Haliburton on His Return, Preseason Thoughts, and Most Intriguing Players!

Coming up on the Zach Lowe show preseason basketball is here. There's a lot of news. Tyree's Haliburne is back. There's some injuries. There's some early hot takes and observations. Nikias Duncan, I know he's mainlining preseason basketball the same way I am. We're just going to go back and forth, random preseason observations and takes things. We've noticed things that just were put in our back pocket. I know it's only preseason, but that could be interesting for the regular season two, or that's kind of alarming for the regular season two. And then we pick each of us are single most intriguing player for the upcoming NBA season. Then Nick Friedell is here to talk about the Warriors. It doesn't seem great. Isn't better than we think it is. What's going on inside the words is Pajemski can get a new deal. Lots of hype about Yaxxolendaborg. I like him too. We talked to Nick about that. And then yeah, Tyree's Haliburne came back last night and looked pretty damn good. The Pacers looked good. Guess who's here to talk about it? Tyree's Haliburne coming on the Zach Lowe show to talk about everything that's happened since game seven of the 2025 finals should be a fun conversation. That's all coming up next on the Zach Lowe show. Welcome to the Zach Lowe show. The NBA is back preseason basketball is happening. There are already some fun on court trends. There are some actually important injuries. Unfortunately, we got to talk about Tyree's Haliburne is back. Nikkei is stuck in. If there's anyone I know who is watching some of this preseason action may be focused on the Southeast Division, maybe not along with your WNVA work. It's you. So we're going to nerd it up about early season, not even early season preseason trends. How are you this morning? I am doing well. There's been so much basketball this year that I am soaking in and enjoying. I'm also trying to make sure I stay sane as we now have the W playoffs mixed in with all the preseason things that are happening. So lots of note taking a little bit of sleep, but we're having fun. Let me tell you, you're catching me on a good day. I'm in a good mood today for two reasons. Would you like to hear them? Yes, I would. Number one, Tyree's Haliburne played his first game since game seven of the 2025 finals in Oklahoma City. We all know what happened. And the Pacers are back. I know you watched the first half. I watched the first half. Obviously, he's a little rusty. Obviously, he's kind of feeling his way into the game. He's not forcing anything. There weren't any step back threes really in all the Tyree's like highlight stuff, but the passing the vision, the off ball movement, all the stuff that he immediately injects into their offense was there. I thought his movement looked pretty crisp and his ability to change directions on a dime looked pretty crisp. The shot is the shot. It's always going to be there. I thought it was a super encouraging first step. Pascal Siakum was playing so hard that it almost made me uncomfortable. I was like, dude, chill. I know you've been waiting to play meaningful basketball for a bit now, but I love to Pacers immediately look like a team, like this is a team that knows each other. And it was a nice reminder like we're here. The east is loaded, but like we're here. We're going to have some kinks to work out with the spacing and zoo bots in the bench. And is it Jarrah's Walker? Is it who's the backup five? I'll be top and look great, but I'm in a good mood because the Pacers looked ready to go. Yeah, I think you nailed it. They looked more like themselves in this preseason game footage as much as you can take from preseason action. Tyrese immediately injecting a level of organization into this offense, I think it was good. I think the biggest thing for me as he works to knock off some of the Russ is just going to be how often is he driving, how deep into the paint is he driving? And so a little bit of a mix back there understandably so in his first game back, but you saw when he was able to generate paint touches, the whole breath of the offense opened up. He could still get to those push shots if necessary. He has to lay dump down. He has to kick out passes in there. And then when the ball is taken out of the basket, like he is just immediately getting the ball up there. Like the pace is right there again. So I'm excited for him, happy for him personally. And then on top of that, he just makes this Pacer team make a lot more sense. I'll also just sprinkle in while we're here. Jarrah's Walker continued to raise the brow for me. Fun preseason for him so far. Six times and six times in the first half, I think. And clearly they've decided we're going random preseason observations. So here's what they've decided that he's jumped over Ben Shepherd in the bench hierarchy. I think that's a smart decision and his playmaking is why and he looked like he looked, we'll see what the shot making and the decision making and the defense, but he looked like the right upside bet to take like whatever the eighth ninth, but that guy's going to play 15, 18 minutes a night. And I think as you get into some of the smarter liners, we're going to have him on the floor with O.B. topping with Pascal. So yeah, I can like just having a little bit more size and still maintain some utility offensively is going to be important for them. So I like what I have seen so far. I just want to see more preseason action to see what it looks like when the games start to count, but stock up for Jarrah's Walker for me right now. Let me tell you a story, Nakias. Fall of 1996. Little Zach Low just turned 19 years old sophomore year of college. I'm in a dining hall in college watching game one of the American league championship series between the Yankees and the Orioles. My match that year, 71 and 91 disastrous season, but we were coming. We had some young pitching. We had some interesting players. Todd Hungley was starting to become a thing. I was a little upset about how the season went and obviously I hate the Yankees. The Yankees had won the World Series in a long time. It was a great era of bad Yankee baseball that was ending. Game one. You may be too young to know the name Tony Tarrasco. Game one of the American league championship series. Almost 30 years ago to the day, Tony Tarrasco was about to catch a mundane Derek Jeter fake home run to right field. One of many fake home runs Derek Jeter would sneak over the wall in his career. And then a fan Jeffrey Meyer reached over the wall, caught the ball, stole it out of Tony Tarrasco's glove. The Orioles never recover. There was no replay. The stupid umpire Richie Garcia got to call completely wrong. Home run Yankees win the game. The gluttonous fans rejoice. And 30 years later, all baby, I hope everyone in that stadium felt a wave of joy pulsating in their bodies when Anthony Volpe hit a home run over the wall when yet another gluttonous fan couldn't help himself and reached over it. It would have been it would have been a hit. It would have hit the wall was not going to be an out. I hope they all had what I had when Croatia tied the World Cup against Portugal and the rest screwed them. I hope they had that joy. And then it was ripped out of them because this time 30 years later, the fan and was not rewarded. The Yankees were not rewarded. They are going home having been swept by the Tampa Bay rays. I was laughing this morning in my house telling what happened to my daughter who was asleep and my wife who doesn't care. I was laughing like the million dollar man, Ted DiBiasi just cackling to the point that my my family thought is there something wrong with him? I've never seen him like this before. Am I a jealous bitter Metz fan? I am. Am I jealous that the Yankees have won far more than the Metz? I am. Am I angry that the Metz had a higher payroll than the Yankees this year and failed and the Yankees were in the playoffs? I am. Would I take a sweep in the National League Division series? I would. All of that said, boy, am I in a good mood today? I hope Tony Tarrasco wherever he is. I don't know where he is is having a great day. I hope Jeffrey Meyer wherever he is having a bad day. And the razor moving on. So I'm in a good mood today. And the guy said, not that that kid in the dining hall, that 19 year old kid. I was really upset. I was unhappy. I said, I can feel it. I can feel the world shifting back to the Bronx in a way I don't like after all these years of Mel Hall losing and Don Manningly losing all this. And it did shift. They won a lot of World Series. And it was a nice, nice little karma karma with 30 years, but it came. You know, I am glad that you are in a good mood. I didn't expect this to be the reason, but it's someone to lose to the part that probably shouldn't have been teed off to me. I am not a big baseball guy. I have a lot of Yankees Mutuals, oddly enough. And so like seeing their tweets come through the timeline and the best of all the basketball. It hurts. It hurts. It hurts. I was like, oh, nobody's having a good time right now. And I can't even console because you have dream liberty going down to the wire. And then eventually ACE's boundaries was crazy in that fourth quarter. But, you know, I love this for you. I'm glad the younger version of yourself got a little come up. It's with the ways that am I proud of any of this. I'm not, but it's who I am. And, you know, self-awareness is important. The Brewers are now our team in the little household. But anyway, okay. We're just going to bounce around free season is what it is. Some teams play their real guys, some teams don't. The first half of these games is very different than the second half. You can't read anything into it. But you can just like back pocket some fun stuff for like, I'm going to remember this one the regular season starts. And sometimes the preseason matters like the 14 15 warriors kind of announced themselves in the preseason is like, this is a completely different animal. Watch out for us. So let's just go back and forth random preseason observations that are interesting, good, bad, whatever. You can lead off. Give me something you've noticed. Okay. I will start with a little bit of propaganda. I am super intrigued by this Memphis Grizzly team. I think your tears. talking to the right guy I've been driving the Memphis Grizzlies playing bus for a few weeks now. But so I'll let you sing it. Go ahead. So we are alive. When we had you on the podcast earlier this summer, just talk about things that brought us joy. I think we both mentioned some Memphis Grizzlies related things in the midst of all the losing that they did. And so getting into this preseason action, they have that opening game against Atlanta Hawks. And the offense is well space. The tempo is fantastic. They are moving cam booze around the board. Ty Jerome looks fantastic. They're cycling guys in and out. They're maintaining their full core pressure defensively. So the tempo continued to be up. And then they just continued to flow. They can just die. It's you up in so many different ways with so many different players. I ended up tweeting it out. Perkling the glass. It was like 115 offensive rating in the half court for the Memphis Grizzlies in their opener. Which again, it is preseason all the caveat side. I saw that game and I saw what the offense looked like. It's like, yeah, this is why I'm high on them. Earlier this morning, I am watching the Grizzlies Magic game. And the Orlando Magic were not very kind, particularly in the first quarter against the Memphis Grizzlies. Like we are also going to do the full court pressure thing. We are going to be super physical with you off the ball. We're going to mix in some unders, going to mix in some switches. Let's see what your offense looks like. And when the shots are falling, it could look pretty bad, which also some fun stuff happening on the Orlando side. Maybe we get there. But it was cool for me, someone that is intrigued by this Grizzlies team and ultimately high on this Grizzlies team. For them to have this kind of test in back to back games, where you still, what it looks like when it's working, freeform to get to Hawks team, that was good last year. And then you get this Orlando team with a bunch of sides. Like you're seeing Tristan De Silva on Ty Jerome. He's like, okay, what does that look like if you put more sides on Ty, since he's going to have a lot of ball handling responsibility. Good tests for them. My entry remains. I guess I'll leave it there so I don't get too happy. But keep an eye on the Memphis Grizzlies where I started. I mean, I couldn't be more excited about Cam Booser. He's starting at the four. The matchup with Ban Carroll was awesome. I said he guarded Franz as well. He's playing a little bit at the five. And let me tell you, he had a moment where he was at the five at Nick Luchovich. He was hit in threes was on him. And he it was like immediate barbecue chicken. I'm taking you off the bounce and and one for Cam Booser. I'm super excited about the kind of next layers unpeeling, etc. Cowards on ball game is a secondary pick and roll guy. I guess my worry about the obvious worry about the Grizzlies is they probably don't have a top 50 player in the league on their team depending on how Cam Booser does this season. And if Zach Edie is healthy Zach Edie played last night, he's been massively impactful when he plays. We'll see how much he plays. He completely changes their team. I guess my my worry is a you know, they're going to win a lot of games with depth. And so they're going to look really good in the preseason in the third quarter against the other teams backups when their backups are playing the other teams backups. I don't know how much that carries over. I'm a little worried about their passing in overall and in their starting five like Cam Boozers and awesome passer. And they'll they'll get places with Jalen Wells and Cedric Howard attacking closeouts. But I'm a little worried with Ty Jerome, who I really like and will score the hell out of the ball. Just a little worried about the collective passing, but I remain optimistic about the Grizz. I think that's fair and I think just in terms of the scoring like one of the things popped from the early it is Jalen Wells and the start lineup is set up Jeremy Grant, which I should have figured that was the way to go just to get some lineup bouncing going to make sure the second unit has a level of punch to it. So we'll see how long they stick with that. I don't think the passing thing is unfair. I think that is where kind of