Hakan Ogun: The Lost Underground City of Derinkuyu

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Unlock a world of entertainment with the best value and highest or teepee in the industry on all your favorite slots and table games. And with over 10,000 games and 750 lifetables to choose from, the thrills never end. Plus, with our free-to-play game Gift Wheel, score daily prizes with rewards guaranteed. So, download Novibet today and get the power to play your way. Novibet, more power to you. This week, we traveled to Turkey and visit the underground city of Daren Kuhu, which is lost in history. No one knows who the people were that dug the underground dwelling out of solid stone. Daren Kuhu held up to 20,000 people. Livestock, supplies had special ventilation systems built into the solid rock. It is a complete anomaly to this day. And we will travel and see this facility through the eyes of our corresponded Hakan Oggan. He will discuss what he discovered. We have photographs to talk about. But this is a real anomaly simply because these hallways, these underground chambers were cut with a level of perfection that scientists today do not have an answer for. Legend tells us that the people dug this underground city when the surface of the planet was uninhabitable. We'll also hear from Melissa Tittle on news about the three fingered mummy discovered in Nazca Peru and George Hoss, the director of the Mars Sidonia Institute, will talk to us about a new city that's been discovered on the planet's surface. All this and the news today on Earth Ancients. (upbeat music) (upbeat music) For June 2nd, 2018, this is Earth Ancients. I'm your host, Cliff Dunning. Hey, how you doing? Welcome to Earth Ancients. I'm Cliff Dunning and this is my podcast. Glad you could join me today. After long consideration, I've decided not to attend the contact and the desert conference this year. They changed their lineup and last year, man, what a great lineup. When I was down there, they had Graham Hancock, Robert Beval, Robert Shock. First time I got a chance to meet with Andrew Collins, Carl Lerberger, just a lot of people in our arena, people that talk about known and unknown civilizations, and there were a lot of other researchers there. When I took a look at the updated program a couple of weeks ago, it was heavy, heavy, heavy, on the alien side, the return of Eric Van Denningen, Dave Wilka, Cory Good, Norey, George Norey, Linda Moltenhal. People like that are on the program. That's not an earth ancients lineup. So at the last minute, I got too much going on here and decided not to go. If you're attending that and that's your cup of tea, ancient alien stuff, great. And we do cross over, you know, we cross over into the ancient alien side because there are a lot of questions coming up about earth. It's ancient past. I just didn't feel it was worth my time going down there. And hey, but it doesn't mean we didn't get some good interviews. I just spoke with Michael Tellinger, did a great interview with him yesterday. That'll be our program next week. There's a couple of other people that are down there checking out some new people for me. And if they are up to speed, up to our quality, up to the level of earth ancients material, I may touch base with them. But it doesn't look like the majority of the show is a good fit for us. And so I declined to attend. Also, hey, I'm here in Northern California. I'm here in San Francisco. The show is in the desert. And I just got an email. It's 112 down there. (laughs) So I don't need the heat. Even though it's at the new Renaissance Hotel, some of it's outside. And it's also a seven hour drive, which I didn't wanna make. So, hey, more power to them. If they, if Graham Hancock's there next year, Robert shows up in some other people. Great. Robert, excuse me, Robert Shock is attending. We just interviewed him. So I hope it's a great show, I hope Victoria and Paul Andrews, who I both know well. We interviewed Victoria here. Do gangbusters. I hear it sold out. So I'm sure it's gonna be a great show for those of you who are attending. By the way, save the date. Later this month, I think it's gonna be June the 23rd. I've been talking a great deal about this lidar technology, the light detection and ranging scanning system. It's been in the news. National Geographic reported the use of this technology in a region of the Patan bio reserve, a reserve of Guatemala jungle that had never really been looked at with any detail, a consortium of scientists and research investigators pulled together some money. Among those was Dr. Richard Hanson, who we've had on our show before. And so they scan at this region, I think it was a few, I think it was like 20 miles or something like that, a section. And what came back in these scans were a phenomenal number of new ruins, new city centers. A total of 60, 60,000 new structures, Mayan structures were discovered in these lidar scans. And I've posted a lot of that on the Facebook page for people to look at, but I wanted more information about it. And so we're bringing Richard Hanson back, the foremost of the Mayanist in the world right now. He is, if you remember, excavating El Miador in Guatemala, which is one of the oldest and one of the largest pyramid complexes in the world in the Americas for sure, but in the world as a whole, there's just, they keep finding more pyramids, more citadels, or you could call them a crop list is which are these main centers that have pyramids facing each other, but in El Miador, these are mega-lythics. I mean, these are huge. I mean, really, really, really big pyramids. So he's gonna come on the program. We're gonna learn what lidar is all about from a personal perspective. And he's also gonna highlight us on some of the newest discoveries he's made in El Miador, and what they have found in some of the early excavations of this new area in Guatemala jungle. So look forward to that. He is a real hard one to get a hold with. I tried doing a Skype call with him about a month ago. And he is really in the thick of it. And we couldn't keep reception. He was using generators to power his computer. And for some reason it was affecting the Skype communication. And it would really, the feed was terrible. So we decided to try another interview later this month when he's back in the States. And this will be a really good heads up. Now remember last time he was on, we learned a lot of great things. Now he's very sensitive to what is the general focus today on the Maya. And what that means is he's giving out information that is the latest details. Now what we learned last time was that the Maya were contemporaries of the Olmeck. The Olmeck lived approximately 2,700 BC. That's over 5,000 years ago. And there's more information that they're perhaps significantly older than that. My gut is, and for what I see, and of course I'm not a scientist. I'm just an observer who's been down there, been down to the U-Cutan area for years. And what the elders tell me. Now my mentor believes that the Maya are over 100,000 years old. And it's hard for me to believe that. I think personally that it's probably closer to the 40,000 to 50,000 range. A very, very early people, very advanced people settled in Northern U-Cutan and Central and parts of South America later to become known as the Maya. Dr. Richard Hanson will not be confirming that. That's something he cannot discuss. But he can discuss what is coming up in the latest carbon dating, the C-14 dating information. And it's going to be an eye-opener because he's actually pushing the envelope further back in time. And we're discovering that the Maya had very sophisticated buildings and technology much earlier than we have come to believe. So it'll be fun to have him on the show. Not only to learn about lidar and how it works and how it's revolutionizing archaeology, but also how it's being applied in other areas. I think they are able to use it on existing ruins. It doesn't penetrate the ground. It's basically cutting through foliage is the big plus on this thing. Trees, bushes, surface grass, and surface covering. It doesn't-- I don't think it goes much further than about 20-- I don't know. I don't know how deep it goes. It goes pretty deep. So anyhow, look forward to that with Dr. Hanson. OK. Speaking of conferences, I am launching the Summer Subscription Program. Now, this is going to be an ongoing program that we're targeting for you, the listener, and we're going to offer some pretty substantial packages for people who become members. Our goal is to reach 250 new subscribers by the end of summer. So we're not actually in summer yet. Summer's not until the 21st of June. But we're going to launch it on this show. As of today, we have 40 subscribers to Patreon. Patreon is the support system subscription service that we offer you, the member. Those of you who are currently members, thank you. What you get is free books. You get unpublished interviews in the audio files. We have galleries. We have original articles, not only from me, but from a number of our interviews. But the new edition-- the new edition-- that makes this a mind-blower. And by the way, just for as little as $5 a month, you get all of this and more. Now, what we're adding is really going to be fun. It's an online live seminar. And subscribers can join me in bestselling authors in small presentations. You can listen. We'll also have it on video. This is your chance to ask questions and to interact with authors like Michael Cremot. Michael Cremot is going to be one of our first guests. He is the father. He is the author of Forbidden Archaeology. We'll have Graham Hancock, Robert Shock, and just a plethora of top, top, top people in the small presentations. And what will happen is you can sit in your comfort