Gypsy Rose GOES OFF After Fiancé’s Tragic Death

I am addressing something that I've been really kind of trying to keep quiet about. Gypsy Rose Blanchard finally breaking her silence after the death of ex-fiancé Ken Urker. I really loved him. This following a shocking statement from Ken's sister. You're not gonna f***ing do to my brother what you did to Dee Dee. You're not lying on his name. So what does Gypsy have to say for herself? She doesn't know anything about our life. This is Scandal, presented by Law & Crime. I'm Sierra Gillespie. For the first time since Ken Urker's death, we're hearing from Gypsy Rose Blanchard herself, speaking out on a recorded video posted to her social media. I'm just gonna come out and finally address it. In the more than five minute long video, Gypsy addresses a range of topics from unalleged feud between her and Ken's sister. She, for the last six months, has been giving us nothing but hell. To the last words she spoke to Ken before his death. My last phone conversation with Ken. And we'll get to all of that. I'll play you Gypsy's entire video statement in full. But first, I've got to explain how we got here. Gypsy Rose Blanchard rose to fame in an unconventional way after murdering her mother. Who initially brought up killing your mother? I did. That's Gypsy back in 2018, three years after the death of her mother. And while Gypsy was convicted of murder, she took a plea deal back in 2016, she still gained a lot of sympathy and support from the public. Because, simply put, this was not an ordinary murder case. I truly didn't believe that nobody would believe me if I told anyone. My mother had legal documents in place saying that I was incompetent. And I thought that meant that if I went to anyone, the police, or told anyone, she would just have them convinced that I was making everything up. The case brought the term Munchausen's by proxy into the cultural zeitgeist. It's a mental condition where someone, usually a parent, fabricates serious illnesses of the person they're taking care of. In this case, Dee Dee Blanchard, Gypsy's mom, convinced her family, friends, neighbors, doctors, even her own daughter that she was living with a whole host of severe illnesses. What? What illnesses did you believe you had? Cancer, muscular dystrophy, I needed glasses, I needed hearing aids, seizure disorder. But as it turned out, this was a wildly false narrative because Gypsy was never really sick. Why were you in a wheelchair in June of 2015? Because my mother forced me to be in one. Do you know why you were forced to be in a wheelchair? No, sir, she just forced me to be in one. And how long had you been in a wheelchair as of June of 2015? Since probably I was about eight years old. Was there a time between when you first were put in a wheelchair in June of 2015 that you figured out that you really didn't need to be in a wheelchair? Yes. When was that? I always knew that I couldn't. I didn't need the wheelchair. And how did you know that? Because I could walk. Gypsy testified she thought no one would believe her. Why did you not tell doctors that you knew you could walk or you didn't believe yourself to be ill during the time that you were doing this? I didn't think that anyone would believe me. I thought they would eventually tell my mom and that would make my home life even worse for me. I feared her more than I feared anyone else. Gypsy plotted the murder with Nicholas Godejot. Her secret. Her third boyfriend who she met online. In June 2015, Nicholas took a bus from Wisconsin to Gypsy's home in Missouri to carry out the act. He stabbed Dee Dee to death as Gypsy hid in the bathroom. While you were in the bathroom, you could hear your mom, correct? Yes, sir. And you heard her scream? Yes, sir. And she screamed your name? Yes, sir. Yes, sir. was convicted of first degree murder and that's the trial that Gypsy testified at. Now we only played out a couple of sound bites from Nicholas's trial but there's so much more to this case. Now for Gypsy's role in the murder of her mother she took a plea deal and was convicted of second degree murder. She was sentenced to 10 years in prison and it was during this stint in prison when the HBO documentary Mommy Dead and Dearest premiered bringing a lot of awareness to Gypsy's case including from Ken Urker. He reached out to Gypsy and they started out as pen pals before taking their relationship to the next level even getting engaged when Gypsy was behind bars. But there's a lot that happened between then and Gypsy's release and even to present day. Ken and Gypsy broke up. She married a school teacher named Ryan Anderson. They got divorced and in December 2024 Gypsy gave birth to a daughter she shared with Ken and that brings us to October 1st. Now there's been some back and forth about the status of Gypsy and Ken's relationship at that time. According to multiple reports it appears as though they broke up in September and by October they've been living apart. TMZ reports that there had been some toxicity in the relationship recently even revealing unalleged text exchange between Ken and Gypsy. Now we can't substantiate