Graham Betchart

(upbeat music) - My name's Josh. My wife, Heidi and I are on a journey to understand what it means to create a life that matches our values and the decisions that align with those choices. - This is Eve and over. Welcome back. (upbeat music) - Hey, welcome to another episode of Even Over Everybody. Graham Betcher, welcome to the podcast. Thanks for being here, man. - Man, Josh, thanks for having me. Man, I'm super pumped to do this today. Man, it's been a while, huh? Been a few years. - It's been a few years. It's been a few years. We were talking about this last night. The last time we connected was at the Future Sport Conference back in 2019. And I know it feels like that was a different lifetime ago with COVID, with everything that happened. Oh my gosh. How has life been since for you? - Oh my God, yeah. It is a different lifetime. I mean, that was right before everything shut down. I basically stopped traveling after that, which was great to be with my family. And I recently, I just, you know, I'm the mental performance coach of the Sacramento Kings. I just took my first trip the last week again. And I actually had a good time. It was good being on the road. I had a good experience. So things are good, man. Doing well. - Was the, so the time away, when you were, when you weren't traveling, did you take a little break from working in the NBA? Where, what was, what was kind of that transition like for you and what were you doing when you kind of stepped away? - You know, I'm always working with like individual players that that really never stopped. But what I did when COVID hit is, you know, I'd been making a little bit of music before COVID. I looked at that moment as like a great moment to go all in with music. So I went all in with music when 2020 hit. And I've released three or four albums in the last couple years, all mental training albums. So I just, I went to work. I just tried to take advantage of what was there. And just like lock myself right here in my garage in my studio, I would just record it as much as I could. (laughs) - I love that, Graham. I, the first time, the first time I listened to your albums, what jumped out at me is the idea of rhythm. And I feel like this is something for you that like, energetically has probably guided so much of your life, even if it hasn't been direct. And I just wonder when I say that word, like what, what do you think about when it comes to rhythm and how that shows up in life? - I mean, I literally look at myself like an instrument. And I go, if I can tune my vibration right and get my vibes right, I'm gonna be an arithom in life, right? This whole thing is a flow. It's all the rhythm. So I do look at like alignment, rhythm, authenticity. That's all I do. And I know that sounds funny, but I just, if I work on the rhythm and the alignment, I kind of intuitively know everything else plays out really well. I mean, literally it plays out well, like music, right? Like it'll play good vibration. So it's all the rhythm, you know? - Have you found that being able to translate that literally into music, does that help when you're coaching? Do you end up drawing on that, sharing that with the players and the athletes that you're working with? Like what's the bridge there into kind of day-to-day the coaching style? - You know, well, I thought music was the easiest way to transfer this information. So with me, I'm always like, what's the simplest way to get this information to people? That's my whole life has been trying to take these vast concepts and making them simple. And then I just realized like, what's easier than music? I mean, you just have an art in the background. Every way, it's like a universal truth. Most people enjoy some sort of music in life. And then you get to the science of music, Josh, right? We started studying science of it. And if you remember being in kindergarten or preschool, we were singing all the time. You were singing the ABC. So everything was withmically being taught to you. And then at a certain point, life returned into memorization. And then there was no rhythm to it. So we're just going back to these original roots that's called dual encoding, which is where, when you learn with melody, it gives you twice as much of a chance to retain the information. So it's just, it makes complete sense, right? And you're like, just learn with music. So we just started taking the coaching and putting it out there with music as a way to make it simple for people. And also it gave me an opportunity to keep growing in life. Making music is super vulnerable. Sure, if you never put yourself out there, it's vulnerable as hell. And for me, I live for that. Like that's what I was looking for, because honestly, in basketball, I'm in a training, I'd hit a certain level where I was like, that's, you know, where else can I go with this? I need something else honestly to be bad at. I need something else to be not good at so that I can build up. And so, yeah, no, music has been a big part of my foundation. And then athletes love music for the most part, you know? So it's a great way to transfer it to them. You know, one of the, we were talking before we jumped on the lens of this show is values, right? I'm living close to your values. And one of the, I'll call it a value and you tell me whether I'm kind of directionally right here, one of the things I've heard you talk about from a values standpoint before, is this idea of being able to lean into the pain, to kind of work through, work into that pain and that discomfort, has music been a new kind of training ground for that muscle and that value? Very much so. In fact, like, you know, I always say victory goes to the vulnerable, right? So if you can lean into the vulnerability, that's where profound results occur, right? So years ago when COVID hit, I would make me and my friend who helped me make music. I made him go around San Francisco with me. We have right behind me, there's see that speaker? That speaker behind me. We would go around with that speaker, attach our two microphones and we would sing the songs out loud at different tourist spots in San Francisco. Honestly, to humiliate myself. And not that I like to be humiliated, but I knew if I could go start to do that and get through those early stages of how uncomfortable it is to try something new and I could proactively just go towards it and pound it out, I could get to where the music turns into like a vibe, turns into a flow. And so we would do that in San Francisco and I had an experience that blew my mind. We were at Ocean Beach, it's like the famous beach in San Francisco where people are at. We pull out this big speaker, we get on, and those people walking by, like wondering