Hanging with Earl Carpenter

"Hey, I'm Ariana Grande, hi, I'm Sydney O'Revo, and you're listening to the Broadway podcast network. Visit vpm.fm to discover them." Shakespeare can be intimidating. For artists, for audiences, people often put Shakespeare on a pedestal or try to dumb it down. We're doing neither. We're taking these texts that still resonate in so many ways and handing them to a diverse set of today's most exciting playwrights and saying, "What would you do? How would you translate this into contemporary English verse from your perspective, using your knowledge and your artistry? We're here to decolonize and democratize Shakespeare because these stories are for everyone." Visit playonshakespeer.org to find a modern verse translation of Shakespeare and get the playwright back in the room. Hi folks, in this episode, I was truly excited to finally get some time to hang with English actor Earl Carpenter. I met Earl years ago in the workshop of Lehman's Wrap and since then, our friendship has grown. Initially, it was the jobs that would bring us together and then we just wanted to hang. Earl has had a prolific stage career and his credits are endless. He has traveled and performed around the world. Earl was the phantom of the opera when I stepped into that show for the first time as Raul. He's one of our finest actors and I've looked up to Earl for a long time. He's constantly looking at creative outlets and has produced many concerts and shows as well. Earl has had many career highlights but today, Earl was candid in his conversation. He talked about rediscovering joy and gratitude, dealing with mental health while he navigates through this new transition in his life, learning to adapt, to grow, to accept, perhaps even to a tone. All this, with a career that spans over 20 years, I was really moved by his camera. Okay, do you know what you're doing? Honestly, I got to press these buttons. Let's do a selfie. Oh wait, it's you. The other camera. Oh yeah, I broke that side. This is going really well. I know. I might even leave this bit in. What's over what are we looking at? I don't know. I turned the phone up. I can't take a selfie anymore. Day 37. Ladies and gentlemen, he's already laughing. One of my favorite people on and off stage. Hello, Karl Fender. Hello, Rameen, Karen Blue. How are you, bud? I'm good. This is crazy. What are you doing? What is this? That's all I love. You walked up. What is this? What are you doing? Well, it's called the hang. It's a podcast that already dropping things, Broadway podcast network, and Sony kind of supported me to do and thought it'd be a good idea that I do. I still don't know if it's a good idea that I do this. However, what made me want to do it, because look, you know how life gets busy, we don't live near each other, so this gives us a chance to hang. I get it. Oddly, it's on Mike, but what I've noticed from the couple I've done so far, things we get to talk about, like if we got together normally, we would have a great time to talk, but we wouldn't talk about necessarily things we're about to talk about. No, I get that. I think that's true for everybody, though, isn't it? And it gives me a chance, and you're not going to like hearing this, and I'm sure my previous guests won't. I'm still a fan of my friends, so now I can be a fan. I'm smiling at this point of you. Obviously people can't see that, but I am smiling. But it gives me a chance to be the fan. So that's interesting, because it's, so I'm going through this very weird chapter, and one of those things is about, I keep having little Earl, young Earl, keeps kind of looking in on where I am, for whatever reason. This has been happening in the last year, and just having moments of reality about where I am, and what I've done. Whereas there have been, over the last three years or so, you tend to get the impression that what I've done doesn't mean anything. It means nothing. It has no value, it has no worth. But whether it's a self-conscious thing, but I've had little Earl kind of looking in on what I'm doing, and he wouldn't have ever believed that I have done the things that I've been done. Been done? Hello? That I've been doing in English, please. Thank you. Over the last 10 years or so, you know, and that's, you know, working with you on Toronto and Broadway, and little Earl would never have kind of imagined that. And I had another moment like this the other day. We were doing the kind of meet and greet for the pirate queen that we just don't have the Colosseum, and Proudmisch Orschhornberg was there, and we had the kind of big circle, everyone saying their names, what they had for tea. And Proudmischhorn was like, well, you know, it's so nice to see so many people. I don't know anyone here. Oh, I know Earl. And all of a sudden, I like, I had this massive smile going, "Cloudmischhornberg's just can't, I don't know anyone." Oh, but I know Earl. And it was just bizarre, and it's so weird. And then all of a sudden, you kind of go, that's a