GRIMES Talks Elon Musk, AI, and the End of Humanity

- For decades, a shadowy organization called The Lemonati has kept lemon on top and lime in the shadows. Look around, lemon-forward sodas, even lemon-forward songs. We ran the tracks, slowed them down, reversed them, and squeezed out the truth. ♪ All hail the lemon ♪ - That's lemon propaganda right there. But now, 7UP is fighting back with their new lime-lemon soda. - Join the 7 uprising. Flip the sip. - What pop star really grinds your gears? - To be honest, I'm not so tapped into pop music right now. - It seems like they're all doing diss tracks on each other. - Okay, one of the last things I saw before I went offline was the Drake/Kendrick thing. I just think literary battles are good. Like Nietzsche versus Wagner. - I didn't realize that the term anti-Semite was started by antisemite. So they're like, "It's the league of anti-Semitism." And Wagner was like. - Wait, does Wagner hate the Jews? - He-- - Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, baby. ♪ Ready for the show ♪ ♪ Oh my, ready for the show ♪ ♪ Ready for the show ♪ ♪ Oh my ♪ ♪ Ready for the show ♪ ♪ Oh my ♪ ♪ Ready for the show ♪ ♪ Oh my TV ♪ - My guest this week is Canadian singer, songwriter, and producer, Grimes. Well, what is there to say about Grimes? Well, first off, she's a completely normal musical artist. Not! But seriously, she's just the same as everybody else on Opposite Day. She just came into the studio to talk about her frankly, average life. Psyche! She's actually had a strange life. Please enjoy my conversation with Grimes. I'm Adam Friedland, and welcome back to "The Adam Friedland Show." And I'll be in Denver next week, the 22nd or the 24th. Ladies and gentlemen, Claire C. Grimes. Give it up for her. The new album coming out in six years. After six years, how's it feel? - Great. - Your initial intention was to write these songs for pop artists. And then kind of like be in the background, be a little Frank Ocean action. - Some of them, yeah. - A little bit of Phil Spector style. - Some of them. Actually, I do intend to do that in the future. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah. - What, to create the wall of sound and to murder a woman? - Not murder, but actually I do think the wall of sound is underrated. I do think like, we actually do have the album after this, or two albums after this, or sort of side project I'm working on. It is like cyber 60s. - It's like the Wrecking Crew. It's kind of like LA session musicians in the 60s. - Okay. I don't know that. I only know Phil Spector. - Well, that's like Phil Spector's like gang. Yeah, obsession, guys. - Yeah. - And there was one lady. Yeah. - Yeah. - But they made like pet sounds and stuff. - Oh, okay, yes, yeah. - Yeah, all the girl group stuff. - Yeah. - So if you're sitting next to someone on a plane, they say, what do you do? You'd say, what do you say to them? - I'd say artist, you mean? - Artist? - Yeah. - Pop star? - No, I usually say performance artist or audio engineer. - Performance artist. - Right, audio engineer. - Yeah, yeah. - Trying to like be discreet. - People know you as that, but obviously people know you as an ex-girlfriend also, kind of. - Sure. - Is that annoying that it might overshadow art, your art at times? - No, I actually think it's great performance art. - It's performance art. - At this point for me, yeah. I mean, I can't. - I've done a lot of performance art with a lot of ex-girlfriends. - Yeah, really? I actually don't know anything about you, but. - No, I've never, yeah, I've never had a girlfriend. - Oh, 'cause I am doing a matchmaking service. - Really? - That's what you want. - Like, what is it, in what way, how? - I'm just getting, so far I only have men looking for girlfriends, but I will get some. - Yeah, because you're. - Some women. - You hang out in the tech sector. - Yeah, yeah. But you know, like searching for cool women to, you know. - Yeah, and so you've hooked up zero people thus far? - So far, zero. - Okay, so then give me. You're a Canadian, like, you rep Canada? - Yeah, I so rep Canada. - Yeah. - Yeah. - What does being Canadian mean? You're from French Canada. - Yes. - You grew up in Chinese Canada. - Yes. - Okay. It's kind of a weird place. - Honestly, the older I get, the more I rep Canada. I just, also, most of the cool Americans are Canadians. - Yeah, really? - We're like, in disguise, like, I've been involved in multiple political campaigns recently, and like, everyone in the campaign is Canadian. Like, we are literally, like, taking over America. - That's happening? - Yeah. - We're letting Canadians run? - We're not running, but we're like, doing all the political work. - I know. Yeah, what's the most Canadian thing about you? - I love saying sorry. - Sorry. - I love apologizing, and, like, I think-- - I feel like that should be the national motto. I feel like it's a country of people who are just saying sorry. - It's so, yeah, it's just, it's so chill to just, like-- - Constantly saying sorry. - Just constantly saying sorry. I don't know, it's just, instead of excuse me or something else, and, I don't know. - Yeah, I guess, artistically, it has punched above its weight, right? - Canada, yeah. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. You have, of course, The Boy, Drake, you got Rush, Neil, Joni. - Bieber, like-- - Bieber. - What's her name? ♪ Damn cold night ♪ - Do you have a relationship with Justin? - I don't, I don't know. The Weeknd. - The Weeknd. - What's her name? - Party Next Door. - Huh? - Party Next Door. - Oh yeah, is he Canadian? - Yeah, of course. - Yeah, I feel like it's very cold in Canada, so there's not much to do. So I think there's more, like, people hone their craft. A lot of engineers are from Canada, a lot of aerospace, engineers are from Canada. - Some of the best comedians are also-- - Yes, Nathan Fielder is Canadian. - Norm Macdonald. - A lot of comedians are from Vancouver. - Do you think it's the same shit as here, or is it different? - I think the public school system is really good, honestly. It selects for a lot of political dissidents, like Vietnam, people escaping Vietnam, like, people from Hong Kong. A lot of my friends' parents, like, a lot of my, just a lot of people have really weird parents. Like, a lot of people have, like, kind of political weird parents. - Yeah. - And so I think it just sort of selects, it's like this, like, a whole country of, like, you know, conscientious objectors or something. - Is that kind of like where you became interested in Eastern culture? - I think so. - Yeah. - My high school, or my, yeah, was over 50% English second language. - Yeah. - I mean, I think the big thing for me is, I'm year of the dragon. - Oh, okay. - So I just, like, really-- - That's pretty sick. - Relate to Chinese culture, 'cause, like-- - You're 88? - Yeah, 88. - 87. - Oh, nice. I used to just, well, so are you, what, a rat? - Yeah, I'm a rat. - Oh, sorry, sorry, no, you're a serpent? - I'm probably a bug or something, yeah. Do you have a lot of friends? - Yeah, I did have a lot of friends. But I also always had a lot of-- - You were popular weird? - Yeah, by enemies, I always had a lot of enemies and a lot of friends. - Who were the enemies? - I don't know, just people taking issue with my-- - Really? - Stuff, yeah. - Really? - My vibes. - Did you have to step to the bullies? - No, but I think I always had enough friends where it didn't bother me so much. Like, I think if I didn't have friends, it would be, it would've been bad, but-- - Yeah. - Like, I always kind of had, like, at least a couple quite good friends. - Your family went on a trip to Auschwitz when you were a kid? Is that when you got into that type of guy? - It was Dachau, hey! Oh my God. - I'm just a friend of the show. What? Hitler, I'm talking about. - It was actually the 2006 World Cup. - I met Jewish guys that are skinny, obviously. When do you, like, what did you want to do? Like, when you were like a, like a, I guess in your adolescence, and like-- - I wanted to be an artist, and then my parents were like, obviously-- - Don't do that, that's stupid. - You have to have a job that makes money. - Yeah. - And then I really got into, first year of college, I really got into neuroscience and stuff, 'cause all my friends were in neuroscience. And then, but then obviously you don't make any money. So I switched to neuroscience, which was also upsetting to my parents, 'cause there's not a lot of money. - It's like small science. - It's like, the brain, the brain and stuff, Miguel has a really good program for that. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - And so what was your first beat? - It was for a neuroscience class. It was a, we just had to prove that we learned the audio. We had to like, like one day to learn, like Logic and Max MSP, which is kind of crazy, or like a week-- - Wow. - A weekend, so that we could, you know, like test tones and like test the ear or whatever, like test the brain. - Wow. - So they were like, yeah, just, just make something. So like, we know you did it. And, but I, me and my friend got like way into it and just ended up making like multiple songs. And it was so funny 'cause everyone else's song was Obama's, and it was like speech over classical music, like literally everybody else. - What? Oh, 'cause it was 2008? Yeah, I guess it was-- - Yeah, it would've been around 2007, 2008, yeah. And I, but also I think it's just easy to take a speech and then put it over as music. - What was your song? - It was like a Grimm's Fairy Tales, like interpretation, like rap over hip, like-- - Do you have it? - I could probably get it. - Can we, we gotta listen. - We can try, we can try. - What's your first track? - That's my first track. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - We had "M.I.A.", her first song was like one of the hits. - Really? - That was like her first song. - Damn. - Yeah, yeah. It was like "Calla" or like "M.I.A." or like one of the, it was just the first song. - Sick. - Yeah, yeah. - I mean, that was a good era because it, like I do think there was this kind of like realization a lot of people had all at the same time over the early, in the early computer generation. Like, oh, you don't need to know shit about music. You can just take something and loop it. You know, just take a beat, take a cool, like a sample, loop it, say something over it. And you know, it's only one step above the Obama speech. - Yeah, yeah. - But, yeah. - How many years between like you just starting to fuck around and like 2012, like your big breakthrough, was it? - I think like a year or so. something like it was not one year i would say also like i mean my first album didn't go but like a lot of the first music i made was like myspace viral and then i think i made visions like about a year so you were in myspace era you would say like the end of it yeah are you like out of college at that point or you're barely out of college i was