Halloween Night, a Sleeping Toddler, and a Killer Creeping Inside | Rebekah Gay

Halloween is already a scary time of year, but most of the time, it's all about fun, disguises, tricks, and treats. But in this case, Halloween brought a real-life nightmare. Real monsters truly walk among us, disguising themselves as people who care, and that's scarier than any fictional tale, because these monsters really exist. Hi everyone, welcome back to my channel, and if you've never been here before, I'm Kemberlaya, it's nice to finally meet you. If you've heard this story before, I would encourage you to stay because this is a deep dive. I'm sure you'll find answers to questions you may have had left after watching news clips or even shows created on this case. It is definitely a heartbreaking one. Any time a young person is killed, it's very sad, but this case, we'll stick with you. I can guarantee you that. I want to introduce you to Rebecca Jane Gaye, the youngest child of Thomas and Sally Gaye. Let me tell you about them first, so you'll know how Rebecca came along. Thomas Gaye was raised in Boyne City, Michigan, and became a certified welder working for the union. He met Sally Kelly, and they got married on April 3rd of 1976 in Flushing, Michigan, just two years later, in June of 1978, the couple welcomed their first child, a daughter they named Deborah. Then two years after she arrived, they welcomed a son in July of 1980, James Wyatt Gay, who was named after his paternal grandfather. Four years after that, in July of 1984, they had another son, they named Aaron Jacob. And finally, four years after Aaron came into the world, it was Rebecca Jane Gaye's turn on March 26th of 1988. Her name is spelled like the Rebecca and the Bible, our E-B-E-K-A-H, and both her parents were followers of God and devoted to their faith. Rebecca's father, Thomas, was highly respected in their community, and well-known for his knowledge and expertise in riding, handling, and training horses. He considered everyone he met a friend, and was even one of the original founding members of the St. Jude's Ride. This is a horseback riding event that raises money for St. Jude's children's hospital. He was also known to have great compassion for both humans and animals. Thomas was also a sponsor and supporter of the Wounded Warrior Project, and he said a very good example for his children and both instilling his values in them and raising them in a family that emphasized togetherness, faith, and hard work. Rebecca, who was actually known as Becca Boo, experienced a childhood rooted in the simplicity of small town living, filled with moments that reflected her innocence and joy. Growing up in Midland, she enjoyed the security of a small community where everyone knew each other. Her childhood was spent playing with her siblings attending church with her family and developing friendships that would last a lifetime. From an early age, Rebecca was known for her gentle nature and compassionate spirit, traits that would define her throughout her entire life. Though Rebecca and her older sister were many years apart, they had a very strong bond, and so did the girls and their mother. As Rebecca got older, she was known as someone who was always there when you needed support. Someone who listened intently and offered comfort and times of need. She had a unique ability to make others feel seen and heard, qualities that made her well-liked and remembered in both her family and social circles. There was also her laugh and her kindness that stood out to others, and people who met Rebecca often commented on her natural beauty, her shiny blonde hair, and big blue eyes. But it was actually her inner beauty that made an impression once you had to know her. Now, I'm not sure exactly when Rebecca's father became terminally ill, but sadly Thomas was diagnosed with an incurable disease, and the family eventually made the heartbreaking decision to move him into a hospice care facility so he could get around the clock support that he needed to be comfortable. They chose a hospice called Tony and Trisha's house in Auburn, Michigan. It's not considered the normal care facility. Instead, it's like a home where patients are supported in a caring social environment. These little houses have spaces for guests, they have spacious kitchens, a common area, a living room, a chapel, and even a laundry. As hard as it was, the family knew Thomas would be getting his needs met by professionals while his family could enjoy his company before he passed. Rebecca attended Bullock Creek High School in Midland, and she was a member of the equestrian team following in her father's footsteps. She also volunteered for the school's archery shoot, and this was to raise money for families in need that needed help making ends meet. Rebecca was known as the quiet but pretty girl and I'm doing air quotes because she was someone that people would remember even if they saw her once because of the way that she looked. So it's no surprise that after graduating in 2007, she decided to pursue a career in the beauty industry and enrolled in session school of cosmetology. Around this same time, her father was still very ill and in hospice, and things were lonely for her mother Sally, who wasn't used to being by herself without a partner. She started to join some online dating sites to fill the void that she felt in her life, hoping that maybe at the very least, she could find someone to talk to, to make her feel less isolated because her children were all adults and moving out on their own now and having their own lives at this time. Rebecca was dating a guy named Chad Sandow, and they had quite a serious relationship. The two of them made a gorgeous match, physically speaking. He had the long, shaggy, brown hair, blue eyes, and one of those baby faces. During this time, Rebecca had finished her cosmetology program, and she started working at Borg's haircare salon as a stylist in Mount Pleasant, which was close to where her mother Sally lived. Sally had moved into a mobile home in the Brumfield Valley mobile home park, and she finally met someone. His name was John White, and they started corresponding long distance because he was living in Augusta, Michigan at the time, which was about a two-hour drive away. But he recently moved in with Sally, and he was working as a pastor at a church nearby where Sally taught Sunday school. It was called Christ Community Fellowship. They enjoyed each other's companionship, and they had a lot in common, especially with their beliefs and interests as Christians. So let me tell you more about Mount Pleasant, Michigan. It is packed into about eight square miles, and his population was just under 20,000 people. It was pretty tight-knit. Other than students who moved into Isabella County to attend nearby Central Michigan State, most of the area is quite rural. There's a lot of outdoor activities, local festivals, farmers, markets, a very welcoming environment, definitely a relaxed pace, especially around where Sally lived in Brumfield. 20 minutes outside Mount Pleasant, over there, it was even more rural with a lot of scenic farmland. It's just a nice, quiet area to raise a family, and speaking of family, soon there would be a new addition. Because around 2008, Rebecca found out she was pregnant. When the baby came along, she and Chad did their best to make things work, but for many young couples, it can be a very challenging time, and unfortunately, they did not work out as a romantic couple. But being a mother changed Rebecca's life. Her son, Conway, was her world. He was her everything. From that point forward, she was focused on creating the best life possible for him. Even though she and Chad hadn't worked out, they were both dedicated to making co-parenting a priority. They worked together to ensure their son had a stable, loving environment. Now with Rebecca needing a lot more help, she decided to rent a mobile home in the same community her mother lived in at Brumfield Valley Mobile Home Park. Now I know that some people, not all people, but some people are quick to judge when they hear trailer or mobile home. But I have to say, I've seen quite a few of these, and especially recently, they can be quite cozy. I saw this one for rent in the exact same community that Sally and Rebecca lived in. Very spacious with all the things you would need, especially if you were just getting on your feet as a single mom like Rebecca was. She felt safe knowing that her mom was close by. She liked her landlord that was renting the space to her, and she knew all of her neighbors from coming over and visiting her mom and John all the time. It was perfect. Having Sally and John as a support system just as straight away was very helpful for Rebecca, and soon they were spending almost every night together with John cooking them dinner, and of course, doning on her son Conway. John liked the idea of having a built-in family and he stepped up as a father figure to Rebecca, and a grandfather figure to Conway, often helping to drop him off a daycare, or even assisting Rebecca by bringing Conway to the drop-off exchanges with her ex, Chad. They had a meeting place at the Mount Pleasant Myers grocery store, and would typically meet up on Wednesday mornings. By this time, the long hours at the salon were not practical, so Rebecca got a job at a Goodwill retail store in Mount Pleasant 15 minutes away from her home. She, Sally, John and Conway settled into a nice stable routine. Rebecca welcomed and accepted John into her family, and because of her compassionate nature, it was very easy for John to accept Rebecca as well. For example, there was a time when John got very sick. He had a really bad cold, and Rebecca would make him soup. She would check on him, bring him pizza, and in turn, John was always helpful when Rebecca needed a helping hand with Conway. Rebecca was just a very loving person, a great mother, she would read to Conway every night. Most of the time, they were Bible stories. The same one she grew up reading, plus Sally was a Sunday school teacher, so she had a lot of experience with kids and enjoyed caring for Conway as well. From the moment that Conway was born, he was immensely loved. Rebecca made everything fun and special for him. She was so happy even when things weren't perfect. She would talk about how much she adored her little family, which soon included a new man, Aaron Quinn. She We met Aaron when Conway was only about one year old. Aaron's sister, Andrea, worked with Rebecca Goodwill, and they formed a very close friendship, so she was so happy when Rebecca and Aaron started dating. The pair got along really well and of course, Aaron accepted Conway into his world like he was his own son. Soon, Rebecca and Conway were spending time over Aaron's with his mother, Lisa, and his sister, Teresa and Andrea. Teresa thought that Rebecca was so kind and nice and had a voice as gentle and soft as an angel. She was a very sweet girl. They had never seen their brothers happy as he was until he met Rebecca. They truly considered Rebecca a part of their family and could tell that Aaron thought that she was the one. And over time, Rebecca was like a sister to Andrea and Teresa, and they would tell their brother, "You better put a ring on it because you don't want her to slip away." She was a great girl. But the couple was taking their time, enjoying each other's company, and doing a lot of activities as a family with Conway. They loved being silly together, taking Conway to new places, and experiencing new things, and spending time over Sally's as well. It was really important to Rebecca that Conway had positive influences in his life, and that he only had good people around him. And Conway and Aaron got along so well, her son always came first. She was working so hard, eventually getting promoted to a management position at Goodwill, which included a raise. Rebecca's friends and family often spoke about how motherhood had completely transformed her. Even though she'd always been a caring and responsible person, becoming a mom seemed to bring out an even deeper sense of purpose in Rebecca's life. She balanced her responsibilities at work with demands of being a single parent. And despite those challenges, Rebecca never complained. She approached every aspect of her life with gratefulness. Her lifestyle may have been modest, but she filled her world with love and warmth, making sure that Conway had everything he needed. As Halloween 2012 approached, Rebecca was especially excited because Halloween was her favorite holiday. And this year was particularly special, because Conway was now three years old. He was at the perfect age to start enjoying the fun of dressing up and going trick-or-treating. There was also a lot to do in their little town, like Papa's Pumpkin Patch and the Trunken treat. Rebecca loved costumes. She loved decorating and had gone to a Halloween store with Conway and Aaron, where they recently took pictures trying on cute sunglasses together, and she even went to work dressed like a pirate, and already picked out a Spider-Man outfit for Conway. He was looking more and more like his mama with his long blonde hair and blue eyes. So many cute pictures of the two of them being affectionate together. And Conway kissing Rebecca, just adorable. You can tell what a strong bond they had. The goodwill store the Rebecca Manage had recently gotten a shipment of scarecrow's, and Rebecca bought eight of them to put in her front yard. She went all out for Halloween, with a crime scene taped, draped across the windows, and the front porch deck. It read, "Enter a few dare." She had spider decorations in another window, with pumpkin window clings, a door wrap that said "Happy Halloween," and a pumpkin near the front door. So let's jump to October 30th. The night before Halloween, which is known as Devil's Night in Detroit, Michigan. Rebecca was having a relaxing evening, which is the opposite of what the night usually brings in other parts of the state, where pranks and arson take place. Rebecca was having a night in, gearing up for the following day. She had all these exciting plans for herself, Aaron, and Conway. Rebecca liked planning things, and had already set out Conway's Spider-Man costume. Halloween fell on a Wednesday that year. A day when Conway typically spent time with his father. So the next