of your home with your family, with friends, or just yourself, and interact with me and these authors. We'll have a short presentation intro, 15, 20 minutes, and then it'll be Q and A. It'll be a chance for you to ask those questions that you've had forever. It's a chance to talk with people like Michael Cremot, with Graham Hancock, with top individuals. And this is going to be part of the package available for those of you who are subscribers. So join us in the summer subscription drive, the summer subscription program, become a member of Earth Ancients. When you support Earth Ancients, you support the work that we do here, and we are growing. We want to grow, we want to continue to grow. We want to have the top interviews. We want to have the top people on the show. That's what I'm all about. We have had those people, but I'm continually looking for new individuals, new authors, research investigators around the world who are bringing us the latest information about our past. So hey, I want to thank the following people who are subscribers this week. And thank you to Greg Rorman, Robert Rim-Kinus, and Bliss, Sandy Edwards, Steve Smith. And thank you, each of you. I really appreciate the support. And that is really helpful. And remember, this takes a lot of energy. It takes a lot of energy to seek out, to build this show, to put it together each week. And it's a job. It's a full-time job for me now. And I really need to keep it going. And when you support, when you subscribe to Earth Ancients, you help. Please subscribe. And as far as $5 a month, you get everything I mention, including these new seminars. And to subscribe, go to patreon, p-a-t-r-e-o-n, dot com, forward slash Earth Ancients. [MUSIC PLAYING] Melissa Tittle is on assignment this week, but she has sent me a new video. I think you're going to really enjoy. This is the DNA study of Maria. Maria was the very odd three-fingered, three-toed mummy that was found in the NASCA region of Peru a couple of years ago. Gaia took this on and has spent literally thousands of dollars having it scanned with MRIs and other technology. And then has allowed a consortium of scientists to actually take a look and do a DNA sequence of tissue that was extracted from this mummy. Now, the video is being offered to us free. I've loaded it on the Facebook page. It'll automatically load to earthancients.com. And I just looked at it. It's very interesting. It's a short clip about 10 minutes. And I think you're really going to like it. Now, remember, we don't know where this mummy came from. People are saying it's an alien. It's got very big eyes, very long head, and very strange physical features. We don't know if it's a branch of unknown humans, but the data that's coming back is phenomenal. Here's a short clip of the video. Hi, I'm Melissa Tittle, one of the producers at Guy who went down to Peru in 2017 to document the first discovery of several mummies. For the past year, our team has been reporting on these bodies. And today, we have some results regarding Maria and another body named Wawita. Let's recap what we have discovered thus far. We took samples from four areas in the body-- the fingers, the toes, the lower region of the pelvis, and under the arm. The cat scans and x-rays revealed that Maria seemed to have what looked like a complete human skeletal composition. Carbon dating, we commissioned, suggested that she was somewhere around 1700 years old. We also tested the white powder that covered her body. And this test revealed it was diatomaceous earth. In the same area, a baby named Wawita, the carbon dating suggested this body was 670 years old, but looked similar. With all of this information, we decided to get DNA tests to get more clarity. And after being denied by various experts in universities in America, we sent the samples to various labs in other countries. And the experts of the Russian Academy of Sciences at St. Petersburg University delivered the first results. After many months of waiting for DNA sequencing, a report was generated by the team. And this is what it revealed about Wawita and Maria. Of course, that's Melissa introducing the video, but she gives you an idea of what you can expect. Again, check out the video. This is the three-fingered, three-toed mummy known as Maria. We've had this information on our Facebook and website for months, in and out, in and out. I kind of let it go a little bit, because the data was getting kind of old. But this is brand new. It just was released to me in the last 24 hours. Check it out. Facebook, go to EarthAncients, and look to the group page. Or just go to earthancients.com. It'll be under Facebook feed. [MUSIC PLAYING] So as you know, I have a great fascination with the planet Mars. And I need to kind of give some background about my interest. A years ago, when Google Earth first came out with their satellite Earthbound program, around the same time, a whole bunch of imagery came back from Mars. And I became fascinated at looking at the surface of Earth from a satellite perspective. So I got pretty good at looking at ruins. And then I discovered the work of Dr. Mark Carlotto, other individuals who had been looking at the surface, and describing archaeology. And a lot of people think, well, Cliff, when you're telling us that there is the ruins of an ancient civilization on planet Mars, how do you validate that? And how do I validate that? And why I'm so upset with NASA, and actually JPL, is that not only is there supporting evidence for artificial structures, some kind of made buildings, landforms that are man-made or creature-made, or whatever you want to come. Humanoid-made, or let me just call it intelligently designed. How's that? They're not a few. They're all over the planet. And when I say that, when I say that there's artificiality, I'm not saying it casually. I'm saying it because when you compare these artifacts on the face of Mars, you can compare them to known Mesoamerican sites. You can also compare them to the Middle East, from a satellite perspective. And it just is mind-blowing that NASA doesn't look at these with any kind of accuracy. My guess, and a lot of other experts-- and I'm not an expert by any means-- view is that NASA is choosing to pick a time date when they're actually going to release information about these, because as we know, Elden Musk and others are planning trips to Mars, and the cat's going to be out of the bag when they land on Mars to start walking around. We're looking at Mars from rovers right now and from satellites. I think when we get some bodies on the planet, it's going to be a real revelation. I wanted to call George Haas. He's the director of the Sidoni Institute to talk about a new area on Mars. It's called Mean City, just to talk a little bit about this new area that is fascinating. George, hey, how you doing, man? Hi, Cliff. Thanks for having me on about this new exciting area that we've been looking at here on Mars. Let's talk a little bit about it. Where is it located in conjunction to say Sidoni? Is it on the other side of the planet? Where is it located? Philadelphia is in the northwestern hemisphere of Mars. This area that we're going to talk about right here is near the equator, just above the equator, in the eastern hemisphere. It's near the Isidus Plentania area. And this area is called Nepentus. It's a Greek word, which means without sorrow. OK, so was it connected to the whole idea of-- go ahead. Yeah, it's a Greek word, means without sorrow. And it's connected to the idea of forgetting, which is exactly, I guess, what NASA wants everyone to do is forget about looking at these things on Mars. OK, so talk a little bit about a few of the billions. I've seen some very distinct structures in this area. And when did we discover it? When was it first found to be in a novelist archaeological site? This site was brought to our attention by a friend of mine. He's an independent Mars researcher that goes by the moniker Mean Green. And he alerted us to this area. And this isn't the only complex that's on this area. And he found this virtually using the ESA, the European Space Agency's Mars Express image, which is a large image and it shows a lot of the area, very expansive view. And he was actually interested in some structures that were above this area that I'm calling Mean Green. And it's just to play on Mean Green's name, so I call this area Mean City, because basically, he found this whole area. Mean City. OK, that's where it comes from, the name. OK, well, quickly, it has a lot of similarities to some of the other cities we've seen. In this case, there's a great deal of artificiality. It looks like it's been leveled. A number of the structures have been leveled on artificial platforms. Give us a quick overview of what's unique about this location. Well, when Mean Green brought this area to our attention, like I said, we were looking at structures that were above this. And I looked at the whole strip and I saw this area that I'm calling the Mean City, which all of these structures are all connected. They're almost like in an arching area, but they're connected. They're very close to each other. Almost looks as if it was planned out that this was an intellectual type of placement of the structures, they're not just haphazard. And it looks a lot like things you would see, like you had said earlier, in the introduction, American Indian mountains, like the mountain builders built out in the Midwest. It looks very much like that. Also like Mesoamerican structures. And if the listeners want to go to the Sedonian Institute discussion board and click on the Mean Green darkness on the edge of Forever's, which I actually call this whole area, there's a comparison on there showing the Maya site of Caracol in Brazil. I do a