lovely little moment, and I'll hang on to that. And I don't know what that's about. I don't know where that's come from, but it seems to be getting me through things, whereas before, you know, especially when you're following social media, of course, everyone's, you know, nine times out of 10, giving the impression that life is amazing, and it's going so well. Whereas actually, and I think, if I'm right and saying, this is also another kind of prong of your, what you're doing now, the fact that we can be honest, and we can chat about things that are important. And things that people don't think that maybe that we experience or go through or have to deal with. Yeah, and when I saw one of your tweets, it must have been a year or so ago, it struck my chord in my heart, because I, Earl, you have one of the most prolific CVs of friends that I know. I hope to have even half the career you've had, you know what I mean, or have, and are continuing to add to it. It's not bizarre. And I think you're okay with me talking about, because you were hashtagging mental health awareness. It's a massive, massive importance. I take it away. I'm like, I'm just checking in to let you know, I love you and I was appreciated. What was going on? Gosh, I think it was, I mean, a lot of it was to do with having come to the, what I considered a chapter was a very beloved producer friend of ours, Mr. Cameron McIntosh, and having come to the end of what I believed to be it, it was really weird. Having finished the Lemus-Rab in Manila and Singapore, and how that kind of wrapped up and concluded for me, I honestly thought that was it. That was my career done and over, and there was a passage of time, as well, when you realised that my custodianship of all those roles that I'd been fortunate enough to have over the years, it's done. It's done and dusted. And that, I wasn't ready or prepared for that. And it reminded me of Michael McCarthy, who was my Javeir when I first joined Lemus. And mine. Really? Yeah, that's amazing. And again, you know, a gorgeous man, a talented man, and you realise, gosh, I've actually, what must have Michael have felt when, you know, other people were then taking over the role of Javeir? And I kind of was in that place when I suppose, you know, for whatever I was doing, I was kind of favourite to play Javeir for the amount of times I had. And then, all of a sudden, your time is done, and your circumnavigated to the next person who's responsibility it is. And I wasn't ready for that. I was not ready for the fact that, and obviously being the age, I'm out of 50 this year, and I wasn't ready for that either. And it's just all these things that you think, gosh, I wish theatre school had told me about all these things to look out for, you know, when you get older, it'll bite you, you know, when you feel that your careers are over, that'll, that'll be, and it's just, it was just one thing after another, and just not having the tools to be able to understand it. And I think at that time, there was a podcast that I did in the UK for a company called Industry Mines. And it was the first time I'd actually spoken about all the things that I had been made aware of, all the things that I just didn't anticipate that I would have to be dealing with. You know, in the beginning of last year, I had to find a normal, proper job. And, you know, and I wasn't ready for that. I wasn't, you know, I'd been so lucky, touchwood, for 23 years of working solidly, back to back, contract to contract, and then all of a sudden, because of this chapter that I mean, this kind of transition, let's call it, I had to find a normal job. And that was so weird. And it was debilitating, mentally debilitating, because you thought, well, I was, my career all of a sudden had gone, and it was worthless. It didn't mean anything. All that energy that I'd put into what I was doing now, my industry doesn't want me, or has no place for me, or I feel like I'm not allowed to do the job that I had trained to do. And that just screwed with my head. And I didn't know what transferable skills I had, you know, what does that mean entering into the muggles world of proper nine to five, or something that, you know, could pay the bills. And it was just an extraordinary process. And as you say, you know, when you do have people look at your career and kind of go, oh my god, that's amazing. I have to put my hand up and go, yeah, it's, it's amazing. And I'm, believe me, I'm so grateful for the opportunities that I've had over the years for sure. But it doesn't guarantee longevity. No. And that's scary. And it was a real, you know, it was a real lesson to learn. But you never struck me as someone who assumed longevity. The way I know, Earl, and the artist, Earl, when I've worked with you, you are hungry every day, like you can't play. Yeah. And that's, I think that's a byproduct of my, my apprenticeship, never rely on people to give you work, never rely on the agent to call, you know, which is why I, you know, which