Hair By Sam McKnight: The Cool Girl Influence

[Music] From consumer insights across the world to the latest tactics and trends, you're listening to leap into luxury, the go-to marketing podcast for luxury brands. I'm MJ and today we're talking to Rebecca Love, the social media manager for luxury hair care brand Hair by Sam McNite. Rebecca, thank you for joining us. Thank you so much for having me. So for those who haven't experienced the whole new level of good hair day that hair by Sam McNite's product range enables, let me give you a little background. Rebecca, do chime in if I'm doing this any injustice at all. So Sam's career is in its 45th year with no signs of slowing down. He's a legend in the hair and fashion world. He was actually coined by Vogue as the supermodel's favorite stylist. So he's broken records with over 300 Vogue covers and worked with style icons such as Princess Diana, Kate Mars and Bella Hadid, as well as the original five supermodels. Now, Rebecca, your challenge for the brand is to tell this kind of epic story through the product range to people who don't know Sam. So you're bringing his story to life through things like influencer marketing, whilst also focusing as all brands need to on the collection separate to Sam. So this history that Sam has and the legendary relationships he's formed over the years, is this what sets Sam's brand apart from competitors? I feel absolutely we're so lucky that Sam is truly at the helm of his brand. We work out of his creative studio where we film incredible fashion shoots all the way through to our content for social. So we're super lucky that everything is integrated in that one space and it is a true creative hub. Product development literally often starts from us having a conversation with a cup of tea round the table and Sam's famous ginger cake like it is such a collaborative space that it means when we get to actually marketing the products, we know them inside and out. They've been in my hair for months and we truly have that passion. You know, in previous brands, you kind of do get samples. Weeks before you have to market them sometimes and it's a really different experience. So when it comes to actually talking about what makes Sam unique and how his products work, that passion is truly ingrained in everything we do. And I think as well that comes across from how we deliver it in social, it is all about product going into hair. A lot of brands, you know, we will talk a lot about influencer marketing and how it's so important to us growing the brand, but a lot of brands do really rely on that. For us, we are such a like a classic fan of Lebrand that we can get product into incredible models here and really show that difference of how we create like the best hair ever. And I think we'll talk about that a lot of how we're telling Sam's story without making it just like a really branded piece. We're kind of infusing into the market that it is creating your best hair ever, whatever that means to you. I mean, and that's brilliant and that is what's setting you apart. It's a growing industry and the competition is really hotting up from those independent disruptors, which I don't know if you would consider yourself an independent disruptor in the space. I mean, you're challenging the legacy brands that have dominated the shelves in Boots or what have you for decades now. But how are you delivering, I suppose, that unique point on socials? That is what's so interesting because Sam in his self is a legacy hero in the industry. He's got an incredible career, but the range is only a couple of years old. He really kind of properly formulated and finalized the concept in COVID and locked down. He is amazing. He goes so fast. He still does all these incredible shows every week and goes 100 miles an hour. I think obviously lockdown was a big challenge for everyone. And Sam, I think he's 68 now, still wants to go full steam ahead and that is kind of how this range came to life. He kind of had some of these products backstage for years in his kit. It's kind of the same story that Charlotte Tilbury sold so well with Magic Cream being that secret that everyone wanted to get their hands on backstage. It was the same with Cool Girl and Kate Moss and that being coined even my Kate as Kate Moss in a can. So having this amazing legacy really fused into yeah, you're right competing with those legacy brands is really interesting because if we'd been founded for 20, 30 years, we would have that same kind of level. So it's telling Sam's story which has so many layers to it while really keeping it fresh and relevant for the fact we are a new brand and we're competing kind of in that space and that more kind of indie haircare range. So for us, it's really about telling that story on social and absolutely in previous brands, maybe social spin, 10% of our focus. It's really not the revenue driver but for us. I'd say it's pretty much everything. Of course we have omnichannel views on everything but social drives everything we do. The content is creative for social and then repurposed for other marketing channels which I think is really unique compared to other brands and it really puts us in a place where we could have an idea where Sam and the next day we're shooting it in the studio. That's the brilliance of these up and coming brands or these independent disruptor brands is that you are so much more agile and you can pivot what you're offering and what you're saying to your audience to really appeal to them. So much easier than those big sort of conglomerate legacy