what the hell we're doing. And then I start singing our palms down song, which essentially goes, what time is it right now? Where are you at right here? How you respond palms down? And we're singing it and singing it. And I'm like, just just get through a couple verses and I know it's embarrassing, then we'll move on. And we got through a couple verses and out of nowhere across the street, a window opens up and this woman pops up and says, "Pom's down, yeah, oh yeah." And I was like, oh my God, like we're out here just trying to put it out and she's feeling it, you know? And we don't even know this person, she just started singing the chorus back. And so that hit me like, okay, victory to the vulnerable, ran way to put this out there because there was already a connection, which just ran them person. So when I was going out doing all the vulnerable work and doing it, you get these little signs that like, okay, this is working. And then once you get that sign, your confidence takes off in a whole new level, right? You're like, I wasn't asking for her approval, but when she sang it back, I was like, it's on. This song is a thing, you know? So, and then I had one more, one more I was doing these shows, Mindset Music Shows with like, AAU basketball teams. And I had a good friend who was helping me put it on and he said, "Grandma, this is awkward for me to say, but he was essentially like, you're so good at mental training, it's really awkward to watch you be not very good at music." And as he said that, you know, and he was like, thank you for that. I was like, first of all, just so you know, this is what greatness looks like. And I was being so well, I was like, the fact that I'm sitting here with shitty music and doing it and you're saying that, I was like, that doesn't affect me at all what you said, but I need you to know that where I'm at right now, this is exactly what it looks like when you're actually doing something big. You have to go through this experience. And then two years later, here's songs, now he goes, "Man, the songs are amazing." And I was like, how about that? But really, it was the gold was when it was vulnerable and uncomfortable. That's where the magic is happening. So I just go straight towards it, Josh. - Yeah, well, and it's incredible, Graham, because I think, you know, I've heard you talk about too, that you aren't driven by the external validation side of things, right? These call it the traditional metrics and things that we kind of, we ping off of in society. And I wonder, knowing that those aren't what motivates you, how do you use those effectively to kind of, to understand where you are, maybe in a process, right? Versus getting drawn too much into them. - I look at the praise from the outside, that's more for everybody else. And what I've learned to do is accept that for them. So if someone says, comes to me and says, "Oh, you saved my life." I'm like, I've not saved your life at all. First of all, you've saved your own life, 'cause you're doing your own work on yourself. Maybe I was next to you supporting. So I let them say those stuff, but I never take that in as far as like, I'm the one. So it's like a little dance you have to do. A good friend of mine helped me out. I was shooting a documentary on my work and I was talking to my mentor and I said, "I don't really wanna do a documentary." Like, I just enjoy doing the work. Like, I don't care about it. I get from satisfaction from doing it. And he said, "The documentary is not for you, Graham. That's for everybody else." That's so they know it's possible. They follow their heart. They know it's possible. Because honestly, Josh, when you follow your heart, the rewards are inside. It's so, like, when you follow your heart, because that takes so much courage and bravery, you're no longer looking for someone to say, "Get your job here." You're like, "I'm gonna go follow my heart. "It's gonna look like I'm going by myself." You start to feel from inside. And the feel from inside is so overwhelmingly more powerful. Like, overwhelmingly more powerful than someone from the outside saying, you're doing great or something like that. So it's like, I basically learned that the vulnerability is where it happens. And so I don't need approval from anyone to do that. I have to just be willing to go in myself, but I do accept it. outside praise for other people. So they know it's possible. I don't know if that makes sense. But it does. And it's a it's a powerful I'll say reframe and shift in terms of how you think about something like praise or or just broadly speaking external validation. Because I think so many of us use that as fuel for ourselves. We hear it. We get excited about it. And especially when it comes to values, right? You it's very easy to get maybe on that that circle and that called hamster wheel of I think a value looks like this. I did it. Somebody said good job. I'm going to keep doing it again. It's now it does. It of course, if you get a little momentary good feeling, but like if I told you, Hey, Josh, you're the greatest podcaster to ever live in this world. How long would that last for you an hour? Little I's not even going to do anything for you. Like there's like athletes they get told they're the best ever in the world. It does nothing for them. You would think it actually has some sort of meaning. So eventually you realize that no, I'm not talking about connection from like your family, like your family telling you they love you or like they deeply believe in you. That's different man. Like the intimate but like random people saying like you're amazing. Like that doesn't do anything for me. Because it really doesn't. Like I've told so many people like you're the best I've ever seen. I'm like, did that help you at all? They're like, no, I'm like, well, how about that? Because they credit my opinion. They think I have some opinion. I'll tell them they're great and it doesn't do shit for them. So it you do have to learn to develop it from the inside. I use this analogy. Like picture can here, right? You got to can. If the can is empty and I flick it, it's going to buckle, right? It buckles easy. If the can is full and I flick it, it doesn't buckle. So what we're learning to do is fill ourselves from the inside. So whenever the outside stuff comes, it really, whether it's good or bad or negative, it doesn't even really permeate us. You know what I mean? Because you can be sabotaged by someone saying you're great as well and then you stop working. You're like, okay, maybe I'm done now. I can just stop. How many high school kids have been told they're great at sports? And then you know what that does? It paralyzes them because in all of a sudden they don't want