654: Gut Health, Hormones, and Strength: The Real Power Trio in Perimenopause with Dr. Christine Maren

[MUSIC] I hope you just hear that your 40s do not need to be a time of resignation. Like they can be a time of reclamation and reclaiming who you are and who you want to be in this world and using all the wisdom that we've earned in the last 40 whatever years to be the woman we want to be and the women we were meant to be. And focus on ourselves a little bit more. Welcome back to the Energized with Dr. Marisa Podcast. I'm your host, Dr. Marisa. And I'm here to help you rock your hormones, optimize your metabolic health, and feel energized in your body so that you can age powerfully and wake up feeling amazing in your body for many years to come. Let's jump on in. Have you ever had a moment where you pause and think, why do I feel like I'm working so hard just to feel okay? Your energy is unpredictable, your sleep doesn't restore you anymore, your patience is thinner, and your body feels unfamiliar. And the most unsettling part, no one ever warned you this was coming. Here's the truth, I wish every woman heard sooner. This isn't burnout, this isn't just aging catching up to you, and it's definitely not you failing your body. This is parryment-apause, and it changes how your metabolism, brain, blood sugar, and heart function. I wrote the parryment-apause revolution because I was living this too, doing all the right things and still feeling exhausted, foggy, and frustrated. This book isn't about pushing harder or waiting it out. It's about finally understanding what your body is asking for in midlife and using that information to protect your energy, your metabolism, your heart, and your health span for decades to come. Inside, I will show you why your body suddenly responds differently to food, stress, and sleep, how hormones quietly drive weight gain, fatigue, and brain fog, and how to turn this transition into a powerful reset, not a slow unraveling. And when you order the book now, you'll receive my exclusive parryment-apause power toolkit, which is worth over $500 full of practical tools to help you start feeling better now, not someday, because you deserve the best of things, not the least of things. So if you're done guessing and if you were done normalizing exhaustion, and if you're ready to work with your body instead of fighting against it, go and grab your copy, the parryment-apause revolution at drmaryset.com/book. That's drmaryset.com/book, because this isn't the end of your story. It's the moment you take the lead. You know, a few years ago, I remember standing in the middle of my kitchen. It's about two hours till dinner, and I was overwhelmed by everything that I needed to do that night, including going to the grocery store, prepping and making dinner, going through my two-year-olds nighttime routine, and then working for a couple of hours afterwards. Knowing full well that I didn't have the mental capacity or energy to get through any of it. And in that moment, I realized that I didn't recognize myself anymore. And I just had no idea how I was going to pull off all of that. In mind you, this was a Monday. There was still Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday. I felt like a shell of my former self. More so, I was struggling to understand what went wrong. See, I was eating clean. I was still on my autoimmune protocol, because I was still breastfeeding my son. I was working out for probably doing too much of it. I was running on fumes. I knew something had shifted. I was exhausted before the day even started. My sleep was a mess. My moods felt unpredictable. And no matter what I did, my body felt stuck. That moment was my perimenopause tipping point. And I didn't even have words for it yet. Honestly, I didn't even know it was perimenopause. I thought it was a myriad of other things. I thought it was my thyroid. I thought it was my stress. I thought it was overdoing it. And yes, it was probably those things too. But there's nothing like perimenopause to exacerbate a lot of the things that you have felt that you had under control. And it was like I had had all those things under control until I didn't. I just knew that something wasn't working for me anymore. And if you've ever found yourself in a similar place wondering what the heck is happening to me. Today's episode is for you. I want to welcome you back to the Energize with Dr. Marissa Pajas where we talk about all things hormones, metabolism, energy and becoming the CEO of your health. I am joined today by the incredible Dr. Christine Maren who I've been deeply inspired by on Instagram. She is a Bore Certified Functional Medicine Physician who knows first hand what it's like to juggle motherhood, medicine and perimenopause. In this conversation, we explore what really happens to your body during this transition, how your gut changes, your muscle changes, your resilience changes. But also what you can do to build it back, to build back the vitality during this profound transition. Especially as your hormones are fluctuating and your energy begins to shift. We talk about the power of lifting weights, the non-negotiable role of consistency in your daily habits. And why now is the moment? Like if you were looking for a sign that was impossible to miss, it is right now, not later, to make the changes to feel more alive in your body. Now while we touch on gut health, this episode is really about you and how small intentional lifestyle changes can create massive results and shifts when done consistently over time. So if you're ready to stop spinning your wheels and start feeling strong, clear and fully like yourself again, this episode is your invitation to shift into action with grace. Really on your terms. Let's dive in. Christine, it is so good to see you. So good to meet you. In person, I feel like I've been a voyeur watching you on social media for quite some time and dig it into your content. And I cannot tell you how much of an inspiration you are. And I feel like we are really on the same tandem track in so many ways. And the reason why I wanted to come and bring you onto the show is, again, because we're on the same track, you know, and I'm speaking to midlife women, I was speaking to Perry Metal Puzzle Women. I've watched you have this incredible, just phenomenal transformation in your Perry Metal Puzzle journey. And it's just what it feels like. It feels like a beacon of hope. And in a lot of ways, your track feels like a bit of a north star. And so that's why I wanted to have you on. I wanted you to share your story, your journey and how it's been going and some of the things that have come up, the roadblocks, maybe even the mindset, and then also the pivots you've made in feeling what looks like, feeling more alive in your body than you have in a long time. Yeah, all that's true. Thank you. That what you said means a lot. It has been a experience for sure. And I feel more like me and I love that. And F.S.I. can help inspire other women. I love that even more. It feels a little bit like my purpose. Like one of the things I'm so grateful for in my life is that I get to live and work in my purpose. And that means a lot to me. I love that. Yeah, I feel the same way. I get to live and work in my purpose. I always say I live to work, but I live to work in my purpose. Like every day, I'm just like, okay, how can I support more women? How can I get this message out? Right now I am extremely obsessed with this sneaky upgrade called exercise snacks. And I've just been trying to shoot it from the rooftops. Have you integrated exercise snacks in your way? I saw you post on that the other day. Like quick push up here, quick squats here, that kind of thing. Yeah, yeah. Exactly that kind of thing. I mean, I love the big workouts. And we're going to get into that as well. I did a 50 minute heavy lift early today to high-curge or fee. Right. I lifted as heavy as I could for six reps. And then I did five sets