that this 100% without a doubt is a message between Ken and Gypsy but it appears to be that way. Here's what it says. Ken starts he says I'm going for sole custody. I took pictures of you stabbing the headboard and smashing pictures all over the ground. You are not allowed to around our daughter anymore unsupervised. You are too unpredictable and dangerous. I can't have that around my child or Parker meaning their dog. This is officially done. Gypsy who we think is Gypsy replies I'm so sorry I was drunk. Please don't take our daughter. I told you I needed to punch a pillow and get out these hurt feelings. I'm sorry for trashing the headboard and smashing the frame. That was unnecessary. I would never in a million years hurt anyone. I came home and was very hurt. So I threw some stuff around and yes took some of that and threw some of the other stuff around and threw some of that anger and pain out on an object. It doesn't make it right but I did. And then I left to spend the night here in cutoff to cool down. And that's really when the text trails off. A source quote unquote close to the couple told Page Six she meaning Gypsy wanted him back obviously and he just wasn't in the right frame of mind. His mental health wasn't good for the past few months. We all just wanted him to kind of get better and see if he would get some therapy. And Gypsy was just hoping that getting back together would be the outcome. But then, tragedy struck. On September 30th, Ken reportedly went to church with Gypsy's brother Dylan and his wife Anita. Dylan and Anita later told investigators that Ken had been making concerning statements that he was depressed and upset. They also mentioned he went live on TikTok at about 11 o'clock that night. And we got our hands on that video too. Here's what it looks like. The video continues like that for about three minutes total. Ken doesn't say anything. It's just him driving in the dark. And according to officials, this video really worried Dylan and Anita. So when Ken didn't show up to work on Thursday, October 1st, Dylan and Ken's boss then went to his home in Raceland, Louisiana to check on him. That's when Dylan reportedly saw Ken through the window and first responders were called. He was pronounced dead later that day, his 34th birthday. Officials told E! News he had a paper towel placed on his left arm with what appeared to be blotches of blood on the paper towel. The handgun on the nightstand was holstered laying next to two shot glasses and a syringe. Nothing else inside of the bedroom appeared to be disturbed or moved. Now, we've reached out to Louisiana officials for a copy of Ken's autopsy and toxicology reports, but haven't heard anything back yet. It's possible they're still pending at the time of this recording, but for now, it's believed that Ken died of an apparent overdose. Gypsy told People Magazine, I don't know if it was intentional or not. He was not in a good state of mind lately. Gypsy has since spoken out about Ken's mental state leading up to his death, blaming cyber bullying. She told People Magazine, Ken endured an unimaginable level of public scrutiny and relentless cyberbullying across social media platforms, including TikTok and Reddit. The cruelty directed toward him was something no human being should have to endure. I believe the tremendous weight of that scrutiny and harassment had a profound impact on him, and I hope his passing serves as a reminder that there is a real person behind every screen, every headline, and every comment. Gypsy created a Change.org petition to urge lawmakers to take a closer look at the laws as they pertain to cyberbullying. She wrote in part, Ken recently died following a suspected overdose. At this time, we do not know whether the overdose was intentional, and I will not speculate about circumstances that have not been determined. What I can speak about is what happened before his death. We reported it again and again. Ken was a public figure and experienced an enormous amount of public scrutiny. Across platforms including TikTok, Instagram, YouTube, and Reddit, there was extensive content about him that we believed, crossed the line from criticism into targeted harassment and cyberbullying. Later, Gypsy posted some receipts to Instagram showing alleged cyberbullying. For instance, people on Reddit allegedly called Ken a dangerous, dark, smug, reckless, neglectful father. Others wrote things like, Ken's an actual clown with the emoji, Ken is a spineless loser, and huge loser. 