to fail at being great. So like they rank tie and think about so we're talking about self-esteem here. Right? We're talking about like if you have a 4.0 GPA and you think that's good self-esteem and then someone else has a 4.1 GPA and you get crushed, you have no self-esteem, you have nothing. You were building everything on a falsehood anyway because you're simply comparing yourself to someone else and if all of a sudden they're better than you, you feel bad. That's not confidence. That's not really it. That can't be it. That's fragile. Well, so when you're when you're working with athletes, Graham, on building this level of both, I'll call it's almost it isn't a juxtaposition but it feels like it, right? Confidence and vulnerability. And I imagine that you're you're working with athletes to learn how to lean into both of those in the right way versus kind of this externally driven way. Are there typically places that you'll start with an athlete or that you notice one of those things showing up in their performance, whether it's on the court or off? Yeah. Well, first thing we do is we say what is what is confidence? Because that word is thrown around so often and for 99% of people they think it's a feeling. They think well, I feel great. So I'm confident and I'm like by definition, that's fragile because if you're only going to do something when you feel good, how often does that happen? Be real. You know, like 10% of your life that you're actually feeling you're floric about something. So that can't be confidence or else you're going to miss all of life. I look at confidence as courage. It's really courage in disguise. So it's a willingness to be courageous and curious and show up in these situations and it turns out if you're courageous and curious, you come off supremely confident, right? So you're like, my confidence is supreme because regardless if I feel vulnerable or uncomfortable, I'm still going to be courageous and curious and go check it out. And when you do that, you make profound discoveries. You can't make a discovery if you already know what's going to happen, right? So you have to be curious to go into that space. So I look at confidence as three levels. There's shaky confidence, which is based on outcomes results and outside praise, right? That's really shaky. Then there's stable confidence, which is based on process. We go, look, I can control my process the whole time. And then there's supreme confidence, which is based on purpose, which is like, this is my role to go do this action. And if I fail miserably at it, so be it, but I'm going to go deliver this and I'm going to do it. How do I feel vulnerable, uncomfortable, but I'm still going to go do it? That to me is what I call supreme confidence. And you by definition have to want to be vulnerable. So I don't know who wants to do that. You never know who's willing to do that. But if they are, there it is, you can discover the high level. So as I as I hear you talk, Graham, one of the things that that all we I mean, this this ring so loudly, every time we connect is this level of call it, I think alignment is a great word for it. Just how closely you are aligned with not just these principles, but the way that you want to see them live that you want to experience them in the world. And and I wonder for you, like, was there a point in life where those crystallized and it became clear to you that these are going to be the values you have to live by or that you you just know are the right pieces of the world to live through. Yeah. Well, I was 19 and I was living all with the outside world, right? Everything was the outside world outside praise outside everything. And I was crumbling in life, you know, and I was my first year of college basketball and I was crumbling. And I instinctively knew like this, this can't be it, right? And that's how I reached out for help because I was like, this is so weak and fragile. I feel so fragile. And that's what I reached out for help and started to get taught all this inner stuff. And as I started to get fulfilled from inside, I was like, oh, this is it. This is it. And it was honestly it was because I was such a wreck that I had to look for something. And as I look for something, I found something. And then I found it at work. And my athlete mind was like, okay, I'm never looking back now. Like now that I have something, I'm going to wrap this out and I'm going to do it every day because once you find it, once you find that, you know, that you have the ability to design your own life that everything is within you, right? You have all of this stuff with you, but you do have to unlock it. Once you discover that, why would you do anything else? You know, and I mean, like, why would you do anything else? So, like 19, I found it. And then I've kind of, I think the word devotion and commitment, I think, is what really inspires other people. I stayed devoted and committed to it, even if there weren't necessarily jobs in the space or anything like that. I was like, but what kind of life would it be if I didn't follow this, right? I know that's a loss. So I have to follow this alignment and see what happens. Because I couldn't do anything else. Yeah. And that, Grammar, it feels so, when I hear you say that the vibration I pick up on is just so genuine and strong. And so I'm wondering, have there been moments in life? And I'm sure the answer is yes. So this is kind of a loaded question, but I'll let you, I'll let you weave it where you want to go, where there wasn't an obvious step with what to do, but you had to lean into those values and living close to them. I would say this, there wasn't an obvious second step. There's usually an obvious next step. I love it. But where your mind goes crazy is it wants to know the hundred next steps, right? When your parents ask, well, how are you going to pay for a house? What are you going to do for living? And you're like, all I know is today. And so what I had to do is I call it a one day contract, is you have to live with a one day contract because everything else is absurd anyway. This is real, Josh, me and you may not wake up tomorrow, right? And that's real. And we assume we are, but the truth is none of us know. So when you think about, I don't need to like be anxious about five years from now, but I do need to sign a one day contract today and go all in with it today. And as you start to do that, Josh, that's it. You know, so the way I would deal with my brain being like, holy shit, like what are you doing in life? And what's going to happen in 10 years? I'd be like, you're doing alignment, come back to where your feet are and live it today. And it would be terrifying. Because intellectually we're trained like