their space in principle is the way they scheme things and how quickly they move. I think the theory is we'll be attacked so quickly. And you have so much ground to cover as a defense that we can open up easier passing reads for everyone. And so as long as you're able to maintain whatever advantage they get, they should be okay, but I do think that is a fair criticism to have. My turn. I watched the Bulls first preseason game last night. Okay. I'm just putting this in my back pocket. The floor was really open for Caleb Wilson and modest Muzele to do their sort of second side slicing diagonal attacks with Jalen Smith starting at center as a real stretch five and Nick Claxton who's injured not playing. Obviously, there's a defensive cost and I have a Nick Claxton. You're just not as good. You're less switchy all of that. But I'm just like just already I'm putting it in my back pocket of like Caleb Wilson will see how the shot comes. Muzele will see how the shot comes. Gidey I think is probably kind of a done deal is a shot. I don't know if it's going to the off to dribble three is ever going to be a plus and not a minus for him. The captain shoots fine. He's always open. I just they're all downhill attacking players with size and shaky slash unproven jumpers. I just like the way everything looked with a stretch five in there and I'm sure the Bulls have noticed that too. Jalen Smith was great off the bench last night. It was like last year, rather. I'm just I'm just putting a pin in that that's all. No, I think that part is fair. Like I want to dig into that one in particular. But I think broadly speaking, the Bulls were a team last year. You look at the shot profile. We get to the rim of time. We're going to get a bunch of threes up. We're not going to take mid rain shots maybe to the chagrin of my toss muzele's who may want to experiment a little bit more inside the arc just in the middle of the floor. But either way, like very structurally sound in times of the shot location at the very least, they're going to play with tempo. And so if you do open the floor and line up with Jalen Smith at the five, that is more room for Josh get to get downhill, which quietly got a little bit better dealing with contact last year. The 14 foot floaters or push shots turned into 11 foot floaters and push shots. So you continue to map out that progress. Caleb Wilson is going to get downhill. Mark's muzele's is absolutely going to get downhill. And so the bones are there structurally. And if you get any kind of internal growth, it's going to be an offense that annoys defenses that aren't ready for them at the very least. So I appreciate the shot. Your turn. I guess what we're talking about fun offenses and spacing in general. One, a quick get Wilson to use a nerve edge. But okay, well, let's let's let you continue with the jazz because I want to hit their catch for sure. Oh yeah, I was going to see we can we can hang with her. But I'll get Wilson and the use of nerve edge will circle back to that front. But getting to see what this Utah jazz offense looks like, I already was pretty high on it heading in just because of the stuff they run the way that we'll hearty spaces as guys, particularly the bigs kind of getting hurt things if you need to seeing this with Darren Peterson, where he compared it to Somerley, where he just had the ball in his hands a lot to now. Here's the ante George initiating. We can let Laurie have the ball a little bit use the knuckles before going down. You have some of the high post high post up stuff. I like to fit in the context for Darren Peterson. And in general, I think this Utah offense is going to be very good. Like they just have so many things to poke at as an offense. They have so many skilled guys, so many mismatches they can create. I'm excited to watch the offense. Other end of the floor is going to stress me out. And I think starting the preseason against the Denver Nuggets of all team will probably accentuate some of the problems they're going to have on their front, both in terms of how they can match it physically and from a size perspective, how well they can end positions. And if you just look at this out, I have even bigger questions about the rebounding for Utah. But offensively, at the very least, they're going to put points on the board. You nailed it with nerc. Look, if he misses four weeks, which is his reevaluation timetable, tack on another week, just because that's how it usually goes. It's like 12 games because we're still well into the preseason. It's not the end of the world. Like we always overreact to these short term injuries. Teams just find ways to win random games that maybe it looks like a bad matchup on paper. The jazz have a lot of talent. I'm with you. I think offensively, this team is going to be really good defensively. You lose his size. You lose his rebounding or in all of that for a team that doesn't have a great defensive infrastructure or the triple J. And like everyone else, I'm curious to see, you know, who is actually guarding the elite ball handlers on the other teams, because Darren Peterson's not ready. He can't do George isn't ready. And this gives them an opportunity, I think, to experiment with, hey, how does it look if we either start a smaller lineup, like maybe Ace Bailey slides into the starting five, maybe Josh Akogie slides into the starting five instead of just replacing nerc with Jackson Hayes or whatever. And like we're committing to big ball, which I think is how they want to play with nerc. This gives them a chance maybe to see like, hey, maybe does it make more sense for us to start a wing with some defensive size and acumen. I mean, Ace Bailey's not quite ready for that yet, but he's interesting. But I agree with you, the cost on defense and just the the facilitation you lose in the high post and how marketing works off the ball and how triple J works off the ball. It's a it's a meaningful loss that could cost them a game and every game's going to matter. Maybe an opportunity for Kyle Phil Powski to play with the two starting base because, you know, passing is probably his, his best skill. As long as we're on injuries, a couple of other things we should mention. Man, I don't even know what to say about the clippers at this point. Like, it might be time for Chuck De Condor to fly south for the winter or something, because Brandon Ingram suddenly's got partially torn Achilles. Max Trues got hurt in preseason. He's going to be out for a while. It's just not, it's not going well. And obviously, Max Trues is there to get traded eventually, no matter what the clippers say. So maybe none of this really matters. It's just, I really would like the next clipper headline to be like, Keaton Wogler gets a puppy and it look how cute the photo is and not any of this. And then in Philly, really sad one, Ariel Huck-Porty, who was said to be their third string center and maybe their second string center, well, Adam Bono is injured right now, short term, but still towards Achilles. I mean, just a brutal, brutal break for a guy looking for an opportunity to get real minutes. And, you know, Nick Nurse came out and said, yeah, we're going to just do like backup center by committee. Bono will get first crack. We've got Dom Barlow, we got Jabari Walker. He mentioned going small with Dean Wade or LeBron at the five. I would be very cautious about doing anything that overtaxes LeBron at all in the regular season, including guarding fives or acting as the five defensively. Obviously he can do it. He's like guarded yoke in spot minutes and done fine. He can do everything. But that's just a bummer. For a team where that position is critical because of how many games in bead will miss. And you know, like I don't think Huckport is like changing your season either way, but it would be nice to have as many as many cards in that backup center deck as you can. Yeah, like I think on the Philly front, one, just a blanket injury suck and like seeing that happen in real time and seeing the slow more replay when it ends, like I just hate all of that. Within the actual on court context, I think you know that you want to have as many options in the four slash five room as possible. So you can maintenance, you can beat a little bit during the regular season. You don't want to put that on LeBron. You want to say that for like high leverage matchups in the ultimate of the playoffs, if you want to get that go that small. And for a sixers team that already had like some defense of rebounding questions about losing your backup center, that certainly doesn't help ease my concerns on that front. So I'm curious to see how you're going to play out of that. And because of how the stitches built their team, they're dealing with apron restrictions. It's not like they can even sign another big off the street, just to help in a short turn if they want to. Like it's going to have to be some a trade of some sort to make that work. So I'm curious to see if they wait this out and just work with the option that they have. Or if they do try to make some sort of like two for one deal or something, just to loosen things up. So let's see what happens on that front on the clippers. Echo your sentiments that I have said that you just get the late angry news, Max Bruce, in the first quarter of the opening preseason games because that's like, well, it didn't take long. And I was enjoying it. I actually had clipper notes prepared. It was like, I kind of like how the offense is functioning. I am excited to see for however long he is healthy, there is Garland at the helm of the offense without having to like share with another small guard, et cetera. I just want as many good vibes for clipper fans as possible because this entire summer has just been nonsense for them specifically. I would do lots of good vibes and let's see some Darius Garland. Let's see. Really had to murder continue to shoot like 80% on threes and come off staggers to get open looks without having to dribble. Let's see Keaton Wagner continue to build on what has overall been a strong summer for him like a shaky first of summer league game, but he's responding in a real way getting more comfortable attacking till to be offensive. So there's some fun to be had. I would just like for them to stay healthy enough for us to be able to talk about it in earnest. All right. My turn. Speaking of the sixers kind of it's been two preseason games, whatever. I didn't watch both of them. The AJ Mitchell Jared McCain bench duo is going to light the fucking league on fire all season. I mean, they are going to just blitz opposing second units with their collective off the dribble scoring, three level scoring, McCain's been throwing some bullet pick and roll passes in the preseason. And they are just I mean, obviously sometimes AJ Mitchell might start if somebody's out and all of that. I just think they're going to light up opposing second units. And a day, Mara has shown some really fun flashes in preseason. We'll see how it carries over, but like a couple blocks and then dunks on the other end in transition, a couple post ups over smaller players on switches that looked pretty deft. Again, they've got a million centers on the roster and the dilemma of how much do we want to play CHEP at center now that our perimeter guys are all healthy. And we have enough wing depth to maybe do that more. But I just think McCain and Mitchell, it's just not fair the dynamism that they're bringing off to bench. I mean, they are going to be toying with some of these opposing second units. This under team is going to be so incredibly good again. And just a quick hat to to my guys, Steve Jones, who was I think live tweeting that game last night. And again, it's his more thoughts earlier this morning. So I want to get to watch that one in full. I've got to see a little bit. I've also seen like clips on his timeline. But this is kind of what the thunder do. They build up second units, they trust, they get, start throws to the young guys. Once they evolve, they get traded to keep the both cleared and other guy still looks like an assembly line of quality talent. And so now you get a full season of the Jared McCain experience, curious to see what he does inside the art, but outside of it, he's going to light it up in OKC needs all the shooting that he can provide for this group. And we saw what AJ Mitchell did last year, like just continuously got downhill and self created the minutes with him in shape, let's leave on fire last year. And I'm sure whether he starts or not, there's going to be plenty of time where he is playing alongside Shade Gibbs, Alexander, and like letting him toy with the second or maybe the third best pointer defender on the floor. That's not a fun proposition for defense. And I'm right there with a diver like if there's any sort of like chat injury or if I say a hardsteins out or whatever, being able to go to that guy for like 15 minutes, like yeah, have fun trying to score at the rim when you already have all of these perimeter defenders ahead of you. That's ready to say the ball from you. They're going to turn you over on top of that. It's unfair. It's well done. I'm excited to see more from your turn. Oh, well, I am wearing like a Miami Bay shirt. So I will circle back to the very first preseason game of the 2026 27 season heat rappers was a lot of fun. We finally got to see what Yannis in Toronto or Yannis in Miami looks like against the Toronto rappers. So it didn't have everyone. So again, preseason caveats, all that good stuff. My baseline question is something I've talked to Eric Spolster during like introductory press or some things earlier this summer was, how does he feel like the blend is going to go between the spacing principles that they introduced last year and ultimately removing screening as a concept that felt like it's a within that. And now having Yannis who is very good at like inverted picking roles. And when he wants to screen can also be a very good role on top of that. Getting to see the mix of Yannis with a clear floor. As the heat are just kind of cutting and relocating all over place. He's getting out hill. He's generating catch a shoot threes for everyone on top of that. And then when you don't stick to the shoot or we do stick to the shoot, he's now getting all the way down hills. It's like, this is what you want it to look like if you're the Miami Heat. You're seeing Clay Thompson's all fall Grammy pop. You're seeing Bam out of bio, being booed around the board defensively. We're seeing Yannis and Bam in tandem, just kind of switching out, loading up help, pretending to