tortured me as a child. My mother will tell you all the time. We talk to your sister and have her slow down on the body language. I do read all the emails. I have a general understanding that while maybe 15% of the audience feels that way, 85% are with me. She told me once at drinks that I wrote something bad about her and I said, oh my god, I feel terrible that I wrote that I can't believe it. I really feel like my two brothers are arguing. Not in politics to be friends with people, buzz off. Yes, they kind of gave up and forging a piece between them. He's just so good to be with the people that I spend two hours with every day. See a reasonable right wingers. So many fun and some fraught moments in this episode. It's going to be available right now for subscribers of our MK members only. So head on over to youtube.com/megancally and join now. All right. We want to bring in someone who you just saw in that little trailer. Maureen Callahan, she's host of the hit show The Nerve on our MK Media podcast network. In the US, a break in happens every 26 seconds. Most systems only alert you after an intruder is already inside your home by then the damage is done. But then they're simply safe with their new outdoor camera series too and advanced. AI, simply safe does not just watch as somebody tries to get into your home. It acts. If a threat is detected, US-based live agents can intervene to deter intruders before they cross the threshold, I just love this so much. Going on vacation, you can check your feed and know that professionals are monitoring your home. Plus the setup is a breeze. Get your system running in under 30 minutes. No long-term contracts simply safe earns your business every day, rather than trying to lock you into a trap. It's elite protection that fits your life, not the other way around. Simply safe has an exclusive discount for you too. Right now, get 50% off your new system by visiting simplysafe.com/magan. That's half off at s-i-m-p-l-i-safe.com/magan. There's no safe, like simply safe. Morene, this is huge news about these two grifters. Why do you think they're leaving after telling us, for six years, they couldn't stand the UK, they made their escape, to Montecito, the propaganda of that with love, Meghan Trenna. Show us this miraculous, perfect life that they had built for themselves out in one of the most beautiful areas on Earth. They had everything was perfect, Morene. Why are they leaving? I have so many theories, Meghan, so many theories. When I was thinking about all of this in advance of coming on to talk to you, it occurred to me by the way that this is personal, at least for me, because the very first time I did your show, and I think you had just gone to video, I was asked to come on because of a Meghan and Harry blow-up story, and I believe it was the story in which Meghan said to the cut that she was told by a member of the Lion King, that when she married into Harry's family, they danced in the streets in South Africa like Mandela was freed. Don't forget it, it's seared in my memory, and who knew, a friendship would be born from that. Meghan and Harry, at least they brought you and I together, you know, I can be thankful for that. For that, we're truly grateful. I can be truly grateful for that. I think many things are going on, so the reporting is, the reporting that the Daily Mail has, is that Charles himself was blindsided by this news. You know, they were just in the UK, Harry just had that meeting with the king at Hygrove. The reporting is that he never mentioned a peep to the king. Now that's the reporting, could there be a deeper play at work here, where that's the official story, because we also know this marriage seems to be in trouble. They professionally separated their brands about a year ago and announced they were doing so here in the United States, Harry and Meghan have been making appearances separately together separate from each other, excuse me, four months now. We had reporting over at the nerve lady C came on with her explosive report, multiple ly sourced, heard it, Harry's in love with another woman, which she said, yeah, and that other woman, Harry, Harry love somebody else. And there was a question raised about whether Meghan actually carried those babies or used a surrogate. This is something we've seen in the press for a long time. It's not really the behind the move or anything. It was just very interesting. Lady C was suggesting she'd heard speculation along the same lines. Of course, Meghan and Harry say that she carried their babies, but I mean, it would be right on brand with his vain woman to not want to do anything to her precious body, whatever. That's an aside. If he's in love with somebody else and they're leaving because what he wants to get the children back in the UK before things split up so that he doesn't have to deal with and across the pond relationship, you know, they're there. He'll be in better legal standing to say, you have to stay here, but I don't know because Maureen, they're keeping the Montecito mansion for now. And so that has some people thinking she's either not really going to go with him. Like this could actually be the split where for all intents and purposes, like she's actually going to stay here, even though we're pretending she's leaving. Who knows? Well, I read this morning that there is now as always with the Sussex is nothing is clean. There's no controlled messaging that's seamless. The reporting, the latest reporting is that Meghan's going to give it a try for six months. She's not all in. Now, you know, when they went back and Harry had that meeting with Charles at high grove and the reporting also was that Meghan was made to wait in the hallway for quite some time before she could join her husband with the king. They're running out of money. I don't know how they're going to finance a non-royal home, a home not provided by the British royal family, right? Is this part of a larger play to get Harry back, to get the children, once you enroll children at such young ages in school, you know, the idea of ripping them out is a huge one. Harry gets out of California residence before 10 years are up. Once 10 years are hit in California, you file for divorce. It's community property, 50/50. Okay, so now he's got British residents reasserted, reaffirmed. Meghan, what is she going to do there? She is loathed. She's got no friends. I asked the team to pull this for me. I said, what's the latest approval rating of those two over there? You go of Paula Britons in July. Harry's favorability is 30%. Britain's is 22. For comparison, Williams was at 76, Princess Catherine is at 74, all right? I mean, even Queen Camila's, she's at 43. She's well ahead of both of them in the British public use to hate her. But now look at that. Meghan Markle has a 22% favorability rating in the UK. Nearly 80% of the populace hates her. So what will she do, Meghan, because again, that last trip to the UK, she didn't even show her face publicly, not once. She came late, actually. The reporting is initially was she and the children were going to be with Harry during this most momentous visit in which he was promoting the 2027 Invictus games. His most serious cause, the cause we are told is closest to his heart. Was she there for any of it? Nope. That was the same week, by the way, he got the black eye. All of his claims against the publisher of the Daily Mail were rejected. He and his cohort are now on the hook for $63 million, you know, because loser pays in the British legal system and he lost he lost and and that's not even the judge still has to rule on what legal fees he'll be paying for the defense in that court case. When I find this timing, as I know you do, incredibly convenient, they have no money. All of the Hollywood people have backed away slowly and have vanished. Your Oprah's, your Tyler Perry's, your Chris Jenner's, Ted Sarandos. Ted Sarandos. I mean, he denied it in the variety piece, but it seemed to me like a faint denial where he said, I won't get on the phone with her without my lawyer on the other line. They're done. We're done here. Megan's done there. I have no idea what she does with herself for six months. We know she can't live without a camera or a spotlight. Yeah. No, they have no friends, Maureen, remember Harry? He showed up at the NBA Finals with the commissioner. It was like a guy in his 30s gets an invitation to the NBA Finals and he doesn't go with like his bros. That's like, yes, Doug and I are very much in love. I would not be his first phone call for the NBA Finals. He would want to go with one of his best friends, one of his dude friends who loves basketball. He showed up with the commissioner. He has no one and she has no one. They have absolutely no friends, but I really think it's more simple. I genuinely believe they, it's their vanity and in particular, it's her vanity. I believe she's not happy. Her little kids are not getting the royal treatment and neither is she. I think she probably wants those kids to grow up with a British accent. I think she wants them to be referred to as prince and princess everywhere. I think she wants to be able to have her latest assistant who only lasts two months because she bullies them all out, be able to call any restaurant in town and say it's the duke in Duchess of Sussex, which actually means something over there. Here, people are like, whatever, give me a fucking break, is it Tom Cruise or isn't it? Because that's the only person we stay up late for. She wants that status that she thought she was getting when she married him. I believe she wants this and she probably had to talk him into it because he actually has been ripping on his country. And stop 15 months ago. He said he could not possibly, is this a sound bite or is this just in my notes? He said he could not possibly go back there. No, no, no, no, it is a sound bite. I can't see a world in which I'd be bringing my wife and children back to the UK. So five, listen, the only time that I've come back to the UK is sadly. for funerals or court cases, with the odd charitable function, where I can in between that. I put myself at risk for that, but I will continue on with a life of public service. I will always support the charities and the people that mean so much to me. I can't see a world in which I will be bringing my wife and children back to the UK at this point. And the things that they're going to miss is, well, everything, you know, I love my country. I always have done. Despite what some people in that country have done. Okay, but that was 15 months ago, Maureen. I can't see a world in which I'd bring them back. Now they're all moving there. What changed? Consistency and, you know, an intellectual through line has never been the strong suit of the Sussexes ever. True. True facts. I also think that I, you know, we talked about last time we talked about this. It was just like five minutes ago. You know, we were talking about how Diana, I think Diana had it right. When she said Charles was two week for the top job, people magazine in their exclusive report last night. And we know people, which is from her, the preferred. They definitely have her as a source, in my opinion, she's their source. Exactly. All of their exclusives, which are over the top favorable to her, they shoot them the emails, you know, and then they just reprint them with like, you know, very, very minor tweaks said that the people report, oh, said that the Sussexes felt they had very successfully accomplished what they had set out to do by moving to America, which was established themselves as the half and half out royals, which is session F you to the late queen, who at this, and they blindsided the queen too with their announcement of Megzett in the first place at the Sandrium Summit. The late queen said, there is no half in or half out in her infinite wisdom. She said, no half in or half out. You're either all in and you serve the British public and you represent this country or you are out. Go make your money. We wish you well. You cannot represent the royals. And now they're saying, they're not only are they doing that, they've successfully done it. And I think the danger here is very real, because I think that Harry is going to continue to make his appearances. And he is a prince of the blood. And those will be considered royal appearances, you know, whether they're endorsed by the palace or not. Megan will continue her travels as an ambassador of who knows what? And she'll consider those royal appearances. Now this is I think also the deviousness of these two, because I think they are looking to get back in with King Charles. And they're going to they're going to attempt to checkmate William, because once Charles begins to soften, operation, thoughts, what is called in Charles's realm, how is William going to look to the British public? If he maintains his stance that his brother who has been nothing but a traitor to him, his wife, his children and the crown, will William somehow be depicted as the bad guy here? He'd love nothing more. I mean, his in his book, Bear, which is the only successful thing they've done. He alleged that during a 2019 argument over Megan, William called Megan difficult, rude, and abrasive that he grabbed Harry by the collar and knocked him to the floor where he landed on a dog bowl and injured his back. He said that William leader apologized. He called William his arch nemesis. He's my beloved brother and arch nemesis. He said, by the way, while one the subject of the of insults he hurled his family in his book, a couple more. He accused Camilla of using him to fix her image. He portrayed her as dangerous because of her relationships with the British press. He accused his dad, Camilla and William of working with the press against him. He, you know, he's had nothing but negative things to say about them. And then in that Netflix special, the two of them called the British public racist. We pulled the sound bite. Just in case people forgot, I guarantee you the British public has not forgotten. It's not 10 B. If you go back and look at the social media of that moment, immigration isn't the absolute center of those debates. And immigration is very often in this country. It's cipher for race. Everybody should should feel concerned about illegal immigration. We don't know who these people are. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. So the EU commission report 2060 has to understand exactly the same time that our relationship became public. It warned that if the government isn't going to do something, or if the media aren't going to sort themselves out, that a culture war that had already existed was going to become a huge and become a real problem. Increased racist attacks after a year was a perfect success. The gave credence to jingoism and nationalism and gave people with really horrible views of the world, a little bit more strength and confidence to say what they wanted to say, to do whatever they wanted to do. The nerve of these two to call them all racists, anybody who wanted Brexit was racist and then expect to prance back in there and get a hero's return. Well, you know that Netflix documentary, which I believe they fired the original director, or she left under a cloud of conflict, you know, if that's there, if that's the story they want to put out there, that racism really began to flourish when Megan came on the scene. I mean, I call this histrionic personality disorder, you know, you're responsible for like crossword or call, you know, get out. Okay. Secondly, if this is true, if this is, if this is what they truly believe, Megan, why? Okay, Harry has spent almost his entire, his full-time job as best I can tell has been suing the British tabloids. Yeah. So if the British tabloids are so terrible, have made as he said on the witness stand, he said that he was weeping or they've made my, my wife's life a living hell at which point the judge had to say, excuse me, sir, this isn't a therapy session. Control yourself. Right. This is a McDonald's, sir. You know, like stop crying. If even more, even in that, in that people magazine piece, because the telegraph broke the news that makes it's off and now they're going back. And then people magazine almost instantly had its own piece up 100% obviously from the Sussexes. And in that piece, they, they, they, they detail like what they're, what they're going to do and what this is about a lot of one second. I just want to pull it up because it's, it's better if I read it. Yeah. Okay. This is what they put the blame on. While the couple appeared to have an idyllic life in Montecito, they want you to know it was idyllic. This isn't a fail. Everything was ideal and idyllic. While they appeared to have an idyllic life in Montecito, they have made no secret of their disillusionment with the current White House with the midterm elections fast approaching concerns about the direction of the US loom large for many. This is the most cynical BS I've ever read in my life. They don't give a shit about who's in the White House. If she were getting her reservations when she wanted them, she'd be staying. Trump has been president or president elect for almost two years now. In fact, he's been president in his second term for so long that we are now on the cusp of beginning the next presidential election where he could possibly be replaced by a, by a Democrat. He will be replaced by somebody. So to blame it on Trump is such an obvious head fake like to her leftist, you know, the very small crew of leftists who still like her. Like I said, I'm leaving because of Trump. What a lie that to me putting that in there makes it clear that this is all a lie and they don't want to tell us what the real reason is. And so what that, okay, so it's got to be a few things. Are they ending the relationship? Are they out of money, which is a very real possibility or is it just a petty need or more attention? You tell me, Maureen, how that's going to go. If okay, so great. You can get your restaurant, your restaurant reservation, but everyone there hates you. No one's clamoring to spend time with you. They're looking at you, but they're looking at you distinctly. They can't stand you and they know now that you can't stand them. I'm so happy that they very quickly disavowed their search for privacy. All credit to South Park, Worldwide Privacy Tour. Yes. And have left us with such historical documentation of everything they thought and felt in any given moment. Do you remember, Maureen, who was around this time last year, I think, or maybe even earlier this year? Meghan sat down with Emily Chang of Bloomberg. She was launching something else. And Emily Chang, over smash burgers, asked Meghan about the very difficult time we're in in this country and did Meghan feel like she could say everything she wanted to say as far as her concerns about where this country is headed politically. And Meghan sat there, knowing, as Michael Jordan famously said, Republicans by sneakers too. Well, I think I've said everything I've had to say. Now we're politicizing it again, and we're politicizing it just months after King Charles and Queen Camilla came to the United States for a multi-day state. We're warmly welcomed by Donald and Melania Trump have spoken mutually about how much they regard each other in the highest realm. So it's, it's, it's so on branch for them to mess everything up before they even start. Let's blame Harry's father's American best friend, the leader of the free world. That's the ticket. Mm-hmm. Yes. And that way maybe leftist Britons might welcome us back. We had to flee Trump. He was so bad and all of Maga is so racist. Just like those evil Brexit voting Britons, we had no choice but to return home. Where Megan could be safe. Where are black children could be safe? They're wider than you and I are. That's why I buy the surgery and the egg donor rumors. I mean, you know, those are red hair, blue eyes, those are recessive jeans. Honestly, and you and I are white and these kids, we are pasty. These kids are pastier than we are. The obsession with celebrity is a factor here. You mentioned it. They got the cold shoulder out there. No one's taking their calls anymore. There have been multiple reports out about this. We literally talked about the cold shoulder that they got at that event with the guy was supposed to be like a surrogate father to Harry that, you know, Mucky and Muck up in Canada. Yeah. We go married to Catherine McVee. How he didn't want to like hug Megan on the red carpet and it was an obvious awkward moment. Oprah reportedly said no to doing another interview with them. They're not, they're not what they thought they'd be. And these two are obsessed with celebrity. Meanwhile, Kate and William are like this, you know, everybody wants to book them, everybody wants to be near them. It's like, you know, touching them gives you the mightest touch. That's the image that they have. But can we forget this image, this moment from Megan after the, hold on a second. It was, it was after the Oprah interview aired and they included this bit in their Netflix special about a special phone call that Megan got. Stop three. The answer just texted, just checking if, just checking and just casual, it's okay. It's okay. It's okay. It's okay. It's okay. Don't call her. You know, it's okay. She said she wants me to feel safe and protected, she's my, as in respects, my bravery and vulnerability. And since I was selected to break generational curses that need to be healed. God. It's awesome. Oh my God. Maureen, could I just tell you something? So, you know, at the top of the show, I teased this behind the scenes stuff on the MK tour. And you're in this week's episode is so good. But it was funny because my producers God loved them, had included like some, some over the top nice things that certain characters had said about me. And I said, please take all that out. Take that out of there. We, I don't want that, you know, it's ridiculous, like I'm putting it out. If I'm putting it out, it's like me complimenting myself, I'm not doing that. This bitch had that, in her Netflix doctor, I'm reading, she braised my bravery generational curses, traumas and Harry, like the ballast wonder he is, is like, that's right. That's right. You were said to break the curses brought by generations of my family. The oldest monarchy in the West, I believe. You know, it's incredible too because I don't believe that that was the text Beyonce wrote. It just doesn't sound like Beyonce. I have like a very, very, very well-sourced friend who has told me that she, this was stuff she was saying once she was behind palace walls before the marriage, that she believed she had been divinely ordained to be the second coming of Princess Diana. Oh my, she's like unwelcome, she's a, I think she's a deeply unwelcome dangerous person. I think that the other thing, Megan, from that Netflix documentary, which I don't understand how any Brit will ever get past. I mean, we just went through her taking photos of Harry and the children at what looked like a procession to Diana's grave, which was said to enrage Prince William rightly so, the crossing of the ankles, in the limousine, while driving past Diana's death tunnel. The mock curtsy that she executed, that deep, hot curtsy. Here it is, sat nine, making fun of the queen. Americans will understand this, we have medieval times, dinner and tournament. It was like that. Like, I curtsied as though I was like. Pleasure to meet you, your majesty. Was that okay? Oh my, his reaction says it all. She's such an asshole. She's making fun of it. And by the way, Megan, speak for yourself. America at large does not regard the British royal family as like medieval times. No. No. In the eyes of restaurant slash theme park, we do not. But in that moment, and that's where I, you see her deep insecurity and lack of a self. The only thing she knows how to do is try to elevate herself, compensate for her deep insecurity. The mask she's always wearing by bringing Harry and the British royal family down to her level. Well, now, I mean, I'll be interested to see, and we'll cover this as it evolves. And I will be interested to see what this does to the royal family because they've set off yet another bomb within it. If it's true that they didn't tell King Charles until this past Sunday that the reports are both in people. So they're claiming it and the telegraph. As you pointed out, that he didn't find out until Sunday the 16th of August, which was this past Sunday, right? Yeah. This has under the one before. No, this one. Like a few days ago. Yeah. So that he didn't tell them, he didn't tell the King when he was over there and that the King found out as we all did basically, and William and Kate reportedly don't want this. So what, what's going to happen now? I mean, how does this threaten the royal family because poor King Charles is now going to have to be navigating between the one son who is the heir who has done his duty, who didn't get a six year reprieve hanging out with Tyler Perry and Oprah, who doesn't want them and doesn't appreciate the split business nature of the relationship. As you point out, Queen Elizabeth said no to and the other son who just plays on his heart strings and says, well, if you want to see your latest grandchildren, you know, you'll allow me back and we'll be able to do regular visits at all the royal properties. And you'll protect me with adequate security and make me feel like a royal like I, like I want. And so poor King Charles, who is aging and still dealing with the fallout from the cancer diagnosis has been placed in a very difficult spot. And this could really tear the whole family apart. I agree with you. I think it's the greatest existential threat since Andrew truly, you know, and they just sort of excised that cancer only to have a different kind, reenter the host, you know, this affects Britain. It's not, it's not just any family. And this is where I do think Diana was right. And Charles is weak. If they're going to insist upon returning, I think the King needs to make it very clear. Their returning is private citizens. They have no, there is no place for them in the family that they renounced. And you know, Charles isn't the only member of this family who has been dealing with cancer. Catherine was diagnosed with cancer and you know what could have helped when William was dealing with a sick wife and three small children and a sick father having a brother who hadn't betrayed him so many times in such deep, profound ways who had stayed and done the job and a sister-in-law who understood her role and stepped in to help. That would have been, that would have been what, that's what family does. I, I, I think that Charles is, is, I think, I think there's something even deeper here. I think, and it's dark, but I think Charles resents William. I do. I think it's just like I have now. They say that there's a rift between those two that because William holds him responsible for what happened to William's mother. But William also has all of Diana's gifts. He's got the charm, the magnetism total. He's photogenic. People love him. He's got this image like, Charles resented Diana for all of those qualities as well. Charles reads the polls. He knows that the British public, this job he's been waiting for, his entire adult life, he gets it, he gets sick. He reads the papers. He knows that the British public would die for William to ascend the throne sooner than they want. They want William. Yep. They want. So this is something else. There's something else. Those two grifters want their children to grow up close to the future future king. And I mean Prince George. So they have George. What's the name of Charlotte and then Louis? Okay. Now they know that I think they know that Harry and William are probably not going to reconcile. But one day George will be king. And I think they want Lillabette and Archie to be in a position to be treated by that point as equal royals to George and Charlotte and Louis that they can salvage that generation. And Louis is only eight years old. And guess how old Archie is? He's seven years old. And there is a report out today suggesting that they are they're hoping to ingratiate themselves with the wider British family like the royal British royal family. All the other royals who are running around out there not named William and Kate and their children as well. And think about it and they want them to go to these British schools. So if these kids could follow in the footsteps of William and Harry, then those boys are going to go to Eaton. That's where Harry went. That's where William went. And George, no sorry, Louis and Archie would be there at the same time. They could potentially be in the same grade or separated by a year. And I guarantee you these two are like our kids are going to get their little British accents. They're going to get their British education. And they are going to be just as popular and famous and beloved as that asshole Williams children. Like that, I think they feel the entitlement to it. And they're like all we need to do is buy four plane tickets and it's ours. I agree with everything you're saying. I think the one the one point I differ on is I do not think Eaton will allow Harry's children to attend or Archie. It's an all boy school. I don't think he will allow it. You know, they educate future kings. You know, Harry wrote wrote a wrote of his time there terribly in spare. Why would he want to send his child there? Again, I thought we were protecting the innocence and privacy of innocent children by moving to America. When the merging didn't work out so well, we began seeing the children, the backs of their heads in slight profile. Now we want to integrate them. Integrating them into the family means their public property to a degree. You have to work with the media. So now they're going to work with the media. I thought the media killed his mother. I thought the royal family tried to kill her. Megan, remember, like, why would you go back to a family that couldn't that cared so little about your wife? They were ready to let her kill herself. I mean, what this does is just put the lie to all the freaking whining that these two have been doing for seven to ten years now. Right. They tried to bully me into committing suicide. They won't protect me or my family from the evil British racist public that wants to kill us. I could never move my family back there because we're not safe. We'll get killed. All of that is by the wayside and the royal families obsessed with skin color. You wanted to know how dark my baby was going to be. What? What? Right. We all saw the theatrics around these lies. And now it's, we're back. Welcome us back. We love it here. And it's about the schools or it's about Trump. That's what they want. So wait, you're going to endanger your wife and your children because of Trump or because you think you can't find a good school in the United States of America. I'm sorry, but we have some of the greatest schools in the world here. Everybody knows that, especially out of fancy Montecito area, some private school out there. Can't do better than some British school. I beg to differ. And by the way, she's like, I'm a California girl and I love this. And I, okay, you know what London is like? Enjoy that. You're going to be there for the next 18 years or 15 while your kids go through the public school. She's going to hate it. She's absolutely going to hate it. So anyway, with all these these behaviors are putting the lie to all the bullshit they've been