is why I've kind of had this producing entity as well to run alongside being a performer. So at least you're mentally keeping busy. You know, we're, we're our down times that we've had over the years in Canada or America or whatever here. We've, you know, we've had moments of, well, what can we do something? And that, that is interesting. And it keeps the mind active. Even those things might not come to fruition. But it's, so you've just got this constant dialogue. So that was always part of my persona, I suppose. But actually realizing, you know, when other people are getting more work or you'll be, or other people are being favoured over you now, and you do, you do realize, like I said, that kind of chapter, that custodianship. See, anyway, I can, I see where I could use actually, of those roles was coming to an end. Would you have wanted to continue? I would at least have. So that's an interesting conversation, because I think many, and probably there's a part of my inside would probably say, no, I wouldn't. But I would have preferred to have the opportunity to have made that decision. I get that. And again, it's been, I mean, the last two years have been also extraordinary when you do look back. And you kind of go, yeah, I was an idiot on some of those contracts. I didn't conduct myself, probably in the best way that I could have. And it's been, and that's what was so interesting, and a bit of a lifeline, I have to say, thrown by Cameron to go back into the Lemus concert last year, and just to go in as Bermattaboy. And I just thought, well, knowing the chapter and the way that my last time with Cameron had concluded, I thought, no, I need to do this. And I'm so pleased I did. And it made me realize that my CV hasn't been taken away from me, just because I'm not working as vehemently or in as such a bigger persona as I was. I'm still still there. Yeah. People know who I am for that. And you forget that and you realize, oh, actually, no, actually, my CV does have a little bit of worth. It has a lot of work. Well, I, but I'm beginning to understand them, and I'm beginning to not feel so empty. I think it's more of a case now that I appreciate that, actually, no, I have got, you know, all those credits on my CV. But I do seem to still be working. I do seem to be hanging on in there, doing different things. And again, going back to that original mindset, which was I'm a working actor, end off, doesn't matter who I am, what I've done or whatever, I'm a working actor. And rather than going, oh, yes, you know, I'm on Broadway doing Javier. And all of that. Well, I'm the phantom. And, you know, no, actually, it's about now I'm a jobbing actor. I've gone back to that again. And that's been healthy. And that's been nice. Yeah, I get that. I understand that, you know, exactly like you're doing right here now. You're doing exactly the same thing. You know, you're not resting on the opportunities that you have created and keep you going. But you've, you've branched out, you know, and you've gone down the TV route, which is amazing. And we have to talk about that. Thank you very much. But you're also sat here in a little studio of Tottenham Court Road doing what you're doing. And it's always about, and you too have always been that type of, okay, what can I do? What can I do? What can I do? You know, and it, that is what will create longevity. Is that quest to improve and get put out of your comfort zone? Like for me, this is a privileged way of being out of my comfort zone, because I'm supported by people that set up a podcast. But I never thought, I'm going to be good at this. But I could learn by talking to people. Yeah. But this is what it's about, isn't it? That's what these things were about. And then about finding, finding honesty in what you talk about. And actually, getting rid of the facade. Don't we need to do that as artists? Oh, yes. But for whatever reason, whether it be through social media, you know, and that kind of shield that provides sometimes. Yeah, that's a way not my head and heart. It's really difficult. It's such a difficult, such a fine line to kind of, because I appreciate, and we've just been to China with three phantoms. And I'd never experience such extraordinary love, genuine love from fans. Never experience. I mean, that's not to say that, you know, the things I have experienced, particularly in America, I mean, I'd never, I mean, that was just barmy. I always remember me trying to hide behind the children of like not doing the signature line. I just, it was so alien to me. But you embrace it. But this, the reaction from the Chinese fans, because they don't get a great deal of musical theatre. And this is, you know, these are, these are people that have come to see us in anywhere around the world. And it was just extraordinary. Shakespeare can be intimidating. We're doing neither. We're taking these texts that still resonate in so many ways and handing them to a diverse set of today's most exciting playwrights and saying, what