of those for 50 minutes. But not every day. One, I'm not training like that every day. And I don't think one should. But two, I can't get that in every day as a mom and a working mom at that. And so especially when I was working on my upcoming book, The Paralympos Revolution, the timeline to get that book done was four and a half months. It was the tightest timeline I've ever had. And I just go into the gym and the turnaround is an hour and 45 minutes, like door to door. I just didn't have it. And so I was like, okay, how do I rev up my heart rate? How do I bash these bones? How do I do some plios in like two to five minutes? And so I was looking at the research. And one of my dearest friends, Dr. Stephanie Estima, had just been talking about exercise snacks. And I was like, wait, what? You're telling me I could get this done in like two to five minutes, three to four times a day. And it is a actual, it's a workout when you do the math. And that that movement throughout the day, it is almost as equal to that big workout. And I was just like, sign me up. I know. Sign us all up. I'm going to be doing squats over here. Can I just do that right now? Yeah, right now. We could just do some squats. Are you standing? I love it. Do you have a standing desk? Oh, yeah. Oh, great. By the way, yeah, I'm always doing that. I'm just going to do, I'm just going to, there we go. Squat. So I am the one that I talk if you're with me, if we're ever at lunch or we're doing breakfast together, or even a matcha, I call it a buy-in, like a friendship. buy-in where we do basically 60 jump squats. So through of it. - 20. - So last night it was with a bunch of besties. We're having this beautiful organic taco restaurant. We grabbed to go and we met up at a house. And after we had dinner, I was like, all right, it's the buy-in. We all went out, let's stabilize our blood sugars. Everyone got up and we knocked out 60 jump squats. So and it's three minutes, literally. - It's so great. - 20 jump squats in a minute, three times, and you're done. And I've watched it on continuous glucose monitors on hundreds of women. And it's so fun to see their blood sugar just go back into range, after that post meal. And so I would just curious, if you were integrating any of these 'cause I know you are probably as busy as I am. - Yeah. - Three kids and a pregnant. - Yeah, way bigger than me. - Flood. - I just, I only have one. So I can't even, I don't know what it's like to have three, but I just assume it's one times three. You know, it's a lot. - It's a lot, it's a lot. - It is a lot. I mean, they're awesome. And it's a lot. Part of this, like if I rewind to what started this whole journey for me, gosh, there's so much, you know, I had mold. I mean, and we kind of talked about this offline for a minute, but I had a lot of mold in my past and mold trauma and my youngest daughter flited her house. And I call that my clatic, cataclysmic event. It was terrible. It sent me into a tail spin, and I was already in this very like hyper-vigilant state. And that was the thing that made me go to therapy, 'cause I was like, what the? Like I just, I spilled glass of water and I'd be like, that was it. - Really anxious about that. - It was not fun. - You were hated. - Yeah, I mean, part of that, just unpacking life in feelings and all of that. I also got to a point of like, overwhelmed. My life was a lot. I have three kids. My husband's a surgeon. There's a lot going on. And there came a point where my friend was like, why, how about instead of complaining, not necessarily complaining, but like saying all the things you don't want, why don't you focus on the things you do want? Refraise it. And I'm like, yeah, okay. So what I want instead of talking about like, I don't wanna do this and I don't wanna do that. And I don't wanna like have to complain about whatever. I started thinking like, okay, what I want is somebody at home to help me with things. I need somebody to help me make all the kids lunch. It's do all their laundry, unpack all those Amazon boxes sitting on my front porch. And so now we have somebody who comes in the afternoons and helps me. I get it. I am like so grateful and privileged to have that. And it has just been a game changer in my life and in my family's life because there's really less resentment because there's somebody else helping us. I think women, we tend to take on so much in our house, especially for working. And so it doesn't really leave a lot of time for us and for whatever we need and for going to the gym and working out, but she is my angel and she is the reason that I can go and work out. - I love that so much. I've had a house manager in the past. But right now I have obviously childcare, an anani who is just phenomenal. It makes a world of difference. Absolutely, I'm paying for childcare so that I can go to the gym. Yeah. And knowing that someone that I love and I trust is taking care of my son, why I take care of me is a game changer. I feel very blessed and very privileged to have that. And I don't know if I could, I don't know if I could do the things for myself if I didn't have that support. So I think it's important that we talk about that because I was walking through my house this morning and I cannot tell you how much stuff was out everywhere and the alarm bells were going off of just like the house is screaming at me right now. - Yeah. - Totally. - Okay, so yeah, I have mold drama. I've took us six months to, it's real. To read, to remodel or renovate our home last year. And I also got a therapist at the time an internal family systems therapist. But I also started reading or listening to romantic fantasy books. - Oh, nice. Get your mind off of things. - And I have listened to, full vulnerability and full, I don't know if anyone's gonna be like, I can't believe this. I have now, I've probably consumed 150 of these books said at this time. This was last year. - That's amazing. - I should probably take that up. I don't know, I haven't done that yet. - Yeah. - It's mold is does a number on your system, right? Like, yes, it's not good for your immune system and all of the things when you're in mold. And the amount of dysregulation it causes to a nervous system when you actually like take somebody's physical home and say, this isn't safe, is no joke. - Yeah. - How long I was cute? We were out of our house for probably a total of three months. Yeah. We were out of our house for nine months. We didn't just do, it's sort of all, it was just a mess, but we were playing and doing like a small kitchen remodel and then this flood happened and it ended up turning into a really big project. So now I'm in it, like my house is beautiful. I love it. I'm honestly so glad all that happened and unfolded the way that it did. And it's one of those pieces where you're like, "Oh, God, this sucks." And it was for my highest good. - Yeah, I was, yes, now I agree. Yeah, my house doesn't look any different. - Yeah, yeah. That's the worst stuff, right? Like my crawl spaces, we spent a lot of money on these crawl spaces. Would you like to see them? They're really beautiful and super clean. They're all encapsulated. Like remodeling your crawl spaces, like that sucks to put your money into that. But- - Yeah, no, it's a really beautiful very clean crawl space if you'd like to come over and check that out sometime. - I love that. I travel to Miami and to Austin and I'm hypersensitive descent and I couldn't believe how much clone and perfume everyone wore. And I realized like how clean and safe my house is now. That I can be in it. It's really, it feels good. My HRB is good. All my biomarkers look great and everything is fine. And then I step into the real world. And I'm like, "Oh, gosh, this is an assault to my system." And so what I realize is I am deeply grateful for how safe my house is at this moment. And I love where we are. We're just a block away from the beach. And so I can go to the movies. - Yeah, totally. Yeah, it