rim. Color Larson looked good, Andrew Wiggins looked good. Again, it's preseason, but like that's kind of what you wanted to see. Multiple drives, clean catch a shoot looks created. Not a lot of like redundancy in the half court. The defense was switchable and active, but you still had a presence at the rim on top of that. It's not going to be what they shot from three every night, but like that's kind of the formula you wanted to see. So I just want to give a quick answer to the heat for what they look like. Yeah. I mean, if Yannis is healthy, they're going to be a very good team. If you place 70 games, whatever 68 games, they're going to be a very good team. He's got to be healthy in the playoffs, which he hasn't been. I'm still interested in just sort of the what is Bam doing when Yannis has the ball question and how they work that out, but there's a lot to do. There's a lot of places he can be. They can play two-man game together a little bit, agree first sign encouraging. All right. My turn. So do observations. Okay. Number one, Jaina McDaniels looks ready for a big season. He's just playing and has played for a while, but these these preseason games he's been playing with just a level of like bravado and confidence on offense that feels even a little bit amped up to me. And I just think to Kaminga fit, it's been two preseason games. I was kind of pessimistic about the spacing of it on offense and sort of like how are they going to work with that? I'm intrigued after two games. It's going to be messy and clunky on some nights because that's just the nature of the beast. But hey, the aunt Kaminga McDaniels trio is pretty fucking big and physical on the wing on defense. And you've just seen enough of like like Lamello Kaminga pick and roll on one side of the floor. If you switch Kaminga's rolling ahead of that switch and Rudy's in the dunker spot looking for an outlet pass and Kaminga is so fast that even if the help is there, you can go through it or even more promisingly like aunt Kaminga empty side pick and roll on the right side of the floor, kick to Lamello, Lamello go bear pick and roll on the left side when the defense is already in motion already compromised like they're hitting all and they're running Kaminga clearly has the green light to like grab and go on tree in transition. Like they're hitting the right buttons for that to be a workable offensive combination. I'm still a little skeptical and you know, if it if it doesn't work very well, I owe coming in is the obvious solution. The bench is like really dependent on Terrence and a junior looks all right and baronjay who looks all right and you know, bones whose bones, but I the first glimpses of the Kaminga go bear fit look a little zippier than I anticipated, honestly. So, you know, TBD, but I there a team obviously that everyone is super intrigued to watch. I like that. I think you know, we just talked about the was a little bit on the recent episode of the Dungers, but I think the thing that popped first year and I was just the injection of pace, like it's obvious because Lamello balls in the building, but like just seeing how quickly they're getting the ball across half court how quickly they are flowing from side to side as you already mentioned. It's one thing to have the threat of Lamello on one side and on the other, it's another thing where you have to deal with that within like 12 seconds instead of 18 and so the fact that you have that kind of skill, that kind of pace on top of that just makes it difficult to deal with one of my baseline questions for the world is going to be like how do they deal with teams that want to switch and so having a Kaminga that is willing to slip out of there and you have finishing opportunities or even if you're just talking about transition stuff, he doesn't mind like sealing people. Oh yeah. He's been doing it already. Like if I got a small on me randomly like I'm going right to the rim and they're feeding them the ball. Yeah. So like they are already. Look at his preseason. So checking boxes is going to be aggressive, but it's like good to see sound process on that front to where we can't hit these slips. You can't hit these duck insers. seals already. We have some side to side flow without two star guards. And I will also just know I think they more and others have hit on this. It feels like they've already thrown like 30 lops in the preseason already. Like the vibes just generally seem to be high. And so I'm also glad you hit on kind of the defensive struts of like the perimeter guys so far. Like I'm also cute to an eye on how attentive these guys are going to be off the ball because the line of it's just strutting in the way that you would imagine there's going to be more switching one through four with Rudy kind of roaming the back line. It's not enough to switch. You still do have to be actively. You still have a plug gap. She's still going to be ready for relocations and cuts and things like that. It's very early, but I've been encouraged. That has to sustain as we get into regular season basketball for the walls, but they very much have top three offense top six top seven defense potential. So I hold in it. Do you say top three offense? They can. I think the three point rate is certainly going to be up there. And nervous is incredibly good. LaMelle is going to juice the transition attack. And this is a wall team that have guys that can get out, but historically haven't been a great transition team throughout this era at the very least. I think it's on the table. It's I like that. All right, let's take a quick break. We'll toss around a couple more quick ones and then hit our most intriguing players for the upcoming season. This episode is brought to you by State Farm. Every player brings something different to the field. Some at speed, some at power, some have their own podcasts. It's true. That being said, no two players are exactly alike. And the same is true off the field. That's why State Farm takes time to get to know you so they can help personalize coverage for your life and budget. Like a good neighbor State Farm is there. All right, I guess it's your turn. You got one. Go ahead. I will be quick with this one. Watching some Sacramento Kings. I kind of like there is a cuff and the multisabona's together. I have all the questions in the world about what that's going to look like defensively. I think like we saw last year, this is very much going to be subonus at the level. Let's hope our rotations behind it are going to be strong. But there is a cuff show very early on in some going back to some belief that he's going to be a guy that created his own shot. He's comfortable to navigate in tight quarters. He can shoot. He can drive. There's a fun playmaking chops. He has to decide in two paths and how often he wants to do so. But the passability is there. And with the multisabonus, one, you use them as a hub that takes some of the creation burden off of a cuff and two on a very basic, but important note, he is such a good screener. His exchanges on handoffs does such a good job of forcing the finish to go over. It makes like easier for there's a cuff to put guys in jail and they kind of navigate those tight quarters inside the arc. So just a quick note on that duo offensively at the very least, I am intrigued. I like what subonus can mean for a cuff for however long subonus is going to be in Sacramento. Subonus is a pro. I don't doubt that he's going to do subonus things and play super hard and ferociously as he always does while he looks for the exit door. I have a good chemistry for you about how their season started. I heard this about a week ago. I called up people who could verify it. It's been verified. At their first, they get they all arrived for training camp. They went out to a fancy training dinner. The whole team, the staff, everything. And at the dinner, Vivek Ronda-Divey spoke. And he kind of turned the dinner into a roast of lots of people in the room telling them all the ways in which they have been failing as players, coaches, executives, whatever. And I checked with the Kings and they confirmed the gist of that, I would say. Some people were alarmed and were like, this is not going over the way you intended. Some people thought I get what he's doing. He's using the fact that we've become a media punchline to like motivate us. Like he was not saying, I, Vivek Ronda-Divey believe these things about you. But here's what people say about you. Prove us wrong. But it was described to me as a prolonged roast that landed with some of the audience and not some of the, and some of the audience not as much. So like the Kings are the Kings. Okay, a couple more rapid fire ones before we transition. I mentioned the bulls. Dale and Swain dribbling the basketball makes me a little bit nervous. But, you know, like he won't have to do that as much when the real games start. I'm already tired of Dylan Brooks and the season has even started yet. Just like just like enough. Just like enough man. Like the really like I know this is your stake and you've become famed. We all got it now. Just like save it for when it really matters. And the pelicans I just took note that they started to use me see over Derek Queen in their preseason opener, which I think if you want to have a competent defense and a more engaged Zion, I think that's probably the way to do it. And yet Zion still, again, preseason game, whatever. Like he's just still in this netherworld of like old Zion who I sewed and ran pick a point Zion Zion who would occasionally center like not that often, but occasionally Zion who was really the fulcrum of everything the pelicans had. That guy like exists here and there, but a lot of times, even with me see starting and all the ball handlers they have it at one point, they played. I took notes. They played Jeremiah fears, Jordan pool, Benedict Matheryn and Cedique Bay all together. I'm like, good freak and luck making that work on offense. But he's still a lot of times just kind of hanging around the baseline. Dunker spot extended, not as involved as he used to be. So I just there's a lot of talent on this team. And I've joked before like as jumbly as it is. And I mentioned that lineup and all the guys who need the ball. There's going to be like a fourth quarter, like a quarter of every two every week where you watch them, you're like, did they just score 45 points in a quarter and look like the best team in the world. And then the next quarter, they're going to give up 40 and like turn the ball over eight times and probably lose the game. They're just such a bizarre team. But I just don't think design situation can be scrutinized enough in terms of like he's on a semi expiring. Do they, is he really a part of their long term core? What is he who would trade for him? It's just a strange brew over there. Yeah, it's like they've reached the inflection point of how much they want to invest in him because you have Derek Queen in the building. And because it just kind of feels untenable having them on the floor together defensively. So you do just kind of get told where you have to choose one and try to accentuate their strengths, but also kind of hide their weaknesses on defensive end. I don't think you could do that for both with the rest of the personnel that they have. I'd say other quick notes that I have to kind of close things out back to the Kings. It may just be because the roster doesn't have a bunch of good defenders at all. But in summer league, Emmanuel Sharpe popped for me immediately. And in preseason, he will foul, but he's going to be very physical. He's just a very good screen navigator while thinking about random defenders, Alpha Diallo and Denver. Yeah, very fun. I think I'm already forcing, I think, an ACEC evaluation in his first preseason game, because I'm just like, okay, that seems like a lot of fun for me. I'm trying to think, is there anything else I want to hit? Those are probably the two. Oh, actually by the Lakers tossing out some of their acquisition wing, some of the young guys, rampant of full court pressure. We'll see how much that sustains as we get into the regular season. But they didn't feel like a high pressure group last year. So that seems like a little bit of a shield for them. We'll see if JJ Rites speaks with that. JJ is optimistic. And so I take note of things like that, because JJ says nothing lightly. I think the Lakers are going to win a lot of games. I just think the two teams in the West that our juggernauts are just going to be too good for almost everybody. Okay, let's ship gears. Every year, I would write this column when I used to be a writer, my six most intriguing players for the season. I have done that version of the podcast already over the summer. I don't even remember who was on it. Scoot Henderson was one of them. And I said, um, I have separately a player who is my no brainer most intriguing player for the entire season. I'm going to do a standalone segment on him. So that's what we're going to do today. But I said, I want you to pick. I know you and Steve Jones on the Dunker spot. Wonderful podcast, everybody should listen to it. I have done your sort of version of that most interesting players are intriguing players. But I said, why don't you pick one? And so we'll have our like actual apex most intriguing players. The guys were like most obsessed with for the season. So I'll let you go first. Who's your guy? I know who your finalist for this world, but I don't know who you picked. I ultimately stuck with the Eastern Conference. I would would have him bubbly for this for a bunch of reasons. One, he is still he's incredibly good at basketball and young for a Cleveland Cavaliers team that I feel like as I've like seen projections and read articles and tweets and listen to different pods. You think about the top tier of the Eastern Conference and is naturally New York because they just won a lot of Boston love a lot of feeling intrigue. There seems to be a very wide range on how good the Miami heat are going to be for people. Some feel like they could be top three, some feel like they're just going to be in the plane because the role players, whatever. And I'm just like the calves did just make the Eastern Conference finals. They did. It wasn't the best version of themselves in the Eastern Conference finals because the mix just kind of blitzed them. So I understand some of that, but like they're really good. And when you zoom out with that playoff run in particular, I think you can very much argue that Evan Mobile was just their most impactful guy in their playoff run. And I don't