brands that we're talking about. There's no red tape when kind of what we decide is literally can we do this Nord Let's Go and it is an amazing opportunity to have complete control of kind of how we spin that message and having incredible not only Sam but his hair team that we kind of coin his team ignite in there with 50 years plus of expertise between them. You know I've learned so much about my hair just myself when it really does inspire you to want to also share those messages in a way that's not only going to be interesting to people and not super branded boring content but also really push that message out and try and make it go viral. Yes the elusive viral. I mean according to McKinsey in 2022 the beauty market which is to find a skincare fragrance makeup and hair care generated approximately $430 billion in revenue and has a projected growth rate of 6%. And of that, Mintel reports that growth in the women's hair care specifically it was accelerated to 5.4% in 2022 and is now estimated at $1,543 million. And I guess because increasing the social media plays such a large part in beauty consumers' decision making process on their path to purchase. In fact TikTok is now used by 52% of users to discover new beauty brands and according to the fashion network TikTok is the social media platform with the strongest impact growth for beauty brands having a recorded increase of 176% year-on-year. So it's clear that as a brand it's really important that you do use social media to grow that revenue and I guess with what you're saying about hair by sound-magnetic that is even more important than any of the brands you've previously worked at. What would you say are some of your most important social media goals moment? For me if I had to describe my job in one sentence right now it's building a community so that is kind of through everything we're doing from engaging with influences all the way through to the way we're doing our community management and so this just means that engagement really is number one for us right now. We're not that obsessed by the numbers of course we've got massive goals there but we're definitely still in an early investor stage and so really nurturing those relationships is number one for us. We're using an EMV tracking software so an media value to look at our influencer share in the market. I think it's super interesting to really actually get deep analysis which we're doing through tribe dynamics to learn where we are. Sometimes especially in the UK a lot of stats about the US market learning where we are actually ranking compared to our brands in terms of how much influences are talking about us and the noise we're creating. So now doing a bespoke project with them to actually understand where we are and where we need to get to. I'm really looking at competitors not in just a way of other luxury brands but brands that are making the most noise on TikTok even if we wouldn't really consider their products competitors to us. So really really focusing on just increasing market share of how many influences talking about us and how potent they are and how often they are doing so. Okay so which of your content platforms perform particularly well? I mean naturally you just mentioned just real awesome epic kind of TikTok stats is that way you're seeing a lot of your growth. Are you embracing TikTok in that way or are you seeing it on other platforms? So in terms of tracking how we're looking at those goals I think for us we're really focused on just using EMV so and media value from influencers. We have so many amazing things that we want to achieve and so to really simplify it back and consolidate all those messages we just want to increase our market share of how many influences talking about us in what way and what form. So we've onboarded TRIBE Dynamics which is like an EMV driving platform so we're really tracking to see what we actually sit. I think one thing as a startup when we're saying there's so many other crazy brands and massive things coming up in the market it's really hard sometimes to actually know where you're ranking between these other brands. So that investment I think was really important for me and my role when I joined. So now we have a really good sense of where we are and where we want to be so then we can kind of use that to really leverage everything else we do versus before really focusing on a campaign focus. Now we're just looking at everything as a whole and how we get that message as we said about Sam and the brand out there. Amazing so you mentioned influencer marketing or influencer activations there is that the kind of content that performs best for you guys and and why do you think that is? So funnily enough it really isn't and this kind of brings on the challenge that is influencer marketing for us so because of the whole legacy of Sam and the heritage of the hair team we know that pretty much sometimes I'll be editing a reel and I'll kind of know it's going to go viral because it's the team backstage at an incredible like Balman or Vivian Westwood show doing something that is really intricate sometimes there's six hands in the video and you do get hilarious comments saying well I can't do that at home and that definitely brings you onto the challenge. How do I translate this content that does really help our engagement and boost us out giving us that amazing awareness that often gets reshared on pages like Vogue which again is an opportunity a lot of brands don't have through sounds legacy we're so lucky to kind of have that exposure but then this