Grief, Memory and the Art of Enough

Hey, immigrantly family, this is Sadiah Khan. I have some great news for all the few. We recently launched our newsletter, which comes out three times a week. It's called Hyphenli, which is our north love newsletter with hot takes, heartfelt stories, and all the fields of living in between cultures. And for the new ones, stay for the vibes, you can find the link to subscribe in our show notes. Don't forget to subscribe. Welcome to the immigrantly hive. I'm Sadiah Khan, a cultural thinker, cat mom, and an entrepreneur. Here at Immigrantly, we are all about reclaiming the immigrant identity in its fullness and complexity. We add the layers back to who we are, the human, the pain, the contradictions, the joy, all of it. So thank you for stressing that play button. Today I'm leading with affirmation that our stories matter, not just the big headline worthy ones, but the quiet ones too. The ones tucked inside family recipes, street corners, or sounds that remind us of home. My guest today, Jaime Roque, is a musician, podcast producer, and a storyteller. And the host of recurrent, a show from the Gettie that uncovers the hidden stories behind monuments, places, and people. Gettie, for those who don't know, is an arts institution that produces several podcasts. And it's a great space for celebrating art, culture, through history, memory, sound, and so much more. Hello, my name is Jaime, and welcome to recurrent. When I listened to his episode about Julius Easton, it struck a deep chord. I was blown away. The music you're hearing was composed by Julius Eastman in 1974. And it's his music this concert is celebrating. Not only was I unfamiliar with Eastman, this concert was also my first real introduction to minimalist music, a style of music that strips down sound to its most essential elements. Now, Eastman was a musician who so proudly and defiantly broke the mold of what society expected him to be. And instead, created from a place of radical, self-definition. It reminded me of what we are trying to do here at immediately. Right? To tell stories that don't fit neatly into boxes, that challenge the narratives we've been given, and that celebrate the fullness of who we are. So without further ado, let's jump right in. Welcome to Immigrant Lee. And welcome to Squadcast. This is the first time we're using this platform. So let's keep our fingers crossed and hope that the recording works well. We got the audio to back it up. How are you doing? I'm doing well. It's Wednesday morning, it rained yesterday in LA, which is a whole other set of problems here. Unfortunately, but it's so nice and sunny outside. You can see a little bit. It's good. I'm good. How are you doing? I am good. The weather in New York is nice. We are finally getting some fall weather, because I kid you not. It's been vacillating from 70, 80 to 60 and 50s. And I'm not sure what to wear, what to set aside. It's pretty crazy. You said you're in LA. That's where you grew up, right? I actually grew up in the Central Valley of California, but my parents when they first immigrated here to the States from Mexico, they landed in LA. They landed in the San Fernando Valley, panorama city, specifically. My older brother, he was the last one born in Northridge, and from there, because they were still undocumented at the time, my dad's friend was like, hey, there's a lot of work over here in the Central Valley, which has been a farm worker. And so they both left. And so that's where I grew up. But I had a little bit of a dual life, I'd like to say, because I grew up in the valley, but we still had a lot of family. We still have a lot of family here, Los Angeles, Orange County. So we would come and visit all the time, then after my parents got amnesty and they decided to open a business and they opened jewelry business. And so we were always in the jewelry district in downtown LA. I would say like a good number of years Monday through Friday in the valley, and then weekends here. To make it a, you know, a party almost, we'd come early downtown LA to the whole business thing. And then we'd go to my uncles in either LA, Orange County, and we'd just spend the weekend here. And then summers, they would send us over further break and certain weeks. They would do an exchange with my aunts and uncles, we'd come here, they'd go over there. And then, so I feel like I got the best of both ones. I grew up in the mountains camping, but I also got to experience LA life from an early age. So let's go back to your childhood and talk about where you grew up in the mountains. What are your fondest memories? Oh, man. I would say, I pride myself that I learned how to swim in the river. Yeah. Is that different from swimming in a pool and please, I am so ignorant on this, so ignore that. No, I don't know if it's different. I mean, it is different because you're kind of got to watch yourself really closely. It's indicative of like what my childhood was like because, you know, we grew up, it was a valley bone near the foothills. So the river was like 30 minutes away. So kind of like what the beach would be away for somebody here in LA. I would say that's indicative just because, you know, that's how it was. Like I was out in nature. We ate a lot of fresh fruit because of values known as, you know, the bread basket of the world, getting oranges. Because I mean, it was just like a different time and then again, we didn't have a pool. So the closest thing and it gets hot in the valley. And so we would just go to the rivers and then my uncles from LA would come. So it was either we go there or they come here and then we just spend