100% this guy has been a huge loser his entire life, and Kenny's demented as F. Discussion also includes voice slash, femininity ridicule, sexuality speculation, drug allegations, fatherhood attacks, and serious unsupported sexual criminal allegations. Others pulled Gypsy into all of this, writing, is this your next victim? Sleep with one eye open. And what's up, Ken? Nice to see you alive. Written before he died, of course. But all of that brings me to Ken's sister, Autumn Erker. She had a longstanding feud of sorts with Gypsy, documenting this on TikTok. And here's a snippet from a poem she wrote posted back on August 16th. This is a poem about a girl that we all totally don't know. This is called The Queen of Make-Believe. Oh, here comes Miss Storytime, queen of the lie. With the new details she forgot to mention last time, you twist and you turn every fact till it bends. And then you call us all haters when we won't play pretend. You swore that your stories were perfectly true. But one call after the other is exposing you. And yet you are more concerned with your lips and your hair. Girl, read the f***ing room. Nobody cares. A thousand dollar hairstyle, injections on skew, a payment plan face, just to still be disliked too? Hell, if I were you, I would hate me too. You wanted the spotlight, the pity, the crown. But truth had a funny way of chasing you down. You can filter your face. You can edit your tail. But you can't put concealer on truth when it fails. So keep telling your stories. Keep changing the plot. Keep claiming you're innocent. Give it all that you've got. Because lies may run fast, but the truth doesn't tire. And eventually everybody sees through a liar. And that poem was written prior to Ken's death. But after Ken's death, Autumn went all the way to the end of her life. And she said, Autumn went off telling places like the US Sun, quote, Gypsy had no right to lie and say that it was because of some text that she sent to him. Gypsy had been telling people they were engaged in planning a baby number two. None of that was true. But Autumn took it to the next level on TikTok Live. I didn't realize Gypsy had already went to Team Z, but you know, she tried to paint a fake narrative that they were engaged and blah, blah, blah. No, y'all weren't. And you're not going to f***ing do to my brother what you did to Dee Dee. I don't care if you're trying to make it seem like y'all were all in the f***. He was not with you. Just last night, he was detesting your f***ing name. Stop. You have my f***ing name. You have her now. You got what you f***ing wanted. We first reported on Autumn's video a few weeks ago following Ken's death. And now we're finally hearing from Gypsy herself. So, um, I'm making this video and I'm sorry that I look so terrible. Um, but, um, I've been having a really hard time. So, um, I just want to say that I am addressing something that I've been really kind of trying to keep quiet about and I'm trying to be extremely respectful. But at the same time, I'm watching all of this unfold. Um, and I have been watching a lot of this unfold, unfortunately, in the media. And so I'm just going to come out and finally address it. Um, so I think the most important thing that I want to say is that, um, I really loved him. And he was a really good person. Gypsy posted this video to her Instagram on Tuesday, along with a lengthy caption. It read in part, quote, I want to address this once and only once. Just because someone is family does not mean they are privy to every detail of a person's life, nor does it give them the right to speak on that person's behalf. Unfortunately, even the most tragic circumstances, there are those who see an opportunity rather than a loss. It is no secret that Ken's sister, Autumn, and I have never been on good terms. She has been openly opposed to our relationship from the beginning. Despite my repeated attempts to help her, I have not been to make peace with her. That hostility continued. So naturally, Gypsy talked about Autumn in this video. I want to make a point that just because someone is a relative of, um, someone does not mean that they are privy to any part of that individual's life. Um, sorry, that was my stomach. Um, Autumn wasn't close with Ken and Ken wasn't close with Autumn. Gypsy revealed her last phone conversation with Ken involved Autumn. My last phone conversation with Ken, he was, I was getting an apartment and, uh, he was, he was worried about me. He was worried about people harassing me. And so he's like, just be careful. Like I wear a COVID mask when you go outside. So you don't get recognized. Um, he's just like telling me about how concerned he was, um, for my safety. And then, the conversation turned to, have you heard the, the prison call that came out where I was talking about Autumn? And I said, no, I'm not listening to the prison calls. And, uh, he said, well, it was a call from like 2018, 2019, something like that. And, um, that he was telling about Autumn and how she is. And so he was like, yeah, she's blowing my phone up, um, threatening me saying she's going to go even harder. And I was like, yeah, she's going to go even harder. And I was like, yeah, she's going to go even harder on us and me online, um, with talking and just the, the, the hate, right? Because she has her little TikTok community. Um, she's never approved of, you know, our relationship. And she, for the last six months has been giving us nothing but help. According to Gypsy, there's been this ongoing issue with Autumn for about half a year. And I try to keep quiet. I tried more. I tried multiple times to make peace with her and it was not working out. Um, and so Ken and I had been dealing with Autumn for the last six months of just her talking online on