spending for years. I know. And they're going right back into the lion's maw. I mean, what kind of treatment do they think the British tabloids are going to give them? This is partly why I really do think this is the, we're building the blocks to a divorce announcement. Megan can go for six months. The children get enrolled in boarding school. She can be by coastal. It doesn't really matter. They're in boarding school, nine months out of the year. She takes them on summer vacations, wherever she takes them. You know, she gets, you know, you know, a King Charles. And this is why this is why they should have stripped the titles because if they didn't have the titles, none of this would be on the table. We wouldn't be talking about what damage these wrecking balls can do. They're such destroyers. Wait, what was I say? I totally lost my dream of thought. Wait, I mean, I, well, I have something for you in any event because we only have a couple minutes left. I want to get this said. Last April, she went on with that ridiculous person, Jamie Kern, Lena, um, you know, the hey, they went on attacks like this. And listen to how she described their, their life now, saw 11. Are you in love now more than ever, more than you've ever been? Oh, yeah. I mean, you have to imagine at the beginning, everyone is like butterflies. And then, we immediately went into the trenches together. Yeah. Right out of the gate, like six months into dating. So now seven years later, when you have a little bit of breathing space, you can just enjoy each other in a new way. And that's why I feel like it's more of a honeymoon period for us now. Yeah. Do you think you'll be married forever? Yes. I have a letter. He's also a fox. If you haven't noticed, my husband's very, very handsome. That he's, his heart is even more beautiful. I love that. Oh, my God. Right now. Oh, more than I threw up in my mouth. Of course, to the contrary, that Harry's got a bolt hole in Santa Monica where he smokes weed and plays video game and gets on literal British time. This was the thing I was going to say. That reminded me a King Charles, unlike a King William, will happily cut Meghan Markle any enormous check to go away. And I think she's, I think she would be happy to take it. Yes. But how about that nonsense of finally, we have room to breathe. We were in the trenches. And by that, she means Buckingham Palace, Kensington Palace, Bel moral that we were in the trenches six months later. You are fucking wearing tiaras, the crown jewels, and having a wedding at Westminster Abbey, where the King of England future walked you down the aisle. What, what kind of weird revisionist bullshit history is this? And now finally, we have breathing space. Oh, but we want to go back to where we were being suffocated. We'd like to go back to where they want me to die. They want my children and my and my entire family to be in danger from the racist British public and where we cannot breathe any longer. And it's because of the schools and Trump. I'm wondering, this is perhaps the biggest line of bullshit these two have ever tried to feed us. And we are only left to ask ourselves, why? What is the real reason I'd love to hear from the audience? You can email me Megan at Megan Kelly dot com. I maintain they're not getting enough attention. It really is the South Park thing. We want privacy, which we all know is fake. And no one here gives a shit about royals. We just don't like we'll pay them special homage when they come by for a little visit, like be cool to see William and Kay. We were really nice to Charles because he was really nice to us. But like living amongst us, dated it. We don't give a shit. We don't believe in royalty. We're American. You're not special. And you two are really not special. And especially in Montecito, which has got billionaires and actually accomplished people. And they can't stand it. Maureen, I'm sure you'll have more on this on the nerve this weekend for us. You got it. We this this thing broke last night. And we had a we are original mini was going to be all about someone named Jeff who bombed into our live chat. And every troublemaker myself included believes Jeff Megan was Oprah. Oh my gosh. It's it's it's okay. I do want to hear that. We have to do what we've had to we've had to put that on ice for a moment because we've we've got to address this late like this is the other thing. You're so right about the celebrity part important. You're so right about the celebrity part Megan up until yesterday afternoon Wednesday afternoon. in the biggest celebrity story of the week was Hayden Panatier. Nobody's talking about her anymore. Now we're talking about these two. They know exactly what they're doing. Oh, it's so true. I mean, I'm sorry, but you've got to do it. You've got to rejigger from the others as interested as I am in Oprah, possibly AKA Jeff. This is an all hands on deck situation. We need to get to the bottom of this. Is there a potential separation in the mix? Are we actually finding finally rid of them over here in America? I'll bet no one's happier than the Montecito neighbors who have been probably looking at these two and all the people she's bullied out there. In any event, we will stay on it. As will the nerve. As will Teddy Van Halen, Maureen's right hand reporter on the nerve. He found Stedmond, but possibly just a cardboard cutout more from her over the weekend. And we will be back more here with Kelly's court right after this. When it comes to supplements, there are two things that matter that it works and that you can trust it. Rather than just tell you about relief factor, we often bring you what their real customers have to say. One real customer, Jim, said he ran out of relief factor twice, and both times his aches, stiffness, and pain came right back. Once he restarted it, he says he felt better again. As Jim puts it, quote, you know something's working when you run out of it. They make it easy to find out if you will be the next person telling relief factor about how much it helps you tackle your daily aches and pain. Think about this three weeks, three weeks for just $17.76. So easy. And honestly, relatively inexpensive for relief from chronic pain. Just go to relief factor.com or call 1-800-4 relief. You will connect with their friendly local team and they will do everything they can to help you. And maybe you will be sharing your relief factor story with them soon too. We've got some breaking news in the Carmelo Anthony case that you are not going to believe as we kick off an incredible Kelly's court. We'll have the latest on the death investigation into Hayden Penetier. Is her on again, off again, Boyfriend in potential legal trouble? And the Lindsey Clancy trial is back in session as her supporters are cheering outside the courtroom and all over social media. We'll talk about why, but we're going to kick it off with Carmelo Anthony. And guess who's here in the red studio with me? It's defense attorney, former prosecutor Arthur Eidala. He's host of the Arthur Eidala Power Hour. And two of our MK True Crime Show hosts, Dave Aaron Berg and Ashley Merchant joined me via the Transome, the magic of satellites. Go and subscribe to their twice a week show that they host along with our pal Phil Holloway by going to MK True Crime dot com. Find it on YouTube. Just go into the podcast button on your phone and type in MK True Crime and you will follow them if you hit subscribe. Guys, welcome back. Great to see you. Dave and Ashley and great to have you here in studio. What a thrill. This is the room where it happens. Guys, I'm in Ashley when the room where it happens. I am jealous. I'm not going to lie. I am jealous. I want to be there in the party. Are there's not going to be so thrilled in about five minutes when the heat of my studio starts to kick in? That's fun. I am thrilled because I get to spend time with your husband. That's sweet. That's always a fun time. Doug is a good man. All right. Guys, great to see you. This is, we got to start with Carmelo Anthony because just as I was talking about Meghan Markle, holy cow. The update in this case is genuinely stunning. Okay. My papers are everywhere. Well, he's basically I know what it is. I just want to find dreams about stabbing people and licking the blood off the knife. So excited. Be quiet. Here. Let me tell you what it actually is. Okay. Daily mails Mary Ann Martinez reporting because they're in court this morning on Carmelo Anthony on the defense motion to get him a retrial, a new trial saying that there had been a gentleman's agreement that we weren't going to do character evidence at this trial and the prosecution somehow violated that by making some passing reference to like what Austin Metcalf like to do or what Carmelo Anthony like to do for fun. It was just it was such a hail Mary by the defense, but something big happened in court this morning when the prosecutor got up and did not deny that there was a gentleman's agreement to not go to the character place on either the accused Carmelo Anthony who stabbed and killed Austin Metcalf at a track meet for absolutely nothing. Austin told him he had to leave Austin's teams tent and Carmelo Anthony instantly stabbed him or Austin Metcalf. They both sides agreed we're not going to do character evidence on either the defendant or the decedent and the prosecutor got up there and said we did have such an agreement. But let me tell you what we would have introduced had we gone there. It would have been like because now the defense is like we should have been able to do that. We're going to do that. You know, we could have talked about what a bad person Austin Metcalf was and he's like how about Carmelo Anthony the actual defendant. Here's what I had in my back pocket. He says first of all come Carmelo Anthony's girlfriend Valeria would have testified that that she went to school the morning of the stabbing April 2nd 2025 and she told school officials that she had she told school officials that she had broken up with Carmelo Anthony and that he was stalking her. So this had happened that morning one hour later Austin Metcalf was dead according to the prosecutor. Clearly painting a picture of this kid, you know, so called Carmelo Anthony who was a hot head who was angry that morning in some level of emotional distress and turmoil already at the time he showed up at the track me it's starting to come together that hair trigger he had. But here's the real headline. So first of all, he texted the girlfriend. I'm low key on the verge. He texted her the morning of the stabbing the verge of what we're not sure exactly. However, the prosecutor says Anthony had a history of violence and that he wanted to stab someone quote, there is a text message where he fantasizes about stabbing someone and licking the blood off the blade. He said of Anthony, he was obsessed with starting fights said the prosecutor and he was prepared to prove that revealing Anthony had previously been taken by his parents to a special program at LSU for kids who cannot keep their hands to themselves. He went on to say, let's see, there was one of the things suggesting that there was, oh yeah, there was previous aggressive behavior and text messages about a knife in particular that came out a little bit after. So all of this is deeply disturbing and would not have helped Carmelo Anthony at all Arthur. So what what do you make of it? Well, first of all, this this type of evidence usually only comes out if the defendant's going to testify. You can't, unless it's absolutely relevant. Now, maybe the part about the girlfriend going that day because that's relevant, right? That's within hours of this happening. That may have come out, but it didn't. And I mean, that's his thing. The difference between a jury and a judge, a judge at this point, you could let it all hang out and Megan. I mean, I think you hail Mary is what you the term used, I would say a miracle. In other words, they made a passing reference to him being not a nice kid, but they really had a tremendous amount of ammunition. He kills the guy with a knife and they have text message of him dreaming of stabbing some with a knife and then lick in the blood off his blade. I mean, this case is not going anywhere. And it's and it's a new judge, right? They wanted the judge recuse. He wasn't going to be fair and impartial. Good. I'm happy. There's a new judge with a clean slate. And he I'm sure this judge is going to be like, okay, I think everything went well at the try. Yes, exactly because it seems like a no brainer that, you know, this Carmelo Anthony just not deserve a new trial. This is the new judge. They got rid of the old judge because he gave an interview to the press Dave and made all sorts of statements of like, I think my ruling on allowing them to strike those black jurors was correct. I think the jury verdict was correct and was saying a bunch of stuff that it's very rare that we see a judge give interviews like that. And the defense made the most of it and said you need to recuse. He wouldn't he didn't recruit recuse. He got bounced off of hearing these motions by an independent judge that they brought in to evaluate the motion. And now the judge has been bounced. But the new judge doesn't exactly seem like a softy Dave. He's lifelong Republican. They don't tend to be softies on the bench. He also was very well respected when he was on the bench. He only retired in 2020. And he's got some history of actually increasing sentences when they come back around before him. So I'm not sure they're going to like the new judge anymore than they like the old judge. What do you make all this breaking news? Yeah, be careful what you wish. We care for what you wish for. You know, you got the new judge, same as the old judge, right? It's this is guys going to be great tough. I do think it was the right decision to bounce the old judge because he did give a press interview where he said that he thought the jury got it right with the guilty verdict. Okay, well, the standard is whether it creates a reasonable expectation of bias or an appearance of partiality. And yeah, when you're asking for a new trial when the judge is already pre-judged it, it's good to get a new judge. And that's good for appeal. So they can't keep this going on any longer because the evidence overwhelming against Carmella Anthony. And when they say, well, we had a deal with the prosecutors not to put on evidence about the character of Carmella Anthony and all this other stuff. And then that's why we didn't put on our client, Carmella Anthony, because if we had, then the prosecutors said they were going to go after for him for character. Well, now we know the real reason why they didn't put Carmelo Anthony on the stand. It wasn't because of a deal with prosecutors. It's because they had some smoking gun evidence about his text and his fight with his girlfriend. That's exactly it. Well said, that all this bullshit, Ashley, of like, well, we had a gentleman's agreement and, you know, once we realized the prosecution wasn't going to, wasn't going to honor it, we couldn't put him on the stand. Oh, and by the way, they said we only had 10 minutes to decide whether to put Carmelo on the stand. And the prosecutor actually is featured in this report by CBS Texas. I'm going to play it quickly, sought 49 on whether that's true too. Listen to this is aired on July 20th. Howard's new affidavit says he was 99% sure before the trial that Anthony would testify. He blames part of the reason he didn't on being rustling the closed door hearing and the judge declining to extend our time beyond 10 minutes. But the trial transcript shows that behind closed doors, the judge gave Anthony a lengthy explanation of his rights and that the defense had more than a half hour beyond that to consider