19: Happy Guests, Happy Wedding

Hello everybody, the phone is out. If you're watching the phone is out because I have been making notes. I have been stalking the socials since this happened so I could tell you all of the facts and the goss because whenever there is a publicized wedding, we have to talk about it. And I am trying to set aside my personal opinions on the wedding of Venezuela, Fury and Noah Price. Okay, because what I need to remember and what I need you to remember is it's not our wedding day. Would I walk down the aisle with sunglasses on? No. Would I let everybody film me walking down the aisle? No. Would I have Peter Andre seeing it? I would, yeah, probably would, actually. But I thought I'd get some of the facts and I'd just give you all the goss and all the juice and everything you need to know about that wedding. First things first, Venezuela is the daughter of Tyson Fury, the boxer, the Gypsy boxer. So big fat Gypsy wedding, it's all into that. Noah's also from that background as well. So it was bells and whistles, okay? The topic of interest is that she is 16 years old and he, I believe, is 19. That's young. And if you'd asked 16 year old me what her wedding would look like, to be fair, it might have looked like that. But it does come with a question of should 16 year olds be getting married? Now legally you have to have parental consent to be 16 and get married, which obviously she has had. And she is from a different cultural background. So it is much more common in that traveler community to get married younger. However, let's have a look at the stats and the information. So the wedding took place on the Isle of Man at a church, little chapel, and then over at a golf and hotel resort. Apparently, apparently, the wedding cost seven million. As a planner, if I was looking at that wedding, I'll be honest, it doesn't look like seven million pounds worth of wedding. But what I have read is that there was reportedly gifts from Tyson, Fury and Paris, of a five million pound cash gift to the couple, a gypsy traveler caravan, and a honeymoon worth about 30 to 40,000 pounds. So honestly, it didn't even look two million pounds. And that's not a criticism of it. It's just knowing how much a church and knowing how much a golf resort would cost. I can't see that being the case. Anyway, let's talk about the dress. I don't know if you've seen the clip of her walk down the aisle. But when she gets to the front, the dress is still at the back. It was a 50 foot train, and it was paired with white crocs. Again, I'm not even mad at her. In fact, I hope she's watched some of my videos where I'm saying you do you, babe, because if that's what you want to do, crack on, there were apparently 10,000 blue hydrangeas. There were 18 bridesmaids, Bambi being one of them. Bambi is Molly May's daughter. Molly May heavily pregnant at that wedding, so props to her for even attending. Anyway, the age was one of the biggest controversies around it. So some people were defending the traveler culture, saying that it's very normal. Others were very uncomfortable with a six-dune-year-old getting married. However, Paris, who is the mum and Tyson Fury's wife, has defended her daughter by saying that she got married young. They mature a lot quicker because they're so involved in the family life and things like that. So she helped raise younger siblings. We need to ignore the fact that she's 16 because it's different worlds. There was also apparently police incident at the wedding. So the reception turned chaotic. A fight broke out. A man in his 20s were arrested, and evidence bags with cash and a phone were reportedly seen. This is by the sun. So you can take it with a pinch of salt. But can we imagine spending 40,000 pounds on the dress? That is how much the dress cost. And then it ended with a fight and blue lights that I'm a wedding, I'd be furious. Anyway, the most fascinating part of this whole thing is that this is an ultra-luxury wedding. However, that ultra-luxury wedding has been combined with a traveler culture. So it's quite weird to see and quite unique to see the millionaire family, the Netflix fame, the design address, Peter Andre, but also they then have gone to move back into their static caravan, the traditional values, the marrying young, and that kind of strong traveler identity. So I do wonder how that wedding day felt. And the clash in those two elements are probably what has given it such massive publicity online. And because people are filming it as well, like you don't normally get to see all of these things inside of the wedding at anyone's wedding, let alone a celebrity's wedding. So I was so shocked to see every of his phones out, seeing that Tyson Fury was talking to the press outside, that Molly May was there, you could see everything that was happening. It was, I don't know if your whole feed is just that wedding as well, but that is certainly what mine has turned into. So yeah, enjoy all of that content. But the one thing that I kind of think about and the one that sticks with me is that when Tyson came out after walking her down the aisle, his line to them was, that was my baby in there. So all of this spectacle, all of this money, all of this culture all comes down to the factor of, they just had a lovely wedding. And look, if you wanna walk down the aisle to big e-smalls with your sunglasses on, with your crocs, with a 50-foot train, you do you. I'm lifting the veil on wedding planning, making this journey together, inspiring, supportive, and dare I say, fun. I'm your host, Georgie Mitchell, and this is the Secret Society of Brides. - So this episode is not for you. This episode is on behalf of your guests. So that'll give you a little idea of what's to come. So we have got the co-founder and head of brand at Gather, but I know her as a guest experience expert, it's Ellie Beven. - Hello. - Hi. - I loved how you described your surname as heaven would've been. - Well, it avoids the like, be even, be even. - Oh yeah. - Yeah. I mean, I feel like it's not even a particularly hard to pronounce surname, but if you have a surname that people tend to pronounce wrong, you have to have a short hand for it. - But now I think of heaven every time I think of you now, and that's what I thought. - It's quite a head of brand. I mean, I'm brand of my name. It's more of a spelling thing as well, like when people, you know, someone's taking your email to get a receipt and you're like, it's heaven with a bee. And they're like, yeah, got it. But then that makes me go, "Heather, heather, heather." - Heather has put the bee. So let's start, which way around should we do it? Tell me about you first. - As a person, please. - Sure. - Okay. So I, God, I was born on the ninth of January. (laughing) No, I mean, so my history is in branding. Like that's kind of where I started, because I was always really interested in how brands talk to people. And so I was always interested in like, audience segments and basically connecting a business with its audience. Like that was always what really interested me. So I went into branding and then the opportunity came up to work with my dad, who I co-founded, "Gather With." And I think that was kind of a natural kismet really, because my parents founded Pazola, which is the first wedding gift as company in its ilk back when I was nine. So I was always on the periphery of that. And kind of, it was very much, I always describe it as a kitchen table business because it was. And it's hard to pitch that because if anybody doesn't know presently like it's huge. It's arguably still the biggest gift list of one. - Yeah, definitely. - Okay, I would imagine so yeah. So you literally saw that star build. - Yeah, exactly. And literally like, my parents office was the spare room next to mine. So like when I was going to sleep after bedtime story, it's like, okay, and to the computer. And you could hear them like tapping away into the night. And I mean, yeah, even like the warehouse, like my brother and I used to go and do shifts there on a weekend. Like unpacking boxes for-- - Yeah. - Shake away not a chair. - Pop a label. - Yeah, you know what it's like. So yeah, I mean, it was really, we were really involved in it as a family. Like some my grandparents would be there packing boxes with us, like all of us were really kind of up there from the beginning. - Yeah. And I think it was really fun. Like it was really, it was fascinating to kind of watch that happen. For me, growing up like so is 9, 10 and kind of being a young girl, watching your parents in the wedding industry, like it just felt glamorous. - Glamers. - Yeah, absolutely. Even though I was like so far in the unglamourous side of it, like warehouses, boxes, like this is not, like tool and sparkles and flowers. Like it was very not glamorous. And yeah, there was still something really interesting. - I think if you're involved in weddings, in any way whatsoever, it feels like there's something bigger. - Yeah, definitely because I think I remember even being a kid and like being in their warehouse and like holding like a Jome Lone candle or something. And being like, this is someone's wedding gift. Like someone has bought this for someone. And after their wedding, they are gonna get it and they're gonna unbox it and they're gonna be excited and happy. And I remember like thinking, like following those emotions from like the moment the guest had purchased it all the way up until when the host unboxed it. And just being like really excited by that and really entranced by it, like there's something really joyful about being involved in someone's celebration. - And yeah, I think so I always loved that and I always had an affinity with it. And seeing the way they brought real joy to people's lives was always something that I loved. And so after I'd kind of gone away and worked and branding myself, they, as part of Priscilla, they had getting married, which is the UK's favourite wedding website. And this is like your old school wedding. website as a old school. It's not particularly old school. But your desktop first, you've been a broadcast only, static wedding website, whatever gets the same details. So they were running that. And I think after the pandemic, especially, I think dad was saying that there was a frustration, like he was feeling frustrated with business. I think customers were feeling frustrated with it because it just didn't match. It was no longer purpose built for what modern consumers wanted. And I think the pandemic really catalyzed that change. And so obviously me with my brand hat on, having kind of absorbed the world of weddings from the periphery growing up. And then also kind of aging into that consumer brackets, just having friends getting married. And you know, it being that they're speaking to my peers now. It was really instinctive that I naturally started to shape the product. And we started to have these conversations. As I said, as Priscilla was a kitchen table business, gather very much is two. Like it started over dinners. It started over Sunday lunch. It just like started around the kitchen island of us chatting naturally. And then it evolved over time. And then I, you know, the opportunity to come on board properly. So this, I need to understand the moment when gather gathered when the moment is gathered. And that's risky going into business with your dad. Everyone's the first question everyone asks. But I mean, so I think in terms of that, the idea of working with my dad gathered because I was afraid to work with him. I think like obviously when you grow up in a family business, the blueprints there, you know what it's like. And when people talk about work life, for example, like you don't really have that in a family business because your life is your work and you enjoy it. So it does, you know, when people are like, "Oh, your