TikTok and saying things that weren't true about him, saying things that weren't true about us, claiming to have known any kind of inside information as to our relationship, and she knew nothing. Um, she made multiple claims that I tried to kidnap Parker and literally I'd be like laying right beside Ken. And here she is just spewing all of this lies and just bull online. And her followers just ate it all up, ate it all up. And then multiple videos came out. Oh, Ken Euchre's sister claims this. And yet people are going off of what she says just because she's related to him. Gypsy called out media outlets for favoring Autumn's side of the story over hers. So I just want to make a point that it's number one, disturbing how tabloids and media outlets picked up on her BS just because they were related. Um, instead of focusing on the fact that, you know, Chaya lost her father. I lost a partner. A mother lost her son. And it's disgusting to see a family member take this as an opportunity to cash in because she did make some money, um, to get to Louisiana. And she was never here. She was never here. I spent the entire time with Ken's family. We went to IHOP. They came here to, my apartment. Spent time with. Like, we gathered and was there as a family for each other. And then we don't, we didn't want to have to deal with Tara's, I mean, Autumn. She goes by Tara as well. Um, Autumn's bulls**t. And I just think it's absolutely disgusting. Gypsy ended this video by insinuating that Autumn is in it all for the money. And I'm finally speaking out about it, even though I just woke up and I look like a hot mess. I don't care. Um, I'm tired of being quiet. I'm going through the stages of grief. And I think right now I'm going through anger. So, this might be a video I might regret later. But as for right now, yeah, no. I'm grieving. And the people that actually loved him are grieving. And I haven't made a dime off of his death. Neither has his mother or any of the ones that really loved him. Autumn, on the other hand, Disgusting. Disgusting. So, that is where things stand as of now. But let's take a closer look through the legal lens. And for that, I want to bring on a favorite here on Scandal, one of the OG Scandal Squad. It's criminal defense attorney Safa Robinson. Safa, thank you so much for coming on. It's so great to see you. It's good to see you, Sierra. Okay, so Safa, what are your thoughts about the video that Gypsy just posted? I'm not surprised that she finally broke her silence at this point. Especially when she's facing accusations from her ex-fiancé's sister that sort of indicate or imply to some degree that she has some involvement with her fiancé or ex-fiancé's death at this point. And of course, that any. given time, you know, somebody is going to want to defend themselves, especially if things have reached social media and things of that nature. Now, of course, she does always need to be careful what she says. And I don't know if she has any legal counsel at this point with regard to it, but considering her past and her history, considering the nature of the death, I think that it's important to, yes, defend yourself, but not speak too much and too freely. But I'm not surprised here that she finally released that statement. And I can kind of understand, right? I mean, if I post a video for law and crime and people come attacking me, sometimes I have to stop myself from replying or posting a video to say, okay, I actually did the research. This is the motion. Here's why you're incorrect, whatever, getting in wars online. And I can understand Gypsy, who's legitimately a public figure here. If people are coming at her and she's saying, I'm grieving right now. This is a loss that no one expected. I'm really sad. I need to kind of clear the air. So I kind of get that part. But to your point about her having an attorney, do you think this is a good thing? I mean, I think it's a good thing. I think it's a good thing. She should have ran by her attorney. I don't think she said anything super incriminating or that could be liable for anything, but is that always kind of a good thing to do before posting? Considering that she is a public figure, I would absolutely say that that is a good thing to do before posting. And so, especially because of her past history, especially because we have these underlying tones where she may have, or people may allege that she had some involvement with his death. And so, I think it's a good thing to do before posting. And so, I think it's a good thing In situations like that, before you release any statements where law enforcement can take it as incriminating or use it to further their investigation, you're always going to want to run it by an attorney, especially if you're a public figure, especially if there's a death investigation involved. Yeah. And I mean, okay, so Gypsy, we have to talk about it. The elephant in the room, she is a convicted murderer. That's how we know her name is because she was convicted of murdering her mother. She didn't actually physically do it, but she coordinated it. She served her time. And so, I think it's a good But