morning, he would get to hang out with his dad, until Rebecca got off work. Then she and Aaron were going to take Conway trick or treating. That night, Rebecca talked to her mom on the phone around 10 o'clock. She was telling her how excited she was to get to work the next morning, because she was starting to work days. And even though she had to get an early start around 6am, that meant she had the evening to spend with her son. Conway slept with Rebecca, so they got into bed, and they said goodnight to Sally, and that they would see her the next day. Rebecca's mom had no reason to believe that anything was amiss during their phone club at night. Rebecca was her usual, happy self, and completely focused on her plans for Halloween. Unfortunately, Rebecca's favorite holiday would become a memorable time for her family for all the wrong reasons. Halloween morning. Rebecca's coworker, Aaron's sister Andrea gets a phone call from her assistant manager, asking if she had spoken Rebecca because she had not shown up for her morning shift yet. Andrea said she instantly got a pit in her stomach, because she knew Rebecca. She was never even late for work. Not showing up was even more unusual. The fact that she hadn't called into work was strange. Even if she was going to be 5 minutes late, she always made sure to call and let her supervisor know. Andrea thought something must have happened. So no one's thinking the worst. They're thinking about the normal things. Maybe Conway's dad was late when he was getting dropped off. Maybe Rebecca's alarm hadn't gone off. Maybe her phone died or broke. And maybe she was on her way, but couldn't let them know. So Andrea called her brother to ask if he had heard from her. Aaron let her know that he had talked to Rebecca a couple times on the phone that night before. And the last time they spoke, it was around 10 pm, and she said she was off to bed. At this point, Andrea was concerned. But if Rebecca had gotten in an accident, what if something happened to Conway? She quickly called her assistant manager back and asked him if he would mind driving over Rebecca's house since he was closer and checking on her. He was like, "Handra, I don't even know what mobile home Rebecca lives in." And Andrea wasn't sure of the exact lot number either, but she told her assistant manager to look for the trailer with the scarecrows out in front. And with that extra detail, the assistant manager was able to locate Rebecca's home out in Brunefield, Mobile Home Park. He walked up, he knocked on the door, but nobody answered. And her car wasn't in front. So we actually tried to open the front door, but it was locked. He turned around and began driving back to goodwill, but that's when he spotted something that he thought was odd. So he called Andrea back. When she answered, he let her know that they had a problem. He saw Rebecca's vehicle, a light blue Ford or Buick parked at a nearby bar called the Barn Door, which was only about 100 yards away from Rebecca's house. It was actually in the line of sight. If you were outside on her road, you could see the bar. The bar was on cold water road. The main road you'd take to enter the road that Rebecca's lot was on. But why would her car be parked over there? It was strange, but it wasn't just where it was parked. It was how it was parked. The car was backed up into these tall pine trees. Some of the branches were actually touching the back window of her car. Remember that this is a small town. So the assistant manager actually goes to the bar and he speaks with the owner who's also related to Rebecca's landlord. You don't have to keep track of this. I'm just letting you know what happened. He let them know that they were concerned for Rebecca's well-being and asked if they could contact the landlord and at the very least maybe let them inside so that they could look around and make sure that Rebecca wasn't lying on the floor injured or sick. They couldn't see through the windows with all the decorations up. Meanwhile, Andrea is racing over to Rebecca's. And she and the assistant manager gained entry and began to look around inside Rebecca's home. Now, this is not a big space. So they know within minutes that she's not there. However, right away, Andrea realized that something was a mess. There she saw a purse. A purse that Erin had gifted Rebecca. It was sitting on the kitchen table. Now, this was a new purse that he bought for her back in August and she loved it so much. She was still talking about it in October. Andrea knew that Rebecca would not have left home without it. Not willingly. While all of this is going on, coworkers of Rebecca started to reach out to Sally and John to find out if they had heard from Rebecca. Sally didn't answer her phone, but they were able to get a hold of John who came right outside and met with the neighbors and they all had gathered in front of Rebecca's house. They informed John that she had not shown up for work and he immediately got a hold of her mother. Neither of them said they had any idea where she could be, but they were both obviously concerned, especially Sally. When John told her that one of the neighbors said that Rebecca wasn't at work and her car was found next door, she quickly raced over there with a bad feeling in her gut. She knew something happened to her daughter. She began praying for Rebecca's safety. By noon, they had reported Rebecca missing to the Isabella County Sheriff's Department. But unfortunately, due to Rebecca being 24 years old, she was an adult. She actually frustratingly wanted to wait until 430. That was when Rebecca was due to meet her ex-chad to do the exchange of Conway. If she didn't show up to get her son, then they would start a search for her which I think is a complete waste of valuable time. That's four and a half hours that could have been used to gather information, look for clues, and hopefully find this poor girl. Her family knew that she wouldn't just leave. She didn't have her purse, her car was parked at a bar. She was a mother, she would never leave like this, so Rebecca's loved ones wasted no time. They started searching for her themselves, and right away they were doing their best to build out a timeline, and then to reach out to anyone who knew her. Pastor John White reaches out to his congregation, who are more than willing to not only pray for Rebecca, but help look for her. News was spreading through this small community very quickly, everyone was asking around to see if anyone had any clues to her whereabouts. John raced over to the bar, where two staff members Kathy and Janet greeted him. He was distraught. He was telling them that Rebecca was missing. Her car was found outside their establishment, and Kathy was trying to calm John down and let him know that they would ask the employees that were there the night before, whether Rebecca had come into the bar that night. Maybe there was a chance that after she put Conway to bed, she just decided to drive over and have a couple drinks on devil's night. But that was not the Rebecca her family knew, not at all. As John waited to hear back from the bar staff, he and Sally did their best not to panic, but it was hard. They were just, we're not any clues to guide them where to go. All they knew was that morning everything was completely normal. It was a Wednesday. So per usual, Conway would need to be taken to the Myers-Gracey store parking lot to be picked up by Chad. The store was very close by to the Goodwill where Rebecca worked, but because she was now working morning shifts, she couldn't be in two places at once. So John and Sally would help out. And like clockwork, John arrived a little bit before 6.30 that morning while Rebecca was in the bathroom getting ready for work. Conway is usually asleep and it was no different that morning. John hung out until he woke up and did his normal routine and then he drove him to meet up with Chad. He said nothing was out of the ordinary at all. Rebecca went to work around 6.50 am and John got Conway ready to meet with his dad, Chad. So the mention of Chad does raise some red flags. We know partners, ex-partners, significant others. They're always the first ones who need to be ruled out as having anything to do with someone who went missing. But John explains that Chad was in a normal mood. He didn't seem upset and they exchange whenever smoothly like always. But the police aren't so sure. They decide to station a few officers in the Myers parking lot while waiting for Rebecca to show up to get Conway at 4.30 pm. They also have police at her home in case she returned and at the bar waiting to question employees and patrons who were there the night before. Now they can't search her home yet because they need to wait until they have officially filed a missing person's report so that they could obtain a search warrant. But when Rebecca fails to show up to get Conway, the officers sprung into action. The response was immediate. The radios were going off one by one with instructions to search her home and car. Isabella County Sheriff Leo Mioduski was assigned to the case along with Sergeant Gary Green and Detective Sergeant David Patterson. They split up going to the bar, the car, and into Rebecca's house. Let's start with the bar. No one had seen Rebecca come in there the night before plus. Her car was not outside when they closed down for the night. On Tuesdays, that's at 8 pm. So she wouldn't have gone over there after speaking with her mom and Erin because they weren't even open. So that was strange. That is definitely red flag. The police put out an APB for 24-year-old Rebecca Gay, saying that she was a white female five foot three, about 118 pounds, with curly blonde hair and blue eyes. You might be wondering, wait a minute. Curly? I thought she had straight hair. Rebecca usually had pin straight hair, but she really wanted curls. So she had recently gotten a perm. She was last seen wearing a blue top and black pants. As far as anything unique was concerned, they did mention she had three tattoos. One was a circle of eagle feathers on her upper back, a kiss on one of her hips, and a music cleft with the name Conway on her left wrist. Next, let me tell you about what the investigators saw when they did a walk through of Rebecca's home. First of all, her purse was open and it was out on the table, and her keys were not inside, and they could not find her phone. It was missing as well. However, there were no signs of force entry and everything seemed to be in its place. But then. As they looked even closer, they spotted something. It might not seem like much, but investigators thought there could be more than what meets the eye. In the hallway on the carpet, there was a section that appeared kind of fluffed up, almost like it had been scrubbed. It wasn't laying as flat as the rest of the carpet, so they got an even closer look, and it seemed as though someone had tried to clean that area. So they examined it under some better lighting, and that's when they noticed. But could be reddish brown spots on the carpet that could be blood. But of course, we have Conway. He's a toddler. He could have spilled something as well. We know most toddlers are notorious for making messes. But under the circumstances, investigators start really focusing on that hallway. I have a picture of the carpet. It's kind of a marbled, bluish, white blend of colors. So the spots are not easy to see unless you're looking for them. But there they are. I'm circling them now if you're watching. And on one of the walls, they spot a portion that appeared to have been cracked. And all around the crack were tiny droplets of blood like stains. After examining other areas of the home, they find even more suspected blood on some of the cabinets in Rebecca's kitchen, and one of the door knobs on the back door. This is not good. It was apparent that this was a crime scene, and now, real yellow crime scene tape was added to the fake Halloween version that was already up outside Rebecca's trailer. The whole scene was just eerie with it being Halloween. While children were happily walking by, hoping to fill their buckets with candy, Rebecca's family's hearts were filled with dread and poor Conway. His night was ruined, and Halloween would forever be marked with evil and heartbreak for this poor family. When investigators asked Sally if she knew anyone that would want to cause harm to her daughter, she said no. She said she never heard one person say anything bad about Rebecca. All she could assume was that someone had taken her. Maybe someone was out doing no good on Devil's Night and saw Rebecca and snatch her up. Sally was so scared. She wondered if her daughter had been held captive, and all she could do was wait and pray that they would find her and bring her home safely. Sally and John were calling around to people asking if they'd seen Rebecca. John also called Donna Huton and elder at the church and told her to please start a prayer train to ask for prayers for Rebecca to be found. They were beside themselves and rallied the entire town to search for her. Imagine searching, for him missing, and now endangered person on Halloween night, when people are covered in fake blood and disguises. The night took on a whole new meaning and whole new feeling for this family. The costumes no longer looked fun. You aren't interested in whose gory outfit looks the most realistic. When you found real blood inside a loved one's home, though it wasn't a lot of blood, detectives knew that time was running out. They had to find a lead and fast if they wanted to find Rebecca alive. Next, they examined Rebecca's car. The inside looked fairly normal, the usual mess of a busy mom with a three-year-old. But one thing they noticed right away was that Rebecca's driver's seat was pushed way back further than it should have been for a petite person like her. That was yet another clue that someone had moved her vehicle to this location, most likely to throw off investigators. Maybe to make it look like she went into the bar and she was taken from there. But we know that's not what happened. Someone came in to Rebecca's home and they attacked her. But where was she now and who had done this? Investigators were informed that Rebecca had a boyfriend named Aaron Quinn, so they brought him in for questioning. Aaron was a very upset, visibly shaken, and he said that he talked to