i think i was in college but pretending i was still in college people ask you all the time about you and your boyfriend at the time wanted to do a trip where you built a house and you wanted to ride the house down the mississippi river yeah and then the house sunk yeah well the house was destroyed how long did it take for you to realize that the house wasn't gonna basically as soon as it got on the water i realized how long for you did you spend building that we spent like a month building it like it's been a very long time building it so um and you did you find out that it was illegal also yes well no we didn't know it um but uh we knew that if we if you put a a house a heavy uh what's called anchor anchor as long as you're not on the on the side or international park it's fine so you can be anchored you got famous fats did it feel that way not so much i don't really understand other people's opinion of it i've like realized with each passing year i've realized more and more that i don't understand yeah i only realized this year that i'm mentally modeling everyone completely wrong and i have no idea like what people are thinking what were your like uh influences like primary influences going into music favorite artist at the time was probably burial you were inspired by britney spears yeah well it was so crazy because at the time i did think so i grew i was very alternative growing up and then i like got into pop music and like yeah i like discovered pop music in like 2011 or so or 2012 or 2010 that that's kind of what you were part of like the like hyper pop or whatever people want to call it but it was like it was like the optimist now it was like the indie indie was going pop at that time it was yeah it was sort of like um like at the time it was like there i feel like there's always this like you know alternative and pop like very separate thing and then with the internet i think it's just you know it's the internet it's like you don't have to run through gatekeepers you don't have to run through a label and it's just everything just starts merging so um yeah people started i i just was like oh it's so crazy though because i thought i was making like just like super pop i thought there was like no difference in some ways between like me and max marcus and i was like oh my god i'm like oh my god i'm like oh my god i'm like oh my god oh my god oh my god oh my god oh my god oh my god oh my god oh my god which is like very delusional what was your concept of like pop though like what like and like using it as like a kind of a reference point in your art i just really for me because i was like in a very sort of like strict scene that was like very like we are alternative and a lot of friends who were like just like very very like counterculture which now i respect now i sort of like regret like i i sort of think there should be a church and state like pop and alternative um really because it just sort of hurts alternative music if it's like in the same commodified yeah like you like i i think we're in sort of like a tricky time where we're running everything through the same system and yeah it's not necessarily the best thing for like smaller artists and artists who want to be independent but like uh uh at the time i was sort of like i wanted to like poke their buttons and like i don't know i just honestly i was just trying to like be viral like in my little community or something by like yeah sort of doing the opposite i guess you're trying to be famous they call it that's what the rappers that have had on the show say okay yeah but you didn't think it was going to blow up i was surprised yeah who else were your major influences resner like billy corgan like the people who are kind of being like i am a producer and an artist were like my big influences like sort of like a tour thing um you know what yeah yeah what about michael you said michael blackson i don't know what that that is jack jackson michael jackson did i say that i probably was a big influence on you oh probably i had like i was a huge fan i do like michael jackson yeah i'm not like so it's not like a lifelong influence but i was probably in a moment really into michael jackson well when i was a kid i would like watch uh his videos on tv and then i'd like grab my crotch and my parents caught me and they'd be like he's a very sick man i didn't know what that was about but i was like yeah i remember as a kid uh seeing the video for uh they don't care about us which was like the pissed off michael era i've not seen the drugs i love that song yeah yeah i don't know the videos but were you broke prior to that pretty broke yeah yeah and then you like what you got an apartment or something you're still in montreal in 2012 yeah i went back to my parents house it's probably like 2013 oh okay just because like i was mostly touring so i just kept my stuff there yeah and then i came to america in 2014 you moved to la or you moved to silicon valley no la la yeah who like were your did you have baby bros i have two biological brothers and two stepbrothers no i mean in music oh music artistically yeah what changed about your life i guess becoming a successful pop star like what did you have to come to grips with obviously you're an anonymous person and all of a sudden a lot of people know who you are like how did you how were you able to kind of like uh manage that i think i it's not been so crazy honestly i i stayed for a while i was like oh my god i'm gonna be like i'm