is, I have the same feeling. I am so grateful. And whenever I go stay at an Airbnb, I'm like, they got mold there, there, there, and there. And I also, at this point, I'm resilient enough where I can like, all right. I can handle some of it. I don't like to. You know, I'd really prefer to stay at an Airbnb where there's not like fragrances everywhere and like, you know, all the things and potentially mold behind their shower, but it is what it is. - No, it is what it is. And I was curious, you know, and I know we're gonna get into your Pariamet Apostle journey. But when you're traveling, are you taking, are there supplements that you're taking with you to help support? - At home, I feel very resilient. Like, but there's a lot of things that I build in to ensure that I am. And when I'm traveling, it's not as easy to do that. And so I have found that, especially when I'm really turning and burning very quickly, so I can get back to my son as fast as humanly possible. There's no downtime. It should go, go, go. And I have found that my mitochondria doesn't love it. And so I am, I definitely am supplementing up a little bit harder to help support my mitochondrial risk. - Yeah. You know, when I travel, it's usually a lot of like immune support and dietary support. I do a lot of like mega IGG 2000 and some like extra mega spore and I'll bring binders kind of depending on where I'm traveling between meals. But for me, it's more food. Like being off my routine of eating what's clean and in my house upsets my gut sometimes. But generally, like I might bring glutathione and binders when I travel, but the reality is I don't that much. I just try to get outside and you know, open windows and that sort of thing. - Yeah, I always bring, I bring glutathione on. I bring binders, I bring a little bit of antioxidant support and then I bring some brain support too. Like usually some type of phospholipid support. Just to kind of reduce the inflammation in my brain because I find that that's where I'm the most sensitive. And then yeah, I do my best to avoid really smelly Uber and lift cars man to smelly hotels that spray perfume and whatever they're spraying all over us. - Yes. - Yeah. So just curious what you were doing to kind of support. So if anyone's like more highly sensitive, particularly when they're traveling, whether it's planes. And yeah, I have sometimes I wear the mountain spring water, like bottled water to the hotel room and then make sure that I'm picking up either traveling with snacks. Whereas a mom, I feel like all moms know how to travel with snacks and then make sure that I'm going to the grocery store and buying things. Yeah. - So let's talk, I'm going to pivot to your, the start of your perimenopausal journey. Did you initially know it was happening? Did you kind of, no, I had to do any of us. - No, absolutely not. Well, I find it initially it feels like the daily pain points of everyday life, but just a little bit more amplified. - Yeah. - I mean, it really coincided with all this stuff going on with my house, which was super stressful in part because of insurance stuff. So I started having sleep disruption, which was really new for me, but it just never really went away. Like it never got better. And then I, it also, you know, was around COVID and I wore yoga pants for two years and then I put my pants back on and I was like, oh my gosh, like these things do not fit. None of my clothes fit. What is going on? And that part was just really frustrating. Like, I don't want to shop for all new clothes. I want to fit into my clothes. So that just kind of snuck up, right? And then, you know, I was like a little bit more irritable. My gut was definitely a mess. And it was like some stuff had surfaced again. And I thought like, well, maybe this is just stress or maybe it's, you know, I didn't know. Now in retrospect, I'm like, oh yeah, I can put it all together. I can look at my cycles that were like, you know, I wear an order ring and I could track and see like, oh yeah, that 25, 24 day cycles. Like that was parimenta pause. I just didn't, it was also, you know, I'm 45 now. So I think this all started for me when I was probably around like 39-ish. You know, I started really moving toward that. So yes, in retrospect, I can identify it all. But it took me a while to figure that out. Yeah, yeah. I just wanted to thank you so much for speaking into that because I think a lot of us are like, is this, is this? Yeah. And often, you know, I, and I think probably with a lot of your patients, definitely with mine and even in my own journey, that I have other compounding issues. A hundred percent. And so I'm like, oh, is this just my thyroid? Maybe I need to tight-frate my medication or, ooh, am I burning myself out again? Or I was like, you know, I kept trying to, I felt like it was a moving target. And I'm like, okay, it must be one of these things that it's been before. Yeah, I mean, I think it's all of them, right? And perimenopause just makes it all the more important to address any underlying issues. But yeah, any underlying issues really have a tendency to rear their ugly head during perimenopause. Yeah, exactly. It's like, you thought you had dealt with it now with the per-review again. And it's like, that is why HRT is not the magic bullet. I love HRT. I'm a huge advocate for it. And it doesn't fix everything. No, it doesn't fix everything. I do feel like it can give you enough of a spark to move in the direction of lifestyle, like the lifestyle medicine aspects that we all know we should do, but sometimes struggle to do. Yeah. Because I was talking to another expert and I was saying about how, you know, HRT isn't going to lift the weights for you. It's not going to get you to the gym or it's not going to walk you outside. But she had pointed out like it actually, it could potentially get you to the gym. Yeah. I was like, could help your mood and your motivation. I can help you sleep better so you can actually work out because sleep is really the first priority. It helps you feel like yourself again and get you back to like a better baseline. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. I mean, I think it's a huge and really important tool. No, I agree. And I will say that between HRT, which I'm on, and the lifestyle strategies that I've implemented, the thing that has made the biggest difference is the consistency of my lifestyle strategies. That has been like as long as I'm able to stay consistent in those, like again, honoring my sleep, going like wake up time, go to bed time, movement, how I eat, stress management, to me movement. Movement's been huge for me. I would say that that's been my magical liquor, hence the exercise next. But just moving outside, just being outside of nature, walking has been a game changer for me. But it's been those things that has helped me to feel more alive and more metabolically healthy in my body. And HRT has just kind of been least for me, the cherry on top. Yeah. I would agree with that. It's hard to know though. I think would I have been able to gain as much muscle if I wasn't on HRT? I don't think so. I think it's been like the magical combination of doing HRT plus strength training and like, you know, estradiol supports your muscle proteins synthesis and helps you actually build muscle. So yeah, I think it's, I talked to patients and I say it's like a bonfire and you got to like take all these logs out of the fire. You know, you can't just go gluten free. It's kind of like that in period menopause. You can't just at HRT like you also got to work on your diet and your sleep and lift weights and move your body. Yeah. What were some of the pivots when you kind of realized when you were in that obviously it's I know it and I wanted to speak into the complexity because when I went into when I realized I was fully in period menopause at the time I'd hired a trainer who completely obliterated me. Like I knew better. I signed up for like a 48 session