side-by-side comparison showing the structures there and looking at the structures on Mars. Now, there's a lot of archaeologists that are now using remote sensing. They're using the LIDAR satellite imagery. One archaeologist that I'm sure a lot of listeners may be familiar with because they're interested in archaeology is Sarah Parkack. She's been on television. She's a very prominent archaeologist in this field of utilizing satellite imagery. And it's kind of instructing all the world on Earth. She's the one who found some unknown satellites in the Middle East, isn't that correct? In the Middle East, she found Egyptian pyramids in the desert that they haven't even looked at yet. She's found a lot of stuff in Mesoamerica. She's like the prominent person. And my God, if we could get this information to her and show her what we're finding on Mars, and if we didn't tell her it was on Mars, she would be sure these were structures on Earth. - That's a great-- - That's a great suggestion. You should say, you should do, that's exactly what John Anthony West did with the weathering of the Great Sphinx. He showed images of the wall to geologists and they said, "Well, of course, that's water-weathering, not wind-weathering." And of course, that changed the whole history of the Sphinx. But in this case, that's a great idea because these ruins are so distinct from anything I've seen. We've got to get some on the Facebook page, George. So you're going to have to get some images to me as soon as you can. Okay, so I interrupted you. So go ahead and finish, let's talk a little bit about some of the-- - Yeah, like I said, the structures are so distinct that they have geometry to them. The placement looks like it was planned out. It was designed. These just aren't haphazard maces and mounds that are just distributed throughout the area of Mars. This looks like a complex that was thought out and built. And as even more evidence, we have this mean city here. And as listeners that are listening to your show later, down the road our group at the Setonian Institute and the Society for Planetary Setting Research, people like Mark Colato, we're all working behind the scenes, looking at this stuff. And this is the whole expansive area. This one site that your listeners want to go look at the Setonian Institute on our discussion board and take a look at these or on your site when I send you the images, there's going to be more. This is just the beginning. - Right. Okay, George, fantastic. Thanks for piping in on this thing. I am continually amazed that these are coming up. I talk to a couple of people who believe the whole planet's filled with these kinds of things and we're just beginning to see them more and more as outside agencies, like the European Space Agency, images the surface of Mars. If you were to give us a prediction, George, when do you think it's gonna all come to a head? And the revelations are gonna be discussed. Is it gonna be Musk? Is it somebody outside of NASA that's gonna go, hey, people, we got ruins here or is it gonna be NASA? Who do you think? - I think because what Musk is doing and pushing this Space Agency, NASA Agency to go to Mars, he's providing them with the key, the way to go there. And I think once we get there, the Kaka's gonna hit the fan, as they say, and there's gonna be no way they're not gonna release this information. I think Mars is going to be the gateway to releasing the existence of extraterrestrials, UFOs, and our past heritage. - Yeah, well, if you were to give a timeline, if you were to see Cliff, based on my work, and of course I'm the head of the Scydonian Institute, we have a scientist on board, blah, blah, blah. What would you estimate is like a revelation data? When is it gonna be so obvious to them that they can't keep hiding this stuff that it's gonna come out? What would be a date or time period? - I would say, probably within the next four to five years. - Okay. (laughs) - That's soon. - Okay, cool. George, George Hauss of the Scydonian Institute. Hey, thanks for stopping by for a little bit. - Thanks for having me, Cliff. (upbeat music) ♪ Of all the boys I've known and I've known some ♪ - At one fall step for man, one giant leap for man. Coming to you live from around the world, it's Earth Ancient News. News is collected around the world, sometimes submitted by you, the listener. A lot of times, it comes from well-known, scientific research, a lot of magazines that are documenting the latest research and investigations from around the world. And we featured on our Facebook page, you can also see it on earthentions.com. Go to the Facebook feed section of the website, and you can see everything. We got a lot of galleries. We have first-time articles. Every single day I post some new material. So check it out, see what is going on and stay on top of the latest news. One of the first things I wanna mention is, I posted a video of some of the lidar scans that were taken of this region of the Guatemala jungle that were compiled by the National Geographic. This is a spectacular video. It's already been seen by about 10 million people. It shows all the different pyramids and new surface features that have been uncovered during the scan. It is really, really mind-blowing. The estimates now are at its peak, at its peak, there are over 10 million people living in this part of Guatemala, Maya people, and these settlements are not just foundations. We're talking about new pyramid complexes, new dams, new bridges, a whole bunch of new structures that have up till now never been known. And this new lidar technology is opening us up, is allowing us to see the ancient world of the Maya as never before. And as I mentioned earlier in the show, we're gonna have Dr. Richard Hanson on the show later this month to talk to us about the lidar scans in Guatemala. He's excavating El Miador, which up till now was one of the largest pyramid complexes in the Americas. Now it looks like, most likely, there are newer pyramid complexes, what they call acropolis, these are pyramids that are facing each other in specific types of design. There is even larger complexes in this new region of the Guatemala jungle. So you can see that entire, I think it's about a five minute video on the Facebook page. Also check it out on earthenchants.com. This is a new article that came out just this last week. Here's a title of this article. And tell me if this is not something that we have not brought up here in the show. So the title is Massive Genetic Study Reveals, 90% of Earth's animals appeared at the same time. This is so, I mean, this talk about seeding. Tell me if this is not seeding or not. Talk about, think about Dr. Chandra Wick-Ramsey's who I've quoted many times here. And remember what he said that Earth's been seeded through intelligent design. A landmark new research that involves analyzing millions of DNA barcodes has debunked much about what we know today about the evolution of species. In a Massive Genetic Study, Senior Research Associates at the Human Environment at Rockefeller University discovered that virtually 90% of all animals on Earth appeared right around the same time. More specifically, they found that nine out of 10 animal species on the planet came to being at the same time as humans did some 100 to 200,000 years ago. This is amazing when I hear this kind of stuff. And apparently, they can detect this by studying the DNA found in the mitochondria of the cells. And how the hell they are figuring this out is through the genomes of these different species. I don't know. But when I hear this kind of stuff, it just is radical as what Ramsey's has to say seems to be not so radical anymore because how and the hell can all of the animal species be developed at the same time? It's like they were planted here. They just grew out of nothing. That's just amazing how that has come about. So scientists basically are saying that 90% of the species were, as they call it, born around the same time, over 100,000 species of animals apparently appeared at the same time. Tell me that's not funky. Tell me that's not crazy. Anyhow, boy, that's a mind blur. And then finally, a new study on the ancient mound builders of the Louisiana, the coastal area of Louisiana. Apparently, carefully timed their building and occupation to correspond with various seasonal changes. The people who built these mounds as early as 4,500 BC, there's also a lot of evidence for engineering these mounds to be aligned with various sunrises and sunsets. Some people speculate that these people were derivative of the Maya, who apparently migrated north from Central America and are found throughout the southern states of America. And they move as far as the eastern seaboard as well. So we've had a number of people on the show talking about the mounds. And this is just another series of settlements. What's really cool about this is it shows hundreds of ancient mounds sites in a document. And when you see these mounds all up and down, very close to the Mississippi River, it also tells us that they had some form of commerce. There was trading that was going on with people that were from present day, Mexico, most likely the Yucatan area and other parts of Central America. So that article, by the way, is mostly filled with great graphs. And that's why I posted it because the graphs really give you an idea of just how many mounds have been discovered in Louisiana. That makes it fascinating to consider. Finally, we have a video from Andrew Collins, who gave a presentation at the Megalitho Mania conference a couple of weeks ago. And it is some new photographs and research and interviews on the Java pyramid known as Ganoon Penang. And he is also speaking with Dr. Danny Hillman, who is the geologist who is excavating that mound