in high school, all you're thinking about is where you're going to college. Nobody's telling you to be present in your college. What job are you going to get? Then you get a job when you're going to get promoted. And then the whole thing is everyone's running to retirement. And I'm like, that ain't it. Instead of running to retirement, we need to run to enlightenment. And that becomes something we do today. So you have to narrow your focus, incredible discipline. And I would just do a one day, one step contract. And then honestly, like cry a lot and be like, this is so insane. Because no one's teaching me this shit. I just know if I don't do it, I'm going, I'm gone. Like it's not going to work. So I had to just live in this space. And I would always tell myself, like this is it. Meaning like there is nothing else. Like it follow your heart, do it today. And if this doesn't work, then you can tell the world, this is all bullshit. But unfortunately, it did work. So now I tell the world, it's not BS. You do have to sign a one day contract. Your heart does have far more intelligence than your brain. And not that literally it's sitting right here. But like this like intellect, where are you going to go to college? How about just showing up present today and learning and then seeing what happens? You know, and for anyone listening to, I know, so this isn't just abstract theory, right? I mean, you've got a wife, you've got kids, you live in the rural world. This is these are, I'm sure there have been moments where signing that one day contract required a level of commitment and discipline that is hard to quantify when you think about those other responsibilities and relationships in life that you're balancing to. It took everything, everything I had, every bit of courage I've ever had. But again, Josh, I wanted it, right? I wanted to so like my intention was it. And if you don't want to follow your heart now, all that's going to happen in 10 years is just going to blow your ass up and make you follow it. There's nothing you can do to get away from it. And I kind of knew that. So I was like, I knew to go stick with it because it's going to talk to your whole life. When people are on their deathbed, all they're thinking is I need to be around my loved ones. I need to do what I love. They're not thinking anything else. So if I knew that was the highest level, right? Me to few billionaires and you realize all they want to do after they make the money is do something that has meaning and purpose. You're like, why not start with that? If that's the wealthiest of the wealthies, start with meaning and purpose and then have a little courage and follow it. So it's scary though. But again, if you're going to unlock it, we kind of have to embrace that. If you're not feeling a little bit terrified and a little bit liberated at the same time, you're not doing it. And I mean, so it's kind of like that's the space where the magic happens. On some level was like, I felt blessed that I was aware of this, but also kind of like damn it. That means I can't just go get some regular job and go be like everyone else and just kind of like, check out. I have to actually do it because I'm so aware. So sometimes my consciousness bothered me because I felt so aware, you know? - Well, as you're saying all this, one of the things that I'm thinking about is, okay, so we don't always talk about it in these terms, but one of the trade-offs that we make when we don't follow our heart and don't listen to those pieces of the puzzle that are screaming at us, oftentimes very loudly, is that we make this trade to kind of go through the day-to-day work that we're told to do, just, and I say told in a called like a meta-cultural level, right? - I got it. - This is the next step, right? This is the next step. And we don't recognize the trade being made there of kind of offloading some of that courage, some of that vulnerability and just saying, I don't have to do that. I mean, it screams at me when I hear you speak, but I don't think we talk about that very often. - We don't, and in fact, we don't even encourage people to do it. I mean, because it feels unsafe to people and they're like, how's it gonna work? That's why the devotion is key. I'm devoted every day and devotion means it's way beyond motivation. I'm not motivated to do this every day. I'm a regular person. I don't wanna do this shit. I wanna feel comfortable. I want all that, but then my heart is like, yeah, but you have to do it because that comfort can save you that people go for. Guess what? It's actually not comfort or safety. It just feels like it in the moment four or five years later, they don't feel safe. They don't feel comfortable. That fire inside of them is burning. And then all of a sudden they're like, "Oh, the shit, what have I been doing? Why didn't I do that? Why didn't I fall my heart earlier?" So they're not safe. It's actually not comfortable. What I'm doing, falling my heart is the most safe thing you can ever do in your life. If your concern is safety, following your heart has unlimited drive, unlimited firepower, you build as you're going on in life. And I like to say it's in fact, it's boring. What I'm doing is very predictable. If you follow your heart, you have a men's success. So that's not even questionable. If you don't follow your heart, I'm always like, wow, you are so bold because that's not gonna work. And I'm always like, wow, how bold of you to do that? Because that's clearly not gonna play out well. And you're still gonna do it. So I always say that to kind of just mess with people a little bit, you know what I mean? Because when you think you're being safe, I don't know that it's safe man. - What, Graham, when I hear you coach and work with athletes, one of the things that I love is that you're able to walk this fine line of being able to nudge and push and poke and prod in the most genuine, but also what's like productively challenging way, right? To break through some of those bubbles, to break through some of those old concepts. And I think about the kind of confidence it takes to do that with somebody who is used to being told, especially on the professional level, used to being told, they are the greatest, like you said, that they have no flaws that everybody's kind of trying to make sure that they're getting recognition from the athlete, as I talk about things. I mean that takes a different kind of courage and commitment to this process. - It's very true. And so the skill set is knowing how to connect with people, right? And you meet them where they are. So if you're working with a professional athlete, it's been considered ranked number one, their whole life, and they're at the highest level, they're making $150 million in dominating. They're kind of like, hey man, I'm rolling. Like I've already got it. And then you go, no problem. But do you, do you, you know, like deep down, do you really have you hit the highest level? Are you, have you done everything that you're capable of? And I think most of them deep down, they know they have it. And so when you present that vulnerability, when you present that to them, it does provide another challenge for them. It provides the ultimate challenge, which is yourself. 