brings me on to how do I teach these people that okay you're not going to slick your whole head back with gel like that and do that incredible spiky look that we did at Vivian Westwood. I don't have the forehead. So how are we going to translate that back to the same products we're using in Sam's kit backstage that are our range and say we know you're not going to do that but here's an incredible inspiration or something to really inspire you to create your bestay yet with those products so we can go from a video having seven million views to you know something very product focused having a couple of hundred and there's no shame in that bit it's how we really kind of still have all those brand pillars that we need and talk about the things that are maybe less shiny and interesting to the fashion world but also still show people that they can be translated into everyday routine. Okay, so how would you then inspire people at home every day, people like myself, when I'm there without the six or seven person hands to help make this mess of a hair any better? But how do you brief them creatively into being able to translate that these products are the things that will help you do that? Yes, so I think a big thing we'll talk about with our influencer strategy is really building out ambassadors and thinking that step ahead on who's going to meet you advocates for the brand. I think one thing I've learned from working in the beauty industry for so long, I definitely underestimated coming into this role pretty much with a skincare background, anyone can put a cream on their face, not everyone can do their hair in the same way and it is such a big point in these briefs. So it has really been about building community ambassadors that we really want to invest in and so they can be people that we know they come backstage at the show with us, they get such amazing opportunities from that and they really are true ambassadors to the brand. That then means they go home, use a smaller creation of products and create those looks in a way that is really wearable. So we did that with 16 at Arlington this year and one of our leader masters and it was a really great performing piece of content that then we briefed out to our smaller creators and our micro communities as well through a mailer to then inspire them to create these trending fashion week looks as well. It's really interesting isn't it? I've read recently that 61% of consumers say that they trust the product recommendations they get from influencers over branded social media content as this is something that's changing all the time and social media is changing all the time. Have you seen the use of influencer relationships evolve since you first began working with the brand? Yeah so absolutely I think it's so interesting isn't it? You want something to feel really organic but we have to get these call messages about Sam out there or we're never going to increase that education. So it's definitely been attacked at using the things I've kind of mentioned like Sam, studio and the incredible team we have in the space to really leverage that so it's getting people in front of Sam it's getting team at night you doing their hair it's doing master classes in the studio where people follow along and learn their own tips so we're really in that space in graining and in the brand DNA but we're not expecting them to go away in a long brief and say it out word for word. So they leave there with a real organic confidence about what our message is and they can share it in their followers and they're made that is the most convertible and you know understandable so we really do push people to understand more about our products in an organic way. And I guess that kind of that then resonates with people because they don't feel like they're getting just branded content they feel as though they're getting content that actually comes from the person they want to engage with. Our one philosophy because I think for me we've got so many stories about Sam it's really refining things and taking a step back is creating your best hair yet it's discovering the possibilities it's super simple Sam just wants everyone to have their most confident hair and really transform themselves and that doesn't need to be an hour longer routine it can be one product in five minutes so making people really understand that and be able to pass that message on to their followers is so important to us. That's interesting because I actually read a stat that 86% of marketers are using influencers to raise brand awareness and with that in mind the sales conversions out of that are eight out of ten consumers purchase something after seeing it recommended by an influencer. So brand awareness and telling these stories and telling sound stories is actually probably the most effective way to convert to sales without being overly salesy because marketers use influencers for increasing sales conversions specifically at a rate of 46%. So significantly less than that. So noting that brand awareness and telling this story arguably isn't something that you can measure in the backend. It's not a definitively measurable metric but it is so so important for the long term success of any brand not just not just Sam's. So how do you measure the effectiveness of your influencer partnerships when it's storytelling that you're trying to do and it's brand awareness that you're trying to do. I mean what is success to you and how rigid are your KPIs around that? Yeah I think it's so interesting because yeah conversion definitely isn't at the