and came back with dates of 20,000 years ago. He was actually stopped by the government after he made that carbon-14 research available. And it's a good chance that that mound is significantly older, probably in the 30s to 40,000 years old, which would shift and shake archeological community to its core, and are understanding of the ancient past. So this is a very good-- excuse me, it's a very good presentation that Andrew gives. And you need to really look at it. It's a video, it's about half an hour. And the slides are excellent, so check that out. You can see all of these videos, the galleries, the articles on the Facebook page, go to Facebook, go to EarthAncients, go to the group page, or go to theearthAncients.com. One of the things that I failed to mention is that only the articles that I post are populated on the website, you actually have to go to the Facebook page to see a good portion. But I'd say I post a lot. Every day, I post a couple of articles, but there's a lot of other people that post stuff that's just on the general site, so just go to Facebook and you can see a lot of this material. Just bite the bullet and go. All right, that's it for today's news. (gentle music) (gentle music) Today's interview is brought to you by Journey to the Land of the Maya in Mexico. This is the tour that we give each year in Yucatan, Mexico this year. It's November 17th through the 24th. Our home base will be in Mareda, Mexico. And each day, we will visit a ruin. In many places, we'll get permission to walk around and climb on pyramids and other structures. You know, I was looking at some photographs from a few years ago when I was in Cuba. I was looking at some of the what are piles of rocks. And a few years after the visit, those piles of rocks had turned into buildings. In one case, there was a ball court that was created. And this is the real fun of visiting these sites. Many times, these mountains of rocks, when they're excavated and they are compiled, they turn into buildings. They turn into structures. In some cases, small pyramids, which is just really, really fun to check out. This is a really reasonably priced tour. It's under $2,000. And most of your food is covered. All of your travel needs are covered. It's a five-star tour. We have a great time. Mexico is very, very inexpensive. And so we're about halfway full. Where there's more places left. If you want to learn more about this tour, journey to the land of the Maya. This is really, it's called, I mean, it's the sacred Maya tour because we actually go there and we discover a lot of these pyramids when we climb on these pyramids. If you want more information, go to earthachens.com/tours. This is fantastic tour. It's during the Thanksgiving holiday. If you would like to get away and join me for a few days, this is a great opportunity. If flights to moderate are very inexpensive, come out and join me November 17th through the 24th. And for more information, again, go to earthachens.com/tours. Come out and join me. This is going to be a great opportunity to see ancient Mayan ruins up close and personal. Recently, we covered the underground tunnels and canals of Central America. We focused on Mexico City area. Tiwotebacán and spoke with Marco Vigato on what he had discovered at Tiwotebacán, Mexico City, and a number of very old ruins just outside the Mexico City area and what some of the characteristics are. Today, we're going to travel to Turkey. And I am really excited to have Hakkan Agam back with us. He is-- I want to consider him our Turkey correspondent. And he is coming to us from Istanbul. And I wanted to touch base with him because he toured Darren Cuyu, which is a city, which is noted for its deep, deep passages. And it's just a real anomalous phenomenon. There's 18 different levels. But I had discovered just talking with him that there's more than just a few of these underground cities. There's quite a few. Hakkan, how are you, my friend? How are you doing? Hello, Khalif. Thank you so much for letting me in your show again. I'm very fine. I'm very fine. And I hope you are very fine there over there too. Yeah, doing great. So before we get into Darren Cuyu, tell me about what you know and why you believe there's so many of these underground cities in Turkey. Why-- I mean, I know there's underground cities in Central, South America. We have underground cities in Europe, China. Yes, what's the reason for so many cities-- so many underground cities in Turkey? Is there a reason? Well, actually, there are some legends. But also, there is one theory. This is my personal theory, of course. If you want, I can start with my own theory. Yeah. First of all, in Central Anatolia region of Turkey, we have 36 underground cities. 36? But, yes, 36. But only four of these cities are open for touristic visits. And I just visited Darren Cuyu, which means deep well. Darren Cuyu means deep well. It is the biggest one among these four underground cities. Darren Cuyu, Kaimaklu, Oskonak, and Ghazi Emir underground cities. Darren Cuyu is very mysterious, a little bit creepy site. And before going down, all the tour guides generally prefer to warn people. They are warning people about the weather and breeding, because especially asthma, sickness patients, and other type of patients, yes, they can't breed inside properly. So before going down, they want people. If you have any kind of lung problems, please don't go down after their first floor. But my personal theory is, why did they build all these underground cities? I mean, some experts say they were all built by the hitites, but some experts say they were the remnants of ancient regions civilization people. But maybe it is much, much older, maybe before the ties. And we honestly, we don't know that's previous civilization or the first civilization. But I have a theory. In Turkey, we have many fault lines. Fault lines causes earthquakes, right? But only one region, only one region in Turkey, we don't have any fault line. And that's central and not fully a region, especially around Kapodokia. So it is very smart, very wise opinion. If you want to escape from a catastrophe on the ground, you have to go down. That's true, but where you need to carve those cities, or you need to drill those cities in a place under the ground, where no fault line. So you don't have to think about the threat of any possible earthquakes. So all subterranean cities in Turkey, all of them built in central and not fully a region, new shared city, oxidized city, new city, and coin city. And we don't have any fault line in these cities. So there is no earthquake problem, earthquake threat. I don't know how they find out this, or how they manage to learn these things. But it seems to me like somebody directed those ancient people, OK, built your cities in this part of the country, in this part of the land. So you don't have a problem with caveings on earthquakes. Inside, there are totally eight floors. And I visited all of them. But Cliff, I gotta say this, between the links, between the rock cut stairs in different floors, you, everybody, not only me, but everybody should bow down. Without bowing down, you can't go deep. And this really hurts. I mean, you keep walking, walking, walking. But after some time, your back starts to really hurts. And then you just say, oh, so where is the next level? Where is the next level? So the deeper you go, you have to kind of crouch even further. Before we get into the details of Darren Kuru, which is our main focus today, let's talk a little bit about the history. So in 1963, a Turkish village man tried to expand his village house, and he just hit the wall in his own house and the wall break down. And he saw a narrow corridor right behind the wall. He had a found a corridor, yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah, corridor. And he just find a torch and follow the corridor. And the corridor goes on, goes on. And then at least your rock cut stairs. He followed the stairs, go down and reach the, like a place, like a living room place full of with rock cut columns and a strange smell. So that's the accidentally discovery story of Darren Kuru. And then he, of course, he informed the officials, many archaeologists comes and then local authorities comes. And they discovered the full site. But the interesting thing is, I mean, normally the city itself goes down more than eight floors. But until today, none of the archaeologists found any type of courage for themselves to go deeper than eight floors. I mean, they know it goes 11 or 12 floor down. But nobody there to go down there. And we didn't even send it, you know, robotic props, like the underground, yeah. I heard that it's not completely excavated. It's partially excavated. And I thought it was 18 stories deep, is what I've just read. It's 18 different levels. Is that incorrect? Yes, true. The whole site itself, I mean, the whole Darren Kuiu underground city looks like an ant colonnist, especially termite ants, somebody look at their ant colony, and then, OK, this looks like a good place to live in. And let's build it in the real life for ourselves. It's very, very extreme, the similar place. Right. Now, one of the things that I'm very curious about it, and you being a megalithic, an ancient culture, a fishianno, or somebody who is like me, who really likes to know about ancient cultures. And you have been studying them for years. The general consensus is that these were built about 700 BC, 800 BC. They're old, but they are attributed to the Assyrians. Yes, some people claim that they belong to Assyrians. For example, Persians claim that all these underground cities belong to ancient accommenites, Persian Empire, because one of their holy books in Zoroastrianism religion, when did that? The book mentions about