package and I was like, I'm going to finish this. I finished what I start the halfway through. I was like, Oh gosh, like I kept on the other side. Also, okay, I got to cut the workouts over here. I just had to keep making concessions that I just did you myself into the ground by the end of this journey. I was like, and then that's when we realized we had mold. And so by the end of this journey, I was like, Oh gosh. And but also I had this consistent rage every month at the same time and I was like, Oh, this is pregnant. And so but there was a lot of conflicting situations, health situations going on in my body. And I think that that's the case for all of us. As you mentioned, but when you kind of teased out, Okay, this is also a paramedic pause. What were some of the pivots that you made that kind of made the biggest difference for you that you're like, I am doubling down on this and I am going to be I'm going to continue to do this because the juice is worth a squeeze. Yeah, totally. You know, I think it starts with mindset and it starts with how you talk to yourself and what kind of time you carve out for yourself. So kind of going back to that conversation earlier, hiring somebody to help me with things. But really like giving myself what felt a little bit indulgent at the time of like, I'm going to the gym for an hour four times a week or I'm going to track my macros. Like that was a lot for me to confront actually because to me, that felt a little bit to indulgent. It wasn't triggering a disorder needing which in some of my patients, we don't track macros because it might trigger some things. For me, that wasn't it. It was more that it felt too self-indulgent. And so I had to work past that and get past that and get to a point in my life and go, yeah, all right. So what if it's like feels like that's okay. What's wrong with self-indulgent anyways? And do some work around like self-love and worthiness and all of this kind of stuff. Out of my patients are high achieving, high performing women. We do a lot. We take on a lot and it can be obvious or not obvious, but so many women put their needs on a back burner. And I just had to stop doing that. Yeah. So really started there. I doubled down on the gut health piece. That's for sure. I'm like, I got to figure like what is going on here. And then again, this is where I think that HRT played a really big role in improving my gut health. I mean, yeah, I removed the infections, but I also think HRT played a role. And did you bring those in? Curious 4041? Yeah. I started HRT when I was, I think it was 41, maybe 42. Yeah. And initially, you know, this gut health piece is not new. I mean, this has been, my gut is my greatest teacher. And I learned a lot through my own gut health and obviously all the patients I work with. But yeah, I mean, the gut health piece was not new, but I felt like I was chasing stuff. And it was like, stuff was like popping up and, you know, I had fungal overgrowth and bacterial overgrowth. And I'm like, what is up? And I was just super bloated. And now what I know, like based on the literature and parimonopause and what happens with our gut microbiome and what we can do to improve our gut microbiome and, you know, particularly the gut infections like hydrogen sulfide and parimonopause can be a big deal. We know women in parimonopause tend to get more hydrogen sulfide overgrowth. And I found that in myself. And, you know, I was like, oh, my God, all that broccoli I'm eating is like great for my hormones. And it's terrible for my gut. It's just too much. Like I got to pull back. So I had to sort of figure out like a better diet now in a lot more resilient. I can eat broccoli, but I don't eat like two heads broccoli. And just understanding like from the dietary perspective, what do I need to do? I'm not like a huge fan of super restrictive diets. I feel like they cause a lot of stress. Like, yeah, I'm gluten free. And I'm, you know, kind of dare like avoid processed dairy. I eat really good whole foods. And I'm not perfect. And I could just never bring myself to do like an autoimmune paleo diet or something like that. It's just too restrictive for me. But yeah, I was like mostly following a paleo style diet. And you know, I made some adjustments to my nutrition for sure. What I realized with my nutrition was, yes, pull back a little bit on the broccoli, but that wasn't like the main thing. The big thing was more protein, which we all know, but really paying more attention to it and being more intentional about like getting more protein throughout the day and figuring out what that looked like for me. So it was a really slow kind of phase and a slow evolution. I was pretty gentle with myself. I didn't like change things overnight. But I worked toward more protein, so getting like 120 grams of protein a day. And I worked toward getting more fiber, which meant also getting more complex carbohydrates. Like I do things now that I never thought I would do. And they always giggle about it a little because it's such a charged topic when we talk about oats in our community. Oh my gosh. Absolutely. You know, people are like, have a lot of things to say about oats. But I eat oatmeal in the morning, which is like wild to me, but it fuels my workouts. I also lift a lot of weights and my blood sugar is awesome, but I eat way more carbs than I used to eat and I eat way less fat than I used to eat. So the amount of fat that I was consuming was, it's all healthy fat, right? Obacato, nut butter, olive oil, but it adds up. And it also can cause more digestive symptoms. So I learned how to pull back on fat and increase my carbs, mostly good complex carbs, like whole fruit and oats and potatoes. And that change has been really good for me. I love this. I got it. It sounds so controversial. I'm kidding. It is, right? Yeah. Okay. I'm curious, because I know women are thinking, okay, my gut health. And we definitely know that with declining hormones, our gut microbiome is going to change. And so did you want a GI map test or did you kind of look? Or was it okay? So I ran a GI map. I ran an oat test also. I like organic acid testing a lot. Yeah. So I, I mean, I ran tests to see where I was and it was, this wasn't new. Like I had done these tests before. I keep tracking them, I follow them. And yeah, for me personally, I have had fungal overgrowth, which is in part because of mold, when you get exposed to mold, mold colonizes everything, include your sinuses and your gut and all that kind of stuff. So also, I'm like, what about my immune system is not working here. Like my immune system should be knocking this out. What's up? So that's also part of the mindset piece is how much your immune system is influenced by the way you talk to yourself and that inner voice. And don't get me wrong. Like I was not like when I look back on my 30 something self, I wasn't like really hard on myself. I never, you know, spoke negatively about myself, which is something I witnessed often in patient visits. People have a lot of this bully voice, you know, behind them. And I didn't really feel that way. That didn't really like land for me. I didn't feel, see myself talking myself that way. But I did see like, oh, yeah, you're really asking yourself to do a lot here. And you're taking on way too much. It's over responsibility. And yeah, like, what, why don't you deserve some rest? What's that about? And so really refraining that is like, you don't need to work for rest. You deserve rest. That's OK. So that was a lot of my work. I love that. Yeah, I was thinking, and I agree. I mean, the immune system is very responsive to how we tend to ourselves. And so did you find that in your gut healing journey, was it more how you were eating or did you bring-- I'm assuming, especially when you have fungal overgrowth, you need to bring-- Yeah. --heavy duty. I brought in the heavy duty guns. Yeah. I mean, I love nutrition as foundational supplements can be helpful. And