'Cause oftentimes a really talented athlete is so talented at what they do. The outside world can't provide much of a challenge, right? 'Cause they're like, I'm so physically gifted, I'm just faster than this person. Or you know, whatever it is. So when you look at that challenge inside, that's kind of where the greatness lies. 'Cause most people, they're not, they're just not satisfied unless they really face it, you know, unless they face themselves. (laughs) There's a maybe kind of an unspoken background here that we tend to, I think one of the reasons we were drawn to start these conversations around values is because I unconsciously, I know for me, I tend to when I sense that fear of, okay, I'm leaning into something that's really scary that I don't know how to do, that I feel vulnerable in the process of exploring, it's so easy to lean away from it. And I think a lot of times that the things that come easy to us are almost a little bit of a hamstring, right? They can hold us back in some senses because we don't get encouraged to say, go try something new, if you're an athlete, and you've been bigger, stronger, faster than everybody your whole life, you may not have been encouraged to say, okay, but are you really able to get in touch with what matters to you on a personal level, on a mental level, on a emotional level? And so, I don't know where that takes you, but it's such an incredible willingness to be not just vulnerable, but to work through fear that I think pervades a lot of our thinking. It's so true, and I always share stories about Aaron Gordon, someone I've been working with since he was 11 years old, and we always share our story together. You know, you would think that like, after you make $200 million, you're like, oh, everything should be really safe, right? I mean, like the anyone listening on this is like, oh yeah, like that's it. If I just get the $200 million, then everything is fine. The truth is, that's not the case. And I'm not saying, like get yourself out of poverty, like of course, like if you're not eating, get food, if you don't have a home, yes, you need a home, you need a place to live. But none of that is gonna satisfy your spiritual journey. None of that is gonna satisfy the growth that you actually need to go about here in the world. And sometimes you have to have those experiences where you get the outcomes you thought, and you get those outcomes and realize, holy shit, that wasn't it. And then all of a sudden, with the case of Aaron Gordon right now, explaining the best basketball of his life on maybe the best basketball team in the world, the Denver Nuggets, and he's made $200 million. And then realized after that, holy shit, if I run away from the moment, if I go away from fear, my life is crap. It doesn't matter how many mansions I have, how many houses I have, he was like, I'm done running away, Graham. And I was like, yeah, how much does that suck? And so now you're like, no matter what, you gotta lean in and go for it. It has nothing to do with your money or house, or any of that. If you don't lean in and go for it, you are devastated. And sometimes it takes $200 million to figure that shit out. - Go figure. Wow. (laughs) - Because we're all striving for this thing, right? That we think is like, if I get this thing, then I'm okay. You can be okay right now by leaning into it right now. You're okay. Right now. Like right now, you can actually find what you're looking for. - You know, Graham, you always talk about this idea of doing the work, right? And that this work, this, I'll use the term inner work, right? Being able to go through the process of peeling away these layers, of understanding what you're trying to lean away from versus into, it is work. And I think sometimes in a culture where we tend to want to go really fast and think externally, we forget that there's a layer here internally that requires the same kind of muscle building as we would equate to going to the gym physically. - Yeah. It's, I would say it's like way more important, you know what I mean? Like, that's why I've had to come up with language like walk to win with lethal patients. Everyone joshes in such a hurry. And I ask them, awesome, where are you going? And they don't even know. They'll be like, I don't know, I'm just running. I'm like, I know because you're scared or you feel anxious where you are or you feel like you're behind. A lot of people feel like they're behind. That is the biggest illusion of all time. And that, that, that crushes people's spirits. And so you have to come back, stop comparing yourself and start to really work from within. And the reason we say it's work, 'cause it is work. It is. And really what you're working is your fragile scared ego that wants to know everything and wants to make sure everything is comfortable and there's no pain. That's the thing that's limiting us. You know, and so our work is kind of going, hey, ego, I hear you, but are you really intelligent? Like, is this really my highest intelligence? What you're telling me to run to retirement? You don't even know what we're talking about, you know what I mean? But yet it's, it's, it's, so what, what, when anxiety hits you, like that's a real force for people. It makes them move 'cause you're uncomfortable. That's why we have palms down. No, no, no, no, I'm choosing my response. I'm coming back to our, I'm gonna breathe through this. I'm gonna move my body and I'm gonna shift the vibration of that anxiety, right? Here's the rhythm. I have to tune my instrument. And the instrument's not gonna be tuned in 10 years, tune it now. And as we tune it now, day and we're putting off that right vibe. Now we're not striving to be somewhere else. It's how are you being right now? And how are you being right now is what manifests everything in your life? So this is a funny, this is a funny question. I think it's funny, but not at all. literal sense, just in a kind of I'm parsing it a little bit. So Graham, you have the most incredible way of putting words together that you would not anticipate going together lethal patients, right? Like, oh my gosh, man, you say it and it hits me so hard because I get it instantly. Oh, like patients can be not