know if that gets enough attention. And when it does, it feels like that is brought over within the lens of, well, that's because Donovan Mitchell didn't do what he was supposed to do. Or that's because James Harton did the playoff thing again. It's like Evan Mobile is really good. I think because he didn't make the Capitol L leap last year, some of the subtle growth that he did make last year when under the radar, like I did feel like he was a better passer. I did feel like he dealt with contact on drives a little bit more. He was more intentional about hitting first on some of the post touch. and on some of the drives in particular, very quietly converted to career hostage, 63% of his twos. And he was at 63% of his twos during the playoffs as well. And he's been in all defense candidate, if not a deep void winner, since he has stepped into the NBA. And so four calves team that I still think at the very least should turn out regular season wins. If we do actually get another creation lead from Evan Motley, or there's just more play strength in general, which unlocks more lines with him at the five, and which means he gets to build more pick and roll chemistry with James Harden, and that looked really good during the rank of season last year. The calves should be in the mix to come out of the East. Like, I don't think that is an egregious take to have. And so for me, I'm watching, once again, on what level of growth we see from Evan Motley, on top of him being really good on both ends of the floor already. - I was gonna ask you what specifically is the source of intrigue. Like, what are you watching from him? We're like, I wanna see what's different this year. You mentioned more pick and rolls with Harden, maybe with him at center. You mentioned his passing. And yeah, he had a small uptick and assist last year, and then an even bigger one in the playoffs. His three point shot kind of disappeared, 29% on three a game. Obviously, that would be helpful. It feels like we've been saying that for four years. Part of my, as you may have heard, I don't trust the Cleveland Cavaliers, what I'm picking teams to come out of the East. I don't trust James Harden in big games. And I just feel like, I don't know how you feel about this. I thought the Payton Watson trade was a very good move for them, and the kind of move that they should be doing, and the player profile that they've been searching for. I do think like the first 30 games of Watson, Motley, Allen is gonna be a little clunky, and there's gonna be a lot of learning curve to like, all right, he's in the corner. Teams aren't guarding him even though he shot very well in the corner. If he does that again, teams will guard him. Not like the most intuitive catch and go playmaker, but can do it. The guards both dribble a lot. It just feels like it's gonna be a little clunky on offense, and they have this lever to hit off the bench of going small with Watson at the four. You throw in Tyson for one of the big. You throw in Sam Merrill, both of them, whatever. I just feel like the Cavs are gonna, are going to have to search a little bit for what is our optimal rotation? What is our optimal five-man lineup to close games with all the stuff other teams all have to do too? I just, I feel like it's gonna be a little clunky for them. I don't know how you think about that. - I don't think it's unfair. I think, 'cause I think a big picture of course, now that I had for Cleveland, and we had talked about this when we had to chase down guys on our podcast. Kenny Atkinson pressed a lot of buttons last year in terms of how he wanted the offense to function, different lines he wanted to press. And I think there is in general a thin line between experimentation and doing so to the point where you don't really know what your bread is. - Like what I just pressed all the buttons on the joystick hoping that my outfielder throws to the right base or my guy steals home or something. Just matching the buttons. - Yeah, it felt like a little bit of that in some key moments. And so I do think broader strokes, who does Cleveland want to be? I think that's a fair question to ask. And within the clunkiness that you expressed, like it wouldn't surprise me if that is the case. I do think if you lean into more of ever-mobly high-post creator, and they've already done that before and this time in Cleveland, you can alleviate some of those concerns. Like I don't think James Hart and Donald Mitchell have to dribble as much if you are utilizing mobility in that way. It's something that I've cited a few times during the summer at this point with ever-mobly. One of my favorite stats of last season is I think among a little under 200 guys that ran at least 200 picking roles last year. Nobody generated more points for possession in the first second spectrum than ever-mobly did when he was the ball-handler. - As the ball-handler. And so I think he was the only guy over 1.2, which, again, 200 compared to like, Luke was running 1,000, et cetera. But it's like, some of that is still in there. When you pair that with the growth that I think he displayed as a driver and as a foul-drawer, which quick aside, the free-throw shooting has to perk back up for him 'cause that was just weird for him last year. - 60% last year after two straight years over 70. - Yeah. - So like that is in theory, low-hanging fruit for him to grab. So if you average just 20, that might be a part or why. But like I just think you can use him as a playmaker to kind of balance things out within the offense, takes a pressure off a Mitchell, takes a pressure off a harden, unlocks some of the cutting and relocation from Peyton Watson on top of that. And with this growth as a self-creator, you can get into different looks offensively. And I think the defense is just gonna be there for him. Like he is just one of the best defenders on the planet. And so my entry lies with like, what the overall use of him is gonna be or what the split is going to be. 'Cause I have an idea of what actions he's going to be used into is just how much of each one. But I think you nailed the right balance. It makes life easier for everyone. He becomes more impactful and Cleveland should be right there in terms of the upper echelon to use the confidence. - I mean, the numbers every year with Moby and Allen together are unbelievable and defensively your infrastructure is so sound with those two. And yet I'm still like not 100% convinced that that's a 25 minute a game line up in the playoffs against great defenses unless something about how they play changes. And maybe that's exactly what you're saying, just using your tools differently. Because it just felt like offense was just too hard for them last year. So this is, I'm struggling internally with this myself. Like it just so you have James Harden and Donovan Mitchell and two big guys who have made all star teams before. You've got shooters, you've got lots of this stuff. They just felt like it was so hard for them to generate really good shots. And politically perhaps that's not the case. But just a lot of dribbling like Donovan's passing kind of leveled down a little bit in the postseason. I think that's less about him and just more about the ecosystem not being quite right. And then when I'm saying struggling internally, I'm saying Toronto halacious defense, Detroit halacious defense help both in both cases by the referees allowing more physicality in the playoffs. And the next just on the greatest magic carpet ride in the history of basketball even on both ends of the floor. So maybe, maybe my biases or whatever are over indexing on like blaming the calves and under indexing on like maybe it was just a suboptimal set of circumstances for them offensively. But it they just feel a little more uncertain than I'd like them to be. Even as you know, they did make the conference finals. And I sit here and I always say, well, those little very uninspiring conference finals run. And again, on the surface, it was like two game sevens against the raptors who were missing Brandon Ingram. And I don't like you can sit here and say the raptors are better without Brandon Ingram and help them. Like at some point, you need a requisite amount of scoring on your team to win a playoff series. And not having quickly like objectively did hurt them, even though he would have been hunted a little bit on defense. And then they won game seven in Detroit on the road, like emphatically, that was a really a great win. And, you know, I don't know. I don't know how to feel about the calves. This is, I just don't trust them. I don't trust them. I don't trust them. And I'm never going to trust them. OK, that's it for me. OK. You want me to make my pick or any other thoughts on the calves? I bet we can flip you. I'm curious to hear who you have. Well, you know, it's not just because you're here as the president of the Southeast Division. By the way, I think every division, like I think every division, like the conferences and the NCAA should have like a fake president, like who doesn't really do anything with that? The conference presidents. You say you would be my nominee for the president of that. And you would just have to just give speeches, everyone, so how great the Southeast Division is and create fake rivalries where whoever wins the season series between the Hornets and the Heat gets like a trophy of some kind and all that. My most intriguing player for the upcoming NBA season is brought to you by State Farm. I think to me, this is a no-brainer. My most intriguing player for the season is Brandon Miller in Charlotte. Currently up for an extension, I think they will probably get. I would bet-- if I had to bet, I would bet I'm getting something done before the season. Obviously, he's missed a lot of time with various injuries, shoulder stuff last year. The off season was, you know, he had to take some time to keep recovering from that. He's a real eye of the beholder player. Pessimists would see, I think, a Brandon Ingram 2.0 where the numbers and the physical profile look great. And it just doesn't translate into enough actual impactful winning stuff for whatever reason. Optimists would see, I think, a quicker, more live player than Brandon Ingram, a more alert defender than Brandon Ingram. Someone who has more potential on that end, if he stays healthy. And the hornets have clearly, like, look, the LeMelo Ball trade was a lot of different things. It was a bet against LeMelo Ball. It was a slight hedge against, like, we don't really think what we were last year was 100% real in a world in which a third of the league was tanking. And we yet again didn't get out of the play in tournament. It was a link to that, a bet on if we keep acquiring assets and assets and assets, we're going to be the most nimble team in the league and already have a couple really important foundational players in Brandon Miller and Conn Canippell. And at the end of the day, it's also a big bet that both of those guys are actually foundational players, that they can be stars in their own right. And I think they're right about Brandon Miller. I would consider myself a Brandon Miller optimist. I know the health issues have been there. I know he doesn't get to the rim, perhaps, as much as you would like. A guy who has the ball as much as he does. as he had to get there. His passing numbers are kind of met. And if you look at the tracking data, he has one of the lowest assists rates out of like all the hundreds of players who ran some requisite number of pick and rolls. There's that. I think defensively he's been just okay. A little bit falprone when he gets tired. I just look at him. I think the package is there. And I look at all the different ways he can score should be playoff ready ways to score like he can get to that that Chris Paul snaking mid-ranger anytime he wants on the pick and roll except he's six eight and Chris Paul is six foot flat. And I think he's going to learn on a lot of those plays where they end up in mid-range shots or just he picks up his dribble and kicks it out. He's like one dribble away on the pick and roll from having that retreating big man in a real bad position. He's one dribble away from drawing a foul at the rim. He's one dribble away from creating a lob or a pocket pass to his big man. And I think he has the right intentions and he's going to see that and you see flashes of all of that stuff the right pass the hesitation dribble and drive to the rim. Yeah, he's not like the most explosive first step athlete vertical athlete when he gets a runway he is and he's very crafty and his change of pace his crossover dribble his hesitation moves those kind of things like make you effectively faster and more explosive than you actually are in a raw way. And I see absolutely no reason why he should not be a plus defensive player. He can get skinny around screens. He's big. I think his activity level needs to get a little better. But if I were betting I would bet on Brandon Miller and I but I'm interested to hear what you think of the Ingram comparison and sort of I'm more optimistic about Brandon Miller than that. I have no idea where you fall on him. No, like one as a Southeast enthusiast I appreciate you bringing Brandon Miller to the table first and foremost. But no, in all seriousness the Brandon Ingram comp is interesting to me like my immediate thought as you're going into it is like well, Brandon Miller already and maybe this is just a product of when he entered the league. He is already more willing to take threes and take threes off the bounce that Brandon takes. 