I like to prescribe medication in certain instances. So yeah, I used antifungals. I also used medication to treat Cibo. So Cibo, small intestine bacterial overgrowth, as I'm sure you know. But that's a really incredibly common cause of bloating and gas belching, loose stool or constipation, IBS kind of symptoms in patients. And for me, that really flared also in paramanopause. It was just like the return of all the problems. Yeah. So I used-- I used all of the things. I used supplements. I used nutrition. I used medication. OK. Awesome. I love that. Yeah, I just wanted to break down. Like, well, let it-- it looked like for you to start to heal your gut microbiome. And like I said, this is not your first rodeo. One, you do this every day with patients, but also this has been your journey. Yeah. And it's no surprise that there's some flare-ups that happened not only with the mold journey, but also with paramanopause, which is no things are going to shift. Yeah. We know things are going to shift. And we just have to be prepared to address it and get better answers than birth control pills. That's like my big-- it's one I keep preaching because birth control pills-- that they heal you're going to die on. Yeah. Kind of. I mean, birth controls to treat paramanopause symptoms. I'm like, that's one thing if you need contraception and we can have a conversation about ideal contraception, still would not be my choice. But like, you know, whatever. Birth control pills to treat paramanopausal symptoms. Like, why are we doing that? It can be a mess with your gut microbiome. Yeah. Doesn't help your symptoms that much. It just shuts down your ovaries and replaces them with these synthetic estrogen and synthetic progestins, which have risks. So yeah, I'm not a fan of that for women in paramanopause. I think we can do better. Oh, we can absolutely do better. I call it lazy medicine. Yeah. Lazy bikini medicine. For some reason, we are still under the impression that these reproductive hormones are not whole body hormones. They're just affecting our ovaries, our uterus, and our boobs. Yeah. Right. And so we'll just shut it off. And there's a time and place. Like, listen, if patients are on birth control pills and they really want to keep taking them, I will support them through that. But it's just not my, you know, there's a time and place for everything. Like maybe endometriosis. They can be helpful in that case. But yeah, not my favorite. No, I was talking to, I was on an event over the weekend and I was talking to a woman who just came up to me and she was like, yeah, talk to me about your menstrual cycle being a vital sign. She's like, because I've been on the Marina IUD for 15 years. And the way that it was marketed to her, because I'm a big, I am a proponent of informed consent. Like, tell me all the things that I'm signing up for with this progestin. And she was like, you know, it's just my period, my cycle's inconvenient. And they were like, this will turn it off. And I was like, I hear that. And I get that that's the marketing. It sounds very appealing. I mean, if you knew nothing about your menstrual cycle, so many of us never didn't know, turning off this inconvenience every month, I can see the appeal. If we didn't understand how mission critical these hormones were, to rhythmically cycle every single month, for a reason. Right? And, you know, she's like, I don't even know what it would feel like to even have a cycle anymore. And I was like, well, I do appreciate that. And, you know, I wish you would have been more informed about what it meant to turn off those hormones, those whole body hormones, and what the implications of that is over time, particularly as you step into paramedic pause. Like, you won't even know when you're in medipause because you'll be on this progestin. And so, I really do appreciate you speaking out on that as well, because the second woman start talking about paramedic puzzle symptoms, that is always the answer. Is, you know, a marine IUD or a mini pill, a progestin or something like that? Or a birth control pill, like the combined oral contraceptives are what I see a lot, which those are the ones that I would really like stay away from. I think in IUD, it's like, yeah, it's not my favorite, but it is, if you need contraception, like, there's certain cases where I'm like, just keep it in, like, it's gonna work for certain things. And some women will still ovulate with it sometimes, but yeah, it's like, are trying off our cycles is not. - I'm like, right into the wheels fall off. - Yeah. - Or bring on HRT, like, give me the real stuff. I was like, I had to choose between the fake stuff. I was, you know, I told you I was interviewing Dr. Musum out of the UK yesterday, and she likened it to real strawberries compared to strawberry candy. - Great. - That's the difference we're talking about. Like, real strawberries, like, real bioidentical HRT versus whether synthetic HRT or birth control, right? Which is always synthetic. She's like, it is, do you want the fiber and the actual nutrients and the antioxidants and the fight on all the things that you get from me in a strawberry? Or do you want high fruitose points or up? - Right. Totally. Yeah, it's analogous. I would say that too. - Yeah. And so when I was talking to this woman, I was like, I want the real stuff. And I want my hormones. I want them all the way to the very freaking end. And I don't want to suppress any of it because I just know that's going to future prove me. Meant into my 50s, 60s and beyond. - Yeah. - And I think it's that conversation where, oh, well, this is convenient. I'm like, yeah, but at a cost. - Right. Exactly. And that's the decision making I have in my practice where I'm like, it's not always like natural versus not. Natural is not, you know, always the best frame for making decisions. It's really risk versus benefit. So like, what's the risk and what's the benefit? Like weigh those because sometimes it makes sense to use a pharmaceutical, I was talking about with gut health. It depends what the risk looks like. But when we're talking about birth control on HRT or like, well, risk and benefit of HRT, risk and benefit of birth control. Like, oh my gosh, the scales are so obvious in that case. - Well, and that's the interesting, you know, the conversation around, it's absolutely okay to put a woman in her mid 40s on a hormonal birth control, whether it's combination pill or it's any version of a synthetic hormonal birth control, all the way to 53 or 54, right? And we're talking higher dosage here for most of the time, but not okay to put women on bioidentical hormone replacement therapy at substantially lower dosage, which I argue that that isn't always so helpful. If it's too low of a dose in their mid to late 40s, walking into mental pod. - 100% - 100% - Yes. - It's like, it just hate here, but it's not okay here. - It's just 'cause doctors are, you know, we're more comfortable prescribing birth control. We've done it over and over. I mean, I haven't, but I mean, most doctors have. And so then when it comes to HRT, there's this other kind of frame of like, oh, what happened? And it's just all the misinformation behind HRT, but it really is this like unfairness where you're like, wait, why? Why? Just as you said, would we think birth control was a good idea, but not HRT? And then in that same way, I've had patients say, like, oh, I can't take HRT and I say, why? And they say, well, I have factor five lightened. I'm like, so does 50% of the population. That doesn't mean you can't have transdermal estrogen. Did you ever screen for factor five lightened when you were started on a birth control pill? - Right. - 'Cause I wish they would have screened for that because the amount of women who come up to me after I speak at an event and say, I was her. I was that woman who had the birth, or the blood clot on birth control pills because I started taking birth control again in my 40s. And I'm