subterranean cities. That's why Persians say, actually, our ancestors built them, because of their holy book verses. But you make a good point. And when I look at the photographs, not only that you took, but also the photographs that I find online, these are very precise cut hallways. A lot of them are-- they look like they're machined in somehow. Yes, actually, yes. What was your feeling of-- I mean, Cliff, when you touch the walls, when you touch the cylindrical doors, when you touch the corridor walls or the columns, it looks like-- not all of them, but some parts looks like polished surface. Yes. But you understand somebody, especially when you see the ventilation shifts. For me, the most mysterious part is definitely those long ventilation shifts. Because under the ground, you need fresh air for breeding, for oxygen. And our guide said, there are totally 52 different ventilation shifts, deep or drills, inside their inquiry underground cities, totally 52 ventilation shifts. And when you look inside those ventilation shifts, you really wonder, those people, they need, I mean, drilling machines, serious drilling machines. How do they carve the rock deep beneath underground? And the chimneys of those ventilation shifts looks like bull horns. On the surface, our guide showed one of the chimney of those ventilation shifts. The chimney on the ground, actually, there inquiry has no sign on the ground, except those chimneys. But the chimney itself looks like two bull horns. I mean, like a fork. OK, very interesting and very mind-boggling. I mean, it looks like a sign. OK, there is an underground city in here. And this is our sign. Maybe something like that. I don't know. But the most interesting part is definitely those ventilation shifts. So before we get into your actual tour, your actual walk into this facility, the general party line is that they were built to protect people from invaders, from people that had come in to take over their country. But there's some very strange anomalous design to these chambers. First of all, they could keep animals. And they could keep supplies. And they had kitchens. And they had tombs for burials. It's like they had a lot of everyday conveniences in these underground worlds, didn't they? Actually, yes. Normally, the official explanation for their inquiry and also other underground cities, they generally say this. First, early Christians came and excavated these cities against the Roman Empire soldiers on the grounds before they converted to Christianity because they were pagan. So they escaped from the Romans. And then during time, they added new rooms, new rooms, because their population is growing higher and higher inside those cities. So they need to add more rooms. Some experts say, no, first sitites built it. And then free genes used it. And then early Christians used it. A Persian says, like I said before, according to Persian, a common Persian empire built all those cities. But they have a different reason. They say they reason to build those underground cities to escape from a disaster, a catastrophe of something like an ice age. That's what Persian says, unlike any other story. But Persian says, our ancestors build those cities. So during Persian Empire times, because they achieved 80, Ahura Mazda warned his prophet Yima, builds underground cities for your people, like I told you. And protect them from the evil winters, which will come in the next following months, evil winters, something like an ice age, something like that. The thing that's strange about Darren Kuru, though, is that I have read that at this time, they estimated that the underground facility could hold about 20,000 people. Now, that today, that's nothing. But maybe back then, the idea was that that was enough. That was a typical city size. Is that the feeling? Is that 20,000 people in all the livestock and all the supplies and all the-- Exactly. That's true. When you get in Darren Kuru city, when you reach the bottom floor, bottom line, and you realize all those large rooms, you see the signs, kitchen, living room, dining room, storage room, and a cut-ed rail. Yes, there's a rock cut-ed rail inside. And I've been there, too. Oh, a cathedral, a cathedral. Yeah, yeah, yeah, a cathedral. I think early Christians carved it and used it. The cathedral looks like a very large room. Seriously, large. I think it's the largest room inside Darren Kuyander ground city, if you compare it with other rooms. But there are tunnels, cliff, and they put sign. Please don't go there, beyond. Because they say-- actually, our tour guy said-- that these tunnels are going 9 kilometers long. And highly possibly, these tunnels will connect nearby Kaimakla underground city with Darren Kuyander ground city, like a connection tunnel. Yes, but they're totally 9 kilometers long. So they haven't really explored the tunnel system, then? Yeah, because it's too narrow, seriously too narrow. I mean, you have to be a person like a hobbit from the Lord of the Rings. And then you can follow inside that tunnel. It is seriously narrow. OK, well, that's interesting. So is the stone that was cut? Is this granite? What kind of rock is it that they cut into? Because it's solid rock everywhere. It's solid rock, but Kapodokja region itself-- I mean, on the ground, on the surface-- everywhere is covered with volcanic tooth rocks because two inactive volcano located in Kapodokja region. One is Hassan Mountain, the other one is RGS Mountain. And Kapodokja landscape, shaped by the lava and magma, and ashes from the eruption of those two inactive volcano. But on the surface, it is easy to carve those volcanic tooth rocks, and you can easily dwell or drill rocks and create living places for yourselves. But under the ground, I mean, I'm not a stone expert, but I can definitely say those rocks inside the ring could you see it. They don't look like volcanic tooth rocks. I mean, they are solid rocks, like you said, but type of a different material. And even two guys don't know much about the geological structure of the rock. So they can't say some sure things about those rocks. But they say the general things. These are volcanic tooth rocks. They easily derailed it. But when you touch the walls, when you touch the columns, and when you see those ventilation, same say, wait a second. This is not tooth rock, and this is not so easily carved as you mentioned. I mean, you need some serious tools and effort and manpower to create such a large and big city. And maybe you heard that in the last months in Navşehir city of Turkey, they discovered another large underground city, right beneath Navşehir city castle. Right beneath the castle? Yes, they found another subterranean city. And it is much, much bigger than there in Kuyu. Wow. Yes. And when was that the scaros in the last couple of years? I think two years ago, and for the last two years, we are in 2018, right now, in 2016. I think they found it. And they still excavated. They still excavated because it is so large, very large. Wow. So let's talk a little bit about the look of it. So before you enter the city, do you know there's an underground city? Is there an opening that is very obvious? Or is it more of a concealed opening that you get into Deren Kuhr? No, right now, it's a very open entrance. And you know, our government puts signs. They're in Kuyu underground city. And there is a ticket office there. But in 1960s, I mean, when they first discovered it, of course, there is nothing there. It's in the middle of it, very removed rural village of Navşehir city. And the local village, your man, discovered it accidentally. So in those old days, there is no sign. But then, after our government excavated it, and they opened it for a touristic visit. Right now, you have signs. You have directions. You have light bulbs. We have a ticket office there. You have kind of museum-type place. OK, so tell us how you enter into the city. Is there a cave opening? Yes, actually, yes. There is a cave opening. So there's a cave opening. Describe entering into the city. But the main entrance looks like our modern day, you know, subway stairs. You go down to reach subway. Yeah, just like a stairs looks like subway. But right next to that, or a little bit further, that stairs, I told you that like bullhorns, there is a chimney. Ventilation shaft, chimney, with a fork shaped. When you follow those stairs, you reach the first floor. And then there is a sign about warnings, especially for ill people, for people with heart diseases or asthma problems. And then after the second floor cliff, the narrow corridors and the narrow rock cut stairs begins. And that's where you start to bolt down in order to reach-- OK, so as you go down, it gets smaller. Is that what you're saying? Yes, exactly, exactly. The rooms are large. All the rooms are large. You can easily stand still inside the rooms. But after the second floors, the connection corridors, the rock cut stairs, and all of those corridors, at the ending part of those corridors, you can see doors, rock cut cylinder doors. I think they roll those cylinder doors in order to escape from possible enemy attack. There are single holes right in the middle of the cylinder, cylindrical doors. I think they used to prove it some oil or something like that, or maybe just stick the tip of their spears out of the holes to fight with the enemy. Something like that. But at the end of every corridor, every rock cut stairs, you see those stone cylindrical doors. And yes, corridors are really narrow. You must be almost claustrophobic. Exactly, exactly. If you have any kind of sense of being in a collapsed room, you must have that uncomfortable feeling. Yeah, that's why all the guides, but all the guides, without any exception, warn their visitor people in the first