36% on pull up threes last year. And he takes like 10 not pull ups 10 almost like 10 total threes per 36 minutes. That's difference number one. Yeah. And so like him being if you're going to be pull up heavy as a wing for me at least aesthetically. I want a larger diet of that to be behind the arc. So the fact that he's willing to do it already just kind of gives him a leg up for me when it comes to the Brandon Ingram comparison. But like inside the arc, I think my biggest question for him now in moving forward is just what level of force is he going to play with? And I think you already kind of alluded to it because I do think you see these possessions to where like he'll snake take the extra dribble and kind of play through some context like it's in there. And as you mentioned when he does have a runway like he has some incredible ducks. But I think in general he's going to have to be more intentional about how he navigates type quarters. The fact that he already kind of has to snake and keep the fender in jail can operate and get into pull ups is encouraging that that gives him a foundation to build on. Let me take that extra dribble snake back the other way and get into some of these scoops like you see some of those on the film. The finishing isn't always there. But like the fact that it's kind of in the wheelhouse for him at the very least it gives us something to build off of. So I'm fascinated to see like how quickly he can grow in that because if he does more free throws should come. He again already has a three point thing. And like I'm glad you brought up the playmaking portion because like I was looking at a lot of the same numbers. You look through some of the pick and rolls or you look through some of the handoff reads for him. It's just like here's a pass that you wouldn't expect them to be able to make. Here's a live dribble skip that just kind of comes at random winters. It's there sometimes. Yes. Like it's nine regular like early pickups and then swing to the wing or something. And then it's just live dribble skip. It's like obviously it's basketball. You can't just say, Hey, just do that over and over and over again. If you would, he would be Luca don't just set a brand of Miller. But it's just like if that's there, can you do that three times a game instead of once then have to be 10. And so I'm intrigued by that portion. And like looking at some of his picking rolls where he was getting two on the ball. Like one, it wasn't something that he saw super often and with Lamello out of the building now. I am fascinated to see how often he gets that coverage. And then when he does get it, how does he handle it? Because like one of the things that popped from me and I had my notes is like, these are some good place, some well placed passes. He is super retreat heavy. But he's the second offender. He is backing up five six feet. He said he's at half court and it's hard to make the first pass quickly when you're going backwards like that. That's one of the things that stuck out for me when he's blitzed. It's pretty hit or miss. And I want him to get off the ball faster. But like you said, part of that is an experience thing. And the Lamello void. I mean, obviously Kobe White is a very good player. He will see how that works. I think it'll be fine. Nas Reed is a spacing for that. I'll open up the floor more than it was last year. When Miller and Kiniple played without Lamello last year, they were like minus 10 per hundred possessions now. When you throw Kobe White in, it was very limited, minute like very limited, but it looked good. So I'm just like the burden on him is going to be different. He and Kiniple are both when they're healthy. Khan's already heard too. Hornets have like a bunch of injuries already. They're they're going to have to do a little bit more of the heavy lifting on the ball. And like all of that make like I think I don't think the Hornets are a playoff team this year. I think they will take a tiny step back. That's totally fine. That was built into the Lamello trade. I just think they're a super intriguing team for tons of different reasons. Brandon Miller being the very top one. No, I think that is more than fair. And I think as I'm thinking about Charlotte structurally because they led the league and like guard screens by a very wide margin. And when you have Lamello, you can do that as he can initiate and he can also be part of those ghosts. I do wonder what that is going to look like when it is Brandon Miller said you're saying those ghost screens, those brush screens for Kobe White instead of Lamello are those just going to be switches. And just in general, how often will Charlotte see switches and what does that look like? That's where some of the flashes of. And I think we talked about this on the darkest spot. No, you talked about it last year when the sharp corners were on their run. Like Brandon Miller taking some of these switches to see somebody small and like actively going at these guys in a way that we weren't accustomed to earlier in his career. And it's like, okay, this is positive progress. Continue to do that. Continue to stack those reps. But like it's in there to play with a little more force. Now, I think a good guy. I was going to say the next step on some of those Mitch Bass 180 dead last year was can we turn some of these jumpers over the outstretched arms of a small defender into free throws. I think it's in there. Play strength has to increase handle has to get a little bit tighter. And again, the mentality to get deeper into the pain has to be there. But like the seeds are there. So like I certainly understand why the entry level is high with Brandon Miller, especially when you tie that into Lamello trade plus Miller being extension eligible right now. Like I think he's, if he's not already better than Brandon Ingram, I think he will be soon. I would take him over Brandon from now, frankly, but I think Brandon Ingram is fine. That's not a shot for everything. He's okay. I think the upside comparison and the guy I see a little bit when I watch him. And I'm not saying he's going to be as good as this player because very few people are. But could he be 90% of Jason Tatum, 90, like the big apex wing who's like maybe not the best passer in the world, but has a great mid range jumper, scores in a lot of different ways, can spray it out, can defend, like just sort of a jack of all trades at that size who can shoot threes off the dribble, get to his mid range or whatever. Like could he be that is that? I don't know, it's just a guy that I see. I don't, I don't, again, like he's not going to be, I, you should never bet on anyone being as good as a guy who makes first team all NBA every year that he's healthy. But I think Brandon Miller will make an all NBA team sooner rather than later. I would bet on him. He is my number one most intriguing player for the season. Nakai is dunking. What's your dunker spot schedule with Steve this week? What do we got? Oh, we it is. We're in the middle on the NBA side. We're in the middle of the vision previews. So we are doing the Pacific division on Friday. So if you are a fan of either the LA teams, the Warriors, et cetera, we are going to be digging in. And then on the W side, we are just deep and playoff prep. Again, I'm flying out or flying back to Vegas later today to see if the Aces extend their season. So it's just going to be a mixture of the vision previews and W playoff content over at the dunker spot basketball. It's a great pod. Steve's the best. You're the best. Nakai is thank you. And speaking of the words, we're going to bring on Nick Friedel to talk old and state Warriors. All right. Nick Friedel is here. He's wearing a Cubs hat to remind me about Pete Crowe. I'm strong. That is noted and not appreciated. Here's what we're going to do. I haven't talked too much about two of the sort of stariest franchises in the league. The Lakers and the Warriors, the California franchises. One, I think the Lakers are just going to be good and really good and not as good as the Thunder and the Spurs, where we're going to have Dan Wikey next week to do a Lakers deep dive. And the Warriors, the Golden State Warriors, kind of just over here to the side, not forgotten because Steph Curry's there and there's some Linda Borg buzz and Pajemski's extension eligible and they still have all their picks and like, Dremon's going to do stuff and Jimmy Butler might come back. But just it feels a little depressing, Nick Friedel. They're over under his down to 36 and a half. Jimmy Butler is going to miss a large part of the season, half of it. I don't know, something like that. Porzingis is gone. I don't know what's going on with him. Al Hufford is very old and will miss a lot of games. Steph Curry missed a lot of games last year. He's old. Moses Moody is out for the season. They're they're always going to be fun because Steph is a show when he plays. The system is a show when he plays. Dremon and Steph have the chemistry that will never die. Linda Borg looks like a perfect fit. I like Pajemski, despite the fact there's been some sort of up and down. with him. I like Brandon Williams adding a little speed off the bench like there's stuff here, but man I can't I can't like get into this team. Can you can you tell me like what's what's happening? It is always good to see your buddy and what I would tell you what's happening with this group is they are the most interesting trade deadline team there is. If we could hit the fast forward button and go to the beginning of February that's when it gets really fascinating because I'm with you on all the things you outlined there they're not great they could be okay but so much of that is contingent on Steph being out there for a lot of games. I'm not sure at this stage with that knee if that's possible but the real question to me is what happens at the deadline? Is Jimmy back? What does he look like? Are they potentially going to move him? Are they going to potentially move Dremon when the time comes? That Porzingis deal could be used in something when nobody knows what the hell is exactly going on with his health situation so they have a lot of major major decisions to make but they've got to make them heading into February right now they look like a middle of the road team but the Steph spotlight still shines so brightly that you can't look away completely because when he is out there and he's okay health wise he's still awesome. He's amazing he's a force unlike any other in the league. I love Landaborg. I know Anthony Slater your colleague covering the Warriors for ESPN talked about how it was Buries or Landaborg for them and then the Bucks made that decision for them basically. He's 24 years old. How many times are we going to hear repeated that he's older than John I think coming up many many times. He's a perfect fit with the Warriors. He looks he looked awesome in Summer League. He shot the three well. He shot the three okay in college pretty well last year too. He looks just like an absolute seamless fit in the Steph Dremon Steve Kerr flow offense. He's set in back screens. He's running two man inverted picket rolls with stamp. He's running two man without a wharfer. He's cutting to the right spaces hitting his shots. He can defend pretty much anybody. I think his sort of attention to detail on defense needs to improve a little bit but he's a rookie. He stands pretty upright off like those reads off the ball are we switching or we're not switching those are tough. I think they've got a gem in him. I just don't really know like I just I guess I can't I just unless if you were told me that the Warriors got a gem of a rookie who I think will make an all rookie team for sure. I would be more excited than this I would think but I'm just not I'm not that excited. I got to say Nick like it seemed like a scorcher when I said it last week and I don't think it's a scorcher at all. I think the Warriors are very much at risk of missing the play in tournament not the playoffs the play in tournament. I think there's a tenth best team in the West and one of those teams behind him Memphis or Dallas is going to exceed expectations and I just don't really like this team and if Steph misses 30 games and those 30 games overlap with Jimmy being out it's going to be like kind of a nightmare. Yeah they are going to make it and exact to your point. I like Jax a lot. He fits very very well the only question I have is defensively is he going to be there every single night because all anybody says who's been around him since summer league when he won the MVP is the guy is huge. He fits all over the floor but there are times you watch him in summer league and at least early in the preseason you're like all right well he can shoot the hell out of the ball but is he going to bring that intensity that they want every night on the defensive end that remains to be seen but to the larger point about where they are as an organization if you're banking on the Warriors being pretty good this year potentially a fringe playoff team you're banking on basically two guys not named Steph and they're a yaxle being in the running potentially for the rookie of the year if he's as good on both sides I'm not going I'm not going there but you know what we'll say but he's got to get to a point where you trust him every single night and Zach he's got a play and he's got to play well they don't have a lot of other options but the other point and it's crucial in any Warriors conversation they have to have pods be a little bit better and if you believe that the Warriors can get to a better place than they were at last year pods has to take that proverbial next step now I would tell you haven't just been out in Hawaii for a week for training camp with him pods looks awesome you talk to any one of those players the coaches they say he's been working on his game he's in better shape he looks more confident he's the one that's been telling you Axel you got to be aggressive with Steph on the floor because he needs you to shoot it and take pressure off of all the defenses laying into him but that's really the issue with this Warriors team everybody's been through it the core is so old that if you believe that they can be better what you're believing is the Yaxel and pods are the guys to help you do it if Steph can stay upright so a lot of ifs there but I can tell you at least in the short returns of the last couple weeks of training camp Yaxel they love him that Kerr wants him to be more aggressive he thinks he's a little too passive especially with Steph but that will come with time as a rookie in pods he wants that new deal he looks motivated to be the guy that he's always thought of himself to be the question is can his game follow that up this season I like pods first of all pods is definitely in the top five of most jarring hair transformations of the offseason like I was like wait what what's happening the curls are gone and it just I think he looks a little tougher I think it's working for him I like pods I think he's like a solid fourth to fifth starter or depending on team context six man kind of guy I mean 14, five and four on decent shooting last year he's a solid defender he takes a million charges not a great defender but he's pretty good I think that's a good player I he hasn't he hasn't been helped by Joe lakeups comments about him and he hasn't helped himself with some of his comments about himself and that that has contributed I think to outsized expectations among fans it is a good player you mentioned he's extension eligible I'd be curious what you're hearing about that I have noted before that his cap