work is your life." Yeah, I know. I chose that. Exactly. And also because you are there together all the time. So like if you're saying you're starting a business from a kitchen table, like you're going to, your life is going to orientate around it. Your family's going to orientate around it in the same way. And so I think we, I knew that going into it. Like I knew the time's in conditions going into it. Yeah. I think the reason we could have the conversations about it seriously was because that blueprint had been set. Yeah. My mum and dad and I'd watched them kind of navigate that together. And so for me, it felt really natural and instinctive to work with your family because, yeah, the people you try to understand. I guess if you were going to pick someone as well, he has the credentials. Exactly. Yeah. To want someone like that on board. Totally. And it really felt like when we were having these conversations, it really felt like his, it felt like we were bringing two completely different perspectives to the table. Yes. And it felt like a puzzle with missing pieces that each of us held. So for example, like he has that commercial understanding, you know, he's got the numbers, but he's also got the legacy. Yeah. So he understands the industry better than anyone else. And like he knows the landscape, he knows the history. And then he knows the consumer, like Gathers built on hundreds of thousands of data points for weddings, both from like the Prasola Days, from the getting married days, but also just anecdotally. Like obviously if you work in that space for over 10 years, you learn so cut up. Yeah. And so, you know, he bought all of that precedent and that foundation. What did you bring? I brought nothing. I brought a prize. No, I mean, I would say that I bring that next generational perspective. So even that shapes the platform. So it shaped the fact that Gathers mobile fast because we know that everything happens on your phone. Yeah. So why would you build something for a desktop or that's paper only like you want something that fits into your life into your behaviors, into your mindset, both for you and your guests. So that, for example, is something that I brought to the table. But I think more so shaping the platform so that it felt intuitive and natural to like next generation planners like myself. And that also even the way like we market the brand, even the way we talk to people, you know, put in community at the heart of everything. Like I think all of that is a next generation viewpoint because when Rosola first came to market, the landscape was so different. It was like double page spread and bright. Yeah. And that obviously just doesn't resonate now. And so I'm now you need to do one video that gets more views than all of these put together. And it's yeah. And off you go. And but also you can do that one video. But then it's like, okay, so you've gone viral now. What? Yeah. Like what does virality mean? How do you capture it? Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Totally. And so it was kind of that side too where I think, yeah, I could kind of guide the strategy for the business, not only in terms of shaping the product, but in terms of how we talk to people, how we talk to our brides and our grooms, how we capture their attention, how we really communicate the value of the product. So what is gather? Is it a website? No. I mean, lives on a website. So I guess you could say this thing. So like properly dumb it down for us. Yes. People are listening thinking what are like, yeah, we're going to get to the point of looking after your guests and guests experience things of that. But this is like the piece of the puzzle. So what is it in idiot terms? So gather is the first guest experience platform. That's how we brand it. Yeah. Because we are the first of our type to be considering the guest in the way that we do. And it is a journey that is purpose built for your guests to have a seamless ride from save the day through to RSVP through to your day and beyond. So you're basically and again, I'm properly dumbing it out. You are an invitation that does everything that actually explains it all. If you were a physical invite, you would be the one with all the inserts, with the nice picture on the front, all of the information you're just on the phone. So we make physical, you can't, so we like to think of gather as a series of personalized hubs because we personalize the guest experience for everyone. So yes, you can have a printed invitation and that'd be a guest entry point together. Yes, you can have a wedding website that the same thing acts as like your doorway into the product. But what gather does is it digitalizes your RSVP. So every guest gets sent an invitation to RSVP. Their name is their password. They get to accept the events they're invited to. They get to add their directory requirements. Many choices. Every single thing a host needs to know in the lead up to planning their wedding is captured in the gather guest journey. And then from there, they live in their guest hub. On their phone is their personalized itinerary? Is it an app? Or is it? It's not an app. You don't have to download it. You guest don't have to download it. There's no FAF, no kind of additional barriers to entry. It just lives on your desktop. So it's a website. But when you're in it, it's not a website. It's a, exactly. Like you said, I think hub is the good word for it. So if I'm a guest going to a wedding, I want my couple, the couple to have used gather because then it's super easy for me to get all this information. Yeah, totally. And I think the reason we kind of like rub up against the bad websites because you then get categorised in the wedding website. Yeah. And which is kind of the antithesis of what we are. Like we built gather as a departure from the historic wedding website for a generation that would dissatisfied with it. Fine. So even though operates on your browser in the same way that a wedding website does and is accessible in the same way, it feels different. Like because a website to me, a wedding website. I think static was the word you used earlier, which is the right. It's a website is not customised. Is it? If you come onto my website, you get all the same information, same stuff, fine. Totally. Whereas for guests, I think we'll come onto this obviously, but like different guests are in direct, but it's different things. Different guests need to know different information. They need to be able to give you information. But like I've got two weddings coming up. This comes out. I think I've already been. I might even be at one right now. But it's I'm good at the start. I've been like, I know I need to RSVP. I'm going to send my RSVP. And then I just forget about it. And then it suddenly gets to the month of the wedding. And I have a million questions. I know I'm not going to I don't want to bother the bride and groom. I genuinely try not to be that person, but equally, I don't know what time I need to be there. I can't remember the wedding website. It's on a text message somewhere or it's on the save the date that I don't know where it is. So it's how I guess the first question is that kind of how do you stay where guests can access you. Yeah, because I think we were really used to seeing that for my rights. We were used to people getting the initial invitation. The moment of excitement. Oh my god, I can't wait. This is I'm really looking forward to this. But your save the date is a few months in advance. Your RSVP is a few months in advance. Yeah. Like six weeks minimum. And so you think this is a future me problem. 100%. And so you kick that can right down the road. Fair enough. As you problem is natural, you know, you've got the rest of your life to live. But what we do at Gather is we have a magic link. So it just lives in your inbox. Once you've gone through this RSVP that your cup that your host has sent you an RSVP link, you've done it on your WhatsApp or whatever channel they've sent it to you on because we work with everyone. Once you've failed in your RSVP, you get all of that summarized in your inbox. Yeah. And that has a magic link to your live guest hub. And you can just find track that down whenever you need to. Yeah. Gather in the search bar or you can save it in your emails. And you can just click through into that. And then once you put your name in, you don't have to go through that RSVP journey again. All of your art and everything you've said is there. But one of the best things about it again, going against the idea of it being static is that you can update that anytime your RSVP is just a little open. Yeah, because maybe the me that shows the meal was feeling healthy. Yeah. I don't want to be on a health kick. And now you think actually I do want the chocolate. Yeah. I do. I do actually. And you know, it can even be like maybe your plus one has changed. Yeah. Maybe your availability has changed and you can't come to the cocktails the night before like there are things that evolve or even you know you've got new dietary requirements, whatever it might be. When RSVPs are live and that's set by the host, they can set they set them live and they turn them off. When the whole time they're live, you can go in an edit it. Fine. And on the host side, that's live. da is y men falleaeth a yth gys cry managesко ave y gael ynsfelio ti'r drosulau i difieose sy'n hyn y Lif Adam I、 myll believe gw csak ffordgol ycht'D Yswyddiad Genavewch incredibly engun ein bod msongoutu oedd ac herald meithyr ei sy'n sem diethys un arfnwyaf yw'r cy�를 yn arweddau â'n defny Kilbanch dar. 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Aiodd gy Psychologyllマ amser i'w maen nhw, i adref Entwicklung cy-ogram gy睡'r gyfer yn bwnyandel ar unig ac uwun amser ac o'r yihast, A ar lacking mynd chapiro i'w enw. To花 ni'r ac eto ei wahanadoto, tu yng Nghymna, reich i fyny, fo cée Lad y «Medgeg Angels» a 'edg iawn o gyfer ecwcín fel yw teth— offering dread o 'lev우wr, 'emyn calcium Sidram y gydynor, a'r gydynor, a'r gydynor, a'r gydynor, a'r gydynor, a'r gydynor, a'r gydynor, a'r gydynor, a'r gydynor, a'r gydynor, a'r gydynor, a'r gydynor, a'r gydynor, a'r gyscentric, a'r gyscentric, a'r gyscentric, a'r gyscentric, literally what we're all about, I got there. So, to me, it's gyscentric, just means considering them from the very beginning. Exactly. And that means, Exactly. If you didn't care and if you don't care about your guests, just a lope. Yeah. You're really aren't interested in, and that's alright. Like, don't invite them. Yeah. You don't have to have anyone. You don't need to do anything. But, yeah. If you are inviting people to your wedding, surely you want them to have a nice time. Exactly. And I think it's, how do you shape a nice time? Like, that's the big question. Because I think guest experience, a lot of people think about it, and I'm seeing so much, like, gorgeous stuff on the day. The guest, right? So, you see, like, personalized matchboxes. Yeah. You've got someone doing watercolour paintings of guests as they're right. Yeah. They've got personalized poems on there. See, like, really, really gorgeous, really thoughtful stuff. But, what does that look like from the beginning? What happens if we roll that back to save the day? Like, you're literally speaking such. I. Everybody is worried about the guests on the day. Yeah. And I love actually not everybody. The good, the good ones. They're good. I'm thinking about the guests on the day. But I agree. It starts from that first point of contact. And full. All the way through. If I, as a guest, feel looked after, and I know the information I need to know, and I'm not working with people. Stress about going to weddings. It's stressful. It is. Yeah. And I think that's the thing is that it doesn't mean that you deprioritise the day. And it also doesn't, like, it