like, yeah, it's just, it is a rare rare side effect, but it still happens like enough time. So yeah, I mean, yes, they're very, they're held to very different standards. - And then like you mentioned, I mean, what this, we started this conversation with the impact that it has on the gut microbiome, but also in depleting key nutrients. - Yeah, as well. - Totally. - Yes, yeah. - Yeah, so at the very least, if you're gonna be on, if you, the decision to stay on hormonal birth control, is you really need to supplement up. - Yeah, totally. Yeah, I mean, it's just the, yeah, contraception is the tricky part. And of course, I respect and encourage and want women to have the reproductive freedom. And unfortunately, some of the options that we have do us more harm than good and my favorite form of birth control is of a sect to me. So. - Amen. - Amen. I mean, you know, if that's an option for you, you don't, you know. Yeah, there's a company called Natural Cycles that yeah, that I absolutely love. And then they're practically, you know, I think they're it's as efficacious as hormonal birth control. I think it's like a 98% you know, in terms of protection from getting pregnant. And so, you know, there we have other means and I know that there's, we're hopefully coming up with better ones. And you know, women always ask me, well, what do you do? Because I started on hormonal birth control when I was younger, forced symptom management when I was like 19 and they put me on the depabarral because I was convinced that that, you know, turning it off was the move. And it was the most nightmarish experience of my life. I lasted seven or eight months, give or take. And then it took me almost a year and a half to get my cycle back. And then it was like never again. But then at 31, I got on a copper IUD lasted six months because I was like, okay, never again. And, but I thought copper, you know, would be better because there was no hormones associated with it. But man, my body was like, no, it's a full body. No. Yeah. And but then somehow managed to not get pregnant until I was 41 or 40 years old. I thought I mean like, yeah, I'm able. And I'll say too, you like, you got to be more careful as you get more healthy. Like as your body gets healthier, you might get pregnant easier here, which is how I have three. How are you? So, just stick to that. I remember when I was writing about this a lot on social women, I'm like, well, what did you do? What are you doing? I'm like, condoms? Like, I just, you know, I was like, we know we have other options. I just a lot of us, you know, even if it's under the kind of maybe you're not even noticing the types of symptoms or low grade symptoms when you're on or side effects, when you're on these types of pills and medications, you know, they're there for a lot of women. And so anyway, it just, luckily, I was really grateful for the kind of alarm bell experiences that I had with hormonal birth control. But I cannot tell you how much I also love bioidentical hormone replacement therapy and how much of a game changer that has been. And so, especially if you're in period med-aposit midlife and you got the choice between birth control to mitigate symptoms or HRT to mitigate symptoms, I just feel like the answer is so freaking clear and easy choice. It's an easy choice. Take the real stuff, get the real stuff. And if your doctor's like, well, I just don't do that, won't get another doctor. Yeah. Okay, talk to me about your, I want to hear, obviously, I would love you anything else I want to share about the gut. But also, I want to hear about you lifting weights. Yeah. Yeah, we can get into me lifting weights. I mean, I went back to the gym regularly. I was just kind of like doing Peloton, like COVID happened. I was grateful for my Peloton at home because I could do that. But I come from an exercise background. I used to be group fitness instructor actually back through college. That was my job. I always loved going to the gym. And then, you know, I had three kids and moved around the country a bunch of times. Like it was just busy. And so workouts were sort of on the back burner. I would go sometimes, but not always. And sometimes I'd miss it. And a lot of times I'd miss it because I'd start working. And then I just like miss my time at the gym. And then that was it. And so really it had to come down to a point of me sitting down at the beginning of the year and saying like, thinking through like, what are my goals this year? And like, this is the year I really want to get stronger. And part of the reason, part of the motivation behind that was I have a herniated disc in my back. And I had started seeing a physical therapist. And she's like, you really got a strength in your back and your core, your axial muscles to support your neck. And so I knew that was a big piece of it. And I knew, you know, for my own fitness and longevity. And that that was going to be important for me. I guess I was hoping for a transformation where I'd fit back into my clothes. But that wasn't like the main, you know, motivator. But yeah, I mean, I started working with a personal trainer initially. And that was still a little bit like piecemeal. You know, personal trainers are great for helping you with form and making sure you know how to use these different machines or lift weights in a way where you're not going to, you know, lift up, you know, too much with your traps. And you're going to use your lower back and engage the right muscles and all that kind of stuff. So the problem with that is that model means that every time you go see a personal trainer, you've got a different workout that you're going to do with them. They don't really use progressive overload. And so what I tell my patients is see if you can, you know, if you don't know what you're doing at the gym, great, go see a personal trainer, have them watch your form, like let them introduce you to this equipment. So you know how to use it safely. And then what you want is, you know, let's say you're working out three days a week or four days a week. You're going to have four workouts. So like a workout, A, B, C, and D. And you're going to do that. Whatever day's fits in with your schedule. For me, it was Monday, Tuesday, Thursday, Friday. But you know, if I couldn't do a Thursday, do a Saturday or Sunday, like you can move it around. It's okay to be flexible with that. But I would repeat workout A every week for about six weeks. Same thing with workout B. And so every time you go back to the gym, you know what you're going to do because you did it last week. So it makes you more efficient. You get better with your form because you're not like moving around like you just get used to these movements. Your form gets better. You can utilize progressive overload, which is just a fancy way of saying more reps or more weight every week. So I use an app to track. And so I know last week, I used 15 pound dumbbells this week. I'm going up to 17 and a half or whatever it is. And yeah, so every six weeks, you know, my workout would change. And I have somebody who like a coach who's kind of programming that for me online. She doesn't even live here. She's not watching me do my workouts. I was comfortable enough in the gym to do it that way. It's going to be different for everybody. But if you can work with a trainer, I would say the ideal is like, Hey, trainer, help me like introduce me to all these workouts or all these exercises. And then give me a program that I can do on my own for six weeks. And then or maybe it's even four weeks. Like if you want to do a shorter chunk of time, that's fine too. You do the same thing for four weeks and then come back versus changing up your workout every single week. Yeah. No, I agree. Or every single every other day. Yeah, I totally especially when you're going to a fitness class. Yeah, it's just going to be a different, a totally totally different thing. Yeah. If especially for us in midlife where muscle, I always