only courageous, but devastating when it's applied in the right way, if it's understood, right? But so where does that come from for you? Where did you learn and find this joy to put these words together in this way? Use language this way. I'll say this, if you if you if you lean in and you face your fear, you will get access to stuff that nobody else has access to because you were the one who leaned into that. So I didn't make up words. I didn't make up English. I didn't make up any of this. But as I leaned into this, slowed my pace. And was like, I'm not going to go through life anxious. I'm going to work on it. I started to download all this information. So you can get access to information. And so all I do is I channel it through me and to channel it through me, you have to do the work though. If I'm running anxiously, I won't get access to it. So I've learned I can hear the play and then I run the play. So and then once I found that, I know I have a way with words like I I understand that. But that's my intention was to make it simple. I mean, I spent my first six years of my career working with 14 year olds just to see if I can make it simple enough to get it to a 14 year old in 20 seconds. Because if you can do that, I can talk to anybody and make it make sense to a nuclear scientist or astrophysicist. So I kind of realized that that's what I'm here to do is make this simple for people. As a good friend of mine said, he goes Graham, you have a way of like going to the top of the mountain, getting all this damn information. And then you bring your ass down here to us and share that shit with us. So my job is to go back and forth and to go, I get access to it and bring it down. And then I've trained my whole life to be good at this. So once I realized, like, this is what I've sacrificed is I'm going to my gift here is to share this with people. So instead of getting a job and numbing it, I'm going to stay open to it and see if I can put it in albums, put it in books, but you know what I mean? And do all that stuff. What in them? Just so one, what an enormous gift that you've given to all of us, Graham, just in being able to share this and and bring this to the world. And the other thing that jumps out of me is what an amazing time to be able to do it. Right? I think, I think about right now, the tools that are available to you to be able to distribute the information to share this information. It's not just the one to one world that we lived in maybe 20 years ago or even 15 years ago. Now you can put on an album and have thousands of people listen to it and go, Oh my gosh, I can, I, this is the juice, right? I can move forward with this. That's, it's just incredible. And I am so grateful that it's that the timing is what it is. It's a, I've dedicated my, that's why I've become like a recording artist because I've 10 years ago, a good friend of mine came to me, his name is Andrew Zimmerman. And he said something magical to me. He said, Graham, you have to share this shit with everybody. And he said literally like, don't you said you're being, and he was joking. He was like, you're being kind of selfish. He goes, you just share it with the people you work with. And I was like, yeah, that's all I'm doing because that's my fulfillment. And he goes, what about all of us out here? And so that hit me really hard. And so for the last 10 years, I've been diligently working on scaling this, diligently working on how can I share what comes to me with the world? And so I built two companies, right? I built train the mind and I built max conscious. And those are both designed to deliver this to everyone around the world, that scale. And I've taken my voice and put it on to a microphone and made videos, audio songs, you know, like just organized everything and put it out there for people. So, and then Graham, the guide, right? I had to become Graham, the guide, the musician. And so those are like my outlets for getting out to people. And then doing stuff like this with you, Josh, that's why I wanted to, you know, it's like, if this is how I can help people, let me put it out, let me open up and let me get it to people. Now, I've had to say no to jobs. So where this gets challenging is right? You're following your passion, you're doing it, it's working. And then you get like a couple of job opportunities coming your way that sound real sexy. And you're like, whoa, that's a lot of money or whoa, that's a thing. But your heart is like that ain't it? That ain't it? And you go, oh, do I fail right now? Just go like check out and do this thing? Or do I stay lined up? And so mostly what I do is I say no. And the more I say no, it's because I'm saying yes to the actual thing that I know is the actual thing, you know, and I mean, and that that that's sometimes is hard because some of the, the, I wanted to say yes. I'm a regular human, you know, like I want to say yes. I think about the, I think we're getting more awareness around just how hard no is to say, I mean, this is something I struggle with continuously. There, there are moments where you get that little tingle and go, oh, this, this isn't right. This doesn't fit whether it's a value, it doesn't feel aligned with what I'm trying to do. And it's, it feels in the moment so much easier to say yes than it is to say no. And that resistance is so, I'll call it painful at times because you're right. If you say yes, you instantly know you shouldn't have said yes. And you're, you're off to the races with this thing out of alignment. But if you say no, there's the fear inside of you. What happens now? It's like either way you're going to have to live with something. Right. If you say yes to what's a no, you're automatically off. If you say no, which is the right thing, you've got to live in that space right after saying no going, oh my God. And your ego's like, what are you doing? And so that's where I came up with lethal patients because I was like, that's the only way to counter that thing that it wants to run like no, I'm staying in line. I'm going to have lethal patients and I'm going to walk to win and I'm going to devastate my ego that is fragile and wants to bail. And I, you know, I've, I've woken up to text messages from Brad Stevens from the Boston Celtics. You know, I've woken up from text messages from Jaylen Brown saying, Hey, I just told Brad Stevens how much you taught me about breathing. We want you to come on and be the mental performance coach. And in my heart, what I value was being around my family. And I was like, I'm not moving to Boston. And so Brad Stevens calls me and I go, I can't believe I'm going to say this shit to him, but no, Brad, I can't do it. And then you feel like it's a yes, right? Don't