would you do? We're here to decolonize and democratize Shakespeare because these stories are for everyone. Visit playonshakespeer.org to find a modern verse translation of Shakespeare and get the playwright back in the room. Was that your first time there? Yes. I'm not visiting, working yes, but not visiting. So what was that like? It was extraordinary. Like I've never been. And I know I get a lot of, on social media, you never come to Japan. I'm like, I'm not choosing not to go. Yeah. I'm not being invited. I love to go. It is incredible. I have to say, it was absolutely incredible. And we went with a team with some people who have never been to China before. They had a big team, you took. I saw those fours and you were on a great wall. It was well, right? That's right. We were so looked after. I mean, we were looked after in a way that I'd never imagined. And everyone, it became more about it being a commercial success to it being a real collaboration and a real, I mean, the team that I went with, there was 15 in the company. And again, everyone just embraced everything. The Chinese team that we had, the production team, were just amazing. We ended up being quite a lovely little touring family. And everyone who came with a perception of China, the things that we see, the things that we read. Well, what we're forced to read, what we think. Exactly. But when people experienced the kindness, the genuine kindness, it's in the same round as the Japanese as well. I mean, they just embrace. And obviously, we as Brits are very wary of that sometimes. But it was just so lovely to kind of go, no, this is just nice. It's just lovely. But you also run as the importance of elements of social media. You know, there is, you know, it is an opportunity to have a window into someone's life. But it's, but are you doing a disservice by feeding what you think people want or what it is you want? But then you then in that like, well, if I feed what I think people want, then the likes and everything are good. But if I put something on there, you know, it's like putting like a photograph that I might have shared with you and me or John or Alfie, then you know, it's like a thousand likes or something. I put a photograph of me and my horse gets about 17 likes. And you think, but my horse is more important to me that no disrespect really. Oh, well, that was that sort of that horse that I saw you with that broke my heart. Yeah. And you just think that's more important. That fuels me so much more. And so you could, but you kind of go, but so what do I do? What do I do? Well, tell me how much do you care about that? Well, that's, and that's the dichotomy of the situation. I care because I'm a creative. I have an ego. I care about my presence in the industry, obviously, because I still want to work in the industry. Do you think the lack or the amount of likes on a photo is assigned towards? Well, I think you go through, you go through a stage of thinking that, yes, that has an effect, but actually it doesn't. And I'm learning that it doesn't. It doesn't really matter. Because the minute you do put up something that's of show related, then the response is great. And you kind of go, oh, okay, okay, all right. Then I accept the fact that, you know, some people just want to know about my life and musicals. There are some people that like my photography and there are some people that like me running around a stable and mending electric fences and stuff like that. You know, it's, it's actually okay. It doesn't matter just because one thing gets a gazillion likes and the other does them to make a difference. So that working on, where were you working? What was it called, where you were working? Oh, Northington stables, which is kind of in the middle of Hampshire. How long were you working there for? I still have. I still go and mend stables and things like that. How is your head and heart when you're out there now? I love it. It's incredible. It's beautiful because you're outside in the country, you know, doing things with electric fences and stables and woodwork and all the things that I love doing. And then, you know, to add to it, you think it a horse come up to you and go, what are you doing? What's that? You're amazing creatures are they? They're incredible. And which is why we, you know, we saved this particular horse. So we, we basically bought him in the country. I own a horse now, which is just do you hysterical, but he's a 14-year-old. Of course you do. Eldon, of course, because one, well, you only live once and why not? I was going to say, like, I was going to come back to, you know, 23 years in the business and to be left at a point what now? And I needed to make money. I'm like, well, how were you not good at financial keeping, like, you know, with your books and what not? But then I'm like, no, because he bought a horse. You'll buy two bikes when he lives in a modern one. Why do you have two bikes at all? Just buy one. No, no, no, no, I didn't have two bikes. We