moment my number one metric. We're definitely more focused on having those conversations which therefore means we're kind of looking at partnerships that are for beautiful content or to get that message across. So they're definitely more focused on the sentiment at the comments, the sentiment of how the influencer portrays that brief and working with kind of as I said building up more of an ambassador network for influencers that really are ingrained in the DNA of our brand so they feel that kind of opportunity to really spread our message in their most confident way. I think a battle is a lot of these amazing hair influencers will have contracts with other competitor brands and so how do we respect that and that's their full-time job but also make sure that our core message which is discovering your best hair yet comes across on the content they create for us so it is really building that confidence in the way we work with them. So most of the metrics are really focused on just sentiment and often reading the comments on influencers content will actually infuse what goes into their brief next month. We have some of our ambassadors have lots of comments about all that was really interesting how you use that product in that way and so I have a really organic conversation with them well would you like to do your brief next month on just that one product and that technique that is really true to how you talk to your audience. That's great. A dialogue approach that you're able to kind of pivot with consumer sentiments and you're giving these influencers and these ambassadors the creative freedom to be themselves as well which is what's going to come across so authentically to their own audiences which is really something that I think a lot of brands have struggled with in the past is letting go of that creative control especially when you're in the luxury industry and you've worked for decades and decades refining your brand and what you stand for and how you want to present yourself to hand that over and put that in the hands of somebody else is quite a scary thing for a lot of my two managers. I feel like in this role there has never been a brief that's gone to two people we have to really keep in mind as well. Diversity is of course a massive part of the brand for us. Sam has worked in the industry for so many years and knows so much about different hair textures and so that's so important to respect that as well because different products are going to really react differently to everyone's hair. There's also a real element of people won't want to necessarily slip back their hair or do their hair in a crazy up do they just want to feel confident and that's again that core message we're constantly pushing so keeping that in mind that the briefing process is really unique to everyone and apart from you know the really core message it's very fluid it's more about the feeling so the strongest thing that kind of goes through all our briefs is simply the before and after. We want a really amazing before and after of your hair but everything else is really unique to that influencer. Does that kind of drive for diversity in every respect then drive your influencer selection programme? Yeah I think you know one thing for us is signature Kate Moss cool girl hair is something that everyone can create it is something you can do an amazing textured coily hair but it's of course has a very different look and feel to it so it's about making sure that even though that message is about easy breezy undone really resonating that Kate Moss cool girl message we're also making sure that everyone feels included in that and there's education on every hair type for the product. Okay so influencer marketing was a 1.7 billion dollar industry in 2016 and that grew to 16.4 billion in 2022. I think obviously lockdown was a huge huge time for growth for hair care brands specifically I mean we're back at home with with trying to make those locks look luscious. I certainly was there trying out so many different products in my bedroom so that nobody could see but my postman and it was huge. So that growth hasn't slowed down so where do you see the future of influencers going when it you know in conjunction with this and are they here to stay? It's such a fun part of the industry to work in you know arguably influencer marketing is the favourite part of my role for me because as I said we have a really collaborative approach at Hair By Sam McKnight but also the relationships I've built with these influencers across previous roles you know really growing up with them some of them I've seen grow from 5,000 followers to millions and it kind of becomes easy and easy to pinpoint who you can see going viral I've had you know colleagues that have grown 100,000 followers overnight which is something we definitely didn't see a few years ago so it's learning different ways to kind of we have our legacy influencers we have those core ambassadors also ways to nurture relationships with up and coming people people who are having their own little viral moment and how we infuse our message into that one kind of every brand trying to kind of grab onto them and for me I think you know we speak a lot about viral content but this also now is really translating into people as an entity their brand is going viral as well so it's how you bring those two together. Tube girl everywhere during Fashion Week we love Tube Girl. Tube amazing. Cool go on a hand. So does that mean that the content creators you're working with differs across different platforms in that case? Yeah