Grindr Makes a Date With AI

[MUSIC] How do introductions work on a first date? >> Introductions work on a first date. I think introductions typically, I'm a hogger, so I start with a hog. Some people go for the handshake and I'm like, no, we've already been chatting. Let's not make this weird, right? [MUSIC] >> Pietro Pocora is 27 and he's single. He lives in San Francisco and works in tech. [MUSIC] What's your dating life like right now? >> I'm like casually dating. I got out of relationship almost a year and some change ago. And I think that forced me to reflect on what I want in dating and what I'm looking for. >> Do you have like a type? My type, my friend said this and I was like, that sticks. My type is Tall Dark Enhancem. >> Mm. >> I like a bad boy. >> Yeah, okay. Who is your fantasy person? What do they look like? >> It's hard because I'm not really a celebrity like. And so like Pedro Pescal. [MUSIC] >> Pedro Pescal, the heartthrob who starred in the Mandalorian, the last of us, and also Corona beer commercials. >> To really embrace life. You just have to learn to let go. >> In his hunt for Tall Dark Enhancem, Pietro mainly uses the LGBTQ dating app Grindr. And about six months ago, Pietro agreed to beta test a new feature on the app. >> It's called AI Wingman. AI Wingman, a bot powered by artificial intelligence, meant to help its users find love. Pietro is one of 10,000 people who've been given a peak into this unreleased AI technology. So you were AI curious? >> Yes, yes. That's a good way to sit, describe it. >> All right. >> You have to be AI curious in this economy and in this world. [MUSIC] >> Welcome to the journal, our show about money, business, and power. I'm Kate Leinbach, it's Thursday, February 13th. [MUSIC] >> Coming up on the show, the new race on the AI frontier. Love. [MUSIC] [MUSIC] >> Pietro has been using Grindr since he was 18. What does your about me say on Grindr? >> Right now, I think I just changed it actually. So it says up in Tahoe for the month of February, needs key buds. And then I say start with the face pick. Big deserts guy, prefer fake guys and connection that inquire within. [LAUGH] >> Okay, wait. >> So this is so like, I feel like your car may get to my soul right now. I know you could show my friends this and I just think of it as a lot of podcasts. >> Okay, okay, let's breathe. >> Yeah, sorry. >> Right. >> Now, back in the dating game, Pietro is remembering the things he doesn't like about the apps. What is the worst part of online dating? >> Filtering. >> Mm. >> It's a time crunch. On Grindr, how it works is that you are given a grid and you can see everybody who's around you. And that has really a lot of positives, a lot of cons as well, because everyone can reach out to you, talk to you if you want. [MUSIC] >> Even though millions of people use dating apps to find romance and hook ups, there's been some backlash. Like Pietro, some people don't like the time commitment. They don't like the slew of getting to know you messages that don't go anywhere. Some people are tired of the emphasis on looks. They just don't feel like dating apps are genuine. And others are ready for something new. And many people have talked about this on social media. >> I don't ever want to swipe again in my life. >> We can all agree that this has to be the worst time to be single, right? Because we're done with the old, we're done with the apps, but we're not in the new yet. >> Just delete it. Don't download it again. Just be lonely. Just enjoy your loneliness. If I don't meet anyone out in the wild, so be it, but I'd rather take my chances. [MUSIC] >> The dating apps are catching these signals. And they've been trying to write their relationship with users. Here's our colleague, Bell Lin. >> Dating apps for quite some time since the sort of end of the pandemic have really struggled to retain the big numbers that they posted when people were at stuck at homes and looking for connections. And being online and swiping was really one of the best ways to do that. But since then, it's been challenging to keep people glued to their phones when they're really seeking in-person interactions. >> Dating apps like hinge, tinder, and bumble, have been struggling with declining demand and user engagement. Many younger users have snubbed the apps. And companies want to make online dating better, more joyful, and faster. Enter AI. Here's the CEO of Tinder at a conference. >> And I believe that as much as Tinder benefited from the smartphone bursting onto the scene in the 2010s, we can now leverage AI to transform the user experience and the founder of Bumble. >> There is a world where your dating concierge could go and date for you with other dating concierge. >> No, no, truly. And then you don't have to talk to 600 people. >> But the app that's done the most with AI, you guessed it. It's Grindr. >> They've really sort of come out ahead of the pack in talking about what AI can do. And they're talking about AI agents or bots. And what bots can do are essentially perform tasks or services on our behalf. So whether that's going out and finding a great match for us, or simply saying, you should meet at this coffee shop because you and the guy that you match with, both live in this neighborhood and it's convenient for the two of you. So that's the kind of future where AI is basically doing all the hard stuff that you don't want to do. >> I am fascinated by the fact that they seem to be veering into a very sort of sci-fi direction in which one day, maybe not in the so far future, the apps are integrated with AI in every which way. >> If a world where bots match lovers together sound straight out of sci-fi, that's because it is. Take this episode of Black Mirror called Hang the DJ. In it, an algorithm matches different people in relationships until they find their lifelong partner. >> It's my first time on the, you know, with the system. >> We do. >> A device pairs couples for fixed periods of time. In this scene, the AI even decides their meal. >> Do you know how we order? >> I think we use these. >> Oh, menu choice already established. >> Oh, are you myself? >> But this sci-fi type dating situation is not what the apps are offering right now, at least according to Pietro. He's been testing Grindr's AI Wingman for about six months. He says the Wingman is like a chatbot. It can give you dating tips, advice for how to navigate Grindr and techniques for flirting. And how did you use it? >> I was mostly interested in dating tips and advice because for me, I want to get better at talking to people. In person, mostly, I think I have pretty good Grindr game. And so I was very curious when they said dating tips and advice to see what they would recommend. >> So to help his real life game, Pietro asked AI Wingman to write him some pick-up lines. >> I lost my number, I can have yours. Get