Rebecca a couple times the night before, just like he told his sister. But he added more detail. He said he texted Rebecca at 10.43 pm. He said goodnight, sweet dreams. She didn't answer, but he figured she was already asleep. However, what he found odd was at the next morning on Halloween. He texted her before her shift at 6.33 am. He said good morning, Becca, happy Halloween, but his text turned green, which he thought was really weird. Now, they both had iPhones, and if you don't know, the text that you send someone are usually blue from your end, but when they turn green, it could mean that the person's phone is off, they're out of the service network, or they don't have a Wi-Fi connection. This was odd enough that it made Aaron take a mental note of it, but nothing more until now. Now it seemed connected to our disappearance, which meant by 6.33 am, something had seemingly gone wrong. Aaron answered all the investigators questions with proof of where he had been the night before and that morning. His whereabouts were confirmed. Plus, the detective's perspective was that Aaron seemed genuinely worried about his girlfriend, the love of his life. He was bent out of shape about it, and as a matter of fact, he confided in the detectives that he had been planning to propose to Rebecca for weeks now. He had saved money for a ring since last Christmas, and he had it ready. He was actually waiting for the perfect moment, which he thought would be Halloween night. Her favorite holiday, Aaron even planned for his family to be there, and he can't believe that Rebecca has disappeared. You can tell how in love he was with Rebecca, but could she have known about the proposal and gotten cold feet? Maybe she wanted a way to avoid a messy confrontation. Maybe she took all of a set of friend's house until she knew how to turn Aaron down. As plausible as it was, everyone who was questions said that the couple was very much in love. No friends of hers were harboring Rebecca at their place, and Aaron was adamant he had nothing to do with her going missing. Rebecca loved and wanted to marry Aaron. They talked about their future together and starting a family of their own, so no one closer could imagine her running away to avoid the things she actually dreamed about, especially leaving Conway behind even for a few hours. But while going deeper into her personal relationships, detectives learned that Rebecca has another significant man in her life. Her ex, Chad Sandow, the father of her son Conway, with everyone saying how much Rebecca loved Aaron, and investigators wondered if Chad took issue with that. If she had moved on with Aaron, maybe Chad wasn't fond of that idea. Maybe he didn't want this guy around his son. These separations can be very messy, we know that, so he's got to be questioned next. When they speak with Chad, he tells investigators he has no issues with Rebecca. And even though they didn't work out, they respected one another. got along. They were cordial and he had no clue where she was. Chad's demeanor did seem a little odd though. He got angry with the authorities because in his perspective, they were wasting time talking to him. He thought his time was better spent searching for the mother of his child. The understood where he was coming from, but they also let Chad know that the information he could provide may help them, so they went back to square one. And they began asking Chad about how he met Rebecca, what their relationship was like, and what their current routine was like with Conway. Chad explained their custody agreement and he said that this one's day was like no other. On certain days when Rebecca had to work, John or Sally would make the exchange of their son. And that's what happened. John brought Conway to the Myers parking lot safely, and Rebecca never showed up to pick him up later that day. That's all I knew. Everything seemed so normal, but now he was trying to look for any clues that seemed out of place, looking back now that Rebecca had disappeared. And the only thing that stood out to him was that Conway was wearing his Halloween costume that morning, even though he wasn't set to go trick or treating until after his mother got off work that evening. But I'm sure you know how kids are. They don't always understand timelines, and Chad just figured Conway couldn't wait to wear his Spider-Man costume. To gain a better understanding of that morning and to put all these details together, they asked Pastor John White, Rebecca's mom's boyfriend, to come back to the station for a more in-depth information gathering session. However, John was immediately given a hard time. After all, he was the last person to have seen Rebecca that day. So investigators seem laser focused on his answers, and that could make anyone feel anxious. I mean, I forgot what I ate for breakfast today, and with routines being so habitual, it's easy to forget small details. When you don't know in the moment that they're going to become important later on, investigators want to know so many things they want to know exactly what Rebecca was wearing. Had she put on normal everyday clothes or a costume for Halloween at work? Did she seem okay? Was she acting any different? Did she say she was going straight to work, or did she mention stopping at the barn door, even though they wouldn't have been open yet? Was Conway acting normal? Why was he wearing his costume and the list went on and on? So of course, John felt bombarded with all these rapid fire questions, but he tried his best to answer them. Starting with a very important clarification, it was early. John didn't usually come over that early to watch Conway. This was a new part of Rebecca's routine. She was starting her early day shifts that good well. So John was tired when he first got there around 630 that morning. He's 55 years old, not a spring chicken. So details were not 100% sharp, but detectives were really hoping the minister could shed some light on anything that could help them locate Rebecca. So he gave them a play by play of Halloween morning. Rebecca's trailer wishes a couple rose down from his and Sally's. He walked over and saw that the porch lights were already on, which Rebecca would do in the morning so he knew that she was awake and would be expecting him. He also said he could tell she was in her bathroom because you could see someone inside moving around. He walked up to the front door. He didn't knock. The door was unlocked so he let himself in. Once inside, he alerted Rebecca by saying, "Hey, I'm here." Rebecca answered to him from inside the bathroom while getting ready. And John recalled her saying something like "Relax on the couch until Conway gets up." And she mentioned something about an Afghan. If you don't know what that is, I wouldn't have either unless I grew up with my grandmother. It's basically a crochet blanket. This was actually the first time that John revealed. He did not physically see Rebecca that morning. He only heard her and saw her silhouette through the bathroom window when he was outside. Now this kind of changed things. Was he sure that he heard Rebecca's voice? Did she sound strained? Did it appear that she was being held against her will? Was there someone else in the house? John said that he can't be sure, but he thinks he recalls Rebecca saying goodbye to him when she left. It may be something about turning the heat down when he leaves. It was just hard to recall because he'd been over there so many times in the past three years watching Conway kind of all blurred together. Plus, he was drifting in and out of sleep on her couch. It was around eight o'clock that morning when little Conway woke him up and he was excited because it was Halloween. John said he saw this by her man costume laying out in the bedroom so he dressed Conway in his costume around eight thirty and they left and he brought Conway to meet with Chad at the Myer store. That's pretty much everything. The investigators already knew except the details about John not actually seeing Rebecca only hearing her. Could it have been someone disguising their voice or forcing Rebecca to speak at gunpoint? We know her texts were already green by six thirty that morning. So was she really getting ready that morning or had someone harmed her and slipped her out of the house right under John's nose? It's still Halloween evening and investigators are canvassing the neighborhood, talking to people including some of Rebecca's friends, co-workers, and family members. And of course, when they get word that John was the last person to see her, they too are laser focus on him so much so their rumors are starting to swirl like they always do. Anyone who's not a blood relative is going to stand out and they wonder if he was involved somehow but that didn't make much sense, especially when the detectives interviewed his congregation. Although it only consisted of about two dozen practitioners, they adored Pastor White. He was truly a godsend. They had been without a pastor for a while before John came along. It was perfect. Sally was a member and a Sunday school teacher and one of her sons was a locksmith and he came to change their locks one day and saw the ad for a pastor. He told John who had gotten his minister's license years before and he agreed to come see if he was a good fit. Donna Hunden, an elder at Christ community fellowship who had a role in hiring John three years ago, told detectives she could assure them he was a man of God that had nothing to do with Rebecca's disappearance. He was a good pastor, the congregation respected him and they had been without a pastor for almost a year and when John came to visit, they said that it was surely God at work. John was a helpful neighbor and friend. He'd even gone over to Donna's and cleaned her gutters on her house. He was mild mannered and easy to like. One of the church members, his name was Calvin Patterson, had six children and he lived with his wife Michelle right next door to Sally and John. They told investigators that John was a really close friend of theirs. He watched their children when they needed an extra hand and he even helped them build their deck in their backyard. He'd been in their lives and Rebecca and Sally's for over six years now. Everyone had complete trust in him. So they were actually upset when the investigators were giving him such a hard time, but they explained this was merely protocol. They had to do this. They had to roll everyone out and remember rumors fly. Investigators weren't just hearing positive things about John, so they had to do their due diligence. First of all, the bar staff, including the two women who John had spoken to that afternoon, Janet and Kathy, they gave their perspective. Apparently, the minister also liked to enjoy an adult beverage here and there, which is usually frowned upon in the Christian faith. But lately, they said he'd been coming in more frequently. Plus, he came busting through the doors that morning, asking about Rebecca and Janet turned to Kathy and told her you have to handle it because she did not like John. So Kathy said she tried her best to de-escalate the entire situation, but John was acting so distraught. What made the hair on the back of her next stand up was that there were scratches that she noticed on John's nose and on his hands, and the whole thing seemed kind of odd. They already had a bad vibe from him, and now this made him look suspicious. A drunken minister. I guess that could look bad on his part, but it doesn't mean that he's responsible for causing Rebecca harm. However, the scratches did raise another red flag, so investigators continue asking around. Now, with more pointed questions, asking people if John ever gave them any reason to think negatively about him, and that is when the neighbor Kelvin also brought up the drinking. He said he didn't like how John drank and how he cussed, and then he was also supposed to be leading their congregation, but not only that, when asked if he noticed anything off between John and Rebecca, Kelvin remembered something. He wasn't sure it was that big of a deal, but he figured it was worth mentioning considering the circumstances. Kelvin noticed that John treated Rebecca differently than other people, and he didn't treat her like a daughter because she wasn't his daughter. He said one night, John was talking to him, and he's like, isn't Rebecca such a beautiful woman? Wouldn't you like to have that? And Kelvin was like John, for God's sake, that is your girlfriend's daughter. What do you mean have that? Yikes. That definitely seems like a red flag, and Kelvin wasn't the only one who noticed weird comments like that. Rebecca's colleagues told the investigators they needed to look into John because of the comments that he would make about Rebecca's looks. She actually told some of her coworkers that she started becoming a little uncomfortable around John, and then one of the other mobile home park residents Matt Brown said that John would regularly cut through his yard to go to Rebecca's, and the last time he saw him, he noticed scratches on his face that looked fresh. Detective Patterson had already seen the scratches when he first came to the scene, and he questioned John right away about them. They were on the side of his nose. I'm showing it in the picture if you're watching and someone is hands, but none of them were very large, but the timing did seem kind of suspicious. John let him know that he did a lot of work as a handyman around the town and at his own house, and he'd actually been working on his trailer the day before, and his shelf fell on him and scratched his nose. He even brought Patterson over there to show him exactly what happened in winter. itself, and it did seem to add up. The scratches certainly could have been caused by an everyday manual labor, but they could also be from a struggle, one where maybe someone was scratching him with their nails, someone like Rebecca. So investigators felt they needed to keep their focus on him until they had another lead. At this point, Patterson lets John know that this is all just customary, that when someone was missing, you check the person who saw them last, and that he needs to be eliminated like everyone else closed to Rebecca one by one, and it would be very helpful if John sat for a polygraph. That way, once he passed, they could easily rule him out, and