hold is 17 million dollars the warriors are clearly a team that wants to be in a position at least to potentially use cap space next summer for one last run or one more run at a at a big time addition or two next to staff and so I've said I I would bet on an extension with Pajemski happening but right around that cap hold number so that it doesn't really hurt their space at all but I honestly like I we're getting towards the deadline hasn't happened yet what are you hearing it has always felt like it would get done exactly what I've been doing this way too long when you see both player and team say hey we want to get this done way more often than not especially before these deadlines it usually happens pods likes being out here don't leave you incur really like him you figure that the number is somewhere in there it always felt like it would be somewhere around 20 to me maybe a little more depending on the market but he seems comfortable out here and it currently seems to trust him and that trust is only going to grow so I'd be surprised if you and I are talking a couple weeks from now and it's not done the real question to me though is if you're the warriors and your pain pods and you've paid steps and now you have yaksal again this ties back into well what happens after that and that's what nobody seems to have a clear cut answer on and they're kind of waiting to see how this plays out for context Jimmy is still months away he was in Hawaii but you know he's not able to do all that much although he kept reinforcing I can dunk if I need to okay great but he's 37 years old coming off a major major knee injury and he keeps saying he wants to stay with the warriors but in order to do so he's not going to be anywhere near another max extension Dremont is a 27 million this year he's not going to be anywhere near that if he ends up wanting to stay so there are a lot of major question marks in the future but if you get the pods deal done and you still like the way yaksal looks a few months from now those are the two core pieces with Steph everybody else is kind of up in the air but specific to pods I think that there is enough push on both sides to make it happen before the deadline um I would be if you told me Jimmy by the words on the active roster for half their games this year I think they would I would sign up for that if I were a Warriors fan not not playing half the games because he's obviously not going to play back to backs and all that but that would in my mind on ballparking like January 1 or something like that uh for Jimmy which is a lot of this season it's half the season almost um you mentioned the expirings Jimmy and Dremont Porzingis has only three million guaranteed on a player option next year I feel like they're going to keep his contract on the books for for trade purposes at least through the season and then decide the cap space thing is super interesting because it might it might impact how they approach this season. Like what remember what were they with when Jimmy first came, weren't they like 24 and seven with him and stepping on it was like some crazy record, right? Yeah, I mean, they had Steph from the outside and Jimmy would get to the foul line and provide a completely different look. I mean, they fit from a basketball perspective. No question neither one of them can stay healthy. So I could, you know, the cap space weapon for them can be used in the offseason, potentially in a lot of different ways. It can be used just to sign free agents. It can be used to make lopsided trades where you take in more salary than you send out or then you normally be allowed to take in because you have the cap space to do it. And everyone's like fixated on how they control all their draft picks, but one and even that one is top 20 protected. It can be amended. I just wonder if like I think they're going to be in the kind of position where we get to February, whatever the trade deadline is. I think they're going to be right around the sweet spot where the new lottery system really helps them. And like I, I just wonder if that team that was 23 and seven or whatever it was. If that team is just gone, I would bet on it being largely gone because of health and age. And if there is any move, like if it's even worth it to bundle up a bunch of picks to salvage whatever the remains of that team is, if I could wait until the offseason, when I have a lot more options to either use those same picks in a different way, use cap space, whatever. Like I don't, I don't necessarily think it's like a lock that they make a big trade at the trade deadline because I just think they're going to look at the standings and be like, Oh, wow, we're in the 321 potentially of the 321 lottery system. And like we could use a building block or two for sure. I'm with you, but what I would tell you is having watched this team closely over the last year, that that draft take if it lands in the right spot, that's great. This team, if we're being real, Zach is badly in need of hitting the button. No, they're just, they're not good enough. And to your point about, all right, we'll throw all these contracts in and we'll make one big move, potentially the deadline signs somebody in the summer. They're still not good enough. They are trying to do right by step, but steps 38 years old with a knee problem. I mean, I'll give you some anecdotal evidence here. We're in a while. We're in that preseason game. They're playing the clippers. He comes to the bench for the first time in the first quarter immediately. He puts the heating pad on the knee. And I went, Oh, no, because this is going to be like that all year long. He knows it. The training staff knows it. They still want to be competitive around staff. Joe Lakeb is the owner. He wants to win, et cetera, et cetera. This team, though, as they're constructed, isn't close enough if they bring in that one mythical major piece to get back to where they've been. So what if it were me and I were Mike Dunl even, I'm watching all this unfold. I'm saying, All right, we want to keep stuff. He fills the building. He is the franchise. But every single other person, let's talk. I mean, they really like Jackson, and they really like pods. I wouldn't stop it. Either one of those guys from moving out. If you got the right pieces back in place, but that's the issue that they face in that they're not bad enough to to tank all the way out of it. And they're not good enough to get back to the level that we're used to seeing. And my point to you, as we sit here before the season is, of course, getting that top to one or two or three pick would be fantastic. That piece isn't going to put them into a better place either. So they are really just stuck in kind of no man's land. And the reality is that I don't see a move that's going to take them out of the situation that they're in. So if you're done leaving, I guess the best play is you keep the young guys with stuff and you get everybody else out. And you see what happens a year from now and keep building from that point. I mean, that pick, it made up with them in a better position to win today, next year, whatever. But it definitely puts them in a better position, post step, which is what they really should be aiming at. Now, if they are still aiming at, and they should be to trying to thread the needle of like doing right by step, I just keep thinking of like, well, who's even the guy? Like, who are they trading for? And there's some possibilities like the season will go haywire in a bunch of different places. There's also the possibility of like, hey, maybe there's a guy on an expiring whose trade value declines to the point that it doesn't cost us very much. It costs us one protected future first round pick or so like that. Like, what if the nets decide Michael Porter Jr. is just not a part of our future? Anthony Davis, I've never really sensed the warriors are like super into that idea, but like, that's a name. But like, like, like, there will be a guy like that who's like, yes, guy helps us. And it's the cost isn't that much. In terms of like the guy like, I just don't know who the guy that I'm bundling a lot of stuff to go get because it's got to be somebody younger on the like young prime age timetable. Like, Kauai is gone. He's on the raptors now. Paul George, all these old guys that they've snipped around, it can't be somebody like that. Mark and ends locked up. Like, someone through Devon Booker to me is a hypothetical. I just don't see Phoenix even entertaining anything with that right now. And the contract is huge. And I don't I think Phoenix wants to see what they have. There's nothing going on to be clear in any point with Devon Booker. I would look at a guy like if Orlando has a bad season, do I get a do I try and get a mulligan on the Franz Wagner pick? Like, that's a guy I might throw a bunch of draft picks at because it's somebody of that ilk or timetable or age or whatever. But I just don't know like who if you if you are dreaming of this big superstar trade, I just don't know really who it is. And by the way, as I'm saying this, that's fine. Like, I think their best move might just be kind of ride it out into the offseason, keep all the picks, keep all the assets and see what comes in man drink, because I think this season is kind of DLA to be honest with you. I couldn't agree with you more on that point. And I would tell you that I think the problem the warriors are going to face is, yeah, they want to do right by step. And as if he's healthy, it changes the dynamic certainly, but there's not that guy. You want to throw every pick you got or or a lot of picks and I mean, it's over. Yeah, I mean, Franz Wagner. Franz Wagner is not going to get you from wherever the hell the warriors are to where we're used to seeing. And then they'll say, all right, well, we just want to have a chance in the postseason. Franz Wagner is not at the type of difference maker on that kind of deal that's going to take you to a completely different place. The fan base is more pissed off than I can ever remember it being, because they were so mad that there weren't a lot of moves in the offseason. And they're watching all these other teams improve. And the warriors are sitting there going, you know, we don't want to give up the picks. We don't see that kind of guy that we're trying to describe here being available. And that's where I think there are going to be big questions as the season keeps going, because I think this is a team that's going to hover somewhere around 500, maybe a few games below most of the year waiting for Jimmy and whatever happens. But Zach, I cannot stress this enough. Again, it's sort of season. If I were the warriors, I would ride this thing out just like they're trying to do right now. Because if you put all your picks into whether it's Wagner or Anthony Davis or you know, throw a fill in the blank, I've heard Devin Booker too just as a name getting tossed out. Put Devin Booker on this team. Give up all your picks. How much better are you? You're a better team, but you're not closer to some kind of extra bonus title at the end of the step run. So I would do exactly what they did in the summer. And I would just close my ears to every criticism that's out there. And the fan base doesn't want to hear that. They want to see action. They want to see Steph have one more legit run. I don't see it. I think that the warriors are entering into that phase of what we saw with Kobe at the end of the Lakers time. Now they're not that bad, but it's, hey, Steph out there. Okay, this is a good night. Something truly pretty cool could still happen. But this team is used to winning titles and competing at the top and the way they're structured and the way the money is and what other assets are happening as Steph gets closer to retirement. I think the best path is to be as cautious as possible right now. Well, and also just like whether it's Booker or anybody else that has a huge salary for next season, you're taking away all or a lot of the cap space like the dream would be add a player and still be able to add more players. And that's, I don't know, man, I just, I wish I had more reasons to be optimistic about this team, but I wanted to take a look at them because I like Landaborg a lot. And I think the pods deal should get done. And they're just always interesting as long as Steph is flying around, there will be nights, there will be nights like that Clippers playing game where the old lion roars again, where it's It's like Steph Dreymon, Handoff, Steph Dreymon, Wink, Wink, flip to screen. And like it looks like it's 2015 again. There will be nights, there will be moments like that, but it's, they're becoming increasingly surrounded by the creep of mortality. Nick Friedal, I'm sorry your Cubs didn't make it out of the first round, but they did better than the meds this year. It's always great to see you. - Thanks for PCA, my man. And it is always good to be with you. And I'd end on this and we're both saying it, but it's true when I was reminded of it being out there for a while over the last week. If you're lucky enough to see it, still get a chance to go watch Steph and he is healthy, go take it, because he still is that great. And he can still make the crowd go whoa, you know, because you're just not used to seeing somebody like him. Sadly, I don't know if his knee is gonna be able to hold up anywhere close to where he would want it to be, but when he is out there, wherever you're at, if you're lucky enough to go get a ticket and see him, you need to, because it's still a pretty cool and exciting atmosphere every time he lines up to go play. - No joke, and man, on point, Nick Friedal for the athletic, I'll see you soon, bud. - You got it. - Look who it is. Tyrese Howell-Barton, last scene on a basketball court a long time ago, until last night in Ames-I, where we went to college, you made your return from Achilles injury surgery. How are you doing? How did it feel to be back with your team in a true, true on-court fashion? - Yeah, it was, first appreciate you having me. It was excited. It was a lot of fun for me to get back on the floor. You know, I think a preseason can kind of be like the dog days a little bit, where people like, as my career went on, I'm like the preseason, I can't just get this done with. But then I was excited to be back in Iowa State. I think that was the most important thing. Be back at, you know, where I went to college and very special place to me. And then just to be back on the floor was a lot of fun. I feel like I, you know, you don't get that experience with practice or pick