shouldn't add a burden to you as a host. Because I can hear the tension in saying, you need to be thinking about your guests from the day and beyond. And then thinking, okay, so that is adding to my cognitive load, which is already pretty heavy. Yeah. But that's, again, not what we're saying. I think that's why we built, gather in the way that we did, so that it actually lightens the load for host, because we've thought about all those things they're quietly worrying about. I'm sure it's. I kind of think of it like a CRM system. If I think of my CRM system, it was a ball ache to set up. You have to get all the right things in. You have to make sure. But when it's done, my God, is it worth it's weight and gold? Because now it's all automated. Everything's on there. So I guess it's. You've got to invest that little bit of time at the start to just nail it all. And then it just. Do you know how many. I do a month before call with my couples, so we'll do a call, and I'm like, "How are you feeling?" How are you getting on? And they're always like, "People are annoying me. People are asking me questions. People are trying to find out things." And some of the time I'm like, "Ah, they're annoying." And then at other times I'm like, "You know what I'm told them, like, the dress code." And you haven't told them that the church. Like maybe they've got a poll. Like, there's so many things that actually you probably should be telling them. What do you think? Because I'm also conscious of. People don't want to tell people everything. We want there to be surprise at the wedding. We want there to be this, like, you don't know what you're coming to. What do you think guests need to know? Like, if we were right in a list, what is on that list of must-nose? So, if we start from the beginning, like if we start the start, so you need to know when the wedding is, obviously. But that's more than just your day. You need to know specific times and specific times for different things. So obviously, if you're attending the ceremony, you need to know what time the ceremony starts. But not only what time the ceremony starts, but time you need to be sat down. What time you need to be mingling outside the church. I always tell people earlier. If you say one o'clock ceremony, they're coming at one o'clock. So you need to know specifics and you need to be clear and transparent about what those specifics are. So, date, time, naturally. Location. Same thing about specifics. Location and parking is one of the things guests are quietly worried about and it just sits in the back of their mind and they're Google mapsing the nearest car park and they're thinking, "Okay, but do I have to pay for that?" Or can I park outside the venue? No double yellows. Do you want me to get in the room? Because I've got to be there at one bug. I've got to sit down at two, but then the park is like 10 minutes walk away. Exactly. Exactly. I'm in heels. I don't want to walk 10 minutes. Do I have to be dropped off before? Do I get a taxi? Do I get a taxi? Can I park at the next place? And then if I can't park there, where do I park? Do I just get a taxi to be holding it? Yeah. All of these things need to be considered. But you can do that as simply if you've just thought ahead. So it's just a simple note saying, "This is the closest car park." Yeah. And like, these are the tolls. Yeah. Because that, this is the nearest tube station or we've got a bus organised. Do you need to see? You know, it's simple things like that. Yeah. Just preempt any difficulty or friction, I guess, just going to experience. I almost want to stress you guys out as a guest, as in that thing of being like, especially when it's always a church in Marquis. Yeah. Do I drive to the church? Do I leave my car at the church? Do I park there? Do I then get in a bus to there? But if I've gotten a bus, my car's at the church. How do I get from there to there? I want you guys to be thinking of that. I know that you have got four million things to be wearing about genuinely. I do. But like you said, if you can get that guest bit done, Bwyr hyp nói gyddi eit変u esolfedri Tori hyn. when you said about the like investing time early because that really is what it is. When we see couples use gather from the very beginning, the end result is a seamless day, both for them and for their guests. And for me, that's again going back to like the guest centric point. You're not deprioritising yourself as a couple. In fact, you're prioritising your experience of the day because people aren't battering you with questions anymore and you're not worried about people feeling tense, you're not worried about the vibes because people are flowing through as you plan as you'd hoped. And so ultimately, like it lightens the load, even though it might feel, you know, it feels a lot, it feels like pressure, it feels like things being put on shoulders, but it absolutely isn't. Do you think you, I need to go back to the first question after we've done this question, but do you think that guests need to know everything at the start? Because I'm thinking of the point when you send out a safe today, I don't know all this information. I don't know about a bus. I don't know about Park. I just booked the date and I'm trying to get the date in your calendar. How do you make them then go back to look as the guys have updated it? So the save the date that we offer functions kind of independently. So what you can do with your gather save the date is either you can just have it as this kind of broadcast with an image and your bare details as many as you are comfortable putting in or are able to put in a day, moment in time, rough location. Yeah, exactly. So it's just kind of acts as a message essentially. Or you can use it as a contact collector, which is a really nice thing because sometimes people want to use a different email than their work email. Or they want to give you their postal address you can send them, or print it in by you can use it to do contact collect for the same time. And then the RSVP journey sits independently from that. So that acts as your pre-lood, you know, your kind of like initial flower. It's coming. And it can be designed in any way you like. So you can insert your image, adjust your colors, adjust your fonts and off it goes. But then your RSVPs when things start to get serious. So this is when you do have those details. This is where the shape of your day has come into form. This is when you know what your event schedule is. So we're not sending that bit until we actually know the plans of the day. Because this is again when things start to get fragmented. Like I think just as you have to walk the day in your guest shoes, you have to walk the experience in the lead up in their shoes too. And if you think, okay, if I was being given multiple streams of information, would I be able to track and manage that? Yeah. Unlikely, especially if I'm attending five weddings this summer. This is what people forget. And I know that we want to think it's our day is the only day that's happening. But actually a lot of people I speak to are in that age group where they literally have five weddings that you're listening, having your wedding probably have got weddings in that year. And it's like, how do you remember that? Can you have more than what if everybody starts using gatherer? Can you have more than one as a guest? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I think the priority there is to know what job each message serves. So when you save the date serves that initial introduction date, I think is a save the day. Yeah. Just the name. That's when things start to be two ways. Because that's when you start to need something from your guest. And they started to need something from you. That's when they start to need those specifics. Yeah. And that's when that list comes in of, okay, we need to know more about the venue. We need to know about parking. So let's carry on with that then. So we had date and time specifics. We had locations. But then specifics within those locations, all things like parking. Exactly. What else do you think is set like has to have essential, so personalized itineraries. So this is a big thing, I think, and one of the like strengths of gather personalized itineraries are absolutely vital because people have so many different events going on. So whether you have like one day and you've just got a ceremony in a dinner or maybe you've got a wedding weekend and you've got a rehearsal dinner the night before and a pool party the day after. You might even have like two centered weddings. So you've got like your town hall wedding in the city. Yeah. And then you've got your tusk and wedding the next year. Yeah. You know, you've got all of these different formats for weddings. And yet you expect to be sending everyone the same invitation. Yeah. That doesn't make sense. Even just day and evening guests. Exactly. It's probably the most obvious ones for people listening that are thinking I've not having a whole weekend thing. But actually evening guests, I remember having to make two different websites because I didn't want my evening guests to know what we were doing that day because I don't want to be like, "Ha ha!" Yeah, totally. Oh my god. Yeah. It's that this could have been what you had. And also it's like it stops miscommunication from a guest's perspective. Yeah. Because they know exactly what details they need and are relevant to them. So they wouldn't get the church all the time. They don't need to know any of that. Because again, if we're talking about cognitive load, it just adds unnecessarily because that information isn't for you. It's not relevant to you. I'm worried you're going to come. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And you know, it stops all of that from both the guest side and the host side. Host doesn't have to worry about people showing up to things they're not invited. Guests doesn't have to worry about details that aren't relevant to them. Fine. So we've got specific parts. We've got the locations. We've got the timings. What else? Dress code, I think is always an important one, which comes before the wedding itself obviously, and needs to be communicated. And like the degree you go with your dress code, I think like as in the depth, you get people, you know, whether it's just a cocktail, please, or a full pin-fresponse board is up to you. I am really into a palette for a wedding. I know it sounds, I sound like a dick, but I'm going to do it because the weddings I've done where they've kind of given out of a palette. Look, fire. I know. Unfortunately, it does. It does. But again, it's just being conscious of the guests of actually, do you know what? It narrows it down for me if you send me a palette. Obviously, please don't put just one colour on there because actually that colour's not my colour. And I don't think one of the pastels is not my, I've actually, I'm a winterist. Yeah. So it's trying to figure out, but I love when there is something to be working towards because totally, otherwise I'm just going in blind and actually, yeah, there are rules around dress codes and I didn't think you'd have to tell people don't wear white. I reckon 90% of the weddings I go to, somebody is wearing something that I think you should wear that. You shouldn't be wearing that. It's also how it photographs, I think, because people, like the amount of times I've my first, interesting seeing someone on Instagram, I'm like, oh my god, you all right, just somebody else is spreading. They're like, oh, it's butter yellow. It's like, it didn't look butter yellow. No. No. It looked butter, nope. I've got yellow to wear to this wedding that I think I've already done that you guys listen to. It is the yellowest yellow that you could ever get. That's like, I'm literally, because I was like, I