their next move. Even allowing Anthony to consult with his parents before telling the judge, I don't want to testify. Did you think you had ample time to talk to your lawyers about that and got feedback from them? Feedback from your family. You have had enough time to make that decision. Anthony replied, yes, sir, we did. What was your reaction to seeing this affidavit? I was surprised and I was disappointed and frankly a little confused. I mean, I was there for every minute of the trial and Bill Wersky in our prosecution team. They conducted this case so fairly and cleanly and professionally. Go ahead. Megan, this is so clear they wanted a door number three and there was no door number three. And that happens a lot. I mean, he wanted a door where he could testify in none of this evidence would come in. That's not possible. No matter how you spin it, no matter how many gentlemen's agreements you have, how you try to wiggle it. If he took the stand, this evidence was going to come in and this evidence was going to sink him. And that's why he didn't take the stand. And I guarantee you they didn't have 10 minutes to talk about this. I guarantee you they've been talking about this for a year because the first thing you do, if you're a defense lawyer, if you're going to look at this and you're going to say, oh my god, my client has made statements like this, has made threats with a knife. I mean, he had a prior school incident where he had been quasi suspended from school. I mean, he had been taken to this treatment facility, I guess, for kids who couldn't keep their hands to themselves. I mean, all of these things are things that would come up if Carmella Anthony took the stand. And any defense lawyer would know that there's a huge risk that's going to come out. And it's going to be highly relevant. And they wanted a door number three and there was no door number three. So they had to make a choice. They don't like that choice. And now they're trying to go back because they want to try again with another choice. And that's not how it works. >> Just a little bit more from that first report that I was reading about what happened in court came from the Daily Mail. This is from CBS, Texas. And their reporting is similar, but adds a little bit of a new element where they say the morning, this is from the prosecutor, Bill Worsky. He said, a lot of people have asked why Carmella Anthony took a knife to attract me. Those reasons were captured in our 404 motion about allowing in prior bad acts by the defendant. The morning of the stabbing, his ex-girlfriend goes to an assistant principal saying she broke up Carmelo and he was stalking her. Anthony, there's an Anthony text message saying, I'm on the verge, the morning before the stabbing, and emphasized and that he emphasized something. It's disjointed this report. But then this reporter says, he also threatened her with a knife. He threatened the girlfriend with a knife in one message and told her in another when I stab someone, I'm going to lick their blood off the blade. So it seems like he might have made a specific threat to the girlfriend, which is why she's in reporting it to the principal. Yeah. And you know, Megan, every, this case, honestly, and I know you kind of agree with this was a no brainer, right? I mean, he stabs his kid in the chest for basically no reason. And all this, and none of us are happy when a young person like Carmella Anthony is now going to spend his, basically his life in prison, but it makes you feel more comfortable about what really happened here. I mean, and this stuff, if you testify, I don't care about gentlemen. There's no gentlemen's agreement. There's offended testifies, you know, this is what that, I mean, look, this is a different location than Manhattan on Brooklyn where I practice, but it's the rules of evidence. And if I'm the prosecutor, I'm going to do everything I can to get that in. I'm going to bust my butt to argue to the judge, why is this relevant? It has to go to his mindset that day. This isn't read, this isn't from five years ago. This is right there. And then the girlfriend, she's report, she's, her fear is so heightened that she's reporting into authorities. That is something. If I'm a juror, I want to know that that this kid on that particular day, he had hate in his heart. I mean, that's, I mean, he was itching for a fight and more than just a fight. I mean, Sarah Fields who's been doing great reporting on this, she reports, my multiple sources have been telling me there is so much more about Carmella Anthony behavior, text on his phone that go back for years. I mean, Dave, we need to see this because the, the Austin Metcass family is still being harassed by these lunatics down there who thinks somehow their dead son is to blame for going over to Carmella Anthony and saying, you need to leave this tent. This is for our team. Yeah. But the fact that they've made so much noise and are claiming that they didn't get a fair shake and they didn't do judge. It does open the door for all this stuff to come out at least in the court of public opinion because to think that this was somehow self defense. Now we know why he brought the knife to the track meet and we know it's not self defense. This was not a spontaneous act. This was something a guy who was a ticking time bomb and they had a scrap, a disagreement. And at worst, it should have been like a pushing fight, which it was. Instead, he brought a knife into it. And so there is no sympathy for him. Our author is right. We don't want to say young people go to prison for life, but he took the life of another person and destroyed a family. And now that family is also being dragged through the mud. So it's important for the truth to come out. Yes. Actually, the, the report, again, back to the Daily Mail's Mary and Martinez is that Metcass mom is almost in tears in this courtroom this morning with eyes closed as the prosecutor is talking about how there was almost a shooting at her house leading up to the trial and how the Metcalfs were doxed multiple times. The victims are being treated like they're the perpetrators. And I really think, I mean, who knows? But like the public release of who Carmelo Anthony really was is overdue. There's no reason. I mean, I guess the prosecutors are trying to preserve his the case pending appeal, getting final rulings and all that, right? Is that what other reason would there be no release that it's really interesting that you bring that point out because that's one thing that's really kind of bothered me about this the entire time. They did a lot of stuff in secret. So these 404 B motions is what we call him as lawyers. And it's just it's, you know, trying to keep out prejudicial evidence. So evidence that maybe Carmelo had been in fights before. Essentially, the government wants to bring that in, the defense wants to keep it out. And so you file these things called 404 B motions. Well, typically they're filed. It's a public filing. I mean, things that are filed in the court docket is public. Typically, these hearings are held publicly. In this case, they didn't file them in the court stocket. The judge kept them and they had these hearings sort of in secret. And so, you know, as a member of the public, that really bothers me. What's interesting though is Carmelo Anthony is trying to use that to get a new trial, but it actually benefited him because the things that were in these motions are all of these prior bad acts. You know, the prior instances of violence or prior instances where maybe he was stalking his girlfriend or he was making these heated texts, you know, whatever happened at the school that we still don't know about, but maybe by five o'clock today, we'll know about, you know, whatever led for him to go to this program at LSU. All of this stuff is probably in those motions. And so the court was really protecting him this whole time. But yet, while the court was trying to protect him and keep all this secret, the internet was able to make up all these false narratives and really spin this in a way that's just it's awful what's happened. I mean, even the lawyers have been threatened, you know, both sides that offense the state. And I don't think that that was really ever anybody's intention. But I think if the world had really known the truth from the beginning, that maybe we wouldn't be where we are here today. Here's the other thing, Arthur, that we found this out yesterday. Back to Sarah Fields, she found this and actually Carmelo's lawyers, affidavit, his trial attorney, Michael Howard submitted an affidavit about an off the record agreement. This gentleman's agreement he allegedly have with the prosecutors and so on. So this comes from Carmelo's side. And he writes in sentencing in reliance upon this agreement, the defense did not designate an expert who was ready to testify regarding mitigation on behalf of Carmelo. Like, don't give him a really mean sentence because all these terrible things happened to him when he was a child. And so you should feel bad for him. And so this is what he is now arguing, saying because of this gentleman's agreement, we did not bring up a character witness to offer mitigation. And so the defense severely limited its available character witnesses to just three questions of Mr. Anthony's mother. But here's what I'm getting to. He writes, other than general character testimony and please for mercy in reliance upon that agreement, the defense also did not go into substantial family violence. Mr. Anthony had witnessed and had been a victim of in his own home. Now, I'm sorry, but these parents of his. Yeah, I know. Right. I've been all over the news trying to paint the Metcalfs and the the poor dead Austin as a racist with no evidence. How many times have we seen this Mr. George Floyd all of the way after he died all of a sudden was the saint George Floyd. People who had never dealt with them, dealt with his mental illness, dealt with his addiction, all of a sudden they were there and his brother. I mean, this is, it's like a script. And I'll answer your question, but the sad part and I'll ask you the question. If both of these kids were white or both of these kids were black, would it be more than a one-day story? Maybe. It wouldn't be this big, but I mean, a kid for apparently no reason. No, I don't know. I know. I know. I know. I know. And another kid said that is a big story. Yeah, but it so obvious would happen. This wasn't a who'd done it. No. Right? It was like, what happened? And they really, they really wasn't a bright. They really wasn't much of a why. I mean, could you leave the tent? I'm going to stab you in the heart. So I don't, I don't, this is foreign to me. When you're doing this, right? So someone gets convicted of murder. I don't care if you're 12 years old or are 112 years old. Of course, you put your best foot forward. Yes, if they put forward, he had these dreams of licking blood off a knife, but you know that the kid got beaten as a kid Carmelo Anthony. Let's say his father abused his mother of father abused him. He was sexually, you got to put all of that out there and just throw it all on the judges lap and say, look, judge, here's the good. And here's the bed. And here we are. Why would you hold that back? I think you didn't do it because the parents probably didn't want him to do it. But those parents were enjoying being seen as saints, David Ashley. They were out there with their little weird press guy who was throwing the race card and everybody's face based on nothing. And they wanted to look like, oh, we're the grieving parents. We're the ones who have lost something. Meanwhile, they took the go fund me money and it appears that they spent it on some $900,000 rental and blew a lot of that cash. And I'm sure they didn't want it coming out. It's no accident. Ashley only now is Carmelo's lawyer saying, geez, I only asked the mother three questions on mitigation. Then it wasn't it's all the mean prosecutors fault that I didn't get into the fact that he had been so that he did not go into substantial family violence he had witnessed and had been a victim of in his home home in his own home. He's saying that there was somebody was beating somebody up inside that home and Carmelo Anthony was one of the people who got beaten up by who the sweet loving parents. Exactly. So so Megan, you know me. So this won't surprise you at all. As soon as I saw that Mr, you know, that I don't even know for the same as Mr. Anthony, but his father did not testify. I immediately started running his records immediately. And I was curious, why did they move to Texas from Louisiana? You know, the the allegation was they were trying to get away from something bad. Well, he has a substantial record. He's got lots of issues, lots of cases open in Louisiana. He's got, you know, where he's had probation that hasn't been finished, you know, just different things. Nothing super serious on the record, but lots of little cases, lots of involvement with law enforcement, lots of involvement with the court system. So it didn't surprise me at all. And I assumed immediately that's why this man did not testify in defense of his son. I certainly didn't know that it rose the level of PTSD, but immediately when he didn't testify, I thought, okay, there's something that they want to hide. Well, why are they trying to hide that? Because it would help Carmelo. If he abused Carmelo, that would help him in mitigation. And that potentially could help, yeah, it could help his self-defense too. I mean, if you know, if they had an expert that says, well, he was beaten. And so, you know, he was more of quick to defend himself that could have potentially helped. Yeah. They didn't do any of that. So I think you're right that they did it for money. Because if they had done that, the donations are going to dry up, you know, why else would you not have that out? What other reason could there be Dave Aaronberg? What if you're talking about saving this kid's life? He's just been convicted by a jury of murder. And you're the defense lawyer? Aren't you? It was shocking how little mitigation he attempted. It was shocking that they had the mother on the stand. I think one of the questions was like, was he sorry? And she's like, yeah, he was sorry. Yeah, he was, that's it. Like, there was no mitigation. Why wouldn't you any normal parent would be like, even if it weren't true? Most of us would be like, I beat him. I beat him. I drew the kid up. Whatever I have said, you know, and like, it's like she didn't go there. And now we're learning a lot. Yeah, it's like criminal defense 101 when the parklam massacre happened. You remember the killer who slaughtered 17 innocents in Marjorie Stone Douglas High School, one of his defenses at the penalty phase of the trial was that his mother smoked while he was in the womb. So this is like, oh my god. I mean, this is like sort of my mom. I explain a lot. Yeah, my mom will be drunk when I was in there. And that would explain a lot too. That's my mom's defense was never in the first three months. Yeah. After that, you have a glass of red wine once a week. Everything about my SAT score. Keep going. Sure, though. No, I funny how all of our mothers did that. But yes, it this in areas right for bringing up and penalty phases and mitigation. But it's interesting, you know, all this stuff comes out now that they had a deal that wasn't honored. It wasn't brought up during the trial. In fact, the judge kept asking the defense lawyer, okay, or we all good? There's no nothing, no deals or anything. Everyone is happy with each other. And there was none of this stuff brought up during the trial. Only after the result was bad. Now it's like, okay, now we have to complain about this. And also there are at least 600,000 reasons