floor. Are you sure you want to come with us to the lower floors? Because if you can't take it, if you can't follow the narrow corridors, narrow rock cut stairs, please go back from this level. And believe me, Cliff, we have 25 people in our groups. Half of them left it in the first floor. Because the air, the air, and the atmosphere, and the narrow corridors, mainly middle aged and old age people. So half of the group left it in the first floor. But we, with the other members of our tour group, we went down and down and down. And we reached the lowest level of their increased city. Right. For those of you listening, I am going to take Hakkan's small gallery. And I'll post it on the Facebook page, which will automatically go to the Earth Ancient's website. He has a small gallery. I'll also add some photographs that show you these very unusual corridors that seem to have been cut with some form of machine or not. Because they're very-- they're perfect. If it was hand cut, there would be high low marks on the top and the sides. These are perfectly cut. And we don't know if it was a machine, or they had some kind of specialized tooling. So it's very interesting. Can you talk a little bit about these gigantic circular stone doors that were rolled in the place? What is the theory about why they would need to roll doors down on different levels? Is that just to block enemies or to secure air? Or what was the deal with that? I think the first reason, of course, is a defense mechanism against any possible enemy attacks. Because they can be rolled only from the inside. So a person from outside, you got nothing to open them. Only a person from the inside can roll them, close them, and then can reopen them again. You have to roll the cylindrical doors. The doors are pretty heavy cliff. I touched it. I touched it many of them. They are seriously heavy doors. They are not light doors. They are very, very heavy doors. They're like, what, five times? They look like they're about, I don't know, I can't ask to me, but they look like they're many times. Not many times, but we can say, I mean, easily, 300 or 400 kilograms, or you can say 500 kilograms, which means half of a ton. That's very possible, but they're really heavy doors. And there is an interesting detail cliff. I gotta say this. I checked all the rooms, nearly all of the rooms. And I realized one thing. I mean, how did they get their drinking water? Because if you're a human, you need water for living. Our guide said, our true guide said to us that there are deep water wells inside their inquiry, but all of them dried wells right now. And he showed one of them to me. It looks like a real life water well that we used to see on the surface, but it goes down and down and down. And so after the ventilation shifts, this time you, the first question, another question comes to your mind. How the hell did they drill these water wells deep in the ground? I mean, you need to find and you need to reach those underground streams, underground rivers or underground lakes in order to get those fresh drinking water for yourself, for the other people who are living inside their inquiry underground city. But after the ventilation shifts, the most mysterious part, the second most mysterious part, definitely those dried water wells. They go deep and deep and down. How did, what was the explanation for sewage? If you have 20,000 people in an underground city, how did they, that's the funniest part? That's the real funny part. Like this, I asked it. I asked our guide, all these people you said they used to live in here and they need to go to toilets very, very naturally. And our guide said, as far as archaeologists explained, there is no certain toilet inside their inquiry. So highly possibly, they are guessing like that. They are using some large cups for toilet. And then one of the person among those living people taking all the risks and during some parts of the day, maybe after sunset or maybe early in the morning, carrying all those toilet stuff, toilet large cups on the surface to clean inside. I mean, to pure them outside, somewhere outside, because inside there is no certain sewer system or toilet room or bathroom. But you see kitchens, you see storage rooms, you see living rooms, you see dining rooms, you see some living places for animals, especially for kettles, for horses or for donkeys. But you can't see any toilets. So how did they get a cow, how did they get a horse or a cow all the way down to those lower levels? Or is there a certain level that has the animals in? I think our guide said, first floor is the floor for animals because the stairs are a little bit larger there. So it is the most smart way, I mean, the smartest way to keep the animals is definitely the first floor because it is technically impossible to take all those animals down levels, especially. But some people say maybe they took little puppies, like little kettles or little ships when they are babies and then they feed them under the ground. Oh, so they grow, but I'm not agree with that theory. First floor seems the best place for any kind of animal, any kind of cattle to leave inside. Interesting. Hey, so do, is there stairways for each level? You go down stairways, or is it just like a long corridor? No, stairways. All the corridors, they actually have stairs. Yes, all the corridors are covered with rock cut stairs, all the corridors. So you have to follow those rock cut stairs down and then upside again. But the corridor is too narrow. You have to bow down. And today, OK, our government put electricity light bulbs, but you are wondering what did those people use in order to enlighten the interior parts of that during the underground city when they were carving or drilling the city? I mean, did they use torches or did they use any kind of illumination system that we didn't know right now? I mean, the lightening is a serious problem. For example, some of the tourists ask our guide, what if the electricity goes on right here right now? What when we are inside, what will happen if the electricity goes off? Our guide said, just calm down and see where you are. Just calm down and wait for it to come back in the black. Yeah, that talk about nerve-racking. That would be really scary. I understand so far, 18 stories, 18 levels deep, that's roughly 280 feet down. How did they get air down to the lower levels? I know you mentioned a shaft. Yes, 15 or 15. 52, 52 ventilation shafts. Oh, sorry. Yeah, there we go. 52 shafts. So I mean, I do the shafts pierce each section, or, I mean, what does it look like? How does that work? Is it one main shaft? I mean, excuse me. It's like these different shafts, they come in a different parts of the rooms, or what? How does that work? Well, I see, I mean, our guides showed us one long shafts, but he mentions there are other ventilation shafts, but you can easily look up into these shafts. So I checked it out. It looks like a long, but very, very, very long chimney, cylindrical shaped chimney, from the surface down to the lowest level. And that chimney has some holes on both sides, maybe those holes can carry the fresh air in other parts, other levels of the subterranean city. But the shaft I saw, I checked it out. It looks like a very long chimney, a rock cart or rock drilled chimney. Interesting. Okay. Wow. Like a tube, you know, you know, like a long tube going down inside the ground. Yes. Now, let me ask you this. This is what my thinking is on some of these very old places is that they, and this is, you know, we've had people on our show that have talked about this, but at some point, the surface of the planet was uninhabitable. It was either too hot, or as you suggested, too cold and ice age, and so people went underground. That would place the date on Darren Kuru and some of these other underground cities into, you know, many, many thousands of years in the past, perhaps as much as 10 or 12,000 years ago. Is there any writing or any script or any hieroglyphics on the walls that indicate anything regarding the people that were down? No. Nothing. Seriously, nothing. I asked it, too. And the guy said, nothing. We found nothing. No inscription, no writing, no painting, no petroglyph. Nothing like that. Just empty. Don't leave walls. Nobody wrote any strange thing. Nobody wrote any kind of hieroglyph or any kind of petroglyph. Or any kind of cave paintings, it's really strange. Empty. Don't you find that? Don't you find that very odd, especially you, Hakam, who is kind of a specialist with outdoor carvings and sculptures. That's your big thing. Yes. I found it weird strange. And especially, I found that connection, 9 kilometers long connection corridor with nearby Kai-Markly City. First of all, you think like this, wait a second. This is a connection corridor, okay, but it's too narrow for a normal body height person. You need to be a hobbit like person. And you need to be very short, very thin in order to go and follow this. So, I mean, this city, this steering, you really built by normal humans or maybe some other type of entities because the general region, we call it the land of the fairy chimneys. You know, fairy means flying, wind being, yeah, fairy chimneys. I mean, local people still call those strange rock formations on the surface as peribodgeolar in Turkish. Peribodges means fairy chimneys, built by fairies at night times, by the way. They always say they didn't build them on daylight times because they were afraid of the daylight, solar radiation. So they built it during night times and they still call it fairy chimneys. When you heard this story, immediately your mind starts to think like this, wait a second, what if those fairies or so-called fairies built these underground cities to, if they were so afraid of solar