all weekend at the river. So we had no no difference. You just have to be more careful because, you know, your the stream is moving and the water is freezing because it's so close to the mountains and at that time, it's like the snow is melting and that's what's going through the river. No, it was just really good times. I felt like I had the best of both worlds because I still had that nature experience. You know, we go camping, visit Sequoia National Park. We haven't in the past couple of years, but you know, every summer before that was kind of just we'd go camping as a family twice a year. It's the best because there's no cell reception. Like nobody has cell reception, but everybody you kind of like care about is there. So you're just kind of in a different mindset to cycle. Like if something were to happen, we're all here. You don't need to like worry about the outside world or calls or things like that. So it was a best of both worlds, I think. So I was listening to your podcast, but I want to go back to your childhood again and ask you about how way you lived, who you interacted with, your cultural background informed how you started listening to the world. The sounds, the landscape, the soundscape memories, people. First it starts off with like my parents, you know, they're really where the big like first exposure to my culture, because they, you know, they were immigrants, so they kind of have that like lived experience. And I would say with them, it just started with the first language I learned from them was Spanish. And so in the home, I had two older siblings. And you know, obviously at school, they would speak English, so, but in the home, it was just Spanish. Then I think at one point, we were speaking too much English in the home. And so my dad was like, you know what, I think they're going to lose their language. And so after school, my siblings and I, after our homework, we had Spanish homework. And so my dad would like, you know, my dad was in a teacher, you know, didn't go to school for any of that. So he would have like this, like list on the, on the fridge. And we had our Spanish homework, it wasn't hard, but it consisted of, you know, he would pick out passages from these books, Spanish books. And then he would teach us how to read it. And then so we eventually, once we kind of like got the grass, he would have us read it to him, out loud, write it. And then so he would listen to us read and then correct us. And then he would look at our writing and then correct it. And then we would have to go back. And then, you know, just, and so it was a lot of that going on. But now I'm grateful because I can read and write and speak Spanish and, you know, interact and Spanish. But I think that was a big, like, indication of like, oh, like, you know, don't lose your your culture. Like don't lose the, you know, at least your heritage, cultural heritage, because we're all born here in the States. So that was a big one. And then a lot of Mexican cinema, we watched a lot of Mexican cinema, you know, back in the days where you would go to like a blockbuster and read movies. So I talk a little bit about that in the first episode of like, you know, I vividly remember it was like so much fun going. And you know, my brother and I, we'd get at the time we went to wrestling. And so we'd get like, we'd pick the, we'd have cables so we'd get like the latest like summer slam or whatever it came out. But, you know, they would always get a Mexican cinema movie, whether like a classic or like one of the more modern ones at the time. And that area still is the central valley is there's a lot of Latino population out there, because the farm work is still prevalent. And you know, they're, you know, they're, they're the ones doing the work, you know, I grew up around also the knowledge of the United Farm Workers Association, the UFW, Cesar Chavez or Luis Huerta. So I learned about that really early on, because my parents, when they first moved were farm workers, they were, they were in that. And then throughout, you know, my dad's, my dad, you know, my dad's life and him talking about, you know, his experiences, you know, he did tell me a lot about the injustices that did happen during that time. And so, you know, I grew up a lot to just learn about Cesar Chavez like four, I think, not before he became famous, but before, at least I heard it more in like university courses and things like that. So did those experiences draw you to hidden stories? I would say yes, that and just also growing up in the valley, there's a lot of really interesting stories, but it's not like major market quote unquote, I always thought, like, man, this is such a cool, like story, like why isn't anyone talking about it or, or like, that's like super interesting or like even just like hearing, because after my parents became jewelers, they, you know, they interacted a lot with customers and, you know, I would, as a kid, they would go and sell, like it was really kind of the different type of, so they had their store print, but then they would also go to your door. And obviously as a kid, I would go because no one would take care of me. So it was a lot of that, you know, obviously they talk business, but they'd also talk stories. So you know, I would just be listening, I'd be like, oh my goodness, you went through that or this is happening or, you know, so a lot of that. But also, again, also Cesar Chavez that, you know, just hearing about that was also a big one because I was like, man, this is like national, this is big. And it happened here. So that was a really exciting too because it was something that happened near