not to besmirch the parents. That's the amount of money that the parents raised from the gifts and go fundraising operation by the time of the trial. So that every reason not to bring their names up, because they were raising a lot of money. And there are a lot of questions of where that money went. Man, can I just ask my colleagues here, because I'm primarily in the Tri-State area, and you're in Florida and Georgia. Like, do you guys have these handshake agreements with prosecutors? Like, all right, I won't do this in a murder case. Maybe if it's a Dewey or something like that. But I mean, that just doesn't exist in my world. >> No, that does not exist. We put everything on the record. We would have it in writing. There is no way I would have my entire defense based on some backdoor gentleman's agreement that wasn't even ironed out. I would have very specific things. That's ridiculous. >> How about you, Dave? You're just in the business of prosecuting people. >> For 12 years, when I was state attorney, no, our office would not have entered into some side deals with defense lawyers. You do that. And that is just, you're risking having your conviction overturned on appeal. You're also risking the reputation of your office because there's inevitably going to be disputes. You didn't live up to that because once the defense loses, they're going to point to something in that deal and say, you're the problem because they don't like to admit that they're the problem. So, what Cameroa Anthony should do is that realize he's not going to get a new trial and then do his direct appeals. And on his appeals, do an ineffective assistance of counsel claim. Blame your lawyers. Maybe that's his best shot of getting out of prison. >> Yeah. No, it's true. I was shocked to see the prosecutor admitting. We did have this agreement. It's like, why would you do that? What do you, what, what has he put, like, we're kind of ripping on this whole thing. But like, is there a chance that this judge won't see it as a hell? >> I don't think, I don't think the prosecutor had the, had they had this gentleman's agreement that the prosecutor's admitting they had and they introduced the evidence of the dream with the licking the blood off the knife. But I don't, they didn't breach the agreement to such a degree that it changed the facts of the case, right? There's something called harmless error. So, was this, I mean, the facts of this case are indisputable, indisputed. So, it's, it wasn't like, oh, we didn't know if he was going to be guilty or not guilty on a knife's edge. And this one little thing that the prosecutor said that he said, he shouldn't have said, is what made the verdict happen. It's just, again, it goes back to our harmless, harmless error analysis. >> Yeah, I see it as the defense took a gamble on this agreement, which does sound like it was kind of a good agreement for the defense. >> Yeah, all this stuff doesn't come in. >> I don't know why the prosecutor wouldn't fight to put that in. >> I mean, it's a me, this prosecutor was like, I'm going to get in a conviction with it without this, as well make it as bullet proof as I can. But so, but the defense agreed to it. And only now do they want another bite at the apple because that now with the benefit of 2020 hindsight, they say, oh, it didn't work. It didn't work out. So, I'm just going to say whatever I agreed to was, was a problem. And it was a little funky. So, maybe I'll get a judge to say this was too funky for me. And it's a murder trial song. I'm reversing this, but I agree. I don't think that's what's going to happen here. I think the judges could say, no, retrial for you. All right. I want to move on because we talked a bit about, was there domestic violence inside the Carmelo Anthony home? Well, there was domestic violence inside Hayden Pennettier's home by this disgusting boyfriend. I mean, this is the guy is the lowest of the low. I cannot believe and I'm so sad that this woman spent a big portion of the last six, seven years with this guy. They met in 2018 by 2019. He was abusing her by 2020. There was a criminal case against him. And he, he would, he, I can't remember right now whether he was found guilty or pleaded guilty. Either way, there was a guilty result. He was convicted of punching her in the face. The police saw her right after. There was no question that it happened. He's admitted to it some jail time, some probation and reportedly a five-year restraining order, which neither one of them lived up to. She invited him back into her life. This is a pattern many domestic violence survivors are familiar with. And now the reporting on this case has just come out that the DEA is now involved in this investigating where those drugs came from that she reportedly had like a suitcase full of drugs with her that there's a new report out today that three months ago when she was on her media tour, like, it's my victory moment. I'm together now. She was doing drugs then that she tried to order whippets. She was doing weird drugs. Nitrous oxide. Yeah. I mean, isn't that what you get at the dentist? Yeah, that's like my school stuff. Yeah, when you you'd put it in the middle of the video. a balloon and almost like sucking a helium. I mean, I'll talk like this. Yeah. And it lasts for like six months. I know. It's a 60 second. I think we're too old. We're not the right demo, but clearly making it to your point. You know, my law partner is retired judge, John Levin thought he was the first domestic violence judge in the United States of America, 25 years, 30 years ago now, where we didn't really know domestic violence because common sense with dictate if anyone punches you in the face, you're not really going to hang it. Maybe it's your brother or your sister, but besides that, you're going to get away, especially if it means like a lot of women get trapped because of the finances, right? They can't leave. There's a child, right. There's a child and the finances and, but there is a psychological aspect to this where you get that like this locked in and sometimes the women's snap and we have created a defense to murder, quote, battered woman syndrome. There's a whole TV series called snapped. Right. Yeah, I've been on it. I have. I'm like, well, not me, but my client has been on it. But yes, and it looks like that's what happened here. This woman had the means. She had the means to escape, but I guess it's the combination of the domestic violence PTSD and then the drug addiction sadly tragically led to her death. Yes. Okay. Now Debbie Murphy tells me via Web MD, whipits or nitrous oxide are popular in hailing drugs. You may also hear them referred to as whipits or whipits. It's the same thing. The drug gets its name from whipped cream aerosol canisters that people open to misuse the gas inside nitrous oxide cuts off oxygen to the brain, creating a euphoric high that lowers your mental and physical pain. All right. So I'm still not clear on how it differs from like what they give you at the dentist. But okay, I've never had it at my dentist, but I once I've told my eyes, once I had a laser done on my knees, Ashley, you appreciate this. You know, when you age, your knees, your skin starts to sag around your, oh, yeah, yeah. And I didn't want to get sagging skin on my knees. So I had this laser procedure done. And they gave me the nitrous oxide. So two things. The nitrous oxide only works very briefly. It works like 15 seconds. And secondly, that laser procedure worked, man, because the knees look so good after like, what would you not to say about you getting your knees laser? Yeah. Why not? She called me a stupid jackass. She said it on me. Never said it not me. I'm just saying there's only time I have a nitrous oxide, which I think is what you had. Anyway, whatever, I digress. So now the DEA is involved. And this to me spells serious trouble for this boyfriend who was with her, along with his brother, when she died. And by the way, the reporting yesterday, we didn't do a show on this yesterday was that they didn't call 911 to report that Hayden was there dead until 150 in the afternoon and Brian, the boyfriend was still asleep. Yeah, it was the brother reports. Okay. So you're asleep at two o'clock in the afternoon. You're doing the drugs too in my opinion. That's what's likely to come out. And you tell me whether Dave, the DEA getting involved in this telegraphs, yeah, federal charges may be under consideration. Yeah. Look what happened in Matthew Perry. The DEA got involved there because they're going to go find the source of the drugs. It used to be the long-forcent officers would just okay. It's another drug abuser who's died now a day, days we look at the chain and try to find the ones who sold them the drugs. The problem is a lot of people who are in the throes of addiction have a number of drug dealers on speed dial. So it can be tough, but now you have the boyfriend who is involved and he's got a criminal past. He's got a rap sheet. And so I think there's a lot more to it. I don't think this will be the end of this investigation. And one more thing, Megan, maybe you wouldn't have had sagging ease if your mom hadn't smoked during pregnancy. Once again, back to my mother's decisions. I mean, most of us born in the seventies have a picture with our mothers. No, they're big. Well, he's like resting in a martini glass. Yeah, exactly. So you tell me, Ashley, would you be worried? I feel like this guy's defense attorney who represented him in his domestic violence cases is probably calling him saying, keep your mouth shut. Oh, yeah. Don't talk to the feds. He's don't be helpful. Definitely. And there was a report just yesterday that cops were seen. They're now, I guess he and the brother are reportedly not staying with their mother, like their family of origin, Betty Ellison. And yesterday at eight, 20 in the morning, page six of the near post reporting exclusively that cops were seen sniffing around the home. They came, they knocked. Nobody answered, although people were inside. They left. They were reportedly conducting a quote, welfare check. And then I think they went back and did it again. So they're definitely sniffing around. Oh, yeah. If I was Brian, the boyfriend, I would be really worried. I'd first be worried about his brother. So his brother, Zach is a preacher and has apparently had, you know, strong feelings for Hayden in his life. Whether or not they dated, there's been some rumors about that. But the reports are that he was just distraught when they found her. So if he cared for her that much and if he thinks his brother had something to do with her death, I'd be really worried about the police talking to him from a defense perspective. I'd also be worried about the DEA poking around because they are, they're strong. And the DEA, when they start asking questions, people start talking, people get real scared. And so if he gave her these drugs, he had to get him from somewhere. He didn't make them, you know, he got him from somewhere and folks are willing to talk when the feds come knocking. I wouldn't be as worried about the state charges because most likely he probably was using the drugs, whether I mean, like you said, he was sleeping till noon. And there's actually defense in Tennessee State Court. If they had their own statute, that you can be prosecuted if someone dies, oh, I'm sorry, yeah. And so in South Carolina, they've got a statute where you can be prosecuted if someone dies while, you know, they basically taken drugs that you gave them. But if you did it together, that's a defense. So, you know, he might have to defend to that. So crazy. But the feds, I'd be really worried about. That's so wacky. If you don't shoot yourself up too or take the drugs as well, you just have to get out of jail. It's a weird concept. And so here's, here's the report from TMZ this morning, Arthur. Police are not satisfied. Hayden Penetiers' death was a tragic overdose of prescribed meds because they are trying to determine if there could be criminal conduct behind it on enforcement sources. Involved in the case, tell TMZ, they are conducting a death investigation to see if some illegality is behind her death. They said, oh, yeah, Wednesday, they went to the family home of her boyfriend Brian Hickerson. It would appear police want information from Brian regarding any circumstance that might be connected to her death. And then, you know, my team went through and there's a bunch of possible charges that could be brought federally, which would explain the DEA's interest in all of this. If Brian Hickerson provided the drugs, I mean, the person who the assistant who was getting the drugs from Matthew Perry got ultimately sentenced to 41 months in prison. But that's a great example of how it's kind of easier to find who gets the drugs. What Dave said is right on a lot of these guys, you know, I'm fortunate I've been involved with deceased families as well. They want answers, right? And then when you eventually get into their phone, there's like eight numbers. There's 10 numbers. And yes, you try to go back and see, but then how do you prove? Well, the drugs he got from John on Tuesday. And then he got drugs from Jose on Wednesday. How do you know which drugs he took and which ones had fentanyl and which ones didn't have fentanyl. So as a prosecutor, Dave can tell you, it's very hard to eventually prosecute someone with Perry. It was, it was that all of those different drug dealers were going through one person, right? There was a bottleneck and it went through them and you were able to much more easily prove he's the guy who actually handed them the drugs. But I get to tell you me like, I don't know if I might ask Ashley and Dave overdosing on Whippets is like not something I don't even think I don't even think it's possible, isn't it? Yeah, I mean, it was a brain damage before death. The report about that may ingestion or attempted ingestion of drugs that it was both Whippets and alcohol, which she also shouldn't have been having if she was a recovering alcoholic as she was portraying. So it was multiple attempts to imbibe something, some sort of substance to, you know, get a high at the time when she was on this book tour, what were you going to say to him? Yeah. The guy who was the assistant to Matthew Perry, Iwamasa, his name, he didn't just arrange for the drugs. He injected Perry with the fatal doses. Then he left and he found Perry dead in the hot tub and he tried to cover it up. So his fingerprints were all over this mess and he played guilty. Not sure. But don't you think you this guy could go down if we have no proof whatsoever of this, but if he did give her the drugs, even if there wasn't an injection situation. Yeah, he enabled if he was able to hand the drugs to her, yes, he could go down for it. They would need proof. And then you have the brother, perhaps testifying against his brother, and especially if he was in love with her as Ashley mentioned. So I, this is a very interesting situation that I think you will see some charges down the road. But, but Arthur and I identified the problem if you're going to identify the source, if you're going to track the source, there are so many potential sources, it's easier to get right at the bottleneck, the brother or the, the boyfriend who would have been there to give her the drug. All right, stand by. We're going to take a quick break, but we have more to do. And then we got to hit on Lindsay Clancy more with our Kelly's court team after this. 