had two bikes. One was Sam's, not mine. One was a Harley, right? Well, it's, I've got rid of it. Please don't ever get me. Well, I was surprised you bought one because I kept wanting, when we both were in fan together, you were on a BMW. I was in a Harley, and I would say, hop on the Harley together and you're like, oh, darling, no, it's too loud. It was too shy to get on the Harley. And then I got one and I loved it. It was a beautiful bike. But obviously, it had the factory exhaust, so it didn't make as big as noise as yours. But it's not me. It's you, I mean, you're such a cool dude. And there's me, I'm kind of country casuals and horses. Landrovers, thank you. So when you started working there, that's where a lot of you were questioning a lot and thinking, what the fuck? Yeah, well, I think it was, I think it, what I think, no, I think it was more about what it did, it helped put things into perspective. And I think that's what I'd lost perspective. Perspective of this, I mean, you know, the last six years has been, well, actually, probably the last 10 years, it's been extraordinary. You know, having done the 25th anniversary production with John Owen Jones, and then going to Canada with you, and then all of a sudden, you know, I'm in this position of I'm then doing all these other gigs, and I get to sing with one of your favourites, Mr Colm, Robinson in Japan, and I just think, oh my god, this is just extraordinary. And then I'm, I'm what I'm going to New York. This is just like, and you do, you kind of get, well, this is the way it is. This is, this is my life now, bloody, bloody, bloody. But of course, you don't stop to think, well, no, actually, no, no, no, no, no, no, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. This only has a certain, long, longevity. This only has a certain timeline. And I think because I'd become so accustomed to that, you know, and I did try and make my own way as well, you know, when we went to Singapore, I made sure that I started meeting and chatting people. So I then did go back with my own concerts and stuff. You know, I've never just relied on, like I said, just getting someone to give you work, but you do, I mean, you know, my carbon footprint was shocking. But what an exciting life, you know, but you kind of go, well, no, I shouldn't, but I just didn't think that it would, it would come to an end. I thought I would be forever doing it. Yeah, before my neck injury, I was worried about my carbon footprint. I had to think that in one 12 month calendar period, 25 international flights. Wow. Okay. It's not good. It's not good. But on the flip side, what do you do? But this also incredibly exciting. I'm what a wonderful opportunity. Yeah, because that's the other thing. I mean, I miss touring. I miss touring so much, though, because I get a sense that, you know, if you're touring and you're seeing all these different things, you're not wasting life. But to tour, I'm so nomadic in within me. I mean, you know, as a kid, I was moved around, but you know that as well. I mean, you too, you know, you, you need to travel, you need to get, you have that sense of that. That's in us. Yeah. Okay. I've been here four weeks, I need to move now. Yeah. All right. We've just finished tech. Yeah. Well, that's it. We're done, aren't we? Opening night. Okay. What's next? You know, move on. That's, that's a bad thing. When you do get to that point, I'm going, you know, because there were all those exciting moments of rehearsals, technical sits probe, opening night, incredible. There's nothing that comes close to it. The day after opening night. Now what? Yeah, I could finish now. Don't you feel that sense of weight lifted off your shoulders? Because you know, after opening night, certain people go away, the show's kind of like in good hands now and running. Now you can go, oh, we can play now. We can, we can do the show. Yeah, I do. Yeah. I learned this from Hadley the way he sees runs now. To keep it fresh, it's just an ongoing rehearsal process. It is. And as long as you have that. Yeah. And because that's obviously there's a, there are a lot of shows that are so formulaic, you know, track one, number eight. You must be there for that moment. You're like, really? But I'd run a game over there. No, there. That's difficult. You know, if it's that type of world, which is why I'd love to do a play also because I'd love to know if I can tell a story without music. I'm sure you can. I would be so interested. Have you ever done a play? Never done a play. Really? Never done a play. And I would love to do that. I would, I would adore doing that. So at which point when you're working out in the wilderness with the horses and fixing electric fences, when did you start seeing a, a sort of like glimmer of light of another acting gig and you thought, I'm hungry for that or I'm excited. I think, I think what came more apparent to me was like I said, the, some of the opportunities that I took for granted. Whereas now when the opportunities