up, like that's just completely different. And I had a lot of fun with it. And I feel like I learned a lot. It's good to get film on tape, you know, no matter what, good, bad. And, you know, part of the journey of having a lot to learn. - Is your post-scheme, like physical routine, treatment routine, is it different now than it was before the injury? Like, what do you have to do if anything that's new? - Yeah, I wouldn't say it's anything completely like super different. I've always been, I mean, I had a lot of good vets, Harrison Barnes and, you know, Tristan Thompson and Cory Joseph and guys like that and who in Buddy Heal do, you know, plays every game, right? Like these guys who take care of themselves. So I've always, every time I'm looking here, I've been pretty good about that of getting massages, getting the tubs, doing all those things. So post-game is pretty much the same. Pre-game, there's a little more that goes into my lift and my movement session of getting my body ready than there typically has been. But for the most part, it's pretty much the same thing. How do you feel? How does your leg feel day after a real NBA game? - Yeah, honestly good. You know, I haven't really dealt with any problems, really at all with my legs since having surgery. You know, a little soreness here and there, but I feel good. I think yesterday was more about getting my wind. Like even when you play in every year I've played that those first like four minutes before that immediate time out are always like, oh my God, but yesterday I was like, I am dying and, you know, like we play fast, but obviously Minnesota is paying much faster with the mellow at point. So, you know, the game was going fast. I think for everybody because it wasn't just me second wind. So it made me feel better than there were more people tired than just me. - All right, so fatigue is one thing. I watched the game, half the game. I thought you looked like Tyree's however, and I thought you were changing directions pretty well, moving off the ball, like the ball was popping. But like for you, what did you feel like is in terms of basketball, what are you furthest behind prime peak Tyree's Haloper? Like is there a movement, is there a skill, is there a part of your game? It's like, all right, that felt good. This I got a ways to go. - Yeah, I would just say, re-adjusting to the speed of the game of live action stuff. I talked to Jason for a good while last night about it. Like he said when he came back, it's like the game is going fast and there's really no way to replicate it. Like pick up and practice. He doesn't really do it for us. And for me, I'm a, I don't think I'm a pretty fast processor. You know, like and early in my career, I used to say sometimes like, man, the game is moving fast. You know, I'll rookie say that. Like the game's moving fast and once it's slowed down, everything opened up for me. Well, obviously the game is slowed down for me for a long time and yesterday was the first time in a while that I felt like who I'm moving kind of fast. So that's gonna be the biggest adjustments for me. Just having to like slow back down, especially with Zoo too. Like I think the, from the most like tactical standpoint to talk about it, like Zoo is by far the best screener I've ever played with. He is a guy who hits people. He enjoys it and he is great at it. That's why he's had such a great career. And I'm used to playing with obviously Miles, who's a guy who's like an early out guy, a popper. And with Zoo, because I was playing so fast, I kept coming off so open, but looking down at my feet and seeing I'm one step in front of the three point line. And it's like, do I just shoot five horrible long two, or do I try to just play the right way for now, make the safe reads and do all those things. And as time goes on and I start to slow down, get my feet right where I can just shoot the three off to pick and roll or work to get downhill. I had a couple of times I came off and picked a ball up and like that step in front of the three point line. So that's gonna be the biggest adjustment. - Yeah, I feel like it'll come with time. Now that I know that, I'm seeing film for it. Like it's some I'll prepare for. - So I've been covering the NBA full time for 15, 16 years now. Your playoff run two years ago, one of the coolest things I've ever been around. I was at the next game one. I was at all the Eastern Conference Finals games, all the finals games, all the shots, all that. So this is my long-winded way of saying like, is game seven something you could ever get over? Have you just not think about it? Like what is the process of, obviously there's the immediate trauma, there's the halftime locker room, there's the tears afterwards around TV and all that. But like a year and change later, like is there a point where is there something you have to do to like close the book on that or is it just not something that can work like that? - Yeah, I don't think it's something like more like that. I think the book will forever be open. You know, and I feel like it's not just me, but like anybody who goes to like a traumatic life experience, it's really hard to move on from. And for me, I've said many times like, I was at the peak of the game, you know, feeling the best I've ever felt. And from a, from a basketball standpoint, that whole run, but let alone just that night, where I was, I was feeling so good. And so it's something that will be hard for me to get over. And we know what, I talked to other guys who have lost in the finals. Obviously different experiences. But I've talked to guys who have like, Jason who lost the finals, went on to win the finals and he's like, I think a lot about that Golden State series. And so I think about a lot 'cause I wish I had that one too. And he's like, I'd never stopped thinking about it. I'm the same boat I just got hurt, you know what I mean? But I mean, that same boat where at the end day, to me, obviously, it's seven-game series. And I got hurt in that game and that's the game. They won't talk about what we could have won. But like, I think a lot more about game four. - Oh, we're gonna talk about that, don't worry. - We're winning going into the fourth. Like, that's been the hardest game for me. So like, I haven't really rewatched much of the finals to be honest. Like, what's been put in front of you on social media or, you know, if it's on TV or whatever, you're watching the run, whatever. But the game four game is somewhat, I think about a lot more than in game seven. - Do you let yourself believe, or maybe do you just flat out believe, we were gonna win the championship? - Yeah, of course, of course, I believe that. I'm a competitor. I wouldn't want to play any of those games that I didn't believe we were gonna win. And I think some that everybody saw with our group is, I don't think anybody could watch our playoff run and say, hey, these guys conceded at any point in any game. They just believe that they were gonna lose. So let alone that game. Like, we were winning a half. We played a good game from top to bottom as a group. We were just, I feel like, about my out there things changed. So, yeah, I mean, of course, I view it that way and I'll always view it that way, nothing anybody could say. Any social media backlash from these comments? Nothing could change my mind. I don't care. But we gotta move on. Like, I'm gonna have more years of my career to hopefully chase that dream again. So, you know, we'll get that opportunity again. I am a strong believer that everything happens for a reason. And, you know, I am more than ready for what's the come next. - It's not funny. It is funny you mentioned game four because when we got word, you were gonna do the pot. I was like, I should, you know, looking back at the playoff run. I mean, I'm at the choke sign game. I'm at a bunch of the games. It's like, I wanna go back and rewatch the fourth quarter or the second half of game four because I remember being at the game. And in my, so one of the reasons I rewatch it is like, in my head, you guys were ahead by more in the fourth quarter in game four than you actually were. But it felt viscerally, I mean, I remember vividly sitting there thinking they're fucking going to do it like they're going to be up three one And this is going to be a rap and you're up by four I think with like two and a half two fifty and change And then just like a bunch of stuff happens It's only crazy that happens other than a couple off-ball fouls But what I that was the game it's funny you zero and on because that's the one I zero in on is like that's one the series to me What do you what what what sticks in your crawl about that again? I don't know if you have a specific thing you remember if there's a shot you remember you have you have a step back three over Chet that doesn't catch rim I late in the game, but you have a lot of other great plays obviously is there what do you remember from that? Yeah, late in that game there's a lot of a lot of one-on-one possession between me and chat I think like two or three where I shot a three some at the rim something else happened It was obviously an elite defender But I mean you say it all the time as a basketball player like you wish you could get those back You know to make a different decision make a better play I feel like I Was that like I said the peak of my game in terms of closing games and so Like you said to be a four point game of two minutes like that's closing time it's time to win And you know, I feel like I had I could have done a much better job of closing that game and it's something that really bothers me Because it's like if you go up three one the pressure of game five changes and you know obviously game five is where I Reagivate the calf injury and so everything kind of changed from there and you know we were at the top We're at a point where that series was about who could win two games in a row first You know, that's what it kind of felt like it's somebody's got to win two in a row because if not we're gonna win because we won game one So somebody got to win two in a row. So game four, you know lose that game and then lose game five At the first time we had launched two games in a row. I think since it's like January we hadn't done that a very long time You know, so that's the game I wish that I could get back you know more than anything I know we're supposed to move on But that's the the one I wish I could get back Wait, what another thing I had forgotten was how physical the matchup with door was and I had even forgotten Someone was like you got to rewatch the free throw and door like throws him on the ground like I don't remember that it was like Oh, yeah, he really like drew your ass on the ground during a three throw like you're the Benedict Matthew was shooting a free throw And all of a sudden you're on the floor of a good man. He was really like every step off the ball There's like contact he made it hard for you to get the ball I mean that is that took must have taken something out of you. Yeah, for sure. I mean they they have so many they have so many great ball defenders I feel like I mean, I was seeing it now at case of all else is he shouldn't be getting paid here soon another elite elite on ball defender Coruso's a guy of battle many many years obviously with him being in Chicago. So I feel like with a what they had was the capability to a multiple defenders that a lot of us, especially me and I think Daniels obviously a great basketball mind knowing that he can't allow me to just bring the ball up freely, especially at that time with the way I was playing so I feel like they did a good job, you know, top to bottom defensively. I feel like we were doing a great job defensively too Obviously, Shay is who he is and dumb and a great series as well. So, you know, I feel like going into that series people didn't expect much, but I I think that when you look back on it, you'll especially as time goes on I think people realize how elite and how special basketball is being played at the time from both sides and that's made a form. There's also a shape push off late in that game on a baseline jumper that that's the one that pace or fans will never be able to get over. That's the one that and when we do the POE meeting this year, yeah, they talk about the push off. I'm waiting for that clip to be shown so we can ask the question. No, I was going to say I had my our version of that meeting with one of the with Amazon Prime because I do some stuff for them as I was there and they didn't show that one, but I think I think it could have been and it could have been in the montage. Try enough enough of this. This is a this is a very similar team in terms of personnel with the one big exception in the middle and that's zoo going from a shooting center, a five out center to a more interior oriented center. It seems like it would be a big adjustment. I honestly thought you guys look really good last night offensively like is it less of an adjustment than maybe I thought it was going to be it's obviously it's different and it's adjustment not just on you but on Pascal and how he has to space. But do you after a real game like how are you feeling about about that part of your team. I think you just hit the nail in the head. We're like it's much it's much less of an adjustment than you or any media member or anybody talking basketball would think. Obviously it's different because we played like we were soul five out like miles is a guy who shoots a lot of jumpers gets a lot of top and he's letting the league and top the key three is every year that we've played together. It is different, but I think what we do such a good job of is outside of miles, but miles didn't play. Yeah, we had Isaiah Jackson, we had Thomas Bryant, Tony Bradley for in the finals. We it's not we have never played with a big who's more of an inside threat right and we've done a great job and I think the league is doing a better job of taking bigs and spacing them to the corner. And it's quick to uphill D H O or their their guys stays in the paint to help they corner cut and if you don't hit them, then you have the skip every time. So I have no worries about it, especially because of Carla coach Carlisle and coach Pierce and the basketball minds that they are. And zoo, zoo's buying has been amazing. And he's a really smart guy. I think that's what people take for for granted is he's not a dummy like he understands, hey, if I'm at the top of the key, I shouldn't just be floating here if there's action going over here. Maybe we go set the way screen, I go set a pin down, I