then they could move on and stop bothering him. Well, John was hesitant. I think a lot of people would be considering these are not exact science, they're not accurate so much so. The reports are not admissible in court, but Sally convinced John, "Listen, you have nothing to hide. I know it's nerve-wracking, but just get it over with." So John agreed. He jumped into the passenger's side of Patterson's police cruiser, and they went on an hour-long drive to Lansing, Michigan, where they had the equipment to carry out the test. While law enforcement worked tirelessly to uncover the truth, the community was not idle. In this small town where everyone knew and loved each other, people were desperate to help. Volunteers organized search parties to comb the area around Rebecca's home, hoping to find any clue that could lead to her whereabouts. Social media was lighting up with police for information and flyers with Rebecca's photo. They were plastered everywhere on telephone poles, shop windows, and community boards. The tension grew as every hour went by without any concrete leads. Meanwhile, on the drive to Lansing for that polygraph, Detective Patterson tried to establish rapport with John. He wasn't under arrest or even a suspect, but that's what you do as a detective. They had small talk about his family, his upbringing, being in the military, and he told Patterson about his life and what led him to becoming a pastor. John White opened up to detect a Patterson about why he was so hesitant to take the polygraph test in the first place. He explained that when he was a lot younger, he wasn't the man he is today. He made mistakes, and some of those led him to having a criminal record. Even though it had been a long time, he made sure to pay his dues and completely turn his life around and turn from his ways. That led him to the Lord. It's when made him want to change for the better what he went through in his past. But Detective Patterson wasn't expecting John's past to include prison. However, John explained that it's something he makes known right away whenever he meets anyone. It's something he doesn't hide. He says it's true. A long time ago, he was involved in a very sad case where a woman he was friends with died and he was there when it happened. She overdosed. And eventually, he had to do two years in prison, but the case was ultimately thrown out. And he got released. He even mentioned that to the church. The church knows about it. Sally knows about it. Everyone is aware, and neighbors had already mentioned this to the detectives. But Patterson was still alarmed. Something about it seemed odd. He wanted to understand more. And I mean, wouldn't you? I hope you do now because I'm going to tell you more about John and his past since they thoroughly had to look into him. After divulging that information, it kind of sent shockwaves to the police department. An ex-convict turned pastor. John was known as a success story. As someone, the Lord had healed and now he used his past as a lesson. Investigators were reaching out to John's family, his friends, so they could provide more insight into who he was and the struggles he had that led him to the Lord. So let's go back in time. To May 20th of 1957, the day that John was born to his parents, Juanita and John White Sr. John had an older sister, Lilette, eight years older than him, a younger sister, Christina, who was about four years younger than him. And they were very close, practically inseparable. Their father, John Sr. was a police chief, a fire chief, and the mayor of Augusta, Michigan, the city that they lived in, a small town. Their father was very involved in his community and everyone who they were. So when John Jr., the John we're talking about, we get into trouble, his dad was bound to find out. So he was usually on his best behavior. He had a really normal, healthy childhood. He's been a lot of time with his family, especially playing with his sister, Christina. John and Christina were very close, like I said, and she looked up to her brother and wanted to do everything he was doing, whether it was playing basketball, playing kickball, hide and seek. They did everything together and had a great childhood, like I said, a normal childhood. And I'm saying this because when investigators are looking into someone's past, they're looking for red flags. What kind of childhood did they have? Did they grow up with alcoholics? Were they abused? What is going on in their life? Well, they find out that his childhood was like many others. The children had rooms across from one another and Christina and John used to wait till their parents went to bed. They would stay up and then they would play together. And one of their favorite things to do was to throw stuffed animals back and forth to one another and they would laugh and laugh, hoping their parents wouldn't catch them. But as John got older, his mouth would get him into trouble. He had a habit of talking back and also playing a lot of pranks, if that's what you want to call them. For example, when he was in high school, him and a guy in front of his, they would go to the girls locker room and they would open the door just to crack and yell something crude, something that they thought was funny like, "I need a maxi pad." Hoping that the girls would get a good laugh out of it because they thought it was so funny. However, when John would come home and tell his sister, "Krissy, about what he had done," she would laugh, but then she would also shake her head and warn him that he was going to get in trouble for doing things like that. And John would simply shrug it off, telling her they were just having some fun. And it does sound like a typical teenage boy, but over time, it seemed like John was always making excuses like that one, especially when he was confronted about doing something he did wrong. John's dad did not tolerate lying. If John or siblings lied to him and he found out, he would take them into his room, shut the door, and then ask them to tell him the truth. If they didn't, he would spank them until they did. Now, Krissy obeyed, because she didn't want a spanking. But when she would hear John getting a spanking, she would actually cry. She wouldn't see her brother John cry, but it was like it hurt her worse just by watching or listening to it than it hurt John getting the spanking. Besides, John was never that emotional about things like that. He was more logical, which played a part in his storytelling. That's right. John had stories all the time. You can call them stories, or you can call them excuses, as I mentioned before. But it seemed like he never took responsibility for anything. If he didn't do his homework or got a bad grade, it was never his fault. Instead, he would tell you a story about why it happened, and it always seemed plausible. But then again, what young kids don't tell tales sometimes, right? And that's why Krissy was always assuming it was something her brother would grow out of. After high school, he decided to go into the Navy. He left for Japan for a couple years, and when he got back, he would tell these amusing stories about all the crazy experiences he had. A lot of times, no one knew whether John's stories were real or not. John liked to embellish. That's part of what made him a great story teller. He was very entertaining to his friends. They loved listening to him. But there was one story that stuck out to his sister, Krissy. A story where John admitted to hurting someone. He explained that one night, he met a woman at a bar, and they were flirting. They went back to his hotel room, took up, and John went to the bathroom, and when he came back, he went to the bed, and he realized that the person he brought home was actually a man. John told his friends that it completely freaked him out. He wasn't expecting that. So what did he do? He beat the hell out of the guy. All of his guy friends thought this was hilarious. Krissy, not so much. She didn't know if the story was even real. There were a lot of bad jokes with the very same punchline. It was really hard to tell, and she was so used to not knowing what to believe. But this was the first time she'd ever heard her brother say that he'd become violent with someone. But because she knew he was in a foreign place, he was in the military, going through training and all that, she figured it could have affected him so much mentally. Maybe he acted out because of stress or feeling fooled. She wasn't sure, but she also didn't give it much weight since it was just a story. When John got back from the Navy, he got together with one of Krissy's friends from high school named Don, who went by Vaughan since her middle name was Yvonne. So Don Yvonne, and they really hit it off. The pair ended up getting married, and then they settled in Battle Creek, Michigan at 146 College Street. And everything seemed to be going well. John appeared to be a doning husband, and they were planning to start a family soon. That's why what happened next was such a shock to John's sister. It was March 19th of 1980. Krissy was sitting in our apartment when the news came on the TV. That was normal until she heard her brother's name. The reporter said that 22-year-old Battle Creek resident John Douglas White had been arrested for stabbing a 17-year-old neighbor of his. But what was even more unexpected is that the victim was a female. Krissy couldn't believe this. What? How could that have happened and why? Of course, she immediately dialed John's wife, and she told her that John and their neighbor, Teresa, were down in the basement smoking pot, and apparently the young girl turned on him. She came at him with a knife because she wanted the rest of his stash. Don said, But she was upstairs when all of a sudden John came running up the stairs screaming that he thought he just killed the poor girl and to call the police. John was injured too. He had a bunch of cuts on his hands and his thumbs. They were both rushed to the hospital and the young woman had to go into emergency surgery, but she survived the whole ordeal. Chrissy rushed to be by her brother's side. She saw his wounds. She asked him what happened. And he explained what Don had already said. This crazy, druggy teenager came at him with a damn knife. Chrissy could tell from the cuts on her brother's hands that must have been what happened. He was stopping this woman from stabbing him. He said he was in so much shock he blocked out and when he came to, there was a girl just lying there on the floor, bleeding. He clearly defended himself. John was never the type to start things, but it was just so shocking to think that this girl attacked him out of nowhere in his own home. Chrissy knew John. He was always very protective of her. They were family. She knew he would never intentionally hurt anyone. Or would he? This ordeal made her think back to a time when they were growing up. It was the first time Chrissy had noticed her brother might be a little bit different and have another side of him. One time she threw a stuffed animal into his room like she always did, late at night. But instead of throwing one back, as she expected, John didn't throw anything. So being playful and wanting to get his attention, she threw something else. Except John walked right into her room and said, "If you throw anything again, I'm going to kill you." Chrissy was shocked. It didn't even sound like John. And it scared her a bit. I mean, there were a lot of older brothers and sisters who say very mean things to their siblings. They don't mean in the moment, and that's what Chrissy imagined it was. But she did have a feeling inside. They made her question things. However, being a kid, she let it go and she went to bed. Afterward, John just turned around and went right back to his room. And they never mentioned it again. Chrissy figured, you know what? He was in a bad mood. Maybe it was hormones. There were so many things that could have caused that and she loved her brother. So she never wanted to see him in a bad light. However, she never threw anything back into his room after that night. So she thought, could he be capable of hurting someone in purpose? Was that a real threat that he would have killed her or was he just being rude? Being a rude, bigger brother to an annoying little sister? Well, then Chrissy remembered something else. When they were a little bit older, they both had a newspaper delivery route. Chrissy was on her route one day and she came to this house and the family had this big, beautiful dog. It was really big. And when she got up to the porch, the dog ran out and jumped on top of her and unfortunately, the weight pulled her down to the floor. And when she went down, she went down hard. And of course, the family that lived there ran outside. They quickly helped her get up, get the pet off of her. But she was so scared she cried all the way home where her mom and dad tried to comfort her. After she calmed down, she realized that she had suffered some bite marks, but the attack hadn't drawn any blood. It was just really traumatizing for a very young girl. John just stood by her side as she explained everything that happened, but he never said anything. He didn't even seem upset about the situation, however. When Chrissy went on her paper route the very next day, the dog was gone. And that was a little surprising to her, but her first thought wouldn't have been what she was told happened. Maybe she assumed they gave it away, put it in a behavioral class, training or something like that. No, when she got back to school, her friends told her that the family was heartbroken when they found their dog dead. Of course, not from natural causes. They had been looking for it and they found that it had been shot out in the woods behind their home. At the time, Chrissy felt so bad, but she knew so many people in Augusta were hunters. They all had guns. And since the dog showed a crush in, maybe someone took matters into their own hands. But what she never suspected was that it could be her own brother. Or maybe she didn't want to believe he was capable of something like that. John never mentioned anything, so she forgot all about it until now, much later in life, because she'd never experienced John being violent, because he wasn't, or was he? Was there a part of him he was hiding? Chrissy began questioning a lot of things, especially when the