say muscle is the ultimate currency. Yeah. Like it is about that progressive overload over and, you know, basically lifting to hypertrophy. So you're actually breaking that muscle down to build muscle. Yeah. And so that is exactly how I train as well. But there was times where every week, the trainer had different things that the classes were different. I'm sick. I'm not getting I'm here and I'm showing up and I'm not getting the results that I want. And honestly, the moves are the exercises are not that complicated. Like you said, and you're kind of doing the same thing over, you know, every other every single week. So like for me, it's upper body, lower body, you know, and push and pulls. And there are programs out there everywhere that can help you do that. You know, you can really, you really get the results you're looking for. And so I feel like you've definitely that that's been that's what happened. Yeah. I mean, it was a combination. I didn't when I signed up for this. I didn't expect to change my diet so drastically because I thought it was eating really well. Actually, I was eating whole foods. I was honestly a little like, ooh, I don't, I don't want to change what I'm eating. You want me to eat oats? Yeah. Right. Like that's a joke. And then slowly, I adopted some changes and I started eating more carbs and eating more protein. And of course, all that supported my muscle gains. So, you know, it's like this, this combination of like strengths training more, eating the right nutrition and getting more carbs and getting more protein. And HRT. I think all of those things really helped me build muscle and just helped with body recomposition. Love it. I love it. Yeah. And I mean, everyone's going to have their own starting point where they start. And I agree with you. Get a personal trainer just to show you how to do the moves, how to have good form. And then you can create a program from there. Yeah. Anything else was sleep? You said sleep was an issue as well. Yeah. Sleep was sleep suffered and HRT fixed it. So, you know, what's really cool actually is I used to wake up at night to pee. And I didn't really think that much of it because I got right back to bed and it wasn't super disruptive. But now I don't do that anymore. But it's because of estrogen. So I'm a huge fan of vaginal estrogen. I talked to patients about all the time. What I didn't realize was how much it affects your ability to just hold more urine. I mean, we know it helps with tone. It helps with prevention of UTIs. It helps with sexual function and lubrication all of that as well. But it also helps with the condense piece. I don't wake up to pee anymore. So, you know, vaginal estrogen, systemic estrogen, oral progesterone, all that was super helpful. The other big factor I didn't mention but with nutrition, my coach asked me, can you stop drinking alcohol? I'm like, sure. That's not hard. I mean, I can totally stop drinking alcohol. Now that I think of it, every time I drink alcohol, my oral ring would tell me like, I'm about to die. And I wasn't drinking a ton of alcohol, you know, like two glasses of wine and everything turned red. And so I really didn't drink that much anyway. So stopping it was not hard either. But I think, you know, for so many women who are so health oriented and still drinking like a couple glasses of wine or a glass of wine every night, just don't be fooled in thinking that this is healthy for you or that it's doing you any favors. It's not. And you don't have to be perfect about it. Like, if I want to have a drink when I'm in Paris, I'm going to have a drink when I'm in Paris, like whatever. But it is definitely not a part of my daily routine. And I am definitely not preaching that alcohol has any health benefits. No, no, you know, when I've talked to Dr. Kristen Holmes, who runs, you know, kind of the VPR performance for Woop. And she's got millions of data points. She can tell you from the death. That's awesome. Yeah. Alcohol is going to thank you. Even if you think alcohol is relaxing you enough to get a good night's sleep, your biometrics, your HRV, your resting heart rate, the battery, your sleep quality, all of it tanks. Yeah. All of it tanks. And it's, she's seen it over and over and over again. And particularly for us as women, you know, not only do we not do as well with alcohol in general, but as we move into paramedicons, it gets worse. Yeah. It gets so much worse. And there's reasons for that. We know. I mean, one of the factors, if we go back to gut health, there are some really important points about estrogen and how it affects your gut health. So one of them is it decreases your gut microbiome, but estradiol helps with estrogen permeability. Alcohol breaks it down. Estrogen also in parimenopause, depending on where you're at, it can cause surges of histamine. Or when your estrogen surges in relationship to predestine, you can have this high histamine. And high histamine can cause like allergy kind of symptoms or itchy skin and hives. It can also cause headaches and migraines and or sleep because it's an excitatory neurotransmitter. And so alcohol only worsens any underlying histamine issues. And probably is a big part of the reason why that one or two glasses of wine doesn't let you sleep anymore. Like how many women in parimenopause are like, if I drink more than one glass, I can't sleep. Or I'm going to wake up in the middle of the night. So yeah. I also think it deregulates blood sugar. It causes more liver congestion. I mean, it just also it's carcinogenic. Yeah. It's a clot. It feels a lot like cigarettes, you know? Yeah. It drives significant oxidative stress for the person. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah. So we are obviously it's a no go. And if you haven't tabled it, definitely decrease it. Yeah. And just see how you feel. Yeah. If you're wearing or ring or wearing a whoop strap, check out see, see your bite. It's watch your metrics there. See the improvement. I mean, the numbers don't lie. Yeah. They don't have to be perfect. If feeling, if taking alcohol out for the rest of your life feels like this impossible thing, don't start there. I mean, just take it out for a week and see what happens. Yeah. Or at least if you're drinking just maybe add more water on the back end, like hydrate yourself on the back end. I, you know, alcohol and I do not get along anymore. Yeah. I don't we've never gotten along, but I still tried. I went to a wedding in September last year and I had one. They had these beautiful cocktails right before the dinner. And I was like, okay, one of my healthy friends were having a drink. I don't know. I just felt, I know that no, anyone was pressuring me, but it was just like, it felt like the thing to do. And I was like, you know what? I should be, let me, yeah, it felt social. And I took me days, days to recover from that half of a drink. I even drink the whole thing. And I was like, no, not worth it at all. It feels a little bit like my experience when I took gluten out because I was like, no, this can't be it. And then I'd eat it and I'd be like, oh, yeah, never mind. And it's like, you only need so many times to remember like, this is not good for me. And then you kind of take it on. But part of the reason I was drinking still, like not like to be clear, I was like, I'm really even drinking. Right? But maybe not even. But like, you know, on the weekends, like maybe I'd have some drinks, but it was almost more to make other people feel comfortable versus me. And as I've changed that mindset, it's like, also nobody really cares. Like, I just had my 45th birthday and we had a silent disco at my house. And I had some wine out. And I had a lot of people want to drink. I also had a bunch of high-o and the high-o was like such a hit. It was really good. It's fun, mocktail. Like, you can still celebrate with something and have fun. And I mean, I don't mind at all if people around me drink that doesn't bother me one bit. It's