does that kind of raise the alarm for investigators? Now, again, she hasn't been listed as a suspect or a person of interest, nothing like that, just to be clear to the viewers. But if investigators are taking a look at the way that Ken died, would they kind of connect the dots and say, okay, he was with, at some point, this woman who's been convicted of a pretty serious crime? They're absolutely going to take a look at that. And more often than not, when you have a death investigation and that person is married or has a partner, boyfriend, girlfriend, relationship, and law enforcement is investigating it, and there's not a clear way of how that person ultimately died. And yes, we know here that there is an allegation of overdosing or possible suicide and things like that. But they are going to take that into consideration. And they're always going to look at the spouse first or the boyfriend or the girlfriend first when it comes to their investigation. And so, I think because of her criminal history, there is a heightened sense of, are we just going to view this as an overdose? Are we going to view this as an overdose? Are we going to just view this as, you know, dying by whatever manner of death that's to be determined? Or are we going to take a further look because we know that his partner at the time of death was a woman who has previously been convicted of murder and orchestrating the death of her own mother? So, law enforcement most definitely is going to be taking a look at that. And I guess I have to talk about Ken's sister, too. Her name is Autumn, and she has posted about Gypsy in the past, even prior to Ken's death. It didn't seem like she really liked her. But anyway, following Ken's death, she went on this TikTok live stream and she was kind of blasting Gypsy. And she said something really specifically. We have the exact soundbite in the episode, so this is me paraphrasing. But she says something like, you're not going to do to my brother what you did to Deedee, meaning her mother, which again, Gypsy was convicted of her mother's murder. So, I have to ask about that, too. This allegation that the sister is making, could that be any sort of defamation? It's certainly possible. I think that people have to be careful because if you say something that is untrue about a person and ultimately, you know, it damages their character and things of that nature, then you have to be mindful that there are implications of defamation that could come about. Spoken, you know, via video, we call that slander. And so, you want to basically ensure that you're not saying something that is untrue. Now, if it's a thought or if it's a belief and you have a basis for that thought or a basis for that belief, but if it's just blatantly wrong or it teeters on that, then you're going to want to be very careful with the statements that you make against somebody. And so, there are special carve-outs or caveats for public figures and things of that nature. Again, I think because of Gypsy Rose's history and past, his sister's probably saying something that a lot of people are thinking right now, or at least wondering. Yeah. And I have seen the discourse online that it's a mixed bag. Some people are saying, oh, Gypsy got another victim. Some people are saying, this is terrible. This is a tragedy. Let's leave Gypsy alone. So, you kind of see all ends of the spectrum on social media, pretty much in any case, but definitely in this one. And I think you're right. Just based on what she said, that one thing, I don't know if it rises to the level of any sort of lawsuit ahead, but I guess who's to say, because it does seem like they do have a bit of an ongoing feud. And we talked about how investigators would probably talk to Gypsy, which makes sense. I mean, they shared a daughter together. So, at the very least, we're exchanging together at one point. So, she definitely knows a lot about him. But Autumn, Ken's sister, is she someone that investigators would want to talk to as well? They will absolutely speak to her. And they're going to want to know the basis for her belief that Gypsy murdered her brother. If that is what is true, or that's what they're believing, or that's the allegation. And they're going to want to know why. They're going to want to know the nature of the relationship between Gypsy and her ex-fiance. They'll get that from the sister, at least from the sister's perspective. They'll also get the nature of the relationship between Gypsy and the sister. And anything that may have occurred that the sister witnessed, that law enforcement can use to formulate a belief that this is more than just an overdose, or more than just a suicide. So, they will absolutely be having a conversation with her. And a lot of this, at this point, the time of this recording, is speculation. Because we at Law & Crime have requested the autopsy, the toxicology, have not gotten any of that stuff back yet. It's still pending. And I guess that kind of leads into my question to you, Safa. This was October 1st was the date that he died. So, I'm sure the investigation started right away. We want to see what happened. But