girl that was stabbed claimed that John was the one who attacked her. Chrissy couldn't see any logic in that at all. It made no sense to her. John, in his own home, with his wife upstairs, just stabs a 17-year-old girl out of nowhere. Chrissy did not believe that John had hurt Theresa intentionally, but the case actually went to trial a year later in 1981. And John had to serve two years in prison for his part in the attack. He apologized again and again, and asked if there was any alternative to him doing prison time. But there wasn't. And while he was serving his time, John decided to write a book about his life. Remember he loved telling stories? Well, now he was writing one, and he sent a copy to his sister, Chrissy. She was so excited reading it, until something she read caught her off guard. It was the part where he talked about them having their paper routes. But then, John admitted to shooting the dog that attacked her. Chrissy was in total shock. She just wasn't expecting such a confession, but it was also how we explained what he did, that he got down on his stomach with his shotgun in front of him, just waiting for the dog to come outside and when it did, he didn't hesitate to pull the trigger and kill it for biting Chrissy and hurting her. That poor dog. He really hadn't put two and two together. He never mentioned it, not even once, never even hinted that he had done that. So this is when Chrissy began to think that John's sense of was right and what's wrong could be off somehow. And then maybe she really didn't know her own brother. But she believed that he had done this because the dog hurt someone he loved. But it wasn't just unprovoked. It did seem like bad luck followed John around though. Once John was at a prison in 1984, he worked as a long haul trucker, which Chrissy thought was really cool, especially with all the things her brother told her that he'd seen on his travels. She imagined how fun it would be to spend days cruising all around the United States and seeing so many different things. John was proud of his big truck. He wasn't alone either. He worked with a guy named Frederick Nichol. They spent hours riding together in the truck cab and he knew about John's past. He knew that he had been in prison but he also knew John as a gregarious, funny, easy going guy that was never violent. They rode together all throughout the 80s into the early 90s. And there was only one time that John ever raised his voice. It was at a way station in Ohio, one of the many tires on John's summer truck had gotten a flat. Any female department transportation worker wouldn't let his truck pass unless he got out right then and changed it. Well, he was pissed. He's already yelling and cussing and actually throwing out slurs at this poor lady. And that kind of surprised Frederick. But it was only borderline aggressive, not physical, just verbal anger. However, what he did know was that John could be a pervert. Those were his words, a pervert. Maybe John was just trying to do a little bragging, but he would show Fred had a tap into their truck CB radio and contact sex workers. As John referred to as prostitutes, that was the way they were labeled back in the 80s. And he would show his friend all the CD stops where women were willing to trade their services for cash. All the stories he would share with Fred about being in the Navy had to do with ports of call and women of the night, who he had encounters with. But all that changed when John got married. And by June of 1986, he and John had their first child, a son they named Benjamin. At this point, they relocated to a new part of Michigan called Kalamazoo. John was still working, his trucking route, but slowing down a bit since he was now a father. Over the next few years, things were going well. And in January of 1994, the couple welcomed their second son, Gabriel. By this point, John had stopped truck driving altogether. He was trying to have a more stable job in lifestyle that would keep him closer to home now that he had two children. So he took a job at an industrial laundry company called textile systems incorporated. He worked maintenance on their machines. He cleaned the linens for hospitals and other big businesses. But soon, there was trouble in John's marriage. He and Don were arguing a lot. And John confided in his sister, Christie, that he had met a woman where he worked. Her name was Vicky Sue Wall. And he thought he might be in love with her. Christie didn't want to hear it. But John proceeded to confess to his sister that he and his 26-year-old coworker, he was 37, were having an affair. He explained how they were meeting up in secret. In the back parking lot of one of the Meyer stores and having sex in his big up truck, Christie tells her brother he needs to be honest with his wife that it wasn't fair to her or their children for him to be doing that. But John said he didn't want to tell his wife. Months go by. And then in July of that same year, 1994, Christie gets a call from John's wife at like three o'clock in the morning. And she's frantic. She told Christie that John had left and he was threatening to take his own life. He was a wreck and Christie was completely freaking out. She gets in her car, she starts looking everywhere for her brother all over town and she can't find him. Later, Christie would read a report. that 26-year-old Kalamazoo woman, Vicki Wall, had recently gone missing. She recognized the name right away. It was the woman her brother was seeing, no wonder he was beside himself, but what was going on? Where was she? Had John's wife found out about their affair and it caused Vicki to run away? Or was there something worse going on? And did her brother have anything to do with it? Of course, the cops thought so, and Vicki had not been seen or heard from since July 10th. She was finally reported missing five days later in July 15th. Her car was later found abandoned in a Myers parking lot of Gold Road. The news was putting out information about her, including that she was a white female, aged 26, with reddish-brown hair and blue eyes, five foot three, weighing about 130 pounds. Well, when investigators go to that parking lot, they pull up CCTV footage, and it turned out that it showed a black pickup truck that looked just like John's, entering that same Myers parking lot and pulling up right next to Vicki's car at three o'clock in the morning on July 11th. Chrissy got out, gets into the truck, and then there's a bearded man in the driver's seat, and they're seen driving away together. That bearded man is John. That's clear. There's no mistaking it. He had a very distinctive look back then. Kind of shaggy dark hair with a full beard. The thing is, this footage never showed John coming back to where Vicki's car was parked and dropping her back off. So they need to question him about being the last person to have contact with Vicki. Now remember, all of this information is being gathered by the investigators on Rebecca's case. So they're finally wondering if this is the woman that overdosed in John's presence. Remember that? He openly admitted to everyone that he'd been involved in the death of a woman, and it caused him to serve time in prison. We already know about the stabbing back when he was 22, but that did not involve anyone dying. So they thought this had to be it. So they kept digging. They pulled up a police report from Kalamazoo County Sheriff's Department, Eric Donathan, who was the first to question John at the time that Vicki disappeared. The deputy actually remembered John from back in Augusta. Remember John's father was a cop. He was the chief of police and the chief of the fire department. So many people knew his family. And of course, because of John's misfortune with that stabbing back in battle creed, law enforcement were well aware of who he was. John denied knowing anything about what happened to Vicki. He said he hadn't seen her. And when he was confronted with the surveillance video, that's when his story changed. He did admit to picking Vicki up that night and hanging out like they usually did. But John said that she was, of course, very much alive when he left her. But there was no video of him leaving her. So it didn't make much sense, but there wasn't any evidence to suggest foul play was involved. So John was free to go for the time being. Within days of detective speaking with him though, John became distraught. He was depressed. He was having thoughts of taking his own life, seemingly over his mistress vanishing. His friends, including Fred, were really worried about him. And finally, he confided in his own wife, telling her, of course, about having an affair with Vicki, not divulging everything. But being worried about her, being gone, and him possibly being blamed for it because he was the last one with her. That's when he claimed. They had been doing drugs. And Vicki, all of a sudden, when he was going to drop her back off, she was unresponsive in the passenger seat of his truck. And he panicked, not wanting to get in trouble, especially because of his past. Because he was also under the influence. He panicked, and it caused him to black out. And he can't remember details. But he says he must have dumped her body somewhere. Well, this was shocking. But the blackouts, that was not a new claim. He had told his wife about his blackouts, even mentioned his blackouts to Deputy Dunathon when he was first interviewed, saying that it was possible he could have done something to Vicki if he had blacked out. After this, John told his wife, he was going to take his own life because he didn't want anyone to have to suffer through yet another trial because of him. He said the same thing to Fred, adding that in just a week or so, his wife would have letters written by him, explaining everything before he took his life. And his wife would pass them out to everyone afterward. The next night, Fred saw John riding his bike down the street and John apparently told him that he was on his way to take his life. Later, Fred went to John's house to check on his family and his wife asked if John had already done it. You know what he was referring to, if he was already dead. And that's when she also explained to Fred, the John had multiple personalities. And how when he's doing things, he feels like he's watching from somewhere else and someone else is doing them. She suspected that he was probably responsible for actually killing Vicki. And then it wasn't an accident, but it was due to his black outs. But we know that John never took his life. He apparently did attempt to drown his sorrow and pills and booze. But at this time, the detectives were gathering probable cause to make an arrest. They eventually get a search warrant in Vicki's case for John's house and his truck. They don't find any blood in the house. But when they sprayed his truck for a loom and all, it glowed in a couple of spots. But the issue was DNA testing was very new at the time and they needed a significant amount of blood in order to get a solid result. Plus, it had to be fresh, not dried. They used to need 500 nanograms. But now they only need half an nanogram and it can be old as well. But remember, they didn't have a body. They were still looking for Vicki while alive. And they couldn't arrest John at this point because he didn't have enough to do so. But it was evident there was a cleanup done in the back of that truck. John at this point had checked himself into Kalamazoo Regional Psychiatric Hospital. And the search for Vicki was still going on. Her family was desperate for answers. Then about six weeks after her disappearance in late August, Kalamazoo County resident Thomas Muschil was walking down a dirt road near his parents' land at the 7,400 block of East H Avenue. This area is only two miles from the Myers store where Vicki was last seen getting into John's pickup truck. As Thomas is walking down this familiar road, he looks towards the ground and he notices something very odd looking. There's drag marks in the dirt. When he gazes towards the direction they go in, he spots a white tennis shoe. So he ventures further into the brush on the side of the road and he sees a path where it looked like someone had trampled over branches and brush and the grass. It was flattened down. So he walked that trail and saw a pair of women's underwear on the ground. And then he noticed the smell. It was intense. It was very future and he knew right away it was a smell of death. As he kept going, he saw a part of a human school and he immediately ran back home to call the police. When homicide investigators arrived on the scene, they found the unclothed body of a female. Her shirt and bra were pulled up around her neck. Because the remains had been exposed to the elements for over a month, she was sadly heavily decomposed. There wasn't much left. So when they did the autopsy, the pathologist could not determine a cause of death, but did list the manner of death as homicide. Given where she was found, her clothing being missing on the bottom half of her body, her shirt and her bra, up like that, this was evident. It was probably a sexual crime. Since John was the last person Vicki was with, officers went to the psychiatric hospital in September of 1994, a week after her body was recovered and they arrested John. He was charged with open murder. Now every state has a different classification of murder. Open murder is a common way of stating there are multiple theories for a homicide. They don't know how the person died, but they know it wasn't natural. I know this is a lot to take in. This case is about Rebecca and I don't want anyone to forget that, but these other victims matter, and of course, all of this is related to John, a person very close to Rebecca and her family. While the detectives on her case are uncovering all of this, it's only making them more suspicious of John. Of course, this was many years ago when John refused to talk after his arrest for Vicki's death. He wouldn't take a polygraph, so without enough solid evidence, prosecutors presented him with a plea deal, and he accepted it. He pleaded guilty to involuntary manslaughter of Vicki Wall. While he was waiting his sentencing, he wrote his wife a letter saying in part that he was just feeling somewhat of a relief now that things were starting up, adding that he was coming to grips with the possibility that