radiation, sunlight, because under the ground is the safest place for them. Wow. You know, it's funny though, I was looking at some of the photos and some of the rooms are very big. Yes. A normal person can stand in those rooms, living rooms, storage rooms, dining rooms, like a normal house. Yeah, very strange. Did you have a chance to see any of the tombs that I've heard about, burial tombs? Well, our guide mentioned those tombs and showed some of the sarcophagus type, but empty, rectangle shaped carvings, but I didn't see any type of skeleton or bone inside them, but there are rectangle, you understand, it is obviously carved as a tomb, but rectangle shaped rock cut places for one person to lie down in it, but they're all empty right now. So did they ever find any skeletal remains when they started excavating? Yes. And especially they find some major, some very well preserved human skeletons in nearby Kaimakla and Erskonek, and right now they are showing them in archaeological museums, in Anatolian civilizations museums, in our capital city Ankara, but few of them are in Nide city archaeological museum, but right now inside those underground cities, all those rock cut tombs are empty. But for the skeletons, you need to go to Ankara or Nide city to check out the archaeological museums. Is there anything unusual about the skeletons that they found, the people that they pulled out of the crypt? No, no, skeletons look like normal people, I mean normal human beings, I especially wonder about their skulls, elongated skulls or normal human skulls, but they are normal people. I think they found the skeletons of those early Christians, not the Hittites or not the real builders, but the people who later used those cities. Okay. What do they say, especially at the Darenkuru, what do they say about the lower areas, because they haven't completely excavated it, does it go down further, but beyond 18 floors or what do they, what do they do? It goes down further, definitely it goes down further, and it is not allowed for local visitors or any type of tourist visitors to go down beyond the last level. We call it 8 floor, but I think it is equal to 12 floor, but they call it 8 floor, the bottom line, but they say it goes down. But until today, nobody dared to drill it, nobody dared to excavate it, and they even didn't manage to send their robotic probe down there, but definitely it goes down, and it gets narrower and narrower. That's very hard. That's very hard. That makes it a little bit creepy, actually. Hakkan, this is a question for you, and you're a very good observer, we've known each other for a number of years. Yes, thank you. Some of your galleries and some of the outdoor sculptures and reliefs and things like that are outstanding. What do you think, what kind of tools do you think we're used to cut these passages, because it looks like a machine, but what do you say? Well, definitely, for me, they need some sort of machine tools too, because I mean, basic hand tools or primitive hand tools, I mean hammers and chisels. You can enlarge the rooms inside by using hammers and chisels, but it's very definite that you can't drill those long ventilation shafts, you can't drill those long tunnels with those hammers and chisels, and with a saw polished like surface like that, definitely some type of advanced tools, and we didn't know what type of tools they use. Interesting things are archaeologists, they didn't find any kind of tool there. Not from the early Christians, not from the Hittites, not from the freegins or the Persians, they didn't find any tools. Just the room itself, just the corridors itself, they just found the cities just like that, but no tools. Is there anything about Darren Kuru that is different than the other cities, the underground cities that they found in the region there? The main difference is, Darren Kuru is the biggest one, the deepest one, and the capacity is very high, like you said, nearly 20,000 people can't leave inside. Other than that, the other nearby underground cities, especially Kaimaklu, Ghazi Emir and Konaklu cities, they look like Darren Kuru too, but I think Kaimaklu's rooms are a little bit larger than Darren Kuru's rooms, but Darren Kuru is the deepest one, definitely. Some people say, what if they think like this, what if they didn't start drilling from top to bottom, what if they started drilling from bottom to top? Because like I said, the lower floors, especially after eight floors, deep down, it gets narrower and narrower and narrower. It brings the idea like this, first, deepest floors, built or carved or excavated by some little beings, those fairies, but the upper floors, built, excavated or enlarged by normal humans like us. Some people even think like this. Or maybe there were different kinds of human beings, maybe regular humans, or maybe a smaller human. Maybe you heard that in Indonesia, in Southeast Asia, they found a little humanoid habitat, hominohobits or something like this, homoobits or a different type of homo sapiens, but lived in Indonesia region, maybe that type of people also lived in a central Anatolia region too. We didn't know for sure, but the structure of the entire city, the interior parts, those narrow corridors really brings that theory in your mind, definitely. Let me ask you from your observation, you talk about these air ventilation shafts. If that is bored all the way down to the very, very lowest level, have they been able to lower anyone down there to the very lower level from that air shaft? Well, I don't know, but those air shafts aren't cylindrical tube shapes air shafts, so it is not possible for any kind of human to get in those ventilation shafts and then go down. It is really narrow for a normal human body size. Okay, so I'm trying to go ahead, but in today's technology, I think we can send some sort of robotic props or unmanned vehicles down there by using those ventilation shafts for human body narrow, but for robotic devices, it's very easy, I think. The reason I'm asking about the shafts is that if your theory or the scientist theory is that the lower levels were carved first, how would they start with the lower levels, are they suggesting that they cut all the way down and then worked their way up, or how do they start lower and go to the top, is my curiosity? Well, just like you said, they started from the bottom, but not everybody shared this theory, but some of the researches said, maybe those little hominid beings, like hobbits, and they started to dig coming from inside the earth, sounds like a little bit inner earth inhabitants, like hollow earth theory, but they started from the inner parts and from the deepest lower parts and coming to the surface and after some levels, maybe they made contact with humans who tried to escape from a catastrophe or from the people on the surface, so maybe they worked together to enlarge the middle stages, middle leveled rooms, and then humans learned the techniques from them and then they started to add new rooms, new places. But it's just a very less known, very less supported theory. The major majorities, of course, they started from the surface and go deep and deep and deep, but when you come to the deepest level, then the theory stops there, okay, they started from the top, but the deeper level is much more narrower than the higher levels, so who carved those levels, who carved those deepest levels there? Do they have a museum at Deren Kuru or any of these other underground cities? Well, actually, the museum is in Nide City, Nide City has a very nice archaeological museum, but the best archaeological stuff or all those artefacts found in our capitals, the Ankara, Anatolian civilizations, archaeological museum is inside our Ankara city, our capital city, which is close to Nevshir, where the Kapadokyan underground cities are located, which is close to Nevshir, but Nevshir city itself, I think they are still planning to open a large and new museum there, but the project is still going on, they are still working on it. Okay. What artefacts have been found in Deren Kuru? Well, artefacts, I mean, they found the city itself, but it's a little bit bons, I think, belonged to some early Christians, some animal bones, some cattle, some donkey horse bones, some human bones, but apart from that, they found some clay pots. People using clay pots in those old days to store their foods, their drinking stuff or something like that, only that clay pots and some bones, but no tools and no materials, just the rooms and corridors and cylindrical doors, but so if you ask any type of lightning device or a tool, no, they found nothing. That's strange that even at the lower levels, they wouldn't find any evidence of human occupation. Have they used ground penetrating radar to connect various parts? Because you mentioned that there's a theory or maybe it was your theory that there's a tunnel that would lead to Deren Kuru to a nearby. High Machu city, yes. Connection tunnels? Yeah. Yeah. And what's the distance in here? Nine kilometers. Deren Kuru and Kaimaklu, two nearby underground cities, but the distance between them is totally nine kilometers. I have to get what nine kilometers is of feet, nine kilometers, okay, to miles. 