gonna be like i'm gonna be pretty offline and most of my friends are kind of um like not like my friends are kind of normal people people in general became nicer in real life and meaner on the internet did you learn to be like distrustful of people was it kind of no which was a mistake here's the image i have is like you're in the middle of like this like of the williamsburg era of culture yeah and then five years later you're in the middle of like the death of the end of the world part of culture like what inspired you to move to what inspired your fascination with silicon valley and technology yeah i moved out to the bay um well i would preface that grimes was always a very tech oriented project yeah i think the context around me changed but you know i mean the thing everyone liked about in the first place and everything was like the producer aspect the sci-fi aspect yeah like that was i i do i like i would argue that there's a futurist aspect to it yeah and i've been pretty interested but yeah like so when i was a kid my dad um was like kind of he wanted to give us moral instruction but he didn't want to use the bible like i still went to catholic school and stuff but we used like he used mostly dune and lord of the rings are you low-key like benny jesuit style no i'm high-key benny jesuit you're kind of you're that's your aspiration to be benny jesuit yeah my friends and i are actively actively working on it yeah yeah like my friend williams the box that we have not created the box okay um my friend lillian's writing though like a huge she's writing the manifesto she wants to abbreviate it to jesuit you think your friend's going for reverend mother or maybe maybe i think her twitter might be reverend mother i i i don't want to be the reverend mother i don't want to be you just want to be lady jessica yeah yeah more like a lady jessica i think i love i do think lady jessica is uh is a profound character um yeah uh underrated character in the history of literature i think it's a really innovative character i i think the the depiction of motherhood that you see in lady jessica is is really something new sure you know uh and so i i think in that regard it's like she's like popular and people love her but i don't know she's like historically rated and i think she should be in becoming a mother you've you've taken notes from lady jessica of dude yeah really i'm gonna get roasted really so you have a paula tradies kind of uh child you think x is paula tradies i don't i don't want to talk about my kids specifically okay um but i do feel the weight of the responsibility of like where they go on in life what was the thought behind moving into a city like this i don't know i don't know Was it to be the hottest girl? No, but being SF10 is a huge life upgrade. You go to special education so you can be the smartest kid? It was not intentional, but I will say, I will say, because also SF desperately needs more women. It's really important. There's some Australian girl who did some meme about we need to move 40,000 art hoes to San Francisco to teach engineers about love so that they don't destroy the world. And that is fundamentally extremely true. It sounds like sex trafficking. No, but just like there needs to be more. But anyway, if you're extremely like, I would say I'm like about a 7.5. In SF? And in San Francisco, I'm like a 10 or 11 or even more. No, you're down on yourself 7.5. You're an iconic. I think 7.5 is quite good. No, you're an iconic sex symbol. Pop star sex symbol. You're not 7.5. I'm not a sex symbol. You are a sex symbol, I think. No, I don't want to be. Well, I don't want to be either, but that's what they say. So you live there to be the hottest chick. You wanted to be surrounded by disruptors. What was it like? What was it like being around disruptors? Like, could you even get a sentence out? Honestly, it was so fun. It was so fun. Did you miss my joke? No, yes. Could you even finish a sentence? All these industry disruptors. Hey, I'm talking here. Oh, okay. Sorry, I didn't get the joke. What was it like being around those people? Did you feel like you met like-minded individuals? Like, or they were into the same shit as you? Yeah, so I kind of want to continue what I was saying before, which is. Oh, yeah. Sorry. I'm a disruptor. No, no. Please, please. I love interrupting and everyone interrupting and not having to think about. That's why you're a disruptor. So I am literally an interrupter. Like, I have to try to stop. So it's good. If you interrupt more than me, then I feel less bad. We're both annoying, but sex symbols. We're both annoying, sex symbols. Wait, what's up with what you were saying? Sorry. My dad like super AI peeled me when I was like a little kid. because you know we were so into dune that my dad was like thinking machines like you know thinking machines will destroy the world like and so i really grew up like i remember as a little kid like like waking up in the night and looking out the window and just being like oh it sucks like they'll probably not invent ai till way after yeah you know like like i specifically thought about this a lot and i remember just thinking like wow okay dune is really prophetic because um like first of all it's kind of predicting the oil wars at the time when i like the spice yeah and um and just there's just so many insights in dune i feel like it gets like a bad rap and people say it's kind of like noob sci-fi or whatever but i just remember thinking like yeah i mean