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Take 10 minutes to get covered today with life insurance through ethos. Get your free quote at ethos.com/mk. That is ethos.com/mk. Application times may vary. Rates may vary too. (upbeat music) Joining me now, Dave, Aaron Berg, Ashley Merchant, and Arthur Idol. I'm trying to find a note, which is why I'm distracted here. On the Hayden-Penetier thing, just before we move on from that, did you guys see the reports of her mother and what the mother said after her death this week? Now, her mother has emerged as like a villain in this whole thing. She sounds like she was a terrible mother. First of all, you shove your kid into Hollywood as a baby, and thereafter. It's such a terrible decision, and it's so harmful to the child. It just seems like recklessness. So now her daughter was on camera and on the record in her book saying, I went to my mom when I was 19. She was 36 when she died this week, and said, "Mom, you can't be both my manager and my mother. "Would you please just be my mother?" And the mother's response according to Hayden was, "You owe me." - Wow. - And wouldn't let go of the money role. And now her name is Leslie Vogel. She was a middling soap opera star in her day, which is, she didn't make it, so she wanted the daughter to make it. - Oh, yeah, by cariously living. - Yeah, recover her lost glory. So here she shares her first public comments to NBC after Hayden died, and this is what she said. I mean, it's really crazy. This is, as Debbie Murphy put it to me, this sounds like something my door man would say about me if I died, like this is how detached it was. I think Hayden was an amazingly talented person in so many departments, and I think young people who grow up in the entertainment industry, it is a struggle, and it is a very challenging industry, and it's not unusual for them to sadly find the wrong path. - What? - Is she on drugs? - Like herself? - Oh my God. - Yeah, right. That's what she said. She said that her last conversation was in October that they'd been texting a bit, but not in some time. No contact was a choice I made for very specific reasons. And you know, certainly not for lack of care, concern, or love. She said she wish things could have been different. I think it becomes very difficult to be true to yourself. I think Hayden sadly lost her way. And I wish it were different. Yeah, like that you hadn't been her mother. - Oh my God. - She did go on to say, she ripped on Brian. That was her other contribution. I wonder if we can all agree on that. He was a terrible person to have in Hayden's life. This person in her life that we've been trying to get rid of for quite some time was with her at her death. That was Brian Hegerson. There's a lot of history in the past that Brian has enabled Hayden many times. And this is why her father and I had been concerned for a long time about him. By the way, there's another report out today about this is a witness who lived next to Hayden who said that she saw the stretcher making Hayden out. This is I think back a couple of years ago. Not that long ago, maybe like 2025. - She said she was clearly terrified. You could see the look in her eyes. She was clearly battered. You could see, I guess she had some bruising or something, she identified her as being battered and she said she could see she was really scared. And it's not like she slipped off of a ladder and like bumped her head and it would take her. There were real issues. - And this is during the time where that restraining order would have been in place. So they were both obviously willingly violating it. But can I just tell you guys one other thing. So Yashar Ali, who is a great reporter, he went back and found the statement that the mother made after her memoir hit in May. And it's even worse than the one I just read. She says, there's a personality style which manifests as a need for control entitlement and a lack of empathy. She's not speaking of herself. She's speaking of regard. - Wow. - The major fear is that someone will see through the mask that they present to the world and discover who they truthfully are. This condition cannot be fixed, regardless of continual efforts to support or comfort. No matter the encouragement given, it will never be enough. And now listen to this. After 20 years of trauma, I took the advice of professionals and chose the no contract, contact route. This is the mother saying she's been traumatized by 20 years from Hayden. So what? From 16 to 36, from all the time she was a huge star. The child traumatized the mother. - Oh my gosh. - She says, as many parents of entertainment children know, we are all too familiar with the painful observation of watching the self-destructive paths they sometimes choose. No parent hopes for this scenario. Totally no responsibility for the fact that she put her in the industry, but she was a baby doing commercials one more. Sadly, this is not, sadly, this is out of our control. You cannot save someone who does not want to be saved. Radical acceptance is the most difficult challenge any parent must embrace. Unfortunately, I've spent a great deal of such, I've seen a great deal of such in my life experience. I guess she's referring to her 20 years of trauma caused by her rich, famous daughter who only wanted a mother, Ashley, and couldn't get one. - Didn't want her mother to run her career and do that, just wanted her to be a mother. I mean, she's got to feel some responsibility, but it doesn't sound like she's taking any responsibility at this point. What a disgusting pig. I'm so sorry. - That's what she said. - We're written on our bombs. - For a couple of cigarettes, while they were pregnant with us, this is actual abusiveness. Like, this is actual abuse, this kind of emotional abuse. - Look, I'm destroyed about the loss of my drugs against the natural order to lose your child. - I love her. - And I miss any of that in there. - Megan, this was a prepared statement. This wasn't spontaneous. She had time to think about this and issue this. - No, she gave an interview to NBC and just went off on how tough it was, I guess for her, when Hayden was still alive and how, you know, this arm's length like, geez, it's a tough business. She wasn't able to get it back under control. It's like, no wonder this girl turned to drugs. You know, that's my takeaway. All right, let's keep going. - Maybe she had bad knees. - You know, I could have helped her out. Should have called me out. - That's what she needed the way to play. - One time was enough for that procedure though. I mean, like, one time was plenty. They hurt. Okay, Lindsey Clancy. Arthur and I were just talking about this during the break. Everyone knows you have to be nuts. You have to be nuts on some level to kill your children. Like, that's basically what the defense has going for it, right? Isn't that the number one thing the defense has going for it? - Yeah. - And she loved her kids. - Only a crazy person would kill their children, right? So how does the prosecution overcome that? Let me start with you, Dave, on that question. - I think the prosecution overcharged, I think they should have focused on unless they're charged in voluntary manslaughter. If you overcharge, you lose credibility with the jury. It's gonna be so hard to convict her a first degree, premeditated murder, especially because they have medical experts that say, yes, sometimes she was lucid. And you can be lucid even when you're under the throes of psychosis. But I would focus on some of the things that the prosecution has pointed out. And I would lean into that. So for example, if Lindsey Clancy was completely consumed by this postpartum psychosis, then why was her first question when she woke up on the hospital about getting herself legal representation? Not about our kids, right? Not about anguish over their deaths. And so I would try to poke holes in the defenses, narrative that here's this poor woman who couldn't control herself. She was under all these drugs and psychosis. And you say, well, after the fog cleared, she didn't ask about our kids. She didn't seem to caught up about it, except when she's in front of you, the jurors here at trial. So I would try to do that. But in the end, I think the prosecution has a tough case. I think they overcharged. I'd be surprised if they can get a conviction even of a lesser charge. >> The other thing is Ashley, she sent the husband out. She sent him to the CVS and to the restaurant to pick up food for the family. It seemed calculated she had Googled how long the trip would take. She seemed like a methodical killer, getting rid of the one eyewitness who would stop it, and that she was determined to sort of lay the plan out. And then there was testimony this week from somebody in the facility with her, where she's being held, saying the one date, like the dates that she never acknowledges are her children's birthdays. She seemed absolutely fine on each one of their, what would have been their birthdays, having really good, strong days where she was kind of enjoying herself. And like, doesn't seem to miss them. >> But one of the things that I think is important to remember is that she's medicated. So like Dave's talking about what she says when she first wakes up. She's intubated at that point. She is heavily sedated at that point. And now when she is in this psychiatric facility, she is on a lot of medication. I guarantee she is on a lot of medication. And it dulls her. And so anytime, her reaction to maybe her children's birthday, I'm sure that they're watching her very closely on those days. I'm sure they're trying to keep her occupied because they know her suicide risk is super high. They've also got her on some heavy medication. >> Stand by, hold the rest of that thought. I'm gonna hold you guys over, 'cause there's a lot more to discuss in this case, including why they're ending early and why the jurors were called up one by one. this morning. Stand by. You don't wait until your house is on fire to install a smoke detector, and you don't wait until the wind and rain hammer your windows, and the power goes out to prepare for a hurricane. You don't reach for your seat belt after the impact, because after the crash, the hurricane or the house fire, it's too late. Similarly, you don't wait until the dollar goes to zero before you buy gold. It's too late then. So consider diversifying with precious metals right now, because you never know what will threaten your savings next. Persistent inflation, a weakening dollar, unexpected financial disruptions, you don't know what's coming, but you can take a preventive step. One option, requesting a free infocate on gold from Birch Gold Group. Just text my initials MK to the number 989898. There is no obligation, and there is no cost. Just straightforward information on how you can diversify your savings, even an IRA or a 401k in whole or in part with gold. Birch Gold, a great option to consider. Text MK to the number 989898 to learn more. Hey everyone, it's me Megan Kelly. I've got some exciting news. I now have my very own channel on Sirius XM. It's called the Megan Kelly channel, and it is where you will hear the truth unfiltered with no agenda and no apologies. Along with the Megan Kelly show, you're going to hear from people like Mark Halperin, Lake Lauren, Maureen Callahan, Emily Doshinsky, Jesse Kelly, real clear politics, and many more. It's Gold, no BS news. Only on Megan Kelly channel, Sirius XM 111 and on Sirius XM half. Were you aware that on May 26, 2023, that the defendant was observed by staff in a note stating that she was visible along the unit hallways, self-propelling her wheelchair. She had a visit with her mother. They ate and played games during the visit. Are you aware of that? That would have been approximately four months after the incident and on the day of Collins' first birthday, right? Yes. How about on January 24, 24, where she's observed in a note from to express state hospital, patient was visible in the milieu, engaged with both staff and select peers, that she was pleasant during interactions, self-propelling in wheelchair in the halls, spending much of the morning and early afternoon in her room and hall on her electronics. Do you recall reading that record? Not specifically. In January 24, 2024 would have been the year anniversary of the incident, correct? Yes. This is the prosecutor trying to establish that Lindsey Clancy's handling the anniversaries of her children's wealth, birthdays, you know, their birthday in heaven. Just fine, without much emotionality. Welcome back to the MK Show. Arthur Idolis here, Dave Aaronberg as well, and Ashley Merchant all back with me. So let's talk a bit about what's happening inside that courtroom as they're, you know, trying to make their case and then we'll get into what happened with the jurors today. They had Lindsey's mom take the stand and her name is Paula Musgrove. Here's a bit of what she said in sought. Why don't we just play them back-to-back, 28 and 29? Do you recall the end of January that she made a statement to you about the medication in her opinion what it was doing to her mind? Yes. What did she say? She said that she couldn't remember anything. The medication was pretty much just destroying her mind and it wasn't her. She said that this isn't me. I just want to feel better and enjoy my kids again. First message that you are referring to, would that be on October 20th of 2022? Yes. And do you have that on your phone right now? I do. Can you just pull that up for us? I can't just give me a moment. Would you read that for the jurors? Mom, will you please come up and stay with me for a bit? I'm really sick. Something is wrong. I had horrible insomnia all night and I just don't know how I'm going to get through the day. I started taking the medicine. My doctor prescribed for anxiety and I think it's made things worse. It's just really scary and I don't want to be alone. So Ashley, this is the defense trying to paint a picture of a woman who's deteriorating on medicine that is not being well managed by her physicians and recognizing that she's changing in a way that's very disturbing to her and the mother backing her up on it. There was also testimony that the mother had texted Lindsay after the last visit. So great to see you doing better, which was a day before the children were killed and the mother kind of tried to disown it being like, I was just trying to be encouraging. I didn't actually see her better. But I mean, try to explain for us what they're really arguing over because there's no doubt that Lindsay Clancy killed the children. There's no doubt she strangled them one by one with an exercise cord. Not the bands, even referring to them as like the bands. No, the cords, like a bungee looking cord, which is just brutal in the basement. And then she jumped out the window. The only real debate is whether she did it because she had postpartum psychosis or she was just regular nuts, right? Like to a certain extent. Anybody's nuts who kills their children. Right. Exactly. Just, you know, well, the prosecution has charged it, though, as first degree murder. So they're saying that she did this on purpose, that she had a plan. She wanted her kids dead. So I think what the defense is doing is they're building really a timeline. And I expect in closing arguments, we'll see this timeline where Lindsay was reaching out for help repeatedly. They're changing medications. And I think one thing that might resonate with the jury are these medications. I mean, they're medications that are meant to alter your brain. That's what they do. And they were prescribing these. She was going on them. She was going off of them. They were doubling dosage. They were switching dosages. Some of those actually are anti-depressants that could drive you into Mania. We had a guest on our show MK True Crime earlier this week who treats actual postpartum moms regularly and was talking to us about that and talking about how you don't act a certain way all the time. It fluctuates. And was talking about how, you know, you