playful, if you were a fruit, you'd be a fine apple. I go for humor, are you a parking ticket because you got fine written all over you? >> Whoa. >> Did you use any of these IRL? >> I did not. >> Can you ask your AI Wingman for an opening line if you bump into Pedro Pascal? >> Okay. The opening line if I bump into Pedro Pascal. They gave me something related to the Mandalorian. Excuse me, are you lost because I'm pretty sure heaven is missing an angel or maybe it's just the Mandalorian without his helmet. >> Aw. >> Hey, it's pretty good. It depends on how cringe you're. you would find that. Yeah. Or you could go with, I know you're not really my daddy, but want to be. Do you think you'll use that one? I think I don't know if I'd go with either of those. But what Pietro really wants is what he talked about earlier. Help with filtering different profiles. I'm pretty picky and I know some people are like, let's just grab a drink and see if the vibe is there, but I think there needs to be a good foundation texting and chatting before the date is like the pre date, right? What do you wish this AI tool could do for you in future versions? I think if I were able to spend less time filtering, then it can give me recommendations on people that they think I'd be a good match with, that would be really cool. To figure out if Grindr's AI Wingman is going to give Pietro the help he needs, we called up Grindr's CEO. That's coming up after the break. [Music] All right. George, you ready for this? I am, yes, looking forward to it. So can you start by introducing yourself, tell us your name and what you do? Sure, my name's George Erison and I'm the CEO of Grindr. George has been the CEO of Grindr since 2022 and he is also AI curious. I believe that AI is a massive platform shift in technology and I'm a product guy and I really care about building products that users love and care for. So that's number one and I think it can do really awesome things for users. Something that we can even conceive today right now as being things that they would want, right? Like for example, hey, here are all my messages that all people have talked to, help me figure out which of these people might be inclined to be in a long-term relationship and which ones might not be. And then help me sort that based on obviously with their consent based on their behavior patterns, based on things that they say and their chance to people etc. Who is into relationships and who is not? How do you see this AI wingman changing the way people date? Yeah, so the feature that people want the most is hey, I really like this profile. Recommend a bunch of other profiles to me that are similar to this. We don't do that yet, but that is definitely the kind of killer feature that a lot of people want and I've thought about that feature way before people start asking for it because there was obvious to me that that's something people will want in a pretty big way. Find me the one or find me the ones, right? Like not necessarily the one, but like really highly qualified, highly selected 10 people or 20 people. Grindr put us in touch with one of your beta testers, a guy named Pietro. And he said the worst part of online dating and using Grindr is what he described as filtering 100% that it's a time crunch. I love that because what I've been just talking to you about is making filtering a lot easier through AI and it usually tells you that's the most annoying part, which is what we want to solve. So you think wingman will be able to help Pietro spend less time filtering 100% can you have your wingman out there chatting for you with other profile people who then their wingman is chatting back? So I've certainly thought about that and I think that will be happening. My god, AI is finding your partner for you. I think it's almost certainly going to happen. I don't I mean, I'm forget about Grindr. Like if Grindr doesn't do it, somebody else will. How big of a priority is this for Grindr and is it going to totally transform what the online dating world will look like? My hunch is that AI will totally transform what online dating world looks like, but it's going to also transform what every other engagement that people have online or offline, frankly, is like. That's inevitable. And so that's going to happen. When is going to happen? I don't yet know. And how quickly, but it's going to wait. I mean, definitely going to happen at some point. Is it two years, three years, four years, five years? I don't know. So how important of a priority is it? I think it's huge because we can create a way better user experience with AI. I asked our colleague, Belblin, if she thinks there's going to be an appetite to pay for AI to play matchmaker. I think there are a subset of users who are really itching for something better out of their dating apps. And so there is this sort of hankering, I think, among a subset of users who haven't given up on the apps for AI to bring in something fresh and interesting. Do you think that AI is the answer for dating apps or is it just an industry grasping for an answer to a business problem? I think it's a little bit of both from the investor perspective for the dating apps. They're really hoping to see an increase in paid subscriber numbers and user growth and revenue. And AI sort of promises that because there's really not that much else that the apps can sort of turn to at this point. It's really technological innovation that they hope can drive the numbers that their investors are hoping to see. But at the same time, the way that technology is moving, it was only a matter of time until it came for dating apps. Do you think that AI is going to be the future of dating apps? Yeah, that's an open question. I'm pretty skeptical of the fact that AI is propped up as this sort of as long as we roll out these certain features and introduce some to our user base then people will use them. That's sort of story we've seen before and it doesn't always end well. For AI to take on higher order work, there are big questions over trust and reliability. Do we actually want AI to do this? As for Pietro, the AI wingman hasn't transformed his dating life. And right now, he's focusing on skiing with friends in Tahoe. When's your next date? When's my next date? I don't know, hopefully sometimes soon, depends on it's good. It's you've planned for Valentine's Day. I'm going to be having a wholesome Valentine's day up here in Tahoe. Next, consider the best kind of love. The friend love. Yeah, I think you want to be friends first. Right. And then see if there's something more. That's all for today. Thursday, February 13th. The journal is a co-production of Spotify and the Wall Street Journal. If you like our show, follow us on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. We're out every week, day after, noon. Thanks for listening. See you tomorrow.