you like, yes, then you hang up and then you just cry. And you're like, Oh my God. And you just saw because that's the human experience. You're like, I can't believe I just stayed aligned in that moment. And then a month later, Mike Brown calls you from the Sacramento Kings and asks you to join the Sacramento Kings. And I don't have to move my family. And that was the yes that I actually wanted. And I didn't even know it existed until I said no. I didn't know it was there. I did just kept working on alignment and then all of a sudden, like tonight, I'm going to go work with the Kings tonight. And I didn't have to move my family. So like, that's the blessing of staying aligned. You make discoveries that'll blow your mind, blow your mind. I didn't say no to Brad thinking I had another deal in line. I said no to Brad. And that was it. And then I just cried all day. That's it. And the the courage that it takes to do that when you don't know what's on the other side. I mean, that's the whole point of what you're talking to right is that they're those are the moments where it's it's most important to say no or to hold true to that value because you don't know what happens on the other side of it. But I did know what would happen if I said yes, I knew that would be off. So because I knew that was off, just say no and live. And then here comes the discoveries, right? Because because I said no, which is like going into a dark scary cave, but you go into that dark scary cave and guess what's in there? Everything you've been looking for. And it's like and it comes to you on a red carpet. It comes to you in a way that blows your mind. And then it gives you more courage to always stay aligned because I'm not here staying aligned because it's because it's I'm saying because it works because I've done it so many times. It's not even like I have to believe in it. I know how it works. So I just go damn, I can't believe I'm saying no again, but I know something amazing is about to happen. I don't know when I have to cry today. Because this really hurts, but I know I'm doing the right thing. And then and then you live in that space. And then I I share that with people so they can have the confidence to know it's real. I mean, you probably heard of the guy Roger Bannister, the first guy to break the four minute mile, the next year 27 people broke the four minute mile. So once people see it, me that it's it's possible. It helps give them the courage. I think a lot of times to do it too to follow their own journey. There Graham, there's a whole other layer and lens here that we that we haven't gotten a chance to talk to you yet. Well, we'll have to have you back on to dive into it. You just that. No, we're good. So let's do it. Okay. So so the other the layer here that I'm so curious about to his family, how do you translate that this relationship to being present to having the courage into the vulnerability to parenting into your relationship to your wife? Like what? How did those things translate into a family dynamic that I think a lot of us can relate to? I think that's where most of the mental training really happens is is in relationships. I mean, what's more challenging than a relationship, right? Yeah, those are the most rewarding things in the world like intimate connection, connection with people. So my wife and I, we've been friends for 25 years. We value therapy. We value mental performance coaching. My first teacher was her first teacher. She gave us so much marriage counseling therapy. We did so many looking deeply into each other's eyes, being intimate and learning to hold that space. So you put that work in and everything you're doing. And what what I'm here to do is tell people like, you know, if you want to get good at soccer, you get a soccer coach, people just go get married and just fucking roll the dice. That's like the thing you should get the most coaching in. You know, I mean like, whoa, like you're just going to roll the dice and see what happens. So I do, we do tons of coaching and counseling and about tons of therapy. And it works. And you learn skills, you learn practices. And then you know what, with my kids, we have an 11 year old daughter, a seven year old son. And we really just try to model the behavior for them. The best thing we can do as parents is model the behavior for being present, for staying aligned, for all of those things. I mean, honestly, like, you don't, this might sound funny, but you don't really teach your kids much. I didn't teach him how to talk or walk. They're hard wired to do all that stuff. It's like, not like, here's how you walk. Like, no, they're already like, it's happening in their systems, right? But they do, they do notice everything I do. They notice every bit of my energy. So I'm modeling how I respond to situations, how I do certain things. And that's like the most powerful thing I've noticed is like, they'll copy what you do, you know? Isn't it one of the most, I'll say terrifying, but in the best possible way, things that you have to see when you watch your child do something that you never showed them how to do, or never knew that they were watching you do, and you go, holy shit, you learn that somewhere. And I'm pretty sure you learn that from me, whether it's good or bad, I don't know. But like, that is one of the most terrifying feelings because to your point, Graham, you realize, oh my gosh, they're watching everything, they're absorbing everything. And I think something that I hear from you too is that they're absorbing not just what you do, but the way that you are being. Are you present right now, right? Are you aligned with the values? They feel, they, their children are so intelligent. It's almost like they're perfectly intelligent, until we like damage them and teach them like, don't get a grade point average. You're like, oh, okay, what does that mean? Like, you know, and it's like, so they copy everything, they watch our behaviors, they watch how me and my wife interact, they watch how we, when we have arguments, how we recover, you know, all those things, how we have compassion for each other, how we work with each other. So, I mean, the most important thing you can do is a leader is model the behavior that you want to see, you know, and then kids are like little flowers, they're born how they're born. And I think our job is to let them blossom into whoever they're supposed to be, you know, and I mean, and let them be because I have, you know, I have big passion for sports and all this stuff. I don't put that pressure on them, you know, like, I don't like, I don't care if you do anything with sports, they got to move your body, we got to do something physically, but I don't care what you