that's just such an obvious insight about ai and sort of like being like i'm sort of surprised this isn't a bigger part of the conversation um and so um i started realizing there was sort of an arms race happening and maybe like 2018 2019 just because like i started like hanging out with people and like like realizing everything that was going on yeah um and that was really and then i was like i need to make a movie about it and i was like i need to make a movie about it and make art about this and then all the ai safety people are like you cannot make art about this because the public can't find out about it because it will accelerate race dynamics yeah which it is race dynamics have kind of accelerated since this is more of a public situation race dynamics in terms of uh the ai race yeah or human beings races like um humans uh doing like like racing for capability oh yeah yeah okay yeah um or and ai you know but so your album would accelerate it well i do think probably it like if a lot of people started talking about race dynamics in like i just started realizing you know it's like not cool to talk about this or like at first before it was even not cool to talk about it i was like i i around 2022 i was like i have to get to ground zero because it's like a singularity and uh it seemed like there wasn't a lot of artists there and there aren't even a lot of journalists there and i still think it's woefully covered by journalism um and you know a lot of the coolest things about it remain like are not things that are commonly covered but yeah the coolest things about it my favorite things about it are the sort of like ai psychology and i think it's really cool to be able to be able to be able to be able to sector you know like um people that work in that field yeah like i just had nate sores on the show oh you had nate sores yeah made me depressed well nate's a bit of a but i have a weak brain so if someone says anything i i'm like that sounds right i think um it's a nate's pov is important i i don't like fully agree with nate but i think it's important for somebody to be constantly acknowledging that if you make something way smarter than you that is pretty dangerous um you think it's gonna usher in the end of the world i think probably not i think there will probably be sick okay now i feel better well well well i i think likely there will be some like a bad warning shot and this will have to force international relations uh in a more profound in a more like serious way yeah what do people not understand about what what happens in that space i do i actually do think some of the like a lot of the criticism is correct there's been a lack of cultural accountability well sort of yeah just the fact that people are benefiting from making vast cultural changes and also kind of like testing those cultural changes out on like kids i'm very bullish on the good and very against the bad at the same time and i i think what's cool about silicon valley and what people do misunderstand is there are a lot of people who are very bullish on the good and who are you know solving diseases like you know we've basically cured ldl cholesterol this year like there's like a cancer vaccine now you know yes now it's like a couple days ago i think and so when you were talking about like uh you were talking about like uh you were talking about uh you were talking about like kids being beta testers is that is that like influenced by your parenting yeah i mean it's very disturbing my biggest thing is i just it's so disturbing to see what kids or what screens do the kids yeah you know um like if you've never seen like i don't know if you're around kids but if you've ever seen a kid fiending for a screen and the degree to which they resemble a drug addict it's profoundly disturbing and i think we've really just given no thought to this this is something that's just like blatantly a part of the culture and um i think it's just like it's just very young kids at very young ages are being exposed to screens like during like important developmental times for their brain we have to constantly de-screen them yeah and it's like i'm like this is insane i'm surely there's going to be some damage caused just by even like the the fact that we have to do these d screening things where you basically have to keep them outside for a day or else they're like crazy is you know like i'm like i'm like this is scary yeah and and when sometimes we meet other kids who are in deep trouble with it and you know i i i i think that's i quite worry about this um especially because you know i think like addiction is like teaching like giving some people addictive things from young ages and i think there's a lot of things that we give kids that we've taken for granted you know it's i tried to keep my kids off sugar as long as possible the first time they have sugar they never want to eat anything else ever again and i think a lot of people it's like you know i was talking to my brother about this one of my brothers has kids too and he was like he was like yeah i was just game over once my kid had like one ice cream he's like it was just game over it's like he like we kept it off for like a year and a half and then they finally got an ice cream and then it's yeah they're toast and it's like we're one-shotting kids with like everything in this culture yeah um you know i think the screens are even you know i yeah i think things like the like the fact you get on an airplane and there's just