would have cancelled if I wear anything that is like, but I think it goes back to that thing of guests worrying. And actually, like you said, I think the more information you give people in a digestible way is good. Like, please don't wear white. Please avoid pink because the bridesmaids are in it. Just information. It's again, that not worrying. I'm not worrying going to these weddings that I'm going to because I know the dress code and I know I'm nailing it. Exactly. And that just frees up your space to actually enjoy it because you're not worried about what to pack in the lead up. You were just thinking, yeah, all I have to do when I get there is have fun, which is exactly what it should be. And I think, like sometimes I think of the guests as it's like the classic English thing of when you sit at a table in a restaurant and the waitress comes over and says, oh, how's the food? And you go, it's really nice. And then the second they did you like this really not good. And this is wrong with it. This is wrong with it. There is a bit of a gas mentality of that of like the host because you know the host has put so much effort in. You don't want to be like raining on their parades, obviously. But the idea that actually was quite difficult to put the hotel and actually I missed out on like the group pricing of it. And actually, I wouldn't want this dress if I knew more about it. And actually, I'd have to I got a parking ticket because I parked in the wrong like, you know, there's all of these things that like slowly build up and quietly erode the guest experience. But it's a little about how we put it out for. We don't they shouldn't they shouldn't have an opinion on my wedding. But they do have an opinion of my wedding. And I would like them to have a good opinion on my way. So it's such like like we said, if you're going to spend money on an illustrator because you want people to have a nice time. Yeah, let's make the start easy. Let's make them actually getting to the wedding. Yeah. Especially when it's adding nothing more to the the host's job. Yes, that's kind of like the thing where it's like, you know, having an illustrator is a lovely thing to have, but it's expensive. And you know, it might be our budget and it might just not be the vibe. But like having information like distributing information early and easily. It's free for you to do as a host. And so why shouldn't you do it? I'm 100% with you. So we've got, okay, we've got that. We've got a dress code. Is there anything else that's like, people would want to know this? What do you think? Food. Yeah, I want to know. I don't I don't even need the menu actually. Some people do a choice, some people don't. If you're doing a choice, obviously, I would like to pick my options, but I kind of want to know if there's food. And the level of food, I think is the thing. So it's like, okay, you're serving food and drinks. Great. Is this like little piggy things? And I'm going to need to go to my house on the way home? Or is this a full dinner? Do I need to eat what the daytime people have eaten so that I'm then full enough to be able to get through this evening? So and I think you don't need to be prescriptive in that in saying, okay, so have a big lunch, you know, like you don't need to be telling people what to do. I think it's just giving them the information of what you're going to offer them. And they can make their own plans around that. Small bites at 9pm. Exactly. And then people go, great, I'm going to need more than that. Or I'm going to be happy with that. Exactly. And things like a bar. So like, okay, is it a cash bar? Yeah. Sometimes I've been to weddings where you get champagne for the toast, to the bride and groom, for the dinner, they're serving wine. And then after that, you need to pay for drinks. Yeah. But you need to know that. Yeah. You need to know what to expect. You need to know what to anticipate. And I think that, you know, are there going to be non alcoholic drinks? What options are there? All of that kind of information, dietary requirements too, is like one of the biggest ones. And one of the ones that's really important, obviously, from a venue perspective, from a theatre perspective that goes kind of unseen, because you think it's nice to have when it's actually totally an essential. 100% essential. And I think you made a good point on drinks as well of like, do I need to bring actual cash? Is that okay? card machine is there lots of drinks available? I'm like, do I, there's just so many, do you think though? I'm gonna, I'm gonna throw back questions, you know. Do you not think at some point there's too much information? Like, do I need to know what drinks there are or do I just need to know the bare minimum? I think it depends on the couple and it depends on the format of your day. I think I'm not advocating for overcommunication. Yeah. I think you absolutely can, where your guests end up just feeling overwhelmed by all of the details that you've given them. Instead, I think it's been precise with the details you give them. Yeah. And that's why it's helpful to walk the day in their shoes because instead of thinking, well, I'm just gonna throw all the information at you and I'm gonna throw the 10 closest car parks. Yeah. Yeah. You know, instead it's thinking realistically, what do people need to know? So, no, they probably don't need to know the top 10 car parks, but they could probably use, you know, the nearest. Well, that might be helpful. They probably don't need to know how expensive it is to park there, but they just need to know kind of the general logistics and then they can work the rest. Yeah. Exactly. The pain and how far it is to walk there. Exactly. So I think it's like having a critical assessment from the guest perspective, but that's all it means to have a guest centric wedding is to be looking at things from the guest viewpoint. Yeah. And that's how you kind of stop on, so stop misinforming, under informing or over informing. Yeah. It's a fine line, isn't it? It is. It is. It's absolutely is. And some people want to know more, some people want to know less, you know, your guests are always going to have different preferences. And by having different itineraries, that's helpful because it means they'll only see details relevant to them. But to some extent, you're giving them everything they need. And if they want to go and do more research into hotels or options, yeah, are up to them, then that's on their terms. But you've given them that foundation, like that framework, then to work with them. I guess that would be another thing of telling people as well, accommodation. Yeah. Ending night plans. Absolutely. Yeah, because I think sometimes like with carriages, it's like, are we all getting individual types of things? I just have to admit that I'm like, I still picture a horse and carriage for every wedding. And never have I seen one. I do as well. When I first saw that on a wedding invite, I was like, oh my god, they both carriages. So maybe the first thing you need to tell your guests is that it's not real carriage. Yeah, it's not. And they have to book it themselves. And it's, yeah, how do you would that to be like, we're sorting out taxis? Slash. You sort your own taxis. Slash. Here's a list of taxis numbers. Slash. Don't forget to book it. She won't be able to book it on the day because it's a thing of Ben you in the middle of nowhere. Yeah. There is so much information to get. Totally. And I think it's almost like when you're at a hotel and you know you're close to check out because you can feel them usuring you out. Yeah. And that feeling of like, okay, what I've had like, I lovely state this hotel and this has kind of contaminated the experience because like, you're basically kicking me up my room, I'm basically being a bit bit. Yeah. You don't want it to feel like that like in the same sense of like, well, go to your own taxi because my wedding's over now. You know, it's like, 12 o'clock. Yeah. Why don't we just do it? Yeah, exactly. It's kind of a thinking everything through like from beginning to end in the totality and what that is lived like for guests. I've got so many questions on so many things. Right. What is the biggest communication mistake that couples make? Um, fragmenting information, I would say. So it goes back to the point about cadence and the idea of how do you keep them engaged throughout the whole process? How do you not lose information? Yeah. So I would say one of the biggest issues is that you send your save the day and then you like do a little camera design as a digital invitation and then you send that. But then you can't edit that or update it and then something changes so you need to do a follow-up. Yeah. But then you need to do that over WhatsApp and then some people you need to talk to on email and then oh no, my aunties lost the password to the wedding website. So I need to track that down. Yeah. It's when things start to fragment and break apart. That's when things start to really build up. And again, it's where that investment point comes in because you didn't invest in the beginning. Yeah. And so you haven't you haven't completely compounded the results. It kind of all starts to dissipate and then you start to feel that pressure. Um, so I would say to ease that mistake, the best thing you can do is have a guest management solution from the very beginning. And even if you're not using all of it at the beginning, knowing that it's there. So for example, like gas messaging, you might not need to send a gas message in the beginning. You might just want to say hi, welcome to our wedding. Yeah. You're very exciting. But when it comes to the day before and there's a tube strike and you need to let all of your guests know you're going to be really grateful that you had a platform in place that was ready for that. I don't think there's enough pre-messages. And I think they're fun. I think they can be done work like they can be. I'm trying to think of it from both both sides of it. Can I ask you a rude question first of all? Because we're talking a lot about gather. Yeah. How much is gather? If you're going to tell me it's like 10 grand, I'd probably might turn off because it's sounds great. But gather is nice, nine pounds. That's it. It's one flat fee. Fine. You don't pay a subscription because I don't think you should have to penalise someone who's planning long time ahead. Yeah. Do you know? It's just a once-off. There's no tears. Like there's no premium access. I'll find you just okay. Everything. It made me feel better. The fact is so so we've got two kind of options. When we're thinking about all these questions and things there's two options. We can use it. Like you said, a guest management system like gather that is then can do all of these things from it. Or we can take these answers and twist it into our own. You might want to send out what's that message is. You might want to do a bloody video. You might have a social page that like there's ways of doing things. Yeah. Do you think however you want to manage it? Yeah, it's totally. I don't think people give people enough points throughout planning. They kind of like some two percent invite and that's it. That's the only interaction they have and you're expecting guests to remember. Yeah. No, 100%. And I think there are a lot more opportunities to have fun with them. So like with Gather, you can send printed invitations and either insert a QR code or have it on the bottom of the invite and it takes them to their guest hubs. You've still got the lovely tactile moment of reveal and you can do your lovely illustrations. But it means that it still directs everyone to that seamless guest hub so everything's your lips on their phone. But then from there you can do these like the guest questions. So like one we see all the time is what do you