two turn up, I think I'm actually having had that spell of, oh my god, this is over. This is done. I'm done. Now realizing, oh no, I'm not done. I, but I now seem to have variety more, which is, which is really exciting. When an opportunity does come up, I am, I seem to be a lot more grateful for it. And like I said, and with this kind of little ill looking in, going, yeah, I would never have believed that that would be happening. And that seems to be my mechanism to kind of go, whoa, whoa, just be grateful. You know, and I've really had to work harder at that now more than ever. Because I really don't say many people, a lot of people probably listen and go, well, yeah, of course, but I'm like, but when do we, as humans, I don't think we practice the easy things, the, oh yeah, of course we should be doing that. The common sense. Yeah, I'm guilty of it. And it's sort of like, it's that reminder of like, you know, just be grateful though. It's, it's a difficult thing. I think it's, it's, it's difficult to do. But especially when you spend so much time trying to make it in this industry. And then when you feel that you do, of course, you, you take it in and you enjoy it and you go, thank God, I'm here. I've made it. All this work. But of course, during that training, during that apprenticeship, no one really says, yeah, yeah, hang on. This will finish. There will, this, this, what you're experiencing, this bubble will change. It will pop and you will have to decide how you, one how you handle it and where you go to next, you know. And whereas a lot of people, I'm sure you and I both know, who have gone, no, I'm out and done. You know, but for whatever reason, you know, I'd still, you know, still want to be involved, still be a part of it. I think I try and pop the bubble at once the contract's done for everything. Keep popping it and keep making a new bubble. You know, but it's, yeah, absolutely. I always want, I don't think we should rest on our laurels. And like you say, so when you, when you said, there's times where you feel you didn't, perhaps be the best you or as we, as you feel you should have, you feel those bridges have been burned or are you rebuilding them? I think, I think, I think, but I think because of the decisions, I mean, I could have said no to the layman's concert. Playing Bermata Bois is that it? I could have gone down that, you know, but I didn't because you actually came at a point where, no, I need to feel that I still am a part of that world. And the right thing for me to do is to go, you know, amazing, and thank you. Anyway, as it all turned out, I ended up even singing Javair a couple of times during it, which I never thought I would do ever again. And to have that, I've haven't had that moment, you kind of go, yeah, and I, you know, and it's, and I'm pleased it happened, and I think, and again, it's that thing about just being a human and just being normal and just being a good person around everybody and actually not being the dick, you know, and actually saying, no, no, we'll do this. It's, it's cool, you know, rather than going, well, no, you know, equity and my age and all of that malachia. And you just kind of, I don't know, it's pretty weird, and I think it's, so do you feel a new sense of, a renewed sense of love for the stage, the craft? I think I think you've, you've always had. I have had. I guess there was these facades that you talk about or nonsense that, well, I think you were probably your own worst enemy. Well, yes, yes, I think that's fair to say. But it's also that thing about, you have, you know, when you go into certain environments, you, you experience, when you come in with experience, you either decide to exercise that experience or just sit back and let it be. Whereas before, I've kind of tried to exercise my experience, and it doesn't always work, because as I was taught one day, you know, there is a bigger picture, and it doesn't involve me. You know, and you kind of go, ah, yeah, so I've just got to enjoy now. Just be, you know, rather than going, well, actually, what about if we do this and no, no, you mustn't do that and all those types of things, which, you know, you do fall into the trap of thinking that you have a voice, but you've just got to step back and sometimes go, I know, I need to be quiet and just enjoy. Yeah, think about it. And that's what you just enjoy. And absolutely pick your battles. I mean, I'm not saying that you should never, you know, just roll over and that's it. But you should pick your battles and, um, but enjoy it, because again, those moments, you know, when I've been in different countries and, um, you just kind of got to, you know, say, no, look, I'm in a different country. This is exciting. How many people get this opportunity? You know, and I go back to where my mum used to live in the, in the New Forest, and, you know, you go to the little village that you grew up in, and there are some people still there, some 30, 40 years later, who haven't left. We're