12 or 13 miles, something like that? No, nine kilometers is about six miles. Six miles? Okay. Wow. Yeah. So a six mile and has anyone, so you're saying it's like a tiny corridor. Yeah, tiny corridor, like a long tubular shaped corridor and they guess that it's a connection tunnel. And it goes nine kilometers deep to reach the nearby other subterranean city, Kaimaklu. But nobody ever think about sending a robot or a prop or an unmanned vehicle in order to discover the rest of the tunnel. I think our archaeologists should use them, should send some sort of robotic props at least to discover the rest of the tunnel. Exactly. What are the myths? What are the legends of these places? Is there any stories of unusual goings on in Daring Kuhl? Yes. Actually, I asked the local villager people who are living right next to Daring Kuhl, subterranean city, because right next to Daring Kuhl, there's even today there's a village and people are selling some gift shops stuff to coming visitors. I asked those villagers, do you know, or have you ever heard something strange from your grandparents, from your ancestors, about any type of weird stuff going around in or out of this Daring Kuhl city? Some people say, some old villager people say, they're grandparents, so some sort of strange short humanoid beings with red eyes inside those tunnels, especially close to the lowest floor, and they are secreted and escaped, and they went back to the surface immediately, especially one villager who told this to me, she told this to me, her grandparents mother writing when she was young at the age of 18 or 19 years old, with her friends, they went down inside Daring Kuhl city to play with her friends, and they saw a little humanoid being with the hooded beings, like the being wears a hood, like, you know, red riding hood, but the black hood, yes, a black colored hooded being, really small being, and the eyes are red, fiery red eyes, and they screen escape and they immediately left the city. That's what she told me, and that's what she heard from her own grandmother. So as we're talking like in the 1900s, early 1900s, something like the 1920s, 1930s, maybe 1910s, something like that, I didn't ask the exact year, but she said, my grandmother, the woman herself is a very old lady, at the 60s, so think about her grandmother. So it's close to 19th century, or the first years of 20th century, but it's interesting that she depicted that being there, very short humanoid looking, with red eyes and a hooded, like wearing a black colored hood. Now, do any of the local officials take in that information, or they rather just say that this is just wives' tales? Yeah, nobody take it seriously, I think, because I mean, people look like they know many things about the region, especially those rock dwellings and underground cities, but you get the information when you start to speak with them closely, like a friend, but they openly, they don't want to talk about the real structure or the real local tales about the region. They just say the classical storage, the early Christians used it, he thought to use this region, but when you start to make conversation with the friendly way, and when you ask them, do you know any strange lights, like UFOs, do you know any strange type of beings ever seen in or around their inquiry around these rock dwellings? Some people start to speak with you, frankly, they start to say their own experiences. For example, I can say this, Kapodoki region itself, is one of the major UFO hotspots in Turkey, you know. In the United States, you have some parts that you see flying light orbs. In Turkey, we have Kapodoki region for that, especially some nights close to those rock dwellings, those favorite chimneys. Some people claim to see that flying white colored light orbs, very speed, very quickly, very fastly, and they are making strange maneuvers in the air and then disappear immediately. So it's a kind of a hotspot for UFO sightings too. Not very often, but very rare, but people see them. So Darren Kuru, they have this myth, or the stories of these small people with red eyes. Yes, and you mentioned over 50 other underground cities in Turkey. Is there any other stories or myths or legends of the other areas of those other underground cities? Not around Darren Kuru or our Kapodoki region, but I think if I'm not wrong in our Martin city of Turkey, close to Syrian border, we have some sort of legends too. I mean, there is a well there, empty water well, but very, very deep well. That well is known as the well of the genes, you know, those energetic intelligent beings. So the local people, local Martin city people, local villagers always call that empty water well as the well of the genes, because sometimes light orbs coming out and down from that water well. Sometimes they see strange lights at night times around that water, empty water well. Sometimes light orbs are coming and landing and then suddenly disappeared. So a Martin, actually, the real place for those strange sightings and a little bit Kapodoki region too. Here in the United States, the National Geographic came up with an article about a year or two ago on Darren Kuru. Of course, they're taking great photos and looking at the different rooms and things like that. They don't get into any detail. They also say that it was a hiding place for various invading cultures into Turkey. What do you personally feel is the story of these unusual cities? If you were to say, if someone were to go, "Hakan, I'm part of earth ancients listening to the audience, what is your personal feeling?" It's a type of refuge place to escape from a catastrophe, not from an invading force, but from a catastrophe like an ice age, like a solar explosion on the surface, solar flare explosion from the sun, so they need to leave under the ground. Something like that. It definitely looks like a place to escape from a catastrophe. I don't know what kind of catastrophe it can be, ice age, it can be a solar flare explosion, it can be some sort of comet or asteroid strike, because during my visit, we went to Narligur. Narligur is a heart-shaped girl in AXORICITY, very close to these Kapodokia dwellings, very, very close, but they say it's a crater girl, a crater lake. A crater lake, but the lake Narligur in Turkish, they generally say it's just a volcanic crater lake, but the lake is going down, not like a regular mountain crater, but it looks like a collapsed place, collapsed down, and then filled with rainwater, and today it's a heart-shaped volcanic lake, they call it Narligur. Narligur means in Turkish fire, so Narligur means fire-like, maybe it's just an asteroid impact place or a crater of the impact, so when the crater hit there, it creates that Narligur place, but the blast maybe made all those nearby living people to seek refuge under the ground, the blast effect. Yeah, I hear that, it's just that it must have taken years to cut those underground solid rock caves, so maybe they somehow had knowledge of an impending catastrophe and they cut that, knowing that the surface would be uninhabitable. Yes, it's just very curious, it's just very, very curious. Are those underground cities protected? We have a UNESCO protection around the world. All of those four underground cities, which are open for tourist decreases, under the direct protection of Turkish Ministry of Culture and Tourism, and like I said, you need to get tickets from the ticket office in order to visit all those four cities, so all of them are under protection, all of them are checked by local guards and security guards daily and officially, so they're under protection, but I don't know any UNESCO issue, because even our Göbekli Tapet Temple is very old, we apply for approval of the UNESCO very newly. I mean, I think they applied for Göbekli Tapet last year, so I don't know the condition of their inquiry about UNESCO. Okay, all right. Hey, well, this has been a great eye-opener. Hakan will send me a list of photographs that we will publish on his tour of this unusual underground city. Wonderful, wonderful insight. Thank you. Before I let you go, you've always been curious about ancient Turkey and the giants. What's the latest on your research on unusual human, humanoids in Turkey? Well, giants issue is another mystery issue in Turkey, because we have some rock art reliefs, especially in cognacities, evres, made by the ancient Height Civilization, depicting one normal-sized Height King, speaking with a giant-sized human. I think his name is Tarwasa or Tarawasa something like that, one of the Height deities, so-called deities, but he's obviously a giant person, because the normal-sized Height King depicted standing on a rock in order to speak with him face-to-face. Wow, fantastic. Hakan, thank you. If you want to see Hakan's general Turkey page, it's Hakan HA-K-A-N-O-G-U-N. You can see that on his Facebook page, which he is constantly posting to, because he's very, very focused on Turkey, which is his country, and he does occasionally get send me galleries for Facebook, but go to Hakan A-G-A-N for a lot of details on ancient, ancient Turkey. Hakan, thank you. It's been a pleasure connecting with you again. Thank you so much, Gleefe. Thank you for having me, your show again. Thank you. I want to mention that Hakan has posted some photographs on our Facebook page of his tour. A lot of the images are pretty fascinating, simply because you got to wonder how the hell they carved this solid rock, and the level of perfection involved. You know, maybe it is just the man's ingenuity that did this work, but it's pretty hard to believe when you consider the sheer size of some of the rooms that are located in this part of Turkey. Thank you to Hakeem for joining me today. I also want to thank Curtis Hartog, Mark Foster, LaGronne Green, Melissa Tittle, and our production team here at Earth Ancients. That's it for today's show. Be sure to check with us each week. Hope your week is fantastic, and we will talk to you next week. Thanks. [Music] Introducing Rockshore Zero Zero, a new refreshing zero. Yes. Rockshore Zero Zero, a new refreshing abo shells are planned today. I am drinking. That's mad. Is it though? You know what? I guess it's not. Sorry to go ahead. Rockshore Zero Zero, refreshingly alcohol-free, refreshingly rockshore. Get the facts. Be drink-aware. Visit drink-aware.ie.