do, you know, so I try to really be aware of that. So, I don't rub off on them and kind of, you know, you got like basketball, yeah, like, you know, they know I love it, but they don't even leave play basketball, but it's a great, it takes a, it's a whole other layer of courage to let them develop in the way that you want that they need to develop, right? I mean, this is, I talk about being vulnerable, Graham, I mean, oh my gosh, man, to watch, you know, there's something that you have so much passion for, but to not force that on them just by default, creates a whole sense of unknown, I'm sure. It's, it's because you have so much passion for it, you have to be aware of what you love, because you, and you know, and then if they want to gravitate towards it, I'm always here if they ever want to, but I do my best to not, and I make a, I make a rule about basketball, because it's always on TV, I see, look, none of these games are that important. We can always do anything else, but they know like daddy works around basketball and, you know, I'm involved and that's kind of stuff at a high level, so they love that I'm doing it, but they also know they don't have to play, right? You don't have to do any of that stuff, you know? So this, this last question I'll ask before, before we wrap here, Graham, is on relationships. And, and the reason I, I think it's such an interesting lens to look at values through is because I find for myself, there are only a handful of relationships that I've built in life that I feel the kind of call it trust, encourage to have arguments with openly, to be really frustrated, confused, upset, and to let that kind of, for lack of better term, hang out and see what happens and to be present in those feelings. And I wonder whether it's been, to the training that you've had, you know, with your wife, whether it's in the athletes that you work with, what have you learned about building those kind of relationships that you think translates kind of universally into how we, how we develop that kind of intimacy in the relationships that we need to to live that sense of alignment in our life. Yeah. I mean, what comes to me is always authenticity in being genuine, you know, when, and being authentic is scary, right? Because that means you're being really who you are and being really who you are means you might get rejected. And so that, and that's, you're like, if I get rejected being who I am really who I am, what then? But I've noticed with athletes, if you come into that vulnerable space or in relationships and you come into that space and your authentic and genuine, you're opening, you're opening up for a connection. And it doesn't mean the other person's going to be authentic and genuine, right? But it means that you're, you're presenting that space to them. And so to me, that's the start of a connection with someone is that willingness to be authentic and genuine. And I try to live in that space as best as I can, you know? And I'm not saying it's always easy, right? Because it does take courage, right? It's scary. Even with my wife, you've been friends for 25 years, you know, that you're like introducing all of yourself is still scary. You know, like it is, but then as you do that, the most amazing thing happens. People, you open up more. And so there, there is a lot of power to truth, you know, to living and truth as much as you can, as much as you're aware of that really does set you free. It really is true in that sense. And then if you're looking for a connection with someone and you can't be authentic and genuine, it's not the right person anyway, you know what I mean? Like you may as well go try it out because the more you do that, you're going to find who really wants to connect with you and who's feeling that because if you're not authentic and genuine, you're, you're cheating yourself anyway, you know? It's like you're cutting off your own legs. So it's, I mean, a lot of this just comes back to, oh my God, I got to feel vulnerable and do this. You're all, yep, that's kind of the deal. But the cool thing with the vulnerability is that passes and does turn into feeling good. We're not saying you got to feel uncomfortable all the time. Once you go into that a little bit, you go, oh, turns out it wasn't so bad. Turns out I'm actually okay. And then you start to, you know what I mean? Feel a little better. I was going to ask to to finish up. If you had to choose one core value, what would it be? And maybe I'll make this excluding vulnerability because we've talked through it so much. And I hear, I hear how core and center that is to you. But is there another one that that feels just as strong or really aligned for you? I would say being authentic. I would say being genuinely authentic is where it's at and living in that space and living in that world. And that's being authentic to your heart, right? That's being authentic to what you're supposed to do and going for it. You know, I think because I think being authentic is where it's at. And that's where everyone connects with. No matter who you are if you're authentic, you're cool. Like no matter what. Like if you see someone genuinely authentic, you're like that person's cool. And it doesn't matter what they're doing. Like wow, that's cool though. Like they're cool. And you want to be around that, you know? So that value is a strong one. I love that. Where can people go if they want to connect with you online? Yeah. Check out music wise. I'm streaming on Graham the Guide. So all streaming platforms. I got a website Grahambetterard.com. You can email me. I'll always respond. And then my two companies are trained to mind.com and maxconscious.com. So that's where I have all my programs and my courses and all that. But definitely reach out to me on Instagram. It's Graham the Guide. I got a LinkedIn account. You can find me. You know, you can find me. No problem. Graham, this has been incredible. I guys listening. I cannot. Hopefully you heard this and I'm sure you did through the conversation. I cannot recommend just diving into Graham's world as deep as you possibly can. If nothing else, because one of the things that just radiates from everything Graham puts out is that there is a way to live an alignment with our values that is that is rewarding, that is challenging and worthwhile on the other side. And he lives it every day. So that go check out Graham. And Graham, thank you so much for being on the show, man. This has been incredible. Come on, man. Josh, let's do it again. That was a, you know, that's fun when like 50 minutes go aside. It feels like a minute, you know what I mean? Like that's my experience working with you. It's incredible. So great job, man. That's great. [BLANK_AUDIO]