I feel like with Sam's history and as I said the way we kind of have a really unique opportunity to work with Vogue and those kind of big publications on content they always push through Instagram so Instagram is our real bread and butter home but for me TikTok is of course a massive part of my job and we really want to see kind of that growth there and try you know get that viral moment so for me Instagram talks about everything it talks about that brand story and it's where we work with most of our ambassador big influencers that really as I said have been to those master classes of MetSam and have that core foundation but TikTok we are working with anyone from a thousand followers up into the millions and just really focusing on cool girl so the idea with that is if we know what we're doing so one product has a chance of going viral and becoming a TikTok maybe buy it at S Moment it's that so let's simplify that back that message and just talk about that and all the amazing ways that one product can transform your hair so we're working with about 150 influencers a month on that platform which is a massive output for the size of our business but I think at the moment it's really important to getting that market share on that platform and really seeing that growth. So tell us about a campaign or a strategy on TikTok that you've completed for the brand that you are particularly proud of. Yeah so talking about that cool girl moment it's kind of just not pushing product it is a feeling it is that confidence in your hair so over the summer we launched TikTok shop which I think is definitely a massive talking point for brands and when I mention it appears that all always like, oh, how's that going for you? What's happening? Was it worth it? Because it is a lot more work than just turning on, you know, your Shopify via Instagram. It's a whole beast in itself, and it's a bit of a massive taking on. And, you know, you kind of get through the slog of getting that all up and running. And then it's like, okay, well, how are we going to actually maximize all this effort we've just put in? So we created a campaign called CoolGar Summer, which was all the way from gifting all the way through to massive partnerships and also events. So the idea was there that it isn't just about, as we said, anyone can use CoolGar, it doesn't matter what your hair type is, but it's the feeling that we really want to emulate in the brand. And I think it was just about stripping back all those stories about Sam and it's just having the confidence messaging, which worked really well for us. And there's meant that, yeah, the TikTok shop is doing really, really well and an exciting part of our journey. Well done. Does that mean that your engagement has kind of flipped and it's now higher on TikTok or are you still seeing more success via Instagram at the moment? Yeah, so definitely more success on Instagram because I think we post everything there. But TikTok, again, really making sure we are doing unique per-spoke platform content, making sure that the content's gonna sing best on there and be definitely trending. We do have an amazing archive from Sam, so we're quite lucky that we have lots of things that have worked really well in the past that still work really well now. Amazing reels from shows maybe six years ago was Chanel that are iconic looks. And I think one big thing for me, when I joined Sam, I had no idea some of these amazing things he had done or him. One moment for me, when I joined that really stuck with me, I was talking about his career and there was a season at Chanel where they flipped Gigi Hadid to Dark care and Kendall Jenner to blonde. And I feel like that is loads of people can remember that. I had no idea Sam did that. That was his, they were wigs, right? They were his wigs. So he recently did a display, was it in Selfridges? Yeah, so all of his iconic wigs and oh my gosh, they were epic. So this is another amazing thing that I didn't really understand about hair and it's been such an amazing challenge for me. A lot of those looks obviously backstage really quick wigs and Sam has one of the most impressive wig collections ever. You guys all have to come. I'm coming to the studio. I'm trying to go to us. So because I am actually a wigwag, I like you. I don't wear them to work or anything. No worry guys, I should. But I have about six or seven wigs at home with my wiggery. Most of them are just showy, like showy. I can make show look. So I just love that. So this is a big thing for me. And it's been such a big thing for a lot of celebs as well. It's such an easy way for them to change up their look from day to day without destroying their hair. Let's not talk about Marilyn Monroe's hair issues. I like that. Yeah, like. But in general, the global premium hair care market was valued at $21 billion in 2022. And it's been one of the few industries, as I mentioned previously, to experience growth, drawing and since the pandemic. So the market is expected to reach nearly $31.5 billion in revenue by 2027. And I actually think so far that's tracking to happen a lot sooner than 2027. So how are you going to be able to build up this growth and continue this growth as a brand and jump on to this, obviously, very, very profitable opportunity that's risen? How are you going to be able to empower all of these people across the nation that they can have the best hair looks and the you guys are the best people for the job? I think a lot of it is the creativity in the team means that we do these amazing big moments. But it is really