is it normal to, I think it's the 14th today, so two weeks. Is it normal for it to take about two weeks or even longer to get results like that? Oh, absolutely. It's very normal because the toxicology results, they take time to process, depending on the lab, depending on the type of tests that are done. A lot of times when you get toxicology, when toxicology is done at maybe the county crime lab, those will take some time to process. And I think that's a good thing. Sometimes I've seen in cases where they have the local crime lab doing the toxicology, but then they also ship the toxicology out to the FBI crime lab in Washington, D.C. And so, depending on who's doing the toxicology and if there's any further review of that, it could take longer. Now, my guess is that at some point, the body was brought to the medical examiner's office. They viewed the body, made the determinations of if there was any blunt force trauma, if it appeared that his injuries or cause of death was consistent with an overdose, and what an overdose looks like for whatever particular drug was used. They will all make that determination, but they will also test for alcohol, benzodiazepines, cocaine, any drug under the sun that could exist and be in his system. And that usually takes a while. I think it makes sense, too, because we always talk about the wheels of justice moving slowly. And the case log, I'm sure it's really backed up because if he comes in and there's 50 people ahead of him, okay, we have to finish all of those 50 tests before we move on to Ken. So, right now, it's kind of frustrating that we don't know, but I guess based on what you're saying and logistically, it makes sense we don't yet know. But what people are saying is that this is an apparent overdose. That's what Gypsy says. It just kind of seems to be out there. And so, let's just speculate and say that it was an overdose. Again, not confirmed, but let's just speculate. If he purchased these drugs from someone or if he got them, it was gifted them, however he got them, and they were illegal substances, could the person who provided these drugs then be charged in a criminal way? Absolutely, yes, they can. A lot of times what we're seeing now, especially with the uptick of fentanyl overdoses, is that prosecutor offices are going after drug dealers who are essentially selling drugs that are combined with cocaine and fentanyl, for example, and really prosecuting them to the fullest extent possible. So, I think that's kind of what we're seeing right now. Because fentanyl overdoses have been so significant in many communities right now, and it continues to be an issue. You're seeing fentanyl in marijuana, you're seeing fentanyl in cocaine, you're seeing fentanyl on its own, and we know the dangers of it, you know, overall, especially when it's in an environment not controlled by a doctor or prescriber. And so, prosecutors are really going after drug dealers. And I would expect that in the event that this was some sort of overdose or fentanyl or anything of that nature, they're going to further their investigation into where the source came from, who was involved in providing the drugs, even if it was, say, for example, again, this is an allegation and we're just speculating, but if it was his partner at the time or a friend at the time who provided the drugs to them, where that chain goes, where it started from, the drug dealer, who also played a role in that distribution of that particular drug to he who is now deceased. And I think we saw that with I think Matthew Perry and his dad, very similar. where the government has gone after a number of individuals who may be doctors or being involved in providing him those substances because it has become such a large issue. The fentanyl that when you're talking about it, it truly chills, gives me chills because I mean, it's just so scary that that could be in anything and people are accidentally overdosing and it's still, it just, it's, it's an epidemic. It really is. And I guess I have a question about this too, because let's say again, speculation, but somebody did provide this with Ken, let's just say, what would that person then be charged with? Could it be as severe as murder? Absolutely. And it depends on the state and it depends on the statute of the state, but there are prosecutor offices that are going after drug dealers and charging them with murder because they intentionally are selling these drugs in the market in the street. And those drugs have a combination of, again, cocaine or fentanyl or whatever may be in, in the drug in and of itself. You also, there's a possibility of charging an individual with manslaughter. So you recklessly cause the death of another because, you know, combining these substances, knowing the combinations and X, Y, and Z. So there's a lot of factors, but somebody could be charged with murder for sure. And that depends on the state, depends on the statutory requirement for that state, but absolutely. So in that case, it's possible that Gypsy Rose Blanchard could find out that Ken was a drug dealer and that Ken was a drug dealer and that Ken was a drug