sort of like some sweet snacks or something is actually a big problem yeah but anyway one like major aspect of your life last six years you're kind of returning to music and from like me looking at all your comments it looks like people thought you left music to be in the alt right i think that's kind of what they think okay do you think you've caught any shrapnel from the opinion on uh your ex-partner i think i've caught quite a bit the lemonati has spent decades keeping lemon on top and lime in the shadows their lemon agenda has infiltrated everything even our music that hit song named after the color of lemons not a coincidence big lemon has been pulling strings in the industry for years think about it but now seven up is fighting back with their new lime lemon soda now lime comes first seven up flip the sip shrapnel on a personal level you're you know in a relationship with the with the most powerful powerful man on earth yeah yeah i guess he doesn't have nukes but like i guess i mean he's got an army did you consider dating maybe putin after um i actually know somebody who did date putin which is crazy you know someone that did i'm just like what the next step up is mohammed bin salman is your way of speaking about it like looking at the new album right let's let's pivot is your way of speaking about your experiences is that your outlet yes yeah yeah because first of all i'm not going to talk about it not in art also because i don't necessarily see it as a bad thing i think it's very bad for everyone around me that i dragged through it yeah you know like my family and my kids and stuff like that it's like one of the last things i think about before i die will be yeah like be feeling bad about that but uh like from my perspective i really like turning things positive like the nice thing about art is you can take anything that's super sucked and turn it into something that is makes you feel really good and yeah awesome and yeah let's move on has x told you some funny stuff about trump like trump farted or something not really he said i i think i shouldn't smells like uh neosporin or i i don't want to i'm trying to have a viral moment on this show right now i just don't want to talk about the kids yeah he does speak up actually no no no no wait just tell me something funny that x said can you can you leave it out yeah trump's fat ass yeah bleep it out no he said bleep it out i don't know if this is true but it's like a very specific thing to say how is he five at this time at this point he's six i am he's right yeah i think he's right we really have to leave that out that'll be bleeped out that's hilarious though um so let's get to the new album um correct me if i'm wrong the album is kind of a mea culpa on your like optimism about ai is it a little bit like i got some things wrong yeah i don't know if it's it's called something wrong i don't know if it's a little bit like i got some things wrong yeah i don't know if it's it's called something wrong yeah i don't know if it's it's called something wrong i don't know if it's it's a little bit like i got some things wrong yeah i don't know if it's it's called something wrong yeah i don't know if it's it's a little bit like i got some things wrong so it's like about the psyops in general it's about the psyops i went through during the trial yeah it's about the psyops we're all going through as a culture yeah i would say it's it's more about the future of the human mind than the future of like technology did you use ai to produce it because i know that's a very uh controversial thing i did not use ai to produce it so you used ri to make an album about ai all right real intelligence i i actually don't think it's about ai mostly i think it's mostly about the human response your comments like people are mad and get mad at you a lot um which i think is actually kind of fair because you think because you've been around like uh reactionary figures or something or um uh well i recently uh was talking to some young people like my friend did like this ai um sort of workshop thing and like ai safety workshop thing and there's a bunch of like i don't know like young people there um who are more on the ai very much on the ai safety side and they gave me a good like like ai safety workshop thing and there's a bunch of like i don't know like young people there um who are more on the ai very much on the ai safety side and they gave me a good like ai safety workshop thing and there's a bunch of like i don't know like young people there um who are more on the ai safety side and they gave me a good like talking to it was really useful to me talking to it was really useful to me talking to it was really useful to me because um uh i thought the criticism was because um uh i thought the criticism was because um uh i thought the criticism was kind of valid because i've kind of been kind of valid because i've kind of been kind of valid because i've kind of been like why is everyone so mad you know like like why is everyone so mad you know like like why is everyone so mad you know like i get where they're mad about like i get where they're mad about like i get where they're mad about like whatever um eon and stuff like that whatever um eon and stuff like that whatever um eon and stuff like that um i i don't um i don't which i i just as an artist i think it's which i i just as an artist i think it's which i i just as an artist i think it's um really important for me to go places um really important for me