he may go to prison for the rest of his life. And he can't help but think, maybe that was the best for her and the kids. John's sister went down to the jail and visited him in person, mainly because she wanted to get his side of this story. So here's what John told her. He explained Vicki was into rough intercourse, which involved erotic expectation, and in other words, she liked being choked. He told a sister he picked Vicki up, they did some drugs together, and then they were engaging in intimacy when she just slumped over in the seat. And when he tried to move her, there was no response, and that he was really, really scared. He didn't know what to do, so he dumped her body in the woods. His sister's response is probably what ours would have been hearing that. Why didn't you call for help or drive her to the hospital? His answer? He was too scared. Well, imagine how scared Vicki must have been. Why is it all about John? Chrissy couldn't help but think, "Wow, here's yet another story, another excuse." She knew that people did not just fall over dead, but she loved her brother, and she wouldn't allow herself to believe that he could be capable of hurting someone, so she took him at his word, that this was a tragic accident. But she was older now, and in the back of her mind, she began putting all the clues together wondering, "As John ever told her the truth, these situations that he kept finding himself in, it seemed too unbelievable. He can't be that unlucky." At his sentencing in May of 1995, John made a statement. He said that he loved Vicki, and he even apologized to her family, saying that this was a very tragic accident. He never provided any details, just that he loved her very much. Well, he has a very weird way of showing love, doesn't he? If it was truly an accident, and he loved this woman, why not get her medical assistance? John loved himself, more than he can ever love another person if he could even be capable of true love. The way that we know it anyway, normal people, people who aren't as unlucky as John. Kalamazoo County Circuit Judge John F. Folly sentenced white to a maximum that he could, eight to 15 years in prison, saying, "It appears from his previous violent acts against women, and yet this unexplained violent act again, that he is dangerous. He has a dangerous level of self-control. Yeah, he has no self-control, clearly, and I think you are starting to see a pattern here." And John's sister was too. She remembered back to the stories John used to tell her about his days on the road, as a long-haul trucker. He would talk about the women he used to call "lot lizards," another degrading nickname for females, that he found no worth in, except for his sexual pleasure. He told his sister they would come up to talk to the truckers all the time, and they would try to talk to him, but he would never touch him. He would never hug up with him. But that's not what his friends told her. His friends told Chrissy that these women would come into his truck, and after they would spend some intimate time with him, he would dump them in a dumpster. Now, he wouldn't tell his friends that he would actually kill any of these women, just that when he was done with them, he referenced throwing them into a dumpster. Chrissy had always assumed that John's friends were just making up stories, but now, after all she knows, she wondered if her brother had actually killed these women. Women who wouldn't be reported missing. Chrissy, that's why he liked being on the road, and that's scary and sickening. But at least he was behind bars. John was sentenced to 13 years without parole for Vicki's murder. We're still talking about Vicki? I don't want anyone to get confused, leave. It is nowhere near done. During this time in prison, his wife divorced him, and over the years John began to devote his time to studying the Bible, and he eventually repented and turned his life over to the Lord. All incarcerated, John also went to group therapy sessions, as well as violent offender treatment, and he frequently met with mental health professionals. Finally, he actually got his ministers credentials while he was in prison. He was a model prisoner, spending all of his time in the chapel. His parents also passed away while he was behind bars. His father died in 2002, and his mother in 2006, a year before he was released, and he was released. He served his time, and in 2007, John Douglas White was a free man. The only person he had left was his sister, so he reached out to Chrissy, and he asked if she would take him in until he could get back on his feet. He told her how he had given himself to Christ, and assured her that his past was behind him. Of course, it had been so long they both lost their parents, he was all the family that Chrissy had left, and she wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt. Having a compassionate person and sensing that there was actually a positive change in her brother, Chrissy allowed him to come move in with her and her husband. John tried to find churches to minister, but because of his background, he was having a hard time getting hired. He was also doing some online dating, trying to get out there and meet new people that he could relate to, connect with, and that is when he met Sally. When John's sister met Sally, she was a very nice woman. She had a good sense of humor, she was funny, she was very easy to talk to. And Sally told Chrissy that she adored John. She loved him, she was so happy, and this made Chrissy happy too, because she truly wanted John to have somewhat of a normal life after everything he had been through. And she could tell that he really loved Sally. But Chrissy couldn't help but wonder if Sally knew about John's past. First, she asked her brother to Sally know about what happened in her past, and he told her, "Yeah, she does." But of course, Chrissy wanted to confirm with Sally herself. So when the ladies were alone for a moment, Chrissy asked Sally, saying, "Did he give you all the gory details?" And Sally said, "Yes, kind of made me cringe the way that she said that." It was gory, it was horrific, and you haven't even heard details yet. Just wait. I'm not telling you all this for nothing, I promise. Details are going to matter, and John sure as hell hadn't revealed any details to anyone yet. It was the one who told John about the opening for a pastor's position at her church, and John went in for an interview with the elders, including Donna Hudon, who I already told you about, and Catherine Cotter. He explained to them that he was involved with a woman who was using drugs. The poor woman died from an overdose, and he panicked and ran, which I kid you not. Donna said she theoretically thought could probably happen to most anyone. Really? No, it's a red flag, but to these women they believe that John was being upfront about everything, that this talk they had with him was enough, because they liked him, they liked his sermons, he seemed to be a nice guy, he was a perfect fit. The church took him in, they welcomed him with open arms, Catherine even added that they had no reason not to believe what John had told them, saying, "I mean, why would you, you know, tell someone you're in prison and make up a story?" Well, Catherine, because you're a killer. A killer that wants to get in a position of power and authority so that he can easily gain the trust of women and then eventually have his way with them, and then dump them like trash. Maybe that's why. But the elders said they thought it was surely God at work. John would repeatedly thank his small congregation for giving him a chance. But deep inside, John wasn't reformed. He may have believed he was, but he was a bad man. He used religion so that people would feel at ease around him. And for six years, things actually did seem pretty normal in his life. John was happy, he told his sister how excited he was to be part of Sally's life and her family, how we loved taking on the role of a father figure to Rebecca, and how much he talked highly of little Conway. That's when John's sister got a phone call from him in Halloween, telling her that Rebecca was missing, and her thoughts went to hoping that Rebecca was just somewhere with a friend. That is time went on, and John informed her that she was still nowhere to be found, and police were searching for her. It was like deja vu all over again. Chrissy knew that a mother wouldn't have just left her child behind like that. She began to have a gut feeling that something wasn't adding up. The common denominator in all of these unfortunate events in John's life was John. It made Chrissy jog her memory for any red flags when it came to John and Rebecca. And she recalled a time that John called her really upset because Rebecca had promised to come over and have pizza at a movie night, something they had routinely done before Rebecca started dating Aaron. Well, one night, Rebecca backed out of their plans to spend time together with Conway and Aaron. That's gonna be a big deal at all. She's an adult with a life of her own, and John's her mother's boyfriend, not hers. But the way he was going on and on about it to Chrissy, it was weird. It was like, "I can't believe she did that, after all that I've done for her, I've done so much for her. I can't believe she would just stand me up like that." And he would repeat himself over and over again. And Chrissy thought he was being really ridiculous to be this bent out of shape about a young woman, not wanting to come over and hang out with senior citizens. But at the time, Chrissy didn't think much of it. But now with Rebecca being missing, she's expected that John may not have had a father, daughter, type relationship with Rebecca, at least not in his eyes. It's almost as though he was obsessing over her, and it didn't seem healthy. With all this new information, detectives on Rebecca's case wonder what really happened into recent Vicky's cases. Something didn't seem right about the information that John provided to people. It's like it was rehearsed. Vicky had said it so many times. So they dug up the case files, and this is when things become intense. There had been a trial in Teresa's case, and according to her testimony, John had most definitely attacked her, that his whole demeanor changed in instant. She actually said that it was like he wasn't even there anymore, his eyes were black, and he began stabbing her over and over again. Well, they actually tracked down this woman. She's married, so now she's Teresa Morris. She's 49 years old. Wait until you hear this. This poor woman. She was only a girl, back in 1980, just 17 years old when 22-year-old John White moved into her neighborhood with his wife. Teresa said she was a normal teenager. You ran around with the kids from high school. school. She's been time studying and never had time to get into any trouble. Teresa was also very beautiful. Something John noticed right away. Teresa wasn't friends with John. She had noticed him here and there, said hide one when she walked around the street near his house. And John always seemed a little bit off to her, but they never really did anything more than just exchange those highs and buys until March 19th. She actually met up with John that day by chance. She was looking for a friend of hers and she asked John about them. Teresa was about to get on her way to continue looking for her friend. When John said, "Hey, come look at my slot car racing track that I made in my basement." So we invited her inside his house and to be polite, she followed him. She walked in first in front of him. They were all alone down in the basement when she got this cold feeling. She heard a voice in her head tell her she should leave, but before she could, John ran up from behind and stabbed her in the back under her right shoulder blade. She couldn't even grasp what was happening until she turned around to face him. And that's when she saw the knife. A second later, she was being stabbed in the stomach. She recalls watching him stab her and the look on his face was one of pure pleasure. He was actually smiling back at her. Wow, that is absolutely terrifying. After this, she fell to the floor and he was holding her down while he kept stabbing her over and over again. And that's when he told her this wasn't his first time and that she was making this much more difficult than it needed to be. Because she was pushing him. She was fighting back. She was trying to get away. She was scratching him. She was biting him and screaming at the top of her lungs for him to stop pleading with him and yelling for help. John told her to shut up. Then he told her that she was going to be a nice piece of meat. She actually had the moment to ask him what he was talking about. And while she was trying to get out of his grasp, that's when he began calling her his wife's name and telling her if I can't have you, I'm sure it's hell not going to let anyone else have you. Then he stood over her and asked her why she wasn't dead yet. It was confusing and terrifying for this young girl. He kept going and each time Teresa could feel all six inches of the blade. It was like it was in slow motion. And she was like, wow, this is what it feels like to be stabbed. She was getting weaker and thought I'll just go to sleep. Then maybe he will leave me alone. So she played dead. And he laid her out on the floor. There was so much blood. It was all over her and the ground. He thought she was dead or nearly dead at this point. And that's when he wiped the blood off of her mouth and started kissing her. Then he held her hand and he said, you're going to go now. I'm really sorry you had to go like this. But what the fuck? You're just a woman. Oh my god, this monster. It's disgusting to hear these words coming straight from someone who survived such evil. That's when he brought up the knife again. And she knew he was going to cut her neck. So she hung her head down. And she prayed that it would be quick, but it went across her chain instead. He picked her up, put her in his lap like a child. And he rocked her back and forth, saying, shh, just go to sleep. And that's when allegedly his wife walked into the basement. Minutes later, she was standing over Teresa with a sheet. And both she and John placed it over Teresa's face. What? In those last moments before police got there due to the neighbor hearing Teresa screams, she