dealer and that Ken was a drug dealer. And so she could find herself in the midst of another murder investigation, even tangentially, because I'm guessing, I mean, I've talked to so many law enforcement officers on my show. And what do we always talk about? Our phones, because we have them with us at all times. So they're going to go through his texts, his call logs, Snapchat, DMs, whatever, whoever he's talking to, to see maybe did he purchase something or did somebody say, Hey, I'm going to drop this off, whatever. But through those texts, of course, we're going to hear from Gypsy. I mean, they, they had a relationship on and off. So could she then be part of this murder investigation? I don't know. Speculation, speculation, but okay. Let's talk about the last phone call. Cause Gypsy in her video, she revealed her last phone call with Ken. They were talking about his sister Autumn. Does this have any sort of merit in terms of the investigation? I don't think it's going to, I mean, I think what it shows is that they were a still in communication. And if the conversation is true and correct that they had, they were still at least comfortable and cordial enough to have conversations about other family members. So that would have established that they were at least on speaking terms may have been on good terms that there was no reason for her to attempt to have anything to do with an allegation of murder or anything like that. So that certainly is going to be something that would be taken into consideration. Now, none of us really know what that conversation was. There will be a record if that conversation did in fact exist and how long that conversation was, because I expect that they're going to pull his cell phone records and that would show and be consistent. But again, and we're also going to want to hear from the sister or the law enforcement officers are going to interview the sister and, you know, gypsy Rose can say, we had a conversation about the sister, you know, we're on bad terms. They weren't friends. They weren't cordial X, Y, Z. And the sister can say, Oh, well, really, you know, is that true? That that's not true because guess what? My brother and I were on the phone earlier that morning, or he just sent me a text that said, I love you, sis, you know? So all of those things are going to factor in and be looked at during the investigation. I feel like with any case, it's a, he said, she said, or in this case, she said, she said people have differing opinions about what happened or a different information. And I guess it's up to law enforcement to track down who said what, what's accurate. And we're still in the middle of all of this now, but it does seem it was an apparent overdose. It's possible that it was a mental health situation that he attempted to end his own life. And that kind of leads into my last question here, because gypsy has mentioned that Ken had been cyber bullied and she posted receipts about it. People online are ruthless all of the time, especially if you're a public figure, people can be really, really mean. So that's possible that he did have mental health struggles as a result. But if he then killed himself because of cyber bullying, is it possible that anyone could be charged? This to me seems kind of like a, a stretch because we'd have to track down the people. It could cross state lines. It could even be international. Does that just add to the layer of difficulty? It does add to the layer of difficulty. And I do think that it would be a stretch to charge somebody if you've got a thousand people that are under a post, you know, talking about this individual and bullying this person. I mean, are you going to go after all of those 1000 people or like, where does the rubber meet the road in cases like this? I think that unfortunately it's more likely than not that nobody will be charged if this was a cyber bullying situation, unless you have clear cut evidence that a person was specifically bullied by person A and the steps that person A did to mitigate the person, you know, cause that person so much mental turmoil and stress that is beyond what any normal person would do. Unless you have cold hard facts that, that support that, and that the person ultimately committed suicide as a result of that person, a specific act, I don't think that you're going to get any charges from it. Which is so sad because I think people just post things and they don't even think twice, but some people are on the other end reading them. And it can really affect them. And I think it's just overall, like if we're putting a bow on this interview, a tragic case, I don't even know when we'll have answers or if we'll completely have answers. There's a lot of question marks still. So Safa Robinson, thank you for coming on and kind of breaking down what we do know. Thanks Sierra for having me as always. Again, at the time of this recording, there has been no cause or manner of death publicly released in the death of Ken Urker. And that's where today's episode of Scandal leaves us for now. Thanks for watching. I'm your host, Sierra Gillespie. And I'll see you next time.