could be in psychosis for one minute and then you seem normal and fine the next minute. And how this is really something that fluctuates regularly. So I think in the end, I think the defense will tie all of this up in a bow for us. They're just laying the little pieces. They're putting all the little bricks out. And then they're going to build this house and closing where they say, look, you know, she's repeatedly reaching out. And, you know, I think having her reach out to her mom, that's something that's reasonable. That's something that she would be honest with her mom, you know, I need help. And I think that really helps the defense because it shows that she really didn't need help and she really was suffering. There's the cross examination, however, of the mother, Paula Musgrove. And here's a bit of it. It's out 31. And when she made the statement that she had thoughts of harming the children, did either you or Patrick ask her what she meant by that? I believe I remember Pat asking her if she felt like she couldn't be alone with the children and she said no. And after she made those statements, did you have any thoughts about committing her? No. Did you have any thoughts about having her come stay with you and Connecticut away from the children? No. Were you concerned for the children's safety at that point in time? No, because I was there. Sorry, I should have played those sod that came before that, which is where she testified that Lindsey did say she had thoughts of harming the children. And the cross examination was basically did she say she didn't think she could be alone with them and the mother saying no. I mean, it does make you wonder like as a parent, if your spouse says I'm having thoughts of hurting my children, I don't really give a shit. The answer is can you do you think you can be alone with them? Game over. But Meg, you just asked actually a question like what's this trial really about? It what it's really about. So everyone else says is housing. Where is she going to spend the next three or four decades? We know she's not it's not going to be walking around society. So the prosecutor wants her to be in a prison and the defense wants her to be in a mental hospital. And I don't know the state of mental hospitals in Massachusetts, but where I am, they're it's not like the hospital where you've given birth. It's it's so it's not a pleasant place to be. And I know in New York, because I've been in this position, people who get convicted of murder actually wind up being out in society sooner than people who are committed, because they committed murder by reason, they're found not guilty by reason of mental disease or defect. Because if you shoot someone, because he's in a gang and you're dealing drugs, by the time you're 30 years later, they think that that's over. But when you're nuts and you did something, I don't mean to say nuts, but you know what I mean, the doctors don't know. Can you come out in society? Can you not come out in society? You did this without rational thought. The gang member that kills the gang member, there's a lot of rational stuff. There's street cred, there's money, there's pressure from gangs, but you do something like this. They don't know if you're going to do it again in some form of fashion. So this trial is just about where is she going to be housed? Warehouse for the next 30 or 40 years until she dies. I mean, I don't know, Davis, so the people who are very angry at her for these murders, you know, for these killings, which one should they be rooting for? Because what if it is like in voluntary manslaughter included as a lesser charge? Because she gets that, that's a quick turnaround. She should And she'd be in and out in a relatively small amount of years versus if she gets sentenced under the, you know, to a mental health facility where she might have to stay longer without any oversight too, Megan. I mean, if she gets out quickly, there's no lengthy probation. If she's in a mental institution, if she's released from that, she's going to go to sort of a step down program. She'll go to a less restrictive alternative, but she'll still have to check in. So she'll still have to be medicated. She'll have to maybe take long acting injectables, maybe make sure that, you know, she can prove she's going to therapy things like that. There's going to be some oversight where if she got convicted of something lesser and, you know, essentially got time to serve, there's no oversight. Nothing. Is it a lesser? Do we know whether there are lesser included charges that the jury's going to be charged with? Yes. You don't usually know until the very end, but most likely they will ask for it. So what the law says is if there is any evidence to support that, the judge has to give those charges. So typically the defense would ask for them at the end. It's a strategy call though, and we may see a fight over that, you know, Kevin Reddington may not want that. You may not want to give them that opportunity. The defense will want all or nothing. The prosecution should hope they can get the lesser inclusions in there. If they get involuntary manslaughter, you can get her up to 20 years in prison. But keep in mind she's also sentenced to life with paralysis because of what she did and threw herself out the window. She's in that wheelchair for life. So that's something she's going to have to deal with. And if she gets sent to a mental hospital, she could be released early on. I mean, especially if she shows extended periods of being lucid like she did beforehand. She was very calculated in her planning. So perhaps if she is seen as lucid again after she's acquitted by reasons of insanity, she could get out of that mental institution early. So it's a tough call. Are there's right? She's not going for no matter what. It's a question of whether she is in a prison or a mental institution, but she'll be in that wheelchair for life. I mean, I feel no sympathy for her there. Like you killed your kids and you jumped out of window. Okay. You know what? That's why you're going to be in a wheelchair. Oh well. David, I don't think any doctors, doctors would have to I think recommend for her to be released. And then the judge would have to agree with them that she should be released if she's in a mental institution. I don't see, especially in case of this notoriety, three deaths and there were her children. I don't see any doctor's son in dying anytime soon that that she's going anywhere. But I do have a question about like, what is that? What is he arguing, Dave? What is she, the prosecutors of she? Is she, is her, because like, this isn't a case where Lindsey Clancy was having an affair and the guy didn't want children, you know, we saw that, right? We've seen that before. So she wanted to get rid of them and she wanted a new life like she threw herself out the window. Like she, this woman clearly, in my view, clearly wanted to die. She wasn't well. There's tons of documentation that she was losing it mentally. She did try to seek help repeatedly. These doctors seemed terrible, not managing her medication once they gave it to her. So like, I'm not excusing anything. I, I think she should probably be convicted. I'm not totally convinced she heard the voices at all. But my point is simply like, what's the prosecution's theory that like, she is nuts. She's just not legally nuts or is it like, no, she's a cold, calculating bitch who decided to take out those kids and then this was a fake suicide attempt when she jumped out the window. But it's the latter and that's the problem because she looks at least to some sympathetic there in front of her, in front of the jury in the wheelchair. She was bawling when she heard about the kids at the trial. And there's no evidence. The autopsy report. The autopsy report. Also, this is not like Casey Anthony, where Casey Anthony wanted to go on the party scene and get rid of her daughter or like Susan Smith, who was buried with these three, like these three kids, like loaded down with them and want to go and sleep around. So this is different. There's really no evidence that she was out there on Tinder trying to have a new life. And that's why it's going to be hard for a jury to say, what is the motivation other than that she was crazy, that she was overmedicated and the fact that she threw herself out the window and according to her own experts landed on her head, her neck and attempt to kill herself. That will, I think, move enough jurors that it's going to be nearly impossible to get a conviction unanimously beyond a reasonable doubt. Is there a chance then? I mean, like it's just now dawning on me that, is there a possibility of not guilty? No. Okay. It's either. They're admitting that she did it. Yeah. That's what you're saying. It's just an argument over where she's going to go. That's where it is. And what Dave just said, though, it is hard to say that she had evil in her heart. Like, I'm like Andrew Yachtwright, or she drowned the kids, but then like she was, that she didn't wind up in a wheelchair. I mean, Maggie, you're diving out as diving. She didn't jump out the window. She dove out the window and landed on her head, you know, she's pretty clear. She wanted to die. Yeah. I accept that I have been, I'm convinced that she wanted to die. I don't, I don't know. With the voices are without the voice, but I'm not convinced on the psychosis. I'm really not. Like so if I, if I'm a juror, Ashley and I have to find psychosis, you know, that she's hearing the voices, which she's, there's been some testimony. I'm not, I'm not going to find that. But is she nuts? Right. Like did she do this because she just decided because it seems like the prosecutors trying to say she, she, we've talked about that Facebook post that Lindsey Clancy made about her son, about how he's just so difficult and like all day long, and he won't agree with anything. And she sounds extremely frustrated. It seems like the prosecutors trying to say, she's a nasty short tempered mother who just hated the burden of motherhood. Right. And there's no evidence of that. Well, I mean, you know, some bitching about, she does talk about her children in a way that's very off-putting. I mean, I can't imagine publicly complaining about my child the way she did about him. But right. Is that really where the prosecution's going? They're not going with no, no, no, no, no, no, there has to be like the defense now has the burden of proving psychosis and trust me, members of the jury, they won't be able to do that. Right. And that's not what they're doing. They just don't really have any evidence that she wanted her kids dead. I think that is the big gaping hole in this case. Everybody who's testified said, I mean, she was a labor and delivery nurse. She wanted a large family. She loved her family, loved her kids. And that she was suffering. Luckily, they don't have to prove that she actually heard a voice. So, you know, that's one of the things that they keep talking about. The defense. Yes, it definitely helps. The defense has a burden here too. Right. Since they've asserted, not guilty by reason and mental defense. Exactly. As long as they think that her mental, essentially her mental illness is what caused this. I mean, essentially, that's what they've got to argue. And that's what they've got to prove. As long as they do that, then she could get the non guilty by reason and sanity. I also think it's important because one of the experts who has actually witnessed her, her psychologist or actually was her psychiatrist who started treating her right after this, has been seeing her, has seen her over 50 times in the mental institute. He testified that she is actually so suicidal still to this day that she requires one-on-one supervision. So she can't really be out of anyone's sight because she is that close to being suicidal at any given time. So I think, unless it comes to the kids' birthdays, in which case, she's like, "Oh, good." She's playing back at me. I'm good. You know what she brought up, Ashley, that I forgot. She's a labor and delivery nurse. Hold that thought because I got to let Dave go. I know he's got another obligation. Thank you so much for being here. Dave, great to see you as always. Thank you. To be continued. Yeah. I actually, and are there continued? Oh, God. A labor and delivery nurse. The mother was. I mean, that's someone who deals with kids all the time, baby, I mean, there's an eight-month-old that died here. You know, that just adds an aggravating factor of, I mean, again, Maggie, you started off this thing and said, "You got to be crazy to do this." And, you know, if I was the prosecutor, the elected DA or whatever they call me there, I was state attorney. I would have worked this out where I would have just agreed that you were here. Lindsay Clancy was a nurse, but it was her mother who was a labor and delivery nurse for like 38 years. I don't know what kind of a nurse Lindsay was. But there was testimony. There was like superfistidious. She was like down to the minute on the kids' schedules, including the moment they had to be asleep. I mean, not everybody's cut out for motherhood. I gotta say. It's truly like, you can't be this fucking tight and have kids. You just look at the curse. You just look at the curse when you guys. She did that weird sleep training thing. I remember that. I was like, I thought that, I didn't even know that was a thing still, some weird sleep training thing where she was so rigid with the sleep. And this third kid just didn't want to do the sleep training. Yeah. That was odd. But it seems like she comes from a long line of labor and delivery nurses too. Because her mother-in-law, her mother, she was. To me, and I think a lot of jurors will agree with this, that means she likes babies. You're not going there delivering babies if you don't like them. And so when she's not in this psychosis, she likes babies. There's been a lot of evidence. She wanted a lot of kids and that she was otherwise a good mom. I think that strengthens this temporary insanity almost. I hate to use the word temporary because she obviously had a long line of mental illness, but it seems like it just temporarily got out of control at this point. I mean, obviously, way out of control. It does seem like, I don't agree with Lisa Rena of the Real Housewives that Patrick is the real killer of the husband, not even Lindsey's arguing that. But the more I learn, the more disgusted I am with him, I got to be honest. It's like, so you knew your wife was in crisis. You saw her deteriorate. You knew that she was having thoughts of hurting the children. You were told by the doctor, she was bipolar and you said, my wife is not bipolar. You are working from home because you're worried about her. And yet in the midst of all that, you do allow her to be alone with the children ever. And the mother, too, kind of failed to have no disrespect to that mom, but like the mom was there. She said, no, I wasn't worried that she was going to hurt the children because we were there. than you left. Why was she ever allowed to be alone with each other? She was failed by the these doctors, the hospitals, her husband, her family. >> But it's some degree, Mac, it's like inconceivable. Like your wife really gonna kill you three kids, even her mother-in-law, and one of the women in my office said, mother-in-law's hate their daughter-in-law's. But even the mother-in-law said, when I saw her, she was a very good mom. She was a very good mom. >> I would go into it thinking she would never. But right. >> Except when the spouse comes to you and says, I'm thinking about hurting the children. In which case you're like, I'm hearing voices, okay, yeah, there's a five alarm fire now. You will not be being, you will not have any alone time with