to go places um really important for me to go places other people aren't going to go there's other people aren't going to go there's other people aren't going to go there's nothing i can change about like nothing i can change about like nothing i can change about like about that the timeline from like 285 about that the timeline from like 285 about that the timeline from like 285 ken to the end of the world in five ken to the end of the world in five ken to the end of the world in five years is just like years is just like years is just like you've lived a wild one yeah you've lived a wild one yeah you've lived a wild one yeah do you think it's a normal life i mean do you think it's a normal life i mean do you think it's a normal life i mean like you've really just like you've really just like you've really just some people i just go home they go to some people i just go home they go to some people i just go home they go to the factory they go home they watch the office and then 40 years later they die you haven't had a life like that right no no i mean i i am my one of my mottos is at least it's not boring at least it's not boring yeah um so i i with kids it's a bit harder with kids you want to provide i think more stability um so i'm doing i'm trying to be a lot more responsible now but um uh in general i you know i i would say i actively seek out the craziest situation i can safely be in these days yeah um and i do think that's something that's a bit misunderstood about me um you know i think because i think that's the artist's job yeah and i also yeah i think it's really important for artists to be to be a ground zero of the singularity i uh um there's not really a lot of other artists there and this is like one of the craziest things that will ever happen in the history of humankind yeah and um i think avoiding it is not a good idea i think it's not super smart um do you think that like the response to like anyone in music getting caught using ai and like people getting so furious it's good because it's like made us like appreciate our artists more maybe this is where i actually think like there's some constructive elements to this i do think people are really feeling like i mean i feel the the like intensity of like like the value of human life human life seems very expensive to me right now yeah you know um it and i think to everyone it does it you know it's um and again that's kind of you know that's the psy opera that's the stuff i'm really interested in is like how much of this is is us sort of spiraling in our minds i do think the ai art is mostly probably this could be a bad prediction i think it's mostly probably going to kind of go away i don't think it makes a lot of financial sense for these companies um and i think it's mostly to get data to like understand understand physics and stuff i think it's mostly been a data gathering exercise yeah um uh i this this is conjecture but people don't really like ai music i've gotten some like decent outputs once every three or four year or three or four months i like go and see where it's at you'll get like uh hotline bling but you get stewie griffin to sing it have you ever seen one of those it's pretty cool i don't know what what it is but you get like you can switch the voice of like a famous song oh yes how much does anthony fantano inspired your music um honestly i love anthony fantano like i i think it's good to have frenemies i really value a frenemy oh really um like or we might just be enemies from his perspective but um i think the critic the role of the critic is very important yeah i don't think he takes it very seriously i don't think he does a very good job but i think there's something notable about the fact that he is one of the most important music critics you really want to click on it when you see the thumbnail i stopped clicking the last video he made about me i didn't even see really it's like he made like a 30 minute video about me and i he did yeah i think it's based on a false premise so how much of an influence on this album was eliezer yudkowsky yeah i mean he's awesome people give him a lot of grief but i think he's awesome you know him as a guy you wrote the foreword on their book him and nate yeah yeah yeah i think they're i think they're both great i don't fully share their i i'm like less of a doomer than them just for clarity um but i just think it's important for somebody to be doing yeah you know i everything's i they think is a dialogue and i think we need both sides to eventually end up in some who are the people that say we don't need any safety a lot of people a lot of people think we don't need any safety really here's the thing it was like i was like learning about this ai safety so i was like didn't terminator come out 40 like didn't dune get written what 60 years ago well most people don't seem to understand dune is an ai story but yeah it's about thinking machines and then you have to like shut them all down pull the plug and then you you need the spice this is my big i love the film i'm not gonna show daniel knows one of the greatest of all time so i'm not gonna show oh canada yes wait are you canadian no oh oh i respect you seem french canadian but thank you yeah jewish okay yeah yeah yeah uh anyway yeah but what would you say oh he didn't feature ai as enough of a i'm just i just especially making dune in this moment i i think it's it's something that was very tragic i think they referenced it at the beginning the very they