was begging Don to help her but according to Teresa, she did nothing. She walked away. Teresa was rushed to the hospital in the ICU. She underwent emergency surgery to save her life. She was stabbed 15 times and very lucky to be alive. John's father immediately hired him a defense attorney, James Toppert. And the case went to trial. A jury convicted John of attempted murder and his sentence was 10 years in prison. And the judge also recommended mental health counseling. Teresa was promised that John was never going to be able to hurt anyone again. That was the last she heard about the case. And she moved on in her life trying to forget what happened her. Although I'm sure she relived that moment in her mind every day. What Teresa was never informed about was John's appeal and appeal that he won. His claim and effective counsel, he argued that his attorney had made the mistake of not raising an insanity defense for him. He claimed he'd been suffering from partial amnesia. I know it's unbelievable, but the state court of appeals reversed the jury verdict and remanded the case. The appellate judge's opinion was that the defense counsel was more concerned with the desires of John's father who had retained him than the best interests of his client John. Because as it turned out, John's dad, he didn't want to pay the thousand dollars or more for an independent psychiatric exam for John. And that was needed to claim insanity. Instead of a new trial, John was actually given a deal two years probation. I'm not talking about jail time and then probation. I'm talking about no jail time. He was being released after just two years. How? Well poor Teresa, she didn't even know this that he was free. So can you imagine her surprise and her utter shock when four years after this incident took place and she was almost killed by this man? She's sitting at the Secretary of State's office. She's in line and literally heard his voice behind her. The distinctive voice she could never forget. She turns around and he's standing there. She said that she had been hearing that voice in her head almost every day since she was stabbed and there he was. The monster was just smiling back at her like nothing ever happened. She instinctively goes into defense mode and picks up one of those posts that makes the dividing line at a bank. And she went over to him and almost starts beating him with this. Of course the security guard comes over. He tells her to run, which she did. This was just a few years before the State's Victim Rights Act, which requires courts now to include victims in every step of the legal process. You have to be notified if the defendant is released from prison. John had told the judge in this case that it was by the grace of God or whatever his words that the victim in this case was still alive. He was talking about Teresa, so he meant to kill this poor girl. I want to finally go back to the current case, the investigation that was going on Halloween evening in 2012. Twelve hours had gone by since Rebecca had failed to show up at work. The investigators are desperate to find this young mother. They don't know whether she's still alive or not, and they're hoping that John will give them answers. Remember where we left off, John was riding with detective Patterson to Lansing, Michigan for a polygraph test. And during this car ride, Patterson's building rapport with John. They finally get John in a seat for the polygraph. If a person passes, they'll usually just move on to other leads, but if they fail, they take it as a sign they need to do a more thorough interrogation of a person. So when John is asked about whether he knows anything about Rebecca's disappearance, he says no, and tells him the same story he's already told. But the machine picks up that he's being deceitful. Patterson leaves the room, corresponds with Detective Green and other officers who had been gathering all the information that I just told you. So Patterson now knows everything you know. He knows he has to do an intense interrogation of John. Meanwhile, the officers are still canvassing the mobile home park, and soon enough a trooper calls Patterson with some crucial information. When he shined his flashlight into the back of John's pickup truck, he saw it appeared to be blood and a necklace. And when he examined the necklace close up, it was apparent that it was still classed together, but it was broken in the middle, as though it had been ripped off someone's neck in a struggle. This is huge, but it's also very sad, because even more blood has been found. And investigators are now fearing the worst that Rebecca Gay is dead. So Detective Patterson requests search warrants for John's trailer and this pickup truck, and to take pictures of what's inside the bed of that truck and send them over to him, because he wanted to confront John with the evidence as leverage. They were sure that he had something to do with this, and they were hoping to get a confession. While Detective Patterson is listening to John ramble on about his past, all the excuses for his misfortune, officers are searching his trailer that he lives in with Sally and his pickup. Inside the trailer, they found a rubber mallet inside of a plastic bag. They found zip ties and contractor-sized garbage bags like industrial size. Bigger than the normal kitchen style bags, these were 55 gallon black garbage bags. Wow, that is incriminating. I mean, he did say I do a lot of handy work, but this type of handy work is at the hands of a killer. It's more and more clear with every new piece of evidence, but wait until you hear what they find next. Underwear. Victoria's secret, extra small size that matched Rebecca's size, and of course, they're not her mothers. He was hoarding these pairs of underwear. God only knows what else he was doing with them. This looked like a picture of a pair in his freezer. Just a look if you're watching isn't that [BLANK_AUDIO] frozen food underneath? That is so bizarre to me. But wait a minute, actually, that looks like that's actually his trash. I'm sorry, that is his trash. He's trying to get rid of them with bags of old food in his own trash bin. Wow. So dumb. But you know what? I'm glad when a criminal doesn't think because that's how they get caught. At this point, Patterson gets those pictures of the blood and the necklace in the back of John's blue pickup truck that was parked outside his trailer. And he shows this picture to John. John's acting so confused, saying he doesn't know what it is, that it looks like blood. And I like Patterson because he is in no bull crap. He's like, that's exactly what it is. Patterson's expertise led him to a strategic move. He could tell for what it was worth, that John seemed to at the very least be indebted to Sally. Because love is a very strong word. But that's what Patterson used. He said, he thought that John was in love with Sally. And by all accounts, from what he could tell by the way, John spoke of how she changed his life for the better, helped him get his pastor gig, took him in his family. He loved her. So Patterson decides to use Sally as a way to get John to break. He begins to say, listen, John, you love Sally. The best thing for Sally is to give her answers. We don't want Sally to be wondering where her daughter is and that her body was most likely going to deteriorate in the cold wet weather. Did he want that for Sally? At this point, it's obvious. John knew. He was caught. And that's when he clammed up. He said he was done talking, saying if they were going to arrest him, he wanted a lawyer, which is his right, of course. This interrogation had gone on for hours, nearly 12 hours. It was early the next morning, November 1st, now, around 4 or 5 am. So Patterson asked John if he would like a bite to eat. Since at this point, he had to stop the interrogation since John asked for a lawyer. Apparently, John had lost his appetite, so he declined any food. So Patterson used another tactic, isolation, where detectives will purposely leave the room and let a suspect just stew by themselves. There's something about someone sitting with the weight of what they're facing that often makes them break. And it worked. After he sat there for quite a while, while Patterson was speaking with the DA's office, he comes back. And John immediately says he wants to make a deal. He knew they got him. So we asked for one last phone call, which was to Sally, life in prison and to be in solitary confinement, segregated from other inmates. And I'm guessing this was to avoid the death penalty and being killed or harassed by inmates. But later, I think it becomes even more clear why you requested these things. Patterson says the only way that I will make a deal with you is if you tell us where the body is. He cut to the chase because it was clear, especially from John's violent past, that Rebecca was most likely not alive. Not only did John agree in writing, but he admitted something chilling about his past crimes, which he went into detail about as if he was just getting it off of his chest. Remember, Vicki? The one he swore he loved, that it was just a tragic accident. That's not true. John had a fetish that he claimed started when he was just 11 years old. He said he had an imaginary friend when he was a kid. The began telling him about dead girls and how to have intercourse with them and what it would be like. That's quite the imaginary friend. It's like the sixth sense, but way more cynical and disgusting. But apparently, he admitted to mental health professionals that he had these fantasies of necrophilia. I'm sure you know what it is. If you don't, don't look up too in depth. Don't go down the rabbit hole because it's intercourse with the deceased. In 1995, he even admitted to fantasizing about killing the prosecutor on his case and his defense attorney and then using their bodies for his pleasure, double yikes. The prison warned both of these women to stay far away from him, but there's more. When it came to it really happened to Vicki and probably why he stabbed Teresa back in 1980. It was all about necrophilia. The night Vicki died. He couldn't hold back any longer. His craving had increased and normal intercourse just wasn't enough to satisfy this growing urge that he had. When she got into his pickup, he swiftly punched her as hard as he could right in her stomach. And as she hunched over in pain, he slipped a large zip tie around her neck and pulled it tightly until she was no longer able to breathe. Then he took her into those woods close by, and he had his way with her corpse. I'm disgusted. I'm appalled. This is just ugh. And all of this was being divulged to detective Patterson. And the worst is yet to come. John said he regularly watched what's called psychothriller films, similar to snuff films, I guess, where guys strangle women and then have their way with the dead bodies. Ugh. And then he goes on to admit that when he drinks, that's what he wants to do to women. His inhibitions are diminished. He loses control. And he claimed he had been drinking quite a bit the night before Halloween, having four to five beers. And then he began watching those type of movies. And don't be fooled. Even though John's telling this story and this how it happened, this was planned. His obsession with Rebecca had been growing over the years. And recently, the urge to live out his fantasy on her was getting stronger. He knew what he was doing. He had been fantasizing about her for weeks and what he was going to do. He said that earlier that day, when he came over to visit calmly in Rebecca, he purposely left the back door to her trailer unlocked. Then he waited until he knew that they would both be asleep around 2am. And then he walked across the lawn to her trailer. Let's hear it from him. Clearly having the rubber mallet was intentional, so was leaving her door unlocked, drinking was something he did to get some liquid courage. It wasn't the other way around. But when the door opened and closed, Rebecca, who was a light sleeper and mother protective of her surroundings, she woke up. She quickly jumped out of bed, she looked out the window, and then she started down the hall. And when she came around the corner into the living area, he smashed her in the head with a mallet over and over again. He says he doesn't know how many times. And as he was hitting her, she actually turned and looked at him shocked and said, "I know you. That's all that she could mutter before collapsing onto the floor." And then John watched her. He said she was still breathing. And this. This next part is so sickening to me. He told the detectives. He was looking at her, and I don't know if he said this out loud or to himself. But he goes, "Oh, I brought zip ties. Just listen to the way he says it." Oh, I brought zip ties. Oh, I brought zip ties. For a moment, for a tiny, like moment, I thought that he was going to go, "Oh, and it was going to be remorseful or regret." But it wasn't. It was an owe of excitement. She was still unconscious, but still breathing. And he slipped the zip tie around her neck and pulled it tight, and then he sat back on her couch. And he watched her struggle to breathe until she took her last breath. All this is happening while little Conway is asleep in his mother's bed. John then drags Rebecca onto the kitchen floor, removes her clothes, and disgustingly fulfills his fantasy. Even though in the interview or interrogation, whatever you want to call it at this point, he claimed. He claimed the detectives. Oh, no, that didn't happen. I didn't get that far. I might have grabbed her chest and this and that. I couldn't get it up. I was having trouble. It wasn't exciting as I thought it would be bowl. I'll let you know right now. He's lying. He's trying to make this look less of a heinous act. Then he tried to clean above the blood with spray cleaner and whatnot and towels. And clearly, he didn't do a good job. Then he grabbed her phone, turned it off, got her car keys drove to an on-site dumpster, and threw away her phone inside before parking her car at that bar and walking back to her trailer. He placed her bloody clothes and towels into a big construction garbage bag and then stuffed her inside that bag as well. Then carried her out to his pickup. But when he did, the bag ripped and some of the items and blood spilled out into the back of his truck. During the