me and that I could identify with because, you know, just driving through Delayno or, you know, on my way to LA, driving through Delayno or just seeing all the, you know, in the morning due to get up and you'd see people working already and you'd see, you'd know that there's a story behind why they came, you know, how they're, you know, surviving here in the US, you know, and then their families now. So I think now that was kind of the big like, yes, I got want to tell stories and things, but at the time, it wasn't like, that was what it was written retrospective is looking back and like, okay, there's a lot of cool stories that I wanted to tell, especially starting with like the U of W and things like that. But at the time, it was just all me soaking it in. So when you think of stories now, do you think of story from your personal vantage point and how it resonates with you or how it would resonate with your audience? It's actually a little mix of both because obviously I want people to enjoy, you know, what I'm making, what I'm producing. But I also have to enjoy what I'm making and producing because I'm the one spending the time editing, writing, you know, mixing this thing in the end. I think going back to, again, learning by U of W, going with my parents to like these different homes and learning stories that are in the community, I think that also extends into like what I'm trying to do. For example, season one, I did a story on a barbershop in Pocoima. That's one of the oldest black owned barbershops. And I was just so fascinated. And because I cut my hair a lot. And so I was like, oh, barbershop clothes are cool. But also, when you drive by this barbershop, you know, you're not going to know the history that's there. There's no way to know unless you specifically like, you'd like, no, like, you know, styles with or this or that. But I was like, this is such a cool story. And, you know, maybe something that a lot of people don't know, like, he's working to preserve these stories and this, you know, not just the physical building, but, you know, preserve the story of what this is. And so I think that's kind of where the mixture of, I want to do something, but also I feel like the audience would really enjoy learning about like this, like, I guess, quote unquote, hidden story. So I was listening to that episode as well. And I do remember you talking about how often you get a haircut. Like it's almost like once a week or once every two weeks. And I was curious to know what about haircuts fascinates you or what part of your personality does it really connect with once you have a haircut? Like, what does it bring out in you? Good question. So I do cut my hair once a week, but I cut it myself. So that's how I can justify that because prices now are outrageous. When I was a kid, it was like $5. Now it's like $80. It's one of the reasons why my brother and I actually learned to cut our hair because we're like, we wanted to cut our hair. And when my parents are like, oh, that's a lot of money each week. So we're like, okay, we'll just do it ourselves. But yeah, so I come here once a week. I do it myself, but I talk about like this fresh feeling. It's almost like, you know, people do weekly resets or monthly resets or, you know, for me, and I know this might sound a little weird, but it's almost like a weekly reset for me. Like it just feels like fresh. And right now I tell people I'm in the era of repairing my central nervous system. And so I feel like that's part of just like, okay, like, I feel fresh, I feel good. I feel like I can just like have this breath of like, like this deep breath and go, I know it sounds kind of weird, but it's just something about like, it's so weird. We all have our own rituals, right? I don't think it's weird at all. But I wonder if it's something that you saw your dad do or somebody in your family do my dad. He was always groomed. I have picked like, he was always, always groomed, but he didn't, he never cut his hair like me, like short or anything, but he was always groomed. And I would catch him all the time, you know, like he had a mustache. And so he would like trimming his mustache and funny enough, he, I know it's more common now, but you know, dad's was an old school Mexican guy, but he would do a skincare routine. He would do a skincare routine. And so I would catch him all the time, just like, leathery enough. But to me, it wasn't, it was just like, oh, dad's just, you know, down the shower, he's doing his skincare routine, whatever. It wasn't anything weird, but now I'm looking back. I'm like, huh, I wonder how many, you know, old school and I call it old school Mexican, old school Mexican dads were doing like, you know, these like, not full-on facials, but, you know, just like, lathering and then making sure he was like moisturized. So, I mean, I'm pretty sure some of that rubbed off on us. And then, but then also, you know, they always kind of taught us, you know, be presentable and make sure you're looking your best. So, you know, a lot of those things I'm sure kind of seeped unknowingly into like who I am and my siblings are. But yeah. And then my mom, again, she was also the same. Funny enough, I never saw her do a skincare routine, but my dad was the one. Maybe he was just a little slower. I remember him looking in the mirror, just taking his time. You know, like, like, not pressure that or rush that off. So, going back to your podcast, I may recurrent, there was one episode that really stood out to me that struck a chord. And that was about Julius Eastman, a musician, a composer who was so defiantly unapologetic about breaking down malls