want to hear on the dance law? Yeah. And it gets people like committed to the day as well. Yeah. I think in a different way. So as you said, like if you just get the invitation and then it sits on your fridge and then you think oh my god that weddings that weekend. I need to like start thinking about that. Instead this it becomes fun to think about it and you become invested in it as a guest because you think oh they gonna play my favorite song. I like that. I've seen a wedding before where they had they'd asked everyone what their first dance songs were and then they played them all through the drinks reception. And I was like that's the sort of thing where it's likely doesn't cost any more. But if I sat there at a wedding was like oh my god, so my first dance song. Like you've asked me something you've actually listened to what I've said and you like you want me to have a nice time and I think why are we making all this effort to make people have fun at our wedding but not thinking about the fact that they are stressing before you're wedding not knowing. And then you end up with false fun, right? Like you end up with like I'm taking a picture with a funny hat on. I'm actually like really worried that my cap's not going to show up. Yeah. Like people like it stops being genuine. Whereas that's such a genuine moment and it gonna goes back to that point about it being gas-centred because you're just thinking about how I can wrap my guests up into the day in a way that feels really natural and instinctive. And like to me a wedding is yeah obviously it's a celebration of the couple but it's also the people who made that relationship work. Yeah. You know it takes a village and so why not find those fun ways to bring your guests into it. Like I saw one the other day that was having um like what's the word like captains of every table and it was like getting them all on the dance floor and like again you know your friends you know who's gonna thrive with that instruction. Yeah really take it and be like right shots for a while. Yeah yeah we are a team exactly but it you know it just like it likes the load for the host because they think actually I've like recruited my friends and it means that the energy levels just get to stay up that one night. I love a table cup. I'm like I wish I had done table I know all this stuff comes later. I know why I get married. Love you, bro. I know we should get to do it like every. I think you should get to have a wedding maybe not every year but you know I want every five. I think I want a 10 year one. A big 10 year year is even I think we do. Yeah we did we did we did we did we get to do the different themes you should get to do. I'm not winter wonderland. Yeah I want I want all this new stuff. Yeah. What point right I've just got engaged. Yeah I'm buzzing. I'm excited. I've got a lot to do at the start. Yeah guests at the moment are quite low down on my list of things to do. I need to book a venue, a photographer, do the budget, yeah all of this stuff. Where do you think people should stop and be like right guest journey. Yeah I think once you have the shape of your day okay so if you've just got engaged you don't need to worry about it yet. Yeah we're there for you 100% but we're not something you need on board. Yeah what I would say I think it's when you have that format so it's when you know your schedule of events and it's when you've had the freedom to build that on your own terms yes that's when you start to think about okay now I know what my day will look like I have a full understanding and I've shaped it as I want. Now how is my guest going to live that day? That's the moment I think that we come in. And that's when you come in together you build your schedule of events you build your guest list. You start making everything tangible and real and you start bridging the gap between your dreams, your fantasy version of your wedding and your guest and what they're going to experience. I have an issue with people who make timelines. Okay. I because a lot of times that I speak to people. Timelines like planning. No timelines like all the day. But mainly one the day because and the issue is probably with venues because they will tell someone a time and then yeah they make the website they do all this stuff they send it out to people and then I speak to them six weeks before the wedding and I'm like It's timing's a shit. Yeah, but like all of it. I've now have to work around the time you've told people to arrive The time you've told evening guests arrive and the finish time so is there Is there any advice for like Couples to make sure they've got that right before they start putting it out to guests because you can't go back once you've done And again, this is what I mean with fragmented when things start to get because yeah You lay your best-layed plans, right? Yeah, you map it all out and then it starts to erode Little bit by little bit and you start to think oh I probably shouldn't Don't know that yeah half-nourished And then what can you do you feel confined by it? I mean obviously with gathers you can make live updates Yeah, lucky you can update that schedule as much as you want until the IOSVP's close But I think to stop it happening in the first place what I would say is walking the day in your guess shoes That's the only way you can know realistically actually how long does it take and not just how long does it take on Google Go maps to get from one place to another. Yeah How long will it take for people to chat chat chat chat chat either ends yeah, how long will it take what time of day is it is there gonna because I hate to say the world doesn't stop when it's your wedding day There might be traffic I'm so sorry and there might be tube strikes like these things might be going on and so it's like how can you Operate around all of that and keep an eye on it. Yeah, you know and like you'd be mindful of it so that you can be more realistic I think I would be going to my venue This sounds real creepy, but I'm gonna do anyway. I would be the year before yeah, whatever that Saturday I want to go and see what the weather is like What the traffic is like is there a school opposite that I didn't know would be exactly Is that there's a long yeah, yeah, yeah, and you can only know those things by doing it Yeah Absolutely, and I think that can also be really fun I want a date night from it I also think even the idea of like it being a piece of wedmin to do your gather account. Yeah, like it's actually really fun I agree and there is definitely a point in planning where you book all your suppliers in You know what's happening and then you're like ah Don't actually really have anything to do for a year and a half Yeah, like don't tell me that you don't have time to put in place some form of yeah guest Management I guess that's the the term that we need to use for this of however you're going to do it You need something that is ready to answer all these questions because people are annoying One month before you're wedding You will you will want to a lope that is feeling that happens because suppliers all start asking you things and you're like Hold on a minute. I've booked you for two years and you only want to speak to me now. Sorry about that You've got guests that are now it's in the calendar for this month Yeah, and therefore I need to actually think about it. Oh, did you say my child was invited? Did you can I bring little Eddie even though you've had two years to sweat a child care like it is It's an insurance. I think that's what it is and I think just as we were saying that Your wedding is your guest's future problem like that's my future that wedding. Yeah, I've got coming up in my calendar. That's a future me problem You've got the same thing as the host, right? Like if everyone's deferring this as an issue Yeah, you're gonna be catching that issue there and then and you're gonna not gonna want to do that in the week before you're wedding Obviously like that should be like I don't want to say any grid above all that you're protecting And so I think it's that it's that like just like your guests are gonna be pushing that and pushing it and pushing it later like But make it so that they can't push it on to you later. Yes. I think this is a personal opinion I think the bit that's been missing from guest journeys Is that reminder is that I think speaking to people that Currently have wedding websites and I've spoken to someone who's waiting. I'm going to and they're like Nobody reads the fucking website. We've done the website. It actually does have all the information on it We don't need it to be Personalized to people because everyone's doing it whatever it is. They do not read the website Yeah, and I think the bit that's missing because maybe they did read it six months ago when you sent it They can't remember it It is the sending out something that is three months to go to our wedding. Yeah, here's a reminder Absolutely. It's that one one thing that and also how can you know? It's fun ways that people actually engage with as opposed to feeling told off Like I think there is a real feeling like you've not RSVP why you know, it's like how can it not feel like that? How can it all feel as celebratory is the day itself? Yeah, and I think it could be fun and People are missing the personality that comes along with weddings. It does not have to be Like you said a you need to do this. Don't do this. Here's the rules. Don't wear white. It can be more of funny like I remember our website had bits on that there was like the dress code said as long as you don't know why I don't know what you're doing It can be in a nice personal way to be this quarterly invited like no Completely human and real and I want stuff that gets sent out in the leader to to be a kind of countdown to be Yeah, here's what's happening. Here's a little fact that our signature cocktails this like I give away as much as you want. People can kind of anticipate and really look forward to And I also think yeah, I also think the wedding website point about people not really reading it. Yeah, it's so true And I think it's a format problem So I think it's not a host problem. I think that you know All the power to you that you've taken the time to distill all of that information and try to make it gas facing It's tough that gas then don't look at it and then instead they're just asking you directly And you're like go on the website that I've literally hey, I think that's tough that I think what we see on gather is because it lives on your phone People are getting all of their RSVPs like over a hundred RSVPs in like 48 hours or less. Yeah, like 100% response rates And in these like minimal minimal windows. Yeah, it's too easy not to like because you're literally sat there on your phone And you get a message pops up with like a lovely image of your friends who you know are getting married because you've seen this over the day And so you're really excited and it almost like gamifies the RSV process because they can think Great, I can get like a little preview and want to expect I can let you know when I'm available I can let you know who my plus one is or whether I've been invited one or not like you can check all of that You can see what the menu is you can see you know all of the fun information It is awaiting you and then land in your guest hub and you're done That's what it is and then you can go back and that's when you then send out the it's a month to go He's a reminder of everything you said Don't come sit down and tell me you ordered lamb when you didn't Yeah, yeah, yeah, on this list yet printing it up. Yeah, yeah I used to work at catering and I would literally have arguments people there like I definitely order the chicken And I'm like I can see your name Shelley. I know it says chicken like either the brides wrong You can go and