just my choice. And if I'm counseling my patients, it's my recommendation, you know, for better health. But anyways, you know, it's fun. It was like the first party I've had where I was like, wow, there was one glass of wine that was drink the whole night. So I feel like the trend is shifting. Yeah. For any of our birthday parties, gatherings, holiday gatherings, I'm always making super sexy mocktails. I was a gas tender one. Oh, nice. Also a personal trainer when I totally make sexy mocktails. I was a bartender and personal trainer at the same time when I was a college. Yeah. So I know how to make really sexy mocktails. And I always tell people like in the text red or the wet's out thread, I'm like, okay, I'm going to have sexy mocktails or have sparkly water. Like if you want to bring your own, the wine or whatever by all means, bring your own alcohol. But we're just serving up sexy mocktails over here. Get out of this. So that's really, and I'm so grateful that so many friends and preschool friends, most of the time, no one touches anything, you know, at all. Like maybe it's a half a bottle of wine that someone brought and that's it. And so, and this is like, you know, parties of like 25 and 50 people. So I feel like the trend is moving in that direction. But I don't feel like anyone super angry when there isn't a whole display of alcohol out on the drink table. That just hasn't been an issue. But I remember when I was slowly putting into the wayside, I was a little worried about like how that's going to be presented. Like what are the parties going to look like? And ultimately I found that most people were really happy and content. Yeah. Sparkling waters and mocktails. That would be psyched about your sexy mocktails. Yeah. I do. I just springs of rosemary and, you know, I need to do it. Great fruit and all kinds of fun things. But I use a lot of things like Kenya Forex and Hios at like my base and play from there. Yeah. But it's just a lot of, and they look just as pretty as a beautiful cocktail with luck. And one thing that's really important to me is that they are blood sugar friendly. Yeah. And they don't slowly kill you. Yeah. Yeah. That's really. So the mocktails need a blood sugar friendly. But I mean, I just carry my emotional support Stanley everywhere I go. And actually I make my own mocktails for when we go to really nice restaurants. I don't care. I feel like moms can carry water bottles everywhere they go. But occasionally I've gone out with a friend and we are meeting at like a sports bar or something. And I don't go places where I can't bring in my own water bottle. But about six months ago, they were like, oh man, you can't bring that in. I'm like, what? I can't. What do you mean I can't? I feel like this is my sexy mocktail. This is my style. I was like, he was just water. And they were like, you could have alcohol in there. And I was like, do you know how old I'm 45? Like I am breathing. Yeah. I am Pyramanipausal. You think I'm drinking alcohol in Stanley? Like no, this is filtered water with electrolytes. Exactly. I'm like, there's still places like this where you can't even bring in a water bottle. I don't totally. I think these places. Yeah. But yeah, I'm so glad you mentioned alcohol because it's just a real conversation about how it isn't serving us. Yeah. It hasn't been serving me for a long time. Yeah, definitely. Okay. And yes, so sleep. We talked about sleep. I love the mindset piece as well. Christine Honey, where can we come and find you? If we'd love to work with you, if we'd love to learn more about you. I mean, Instagram is where I fell in love. Yeah. I like Instagram. That's my spot. Dr. Christine Marin.com is my website. And Dr. Christine Marin is where you'll find me on Instagram. Perfect. Perfect. Well, I just want to say thank you so much for coming on and having fun conversation. And again, congratulations to all the beautiful changes you made and that you were spreading. The really, I feel just deeply inspired at the hope of like, okay, when things are to shift, we can turn it around in our favor. And I hope that is what women here today, like outside of birth control and alcohol and all that kind of stuff. I hope you just hear that your forties do not need to be a time of resignation. Like they can be a time of reclamation and reclaiming who you are and who you want to be in this world and using all the wisdom that we've earned in the last, you know, 40 whatever years to be the woman we want to be and the women we were meant to be. You can focus on ourselves a little bit more. Yeah. I mean, amen to a long time. Yeah. All right. Thank you. Thank you. I loved every moment of that conversation. You know when you meet somebody and they're, I'm like, what you like me? We're doing, we're in the same thing. We're in the same boat. This was me and Christine Marin. I feel like so much of our stories were the same and how we decided to pivot in this time of transition were so similar. So there's one thing I hope you're taking away today. It's this that you are not broken. Your body is just asking for a new level of support. Whether you're already filling the shifts of Perry, men, or pause, or you're just starting to notice the subtle signs. Now is the time to get proactive. This tipping point is your wake up call, not your downfall, right? Perry, men, or pause is the opportunity to step more into you. Who you're becoming? The aliveness of you. The more non-negotiable, more authentic version of you. This is what we're talking about. From the importance of lifting weights to maintaining your metabolism and your muscle mass to the power of simple consistent habits like nourishing meals, deep sleep, and stress support, this is the work that adds up over time. It's like compounded interest, right? And Dr. Marin reminds us that we don't need to overhaul our entire lives. We just need to take small, aligned steps with consistency and compassion. And yes, even though we didn't dive super deep into gut health, I think we both agree that you're gut, your hormones, your brain, and your energy are all connected, right? Nothing is operating in a silo. This is about your whole body health, not just your bikini parts, right? So if this episode lit a fire up under you, please take a moment and share with a friend, a colleague, a cousin, right? Let's normalize these conversations to lift each other up as we navigate this powerful transition together. And I want you to know that you've got this, right? That you get to keep choosing you every single day. You could take decide what you love and dive deeper into that. And if you're looking for a way to navigate, for the what to expect when you're in perimenopause and the pillars to follow. I want it just recommend that the Perryman Menopause Revolution book is available free, pre-order with all the sexy bonuses, over $500 in bonuses right now, including my exclusive bonus, which is how to step into your future, Epic Healthy Self. Right, how do you become the energized vitality, just incredible version of yourself? It's about getting clarity. And that is the sexy bonus that I have for you right now with the Perry Menopause book. Also note that I'm gonna have other really incredible sexy bonuses that I'm stacking over the next several months, that when you get in now, you get every single one of those big bonuses that are worth hundreds of dollars on their own. And again, if you wanna go and follow Christine, I highly recommend, go follow her on Instagram. Yes, please. And I will have the link to her website, so you can check her out there, because she is a woman to watch, absolutely. She has a clinic, she's accepting patients in certain areas of the country, Colorado being one of them. And yeah, she's just so fun to watch on Facebook and Insta. And again, I'll have the link to her website. And in the meantime, in between time, I have a beautiful day, and I look forward to seeing you in the next episode. (upbeat music)