and doing things that society didn't expect him to do right. So, he was this great composer musician. He was more into minimalist music away from jazz. He was black, he was gay, but he was not focused on jazz because everybody at the time expected black musicians to play jazz music, right. And it reminded me of how so many times all of us in whatever capacity we can, we tried to break those malls, those narratives that have been woven for us instead of by us. So, what drew you to Julius' story? And is there any true line that you can see connect with your story? The story of Julius is just so fascinating. That's why I think I was immediately attracted to it. And I got to visit New York for that story and I got to talk to his brother and visit his jazz club because his brother did, you know, going to jazz and amazing performance by the way. It was just amazing. Something that I, as I as a musician love because they're just jamming. There's no lick track. If you're a musician, you know this, you're not playing to a click track. You're just like, you know, what true jazz is, like, you know, like this democracy of like, cool, you're holding me up now and now I hold you up and we're kind of riffing off each other. But the true line that I see with breaking molds and stereotypes is I was an elementary school teacher before this. And so a lot of the times we get told like, oh, you need to pick like this certain career or you yourself feel like sighting tells you. You need to have this like, I don't want to say it's safe but almost like a safe like career, you know, just get a job, get your benefits, you know, do all these things. And then we're kind of shied away a little bit of this creative series because it's maybe seen as less safe, less stable, you know, less income, whatever it could be. I grew up in musician. And so my parents really were supportive of that. I mean, they brought me my first drum set, my first gongas, like all the instruments, well, maybe like, besides some guitars, but all the instruments before that, they bought for me for my symphony because they were very, very supportive of us being creative. It's what we do. But, you know, just they're the mentality when, you know, they come, we come from a different family, sometimes it's like, oh, that's great for a side gig, but maybe not the main gig because, you know, we want stability, you know, all those things I was talking about. So I went to teaching, I was a teacher for many years, still doing music on the side, still playing, helping people. And then I got into like this radio, the first foring into radio podcast and was like this internet radio station that a friend of mine invited me to be on. At the time, I was like, sure, yeah, of course, I had no interest, but I was, you know, me and him got along well. He got a radio show. He was like, yeah, I loved it. I was like, oh, yeah, this is exciting. Like, there's, there's something about this that I'm really, really into. And it wasn't podcasting. It was actually a live stream, your net radio show. What about that? Did you like, I think it was just the spontaneity of it and just, you know, and just riffing off of each other and playing music and, you know, having this like DJ. And then also, we were in a really cool radio basement in in Silver Lake. And so like, you know, it had this like really cool LA vibe that was just like, oh, this is good. And we'd come out and we'd go eat. And so it was just like this whole experience of like having a voice and also this new idea of like, man, now really anybody who puts in the time and effort can have a voice with our technology and like to see, you know, streaming and things like that. So that was my first like, hmm, this is, I like this. I don't know what this is yet, but I like this. And so I just kept doing that. And I think me kind of breaking out of that stereotype was leaving teaching and going into creative work full time and just being like, you know what, it's an hour and never. This is the time I left in the middle of a school year, which I wouldn't recommend. But I, yeah. But it was just because I had so many, at the time that I had built up so many freelance projects that I was like going to teach and then come you straight home and just working until like 10 11 12. And I remember one time I have so much work that I want to see about three in the morning that had to be up early to go to work. And I told myself, I can't, I just can't do this. I physically can't continue doing this. And so that's when I decided, you know what, it's an hour and never. There's this one particular moment that is really, really point it because I'm a dad of a daughter and at the time, you know, she wasn't born yet, but she was about to be born. And so I was at this crossroads because I felt like once she was born, I was going to be like, I can't do this. You know, like I have someone to think of now. Responsibility, yeah. Yeah. So now is the time if I'm going to go on and make something to do it. And so I remember I was applying to a lot of full time jobs. And there was one particular job at a radio station here in LA that I listened to all the time. And I was like, so like, I want this job. This is perfect for me, perfect. And I got really, really high up in the, you know, final candidates. And I didn't end up getting it. And I remember I was just so, so bummed because I'm like, this is perfect. Like this was for me. And I was just really, really bummed. But I still made the decision. I was like, you know what? I'm going to do it. I'm still going to go out and, you know, that's it. Bye teaching. Hello full time creative podcasting. Looking