working in the local bank or something like that, and you go, and you have to go, gosh, look at what I've done. And look at the opportunity that could still happen. And not to say they're not happy. Not to say that at all. Of course, no, but it's my reflection of that being in one place for that amount of time. I could not do that. Um, but it's, so that's why there are moments you kind of think, ah, I wish I'd handled that a little better. So, when you had that time, and then when you went back to the Les Mises Bamattebois, did you find a new, we like, I'm having a blast. It was really weird. And yes, I, yes, I did. I did. What an extraordinary, it was, I mean, it was, I mean, it was, it was an event. As an event, it was, it was amazing. And again, it's that checking in of going, you know, there was little moments of musical theatre history, you know, doing the O2, doing the Royal Albert Hall with you. And, you know, just all those moments of, you know, even, I mean, the Royal Albert Hall, having Anthony Warlow run up to me, put his hand down his trousers, pull out his mic belt and go, I'm wearing your mic belt. I was worried where the story was going. Yeah, I know. But just, I mean, just extraordinary moments like that, you know, and it's just, I don't know, it's so weird. It is so weird. And it's, but it's, it's nice to be, I mean, it's still difficult. It's still hard now. And I'm still going, oh my God, what's next? What's coming next? But because I've had this kind of epiphany of that, no, you know, I'm, I have to adapt. I have to adapt. And as long as I keep myself occupied, as long as I keep myself busy, and that is from the point of view of whether it be with my photography or working at the stables, then other things happen. And it does happen. It's like when you're trying to search for something, it never happens. But when you go, okay, I'll do that. And then all of a sudden everything comes along. Yeah. Life can go, oh, you think you're doing that, are you? Yeah. You just keep yourself prepared as best as possible. And we'll take care of the rest. Exactly. And that's, that's, that's the thing. And that is the thing you just got to, and be open to everything. And that's what, well, that's, that's what's been, I think the biggest lesson is. I love you. I love your honesty. I love the average change. You know, you, I've been told you live in decades. And I just feel like you're worried about becoming 50. I'm excited to see like, this is a new chapter for Earl Carpenter as an artist and as a producer, no doubt. And I find you as inspiring now as I ever have. And I'm so proud that you're my buddy. Yeah. You're a star. Is this where we talk about starlight express in that concert? You can listen. I am so grateful that you don't have that recording or you can't find it. I can't find that recording. So that was our first time we worked together. Because I, listen, I've specifically not really talked about your CV. We're going to, we'll do this again and we'll talk work as I, I'll, we'll do a podcast where I want to pick your brain about character development and what? Or maybe not. I just changed the name to Earl. I don't know. So was that the first I know we met at a lay miss audition prior to that? Was it where we became friends? No, that was a, it was a lay miss audition, wasn't it? It was one of those workshops. No, wasn't it? It was either Jesus Christ superstar. Do you remember we did that? A porches to cast someone? You produced that. Yeah, I think, but the other one we did at Osborne House on the Isle of White. So it was you, Carie Ellis, Chris Holland, Rebecca Thornhill and myself. And we were in a need to Louise Kuhn. Yep. And it was I think the top of act two. In most modifying to this day, I still like, it pains me. Oh, to this day we still talk about it. I worked with Chris in Dublin over just before Christmas and that's all we just kept laughing about was, because Chris was, was literally sat right next to you. Because, and because Carie, Carie literally broke Chris's arm because she was hanging on for dear life because she was just laughing because you accidentally misconstrued. Okay. So we're singing, it's called Starlight, you are a starlight or a starlight, sorry. Starlight Express, which went to behind the starlight. But I had to come in with starlight Express. Yeah. Yeah. Really high, loud and proud. Oh, absolutely. I believe it's after five rounds of whatever musical interlude was orchestrated. Now, I said to the conductor, because I can't count, let alone read music, point me in. So it's going round and round. I see him look over at me. His hand gestures. Yes. I'm like, starlight Express. As I hit star, as I hit the Ellen light, I can tell the by the look on his face. Oh, shit. I was bringing in the cello, not you remain, because then as I'm on holding express in a completely different key to my, to my defense, I was on my right notes. Well, yes. Just one round early. Yes, this is true. But instead of just letting, letting