two-mile drive, he stopped two times, once to dispose of her body at the intersection of Pickard Road and Coldwater Road, the same road the mobile home park was on. And then he drove to the next intersection at Pickard and Woodruff and he got rid of her clothing and the towels and the mallet. He had more than one mallet in his trailer. The other one in his trailer was unused. Then this monster told Patterson he drove back to Rebecca's trailer in time to get little Conway up and dressed to me his father that morning. Can you even imagine that poor little boy then John's okay with the thought that he just killed this child's mother? It's unreal to me. No one will actually ever know if Conway heard or had seen anything at night, but John claimed he was asleep the entire time and I truly, truly hope so. As John was recounting all these details, there was a notable lack of remorse. His confession was chilling, not because of the acts themselves, but because of his calm and almost casual way that he's describing them. Patterson actually called him deplorable. This man had feigned concern. He'd led prayers for Rebecca at the church knowing all along where she was. As her loved ones were desperate for answers. The officers on this case, Sheriff Medusky, Lieutenant Stoliker, they were hurried to wear John's confess to disposing of Everything. And it was clear, he didn't even try to hide anything. The bloody towels and clothes were just lying there in a pile. The mallet tossed several feet away. It had dried blood and blonde hair still stuck on it. They recovered a bright green shirt, a pink towel, a pair of athletic shorts, and a couple other white towels covered in blood. Her back his body was discovered lying behind tall pine trees in a ditch right off the side of the road. She was lying face up and she had clear ligature marks around her neck with a distinct little square in the front. That's consistent with the end of his hip tie. She was transported to the medical examiner's office for an autopsy. Sheriff Meduski told the media that they were hoping for a miracle, but they knew as soon as they found her, that this was never going to end the way that they wanted. The recovery of her back his body was a devastating blow, not only to her family, but to the entire community. They had rallied to find her. Lieutenant Stollaker said that even as a seasoned officer, this is not something you can ever prepare yourself for. You do your job, you investigate the crime, but when it comes to cases like this, where there's someone so close to the victim, and you find out that they're the one who has done it, it shakes you to your core, and I have to agree. These are some of the scariest cases that I've ever researched. Now it was time to give John that phone call that he wanted. So Detective Patterson called Sally and told her that John wanted to speak to her. This honestly was so uncomfortable to listen to, but I do have the audio and probably the video too, so I'm going to play it for you, but just brace yourself. Okay, I had to pause it. He's so aggressive. He's like, listen, will you listen to me? Probably because how odd is it to be like, I love you, but you're probably not going to hear from me again. I wonder why? I think that was enough to let Sally know that John was guilty, so she was probably frantically asking him like, why, why? And then he's like, I can't fix this. That's for sure. Then he just closes the flip phone up, ends the call, just like that. That was how poor Sally got the word on what happened to Rebecca. Of course, officers, they gave her an official notice that her beautiful innocent 24-year-old daughter was dead at the hands of her boyfriend, the pastor of their church, a man that so many had trusted. These swabis cheeks for DNA and they put him in jail. And I heard him saying in this interview and I'll play it. He's like, I'm definitely a monster. I'm a terrible monster. In the aftermath of John's confession, Sally was of course shattered. This was the man who promised to be there for her and her family. He watched over Little Conway, he was a big part of their lives and to learn that this man had not only betrayed their trust, but taken her daughter's life was too much to bear. And for what? For a few minutes of pleasure we've heard this before. Sally was heartbroken. In her heartbreak was compounded by the knowledge that John had used his position at the church to fool everyone. She never suspected that he harbored such dark and violent desires. And she really struggled to come to terms with his dual nature. She once loved him and now it just shows that her kindness and her compassion, it was taken advantage of. And that's something that I wrestle with, understanding, because I don't understand how you could love her and then kill her daughter. But I also want to say before you want to blame the congregation or Sally or anyone for allowing this monster near them, just know, these criminals are good at hiding. If they weren't, they wouldn't be able to carry out these crimes in the first place. They're manipulative. They weasel their way into people's lives. They gain their trust. And then they strike. And so many spoke out, including his neighbors, the one that he used to watch their six children. And they were like, we would have never let him near our family. And it's chilling because John even made a statement to them about his past. He was standing in their kitchen. And he was like, oh, you wouldn't want to know me back then. I was like Charles Manson. When someone tells you something about them, believe it. Rebecca's coworker said she was increasingly uncomfortable around him to the point where she was actually considering moving out of her home. And when Erin found out the truth, he was completely broken. He mentioned that as soon as Rebecca got her a permanent hair, John's attention on her increased. She told him that John was showing up at her work and acting strange and making comments about her parents. And we know now that he'd been fantasizing about her for quite some time. Sally was of course so heartbroken. She said that Rebecca was so excited. She had just signed up for college and told her the night before. And she was so excited. She said she wanted to be something in her life. And John stole all that away from her for what? Pleasure, fleeting pleasure. It's sick. Sally said that she first made contact with John on Halloween night in 2007 because she was lo and sum. She was looking up people online. And John had been extremely nice to her. But over time, Rebecca and her other children didn't want to be around John. She said evidently they saw what I couldn't see. And I should have listened. That day Sally called John's sister and she got this sinking feeling when she heard Sally's voice. She sounded very upset. She told Chrissy they found Rebecca. She'd been murdered and John confessed. Both ladies just cried and cried together on the phone. Chrissy was so shocked. And she felt horrible that poor Rebecca had gone through what she went through. It made her hate John. I mean, obviously, I don't know. To me, I feel like I would have seen the signs. But then again, I don't know because I don't have personal experience there. And this is when Chrissy finally realized that only an evil person could do something like this. That night, 200 people gathered outside of Rebecca's high school to remember her. Even her 11-year-old niece shared about her aunt, saying that a lot of times she would spend the night over her aunt's house. They would have popcorn together. They would watch Spider-Man. Her name is Ariana. And she said that Rebecca was always a very good role model for her. And she taught her not to look at the bad things when something happened, but to focus on the good. But as for John, even this 11-year-old was wise enough to say, she wouldn't forgive John. That his actions will be between himself and God. And it made me kind of cringe when I heard Donna Huton, who was in charge of hiring John as a pastor. She remarked that even though this has been a horrendous week, there are blessings in the midst of all of it. She asked that the hands that held them up now hold Sally up. But I'm thinking, where are the blessings? Because I guess I wasn't there to witness them. But to me, it just seemed like she didn't want to take responsibility for allowing this man into the church. Aren't there background checks for businesses like this? I don't know. I know it's a small church. But that seems like a position of power that needs a lot of oversight. But as far as Donna was concerned, she said that John was doing a lot of good. And Satan did not want him doing good. So Satan got to him. She did say that even though Christians are supposed to forgive, she couldn't forgive him at that point and she thought it could take a few weeks. I don't think I ever could. The autopsy report concluded there was blunt force trauma to Rebecca's head and her body. But her cause of death was triangulation. And there were clear signs that she had been violated. There were abrasions and things like that in that area. I'm not going to go into detail. So John lied when he said that he didn't act out as fantasies on her. Not surprisingly, John sent a letter to a sister while he was sitting in jail waiting for trial. And this is what it read. Quote, "Dear Chrissy, I want to tell you how much I miss you. I love you dearly, Chrissy. And I do understand how pissed off of me you must be. I know what a disappointment I am to so many people. And I am so sorry." End quote. Chrissy said that that was the first time she ever heard John ever say he was sorry. And she didn't believe it. She thought he was only sorry that he got caught. He was actually hoping that one day they could talk. But she wasn't going to talk to him again because she knew it would just be another excuse, another story. What reason, what justification could he possibly give for this? None. He called her every single day sometimes more than once. But she refused to ever speak with him again and she did not attend his trial. Rebecca's celebration of life was on November 6th at Homer United Methodist Church. Aaron sister Teresa mentioned how her brother got Rebecca an engagement ring. And it was the fact that she never knew. She never knew that broke her heart. But she thanked her brother for bringing Rebecca into their lives. Aaron's mother Lisa Quinn couldn't believe that any human being could ever do something so evil to someone that her family was still in shock. Especially because Rebecca was just so loving and kind. And that her son Aaron was devastated. Lisa was the most upset over Conway never saying his mom ever again. She was like he sleeps with her every night. How are you going to tell him that someone that you trusted did this to his mother? There's still a shocking turn of events coming. But first, John took a plea deal. After a psychiatrist evaluated him and said you are fit to stand trial. So the insanity defense wasn't going to work this time. The 55-year-old third-time offender signed an agreement Wednesday, March 27th 2013. He pleaded guilty to second-degree murder at his sentencing Sally spoke with her other her daughter Deborah by her side. She said I stand here today to be the voice of Rebecca because she knows longer has a voice. She asked, "Why? Why was he ever let out of prison twice?" Sally also mentioned that her four-year-old son, Conway, is the one that will suffer the most, and that John showed no mercy for Rebecca, so she wanted the court not to show any mercy for him. John just sat there in his orange jumpsuit, shackled in chains with his beard, hanging all long and ungrouped. He looked so evil, and still showed no emotion. On August 28th, just a few months later, John's sister got a call. For some reason, in her heart, she already knew what the call was going to be about, and officer was informing her that John had taken his own life. He hung himself in a cell, and it really didn't face her because the brother that she knew and loved had already died so many years ago. She didn't know the man that she saw in pictures in the court, the only person in her family that she had left, and it wasn't even the brother she remembered, and she was so glad her parents were not alive to see any of this play out. She said, "He deserved to rot in hell, and I tend to agree. I definitely don't think he gets to go anywhere good if such a good place exists." I think he's in the other place. In the aftermath of Rebecca's murder, many questions about how a man like John could have been allowed to walk free. How could the system fail? Not once, but twice. Fail to protect the public from a violent man like this. And the answer is, inadequacies and illegal system at the time. For Conway, the impact of his mother's death would be lifelong. Too young to fully comprehend what happened at the time. He was left in the caravan's father and extended family. The joyful days he had spending with his mom playing with scarecrowers, picking out Halloween costumes. Those were all just memories that would fade as he got older. Conway wouldn't understand the depth of tragedy for years to come, but the trauma would shape his future in ways that no one could yet predict. Years later, when a friend of Rebecca saw him out in public, she couldn't help but run up to him and tell him all about his mother. And to her surprise, he told her he was glad she did that because most people were too afraid to mention her. And he wanted to know what kind of person she was before she was taken. I always try to end with a message. And what I think is important is to truly try your best to investigate the people who come into your life. It's hard without a registry for offenders like this. They don't have one. There's only several states that I know of that have violent offender registries. I think Florida, Texas, Indiana, Illinois, Montana, Kansas, and maybe Oklahoma. Yeah, there could be more, but there's not enough. And they all have varying requirements for an offender to even be listed. And that's God to change. The public should be able to access lists like this so that we can protect ourselves. But for the time being, do your best. Don't just trust someone's word. Trust your feelings, trust your gut, and do your research the best you can. Until next time, please be safe. I will see you in my next video. Bye.