back. Do you have any regrets? No, no, I don't because at the time I was really just anxious. I remember that final day. I was just happy, but anxious because not knowing what was going to happen. And I remember as I left, as I was walking out of the parking lot into my car, I got an email from one of the producers at that radio station who interviewed me. The job that you didn't get. The job that I didn't get. Yeah. And so he told me, Hey, you know, I remember you from the interviews. You told me you like my show. Would you like to work on this, you know, couple episodes for this season? And so all the like fears I had really went away at that moment because it was almost like a sign that I got saying you're doing the right decision. And I tell people it was a failed interview, but it wasn't a failed interview. That kind of started the trajectory of like getting to where I'm at now and getting. Because then the stories that I did there. I was out in the field. I was doing what I wanted. I was actually producing stories and like kind of co-hosting. So all of that looking back was just like that's how it was supposed to happen. Hi, everybody. Still move between worlds, right? You're a storyteller, a musician, a podcast producer, and a host. Where do you feel most like yourself? I'll be honest behind a drum set just because I would say we have many loves in our life, but that was my first love. Just being a musician and being behind the drum set. I'm really cool being the guy behind the scenes, helping you produce. Hey, man, if you just want me to be the drummer and play one B, that's cool with me. That was my first love, but then that led to hosting the radio. So now I would say this particular moment, I really like being the host of something, whether it be a live radio show or like recurrent. I really, really like it just because I get to be out in the field, be in the community, be off the hill, as we like to say. I'm really just diving deep into like the stories, getting, and a big part of it is me going to the person I am interviewing and being in their world, not telling them my come meet me here. And I always tell people, I will meet you where you are at because I want to immerse myself in your world. And so I'm really comfortable doing that now. When we talk about stories and obviously recurrent is about telling hidden stories, stories that people are unaware of, stories that don't get the press or the notoriety that they deserve, right? But if there is a story that's not walking for you, what's the process? Do you exit? Do you rewrite? What do you do with that story? Thankfully, I work with a really, really great team, Christopher, who is our executive producer, Zoe Goldman, who is a producer for the other podcast on Getty as well. And we're a small but mighty team, it's only three of us. Before I pick a story and actually go out like we kind of talk about it and we make sure there's like a story there and things like that. But obviously along the way things can change. And so it really is just about brainstorming again and pivoting within the story or rewriting. So there's a lot of rewrites. There's a lot of just like, okay, this isn't working. Maybe we can do this or maybe you can reach out to somebody else to kind of give, to feel in that missing perspective that we need to fully flesh out this story. So it's a lot of just working with the team, really me thinking of like, okay, what do I need to pivot or add or delete? Sometimes, sometimes taking, you know, the certain pieces of tape out in order to tell like this story that we want to tell. We'll always start with the log line, you know, the kind of like the central question. And then from there, you know, the journey is where it really starts. So we'll start with the central journey. And then along the way, there's bumps in, you know, and we pivot, add, delete, maybe bring another guest this and that. So it's a lot of just molding the story afterwards. As a fellow podcaster, I can tell you that I've interviewed so many people like over 300 folks in the last few years. But there are stories that feel too personal or too sacred to be told or perspectives that I've still held on to. That I haven't been able to share with the listeners. And I'm sure there will be a time for those stories. But I do feel hesitant sometimes. And I wonder as a storyteller, have you had those moments where you're like, no, this is too personal. This is too sacrosanct for me to share it with the world. Not yet. I had that thought because my mom passed within the first month and a half that I started at Katie. And so the first episode is about her. And you know, I talk about her passing and her influence. But that was originally going to be anything in in recurrent like it was not planned to be first episode. But at that time, I had lost my dad and my sister, my mom, you know, my mom was kind of like that within the 10 years I had lost the three of them. And so I'm so sorry to hear that. Thank you. And then with so with my dad, I've never done a story like you're talking. I've never done anything or with my sister. But then something about honoring my mom. But also it was a process of me grieving because it was just so fresh, you know, but I still had this show to do. And so one of the ways I, you know, I, at first I was like, no, I can't, I can't talk about this because it's just too much. But then afterwards I said, you know what, no, like she would have been okay with this. Like I know she would have been okay. She would have told me, no, keep going. Like go to work, you know, you love doing this. I do this. And so it was a way of me