tell her that if you want yeah, I'm not gonna yeah um RSVPs are probably the biggest sticking point aren't they they're the bit that Why why are people not RSVPing? I think because it doesn't feel easy. Okay. Why? because It feels like a piece of admin for guests. Yeah, a lot of the time and it shouldn't because it should feel fun It should feel like the entry to a celebration because that's literally what it is But a lot of people have a perception that RSVPs are difficult that they need to look at their calendar And they need to talk to their partner. Yeah, you know, there's like assessments to be done. There's things to consider And while it is true obviously you need to be thoughtful when you're making your RSVP It can be a fun experience and it can be like a first glimpse into what to expect Yeah, and so I think the reason why people struggle to get responses from the RSVPs send out Formats wrong if it's like printed and you're sending them out in the mail or you know people Who has a stamp at home? No, but you have to struggle to get that back to you And if it's a wedding website, it's clunky They're at work when they get it they need to do it when they get home they forget yeah, you know It slips down the agenda it just happens You said reminders to people that have an RSVP to be 100% and the best part is it comes from gather so instead of it being like Come to my way, you've not done your RSVP. It's actually you guys being like Yeah, exactly hi on behalf of this wedding was like As you do RSVP And yeah, so you can nudge as many slower responses you need to I would want it to be a nice nudge like a weekly And then Literally yeah, four times a day Yeah, exactly, but I think it's like Stopping the feeling of your gas being in trouble because I think there's quite a Perception that you need to be really firm with your guests. Yeah, and you need to be really strict with them So like an RSVP deadline essential another thing that will help you get responses in online Um, but it doesn't need to feel hard and restrictive. Yeah, it doesn't need to be you've not RSVP to assume you're not coming You know, yeah, you can keep being warm with your guests because they're your friends Probably and they are you know going to be the energy of the day. I've got another Sticking point Old people love because By wedding website was pretty easy. Yeah gather wasn't around at that time. It was it was a It couldn't have been more obvious. We sent a physical save the day specifically for my nan That had a lovely picture of us and on the back it had the website and a QR code You can type it in or you can take it do ever yeah My nan was not doing a website. Yeah was just categorically not how do we deal with that generation? So I think I mean We don't find that friction in the guest experience when we talked guests They are and hosts especially are always pleasantly surprised the amount of times we get my SM to your old nan was the first to RSVP You know, so Hopefully the platform is intuitive enough that that isn't a problem in the first place If it is there are ways to combat it so you can do your RSVP's host side so you can go through fine If you want to sit with your grandpa or elderly attendee and do it all together You can or you can do on that path fine. Okay. I think - It's just, it's like one website, man. - I know. - But hey, I mean, the barriers to entry are as low as possible. - Yeah. - But, you know, if there's always one-- - There's always one who struggles. - What small details do you think guests appreciate more than what hosts, couples are imagining? - Yeah, so I was thinking about this and I was thinking of again, about those, like the lovely collateral that they all, like the lovely on-the-day moments that you've curated for your guests that feel really fun and playful and I think we're doing a really good job of getting those right and thinking about them with enough time and advance. But to me, it's almost like when you get on a plane and there's like a lovely I mask, like waiting in your scene, you're like, yeah, okay, great. But my flight isn't gonna be dictated by that I mask. My flight is gonna be thinking, okay, what was parking like when I got to the airport? - Yes. - Was there a valley picking me up? - Yeah. - Was there a way to park in? Did I not? Was I fast-tracked through security? - I'm already grumpy by the point you've given me the I mask. - Exactly, it's already too late. And that's the thing. So when does that journey actually begin? It begins the second you get to the airport or even the second you leave your house. It's all those things that's like having clarity of, do I know how much luggage I can take. - Yeah, yeah. - It's just like indicative of the kind of the same situation essentially, then your experience of that 10 hour flight say is gonna be dictated by the information you had going into it. If you don't know what you're gonna be eating on there, you don't know whether to go to prayer and get a sandwich beforehand. - Yeah. - Difficult. - That I'm asking is lovely, but I'm like too late. - Exactly, thank you, but if I'm starving on the plane, I can't eat it. Like, it's not gonna help me very much. - If I known, I would have got, I think it's that saying, isn't it? If I'd known, I would have, I am not expecting, as a guest, I am not expecting, you as the couple to sort out my every need genuinely. - Yeah. - But if I had known, I would have sorted myself out. If I'd known you weren't serving food until 6 p.m, no worries, but I will eat a big breakfast. - Yeah. - If I'd known that we were on a field, I would have walked a block heel. - That's all it is, it's just that. - And it is those specifics. - Yeah. - And it's also giving your guests an opportunity to confer with each other. And by having everything in a centralized place, it means that you can do that, because everyone is given their right honorees and they can go away on their own platforms and they can chat everything they need to about, okay, so now we know what time we're getting picked up, we can organize that taxi together. - Yes. - And now we know what hotels they've recommended, we can book one together. - And then we can get a taxi together. - A two there, we can get exactly. - So it just helps everyone have all the information they need to circulate as easily as possible. - What do you think then flipping it the other way around? What do you think that guests are expecting that is too much to be expecting? - I think too much to be expecting. Probably your time as the host. - Yes. - I think maybe is something which, because that's the one thing you can't really predict or dictate. - Out source. - Yeah, yeah. You might think it's too much for them to expect fruit drinks all night, or you might think it's too much for them to want to be fed throughout the whole day. And that's fair enough, you have to work the constraints that feels difficult to you, but also usher them along. So if you're not going to feed them for lunch, then let them know what options they're up. But there's no NAS down the road, you're going to be alright. - I think it's your time, I would say, because it's the one thing that is so precious to you and the one thing that just flies away on your wedding day. - Yeah. - And you shouldn't be allowed it the week of actually. If that effort has been made to make you feel looked after and you've got all the information, do not respectfully. Do not speak to me. Do not ask me questions if it's not on their first. - Yeah, 100%. - And I think in saying that, because you won't have access to your host's time, the entire time you're out there waiting. Obviously, they've got lots of people to speak to, but also they want to have the time to themselves. And if you are honest and transparent about what that's going to look like in the lead up, then people know what to expect, and then they won't feel short-changed. So for example, I always love the idea of having a breakfast just with my fiance the morning of our wedding. - Yeah. - It doesn't mean that I'm not going to give everyone else breakfast and they can go and have their own at the venue. But it just means that I'm not going to be there for it. So that instead, you're reframing that. That's a moment for guest to mingle. That's a moment for you guys to all have fun while we have our little moment. Same for if you're doing like an hour worth of photos after ceremony. Like you've got your own schedule running in tandem to your guest schedule, and they don't need to know all of that. But they might want to know some elements or needs to know that there's drinks at least at least time. So you have someone to advocate for that. Maybe your maid of honor is being recruited. She's top dog now. And she's the one usuring people around while you're going off to your photos. So I think your host, as a host, your time is the most finite resource in your wedding. And so if you can put things in place that give guest transparency over what that means for them, then you're going to be in a good position. I'm trying to think about. I'm trying to think fairly about both guests and couples. And it is all of that part of finding that balance between. It is our day. But I want you to have a nice day. Yeah. But I agree with everything you've been saying that what we've been doing is thinking so much about on the day when actually it's so set by prior. Yeah. The whole attitude and mood is kind of defined by that bit. What do you think then? If I'm coming to. No, you're coming to my wedding. Congratulations. You've been invited. What do you. Ignore the fact of what do you need to know in terms of we said the hotel or the. What do you need from me to make sure that you don't feel stressed coming into my wedding and that you're going to bring a vibe to that? So how many touch points do you think you need? How much involvement do you need? How much do you need to kind of actually be told? Like if I'm saying to you, I would like money for a wedding. Do I need to tell you how much money? Is that rude? Like what do you need? What do you need? Yeah, I think clarity is like everything you need in one word. Because that is the fundament, basically, is transparent clarity. But I think you as a host need to dictate what that means for you. So for example, that's a really good point about get fund. Yeah. People really get stressed about I get fund. So cool. The amount of round tables I've been on of people being like, "Okay, well, I've already spent this on that wedding." I've already spent that. But they think this and they think that. And I know they're going here, so should I give them this? It's so stressful. And so like. Yeah. I mean, if you can be transparent. Maybe you should. Is it rude? Is it rude? I mean, if you did, I guess you'd have to have levels, but then are you ranking me? No, I don't really keep what they say. It's tough. If I was going to ask you how much. Yeah. I'm just kicking the props under. Trying to get comfortable, right? If I was going to ask you, you'll come into my wedding. I've invited you. You know me and Brian. We're having a great time. It's going to be a nice wedding. There is a bit of a rule around you should pay the amount it costs to have you for dinner. That's a kind of all-wise tale of it. Okay, yeah. How much money are you giving us to start our married lives together for a honeymoon? How much of a ice-battern? In the leader. How much of ice-battern is it? It's black-tie. It's black-tie. It's black-tie. Destination? No, it's in the UK. It's not close. You're going to want to stay overnight. We've got a free bath. We've done drinks for you. You're well looked after. Okay. You are going to need a new outfit. You are going to need to stay over and you are going to need to sort transport. Am I bringing a plus one? Yeah, we know your partner. Okay. So you've invited us both