get to catch him. We go right in the backside. Like he has a brain. He's a really smart player. So I feel like it's going to look great and I think what it helps us with two. Screening obviously that we talked about, which he's a lead at and then having another post presence, I believe Pascal is such an elite post player, but zoo is as well, you know, so, you know, if you could throw it to zoo and we're, you know, we're in the middle of figuring out what our post basings is exactly going to be. Now, I tend to be the post entry pass to Pascal. I haven't been over the past couple of years. I feel like I've got really good at being able to pull over in front if people want to help because I don't think that teams really want to dig or double off of me and have a rotating defender where I get to make the read on a rotating defender. So typically teams will rotate from whoever the other high guard is, but I, which could be drew or double a or Kelly or whoever is in the game, Jaros, whoever's in the game at that time, but I think we're doing a really good job of figuring out this is new in a sense, but we've had to learn how to do it with Pascal. Now we're just doing it with a file, you know, so I like it because teams are, I don't think teams are going to be able to cross match as much. I feel like we've played teams like Boston, Mizzoula and EMA used to cross match us a lot, put Jason on miles, put centers on Pascal. Exactly. And then just, you know, have them take, you know, long twos with contests and kind of punch out of analytic their way out of it. I think that's going to be really hard to not put your five on zoom. So that'll be, that's an adjustment for defense as well. I'll put your ass in the basket if you put a link on him. All right, very important. The nationally championship series is going to start soon. You had a very much publicized falling out with the Milwaukee Brewers, your childhood team. Are you back? Have you reconsidered that you had like you just said I was a Brewers fan. Now I'm not, then you threw out a first pitch for the Cubs. Or if you really made a clean break with the Brewers, you're just out. Yeah, I'm out. I'm out. I'm out. I can't be halfway in halfway out. I'm out. Completely out. I'm a Cubs fan. Obviously, we lost the Padres. The Brewers are, you know, congrats to them. But no, I'm out. And the thing is like I got, I get absolutely killed on social media. People are telling me I was soft. I have all these things and how I'm holding a grudge against the whole state of Wisconsin and all this junk and that is not the whole state of Wisconsin. The Brewers are an organization. The books are an organization. These are organizations. They don't rep, they're not the whole state. So when people want to, you know, group all those together, it makes me laugh. You know, you can't reply to everybody, but it is what it is. Because they canceled the first pitch on you, right? Didn't they, they, the Brewers proactively were like, this guy's become public enemy number one in Milwaukee because of all the buckstuff, the game ball, the playoff series. Dame time, I got to say, man, like the day one in Vegas, I think it was in Vegas. It was a tournament game. When you threw the Dame time watch logo at him, I was like, all right, he's really not messing around. He's going for all the smoke. Like, did you regret that? Or was that like, no, in the moment, did you like, did you think like, oh, wow, I'm actually doing it. Yeah, do I regret it? No, because it was obviously a lot of fun for organization and the run we went on in that in season tournament was a lot of fun. And it just added to it. So it was fun. I think what I do regret more than anything is like what me and Dame's relationship has become because he was a guy who checked on me a lot early in my career, especially when I got traded. And we talked a lot and I got his permission to like, be announced as the letter, oh, because that's his thing. And I, we were supposed to, I was supposed to talk to him when I was in Portland. I got shingle, so I ended up going to Portland this year, but. Yeah, I think I would love to have a conversation because I think it just became more than it ever needed to be. I understand this, but I miss communication and like. and put it on me, right? I was young in the moment. I was having fun with it. But it was probably a little much and, you know, whatever happened from there happened. But he's a guy who I have looked up to, you know, majority of my life. And part of the reason I were zero is Danny and Lillard. So, and obviously we both went through the Achilles thing. And so, you know, it's a guy that I would love to, you know, at least be more, be cordial again. 'Cause obviously there's a lot of stuff going on the playoffs, but it's love on my end for sure. - Do you feel like you have a real rivalry with the Knicks? Obviously the Pacers do from Reggie Miller and On, but like do you feel like you have a rivalry with the Knicks? And the reason I ask is because all of us spent the whole spring, summer, waxing poetic about the Knicks magical run, this crazy run they got on, the best point differential in the history of the playoffs. And every time I would do a podcast about it, I would get a couple of Pacers fans telling me, hey, you know who they never beat, the Pacers. Just keep that in mind. Do you take pride in that? Is that like some of you talked about or you felt as the Knicks were like doing this? You're like, hey man, I wish we were there 'cause we kind of had their number. - Yeah, I mean, I don't want to take away from the run that was because it was like you're saying. I was not saying both of you guys. It was amazing to watch what they were doing, especially after they lost that Atlanta game. Everything from then on was like complete dominance. Like kudos to them. It was an amazing run. I hope that we get to play them again. I hope we get to play them in the playoffs because I want to play the best teams. And I think the Knicks of defending champions, you should, everybody should want to play them. And I think it was kind of the way that I viewed Boston as well when obviously they're still a really good team, but when they had the team that I just want to championship and beat us in the Eastern Conference Finals, I was jealous of the Knicks that they got to play the Celtics and they beat them. I was jealous. I was like, I wanted that to be, I wanted to play them 'cause I want to play, you know, the best team. So that's kind of the way I'm looking at it. Of course, obviously I want to get to the playoffs and do all these things. I want to play the Knicks. Of course, 'cause they're a really good basketball team and they could rivalry with the Knicks. I guess the Pacers Knicks is always going to be a thing. And I think rivalries are all for like, storyline purposes and stuff. And, but do I feel like us against the Pacers or us against the Knicks is good basketball? And will I pick my team to win a series? Of course, as they would do themselves. But, you know, I'm looking forward to playing against all these good teams. And yeah, I would love to play the Knicks and the playoffs again. That calls for good basketball. - If you could pick any WWE superstar, pastor, present and have their entrance music be your entrance music when you appear as you have done several times on WWE programming, who's would it be? - That's a great question, it depends where I am. It depends where I am. I get booed in a lot of places. - You do. - I get booed in a lot of places. So, I really don't know. I think what was fun at the garden this recent time is Seth Rollins, I came out to his music and people were like happy. And then when they saw me, it was like, me, people were angry, you know? So, it depends where we are. I enjoy the booze. It's fun. I get booed in a lot of different places. So, that makes it fun for me. But obviously, we were somewhere where I knew I would get cheered. John Cena has the most legendary theme song to me. I had his album when I was a kid. It's a platinum selling album. So, I would definitely pick John Cena's theme song. - Obviously, you're probably not contractually permitted to do it, but you and Jail and Bronson appeared on a show together, at least one of them, maybe twice. Have you ever, would you ever dream of it? Like, I wish I could actually take a bump in one of these segments. Like, I would love to have the undertake or choke slam beer. Like, what's the bump you would want to take? It's like, if you knew you were going to knock an injury and you could take any bump, what would it be? - Pull me through a table. Wow. Pull me through a table. You know, I think it's fun. Like I said, I'm going to be the guy who gets booed. And so, I would love to go to a place, get booed, kind of be on top and then end up through a table. Or it would be also cool to do it in India where I'm actually cheered. And I get put through a table and the, you know, the heel gets booed. That is good to eat for him, you know. So, that would definitely be number one for me. And I pitched it to Triple H a million times and he has not been a fan of it. So, I, you know, there will be a time. It has to mean, you know, we have to win a championship. 'Cause, you know, when you win a championship, everything in that summer is free game. Like, you won the championship. - Yeah, Cat got to hit people, right? - Cat got to do a move for something, didn't he? - Yeah, you have a choke slam. It's free game from there. So, we want a championship. I think you can count on me taking a table bump for sure. - All right, last one I'll let you go. I just, you know, watching you guys play last night, I was joking on an earlier segment. Like, I almost was trying to send signals to Pascal through my television. Like, stop playing so hard, man. It's only free season that he's flying around out there. You guys looked like pretty ready to start the season. I'm sure it's like in the head of a fan, I'm sure people would imagine, or they're talking about like revenge for 2025, getting back at it. I don't think those conversations happen like that directly, but do you sense like a real hunger among the guys who had to live through last season and you had to live through it in your own way? Like, let's get to fucking work. Let's go. - Yeah, for sure. I think a lot of coming into this year in the past, we've had a lot of videos come out from like our summer stuff. And we went in the media and talked a lot about, these are our expectations. These are our goals. This is what we're trying to do, yada, yada, yada. It's not that anymore. I wouldn't say it's that. It's, I think we know our expectations as a group. We all come into the year saying, we want to win the championship. That's our goal and we 100% believe it. And I think it's special now, because we're in the first time where our fan base fully believes it, you know? Going into two years ago, I don't think that they necessarily believed that it was possible and that makes it fun. That makes it fun. Coming off a year like last year was miserable for a lot of us. A lot of us dealt with real injuries. A lot of us dealt with real life stuff going on. And it was just not fun for really anybody, anybody with what's going on. And so coming here is obviously a fresh restart, but I think that we, it was still like, got some younger guys, but I feel like we have enough guys who have played some real meaningful basketball games. So I feel like we have some real leadership to a point of like guys understanding like, let's approach this the correct way. Let's build our habits. Let's not pretend like last year didn't happen and there wasn't a drop off. 'Cause I feel like if you do that, you're doing the whole last 12 months of disservice. Like there was a drop off offensively. We weren't, you know, plans passed, we need to defensively. Obviously we won 19 games. So there's obviously a big drop off in every aspect. So understanding that and kind of re-correcting it. And I think that's been the great part about our group and any team who has success, you have to be a player-led group. And I feel like we've, we've done that at a really high level and but I feel like right now, like obviously there's conversations if you ask me what would chip to all those things. But I think the cool part was yesterday at halftime. We were, we were like three minutes left in the game. It was like, we were like, you know, we knew we only had three minutes. We're like, let's try to win these next three minutes. Like, let's try to make a little game out of it. We got, we got to halftime. We were all in there. We were talking about what we need to work on and what we need to fix. And I was like, man, we need to slow down to the dawn. There was like an awkward silence in the air. And Pesca was like, yo, it's fun to be back, fellas. Like, we're all, you know, we're all doing it. We're all kind of like, yeah. It is fun to be back out here as a group, you know. And we have, you know, a really good group. So, man, I'm really looking forward to the year that it's going to be. And lastly, it was a lot of fun. And like, I feel like we were both playing really high level basketballs and Minnesota, especially for early pre-season game. It was a lot of fun. So, man, I'm just really appreciative to be with my feet on back on the court. Tyrese, I think every, every NBA fan is happy to have you back. It's been a while. It was great to see you play last night. I know it's busy. Thanks for taking a little time joining us. And I can't wait to see you guys in person. But best of luck, stay healthy. And let's, let's see the old Pacers back. Yes, sir, appreciate it, bro. Thank you, sir. All right, that's it for today's episode. Thanks to Nikias Duncan. Thanks to Nick Ferdell. Thanks to the great Tyrese Haliburton. Thanks as always to Mike, Billy, and Jonathan on production. And thanks to you all for listening to Andor watching. The Zach Loesch will be back with a new episode early next week. Twice a week going forward as the NBA season is almost upon us. Thanks, everybody. 21 or over in president select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas, Starkistino or 18 and over in president in DC or Wyoming. Gamlin problem. Call 1 800 gambler or 1 800 my reset call 1 8 8 8 7 8 9 7 7 7 7 7 or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut. Or is it md gambling help.org in Maryland hope is here. Visit gambling help line m a dot org or call 800 327 5050 for 24 seven support and Massachusetts or call 1 8 7 7 8 hope and why or text hope and why in New York for Louisiana call 1 8 7 7 7 7 7 0, 7, 8, 6, 7.