things lie and just letting it go and no one will know, I went starlight Express. Then he gave me the proper cue. Starlight Express. I did it twice. At this point, at this point, I'm on the literally, I'm on the floor. I am on the floor, the opposite stage, opposite side of the stage, crying, crying, because it was your face, because I remember looking across to you, you got up and Kerry and Chris are looking, why is he getting up? You hitting starlight Express. And then that kind of realization on your face of going, this is wrong. This is wrong. And oh, my, I mean, my stomach. And of course, I had to get up and go, "Only you." And sing it with Chris Holland. And Chris said, I mean, he, Kerry, Kerry broke him, because he was literally crying with laughter. But I think maybe we weren't talking about that. Maybe that was just something we should leave and never remember. I was so, I want, you know what? Because I was young in green. So in my head, I'm like, I'm never going to work again. And I wanted to blame someone else. So I went starlight Express, starlight Express. And I quickly, as I came off the note, quickly when under fence shouted to Chris, he brought me in. Yes, yes. While this is all going on, I'm having a moment with Chris Holland, I'm going to justify why I did what I did. I'm like, "Dude, the show's still going. Kerry on me." They're excited about it. 5,000 people in this field. And it was just brilliant. I mean, it was just, and again, just those moments, having those moments, and again, having this type of platform as well to talk about those things, things that, you know, people don't get to hear about, or see it as they were there. Well, this is free cell phone real. I don't think I had a cell phone at that point. But I'm afraid to even say we just missed the everyone recording everything. Oh, yes. No, this is very true. It's going to come up. Someone's going to go, wait a minute. Yeah, I got it. No. Though I do have a recording somewhere. I really do have it. But you can't find it. No one can find it. Yes, I'm going to be right on. I've tried to find it. But, um, somewhere, maybe, you know, can we have you back soon? I've really loved it. So much more on my talk, and likewise, I'm glad you've had these epiphany's man. Yeah, they've been so important. So, so important. And it just, it helps. I think you're a lot to offer, brother. I love you. Goodbye. Goodbye. Well, thanks for hanging with Earl and I, folks. Again, I was truly moved and inspired by Earl, and I am excited to see what his next chapter brings us, especially for me as a friend, Collie, and a fan. The Hang is produced by Dory Barastine and Allen Seals from the Broadway podcast network. You can find me online at epn.fm/dahang. Don't forget, you can connect with me on Instagram and Twitter @RamineCarameloo on YouTube, a roaming Iranian, or my Facebook page official Rameen Carameloo. Music for my podcast is by my friends and one of my favorite bands, The Dives. Please check them out at their website, TheDivesMusic.com. That's TheDivesMusic.com, where you can get to know them, hear their incredible music, get links to all their socials, and most importantly, their tour dates, where you can find out where you can see and hear them live. They are truly a great band, and they are phenomenal live. Check them out. Hello and welcome to The Cheese Wheel Podcast, your new favorite podcast about hyper-fixations gambled on a wheel. In this podcast, we are covering anything that we want to talk about, but the problem is, we don't know what we're covering every week and it's something new every time. And I am joined by two of my co-hosts, Andrew DeWolf. Hello, hello, I'm happy to be here. And Liz Eston. Hello, also very happy to be here. And this show is weekly and every time someone else brings something to the table, that's a little bent. We're going to be covering anything and everything, including Chaperone's new album, Spy Kids, and the film version of Waitress. We're going to have a new episode every Friday and you're going to see the vast arrays of interests we might have. Andrew, what might be one of your choices? Oh, I mean, I could pick something like, I don't know, famously bad movie Miami connection, and we could have a good time watching something that I love that's kind of terrible, or I could pick something incredibly good like Jacob's Ladder, which is my favorite movie of all time. Incredible. And Liz, what about you? I don't know, I could go something like a walk hard, The Deweycock story, so I can talk about my favorite comedy, since Jess didn't let me do it on the old podcast. Well, funny to bring that up. In case you're wondering, what happened to me, School of Cheese? We ended that show, but the show's still here and living on in season one, so if you want to go back and listen to our backlog, that's still here, but right now we're just the cheese wheel. Please, keep on listening, we got a lot of fun stuff to come, and we hope that you like what we're doing.