to get to coming. Yeah. Have you said what you're using it towards? Honeymoon. Honeymoon. Okay. When it comes to a honeymoon fund, I like grounding it in something real. Okay. Because I want to know what the payoff of that cash is, right? Yeah. So, like, for example, how much is a round of drinks or how much is a bottle of champagne? Something along those lines. I would say you've invited me and my partner to your wedding and you've invited me to the whole day. Yeah. I would say a nice enough or a nice dinner for the two of you on your honeymoon. Yeah. How much? From both of us. Together. What is going on in that card? I'd say 150. All right. Okay. You should bet. Yeah. I think the 75 each. Yeah. That's like, that's a decent. You think the dinner principle. Yeah. So you're saying you've paid for a dinner for me. I've been doing this for a long time. Yeah. I've spent a lot of my own money and also had to book time off. Well, yeah. Maybe I had to book childcare. Yeah. You know, like, there are a lot of things to consider. You've spent a dinner on me. I'll give you a dinner back. I'll give you 75 good ahead for my partner. I would say the average is probably £50 ahead. Yeah. That's what I would say. So you are sitting. So you've got an extra drink on us. Yeah. I think you're not too. It's difficult. It's these conversations have been able to. But also, and this is an awful question. But if I'm going to a lower standard wedding, am I giving less money? If not, if it's okay, we're comparing my wedding, you then get married and you're not doing a free bar. I'm, it's, I've just come into the evening. I'm like, do I then give you this money? I need some of that. I think, I think when it comes to like the financial burden on the guest, I think it's fair to expect that to eat into their budget for your gear. Definitely. But then I think when it comes to like the scale of the wedding, because you can have a really intimate wedding, but it'd be like the most thoughtfully curated and the most wonderful day that still was a high investment from the couple. So I don't think it's that that dictates how much you should spend. I think it is what you're able to give and the context of that. Yeah. like because also So if you're going to multiple weddings a year, how are you budgeting for that? Are you budgeting for that? Have you got an annual wedding attendee budget port that we're pretty good at ports? And I haven't got a wedding attending poll. I know, but that's the thing. So it depends completely on how the guest is budgeting. Yeah. And I would, this is rude. I would expect different amounts from different people. I'm not expecting the same amount from you and a student. Because in the same way, every guest should have a personalized identity in a reading. Every guest should have personalized expectations from them because their situations are different. And in my mind, isn't it rude to blanket your guests and think, have the same expectations, both of what they can do on the day, what they should be coming to on the day? Just as it would be rude for a guest to say, like, your friend from uni who you've not seen in a year, it would be rude for them to expect to have the same experiences you're made of on it. 100%. So surely it is valid. There are different pressures on them, too. Yes, just hard to read these things. Ah, nevermind, Phil. And they're not that-- There's so many lovely bits of weddings. And I think the reason that people listen to the podcast and things about is to hear that there are other people struggling with this. Yeah, they're the only person being like, why is this not fun? Like, why is this not as enjoyable as I thought it was going to be? Because it's not. Because you've got all of these little problems. I know. And I think that's one of the reasons that we found together because it shouldn't feel like that. I hate the idea of feeling that way. Especially when you're spending so much money on it. I like what you say about, but you're investing in your bridal era, which I think is very-- A very long-time way of living out of it. Also very due. Because it's like, this should be a rewarding experience for you and for your partner. It should be something that brings you together. It should be something that feels joyful and light and fun. And so how can you manage Weddmen, both of which are heavy times? How can you do that in a way that actually creates space for the joy of celebration? And I think using-- when you use a platform that's built by experts, who have been around the block and have seen hundreds of thousands of weddings, you know that everything there is vital. So for us, it's not like when you go on a wedding website and they want your engagement story and how did you meet and please put a gallery of images in. Because this is probably the first time you're doing this, right? So maybe you do feel the need to do that. But it might not feel natural to you. But you feel like, OK, this is what people do when they get married. You know, they wear this type of makeup. And this is bridal. It kind of falls into that camp of expectation. When it shouldn't, it should be completely self-defined. And you're doing it on your own terms. Yeah. Weddings, man. Weddings. I have quickfire questions for you. They're not going to be quickfire. No. Brian hasn't given us the eye yet, though. So it makes me feel OK. Like, oh, no, the curtain just moved, guys. Quickfire, then. OK. Biggest guest experience mistake. Not personalizing the itineraries and having everyone show up to the wrong thing. Love it. Most overrated wedding detail. Oh, and probably anything is probably table decor. Oh, sorry. You said the candles are set the tone. I-- well, OK. This isn't quickfire, sorry. But-- But-- I think table decor, when it's like form over function-- OK. That makes sense. Yes. I see a lot when there's a style to you, and there's six plates all piled up. And I'm like, yeah, that doesn't logistically work. Nobody has to explain anything. Exactly. That's what I mean. I don't mean I'm not coming for table skates. I love a table skate. All I mean is when it's the beauty of it, or the pure aesthetic of it, is prioritized over the actual function of the show. I think your example of the aeroplane is the perfect way to be thinking about this. I could think-- I could get on a plane. It could be clean and tidy. And I've got a little bag. And the little bag will make me happy. It will. I really like it. And if it's got my name on it, oh, check this. If I-- Please, you can't. Oh, my god. I really want to go first class once in my life. I know. Is this fine? Is that? I want-- And I talk a lot about the brides, the morning of your wedding dictates that day. Because if you've had a stressful morning, you can't shake it. It's the same for the guests. It is that same feeling of-- If you've been stressing-- She's a hurry that energy with you for the rest of the day. And I expect everyone to be stood up and dancing in dance and all night. And I want to keep my dance full full and blah, blah, blah, blah. But I want that without putting in any effort prior. And it doesn't seem fair. And maximum results minimal at 100%. Most underrated wedding detail. Information on these names. But to be more specific, my son would go, I keep going back to parking, which makes me sound so dull. But I do think it's just because I-- My boyfriend's one of those people who literally will Google Maps. And he will drive the route on Google Maps. And he will be where it's the car park. I said you a nice guest pack. You do a car. Oh my god. And you know that brought me much more joy than if you sent me load of flowers to say, can't wait to come to me. Because I knew what I was coming to. And you do then turn up on time, inform, not stressed, not worried about anything we sit in. I have a chat. Like, it does set an expectation. And I think this sounds rude, but I'm going to turn it into a positive. I have set the standard to you by sending you that. But I expect you to then come with that same standard of 100%. This is-- Yeah, especially-- Especially the word for this before wedding, obviously. It's been said what you're saying about-- If you sent the benchmark of saying this is black tie wedding, your guest's expected black tie wedding. Yeah. It's kind of the same thing where you're saying, I'm giving you an unrivaled guest experience. I expect-- An unrivaled level of guest. Energy there, you know, it is kind of the same. You're not allowed to say parking for this. What do guests care about most? Guests care about feeling seen. Fair. And that means different things for everyone. But I think it just means-- for me, it's all about this little detail. So the idea that the caterers know exactly who has what direct requirements. They don't need to go and say, high table seven. I know we've got two vegetarian. And then they have to put their hands up almost in shape. It shouldn't be the way at all. It's that it rives there for them. And they've been thought through. And they think, oh, wow, that's a really nice detail. It's those kind of specific things that make your guest feel seen and heard and known as they should on a day that's all about love and celebration and togetherness. I think we forget how naturally selfish everyone is. We can pretend people aren't. But at somebody else's wedding, you are sat there thinking about yourself, thinking, I need a drink now. I'm not really-- It's not really my job to worry if the bride's got it. I want her to have the best time ever. But naturally-- I am thirsty. And I am pretty good at me. And fair enough. And so I think anticipating those needs is what it's all about. So it's knowing what's on the horizon for your guests. So it's like knowing when they literally need to sit down and have a glass of water. And that's-- you're not being unfun by thinking about that. In fact, your storing energy levels for more fun later on. But you're just being practical. Just like practical. What do couples think guests care about, but they don't? They think guests care about the tangible moments and the visual moments. They think just as you do if you're getting married, you probably do care about how it reads on Instagram. Realistically, we live in a social generation. And I think that's fair enough. That I think they think their guests care about that. They think they care about what their Instagram carousel is going to look like or what fun thing they can take home with them. And while that's a really great, nice to have, what they really care about is how they felt on the day. It's how they felt throughout the entire experience and how seamless and considered the details were. Most important thing on an iOS VP. Name. [LAUGHTER] Do you know how many people forget exactly-- I know. But it's like when you do your exams and you like fill in the whole paper and you put your name on it. I mean, name obviously attendance pretty much. Probably from a host perspective, probably whether they can bring a plus one or not. Because that opens up a whole minefield of questions. So being clear about either who is invited. Not just, yes, if there is a plus one. But also, if there isn't, you need to be clear about that too. Least important thing on an iOS VP. Dress code. Oh. Maybe not dress code for Leigh Book color palette. I would say, if you have to rank it, it's great. And I agree. I'm putting color palette above dance song. What makes it guess you're more considered? I think having their song closed, I do know. Given what if I went to the wedding in a bright future dress and it was actually black, black and white? Well, you would know that because they would be black and white dress. I just want to know, I wish people would put on there the level of-- Yeah. Am I going all out? Am I going big? I think a dress code is good, but I think a lot of people don't know what dress