honoring her. But at first, I was really, really hesitant of just doing it because I wouldn't know if I'd be able to get through the narration. But afterwards, you know, I did get like the strength to do it because it was my way of grieving as well. So I felt like that was maybe something I wouldn't have done beforehand. But I thought there was the right time. Also, the audience would get to know, know me through a personal story. You know, we all go through it, you know, one time or another and it's possible to get through it. As a podcast producer, audio producer, I record a lot of things, a lot of things. There was a piece of tape that I know it's only for me. And it was kind of like my final conversation with her. And so, you know, in that I do keep just for me. It's not that it's personal, but it's just like personal to me. It's almost like, you know, I may show it to like my daughter when she's older. But it's almost that thing like you said, like, no, like, maybe there will be a time to share that. But it was like my last conversation with her in the hospital. And I really, you know, most of the time when I'm recording, I'm like, oh, this would be good tape. Or this would make, you know, I'm always thinking like this might be good. But then for that one, it really was like, I have none of that in my head. It was just really like, you know what? This is for me because I know, you know, after this, you know, I'm not going to be able to talk to her again. And so I think that is an example of something that I probably won't make it out to anybody. But the story, the general story of her like influence and her culture and her foods and the way I still connect with her through foods, that I wanted to put out just because I feel like a lot of people could, you know, hopefully connect with that. And, and then also, my thing is, I also try to tell, you know, my friends, my direct friends, I'm like, there has to other friends like, go visit them, like be with them, like just record them, record their lives. But also, I just encourage people just, you know, think about like this world life where it's finite. And so, you know, kind of enjoy it where you hear it and appreciate the people while they're around. That's such an important message, Jaime. Why do you think as humans, we are conditioned. Our DNA is conditioned for us to enjoy little things, little joys in life, right? Connect with the sounds, the memories, people, places. And yet we are always looking for something bigger, something better, right? We don't pay attention to everyday living and life that happens to us. Drinking a cup of coffee in the morning, having a sandwich that says she, it's us in some way. Why do you think as humans, we've lost sight of what we are meant to do? I mean, it's the human experience, right? Can I get caught up in the moments? Also, you know, maybe the way that our society has conditioned us to consumerism more and more, more and more is good. But I'm glad you bring that up because I am actually exploring this idea of, and I call it the art of enough. Maybe we can call it enoughism. Enoughism, there you go. I'm minimalism, but enoughism. So yeah, so I'm exploring, again, I call it that. I just call it the art of enough because going through what I've been through these past couple of years, being a dad now, it's really taught me to slow down. Slow down, really just concentrate on what matters to you because we're bombarded with a lot of things in our life through socials, ads, is that of what should be important. But then I've done some retrospectives of what's important to me, what really is important. At the end of the day, it's not anything on socials, it's the work that I do and the people that are around me. And so I'm really exploring this art of enough of what is enough for me. I don't really want to keep going more, more, more, more, more, more. Honestly, if you told me what's what's the one thing you would want to do today, that's a joy. I would say just go to the park with my kid. Simple, you know, and so like I'm trying to take all the perspective of the loss that I've experienced, all the stories that I've done, because there was a time, like I said, where I was teaching that day, working at night, working freelance, multiple freelance projects, but it comes down to like, when is it enough? When is it enough? And I really want to enjoy life. I want to live life, not just survive. And I think I'm getting to that place because I enjoy the work that I do I get. And I enjoy, you know, just the life that I'm living outside of it. It gets rough at times with grief and, you know, all these things, still seeping in to journey. I've heard it's a lifelong journey that you kind of like have to really navigate. I'm learning the art of enough. We have to manifest enoughism in our lives. That's our new mantra now. The art of enough. I mean, you've already alluded to it, but is there a story you still don't have the words for yet? Your mom's conversation is one. But is there any other story that you're like, I want to, but it'll have to wait. I guess it would have to be something like personal. Like I don't have the words to tell my dad's story yet. Before he passed, I did, I didn't, I didn't record him because at the time I was just teaching and I wasn't fully into this audio world. I was more into the audio world than like you go into a studio and you record, but I did tell him to write down the story of his life. So he wrote, like, and I still have it in binders, his whole story. And my thinking was eventually, you know, I'll have a family of my own. And I wanted to preserve his story for the future