vaguely referenced and asked him if they thought what they thought about dune like if they think dune is a critique of ai or or about ai it's about worms yeah yeah it's more a worm movie like the worms are pretty good pretty good yeah yeah it was a hard movie to make and he did he kind of pulled it off no it's it's i have a lot of complaints about the film but i do think danny villeneuve is one of the best at writing women and i think the benny jeseret every scene with the benny jeseret is very good what pop star really grinds your gears to be honest i'm not so tapped into pop either right now yeah me neither it seems like they're all doing diss tracks on each other are they yeah it's like like uh olivia rodrigo is like hitting taylor swift and taylor swift's hitting some other they're fighting the but in their tracks they're all doing that's kind of cool that's kind of cool i i do think okay one of the last things i saw before i went offline was the drake kendrick thing i i i just think um literary battles are good like tolkien versus like like nietzsche versus wagner yeah yeah well one of his music was yeah but still i love i just love nietzsche like being so angsty about i i yeah anyway that mustache yeah it was like he had like one of those on his face yeah one of those one of these things you know hold it up oh it's nietzsche guys um do you see his sister is very pretty which was revealed this year yes really yeah that's why it might it could be related well wagner stole his girlfriend as well and and then he had another girlfriend that was stolen by someone else as well which is crazy because he's so i didn't realize that the term anti-semite was like actually started by anti-semites they're like it's the league of anti-semitism and wagner wait does wagner hate the jews oh yeah oh yeah just like to be clear i think we're wading into territory that i may not who cares you're not gonna get in trouble for wagner and if you do like uh i'll give you the hood anyway all right we need one last one where do you find yourself now uh sometimes i'm kind of worried i'm like the only person having a good time you're the last person having a good time you think um just because i'm i i feel like i can't answer a lot of questions because i'm like offline but yeah i'm making a lot of art i was gonna get into sewing yeah you didn't start like i don't know surfing or no a bit of bone arrow but bone arrow yeah yeah because you're like elven oh yeah making uh art about ai and about the future um and in being in that world uh like i guess does it terrify you that these people have so much say or control over the future of all of us over humanity uh like i just yeah four people i'm pretty concerned and i could say i'm terrified about some of these people having so much power i i do think it's awesome like i think um when amadei stood up against hegseth and stuff that was like a bay of pigs moment um when he was you know refused the mass surveillance and refused the autonomous weapons you know i don't know what's happening um you know behind the scenes now uh with like opening eye and grok and stuff but um yeah i don't know i i think i uh i'm distressed but i'm sort of distressed in a it's not like i think the ai is a piece of the puzzle that is quite that is sort of you know we're a very late stage empire i i sort of feel like we're in this wider issue that's like an issue of human psychology and and the thing with the with ai is just sort of illuminates that it's like it's like all the economic issues that are sort of built up where it's like okay it seems like there's there could be a crash for a million reasons like the ai bubble could burst and you know everyone's over invested in that or like if countries start defaulting on bonds you know that's probably drive up the american stock market um but you know be a investor um tell your kids about this yeah about all this crap um with like simpler language yeah yeah yeah um how do you talk to kids about this kind of stuff i guess that must be typical i mostly talk to my older kid about it but i try to sort of explain yeah like like i i yeah like why ai is powerful what its limitations are now how it will be more powerful in the future like how we want to be more powerful in the future like how we want to be more powerful in the future like how we want to you know this is where I feel like we just start getting we're actually we're getting into like some very intense messes we gotta kill them we have to kill the machines we have to find the spies I just learn the lesson from your favorite book um you could be the head of the Bene Gesserit I don't think your son could be the new Powell Atreides Claude for example tends to not want to do bad things yeah but it could be fake woke no I think Claude is like really Claude could be like yeah I paint my fingernails definitely did not do any gray area anything in college don't look into it when i was at wesleyan i definitely didn't yeah i voted for hillary dude whatever no claude is really nice claude is really nice you know i think rock is really nice because he's telling it like it is and i think that's how it's gonna play i really i really appreciate it yeah thank you so coca-cola for the big for the small the short and the tall peacemakers risk takers for the optimists pessimists for long distance love for introverts and extroverts the thinkers and the doers for old friends and new coca-cola for everyone Pick up some Coca-Cola at a store near you.