code means. So saying cocktail attire-- And if you Google cocktail attire, it's actually different to what the person means. Exactly. And so I think you have to be specific. Even when people say black tie. Everyone's wrong when they say black tie. I don't mean black tie. So the boys find it's easy enough. But for the girls, I don't know what you mean by that. And also, it depends on what part of the day I'm coming to on how black tie black tie is. Yeah. And where are we in the world? It depends on all these things. So I think a few little examples of what you mean. Yes. Are couples forgetting their hosts? I think they can do. I think, yes. I try and tell my couples that their job is to host. My job is to worry and stress and run it. - Yeah. - Your job is to be the person that's like, hey, welcome. I think that's true 'cause I guess it's host to me feels laborious. - But maybe it shouldn't. Maybe host is your right. It's you are hosting, like you're a hostess. - Yeah. - You are bringing the energy in the vibe and are the convening power of the party? - Yeah. - Like which is the job of a host? So I think couples do forget that they're host because they can fall into either camp. They can fall into the camp of, it's not my job. I'm my sole job of the day is to be the bride, yeah, whatever. Or they can fall into the, okay, I hope everyone's having a good time. How can I make this as amazing as possible for everyone and compromising their own experience? - There's such a line of that. Yeah, I think there's that middle ground that you're saying of that being host is just, I know I've put everything in place and I know I've outsourced what I need to outsource and now I'm just gonna like, like, solo-try the day exactly. It's like the whole swan thing, I think. The host is like the swan on the surface and then the fenders are the best. - Yeah, yeah, yeah, there's multiple swans here. - Yeah, exactly. - And I think that's the combination. So it's that you don't need to just be one or the other. It's like the teamwork. What something that guests complain about privately but not publicly? Oh my God, so many things. They complain about, they complain about the hotels as big one out here about pricing of rooms. - Pricing of rooms. Or they sent me a booking link but it didn't work and I didn't wanna go back to them and tell them it didn't work. So I just did it independently but means I lost the discount. It's stuff like that. - Yeah. - That's a finicuity that people get wrong. Guys complain about that. They complain about who isn't invited. I think there's a big one. Don't want your child there. - I know. Like, just come on now. - Exactly, they will complain about that. And realistically, everyone will find something to complain about. But I think it's knowing what falls into your remat as host and that doesn't. - And I think it's the thing of, if you do it privately, I'd just whatever. - Yeah. - Whatever. You're not gonna like everything at my wedding and I don't want you to. The wedding is not for you. The wedding is with you. And it's that bit of, I'm not going to, and that's the bit we were trying to get across at the start is the guest centric doesn't mean I want it all to be perfect for you. But I want you to have a nice time. I have always said to people, it's like having a dinner party at home. And that goes for guests and hosts. So if I'm inviting you to my house for a dinner party, you're not telling me where you're sitting. You're not telling me who you're bringing in. - Who you're bringing in. You're gonna bring your kid even though I haven't invited your kid. You're not gonna say you didn't like the food. You're gonna turn up at the time of us. You just turn up. Wearing what I've asked you to wear if I have said that. And you're gonna sit down and you're gonna enjoy the food. - Exactly. - But I'm still gonna make it nice for you. - Exactly. And it is as simple as that. And maybe you're gonna bring a bottle of wine or maybe some flowers. But you're gonna, as I guess, you're gonna be thoughtful. So you're gonna show up on time. You're gonna bring a gift if it's appropriate. You're gonna look the par. You're gonna bring the energy in the vibes. Just as the host is kind of delivering. - I'm gonna make sure there's a chair for you. I'm gonna make sure there's background music playing. I'm gonna make sure you're fed the food that you like. - Yeah. - Okay, I'm gonna feed you the food you're not allergic to. - Yeah. - But it is a given take. - And I think that's the bit that both sides are forgetting. - Yeah. - And this is hopefully, hopefully this episode is helping people put themselves in the situation of a guest. - Yeah. - If you have done all of this stuff, if you are sending out the month before, if you are doing it, and people are still moaning, get rid of them. - Get rid of them. You cannot do more than that. Like there's got to be a line where we stop and go. - We've got to be about everything. - Exactly. And I think that if you start from a point of clarity and you know what clarity looks like for you on your terms for your wedding, and you know that you've given all the information, not that you can, but all the information that they need, right? You've been, you've critically assessed what they need. And if you've delivered all of that, then you know that you've done all you can do. And then you can sit back and you can say, I've given you everything that you need for this day. And you can have full faith in that being true, because you've thought about it in advance. - Yeah. I want to end the quick fires with the 10, if you can only put 10 things on your invitation, on your guest management. What are the 10 things? Okay. Date. - Yeah. - Location. - Time. - Yep. - Menu type, if not the full menu, at least the scale, so like banquet style. - Yeah, yeah. - Whatever it's gonna be so people know what to expect. And I would say schedule of the day, so that people know, including buffer periods, named buffer periods, not just a gap. Transport, yep. Hotel, yep. Plus one, yes or no, whether they can have one, whether they can't or who their guest like party is in the family, et cetera. - Just code, just code. You're allowed one more. - Oh, I'm allowed one more parking. (laughing) - I was waiting for you to say that, I was like, she said transport, she doesn't put it to parking. - We always end the podcast on a secret from the society, so people messaging, and I basically need your opinion on it. - Okay. - I've picked one that's suitable, don't I? Hey, absolutely over the podcast, thank you. I have a question, rather a debate that's happening in our household. We're guests coming from overseas. I think we should be providing travel information, taxi numbers, airport details, hotels, things to do in the area, breakfast spot, the list goes on. My husband says that I'm being too over the top, but I just wanna make sure that they feel looked after. Who's right? - You're right. You should 100% be offering, at least the practical detail. - Yeah, definitely. I mean, I think again, think about it from your perspective, if you landed in a country that you're unfamiliar with, to attend someone's event, they're your host. - Yeah. - They're hosting you in that country at that wedding. I think you at least owe them the ban minimum. And I think, I thought you're gonna say, shall I pay for them to come over? Not, shall I? - Give them the number of a taxi. You should definitely give them kind of a bare bones version of what their travel journey looks like in the context of the wedding. But I do always say that, I think if you're doing a destination wedding or if it's a destination for someone, like if you are coming from overseas, it's always nice to give them at least a few recommendations of what to do. - I just think I'm not. - To take, to do that. - And I use it together. - Totally. And even in the way if people come to my home city, and I'm not even seeing that, might give them recommendations, just because you have preferences. And you have places to avoid places you recommend. I think it's always nice to give your guests who are coming to a destination one, at least one thing that's not to do with your wedding, because their trip isn't just about that you're wedding realistic. - I guess you're setting the tone then by being like, here's some stuff that you can do. Nothing to do with me. Here's some ideas. - Yeah. - A.K. also thought yourself, I'm not looking after you for the entire weekend. - Exactly. That's the thing. It does exactly do that, because it sets these boundaries of, I'm saying you have free time. You're not spending all your time with me. - Yeah, I'm gonna be busy. - Fill it up. - Yeah, exactly. And so I think it's not that you need to make an identity for them, but I think giving them a few pointers, giving them some advice, giving them at least the number of the tax that you have is to be expected. - I think we forget how stressful travel is for some people. And sometimes it's hard, because especially couples that are destination couples, they're travel people. - They know what they're doing. They use to it. - Some people are not. - Some people are going in blind and just like tell me what to do. I think if you give people options and you give them ideas, you then are passing that over to them. - Exactly. - Because the question really isn't, should we give them this information? It's how do you want them to show up to your wedding? Do you want them to show up rested, having had a really easy transit, having been interested and occupied, doing other things, having had a really full experience of the country you're hosting in. If you want it to be all those things, then set those things in motion for them. Give them the number of the taxee, give them a recommendation for a hotel, give them things to do in the day. - Yeah, I agree with you. And there are always points in planning where you have a little bit more time and a little bit more headspace. And that's the time to just sit down, smash out. I know you're not going to want to hear this guys. It would take a couple of hours, really. - It's one evening to sit down and do a little. - I always say make it a day, like make it fun. Especially when you're making a gather account, you're basically like reviewing your celebration. It's kind of a fun thing to think like, yeah, I did book that venue when I booked it for a reason and now I get to look at a lovely picture of it. - Yes. - And like all the details that I've really carefully thought through, like it's kind of a fun recap of everything that you've done. And it's the opportunity to share that with the people you love most. - We need to hold tight to those fun experiences in wedding planning because they are not constant. - No, do it over a coffee date with your partner, do it over a bottle of wine at home, like make an event of it. - I like thinking of romanticising different points of wedding planning. So let's just romanticise that element. - Yeah, exactly. - And then it's all happy. Can you please tell everyone how they can find gather, how they can find you, how they can even get started or if they want to look at like what you do? - Yeah. So you can see everything gather does on socials at gatherguests and you can discover the platform at hellogather.com. - So easy, seamless. Look at that. If that was an intro to a wedding, I'm happy. That's a-- - But it's not a thing. - You know it's my wedding, the tomb. (laughing) - Thank you so much for coming on. - Thank you for having me. - Go and check out gather. Honestly, it's fantastic. As you know, I do not recommend things that I wouldn't have done myself. And if I was gonna get married or if me and Brian do our renewal in 10 years' time, you will see it via gather. (laughing) Make sure you like, subscribe, go check it gather and I will see you next week. - Goodbye.