generation of our family. No, you're here because of these people that came and sacrificed and left their home, you know, when they were teenagers, they were both teams, you know, and that's why we're here. I want to preserve these stories that will give people an idea of, oh, this happened because of this in the past, you know, nothing happens because it just happens. It happens because of like a chain reaction. I think that would be like a personal thing that I still don't have the words for and maybe my sister's story as well. Is there a question you wish interviewers ask you that they haven't? Oh, I've, that's a hard one. I've never had that. I'm always the one, you know, coming up with the questions. I would just say it would go along the lines. And maybe the specific one liner will come out as I'm speaking. We talked about a little bit like this enoughism that we coined here. I wish people would ask me like, what is enough for me? Like, what is enough for you? So what is enough for you, Jaime? Enough for me looks about like what I'm doing now. And that is doing a show that I love. Having enough time to go to the park. Having enough time to drink my coffee and go on a bike ride. I do like cycling so I'm going on a bike ride. Oh, I love it. I love it. It really is just focusing on what I like to do and enjoying my time off of that and really just living a simple life. I tell you, but I'm a very simple guy and enough kind of it's still shaping and forming and moving. But it's and it will change. It is a fluid question, but we've answered it for now at least. Yeah. Yeah. And now in the end, if you were to define the United States of America in the context of its ability to hold multiplicity of identities with pride and unapologetically. Yeah. That's another hard question. Now answer from my perspective and from my world and with like what I experienced through like talking to because with recurrent I do talk to a lot of different people from different areas of work of life. And I would say the one thing that I've encountered with the people that I've talked to is there is kind of this I would have put this like this layer of like almost empathy and understanding that's that's a little bit clouded. But I find it with the people that I interview with for recurrent. And we're all really more connected than we know when you really dive deep into the community and the stories of America. You're going to see like hey I'm more like my neighbor than than not. And we have really similar like stories sometimes. Whether it be like your first generation, third, fourth, but at some point we've all met or like had this origin point that was very similar to each other. And that's what I'm trying to just kind of you know do with like the stories with the recurrent and just really like look at community and see how we need community. We need each other to help these stories come from you know, stay from the past and go to the present and I'm hopeful you know it gives me hope in just you know the future the future that my kid is going to grow up in you know I'm trying to do my part my little slice of life in America to give her community to give her understanding to give her empathy. So she gives that out and hopefully she can receive that as well to you know make things better for her in the future as it is now. Thank you Jaime this was so good where can people find recurrent. Yeah so you can go to getty.edu/podcast/recurrent and that is our web page and there you can see transcripts you can see pictures that I take when I'm out you can see other links links to people that I've interviewed and then you can find us on all podcasting platforms. If you just search getty you'll see a project that could talk which is a new kids podcast that just came out it's really really fun. You'll see recording artists which is a really great show on archiving and you know things that are found archived with getty. You'll see recurrent and then there's a lot more stuff to come from getty so just keep your eye out on it we got a lot of cool stuff coming on but all podcasting platforms YouTube all of it and also recurrent season two is coming out really soon so just check it out on all your podcasting platforms and on the website and for all new stories. Thank you so much Jaime this was great thank you so much yes this was fun so now I'm going to turn the mic to all of you and ask what is enough for you because you know what I've been thinking about this a lot lately as humans we are conditioned to relish in little joys in our life but we are always so fixated on what's to come next bigger better things that we lose sight of what we have and you know what enough is in the word that I coined during this conversation or maybe the word already exists is something that I will be using more of to remind not just listeners that we need to be mindful of what we have but also to hold myself accountable so that I pay attention to what I have and to enjoy those little moments that are often overlooked this episode was written and produced by me Sadiah Khan the editorial reviews done by she you are sound designer and editor is Lou Ruskin immigrantly's theme music is by Simon Hutchinson other music by epidemic sound and by the way a huge huge shout out to sportly team for winning this signal award I'm so proud of the work we do at sportly if you haven't listened to that podcast please check it out it's on all different streaming platforms guys and I kid you not even for non sports fans they will enjoy this podcast a lot I promise until next time take care and come back so that we can have another important conversation [BLANK_AUDIO]