simplifying things. It's especially in the start about despair. Everything is hit the ground running, which is an amazing, like, such a collaborative creative space. But now it's thinking about what does the consumer actually want? They're not going to do this every day. Let's start with something that's simple when it is just about boosting how your hair looks a little bit. We talk a lot about tweaks. So that's something for us that we always brand on our marketing policies, something that takes under 10 minutes to do. So for me, everything for us right now is acquisition. And as we said, the industry is massively growing. So treating everything as an acquisition phase, which, to me, just means getting products into people's hands. How do we do that? And it's not just on our socials. It's also working really closely with our retailers. We give them a lot of exclusive content and a lot of exclusive opportunities to work with Sam and the team. So it's really spreading it to everywhere we can get our hands on to really make sure this message is pushed out there to get people to try something from our brand. It must be a really exciting time for you because you can kind of experiment so much in that startup environment. Yes. And as mentioned, we've had our list of products. And I've been like, we should do this. And the next thing you know, we're sampling products and sounds, putting them in his kit to see if there's something we're going to launch. So it's a really exciting space to work in. And it is founded by Sam and his team who've been with him for 30 years that are true creatives. So it's really about leveraging that amazing creativity and the inspiring space that is Sam's studio and then bringing it into more of a traditional marketing strategy. And that's definitely the biggest challenge, but also we work as such a family environment. So it's a very exciting time. And I think it's just finding a happy medium between going all out there, but also understanding that every day consumer doesn't want to do a million things to their hair every day. Breach. Yeah. It's better wake up. Seriously. It's a change of guys. It's embarrassing. So in that nice cozy family environment, I guess you hear lots of fun industry stories. Can you share any with our listeners and tell us what's the best story you've heard from Sam? Yeah, absolutely. I mean, coming back to the wigs, just sitting next to those everyday, a certain inspiration, or like, I'm metres away from Lady Gaga's famous born this way wig, which I feel like is just such a great atmosphere to be in. But in terms of stories, I think, you know, so in awe of Sam and it's such an amazing opportunity to get to speak to him on such a deep level all the time. And, you know, hearing really how he got started in the industry, he was back working in the '70s with the original supermodels like Cindy Crawford that he still works with today. But for me, hearing about his relationship with Princess Diana, he was the one who gave her that short hair. That is kind of how that all started. Wow. They met on a shoot and he did her hair and he did a fake kind of bob. And she was like, what should I do with my hair? And he went, I think we should chop it off. And she just said, OK, do it. And there was such trust. And that, you know, back as well, talking about things going viral back before social media, that was everywhere in the press. It was front cover at the next day that she'd cut her hair. And that formed a really beautiful and long relationship for them being her stylist. So, yeah, hearing those amazing stories that are just so unique from Sam, they're just so incredible. And such an iconic cut as well. That is hair history basically. And you get to kind of be in the presence of it every day. Yeah, no, very lucky. It's an amazing space to be in. And definitely lots of exciting things always happening with the team. I'm always in awe of their diaries and where they are. So, do you get your hair cut by Sam? I haven't had my hair cut by Sam actually yet. But I haven't had my hair cut by the team. But it's quite funny because I actually don't like cutting my hair very much. I'm always like, the best thing will be when you come in that I remember once Sam asked me how I did my hair that day. And I was like, well, Sam, I'll tell you. But, you know, the compliments when you've had a good hair day are always the best. Yeah, but I imagine there is no wiggle room there for you to have a bad hair day, right? Like, could you genuinely shout to be obvious? I mean, we work in the luxury industry. I could not show up wearing leggings, you know, or sweats or anything. Just in case a client meets you, brought up that day. But I mean, do you have, do you feel immense pressure to have good hair every day? Well, what's funny? One of my favourite products is actually our gel. So, you know, any day I just, I can just slick back my hair and go, well, you know, today I'm just really feeling the gel moment. So, yeah, and often get compliments on that too. So, you know, just the ballet burners and a saw the fade of this year, to be honest. Amazing. Well, thank you so much, Rebecca. It's been such a pleasure having you in. It's been so great to join you guys today. Thank you. And next, we'd really love to speak to Sam because it sounds like he has some evicts. Yeah, he has way more stories than me to tell. Maybe you can come wearing a wig. Brilliant. Brilliant. If you enjoyed this episode, follow us at leap into luxury podcast on Instagram to find out who we'll be speaking to next. (upbeat music)