them. >> You're right. >> You're right. >> And they have an enemy or an enemy back then. >> My God knows what he's doing in his mind right now. >> No, but every parent knows you love your spouse, you adore your spouse, and you have to be a united front when it comes to discipline with the children and all that stuff. But if there's any possibility your spouse is going to hurt your child, you're on the side of the child. The divisions don't, that's not a situation where you back the spouse. There was a testimony. It was kind of interesting how they got it in about her hearing the voice. And you mentioned that psychiatrist, the guy who treated her, Dr. Paul Zyzel, he was on the stand. And here's 36, listen to this one. >> She wanted to know how he was doing. She wanted to know if she could call him and find out her husband. Her themes are with her and with him and how he was fairing and to just speak with him. She told him that she loved him very much. She was unable to express a lot of emotion, but she expressed love for him. And she had said that she heard a male voice ordering her, telling her that she didn't have any choice, but she had to kill her children and then kill herself. >> Why did you let her call her husband on your cell phone? >> I let her call a husband out of human compassion. >> Why wasn't there a hearsay objection there? That's a lot of, that's quite a back-ended way to get in that she heard voices. >> Yeah, and then the prosecutor would be the one right-objecting to that coming out. >> Why wouldn't the prosecutor object to that? >> Well, sometimes they don't always know what they're doing. They make mistakes. So I think what the practice of law was still practicing, we never get it right. >> I don't know, I don't think that was, I would have been on my feet saying that's not coming in, not this way. >> I think that's the only way it came in. >> Here's the cross examination, let's say I'm guy, it's not 37. How many times has she told you since the incident that she's heard a voice currently? She has not heard voices since the event took place in 2023. >> And you've now testified that over the course of a period of time that she did hear voices, right? >> Yes. >> And is that based on one of these 35 hours' worth of conversations you had with her, how do you know that? >> Well, they were collateral contacts, I spoke to other people. I spoke to other people who I asked the nature of their interactions with Ms. Clancy, and there was not a fishing expedition. >> I mean, this is the most back-ended way of getting in the cheerleaders they heard voices. That's why I say, I'm not convinced. >> But this is the prosecutor bringing you in? >> Yeah, I know, which is also, it's ridiculous, Ashley. >> I think the prosecutor probably wanted it to come in, so that's why she didn't object when the defense asked it. I think this prosecution, we can only imagine because they're doing something weird that none of us really understand. But it seems like they're trying to argue, well, she only said she heard voices once. So, and she hasn't heard them since. They keep hanging on this, she hasn't heard them since, she hasn't been psychotic since. And all I keep thinking is, that's because she's treated now, she's literally institutionalized and treated. Of course, she's okay now. >> She was on medications before, though. I mean, have they found some new cocktail that's stopping the voices that just wasn't on the floor? >> Yeah, but apparently that's the real thing, like these cocktails, and I had a friend who was going through bad depression, and it took them like two years. And now he's like, Mr. Happy, go lucky, but he said- >> Bet your sex side? >> He goes, no, not that happy. But he said he goes, it took a while for them to medicate me and whatever, I don't know enough about that to talk about it. But it took a while for him and Ashley's right. Like in other words, she's now, I'm sure, in a different regimen- >> She's sleeping. >> Sainly supervised, right? There's people with her all the time and, I mean, the voices to me are irrelevant. >> Well, and she's going to be discussed, Ashley, is, yes, she's sleeping. Is, this is Massachusetts. >> It's not Texas. >> Yeah. >> You know, and you can see that, Megan, in their laws. So, their law is so different than most state's laws, just on this not guilty by reason and sanity. As soon as the defense raises it, the state has a burden to disprove it beyond our reasonable doubt. And that is rare. Most states do not have that. Most states that burden is on the defense. So, this is a really high standard and we have what will probably be a very liberal jury, hearing with a very liberal law. So, you know, I think that's definitely going to work in the defense's favor. >> You're going to have a higher number of bleeding hearts on a Massachusetts jury. >> You would, yeah, one would think. And the law, like the law in California, we talked about this when Nick Reiner got charged. The law in California on self-defense is tough. It's very tough. And the practice, like the way the trials have panned out, Matt Murphy has been talking about this because he was a lifeline prosecutor out there. Listen to this one. There is this case that's often cited in California law schools as an example that severe mental illness does not equal legal insanity. It's the case of Richard Chase. The vampire of sacramento, 1979, killed six people between December 77 and January 78. All of his victims were chosen at random. One was a pregnant woman. He drank her blood after he mixed it with yogurt. Oh my God. Primary motive behind these murders was the mutilation of the bodies and the consumption of their blood and organs. Sorry, if you were warning. Chase had a delusional belief that he needed to consume the blood of other beings to replenish his own supply. He had been treated in psychiatric hospitals before the murders. One time he was taken to the ER of American River Hospital, having injected rabbits blood into his veins. He was diagnosed as a paranoid schizophrenic. He was on psychotropic drugs. He tried to use an insanity defense. The defense argued that he was a paranoid schizophrenic who believed his blood was turning to powder. The jury deliberated for 65 minutes before ruling that he was sane under California law. At the time of the commission of the murder sentenced to death later died in prison. California's hard core, if that doesn't get you the insanity defense, I don't know what would. But it does come down to how the judge is going to charge the jury on what's what equals insanity or mental defect. I mean, that's the entire real ballgame. Is it not great? It definitely is. And Massachusetts has very good jury charges for the defense on that. So I think that is definitely going to work in their favor. Well. I don't know. Maybe we should be rooting for it. Since we all agree that if the jury could consider a lesser included, she's probably going to be out in no time at all. Well, I don't know about no time at all, but definitely less time than if she goes to a hospital. As he said, a case of this magnitude, three deaths, then you add the aggravating factor of the three children, then you add their heart children, then you add that this is a huge media case, you know, there she's not going anywhere. And also, I mean, if she's that suicidal, she's not going to get out because the standard is a danger to herself or others. So, you know, I'm with Arthur. I think she'll serve a lot of time in a state mental institution. We have to spend one minute discussing the insane, weird, leftist mothers all over TikTok. We're posting these videos. There's something wrong with our society, something deeply wrong. What about the Luigi fans? Yes. So there's like a category. There's whole trend of like these young moms who are like, oh, she speaks for all of us. Being a mother is so hard. When you stop, it's stop it. Half the battle is mind over matter. It can be challenging. Sometimes babies cry a lot. You know what? There are ways of managing it. And you don't have to be a nutcase about it. It's a baby, you know, like there, there are ways, ideally you get some help. If you can't afford some help, you've got to lean on a family member. Ideally, if your family member's not there, you lean on your spouse or you just remove yourself from the room. But you don't have to be doing weird TikToks of yourself, like behaving very strangely with your baby. Here's now they're pretending. That's what's so weird about these videos and this is a trend. Here's one of a mom pretending to be overwhelmed with her newborn. And while she plays the audio of Kevin Reddington, that's Lindsay's defense lawyer reading her diary entries. Watch this. 41. I'm desperate to get a mental break from taking care of everyone. My mind is trying to make something physically wrong with me. My mind never shuts off. It's constantly thinking of the next thing someone needs. I can't shut it off. I desperately want to go back to work, but now I don't know how I'm going to function. And it worries me. Wrote that, right? Correct. There were two consecutive or two pages that were blank that she didn't even write on. And then on the third entry, affirmations. She wrote affirmations on November 22nd of 2022. I am calm. I will remain calm today. There is nothing that needs to be on my mind. The weight is lifted from my mind. I will sleep tonight. Okay. For listening audience, there's a woman in her maybe late 20s holding a dendorable baby who seems adorable baby. That's old at most. It was yawning. Let's be crying. Yeah, look at happy people, baby. She's rocking and back and forth. He's not crying at all. She's doing fake sad faces. There's not a tear in her eyes. And she's just keep throwing her head back and like trying to look distraught with like, so she, her baby looks perfect and easy. And she wants in on the what? And look, I don't, I really don't mean to be wider things, but we all know that infants, especially in those, it could get overwhelming. But now in the palm of our hands with this little phone thing, we go, there's so much relief. There's like the calm app to calm the kid to calm yourself. There's so much stress management. You know, I think about my grandmother and my great grandmother who had 11 children, Megan, 11 children, both sides of my family had 11. Wow. Yeah, both, well, because they would die. I mean, that's, you know, I'm talking about in the early 1900s, like the three, I think on both sides died. So like, you know, I guess it stinks. Sometimes it's overwhelming. Sometimes, but, you know, there's a long, there's a lot of real estate between being overwhelmed and mental illness to the point where you're jumping out of window and onto your head after you kill three people. Yeah. I mean, so I get not everybody should be a mother. Like, if you can't handle stress in your regular life, if you're full of anxiety all the time, it might not be for you. Right. And a lot more people should be full. Where are the dads with this TikTok? Like, what's happening when the family members are seeing these TikToks where these people are talking about this? I mean, is someone showing up in the door, making sure that the kids are okay? You know, we know they're probably thinking, well, these women are setting up their eye light, their little spotlight on them, you know, make sure the natural light hits me just right. Well, I look super sad with my baby. I swear, I'm super sad. That's what the fathers don't care about. They know it's attention. It's attention seeking. It's all it is. Who would put this shit on their, on their Instagram, the stuff, stuff. Wait, I want to show you something. When, my oldest was born. I downloaded, there was like the iPhone came out in 2007. He's born in 2008. I downloaded this app on my phone and it is a miracle app. It's got this rattle. And if you shake it, like the thing moves, I'm going to show to you. And I use it if there's like a crying baby on an airplane, I always go over to try to help the mom because this app is like a miracle thing for babies. And it worked on all three of my kids so well, it works on people's strangers, babies. And then they all say, of course, what is the app? And unfortunately, the app only says, are there tell, tell the audience what it's labeled there? Hold on. Baby. Baby. Why? That's it. Wow. It's just a little picture of a baby baby with a picture of a little baby. So I'm like, I got nothing. I don't know how to tell you how to find this app. But I'm going to show you here. Can you see it? Like, I can hear it. Yeah. If you shake it, little balls move around, the little rattle balls, they love it. Every baby on earth loves this bag. Now, maybe there's another app where you can find something like I had one kid who liked to swing one who likes that little like vibrating chair. I mean, there's so many things that you can get. But this is like a magic magic. I'm telling you and it's in the palm of your hand. I don't know how to recreate in any event. I have no tolerance for these actresses who, you know, it's, you know, get help or keep it to yourself. Like, don't go on the fucking tick. Sorry. Tick tock on. Again, as he said, I'm being sincere. There's so much relief on your phone. There's so many ways to deal with this. Now with the AI, okay, my baby's been driving for three hours. What the hell do I do? And it'll give you seven suggestions. Yes. Exactly. Put a nice cube in its hand like something. One of them is not going tick tock. No. I don't think any of them are going to tick tock. So we, what do we think final, final predictions on this case? How is it going to come down, Arthur? I think the jury, I don't think they'll be able to unanimously find she intentionally killed these kids. And I mean, the, the, the, the reasonable doubt fact is hard diving out a window. Yeah. I mean, that, that harm to herself. It's too difficult to say she's like, this is evil person. So I think she'll be in a mental institution. And, and again, actually accurately points out if the doctors think she's going to hurt herself anywhere along the line, they will not let her go. So she'll be there and she's in this wheelchair and I don't expect to have a long life expectancy. What about you, Arthur? I think that it's not guilty by reason and sanity. And I think that we're going to hear from the jurors that they don't like. How the state presented their case. I think they're going to be very critical. And I think one of the things that they're going to say was a big decision-making factor for them was the fact that she had no motive. She didn't want her kids dead. And so without evidence that she actually, other than that one little Facebook post that she actually, and it wasn't even that she wanted her kids dead. It was that, you know, our kid was crying and she was tired. I think they're going to say there was no motive in handling it. Well, yeah, she, she wasn't handling it. Well, obviously. Great to see you. Thank you. You as well, Arthur. So good to have you. I've got some great Italian bread from Brooklyn, downstairs for you when you're ready. If you're allowed to eat, I mean, I'm like, dog ate. We're doing that now. Okay. I'm down. All right. We're going to stay on this. By the way, there's speculation that closing arguments could come as soon as Monday. All of this is broadcast. I love these trials that actually allow cameras in the courtroom. They're so helpful. And you get such a, you know, better accurate picture of what's going on inside the room than you can when they don't allow it. So thank you for that Massachusetts. And thanks to all of you. Enjoy your weekend. We'll see you next time. Thanks for listening to the Megan Kelly show, no BS, no agenda, and no fear. Today's episode was brought to you by Super Shore.